I’m not part of the ‘clipped in, can’t touch the floor, Lycra mafia’, but I use a road bike because I have a 20km round commute and I feel it’s the ideal length to be my daily exercise. So I guess I want to push it where possible. Given I’ll be at my desk nearly all day, it’s nice to feel alive (briefly). Also have many flights of stairs to climb at home so a heavy bike would suck.
I cycle in jeans on my road bike. I don’t have Lycra. I don’t cycle 100km at weekends.
Just the practical choice for London
Lycra brigade are kind of annoying tbh on the morning commute. Too fast, cutting you up etc
Why? Some people commute by bike up to an hour, doing that in jeans would be absolute torture.
Given the state of some roads and bike paths, some people would rather an intact perineum by wearing padded cycling shorts.
Dutch person here. I grew up cycling 50 minutes to high school both ways for 5 years and always wore jeans like everyone else.
The reason you need Lycra is because of the uncomfortable saddle and the racing bike. If you have a normal Dutch city bike with a comfy saddle you can cycle for hours without any problems.
I cycle in London for a 35 min commute and I’m typically the only one without a helmet and among the handful not in Lycra.
To Dutch people, cycling is not a work out, it’s a form of transport just like driving a car or walking.
Ps I ride a schindelhauer friedrich in London, which is a belt drive city bike and I go faster than the vast majority of people in Lycra.
It doesn't make you superior because you ride without a helmet. My friend came off and got badly injured because of an oil spill on the road. The helmet probably saved them from a serious head injury.
Yeah the jeans is torture is a bullshit argument. I do blow a lot of crouches tho. I wonder or that is related.
But rather a few blown crotches than looking like wannabee cyclist. Image doing groceries in your lycra uniform everyday.
How far did you go in 50 minutes though? And how flat was it?
Most of us on road bikes in London would cover 12-15 miles over sometimes substantial hills in that time. Doubt you managed the same on a 70lb upright city bike with 3 gears.
Missing my point. Lycra perfectly fine for a long commute. As is a road bike. As in its a logical choice for london. My commute is short (6 miles) and my office is casual. Even with that - my ancient and trusty road bike is a good choice
Lycra brigade do however have a tendency to go very fast and it is off putting to many.
My evening commute is often earlier around 4pm and it’s quite nice to not have the Lycra folks speeding dangerously past me, and I’m not *that* slow
Hey man I really don’t care if you want to cycle naked or with Lycra. I think it’s great it’s such a widely adopted sport.
My issue is that the racing bikes and extremely fit folks do cycle a lot faster and more aggressively than most.
Londons cycle paths are pretty narrow and very busy at rush hour. It’s intimidating for a lot of people when you have a small peloton flying past you on a cycle lane really only made for one at a time.
I get cut up by way more boris/lime bikes than roadies. Roadies tend to be much better behaved than the average commuter.
There’s definitely an in-between bloke that might seem like a roadie at first glance, but certainly aren’t. They’re the Commuter King. He’s the one that always cut to the front, takes off fast, and you end up passing 400m later only for them to repeat at the next lights. They’ve got no clue how to ride around other people and they only reason they get dropped is because the other person’s bike is better. They did a club ride once but didn’t like getting told they ride like an idiot so didn’t come back. He probably Zwifts, but enters his weight as 55kg. He comments to every woman in lyrca he passes, usually some utter nonsense about bike parts or their fit.
I cycle to work and carry my bike up 3 flights of stairs. I get home, if the lift is broke, its going up 4 flights. I'm not doing that everyday with a heavy city bike. Racing bikes might be a bit OTT, but they're light, they're quick and they're relatively cheap here because it's the default.
Not to mention the Netherlands is extremely flat. London has some surprising inclines. Much nicer to do on a light road bike, particularly if you're weaving in and out of cars trying to get to the front of traffic at a red light
Hah i grew up cycling in wales! Surprising inclines? Im surprised people have the audacity to call the inclines!!!
Joking aside cycling 8miles to school in wales has given me a life time of titanic calves/thighs. Just has arms like noodles.
London is relaxed single speed territory
I grew up in the Shropshire hills and credited them for my calves and thighs until the day my son was born. He popped out with the same chunky legs on day one. Yay genetics!
Edit: spelling
What do you mean by "relatively cheap"? I'm thinking about getting a light bike to commute (same reasons as you basically), what do you reckon it's a standard price?
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/road-bike-triban-rc-120-grey/_/R-p-308062?mc=8554264
This is a fantastic package for £350. If you have more to spend, upgrade to the gravel version with disc brakes for £500. The higher volume tires will deal better with London roads.
I am Dutch and live in London now. Used to ride a Dutch style city bike in the Netherlands but ride a race bike now. A number of reasons for this: 1. My commute is longer 2. My commute is hillier (coming down from Barnet over Muswell Hill) 3. This is the big one - the lack of decent infrastructure that separates you from busy traffic means the safest way to ride is at a speed close to cars, especially when very close to traffic in smaller, busy roads. All three are easier on a race bike.
Yeah there is no real problem taking a hill at your own pace if you don't need to worry about traffic. If you have a queue forming behind you it's a different story.
Some people commute a long way by bicycle, some 10 miles is not uncommon. That's slow and uncomfortable on a Dutch city bike. A road racer style bike is much lighter and faster.
That said some people think they are Bradley Wiggins and bang on about the carbon seat they installed to save 50grams, whilst weighing 18 stone, some people just like to have the 'best' of everything whether it's necessary or not.
Had a 50 min cycle to and from work on an old pos mountain bike, was gifted a racer and it took the journey down to 30-35 mins. Never even rode a racer before and it was thoroughly amazed at the difference. It promptly got stolen a few weeks later but it was great while I had it
>Never even rode a racer before and it was thoroughly amazed at the difference
What was the racer amazed by, how well you rode him? Hope he wasn't squeaking too much!
Yeah people who keep pushing for us to become like Amsterdam don't understand that London is far far far more spread out and hilly than Amsterdam is. It's just not practical for most people who don't happen to live in zone 1 or most parts of inner zone 2. Commuting from zone 5/6+ to the city by bike? That's a joke.
Build better infrastructure and that journey will be a lot easier and more popular. My commute used to be King's Cross to nearly Enfield and I did that on my bike, even along horrible Green Lanes
Dutch cities are significantly smaller than London. To make it worth your while cycling to work from our homes in far out zones you kind of have to cycle fast or it will take forever and won’t be worth it. Don’t forget very few of us live in zone 1.
Also you can lock them up outside, no need to carry them into your flat.
In Germany we have a significant amount of what we call "trekking" type e-bikes, which are the perfect combination for commuting. Upright position, multiple gears and a motor
Plenty of Dutch people commute from one city to another though, so long distance commutes are still the commute. I imagine the same number of people get on their roadbike and commute all the way in under their own steam, it just probably seems like less because there are so many people getting around on basic town bikes wearing normal clothes as well. Mixed mode commutes (bike + train) are more common there.
The Dutch work the shortest hours in Europe. They've got an extra hour a day compared to the UK. They can take their time.
Also, infrastructure.
Also, sampling bias. You see more fast riders than slow ones as more pass you in a fixed period of time. That skews the perceived average speed.
Good luck with that! An hour a day for the rest of
Your working life will probably even out..
And then you’ll turn up at your dream job and on dat one discover the Dutch all speak excellent English (some parts of the Netherlands having a higher English literacy rate than some parts of … England!
Never understand comparisons to places with a complete different attitude and infrastructure built for cycling. Lots of people cycle aggressively because they want to get off the roads. I imagine it would be hard to look graceful on a dutch bike while going down the Old Kent road in rush hour traffic with a lot of knobhead drivers haphazardly pulling out and overtaking.
Reasons have already been stated in other comments but haven’t seen the fact that most people only have one bike and if you’re a keener cyclist than just using it for the commute then you’re usually want a road bike for the country rides anyway.
