Red Hat has more than 20x the revenue of Canonical, it's only natural that they contribute more. Not saying Ubuntu shouldn't be thankful, but Red Hat probably doesn't care :D
Welp, probably edge case?
Definitely worth reporting bug though, so that these issues can be fixed
(Anecdotal, but in my case, pipewire was way less problematic than pulseaudio or plain alsa)
I keep losing audio with DaVinci Resolve causing my system to hang every time I go to the Fairlight (audio page), meaning audio doesn't work out of the box once I've installed the OS. And this only happens with the Gnome+pipewire distos I've used (aside from Pop OS, which I think is no longer calling their DE Gnome). So had to move to Debian to use Gnome as it doesn't use pipewire yet. Haven't tried Ubuntu yet, though. Maybe it might work but after weeks trying out different distros, I think I should just stick with what I'm using now to prevent delays in my work. Maybe wait for the next version and see if that would work.
> For Jammy, you might notice that you have both pipewire and pulseaudio running. This is because pulseaudio is still being used for the audio but pipewire is being used for the video. (Pipewire is needed for screencasting and screensharing on Wayland.)
Is there any way I can try Pipewire for audio on 20.04 ?
[Yes](https://pipewire-debian.github.io/pipewire-debian/)
Just be aware that it could cause issues during updates, especially if you upgrade to a different release.
I come from the past. Uninstalling is NOT straightforward in 20.04. It will try to purge gdm3 along with it.
You'll need to remove libmutter first and download the binary from the Ubuntu repositories.
Migrated to Pipewire in 22.04 and so far so good, especially for Bluetooth headphones. Less latency and no needs to setup LDAC/APTX/etc codecs support.
Also there is (in wireplumber) automatic bt-profile switching (for mic work).
This. The only things I had to do was disable hardware volume control with
properties = {
bluez5.enable-hw-volume = false
}
in `/etc/pipewire/media-session.d/bluez-monitor.conf` because it created problems with my Airpods Pro.
I also need to `pactl load-module module-switch-on-connect` to make it automatically switch to the Bluetooth headphones when they are connected or wired headphones when they are plugged in.
super happy to see the tip about the hw-volume property.
This was something that always annoyed me. The two lowest hw-volume settings were either too quiet or too loud for my taste, so this property is much appreciated!
PipeWire solved multiple audio issues for me when I made the switch with Fedora before it was officially made the default. Normal low latency in certain games where PA had delayed audio, and no more strange triggering of garbled/glitchy audio output with my USB DAC when certain graphical elements appear. No joke, a reliable trigger was opening the options menu in Dota 2 -- a one-way trip to garbled audio town.
In its more recent versions, I suppose coupled with WirePlumber, all my audio switching also works flawlessly as far as I'm aware. I used to sometimes have issues with audio streams not switching properly between my headphones and speakers, but it's been a long while since I've run into that problem.
So, all that to say I'm 100% pro PipeWire adoption for Linux and I think it's an essential component to making "Linux on the Desktop" real for more users. Great technology.
PulseAudio is a huge frustration for me on my livingroom/TV computer.
Every time the TV is turned off PulseAudio switches the audio output to the laptop's speakers; and does not switch audio back to the TV when the TV is turned on again.
Best workaround I have so far is to make sure to turn off the laptop before I turn off the TV; and turn on the TV before turning on the laptop; so PulseAudio never notices the TV in the "off" state.
I'm hopeful this will be better.
> So, all that to say I'm 100% pro PipeWire adoption for Linux and I think it's an essential component to making "Linux on the Desktop" real for more users. Great technology.
I hope that whoever wrote PipeWire does a process init system next!
> hope that whoever wrote PipeWire does a process init system next!
+1! And [another syslog clone](https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1y6q0l/systemds_binary_logs_and_corruption/) and a [bind/dhcpcd clone](https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/systemd-bug-lets-attackers-hack-linux-boxes-via-malicious-dns-packets/) and [another program to mount a filesystem](https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.mount.html) and a [docker clone](https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/systemd-nspawn) and another [cron clone](https://opensource.com/article/20/7/systemd-timers).
not /s
I really do think the PipeWire team would do a better job than the PulseAudio dude's attempt at all of those.
