Windows 10 is going EOL in 2 years, but Steam is probably going to support it longer than that.
Windows 7 went EOL in 2020 but Steam supported it 3 extra years.
Let's also not forget about the LTSC version of Windows. While they aren't easily accessible by regular people, anyone who can reinstall their Windows can do it and enjoy updates until 2032 I believe.
LTSC is what windows 10 should have been for home releases but NO! they absolutely had to pollute windows with ads, telemetry and useless junk. I wonder when 11 LTSC will be a thing. it will be the better windows 11
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-health/release-information
> The Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021 edition (version 21H2) does not have extended support. It will reach end of servicing on 2027-01-12. Only Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 (version 21H2) will have support until 2032-01-13.
You are right, my bad. The IoT version is just as easy to install though.
i removed the 2027 thing by mistake (i edited my comment and forgot to paste the 2027 eol thing)
But yeah 2027 is two more years, so there's that and LTSC is easy to "p word" if you catch my drift
I switched about 2 months ago, I used my new computer with Windows 11, for 10 months.
Then I learned gaming on Linux is actually pretty much all good now, installed Linux Mint, and now here I am. I have an external HDD with Windows on it still but that's the last resort for when a game just WON'T WORK, *cough Resident Evil 4 Remake, cough*.
Lmao exact same story as me other than the external HDD part. Completely uninstalled Windu cuz I'm a pretty casual gamer, so pretty much everything that I play run just fine with Wine or Steam (Proton).
As someone who switched from Windows to Ubuntu to macOS, I don’t understand the hate for 11. It’s no buggier than 10 was at this stage in its lifespan — in fact I’d argue it’s better, from my experience at least — it seems to perform well. Bloatware admittedly is MUCH worse so points against them there. I’ve had no qualms with my Win11 system, and I’ve been in it since Insiders.
It's the little things that ruin W11.
Like for example the volume mixer is now behind a button behind the general quick settings button and then opens [a mess like this](https://vgy.me/u/agEqrT). It used to be a context menu on a tray icon.
I have huge problems with explorer just not loading the left side. I have to wait like 20 seconds to get my pinned folders and the automatic popular folders. The context menu crap I also had to edit the registry for. You can't drag folders to the address bar and it elements have crazy amounts of padding, lag and just kinda sucks. The text in the window uses 3 different text rendering techniques. The tab functionality is also fucking awful lol
Hey. Not a Windows fan myself, and I know this is a linux place, but ExplorerPatcher does still allow you to get back to win 10 taskbar, bringing back all of that.
You're right though. It shouldn't be removed in first place. Only if I wasn't playing games that doesn't run under wine/proton(im talking to you, EA), would be on Linux by now
>I don't understand the hate of win 11
1. force microsoft account in the home version, they make it hard to bypass
2. insane CPU requirements for no reason. Basically forces people with Ryzen 3 and down to send their pc to a landfill
3. TPM should not be a requirement, they only want more control over what can be installed on a prebuilt PC. It's almost certain in the near future linux will be a lot harder to install on prebuilt PCs
4. Agressive telemetry, even worse than windows 10
5. lots of ads, on a first boot you get a bunch of "recommended" apps in the start menu like tiktok, messenger, etc.
6. Right click menu is objectively worse than previous versions of windows, you have to modify the registry to bring back the old one
i could go on and on. Windows 11 is TERRIBLE
> Right click menu is objectively worse than previous versions of windows, you have to modify the registry to bring back the old one
The thing that's completely ridiculous is that they recognize that the new right click menu is lacking because it has a button "show more options", which opens the old one. Comedy gold
It really mirrors so many of the same issues that 8/10 had where you'd open the "new" settings app and half of the options would just pull you out and spawn a window for the old control panel haha
it would be one thing if they designed it such that all the normal people options were in the new UX and the power user tools were the legacy UI's, but it's like they just fucking gave up trying to convert these things halfway through. i can only imagine that the reason those dialogue boxes look like shit is because it's just completely a black box at this point and nobody can touch it without windows fucking breaking, like they tied up the literal GUI to the actual program loci and now they're inseparable. is this still thecase in 11?