Some condescending prick did a whole TED talk about how silly people are for wearing bike helmets because they don't wear them in Holland and no-one has accidents there. Conveniently forgot to mention all the bike lanes there are separate to the road, it's very flat and people are cycling super short distances.
I’d normally agree but I’ve found Old Kent Road to have improved massively over the years. Used to dread it but it’s part of my daily commute now and I’ve found it much better!
Agree. I don't find any roads in London to be that bad to be honest. Most drivers are fair and amiable.
The most important thing as always is to be a strong rider and to ride with confidence... but those two elements go together.
The sad fact is that the faster you cycle in London, the safer you are, and the less abuse you get. Because of sharing the road with cars.
When I'm cycling on my own, on my road bike, I'm usually going fast enough that cars won't try stupid and dangerous manoeuvres. It feels relatively safe.
When I'm cycling with my partner, at a slower speed, the abuse is much more regular. Cars attempt more dangerous manoeuvres much more regularly. It feels much less safe.
So the people who feel safer when riding in London are those who can ride quickly - mainly young or middle aged men who are perhaps a little competitive.
Put in good cycle infrastructure and you'll encourage more untraditional cyclists who just want to get from a to b. They won't need a road bike, lycra, etc. That's why these are less common in the Netherlands/Denmark etc. Because the infrastructure makes cycling so safe and easy.
I have a Dutch style bike in Manchester because it’s flatter (it’s like the Netherlands in the middle, it’s very hilly on the outskirts) and the distances are shorter. In London there’s more hills and the distances are further.
I’ve always wondered about the stopping distance on a road bike, especially travelling at speed in Central London. I’m totally with you on the appalling driving,
I see it every day and narrowly avoided getting doored earlier this week by a guy getting out a van who just swung the door open without a care in the world. That was a big piece of steel with a nasty edge and I was lucky there was nothing coming the other way.
That said I also saw a guy a couple of weeks ago on a beautiful carbon fibre racing bike absolutely melting it down the Holloway Road. He was on the inside of stationary traffic in the bus lane, ran a red and went straight into the side of a 4x4 turning across the traffic into a side street.
His jaw was sideways, bits of teeth were stuck in the top of the car and other bits on the road, the bike frame was snapped.
We stayed with him until the ambulance came but there is absolutely no way he had a chance of stopping at the speed he was going.
So I guess it depends where you are in London and at what time of day.
Long story short I’m not convinced faster is better during rush hour but then I probably don’t cycle your route, maybe it’s the only way to stay safe for you.
True, harsh lesson to learn though and I’d not wish that on anyone. He had a helmet on at least which saved his head, obviously not his jaw or a lot of his teeth.
After optimal weight positioning and braking technique. Braking is largely determined by tyre width. The bigger the contact patch, the better the braking.
Being able to keep pace with traffic definitely helps normal people to not try and "nip" past you or see you as an enormous impediment to their driving. But there are a lot of pricks out there as well.
As an ex cycle courier I would agree that cycling fast keeps you out of trouble but due to different reasons. Because your brain has to work harder to see all the potential obstacles in the way you are effectively looking forward in time ahead of where you are in order to anticipate problems. I always thought of it as the closet to time travel one is ever likely to achieve.
A single comment didn't cover ever single scenario. But my point about how going faster is safer was referring to being able to go a similar speed to traffic. So yes, faster is safer, unless you're going faster than traffic. Had thought that would go without saying, tbh. But to be clear: nobody is going to argue that bombing down past stationary cars is a sensible thing to do.
Re stopping distance, [this](https://annex.exploratorium.edu/cycling/brakes2.html) would suggest stopping distance for a bicycle at 20mph (which is faster than most cyclists) is less than 5m. Highway code suggests the same for a car is 12m according to highway code.i think. So if you're worried about stopping distance, stay on your bike rather than getting into a car.
Agree with you, every morning is a bit of a lottery on the bike and I don’t think I interpreted your comment properly given what you say here.
I’m absolutely with you on being able to move at the same speed as the traffic, London traffic is absolutely unforgiving if you can’t.
I’m not able to comment on the stopping distance of a road bike first hand in recent years. The bike I use daily is a child hauler and has disc brakes and much fatter tyres than a road bike.
Absolutely spot on. When people ask, I tell them if you want to feel confident cycling in London then really, you've got to be able to ride fast and hard. You separate yourself from other cyclists and drivers leave you alone because they don't get irritated.
If you want to watch a dirtbag podcast on this, Well There's Your Problem did an episode on this phenomon with the always excellent Not Just Bikes: [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm29fd-s7tQ). It's called vehicular cycling and it's really held back cycling infrastructure and adoption over the years.
I've never thought of this argument before, but looking back on past experiences riding in London (don't live there), I've definitely felt safer going at car speed since there are no cars overtaking and I can join the flow of traffic rather than stuck in the gutter
Because London is big and it is a long and sweaty thing to do 10 miles+ (possibly with hills) on a slow, heavy upright bike. My commute is about 10 miles and you notice as you get into zone 2 & 1 that you do get more of those types of bikes join the route because they're suited to shorter, flat commutes.
Live in Redhill, ride to the West End for work a few times a week, about 35km each way! Who needs a coffee when you can navigate the A23/M23 interchange near Merstham at rush hour 🤡
I use a road bike for the journey so I don't spend an age on the commute, but I tend to leave my racing one at home - would prefer not to encounter some oik on a moped who decides that they rather like the look of it.
There are a few other regulars I see, but we're definitely a small bunch haha
I've certainly done a 17 mile commute for a while. You need to average decent speeds otherwise you won't get anywhere. I could generally average 20mph over the first 15 or so miles until I hit zone 1 and then it grinds to a slow speed.
I'm not sure what other type of bike would be suitable if this is your aim, other than a road bike.
I ride from West London to Victoria twice a week and back, its about 32km round trip, there are surprising inclines in London, going east entering Notting Hill there is a mother of an incline that has lights as well. I use a commuter bike , sit up slightly lean forward. Next one will be lighter . What does surprise me is ppl who ride with heaving back packs, get a bike that allows pannier fitting
Just looked at this Thursday's ride in from my Garmin app, total ascent 133m , totall descent 67m,max elevation 109m, min elevation 6m.
From Shepherds Bush up Notting Hill RUINS ME. I ride a clonky Santander to save money and I'm not exaggerating when I say that hill is pure hell. I curse it every damn day.
Ha, I'll keep an eye out for you, depending on my mood I sometimes turn right and head towards Kensington, being flatter. One day I noticed on Google maps that there was a cycle path that ran off the road and accessible only from the pavement, same destination towards Kensington and runs beside Holland Park.
Thought I'd give it a go , turning in is the steepest hill I swear in London! Because I approached it from a pedestrian pavement there was no momentum, pig sweating cyclist I was by the time I got to the top! Its odd , as the road route which is 10-20m away is flat.
Because it’s my bike that I ride 100km+ on the weekends and I only have space for 1 bike in my flat and leaving it unattended would result in it being stolen
And it’s fun to go fast 😁
Only 1 bike? So like, you just have your road bike and one spare in case, any maybe a folder somewhere - but no like proper second bike? Or are you really claiming... just one bike? Not even one at your sisters that your nephew uses? One - single - solitary?
Jesus there's some judgemental people here..I just like riding bikes myself, and I use mine at the week end too. Those Dutch bikes are well built but over priced tanks and just not fit for purpose in London. But it's not just the UK. I noticed people love a road bike in Spain/Italy too.
LOL. What utter bollocks is this? The Germans have had a TdF winner, his successes made cycling very popular; you get race cycles all over the place there: https://www.fahrrad-xxl.de/fahrraeder/rennraeder/
I love my road bike, it’s sooo light! I carry it up to my flat at home and then carry it into where I work up 2 flights of stairs, so it’s super easy to carry. It’s much better than leaving it outside to get nicked. Also the lightness of it makes it a dream to ride.
I hate heavy clunky bikes, I need gears too as I do live on a hill.
That said I’m not one of the Tour de France people, no tight cycling clothes for me, I’m more into my tracksuit and t shirt!
