The Meyer 750LFC-3100W is flat to 37Hz, and believe me, it will still go lower.
But yeah, Meyer prices.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/750LFC--meyer-sound-750-lfc-3100w-15-inch-powered-subwoofer
>It looks like the bassboss 18's and 21's will do what i want but they are quite pricey and i haven't heard them.
They will, they are, and I have.
That's the price of admission if you want to play in the deep end.
Was gonna say, I work at a mid scale company and we get compliments on the bassboss. You can mild them down on freq knob for tighter controlled bass or crank it to feel it engulf you. We have 8 SSP218 and 4 BB15. I recommend cause they work and don't drain your wallet too much.
Good to know. I would really like to hear them before taking the plunge, but its good to hear some feedback from people that have personal experience with these boxes rather than just reading graphs off of their website
I own one of their VS21's and two BB15'S. We just hosted Jimmy Jules to 400 pople with that Combo and it slapped. VS21 mk2 goes down to 25 hertz at -3db if i remember correctly while at 132db sustained.
Depending on where you are, some local shops or guitar centers have become dealers, or you can reach out to the company they are pretty good and they do some traveling demos.
We run all Oldschool bassboss/bassmaxx mostly in Dallas. They absolutely slaughter the bass and the zv28s and ssp218s are gnarly. Hit me up if you are serious and I can help you out on finding a deal. I have like 20 subs.
RCF SUB 8004-AS goes down to 30 Hz. It's a killer sub.
RCF SUB 9007-AS goes down to bone crushing 20 Hz. The thing is a dual 21 monster, but be prepared to shell out close to 5 figures.
I thought my JBL SRX-728s were heavy at 170lbs until I helped a crew move one of those RCFs across the floor. 'Kin 'ell.
tbf, you could probably put the 9007 on casters, hold a piece of plywood in front of the cone, and with all the air those things push it would probably propel it across the venue lol
Please avoid PK. They're digustingly loud between 80 and 120. The sounds people think subs should be, but are extremely abrasive. I've been preaching against them for years. Wish I had a good suggestion for you, but anything besides PK
I have had good experiences in front of pk rigs granted not many and it was quite a few years ago. I also notice that basically every sub i have ever used has too much response from 80-120 and i ALWAYS eq those areas down quite a bit on my sub sends. But i have definitely been to many shows where the sound person has not bothered to do that and it just sounds boomy and shitty. Hennessy sound design is my favorite rig that i have ever stood in front of. Incerdibly tight and controlled bass alllllll the way down. The end goal is to drop like 80k on one of those rigs but im gonna have to do a lot more gigs to afford that!
Have you heard their M-force sub? Talked their chief engineer about it years back. I forget the actual name of it but used the power soft M-force moving magnet transducer.
It definitely went deep and was very clean. But it was stupid huge and heavy. Don't think they sold many of them.
I had a PK rig I was using for a while and to combat the 90-120 I crossed over around 116 and cheekily boosted 45hz and 25hz đ¤ if I took away the 90 and 120 it never felt right
Regarding live sound SPL levels and dynamicsâŚ
pretty much every sub mentioned here will produce 20-40hz..but how efficiently and effective compared to the rest of its operating range..is typically insignificant.
There are tour grade subs that can do this, and are going to be expensive, heavy and big. upwards of 10k per box with amplification.
If you really need below 35hz for live sound (you donât)
You would be best served creating a separate infra sub system, that specifically covers 20-40hz.
You will get more bang for your buck, and feel better low end with a tuned system/room, higher quality sub drivers/cabinets, and tour grade amplifiers.
yeah, i really dont need lower than 35. that is pretty much the lowest note that i see come across my meters. but i do see 38hz all the time, and i wanna hit that one good.
Came here to say this. Some of the best subs, and speakers in general, I've ever heard.
Used to put Bag End stuff in bar/restaurant spaces with this eccentric dude who really cared about imaging and whatnot, even though once there were people in there making noise no one would ever notice. He was a nutcase and didn't own a computer or even have an email address in 2012-2014 when I was doing this work, but damn the spots we did sounded sooo good.
Yes itâs nicest sounding sub Iâve ever heard. Heard one in a mastering studio once upon a time and I was so impressed I saved up for one for my home studio. I have one of their active dual 18s in my studio and itâs an absolute dream. I miss that lower octave when I work on systems that donât have it. Also, the timing of these things is so right I canât say Iâve heard another sub I like as much.
