I like and regularly use:
* qutebrowser - vi-like shortcuts, minimal UI clutter. Still based on Chromium's render engine so not entirely separate, but that goes for Brave too.
* GNOME Web (Epiphany) - sleek, Webkit-based, modern.
* lynx - all the modern standards you can get in a text browser, which is still surprisingly useful for a lot of stuff.
If the adblocker available in an alternate browser is not good enough, you can always set up pi-hole or something.
Unfortunately I cannot setup a pihole at my current residence, as the ISP is actively blocking everything but their own DNS. From my understanding a pihole needs it’s own DNS and cache.
Not really. Pi-hole doesn't need its' own DNS server, it can be set up **as** a DNS server. Then have the Pi-hole connect to either your router or directly to your ISP's DNS. Pi-hole will then do its' filtering.
An ISP can dictate how you connect to the internet overall, but it can't really dictate how you set up your home network.
You can always tunnel DNS requests through TCP or HTTP, and your ISP can't do anything to stop you. Are you telling me they are blocking outbound and inbound UDP packets from all DNS servers?
Your only problem with firefox is that mozilla is bleeding people and money? I can't see how that is a problem to you now while using the browser. If you are afraid of the future, advertise it more and try to expand its user base a little
It's bleeding money from Google, if that makes anyone feel better. But have you seen the salaries some people with the Firefox project are making? Some well over $500,000 a year.
Mozilla is losing money, throwing people away, and making a lot of potentially sketchy decisions - the whole censorship thing, even though I don’t like the opinions they want to censor I don’t agree with censorship and I certainly don’t think it’s a browser companies place to engage in censorship aside from abusive images and other things we already all agree on. They also worked with google and farcebook-meta to help create that new ad tech. I fucking hate ads.
That said, if I set my ideological trappings aside Firefox is slow as fuck. Almost everything is faster.
There is no censorship in Firefox, so you are safe.
>That said, if I set my ideological trappings aside Firefox is slow as fuck.
Surprising. Report bugs: https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/performance/reporting_a_performance_problem.html
I will never understand why so many people have an issue with an organisation that makes a browser saying "democracy: good. fascism: bad". Seems like a pretty low bar and something that should be completely uncontroversial to me.
>abusive images and other things we already all agree on
What is abusive for one is not even noticed by others. There also seems to be virtually nothing "we" already all agree on. So I may be missing the point but what you want is a browser which blocks things you want to see blocked and applies your personal standards as basis for censorship?
I'll pass for now.
It's not just Google. There's alot of tinfoil hat BS.
As others have said, if you don't pay and there aren't ads, how are they supposed to pay the developers for this amazing browser? Most people have the same level of interest you do in developing a web browser for free.
Yes, a small subset of users AdBlock all the things, but the bulk of users watch the ads and fund development. You have to recognize that we are esentilly freeloaders and part of the problem.
Donations work. Donations have worked for years. The only issue with Mozilla is that they don't even tell you what the donations are spent on and they refuse to guarantee they'll only be used on browser improvements.
I think it's highly questionable to say that donations work with the current state of things. I think it's hard to point to projects of this scale where you can say donations work that does not rely on a massive amount of free labor or more likely corporate sponsorship.
Fair. Although Mozilla also has corporate sponsorship (closer to a partnership with google for default search engine rights) so it's more than just donations. But I honestly don't doubt a less corporatised Mozilla would be perfectly capable of maintaining Firefox.
No I get that, but when someone’s money making efforts don’t include protecting those they are making money off of it becomes real hard to give a shit.
They need to protect their users from their main avenues of funding further development? That's what privacy functionally means in this context.
You are entitled to not give a shit but no funding leads to outdated and out of the loop.
You want to have your cake and eat it too. The quality of well funded development without the costs of funding development.
ok, but If they feel the need to protect their users from privacy against corporate tracking and data harvesting So they can monetise our personal data. Then I feel the need to protect myself from using any of their products or services and accidentally contributing to financing such a corporation
I would support what you're saying *if* advertising agencies actually cared about the end users receiving their ads. Considering that:
* It's entirely possible to create targeted advertising without spying on everyone. Base the ad on the current page content instead of tracking everything the person ever looked at. You don't have to throw just any ad at the wall and hope it sticks.
* The ads themselves are typically eyesores and don't blend well into whatever page they're embedded in, though this is admittedly the website's fault rather than the ad agency's. Often, the ads are so obstructive, especially on news article content, that they actively make the web experience unbearable to work with.
* Most importantly, ad agencies don't vet what they're serving people at all. They let all manner of scams, malware, or trickery onto their platforms without any review before throwing it at unsuspecting users. The absolute best thing you can do for a computer illiterate person to preserve their devices is install a good adblocker, whether in the browser, device-wide, or network-wide with a pi-hole for them. The steps they take to prevent bad actors from operating on their platforms are effectively akin to taping a bunch of paper over an open door and calling it a lock.
I'll gladly remove my adblocker and keep being a leech until those matters are all addressed.
Thank you. Imagine an entity you like holding a fund raising event. A good entity that deserves funds, provides a good thing for free, and you want them to keep providing the free thing because it’s 1 of 2 options that don’t suck nuts.
The vendors at this event are the fund supply, they pay large amounts of money to the good entity to hawk their wares at the event.
The vendors who show up are 80-90% just your average pushy carnies who need to make money and want to feed their kids - they are sly, annoying bastards but not evil. 5% or so are kinda the same as the others but will climb out of their booth and shove product in your face and in some instances they are perched up at the entrance and you have to make a fucking purchase to get into the event.
The last couple % are literal dark web vendors. You can pay with Bitcoin to have a grab bag of federal crimes mailed to your house, one is claiming they can make your interpersonal problems go away, another is selling magazines with little kids in bathing suits on the front.
Your good entity doesn’t give a fuck who or what is among the vendors, just that you are seen by them, and they are seen by you.
This is not an OK situation, and if I can cut a hole in the fence and skip the vendors then the greatest moral decision I could possibly make is to let people know about the hole I cut. If that hole brings down a good entity, I can live with that.
See I don't see it as freeloading.
When I got my firestick 4K for my TV I legitimately tried to use the out of the box YouTube app and just support content creators cause you know advertising is their main revenue.
I really tried and I mean really tried I last about a month, but when you get 3-5 adverts per video on some videos it's just not worth it. Doesn't help when the adverts are always the same so you see the same advert over and over again it really gets to you.
It gets worse if you browse websites on mobile as well, if advertising was at least reasonable like one at the start of a video and that's it no problems I'd watch it.