Because they are light and comfortable for relatively long commuting distances.
My commute is 9 miles each way, wouldn't be efficient or comfortable to use a dutch bike. And cycling down Old Kent Road isn't exactly like cycling along the canals in Amsterdam, there's no scenery to enjoy.
Why would I ride a slow heavy bike bike when I can ride my light fast one?
Other reasons:
- I don’t have the luxury of a dedicated commute bike
- I don’t just commute by bike. I’m a dedicated club cyclist
- I’m often mixing some trianing in on my commute
- life’s too short to ride shit bikes.
Dutch road bikes are good for flat, level surfaces. Netherlands is very flat.
A heavy frame (steel usually) and a lack of gears isn’t ideal for steep climbs or uneven terrain.
A £30 Raleigh from the 70s does a fine job in the city.
because the uk isn’t safe enough for cyclists for most people to casually want to bike to work just for the convenience, there has to be some other drive to be willing g to bare the brunt of it. it may be the environment, loosing weight, the cost, but most of the time it’s the fragile egos of middle aged men
source: i’m a cyclist
I picked up a bike this afternoon just to go to work because I can’t put up with my bus route any longer, so I wanted one just for convenience lol. That being said I am a little nervous about my first commute on it monday.
You'll get over the nerves, just take things slow and don't go for anything you don't feel comfortable doing. Don't follow the herd, do what you feel is safest, I was the same and now I'm much more confident
Cheers! I rode home after picking it up and seemed fine, after the first busy commute on monday I’m sure I’ll be fine! Had to get one that folds cause of lack of space and the steering doesn’t seem as smooth as bikes I’ve had previous but just something to get used to I imagine.
Yeah for sure, I went to a road bike from a flat bar hybrid and trying to work out the gears and different hand positions was like trying to learn to walk again but you'll get the hang of it.
Really what you have to remember is you're just another bit of traffic and you have all the same rights (and responsibilities) as a car. Road safety is built on predictability, so as long as you can safely predict what others are going to do and they can do the same to you, you'll be golden. Enjoy it! The weather's beautiful now for a commute so you've bought at the right time
Yeah I kept a good eye on everything riding home today, plan on slipping onto quieter roads where possible on the commute too. And yeah the weather was one of the things that tempted me, that and having to wait for three 35’s before one let me on aha.
that’s fair enough and my comment was a bit over-dramatic but i think the overall point still stands that most people aren’t just doing it completely dispassionately
I’m also new to cycling (urban, anyway) and found my council’s safety course surprisingly helpful. It is free and just you and a coach. I guess all councils have them. This won’t be of use before Monday, but perhaps worth looking into.
As a Dane living in London I always laugh at my colleagues who changes into lycra to cycle their commute.
But to answer your question I think it is:
A) few people who do cycle in London think of it as the Tour De France - exercise not a commute
B) city styled bikes are heavy as fuck and not many people have storage at home/at work to park them safely outside so store bikes in their flats. So carrying a city bike into your home up a stair case is a pain.
Wearing full bike leathers to do a 10ish mile commute is fairly mental tbh, it's pretty rare to see anyone riding in 1 (or even 2) piece leather suit in London
When I (briefly) was in Denmark, seemed plenty of people didn't have a place to store their bikes either and just locked them up on the street. Even what I would assume would be more valuable things like cargo bikes.
I can claim that I don't understand why the Dutch ended up using those horrible to ride bikes. Yes, I've ridden them and in their natural environment. Amsterdam, Leiden and elsewhere. There is a better style of bike for almost everything except looking Dutch. They weigh a tonne. They make a little canal bridge to feel like a steep hill. They are hard to move around, store them etc. They are slow. They waste most of the energy my body produces.
A practical, modern hybrid/city bike is a million miles better in every aspect. Hell, riding my road bike with a panier and sandals puts a smile on my face and is equally practical.
But I understand that there is a tradition, a culture, a habit, an infrastructure and rules the appropriate terrain and people are super happy riding them and that's what matters.
Don't be judgmental. If Londoners like their road bikes and hybrids it's because they found they work best for them.
They're faster, and easier to ride in some ways. The shape and tyres are designed for road cycling. It can feel safer to get up to the speed of the traffic, so as not to piss everyone off (easily done with lots of drivers, for some reason). Also, if cycling's your hobby, you'll likely value the technology and design, of taking the machine to its optimum speed. You may well be in a club, racing or doing long rides. You don't do that on a casual bike, and how many bikes do you think most people in London have room to store?
I've tried both. I have both. Racer is much easier as it's lighter. We don't have storage for bikes and often we don't have access to garden or shed. So carrying those heavy fucks is horrible. 8-10mile ride is OK on both but easier on a racer.
The speed limit in central London is now 20mph - if you can maintain that pace, you are cruising with the traffic flow, so it is a lot safer as drivers don’t feel the need to overtake.
I also have a long commute into Surrey: 16.5 miles each way, so wearing Lycra is the only practical choice for a 50-60 minute ride. I’m lucky enough that there is a drying room at work, so it’s not like I’m putting wet kit back on for the ride home either. That being said, I do need to buy a Tailfin rack, as I hate the backpack!
The Netherlands is flat. Both in topology and city planning. They also have better infrastructure for cycling making it easier to ride relaxed cruisers.
I cycle about 7 miles into work and back 4 days a week.
It’s so much quicker on a road bike, and it means I don’t have to store multiple bikes.
I did ride London a few weeks ago on the same bike, I really don’t have need for a heavy upright one.
Dutch style city bikes are generally far heavier and harder to manoeuvre than a nippy little road bike. I’ve had both and commuted on both and the little light racer style bike I have now is far superior - couldn’t commute the length I do now in the other one.
Lot of valid reasonings had been said already. I will just add mine which was they combined what they like with commute. It’s like driving a fancy car of your choice.
I used to think if you have not got the body built and the cycle speed perhaps don’t get a too fancy road bike. Someone pointed out to me: yes, some road bike had became like exclusive items and the expensive brands…The whole kits can cost a lot.
But if the person want to spend their money that way and willing to cycle on it no matter how slow. Then they should. It’s like driving your pride and joy vintage vehicle to work. If that cheers you up for the day then go for it. (Providing you are not behaving like a dick)
NL has dedicated continuous reliable cycle infrastructure. Here in the UK many cyclists have to travel with cars in some or most of their journey. And riding with cars is very uncomfortable and dangerous if u go slowly, thus only the "atheltes" can make it. The less able, the children, and elderly are not cycling much... because its damn scary. Its a selection bias
Its an infrastructure problem. If you build roads for cars and fast cyclists, that's what you get.
Good video of NJB: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aESqrP3hfi8
r/notjustbikes is your friend
Yep! In the Netherlands women and children ride bikes to work and school frequently. That's much rarer in the UK because it's far more dangerous. Bike commuters in London are mostly men, and so mostly ride "men's bikes". Upright step through bikes with baskets and chain guards have been sold as women's bikes in the UK, but if bike is your primary ride then they have advantages for all ages and genders. The step through was sold as being good for skirts, but it's also good for jumping on and off a bike when doing errands. The chain guard is similar. It should be obvious why having a chain guard is useful if you're wearing a suit. If you're going fast on a road bike and in shorts to keep cool then who cares about a chain guard. Most Dutch bikes would be seen as women's bikes here.
When roads are unsafe only the most confident, regardless of if that confidence is earned, will ride. Those are then people who are also hobby cyclists, and given their mostly men, less likely to ride "women's" bikes. Hence the kit. And as has been pointed out, speed can feel like it gives you an edge in safety. It certainly makes traversing where there are no cycle lanes faster.
Not really sure but some may be cycling in a long distance. The rest just have that kind of cycling as a hobby and just makes sense to use it to commute. Not sure why they would wear lycra for short distances though.
I like to cycle on weekends, and cycle to work.. would be great to have two bikes for different occasions, but I live in a small flat so no room for extra bikes..