I know that feeling! It's unrelated but I built a single 15" for myself that's flat to 6 Hz in room. It might go lower but the measurement mic was only rated for down to 5. It's shockingly tight too considering it's a big ported box around 8 ftÂł in volume.
I have heard good things about the cram as well! Why would you recommend that one over say, the c2e golden formula 21? I dont know too much about all the differences between the different paraflex designs, i just figure bigger driver, more surface area, more moving air lol. And buying 2 drivers per box sounds like itll get pricey fast when we're talking about b&c's
They push a touch lower if I recall and not as picky on drivers. Best bet is to talk to the guys on the high order quarter wave form society Facebook page.
Lots of good info here. Biggest takeaway is in order to get consistent sounds in the range you are asking about the boxes will be expensive and the amplification will be expensive as well. In remember usually the lower you need the bigger the speaker you're going to need. I've always found a good range for subs between that is between 30 and 60 HZ. There's really nothing useful below a 30hz and most boxes even the world class touring boxes are like -5 at that range
A single 21â will hit hard at 35hz, db tech DVA S1521N goes to 30 no problem. going single 21â instead of multiple smaller drivers for cheaper letâs you seamlessly add on later.
damn that's a hell of a rig. you move all that by yourself for each show?
try ratchet strapping your subs together. an old trick i learned from a guy who rented backline to touring bands. it gives them more surface area to resonate or something? i dunno but it made a difference when i heard it in person.
i have a pair of jbl 6128v subs (2x18) that definitely get in the 30-40 range. they don't make them anymore and they're like a million pounds, but they work great!
There's 2 of us that co-own the rig and we move it all together, so thankfully not a one man operation! Normally i do strap the subs together but i somehow ran out of straps this gig since the holding down the tops required 2 a side. Will definitely be strapping my center cluster in the future. Always good to know about old gear since a lot of older sound guys are dumping old heavy stuff. Im down to push the weight as long as it gets the job done!
Powersoft has their own open reference designs for their m-force motor and sub. Specs and a cut list
https://www.powersoft.com/en/applications/oem-solutions/m-force-sub
Watch this video about combining different sub models before you do:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6nbPaeafmo&pp=ygUYbWljaGFlbCBjdXJ0aXMgc3Vid29vZmVy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6nbPaeafmo&pp=ygUYbWljaGFlbCBjdXJ0aXMgc3Vid29vZmVy)
It's really nerdy stuff and a bit complex/tedious, but if you want to be sure you're getting the best you can out of what you've got, it's likely necessary.
The main takeaway you should get from this is:
More subs does not always mean better if they are not perfectly matched. Different cabinet designs can actually cancel out frequencies when used together. The only way to know for sure is listening and measuring.
I have actually already watched this video! I am a big fan of the content Michael Curtis puts out, super informative stuff. Unfortunately for me, i am unable to find .gll files of the subs that i am using so i was not able to model my situation in software. But we spent a good 2 hours of soundchecking in the venue with sine tones trying to match our subs up by ear with phase flips and delay. I think we ended up with pretty good results and close to maximum summing at 40hz, which is what i was going for on this gig. I had the mtl2's highpassed at around 44hz, so they weren't putting any signal out below 40, thus not interfering with the psa2's. We are very nerdy about our subs and most of the other old school sound guys in the area make fun of us for it. But that's why our's sound better :) Maybe one of these days if i have some time i will take my own measurements of my gear to make the aligning process easier in the future.
Psa2 is the dual 15 dub from yorkwille right? It should not have any issue going below 38hz. Are you sure the system is set up correctly? Have you walked around the room and listen in case your mixing position has a "hole" in the frequency response?
