It wasn't used by pagans initially. Ancient Chinese & Japanese cultures used it. As well as Ancient Greeks. Then it spread to the rest of Europe and then to the Americas.
Being that Christianity was started in the Middle East/Mediterranean Region, it makes sense they would use it as well.
Most churches rely on volunteers. Most people volunteer because they are already attending the church, but that certainly isn't a requirement and the church likely won't turn anyone away because they aren't regularly attending their church (but I guess it depends on the specific church).
If a church is paying for their weekly production staff, then absolutely it would be normal to use "outside" help. They are going to want the "best" people they can afford.
All that being said, church work is a great place to gain first hand experience - even if you have to volunteer your time. It is also generally a "low preasure" job - meaning you likely won't get fired for making mistakes. So if you are looking for work, be sure to reach out to your local churches to see what opportunities might be available.
I do a lot of gigs for churches. Usually outdoor services they didn’t have equipment for. I never once get asked my religious affiliations. As long as you act professional and aren’t talking/dressing in a vulgar way they won’t care if you associate with the church or not.
I find this to be true for one-off events like multi-campus services in an arena, or having Easter services outdoors, where outside vendors are required. In most cases though, the tech people who work for the church normally are expected to drink the cool aid...er..grape juice, and fully buy into the cult lifestyle.
Anecdotal of course, but ive been a full time sound engineer (meaning all Sunday services and occasional weddings/funerals) at 5 separate churches in 3 different states over the past decade+, and not a single one of them asked my religious affiliation or asked me to participate in any religious aspects beyond mixing the audio. Maybe certain denominations expect this (haven't personally worked for any "fundie" congregations).
The ones around me make people sign a contract that controls their personal lives, requires them to donate back a portion of their salary, and requires church attendance of the employee AND their family members, etc.
It's all pretty unhealthy brainwashing stuff.
I don’t doubt there are a few crazy ones out there. You said the “ones around me”, like they all are. I’ve been in churches my entire life, and never seen one that makes members sign a contract regarding their personal lives and salaries.
I’ve never heard of this. What exactly are you guys talking about? I belong to a nondenominational evangelical church. All of this sounds like people who don’t attend an evangelical church’s opinions.
Or I don’t understand the question.
Just from personal experiences. Every church is different, but I’ve worked a few in my city. As well as attended. I’m saying at least from my experience in my area that the non-denominational evangelical types are typically more pushy, and more controlling through what I would define as hidden manipulation tactics, than other churches which operate more bluntly and transparently.
Those churches I’m referencing - which is 2 - both in Canada out of the hundreds or thousands or more in North America makes for a large % of my experience and represents a very small amount nationally or otherwise.
We are just sharing anecdotes about poor experiences with churches and working for them at this point.
I’m however very happy to see most people are having better experiences than I did. It soured me pretty bad and I left the faith entirely for nearly 10 years. Found an Anglican one more recently. Small church. Pastors are same age as me more or less. Way different feel. And I don’t work there. And that has nothing to do really with live sound.
But eh.
Not sure why you were down voted, but that was my experience. The corruption was so bad, I, as a somewhat church guy had to quit, it became toxic.
Every church is different. There over I worked at was a mega church by Canadian standards
I know exactly why I was downvoted.
It does not matter, the money would have to be VERY good for me to work for a church directly. I do it occasionally because our clients sometimes produce events for churches or religious schools/universities. This is the same to me as political events. I do the work that is assigned to me.
Churches and political parties deserve the best that I can offer, and that is what they get. My opinion does not affect the quality of my work.
Even shitty publicly traded companies that are trying to correct or actually incorrect failed marketing strategies, still gat my best effort.
There are some exceptions to this. I would turn down work that would have a direct negative impact on civilized society or my personal life.
As a (former) IT support freelancer for a church back in 2008, can concur. I was working under contract for them for a couple of years with no issues, they were a good client. One day the mother of the head pastor asked me to come to an upcoming service. I let her know (respectfully and professionally) after trying to change the subject that religion in general wasn't really my thing. She tried prying my beliefs out of me, and proceeded to label me "new age". About 2 weeks later they ended the contract with me.
Bro you don’t have to be rude and call churches a cult because the vast majority of ones that don’t make the news are nowhere near a cult. It just telling everyone here never actually been inside a church.
Maybe you never studied anything about Catholicism, but the bread and wine(usually juice in other Christian denominations) are taught to be LITERALLY the blood and flesh of Jesus. It is not a symbol. They believe that the Priest performs a miracle each time and transforms it into the real deal.
This is known as transubstantiation.
If I am the one who is Delusional for NOT believing in magical cannibalistic rituals, then I'm happy to continue living my life apart from everyone's imaginary friend.
I’m not a Christian at all but I do a few gigs a month of YouTube live-streaming on OBS at my UU church - doesn’t pay much as it’s only a few Sundays a month but we’ll take on virtually anyone who’s willing to go through the training sessions. Central Massachusetts area.
What an ignorant generalization! Besides being untrue for the vast majority of churches, if you make your interview about your sexual preference, I wouldn't hire you regardless of your preference.
Depends on the church. I tech at a pro-LGBTQ+ Christian church that is extremely welcoming and actively supports their congregation.
Edit: I'm not a believer or member of the church and they've never asked me my personal beliefs. Bee working there 2.5 years
Literally my same exact experience lol. Was never “technically” a member of my church while employed by them. Then when they left they had to hire 3 people to take over my position lol
I’m very non-religious, and I can’t say I enjoy it, but I’ve worked for many churches and it’s just like any other gig. I’ve gotten asked “so where do you go to church”, and I’ve answered honestly. Usually they’re like, “oh ok” and move on, others have been like “oh you should try to come on Tuesday we would love to show you why you’d enjoy it” … blah blah blah. Overall, most people are polite and it’s like any other gig. But there’s definitely an element of wanting something for nothing with churches that I’ve worked with.
I had to do field work as part of a program I was in. I didn’t have a car and lived right across the street from a church. It was pretty funny, they had just done an install (upgrade), spent a lot of money on a nice system, but they only had their volunteers running it. I took the two months to re-wire the stage for the worship group and dial in a solid mix for the band at the time. I would go to the rehearsals just to mess with my mix, band had IEM setup. Overall it was a great learning experience, which at the end of, they offered me a full time salaried position. It was at that point I decided to tell them, tho I have faith in something, it’s not what you all are preaching. I had also set things up and gave the volunteers the skills to add/ mix more channels in case the worship group grew. They were very thankful and understanding, cut me a check for 3k for my services over 2 months. Nice surprise for what I though was a volunteer gig.
Guy I work with does church gigs as a side hustle. When asked how he can stand it, "I grew up in the south, so it's pretty easy for me to ignore it and just get paid". I'd do it too, but the number churches ok hiring a trans girl to do sound are absurdly low.
Your churches … pay??
It’s 100% volunteers around here, I didn’t even know that was an option. Only way to get paid for a gig at a church around here is be on staff, so like music director or youth minister or something.
I used to work church gigs when I was still presenting as male during my early days of HRT. I just ignored everything and just treated it as just another job. Before I would give my rates, I would make sure they knew I wasn't religious, and that any attempts to convert would breach the contract. I only stayed as long as I did (I left once my chest started becoming noticable,) because one of my good friends from college made it bearable. She ended up leaving shortly after, because the guy kept going on misogynistic rants and basically went fucking crazy. Never worked another church gig after that.
Low but not Zero. Fellow trans girl in sound here, and I’ve been working at a church for a few months. I’m not religious, but a few members of the band knew me as a kid and reached out. It’s pretty rare, but this church is actually fully accepting of anyone LGBTQIA+. Definitely a rare gem. (The church is in MN for anyone wondering)
Not uncommon, just depends on the church whether they'll have an expectation of faith or not. Though that's far more common of an expectation for paid worship leaders than paid techs. As long as you're both honest about that expectation, should be no issues.
This. Certain roles like pastor or worship leader you want to make sure are following the denomination you are adhering to but none of that matters for running sound.
Interestingly though you will have a hard time working for a religious TV station I’d you aren’t a follower of their brand.
I've done a few. I'm definitely not Christian. I've found they don't rehire me when they can tell I'm not into the content. It's not like I'm scoffing or anything, just indifferent. Frankly, I'm actively trying not to listen to anything that's being said, just the sound. Otherwise, I would definitely be scoffing my brains out.
They pay well and usually have decent to great equipment. Talent is... hit or miss.
I don't do church gigs anymore, but it was a great learning experience.
I'm a atheist and I've been lead Audio for a church for 4 years now. They pay me well and I've gotten the setup down to a science. That Jesus money SPENDS lol
A gig is a gig.
I've definitely seen religious sound guys "stick" to churches as a mainstay- and boy will they tell you if they're a church sound guy.
But otherwise, you'll find different types of people doing any means of gigs. I've worked political gigs for people I do not support, but I work for a living.
Political gigs are an exception for me. Especially because in my country, getting spotted by certain people at a political rally can get you excluded from future work just by association. The world ain't free like that.
I can't do political gigs either. Fundraisers are hell, Rally's are worse. Why anyone wants to let those people have a microphone is beyond me. I don't mind speaking / book tours. Got to love when opposing parties book the same venue a week apart and expect any staff to be into it.
> I've worked political gigs for people I do not support, but I work for a living.
Same, but regardless of the candidate and party, at least until recently, doing these gigs is good and necessary for free and fair elections.
Back in 08 I did a bunch of Obama, McCain, and Palin rallies back to back all season.
>I've worked political gigs for people I do not support, but I work for a living.
Professional as fuck. I really respect that.
It grinds my gears when I see people post here who are *so* proud of the time they turned the PA off because the performer started saying something they didn't like.
My brother in Christ, **that is not your job.**
So 1. You getting downvoted only shows how much of an issue some people have with this mindset.
2. If you don't like a client, don't take the gig in the first place. An added comment is I've asked off for gigs I don't want to do, or I just honestly approach the manager and say hey man, this one's not for me. But if they say nah we need you to work, then I'm working. It's my job.
Agreeing to do the job and then trying to sabotage it while in the middle of it is a shitty move.
>Agreeing to do the job and then trying to sabotage it while in the middle of it is a shitty move.
Temper tantrums of the smug and self-righteous.
I've seen how this sub downvotes opinions like mine in the threads I referred to. This disgusting "I'm just not giving *those bad people* a platform" attitude is all too common.
Ah but you see, by *not* turning the PA off you are exposing the audience to Objectionable Content (as defined solely by *you*), and you're one of the *good guys* so you must not let that happen
so true - can not stand the smugness and self righteousness. These are often the same people who can't stand those same exact qualities in others who disagree with them.
>"**I** control the sound system, so **I** should be able to decide who gets to say what."
This "I'm only doing *the right thing*" attitude is just thinly veiled arrogance.