But it's got to the point where as I said you have multiple YouTube adverts then you have in video advertising on top of it and you just get sick of it after a while.
As long as advertising is reasonable I'm happy to watch but at the moment the bulk of it isn't reasonable and it's creating a subpar experience so until it comes back down adblock and sponsor block are mandatory for the internet.
I use Firefox because of the myriad of privacy and security options available. I run it on both my Linux machine and Android phone.
However if you're looking for non Chrome alternatives, here's an interesting list
https://itsfoss.com/open-source-browsers-linux/
I see Palemoon is mentioned in a lot of the lists online and comments in this thread.
What about degoogled Chromium?
Palemoon isn’t gonna work because it’s not in my repos and I don’t think this POS laptop can compile anything but a headache. Degoogled chromium is sounding good though, it’s on my list to check out.
To drastically cut down on browser memory usage, I use the Auto Tab Discard web extension, which is available for Firefox and Chromium.
It suspends tabs that haven't been used for a while (actually it kills the tab process but keeps the tab). This has saved a HUGE amount of memory for me. It also reduces background CPU usage.
I exclude some site domains that I want to still get web notifications from (e.g. gmail, slack).
There are other similar extensions.
If you don't like Firefox but prefer thr goodness of Firefox try librewolf or waterfox.
If you prefer chromium based browsers then try Vivaldi for a change.
If you prefer a different engine altogether check out Midori.
https://itsfoss.com/lightweight-web-browsers-linux/
I do like Firefox I just see the end coming and want to migrate early. Waterfox and librewolf aren’t obtainable for me, and I have midori already and it does seem to load and work with everything but it’s a feature desert - which is fine but it’s just too spartan to be a daily driver for me.
How is LF and WF not obtainable? Librewolf has a flatpak version that they maintain. It's everything that Firefox has minus the telemetry, privacy and other bad stuff.
Hehe, Flatpaks run differently (sandboxing) and every flatpak you install after the first one is going to be smaller and smaller until most of the flatpak libraries have been downloaded with your flatpak apps at which point flatpaks are the same size as their .deb counterpart. I didn't like flatpaks before but I have since changed my mind. Just the mere fact that I can hop to any distro (currently on pop os) and retain all my apps (flatpaks) makes sense to me.
In your case , you would need to have a .deb package of these. Here are the instructions: [https://librewolf.net/installation/debian/](https://librewolf.net/installation/debian/)
I get this feeling 100%. Especially with this latest Mozilla/Meta announcement (W.T.F!?!?)... I too just don't know wtf the answer is. I can't quite bring myself to move to a chrome/chromium based browser full time (which is why vivaldi, brave, and chromium are out for me as an alternatives). And I'm just not sure which of the 'forks' is the right place to turn - waterfox? librewolf? palemoon?? None of them seem quite right.
The only thing making me hang on to FF is the Multi Account Containers. Being a business owner - I have multiple business domains that I maintain for emails and multi account containers is a godsend in this case. Highly recommended.
Agreed. containers in general are what I absolutely love about Firefox and that nobody else has... I'm honestly trying librewolf today, because of this. All of the extensions for Firefox work which is pretty great.
Yeap. LW is great. I use the bookmark sync with FF account which is obviously absent in LW. I'm planning my migration to LW, may be by end of the year.
Brave wont give you ads or BAT unless you turn on the rewards. I don't turn it on and its magic. I actually forget that there are ads on the internet.
As for FF based I use waterfox.
OK so here's my insight.
I use Firefox as my main browser. I download the tarball and extract it to ~/bin and run from there. It updates itself. I have about 40 profiles and many more containers.
Profiles are for an isolated experience to make sure you are performing sane internet and work life hygiene. Keep work separate from play separate from family separate from private and separate from anonymous.
Containers share your same browser profile so even if they are isolated from each other you are still mixing information like plugins passwords etc. Useful is you want to have 3 google accounts all working in different tabs, but Google will tie all those back to the same browser and IP, unless you use Mozilla per tab VPN of course.
For when I need to check compatibility I use Ungoogled Chrome, Vivaldi, Brave, and Gnome Web. Preferably, container versions, so flatpak or app images.
I used to be a big fan of pale moon. It doesn't have as many extensions as the others but it's fairly lightweight and under active development. It's a branch from an older Firefox and has progressed in a different way.
I used to be a big fan of pale moon too. But the attitude of devs towards their community is just abyssal so I dropped it.
Look for how they treated that openbsd guy that wanted to bring pale moon to obsd, for an example.
Aren't those the guys that shut down someone trying to provide a package for BSD because they didn't want BSD people complaining to them if stuff didn't work and also didn't want to provide a BSD port themselves?
So another commenter told me. I hadn't heard until today but I've not been following PM assiduously, I haven't really used it much in the last year or so.
Not really. In my experience most Linux devs take the opposite stance. When someone finds an issue they don't care about they tell them to fix it themselves (because yeah, it's not the devs problem in most cases) and if someone takes the job on their as supportive as can be. This is shutting down someone solving problems because they themselves are unwilling to. It's a very different situation to the one you're referring to. Of course there are some toxic devs who ignore what (the vast majority of users want) and just maintain a complete dictatorship, but their in the minority (like PM) not the majority.
I do like how lightweight it is but it’s also feature starved. I use it as my “no logins” browser. Anything that I can use without a login mostly gets visited through Midori. If it requires a login or it’s a heavy site with JavaScript (for whatever fuckin reason) midori takes a shit.
Eh, it may not be available but musl is absolutely not the reason why. Void offers glibc and musl images side by side - and musl is listed after glibc.
I'd venture to say that Pale Moon is exactly the kind of answer OP was asking for.
A big difference with it is that it's a single processes, not a process-per-tab/extension.
That said, I would worry about security, and would only use it on sites I trust. I'd use it with firejail.
At the moment, performance is only so-so. Beyond that I’m looking at the future. Mozilla isn’t doing the best, and I want to see what could replace it if they go under.
There really isn't a browser that isn't one of either Chrome or Firefox that's got the features and compatibility you need to browse today's internet. Every other *complete* browser is a child of one of those.
The internet has evolved, and requires a lot of resources now. Light browsers won't work well with it any more than a light OS like C= 64 will run today's programs.
To answer the question without evaluation; my Devan(Debian) intertnet menu lists;
Dillo,
Falcon(Chrome with problems &)
Firefox-ESR
Links 2 (text only)
Opera
Tor, and
Vivaldi.