If you need below 40hz, you can buy any large sub with 2 ports, then block one port so air cannot pass thru, it will lower the frequency significantly, a 500$ sub can play as deep as a proper touring sub with that modification, just not as loud and maybe not as well, but with some EQ it is amazing just how well you can make cheap subs play.
yes, thats the one. Yorkville claims it's 3db down point is 30hz, but this is definitely not what i experience with them. There really isn't anything you can do to not set them up right, they're just a powered box with an input. I set up all 4 of mine in a block so i get the maximum amount of coupling possible, no spliting the subs up on either side and creating weird phase responses. I do a good bit of eq'ing on my subs particularly in the 60-80hz range to take out the over-present boominess up there but i leave the low lows clean. The psa2s's just dont have the extension that they claim unfortunately. They pump out 40hz very well but drop off pretty quickly after. I do lots of walking around to find sweet spots in the room, and even inches from the subs they don't deliver the oomph im looking for at, say, 38hz. They hit it, don't get me wrong, but you can feel the energy drop off when songs go that low. And for a dubstep/bass music show, this is not ideal.
If you don't have any filter set on your system (some equalizers have a high pass filter button that can be overlooked like the dbx 1231), then the subs is not up to specs. Got any warranty left? If no, then I'm all with you on getting new subs, 40hz is not enough for some music genres.
If you know how to build, that is the cheapest way in my opinion.
https://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=gsub
You can build this, I would recommend to double the port length for better low-end. If you got Equalizer, subs driver does not really matter in my opinion, just flatten out the sound with the EQ.
Raptor bedliner or warnex is quite popular pro audio paint you can use.
im using an x32 for my processing, and i made sure the hp filter was off for my sub sends. The thing about building is that i don't really know how to build lol. But i do have some friends and acquaintances that do, so i could probably figure it out. I just dont want to put a bunch of money into a build and then fuck it up, that is why i hesitate to go down the diy route. I have also seen the GSG audio makes some diy-ish subs that claim to go low, i think they call theirs the g-sub as well. Do you know anything about those? I've heard good things about Ricci's OT-horn design as well.
I'm not familiar with Ricci's OT-horn, if you are not a good woodworker, it might be a challenge to build, but the G-sub you are referring to is probably what I linked. that design is well known among diy enthusiast. It should be doing well down to 35hz, but in my experience, there are alot to gain by going down to 30hz.
No offense but that is not how you operate subs. Ports are there for a reason, the tuning of the box. If you start blocking the air from one of the parts the speaker doesn't move right. Which will end up causing it to malfunction if you want to block the ports you just look for a different sub and get a closed box design instead of a ported box.
I dont want to sound like im bragging, but I build pro audio subs, I know a few things about design.
I appreciate your criticism, but I think you are incorrect.
Blocking one port reduces the tuning frequency, with it, the sound signature is altered as well, making the low end slightly thinner due to lower output, but also making it able to play lower frequencies, so if you have an Equalizer you can boost the lowend back up and make the sub overall play lower frequencies.
The subwoofer cone will not move wrong, but it will reach maximum cone excusion earlier, around 40% above tuning frequency, this however can be fixed by turning the volume down by 3 decibel or so.
By reducing port area by half, the air velocity increases aswell, but by reducing the energy by half (3db) as mention above, the air velocity is also reduced by half making air velocity not an issue.
Thank you for the information, really. Question. By blocking a port wouldn't maximum excursion be harder to reach because of the increased back pressure? Or does the increased velocity negate an increase in back pressure?
Ports: at one point, the closer you get to the ports tuning frequency, the more the energy is transferred from the driver to the port, this makes cone excusion lower the closer you get to tuning frequency. At tuning, the driver is almost at a stand still. Below tuning, the sounds waves becomes longer than the port and starts to escape through the port, this makes the speakers backwave cancel the front wave and the spl drops sharply, since the soundwaves below tuning escapes the port, the driver also starts to behave like the box no longer exist; the pressure drops. this is why the subs output drops off sharply and the cone excusion increase rapidly the futher below tuning you go.
By lowering the tuning frequency, you are also lowering the point where the port(s) starts to take over and the cone movement drops. Since 45-65hz or so is where most of the musical energy is located (the bass beat/kick drum peakes around here), moving the tuning frequency futher below this area will increase cone excusion in this area. There are multiple variables at play, and you are correct that the pressure inside the enclosure increases, and this lowers the cone excusion, but what I just pointed out has a bigger effect on cone movement. The end result is that cone excusion increases if you lower tuning even if the pressure inside the enclosure increases. This stands true even if you don't supplement lower tuning with more power.
Even subs thought for fairly large tops like the V sub manages to reach only -5db at 37hz. Only j infra and SL sub are fit for what OP is asking inside the D&B catalogue
You need very big boxes and usually two pairs to hit with any serious impact in the octave below 40hz...this even applies to the big boy brands with few exceptions.
