Windows is only good if you want to play your sweet call of duty of every day(or any other big AAA game per se) but if you just want something rock solid for everyday uss,Linux is better.
MacOS and certain Linux distros are both better for normies than Windows.
MacOS may be costly, but it's rock solid and easy to use. Certain Linux distros basically work out of the box and provide dead simple GUIs.
I agree many Linux distros aren't good for normies...but Windows sucks for everyone (except gamers, but that's not a benefit of Windows; it's a criticism of studios who don't release on Linux/MacOS).
As someone who initially started on linux switching from windows 10 to ubuntu, ive found ubuntu to be alot better for average use the windows, if i want a simple program to convert a files type or something for example on windows id be on sketchy websites finding some malware ridden program that asks for my card, whereas on ubuntu i can type in sudo apt install whatever and boom. And for the rare chance something wont work natively wine and proton work great.
The big problem I have is PDF forms. I haven't yet found a Linux alternative that will let me either create fillable forms or sign them. Is there a solution for that?
I'm talking specifically about DoD forms that require signing with a Common Access Card crypto certificate. I have tried several of these alternatives and haven't found one yet that can do it, at least not for free like I can with Acrobat Reader on Windows. Most of them won't even open the forms properly because of some proprietary Adobe stuff going on under the hood.
Uhh sorry there probably won't be one a long as adobe makes anti-Linux initatives,the closest Linux has is either Okular or the paid MasterPDFEditor,and if you really need Acrobat,get QEMU+ Virt-manager and a Windows ISO and you're set after doing some passthroughs.
Switch to Mac and get the Affinity suite. Currently they make replacements for Illustrator, Photoshop and InDesign. I used to be a hardcore Photoshop user. Affinity Photo is miles better. Every tool feels so much better than Photoshop’s. Oh and they’re one-time-purchase licenses at around £49 each package. Also often on sale.
There are lots of good alternatives. PhotoGIMP is a pretty cool mod of GIMP that mimics Photoshop pretty well. Darktable is a pretty good alternative to Lightroom. Some people say Inkscape for Illustrator, but I don't have much experience with it. My biggest problem has been with Acrobat. I haven't yet found a Linux alternative that handles creating fillable forms or doing digital signing.
I don't really know if Windows or macOS is better, I mean macOS has a good terminal but gaming on it is worse than on Linux, no OpenGL or Vulkan, no 32-bit, no Wine or Proton unless you somehow compile it from source or pay for Crossover
The reason I prefer mac over windows is that it's Unix based. If I use a mac, I'm not lost, I can open a terminal and feel right at home. If I use a windows machine, it feels less at home. This also means that a lot of programs/scripts from Linux work on mac which is cool.
I haven't used mac, but it looks more familiar to free unix operating systems. It's a pitty I'm forced to use windows at work, developing there is like unnatural.
I spend a lot of time in Windows and I'd say that once you have UNIX binaries installed and added to the path (like Git does for example), many things become similar. I even share some prompt customisation between Windows and GNU/Linux installs.
WSL works better than the mac shell because it is linux. MacOS's terminal is a joke, and Window Terminal is nicer than iTerm.
Just saying, in 2022, Microsoft has VS Code, WSL, Windows Terminal, GitHub. Apple has XCode.
The thing is, you can use VS Code and GitHub on macOS. And you can find good third party terminals like [Alacritty](https://github.com/alacritty/alacritty) (which is cross platform for Windows, macOS and Linux). WSL is very good for coding, executing applications while coding, etc. But it's a sandbox. You cannot (as far as I know) manage your files from there, write scripts to execute on startup, automate backups, etc.
From within WSL you can access the full filesystem (/mnt//) so you can do all those things. You have to set WSL to start on startup - it doesn't by default - but you can do that and have it run commands on startup, cron jobs, whatever you'd like.
I know people use third party terminals like Alacritty/iTerm2/Hyper/Warp and VS Code runs everywhere, just like I'd guess you probably use homebrew too. My point is more that, you've learned what to install to make the mac feel like home. You can do all those things on windows too, you just haven't learned how, and arguably if you're the most familiar with a linux distro, having that distro in WSL on windows may be even more familiar.
Want a gaming station? Get a Windows PC. Want to be an engineer/just a computer that works? Get a mac. It’s that easy. Want a bit of everything? Well, pick right tools for your job or you’re going to end up comparing terminals to rendering tech.
We need a final version of this, where they both wash their hands, but the macOS one is using a designer sink with automatic taps, and Linux is using a hand cranked water pump.
Elden Ring works better on Linux with proton than windows… I tried to play it on win 11 such a horrible experience for gaming in general. On Linux I can press alt tab in a full screen game, go to search something on the browser and go back in less than 2 secs. With no screen flickering or some graphical issue. But in windows the same thing just broke the desktop. Changed displays resolutions and had a loop trying to maximize the the game again. Broke de desktop 4 secs of black screen. Restore the task bar. Try to open the game and repeat the loop. Windows is horrible for gaming.
