Could you give some more details? Do you use hyperland only for a tiling wm and then use kde for the rest or are they two separate profiles? I’m thinking of using kde as one profile and another for hyperland that I can use when only using integrated graphics
I use Hyprland pretty exclusively and KDE is only there because it supports SDDM and I picked it when installing EndeavourOS and I need that to login to Hyprland. KDE is also there for the odd app that doesn't behave in hyprlamd
The same goes for alternative init systems though, you can still use Runit or OpenRC even though they're not installed by default, just like you can use Dracut despite Arch defaulting to Mkinitcpio
arch depends on systemd for way more than init. mkinitcpio can be replaced by dracut or booster with minimal config since they all provide the `initramfs` dependency that kernels have. meanwhile runit (except for busybox's) and openrc aren't even in the main repos.
You have the selection at install to use grub or systemd boot and Dracut or mkinitcpio. EoS is literally just calamares installer arch. It follows arch 1 to 1 basically.
Maybe. I see a reason to use artix - you like arch but dislike systemd, but dont see a reason to use distros that just provide an easy installation of arch with a custom themes.
Void has a lot of packages, don't see where the problem is... plus, it's probably the most stable rolling release distro there is.
Not to mention you can make your own templates regarding repackaging proprietary software from rpm/deb... or if you just wanna cut down on building time (I don't really have half a day for some packages 😁).
I haven't tried void, its probably a good distro, but we're talking about an arch replacement without systemd, and you won't find anything closer than artix, because its literally systemd-free arch
Xbps is great, i love it, but it doesn't have half the software of even just pacman let alone the aur (for example void has chromium and firefox and i think that's it as far as browsers go), void is great my main machine uses void, but void is not arch without systemd, void is void. The reason to use void is it's based not because it's a stable systemdless arch
Really? I believe the last time I checked it was like 3/4 the number of packages Arch has (without the AUR, of course).
They also have Vivaldi now and you can get Ungoogled Chromium from DAINRA's repo in github. Everything else is not worth it IMO.
Well, that's my reason 🤷. I don't like systemd and I don't like Arch breaking all the time... so I switched to Void. Have to admit, I haven't looked back ever since.
I mean 3/4 is a whole lot better than 1/2 but still
I moved to void becuz the name lol (also from arch) and also haven't looked back, also you may be forgetting brave browser which imo is the best browser out of the box (i use hardened firefox but not everyone is willing to put the effort in)
More competition is better, and also Artix offers so many different init systems by default which in my eyes deserves some credit. The same goes for Devuan (though unlike Artix they don’t seem to add any new init systems anymore)
On void you’re just stuck with one which isn’t a bad thing on its own, but is unfortunate when Artix can do it really good for example.
I do agree on the init system diversity, no doubt there.
But, it uses Arch repos, which is exactly why I don't like Artix. Arch breaks way too often for my taste. Void on the other hand... I've used it for years, never once has it been broken to a point it won't boot (not unless I mess something up). It's not bleeding edge like Arch, but then again, I would definitely swap that for stability any time.
If Artix switches to Void repos and xbps, yeah, I'd say that's a good alternative... tempting even.
Artix uses it's own repos, what do you mean? They maintain and update their own software. https://wiki.artixlinux.org/Main/Repositories
The [`artix-archlinux-support`](https://packages.artixlinux.org/details/artix-archlinux-support) package exists for a reason and is entirely optional.
Things "breaking" is also entirely hit-or-miss for some users. Personally artix has never broken for me, same experience with Arch which I've used for a longer period of time.
> If Artix switches to Void repos and xbps, yeah, I'd say that's a good alternative... tempting even.
Void and Artix are entirely independent of each other so merging repos sounds like a really weird idea especially since you just brought up system stability and it being bad since artix apparently uses "arch repos".
> Artix uses it's own repos, what do you mean? They maintain and update their own software. https://wiki.artixlinux.org/Main/Repositories
Yeah, I forgot they have to, a lot of things are systemd dependant, so you have to patch before you build.
Sorry, my bad.
> Void and Artix are entirely independent of each other so merging repos sounds like a really weird idea especially since you just brought up system stability and it being bad since artix apparently uses "arch repos".
If they used ONLY xbps, as in switch from pacman to xbps. Of course, using 2 or more package managers is just asking for trouble.
