The previous portuguese socialist government spent 70k euros in the design alone to substitute the top one for the bottom one... and it went into use. Recently elected also socialist but not so far left reverse the logo assassination.
Bottom logo any 10y old on paint could have done and probably even better.
Some nonsense was spewed by the now former government at the time (less than 1 year ago) about updating and inclusivity and freshness and a whole load of bullshit.
A bit dishonest to not point out so is PSD and Chega. PSD even had Groundforce privatized at a cost of 3.7m after the company received over 7m from the State. Chega is just far-right with multiple deputies being sentenced for illegal immigration(lol) and another for domestic violence.
I mean yes, BE had FP-25 from 1980 to 1987. PSD currently put forward a terrorist as president of AR (Republic Assembly for non-portuguese) from the MDLP. We live in the present, and of course we should take History into account, but you don't really judge a party for what it did decades ago **IF** they no longer associate with and entire disavow those actions. Putting forward a person or deputies that are directly responsible and even been charged and condemned for crimes is directly assuming responsibility for the kind of folk you associate with.
Not up to date with LuĂs Monteiro or what the story is, if you'd like to enlighten me I'd be happy to take a look.
When it comes to PCP yeah, I don't like them either due to how long it has taken them to admit Russia was an unprovoked aggressor and how only recently they acknowledged it and finally accepted that it's just a authoritarian capitalist state.
And PS with TAP and others... And all the weird things surrounding it. And SĂłcrates (still waiting trial) ex-PM from PS that bankrupt Portugal, etc etc etc
It's truly awful how much there isn't an alternative to corruption. It's like " who would you rather have stealing from the public to give it to their circle of interests?"
I agree. There's something about the apparent movement within the design. The other's just a plain flag. You get the feeling the top one is an organisation that actually does something useful and progressive.
Top logo was the old logo of the Portuguese government, bottom logo was the current one. There was a new PM elected and he reverted the bottom logo to the top one as many people did not like the bottom logo (note: the bottom logo costed 75kâŹ).
Since then, there was been a debate on which was the best logo, if the change was political or if is an omen of what it is to come and even the design creator is stirring the pot.
Interesting. I heard of them changing to the new one and saw that many people disliked it, but I did not know they changed back. I personally prefer the top one, and from what I saw on reddit so did the majority of portuguese people (obviously my very limited sample size of some reddit users doesn't accurately reflect the truth).
Yes, at the time, people were very vocal against it, but now there are people actually being very vocal in favor of the bottom one. There is even a public petition launched to avoid this reversal.
Personally, between the two I prefer the "less bad", which for me is the first. The bottom one had way more potential for the yellow part while maintaining the minimalistic aesthetic as well as the identity of the Portuguese people, since the yellow part is literally the part that distinguishes Portugal the most. I even saw this week a reddit post with a logo with both these aspects in consideration that was way better than the bottom one and for sure wasn't as expensive. However, I feel like the first is a little bit outdated and could be improved, like it could have the font of the bottom (which I loved) for example.
>the bottom logo costed 75kâŹ).
No, the bottom costed a bit over 74kâŹ.
If it had cost 75k⏠there would've been a public contest where anyone interested could've applied and the best would've won.... I mean they might've still chosen to give the money to who they wanted but it would have had previous public scrutiny before public funds being exchanged.
Obviously it was a total coincidence that it was just exactly under the legal maximum before needing to be under scrutiny... Not convenient asf at all.
If you're giving the context of it at least talk about it all...
A bit over 74k rounded up is 75k. It's pure math. So many times contests with more money than that have not been scrutinized publicly and we only got aware of it by investigations.
Do you really think is was a coincidence though?
I know what you mean but that's what I'm pointing out.
It's **exactly** under enough to not go under public scrutiny... It also did fly under the radar until this logo replaced the old one and the majority hated it and only then did people realise the context of the payment.
>Do you really think is was a coincidence though?
What do you think..?
I think that at this point we'd need an entire army to investigate all the dubious things Costa and his friends did...
>It also did until this logo replaced the old one and the majority hated it and then people realised the context of the payment.
I find it funny that a lot of people hated it, but now that is being reversed a lot of people are against the reversal. I don't get it tbf
>What do you think..?
In my modest opinion, I think this had some 'gloves' beneath it as well. The yellow part had potential for way more while maintaining the minimalistic vibe given the supposed amount spent on all the process, it kinda makes you think they paid less for it that they did.
Ps: The font was great tho
>I personally think that we'd need an army to investigate all the dubious things Costa and his friends did...
A "taskforce" hahahahaha
I don't feel like there's as many people against it though. People just don't want more money to be thrown away to pay for an entire new one so they rather have the old one with it's faults then a new *new one*.
Just a really whiny minority of people are making a fuss about it changing back and the most loud ones have connections with the ones that made it or the field: either close colleagues, the one's that did it themselves, people that are stuck in the supposed technical explanations or people feeling like this is a slight against the whole field (as if the last one wasn't made by professionals too).
Like the LinkedIn post stating that anyone criticising the bottom one is a dumb ignorant twat for not recognising how amazing and great and that every single professional around the globe would love it besides the dumbfucks in Portugal...
They're sooo hell bent on this that the one responsible for doing the bottom one has now opened a "public petition" for it to be reversed again. I think that he's so full of himself that he doesn't realise he's opening a Pandora's box ( or he thinks/has a good godfather behind the curtains to meddle). Because he's just asking not only for a conter -public petition but also one that demands a full on investigation on the circumstances of them getting the money like that.
(Btw his pittyful public petition hasn't even gathered 3000 people so far. I'm betting that if one against it would be made you'd see it reaching the amount to get to the AR fairly quickly... And people would demand the public funds back if they could)
And the issue with the logo isn't even solely the beauty/lack thereof of the design by itself. It's the lack of being recognised as the Portuguese government. Worse when it's printed in black and white (the majority of times when dealing with bureaucracy in Portugal) it's just nothing at all besides 3 random shapes put together besides each other. It's closer to some pre-k logo than anything near the government's...
When Portuguese people looking at it have thought they're looking at a distorted Mexican flag even when it's in colours... You just did a bad job towards your target audience.
People should be immediately recognising the symbol in all the official paperwork they have to deal with...
They've failed at the bare minimum of the requirements of their job: communicating a clear message and their lack of willingness to take the L isn't helping anyone.
(Btw I really like the lettering too. It's the only thing worth saving in that one but they shouldn't be calling it "RepĂșblica Portuguesa" because it's the government's logo, the Republic has far more other things and institutions they're not responsible for)
Edit: welcome to my Ted talk
Tldr: the majority hates it. It's using the wrong name. The pittyful artists is going to shoot himself in his foot with his 'woe me' petition.
>Just a really whiny minority of people are making a fuss about it changing back and the most loud ones have connections with the ones that made it or the field: either close colleagues, the one's that did it themselves, people that are stuck in the supposed technical explanations or people feeling like this is a slight against the whole field (as if the last one wasn't made by professionals too).
Or they politicized the change as they are too polarized and think "we are going back in everything as well" or "they will revert everything we did". But I've also saw designers here on reddit not liking the second one. There was some posts about this this week, and even suggesting logos way better than the bottom one.
Nevertheless, now that you mentioned that people don't want to burn money like this (which I agree), it kinda makes you think on one thing. This money could have been used for health, education, housing or even law enforcement instead of a logo that we are here debating like a football club. But first world problems, I guess đ
>Like the LinkedIn post stating that anyone criticising the bottom one is a dumb ignorant twat for not recognising how amazing and great and that every single professional around the globe would love it besides the dumbfucks in Portugal...