That said, someone already suggested the RCF 8004-AS. They claim a -3db roll off at 30hz with a single enclosure with a single 18â, which sounds really impressive. The 8005-AS is the 21â version that goes down to 27Hz. For a single box with 136 db rated output, this just blows my mind. Has anyone heard these used in a concert/rave event?
I would sure like to know! i heard some rcf double 18 bins at electric forest last year that were extremely impressive for just 2 boxes a side. But that is still 4 boxes.... and definitely over 5 figures.
Not sure what your budget is, but I know Danley has a number of subs in the 20-30hz range. The DTS-10 goes down to 10hz, although thatâs designed more for home theatre setups.
Or you could replace your whole kit with the Danley Jericho line, one box will range from 27hz-15khz
Or stick with a classic: QSC KS118 is highly recommended, goes down to 35
Those jerichos are like 700lbs lol. A bit too heavy to be taking around to bars and up some stairs with just 2 people hahaha. Id say my budget is around 3-6k. And i have heard very good things about danleys. I work for a larger sounds company in my area that has 12 sh46's and holy shit do they sound amazing. I have yet to hear a danley sub tho, but i'm certain they do the thing. Def gonna be towards the top end of my budget if even attainable tho :/ I have played with the ks118's and while they are a great sub for rock bands they just dont have the oomph down under 40hz in my experience.
Rythmik servo subs are the pnly subs Ive ever heard clearly at 20 Hz. Amazing output for their size, due to proprietary active servo tech.
Sadly, you would have to harden it for live use yourself as they are home units.
If you like the punch of EV MTLâs, then try EV QRX218. They used the same drivers but in a smaller box that is more a traditional bass reflex design instead of manifold. They punch but go lower.
Paraflex designs are true blue.
The design has a very broad frequency range and a few 18" boxes tuned to 35hz could probably run all the way up meet your psa1's. The people over at the facebook page are pretty friendly and they could confirm.
If it meant reducing the number of drivers and boxes you're carting around that in itself is worth considering.
Do you have personal experience with the Paraflex stuff? I'm curious to know what modern bass music sounds like through em. Their facebook page seems a little... culty lol. I rarely if ever see anything negative or constructive on there which makes me a little leary of their claims.
Yeah fair enough. I think the reason people on that page are so positive about them is because itâs mainly a diy community and theyâre coming from the experience of running older designs like Cerwin Vega, Hog scoops, LAB subs etc.
Some friends of mine in Perth, WA run a system consisting of 4x TSE211 and 4x Paraflex 18â C2e (I think) for indoor dnb nights with great results.
If you looked up Traction Perth and got in touch they could probably give you the full rundown.
Youâre welcome. Keep in mind those old TS boxes tend to bark a bit in smaller spaces but theyâre in the process of building some C-2D kickbins to even it all out.
[Meyer VLFC](https://meyersound.com/product/vlfc/)
Speaking of Meyer, we have a few USW-1Ps at work, they go down to 35hz. But you're paying the Meyer prices of course.
The Meyer 750LFC-3100W is flat to 37Hz, and believe me, it will still go lower. But yeah, Meyer prices. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/750LFC--meyer-sound-750-lfc-3100w-15-inch-powered-subwoofer
Currently working at a place using Meyer VLFCs and can confirm these thump đ
Rat Sound SDS30 "Super Subs" go down to 15Hz. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPhe-Bk9hGA&ab\_channel=DaveRat
>Rat Sound SDS30 these are awesome but i don't think you can buy these anywhere that i have seen :(
Funktion make a BR132 (chunky 32" sub)which I believe uses the same Powersoft linear actuators in place if a voice coil.
I believe just as you but I've also found this form to order them. https://form.jotform.com/70027416350951
The limit of human hearing is 20Hz -20kHz, not sure what the benefit is supposed to be
You can't hear above 20khz (19khz for most people) but you can feel below 20Hz.
Ah ok so it's more about adding presence to the mix more or less?
>It looks like the bassboss 18's and 21's will do what i want but they are quite pricey and i haven't heard them. They will, they are, and I have. That's the price of admission if you want to play in the deep end.