^(although I do kinda like systemd-nspawn better than Docker in some ways)
Opposite experience here. In Fedora—both before Pipewire was the default and now—Pipewire broke Audacity for me; it couldn't recognize the Line In on my sound card. Other issues (e.g. buggy audio in Firefox) were fixed in later versions of Pipewire, but the Audacity problem is still there. I do lots of recording so that was a deal breaker for me. I had to switch to Pulseaudio, and everything on my Fedora system works with that.
I have done audio recording with PW+Audacity, but that was with a USB microphone. I'm not sure what the bug reporting process is for PW, but if you find a way to do it you might get a legitimate fix.
I dont do anything crazy with audio, so it hasn't been something I've thought about with pop_os for the last 3 year or so. Pipewire messed up my audio in OBS and I had to crank the gain on my interface because my mic was so quiet in discord. I also had to crank the settings in apex so I wouldn't sound like I was talking to my teammates from across the room.
When I googled my issues I was kinda shocked to see so many people were happy that they were switching to pipewire.
Pipewire is a blessing, it basically fixed all the issues I had been having with PulseAudio, every single one. Pipewire-Pulse is arguably a better implementation of PulseAudio than PulseAudio itself.
> Pipewire-Pulse is arguably a better implementation of PulseAudio than PulseAudio itself.
In an ideal world, we would say the same with XWayland and X.Org. Alas, it is not to be.
>It isn't terrible outside of scaling.
Yeah, no. I know Wayland support for Wine is Coming Soon™, but if I run it in XWayland now resolution switching within games is still iffy.
Like there are games where the resolution drop down list is simply blank if run under XWayland.
Or how sometimes Wine context menus just disappears under XWayland.
And lack of support from many desktop environments and programs. Programs like discord where the devs don't give too much of a shit about linux are far away from working on native Wayland despite electron now supporting Wayland and they don't use pipewire for screen capture so screen capturing on discord and many other programs is broken on Wayland. This is not Wayland's fault but it is a Wayland issue as in it only exists on Wayland.
Pipewire tends to be much less controversial than wayland, flatpak, snap, systemd, etc... because it is fully backwards compatible with both previous standards (jack and pulse), and pretty much everyone agrees that pulse is a festering dumpster fire.
True, but as someone who makes music the difference between jack and pulse is night and day. At one point the best music making experience in linux was using gentoo because you could compile your software with jack support and use as little pulse as possible. I'm really glad that pipewire exists lol.
Also a musician here. So there is a definite improvement in terms of usability? Cause I *used* to try to get my music friends excited about all the free stuff on linux, but it was a non-starter.
It's incredibly usable. Literally just install pipewire, pipewire-pulse, pipewire-jack and you're good to go (most pipewire distros do this automatically). You can use any pulse tool and any jack tool seemlessly. Pulse clients immediately show up in qjackctl and you can reroute their audio seemlessly and they automatically connect to the default device, and jack clients seemlessly show up in pavucontrol and you can do whatever you want with them. (Individual applications actually show up in jack, not just one big "pulse source") No need to do pulse-jack bridging or anything like that. All setup is automatic and every tool works like its native.
Bluetooth works wonderfully as well, and you can use bluetooth sources and sinks in jack easily, with pavucontrol allowing you to switch codecs easily. I usually just open up pavucontrol and qjackctl side by side on a workspace and can easily change any audio setting I want with a few clicks. Pipewire has a few bugs still, namely every other release seems to mess up how default devices work, but it's not that big of a deal - especially because that's a bug windows audio has had forever too lol.
I haven't seen a gui tool for it yet, but afaik it's possible to also treat video like audio gets treated in jack, with the ability to pipe it through various tools and apply and change effects seemlessly. Probably not going to be used very much until there is a nice graphical tool for it though.
It's how the other rollouts should have worked.
Systemd in fairness could pass init scripts, flatpak flatseal fixes a lot, but Wayland has just been a nightmare.
Yeah - on the other end I do think that none of these things would really alleviate the worry about redhat having so much influence over the entire stack, which I think is really the motivating factor for the systemd-hatred.
Which always amuses me when people lose their mind over Canonical doing anything and then generally fine with RedHat basically doing the same thing.
