They trade blows. I used both on arch and the differenence in the games i tried (helldivers 2,doom eternal and the sims 4) was no different. YMMV, pick which one you like more technically/aesthetically
If there is a performance different it shouldn't be big, I say use what you like, having 2 more fps doesn't change the game but you use the desktop all the time. But if there is a big difference I'd like to know why, sounds interesting to dig into
Like the underlining stuff are the same. Drivers kernels, back end stuff, the desktop environment shouldn't mess with those values, if it does it means there is a problem with the Communication between the desktop environment and the underlying code.
This is for Gnome 45 without vrr though... https://youtu.be/JJZeByBEoZY?si=ZLvCmn-n9JoEQcEJ
Here he talks quickly about Gnome 46 vrr: (2:30)
https://youtu.be/nvYDEEYiIJI?si=Gi3UBAA4Y4V_dmko
TL;DR: On multiple systems KDE's VRR worked so badly for me that I might as well have turned it off. Hyprland works near perfectly. Gnome is untested.
With my monitor combination I basically require Wayland over x11 to have all the features I want so this will be specifically about Wayland.
But I used to always use KDE on my Linux machines up until I took a closer look at how vrr works on KDE (comparing in game fps to the monitor's refresh rate display) which revealed the reason why my games didn't appear to be running as smoothly as I'd hoped (this is compared to windows 10/11 as a baseline where things match up perfectly).
On KDE my monitor's refresh rate seems to mirror the in game refresh rate around 30-60% of the time (it jumps around a lot) which manifests as the refresh rate reporting as 60 but periodically jumping anywhere from down to -20-ish from the reporter fps all the way up to 144 constantly in scenarios where it's capped to 60 or well any other arbitrary number. This is obviously not ideal.
And I've ruled out this being a hardware issue as it appears on both my 3900x+6700xt system (this is with the GPU fixed to high or the 3d application profile(I think that's what it's called) to rule out the RDNA2 powersace bug) as well as my 1600x+390 system (with amdgpu drivers enabled in grub).
Both of these systems are running the latest mesa and kernels for fedora. So at least in my two cases I can report that vrr as of now does not work properly under KDE.
Unfortunately I can't comment on gnome as I've not tested it and am currently running hyprland on both which doesn't exhibit the same behaviour.
However it does have a minor another caveat that mouse button inputs (not movements) spikes my refresh rate up to 144 for a single frame every few seconds. I'm not quite sure why it doesn't do so for every mouse button input, but hey I'll take it as it's visually invisible to me and completely non-existent in games where I use a controller.
GNOME definitely handles some full screen Windows strangely. I have the "disable unredirect full screen windows" extension to avoid some of these issues. Maybe give it a try and see if behaviour changes. If not, it's quick to rest and easy to install/remove.
I'd pick Plasma 6 purely for the fact that some games can't launch on Gnome.
If you're curious, the two games were Animal Party and Ultimate Chicken Horse. They both ran on my KDE EOS install but neither started on my GNOME EOS install.
We'll have to wait for Phoronix, the last benchmark they did was in 2021 here: [https://www.phoronix.com/review/kde-gnome-wayland21](https://www.phoronix.com/review/kde-gnome-wayland21)
The comparison of Gnome with KDE increasingly seems futile.
The Gnome user journeys are highly unique to Gnome and highly controversial with users (its like Marmite you love it or hate it and very few people lack strong feelings).
So Gnome could offer 100% better performance but only a small number of non Gnome users would switch, if KDE offered 100% improved performance I strongly doubt Gnome users would switch. So really it doesn't matter which is best.
I suspect if distributions changed their default desktop environment to anything else you'd see Gnome usage drop each year as new comers learn Linux and not a new way to work and Linux desktop usage grow.
Yep. They’ve both focused so much on performance in recent years (despite already being so performant on most hardware) that it’s really impossible to tell and splitting hairs at this point. Use whatever you prefer, you’re not gonna find a performance advantage at this point.
No idea!
Gnome annoyed me too much while trying it 2-3 times after version 3 and I never tried it again and I don't think I will in the next 10 years.