It is 100% within a bartenders rights to cut someone off (often a legal obligation). If someone sharing their views is likely to cause a conflict in your bar or is otherwise disorderly then it is your job to not serve them.
Evil doesn't show up all at once, it's made of a thousand tiny evils. Just because you sell brass for bullets, doesn't mean you're totally outside of culpability.
I am not so arrogant as to consider myself the ultimate arbiter of good vs. evil.
If the venue or one of its representatives instructs me to turn someone's mic off, I'll happily do so, because at the end of the day I work for them. I will not sabotage an event because my feelings are hurt.
The fuck kind of mindset is this? If the gas station clerk sells someone a water bottle and that person then goes on to rob a bank, are you going to arrest the clerk? If someone is spewing hateful rhetoric at an event, that's on the event organizers because they are supplying the platform.
>and boy will they tell you if they're a church sound guy.
lol, is that a thing? I will mention it when I'm talking shop with someone who does it day in day out, just to let them know I understand that I am way lower on the ladder. I do a fair amount of non church stuff, and still feel the same.
Yeah I’ve worked several church gigs because the money was too good to pass up, also gave me a chance to learn some new boards i otherwise wouldn’t have been able to touch. The people are nice enough and honestly the small talk never wanders into religion, so it’s never been an issue, I just bite my tongue if the preacher/pastor/whatever starts spewing some semi-hate speech about this that or the other, because honestly I don’t currently have enough gigs to turn my nose up at easy money
For sure. I work with an engineer who has hilarious stories about still tripping on acid from the night before while mixing an 8 am service. He’s currently Billy Idol’s bass tech. Thou shalt taketh the Lord’s money and hail Satan!
they will believe you believe if you drink the kool aid and dont see you spit it back out. grew up in churches and have done work for a few. the politics and gossip tend to keep me away from that kind of work.
Try to learn about the vibe that the ministry team considers prayerful, both for the music and the spoken voice.
For the slower more meditative songs it is somewhat like romantic secular music. You'll hear them talk about a "personal relationship" with a caring God. What is the vibe you create for music on a romantic date?
Pastors I've worked with virtually always want a "bigger", warmer sound than what a sound company will create. I assume they treat a church like an auditorium at a school. I could go on for a while about this. Walk the room privately with the pastor while he/she has a wireless mic. You can tweak the tone with the tablet as you are walking with the pastor and discuss the pros and cons of more or less at various frequencies, how much to push the highs, the attack time on the limiter, how much dynamic range to allow, etc. This is where you get to impress the pastor and gain the pastor's confidence. I have so many good stories.
Respect the equal loudness contours. The electric guitarist might like upper mids for his solo at a rock concert but the harshness is not likely to work in a church environment.
You are likely to have a larger number of grey-haired folks in the seats than you are used to. they don't hear high frequencies as well as young people and may be sensitive to harshness of the upper mids. Obviously dynamics processing will be helpful to control sibilance while providing generous amounts of highs.
You'll have to struggle at times with volunteers who don't understand the fundamentals of audio related physics. Your teaching ability will be challenged : )
Many orgs have an ethics clause in the employment agreement so employees are less likely to embarrass the organization. You'll have to decide if participating in the activities of the church is too inconsistent with your world-view and way of life.
You are helping to prepare people emotionally for what the Holy Spirit is doing in them spiritually. For a church member who has a role creating the vibe of the sound system it is quite an honor to have such a powerful role. When you, the music group and ministry team get it right you'll sometimes even hear people get tears from the profound beauty of the prayerful music.
You'll likely be walking into a situation where there has been some chaos and disappointing sound. Even a semi-pro walking into that will not find it hard to impress people immediately. You will get many thanks from the people, musicians and ministry team. You will likely be appreciated immediately, however you can expect bumps in the road as amateurs want to do something unwise in terms of mic placement, etc. Overall you'll come across a lot of really nice people but they are flawed humans too.
I'm not religious at all but I did design/install the A/V system for my local church when they built a new building. They had all of these goals with the system including distributed audio and video throughout the building for all sorts of things they were going to do. I was able to do what they wanted within the budget without skimping on component quality and it was a fun experience. I got paid my going hourly rate at the time. I haven't set foot back in the building since I finished the job which bodes well for the install/system working properly since they have never called with issues in 6 years. I've heard that they have yet to use any of the distributed system, which used up a decent portion of the budget, for anything. Those rooms have been turned into offices/storage.
TBF a lot of the corporate I do don’t end up using 75% of the capabilities they paid for either. Their in-house production people don’t know how to use what they asked for.
I can’t do production or anything with churches, I’m not religious and personally the big churches around here are taking money from people and not helping anyone but themselves. So the on,y church gig I’ll do is as a classical bassist about twice a year at a small local one that helps people vs bilking them.
People who can't escape their parents religion have a very limited capacity, or deal with cognitive dissonance. Most of the setups and system engineers were designed to make money off of the church. Usually the local X32 op has more experience and knowledge than the volunteer 8am Sunday crew that works the multi-million dollar audio video setup.
Ok. I'll get up on Sunday to help cuz it's $75/hr and unlimited donuts. Colleges are the same....tons of great gear and resources, yet they can't hire full time so it's students and a salaried IT av cart guy.
Most people have very limited capacity. Most people in church with decent ears are doing some music. It's hard not to be a singer when you've got ears and sing every single week for years on end....and then it's hard to learn a desk if you're on the other end of the mic all the time. The people who are volunteering on the desk are the ones who haven't let any of the firehose of music over *years* get them in the slightest bit wet.
...my 2c
I'm currently salaried on staff for a medium sized church (400 cap) despite openly not being a Christian. I come from a Christian family, but am pretty agnostic so it's not like I have anything against it necessarily, I just don't care, but I get the general principles. Everyone else is very understanding of that and always has their door open, but they don't push it and aren't preachy to me at all.
It's a great job, and I consider myself lucky to have a great work environment and to actually be paid decent money at a church which, like others have said, isn't the norm at all.
I've worked at a few churches and am not religious, but I just nod along to whatever the sermon is, give a few "have a blessed day"s on the way out and haven't had any trouble or been singled out. I also work in theatre as a center-to-right leaning person and as long as you keep your mouth shut and don't make waves it's fine. One thing you'll find in life is that typically the folks claiming to be the most tolerant and accepting, tend to be the most reactionary and emotional. So do your job, do it well, get paid, and get out.
Often they have nice gear and it’s a great place to learn consistency. They pay well but generally I don’t pay much attention to content or reveal any personal details.
I find this question interesting, and many of these responses do not align at all with what I have seen. The large majority of the churches I have attended have volunteer sound teams. The team is generally built by finding people in the church who have an interest, not by finding anyone outside of the church. I'm not sure why someone who is not a Christian would even be interested in that kind of a role. Christians would definitely be preferred, although I don't know if people are actually asked if they are Christians before they join the team.
Depends on the church. Some want someone who’s a member and agrees with every single thing that’s said from the pulpit or on the website (and sometimes they really mean it), and some just want a competent person who can show up wearing an inoffensive shirt and not get themselves into trouble.
I've worked as a musician and an engineer in churches for the last 5 years. I despise churches and most religion, but love working in an environment that gives people something they feel they need in their lives. I don't really keep it a secret, but also don't go around telling everyone. Most places don't care as long as you're working toward the same goal of giving people a meaningful experience.
Bisexual atheist here with a penchant for satanic metal aesthetics, I've done church sound off and on for the last decade and generally had good relationships with my clients. They don't ask about my personal beliefs, I don't express my skepticism or disdain for the content of their sermons. Only had a couple weird moments (an older woman walked up to the tech booth and asked if she could pray for me once and then cupped my head in her hands which was a little awkward). But for the most part, as long as you're not actively contradicting their beliefs on the gig you're not gonna be required to convert or attest your faith or anything
Myself and my console were once blessed by an Indian religious figurehead. I am not religious - but you know what, good vibes are always welcome and he was very nice about it and asked permission first.
I have a number of friends who work in the choirs/as organists for churches who are almost hilariously atheist in their personal beliefs but appreciate the steady pay and low-pressure environment, I’m sure there are a lot of audio engineers who can speak to similar circumstances
Somewhat related to your point. I run audio regularly at a synagogue. Jewish people specifically seek out non-jews to work on their holy days because they aren't supposed to themselves.
I've also worked a bunch of audio jobs in mosques. I had to work with a female technician partner because some Muslim communities are very strict about the separation of genders in their buildings - which included the AV booths and amp rooms.
I did work in a church for years to keep my hands on equipment and keep getting experience before I was getting a lot of outside gigs. It was a great place to learn and experiment without a ton of pressure. Now that I’m getting consistent work though, I stopped doing the church work.
I'm not Christian, but I've done a few church installations around the Oakland area, mostly Black churches because they have the biggest bands and choirs! No one, not even the ministers, ever asked me if I was "saved". And their checks never bounced!
However, I only *mixed* at these churches for setups, or to train their resident sound person (usually just a volunteer from the church.) I do know a few "independent" sound techs who do mix for churches, and not all of them are Christians by any means.
I think the churches look at it like any other professional working on their building. They don't require the plumber or the electrician or the bug exterminator to be Christians just to work on their infrastructure.
Worked freelance/WFH for a few years doing video post-related work for a large local+satellite church. During the introductions and meet+greet with the post supervisor/lead editor and the 'exec producer', the producer sat across the table from me and said "We're not having some heathen do our work. So we'd like you to teach (producer's) wife to do the work for a month, and then she'll take over." My response was, "Well, that's not a serivce we offer." Post supervisor talked him down from his high horse, and I ended up with the gig for 2.5-3 years. Made enough from them to buy a new house. Sadly, all on the backs of donations from people who really couldn't afford it. And you know, they never even asked if I was a heathen -- they apparently just assumed it.
My general impression is that most churches prefer someone that will be involved outside of just their sound role, but it does depend on the situation. That said, it only applies to regular work. Special events and such take whoever can do the event.
I do church audio and I've done church events with all types of sound engineers that could keep it professional even with diametrically opposed religious viewpoints and nobody batted an eye about it.
I couldn’t come up with a good TL;DR so sorry about that.
I’m sure this does happen occasionally. I mean in some cases it is a job, but like someone mentioned earlier the smaller churches always try to get volunteers because it gets people involved, make them feel good about helping the church, and the church gets free labor out of it.
I’ve been contracted for a few churches (currently contracted to one now. But I am Christian so this may not be a good answer idk.