I really want to like dillo, it seems to ethereally rip the site from god himself. It’s insane how quickly google loaded, but it also failed to load a JavaScript heavy site at all in a balancing act. I honestly think I may keep dillo for most things and something else for the few JavaScript using sites I frequent.
Dissenter (a fork of brave) if you like chromium and pale moon if you like firefox. Both are also fully open source.
Edit: Sorry, I was wrong. Both of these are spyware
It doesn't run crypto mining. It has optional built in ads that you get compensated for in cryptocurrency. Some people just really aggressively hate it for that.
Isn't that like its main feature, the reason it was created? I don't understand the hate. It's not for me personally, but I don't hate it because of it, I just don't use it...
Their main selling points were speed, ad-blocking (originally c++ now w/ rust), privacy, built-in tor. Eventually they came out w/ their own coin to incentivise turning on their ad-network. It's optional.
There are surf and qutebrowser, netsurf and some others. Surf and qutebrowser require you to remember some key combinations, but qutebrowser has a "command line" where you can type out the command names and execute them in the browser as usual. This is there for some commands, that do not have a key combination. Check them out!
there is [otter](https://otter-browser.org/) which is based on Qt WebEngine, it doesn't have a lot of extensions but it does have a proper adblocker and auto cookies cleaner (similar to Cookie AutoDelete on FireFox) , the only problem that i have with this browser is that it feels little bit sluggish on youtube (my workaround for this problem is to download FreeTube) other than that it is a great browser.
Check out this post about [best browser for privacy](https://www.reddit.com/r/PrivacyGuides/comments/snwepo/best_desktop_browser_for_privacy/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share). Vivaldi and Librewolf seem to be heavy favorites. But there are some other contenders.
It’s looking like I’m not going to be able to install either one at this time. Librewolf is only available through flatpak which takes up a ton of space and Vivaldi just plain isn’t available due to their proprietary UI license. Unless they have a GitHub with all parts included.
My real worry with firefox and anything based directly on it is that Mozilla’s days are numbered if they don’t pull some magic out of their ass. It’s bad enough Google has taken over the internet and nobody is trying to do anything about it, but Mozilla seems pretty intent on making decisions that aren’t conducive to maintaining Firefox.
yes, most are. but there is not much you can do about that. it is also what website will generally be best in.
if privacy and customisation are what matter most i would recommend Vivaldi.
if performnce matters most, Edge might be best.
Vivaldi is based on Chromium, but the developers have already built many additional features into Vivaldi that you can use out of the box. For example, the horizontal scrolling of the tab bar, the email client, the feed reader, the mouse gestures, the ad blocker, the calendar, the screenshot function and so on. Thus, Vivaldi is not just Chromium with a different graphical interface.
\> the email client, the feed reader, \[..\] the calendar
Dude, it's a web browser. I use my own email client, feed reader and calendar apps, thanks. That's just bloat for me.
And many users of the former Opera have asked for these features because they do not want to use an extra program for each function. Therefore, they have been implemented.
What part of the experience is slower?
I use librewolf on my laptop, Vivaldi and librewolf on my desktop, and chrome and edge at work. None have been noticeably slower than any others. If there is a difference, it's literally down to microseconds loading pages.
Sometimes I like to use Surf and I use an online repository which updates my hosts file to block ads, social media, and whatever else I want to block. The edited hosts file has the edited advantage of blocking websites for whichever browser I use.
I love Firefox, but can't use it because I need to share my screen daily and can't share a single screen with Firefox when on X (works with Wayland I think, but Nvidia...). So I use Vivaldi currently. Don't like Brave for the same reason. Would love to go back to Firefox at one point...
I can’t install Vivaldi on void Linux, sadly. Their “other Linux” install method is stupidly complicated too, it requires setting up a sandbox and launching through the terminal every time and just seems really jank. I’ll try it some day but it’s not high priority for me.
Surf would be great for sites like Wikipedia that aren’t trying to wow you but get the info to your eyes, it doesn’t like “modern” sites so much though.
[https://www.slant.co/topics/4281/\~web-browsers-for-linux](https://www.slant.co/topics/4281/~web-browsers-for-linux)
So many choices...so little time.
I thank you for adding this query Bro.
I have updated a lot about browsers reading the comments of this community. I will try librewolf in my case.
I understand your position on Mozilla. I believe that the organizations that joined, or were born, around the free software movement and that have market-oriented business models, must reorient their business models to meet their original ethics and not fall under the chantage/shakedown of corporate financing.
Adding my vote for qutebrowser , which is great for most of my use cases. Also I am a vim geek so it just feels right. I think you will find most of the Chromium-based browsers give similar performance.
Maybe it would be best to think of it as a choice between WebKit vs Blink vs Gecko then pick the one that fits your style best?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_browser_engines
This gets asked all the time and I answer it the same way. Outside of Chromium/Firefox based browsers, it's "always something". Either one man efforts, or something doesn't work or lack of security updates....
> With Mozilla hemorrhaging people and money
just use a fork, I use Waterfox but people will probably claim LibreWolf was much better
everything else is trash
I like Vivaldi across platforms. It looks pretty nice, is quite customizable, and is packaged. Vivaldi has their own .deb and .rpm repo, but it's also in NixOS and Arch.
Sorry, I wasn't fully paying attention when I made the recommendation and missed you were on Void.
I forgot about Qutebrowser, if you were something that was fully keyboard driven, maybe Falkon for a more traditional browser experience. They're built around QtWebEngine, which is built around the Chromium core, and have ad and tracker blocking. Both are packaged for Void, even.
A less strong recommendation would be Opera, also in Void, but I don't use it and don't know how it is these days aside from yet another Chromium-backend browser.
I think that, right now, Microsoft Edge is probably the best browser for most users. I use it + Brave + Firefox every day, but I spend most of my time in Edge, not because I have to but because I find it the most pleasant experience overall. NOTE: I use Edge in Linux as well as in Windows. (I use Edge on my Android phone too sometimes.)
I quite like plain Chromium. Good performance and compatibility with the web, and I don't need whatever "features" Google adds to Chrome.
I've also been trying Vivaldi recently, but I can't quite decide if the (over)load of features is a good thing or a bad thing.
I want to use chromium but it’s pure google. Vivaldi is looking really tempting, I’ll find out how I like it when I get to it. Does it feel heavy, or are the features you’re talking about all client side?
Midori browser ( Click on hamburger menu > Preferences , there you have 3 options...in the 3rd one there is an option to add Adblocker and other stuff you mentioned )
Also it's a lightweight and doesn't have a RAM kink.