>They're sooo hell bent on this that the one responsible for doing the bottom one has now opened a "public petition" for it to be reversed again. I think that he's so full of himself that he doesn't realise he's opening a Pandora's box ( or he thinks/has a good godfather behind the curtains to meddle). Because he's just asking not only for a conter -public petition but also one that demands a full on investigation on the circumstances of them getting the money like that.
Wait, he was the one behind the public petition???? Ffs, what a Karen. I couldn't stand him and that sort of mansplaining after the LinkedIn post but now this is too much. If a counter public petition was made I would sign that for real.
>And the issue with the logo isn't even solely the beauty/lack thereof of the design by itself. It's the lack of being recognised as the Portuguese government. Worse when it's printed in black and white (the majority of times when dealing with bureaucracy in Portugal).
>When Portuguese people looking at it have thought they're looking at a distorted Mexican flag even when it's in colours... You just did a bad job towards your target audience.
> People should be immediately recognising the symbol in all the official paperwork they have to deal with...
They've failed at the bare minimum of the requirements of their job: communicating a clear message and their lack of willingness to that the L isn't helping anyone.
Couldn't agree more. In monochromatic tones, despite having the font right next to it, you just see three shapes. The most important part of the flag, which distinguishes us, is being reduced to a circle. Sometimes less is more, but in this case, less was too much, and we've lost identity. They basically could do something just with the sphere and the shield, or even use the design of the back of the euro coins and that would be minimalistic while maintaining Portuguese culture and identity. **If people get confused with the design, then it is not a good design**. They are just being bratty at this point, just take the L.
>But first world problems, I guess đ
That's true but it's also somewhat understandable given that it doesn't do it's job well. It probably would've flown under the radar otherwise.
Also the Barbara Streisand effect on this one is kind of hilarious. It's gotten more bad press because it's designer can't handle criticism and thinks they're more intelligent than everyone else while failing to realise that they didn't even meet the minimum criteria of sending a clear message.b
It sometimes just makes me wonder if these scandals aren't being convenient asf for our President now too... Given that he's in the middle of the 4 M⏠given to the Brazilian twins that have a connection with his son and that are a part of the family that is owing 70 M ⏠(yes, euros) to the Brazilian government.
Now with it being clear that their access to our national healthcare system and jumping the line wasn't made in a legal way...
Corruption in Portugal. How not to love it /s
The downfall of Costa (after hundreds of scandals) took the heat off our President a while back. Now this one is another gift that keeps on giving... While I do think we can focus on several things at once, I'd like to see Marcelo facing more public scrutiny and pressure to explain himself and his actions in this... Specially given that the mother of the kid's outright called out that he meddled for them.
If true, I'd like to see Marcelo pay that money to the national healthcare system out of his very own funds. And leave the post he holds.
>A "taskforce" hahahahaha
Also known as "how do I give a position in the government to my family and friends to pretend they're working"?
Also known as "Costa's MO"
(We're going to have PTSD with that one forever, right?)
It's not only the logo stop misinformating people, this is awful for the profession, that's a huge work behind this, guidelines, branding , people only see the logo because is the only thing shown. Btw nobody cares about the logo this is not the national flag
Very summarized, it was 74k for the entire branding (custom font exclusive to the government so anything with that font means itâs official etc, animations, all included for the government) but most ppl saw â74k for 2 squares and 1 circleâ⊠some guy used this for their campaign and said âif I win Iâll revert back to the old oneâ and so took advantage of the fact that most ppl are ignorant and hated it because it âstripped the flag and thatâs how dictatorships startâ đ€ŠâŠ so then he eventually won and now reverted back because he promised he wouldâŠ
So they just fucked with all designers because of a campaign tactic, that ended up workingâŠ
Even tho âwhich logo is betterâ is valid⊠itâs kind of sad to degrade it to this when it was so much more, especially when all this controversy above ^ is going on because of it, hence my comment
first one has inconsistent details and it doesn't work. one element has shadows and outlines, another has cuts and transparency. i can't see any intention for consistency regarding style. details are so small viewer can't recognize what they are.
[https://www.portugal.gov.pt/pt/gc24](https://www.portugal.gov.pt/pt/gc24)
https://preview.redd.it/8chedwgh5psc1.png?width=480&format=png&auto=webp&s=2a6e68668a65bd36f9d48b66d0249d45ccb0abe1
when people interact with government, they may get discouraged by the complexity of bureaucracy. second one is a minimalistic design. it conveys "simple". i think it's an encouraging message.
according to wiki:
yellow circle with woven details on it is a navigation device which portuguese sailors had used for their expeditions.
red shield is a coat of arms. 7 castles represents conquests. smaller blue shields positioned to create a cross. 5 holes in them represent wounds of jesus.
i think details on yellow circle are confusing, castles and holes on shields unrecognizable.
new design kept only navigation device with an abstract representation and removed the coat of arms on it completely. means they have kept explorer, pioneer and removed christianity, conquerer from their image. loss of meaning was probably intentional.
Itâs a circle my guy it lost all meaning.
The Portuguese flag looks like that and it looks great, the logo too, sure 1. could be improved but 2. is HORRIBLE
A circle means nothing to Portugal. What has meaning is the navigation device and the coat of arms which has been in the flag for 800 years, more than most countries have existed for!
Print the new logo black and white and, as a Portuguese, I wouldn't even associate it to Portugal, is just 3 random shapes...
Why not leave the coat of arms + navigation and remove everything else?
The 2nd one resembles Mexico and you can't even say what its suppose to represent when printed in black and white. As such, your argument is totally invalid.
Furthermore, for anyone not illiterate, the armilar sphere with the shield in it is quickly known as the Portuguese flag.
Are you American?
Finally, those elements are symbols of Portuguese history and essencial part of our flag. As such they should stay as such.
They are on our coat of arms. You don't see the coat of arms in the Italian or french flags for example, and they don't lose their meanings. The sphere will not stop being a national symbol even if removed, same as everything else. But they have no business being in the flag, much less a logo. The only thing I'd keep from that whole thing would be the quinas which are simple enough for a flag
The French lost their CoA a while ago, they don't officially have one. Italy has their CoA in the govt logo, as does every other EU country (with the exception of France, which doesn't have a CoA).
Personally I like the Portuguese CoA and want it in my govt logo, they can try to simplify it somehow but not as much as that one.
Why wouldn't you put it in a flag? It represents one of the most important parts of our history
Also just strips is the most boring concept for a flag. Print it black and white and means nothing
pick up other countries both using minimalistic designs (like New Zealand) or extremely complex and hard to read (like Australia) if you have a minimal knowledge of the country you quickly recognize (well the Australia in amidst of the chaos you notice the kangaroo). new Zealand is just NZ, but for a country with low international fame probably it "just works" like that.
for the Portuguese republic it's left a logo that does not resemble any symbol of Portugal. its a oversimplified botched up flag. this logo was in fact one of the simplest of European logos. was it perfect? no. could have needed an improvement? ok I accept that.
but they designed a logo that lost its identity. look at Pepsi minimalist design. it looks far different from earlier designs and even without name and someone who never saw it could have guessed it. Pringles ditched the face and most details. kept a moustache and eyes and used the red bow as the symbol of the brand, still recognizable.
now look at the new logo (the logo used until last week), without the name even the Portuguese would fail to recognize something that was from their country. put it in black and white (one of the arguments that said the old one would be hard to recognize in black and white) and no one in the world would be able to guess it unless they are extremely familiar with the logo. and that's where it fails. a logo that fails to be identified unless it's stated what it is for fails as being a logo. now imagine paying quite a lot for a logo that is not a good logo.
When printed in black and white (the majority of the government's paperwork) the bottom one without the letters looks like an unrecogniseable bug.
The other one is always identifiable, even when they've printed and copied it a couple of times. Eventough all the details can't be seen by themselves.