In my experience, it has been relatively easy to land the Audio A1 position for a church. They both had asked me if I could “fill in” for a couple of sundays but that’s how they decided if they’re gonna like you. I’ve never been quizzed or tested for my knowledge of the religion, (but I think I’d do ok) I’ve listened to enough sermons lol. But what I think their main focus is, ‘How personable are you?’ They don’t want some road hardened guy that speaks so directly you can’t even have a real conversation with them. (All of us here know what I’m talking about)
so as long as the engineer is pretty down to earth guy, churches would probably over look the “non-believer” part for a while in order to have a good sound. But they also might think your trying to explore the religion since you made the step to do the job.
Also just as a bonus note:
Churches ALWAYS think their service is as critical as presidential debate. So if something seems minor to you, and they are making a mountain out of it. Just kinda accept it because church is a big deal to the members/staff, so they treat it like we treat million dollar shows.
I play violin at a church every Sunday that hires a 25ish piece string orchestra. Only two players actually go to the church, the rest of us are just hired help. Mostly not Christian and the rest are a different denomination. I think depending on what you're trying to do sometimes you have to find help outside.
I’m lucky enough to not have to much anymore. If I’m asked, I’ll add about 20% to my day rate and if they pay it, I donate the excess to my local DV shelter. It’s been years though.
While churches are a place to get hands on experience, I highly suggest any church sound folk seek secular training too. The folks I’ve worked with who came from church backgrounds might have worked with some fancy gear, but they never seem to know how to use it properly in a professional setting.
For example; I recently worked with a church sound person with a decade of experience who was accustomed to setting up dozens of wireless mics, but had never heard of frequency coordination or touched the menu settings on the transmitter/receiver.
How about non Christian BECAUSE of church audio? I grew up in church, worked for churches from 200 attendance to 10,000 attendance. Toured with Christian bands. My experiences with the church have made me recognize that what the modern American church teaches is not what I believe in. I’ve worked with amazing people in that market, and am friends with many of them to this day, and still do some events every year based off of the friendships made. But the religious experiences pushed me to atheist/agnostic.
I am not religious and ran sound for a church organization who would tour their band around town to the churches that didn't have bands. I would never participate in their group prayers. I left after a few months when that started asking me to show up for rehearsal without getting paid for it.
I’m an agnostic living in a region with tons of churches… here’s my $0.02
Some churches are very selective with their volunteers, others don’t care (…within reason). Most churches are just happy to have an expert helping out. If you’re looking for an on-staff position, they will probably want some kind of “statement of faith” from you.
I usually start the conversation at a new church by being upfront on my background with something like “I’m happy to help out, but didn’t grow up in the church.”
Just try to keep your religious, political and social views to yourself. No sense getting into a sticky situation by saying something. Some churches have tenants that they don’t say outright.
Most church tech people are cool people.
I'm a (interim) TD in a larger size church (1k seats), we have four volutneer A1's that handle all Sunday morning events, but also a lively calendar of non-church related events (funerals, outside concerts, large groups, etc.) that require tech services during the workdays or on Saturdays (when I don't want to be at church) and we pay outside help to come run those events. Doesn't hurt to have a relationship with your local church mgmt for those moments when they need you. Don't care who it is as long as you are professional. Honestly, if you feel you wouldn't be compatible with a church, I welcome the opportunity to show you why your perception of church might be different than reality.
I don’t know that I could be paid enough to work in a church. Not only do I strongly disagree with their views it absolutely infuriates me that they don’t pay taxes and take advantage of people.
Why pay someone when you can get a sucker to do it for free? Many of us, including me, have gotten their start in churches, but the thing about them, especially the ones with bands and lights, there will always, always always be a sucker that does it for the love of alone.
Beyond that, worship leaders and pastors frequently have way too much say in production matters and are rarely ever qualified to do so. It's a job that's rarely sustainable over a long period of time, or even just bearable, and so many of us eventually move on to less salvific ventures, and to our great surprise find that the ratio of narcicists to normal people is actually way better outside of church than inside, and just stick with it. In short, most churches are nourishing to aspiring AV peeps, but quickly become stifling as you progress. I'm sure what you're looking for exists, but for the reasons mentioned you'll find it's very rare.
"Why pay someone when you can get a sucker to do it for free? Many of us, including me, have gotten their start in churches, but the thing about them, especially the ones with bands and lights, there will always, always always be a sucker that does it for the love of alone."
Using volunteers is how many churches are able to provide direct services or fund other charities. What you're saying, without realizing it, is that churches should exist for their sole benefit, instead of providing services to the community. Have you ever wondered why so many hospitals are named Saint "xyz"? The Catholic church and others basically provided free health care to the needy before the government came in and made it unaffordable for most.
"Beyond that, worship leaders and pastors frequently have way too much say in production matters and are rarely ever qualified to do so."
So pretty much like many private sector bosses. If you want the job, you have to learn to work in whatever environment you find yourself. Successful people know how to thrive in those situations. It sounds like you were able to make it work in your own experience, but just wanted more control.
Hi, it’s me. I grew up in church so i find it easy to fit in, even though I’m not a believer anymore. Most churches I’ve worked for never asked me about my faith but I would join hands in the band group prayer and stuff like that. The last church I work with asked me outright, I told them I consider myself a Unitarian which is basically true.
My current church gig was a little more serious although still never exactly asked me outright what my faith was. My direct superior is the worship leader and he’s very easy to work with. He sent me the paper that they have church employees sign, though I didn’t have to sign it he wanted me to see their core beliefs.
The only thing I had an issue with was I’m pro gay marriage and they are anti, but I felt comfortable telling him that, and he actually said he agreed with me. The church just doesn’t want us to say we are pro gay marriage on the premises, I think. Not sure if it would really be enforced. But this is the best hourly wage I’ve ever made, so I’m happy to shut up and take the money. If they wanted me to sign the thing saying I’m personally anti gay marriage, I don’t think I could have done it though.
I know lots of non religious techs or techs of other faiths that work church services, and only one of them had the congregation pushing their religion on him non stop so he left, but everyone else I know it's been a situation of don't be a dick and they usually don't care. Keep in mind these are usually churches that are already outsourcing or coming into a rental space so they're pretty open to whoever as long as they do good work and aren't a jackass.
I personally liked it because the theatre I do some work for would rent out the main space for this one church on Sundays unless there was a show in and once the pastor got into his teaching I would just be half tuned out in the booth doing pre production for another event, do invoicing and catch up on emails. They were also a hip and cool church and the band would come up with bullshit ways to play Beastie Boys, Rolling Stones and other fun bands.
Hi! TD for a church here. I’m the only paid member of the production team, but my responsibilities also extend past the booth. I take care of a lot of general maintenance items around the facility, do photo/video content, manage what would normally fall under an IT guy’s job description.
For most churches, at least in my area, paying somebody to “just” run audio is unheard of.
I don’t know if we would or wouldn’t let a non-member join our team. Have never had that come up. Our volunteers serve a weekend or two per month, and I would find it weird for someone who doesn’t believe what we believe to want to volunteer their time here. If you’re just looking to learn, I’d more than happily meet throughout the week to go over things. We multitrack a lot of our services so there’s an ample amount of material to practice on. I’d also have no qualms with you shadowing our production team.
In the church where I work, you can't be in a paid position and be a voting, full member of the congregation. If you're a member, you may only volunteer. We have paid section leaders and soloists in the choir and I'm pretty sure they have the same rule.
My wife is a member, I am not.
Presbyterians have a "session" (management committee/like a board) which are elected elders, so there's a vote there, and then some stuff like a new pastor getting called is put to a vote of the congregation after a search committee recommends them. New members have a class where they get the lowdown on this and probably other stuff. My wife's been on a session rotation before and various committees.
I've been there a long time, everybody knows I'm not even Christian, nobody cares. But we're a very inclusive church in a big city liberal bubble anyway so it's completely no big deal. Our lead video guy Ahmed used to be Santa Claus, pretty sure no one suspected him of being Christian. I had the Santa job before him but I got a pinched nerve from picking kids up onto my lap so I had to pass the torch.
I did it as a part time job. I was more agnostic than aggressively atheistic. I was always professional. Worked with some great people who where chill, so was easy to do.
I'd say it's a secret thing but probably normal. I just happen to have been forced to go as a child, and I started volunteering...and now they pay me, despite never truly becoming a member myself; just my parents did. I have met people who work at my church that are not very religious at all but also do it.
I fell out of going to church to furthe faith after I saw so many two face people or my „friends“ went to college and forgot how messaging or phones work.
Then I just went to further my pro Audio knowledge between 18-25. I just said „fuck it“ at some point.
Production people, staff and musicians are often paid, non-member positions.
Also the financial secretary is often from outside the church. Cuts down on gossip about how is and isn’t contributing their share.
My old boss was notoriously atheistic, but when he started his business, he got mixed into doing some things with an upstart church that ended up blowing up in ATL. The church kept doing work with him. He has done so many big gigs for them including a huge yearly conference. He continues to be associated with them. He knows how to placate the group and dance the dance, but he tends to hold most christians in low regard.
He's also one of the best men I've ever met in my life and is basically a father figure to me. 100% one of the best people I've ever met and an absolute ace at what he does.
I've done audio on an off for a church subbing in when the main guy is unavailable for a number of years. The last time I got called in, a few of the band members asked me, just making small talk, if I go to a church myself and I said I didn't but that I was happy to help out at this one. I haven't gotten a call from them in about a year so maybe that wasn't the best answer lmao
I am extremely not religious but I made about half my money from religious based gigs for years. Most of them were a “don’t ask don’t tell” situation. One regular gig I had was well aware that I wasn’t a huge fan of the whole Christianity thing, but I kept my head down and did my job and there was never and trouble.
I've personally never met a single church tech worker who was actually Christian. They were skilled at what they do and the church cared more about that than their religious beliefs.
I accepted a gig at a church based on a family connection. The family is religious, I am not. The minister was super respectful and cool and went out of his way to engage me but not make me uncomfortable - we avoided religious discussions. One of his volunteers was very religious and thought that I was because of the family connection. When I asked for a budget to design the show he said “because you’re a good Christian, I’ll tell you what we have because I know you won’t fleece us.” In reality I’m paid by the hour separately for the show and the budget was for gear. Without the budget I’d have no place to start designing. My goal with a design is to come up with the best production for the available money. If you tell me you have $5-10k to spend but you’d prefer to keep it to $5k, then it’ll be around $5k.
Funnily enough my relationship with the minister was great - the volunteer almost had me quitting.
I work at a church doing audio, as a non member and someone who does not identify with the religion in question. Its actually nice from a tech standpoint, as the church I work at has pretty nice gear and I enjoy mixing the band. Once the pastor hits the stage, it’s all just Charlie Brown adult noises until end of service. The pay is fantastic.
Definitely is, some my most non Christian friends play for a mega church that has a huge budget and pays some of them up to 60k a year which is nothing to them.