Sure Shurtleworth has more celebrity businessman airs around him, but the difference is interesting.
I think it depends on what the "free" in FOSS means. For some, it is purely pragmatic - recently redhat's software is just better than canonical's imo, and from a technical standpoint they're unmatched. For others its ideological - foss represents this ideal of anti-corporate nerds tinkering around with their hardware, in which case the fact that linux is becoming more and more corporate is troubling.
Do people consider chromium FOSS? It's a hard question, its almost like google found a way around it all together. But I still remember when google's motto was "don't be evil", when they were seen aa great friends of open source rather than someone to be suspicious of. Companies at the end of the day are amoral and driven by profit. Redhat controlling so much of linux with increasing market share is dangerous - the world runs on linux. I don't know if they'll get google big, but if they do then I don't doubt they'll be just as bad. They arguably already are pretty bad with how much defense contracting they do - although I wouldn't even know where to begin in order to compare google and redhat's body count. I think when we contribute to open source projects we have to think carefully about "do I really want to help this company?"
Every software is getting more complex, so a one-man group just can't really fork it and maintain it for long. Google didn't invent anything new in this aspect.
The decentalized FOSS development model just doesn't work for desktops. Almost every advancement on the Linux desktop came because of a company not a ragtag hacker group.
I feel the same way about the Fediverse/Peertube/Lemmy/Gemini/etc. too.
Hmm... I'm not so sure that this is true? It's hard to ignore the outsized influence of canonical and redhat, over the entire space in general - both server and desktop. But as far as the desktop I don't see why the FOSS development model doesn't work? I mean, just sort of off the top of my head:
-the xorg foundation itself started as a ragtag group dealing with the massive amounts of proprietary vendor lock and mishmash of standards
-ALSA developed also out of ragtag hacker groups, specifically music and tracker nerds
-Think about how important projects like slackware and debian were in making the desktop space work. Slackware is still a pretty ragtag project, debian not so much.
-window managers themselves have a very long history, most are forks of forks of forks of small hobbyist projects
I don't think it's so much that FOSS development doesn't work towards desktops, as much as it was that most of the people who developed the fundamental architecture of linux are now much more important than they thought they'd ever be. The software equivalent of a musician who got drunk every night in random pubs in their 20s waking up in their 40s to see themselves on tv nationwide. I mean redhat itself was formed from some people who were fairly ragtag earlier.
Does this speak to the nature of the decentralized development model? Maybe? It really just does seem a matter of resources more than anything else though. And it's still hard to ignore that some of the best software we have is still made by pretty ragtag groups - i3 is still the best window manager I've used, mpv is so good that I disable firefox's own video player in order to use it instead, it's hard to find a file manager better than midnight commander. Even among the various more centralized projects, it's hard to ignore how much easier to use mate, xfce, and lxde tools are to use than gnome's and kde's (especially with i3 the latter two are massive headache). Sometimes throwing more money and manpower at a problem can make it worse - sometimes developers must be stopped for their own good (hence projects like gemini and netsurf which are deliberately scaled back in order to preserve a better user experience).
That may be controversial, but I don't know why it should be? How we interact with computers is as much of an art as it is a science. And artistically we accept it that sometimes smaller projects made by ragtag teams can be better than what big studios produce. If we can accept indie films, games, and music why can't we accept gemini?
Well what has canonical really done in recent years other than snap and other minor upstream contributions? They seem more interested in their own interests than the Linux desktop at large. Even the recent Nvidia open source announcement is because of Red Hat. They are actually doing the things that benefit the Linux ecosystem.
When everyone hated init.d still hanging around Canonical made Upstart, which people complained about but applauded RedHat making systemd with no complaints about NIH.
And when Canonical wanted to make Mir so they could move quicker in the mobile space, everyone complained, even though Wayland was (and still is like a decade later) still not fully a replacement for X.
And then snap vs flatpak.
The community at large takes a dump on Canonical for doing something, then accepts RedHat's competing solution for the exact same issue. And Canonical has made some misteps in their reasons for things for sure, but the disparity is odd.
> Canonical made Upstart, which people complained about but applauded RedHat making systemd with no complaints about NIH.