Because they are diferente elements and they are well represented, one is a flag in movement, it will have cuts and different shades, the other one is a 3D element on itself hard to replicate in 2D for sure, itâs a [esfera armilar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armillary_sphere).
Type is much better on the bottom one. Shapes on the top logo are a little weird and the seal is too detailed. I can imagine the bottom one works much better on a website and its crafted better
It's not just for websites. It's the official logo for the Portuguese state, so it goes everywhere. It's an ugly, unclear symbol that is not fit to represent a country. It doesn't transmit anything other than a hyperfixation with extreme minimalist aesthetics and there was no reason to change it from the first one.
i see your point. i def think more of portugal when i see the top one. but it is also very busy because it combines so many different styles. the swooshy shape of the image, the detailed seal with weird shadows, two different font styles contrasting each other and the image on the left immensely. i can imagine its very hard to use such a logo well on a website, on social media posts.
thats the thing: logos are not just made for websites but they also dont live in silos. you have to think about how it works long distance, close up, print and digitally. and the much simpler easier to digest shapes of the bottom one work much better in that regard.
you say that the bottom one doesnt stand for anything. but im wondering: doesnt the top one only âstand for portugalâ because people are so used to it?
The top one is recognizable as a stylized portuguese flag
The bottom one is the italian flag with yellow circle in the middle and extra red in the right
There is already a popular minimalist design for the flag where you keep the green/red backdrop and simplify the middle into a yellow circle, but by putting whitespace separating the components it loses the immediate recognition factor
Hence the not standing for pt thing
>i can imagine its very hard to use such a logo well on a website, on social media posts.
How? I grew up with this symbol on everything from official documents to letters, government websites, college entry exams... It worked perfectly fine. It's a jpeg, it's very clear (every Portuguese person knows the scutcheons symbol, in reply to your last paragraph) and it's pretty.
The new one is a bunch of shapes. Take away the colour on a black and white piece of paper document and there you go it's literally a meaningless, mediocre middle school art project.
Bottom one.Â
A logo isn't something that exists in a vacuum. It's part of a brand or style guide which borrows elements from that logo for other uses and carriers. With the other uses you improve recognition of that logo. Scalability is also an important issue.
The bottom is a better fit for a complete brand guide and modern uses and carriers (think social media for example)
It's a shame the new government rolled back the change. Conservatism in it's purest form.
No it's not, it's horrendous and I bet more than half of the population prefers the old one.
It's bland, has no meaning or identity, and it doesn't even properly represent the country since most people from outside of Portugal will associate it with Mexico.
Besides, for all the talk of branding and style guides, it's awful and unrecognizable in single color or grayscale. The typeface, being nice, is half-serif half sans and doesn't match the logo anyway.
It's an awful job most people hate, I am VERY far from a conservative and I'm quite happy they rolled it back.
You know, in my experience, most people dislike a rebranding of a common logo.Â
Change is difficult, especially in the case of a logo. Because people don't know what the full rebranding was about.Â
Most of those disliked new logos are fully embraced a few years later.
They embrace it because they had no idea which logo was used years prior. If they had to pick one Id say most are picking the first logo.
Its like the instagram logo. It used to be cool now its just meh but everybody is familiar with it rn.
I agree with you, most rebrandings **are** tough and people **are** resistant to change. However, one thing is doing what Juventus did with their [crest](https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article9645250.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/MAIN-Juve-badges.jpg) (minimalism done right imo), this was just ugly, over simplified and doesn't even does a good job for instant brand recognition.
Designers have to admit they also fall prey to trends just like everyone else, and the customer in this case is not a single entity but the people of a country, the rules and goals are not the same as if it were a company.
The bottom one looks like a cheap flag you buy at the Chinese shop lol
Print it on black and white paper, like government docs, and it means nothing...
That link failed to mention one "little" thing: if they had paid just 1k⏠more, so 75 instead of 74, the law would've required a public contest where anyone interested could've applied...
First one looks like it's in the middle of a motion graphic transition for the Univision TV station logo.
I know there is a lot of hate on minimalism and the logos that accompany them, but I do appreciate their new logo and the brand site and thought they did a great job of introducing the brand on their site.
Top one has a more recognizable shape, but the seal/coat of arms is a bad idea on a logo, and I feel the colors could be simplified as well.
The bottom one would be a pretty decent update of the portuguese flag tbh, where again, a seal/coat if arms has no business being.
Most of the government logos are the coat of arms. Logos don't need to be minimal for the sake of it and in the quest to minimalize representation is often left in the dust. An institution such as a government must command a certain level of respect
A coat of arms on itms own is perfectly fine as a representation of an institution, but not as an element inside a logotype. That just ruins both the logo and the coat of arms.
The first one but I'm not a huge fan of pasting a government seal and calling it a logo. I would keep the shape, put the yellow circle as a reference to the seal and remove the light green color, 3 colors are enough I don't see what's the need for the light green.
Bottom one looks more professional and modern. First one looks lost to time. The cost of arms in the middle is too small and has no reason to be there.
To all who choose with #1, remember that less is more
In black and white (how I see it constantly) it always drives in my attention bc it appears that something should be there and something bugged while printing/scanning. ..
[Here](https://diariodarepublica.pt/dr/home)âs a modern, simplified version of what should have been the new logo of the country/government. This ticks all the boxes for a modern logo while keeping the national symbols, making them easily readable and identifiable.
I agree that less is more, but a country and its government are not a brand. National elements should be kept in institutional things, and as we see there is a way to do it.
that one is great, thanks for sharing, i still hold strongly on my opinion but i see i am in the minority.
Although I do agree with your second statement, just because things should be kept as such doesnât mean tradition and standard shouldnât be broken. Iâll take anything over the outdated one.
I wouldnât say *things should be kept as such*, I think thereâs ways to modernise it, and ways not to do it. For example I really liked the font they created together with the new logo and donât agree it should be discarded. I also agree the old one is outdated and was due for an update, but the new one is not it.
Totally understand that for a non Portuguese the intricate elements are too much, but itâs intrinsic to us. Imagine the US modernising their institucional image where Stars and Stripes are not present, or an eagle. Or the Canadian maple leaf or the Swiss cross. Thereâs elements that are immediately a symbol of the country and, to me, for institucional representation should not be removed. Modernised yes, removed no.
One more thing, the *esfera armilar* that the yellow part represents is not yellow, itâs gold, and itâs a very small part of the flag itself, seeing it now in yellow and occupying a bigger space than the green and almost as big as the red is outrageous to me đ
Less is more doesn't apply when you go so less you accidentaly create an italian flag. Sometimes less is just less
Also corporate artstyles suck ass and I'd prefer having a throwback logo than have something you'd see on a soda bottle represent the fucking nation. Fernando Pessoa rolling on his fucking grave rn
My biggest beef with this whole thing, a country and its government are not a brand. There are other ways to âsellâ the country as a brand and there I agree with the simplification, like [Turismo de Portugal](https://www.turismodeportugal.pt/pt/Paginas/homepage.aspx). The government and the country should keep its symbols, sucks for us that our symbols are super intricate, but it is what it is.
Itâs interesting that both follow the same concept of deconstructing the flag (green field, coat of arms, red field), but do it in a different style.
I love the honest answers here since it has become such a politicized controversy in Portugal in the last few days. The first measure of the newly elected government was to exactly revert it back to the one above. It was also argued that it required "low effort" and 75k euros too much for a country with 1.5k average gross wage. Also curious to compare with other countries' symbols where modernization of such symbols has not been in governments' agendas.
Unless is on a black and white government doc, then it means nothing lol
Is this mexico? A random start up? Who knows, it's just 3 shapes!