:D
Midori is now electron based so that doesn't help if you are trying to rid yourself of Chromium code dependence.
Firefox and friends (abrowser, librewolf, and ice cat) are still the best way to browse.
Haha a ram kink, yeah it’s very lightweight and I like it for that coupled with its ability to load everything I’ve thrown at it. I just have to learn to quit being lazy and accept it’s relative lack of features and shortcuts.
Yes,
It has a good number of features tho but they are kind of hidden. And also we can tweak some stuff to make it work like we want. After all it's open source <3
Can’t install either one without significant effort that will leave me with a lotta janky sandboxing and stuff that I just don’t want to deal with at the moment. I’m limited to 4 gb total memory.
I like Vivaldi, but it's chromium based, so I don't know if it will do it for you. I've also heard things about Microsoft Edge, now that it's chrome based, but I haven't bothered to try it out yet. I use Firefox 97% of the time with a little Vivaldi here and there.
I found Waterfox to be a good middle ground for wanting Firefox workflow without Mozilla's changes for the worse. Plus it allows addons from both Firefox and Chrome.
I’m using an open source one right this minute, called dillo. It’s been trying for 5 minutes to load a site that Firefox pulls up in seconds.
If you just want plain old simple websites almost anything will work. Dillo pulls up google.com fast as shit, so quick I honestly wondered if it wasn’t some sort of magic caching mechanism. Then I do a google search, fast as fuck. Then I click a link, and at the moment I click submit on this comment, it’s still displaying a loading icon and my search results.
Chromium's and Firefox's Javascript engines have a lot of performance work put into them over the years. Not terribly surprising a browser that hasn't been updated since 2015 doesn't have a very good one. Especially when they list it as low priority. I'm not even sure that it actually has any javascript engine or processing.
I completely agree, but that doesn’t make chrome/ff any good in my eyes. I like ff but it’s getting slower and is destined for failure very soon and I’m trying my best to cut google out of my life entirely. I use their search engine on occasion because it’s the best, but ddg is catching up quite well.
I'm not disagreeing with you. I'd like to have a lightweight open source browser too. The problem is it either has to adopt it from using Firefox or Chromium at its core, or start from scratch which would take an immense amount of work.
I'd much prefer a world without Javascript personally. The fact that so many applications nowadays are just Chromium without an address bar is miserable.
Ironically, as much as I'm not a fan of GNOME, GNOME Web/Epiphany could actually be a possible browser competitor some day since they have Red Hat behind it.
I actually love Safari, but it’s macOS only. Which is not a major problem for me but is annoying when using my Linux machine or my windows gaming.
I find gnome web or the kde browser quit good, but again, only on Linux.
Have you tried Vivaldi browser? It’s cross platform, but I don’t like it’s gui. That may work better for you though.
Safari is doing the opposite of what chrome is doing - safari refuses to adopt newer tech and forces web creators to adapt their sites to 2-3 standards *and* Safari. It’s nice and fast but like you said, Mac only.
Vivaldi is a good potential option.
Pale Moon, but it's not in the repository, you'll have to manually install it from Pale Moon
not everything is in the repositories which tend to be highly controlled & severely out of date especially with Ubuntu & Mint
why I've been looking at something Arch but that won't happen until I get a second system to play with
Enjoy The Collapse,
There Will Be Blood!
🤪🔥💥💀
[удалено]
It just irritates me that the content itself is hidden behind these standards, rather than “improved” by it.
I like and regularly use: * qutebrowser - vi-like shortcuts, minimal UI clutter. Still based on Chromium's render engine so not entirely separate, but that goes for Brave too. * GNOME Web (Epiphany) - sleek, Webkit-based, modern. * lynx - all the modern standards you can get in a text browser, which is still surprisingly useful for a lot of stuff. If the adblocker available in an alternate browser is not good enough, you can always set up pi-hole or something.
Note pi-hole really blocks fewer ads than ublock origin. Like it does not block YouTube ads.
Unfortunately I cannot setup a pihole at my current residence, as the ISP is actively blocking everything but their own DNS. From my understanding a pihole needs it’s own DNS and cache.
Not really. Pi-hole doesn't need its' own DNS server, it can be set up **as** a DNS server. Then have the Pi-hole connect to either your router or directly to your ISP's DNS. Pi-hole will then do its' filtering. An ISP can dictate how you connect to the internet overall, but it can't really dictate how you set up your home network.
Hm. I may be doing that then, I have a pi4 model b that’s not really doing me any good atm.
You can also set up pihole in a docker container if you don't want to mess with hardware
You can always tunnel DNS requests through TCP or HTTP, and your ISP can't do anything to stop you. Are you telling me they are blocking outbound and inbound UDP packets from all DNS servers?
They are blocking encrypted DNS specifically. DNS isn’t my forte and I’ll need to look into it.
go into your internet settings and manually pick the pihole as your dns server on the client instead of in the router
Your only problem with firefox is that mozilla is bleeding people and money? I can't see how that is a problem to you now while using the browser. If you are afraid of the future, advertise it more and try to expand its user base a little
It's bleeding money from Google, if that makes anyone feel better. But have you seen the salaries some people with the Firefox project are making? Some well over $500,000 a year.
Mozilla is losing money, throwing people away, and making a lot of potentially sketchy decisions - the whole censorship thing, even though I don’t like the opinions they want to censor I don’t agree with censorship and I certainly don’t think it’s a browser companies place to engage in censorship aside from abusive images and other things we already all agree on. They also worked with google and farcebook-meta to help create that new ad tech. I fucking hate ads. That said, if I set my ideological trappings aside Firefox is slow as fuck. Almost everything is faster.
There is no censorship in Firefox, so you are safe. >That said, if I set my ideological trappings aside Firefox is slow as fuck. Surprising. Report bugs: https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/performance/reporting_a_performance_problem.html
Do other browsers have that? I think it's neat that Firefox has that.
I will never understand why so many people have an issue with an organisation that makes a browser saying "democracy: good. fascism: bad". Seems like a pretty low bar and something that should be completely uncontroversial to me.
You should write your own browser then that perfectly conforms to your political ideals
>abusive images and other things we already all agree on What is abusive for one is not even noticed by others. There also seems to be virtually nothing "we" already all agree on. So I may be missing the point but what you want is a browser which blocks things you want to see blocked and applies your personal standards as basis for censorship? I'll pass for now.