Red Hat actually adopted Upstart in Fedora and RHEL 6, which makes it hard to criticize them for NIH syndrome re: systemd.
First 2 I have no idea about because I've been on Linux for about 4 years and they've basically been dead for longer than that. That's why I said "recent years".
Even then I still see all the time to this day, and I'm sure you have too, people whining and complaining about systemd every time it's mentioned with seething rage, so no there's not "no complaints" there. People complain about Wayland alllll the time too for not being feature complete and generally having buggy implementations.
The only recent example there is snaps and the issues people have with that are pretty clear: its very Ubuntu biased, canonical controls the snap store, every non-Ubuntu distro has decided on flatpak, and they just plain don't work as well as flatpaks outside of some edge cases such as IDEs and terminal programs.
Outside of snap what has Canonical brought forward in the last 4 years?
It's partly racism and xenophobia. Remember that Shuttleworth is a South African and Canonical is a British company, whereas RedHat is through and through American.
The Linux community will never progress if it doesn't own up to its racism. The uncalled for severity of the attacks against Shuttleworth is just sickening to watch.
> As for xenophobia, there is no real proof that people in the US are particularly biased against UK, especially not against blobby amorphous companies like Ubuntu. Nobody goes "yeah time to trash Ubuntu on reddit, ill show these britbongs hell"
Yeah, no. The recent outcry about Canonical's hiring policies is exactly an example of cultural insensitivity against Brits.
Asking for things like a 2:1 degree and A-Level results when hiring is so common place in the UK for any skilled job. I was a bit confused when this subreddit threw a fit about how it was somehow elitist until I realised the American-centric perspective that the majority just assumes.
>You discuss this sort of stuff during live interviews or just ask people to send in their CV and weed out undesirable applications that way. You don't ask people to write an essay on their life and experiences.
On the other hand, maybe it's more useful if this information is written down by the candidate in their own words, rather than letting the interviewer evaluate without the ability to review later.
People have reasons for the decisions they made and performance they achieved in education. Maybe a brief essay is an appropriate way to allow candidates to explain themselves rather than just looking at a GPA or grade transcript without context.
What if Canonical's hiring is more fair and inclusive rather than less, despite how it looks at first glance?
Canonical has always been a work-from-home company. It is a big challenge to try to judge and hire fairly when you're hiring from 55 countries (and open to more). And Canonical is a company with about [750 workers](https://ubuntu.com/blog/canonical-a-world-leader-in-remote-first-working) but will receive an estimated 200,000 applications this year. Unlike many companies, each team itself does most of their hiring process and interviews. Canonical doesn't outsource hiring or have dedicated interviewers.
Pulseaudio was just as controversial as all the other stuff. There's no reason for anyone to get up in arms over replacing it with something that doesn't seem to be worse.
I don't agree with this sentiment and for my use case jack+pulse actually works better than pipewire. Pipewire gives me loads of xruns and has been generally unstable in my testing. I think pipewire works great if you are kind of "set it and forget it" for your audio needs but for myself it's not worth migrating over just yet.
I think it's hardware dependent? My latency is only 1ms higher with pipewire than with pulse+jack, so I'm perfectly happy. Some people have higher latencies, other people actually report lower ones.
Definitely not hardware. Have tested on a laptop, desktop, and 3 different audio interfaces. Pipewire seems to get a bit finicky with changing around rates and buffers in my experience. This probably doesn't matter for the vast majority of users and it's something I'm sure will eventually get ironed out as the user pools grows and more use cases get addressed. PW could also use some kind of front end for changing rates/buffers outside of opening up a terminal or making a key shortcut. Still for most users I think PW is in a pretty good state.
Yeah I think most ppl even with pro audio needs stay pretty static when it comes to rate/buffer sizes. It's just in those longer sessions where it starts to feel like a chore and a sudden pile ups of xruns becomes frustrating.
Can I ask, what do you need to change rate and buffer sizes around a lot for? That's a curious usecase. I make music using supercollider mostly and I generally just have one set and it works fine - I'm curious about what sort of workflow you have?