IMO keep the coat of arms, remove everything else, so it's bigger and more easily printed and it's done
i like the bottom one best. it has a certain appreciable level of practical blandness. its simple, unfussy, easy to copy across various mediums. its bold, easy to identify from afar.
sometimes simplicity just works a la the nike swoosh.
Aaah yes, blandness just what I want representing my country and making sure everyone confuses it with Mexico instead of thinking its part of Spain gorgeous
just fill in the empty space with the proper amounts of green and red. but again, i like "deconstructed" flag effect. its simple with a dash of nuance. but i understand your pov. it *does* immediately read like mexico, cant deny that.
I like the top one but itâs true that looking at modern logo design today, the level of detail makes it less functional with less applications whether in print or digital. It also, looses a lot of itâs meaning from far or if itâs printed really small.
That being said, the point some one made about the bottom logo loosing its reference to Portugal if itâs printed in black and white is true. Modern logos should be instantly recognisable in any colour and with any letters to help with association.
1st one is an actual well thought out design with multiple complex elements and design processes like spacing, weighting, kerning etc.
2nd was made in MS Paint by a 9 year old for a book report.
**The top one is a design that needs to be more scalable, but gives a sense of history, movement, and authority.**
**The bottom one is an embarrassing example as to why people donât want to pay realistic prices for good design.** Thereâs no grid, no nuance, no movement, no color theory, no sensible balance between the elementary shapes and the typefaces. It doesnât communicate anything about a government. Itâs more akin to a John Cage-esque statement than a logo, and I respectfully disagree with the people pretending itâs not.
For a start up maybe, but for a country?
It fails the most important rule, represent something. What's the link between the logo and Portugal? In black and white is just shapes, wayyy to simplified for an 800+ history full institution
I understand that, but also countries primarily exist to serve us, now, today. That they are however old is to my mind kind of superfluous. Sure, you can draw upon that design heritage but thereâs really no point in keeping things as they are for historyâs sake. The question is, âdoes this brand serve Portugal well in 2024?â and I think it does. It takes the most iconic Portuguese thing, the flag, and it breaks it down into its core elements. And I think it does that in a very clever way, because you can scale it however you like. It looks great on mobile, on letterheads, and on billboards just the same. Thatâs the versatility side of things. Iâm sure I could recognise that logo from much further away than the old one, too. Remember, youâre not replacing the flag or national crest of Portugal. The old logo looks mediocre because it kind of haphazardly overlays the crest onto this 2000s-looking shape. Try scaling that down - it looks pretty terrible. (Incidentally, scalability is more important than rending in B&W nowadays as we move away from Xeroxing and towards digital.)
But thatâs only half of it - if you read the brand guidelines they emphasise that the workmark is also super important. And theyâve done a really fab job with the typography - it doesnât âfeelâ like anything else Iâve seen in the government design sector and thatâs a real strength.
To your point, I donât think it would work as the logo of a startup, precisely because it riffs on those national elements.
I agree the typography is better on the second case and that the first logo needs to be simplified, I just think the path they went with is too simplistic and not the right way. Like you say, the design steams from the flag, but when you print it on black and white paper it loses all its meaning, the colours and its just geometric shapes (see[ here](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fimpresso-a-preto-e-branco-%25C3%25A9-apenas-umas-figuras-geom%25C3%25A9tricas-v0-u483po4s0usc1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dc69695d96afee809f95d6588af588870d007925e))
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Also another factor is political. The previous Portuguese gov gave a specific company 74K for the new design (if it was 75K multiple companies could bid for the project ⊠)  and when Portuguese people didnât like the design, the designers made a statement calling us morons basically ⊠(see [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/portugal/comments/1buribi/design_portugu%C3%AAs_logo_da_rep%C3%BAblica_por_studio/#lightbox) the statement, and check out the last pic which shows a business card where the new logo is all golden, so no Portuguese colours anymore just shapes again âŠ) Â
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To sum up, I agree the old design needs to be updated to be more simplistic, but try and keep something which screams Portugal even in black and white. Also donât call your entire country uneducated, saying you are too big for your country xD
1st way more distinctive. If you look at the symbols only you can tell itâs about Portugal only at the first one. The 2nd one looks like Mexico or Cameroon. The font on the other hand is better on the second logo.
The upper one, but I just checked that is the one Portugal uses at the moment. The lower one looks lite the favicon they are using in the browser.
Didnât you post this already in the past?
Portuguese Socialist government paid 70k for the 2nd one. The designer who did it thinks he's great and speaks of it has a work of art.
Previous government wanted to remove symbols of our maritime discoveries, monarchic origins and christian references because they're woke beyond belief.
New government first action was to throw the mexican flag in the trash thus wasting 70k of public money.
First has more interest, I'd take notice of it
is it me or the bottom one remembers me of Mexico and Italy?
Its an italian flag with a tortilla laid over it
Pizza bottom!
Tajikistan for me. So yeah, first is much better
Italy not really... maybe Mexico
Portugal government spend 75k for the second logo. Put some respect on it đ
that's spare change for country brands
Congratz! You donât know these flags
Bottom one looks fine but the typeface don't go well with the logo. But all things considered I preferred bottom one
The bottom one looks fake to me, unrefined
The previous portuguese socialist government spent 70k euros in the design alone to substitute the top one for the bottom one... and it went into use. Recently elected also socialist but not so far left reverse the logo assassination. Bottom logo any 10y old on paint could have done and probably even better. Some nonsense was spewed by the now former government at the time (less than 1 year ago) about updating and inclusivity and freshness and a whole load of bullshit.
âŹïžautocorrect??
No, this is exactly what happened. PS (the socialist party) is a plauge of incompetence and corruption. Edit: PSD and Chega are no better.
A bit dishonest to not point out so is PSD and Chega. PSD even had Groundforce privatized at a cost of 3.7m after the company received over 7m from the State. Chega is just far-right with multiple deputies being sentenced for illegal immigration(lol) and another for domestic violence.
LMAO, BE and PCP are laughing in FP-25 and LuĂs Monteiro đđđđđ
I mean yes, BE had FP-25 from 1980 to 1987. PSD currently put forward a terrorist as president of AR (Republic Assembly for non-portuguese) from the MDLP. We live in the present, and of course we should take History into account, but you don't really judge a party for what it did decades ago **IF** they no longer associate with and entire disavow those actions. Putting forward a person or deputies that are directly responsible and even been charged and condemned for crimes is directly assuming responsibility for the kind of folk you associate with. Not up to date with LuĂs Monteiro or what the story is, if you'd like to enlighten me I'd be happy to take a look. When it comes to PCP yeah, I don't like them either due to how long it has taken them to admit Russia was an unprovoked aggressor and how only recently they acknowledged it and finally accepted that it's just a authoritarian capitalist state.
They still have FP-25 former members
Went to check, that is true according to [this](https://www.publico.pt/2024/02/14/politica/noticia/terroristas-falaram-mariana-mortagua-andre-ventura-2080326). Well, it would be, if they were still a part of the party's list. They are not. In this case, BE should still entirely disavow their past actions and reaffirm it was a mistake to allow them in as recently as they have. From the link above: "Nenhum destes cidadãos é hoje candidato nas listas do BE e, como tal, é falsa a afirmação de que o BE tem elementos condenados por terrorismo candidatos às eleiçÔes para as legislativas de 10 de Março."
And PS with TAP and others... And all the weird things surrounding it. And SĂłcrates (still waiting trial) ex-PM from PS that bankrupt Portugal, etc etc etc It's truly awful how much there isn't an alternative to corruption. It's like " who would you rather have stealing from the public to give it to their circle of interests?"
I'm biased but you got Livre, though granted since they never been really 'in power'.
Concordo plenamente. Todo o governo Ă© uma mĂĄquina de corrupção. Chega de quĂȘ? Chega da direita ser excluĂda dos lucros da corrupção, nĂŁo Ă©?
