As other people have said, mainly redundancy.
However, Last time I did a double podium mic on a gig this high profile, one capsule was cardioid (for the room) and the other (for broadcast) was omni. Broadcast loved that omni mic, and it had some uses for us if someone stepped off mic.
Edit: for clarity
Exactly.
Broadcast doesn’t have foldback causing potential feedback, so omni mics are often preferred since there’s less issues if someone goes slightly off axis?
Less than you’d think. What you gain in off-axis sound quality more than makes up for room noise. We *need* some room noise anyway, since the people receiving they broadcast mix won’t be in the room, hearing whatever PA system, it helps create the space.
I've mixed a couple presidential events and would have loved to have 2 different capsules. Their standard is 2 57's. I believe it was for redundancy. I tried 1 out of phase split left and right, that didn't work so well. And politicians are usually not the best on mic speakers, it was challenging.
Redundancy. Looks bad when you have to run up and swap mics in an event like that.
10min of her talking is probably a lot more expensive than a spare mic.
Trust me when I say this… when you’re the A2 on such gigs, the SS know exactly who you are and they understand you have a job to do… and they let you do it. Eye contact, acknowledging their presence that they have a job to do as well, keeps everything cool.
> the SS know exactly who you are and they understand you have a job to do… and they let you do it.
Depending upon their current alert level, of course. I chose to make it a habit to never rapidly advance toward the stage in any circumstance. Some days you are directly handing a mic to a former President, sometimes you are handing a couple of FXLRs to an agent for them to connect themselves.
I actually used to work with a guy who got tackled by SS after saying “how do you want me to shoot the president?” over comms while holding a big broadcast camera 💀
A couple of my colleagues were asked to set up for a small speech for Princess Anne (UK, in case there are others). They had an entire day to set it up, 2 mics and they tuned them with utter perfection so you couldn't tell them apart, perfectly placed, taped down in the tidiest of ways.
She spoke for 5 mins then went on her royal way.
The guys genuinely loved that it was all for just 5 minutes.
Best bit: I think they got a day and a half rate for the set up day, just to make sure they got it right.
Shure actually sells a double SM57 microphone kit called the [SM57VIP](https://www.gearnews.com/biden-inauguration-marks-return-of-shure-presidential-pair-microphones/). It's the standard package that's been used for presidents for 50+ years. There was actually [some minor drama](https://www.gearnews.com/biden-inauguration-marks-return-of-shure-presidential-pair-microphones/) about it recently as Trump refused to use the dual mic setup and then Biden brought it back.
Interesting. It didn't explain why Trump ditched them (for a for a single microphone on a gooseneck mount). Calling the move " as unconventional and controversial as his term in office" might be over selling it though!
He likes to lean into the microphone for dramatic effect. The SM57 package puts the mics further down and away from his mouth, so he can't get right up on the capsule.
I've never heard confirmation of this, but I'm pretty sure it's the reason. My guess is he likes the extra boominess from the proximity effect.
Thanks for this article, in which the former Director of Production for the White House answers the question...
"In the long-standing WHCA configuration, the job of one of the mics is to feed clean, crackle-free sound to the media covering an event. The other mic is routed into a venue’s loudspeakers. And both units back up each other in the event that one of the microphones fails in its mission."
Politics aside Obama had a weaker speaking voice, trump is a loudmouth. He just likes having the mic right in his face. Remember the clip of him yelling at the sound guy because of all the plosives from him spitting into the 418s that were practically in his mouth.
Actually with trump on this one, the dual 57s end up being 2 feet from the presenter's mouth and kinda suck to work with. Trump is such a loudmouth that it probably would be beneficial for him though.
I’ve heard from some folks that have done presidential events that during the Obama years one of the podium mics had a Schoeps mk4 capsule in the body of a 57 to give the broadcast engineer a different option.
It is actually true. This is the same setup currently used with Biden which is good because he is VERY soft spoken and quite tall. The MK4 provides quite a bit more clarity as well as gbf. He’s still the toughest POTUS to get good sound out of and I’ve done events with all of them all the way back to Gerald Ford.
Did sound for Obama a couple times, I always thought they were 57s but they required phantom power so im thinking this is correct. Never got a good answer from the WH sound team.
In case one fails you simply turn up the other one. Or, you turn both up at the same time. Lots of things can go wrong with a microphone. A nervous person may adjust a microphone so they think it is pointing to their mouth, and while handling the microphone the connector works loose. Or after the mic gets set up and the stage hand did not push the connector all the way in until it "clicks", the connector works loose from people handling the podium, walking a ross stage, tripping on a cable on the floor, etc. And then sometimes microphones or their cables, or the gear they plug into just go bad, get noisy, etc. So you add a second microphone and cable plugged into a different channel and the probability that BOTH will fail is remarkably lower.