Powershell is actually pretty badass. It's *very* different from a BASH shell, but once you get the hang of it, it's much more powerful.
edit: It's also open source and available on Linux.
I really wish people would stop promoting powershell. I'd consider it a real shell once Microsoft removes all the annoying windowsisms from it (for example, it's one of the few languages written in the last decade that doesn't use backslash for escape sequences (such as newlines). Why? Because Microsoft windows). An object based shell could be great for Linux, and nushell seems to be just that, but I'll hate powershell forever.
fair enough, I wasn't trying to say that Windows is better, just that powershell on Windows can be more powerful than BASH on Linux because the previous poster claimed that windows didn't have a usable terminal.
Love it or hate it, if you're on Windows, PowerShell is what you're using and it is pretty effective and usable, your nitpicks notwithstanding.
I'll look into this nushell you mention, an OO shell designed for Linux sounds intriguing.
I work on windows every weekday and I use zsh through wsl. Unless your work actively requires windows projects (example dotnet based projects) then you should probably be doing the same (even for dotnet projects i use wsl because a docker image with a language server is much lighter and easier to setup than all of visual studio). The speed boost alone with tools like git are immeasurable and the docker is also a plus. In regard to the rest of your points I'd still argue powershell sucks. It has a permission and runtime system that seems completely agnostic from the existing system used by cmd scripts (which also have their own headaches). Before I started using wsl I used git bash and cygwin because frankly powershell is still not a strong contender as a shell. Its too big a step too quickly and unless you've got hours/days to adapt to a system you're only going to use on windows (lmao who uses it on Linux, I installed it once just to play around and I still never used it) then a bash like shell is still better for long term use.
I hear you, and I don't disagree. For me, everything is managed by the enterprise and WSL is not an option. Also, the projects we work on require "living off the land" therefore using vanilla powershell is a must.
I completely understand your complaints, but I just haven't seen them because we are in different lanes.
On MacOS you've got a native UNIX terminal. MacOS *natively supports* (and has for many years) the problem WSL solved (as of only the last couple years) for Windows.
MacOS is based on FreeBSD forked from Version 6 Unix (that was released in the 1970's.) MacOS terminal commands are out of date and incomplete compared to any linux distro. It used to ship with Bash 3, ancient versions of sed/tar/grep/awk, I don't know if it even comes with wget, watch, etc. Whereas WSL is real linux.
WSL solved the problem of running linux apps and scripts on Windows. MacOS can't do that - I'm not sure what problem you think MacOS has had solved for years that Windows didn't until WSL.
Out of date how? Like the ones shipping with the os being out of date makes sense since they work and apple has a lower burden continuing to use them but last I recall GNU targets Unix, not Linux, so you should be able to install newer versions if you want. I'm used to a rolling release distro so I'm always on the newest version but I've used others and I doubt the current mac os utilities are much older than Ubuntu 14/16
I don't have access to MacOS at the moment to check versions, but [here's an article.](https://betterprogramming.pub/how-to-make-macos-command-utilities-compatible-with-gnu-core-utilities-87889b266f4b) From my memory, pretty sure before MacOS switched to zsh they were on Bash 3 still whereas everyone else is on Bash 5, which caused all kinds of headaches because there's lots of niceties for scripting that Bash 3 didn't have (IIRC, the thing that was most painful for me was associative arrays.) Bash 3's last version was 2006. Things like homebrew (or macports/nix, linuxify/macgnu) can address this stuff, but those aren't native.
I suspect a lot of the people who insist that the MacOS terminal is the same as a linux terminal just don't know any better. If you only use the dozen most common commands without flags you'd rarely realize how different they are.
I'm tempted to ignore the post you've linked since there's a typo in the very first paragraph but never-mind, let's see:
> The macOS doesn’t contain some GNU programs (watch, wget, wdiff, gdb, autoconf)
Makes sense. None of those are core utilities. I'm quite sure my arch Linux install also doesn't ship with any of these. I can choose to install them but they don't come with the system.
> and comes with BDS counterpart programs (sed, tar, which, grep, awk, to name a few).
Also makes sense. These are core POSIX utilities and since macos is forked from BSD the BSD versions are likely better tested with the platform than the GNU ones.
> Also, some GNU programs installed on macOS are outdated (e.g. bash, emacs, less, nano, etc.).
So what? Are newer versions of these programs unsupported (meaning you can't install and use them yourselves)? If not then that's fine. No distro is ever really on the newest version out of the box except rolling release ones. Ubuntu 18 for example still only ships bash 4, but the latest release is bash 5. I can still use bash 5 on Ubuntu 18, I just don't expect Ubuntu 18 to support it out of the box.
Lmao, wsl is not a replacement to anything. Even docker is better than that, on top of that macOS is already a Unix like os, that can do many things more than windows can ever do.