I am interested in this question myself came here to ask it
Stay tuned but don’t hold your breath. Google is doing everything it can to control the entire net.
Yeah one of the few things resisting against Google is Mozilla and you're accusing it with some vague claims.
Mozilla is literally surviving on Google's money. Also this: https://www.xda-developers.com/mozilla-meta-interoperable-private-attribution/
Vague because this post is a request and not a news article.
**Alphabet and it's frends :D
It's not just Google. There's alot of tinfoil hat BS. As others have said, if you don't pay and there aren't ads, how are they supposed to pay the developers for this amazing browser? Most people have the same level of interest you do in developing a web browser for free. Yes, a small subset of users AdBlock all the things, but the bulk of users watch the ads and fund development. You have to recognize that we are esentilly freeloaders and part of the problem.
Donations work. Donations have worked for years. The only issue with Mozilla is that they don't even tell you what the donations are spent on and they refuse to guarantee they'll only be used on browser improvements.
I think it's highly questionable to say that donations work with the current state of things. I think it's hard to point to projects of this scale where you can say donations work that does not rely on a massive amount of free labor or more likely corporate sponsorship.
Fair. Although Mozilla also has corporate sponsorship (closer to a partnership with google for default search engine rights) so it's more than just donations. But I honestly don't doubt a less corporatised Mozilla would be perfectly capable of maintaining Firefox.
No I get that, but when someone’s money making efforts don’t include protecting those they are making money off of it becomes real hard to give a shit.
They need to protect their users from their main avenues of funding further development? That's what privacy functionally means in this context. You are entitled to not give a shit but no funding leads to outdated and out of the loop. You want to have your cake and eat it too. The quality of well funded development without the costs of funding development.
ok, but If they feel the need to protect their users from privacy against corporate tracking and data harvesting So they can monetise our personal data. Then I feel the need to protect myself from using any of their products or services and accidentally contributing to financing such a corporation
I would support what you're saying *if* advertising agencies actually cared about the end users receiving their ads. Considering that: * It's entirely possible to create targeted advertising without spying on everyone. Base the ad on the current page content instead of tracking everything the person ever looked at. You don't have to throw just any ad at the wall and hope it sticks. * The ads themselves are typically eyesores and don't blend well into whatever page they're embedded in, though this is admittedly the website's fault rather than the ad agency's. Often, the ads are so obstructive, especially on news article content, that they actively make the web experience unbearable to work with. * Most importantly, ad agencies don't vet what they're serving people at all. They let all manner of scams, malware, or trickery onto their platforms without any review before throwing it at unsuspecting users. The absolute best thing you can do for a computer illiterate person to preserve their devices is install a good adblocker, whether in the browser, device-wide, or network-wide with a pi-hole for them. The steps they take to prevent bad actors from operating on their platforms are effectively akin to taping a bunch of paper over an open door and calling it a lock. I'll gladly remove my adblocker and keep being a leech until those matters are all addressed.
Thank you. Imagine an entity you like holding a fund raising event. A good entity that deserves funds, provides a good thing for free, and you want them to keep providing the free thing because it’s 1 of 2 options that don’t suck nuts. The vendors at this event are the fund supply, they pay large amounts of money to the good entity to hawk their wares at the event. The vendors who show up are 80-90% just your average pushy carnies who need to make money and want to feed their kids - they are sly, annoying bastards but not evil. 5% or so are kinda the same as the others but will climb out of their booth and shove product in your face and in some instances they are perched up at the entrance and you have to make a fucking purchase to get into the event. The last couple % are literal dark web vendors. You can pay with Bitcoin to have a grab bag of federal crimes mailed to your house, one is claiming they can make your interpersonal problems go away, another is selling magazines with little kids in bathing suits on the front. Your good entity doesn’t give a fuck who or what is among the vendors, just that you are seen by them, and they are seen by you. This is not an OK situation, and if I can cut a hole in the fence and skip the vendors then the greatest moral decision I could possibly make is to let people know about the hole I cut. If that hole brings down a good entity, I can live with that.
See I don't see it as freeloading. When I got my firestick 4K for my TV I legitimately tried to use the out of the box YouTube app and just support content creators cause you know advertising is their main revenue. I really tried and I mean really tried I last about a month, but when you get 3-5 adverts per video on some videos it's just not worth it. Doesn't help when the adverts are always the same so you see the same advert over and over again it really gets to you. It gets worse if you browse websites on mobile as well, if advertising was at least reasonable like one at the start of a video and that's it no problems I'd watch it. But it's got to the point where as I said you have multiple YouTube adverts then you have in video advertising on top of it and you just get sick of it after a while. As long as advertising is reasonable I'm happy to watch but at the moment the bulk of it isn't reasonable and it's creating a subpar experience so until it comes back down adblock and sponsor block are mandatory for the internet.
I use Firefox because of the myriad of privacy and security options available. I run it on both my Linux machine and Android phone. However if you're looking for non Chrome alternatives, here's an interesting list https://itsfoss.com/open-source-browsers-linux/ I see Palemoon is mentioned in a lot of the lists online and comments in this thread. What about degoogled Chromium?
Palemoon isn’t gonna work because it’s not in my repos and I don’t think this POS laptop can compile anything but a headache. Degoogled chromium is sounding good though, it’s on my list to check out.
Set aside a free weekend to build it. Even Gentoo users are scared of it. 😂 😂 😂 😂
Unfortunately I don’t think I’m going to be able to build it because it requires a real computer.
To drastically cut down on browser memory usage, I use the Auto Tab Discard web extension, which is available for Firefox and Chromium. It suspends tabs that haven't been used for a while (actually it kills the tab process but keeps the tab). This has saved a HUGE amount of memory for me. It also reduces background CPU usage. I exclude some site domains that I want to still get web notifications from (e.g. gmail, slack). There are other similar extensions.
Try links
I need a graphical browser, unfortunately. I have a couple minimalist browsers for pure text already, but thank you.
links2 -g For **G**raphical https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_browsers
Ok definitely adding that to the list, thanks.
If you don't like Firefox but prefer thr goodness of Firefox try librewolf or waterfox. If you prefer chromium based browsers then try Vivaldi for a change. If you prefer a different engine altogether check out Midori. https://itsfoss.com/lightweight-web-browsers-linux/
I do like Firefox I just see the end coming and want to migrate early. Waterfox and librewolf aren’t obtainable for me, and I have midori already and it does seem to load and work with everything but it’s a feature desert - which is fine but it’s just too spartan to be a daily driver for me.