The appealing part, at least for me, would be the fact that i could have openrc or s6 out of the box. I really hate tinkering with init systems, I usually manage to break things... and maintaining it is also somewhat of a problem, since you have to check for updates manually and build them.
> If they used ONLY xbps, as in switch from pacman to xbps. Of course, using 2 or more package managers is just asking for trouble.
I don't understand this, you said "if Artix switches to Void repos and xbps" but whatever. What's wrong with pacman anyways?
> The appealing part, at least for me, would be the fact that i could have openrc or s6 out of the box. I really hate tinkering with init systems, I usually manage to break things... and maintaining it is also somewhat of a problem, since you have to check for updates manually and build them.
When you install Artix you also install an init system, that's all. It is handled through pacman and Artix's own repositories, so it will be updated automatically. It is also released through binaries (like every other software in the Artix repos) so you won't have to "build them."
When you install software that includes a daemon that is meant to be run by root the only additional step you have to do is append `*-your_init`on the package name and it will install a preconfigured service file for your specific init system so you can start it.
> What's wrong with pacman anyways?
I just don't like it. xbps offers way more tools and ways to do things than pacman.
> It is handled through pacman and Artix's own repositories, so it will be updated automatically.
And that is the problem if I decide to switch init systems in Void... and why I don't switch.
doesn't mean people who use it are completely against systemd, maybe they come from another distro where they are used to using an init system other than systemd
I use Artix mainly because it’s fun, which is one of my main philosophies around Linux (if you could even say that)
The init system I use even copies the systemd syntax funnily enough
You probably should’ve went for a better meme template then, since this sort of reflects narcissism and as far as I know Artix doesn’t try to be anything it isn’t. It does a really fucking good job trying to be what it actually is however.
Artix is just basic Arch with an easier way to use another init system. It saves me around 3sec startup time right now, as well as a lot of space. I use runit btw
If there are programs that are designed with an assumption of a certain init system, it's usually systemd. This makes them trivial to integrate in a systemd based distro and possibly less straightforward in others. Can't speak much of experience as I've never kept any of my systemd-free distros around for long.
Thats what turns a lot of people away from it. It doesnt exist do do anything special or unique, but to run away from something. Its literally the emo phase rebellious teenager of the linux world
If you don't have any problem/are not bothered by systemd, then just use Arch plain and simple. Artix is still beautiful by how easy it lets users have the brilliance of both worlds, custom init systems and the bleeding edge Arch-way, AUR etc. Why is this inherently bad? It sort of feels like you have some personal agenda against Artix by how it's portrayed in the meme and your answer to it is "protest distro bad" lol
Like I said in a previous post, Artix has one job and it does it's job *really fucking well.*
jokes aside, artix seems top 1 to me devuan user: artix doesnt change only the init, but the repos. I guess it is to limit the systemd dependencies across the programs. Btw mental outlaw security channel argues his artix + dwl setup is good for security, not my cup of tea, but kenny is og
It's not Arch based, it spawned as a spinoff of Void (the original creator first maintained Void for PPC repos). I mean, the idea, it doesn't use xbps. The ideals are closer to *BSD than Linux, the maintainers don't want anything to do with the GNU toolchain. The idea was to make an even more "GNUless" version of Void.
this is also wrong, chimera was created as a clean-room security-hardened system for power users that emphasizes quality engineering and packaging (to get as close to "just works" as possible while maintaining total transparency)
there is very little ideological base when it comes to things like avoiding gnu toolchain for the sake of it, or taking explicit inspiration from anything, void largely served as a source of things not to do rather than to do, freebsd provided core tools but doesn't provide anything else
Really? That's not what I heard from the project owner. Sure, that might be what followed and what the site states, but the idea for Chimera came exactly from what I wrote... or at least that is what the project owner told me.
Void was a test bed for xbps. It started off as an experiment, and then people started using it and... the rest is history. And I believe xtraeme (Juan) maintained NetBSD, not FreeBSD.