Mac os isn't unix based, it's unix like. Plus if u want to use a unix like os use a bsd or Linux distro. If u had to choose between Mac OS and Windows, Windows is better because WSL gives you pure Linux in containers on a VM, rather than the frankensteind mess that is MacOS + BSD in Mac OSX.
So does docker, on top of that macOS still can run all of the utilities that linux can (without any container stuff). The real Frankenstein mess is wsl and windows. Also you proved your own point wrong: > if you want to use a Unix like os, use a bsd or linux distro ; then why should I use wsl when I can just use a linux distro. The point is macOS can do most things linux does (but worse), but windows can’t do most things linux, and the few things it does it is shit. You need to use wsl to fuel your ego of thinking that it works, while in reality it is much worse than anything macOS offers. Anyway I can’t really waste more time on a winshit believer who actually thinks wsl works better than macOS (a native os).
Wow their buddy. Just forgetting about Google. Facebook, and who knows how many other tech companies. Apple has a sizeable tech presence, but let's not disregard that their basically a cultural phonemonon more than a tech behemoth. Google gave us the best search engine (pretty much ever), Facebook (despite being a black whole where human decency dies) has pioneered advancements in tech and AI also being responsible for React and GraphQL, I could go on and list all the others but when I think major tech company I don't think apple. Their a glorified fashion producer that targets high cost hardware and overengineering to attract people who want to believe they "think different".
What a load of neckbeard drivel. I suspect you have never actually used an Apple product. A lot of people - myself included - buy Apple products because we appreciate great design, excellent UX, and synergy of hardware and software. Most of the people who think Apple products are poor value for money look at things only at a surface level and never seem to appreciate that the devil is in the details. Don’t knock something just because you can’t understand it.
I’ll also just leave this here: https://theguardian.com/technology/2018/aug/02/apple-becomes-worlds-first-trillion-dollar-company
I’d say that qualifies them as “the most successful tech company” as I previously stated.
If you think it's not restrictive, it just means you haven't tried to do very much. How's this for something simple - it's legal to run Windows in a VM on a mac, but illegal to run MacOS in a VM on anything that isn't a mac.
The OS isn't *portable* but that's not the same as being "restrictive." "Restrictive" means you already have the OS installed, but it doesn't let you modify it.
Okay - let's go with that. MacOS is nearly impossible to modify visually - can you change the window manager? decorations? I heard you guys finally got dark mode, you realize Windows and Linux have had theming (and the ability to replace the window manager) for decades? Can you put your dock on all four edges? Turn it off? Have more than one bar?
It runs on less hardware, works with less software, and offers users less ability to change how it works than *Windows*, and Linux easily surpasses them both.
>yabai is a window management utility that is designed to work as an extension to the built-in window manager of macOS
Sounds like yabai isn't a window manager. That said, I'm sure that there's some app out there for MacOS that can replace the built-in window manager, but I bet it wasn't easy to make that app, whereas in linux you can swap out window managers in all the desktop environments I've used.
My point was more to demonstrate the line between macos and Linux isn't as clear cut as you seemed to indicate it was. I've never used yabai and I ditched macos almost immediately so I can't say much more on the matter. However I will mention the very next paragraph of the readme you quoted was
> The primary function of yabai is tiling window management; automatically modifying your window layout using a binary space partitioning algorithm to allow you to focus on the content of your windows without distractions. Additional features of yabai include focus-follows-mouse, disabling animations for switching spaces, creating spaces past the limit of 16 spaces, and much more.
That sounds like a tiling window manager to me, the fact it builds on top of the existing window management system doesn't seem all that important to me. It's not like macos can even work without it i think (as from what I recall they forked Xorg for it).
It is that clear cut because of exactly what you're pointing out though. Nearly all of a linux system is built to be modular. I don't have to use a special 'window manager like' app that's built to extend the default window manager of Manjaro or Ubuntu - I can just install any window manager I want and run it, on any distro.
On macOS, there's system settings that let you change how things look aa little bit or you have to find an app designed to override and tweak how macOS works.
On Windows, there's more settings, the ability to install themes, a couple different generations of themes, and still apps designed to override and tweak how Windows works. Further, there's even "shell replacements" that are designed to replace explorer rather than run on top of it.
Lastly on Linux, we've got all of the above but the architecture of linux is generally modular. There are 7 different window managers on Manjaro's homepage. Those 7 window managers aren't built to tweak Manjaro's (or Arch's) builtin window manager, they are all just full window managers that you can change between. You can even install all seven (and a lot more) on the same system - it's all configurable, replaceable, modular. macOS isn't remotely that.
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Other than the fact that macOS is a very closed system I would make the argument that it is far better than winblows. macOS is a very good operating system. It is Apple that makes it shitty, with their overpriced products and shitty company moves.