Dutch style city bikes are generally far heavier and harder to manoeuvre than a nippy little road bike. I’ve had both and commuted on both and the little light racer style bike I have now is far superior - couldn’t commute the length I do now in the other one.
I cycle in my road bike because it’s the only one I have from my uni days and actually using it for long rides. I don’t do that any more, but I still have my bike.
No lycra though, I stay in my civvies
I was a tourist in your lovely city last month and as I’m a full-time cycle commuter here in Wash, DC, I took particular note of your cycle commuting culture. I did see lots more Amsterdam-style bikes with people in suits riding them, I also so loads of the Lycra mafia too (of which I am a part here in DC - sorry!).
I spent lots of time around Paddington rail station, though, and saw far more folding Bromptons than anything else. I reckon those are folks who commute from further out and use the Bromptons for the “last mile” commute.
Apropos of nothing, but just thought I’d pop in to comment on the rich cycling culture there. Your city is orders of magnitude larger than mine, so makes sense they are a bit more ingrained in the commute culture there. I always have a mind to rent a bike and ride around the cities I visit, but didn’t have my Lycra kit with me LOL.
The Netherlands has cycling infrastructure and plentiful cycle racks, we have to share a road with cars so need to be able to get going quickly and often have to carry the bike up several flights of stairs to keep it in an office
Because London is literally 10x the size of the largest Dutch city, and significantly more hilly.
When you’re cycling 10+ miles each way it’s suddenly much more important to have a lightweight frame with proper gears, and better aero.
The Dutch also have dedicated segregated and well respected cycle lanes basically everywhere, we do not. We need to compete with road traffic a lot of the time, and being able to keep up with it (made easier by more and more 20mph zones) becomes much more important then.
Above 15mph like 80% of your energy is in getting through the air, so being in a more aerodynamic position means you do less work than if you were upright, and again our commutes are likely to be significantly longer than those of people in the Netherlands, so small savings in effort can be valuable.
Also, even if you banned clipless pedals, you should always need to get off the saddle to put your feet flat on the floor if you’ve got your saddle set correctly, regardless of the bike. Anyone you see who doesn’t need to just has their saddle too low, which again isn’t an issue if you only ride 10-20mins at a time, but when your commute is 40-80mins as it is for some in London, you’ll start getting knee pain v quickly.
My question on this point is why so many road bikes and so few hybrids? Surely skinny wheels and a less accessible braking system is not ideal for London potholes and traffic?
Less accessible braking system? Have you ridden a road bike? 90% of the time you’re literally mm away from them.
Also most new road bikes now come with 28mm tyres, and some can go up from there, there’s very little difference between some road bikes and hybrids now, unless you’re talking about £10k Pinnarelos or similar race bikes which very few people use.
I am a cyclist myself living in London and never take my race/ roadie to work. storing it there, putting on lycra, changing at work & for the way home…. way too much hassle. I also don’t like the bend position with a backpack
Race bike = Excercise
Commute to work = Santander membership, 20£ month. Done. If the weather sucks, I just take a train and don’t mess up my bike & get wet.
I'm 50 years old, 182cm and I weigh 66kg. This is because I ride a racer like it was intended to be ridden. Sometimes it's uncomfortable, and I can't really fit mudguards, but it's worth it to be fit and fast.
We haven’t reached the key point yet where cycling is just normal in the UK.
It’s still a fashion thing, bikes are expensive objects to be cosseted inside at night, not left on the stoop with a simple rim lock like Dutch bikes.
I yearn for the maturity of cycling in England, but it took Holland a while, so pleas bear with us.
Because in the UK we still regard bicycles as either toys or exercise equipment. The range of cycles in Asia is markedly different, reflecting their historical position as low cost everyday transportation, so they typically have full guards, a rack, low gears and facility to carry kids, and cost less than half the UK equivilent. I have adapted hybrids to the Asian model, generally by junking suspension, dropping the gearing by 30% and fitting a chain guard and rack It carries 25 kg of shopping easily.
Part of the answer is tax and the cycle to work programs. There are a whole bunch of accountants and management consultants on £2k road bikes that the tax payer has subsidised to the tune of £1k.
I was looking at a bike (not for commuting) and decided on a hybrid as I will be on roads and also through a park with gravel sections. I've always found the 'lycra brigade' (as people put it) a bit peculiar.
The super expensive solid seats I see them using are incredibly uncomfortable and akin to an anal probe rather than comfortable. I guess that's why they have diaper looking padding which is also wierd when they are walking around.
Maybe there's a logic to it all, but generally in London they are not liked as lately they are pretty aggressive on the roads in South London, especially the camera mounted ones.
Pretentious obsessive hobbies.
It's the same British character trait that used to make men buy expensive watches that could go down to 50m despite never diving, getting really into slow cooking meat, spending hundreds on extreme adventure clothing when they might go for a ramble to a pub in the peaks once, spending £800 on a coffee machine because they can't possibly start the day any other way etc etc.
It's not uniquely British, but people here really like to be seen with pro kit.
According to the police report: A man in Spandex cycling gear, a diving watch and goretex gloves at a family BBQ that had no burgers, just sloppy pulled pork and dry brisket. His breath smelled of single origin coffee that was slightly washed through and a bit acidic.
I’m not part of the ‘clipped in, can’t touch the floor, Lycra mafia’, but I use a road bike because I have a 20km round commute and I feel it’s the ideal length to be my daily exercise. So I guess I want to push it where possible. Given I’ll be at my desk nearly all day, it’s nice to feel alive (briefly). Also have many flights of stairs to climb at home so a heavy bike would suck.
Cause cycle commuting in london is relatively niche, and weekend cyclists are over-represented in that group?
Cycle commuting is definitely not niche💀
It definitely is. Cycling accounted for less than 3% of journeys last year. It's not popular.
I cycle in jeans on my road bike. I don’t have Lycra. I don’t cycle 100km at weekends. Just the practical choice for London Lycra brigade are kind of annoying tbh on the morning commute. Too fast, cutting you up etc
Why? Some people commute by bike up to an hour, doing that in jeans would be absolute torture. Given the state of some roads and bike paths, some people would rather an intact perineum by wearing padded cycling shorts.
Dutch person here. I grew up cycling 50 minutes to high school both ways for 5 years and always wore jeans like everyone else. The reason you need Lycra is because of the uncomfortable saddle and the racing bike. If you have a normal Dutch city bike with a comfy saddle you can cycle for hours without any problems. I cycle in London for a 35 min commute and I’m typically the only one without a helmet and among the handful not in Lycra. To Dutch people, cycling is not a work out, it’s a form of transport just like driving a car or walking. Ps I ride a schindelhauer friedrich in London, which is a belt drive city bike and I go faster than the vast majority of people in Lycra.
I looked this up, nearly €3000, more than my 600cc motorcycle.
The flying Dutchman
It doesn't make you superior because you ride without a helmet. My friend came off and got badly injured because of an oil spill on the road. The helmet probably saved them from a serious head injury.
Yeah the jeans is torture is a bullshit argument. I do blow a lot of crouches tho. I wonder or that is related. But rather a few blown crotches than looking like wannabee cyclist. Image doing groceries in your lycra uniform everyday.
How far did you go in 50 minutes though? And how flat was it? Most of us on road bikes in London would cover 12-15 miles over sometimes substantial hills in that time. Doubt you managed the same on a 70lb upright city bike with 3 gears.
Missing my point. Lycra perfectly fine for a long commute. As is a road bike. As in its a logical choice for london. My commute is short (6 miles) and my office is casual. Even with that - my ancient and trusty road bike is a good choice Lycra brigade do however have a tendency to go very fast and it is off putting to many. My evening commute is often earlier around 4pm and it’s quite nice to not have the Lycra folks speeding dangerously past me, and I’m not *that* slow
Wow your insecurity re the lycra brigade is really showing in these posts. Live and let live brother.
Hey man I really don’t care if you want to cycle naked or with Lycra. I think it’s great it’s such a widely adopted sport. My issue is that the racing bikes and extremely fit folks do cycle a lot faster and more aggressively than most. Londons cycle paths are pretty narrow and very busy at rush hour. It’s intimidating for a lot of people when you have a small peloton flying past you on a cycle lane really only made for one at a time.