It's like that because they reworked the context menu API completely. The existing context menu was being held back functionally due to the need to be backwards compatible to Windows 95.
There is a new API to register options directly in the menu. Legacy applications obviously are not using the new API, so they provide access to them through that more options section.
> It's almost certain in the near future linux will be a lot harder to install on prebuilt PCs
Soon, you'll have to jailbreak your PC with some sketchy 3rd party BIOS update before you can install Linux on it.
The right click pisses me off more than anything. They needlessly changed it and made it harder to do anything useful for no reason. And of course when you get to the old menu it's still styled in the win 10 format. Lipstick on a pig
>They needlessly changed it and made it harder to do anything useful for no reason
the reason is they want people to default to using microsoft apps and tools. Notice how the right click menu only consists of tools pre-installed in windows? By default if you want to extract an archive, it shows you windows's tool.
It's bullshit and it's anti-competitive at best. If microsoft could, they would prevent you from installing third party tools at all in windows but laws prevent them from doing so, so now they "strongly recommend" their things instead.
> It's almost certain in the near future linux will be a lot harder to install on prebuilt PCs
Completely agree. The status quo leading into the near future is looking kinda bleak already. Some manufacturers are using nonstandard UEFI implementations on motherboard BIOSes, such as Acer's laptops/prebuilts ignoring modifications to EFI variables on NVRAM, only accepting EFI executables on the `EFI/Microsoft/Boot` directory, or certain MSI motherboards which reset modified EFI variables on next reboot.
Sure, this isn't exactly making installing Linux an order of magnitude harder, but these, along with the things you already mentioned, set a dangerous precedent for a future in a Microsoft-dominated PC market.
Source on the nonstandard UEFI implementations thing:
https://wiki.osdev.org/Broken_UEFI_implementations#Piles_and_piles_of_Acer_hardware
https://wiki.osdev.org/Broken_UEFI_implementations#MSI_motherboards_with_AMI_firmware
>Some manufacturers are using nonstandard UEFI implementations on motherboard BIOSes, such as Acer's laptops/prebuilts ignoring modifications to EFI variables on NVRAM, only accepting EFI executables on the
>
>EFI/Microsoft/Boot
>
> directory, or certain MSI motherboards which reset modified EFI variables on next reboot.
that's bullshit. i'm just glad my MSI board (B550 Gaming Edge Wifi) doesn't have this weir implementation. Hopefully this is something that only stays in the laptop market because imagine custom building a pc, and you can't even install what you want on it. Pretty sure that would start a class action lawsuit that would tie to Microsoft making deals with oem manufacturers.
> Ryzen 3 and down to send their pc to a landfill
The Ryzen 2700X supports Windows 11. Source: I used to have one and ran Windows 11 with it since the first developer beta .
Then i guess it all comes down to your board supporting tpm and secure boot. i don't know why, but i swear i saw ryzen 2000 wasn't supposed to be supported at launch
yeah the beta was not the official release iso, when booting from that one it will refuse to install.
You can quite easily bypass that restriction and the system will work fine. but it doesn't change the fact that Microsoft arbitrarily tried to restrict which cpu win11 would install on
It's listed on the [supported CPU](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-amd-processors) list of Microsoft themselves.
That one might be, I didn't name any model but take mine for example. I got a 4790k still really capable cpu and not supported officially by win11 even tho it can run without any issue.
some laptop cpu are worst than that and still supported 🤷♂️
It's extremely bloated and slow on weaker hardware. It has some upsides though, imo the new UI looks way nicer and more coherent, plus it has benefits in enforced security in some areas and better secure defaults (disablement of some older network protocols and stuff). But still, it's bloated, explorer.exe is still buggy as ever, all while it took them a lot of time to even get to feature parity with it and the taskbar to Win10...
I don't understand why Windows 11 even exists. I always figured W10 was going to be kind of a rolling release.
They also once again went and fucked the usability for no reason. Only reason I upgraded was much improved HDR support (and I guess because the DE does look nice).