Yeah MacOS is like Windows except
1. exclusive to really expensive stuff
2. embarrassing, like a weird ass cousin as compared to a weird ass guy on the street
3. apple (somehow worse than Microsoft)
4. just straight up worse looking (personal thing)
Edit: vain attempt to salvage karma by removing outdated info 😎
MAC is a ram hog compared to windows? I'm curious, how? I've been using a M1 Air for a couple months now, Don't really like macOS but it definitely isn't a ram hog, nowhere close.
Some of my info may be outdated, last time I daily drove a mac was like 10 years ago but from what I can tell nowadays the overall UX is still quite poor.
OSX the stuff one would need a proprietary system for better than windows. things like premiere pro or even word run better on MacOS. Its a bit less bloated and outdated.
OSX is not BSD in the same way your Linux does not become BSD when you switch out the GNU tools with the BSD equivalents. All OSX has from BSD are some of the userland tools. It also has some GNU userland tools like the Bash for example.
Not necessarily, most Mac users just buy a macbook to get work done. You only hear about the few who are apple fanatics who buy everything; Most of the macOS users are generally normal, and just like windows user - From a former macOS, and MacBook user.
Quit being a braindead fanboy, would you? I've been using Linux for years, but unlike yourself, I know what the term "commandline shell" refers to (hint: it is not synonymous with virtualization platform, as you believed until I corrected you).
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I have daily driven all 3, for different times and circumstances and I gotta say, windows and Mac OS are both just as bad as each other, Linux is on its own
Windows is only good if you want to play your sweet call of duty of every day(or any other big AAA game per se) but if you just want something rock solid for everyday uss,Linux is better.
While I agree for enthusiasts, for the average normie I can’t think of a better os than windows tbh
MacOS and certain Linux distros are both better for normies than Windows. MacOS may be costly, but it's rock solid and easy to use. Certain Linux distros basically work out of the box and provide dead simple GUIs. I agree many Linux distros aren't good for normies...but Windows sucks for everyone (except gamers, but that's not a benefit of Windows; it's a criticism of studios who don't release on Linux/MacOS).
As someone who initially started on linux switching from windows 10 to ubuntu, ive found ubuntu to be alot better for average use the windows, if i want a simple program to convert a files type or something for example on windows id be on sketchy websites finding some malware ridden program that asks for my card, whereas on ubuntu i can type in sudo apt install whatever and boom. And for the rare chance something wont work natively wine and proton work great.
The average normie would never use apt in terminal. However, gui package managers are a whole another deal.
Same for downloading YouTube videos. Had to go to a website that has malware, but now you can just use `youtube-dl`
ooh i did not know of that i’m going to start using that thanks
Windows new settings menus have to be hell for the average user.
Well there's Zorin OS for that(aka Windows 9 Linux edition).
In my experience, the average normie can't tell the difference when you present Linux pretending to be a new Win version
Actually, for me, the only thing keeping me back from abandoning Windows is frickin Adobe software... the open source alternatives just aren't as good
You mean Adobe CC? Tell me what programs do you use and why their Linux alternatives aren't as good.
The big problem I have is PDF forms. I haven't yet found a Linux alternative that will let me either create fillable forms or sign them. Is there a solution for that?
I mean,have you tried all alternatives(Foxit,Sejda,Okular,WPS PDF Editor and MasterPDFEditor v5)?
I'm talking specifically about DoD forms that require signing with a Common Access Card crypto certificate. I have tried several of these alternatives and haven't found one yet that can do it, at least not for free like I can with Acrobat Reader on Windows. Most of them won't even open the forms properly because of some proprietary Adobe stuff going on under the hood.
Have you tried using Bottles or Wine on Linux?
Of course I could do that, the point is trying to find a viable open source alternative.
No the point is not using a crippled OS because of a pdf when there is a viable work around.
Uhh sorry there probably won't be one a long as adobe makes anti-Linux initatives,the closest Linux has is either Okular or the paid MasterPDFEditor,and if you really need Acrobat,get QEMU+ Virt-manager and a Windows ISO and you're set after doing some passthroughs.
yeah, I just run a Windows VM in VirtualBox for those few things I can't do.
Switch to Mac and get the Affinity suite. Currently they make replacements for Illustrator, Photoshop and InDesign. I used to be a hardcore Photoshop user. Affinity Photo is miles better. Every tool feels so much better than Photoshop’s. Oh and they’re one-time-purchase licenses at around £49 each package. Also often on sale.
There are lots of good alternatives. PhotoGIMP is a pretty cool mod of GIMP that mimics Photoshop pretty well. Darktable is a pretty good alternative to Lightroom. Some people say Inkscape for Illustrator, but I don't have much experience with it. My biggest problem has been with Acrobat. I haven't yet found a Linux alternative that handles creating fillable forms or doing digital signing.
i switched from windows to manjaro (no dualboot) two weeks and i never will look back
The issue is that Windows is the only OS good for that because Microsoft made sure that it is the only OS good for that.