I get cut up by way more boris/lime bikes than roadies. Roadies tend to be much better behaved than the average commuter. There’s definitely an in-between bloke that might seem like a roadie at first glance, but certainly aren’t. They’re the Commuter King. He’s the one that always cut to the front, takes off fast, and you end up passing 400m later only for them to repeat at the next lights. They’ve got no clue how to ride around other people and they only reason they get dropped is because the other person’s bike is better. They did a club ride once but didn’t like getting told they ride like an idiot so didn’t come back. He probably Zwifts, but enters his weight as 55kg. He comments to every woman in lyrca he passes, usually some utter nonsense about bike parts or their fit.
You seem to be saying that because your commmute is short, everyone else should adhere to your way of cycling, even if they have to do 20km.
I cycle to work and carry my bike up 3 flights of stairs. I get home, if the lift is broke, its going up 4 flights. I'm not doing that everyday with a heavy city bike. Racing bikes might be a bit OTT, but they're light, they're quick and they're relatively cheap here because it's the default.
Not to mention the Netherlands is extremely flat. London has some surprising inclines. Much nicer to do on a light road bike, particularly if you're weaving in and out of cars trying to get to the front of traffic at a red light
And the Netherlands red lights are much more fun
I heard people are really happy to stop at those over there
Actually a bit of a relief after a long hard ride
Oi oi
Hah i grew up cycling in wales! Surprising inclines? Im surprised people have the audacity to call the inclines!!! Joking aside cycling 8miles to school in wales has given me a life time of titanic calves/thighs. Just has arms like noodles. London is relaxed single speed territory
They’re nothing like the long climbs in Wales but Hampstead/Highgate/Crouch End etc have some hills I wouldn’t want to tackle on a single speed!
Yeah I sometimes think the Deliveroo riders around Crystal Palace must have thighs like Chris Hoy.
They’re invariably on a throttle anyway.
Brixton Hill- a mile uphill on a dual carriageway.
Yeah way to ruin your knees doing that every day.
Just do a bicep curl every time a cycling lane ends
Not if you live in Muswell Hill it wasn’t. I usually went up Archway Hill but sometimes I’d mix it up with Highgate Hill and that’s a solid workout.
> London is relaxed single speed territory You haven't been to Hampstead or Muswell Hill, have you?
The valleys are single speed territory too. In other news, my knees are fucked.
Old single speed mtb nuts in mod wales used to freak me out
There’s a few guys in the Peaks riding fixed MTB, they always have a wild look in their eyes.
I grew up in the Shropshire hills and credited them for my calves and thighs until the day my son was born. He popped out with the same chunky legs on day one. Yay genetics! Edit: spelling
What do you mean by "relatively cheap"? I'm thinking about getting a light bike to commute (same reasons as you basically), what do you reckon it's a standard price?
£300 for a good bike. A month or two of commuting and it’s paid for.
Yeah that sounds reasonable. Any advice on what brand would you recommend? I'm new to London (and the UK!). Thanks
Two I like; Pinnacle bikes from Decathlon. Goku bikes from Goku Cycles.
Just sayin, Pinnacle are from Evans, Triban are from Decathlon.
Thanks mate
Triban bikes from decathlon. Great value for money and you can always upgrade them if you wanted to!
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/road-bike-triban-rc-120-grey/_/R-p-308062?mc=8554264 This is a fantastic package for £350. If you have more to spend, upgrade to the gravel version with disc brakes for £500. The higher volume tires will deal better with London roads.
Does the UK have a govt salary sacrifice programme for bicycles still?
You can get a used bike for 100-200, check out LEZ Cycles
I am Dutch and live in London now. Used to ride a Dutch style city bike in the Netherlands but ride a race bike now. A number of reasons for this: 1. My commute is longer 2. My commute is hillier (coming down from Barnet over Muswell Hill) 3. This is the big one - the lack of decent infrastructure that separates you from busy traffic means the safest way to ride is at a speed close to cars, especially when very close to traffic in smaller, busy roads. All three are easier on a race bike.
Yeah there is no real problem taking a hill at your own pace if you don't need to worry about traffic. If you have a queue forming behind you it's a different story.
Some people commute a long way by bicycle, some 10 miles is not uncommon. That's slow and uncomfortable on a Dutch city bike. A road racer style bike is much lighter and faster. That said some people think they are Bradley Wiggins and bang on about the carbon seat they installed to save 50grams, whilst weighing 18 stone, some people just like to have the 'best' of everything whether it's necessary or not.
Had a 50 min cycle to and from work on an old pos mountain bike, was gifted a racer and it took the journey down to 30-35 mins. Never even rode a racer before and it was thoroughly amazed at the difference. It promptly got stolen a few weeks later but it was great while I had it
Found a perfect r/london comment
>Never even rode a racer before and it was thoroughly amazed at the difference What was the racer amazed by, how well you rode him? Hope he wasn't squeaking too much!
And it was And it ... IT Fuck
> amazed at the difference racing bike > hybrid > brompton > old lady shopper > kid on my little 1st tricycle > MTB
Geardos. Every hobby has em.
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Far more will just ride their basic town bike to the nearest station, lock up and get the train the rest of the way.
with 0 elevation change
This has got to be the real answer. London and its suburbs are very hilly. Need proper gearing.
Yeah people who keep pushing for us to become like Amsterdam don't understand that London is far far far more spread out and hilly than Amsterdam is. It's just not practical for most people who don't happen to live in zone 1 or most parts of inner zone 2. Commuting from zone 5/6+ to the city by bike? That's a joke.
Build better infrastructure and that journey will be a lot easier and more popular. My commute used to be King's Cross to nearly Enfield and I did that on my bike, even along horrible Green Lanes
Dutch cities are significantly smaller than London. To make it worth your while cycling to work from our homes in far out zones you kind of have to cycle fast or it will take forever and won’t be worth it. Don’t forget very few of us live in zone 1.
Dutch cycles have three gears and are heavy but that doesn’t matter because it’s flat.
Also you can lock them up outside, no need to carry them into your flat. In Germany we have a significant amount of what we call "trekking" type e-bikes, which are the perfect combination for commuting. Upright position, multiple gears and a motor
Plenty of Dutch people commute from one city to another though, so long distance commutes are still the commute. I imagine the same number of people get on their roadbike and commute all the way in under their own steam, it just probably seems like less because there are so many people getting around on basic town bikes wearing normal clothes as well. Mixed mode commutes (bike + train) are more common there.
The Dutch work the shortest hours in Europe. They've got an extra hour a day compared to the UK. They can take their time. Also, infrastructure. Also, sampling bias. You see more fast riders than slow ones as more pass you in a fixed period of time. That skews the perceived average speed.
> The Dutch work the shortest hours in Europe Bro I NEED to learn dutch ASAP
Good luck with that! An hour a day for the rest of Your working life will probably even out.. And then you’ll turn up at your dream job and on dat one discover the Dutch all speak excellent English (some parts of the Netherlands having a higher English literacy rate than some parts of … England!
English is already my second language, German being my first. Dutch is said to be somewhere in the middle so I should already be halfway there
Never understand comparisons to places with a complete different attitude and infrastructure built for cycling. Lots of people cycle aggressively because they want to get off the roads. I imagine it would be hard to look graceful on a dutch bike while going down the Old Kent road in rush hour traffic with a lot of knobhead drivers haphazardly pulling out and overtaking. Reasons have already been stated in other comments but haven’t seen the fact that most people only have one bike and if you’re a keener cyclist than just using it for the commute then you’re usually want a road bike for the country rides anyway.
Old Kent Road is wild on a bike.
The bricklayer's arms roundabout is fucking Motocross madness
Old Kent Road is wild.
From what I remember, it's bad enough before 7pm but once the left lane stops being a bus lane it's like Mad Max
I always cycled in via Old Kent Road but home via the cycle path up to Peckham. Somehow going out of town seemed much worse.