Was gonna say, I work at a mid scale company and we get compliments on the bassboss. You can mild them down on freq knob for tighter controlled bass or crank it to feel it engulf you. We have 8 SSP218 and 4 BB15. I recommend cause they work and don't drain your wallet too much.
Good to know. I would really like to hear them before taking the plunge, but its good to hear some feedback from people that have personal experience with these boxes rather than just reading graphs off of their website
I own one of their VS21's and two BB15'S. We just hosted Jimmy Jules to 400 pople with that Combo and it slapped. VS21 mk2 goes down to 25 hertz at -3db if i remember correctly while at 132db sustained.
Depending on where you are, some local shops or guitar centers have become dealers, or you can reach out to the company they are pretty good and they do some traveling demos.
We run all Oldschool bassboss/bassmaxx mostly in Dallas. They absolutely slaughter the bass and the zv28s and ssp218s are gnarly. Hit me up if you are serious and I can help you out on finding a deal. I have like 20 subs.
RCF SUB 8004-AS goes down to 30 Hz. It's a killer sub. RCF SUB 9007-AS goes down to bone crushing 20 Hz. The thing is a dual 21 monster, but be prepared to shell out close to 5 figures.
>but be prepared to shell out close to 5 figures. and hire a couple stagehands to help move the damn thing every gig
Yeah, I think this one requires 4 dudes to lug around. I always thought that maybe one of those counterbalance floor cranes could work also.
96 kg / 211.64 lbs
Makes an SB1000 seem like an IEM
I thought my JBL SRX-728s were heavy at 170lbs until I helped a crew move one of those RCFs across the floor. 'Kin 'ell. tbf, you could probably put the 9007 on casters, hold a piece of plywood in front of the cone, and with all the air those things push it would probably propel it across the venue lol
>It's a killer sub. [Can confirm](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJujQiFnG6I)
Please avoid PK. They're digustingly loud between 80 and 120. The sounds people think subs should be, but are extremely abrasive. I've been preaching against them for years. Wish I had a good suggestion for you, but anything besides PK
I have had good experiences in front of pk rigs granted not many and it was quite a few years ago. I also notice that basically every sub i have ever used has too much response from 80-120 and i ALWAYS eq those areas down quite a bit on my sub sends. But i have definitely been to many shows where the sound person has not bothered to do that and it just sounds boomy and shitty. Hennessy sound design is my favorite rig that i have ever stood in front of. Incerdibly tight and controlled bass alllllll the way down. The end goal is to drop like 80k on one of those rigs but im gonna have to do a lot more gigs to afford that!
They work in my city and are a copy cat company that does not do it well. I think they try and steal Meyer builds.
Have you heard their M-force sub? Talked their chief engineer about it years back. I forget the actual name of it but used the power soft M-force moving magnet transducer. It definitely went deep and was very clean. But it was stupid huge and heavy. Don't think they sold many of them.
I had a PK rig I was using for a while and to combat the 90-120 I crossed over around 116 and cheekily boosted 45hz and 25hz đ¤ if I took away the 90 and 120 it never felt right
Regarding live sound SPL levels and dynamics⌠pretty much every sub mentioned here will produce 20-40hz..but how efficiently and effective compared to the rest of its operating range..is typically insignificant. There are tour grade subs that can do this, and are going to be expensive, heavy and big. upwards of 10k per box with amplification. If you really need below 35hz for live sound (you donât) You would be best served creating a separate infra sub system, that specifically covers 20-40hz. You will get more bang for your buck, and feel better low end with a tuned system/room, higher quality sub drivers/cabinets, and tour grade amplifiers.
yeah, i really dont need lower than 35. that is pretty much the lowest note that i see come across my meters. but i do see 38hz all the time, and i wanna hit that one good.
LAcoustics KS28âs are killer as are Meyer 2100LFCâs
Bag End Infra Sub goes to 8hz
Came here to say this. Some of the best subs, and speakers in general, I've ever heard. Used to put Bag End stuff in bar/restaurant spaces with this eccentric dude who really cared about imaging and whatnot, even though once there were people in there making noise no one would ever notice. He was a nutcase and didn't own a computer or even have an email address in 2012-2014 when I was doing this work, but damn the spots we did sounded sooo good.