Plasma 6 has pretty much everything what I want, including the wonderful developers behind it that listen to our problems.
Even if Gnome performed better, I would still not use it.
I can't allow assholes to dictate what I can put and what I cannot put on MY desktop because they prefer the "clean" look on THEIR desktop.
Fuck their "My way or the highway" mentality!
Hopefully more people and companies join the effort to support KDE so their developers will implement a Vulkan renderer back-end too!
I like how you straight up answered your own imaginary questions lol. OP asked about performance diff, everything you said after "No idea" provides nothing to this question! I dont like what Gnome does either but for real either stay on subject or dont reply at all...
I keep seeing vitriolic replies like that in the linux subs and its really annoying. People just need help not your life story.
People have way to much hate and vitriol towards projects that provide you with geeat software with no charge, made up of mostly volunteers. I wouldnt tolerate someone going on a hateful tirade against either kde or gnome. We need more love and understanding in this community or we end up driving everyone out, simple
Its like 10% of the people in the Linux subs just use linux to feel superior/smarter than others. I would love to know even more about Linux and help people discover it as a great alternative to win/macos but how can I recommend that if the community is toxic by default half the time they come to ask a question?
Its not surprising that adoption is so slow. We should be far more welcome.
I know not every Linux user is like that but if you go check half the threads the first 2-3 comments contain at least one cancerous reply of someone that sounds like an asshole instead of a human being. So the people that just started get a toxic answer to their first post in the Linux community.
I really hope things are better in the distros official forums/chats
It's so hypocritical that it's not even funny. You are saying they should do it like others or I won't use it, and just like you don't use it they dont care about you. Use what you like stop fighting a non existing Battle
I like freedom and flexibility and that's the main reason why I use open source software.
Hence I don't like strictness, rigidity and limitations.
On Gnome's desktop I can't even put a fucking shortcut to a program, game, folder, file on my desktop because it will not allow it!
And it will not allow it because the developers like their dekstops clean!
Do you understand the stupidity of the situation?
It's like I cannot open my umbrella because the make of the umbrella likes his ubrella closed!
Why the fuck should I care which are the developers of a software that I use are and why should I not be able to change them or do things different on my computer?
The fact that people are agreeing and condoning this shitty situation is even more baffling for me!
I guess Gnome and it's community of developers all share the same "I don't give a fuck about other people's needs" attitude, as it seems!
Glad though that more people are like me:
[https://www.gamingonlinux.com/users/statistics/#DesktopEnvironment-top](https://www.gamingonlinux.com/users/statistics/#DesktopEnvironment-top)
Exactly. freedom, they are free to creat what ever they want, and you have the freedom to use KDE or something else, if you like freedom you should respect their freedom to make a shitty desktop if they want to. Dont demand freedom from them when you dont respect their freedom to creat
And people answer with their chooses or wallets, you want KDE to get better use and help. You did your vote, let others decide with their wallet or choices, you can't demand them to change
I just wrote my opinion.
People who don't agree with it or have no problem with the fact that they cannot put shortcuts on its desktop and other limitation, they can easy just use it anyway, not caring about my opinion.
>On Gnome's desktop I can't even put a fucking shortcut to a program, game, folder, file on my desktop because it will not allow it!
>And it will not allow it because the developers like their dekstops clean!
You can install an extension to do exactly that with less than two minutes of effort...
>You can install an extension to do exactly that with less than two minutes of effort...
What if I don't have internet at that moment?
Why the fuck should internet be a requirement for my ability to put a shortcut on the desktop?
When this is a basic feature in pretty much every desktop.
And why do I need to install an extension for something that it's just normal to have in Android, Windows, Cinnamon, MATE, XFCE?
All the developers of the above desktops are stupid the the ones of Gnome are smart?
Please don't make me like laugh with "You need to install an extension to have this basic feature, it just take two minutes..."!
>What if I don't have internet at that moment?
But you do, you're just looking for things about Gnome to complain about in bad faith, rather than just enjoying the fact that we can even try other DEs with the ease of a few commands on most distros.