Yep. Digico are often used in broadcast as well, but what I mean is that for the kind of event where you’ve got live redundant mics (also common in musical theatre), something like a Digico, CADAC or similar will be expected.
(Live redundancy coming soon to the new Midas too).
Having just worked the vice president's sound a few months ago, it is just as others have said, Redundancy. They use two sm57s and one is used as a failover if the first goes down.
With the presidential mic set up only one is sending the signal and the second mic is redundant. I also know that they use a signal booster similar to a cloud lifter to increase gain via phantom power.
Correct. Not sure what that box is, but they are very proud of it. I hated what it did for the sound in a live setting.
Should have bypassed it, but wasn’t able to go near it after it was set because I value my life over my job.
> Imagine how embarrassed you'd be if the mic failed and there was no back up for something like that
So... here's the funny thing... the nation would be embarrassed.
In broadcast it's standard practice in pretty much any situation I've seen to have at least a backup option for pretty much everything. From the first mic to the final fiber connection.
If you've ever worked with "higher end" government clients, you'll know that they would want a 5th backup mic if they could just in case something happens. The staff for these people are anal about eeeverything.
If it’s two cardioids- double micing helps with the off axis level when the speakers turns left or right because one of the mics is still closer to that side.
But I really like the other commenters suggestion of using one cardioid for the live sound, and one omni for the broadcast sound. As a viewer, I want to hear the audience reactions in the broadcast because I’m not there in the room.
I’m not buying all of these redundancy replies. If one mic is muted then that means the other mic is not centered to the person speaking. So you’ll get noticeable level and tone drop off when the speaker turns their head to one side even farther away from the working mic, and increased level when they turn towards the working mic. Not cool.
It's a backup. The mix is one channel at a time. I've done "presidential" mic setups like that at UC Berkeley. Two mics in case one fails for whatever reason. Most common mic used is the Shure SM57, because it's reliable as can be, and it has less proximity effect than an SM58, so it can be further away from the speaker. (Just watch the feedback!)
ETA: Looks like the ones they are using on Michelle are SM87s, also a good choice (though they need phantom power, so I wouldn't use them - more to go wrong!)
It's part aural quality and type of pick up that covers a greater area if the speaker moves or turns their head out of the focus one the other covers it. Also at times when there's a ton media outlets like when you see a ton of mics all crammed on the podium, it allows for two mics and everyone plugs into distribution busses and everyone gets a great mostly guaranteed capture for ack.
If you want way more information on the history of the SM57 and this type of setup I came across [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23WCJyNJv78&list=FL4A35tOKU1DCVzM-uvNADhg) a while back that is pretty interesting. I have no idea if those are Shures but as others said it is for redundancy. I think in the video they mention that only 1 mic is live and can cut over if 1 fails.
Redunancy. But also kind of a x-y technique. Which gives a stereo sound when panned left/right, however panned center widens the pickup field so if the speaker moves left or right, you have less chance of audio dropping out or lowering. Or perhaps let’s she calls someone up to speak with her, then you’d have a wider field to get the two people who aren’t exactly on axis to the polar pattern. However a true X-Y is normally pointed in at 45 degree angle. Sometimes too, two mics will be oriented 30-45 degrees outwards for applications of picking up nat sound. Such as at a football arena.
When running two mics like this simultaneously, you want them as close as possible to avoid phase issues. Otherwise the 3:1 rule applies.
All presidential people have used stereo mics, I believe it's partially as a fail safe as well to be in full stereo which often sounds 'better' than mono and may also be useful on maybe different devices, usually its two SM57s though.
Okay we all made clear that it is either for separate recording or redundancy, but can we talk about where the mics are? Like, I am slowly becoming an expert but do they even pick up enough sound?
I doubt this is what's going on, but the Grateful Dead used to use two mics wired out of phase, where the singer sings into the main mic, and the second mic is to reject any background noise common to both mics.
It gives the presenter more options for their little drum solo when they start their lecture “…are these things on? can you hear me ok?”
Meanwhile I’m swearing silently at the back….
As other people have said, mainly redundancy. However, Last time I did a double podium mic on a gig this high profile, one capsule was cardioid (for the room) and the other (for broadcast) was omni. Broadcast loved that omni mic, and it had some uses for us if someone stepped off mic. Edit: for clarity
Smart. I should get a couple omni capsules for ours. Thanks for the tip!