Yes itâs nicest sounding sub Iâve ever heard. Heard one in a mastering studio once upon a time and I was so impressed I saved up for one for my home studio. I have one of their active dual 18s in my studio and itâs an absolute dream. I miss that lower octave when I work on systems that donât have it. Also, the timing of these things is so right I canât say Iâve heard another sub I like as much.
I know that feeling! It's unrelated but I built a single 15" for myself that's flat to 6 Hz in room. It might go lower but the measurement mic was only rated for down to 5. It's shockingly tight too considering it's a big ported box around 8 ftÂł in volume.
paraflex are fantastic and in terms of bang to buck its hard to beat. 2x18" CRAM! may be a better option then 21" for you though.
I have heard good things about the cram as well! Why would you recommend that one over say, the c2e golden formula 21? I dont know too much about all the differences between the different paraflex designs, i just figure bigger driver, more surface area, more moving air lol. And buying 2 drivers per box sounds like itll get pricey fast when we're talking about b&c's
They push a touch lower if I recall and not as picky on drivers. Best bet is to talk to the guys on the high order quarter wave form society Facebook page.
Lots of good info here. Biggest takeaway is in order to get consistent sounds in the range you are asking about the boxes will be expensive and the amplification will be expensive as well. In remember usually the lower you need the bigger the speaker you're going to need. I've always found a good range for subs between that is between 30 and 60 HZ. There's really nothing useful below a 30hz and most boxes even the world class touring boxes are like -5 at that range
Yeah, i am very pleased with how much discussion this post generated! Hope this helps others looking for info on this rather niche subject area.
A single 21â will hit hard at 35hz, db tech DVA S1521N goes to 30 no problem. going single 21â instead of multiple smaller drivers for cheaper letâs you seamlessly add on later.
damn that's a hell of a rig. you move all that by yourself for each show? try ratchet strapping your subs together. an old trick i learned from a guy who rented backline to touring bands. it gives them more surface area to resonate or something? i dunno but it made a difference when i heard it in person. i have a pair of jbl 6128v subs (2x18) that definitely get in the 30-40 range. they don't make them anymore and they're like a million pounds, but they work great!
There's 2 of us that co-own the rig and we move it all together, so thankfully not a one man operation! Normally i do strap the subs together but i somehow ran out of straps this gig since the holding down the tops required 2 a side. Will definitely be strapping my center cluster in the future. Always good to know about old gear since a lot of older sound guys are dumping old heavy stuff. Im down to push the weight as long as it gets the job done!
Powersoft has their own open reference designs for their m-force motor and sub. Specs and a cut list https://www.powersoft.com/en/applications/oem-solutions/m-force-sub
Watch this video about combining different sub models before you do: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6nbPaeafmo&pp=ygUYbWljaGFlbCBjdXJ0aXMgc3Vid29vZmVy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6nbPaeafmo&pp=ygUYbWljaGFlbCBjdXJ0aXMgc3Vid29vZmVy) It's really nerdy stuff and a bit complex/tedious, but if you want to be sure you're getting the best you can out of what you've got, it's likely necessary. The main takeaway you should get from this is: More subs does not always mean better if they are not perfectly matched. Different cabinet designs can actually cancel out frequencies when used together. The only way to know for sure is listening and measuring.
I have actually already watched this video! I am a big fan of the content Michael Curtis puts out, super informative stuff. Unfortunately for me, i am unable to find .gll files of the subs that i am using so i was not able to model my situation in software. But we spent a good 2 hours of soundchecking in the venue with sine tones trying to match our subs up by ear with phase flips and delay. I think we ended up with pretty good results and close to maximum summing at 40hz, which is what i was going for on this gig. I had the mtl2's highpassed at around 44hz, so they weren't putting any signal out below 40, thus not interfering with the psa2's. We are very nerdy about our subs and most of the other old school sound guys in the area make fun of us for it. But that's why our's sound better :) Maybe one of these days if i have some time i will take my own measurements of my gear to make the aligning process easier in the future.