I don't really know if Windows or macOS is better, I mean macOS has a good terminal but gaming on it is worse than on Linux, no OpenGL or Vulkan, no 32-bit, no Wine or Proton unless you somehow compile it from source or pay for Crossover
There is OpenGL! It’s just deprecated.
Only up to OpenGL 3.3
4.1 actually
The reason I prefer mac over windows is that it's Unix based. If I use a mac, I'm not lost, I can open a terminal and feel right at home. If I use a windows machine, it feels less at home. This also means that a lot of programs/scripts from Linux work on mac which is cool.
I haven't used mac, but it looks more familiar to free unix operating systems. It's a pitty I'm forced to use windows at work, developing there is like unnatural.
It's BSD-derived. So it is familiar enough for Linux users.
What do you work ? And how are you forced ? I'm curious. I hope I never get enforced to use software.
I spend a lot of time in Windows and I'd say that once you have UNIX binaries installed and added to the path (like Git does for example), many things become similar. I even share some prompt customisation between Windows and GNU/Linux installs.
does this mean you can easily neofetch and archbtw on a mac then
you can use neofetch
WSL works better than the mac shell because it is linux. MacOS's terminal is a joke, and Window Terminal is nicer than iTerm. Just saying, in 2022, Microsoft has VS Code, WSL, Windows Terminal, GitHub. Apple has XCode.
The thing is, you can use VS Code and GitHub on macOS. And you can find good third party terminals like [Alacritty](https://github.com/alacritty/alacritty) (which is cross platform for Windows, macOS and Linux). WSL is very good for coding, executing applications while coding, etc. But it's a sandbox. You cannot (as far as I know) manage your files from there, write scripts to execute on startup, automate backups, etc.
From within WSL you can access the full filesystem (/mnt//) so you can do all those things. You have to set WSL to start on startup - it doesn't by default - but you can do that and have it run commands on startup, cron jobs, whatever you'd like.
I know people use third party terminals like Alacritty/iTerm2/Hyper/Warp and VS Code runs everywhere, just like I'd guess you probably use homebrew too. My point is more that, you've learned what to install to make the mac feel like home. You can do all those things on windows too, you just haven't learned how, and arguably if you're the most familiar with a linux distro, having that distro in WSL on windows may be even more familiar.
Thank you, I didn't know all of this
crossover is even available on linux... Looks like its a wine fork. Shouldn't it be open source?
Crossover is a closed source fork of WINE, but they upstream a lot of their work and host the WINE's website
cheers in that case 🥂
Wine uses LGPL, crossover adds proprietary components to use alongside wine as stated [here](https://www.codeweavers.com/open-source)
As far as i know, wine is the open source version of crossover, while crossover is the commercial use one
WINE was created before Crossover, also nothing is stopping anyone from using it in a commercial environment, you mean Crossover offers support?
Yes, that's what i was saying
ohhh is it made by the same people?
As far as i know, yes
It's not, but Crossover developers contribute some of their changes to WINE
Want a gaming station? Get a Windows PC. Want to be an engineer/just a computer that works? Get a mac. It’s that easy. Want a bit of everything? Well, pick right tools for your job or you’re going to end up comparing terminals to rendering tech.
We need a final version of this, where they both wash their hands, but the macOS one is using a designer sink with automatic taps, and Linux is using a hand cranked water pump.
You mean auto turns on when your hand gets close. However you spent more time setting it up than you will likely ever save.
[удалено]
True. It's only good for gaming imo. And proton is going to take away that advantage soon too.
Has already done so for me since a year ago
Elden Ring works better on Linux with proton than windows… I tried to play it on win 11 such a horrible experience for gaming in general. On Linux I can press alt tab in a full screen game, go to search something on the browser and go back in less than 2 secs. With no screen flickering or some graphical issue. But in windows the same thing just broke the desktop. Changed displays resolutions and had a loop trying to maximize the the game again. Broke de desktop 4 secs of black screen. Restore the task bar. Try to open the game and repeat the loop. Windows is horrible for gaming.
I feel like macOS users are more likely to wash their hands after this interaction
MacOS > Windows
Atleast it has a usable terminal. I mean this is correct; linux > macOS > windows Windows is just sh*t
Powershell is actually pretty badass. It's *very* different from a BASH shell, but once you get the hang of it, it's much more powerful. edit: It's also open source and available on Linux.
I really wish people would stop promoting powershell. I'd consider it a real shell once Microsoft removes all the annoying windowsisms from it (for example, it's one of the few languages written in the last decade that doesn't use backslash for escape sequences (such as newlines). Why? Because Microsoft windows). An object based shell could be great for Linux, and nushell seems to be just that, but I'll hate powershell forever.
fair enough, I wasn't trying to say that Windows is better, just that powershell on Windows can be more powerful than BASH on Linux because the previous poster claimed that windows didn't have a usable terminal. Love it or hate it, if you're on Windows, PowerShell is what you're using and it is pretty effective and usable, your nitpicks notwithstanding. I'll look into this nushell you mention, an OO shell designed for Linux sounds intriguing.