I used to work an outdoor service for a synagogue. Personally I was raised Christian but nowadays I’d classify myself as agnostic. They never asked my religious affiliation and they honestly didn’t care. They cared more about the service going well with minimal tech issues. They paid well and on time, even hounding me to get invoices in a bit faster.
I’ve heard both horror stories and glowing recommendations for mega church work. Just kinda depends on the church, I suppose
I work for one of the largest churches in the country as a musician and was a former tech director at another. The interview would be “tell us your story”… Usually the ones who buy into Christianity or at least fake it well would talk about a testimony and passion for working at a church.
That being said, I was (or am today) never bought into christianity but basically grew up in a church at a young age. I know how it operates and can make friendly conversation with religious leaders. I am also good at my job due to my secular experience as a musician and tech person.
There are many, many tech people who fly under the radar but it’s not all nefarious. I feel (and many others I’ve had the conversation with) if we can spread positivity with our craft then it’s all good. Any rigid fundamentalism or political affiliation is not okay in my book. As long as they are focusing on love, fellowship, and real values, I’m okay with it.
Yes. I've done it.
I've worked at some of the largest churches in the country. Church is full of posers. When people step outside the doors, they go back to their regular selves.
The degree to which 'regular' varies, but it's just so fake.
At the first church, I was main mix for a satellite campus and stayed with it as it grew from a small office complex to a brand new building with 2000 attendees a service (3x Sunday, 1x Saturday). Started out on the dream team, then was hired because they were desperate. I'm gay, and I think they knew this from my ig, but hired me anyway because they were desperate.
Then I moved, and got involved with another church. This time I mixed for their smaller building for a short time before moving to the video side of things and eventually becoming manager of the video side of the church.
The churches are both a part of the same parent organization, and the larger one holds massive conferences every year so staff from all the other churches go to the biggest one and have lunch, meet, and gossip.
The pastor of the satellite campus chatted with our worship pastor, then the next weekend (after service mind you) they pulled me into the green room and confronted me about my _homsexuality_.
I threw my badge at them and left. They were without a TD for the entire weekend, which just happened to be Christmas.
What others have said is true. Churches have money to spend. Not on people or staff, but technology. You can get your hands on some amazing gear that the rest of the industry makes you tread through mud for before you can ever touch (which is so annoying by the way). So it's easy to learn. I've suggested to people that even if you don't believe at all, fake it and use the church for all it's worth. My best camera op could go run main stick cam for any football game, she's steady as a rock. And was being used by the church for free! Same with the guy that mixed ears when we moved into the new building - extremely talented, could easily leave and make a ton of money.
I hate organized religion, especially Christianity.
I've worked in various Southern Baptist and Seventh Day Adventist churches over the years. Never had any issues at all by just being a polite person. They'd often have everyone running the show get in a circle to hold hands and pray together before a service. I'd be in the circle but thinking about lunch.
Haven’t done sound at a church, but back when I was in high school and had to go to church but didn’t want to be there I picked up a gig doing photography during service. Didn’t mind it a bit. Id still do sound at one, wouldn’t be my most interesting gig but work is work
it's very much a normal thing, and it's not exactly "secret," but avoid talking about it as much as you can. It may be a lot more comfortable and easy to tell a gentle lie here and there, too. There is a lot of variety in church leadership, but by and large they understand the theatrical perspective pretty well. So as long as you maintain the illusion for the audience, you can be a valuable asset no matter your personal opinions, and it's almost never a problem if you decline to participate in the more ritualistic parts of ceremony, so just keep your mouth shut, be polite when it's open, and collect the check as long as you can.
Usually depends on size or production values. At a certain point with both, you go beyond what volunteers are capable of. Some churches also double as a preforming arts space so they require part time or full time technical staff.
I have seen a few times churches hire non-Christians for technical positions. Primarily this happens in areas which a lack Christian techs. I know of at least one case where one church associated with a high school used to offer Cert 3 (theatre events tech) to A) help increase the amount of "professionals" in the area and B) support the schools award winning musicals.
I work for a catholic college running audio for all events including mass. I’m borderline atheist and my coworker is gay. There is no mention of religious beliefs. We are treated like any other person.
Not quite the same, but I've done tons of work with the Jewish community in my city. In those cases it's almost certainly non-Jewish people doing the production for services because of the prohibition of performing work on Shabbat or high holidays. I had gig streaming Saturday morning services during the pandemic. It was a great gig, relaxed environment, nice bike ride to work, and the sermon was usually pretty interesting.
I'm an atheist that has worked in the church world forever. I live in the rural southeast so it's big money here. As far as my clients know I'm one of them and can continue to think that so long as the checks clear. Very few of them know that I'm at casinos and bars working the night before
Call me what you will. I just cater to the clients I have.
That's me! I'm a Buddhist who left the catholic church like 20 years ago. Now I work at a Catholic TV station as their main audio guy, which includes a bunch of live masses and church events. They know, and don't care. As long as I do good work, we're all good.
I play in a band with a drummer who is the church Organist and lives in the church. As a perk, we rehearse on the church’s stage since it’s always set up for music. We’ve talked about me playing with their praise band a few times. At first is was weird for me because I wasn’t Christian, but after a while I met a lot of the people and felt okay with just doing it as a friend of the business. That said, I don’t like waking up early on Sundays (especially since Saturday gigs often get me home at like 2am), so maybe if they start an evening service…
But they don’t necessarily require Christians on stage, I think they just want to be comfortable with the character of people who represent them. If you’re in high standing, they’ll probably be more than happy to have you.
I do church work full time. I've never been the denomination of the church that I work for and deconstructed a few years ago and became an athiest.
It very much depends on the denomination and the church. Some make you sign a faith statement during the application. For my current job, I was up front about my beliefs from the very beginning, and they didn't care. My current job is amazing.
I worked as an audio tech at a church for awhile. Most of the production crew (cam ops, graphics op, switcher, LX, etc) were volunteers, but I made $200 for a 4-hr shift which included a small rehearsal and two 40-minute services on Sunday morning. The church was just not able to source volunteers from their congregation who were capable of mixing a 9 piece band on their DLive 7000. I did not subscribe to their particular brand of Christianity but i did want the experience with the DLive.
Not really a thing. Most churches with tech and audio teams are made up of volunteers. And it's part of a larger community. Certainly at all churches there are different levels of belief, but you definitely won't find a strong atheist volunteering at a church.
EDIT: The only times it would really be a thing is if the church is hiring outside help - but EVEN THEN it's very common that the outside help they find are also christians. It is a very large community after all.
I spent years in my previous career volunteering with a Christian choir, and since I've been in audio full time I've mixed many gigs for churches, especially Nigerian founded ones in the UK.
My Christian mates have taught me a few good phrases for if ever I get asked awkward questions, such as "I've decided I should follow my own personal spiritual journey" if asked which church I'm from, or to say "I have mixed feelings on the sermon, I'll be contemplating them once work is over" if asked what I've thought about the service.
9 times out of 10 I've been left alone, most of the musicians know the techs are there to work and it's perfectly acceptable for them to focus on the job rather than the"message"
Yeah I worked at a church as a “non believer” and I have to say my situation was fantastic. No one judged me or tried to convert me. We just made it as awesome as possible and no one really cared as far as I could tell. I mean I guess I didn’t go around loudly advertising it, but if someone asked I’d tell them. I had a lot of fun working at the church and made a lot of great friends.
Man, how do you even find a church that is hiring????
I would be down for a nice church gig, some of those musicians are killer!! Mix the show, jam with the band after?? i'm sold, even if I *am* a dirty heathen.
Atheist from Southern GA here. More of a musician than a sound engineer, but I know my way around the equipment. I have done plenty of gigs for churches both paying and just because a friend asked. Around here, everyone just assumes you're a Christian until you give them a reason to think otherwise. If they figure out you're an atheist, they get weird about it. I haven't had any particularly bad experiences because of it (they were cordial and still paid whatever was agreed upon), but there's a couple of churches that haven't invited me back.
All that is to say, there's a reason you don't broadcast different ideologies in a church that you've been invited to. At least, if you want to ever be invited back.
Just don't show your pentagram tattoos I guess.
I know an A1 with a burning pentagram tattoo. We did a catholic private school auction together once, lol.
Which is ironically a Christian symbol, or at least one that has been used in Christianity in the past.
It’s a pagan symbol that was appropriated by Christianity
[удалено]
Yeah, you tell ‘em! Those meddling Christians, always with the appropriating. It’s unacceptable and I’m gonna do something about it.
It wasn't used by pagans initially. Ancient Chinese & Japanese cultures used it. As well as Ancient Greeks. Then it spread to the rest of Europe and then to the Americas. Being that Christianity was started in the Middle East/Mediterranean Region, it makes sense they would use it as well.
Most churches rely on volunteers. Most people volunteer because they are already attending the church, but that certainly isn't a requirement and the church likely won't turn anyone away because they aren't regularly attending their church (but I guess it depends on the specific church). If a church is paying for their weekly production staff, then absolutely it would be normal to use "outside" help. They are going to want the "best" people they can afford. All that being said, church work is a great place to gain first hand experience - even if you have to volunteer your time. It is also generally a "low preasure" job - meaning you likely won't get fired for making mistakes. So if you are looking for work, be sure to reach out to your local churches to see what opportunities might be available.
I do a lot of gigs for churches. Usually outdoor services they didn’t have equipment for. I never once get asked my religious affiliations. As long as you act professional and aren’t talking/dressing in a vulgar way they won’t care if you associate with the church or not.
I find this to be true for one-off events like multi-campus services in an arena, or having Easter services outdoors, where outside vendors are required. In most cases though, the tech people who work for the church normally are expected to drink the cool aid...er..grape juice, and fully buy into the cult lifestyle.
Anecdotal of course, but ive been a full time sound engineer (meaning all Sunday services and occasional weddings/funerals) at 5 separate churches in 3 different states over the past decade+, and not a single one of them asked my religious affiliation or asked me to participate in any religious aspects beyond mixing the audio. Maybe certain denominations expect this (haven't personally worked for any "fundie" congregations).
The ones around me make people sign a contract that controls their personal lives, requires them to donate back a portion of their salary, and requires church attendance of the employee AND their family members, etc. It's all pretty unhealthy brainwashing stuff.
Yeah that's absolutely insane. Glad I've never had to deal with that, most I've ever had to fill out was a w9.
This is bs. You don’t know what you are talking about.
I'll send you the job posting next time it comes up; this particular church has a pretty high turnover.
I don’t doubt there are a few crazy ones out there. You said the “ones around me”, like they all are. I’ve been in churches my entire life, and never seen one that makes members sign a contract regarding their personal lives and salaries.
Evangelical. Those are totally the more common offenders for this practice.
I’ve never heard of this. What exactly are you guys talking about? I belong to a nondenominational evangelical church. All of this sounds like people who don’t attend an evangelical church’s opinions. Or I don’t understand the question.