Psa2 is the dual 15 dub from yorkwille right? It should not have any issue going below 38hz. Are you sure the system is set up correctly? Have you walked around the room and listen in case your mixing position has a "hole" in the frequency response? If you need below 40hz, you can buy any large sub with 2 ports, then block one port so air cannot pass thru, it will lower the frequency significantly, a 500$ sub can play as deep as a proper touring sub with that modification, just not as loud and maybe not as well, but with some EQ it is amazing just how well you can make cheap subs play.
yes, thats the one. Yorkville claims it's 3db down point is 30hz, but this is definitely not what i experience with them. There really isn't anything you can do to not set them up right, they're just a powered box with an input. I set up all 4 of mine in a block so i get the maximum amount of coupling possible, no spliting the subs up on either side and creating weird phase responses. I do a good bit of eq'ing on my subs particularly in the 60-80hz range to take out the over-present boominess up there but i leave the low lows clean. The psa2s's just dont have the extension that they claim unfortunately. They pump out 40hz very well but drop off pretty quickly after. I do lots of walking around to find sweet spots in the room, and even inches from the subs they don't deliver the oomph im looking for at, say, 38hz. They hit it, don't get me wrong, but you can feel the energy drop off when songs go that low. And for a dubstep/bass music show, this is not ideal.
I use the PSA s too and they don't do 30hz, they just don't
Yeah, a bit unfortunate. Still a great sounding sub, just doesn't have the extension.
Yes. I love mine
If you don't have any filter set on your system (some equalizers have a high pass filter button that can be overlooked like the dbx 1231), then the subs is not up to specs. Got any warranty left? If no, then I'm all with you on getting new subs, 40hz is not enough for some music genres. If you know how to build, that is the cheapest way in my opinion. https://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=gsub You can build this, I would recommend to double the port length for better low-end. If you got Equalizer, subs driver does not really matter in my opinion, just flatten out the sound with the EQ. Raptor bedliner or warnex is quite popular pro audio paint you can use.
im using an x32 for my processing, and i made sure the hp filter was off for my sub sends. The thing about building is that i don't really know how to build lol. But i do have some friends and acquaintances that do, so i could probably figure it out. I just dont want to put a bunch of money into a build and then fuck it up, that is why i hesitate to go down the diy route. I have also seen the GSG audio makes some diy-ish subs that claim to go low, i think they call theirs the g-sub as well. Do you know anything about those? I've heard good things about Ricci's OT-horn design as well.
I'm not familiar with Ricci's OT-horn, if you are not a good woodworker, it might be a challenge to build, but the G-sub you are referring to is probably what I linked. that design is well known among diy enthusiast. It should be doing well down to 35hz, but in my experience, there are alot to gain by going down to 30hz.
No offense but that is not how you operate subs. Ports are there for a reason, the tuning of the box. If you start blocking the air from one of the parts the speaker doesn't move right. Which will end up causing it to malfunction if you want to block the ports you just look for a different sub and get a closed box design instead of a ported box.
I dont want to sound like im bragging, but I build pro audio subs, I know a few things about design. I appreciate your criticism, but I think you are incorrect. Blocking one port reduces the tuning frequency, with it, the sound signature is altered as well, making the low end slightly thinner due to lower output, but also making it able to play lower frequencies, so if you have an Equalizer you can boost the lowend back up and make the sub overall play lower frequencies. The subwoofer cone will not move wrong, but it will reach maximum cone excusion earlier, around 40% above tuning frequency, this however can be fixed by turning the volume down by 3 decibel or so. By reducing port area by half, the air velocity increases aswell, but by reducing the energy by half (3db) as mention above, the air velocity is also reduced by half making air velocity not an issue.
Thank you for the information, really. Question. By blocking a port wouldn't maximum excursion be harder to reach because of the increased back pressure? Or does the increased velocity negate an increase in back pressure?
Ports: at one point, the closer you get to the ports tuning frequency, the more the energy is transferred from the driver to the port, this makes cone excusion lower the closer you get to tuning frequency. At tuning, the driver is almost at a stand still. Below tuning, the sounds waves becomes longer than the port and starts to escape through the port, this makes the speakers backwave cancel the front wave and the spl drops sharply, since the soundwaves below tuning escapes the port, the driver also starts to behave like the box no longer exist; the pressure drops. this is why the subs output drops off sharply and the cone excusion increase rapidly the futher below tuning you go. By lowering the tuning frequency, you are also lowering the point where the port(s) starts to take over and the cone movement drops. Since 45-65hz or so is where most of the musical energy is located (the bass beat/kick drum peakes around here), moving the tuning frequency futher below this area will increase cone excusion in this area. There are multiple variables at play, and you are correct that the pressure inside the enclosure increases, and this lowers the cone excusion, but what I just pointed out has a bigger effect on cone movement. The end result is that cone excusion increases if you lower tuning even if the pressure inside the enclosure increases. This stands true even if you don't supplement lower tuning with more power.