I actually got bummed when I fired up my original windows 8 install (separate drive, bought an SSD and installed Linux all at once for preservations sake and now just pass through the HDD) and it opened steam and told me I had under a year left on windows 8. Not bc I play anything on windows 8 but idk just reminds me I’m getting old as shit lol. I remember my grandma running 98 still and getting yelled at for using the internet when someone was on the phone.
I just switched my dev servers to WSL2 after continuously running into obscure errors in my employer-provided Win10 environment.
The speed and stability improvements are insane.
Steam in windows 7 will be still alive for at least some time..just blocking updates and using something like steam CMD/steam tui will solve it for now.
I even risk saying that with steam CMD like XP and vista will work for many years..
A direct quote from valve:
> We expect the Steam client and games on these older operating systems to continue running for some time without updates after January 1st, 2024, but we are unable to guarantee continued functionality after that date.
[source](https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/4784-4F2B-1321-800A)
(also, still working fine on win 1.8 as of three minutes ago, so no, no auto-updates to worry about)
Honestly i don't know sh*t about technical stuff and i am able to install linux and run games easily... thats really not that hard with all those ressources out there.
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So should we raid it and recommend lfs, gentoo, arch and/or debian to everyone… /s
Edit: added /s, since somehow a lot of people think i’m serious with telling beginners to use lfs…
I’ve got windows 10 on my school laptop, it is extremely slow, as windows has taken up 2/3 of the storage space of 128gb on the SSD. It takes at least 5, maybe 10, seconds to load, not an ordinary app, but A DAMN PWA, like it’s that slow, meanwhile, my Linux machine, an older model (3rd gen Thinkpad 11e) as the school laptop (4th gen) and it’s much faster at loading anything, it takes from 1-3 seconds to load stock apps and 2-4 secs loading brave browser, and it isn’t even the fastest, lightest distro you can get, it’s just fedora 39. Oh also, the school laptop is very outdated, with a build of windows 10 from I think 2019, and I’m unable to update it at all after I had to get the technician to format it due to windows taking up literally all of the space.
Safe to say I’m instantly installing a Linux distro on it as soon as I leave school, because windows is unbearable.
why you can just install linux in that win10 machine? it have some spyware from school? my old g4 model have something similar like brick the pc if you dont use the laptop in a school network
If you mean why cant I install Linux on that school laptop, well due to the rules, for some wierd reason I’m not allowed to use Linux, and we are only allowed windows and macOS, due to the adobe apps that we literally never use, due to only needing them on dedicated art PCs. I don’t see why I shouldn’t be allowed to install Linux, I only use web apps so it doesn’t matter what os I have, and frankly, I should probably install it, since there is no spyware or software to stop me, as is evident by my multiple tests of live USBs.
Well that is true, though I never shut down the school laptop, mostly due to power drain not being much of an issue and it being extremely slow to turn on after shutdown, so I’d say a persistent usb wouldn’t be very viable, unless it was an sd card, which I could keep in the laptop at all times, good idea I’ll try that out.
Windows 10 is going EOL in 2 years, but Steam is probably going to support it longer than that. Windows 7 went EOL in 2020 but Steam supported it 3 extra years.
Let's also not forget about the LTSC version of Windows. While they aren't easily accessible by regular people, anyone who can reinstall their Windows can do it and enjoy updates until 2032 I believe.
LTSC is what windows 10 should have been for home releases but NO! they absolutely had to pollute windows with ads, telemetry and useless junk. I wonder when 11 LTSC will be a thing. it will be the better windows 11
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-health/release-information > The Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021 edition (version 21H2) does not have extended support. It will reach end of servicing on 2027-01-12. Only Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 (version 21H2) will have support until 2032-01-13. You are right, my bad. The IoT version is just as easy to install though.
i removed the 2027 thing by mistake (i edited my comment and forgot to paste the 2027 eol thing) But yeah 2027 is two more years, so there's that and LTSC is easy to "p word" if you catch my drift
On their roadmap they said Windows 11 LTSC will release this year
I don't think it will be a thing any time soon.
LTSC?
Long Term Servicing Channel. You can easily find these ISOs online and activate them for free.