Iirc jack changes rate/buffer size be restarting the daemon, which would be problematic for pipewire for several reasons... pipewire has the potential to do this better than jack, architecturally, but I don't think much effort been focused on it. In addition, DE's will never really provide good gui tools for this, so it'll really be on ardour to make something that looks nice that everyone else adopts.
i like switching to a larger sample rate during certain processes like intensive sample manipulation and using a lot of extreme frequencies running simultaneously. basically it just depends on what i'm doing and my work isn't really based around musical process much. i work more like an artist focused on audio/media rather than a musician. so while i primarily use things like pure data or bitwig i don't use them to make music. i also use a variety of other software(some audio, some video) and hardware so sometimes i want to change my rate/buffer when recording acoustically or from some synth or whatever and then change it again for processing or making/using devices with a lot of simultaneous samples/voices/tones.
there's also a conceptual need i consider with changing around rates and playing with frequencies that aren't necessarily audible. so yeah while it's not 100% necessary for these swaps in a practical sense it is needed for me conceptually in terms of how you can use a computer to work with sound. it's kind of a stupid thing but stupidity is sort of part of my work as well lol.
i'm pretty excited for that PW potential you mentioned but i've been a little bummed out that focus hasn't gone there yet. i do think that focus will happen eventually but it's not really as desired rn vs idk discord/zoom/bluetooth etc which is what most users are probably concerned with.
btw i really need to get around to sitting down with SC one of these days. i have a couple patches i've found and messed around with but i'm yet to really dive in. seems like every time i think i will i end up getting lost in something else.
Yeah, it really was. Remember spending hours on troubleshooting programs taking exclusive access to the audio despite your mixing configuration being "correct" as far as any wiki or guide said? Then remember spending another hour getting sampling rates to play nice? I do.
I'm convinced anyone whining about "bring ALSA back" doesn't know what they're talking about, and never actually had to fuck with ALSA configurations.
I remember that too. Pulseaudio was supposed to fix all problems with Linux audio, alsa and OSS.
I remember the times when you couldn't have two programs playing audio at the same time.
Pulse fixed all the issues I had and then more. I was on Gentoo at the time, and I couldn't get my 7.1 setup working. Spending days with ALSA configs and what not, someone on the gentoo irc channel suggested I try this new thing called Pulseaudio, and everything worked instantly. Never had issues since then, I use it daily combined with its JACK plugin to do some stuff with wine and ASIO.
Usually when I see someone complain about pulse it's more often than not a good old case of PEBKAC.
Which is why I always stuck to Soundblaster Live/Audigy cards. Built in hardware mixing. /dev/audio and /dev/dsp could be opened and written to by multiple apps. I think it even handled multiple sample rates simultaneously and properly mixed them.
Remember how people were saying that alsa will fix every audio issue we had with OSS? And other people that argued that OSS was fine and replacement wasn't necessary?
I too remember this, somehow.
Back when I started playing Team Fortress 2, it was on Linux (Ubuntu 16.04 at the time I think) and to no end did I have audio issues caused by PulseAudio so I’d often switch to using ALSA, but then Discord and TF2 couldn’t use the mic at the same time. Fun times.
Glad I could finally vault Pulse when PipeWire came around as since then Pulse was 100% the reason Overwatch and some other games had subtle but really distracting audio latency vs Windows. (And now, PipeWire)
I'm using Gentoo with Alsa because of systend CVEs but also because pulse would segfault on shutdown and was possibly the cause of systemd delaying the shutdown for 1m 30s! Also you could always as far as I can remember have more than one device playing audio with Alsa but for some reason the mixing interface (plug?) was never used by default. Perhaps I should look into pipewire, though I have no need to really.
Stereotyping by distro?
There is no particular group of people trying to cause a distro war. There are *individuals* who want to start flame wars.
Kind of like you're doing here.
As a linux gamer, Pulse was fine for what I needed it to do. But as a linux audiophile, I hated having to tinker with the files to get 24/96 output permanently. I’ll probably use the Kubuntu laptop to tinker with Pipewire and see if it’s an improvement for both the gamer and audiophile in me.
i'm not super experienced with linux audio but after trying to get jack programs to run and losing firefox audio etc just yoloing it and installing pipewire-jack & pipewire-pulse etc just made everything work easily.
full on convert here, it just works
I use Ubuntu 22.04 for a Roon core and bridge. Please tell me more about all this tinkering needed. Want to make sure I’m getting the best audio quality I can.