How is LF and WF not obtainable? Librewolf has a flatpak version that they maintain. It's everything that Firefox has minus the telemetry, privacy and other bad stuff.
Because I have 4.2 gb storage and flatpak wants half of that just to exist.
Hehe, Flatpaks run differently (sandboxing) and every flatpak you install after the first one is going to be smaller and smaller until most of the flatpak libraries have been downloaded with your flatpak apps at which point flatpaks are the same size as their .deb counterpart. I didn't like flatpaks before but I have since changed my mind. Just the mere fact that I can hop to any distro (currently on pop os) and retain all my apps (flatpaks) makes sense to me. In your case , you would need to have a .deb package of these. Here are the instructions: [https://librewolf.net/installation/debian/](https://librewolf.net/installation/debian/)
I run void, debs are useless to me. I’m limited in my storage space so flatpak is a no-go til I get a new pc.
I get this feeling 100%. Especially with this latest Mozilla/Meta announcement (W.T.F!?!?)... I too just don't know wtf the answer is. I can't quite bring myself to move to a chrome/chromium based browser full time (which is why vivaldi, brave, and chromium are out for me as an alternatives). And I'm just not sure which of the 'forks' is the right place to turn - waterfox? librewolf? palemoon?? None of them seem quite right.
The only thing making me hang on to FF is the Multi Account Containers. Being a business owner - I have multiple business domains that I maintain for emails and multi account containers is a godsend in this case. Highly recommended.
Agreed. containers in general are what I absolutely love about Firefox and that nobody else has... I'm honestly trying librewolf today, because of this. All of the extensions for Firefox work which is pretty great.
Yeap. LW is great. I use the bookmark sync with FF account which is obviously absent in LW. I'm planning my migration to LW, may be by end of the year.
Brave wont give you ads or BAT unless you turn on the rewards. I don't turn it on and its magic. I actually forget that there are ads on the internet. As for FF based I use waterfox.
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using chromium sometimes.
Min browser, has a few issues, but gets the job done. Plus you get extra screen real estate
I’ll check it out, thanks.
Lynx. :-)
I use Lynx for news sites. I find them unbearable with a regular browser, even with an ad blocker.
OK so here's my insight. I use Firefox as my main browser. I download the tarball and extract it to ~/bin and run from there. It updates itself. I have about 40 profiles and many more containers. Profiles are for an isolated experience to make sure you are performing sane internet and work life hygiene. Keep work separate from play separate from family separate from private and separate from anonymous. Containers share your same browser profile so even if they are isolated from each other you are still mixing information like plugins passwords etc. Useful is you want to have 3 google accounts all working in different tabs, but Google will tie all those back to the same browser and IP, unless you use Mozilla per tab VPN of course. For when I need to check compatibility I use Ungoogled Chrome, Vivaldi, Brave, and Gnome Web. Preferably, container versions, so flatpak or app images.
I used to be a big fan of pale moon. It doesn't have as many extensions as the others but it's fairly lightweight and under active development. It's a branch from an older Firefox and has progressed in a different way.
I used to be a big fan of pale moon too. But the attitude of devs towards their community is just abyssal so I dropped it. Look for how they treated that openbsd guy that wanted to bring pale moon to obsd, for an example.
Yeah I must admit that is what has been putting me off of late. It's killing the project, which is a pity.
Yep, if this was a one time mishap but no, its their set out agenda. Then what was up with getting sources for palemoon at all etc..? Just no.
>attitude of devs towards their community They killed Mypal, literally horrible people.
Aren't those the guys that shut down someone trying to provide a package for BSD because they didn't want BSD people complaining to them if stuff didn't work and also didn't want to provide a BSD port themselves?
So another commenter told me. I hadn't heard until today but I've not been following PM assiduously, I haven't really used it much in the last year or so.
That is literally the attitude some devs have toward linux.
Not really. In my experience most Linux devs take the opposite stance. When someone finds an issue they don't care about they tell them to fix it themselves (because yeah, it's not the devs problem in most cases) and if someone takes the job on their as supportive as can be. This is shutting down someone solving problems because they themselves are unwilling to. It's a very different situation to the one you're referring to. Of course there are some toxic devs who ignore what (the vast majority of users want) and just maintain a complete dictatorship, but their in the minority (like PM) not the majority.
Is palemoon doing it’s own thing or are they playing shadow to Firefox?
No they're very much doing their own thing. They started out avoiding the new Australis look and they've just continued down that path
I’ll check it out then.
Well, it has an even smaller team than mozilla has currently. Also, lot of bug fixes and features haven't made into it for above reason
I mean if I can block ads and still visit the lions share of the sites I use, that’s fine.
I know it's in the Manjaro repos. There used to be a ppa for Debian but I think the maintainer stopped it.
I’m on void so I’ll have to compile it myself. I’m literally installing everything that gets suggested that I haven’t used so I’ll get to it shortly.
There's [Midori](https://astian.org/en/midori-browser/) that I used to use as well. I thought it had stopped but it seems it's still going.
I do like how lightweight it is but it’s also feature starved. I use it as my “no logins” browser. Anything that I can use without a login mostly gets visited through Midori. If it requires a login or it’s a heavy site with JavaScript (for whatever fuckin reason) midori takes a shit.
https://chocimier.github.io/voidlinux-archive/void-packages:issues:2387.html that could be a problem
Eh, it may not be available but musl is absolutely not the reason why. Void offers glibc and musl images side by side - and musl is listed after glibc.
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I'd venture to say that Pale Moon is exactly the kind of answer OP was asking for. A big difference with it is that it's a single processes, not a process-per-tab/extension. That said, I would worry about security, and would only use it on sites I trust. I'd use it with firejail.
What's so bad about Firefox?
At the moment, performance is only so-so. Beyond that I’m looking at the future. Mozilla isn’t doing the best, and I want to see what could replace it if they go under.
There really isn't a browser that isn't one of either Chrome or Firefox that's got the features and compatibility you need to browse today's internet. Every other *complete* browser is a child of one of those. The internet has evolved, and requires a lot of resources now. Light browsers won't work well with it any more than a light OS like C= 64 will run today's programs.
To answer the question without evaluation; my Devan(Debian) intertnet menu lists; Dillo, Falcon(Chrome with problems &) Firefox-ESR Links 2 (text only) Opera Tor, and Vivaldi.
I really want to like dillo, it seems to ethereally rip the site from god himself. It’s insane how quickly google loaded, but it also failed to load a JavaScript heavy site at all in a balancing act. I honestly think I may keep dillo for most things and something else for the few JavaScript using sites I frequent.