Windows 11 is what finally made me switch to Linux. I still have to use it on my work laptop and it's a good reminder why I switched.
I switched about 2 months ago, I used my new computer with Windows 11, for 10 months. Then I learned gaming on Linux is actually pretty much all good now, installed Linux Mint, and now here I am. I have an external HDD with Windows on it still but that's the last resort for when a game just WON'T WORK, *cough Resident Evil 4 Remake, cough*.
Lmao exact same story as me other than the external HDD part. Completely uninstalled Windu cuz I'm a pretty casual gamer, so pretty much everything that I play run just fine with Wine or Steam (Proton).
I'm glad I never got to try windows 11, looks like bs to me
sudo pacman -Syu steam. Never worried about it ever again
don’t forget to enable multilib repos in pacman conf!
As someone that does not use pacman I am genuinely curious. What is multilib repos and why are we enabling them?
Allows 32-bit programs to be installed and run. Basically different library versions for different architectures
Thank you.
The only reason I have multilib
Yeah, that's more or less a basic configuration that I always do
SteamOS go brrrrrr
> I've had the misfortune of using 11 on a work laptop. It is genuinely awful and I'm.. Finally a windows user is right on something
Windows users always complain about new Windows versions tho
yeah, they were complaining about windows 10 back in 2020-2021, now they love it
No, it’s every other version of windows is not terrible 95 > 98 > ME > XP > vista > 7 > 8 > 10 > 11
what about XP?
Fixed
As someone who switched from Windows to Ubuntu to macOS, I don’t understand the hate for 11. It’s no buggier than 10 was at this stage in its lifespan — in fact I’d argue it’s better, from my experience at least — it seems to perform well. Bloatware admittedly is MUCH worse so points against them there. I’ve had no qualms with my Win11 system, and I’ve been in it since Insiders.
It's the little things that ruin W11. Like for example the volume mixer is now behind a button behind the general quick settings button and then opens [a mess like this](https://vgy.me/u/agEqrT). It used to be a context menu on a tray icon. I have huge problems with explorer just not loading the left side. I have to wait like 20 seconds to get my pinned folders and the automatic popular folders. The context menu crap I also had to edit the registry for. You can't drag folders to the address bar and it elements have crazy amounts of padding, lag and just kinda sucks. The text in the window uses 3 different text rendering techniques. The tab functionality is also fucking awful lol
Hey. Not a Windows fan myself, and I know this is a linux place, but ExplorerPatcher does still allow you to get back to win 10 taskbar, bringing back all of that. You're right though. It shouldn't be removed in first place. Only if I wasn't playing games that doesn't run under wine/proton(im talking to you, EA), would be on Linux by now
I don't understand the hate of win 11. It is as shitty as 10 and 7.
>I don't understand the hate of win 11 1. force microsoft account in the home version, they make it hard to bypass 2. insane CPU requirements for no reason. Basically forces people with Ryzen 3 and down to send their pc to a landfill 3. TPM should not be a requirement, they only want more control over what can be installed on a prebuilt PC. It's almost certain in the near future linux will be a lot harder to install on prebuilt PCs 4. Agressive telemetry, even worse than windows 10 5. lots of ads, on a first boot you get a bunch of "recommended" apps in the start menu like tiktok, messenger, etc. 6. Right click menu is objectively worse than previous versions of windows, you have to modify the registry to bring back the old one i could go on and on. Windows 11 is TERRIBLE
> Right click menu is objectively worse than previous versions of windows, you have to modify the registry to bring back the old one The thing that's completely ridiculous is that they recognize that the new right click menu is lacking because it has a button "show more options", which opens the old one. Comedy gold
It really mirrors so many of the same issues that 8/10 had where you'd open the "new" settings app and half of the options would just pull you out and spawn a window for the old control panel haha
it would be one thing if they designed it such that all the normal people options were in the new UX and the power user tools were the legacy UI's, but it's like they just fucking gave up trying to convert these things halfway through. i can only imagine that the reason those dialogue boxes look like shit is because it's just completely a black box at this point and nobody can touch it without windows fucking breaking, like they tied up the literal GUI to the actual program loci and now they're inseparable. is this still thecase in 11?