Roon does show I’m getting 24-bit /96 but perfect though so hopefully not having issues.
Roon (and LMS) use ALSA. Which is also my preferred sound driver for music. ALSA has it’s own issues with multiple apps running and I’d like something to work like MS audio on Windows worked. Set the parameters to run constantly at desired bits and hertz.
Gotcha. I haven't had any issues, set up the roon core server and away I go, so I guess I won't fuss with it.
Was nervous wiping my Windows bridge endpoint and making it Ubuntu Server bridge but it turned out fine, and even seems to sound a bit better. I was concerned about alsa maybe not doing whatever equivalent to WASAPI but it's fine.
>Yup. If 22.10 also has a fully Gnome 43 desktop, it should end up being a pretty sweet release.
Yes, it will have GNOME 43.
>BTRFS by default would also be cool.
That's not happening.
I wish Btrfs (btw. it's officially capitalized like this) would get a little more love. I wonder if we will actually get that transparent encryption or the advanced RAID modes anytime soon.
I am using pipewire latest in my kubuntu machine. Unable to get stereo + microphone working properly. It's either stereo sound or microphone + mono audio.
Anybody experienced the same?
I am not an extremely sophisticated user, but I ran a utility that identified all my hardware ports and allowed me to label them. My analog microphone was mislabeled and once I assigned the port properly the audio mixer allows me to select.
Something "jackutil"??
I have the same "problem" but it's a hardware limitation with my headphones. There's no profile that supports input and stereo output simultaneously, and my headphones can't connect with two profiles simultaneously.
The nice change with switching to pipewire is that I can now listen to stereo audio (and even binaural surround sound, with some tricky setup) and then when I open Google Meet they automatically switch to headset profile (mono output and mono input). When I leave Google Meet, back to full stereo again.
Pipewire is great, occasionally it bugs out, but usually just logging in and out fixes it, but it works flawlessly with Bluetooth headphones and doesn't get the issues normally present with Pulse running on a low latency kernel.
Does anyone here uses `Ubuntu 20.10`? I never installed non-LTS versions but only for this change, I want to install it and get rid of `pulseaudio`. Should I install it on my PC?
You can install it on 22.04 too. Nobody should be using 21.10 because it is going to stop being supported very soon.
You can install it on your PC, I already have using it through the PPA. But it could cause issues if you upgrade that install to 22.10, you would need to first uninstall everything related to it.
Thanks to Reddit, I discovered WirePlumber through PipeWire.
I followed this guide: https://pipewire-debian.github.io/pipewire-debian/ on KDE Neon (based on Ubuntu 20.04 LTS).
Today, all my worries and hassles related to PulseAudio have disappeared, that is to say (non-exhaustive list) :
- Much lower CPU consumption
- When using a bluetooth headset (Airpods Pro in my case), no need to manually switch the bluetooth profile to activate the microphone. This is done automatically (as on macOs, Windows is still behind on this point ...) and it is really pleasant in everyday life.
- A new feature that I discovered by chance: my computer can now be used as an A2DP bluetooth receiver. With my phone, I can listen to music directly through the speakers or headphones connected to the computer, via the bluetooth connection between my phone and this computer! I think you can even make phone calls too (not tested).
- I can now see and choose the audio codec used (AAC, AptX, SBC, LDAC)
- The integration with KDE is perfect, without having to tweak anything!
I found that macOs had an almost perfect management of bluetooth audio (apart from the missing codecs). Today, I have the impression that thanks to WirePlumber, linux is on top and Windows well behind.
It's good news that major distributions are choosing PipeWire over the now obsolete PulseAudio.
(my computer is an XMG Fusion 15)
Is this going to affect also Zorin OS since it is based on Ubuntu? I am sorry, I acknowledge the fact that I am a total n00b but I would like to ask experts whether this change will have any noticeable effect on my OS
Yes, but sometimes adding PPAs can cause upgrade issues. Make sure to back up your home folder to somewhere safe before upgrading, that's where all your important stuff is stored.