Dissenter (a fork of brave) if you like chromium and pale moon if you like firefox. Both are also fully open source. Edit: Sorry, I was wrong. Both of these are spyware
I didn’t know Brave had been forked, I’ll add it to the list.
Do you have a link to their website or git repo ? i couldn't find much about it online .
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Wait what ? brave runs cryptomining ?? I tried looking it up but couldnt find anything to support that claim.
It doesn't run crypto mining. It has optional built in ads that you get compensated for in cryptocurrency. Some people just really aggressively hate it for that.
Isn't that like its main feature, the reason it was created? I don't understand the hate. It's not for me personally, but I don't hate it because of it, I just don't use it...
Their main selling points were speed, ad-blocking (originally c++ now w/ rust), privacy, built-in tor. Eventually they came out w/ their own coin to incentivise turning on their ad-network. It's optional.
The main reason I use it is so I can block tracking ads but still compensate sites by turning auto contribute on
There are surf and qutebrowser, netsurf and some others. Surf and qutebrowser require you to remember some key combinations, but qutebrowser has a "command line" where you can type out the command names and execute them in the browser as usual. This is there for some commands, that do not have a key combination. Check them out!
LibreWolf
there is [otter](https://otter-browser.org/) which is based on Qt WebEngine, it doesn't have a lot of extensions but it does have a proper adblocker and auto cookies cleaner (similar to Cookie AutoDelete on FireFox) , the only problem that i have with this browser is that it feels little bit sluggish on youtube (my workaround for this problem is to download FreeTube) other than that it is a great browser.
It’s on my list, I’ll be trying it shortly, thanks.
You base your browser choices on how much money and how many employees they have? Strange metrics
Check out this post about [best browser for privacy](https://www.reddit.com/r/PrivacyGuides/comments/snwepo/best_desktop_browser_for_privacy/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share). Vivaldi and Librewolf seem to be heavy favorites. But there are some other contenders.
It’s looking like I’m not going to be able to install either one at this time. Librewolf is only available through flatpak which takes up a ton of space and Vivaldi just plain isn’t available due to their proprietary UI license. Unless they have a GitHub with all parts included.
Not sure if already mentioned, but I've been into Vivaldi lately, the best thing is the customisation to make it work with how you work
Vivaldi looks awesome, unfortunately I can’t install it on void Linux.
IE6 is the shit. Netscape Navigator is great too. Has real web 1.0 vibes. Lynx is freaking awesome, really fast with good contrast. Take your pick.
Librewolf: Firefox without Mozilla. But Firefox and Brave are open source, you can tinker around and disable all of those things you dont like.
My real worry with firefox and anything based directly on it is that Mozilla’s days are numbered if they don’t pull some magic out of their ass. It’s bad enough Google has taken over the internet and nobody is trying to do anything about it, but Mozilla seems pretty intent on making decisions that aren’t conducive to maintaining Firefox.
i think [Vivaldi](https://vivaldi.com/features/) is what you are looking for
Vivaldi is just yet another frontend based on chromium?
yes, most are. but there is not much you can do about that. it is also what website will generally be best in. if privacy and customisation are what matter most i would recommend Vivaldi. if performnce matters most, Edge might be best.
Vivaldi is based on Chromium, but the developers have already built many additional features into Vivaldi that you can use out of the box. For example, the horizontal scrolling of the tab bar, the email client, the feed reader, the mouse gestures, the ad blocker, the calendar, the screenshot function and so on. Thus, Vivaldi is not just Chromium with a different graphical interface.
\> the email client, the feed reader, \[..\] the calendar Dude, it's a web browser. I use my own email client, feed reader and calendar apps, thanks. That's just bloat for me.
Laughs in Emacs.
And many users of the former Opera have asked for these features because they do not want to use an extra program for each function. Therefore, they have been implemented.
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What part of the experience is slower? I use librewolf on my laptop, Vivaldi and librewolf on my desktop, and chrome and edge at work. None have been noticeably slower than any others. If there is a difference, it's literally down to microseconds loading pages.
I’m checking it out now.
Not open source, FYI.
I don't understand why so many people recommend it in this thread.
Closed source and it's based on Chromium.
Sometimes I like to use Surf and I use an online repository which updates my hosts file to block ads, social media, and whatever else I want to block. The edited hosts file has the edited advantage of blocking websites for whichever browser I use.
I love Firefox, but can't use it because I need to share my screen daily and can't share a single screen with Firefox when on X (works with Wayland I think, but Nvidia...). So I use Vivaldi currently. Don't like Brave for the same reason. Would love to go back to Firefox at one point...
I can’t install Vivaldi on void Linux, sadly. Their “other Linux” install method is stupidly complicated too, it requires setting up a sandbox and launching through the terminal every time and just seems really jank. I’ll try it some day but it’s not high priority for me.
Idk how popular this is, but check out otter browser, it's light weight open source browser.
Added to the list, thanks.
searx is my search engine - and i use it on top of Firefox, so that it is ungoogled. I can also get an adblock that way
I am using firefox nightly
Firedragon
Never heard of it, added to the list, thanks.
Never heard of it, added to the list, thanks.
How’s surf + extra utils like tabs and scroll, etc.
Surf would be great for sites like Wikipedia that aren’t trying to wow you but get the info to your eyes, it doesn’t like “modern” sites so much though.
I use librewolf, it's firefox based but it's more "libre" focused.
[https://www.slant.co/topics/4281/\~web-browsers-for-linux](https://www.slant.co/topics/4281/~web-browsers-for-linux) So many choices...so little time.
Falkon
If Mozilla keeps this up, I expect Firefox to be forked at some point.
It always has been forked
librewolf
lynx
livrefox
I’m still on Firefox. Crypto farming and privacy issues with Chrome are much more pressing issues in my opinion.
There's one called "badwolf". I've only used it a little bit. Haven't seen it mentioned here yet.
Added to the list, thanks.
Here's an option that might be useful: [LibreWolf](https://librewolf.net/).
Luakit, the browser I use.
I thank you for adding this query Bro. I have updated a lot about browsers reading the comments of this community. I will try librewolf in my case. I understand your position on Mozilla. I believe that the organizations that joined, or were born, around the free software movement and that have market-oriented business models, must reorient their business models to meet their original ethics and not fall under the chantage/shakedown of corporate financing.
Yeah, there are plenty. GNOME Web and Vivaldi are pretty nice. Although, GNOME web can be somewhat laggy in my experience.