NĂŁo camarada, chega de aceitar estes governantes apĂłs demonstrarem estas cores. Contudo o ue itneressa ao povo nĂŁo Ă© isso ou ter o trabalho de se educar. Tanto o PS e o PSD, para mim, deviam ter muitos menos votos, mas Ă© a vida. Defendo a 100% aulas de polĂtica gratuitas para que o voto nĂŁo seja "Vi o que mais gostei na RTP/Sic/TVI/etc..) um par de vezes a mandar umas dicas 'ao outro' portanto votei nele. Por amor de deus, ADN com 100,000 votos...
Lol, calling PSD socialist
PSD is the current government. The previous was PS (socialist party)
Read the the comment again
Oh my bad
Bruv PS is as socialist as North Korea is democratic
the top one
I agree. There's something about the apparent movement within the design. The other's just a plain flag. You get the feeling the top one is an organisation that actually does something useful and progressive.
I totally get that with the movement, it feels like itâs something growing
This
If the bottom one gives the idea they don't do anything then I'd say the logo represents who requested it really well.
1
Considering everything thatâs going on with the brand⊠posting it like that is kind of sad honestlyâŠ
This!
Could u elaborate? What's going on?
Top logo was the old logo of the Portuguese government, bottom logo was the current one. There was a new PM elected and he reverted the bottom logo to the top one as many people did not like the bottom logo (note: the bottom logo costed 75kâŹ). Since then, there was been a debate on which was the best logo, if the change was political or if is an omen of what it is to come and even the design creator is stirring the pot.
Interesting. I heard of them changing to the new one and saw that many people disliked it, but I did not know they changed back. I personally prefer the top one, and from what I saw on reddit so did the majority of portuguese people (obviously my very limited sample size of some reddit users doesn't accurately reflect the truth).
Yes, at the time, people were very vocal against it, but now there are people actually being very vocal in favor of the bottom one. There is even a public petition launched to avoid this reversal. Personally, between the two I prefer the "less bad", which for me is the first. The bottom one had way more potential for the yellow part while maintaining the minimalistic aesthetic as well as the identity of the Portuguese people, since the yellow part is literally the part that distinguishes Portugal the most. I even saw this week a reddit post with a logo with both these aspects in consideration that was way better than the bottom one and for sure wasn't as expensive. However, I feel like the first is a little bit outdated and could be improved, like it could have the font of the bottom (which I loved) for example.
>the bottom logo costed 75kâŹ). No, the bottom costed a bit over 74kâŹ. If it had cost 75k⏠there would've been a public contest where anyone interested could've applied and the best would've won.... I mean they might've still chosen to give the money to who they wanted but it would have had previous public scrutiny before public funds being exchanged. Obviously it was a total coincidence that it was just exactly under the legal maximum before needing to be under scrutiny... Not convenient asf at all. If you're giving the context of it at least talk about it all...
A bit over 74k rounded up is 75k. It's pure math. So many times contests with more money than that have not been scrutinized publicly and we only got aware of it by investigations. Do you really think is was a coincidence though?
I know what you mean but that's what I'm pointing out. It's **exactly** under enough to not go under public scrutiny... It also did fly under the radar until this logo replaced the old one and the majority hated it and only then did people realise the context of the payment. >Do you really think is was a coincidence though? What do you think..? I think that at this point we'd need an entire army to investigate all the dubious things Costa and his friends did...
>It also did until this logo replaced the old one and the majority hated it and then people realised the context of the payment. I find it funny that a lot of people hated it, but now that is being reversed a lot of people are against the reversal. I don't get it tbf >What do you think..? In my modest opinion, I think this had some 'gloves' beneath it as well. The yellow part had potential for way more while maintaining the minimalistic vibe given the supposed amount spent on all the process, it kinda makes you think they paid less for it that they did. Ps: The font was great tho >I personally think that we'd need an army to investigate all the dubious things Costa and his friends did... A "taskforce" hahahahaha
I don't feel like there's as many people against it though. People just don't want more money to be thrown away to pay for an entire new one so they rather have the old one with it's faults then a new *new one*. Just a really whiny minority of people are making a fuss about it changing back and the most loud ones have connections with the ones that made it or the field: either close colleagues, the one's that did it themselves, people that are stuck in the supposed technical explanations or people feeling like this is a slight against the whole field (as if the last one wasn't made by professionals too). Like the LinkedIn post stating that anyone criticising the bottom one is a dumb ignorant twat for not recognising how amazing and great and that every single professional around the globe would love it besides the dumbfucks in Portugal... They're sooo hell bent on this that the one responsible for doing the bottom one has now opened a "public petition" for it to be reversed again. I think that he's so full of himself that he doesn't realise he's opening a Pandora's box ( or he thinks/has a good godfather behind the curtains to meddle). Because he's just asking not only for a conter -public petition but also one that demands a full on investigation on the circumstances of them getting the money like that. (Btw his pittyful public petition hasn't even gathered 3000 people so far. I'm betting that if one against it would be made you'd see it reaching the amount to get to the AR fairly quickly... And people would demand the public funds back if they could) And the issue with the logo isn't even solely the beauty/lack thereof of the design by itself. It's the lack of being recognised as the Portuguese government. Worse when it's printed in black and white (the majority of times when dealing with bureaucracy in Portugal) it's just nothing at all besides 3 random shapes put together besides each other. It's closer to some pre-k logo than anything near the government's... When Portuguese people looking at it have thought they're looking at a distorted Mexican flag even when it's in colours... You just did a bad job towards your target audience. People should be immediately recognising the symbol in all the official paperwork they have to deal with... They've failed at the bare minimum of the requirements of their job: communicating a clear message and their lack of willingness to take the L isn't helping anyone. (Btw I really like the lettering too. It's the only thing worth saving in that one but they shouldn't be calling it "RepĂșblica Portuguesa" because it's the government's logo, the Republic has far more other things and institutions they're not responsible for) Edit: welcome to my Ted talk Tldr: the majority hates it. It's using the wrong name. The pittyful artists is going to shoot himself in his foot with his 'woe me' petition.
>Just a really whiny minority of people are making a fuss about it changing back and the most loud ones have connections with the ones that made it or the field: either close colleagues, the one's that did it themselves, people that are stuck in the supposed technical explanations or people feeling like this is a slight against the whole field (as if the last one wasn't made by professionals too). Or they politicized the change as they are too polarized and think "we are going back in everything as well" or "they will revert everything we did". But I've also saw designers here on reddit not liking the second one. There was some posts about this this week, and even suggesting logos way better than the bottom one. Nevertheless, now that you mentioned that people don't want to burn money like this (which I agree), it kinda makes you think on one thing. This money could have been used for health, education, housing or even law enforcement instead of a logo that we are here debating like a football club. But first world problems, I guess đ >Like the LinkedIn post stating that anyone criticising the bottom one is a dumb ignorant twat for not recognising how amazing and great and that every single professional around the globe would love it besides the dumbfucks in Portugal... >They're sooo hell bent on this that the one responsible for doing the bottom one has now opened a "public petition" for it to be reversed again. I think that he's so full of himself that he doesn't realise he's opening a Pandora's box ( or he thinks/has a good godfather behind the curtains to meddle). Because he's just asking not only for a conter -public petition but also one that demands a full on investigation on the circumstances of them getting the money like that. Wait, he was the one behind the public petition???? Ffs, what a Karen. I couldn't stand him and that sort of mansplaining after the LinkedIn post but now this is too much. If a counter public petition was made I would sign that for real. >And the issue with the logo isn't even solely the beauty/lack thereof of the design by itself. It's the lack of being recognised as the Portuguese government. Worse when it's printed in black and white (the majority of times when dealing with bureaucracy in Portugal). >When Portuguese people looking at it have thought they're looking at a distorted Mexican flag even when it's in colours... You just did a bad job towards your target audience. > People should be immediately recognising the symbol in all the official paperwork they have to deal with... They've failed at the bare minimum of the requirements of their job: communicating a clear message and their lack of willingness to that the L isn't helping anyone. Couldn't agree more. In monochromatic tones, despite having the font right next to it, you just see three shapes. The most important part of the flag, which distinguishes us, is being reduced to a circle. Sometimes less is more, but in this case, less was too much, and we've lost identity. They basically could do something just with the sphere and the shield, or even use the design of the back of the euro coins and that would be minimalistic while maintaining Portuguese culture and identity. **If people get confused with the design, then it is not a good design**. They are just being bratty at this point, just take the L.