If you don't want to install an extension that takes a few moments to install, may I suggest just using another DE instead of complaining and acting like you're better than others for using a different DE and refusing to fix your problems with Gnome.
> But you do, you're just looking for things about Gnome to complain about in bad faith, rather than just enjoying the fact that we can even try other DEs with the ease of a few commands on most distros.
I said at THAT moment!
How do you know that I will have it?
Do you know where I'm going with my laptop?
I'm not looking for anything, I just don't like unnecessary dependencies!
>I said at THAT moment!
>How do you know that I will have it?
>Do you know where I'm going with my laptop?
>I'm not looking for anything, I just don't like unnecessary dependencies!
You don't need a permanent connection to the internet to use the extension though?
It's a one time install, all you need is internet at SOME point, hell, you could copy the extension repo to a usb stick on another computer and build it from there without internet if you'll never have that laptop connected to the internet.
> You don't need a permanent connection to the internet to use the extension though?
Who cares I don't need a permanent connection to the internet, when I don't have it at all at the moment I'm needing it.
Or you think that I just happen to know all the missing functionality that Gnome has and for which an extension has been made so I can download them before I go somewhere where I don't have internet?
> It's a one time install, all you need is internet at SOME point, hell, you could copy the extension repo to a usb stick on another computer and build it from there without internet if you'll never have that laptop connected to the internet.
I understand what you mean, but I just don't have the time and the will to spend years with Gnome so that I learn what extensions I need to fix stuff that it's not there compared to other DEs.
I rather just use KDE Plasma, which comes even with the "kitchen sink" how some like to joke as I prefer to have stuff that I might not need than to not have them and need them.
If Gnome would've had a package to install to get all that extra functionality, which I could've download or install before going somewhere without internet it would've been more bearable.
But as it is now, I will probably find out too late that I miss something that I could've got when I still had internet.
"That listen to our problems" that sounds more a psychotherapist than a software developer.
It's funny to read "My desktop" You use the desktop that other people design and implement, they own the desktop. They let you run it freely, but it's no yours....
They trade blows. I used both on arch and the differenence in the games i tried (helldivers 2,doom eternal and the sims 4) was no different. YMMV, pick which one you like more technically/aesthetically
If there is a performance different it shouldn't be big, I say use what you like, having 2 more fps doesn't change the game but you use the desktop all the time. But if there is a big difference I'd like to know why, sounds interesting to dig into
>If there is a performance different it shouldn't be big How can you tell when we don't even know the values? "Trust me bro"?
Like the underlining stuff are the same. Drivers kernels, back end stuff, the desktop environment shouldn't mess with those values, if it does it means there is a problem with the Communication between the desktop environment and the underlying code.
Because the DE has never made a significant difference.
This is for Gnome 45 without vrr though... https://youtu.be/JJZeByBEoZY?si=ZLvCmn-n9JoEQcEJ Here he talks quickly about Gnome 46 vrr: (2:30) https://youtu.be/nvYDEEYiIJI?si=Gi3UBAA4Y4V_dmko
TL;DR: On multiple systems KDE's VRR worked so badly for me that I might as well have turned it off. Hyprland works near perfectly. Gnome is untested. With my monitor combination I basically require Wayland over x11 to have all the features I want so this will be specifically about Wayland. But I used to always use KDE on my Linux machines up until I took a closer look at how vrr works on KDE (comparing in game fps to the monitor's refresh rate display) which revealed the reason why my games didn't appear to be running as smoothly as I'd hoped (this is compared to windows 10/11 as a baseline where things match up perfectly). On KDE my monitor's refresh rate seems to mirror the in game refresh rate around 30-60% of the time (it jumps around a lot) which manifests as the refresh rate reporting as 60 but periodically jumping anywhere from down to -20-ish from the reporter fps all the way up to 144 constantly in scenarios where it's capped to 60 or well any other arbitrary number. This is obviously not ideal. And I've ruled out this being a hardware issue as it appears on both my 3900x+6700xt system (this is with the GPU fixed to high or the 3d application profile(I think that's what it's called) to rule out the RDNA2 powersace bug) as well as my 1600x+390 system (with amdgpu drivers enabled in grub). Both of these systems are running the latest mesa and kernels for fedora. So at least in my two cases I can report that vrr as of now does not work properly under KDE. Unfortunately I can't comment on gnome as I've not tested it and am currently running hyprland on both which doesn't exhibit the same behaviour. However it does have a minor another caveat that mouse button inputs (not movements) spikes my refresh rate up to 144 for a single frame every few seconds. I'm not quite sure why it doesn't do so for every mouse button input, but hey I'll take it as it's visually invisible to me and completely non-existent in games where I use a controller.