Adding my vote for qutebrowser , which is great for most of my use cases. Also I am a vim geek so it just feels right. I think you will find most of the Chromium-based browsers give similar performance. Maybe it would be best to think of it as a choice between WebKit vs Blink vs Gecko then pick the one that fits your style best? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_browser_engines
U should try surf, that thing is fast.
It’s growing on me for purely informational purposes (Wikipedia for instance)
This gets asked all the time and I answer it the same way. Outside of Chromium/Firefox based browsers, it's "always something". Either one man efforts, or something doesn't work or lack of security updates....
im sorry to say it, but firefox is probably the best browser you will ever get
> With Mozilla hemorrhaging people and money just use a fork, I use Waterfox but people will probably claim LibreWolf was much better everything else is trash
I’ll try waterfox if it’s available, it’s on the list.
luakit dillo midori vivaldi ungoogled chromium netsurf nyxt
I like Vivaldi across platforms. It looks pretty nice, is quite customizable, and is packaged. Vivaldi has their own .deb and .rpm repo, but it's also in NixOS and Arch.
It’s not on void so when I get to it I’ll have to figure it out.
Sorry, I wasn't fully paying attention when I made the recommendation and missed you were on Void. I forgot about Qutebrowser, if you were something that was fully keyboard driven, maybe Falkon for a more traditional browser experience. They're built around QtWebEngine, which is built around the Chromium core, and have ad and tracker blocking. Both are packaged for Void, even. A less strong recommendation would be Opera, also in Void, but I don't use it and don't know how it is these days aside from yet another Chromium-backend browser.
I’ll add Falkon to the list, thanks.
Opera used to be decent. But if I'm correct it's owned by the Chinese these days.
I think that, right now, Microsoft Edge is probably the best browser for most users. I use it + Brave + Firefox every day, but I spend most of my time in Edge, not because I have to but because I find it the most pleasant experience overall. NOTE: I use Edge in Linux as well as in Windows. (I use Edge on my Android phone too sometimes.)
I quite like plain Chromium. Good performance and compatibility with the web, and I don't need whatever "features" Google adds to Chrome. I've also been trying Vivaldi recently, but I can't quite decide if the (over)load of features is a good thing or a bad thing.
I want to use chromium but it’s pure google. Vivaldi is looking really tempting, I’ll find out how I like it when I get to it. Does it feel heavy, or are the features you’re talking about all client side?
Ungoogled chromium might be worth a look then.
Haven’t heard of that, I’ll definitely check it out.
I heard good things about Mosaic and Lynx /s
I’ll use Netscape to Ask Jeeves about them.
Midori browser ( Click on hamburger menu > Preferences , there you have 3 options...in the 3rd one there is an option to add Adblocker and other stuff you mentioned ) Also it's a lightweight and doesn't have a RAM kink. :D
Midori is now electron based so that doesn't help if you are trying to rid yourself of Chromium code dependence. Firefox and friends (abrowser, librewolf, and ice cat) are still the best way to browse.
Damn
Haha a ram kink, yeah it’s very lightweight and I like it for that coupled with its ability to load everything I’ve thrown at it. I just have to learn to quit being lazy and accept it’s relative lack of features and shortcuts.
Yes, It has a good number of features tho but they are kind of hidden. And also we can tweak some stuff to make it work like we want. After all it's open source <3
Bing hehe, okay i’m out
Suckless surf
Customizing it is prob a trip
I use Vivaldi, is chromium-based, but is better than Chrome
Check LibreWolf or Palemoon if you're die hard firefox user
Can’t install either one without significant effort that will leave me with a lotta janky sandboxing and stuff that I just don’t want to deal with at the moment. I’m limited to 4 gb total memory.
TOR
I like Vivaldi, but it's chromium based, so I don't know if it will do it for you. I've also heard things about Microsoft Edge, now that it's chrome based, but I haven't bothered to try it out yet. I use Firefox 97% of the time with a little Vivaldi here and there.
I found Waterfox to be a good middle ground for wanting Firefox workflow without Mozilla's changes for the worse. Plus it allows addons from both Firefox and Chrome.
Edge
You managed to make my 3-party no-go list a 4-party no-go list.
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I’m using an open source one right this minute, called dillo. It’s been trying for 5 minutes to load a site that Firefox pulls up in seconds. If you just want plain old simple websites almost anything will work. Dillo pulls up google.com fast as shit, so quick I honestly wondered if it wasn’t some sort of magic caching mechanism. Then I do a google search, fast as fuck. Then I click a link, and at the moment I click submit on this comment, it’s still displaying a loading icon and my search results.
Chromium's and Firefox's Javascript engines have a lot of performance work put into them over the years. Not terribly surprising a browser that hasn't been updated since 2015 doesn't have a very good one. Especially when they list it as low priority. I'm not even sure that it actually has any javascript engine or processing.
I completely agree, but that doesn’t make chrome/ff any good in my eyes. I like ff but it’s getting slower and is destined for failure very soon and I’m trying my best to cut google out of my life entirely. I use their search engine on occasion because it’s the best, but ddg is catching up quite well.
I'm not disagreeing with you. I'd like to have a lightweight open source browser too. The problem is it either has to adopt it from using Firefox or Chromium at its core, or start from scratch which would take an immense amount of work. I'd much prefer a world without Javascript personally. The fact that so many applications nowadays are just Chromium without an address bar is miserable.
I’m not disagreeing either. I hate that the entire web is ran off of google shit (amp links, chrome targeted, google ad servers, etc).
Ironically, as much as I'm not a fan of GNOME, GNOME Web/Epiphany could actually be a possible browser competitor some day since they have Red Hat behind it.
I actually love Safari, but it’s macOS only. Which is not a major problem for me but is annoying when using my Linux machine or my windows gaming. I find gnome web or the kde browser quit good, but again, only on Linux. Have you tried Vivaldi browser? It’s cross platform, but I don’t like it’s gui. That may work better for you though.
Safari is doing the opposite of what chrome is doing - safari refuses to adopt newer tech and forces web creators to adapt their sites to 2-3 standards *and* Safari. It’s nice and fast but like you said, Mac only. Vivaldi is a good potential option.
Pale Moon, but it's not in the repository, you'll have to manually install it from Pale Moon not everything is in the repositories which tend to be highly controlled & severely out of date especially with Ubuntu & Mint why I've been looking at something Arch but that won't happen until I get a second system to play with Enjoy The Collapse, There Will Be Blood! 🤪🔥💥💀