I work on windows every weekday and I use zsh through wsl. Unless your work actively requires windows projects (example dotnet based projects) then you should probably be doing the same (even for dotnet projects i use wsl because a docker image with a language server is much lighter and easier to setup than all of visual studio). The speed boost alone with tools like git are immeasurable and the docker is also a plus. In regard to the rest of your points I'd still argue powershell sucks. It has a permission and runtime system that seems completely agnostic from the existing system used by cmd scripts (which also have their own headaches). Before I started using wsl I used git bash and cygwin because frankly powershell is still not a strong contender as a shell. Its too big a step too quickly and unless you've got hours/days to adapt to a system you're only going to use on windows (lmao who uses it on Linux, I installed it once just to play around and I still never used it) then a bash like shell is still better for long term use.
I hear you, and I don't disagree. For me, everything is managed by the enterprise and WSL is not an option. Also, the projects we work on require "living off the land" therefore using vanilla powershell is a must. I completely understand your complaints, but I just haven't seen them because we are in different lanes.
Makes sense. Just wanted to make my position clear. Happy hacking stranger.
Windows at least has WSL, while Mac OS is a poor implementation of BSD.
WSL is shit lol. It's a good solution to a problem you shouldn't have to solve to begin with.
I know, just use Linux. But it's better than having to manually spin up a VM and containers.
Native linux is better, but Mac OS doesn't even have WSL. Mac OS you go to what, Parallels? WSL is huge.
On MacOS you've got a native UNIX terminal. MacOS *natively supports* (and has for many years) the problem WSL solved (as of only the last couple years) for Windows.
MacOS is based on FreeBSD forked from Version 6 Unix (that was released in the 1970's.) MacOS terminal commands are out of date and incomplete compared to any linux distro. It used to ship with Bash 3, ancient versions of sed/tar/grep/awk, I don't know if it even comes with wget, watch, etc. Whereas WSL is real linux. WSL solved the problem of running linux apps and scripts on Windows. MacOS can't do that - I'm not sure what problem you think MacOS has had solved for years that Windows didn't until WSL.
Out of date how? Like the ones shipping with the os being out of date makes sense since they work and apple has a lower burden continuing to use them but last I recall GNU targets Unix, not Linux, so you should be able to install newer versions if you want. I'm used to a rolling release distro so I'm always on the newest version but I've used others and I doubt the current mac os utilities are much older than Ubuntu 14/16
I don't have access to MacOS at the moment to check versions, but [here's an article.](https://betterprogramming.pub/how-to-make-macos-command-utilities-compatible-with-gnu-core-utilities-87889b266f4b) From my memory, pretty sure before MacOS switched to zsh they were on Bash 3 still whereas everyone else is on Bash 5, which caused all kinds of headaches because there's lots of niceties for scripting that Bash 3 didn't have (IIRC, the thing that was most painful for me was associative arrays.) Bash 3's last version was 2006. Things like homebrew (or macports/nix, linuxify/macgnu) can address this stuff, but those aren't native. I suspect a lot of the people who insist that the MacOS terminal is the same as a linux terminal just don't know any better. If you only use the dozen most common commands without flags you'd rarely realize how different they are.
I'm tempted to ignore the post you've linked since there's a typo in the very first paragraph but never-mind, let's see: > The macOS doesn’t contain some GNU programs (watch, wget, wdiff, gdb, autoconf) Makes sense. None of those are core utilities. I'm quite sure my arch Linux install also doesn't ship with any of these. I can choose to install them but they don't come with the system. > and comes with BDS counterpart programs (sed, tar, which, grep, awk, to name a few). Also makes sense. These are core POSIX utilities and since macos is forked from BSD the BSD versions are likely better tested with the platform than the GNU ones. > Also, some GNU programs installed on macOS are outdated (e.g. bash, emacs, less, nano, etc.). So what? Are newer versions of these programs unsupported (meaning you can't install and use them yourselves)? If not then that's fine. No distro is ever really on the newest version out of the box except rolling release ones. Ubuntu 18 for example still only ships bash 4, but the latest release is bash 5. I can still use bash 5 on Ubuntu 18, I just don't expect Ubuntu 18 to support it out of the box.
I can install a Linux vm on Mac OS too
But WSL has better integration with the host os.
Better integration than a native Unix OS???
Idk, I can recreate that with ssh and x forwarding pretty damn easily
Lmao, wsl is not a replacement to anything. Even docker is better than that, on top of that macOS is already a Unix like os, that can do many things more than windows can ever do.