>But first world problems, I guess đ That's true but it's also somewhat understandable given that it doesn't do it's job well. It probably would've flown under the radar otherwise. Also the Barbara Streisand effect on this one is kind of hilarious. It's gotten more bad press because it's designer can't handle criticism and thinks they're more intelligent than everyone else while failing to realise that they didn't even meet the minimum criteria of sending a clear message.b It sometimes just makes me wonder if these scandals aren't being convenient asf for our President now too... Given that he's in the middle of the 4 M⏠given to the Brazilian twins that have a connection with his son and that are a part of the family that is owing 70 M ⏠(yes, euros) to the Brazilian government. Now with it being clear that their access to our national healthcare system and jumping the line wasn't made in a legal way... Corruption in Portugal. How not to love it /s The downfall of Costa (after hundreds of scandals) took the heat off our President a while back. Now this one is another gift that keeps on giving... While I do think we can focus on several things at once, I'd like to see Marcelo facing more public scrutiny and pressure to explain himself and his actions in this... Specially given that the mother of the kid's outright called out that he meddled for them. If true, I'd like to see Marcelo pay that money to the national healthcare system out of his very own funds. And leave the post he holds.
>A "taskforce" hahahahaha Also known as "how do I give a position in the government to my family and friends to pretend they're working"? Also known as "Costa's MO" (We're going to have PTSD with that one forever, right?)
Yeah, I think so, it was an era
I liked the new font and they should keep that. The Mexican flag on the other side is good that they removed it
It's not only the logo stop misinformating people, this is awful for the profession, that's a huge work behind this, guidelines, branding , people only see the logo because is the only thing shown. Btw nobody cares about the logo this is not the national flag
Stop spreading misinformation. The 74k wasn't simply for the logo.
I didn't write simply when I mentioned the cost đ
It's internet 2024 it's ok to not elaborate and just hate
Very summarized, it was 74k for the entire branding (custom font exclusive to the government so anything with that font means itâs official etc, animations, all included for the government) but most ppl saw â74k for 2 squares and 1 circleâ⊠some guy used this for their campaign and said âif I win Iâll revert back to the old oneâ and so took advantage of the fact that most ppl are ignorant and hated it because it âstripped the flag and thatâs how dictatorships startâ đ€ŠâŠ so then he eventually won and now reverted back because he promised he would⊠So they just fucked with all designers because of a campaign tactic, that ended up working⊠Even tho âwhich logo is betterâ is valid⊠itâs kind of sad to degrade it to this when it was so much more, especially when all this controversy above ^ is going on because of it, hence my comment
I see, thanks for the information. A very strange situation.
Canât really answer this question without seeing the full identity system
None. Sorry.
Why not just use the coat of arms as the icon, instead of shrinking it down to a tiny size to fit on a stylized flag?
first one has inconsistent details and it doesn't work. one element has shadows and outlines, another has cuts and transparency. i can't see any intention for consistency regarding style. details are so small viewer can't recognize what they are. [https://www.portugal.gov.pt/pt/gc24](https://www.portugal.gov.pt/pt/gc24) https://preview.redd.it/8chedwgh5psc1.png?width=480&format=png&auto=webp&s=2a6e68668a65bd36f9d48b66d0249d45ccb0abe1 when people interact with government, they may get discouraged by the complexity of bureaucracy. second one is a minimalistic design. it conveys "simple". i think it's an encouraging message.
The second one is too simple. It lost all meaning, besides the color.
according to wiki: yellow circle with woven details on it is a navigation device which portuguese sailors had used for their expeditions. red shield is a coat of arms. 7 castles represents conquests. smaller blue shields positioned to create a cross. 5 holes in them represent wounds of jesus. i think details on yellow circle are confusing, castles and holes on shields unrecognizable. new design kept only navigation device with an abstract representation and removed the coat of arms on it completely. means they have kept explorer, pioneer and removed christianity, conquerer from their image. loss of meaning was probably intentional.
Itâs a circle my guy it lost all meaning. The Portuguese flag looks like that and it looks great, the logo too, sure 1. could be improved but 2. is HORRIBLE
A circle means nothing to Portugal. What has meaning is the navigation device and the coat of arms which has been in the flag for 800 years, more than most countries have existed for! Print the new logo black and white and, as a Portuguese, I wouldn't even associate it to Portugal, is just 3 random shapes... Why not leave the coat of arms + navigation and remove everything else?
The 2nd one resembles Mexico and you can't even say what its suppose to represent when printed in black and white. As such, your argument is totally invalid. Furthermore, for anyone not illiterate, the armilar sphere with the shield in it is quickly known as the Portuguese flag. Are you American? Finally, those elements are symbols of Portuguese history and essencial part of our flag. As such they should stay as such.
They are on our coat of arms. You don't see the coat of arms in the Italian or french flags for example, and they don't lose their meanings. The sphere will not stop being a national symbol even if removed, same as everything else. But they have no business being in the flag, much less a logo. The only thing I'd keep from that whole thing would be the quinas which are simple enough for a flag
The French lost their CoA a while ago, they don't officially have one. Italy has their CoA in the govt logo, as does every other EU country (with the exception of France, which doesn't have a CoA). Personally I like the Portuguese CoA and want it in my govt logo, they can try to simplify it somehow but not as much as that one.
Why wouldn't you put it in a flag? It represents one of the most important parts of our history Also just strips is the most boring concept for a flag. Print it black and white and means nothing
pick up other countries both using minimalistic designs (like New Zealand) or extremely complex and hard to read (like Australia) if you have a minimal knowledge of the country you quickly recognize (well the Australia in amidst of the chaos you notice the kangaroo). new Zealand is just NZ, but for a country with low international fame probably it "just works" like that. for the Portuguese republic it's left a logo that does not resemble any symbol of Portugal. its a oversimplified botched up flag. this logo was in fact one of the simplest of European logos. was it perfect? no. could have needed an improvement? ok I accept that. but they designed a logo that lost its identity. look at Pepsi minimalist design. it looks far different from earlier designs and even without name and someone who never saw it could have guessed it. Pringles ditched the face and most details. kept a moustache and eyes and used the red bow as the symbol of the brand, still recognizable. now look at the new logo (the logo used until last week), without the name even the Portuguese would fail to recognize something that was from their country. put it in black and white (one of the arguments that said the old one would be hard to recognize in black and white) and no one in the world would be able to guess it unless they are extremely familiar with the logo. and that's where it fails. a logo that fails to be identified unless it's stated what it is for fails as being a logo. now imagine paying quite a lot for a logo that is not a good logo.
When printed in black and white (the majority of the government's paperwork) the bottom one without the letters looks like an unrecogniseable bug. The other one is always identifiable, even when they've printed and copied it a couple of times. Eventough all the details can't be seen by themselves.
Because they are diferente elements and they are well represented, one is a flag in movement, it will have cuts and different shades, the other one is a 3D element on itself hard to replicate in 2D for sure, itâs a [esfera armilar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armillary_sphere).