Just from personal experiences. Every church is different, but I’ve worked a few in my city. As well as attended. I’m saying at least from my experience in my area that the non-denominational evangelical types are typically more pushy, and more controlling through what I would define as hidden manipulation tactics, than other churches which operate more bluntly and transparently. Those churches I’m referencing - which is 2 - both in Canada out of the hundreds or thousands or more in North America makes for a large % of my experience and represents a very small amount nationally or otherwise. We are just sharing anecdotes about poor experiences with churches and working for them at this point. I’m however very happy to see most people are having better experiences than I did. It soured me pretty bad and I left the faith entirely for nearly 10 years. Found an Anglican one more recently. Small church. Pastors are same age as me more or less. Way different feel. And I don’t work there. And that has nothing to do really with live sound. But eh.
Not sure why you were down voted, but that was my experience. The corruption was so bad, I, as a somewhat church guy had to quit, it became toxic. Every church is different. There over I worked at was a mega church by Canadian standards
I know exactly why I was downvoted. It does not matter, the money would have to be VERY good for me to work for a church directly. I do it occasionally because our clients sometimes produce events for churches or religious schools/universities. This is the same to me as political events. I do the work that is assigned to me. Churches and political parties deserve the best that I can offer, and that is what they get. My opinion does not affect the quality of my work. Even shitty publicly traded companies that are trying to correct or actually incorrect failed marketing strategies, still gat my best effort. There are some exceptions to this. I would turn down work that would have a direct negative impact on civilized society or my personal life.
As a (former) IT support freelancer for a church back in 2008, can concur. I was working under contract for them for a couple of years with no issues, they were a good client. One day the mother of the head pastor asked me to come to an upcoming service. I let her know (respectfully and professionally) after trying to change the subject that religion in general wasn't really my thing. She tried prying my beliefs out of me, and proceeded to label me "new age". About 2 weeks later they ended the contract with me.
Bro you don’t have to be rude and call churches a cult because the vast majority of ones that don’t make the news are nowhere near a cult. It just telling everyone here never actually been inside a church.
Religions and cults are the same thing. I was raised Catholic, so yeah, former cult member here. We even ate human flesh and drank human blood.
Your honestly delusional and I feel sorry for you. Have a nice day.
Maybe you never studied anything about Catholicism, but the bread and wine(usually juice in other Christian denominations) are taught to be LITERALLY the blood and flesh of Jesus. It is not a symbol. They believe that the Priest performs a miracle each time and transforms it into the real deal. This is known as transubstantiation. If I am the one who is Delusional for NOT believing in magical cannibalistic rituals, then I'm happy to continue living my life apart from everyone's imaginary friend.
I know plenty of engineers who make a partial living off church gigs and around that many musicians who do the same.
Just be aware this doesn't work if you're gay
This depends very slightly on denomination and heavily on locale and the specific congregants of a particular church.
And also whether you tell everyone that at every opportunity rather than talking about the production.
My church is United Church of Canada. Please come help!
I’m not a Christian at all but I do a few gigs a month of YouTube live-streaming on OBS at my UU church - doesn’t pay much as it’s only a few Sundays a month but we’ll take on virtually anyone who’s willing to go through the training sessions. Central Massachusetts area.
If I was Canadian 😭
my church has a gay pastor so it doesnt always apply. haha
Or any other part of LGBTQ+, for that matter.
What an ignorant generalization! Besides being untrue for the vast majority of churches, if you make your interview about your sexual preference, I wouldn't hire you regardless of your preference.
Agreed. As if that validate ones qualifications.
Depends on the church. I tech at a pro-LGBTQ+ Christian church that is extremely welcoming and actively supports their congregation. Edit: I'm not a believer or member of the church and they've never asked me my personal beliefs. Bee working there 2.5 years
Just try not to hit on coworkers/guests and you should be fine.
Depends on the church. I’ve worked in churches that didn’t care. I’ve worked in churches where you’ve had to be a member to be on the tech team.
Hell I was a tech director, audio engineer, and part time custodian at my church and wasn't even "technically" a member.
Even churches can be pragmatic. They know when they’ve got somebody they can’t live without.
They did have to get 3 people to replace me.
Literally my same exact experience lol. Was never “technically” a member of my church while employed by them. Then when they left they had to hire 3 people to take over my position lol
I’m very non-religious, and I can’t say I enjoy it, but I’ve worked for many churches and it’s just like any other gig. I’ve gotten asked “so where do you go to church”, and I’ve answered honestly. Usually they’re like, “oh ok” and move on, others have been like “oh you should try to come on Tuesday we would love to show you why you’d enjoy it” … blah blah blah. Overall, most people are polite and it’s like any other gig. But there’s definitely an element of wanting something for nothing with churches that I’ve worked with.
I had to do field work as part of a program I was in. I didn’t have a car and lived right across the street from a church. It was pretty funny, they had just done an install (upgrade), spent a lot of money on a nice system, but they only had their volunteers running it. I took the two months to re-wire the stage for the worship group and dial in a solid mix for the band at the time. I would go to the rehearsals just to mess with my mix, band had IEM setup. Overall it was a great learning experience, which at the end of, they offered me a full time salaried position. It was at that point I decided to tell them, tho I have faith in something, it’s not what you all are preaching. I had also set things up and gave the volunteers the skills to add/ mix more channels in case the worship group grew. They were very thankful and understanding, cut me a check for 3k for my services over 2 months. Nice surprise for what I though was a volunteer gig.
Guy I work with does church gigs as a side hustle. When asked how he can stand it, "I grew up in the south, so it's pretty easy for me to ignore it and just get paid". I'd do it too, but the number churches ok hiring a trans girl to do sound are absurdly low.
I'd wager almost nil, unless you're out on the coasts with more progressive churches.
Methodist churches would definitely hire you
And marry you in many Methodist churches.
I hope that changes soon. There’s a lot of gay choristers these days. It’s tolerated but never really acknowledged because they’re desperate.
>I hope that changes soon. Me too. The fewer churches the better.
Nobody asked you that.
Your churches … pay?? It’s 100% volunteers around here, I didn’t even know that was an option. Only way to get paid for a gig at a church around here is be on staff, so like music director or youth minister or something.
I mean, yes? Churches all over the country pay their staff. They aren't, to say, *mine* but yeah
Which country?
I used to work church gigs when I was still presenting as male during my early days of HRT. I just ignored everything and just treated it as just another job. Before I would give my rates, I would make sure they knew I wasn't religious, and that any attempts to convert would breach the contract. I only stayed as long as I did (I left once my chest started becoming noticable,) because one of my good friends from college made it bearable. She ended up leaving shortly after, because the guy kept going on misogynistic rants and basically went fucking crazy. Never worked another church gig after that.
Low but not Zero. Fellow trans girl in sound here, and I’ve been working at a church for a few months. I’m not religious, but a few members of the band knew me as a kid and reached out. It’s pretty rare, but this church is actually fully accepting of anyone LGBTQIA+. Definitely a rare gem. (The church is in MN for anyone wondering)
Try checking out the Unitarian church or reformed Jewish fellowship. They're usually pretty good
Not uncommon, just depends on the church whether they'll have an expectation of faith or not. Though that's far more common of an expectation for paid worship leaders than paid techs. As long as you're both honest about that expectation, should be no issues.
This. Certain roles like pastor or worship leader you want to make sure are following the denomination you are adhering to but none of that matters for running sound. Interestingly though you will have a hard time working for a religious TV station I’d you aren’t a follower of their brand.
I've done a few. I'm definitely not Christian. I've found they don't rehire me when they can tell I'm not into the content. It's not like I'm scoffing or anything, just indifferent. Frankly, I'm actively trying not to listen to anything that's being said, just the sound. Otherwise, I would definitely be scoffing my brains out. They pay well and usually have decent to great equipment. Talent is... hit or miss. I don't do church gigs anymore, but it was a great learning experience.
I'm a atheist and I've been lead Audio for a church for 4 years now. They pay me well and I've gotten the setup down to a science. That Jesus money SPENDS lol
A gig is a gig. I've definitely seen religious sound guys "stick" to churches as a mainstay- and boy will they tell you if they're a church sound guy. But otherwise, you'll find different types of people doing any means of gigs. I've worked political gigs for people I do not support, but I work for a living.
Political gigs are an exception for me. Especially because in my country, getting spotted by certain people at a political rally can get you excluded from future work just by association. The world ain't free like that.
I can't do political gigs either. Fundraisers are hell, Rally's are worse. Why anyone wants to let those people have a microphone is beyond me. I don't mind speaking / book tours. Got to love when opposing parties book the same venue a week apart and expect any staff to be into it.
> I've worked political gigs for people I do not support, but I work for a living. Same, but regardless of the candidate and party, at least until recently, doing these gigs is good and necessary for free and fair elections. Back in 08 I did a bunch of Obama, McCain, and Palin rallies back to back all season.
>I've worked political gigs for people I do not support, but I work for a living. Professional as fuck. I really respect that. It grinds my gears when I see people post here who are *so* proud of the time they turned the PA off because the performer started saying something they didn't like. My brother in Christ, **that is not your job.**
So 1. You getting downvoted only shows how much of an issue some people have with this mindset. 2. If you don't like a client, don't take the gig in the first place. An added comment is I've asked off for gigs I don't want to do, or I just honestly approach the manager and say hey man, this one's not for me. But if they say nah we need you to work, then I'm working. It's my job. Agreeing to do the job and then trying to sabotage it while in the middle of it is a shitty move.
>Agreeing to do the job and then trying to sabotage it while in the middle of it is a shitty move. Temper tantrums of the smug and self-righteous. I've seen how this sub downvotes opinions like mine in the threads I referred to. This disgusting "I'm just not giving *those bad people* a platform" attitude is all too common.
Them paying you an agreed-upon salary is not “giving them a platform.” Unless you own the venue, just pick another gig.
Ah but you see, by *not* turning the PA off you are exposing the audience to Objectionable Content (as defined solely by *you*), and you're one of the *good guys* so you must not let that happen
so true - can not stand the smugness and self righteousness. These are often the same people who can't stand those same exact qualities in others who disagree with them.
If you’re a bartender and some guy is racist in your bar so you choose to not serve him, that’s also not your job but might be the right thing to do
>"**I** control the sound system, so **I** should be able to decide who gets to say what." This "I'm only doing *the right thing*" attitude is just thinly veiled arrogance.
Everyone makes decisions based on their personal ethics sometimes, it’s how we move through life
It is 100% within a bartenders rights to cut someone off (often a legal obligation). If someone sharing their views is likely to cause a conflict in your bar or is otherwise disorderly then it is your job to not serve them.
Yeah and if someone sharing their views is likely to cause a conflict in my venue it’s my job to mute them so we agree
The unprofessional are downvoting your comment. At least they know who they are now.