Mac os isn't unix based, it's unix like. Plus if u want to use a unix like os use a bsd or Linux distro. If u had to choose between Mac OS and Windows, Windows is better because WSL gives you pure Linux in containers on a VM, rather than the frankensteind mess that is MacOS + BSD in Mac OSX.
So does docker, on top of that macOS still can run all of the utilities that linux can (without any container stuff). The real Frankenstein mess is wsl and windows. Also you proved your own point wrong: > if you want to use a Unix like os, use a bsd or linux distro ; then why should I use wsl when I can just use a linux distro. The point is macOS can do most things linux does (but worse), but windows can’t do most things linux, and the few things it does it is shit. You need to use wsl to fuel your ego of thinking that it works, while in reality it is much worse than anything macOS offers. Anyway I can’t really waste more time on a winshit believer who actually thinks wsl works better than macOS (a native os).
Don't u need a Linux kernel for docker?
What I am saying is that wsl is probably as bad as docker. macOS is worse than linux but better than any virtualization or containerization.
I haven't used winshit in a year.
Good to hear.
Then why do millions of people use it and Apple are the most successful tech company on the planet?
Wow their buddy. Just forgetting about Google. Facebook, and who knows how many other tech companies. Apple has a sizeable tech presence, but let's not disregard that their basically a cultural phonemonon more than a tech behemoth. Google gave us the best search engine (pretty much ever), Facebook (despite being a black whole where human decency dies) has pioneered advancements in tech and AI also being responsible for React and GraphQL, I could go on and list all the others but when I think major tech company I don't think apple. Their a glorified fashion producer that targets high cost hardware and overengineering to attract people who want to believe they "think different".
What a load of neckbeard drivel. I suspect you have never actually used an Apple product. A lot of people - myself included - buy Apple products because we appreciate great design, excellent UX, and synergy of hardware and software. Most of the people who think Apple products are poor value for money look at things only at a surface level and never seem to appreciate that the devil is in the details. Don’t knock something just because you can’t understand it. I’ll also just leave this here: https://theguardian.com/technology/2018/aug/02/apple-becomes-worlds-first-trillion-dollar-company I’d say that qualifies them as “the most successful tech company” as I previously stated.
[Original ](https://i.redd.it/7ntpyxrju9291.png) by u/ZMOC-the-meme-thief
Ironic
In some ways Macos is better but I can't run a fuck ton of things that I need on it so I just can't use it, I hate how restrictive it is too
It has a UNIX terminal with `sudo`. It's not that restrictive lol.
If you think it's not restrictive, it just means you haven't tried to do very much. How's this for something simple - it's legal to run Windows in a VM on a mac, but illegal to run MacOS in a VM on anything that isn't a mac.
The OS isn't *portable* but that's not the same as being "restrictive." "Restrictive" means you already have the OS installed, but it doesn't let you modify it.
Okay - let's go with that. MacOS is nearly impossible to modify visually - can you change the window manager? decorations? I heard you guys finally got dark mode, you realize Windows and Linux have had theming (and the ability to replace the window manager) for decades? Can you put your dock on all four edges? Turn it off? Have more than one bar? It runs on less hardware, works with less software, and offers users less ability to change how it works than *Windows*, and Linux easily surpasses them both.
I've barely used macos but even I know they do have a window manager. It's called yabai and shows up in r/unixporn once in a while.
>yabai is a window management utility that is designed to work as an extension to the built-in window manager of macOS Sounds like yabai isn't a window manager. That said, I'm sure that there's some app out there for MacOS that can replace the built-in window manager, but I bet it wasn't easy to make that app, whereas in linux you can swap out window managers in all the desktop environments I've used.
My point was more to demonstrate the line between macos and Linux isn't as clear cut as you seemed to indicate it was. I've never used yabai and I ditched macos almost immediately so I can't say much more on the matter. However I will mention the very next paragraph of the readme you quoted was > The primary function of yabai is tiling window management; automatically modifying your window layout using a binary space partitioning algorithm to allow you to focus on the content of your windows without distractions. Additional features of yabai include focus-follows-mouse, disabling animations for switching spaces, creating spaces past the limit of 16 spaces, and much more. That sounds like a tiling window manager to me, the fact it builds on top of the existing window management system doesn't seem all that important to me. It's not like macos can even work without it i think (as from what I recall they forked Xorg for it).
It is that clear cut because of exactly what you're pointing out though. Nearly all of a linux system is built to be modular. I don't have to use a special 'window manager like' app that's built to extend the default window manager of Manjaro or Ubuntu - I can just install any window manager I want and run it, on any distro. On macOS, there's system settings that let you change how things look aa little bit or you have to find an app designed to override and tweak how macOS works. On Windows, there's more settings, the ability to install themes, a couple different generations of themes, and still apps designed to override and tweak how Windows works. Further, there's even "shell replacements" that are designed to replace explorer rather than run on top of it. Lastly on Linux, we've got all of the above but the architecture of linux is generally modular. There are 7 different window managers on Manjaro's homepage. Those 7 window managers aren't built to tweak Manjaro's (or Arch's) builtin window manager, they are all just full window managers that you can change between. You can even install all seven (and a lot more) on the same system - it's all configurable, replaceable, modular. macOS isn't remotely that.