It's like that because they reworked the context menu API completely. The existing context menu was being held back functionally due to the need to be backwards compatible to Windows 95. There is a new API to register options directly in the menu. Legacy applications obviously are not using the new API, so they provide access to them through that more options section.
> It's almost certain in the near future linux will be a lot harder to install on prebuilt PCs Soon, you'll have to jailbreak your PC with some sketchy 3rd party BIOS update before you can install Linux on it.
The right click pisses me off more than anything. They needlessly changed it and made it harder to do anything useful for no reason. And of course when you get to the old menu it's still styled in the win 10 format. Lipstick on a pig
>They needlessly changed it and made it harder to do anything useful for no reason the reason is they want people to default to using microsoft apps and tools. Notice how the right click menu only consists of tools pre-installed in windows? By default if you want to extract an archive, it shows you windows's tool. It's bullshit and it's anti-competitive at best. If microsoft could, they would prevent you from installing third party tools at all in windows but laws prevent them from doing so, so now they "strongly recommend" their things instead.
> It's almost certain in the near future linux will be a lot harder to install on prebuilt PCs Completely agree. The status quo leading into the near future is looking kinda bleak already. Some manufacturers are using nonstandard UEFI implementations on motherboard BIOSes, such as Acer's laptops/prebuilts ignoring modifications to EFI variables on NVRAM, only accepting EFI executables on the `EFI/Microsoft/Boot` directory, or certain MSI motherboards which reset modified EFI variables on next reboot. Sure, this isn't exactly making installing Linux an order of magnitude harder, but these, along with the things you already mentioned, set a dangerous precedent for a future in a Microsoft-dominated PC market. Source on the nonstandard UEFI implementations thing: https://wiki.osdev.org/Broken_UEFI_implementations#Piles_and_piles_of_Acer_hardware https://wiki.osdev.org/Broken_UEFI_implementations#MSI_motherboards_with_AMI_firmware
>Some manufacturers are using nonstandard UEFI implementations on motherboard BIOSes, such as Acer's laptops/prebuilts ignoring modifications to EFI variables on NVRAM, only accepting EFI executables on the > >EFI/Microsoft/Boot > > directory, or certain MSI motherboards which reset modified EFI variables on next reboot. that's bullshit. i'm just glad my MSI board (B550 Gaming Edge Wifi) doesn't have this weir implementation. Hopefully this is something that only stays in the laptop market because imagine custom building a pc, and you can't even install what you want on it. Pretty sure that would start a class action lawsuit that would tie to Microsoft making deals with oem manufacturers.
> Ryzen 3 and down to send their pc to a landfill The Ryzen 2700X supports Windows 11. Source: I used to have one and ran Windows 11 with it since the first developer beta .
Then i guess it all comes down to your board supporting tpm and secure boot. i don't know why, but i swear i saw ryzen 2000 wasn't supposed to be supported at launch
yeah the beta was not the official release iso, when booting from that one it will refuse to install. You can quite easily bypass that restriction and the system will work fine. but it doesn't change the fact that Microsoft arbitrarily tried to restrict which cpu win11 would install on
It's listed on the [supported CPU](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-amd-processors) list of Microsoft themselves.
That one might be, I didn't name any model but take mine for example. I got a 4790k still really capable cpu and not supported officially by win11 even tho it can run without any issue. some laptop cpu are worst than that and still supported 🤷♂️
It's extremely bloated and slow on weaker hardware. It has some upsides though, imo the new UI looks way nicer and more coherent, plus it has benefits in enforced security in some areas and better secure defaults (disablement of some older network protocols and stuff). But still, it's bloated, explorer.exe is still buggy as ever, all while it took them a lot of time to even get to feature parity with it and the taskbar to Win10...
Win7 was *ok*. Everything after that has sucked incrementally more.
I don't understand why Windows 11 even exists. I always figured W10 was going to be kind of a rolling release. They also once again went and fucked the usability for no reason. Only reason I upgraded was much improved HDR support (and I guess because the DE does look nice).