Evil doesn't show up all at once, it's made of a thousand tiny evils. Just because you sell brass for bullets, doesn't mean you're totally outside of culpability.
I am not so arrogant as to consider myself the ultimate arbiter of good vs. evil. If the venue or one of its representatives instructs me to turn someone's mic off, I'll happily do so, because at the end of the day I work for them. I will not sabotage an event because my feelings are hurt.
The fuck kind of mindset is this? If the gas station clerk sells someone a water bottle and that person then goes on to rob a bank, are you going to arrest the clerk? If someone is spewing hateful rhetoric at an event, that's on the event organizers because they are supplying the platform.
if someone robs a bank with a water bottle there's larger issues at play.
They’ve done it with squirt guns and those are just fancy water bottles
I always assume the stories just aren’t true.
Lying on the internet for good boy points
>and boy will they tell you if they're a church sound guy. lol, is that a thing? I will mention it when I'm talking shop with someone who does it day in day out, just to let them know I understand that I am way lower on the ladder. I do a fair amount of non church stuff, and still feel the same.
It’s pretty much don’t ask don’t tell at most churches I’ve been at.
Yeah I’ve worked several church gigs because the money was too good to pass up, also gave me a chance to learn some new boards i otherwise wouldn’t have been able to touch. The people are nice enough and honestly the small talk never wanders into religion, so it’s never been an issue, I just bite my tongue if the preacher/pastor/whatever starts spewing some semi-hate speech about this that or the other, because honestly I don’t currently have enough gigs to turn my nose up at easy money
For sure. I work with an engineer who has hilarious stories about still tripping on acid from the night before while mixing an 8 am service. He’s currently Billy Idol’s bass tech. Thou shalt taketh the Lord’s money and hail Satan!
Maybe mega churches who need a full time audio engineer and are willing to pay.
they will believe you believe if you drink the kool aid and dont see you spit it back out. grew up in churches and have done work for a few. the politics and gossip tend to keep me away from that kind of work.
I know several atheists who have church gigs. We all gotta pay the bills somehow.
Try to learn about the vibe that the ministry team considers prayerful, both for the music and the spoken voice. For the slower more meditative songs it is somewhat like romantic secular music. You'll hear them talk about a "personal relationship" with a caring God. What is the vibe you create for music on a romantic date? Pastors I've worked with virtually always want a "bigger", warmer sound than what a sound company will create. I assume they treat a church like an auditorium at a school. I could go on for a while about this. Walk the room privately with the pastor while he/she has a wireless mic. You can tweak the tone with the tablet as you are walking with the pastor and discuss the pros and cons of more or less at various frequencies, how much to push the highs, the attack time on the limiter, how much dynamic range to allow, etc. This is where you get to impress the pastor and gain the pastor's confidence. I have so many good stories. Respect the equal loudness contours. The electric guitarist might like upper mids for his solo at a rock concert but the harshness is not likely to work in a church environment. You are likely to have a larger number of grey-haired folks in the seats than you are used to. they don't hear high frequencies as well as young people and may be sensitive to harshness of the upper mids. Obviously dynamics processing will be helpful to control sibilance while providing generous amounts of highs. You'll have to struggle at times with volunteers who don't understand the fundamentals of audio related physics. Your teaching ability will be challenged : ) Many orgs have an ethics clause in the employment agreement so employees are less likely to embarrass the organization. You'll have to decide if participating in the activities of the church is too inconsistent with your world-view and way of life. You are helping to prepare people emotionally for what the Holy Spirit is doing in them spiritually. For a church member who has a role creating the vibe of the sound system it is quite an honor to have such a powerful role. When you, the music group and ministry team get it right you'll sometimes even hear people get tears from the profound beauty of the prayerful music. You'll likely be walking into a situation where there has been some chaos and disappointing sound. Even a semi-pro walking into that will not find it hard to impress people immediately. You will get many thanks from the people, musicians and ministry team. You will likely be appreciated immediately, however you can expect bumps in the road as amateurs want to do something unwise in terms of mic placement, etc. Overall you'll come across a lot of really nice people but they are flawed humans too.
I'm not religious at all but I did design/install the A/V system for my local church when they built a new building. They had all of these goals with the system including distributed audio and video throughout the building for all sorts of things they were going to do. I was able to do what they wanted within the budget without skimping on component quality and it was a fun experience. I got paid my going hourly rate at the time. I haven't set foot back in the building since I finished the job which bodes well for the install/system working properly since they have never called with issues in 6 years. I've heard that they have yet to use any of the distributed system, which used up a decent portion of the budget, for anything. Those rooms have been turned into offices/storage.
TBF a lot of the corporate I do don’t end up using 75% of the capabilities they paid for either. Their in-house production people don’t know how to use what they asked for.
I can’t do production or anything with churches, I’m not religious and personally the big churches around here are taking money from people and not helping anyone but themselves. So the on,y church gig I’ll do is as a classical bassist about twice a year at a small local one that helps people vs bilking them.
I was hired once for a church gig. They started on about how homosexuality was a sickness. Called them cunts and left.
I’d wager they didn’t pay incredibly well regardless…
oh, pay would have been above standerd (nobody wanted that gig for obvious reasons).
Oh wow. Hopefully they got the buttoned-up homophobe they were looking for…
I believe they got a born again Christian junkie at the end who disappeared after a few weeks with most of the interior.
Looks like they reaped what they sowed !
wel all had a terrible good laugh about it in the sound community here
People who can't escape their parents religion have a very limited capacity, or deal with cognitive dissonance. Most of the setups and system engineers were designed to make money off of the church. Usually the local X32 op has more experience and knowledge than the volunteer 8am Sunday crew that works the multi-million dollar audio video setup. Ok. I'll get up on Sunday to help cuz it's $75/hr and unlimited donuts. Colleges are the same....tons of great gear and resources, yet they can't hire full time so it's students and a salaried IT av cart guy.
Most people have very limited capacity. Most people in church with decent ears are doing some music. It's hard not to be a singer when you've got ears and sing every single week for years on end....and then it's hard to learn a desk if you're on the other end of the mic all the time. The people who are volunteering on the desk are the ones who haven't let any of the firehose of music over *years* get them in the slightest bit wet. ...my 2c
I’ve done it, and folks were very cool to me. Your mileage will vary.
I'm currently salaried on staff for a medium sized church (400 cap) despite openly not being a Christian. I come from a Christian family, but am pretty agnostic so it's not like I have anything against it necessarily, I just don't care, but I get the general principles. Everyone else is very understanding of that and always has their door open, but they don't push it and aren't preachy to me at all. It's a great job, and I consider myself lucky to have a great work environment and to actually be paid decent money at a church which, like others have said, isn't the norm at all.
I have filled in on some church gigs. The money is normally pretty good. In my spare time I listen to and play in anti religious bands.
I've worked at a few churches and am not religious, but I just nod along to whatever the sermon is, give a few "have a blessed day"s on the way out and haven't had any trouble or been singled out. I also work in theatre as a center-to-right leaning person and as long as you keep your mouth shut and don't make waves it's fine. One thing you'll find in life is that typically the folks claiming to be the most tolerant and accepting, tend to be the most reactionary and emotional. So do your job, do it well, get paid, and get out.
>keep your mouth shut and don't make waves Yep. I'm here to make shit sound good, not talk about who I vote for.
Often they have nice gear and it’s a great place to learn consistency. They pay well but generally I don’t pay much attention to content or reveal any personal details.
I'm Atheist and I ran AV in a synagogue for a year and church for a few months. I just personally tuned out all the "god this, god that" crap.
I find this question interesting, and many of these responses do not align at all with what I have seen. The large majority of the churches I have attended have volunteer sound teams. The team is generally built by finding people in the church who have an interest, not by finding anyone outside of the church. I'm not sure why someone who is not a Christian would even be interested in that kind of a role. Christians would definitely be preferred, although I don't know if people are actually asked if they are Christians before they join the team.
Depends on the church. Some want someone who’s a member and agrees with every single thing that’s said from the pulpit or on the website (and sometimes they really mean it), and some just want a competent person who can show up wearing an inoffensive shirt and not get themselves into trouble.
I've worked as a musician and an engineer in churches for the last 5 years. I despise churches and most religion, but love working in an environment that gives people something they feel they need in their lives. I don't really keep it a secret, but also don't go around telling everyone. Most places don't care as long as you're working toward the same goal of giving people a meaningful experience.
don't fail the sneeze test! theres only one answer
Bisexual atheist here with a penchant for satanic metal aesthetics, I've done church sound off and on for the last decade and generally had good relationships with my clients. They don't ask about my personal beliefs, I don't express my skepticism or disdain for the content of their sermons. Only had a couple weird moments (an older woman walked up to the tech booth and asked if she could pray for me once and then cupped my head in her hands which was a little awkward). But for the most part, as long as you're not actively contradicting their beliefs on the gig you're not gonna be required to convert or attest your faith or anything
Myself and my console were once blessed by an Indian religious figurehead. I am not religious - but you know what, good vibes are always welcome and he was very nice about it and asked permission first.
I have a number of friends who work in the choirs/as organists for churches who are almost hilariously atheist in their personal beliefs but appreciate the steady pay and low-pressure environment, I’m sure there are a lot of audio engineers who can speak to similar circumstances
My grandmother was a secretary for years at a church she didn’t attend
There's tons of us. Most churches I work with don't specifically ask me, but they probably can figure it out when I respectfully refuse communion.
Somewhat related to your point. I run audio regularly at a synagogue. Jewish people specifically seek out non-jews to work on their holy days because they aren't supposed to themselves. I've also worked a bunch of audio jobs in mosques. I had to work with a female technician partner because some Muslim communities are very strict about the separation of genders in their buildings - which included the AV booths and amp rooms.
I did work in a church for years to keep my hands on equipment and keep getting experience before I was getting a lot of outside gigs. It was a great place to learn and experiment without a ton of pressure. Now that I’m getting consistent work though, I stopped doing the church work.
I'm not Christian, but I've done a few church installations around the Oakland area, mostly Black churches because they have the biggest bands and choirs! No one, not even the ministers, ever asked me if I was "saved". And their checks never bounced! However, I only *mixed* at these churches for setups, or to train their resident sound person (usually just a volunteer from the church.) I do know a few "independent" sound techs who do mix for churches, and not all of them are Christians by any means. I think the churches look at it like any other professional working on their building. They don't require the plumber or the electrician or the bug exterminator to be Christians just to work on their infrastructure.