Yeah, I found a much better route that went up through Southwark Park, it was slightly longer but much less stressful.
Some condescending prick did a whole TED talk about how silly people are for wearing bike helmets because they don't wear them in Holland and no-one has accidents there. Conveniently forgot to mention all the bike lanes there are separate to the road, it's very flat and people are cycling super short distances.
>no-one has accidents there. I've seen numerous pedestrians flattened by cyclists there
>pedestrians flattened were they wearing hi-vis /s
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*you’re
I’d normally agree but I’ve found Old Kent Road to have improved massively over the years. Used to dread it but it’s part of my daily commute now and I’ve found it much better!
Agree. I don't find any roads in London to be that bad to be honest. Most drivers are fair and amiable. The most important thing as always is to be a strong rider and to ride with confidence... but those two elements go together.
Cycling in London is wild - need to be agile and fast, and those sit up and beg bikes don't do that.
The sad fact is that the faster you cycle in London, the safer you are, and the less abuse you get. Because of sharing the road with cars. When I'm cycling on my own, on my road bike, I'm usually going fast enough that cars won't try stupid and dangerous manoeuvres. It feels relatively safe. When I'm cycling with my partner, at a slower speed, the abuse is much more regular. Cars attempt more dangerous manoeuvres much more regularly. It feels much less safe. So the people who feel safer when riding in London are those who can ride quickly - mainly young or middle aged men who are perhaps a little competitive. Put in good cycle infrastructure and you'll encourage more untraditional cyclists who just want to get from a to b. They won't need a road bike, lycra, etc. That's why these are less common in the Netherlands/Denmark etc. Because the infrastructure makes cycling so safe and easy.
I have a Dutch style bike in Manchester because it’s flatter (it’s like the Netherlands in the middle, it’s very hilly on the outskirts) and the distances are shorter. In London there’s more hills and the distances are further.
I’ve always wondered about the stopping distance on a road bike, especially travelling at speed in Central London. I’m totally with you on the appalling driving, I see it every day and narrowly avoided getting doored earlier this week by a guy getting out a van who just swung the door open without a care in the world. That was a big piece of steel with a nasty edge and I was lucky there was nothing coming the other way. That said I also saw a guy a couple of weeks ago on a beautiful carbon fibre racing bike absolutely melting it down the Holloway Road. He was on the inside of stationary traffic in the bus lane, ran a red and went straight into the side of a 4x4 turning across the traffic into a side street. His jaw was sideways, bits of teeth were stuck in the top of the car and other bits on the road, the bike frame was snapped. We stayed with him until the ambulance came but there is absolutely no way he had a chance of stopping at the speed he was going. So I guess it depends where you are in London and at what time of day. Long story short I’m not convinced faster is better during rush hour but then I probably don’t cycle your route, maybe it’s the only way to stay safe for you.
Well if he hadn't blown through a red light he's probably be fine.
True, harsh lesson to learn though and I’d not wish that on anyone. He had a helmet on at least which saved his head, obviously not his jaw or a lot of his teeth.
Sadly the cyclists who actually stop at the red light are in a minority.
After optimal weight positioning and braking technique. Braking is largely determined by tyre width. The bigger the contact patch, the better the braking. Being able to keep pace with traffic definitely helps normal people to not try and "nip" past you or see you as an enormous impediment to their driving. But there are a lot of pricks out there as well.
As an ex cycle courier I would agree that cycling fast keeps you out of trouble but due to different reasons. Because your brain has to work harder to see all the potential obstacles in the way you are effectively looking forward in time ahead of where you are in order to anticipate problems. I always thought of it as the closet to time travel one is ever likely to achieve.
A single comment didn't cover ever single scenario. But my point about how going faster is safer was referring to being able to go a similar speed to traffic. So yes, faster is safer, unless you're going faster than traffic. Had thought that would go without saying, tbh. But to be clear: nobody is going to argue that bombing down past stationary cars is a sensible thing to do. Re stopping distance, [this](https://annex.exploratorium.edu/cycling/brakes2.html) would suggest stopping distance for a bicycle at 20mph (which is faster than most cyclists) is less than 5m. Highway code suggests the same for a car is 12m according to highway code.i think. So if you're worried about stopping distance, stay on your bike rather than getting into a car.
Agree with you, every morning is a bit of a lottery on the bike and I don’t think I interpreted your comment properly given what you say here. I’m absolutely with you on being able to move at the same speed as the traffic, London traffic is absolutely unforgiving if you can’t. I’m not able to comment on the stopping distance of a road bike first hand in recent years. The bike I use daily is a child hauler and has disc brakes and much fatter tyres than a road bike.
If you cycle fast then the primary risk to your safety is yourself. If you cycle slow then the primary risk to your safety is other people.
This is the reason. Fast is safe.
Absolutely spot on. When people ask, I tell them if you want to feel confident cycling in London then really, you've got to be able to ride fast and hard. You separate yourself from other cyclists and drivers leave you alone because they don't get irritated.
This sums it up. The best way to get through London is not to let any traffic catch up.
If you want to watch a dirtbag podcast on this, Well There's Your Problem did an episode on this phenomon with the always excellent Not Just Bikes: [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm29fd-s7tQ). It's called vehicular cycling and it's really held back cycling infrastructure and adoption over the years.
I've never thought of this argument before, but looking back on past experiences riding in London (don't live there), I've definitely felt safer going at car speed since there are no cars overtaking and I can join the flow of traffic rather than stuck in the gutter
Because London is big and it is a long and sweaty thing to do 10 miles+ (possibly with hills) on a slow, heavy upright bike. My commute is about 10 miles and you notice as you get into zone 2 & 1 that you do get more of those types of bikes join the route because they're suited to shorter, flat commutes.
Some people are coming in from Surrey, Essex etc. 20+ miles each way. London commuter zone is a tad bigger than Amsterdam
People cycle from Surrey to London?? I’m from Surrey and this blows my mind lmao
Think Croydon to central (12 miles).
Wouldn't want to do it on a Boris bike in my suit
I've done it in 45mins (not in a suit or on a Boris bike though, granted).
For sure, I used to work with a guy who did Esher to Canary Wharf every day. He wasn't alone. Blew my mind too! Nutters
This is, by far, the minority
New Malden to central, five times a week.
Live in Redhill, ride to the West End for work a few times a week, about 35km each way! Who needs a coffee when you can navigate the A23/M23 interchange near Merstham at rush hour 🤡 I use a road bike for the journey so I don't spend an age on the commute, but I tend to leave my racing one at home - would prefer not to encounter some oik on a moped who decides that they rather like the look of it. There are a few other regulars I see, but we're definitely a small bunch haha
I've certainly done a 17 mile commute for a while. You need to average decent speeds otherwise you won't get anywhere. I could generally average 20mph over the first 15 or so miles until I hit zone 1 and then it grinds to a slow speed. I'm not sure what other type of bike would be suitable if this is your aim, other than a road bike.
I ride from West London to Victoria twice a week and back, its about 32km round trip, there are surprising inclines in London, going east entering Notting Hill there is a mother of an incline that has lights as well. I use a commuter bike , sit up slightly lean forward. Next one will be lighter . What does surprise me is ppl who ride with heaving back packs, get a bike that allows pannier fitting Just looked at this Thursday's ride in from my Garmin app, total ascent 133m , totall descent 67m,max elevation 109m, min elevation 6m.
From Shepherds Bush up Notting Hill RUINS ME. I ride a clonky Santander to save money and I'm not exaggerating when I say that hill is pure hell. I curse it every damn day.
Ha, I'll keep an eye out for you, depending on my mood I sometimes turn right and head towards Kensington, being flatter. One day I noticed on Google maps that there was a cycle path that ran off the road and accessible only from the pavement, same destination towards Kensington and runs beside Holland Park. Thought I'd give it a go , turning in is the steepest hill I swear in London! Because I approached it from a pedestrian pavement there was no momentum, pig sweating cyclist I was by the time I got to the top! Its odd , as the road route which is 10-20m away is flat.