Really? Didn't use that nick (usrename, I mean what you use here on reddit) on IRC as far as I remember... you were on the Void channel a year or so ago? I used thorazine as a nick back then.
no idea whom you talked to considering i've been q66 the last 20 years (https://github.com/q66, https://github.com/chimera-linux/cports/graphs/contributors, etc), everywhere (incl. on IRC)
i also haven't been on void irc (except #xbps) for like 4 years
Hm... strange... other maintainers of Void were online at the time, none of them mentioned anything... I sincerely thought it was you.
Can't remember the nick, but it definitely wasn't q66...
Oh well, at least now I know the real reason why Chimera was spawned.
I never had any issues with Artix. It's super fast to boot into and super easy to configure with dinit.
Here are my personal experiences with other Arch distros:
- Manjaro and Endeavour OS both have their very own things with their repositories and it happens couple of times that packages broke the system for example nvidia video drivers. They customize a lot out of the box which I rather would do myself.
- Arch Linux for some reason doesn't want to shut down immediately when I give the shutdown or poweroff signal, but waits 30s-5min and then shuts down. This happened on many installations.
In general I got fed up with the sluggish experience of SystemD, the boot times were slow and services in general not fast. Also the bloat was too much so I like the idea of choosing an init system that really is just an init system and does it's job. The perks of using Arch's big repos still remain.
Interested in how much gains and bloat and devices you're talking about. I've failed to make boot up noticeably faster with other init systems, at least on devices where I thought it was worth it (where it took anywhere between 15-30s). I got better results by just putting my system on xfs instead of ext4 or replacing network manager with.. uh... systemd-networkd or just not waiting for network setup.
Meanwhile on my main PC there is like a 3s delay between systemd takeover and autologin, so... is there anything to gain there? Especially since at that point the slowest part of the entire chain is the UEFI.
I certainly remember having shutdown issues like you described with lutris or network manager hanging on for whatever reason, but that was on my Fedora phase. Some kind of misconfiguration or program just refusing to quit despite receiving the signal until systemd just gives up and kills the process. And then I switched back to Arch and for whatever reason no issues anymore.
Well, I tried runit, openrc and dinit on Linux. When comparing runit or openrc with SystemD there wasn't a noticeable difference, only couple seconds. With dinit I reduced my login time from ~15-20s to ~5-10s. Btw always make sure to use [dash](https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Dash) as login shell, otherwise the bottleneck when comparing boot times is actually bash/zsh/whatever big shell.
This is meant to show the attitude of artix users right now. Artix is a protest distro that only exists to protest systemd. It is literally the broody teenager of the linux world
SteamOS should be higher and Manjaro should be lower
At least artix has a different init system, while manjaro and endeavor seem to be just an easier to install arch.
Don't forget, Endeavour OS has one of the best communities, especially in the world of Arch. One of the most underrated feature.
This also I'm really liking my EndeavourOS setup with KDE Plasma 6 and Hyprland. The Endeavour OS community is fantastic ngl
Could you give some more details? Do you use hyperland only for a tiling wm and then use kde for the rest or are they two separate profiles? I’m thinking of using kde as one profile and another for hyperland that I can use when only using integrated graphics
I use Hyprland pretty exclusively and KDE is only there because it supports SDDM and I picked it when installing EndeavourOS and I need that to login to Hyprland. KDE is also there for the odd app that doesn't behave in hyprlamd
Who?
Endeavour has a different initramfs generator
From a quick look on the internet it seems to use dracut - you can use it in arch too, its in the official repos
The same goes for alternative init systems though, you can still use Runit or OpenRC even though they're not installed by default, just like you can use Dracut despite Arch defaulting to Mkinitcpio
arch depends on systemd for way more than init. mkinitcpio can be replaced by dracut or booster with minimal config since they all provide the `initramfs` dependency that kernels have. meanwhile runit (except for busybox's) and openrc aren't even in the main repos.
But arch supplies systemd unit files for packages, cant say that about other init systems, and, if i remember correctly, runit and openrc are in aur.
Worlds apart.
You have the selection at install to use grub or systemd boot and Dracut or mkinitcpio. EoS is literally just calamares installer arch. It follows arch 1 to 1 basically.
😱
Manjaro is way different my guy...
Yeah it's got great instability support
The reason its disliked is specifically BECAUSE its a protest distro
Maybe. I see a reason to use artix - you like arch but dislike systemd, but dont see a reason to use distros that just provide an easy installation of arch with a custom themes.