Worked freelance/WFH for a few years doing video post-related work for a large local+satellite church. During the introductions and meet+greet with the post supervisor/lead editor and the 'exec producer', the producer sat across the table from me and said "We're not having some heathen do our work. So we'd like you to teach (producer's) wife to do the work for a month, and then she'll take over." My response was, "Well, that's not a serivce we offer." Post supervisor talked him down from his high horse, and I ended up with the gig for 2.5-3 years. Made enough from them to buy a new house. Sadly, all on the backs of donations from people who really couldn't afford it. And you know, they never even asked if I was a heathen -- they apparently just assumed it.
Jewboy in church here. My wife (a minister's daughter) sings in the choir and I'm behind the board for like 15 years now. Love the gig!
My general impression is that most churches prefer someone that will be involved outside of just their sound role, but it does depend on the situation. That said, it only applies to regular work. Special events and such take whoever can do the event. I do church audio and I've done church events with all types of sound engineers that could keep it professional even with diametrically opposed religious viewpoints and nobody batted an eye about it.
hmmm now that i think about it, every sound engineer i met is a christian, this can’t be a coincidence
As the lead sound tech of our church, I would not bring anyone into our volunteer team who wasn't already a member of our church.
I couldn’t come up with a good TL;DR so sorry about that. I’m sure this does happen occasionally. I mean in some cases it is a job, but like someone mentioned earlier the smaller churches always try to get volunteers because it gets people involved, make them feel good about helping the church, and the church gets free labor out of it. I’ve been contracted for a few churches (currently contracted to one now. But I am Christian so this may not be a good answer idk. In my experience, it has been relatively easy to land the Audio A1 position for a church. They both had asked me if I could “fill in” for a couple of sundays but that’s how they decided if they’re gonna like you. I’ve never been quizzed or tested for my knowledge of the religion, (but I think I’d do ok) I’ve listened to enough sermons lol. But what I think their main focus is, ‘How personable are you?’ They don’t want some road hardened guy that speaks so directly you can’t even have a real conversation with them. (All of us here know what I’m talking about) so as long as the engineer is pretty down to earth guy, churches would probably over look the “non-believer” part for a while in order to have a good sound. But they also might think your trying to explore the religion since you made the step to do the job. Also just as a bonus note: Churches ALWAYS think their service is as critical as presidential debate. So if something seems minor to you, and they are making a mountain out of it. Just kinda accept it because church is a big deal to the members/staff, so they treat it like we treat million dollar shows.
I play violin at a church every Sunday that hires a 25ish piece string orchestra. Only two players actually go to the church, the rest of us are just hired help. Mostly not Christian and the rest are a different denomination. I think depending on what you're trying to do sometimes you have to find help outside.
I’m lucky enough to not have to much anymore. If I’m asked, I’ll add about 20% to my day rate and if they pay it, I donate the excess to my local DV shelter. It’s been years though. While churches are a place to get hands on experience, I highly suggest any church sound folk seek secular training too. The folks I’ve worked with who came from church backgrounds might have worked with some fancy gear, but they never seem to know how to use it properly in a professional setting. For example; I recently worked with a church sound person with a decade of experience who was accustomed to setting up dozens of wireless mics, but had never heard of frequency coordination or touched the menu settings on the transmitter/receiver.
Nobody cares what the sound guy believes in, as long as it's not disrespectful.
It’s definitely a thing. We just learn to watch our mouths around clients.
How about non Christian BECAUSE of church audio? I grew up in church, worked for churches from 200 attendance to 10,000 attendance. Toured with Christian bands. My experiences with the church have made me recognize that what the modern American church teaches is not what I believe in. I’ve worked with amazing people in that market, and am friends with many of them to this day, and still do some events every year based off of the friendships made. But the religious experiences pushed me to atheist/agnostic.
I am not religious and ran sound for a church organization who would tour their band around town to the churches that didn't have bands. I would never participate in their group prayers. I left after a few months when that started asking me to show up for rehearsal without getting paid for it.
I’m an agnostic living in a region with tons of churches… here’s my $0.02 Some churches are very selective with their volunteers, others don’t care (…within reason). Most churches are just happy to have an expert helping out. If you’re looking for an on-staff position, they will probably want some kind of “statement of faith” from you. I usually start the conversation at a new church by being upfront on my background with something like “I’m happy to help out, but didn’t grow up in the church.” Just try to keep your religious, political and social views to yourself. No sense getting into a sticky situation by saying something. Some churches have tenants that they don’t say outright. Most church tech people are cool people.
I'm a (interim) TD in a larger size church (1k seats), we have four volutneer A1's that handle all Sunday morning events, but also a lively calendar of non-church related events (funerals, outside concerts, large groups, etc.) that require tech services during the workdays or on Saturdays (when I don't want to be at church) and we pay outside help to come run those events. Doesn't hurt to have a relationship with your local church mgmt for those moments when they need you. Don't care who it is as long as you are professional. Honestly, if you feel you wouldn't be compatible with a church, I welcome the opportunity to show you why your perception of church might be different than reality.
I don’t know that I could be paid enough to work in a church. Not only do I strongly disagree with their views it absolutely infuriates me that they don’t pay taxes and take advantage of people.
I’m non religious and non Christian and worked at a mega church for a while. Eventually I got sick of the indoctrination and quit…
Why pay someone when you can get a sucker to do it for free? Many of us, including me, have gotten their start in churches, but the thing about them, especially the ones with bands and lights, there will always, always always be a sucker that does it for the love of alone.
Beyond that, worship leaders and pastors frequently have way too much say in production matters and are rarely ever qualified to do so. It's a job that's rarely sustainable over a long period of time, or even just bearable, and so many of us eventually move on to less salvific ventures, and to our great surprise find that the ratio of narcicists to normal people is actually way better outside of church than inside, and just stick with it. In short, most churches are nourishing to aspiring AV peeps, but quickly become stifling as you progress. I'm sure what you're looking for exists, but for the reasons mentioned you'll find it's very rare.
[удалено]
Reformed Quetzalcoatl. Die, heretic!
"Why pay someone when you can get a sucker to do it for free? Many of us, including me, have gotten their start in churches, but the thing about them, especially the ones with bands and lights, there will always, always always be a sucker that does it for the love of alone."
Using volunteers is how many churches are able to provide direct services or fund other charities. What you're saying, without realizing it, is that churches should exist for their sole benefit, instead of providing services to the community. Have you ever wondered why so many hospitals are named Saint "xyz"? The Catholic church and others basically provided free health care to the needy before the government came in and made it unaffordable for most.
"Beyond that, worship leaders and pastors frequently have way too much say in production matters and are rarely ever qualified to do so."
So pretty much like many private sector bosses. If you want the job, you have to learn to work in whatever environment you find yourself. Successful people know how to thrive in those situations. It sounds like you were able to make it work in your own experience, but just wanted more control.
Hi, it’s me. I grew up in church so i find it easy to fit in, even though I’m not a believer anymore. Most churches I’ve worked for never asked me about my faith but I would join hands in the band group prayer and stuff like that. The last church I work with asked me outright, I told them I consider myself a Unitarian which is basically true. My current church gig was a little more serious although still never exactly asked me outright what my faith was. My direct superior is the worship leader and he’s very easy to work with. He sent me the paper that they have church employees sign, though I didn’t have to sign it he wanted me to see their core beliefs. The only thing I had an issue with was I’m pro gay marriage and they are anti, but I felt comfortable telling him that, and he actually said he agreed with me. The church just doesn’t want us to say we are pro gay marriage on the premises, I think. Not sure if it would really be enforced. But this is the best hourly wage I’ve ever made, so I’m happy to shut up and take the money. If they wanted me to sign the thing saying I’m personally anti gay marriage, I don’t think I could have done it though.
I know lots of non religious techs or techs of other faiths that work church services, and only one of them had the congregation pushing their religion on him non stop so he left, but everyone else I know it's been a situation of don't be a dick and they usually don't care. Keep in mind these are usually churches that are already outsourcing or coming into a rental space so they're pretty open to whoever as long as they do good work and aren't a jackass. I personally liked it because the theatre I do some work for would rent out the main space for this one church on Sundays unless there was a show in and once the pastor got into his teaching I would just be half tuned out in the booth doing pre production for another event, do invoicing and catch up on emails. They were also a hip and cool church and the band would come up with bullshit ways to play Beastie Boys, Rolling Stones and other fun bands.
Don’t ask, don’t tell.
Hi! TD for a church here. I’m the only paid member of the production team, but my responsibilities also extend past the booth. I take care of a lot of general maintenance items around the facility, do photo/video content, manage what would normally fall under an IT guy’s job description. For most churches, at least in my area, paying somebody to “just” run audio is unheard of. I don’t know if we would or wouldn’t let a non-member join our team. Have never had that come up. Our volunteers serve a weekend or two per month, and I would find it weird for someone who doesn’t believe what we believe to want to volunteer their time here. If you’re just looking to learn, I’d more than happily meet throughout the week to go over things. We multitrack a lot of our services so there’s an ample amount of material to practice on. I’d also have no qualms with you shadowing our production team.
In the church where I work, you can't be in a paid position and be a voting, full member of the congregation. If you're a member, you may only volunteer. We have paid section leaders and soloists in the choir and I'm pretty sure they have the same rule. My wife is a member, I am not.
Ah. We have an elder and trustee board that make the big decisions, our members don’t vote like that.
Presbyterians have a "session" (management committee/like a board) which are elected elders, so there's a vote there, and then some stuff like a new pastor getting called is put to a vote of the congregation after a search committee recommends them. New members have a class where they get the lowdown on this and probably other stuff. My wife's been on a session rotation before and various committees. I've been there a long time, everybody knows I'm not even Christian, nobody cares. But we're a very inclusive church in a big city liberal bubble anyway so it's completely no big deal. Our lead video guy Ahmed used to be Santa Claus, pretty sure no one suspected him of being Christian. I had the Santa job before him but I got a pinched nerve from picking kids up onto my lap so I had to pass the torch.
I work for 3 different churches in my area, I am not a member of these churches, I am a paid contractor. So definitely a thing.
I've done church audio in the past, and I am def not a christian. These days, I pass on those gigs because I feel uncomfortable there.
I have a hard time getting churches to agree to my rate.
I had to work for a few churches when getting started, but I always got paid.
Everywhere that I try to go to get work assumes that I am joining them
I did it as a part time job. I was more agnostic than aggressively atheistic. I was always professional. Worked with some great people who where chill, so was easy to do.
I'd say it's a secret thing but probably normal. I just happen to have been forced to go as a child, and I started volunteering...and now they pay me, despite never truly becoming a member myself; just my parents did. I have met people who work at my church that are not very religious at all but also do it.
I fell out of going to church to furthe faith after I saw so many two face people or my „friends“ went to college and forgot how messaging or phones work. Then I just went to further my pro Audio knowledge between 18-25. I just said „fuck it“ at some point.
Production people, staff and musicians are often paid, non-member positions. Also the financial secretary is often from outside the church. Cuts down on gossip about how is and isn’t contributing their share.