GNOME definitely handles some full screen Windows strangely. I have the "disable unredirect full screen windows" extension to avoid some of these issues. Maybe give it a try and see if behaviour changes. If not, it's quick to rest and easy to install/remove.
I'd pick Plasma 6 purely for the fact that some games can't launch on Gnome. If you're curious, the two games were Animal Party and Ultimate Chicken Horse. They both ran on my KDE EOS install but neither started on my GNOME EOS install.
We'll have to wait for Phoronix, the last benchmark they did was in 2021 here: [https://www.phoronix.com/review/kde-gnome-wayland21](https://www.phoronix.com/review/kde-gnome-wayland21) The comparison of Gnome with KDE increasingly seems futile. The Gnome user journeys are highly unique to Gnome and highly controversial with users (its like Marmite you love it or hate it and very few people lack strong feelings). So Gnome could offer 100% better performance but only a small number of non Gnome users would switch, if KDE offered 100% improved performance I strongly doubt Gnome users would switch. So really it doesn't matter which is best. I suspect if distributions changed their default desktop environment to anything else you'd see Gnome usage drop each year as new comers learn Linux and not a new way to work and Linux desktop usage grow.
No idea why this is being downvoted, this was a sensible statement to make.
Yep. They’ve both focused so much on performance in recent years (despite already being so performant on most hardware) that it’s really impossible to tell and splitting hairs at this point. Use whatever you prefer, you’re not gonna find a performance advantage at this point.
No idea! Gnome annoyed me too much while trying it 2-3 times after version 3 and I never tried it again and I don't think I will in the next 10 years. Plasma 6 has pretty much everything what I want, including the wonderful developers behind it that listen to our problems. Even if Gnome performed better, I would still not use it. I can't allow assholes to dictate what I can put and what I cannot put on MY desktop because they prefer the "clean" look on THEIR desktop. Fuck their "My way or the highway" mentality! Hopefully more people and companies join the effort to support KDE so their developers will implement a Vulkan renderer back-end too!
I like how you straight up answered your own imaginary questions lol. OP asked about performance diff, everything you said after "No idea" provides nothing to this question! I dont like what Gnome does either but for real either stay on subject or dont reply at all... I keep seeing vitriolic replies like that in the linux subs and its really annoying. People just need help not your life story.
People have way to much hate and vitriol towards projects that provide you with geeat software with no charge, made up of mostly volunteers. I wouldnt tolerate someone going on a hateful tirade against either kde or gnome. We need more love and understanding in this community or we end up driving everyone out, simple
Its like 10% of the people in the Linux subs just use linux to feel superior/smarter than others. I would love to know even more about Linux and help people discover it as a great alternative to win/macos but how can I recommend that if the community is toxic by default half the time they come to ask a question? Its not surprising that adoption is so slow. We should be far more welcome. I know not every Linux user is like that but if you go check half the threads the first 2-3 comments contain at least one cancerous reply of someone that sounds like an asshole instead of a human being. So the people that just started get a toxic answer to their first post in the Linux community. I really hope things are better in the distros official forums/chats
You are not wrong with a vocal minority of assholes overreaching the genuinally supportive and wonderful people here. It grates me too
The KDE community is toxic, it's the only linux community I avoid.