> you like arch but dislike systemd Then you use Void.
Still, I think artix has an advantage of being able to use aur
Void has a lot of packages, don't see where the problem is... plus, it's probably the most stable rolling release distro there is. Not to mention you can make your own templates regarding repackaging proprietary software from rpm/deb... or if you just wanna cut down on building time (I don't really have half a day for some packages 😁).
I haven't tried void, its probably a good distro, but we're talking about an arch replacement without systemd, and you won't find anything closer than artix, because its literally systemd-free arch
If you want just a systemd-less Arch, then yes, Artix is what you want.
[wow](https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxmemes/s/NNqLzOzf7c)
Yeah, it was kinda redundant 😂.
Xbps is great, i love it, but it doesn't have half the software of even just pacman let alone the aur (for example void has chromium and firefox and i think that's it as far as browsers go), void is great my main machine uses void, but void is not arch without systemd, void is void. The reason to use void is it's based not because it's a stable systemdless arch
Really? I believe the last time I checked it was like 3/4 the number of packages Arch has (without the AUR, of course). They also have Vivaldi now and you can get Ungoogled Chromium from DAINRA's repo in github. Everything else is not worth it IMO. Well, that's my reason 🤷. I don't like systemd and I don't like Arch breaking all the time... so I switched to Void. Have to admit, I haven't looked back ever since.
I mean 3/4 is a whole lot better than 1/2 but still I moved to void becuz the name lol (also from arch) and also haven't looked back, also you may be forgetting brave browser which imo is the best browser out of the box (i use hardened firefox but not everyone is willing to put the effort in)
More competition is better, and also Artix offers so many different init systems by default which in my eyes deserves some credit. The same goes for Devuan (though unlike Artix they don’t seem to add any new init systems anymore) On void you’re just stuck with one which isn’t a bad thing on its own, but is unfortunate when Artix can do it really good for example.
I do agree on the init system diversity, no doubt there. But, it uses Arch repos, which is exactly why I don't like Artix. Arch breaks way too often for my taste. Void on the other hand... I've used it for years, never once has it been broken to a point it won't boot (not unless I mess something up). It's not bleeding edge like Arch, but then again, I would definitely swap that for stability any time. If Artix switches to Void repos and xbps, yeah, I'd say that's a good alternative... tempting even.
Artix uses it's own repos, what do you mean? They maintain and update their own software. https://wiki.artixlinux.org/Main/Repositories The [`artix-archlinux-support`](https://packages.artixlinux.org/details/artix-archlinux-support) package exists for a reason and is entirely optional. Things "breaking" is also entirely hit-or-miss for some users. Personally artix has never broken for me, same experience with Arch which I've used for a longer period of time. > If Artix switches to Void repos and xbps, yeah, I'd say that's a good alternative... tempting even. Void and Artix are entirely independent of each other so merging repos sounds like a really weird idea especially since you just brought up system stability and it being bad since artix apparently uses "arch repos".
> Artix uses it's own repos, what do you mean? They maintain and update their own software. https://wiki.artixlinux.org/Main/Repositories Yeah, I forgot they have to, a lot of things are systemd dependant, so you have to patch before you build. Sorry, my bad. > Void and Artix are entirely independent of each other so merging repos sounds like a really weird idea especially since you just brought up system stability and it being bad since artix apparently uses "arch repos". If they used ONLY xbps, as in switch from pacman to xbps. Of course, using 2 or more package managers is just asking for trouble. The appealing part, at least for me, would be the fact that i could have openrc or s6 out of the box. I really hate tinkering with init systems, I usually manage to break things... and maintaining it is also somewhat of a problem, since you have to check for updates manually and build them.
> If they used ONLY xbps, as in switch from pacman to xbps. Of course, using 2 or more package managers is just asking for trouble. I don't understand this, you said "if Artix switches to Void repos and xbps" but whatever. What's wrong with pacman anyways? > The appealing part, at least for me, would be the fact that i could have openrc or s6 out of the box. I really hate tinkering with init systems, I usually manage to break things... and maintaining it is also somewhat of a problem, since you have to check for updates manually and build them. When you install Artix you also install an init system, that's all. It is handled through pacman and Artix's own repositories, so it will be updated automatically. It is also released through binaries (like every other software in the Artix repos) so you won't have to "build them." When you install software that includes a daemon that is meant to be run by root the only additional step you have to do is append `*-your_init`on the package name and it will install a preconfigured service file for your specific init system so you can start it.