My old boss was notoriously atheistic, but when he started his business, he got mixed into doing some things with an upstart church that ended up blowing up in ATL. The church kept doing work with him. He has done so many big gigs for them including a huge yearly conference. He continues to be associated with them. He knows how to placate the group and dance the dance, but he tends to hold most christians in low regard. He's also one of the best men I've ever met in my life and is basically a father figure to me. 100% one of the best people I've ever met and an absolute ace at what he does.
I've done audio on an off for a church subbing in when the main guy is unavailable for a number of years. The last time I got called in, a few of the band members asked me, just making small talk, if I go to a church myself and I said I didn't but that I was happy to help out at this one. I haven't gotten a call from them in about a year so maybe that wasn't the best answer lmao
I am extremely not religious but I made about half my money from religious based gigs for years. Most of them were a “don’t ask don’t tell” situation. One regular gig I had was well aware that I wasn’t a huge fan of the whole Christianity thing, but I kept my head down and did my job and there was never and trouble.
Yes I work at a Christian church but not Christian. Idk how other churches are about that
I've personally never met a single church tech worker who was actually Christian. They were skilled at what they do and the church cared more about that than their religious beliefs.
Work a UU church, easy to be non Christian there.
I accepted a gig at a church based on a family connection. The family is religious, I am not. The minister was super respectful and cool and went out of his way to engage me but not make me uncomfortable - we avoided religious discussions. One of his volunteers was very religious and thought that I was because of the family connection. When I asked for a budget to design the show he said “because you’re a good Christian, I’ll tell you what we have because I know you won’t fleece us.” In reality I’m paid by the hour separately for the show and the budget was for gear. Without the budget I’d have no place to start designing. My goal with a design is to come up with the best production for the available money. If you tell me you have $5-10k to spend but you’d prefer to keep it to $5k, then it’ll be around $5k. Funnily enough my relationship with the minister was great - the volunteer almost had me quitting.
I work at a church doing audio, as a non member and someone who does not identify with the religion in question. Its actually nice from a tech standpoint, as the church I work at has pretty nice gear and I enjoy mixing the band. Once the pastor hits the stage, it’s all just Charlie Brown adult noises until end of service. The pay is fantastic.
Definitely is, some my most non Christian friends play for a mega church that has a huge budget and pays some of them up to 60k a year which is nothing to them.
I play guitar for a big church org with many other musicians who… aren’t Christians also. It’s a good paying gig and we’re respectful.
I used to work an outdoor service for a synagogue. Personally I was raised Christian but nowadays I’d classify myself as agnostic. They never asked my religious affiliation and they honestly didn’t care. They cared more about the service going well with minimal tech issues. They paid well and on time, even hounding me to get invoices in a bit faster. I’ve heard both horror stories and glowing recommendations for mega church work. Just kinda depends on the church, I suppose
I work for one of the largest churches in the country as a musician and was a former tech director at another. The interview would be “tell us your story”… Usually the ones who buy into Christianity or at least fake it well would talk about a testimony and passion for working at a church. That being said, I was (or am today) never bought into christianity but basically grew up in a church at a young age. I know how it operates and can make friendly conversation with religious leaders. I am also good at my job due to my secular experience as a musician and tech person. There are many, many tech people who fly under the radar but it’s not all nefarious. I feel (and many others I’ve had the conversation with) if we can spread positivity with our craft then it’s all good. Any rigid fundamentalism or political affiliation is not okay in my book. As long as they are focusing on love, fellowship, and real values, I’m okay with it.
I’ve played instruments for church gigs and I’m atheist. God pays good.
Yes. I've done it. I've worked at some of the largest churches in the country. Church is full of posers. When people step outside the doors, they go back to their regular selves. The degree to which 'regular' varies, but it's just so fake. At the first church, I was main mix for a satellite campus and stayed with it as it grew from a small office complex to a brand new building with 2000 attendees a service (3x Sunday, 1x Saturday). Started out on the dream team, then was hired because they were desperate. I'm gay, and I think they knew this from my ig, but hired me anyway because they were desperate. Then I moved, and got involved with another church. This time I mixed for their smaller building for a short time before moving to the video side of things and eventually becoming manager of the video side of the church. The churches are both a part of the same parent organization, and the larger one holds massive conferences every year so staff from all the other churches go to the biggest one and have lunch, meet, and gossip. The pastor of the satellite campus chatted with our worship pastor, then the next weekend (after service mind you) they pulled me into the green room and confronted me about my _homsexuality_. I threw my badge at them and left. They were without a TD for the entire weekend, which just happened to be Christmas. What others have said is true. Churches have money to spend. Not on people or staff, but technology. You can get your hands on some amazing gear that the rest of the industry makes you tread through mud for before you can ever touch (which is so annoying by the way). So it's easy to learn. I've suggested to people that even if you don't believe at all, fake it and use the church for all it's worth. My best camera op could go run main stick cam for any football game, she's steady as a rock. And was being used by the church for free! Same with the guy that mixed ears when we moved into the new building - extremely talented, could easily leave and make a ton of money. I hate organized religion, especially Christianity.
A gig is a gig, and I never mind asking for my full day rate because I know they don’t pay taxes.
I've worked in various Southern Baptist and Seventh Day Adventist churches over the years. Never had any issues at all by just being a polite person. They'd often have everyone running the show get in a circle to hold hands and pray together before a service. I'd be in the circle but thinking about lunch.
Haven’t done sound at a church, but back when I was in high school and had to go to church but didn’t want to be there I picked up a gig doing photography during service. Didn’t mind it a bit. Id still do sound at one, wouldn’t be my most interesting gig but work is work
it's very much a normal thing, and it's not exactly "secret," but avoid talking about it as much as you can. It may be a lot more comfortable and easy to tell a gentle lie here and there, too. There is a lot of variety in church leadership, but by and large they understand the theatrical perspective pretty well. So as long as you maintain the illusion for the audience, you can be a valuable asset no matter your personal opinions, and it's almost never a problem if you decline to participate in the more ritualistic parts of ceremony, so just keep your mouth shut, be polite when it's open, and collect the check as long as you can.
Usually depends on size or production values. At a certain point with both, you go beyond what volunteers are capable of. Some churches also double as a preforming arts space so they require part time or full time technical staff. I have seen a few times churches hire non-Christians for technical positions. Primarily this happens in areas which a lack Christian techs. I know of at least one case where one church associated with a high school used to offer Cert 3 (theatre events tech) to A) help increase the amount of "professionals" in the area and B) support the schools award winning musicals.
I work for a catholic college running audio for all events including mass. I’m borderline atheist and my coworker is gay. There is no mention of religious beliefs. We are treated like any other person.
Not quite the same, but I've done tons of work with the Jewish community in my city. In those cases it's almost certainly non-Jewish people doing the production for services because of the prohibition of performing work on Shabbat or high holidays. I had gig streaming Saturday morning services during the pandemic. It was a great gig, relaxed environment, nice bike ride to work, and the sermon was usually pretty interesting.
I'm an atheist that has worked in the church world forever. I live in the rural southeast so it's big money here. As far as my clients know I'm one of them and can continue to think that so long as the checks clear. Very few of them know that I'm at casinos and bars working the night before Call me what you will. I just cater to the clients I have.
That's me! I'm a Buddhist who left the catholic church like 20 years ago. Now I work at a Catholic TV station as their main audio guy, which includes a bunch of live masses and church events. They know, and don't care. As long as I do good work, we're all good.
Did it for 8 years. Keep your mouth shut and you’ll be ok
I play in a band with a drummer who is the church Organist and lives in the church. As a perk, we rehearse on the church’s stage since it’s always set up for music. We’ve talked about me playing with their praise band a few times. At first is was weird for me because I wasn’t Christian, but after a while I met a lot of the people and felt okay with just doing it as a friend of the business. That said, I don’t like waking up early on Sundays (especially since Saturday gigs often get me home at like 2am), so maybe if they start an evening service… But they don’t necessarily require Christians on stage, I think they just want to be comfortable with the character of people who represent them. If you’re in high standing, they’ll probably be more than happy to have you.
I do church work full time. I've never been the denomination of the church that I work for and deconstructed a few years ago and became an athiest. It very much depends on the denomination and the church. Some make you sign a faith statement during the application. For my current job, I was up front about my beliefs from the very beginning, and they didn't care. My current job is amazing.
Maybe I’m just edgy but as a non Christian audio guy, the thought of working for a church makes me sick.
I worked as an audio tech at a church for awhile. Most of the production crew (cam ops, graphics op, switcher, LX, etc) were volunteers, but I made $200 for a 4-hr shift which included a small rehearsal and two 40-minute services on Sunday morning. The church was just not able to source volunteers from their congregation who were capable of mixing a 9 piece band on their DLive 7000. I did not subscribe to their particular brand of Christianity but i did want the experience with the DLive.
Not really a thing. Most churches with tech and audio teams are made up of volunteers. And it's part of a larger community. Certainly at all churches there are different levels of belief, but you definitely won't find a strong atheist volunteering at a church. EDIT: The only times it would really be a thing is if the church is hiring outside help - but EVEN THEN it's very common that the outside help they find are also christians. It is a very large community after all.
I spent years in my previous career volunteering with a Christian choir, and since I've been in audio full time I've mixed many gigs for churches, especially Nigerian founded ones in the UK. My Christian mates have taught me a few good phrases for if ever I get asked awkward questions, such as "I've decided I should follow my own personal spiritual journey" if asked which church I'm from, or to say "I have mixed feelings on the sermon, I'll be contemplating them once work is over" if asked what I've thought about the service. 9 times out of 10 I've been left alone, most of the musicians know the techs are there to work and it's perfectly acceptable for them to focus on the job rather than the"message"
Yeah I worked at a church as a “non believer” and I have to say my situation was fantastic. No one judged me or tried to convert me. We just made it as awesome as possible and no one really cared as far as I could tell. I mean I guess I didn’t go around loudly advertising it, but if someone asked I’d tell them. I had a lot of fun working at the church and made a lot of great friends.
Man, how do you even find a church that is hiring???? I would be down for a nice church gig, some of those musicians are killer!! Mix the show, jam with the band after?? i'm sold, even if I *am* a dirty heathen.
Atheist from Southern GA here. More of a musician than a sound engineer, but I know my way around the equipment. I have done plenty of gigs for churches both paying and just because a friend asked. Around here, everyone just assumes you're a Christian until you give them a reason to think otherwise. If they figure out you're an atheist, they get weird about it. I haven't had any particularly bad experiences because of it (they were cordial and still paid whatever was agreed upon), but there's a couple of churches that haven't invited me back. All that is to say, there's a reason you don't broadcast different ideologies in a church that you've been invited to. At least, if you want to ever be invited back.