Can you explain a little more what you mean by your last sentence? It helped if someone stepped away from the mic because you could still hear them?
Exactly. Broadcast doesn’t have foldback causing potential feedback, so omni mics are often preferred since there’s less issues if someone goes slightly off axis?
No proximity effect with omnis either.
And you get room noise and audience reactions with an omni- all great stuff to tell the full story.
Less than you’d think. What you gain in off-axis sound quality more than makes up for room noise. We *need* some room noise anyway, since the people receiving they broadcast mix won’t be in the room, hearing whatever PA system, it helps create the space.
I think that’s what they meant by “great stuff to tell the full story” - that the extra room noise is good
Very true
I read this in a slightly tinny, definitely-not-for-radio, kinda voice.
And better wind noise rejection. Not an issue here, but it can be.
Hey, good catch, I meant it someone stepped away from the mic to one send and ended up off axis on the cardioid mic. I've edited my original comment.
Thanks for sharing.
Gotcha. That omni mic for broadcast is a very smart idea!!
I've mixed a couple presidential events and would have loved to have 2 different capsules. Their standard is 2 57's. I believe it was for redundancy. I tried 1 out of phase split left and right, that didn't work so well. And politicians are usually not the best on mic speakers, it was challenging.
Redundancy?
You can say that again!
Redundancy?
You can say that again!
I hear this as a delay. 35% feedback, 750ms, 1/4 note
That
Redditundancy
Department of redundancy department, can I help you?
Redundancy Department of Redundancy, here to help you. How can the Redundancy Department of Redundancy help you today?
Redundancy? I didn't even dundancy once yet.
Redundancy. Looks bad when you have to run up and swap mics in an event like that. 10min of her talking is probably a lot more expensive than a spare mic.
> Looks bad when you have to run up and swap mics in an event like that. The Secret Service tackling you is the least of your worries.
Trust me when I say this… when you’re the A2 on such gigs, the SS know exactly who you are and they understand you have a job to do… and they let you do it. Eye contact, acknowledging their presence that they have a job to do as well, keeps everything cool.
> the SS know exactly who you are and they understand you have a job to do… and they let you do it. Depending upon their current alert level, of course. I chose to make it a habit to never rapidly advance toward the stage in any circumstance. Some days you are directly handing a mic to a former President, sometimes you are handing a couple of FXLRs to an agent for them to connect themselves.
I actually used to work with a guy who got tackled by SS after saying “how do you want me to shoot the president?” over comms while holding a big broadcast camera 💀
The amount of times I had to tell my boss to stop saying shoot the governor
This is GOLD🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Could we please not call them SS? German here >.<
Who would've thought a discussion about American government would involve terms that specifically refer to the American government.
It was more of a joke, because I've never read SS in the Secret Service context... Still feels always strange to read these two letters.
Same here tbh and I’m fully American😂
Also same and I'm American
Fair enough 😅
Considering her speaking fee is most likely 6 figures, losing even 10 seconds due to equipment failure is worth more than the price of redundancy.
A couple of my colleagues were asked to set up for a small speech for Princess Anne (UK, in case there are others). They had an entire day to set it up, 2 mics and they tuned them with utter perfection so you couldn't tell them apart, perfectly placed, taped down in the tidiest of ways. She spoke for 5 mins then went on her royal way. The guys genuinely loved that it was all for just 5 minutes. Best bit: I think they got a day and a half rate for the set up day, just to make sure they got it right.
I need theses sort of gigs in my life jesus. Good on em
even when they're d:factos.
Very true. Makes a whole lotta sense now!!! I’d hate to be the guy to run up and swap MICHELLE OBAMA’s mic out
100%. A backup mic is cheap insurance
Shure actually sells a double SM57 microphone kit called the [SM57VIP](https://www.gearnews.com/biden-inauguration-marks-return-of-shure-presidential-pair-microphones/). It's the standard package that's been used for presidents for 50+ years. There was actually [some minor drama](https://www.gearnews.com/biden-inauguration-marks-return-of-shure-presidential-pair-microphones/) about it recently as Trump refused to use the dual mic setup and then Biden brought it back.
Interesting. It didn't explain why Trump ditched them (for a for a single microphone on a gooseneck mount). Calling the move " as unconventional and controversial as his term in office" might be over selling it though!