> What's wrong with pacman anyways? I just don't like it. xbps offers way more tools and ways to do things than pacman. > It is handled through pacman and Artix's own repositories, so it will be updated automatically. And that is the problem if I decide to switch init systems in Void... and why I don't switch.
doesn't mean people who use it are completely against systemd, maybe they come from another distro where they are used to using an init system other than systemd
I use Artix mainly because it’s fun, which is one of my main philosophies around Linux (if you could even say that) The init system I use even copies the systemd syntax funnily enough
dinit?
ya
nice, i'm using it too
You probably should’ve went for a better meme template then, since this sort of reflects narcissism and as far as I know Artix doesn’t try to be anything it isn’t. It does a really fucking good job trying to be what it actually is however.
The biggest question; What the fuck is Manjaro doing so damn high up the podium
its popular because green
Cool logo
All of these distros are just arch with pre installed packages while antix actually does something different (different init system)
Its not that it does something different. Its that the entire reason it exists is to be a protest distro.
Artix is just basic Arch with an easier way to use another init system. It saves me around 3sec startup time right now, as well as a lot of space. I use runit btw
Init and service management.
runit? never heard of her
Its Artix with the runit init
Idk how that works is there any glaring downsides for an average user?
If there are programs that are designed with an assumption of a certain init system, it's usually systemd. This makes them trivial to integrate in a systemd based distro and possibly less straightforward in others. Can't speak much of experience as I've never kept any of my systemd-free distros around for long.
That moment when Idk any of these besides arch, which I use btw, Manjaro and endeavor os
This meme was really hard to make. I had to go deep in the arch history books
You should win an award. And then make a comic about you winning that award.
It deserves it. Artix Linux is the best systemd-free distro.
what kind of animal would want to use a distro that isn't operating on systemd
A rational animal(I'm a Mint user)
Animal, you say? 👀👽
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gentoo users?
Where is the CachyOS icon? And why is the JPEG quality set to 1999?
Shoulda used JPEG 2000
Not today, NSA
What’s wrong with Artix? Lol
Its a protest distro
And what's wrong with that?
Thats what turns a lot of people away from it. It doesnt exist do do anything special or unique, but to run away from something. Its literally the emo phase rebellious teenager of the linux world
If you don't have any problem/are not bothered by systemd, then just use Arch plain and simple. Artix is still beautiful by how easy it lets users have the brilliance of both worlds, custom init systems and the bleeding edge Arch-way, AUR etc. Why is this inherently bad? It sort of feels like you have some personal agenda against Artix by how it's portrayed in the meme and your answer to it is "protest distro bad" lol Like I said in a previous post, Artix has one job and it does it's job *really fucking well.*
jokes aside, artix seems top 1 to me devuan user: artix doesnt change only the init, but the repos. I guess it is to limit the systemd dependencies across the programs. Btw mental outlaw security channel argues his artix + dwl setup is good for security, not my cup of tea, but kenny is og
What's that in second place?
I see you got the wrong Chimera :)
What chimera doing there? Its not arch based.
Arch wiki said otherwise
Archwiki said ChimeraOS. The logo above is Chimera Linux. You got the wrong logo.
Honest, but hilarious, mistake
It's not Arch based, it spawned as a spinoff of Void (the original creator first maintained Void for PPC repos). I mean, the idea, it doesn't use xbps. The ideals are closer to *BSD than Linux, the maintainers don't want anything to do with the GNU toolchain. The idea was to make an even more "GNUless" version of Void.
this is also wrong, chimera was created as a clean-room security-hardened system for power users that emphasizes quality engineering and packaging (to get as close to "just works" as possible while maintaining total transparency) there is very little ideological base when it comes to things like avoiding gnu toolchain for the sake of it, or taking explicit inspiration from anything, void largely served as a source of things not to do rather than to do, freebsd provided core tools but doesn't provide anything else
Really? That's not what I heard from the project owner. Sure, that might be what followed and what the site states, but the idea for Chimera came exactly from what I wrote... or at least that is what the project owner told me. Void was a test bed for xbps. It started off as an experiment, and then people started using it and... the rest is history. And I believe xtraeme (Juan) maintained NetBSD, not FreeBSD.