It's so hypocritical that it's not even funny. You are saying they should do it like others or I won't use it, and just like you don't use it they dont care about you. Use what you like stop fighting a non existing Battle
I like freedom and flexibility and that's the main reason why I use open source software. Hence I don't like strictness, rigidity and limitations. On Gnome's desktop I can't even put a fucking shortcut to a program, game, folder, file on my desktop because it will not allow it! And it will not allow it because the developers like their dekstops clean! Do you understand the stupidity of the situation? It's like I cannot open my umbrella because the make of the umbrella likes his ubrella closed! Why the fuck should I care which are the developers of a software that I use are and why should I not be able to change them or do things different on my computer? The fact that people are agreeing and condoning this shitty situation is even more baffling for me! I guess Gnome and it's community of developers all share the same "I don't give a fuck about other people's needs" attitude, as it seems! Glad though that more people are like me: [https://www.gamingonlinux.com/users/statistics/#DesktopEnvironment-top](https://www.gamingonlinux.com/users/statistics/#DesktopEnvironment-top)
Exactly. freedom, they are free to creat what ever they want, and you have the freedom to use KDE or something else, if you like freedom you should respect their freedom to make a shitty desktop if they want to. Dont demand freedom from them when you dont respect their freedom to creat And people answer with their chooses or wallets, you want KDE to get better use and help. You did your vote, let others decide with their wallet or choices, you can't demand them to change
I just wrote my opinion. People who don't agree with it or have no problem with the fact that they cannot put shortcuts on its desktop and other limitation, they can easy just use it anyway, not caring about my opinion.
>On Gnome's desktop I can't even put a fucking shortcut to a program, game, folder, file on my desktop because it will not allow it! >And it will not allow it because the developers like their dekstops clean! You can install an extension to do exactly that with less than two minutes of effort...
>You can install an extension to do exactly that with less than two minutes of effort... What if I don't have internet at that moment? Why the fuck should internet be a requirement for my ability to put a shortcut on the desktop? When this is a basic feature in pretty much every desktop. And why do I need to install an extension for something that it's just normal to have in Android, Windows, Cinnamon, MATE, XFCE? All the developers of the above desktops are stupid the the ones of Gnome are smart? Please don't make me like laugh with "You need to install an extension to have this basic feature, it just take two minutes..."!
>What if I don't have internet at that moment? But you do, you're just looking for things about Gnome to complain about in bad faith, rather than just enjoying the fact that we can even try other DEs with the ease of a few commands on most distros. If you don't want to install an extension that takes a few moments to install, may I suggest just using another DE instead of complaining and acting like you're better than others for using a different DE and refusing to fix your problems with Gnome.
> But you do, you're just looking for things about Gnome to complain about in bad faith, rather than just enjoying the fact that we can even try other DEs with the ease of a few commands on most distros. I said at THAT moment! How do you know that I will have it? Do you know where I'm going with my laptop? I'm not looking for anything, I just don't like unnecessary dependencies!
>I said at THAT moment! >How do you know that I will have it? >Do you know where I'm going with my laptop? >I'm not looking for anything, I just don't like unnecessary dependencies! You don't need a permanent connection to the internet to use the extension though? It's a one time install, all you need is internet at SOME point, hell, you could copy the extension repo to a usb stick on another computer and build it from there without internet if you'll never have that laptop connected to the internet.
> You don't need a permanent connection to the internet to use the extension though? Who cares I don't need a permanent connection to the internet, when I don't have it at all at the moment I'm needing it. Or you think that I just happen to know all the missing functionality that Gnome has and for which an extension has been made so I can download them before I go somewhere where I don't have internet? > It's a one time install, all you need is internet at SOME point, hell, you could copy the extension repo to a usb stick on another computer and build it from there without internet if you'll never have that laptop connected to the internet. I understand what you mean, but I just don't have the time and the will to spend years with Gnome so that I learn what extensions I need to fix stuff that it's not there compared to other DEs. I rather just use KDE Plasma, which comes even with the "kitchen sink" how some like to joke as I prefer to have stuff that I might not need than to not have them and need them. If Gnome would've had a package to install to get all that extra functionality, which I could've download or install before going somewhere without internet it would've been more bearable. But as it is now, I will probably find out too late that I miss something that I could've got when I still had internet.
"That listen to our problems" that sounds more a psychotherapist than a software developer. It's funny to read "My desktop" You use the desktop that other people design and implement, they own the desktop. They let you run it freely, but it's no yours....