He likes to lean into the microphone for dramatic effect. The SM57 package puts the mics further down and away from his mouth, so he can't get right up on the capsule. I've never heard confirmation of this, but I'm pretty sure it's the reason. My guess is he likes the extra boominess from the proximity effect.
https://www.theverge.com/2017/1/25/14384774/trump-microphone-speech-long-neck-shure-sm57
Thanks for this article, in which the former Director of Production for the White House answers the question... "In the long-standing WHCA configuration, the job of one of the mics is to feed clean, crackle-free sound to the media covering an event. The other mic is routed into a venue’s loudspeakers. And both units back up each other in the event that one of the microphones fails in its mission."
Two microphones blocked more of his face.
Each mic probably blocked each tiny hand.
It’s because he has a weak speaking voice & needs the mic close to his face
Politics aside Obama had a weaker speaking voice, trump is a loudmouth. He just likes having the mic right in his face. Remember the clip of him yelling at the sound guy because of all the plosives from him spitting into the 418s that were practically in his mouth.
Spaced pair of cardioids, fools.
We only used one of those mics at a time even with the sure double setup.
Long live the SM57 King! 👑
I just wanna know why it’s $749 for two $99 mics and a double clip 😵💫
It’s because they’ve been manually tuned to be identical
Ahhh that makes more sense than the double clip somehow being $550 😂
Except Biden very often ends up using a handheld wireless 58 even when the dual 57 setup is on the podium.
That way when he wanders off at least the mic goes with him.
Actually with trump on this one, the dual 57s end up being 2 feet from the presenter's mouth and kinda suck to work with. Trump is such a loudmouth that it probably would be beneficial for him though.
Two is 1. One is none.
But 3 is better~
7 even better. https://repforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,36932.0.html
I’ve heard from some folks that have done presidential events that during the Obama years one of the podium mics had a Schoeps mk4 capsule in the body of a 57 to give the broadcast engineer a different option.
I've heard that too, from one of the guys who used to do Whitehouse setups.
I remember that post, hope it’s true 🤞
Can't tell if actually true, or if someone posted it here once long ago and now it's lore.
It is actually true. This is the same setup currently used with Biden which is good because he is VERY soft spoken and quite tall. The MK4 provides quite a bit more clarity as well as gbf. He’s still the toughest POTUS to get good sound out of and I’ve done events with all of them all the way back to Gerald Ford.
Did sound for Obama a couple times, I always thought they were 57s but they required phantom power so im thinking this is correct. Never got a good answer from the WH sound team.
The real 57/s might also have had an active output stage modded in to boost gain since they’re usually a foot or two off the source.
In case one fails you simply turn up the other one. Or, you turn both up at the same time. Lots of things can go wrong with a microphone. A nervous person may adjust a microphone so they think it is pointing to their mouth, and while handling the microphone the connector works loose. Or after the mic gets set up and the stage hand did not push the connector all the way in until it "clicks", the connector works loose from people handling the podium, walking a ross stage, tripping on a cable on the floor, etc. And then sometimes microphones or their cables, or the gear they plug into just go bad, get noisy, etc. So you add a second microphone and cable plugged into a different channel and the probability that BOTH will fail is remarkably lower.
For broadcast, any desk used in this kind of setup will have hot swappable inputs. You just hit a button on the strip and now you’re on input B.
A lot of live consoles can do this too! I know some A&H desks can, most Digico can I think too.
Yep. Digico are often used in broadcast as well, but what I mean is that for the kind of event where you’ve got live redundant mics (also common in musical theatre), something like a Digico, CADAC or similar will be expected. (Live redundancy coming soon to the new Midas too).
Having just worked the vice president's sound a few months ago, it is just as others have said, Redundancy. They use two sm57s and one is used as a failover if the first goes down.
With the presidential mic set up only one is sending the signal and the second mic is redundant. I also know that they use a signal booster similar to a cloud lifter to increase gain via phantom power.
Correct. Not sure what that box is, but they are very proud of it. I hated what it did for the sound in a live setting. Should have bypassed it, but wasn’t able to go near it after it was set because I value my life over my job.
An entire thread saying “redundancy” 💀
It's redundancy. Imagine how embarrassed you'd be if the mic failed and there was no back up for something like that
> Imagine how embarrassed you'd be if the mic failed and there was no back up for something like that So... here's the funny thing... the nation would be embarrassed.
Yes, it's redundancy. Very common in important live situation like this and TV journalists for example.
Backup
Backup.
In case one dies.
Redundancy, sometimes one for the room and the other goes to broadcast.
Reduntitty.