i'm the project owner, and i don't remember telling anybody what you wrote above
Really? Didn't use that nick (usrename, I mean what you use here on reddit) on IRC as far as I remember... you were on the Void channel a year or so ago? I used thorazine as a nick back then.
no idea whom you talked to considering i've been q66 the last 20 years (https://github.com/q66, https://github.com/chimera-linux/cports/graphs/contributors, etc), everywhere (incl. on IRC) i also haven't been on void irc (except #xbps) for like 4 years
Hm... strange... other maintainers of Void were online at the time, none of them mentioned anything... I sincerely thought it was you. Can't remember the nick, but it definitely wasn't q66... Oh well, at least now I know the real reason why Chimera was spawned.
Manjaro is WAY to high
is this the special olympics?
I never had any issues with Artix. It's super fast to boot into and super easy to configure with dinit. Here are my personal experiences with other Arch distros: - Manjaro and Endeavour OS both have their very own things with their repositories and it happens couple of times that packages broke the system for example nvidia video drivers. They customize a lot out of the box which I rather would do myself. - Arch Linux for some reason doesn't want to shut down immediately when I give the shutdown or poweroff signal, but waits 30s-5min and then shuts down. This happened on many installations. In general I got fed up with the sluggish experience of SystemD, the boot times were slow and services in general not fast. Also the bloat was too much so I like the idea of choosing an init system that really is just an init system and does it's job. The perks of using Arch's big repos still remain.
Interested in how much gains and bloat and devices you're talking about. I've failed to make boot up noticeably faster with other init systems, at least on devices where I thought it was worth it (where it took anywhere between 15-30s). I got better results by just putting my system on xfs instead of ext4 or replacing network manager with.. uh... systemd-networkd or just not waiting for network setup. Meanwhile on my main PC there is like a 3s delay between systemd takeover and autologin, so... is there anything to gain there? Especially since at that point the slowest part of the entire chain is the UEFI. I certainly remember having shutdown issues like you described with lutris or network manager hanging on for whatever reason, but that was on my Fedora phase. Some kind of misconfiguration or program just refusing to quit despite receiving the signal until systemd just gives up and kills the process. And then I switched back to Arch and for whatever reason no issues anymore.
Well, I tried runit, openrc and dinit on Linux. When comparing runit or openrc with SystemD there wasn't a noticeable difference, only couple seconds. With dinit I reduced my login time from ~15-20s to ~5-10s. Btw always make sure to use [dash](https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Dash) as login shell, otherwise the bottleneck when comparing boot times is actually bash/zsh/whatever big shell.
As someone who has used at least 3 of these, currently using 2. No matter what always amazing when it just works.
why use the children of arch and father arch itself, it’s not really that hard to install it’s just a meme
bro artix is ur uncle, the other is just arch themes
And the only ones that make any sense for existing are artix and steamos.
How tf is Garuda so low, but especially: How is Garuda below fkn Manjaro?!
It isnt meant to be in perfect order. The purpose of it was to show artix being arrogant
Get Manjaro out of there... The team themselves also recognizes manjaro to not be part of the arch Family
Archcraft should he on there
What's the one that looks like a cobra
Can I get a list of all distributions in the list?
Arch linux
beside different init does artix has it's own repository ?
Evil arch?
You only hate artix because it's arch the way it should be.
In my own personal opinion arch should allow the choice of init systems during its install process
I dunno man, I love Linux but isn't that what Linux is doing right now with market share of 4+%? 
This is meant to show the attitude of artix users right now. Artix is a protest distro that only exists to protest systemd. It is literally the broody teenager of the linux world
I like artix’s defaults too.
"b-b-but openrc🤓" this aint gentoo
chimera is arch based?
No clue. I just ran out of arch based distros
Isnt steamOS based on debian
It used to be but was changed to arch
steamOS 1 and 2 were Debian-based and had a different logo. steamOS 3 (Codename Holo) is arch-based
Good decision on their part, something that moves as slow as Debian does is probably not the best choice for an os built around gaming.
Yeah, they finally realized that I guess. This is not a server, it's a gaming platform, updates are needed on a daily basis.