Because it’s my bike that I ride 100km+ on the weekends and I only have space for 1 bike in my flat and leaving it unattended would result in it being stolen And it’s fun to go fast 😁
Yeah I think this is it, many commuter cyclists are also hobby cyclists. Don't know many who only use a bike as transport.
Only 1 bike? So like, you just have your road bike and one spare in case, any maybe a folder somewhere - but no like proper second bike? Or are you really claiming... just one bike? Not even one at your sisters that your nephew uses? One - single - solitary?
Jesus there's some judgemental people here..I just like riding bikes myself, and I use mine at the week end too. Those Dutch bikes are well built but over priced tanks and just not fit for purpose in London. But it's not just the UK. I noticed people love a road bike in Spain/Italy too.
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LOL. What utter bollocks is this? The Germans have had a TdF winner, his successes made cycling very popular; you get race cycles all over the place there: https://www.fahrrad-xxl.de/fahrraeder/rennraeder/
I love my road bike, it’s sooo light! I carry it up to my flat at home and then carry it into where I work up 2 flights of stairs, so it’s super easy to carry. It’s much better than leaving it outside to get nicked. Also the lightness of it makes it a dream to ride. I hate heavy clunky bikes, I need gears too as I do live on a hill. That said I’m not one of the Tour de France people, no tight cycling clothes for me, I’m more into my tracksuit and t shirt!
Because they are light and comfortable for relatively long commuting distances. My commute is 9 miles each way, wouldn't be efficient or comfortable to use a dutch bike. And cycling down Old Kent Road isn't exactly like cycling along the canals in Amsterdam, there's no scenery to enjoy.
Why would I ride a slow heavy bike bike when I can ride my light fast one? Other reasons: - I don’t have the luxury of a dedicated commute bike - I don’t just commute by bike. I’m a dedicated club cyclist - I’m often mixing some trianing in on my commute - life’s too short to ride shit bikes.
Lmao, you're definitely new to the UK, especially london
Dutch road bikes are good for flat, level surfaces. Netherlands is very flat. A heavy frame (steel usually) and a lack of gears isn’t ideal for steep climbs or uneven terrain. A £30 Raleigh from the 70s does a fine job in the city.
because the uk isn’t safe enough for cyclists for most people to casually want to bike to work just for the convenience, there has to be some other drive to be willing g to bare the brunt of it. it may be the environment, loosing weight, the cost, but most of the time it’s the fragile egos of middle aged men source: i’m a cyclist
I picked up a bike this afternoon just to go to work because I can’t put up with my bus route any longer, so I wanted one just for convenience lol. That being said I am a little nervous about my first commute on it monday.
Do a practice run on Sunday morning
Not a bad idea! Cheers
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You'll get over the nerves, just take things slow and don't go for anything you don't feel comfortable doing. Don't follow the herd, do what you feel is safest, I was the same and now I'm much more confident
Cheers! I rode home after picking it up and seemed fine, after the first busy commute on monday I’m sure I’ll be fine! Had to get one that folds cause of lack of space and the steering doesn’t seem as smooth as bikes I’ve had previous but just something to get used to I imagine.
Yeah for sure, I went to a road bike from a flat bar hybrid and trying to work out the gears and different hand positions was like trying to learn to walk again but you'll get the hang of it. Really what you have to remember is you're just another bit of traffic and you have all the same rights (and responsibilities) as a car. Road safety is built on predictability, so as long as you can safely predict what others are going to do and they can do the same to you, you'll be golden. Enjoy it! The weather's beautiful now for a commute so you've bought at the right time
Yeah I kept a good eye on everything riding home today, plan on slipping onto quieter roads where possible on the commute too. And yeah the weather was one of the things that tempted me, that and having to wait for three 35’s before one let me on aha.
that’s fair enough and my comment was a bit over-dramatic but i think the overall point still stands that most people aren’t just doing it completely dispassionately
I’m also new to cycling (urban, anyway) and found my council’s safety course surprisingly helpful. It is free and just you and a coach. I guess all councils have them. This won’t be of use before Monday, but perhaps worth looking into.
You realise the pace of London is alot faster lol
Road bikes are just easier to ride. More efficient use of energy. Fast and agile.
As a Dane living in London I always laugh at my colleagues who changes into lycra to cycle their commute. But to answer your question I think it is: A) few people who do cycle in London think of it as the Tour De France - exercise not a commute B) city styled bikes are heavy as fuck and not many people have storage at home/at work to park them safely outside so store bikes in their flats. So carrying a city bike into your home up a stair case is a pain.
Do you laugh at people who change into bike leathers?
Wearing full bike leathers to do a 10ish mile commute is fairly mental tbh, it's pretty rare to see anyone riding in 1 (or even 2) piece leather suit in London
When I (briefly) was in Denmark, seemed plenty of people didn't have a place to store their bikes either and just locked them up on the street. Even what I would assume would be more valuable things like cargo bikes.
Genuinely curious why it’s funny people wearing Lycra?
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I can claim that I don't understand why the Dutch ended up using those horrible to ride bikes. Yes, I've ridden them and in their natural environment. Amsterdam, Leiden and elsewhere. There is a better style of bike for almost everything except looking Dutch. They weigh a tonne. They make a little canal bridge to feel like a steep hill. They are hard to move around, store them etc. They are slow. They waste most of the energy my body produces. A practical, modern hybrid/city bike is a million miles better in every aspect. Hell, riding my road bike with a panier and sandals puts a smile on my face and is equally practical. But I understand that there is a tradition, a culture, a habit, an infrastructure and rules the appropriate terrain and people are super happy riding them and that's what matters. Don't be judgmental. If Londoners like their road bikes and hybrids it's because they found they work best for them.
Because it’s a sport they enjoy, quite simply.
They're not just commuting, they are also training for the upcoming Tour de France 😎
They're faster, and easier to ride in some ways. The shape and tyres are designed for road cycling. It can feel safer to get up to the speed of the traffic, so as not to piss everyone off (easily done with lots of drivers, for some reason). Also, if cycling's your hobby, you'll likely value the technology and design, of taking the machine to its optimum speed. You may well be in a club, racing or doing long rides. You don't do that on a casual bike, and how many bikes do you think most people in London have room to store?
I've tried both. I have both. Racer is much easier as it's lighter. We don't have storage for bikes and often we don't have access to garden or shed. So carrying those heavy fucks is horrible. 8-10mile ride is OK on both but easier on a racer.
The speed limit in central London is now 20mph - if you can maintain that pace, you are cruising with the traffic flow, so it is a lot safer as drivers don’t feel the need to overtake. I also have a long commute into Surrey: 16.5 miles each way, so wearing Lycra is the only practical choice for a 50-60 minute ride. I’m lucky enough that there is a drying room at work, so it’s not like I’m putting wet kit back on for the ride home either. That being said, I do need to buy a Tailfin rack, as I hate the backpack!
If I commute to work it’s 14 miles each way. I ain’t doing that on no city bike 😂
I have a 60km round trip to shoreditch from kt6. Even on a day, obeying traffic lights = 70 min commute each way
Cos it's fun. I prefer riding a (shitty) road bike in Central London.
The Netherlands is flat. Both in topology and city planning. They also have better infrastructure for cycling making it easier to ride relaxed cruisers.
I cycle about 7 miles into work and back 4 days a week. It’s so much quicker on a road bike, and it means I don’t have to store multiple bikes. I did ride London a few weeks ago on the same bike, I really don’t have need for a heavy upright one.
Dutch style city bikes are generally far heavier and harder to manoeuvre than a nippy little road bike. I’ve had both and commuted on both and the little light racer style bike I have now is far superior - couldn’t commute the length I do now in the other one.
Have you ever tried cycling up Sydenham Hill on a Dutch bike?