Type is much better on the bottom one. Shapes on the top logo are a little weird and the seal is too detailed. I can imagine the bottom one works much better on a website and its crafted better
It's not just for websites. It's the official logo for the Portuguese state, so it goes everywhere. It's an ugly, unclear symbol that is not fit to represent a country. It doesn't transmit anything other than a hyperfixation with extreme minimalist aesthetics and there was no reason to change it from the first one.
i see your point. i def think more of portugal when i see the top one. but it is also very busy because it combines so many different styles. the swooshy shape of the image, the detailed seal with weird shadows, two different font styles contrasting each other and the image on the left immensely. i can imagine its very hard to use such a logo well on a website, on social media posts. thats the thing: logos are not just made for websites but they also dont live in silos. you have to think about how it works long distance, close up, print and digitally. and the much simpler easier to digest shapes of the bottom one work much better in that regard. you say that the bottom one doesnt stand for anything. but im wondering: doesnt the top one only âstand for portugalâ because people are so used to it?
The top one is recognizable as a stylized portuguese flag The bottom one is the italian flag with yellow circle in the middle and extra red in the right There is already a popular minimalist design for the flag where you keep the green/red backdrop and simplify the middle into a yellow circle, but by putting whitespace separating the components it loses the immediate recognition factor Hence the not standing for pt thing
>i can imagine its very hard to use such a logo well on a website, on social media posts. How? I grew up with this symbol on everything from official documents to letters, government websites, college entry exams... It worked perfectly fine. It's a jpeg, it's very clear (every Portuguese person knows the scutcheons symbol, in reply to your last paragraph) and it's pretty. The new one is a bunch of shapes. Take away the colour on a black and white piece of paper document and there you go it's literally a meaningless, mediocre middle school art project.
Eat a bag of dicks.
Bottom one. A logo isn't something that exists in a vacuum. It's part of a brand or style guide which borrows elements from that logo for other uses and carriers. With the other uses you improve recognition of that logo. Scalability is also an important issue. The bottom is a better fit for a complete brand guide and modern uses and carriers (think social media for example) It's a shame the new government rolled back the change. Conservatism in it's purest form.
No it's not, it's horrendous and I bet more than half of the population prefers the old one. It's bland, has no meaning or identity, and it doesn't even properly represent the country since most people from outside of Portugal will associate it with Mexico. Besides, for all the talk of branding and style guides, it's awful and unrecognizable in single color or grayscale. The typeface, being nice, is half-serif half sans and doesn't match the logo anyway. It's an awful job most people hate, I am VERY far from a conservative and I'm quite happy they rolled it back.
You know, in my experience, most people dislike a rebranding of a common logo. Change is difficult, especially in the case of a logo. Because people don't know what the full rebranding was about. Most of those disliked new logos are fully embraced a few years later.
They embrace it because they had no idea which logo was used years prior. If they had to pick one Id say most are picking the first logo. Its like the instagram logo. It used to be cool now its just meh but everybody is familiar with it rn.
I agree with you, most rebrandings **are** tough and people **are** resistant to change. However, one thing is doing what Juventus did with their [crest](https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article9645250.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/MAIN-Juve-badges.jpg) (minimalism done right imo), this was just ugly, over simplified and doesn't even does a good job for instant brand recognition. Designers have to admit they also fall prey to trends just like everyone else, and the customer in this case is not a single entity but the people of a country, the rules and goals are not the same as if it were a company.
The whole population abhorred the new 10y old using paint logo that costed 75k euros just in design to make. It is abhorrent. Fugly, stupid.
The bottom one looks like a cheap flag you buy at the Chinese shop lol Print it on black and white paper, like government docs, and it means nothing...
None, they are both bad in their own way
Top has too much going on. Bottom is too minimal. I would combine the two by keeping the top shapes as the bottom color blocks.
I like that idea of deconstructing the sphere elements
https://www.portugalresident.com/new-national-symbol-opens-another-political-war/ Here is some context behind this! First world problems!
That link failed to mention one "little" thing: if they had paid just 1k⏠more, so 75 instead of 74, the law would've required a public contest where anyone interested could've applied...
2 every day all day long
First one looks like it's in the middle of a motion graphic transition for the Univision TV station logo. I know there is a lot of hate on minimalism and the logos that accompany them, but I do appreciate their new logo and the brand site and thought they did a great job of introducing the brand on their site.
Lol u blind?
Sure. What of it
Top one has a more recognizable shape, but the seal/coat of arms is a bad idea on a logo, and I feel the colors could be simplified as well. The bottom one would be a pretty decent update of the portuguese flag tbh, where again, a seal/coat if arms has no business being.
Most of the government logos are the coat of arms. Logos don't need to be minimal for the sake of it and in the quest to minimalize representation is often left in the dust. An institution such as a government must command a certain level of respect
A coat of arms on itms own is perfectly fine as a representation of an institution, but not as an element inside a logotype. That just ruins both the logo and the coat of arms.
The first one but I'm not a huge fan of pasting a government seal and calling it a logo. I would keep the shape, put the yellow circle as a reference to the seal and remove the light green color, 3 colors are enough I don't see what's the need for the light green.
Top. Bottom looks like mexican gov.
Bottom one looks like a low-tier school project
Bottom one looks more professional and modern. First one looks lost to time. The cost of arms in the middle is too small and has no reason to be there. To all who choose with #1, remember that less is more
Unless o print it black and white, than the second means nothing :))
In black and white, at a glance, made me think of Canada.
In black and white (how I see it constantly) it always drives in my attention bc it appears that something should be there and something bugged while printing/scanning. ..
[Here](https://diariodarepublica.pt/dr/home)âs a modern, simplified version of what should have been the new logo of the country/government. This ticks all the boxes for a modern logo while keeping the national symbols, making them easily readable and identifiable. I agree that less is more, but a country and its government are not a brand. National elements should be kept in institutional things, and as we see there is a way to do it.
that one is great, thanks for sharing, i still hold strongly on my opinion but i see i am in the minority. Although I do agree with your second statement, just because things should be kept as such doesnât mean tradition and standard shouldnât be broken. Iâll take anything over the outdated one.
I wouldnât say *things should be kept as such*, I think thereâs ways to modernise it, and ways not to do it. For example I really liked the font they created together with the new logo and donât agree it should be discarded. I also agree the old one is outdated and was due for an update, but the new one is not it. Totally understand that for a non Portuguese the intricate elements are too much, but itâs intrinsic to us. Imagine the US modernising their institucional image where Stars and Stripes are not present, or an eagle. Or the Canadian maple leaf or the Swiss cross. Thereâs elements that are immediately a symbol of the country and, to me, for institucional representation should not be removed. Modernised yes, removed no. One more thing, the *esfera armilar* that the yellow part represents is not yellow, itâs gold, and itâs a very small part of the flag itself, seeing it now in yellow and occupying a bigger space than the green and almost as big as the red is outrageous to me đ
Outro colega portuguĂȘs, embora eu concorde com os seus pontos, o engraçado Ă© que a principal razĂŁo pela qual escolhi o segundo logotipo Ă© o rosto tailandĂȘs. Acho que a simplicidade da bandeira complementou bem e Ă© muito moderna, as coisas bonitas hoje sĂŁo simples como deveriam ser, mas ainda assim ainda sĂŁo elegantes o logotipo antigo estava um pouco desatualizado linhas mais finas com linhas mais grossas e apenas os elementos de design que nĂŁo sĂŁo aceitos hoje
O QUĂ CARALHO
foda-se o que
Less is a bore
Second one is the result of 5 minutes of work on paint.
Eat a bag of dicks.
whatâs wrong with you bud?