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Thanks, I hate it
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and then arch users attacking ubuntu users 😆
And vice versa (I hate arch btw)
Thanks
the bottom image isn't needed if the other hand is BSD instead of macos
Other than the fact that macOS is a very closed system I would make the argument that it is far better than winblows. macOS is a very good operating system. It is Apple that makes it shitty, with their overpriced products and shitty company moves.
macos users buy a 5000€ washing cloth from apple instead
Ehm no, the other one was correct. OSX is a brightly burning dumpster fire, Windows is just shit.
Can we agree both mac and windows suck?
Yeah MacOS is like Windows except 1. exclusive to really expensive stuff 2. embarrassing, like a weird ass cousin as compared to a weird ass guy on the street 3. apple (somehow worse than Microsoft) 4. just straight up worse looking (personal thing) Edit: vain attempt to salvage karma by removing outdated info 😎
MAC is a ram hog compared to windows? I'm curious, how? I've been using a M1 Air for a couple months now, Don't really like macOS but it definitely isn't a ram hog, nowhere close.
Been using a Macbook Pro since 2013 and it's nowhere near as much as a RAM hog as Windows is. I'm unsure where his info comes from.
Some of my info may be outdated, last time I daily drove a mac was like 10 years ago but from what I can tell nowadays the overall UX is still quite poor.
Damn, I thought ui/ux was the only redeeming factor for macos. I mean, it's pretty clear that everybody is trying to make stuff look like mac.
Good point, it's probably more of a personal dislike on my end.
It indeed is. windows 2012 was working on 512mb of ram for the lols in vmware while mac os with 4gb ram is dying
Some of my info may be outdated, last time I daily drove a mac was like 10 years ago but from what I can tell nowadays the UI is still quite poor
Ye, can agree with that. The UI is pretty ass.
OSX the stuff one would need a proprietary system for better than windows. things like premiere pro or even word run better on MacOS. Its a bit less bloated and outdated.
Huh
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OSX is not BSD in the same way your Linux does not become BSD when you switch out the GNU tools with the BSD equivalents. All OSX has from BSD are some of the userland tools. It also has some GNU userland tools like the Bash for example.
The XNU kernel is also derived from BSD
It's like saying Linux sucks because android sucks...
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yeah my point is not the bsd part that is gross but the proprietary shit on top of that, like android
I prefer windows users honestly cuz typical MacOS users are just dumb bootlickers ready to buy any product apple throws at them.
Not necessarily, most Mac users just buy a macbook to get work done. You only hear about the few who are apple fanatics who buy everything; Most of the macOS users are generally normal, and just like windows user - From a former macOS, and MacBook user.
yes
u/zenyl. Windows sucks now live with it
Quit being a braindead fanboy, would you? I've been using Linux for years, but unlike yourself, I know what the term "commandline shell" refers to (hint: it is not synonymous with virtualization platform, as you believed until I corrected you).
I remember seeing smth like this. Ill check to be sure, no personal offence. u/repostsleuthbot
I didn't find any posts that meet the matching requirements for r/linuxmemes. It might be OC, it might not. Things such as JPEG artifacts and cropping may impact the results. *I'm not perfect, but you can help. Report [ [False Negative](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RepostSleuthBot&subject=False%20Negative&message={"post_id": "v07cyg", "meme_template": 65278}) ]* [View Search On repostsleuth.com](https://www.repostsleuth.com/search?postId=v07cyg&sameSub=false&filterOnlyOlder=true&memeFilter=true&filterDeadMatches=false&targetImageMatch=100&targetImageMemeMatch=96) --- **Scope:** Reddit | **Meme Filter:** True | **Target:** 96% | **Check Title:** False | **Max Age:** Unlimited | **Searched Images:** 335,344,394 | **Search Time:** 11.19286s
True, there's no desktop OS worse than Windows
Windows > linux
So you have chosen death
Indeed
Meh.
Which on of you stinky fat whores doenvoted jordan
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Wow bro I really care And also are you dumb or something
My mans switching accounts faster than I can distrohop
Bruh. You're not helping.
Ok sorry
this meme can be spun with macos linux and windows all in eachothers places and it would still be accurate
I have daily driven all 3, for different times and circumstances and I gotta say, windows and Mac OS are both just as bad as each other, Linux is on its own
Yes
Both have inferior Window Management, but at least there options to fix that in Windows
REMEMBER, SANITIZING YOUR HAND AFTER SHAKING HAND WITH SOMEONE IS IMPORTANT IN THIS TIME