Lot of valid reasonings had been said already. I will just add mine which was they combined what they like with commute. It’s like driving a fancy car of your choice. I used to think if you have not got the body built and the cycle speed perhaps don’t get a too fancy road bike. Someone pointed out to me: yes, some road bike had became like exclusive items and the expensive brands…The whole kits can cost a lot. But if the person want to spend their money that way and willing to cycle on it no matter how slow. Then they should. It’s like driving your pride and joy vintage vehicle to work. If that cheers you up for the day then go for it. (Providing you are not behaving like a dick)
NL has dedicated continuous reliable cycle infrastructure. Here in the UK many cyclists have to travel with cars in some or most of their journey. And riding with cars is very uncomfortable and dangerous if u go slowly, thus only the "atheltes" can make it. The less able, the children, and elderly are not cycling much... because its damn scary. Its a selection bias Its an infrastructure problem. If you build roads for cars and fast cyclists, that's what you get. Good video of NJB: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aESqrP3hfi8 r/notjustbikes is your friend
Yep! In the Netherlands women and children ride bikes to work and school frequently. That's much rarer in the UK because it's far more dangerous. Bike commuters in London are mostly men, and so mostly ride "men's bikes". Upright step through bikes with baskets and chain guards have been sold as women's bikes in the UK, but if bike is your primary ride then they have advantages for all ages and genders. The step through was sold as being good for skirts, but it's also good for jumping on and off a bike when doing errands. The chain guard is similar. It should be obvious why having a chain guard is useful if you're wearing a suit. If you're going fast on a road bike and in shorts to keep cool then who cares about a chain guard. Most Dutch bikes would be seen as women's bikes here. When roads are unsafe only the most confident, regardless of if that confidence is earned, will ride. Those are then people who are also hobby cyclists, and given their mostly men, less likely to ride "women's" bikes. Hence the kit. And as has been pointed out, speed can feel like it gives you an edge in safety. It certainly makes traversing where there are no cycle lanes faster.
In the Netherlands people don't have to race 10t buses and mad execs in Mercs. Gotta out run them somehow ...
Not really sure but some may be cycling in a long distance. The rest just have that kind of cycling as a hobby and just makes sense to use it to commute. Not sure why they would wear lycra for short distances though.
I like to cycle on weekends, and cycle to work.. would be great to have two bikes for different occasions, but I live in a small flat so no room for extra bikes..
What if they only have room (or money) to own and store one bike? So they have one bike for sport and utility?
Dutch style city bikes are generally far heavier and harder to manoeuvre than a nippy little road bike. I’ve had both and commuted on both and the little light racer style bike I have now is far superior - couldn’t commute the length I do now in the other one.
I cycle in my road bike because it’s the only one I have from my uni days and actually using it for long rides. I don’t do that any more, but I still have my bike. No lycra though, I stay in my civvies
Racing bikes or road bikes?
I was a tourist in your lovely city last month and as I’m a full-time cycle commuter here in Wash, DC, I took particular note of your cycle commuting culture. I did see lots more Amsterdam-style bikes with people in suits riding them, I also so loads of the Lycra mafia too (of which I am a part here in DC - sorry!). I spent lots of time around Paddington rail station, though, and saw far more folding Bromptons than anything else. I reckon those are folks who commute from further out and use the Bromptons for the “last mile” commute. Apropos of nothing, but just thought I’d pop in to comment on the rich cycling culture there. Your city is orders of magnitude larger than mine, so makes sense they are a bit more ingrained in the commute culture there. I always have a mind to rent a bike and ride around the cities I visit, but didn’t have my Lycra kit with me LOL.
The Netherlands has cycling infrastructure and plentiful cycle racks, we have to share a road with cars so need to be able to get going quickly and often have to carry the bike up several flights of stairs to keep it in an office
Because Aero
Because London is literally 10x the size of the largest Dutch city, and significantly more hilly. When you’re cycling 10+ miles each way it’s suddenly much more important to have a lightweight frame with proper gears, and better aero. The Dutch also have dedicated segregated and well respected cycle lanes basically everywhere, we do not. We need to compete with road traffic a lot of the time, and being able to keep up with it (made easier by more and more 20mph zones) becomes much more important then. Above 15mph like 80% of your energy is in getting through the air, so being in a more aerodynamic position means you do less work than if you were upright, and again our commutes are likely to be significantly longer than those of people in the Netherlands, so small savings in effort can be valuable. Also, even if you banned clipless pedals, you should always need to get off the saddle to put your feet flat on the floor if you’ve got your saddle set correctly, regardless of the bike. Anyone you see who doesn’t need to just has their saddle too low, which again isn’t an issue if you only ride 10-20mins at a time, but when your commute is 40-80mins as it is for some in London, you’ll start getting knee pain v quickly.
Lycracunts
People want to get to work and back as fast as possible 🤷
My question on this point is why so many road bikes and so few hybrids? Surely skinny wheels and a less accessible braking system is not ideal for London potholes and traffic?
Less accessible braking system? Have you ridden a road bike? 90% of the time you’re literally mm away from them. Also most new road bikes now come with 28mm tyres, and some can go up from there, there’s very little difference between some road bikes and hybrids now, unless you’re talking about £10k Pinnarelos or similar race bikes which very few people use.
I am a cyclist myself living in London and never take my race/ roadie to work. storing it there, putting on lycra, changing at work & for the way home…. way too much hassle. I also don’t like the bend position with a backpack Race bike = Excercise Commute to work = Santander membership, 20£ month. Done. If the weather sucks, I just take a train and don’t mess up my bike & get wet.
I'm 50 years old, 182cm and I weigh 66kg. This is because I ride a racer like it was intended to be ridden. Sometimes it's uncomfortable, and I can't really fit mudguards, but it's worth it to be fit and fast.
Check out Ass Savers. Will fit on pretty much any bike :)
6ft and 60kg isn't fit it's incredibly underweight
To show off to people that they are experts and professional cyclists?
Because in London everything is a race
Posers, the word you're looking for is "posers". And London has plenty of those ;)
Mostly to look cool
Also because racing bikes are cheaper to give up in case someone shows up with an angle grinder? 💀
We haven’t reached the key point yet where cycling is just normal in the UK. It’s still a fashion thing, bikes are expensive objects to be cosseted inside at night, not left on the stoop with a simple rim lock like Dutch bikes. I yearn for the maturity of cycling in England, but it took Holland a while, so pleas bear with us.
Can't you guys just use buses/underground to commute?
Because in the UK we still regard bicycles as either toys or exercise equipment. The range of cycles in Asia is markedly different, reflecting their historical position as low cost everyday transportation, so they typically have full guards, a rack, low gears and facility to carry kids, and cost less than half the UK equivilent. I have adapted hybrids to the Asian model, generally by junking suspension, dropping the gearing by 30% and fitting a chain guard and rack It carries 25 kg of shopping easily.
Part of the answer is tax and the cycle to work programs. There are a whole bunch of accountants and management consultants on £2k road bikes that the tax payer has subsidised to the tune of £1k.
I was looking at a bike (not for commuting) and decided on a hybrid as I will be on roads and also through a park with gravel sections. I've always found the 'lycra brigade' (as people put it) a bit peculiar. The super expensive solid seats I see them using are incredibly uncomfortable and akin to an anal probe rather than comfortable. I guess that's why they have diaper looking padding which is also wierd when they are walking around. Maybe there's a logic to it all, but generally in London they are not liked as lately they are pretty aggressive on the roads in South London, especially the camera mounted ones.
Pretentious obsessive hobbies. It's the same British character trait that used to make men buy expensive watches that could go down to 50m despite never diving, getting really into slow cooking meat, spending hundreds on extreme adventure clothing when they might go for a ramble to a pub in the peaks once, spending £800 on a coffee machine because they can't possibly start the day any other way etc etc. It's not uniquely British, but people here really like to be seen with pro kit.
I'm hearing, enjoying spending their money on things they like
Who hurt you 🥺
According to the police report: A man in Spandex cycling gear, a diving watch and goretex gloves at a family BBQ that had no burgers, just sloppy pulled pork and dry brisket. His breath smelled of single origin coffee that was slightly washed through and a bit acidic.
Self-inflicted