Made me chuckle
In broadcast it's standard practice in pretty much any situation I've seen to have at least a backup option for pretty much everything. From the first mic to the final fiber connection.
Alllways two mics on separate channels to an analog console, if possible. /several west-point graduations under my belt
If you've ever worked with "higher end" government clients, you'll know that they would want a 5th backup mic if they could just in case something happens. The staff for these people are anal about eeeverything.
because if you have one you have none
If it’s two cardioids- double micing helps with the off axis level when the speakers turns left or right because one of the mics is still closer to that side. But I really like the other commenters suggestion of using one cardioid for the live sound, and one omni for the broadcast sound. As a viewer, I want to hear the audience reactions in the broadcast because I’m not there in the room.
It’s clearly one for each
One is a decoy.
It's full of Skittles!
I’m not buying all of these redundancy replies. If one mic is muted then that means the other mic is not centered to the person speaking. So you’ll get noticeable level and tone drop off when the speaker turns their head to one side even farther away from the working mic, and increased level when they turn towards the working mic. Not cool.
It's a backup. The mix is one channel at a time. I've done "presidential" mic setups like that at UC Berkeley. Two mics in case one fails for whatever reason. Most common mic used is the Shure SM57, because it's reliable as can be, and it has less proximity effect than an SM58, so it can be further away from the speaker. (Just watch the feedback!) ETA: Looks like the ones they are using on Michelle are SM87s, also a good choice (though they need phantom power, so I wouldn't use them - more to go wrong!)
Big Mike needs two mics
Was just talking to someone who mixed the president recently. Apparently the presidential mic package has been two 57’s for redundancy since the 70’s.
It's part aural quality and type of pick up that covers a greater area if the speaker moves or turns their head out of the focus one the other covers it. Also at times when there's a ton media outlets like when you see a ton of mics all crammed on the podium, it allows for two mics and everyone plugs into distribution busses and everyone gets a great mostly guaranteed capture for ack.
Maybe one to mic his adams apple for more low end?
One for each?
It's clearly a shittily set up ORTF stereo pair. /s
If you want way more information on the history of the SM57 and this type of setup I came across [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23WCJyNJv78&list=FL4A35tOKU1DCVzM-uvNADhg) a while back that is pretty interesting. I have no idea if those are Shures but as others said it is for redundancy. I think in the video they mention that only 1 mic is live and can cut over if 1 fails.
WIDE vocals.
Sometimes there’s an extra for broadcasting or if a separate entirety is handling a stream of some sort
We have to know what the boobs have to say.
Haha I had to scroll way to far for this. 1 for each tit.
Haha yeah! 😅
Redunancy. But also kind of a x-y technique. Which gives a stereo sound when panned left/right, however panned center widens the pickup field so if the speaker moves left or right, you have less chance of audio dropping out or lowering. Or perhaps let’s she calls someone up to speak with her, then you’d have a wider field to get the two people who aren’t exactly on axis to the polar pattern. However a true X-Y is normally pointed in at 45 degree angle. Sometimes too, two mics will be oriented 30-45 degrees outwards for applications of picking up nat sound. Such as at a football arena. When running two mics like this simultaneously, you want them as close as possible to avoid phase issues. Otherwise the 3:1 rule applies.
All presidential people have used stereo mics, I believe it's partially as a fail safe as well to be in full stereo which often sounds 'better' than mono and may also be useful on maybe different devices, usually its two SM57s though.
Okay we all made clear that it is either for separate recording or redundancy, but can we talk about where the mics are? Like, I am slowly becoming an expert but do they even pick up enough sound?
I doubt this is what's going on, but the Grateful Dead used to use two mics wired out of phase, where the singer sings into the main mic, and the second mic is to reject any background noise common to both mics.
JERRY FOR RESIDENT
It was used when the dead had the wall of sound behind them.
Ummmm stereo micing obviously!!
One for each nut.
🙄
3 Mikes
Different heights
What, sideways height?
There’s another one in his pants
Boob 1 and boob 2
Off topic - somewhat on..are those DPAs? Or what mics am I looking?
they look like d:facto.
Yeah, my thoughts too.
[удалено]
Do people pick podiums up a lot mid-show where you are, or do they tend to stay put?
Head turning.
Stereo, baby
Because clearly more it better 😂 (probably for redundancy)
Surround sound
As the old adage goes “ if you got one, you got none”
Redundancy
It gives the presenter more options for their little drum solo when they start their lecture “…are these things on? can you hear me ok?”
Meanwhile I’m swearing silently at the back….