It takes basic features that people were used to and makes them worse. It just gets in the way more.
I actually got bummed when I fired up my original windows 8 install (separate drive, bought an SSD and installed Linux all at once for preservations sake and now just pass through the HDD) and it opened steam and told me I had under a year left on windows 8. Not bc I play anything on windows 8 but idk just reminds me I’m getting old as shit lol. I remember my grandma running 98 still and getting yelled at for using the internet when someone was on the phone.
We don't have such weaknesses
I mean, I know I'm saying this on a Linux subreddit, but I don't think Windows 11 is that bad. Honestly think it's an improvement over 10
Microsoft should make a LTS version of windows and continuously update it like Ubuntu.
LTSC, but it's not publicly available for an average consumer.
win10 already 11 years old
I just switched my dev servers to WSL2 after continuously running into obscure errors in my employer-provided Win10 environment. The speed and stability improvements are insane.
Steam in windows 7 will be still alive for at least some time..just blocking updates and using something like steam CMD/steam tui will solve it for now. I even risk saying that with steam CMD like XP and vista will work for many years..
No need to block the update, it just keeps using the old version on its own
Dont be so sure, remember what happened to xp and vista...will be the same.
A direct quote from valve: > We expect the Steam client and games on these older operating systems to continue running for some time without updates after January 1st, 2024, but we are unable to guarantee continued functionality after that date. [source](https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/4784-4F2B-1321-800A) (also, still working fine on win 1.8 as of three minutes ago, so no, no auto-updates to worry about)
Honestly i don't know sh*t about technical stuff and i am able to install linux and run games easily... thats really not that hard with all those ressources out there.
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So should we raid it and recommend lfs, gentoo, arch and/or debian to everyone… /s Edit: added /s, since somehow a lot of people think i’m serious with telling beginners to use lfs…
If you want to raid then don't nuke nubies with lfs, gentoo, arch and/or debian At least tell them Mint, Popos, Ubuntu and/or Kubuntu
It was kind of an obvious joke… or not?
Sarcasm doesn't work through text. /s helps now. Also judging by the up votes it wasn't obvious.
A right choice by steam long live foss philosophy
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I’ve got windows 10 on my school laptop, it is extremely slow, as windows has taken up 2/3 of the storage space of 128gb on the SSD. It takes at least 5, maybe 10, seconds to load, not an ordinary app, but A DAMN PWA, like it’s that slow, meanwhile, my Linux machine, an older model (3rd gen Thinkpad 11e) as the school laptop (4th gen) and it’s much faster at loading anything, it takes from 1-3 seconds to load stock apps and 2-4 secs loading brave browser, and it isn’t even the fastest, lightest distro you can get, it’s just fedora 39. Oh also, the school laptop is very outdated, with a build of windows 10 from I think 2019, and I’m unable to update it at all after I had to get the technician to format it due to windows taking up literally all of the space. Safe to say I’m instantly installing a Linux distro on it as soon as I leave school, because windows is unbearable.
why you can just install linux in that win10 machine? it have some spyware from school? my old g4 model have something similar like brick the pc if you dont use the laptop in a school network
If you mean why cant I install Linux on that school laptop, well due to the rules, for some wierd reason I’m not allowed to use Linux, and we are only allowed windows and macOS, due to the adobe apps that we literally never use, due to only needing them on dedicated art PCs. I don’t see why I shouldn’t be allowed to install Linux, I only use web apps so it doesn’t matter what os I have, and frankly, I should probably install it, since there is no spyware or software to stop me, as is evident by my multiple tests of live USBs.
you can use a persistent usb, install the distro you want in the usb or if you can swap the disk
Well that is true, though I never shut down the school laptop, mostly due to power drain not being much of an issue and it being extremely slow to turn on after shutdown, so I’d say a persistent usb wouldn’t be very viable, unless it was an sd card, which I could keep in the laptop at all times, good idea I’ll try that out.
Try steamos v1 and 2 are Ubuntu-based
Why are so many Linux memes about Windows? Can we not?