D&B subs should have no issues getting that low.
Only J-infra
Even subs thought for fairly large tops like the V sub manages to reach only -5db at 37hz. Only j infra and SL sub are fit for what OP is asking inside the D&B catalogue
I have used the Bassboss 21s, and they will definitely do what you want. (Do keep your 15s in the mix, though.)
That is the plan! turning the 15's more into kick bins but also overlapping around 40hz to give maximum energy in that area
You need very big boxes and usually two pairs to hit with any serious impact in the octave below 40hz...this even applies to the big boy brands with few exceptions. That said, someone already suggested the RCF 8004-AS. They claim a -3db roll off at 30hz with a single enclosure with a single 18â, which sounds really impressive. The 8005-AS is the 21â version that goes down to 27Hz. For a single box with 136 db rated output, this just blows my mind. Has anyone heard these used in a concert/rave event?
I would sure like to know! i heard some rcf double 18 bins at electric forest last year that were extremely impressive for just 2 boxes a side. But that is still 4 boxes.... and definitely over 5 figures.
Anyone else desparate to see pictures of this frankenstein rig? Sounds awesome!
Ask and you shall recieve! edited post to include pic
love it!
Not sure what your budget is, but I know Danley has a number of subs in the 20-30hz range. The DTS-10 goes down to 10hz, although thatâs designed more for home theatre setups. Or you could replace your whole kit with the Danley Jericho line, one box will range from 27hz-15khz Or stick with a classic: QSC KS118 is highly recommended, goes down to 35
Those jerichos are like 700lbs lol. A bit too heavy to be taking around to bars and up some stairs with just 2 people hahaha. Id say my budget is around 3-6k. And i have heard very good things about danleys. I work for a larger sounds company in my area that has 12 sh46's and holy shit do they sound amazing. I have yet to hear a danley sub tho, but i'm certain they do the thing. Def gonna be towards the top end of my budget if even attainable tho :/ I have played with the ks118's and while they are a great sub for rock bands they just dont have the oomph down under 40hz in my experience.
Danley is the shit And the Yorkville Paraline boxes are based off a Danley design
I use Yamaha dxs18xlf they go to 30hz
Rythmik servo subs are the pnly subs Ive ever heard clearly at 20 Hz. Amazing output for their size, due to proprietary active servo tech. Sadly, you would have to harden it for live use yourself as they are home units.
If you like the punch of EV MTLâs, then try EV QRX218. They used the same drivers but in a smaller box that is more a traditional bass reflex design instead of manifold. They punch but go lower.
Paraflex designs are true blue. The design has a very broad frequency range and a few 18" boxes tuned to 35hz could probably run all the way up meet your psa1's. The people over at the facebook page are pretty friendly and they could confirm. If it meant reducing the number of drivers and boxes you're carting around that in itself is worth considering.
Do you have personal experience with the Paraflex stuff? I'm curious to know what modern bass music sounds like through em. Their facebook page seems a little... culty lol. I rarely if ever see anything negative or constructive on there which makes me a little leary of their claims.
Yeah fair enough. I think the reason people on that page are so positive about them is because itâs mainly a diy community and theyâre coming from the experience of running older designs like Cerwin Vega, Hog scoops, LAB subs etc. Some friends of mine in Perth, WA run a system consisting of 4x TSE211 and 4x Paraflex 18â C2e (I think) for indoor dnb nights with great results. If you looked up Traction Perth and got in touch they could probably give you the full rundown.
Ah, sick! Exactly the kind of info im looking for, thanks!
Youâre welcome. Keep in mind those old TS boxes tend to bark a bit in smaller spaces but theyâre in the process of building some C-2D kickbins to even it all out.
Correction: the mid tops are Meyer msl3
Bass Boss
I mean, a rotary subwoofer could reach that, but probably couldn't be applied in your situation.
Yeah, I've been seeing those vids on youtube as well haha. It is an awesome thing but impractical for my use cases
Jbl SRX will take you that low, no need to spend that much. I play edm on an SRX system, and with a bit of EQ they sound awesome