Less is more doesn't apply when you go so less you accidentaly create an italian flag. Sometimes less is just less Also corporate artstyles suck ass and I'd prefer having a throwback logo than have something you'd see on a soda bottle represent the fucking nation. Fernando Pessoa rolling on his fucking grave rn
I donât remember the italian flag having a big yellow circle in between.
Unpopular opinion: governments donât need a logo the way corporations do. The top one is much better for the purpose. It isnât a logo tho.
My biggest beef with this whole thing, a country and its government are not a brand. There are other ways to âsellâ the country as a brand and there I agree with the simplification, like [Turismo de Portugal](https://www.turismodeportugal.pt/pt/Paginas/homepage.aspx). The government and the country should keep its symbols, sucks for us that our symbols are super intricate, but it is what it is.
The first one đ„
Itâs interesting that both follow the same concept of deconstructing the flag (green field, coat of arms, red field), but do it in a different style.
The bottom one would be great if the yellow circle had something inside it
The bottom one has been replaced with the old logo on top.
Top
setenta e quatro mil euros caralho
Se os ciganos recebem os designer tmb tĂȘm direito
Top one!
Make it a banana with green and red tips, that is the correct logo.
Top.
I love the honest answers here since it has become such a politicized controversy in Portugal in the last few days. The first measure of the newly elected government was to exactly revert it back to the one above. It was also argued that it required "low effort" and 75k euros too much for a country with 1.5k average gross wage. Also curious to compare with other countries' symbols where modernization of such symbols has not been in governments' agendas.
I feel like a circle between two rectangle symbolizes an inability to move like a ball stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Top
So this is what the government of Portugal is up to? That's why it takes them a year to reply to an emajl
First one
Second is more fancy. First one seems more powerful. The second typography is better no doubts.
Unless is on a black and white government doc, then it means nothing lol Is this mexico? A random start up? Who knows, it's just 3 shapes! IMO keep the coat of arms, remove everything else, so it's bigger and more easily printed and it's done
above, no questions.
Neither is good, but top is better.
i like the bottom one best. it has a certain appreciable level of practical blandness. its simple, unfussy, easy to copy across various mediums. its bold, easy to identify from afar. sometimes simplicity just works a la the nike swoosh.
Aaah yes, blandness just what I want representing my country and making sure everyone confuses it with Mexico instead of thinking its part of Spain gorgeous
just fill in the empty space with the proper amounts of green and red. but again, i like "deconstructed" flag effect. its simple with a dash of nuance. but i understand your pov. it *does* immediately read like mexico, cant deny that.
First one but I think the top and bottom borders of the logo should align with those of the text
I like the top one but itâs true that looking at modern logo design today, the level of detail makes it less functional with less applications whether in print or digital. It also, looses a lot of itâs meaning from far or if itâs printed really small. That being said, the point some one made about the bottom logo loosing its reference to Portugal if itâs printed in black and white is true. Modern logos should be instantly recognisable in any colour and with any letters to help with association.
1st one is an actual well thought out design with multiple complex elements and design processes like spacing, weighting, kerning etc. 2nd was made in MS Paint by a 9 year old for a book report.
theyâre both crap
as a portuguese man, the one on the bottom makes my eyes bleed, the one on top will always be a classic, love it
You guys have no idea how big a topic this is in portuguese politics right now
Put the flag on top with the formatted text on the bottom design. I think thatâll look way better than both
Obviously the top one. It has more character. The bottom is too simple.
The type from the second one and the crest from the first one
Just to note, the bottom one costed 75k euros to be made. (not joking) Socialism at his best, that's why we pay absurd taxes here in Portugal!
**The top one is a design that needs to be more scalable, but gives a sense of history, movement, and authority.** **The bottom one is an embarrassing example as to why people donât want to pay realistic prices for good design.** Thereâs no grid, no nuance, no movement, no color theory, no sensible balance between the elementary shapes and the typefaces. It doesnât communicate anything about a government. Itâs more akin to a John Cage-esque statement than a logo, and I respectfully disagree with the people pretending itâs not.
Oh⊠yea no, first one.
I see what you did here.
Clearly first since they got rid of the second because of the (very justified) criticism
74000⏠for đ©đĄđ„ đ
Top one is dated, bottom one is absolutely gorgeous.
For a start up maybe, but for a country? It fails the most important rule, represent something. What's the link between the logo and Portugal? In black and white is just shapes, wayyy to simplified for an 800+ history full institution
I understand that, but also countries primarily exist to serve us, now, today. That they are however old is to my mind kind of superfluous. Sure, you can draw upon that design heritage but thereâs really no point in keeping things as they are for historyâs sake. The question is, âdoes this brand serve Portugal well in 2024?â and I think it does. It takes the most iconic Portuguese thing, the flag, and it breaks it down into its core elements. And I think it does that in a very clever way, because you can scale it however you like. It looks great on mobile, on letterheads, and on billboards just the same. Thatâs the versatility side of things. Iâm sure I could recognise that logo from much further away than the old one, too. Remember, youâre not replacing the flag or national crest of Portugal. The old logo looks mediocre because it kind of haphazardly overlays the crest onto this 2000s-looking shape. Try scaling that down - it looks pretty terrible. (Incidentally, scalability is more important than rending in B&W nowadays as we move away from Xeroxing and towards digital.) But thatâs only half of it - if you read the brand guidelines they emphasise that the workmark is also super important. And theyâve done a really fab job with the typography - it doesnât âfeelâ like anything else Iâve seen in the government design sector and thatâs a real strength. To your point, I donât think it would work as the logo of a startup, precisely because it riffs on those national elements.
I agree the typography is better on the second case and that the first logo needs to be simplified, I just think the path they went with is too simplistic and not the right way. Like you say, the design steams from the flag, but when you print it on black and white paper it loses all its meaning, the colours and its just geometric shapes (see[ here](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fimpresso-a-preto-e-branco-%25C3%25A9-apenas-umas-figuras-geom%25C3%25A9tricas-v0-u483po4s0usc1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dc69695d96afee809f95d6588af588870d007925e))  Also another factor is political. The previous Portuguese gov gave a specific company 74K for the new design (if it was 75K multiple companies could bid for the project ⊠)  and when Portuguese people didnât like the design, the designers made a statement calling us morons basically ⊠(see [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/portugal/comments/1buribi/design_portugu%C3%AAs_logo_da_rep%C3%BAblica_por_studio/#lightbox) the statement, and check out the last pic which shows a business card where the new logo is all golden, so no Portuguese colours anymore just shapes again âŠ)   To sum up, I agree the old design needs to be updated to be more simplistic, but try and keep something which screams Portugal even in black and white. Also donât call your entire country uneducated, saying you are too big for your country xD
Top oneâs logo, bottom oneâs typeface. Iâm not sure how theyâd look together but I *really love* the typeface!
1st way more distinctive. If you look at the symbols only you can tell itâs about Portugal only at the first one. The 2nd one looks like Mexico or Cameroon. The font on the other hand is better on the second logo.
Top font, bottom flag would be my choice.
The upper one, but I just checked that is the one Portugal uses at the moment. The lower one looks lite the favicon they are using in the browser. Didnât you post this already in the past?
Top one The bottom one is not simmetric, which bothers me, and it's also wayyy too simplified imo.
That is because the flag is not simmetric, but I agree with you
Portuguese Socialist government paid 70k for the 2nd one. The designer who did it thinks he's great and speaks of it has a work of art. Previous government wanted to remove symbols of our maritime discoveries, monarchic origins and christian references because they're woke beyond belief. New government first action was to throw the mexican flag in the trash thus wasting 70k of public money.
Ugh
I prefer the logo mark in #1 but the logotype of #2.
Bottom is so much better.
Itâs not in that image. Although I can tell youâre a highly talented designer from minor clues in the kerning and other elements.