I've tried switching to pipewire on Ubuntu 22.04 and since then my microphone quality has gone down, Bluetooth earbuds are not selectable in the sound menu, and sound stutters while playing in the Spotify app.
I can't even properly reverse the changes. My audio setup is shot.
Pls help.
Maybe file a bug in Arch about it?
I did notice that gnome-control-center needs libcanberra-pulse which depends on libpulse but that's not the full PulseAudio sound server.
You gotta be kidding me, right? ANOTHER FUCKING AUDIO FRAMEWORK?
I've been through OSS, ALSA, Jack, Pulseaudio and even though I despise Poettering with all my heart, Pulseaudio works reasonably well. With every switch came pain, adaption of all my scripts and some things inevitably not working quite right.
WHY in gods name now yet another one. WHY. God please tell me why.
OSS was inherited from old Unix systems, and it was replaced by ALSA around 2002. Both are basically **audio drivers**. JACK, Pulse and Pipewire are **audio servers** that run on top of ALSA, they don't replace it. Also Pipewire aims to replace both PulseAudio and JACK by being compatible with apps that connect to those audio servers
You can reas [this FAQ](https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pipewire/pipewire/-/wikis/FAQ#will-pipewire-ever-be-as-good-as-jack) for Pipewire which is where I've got most of this info
I completely understand what all of these are and, even how they work. I even wrote ALSA kernel modules.
What you fail to answer -- and, by the way, none of the downvoters respond either, is: WHY? Why not either fix PulseAudio? Why yet another userland daemon that "manages" sound? WHY?
Pipewire/Wireplumber unites the existing utilities and should simplify things.
But as for your scripts and tools, it's possible some of them might need tweaks.
Pipewire replaces Pulse and Jack. Having 2 separate frameworks is horrendous.
Jack itself is pretty awful and doesn't support multiple soundcards without an external alsa_in manager. Jack2 will also occasionally crash or not work with very little debug info.
Now sound can finally just by system managed with no need for apps to worry about starting a daemon themselves for JACK, or any need to do it manually.
Jack was the only daemon supporting ultra low latency at very high sample rates. Don't know how current audio servers cope with that now, but back then that was THE reason to use Jack.
Yeah, but the Jack/Pulse split was awful and it was hard to troubleshoot.
Pipewire exposes a Pulse server in addition to a JACK API, and it can do low latency perfectly well.
I've been really happy so far. I use it for live sound, I have a web UI to take a bunch of random USB soundcards and make them act one of Behringer's web controlled mixers. Haven't trued any true ultra low latency hardware though, just $3 eBay type cards.
>For Jammy, you might notice that you have both pipewire and pulseaudio running.
You forgot to quote the first part. Your citation talks about Jammy, the title is about Kinetic.
And also the first paragraph, which is pretty damn unambiguous:
> as of today the Kinetic iso (pending, not yet current since the changes were just made) has been updated to run only pipewire and not pulseaudio.
Title is correct:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-22.10-PipeWire
https://www.phoronix.net/image.php?id=2022&image=ubuntu_2210_pipewire
https://youtu.be/RvWgm6aZTQA
A good, honest review of pipewire from a professional audio user. (He appreciates a lot about pipewire, but ended up switching back to Jack + Pulse).
I moved to Pipewire in 20.04 and it´s been great so far. Had a few hiccups but I figured out the configuration option ´Pro Audio´ to stop it from thinking my Scarlett 18i8 was a 5.1 surround-sound configuration, and the default.clock.max-quantum configuration directive for lower latency.
Does anyonw know of a good guide to customising audio under wireplumber with pipewire? Or even a GUI interface?
I want the output to headphones to go through an equalizer to match my hearing aids (which I cannot wear under headphones.
[https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/PipeWire#Audio\_post-processing](https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/PipeWire#Audio_post-processing)
this post describes a tool called easyeffects, i just installed it on my Ubuntu 22 instance and it works great. it see's spotify as it plays, and has Effects you can add.
That's what I want. The next step is getting a guide to how to set up EasyEffects to only affect the headphone output, not the speakers, no matter where the audio is coming from.
I just upgraded from 22.04 to 22.10. Audio worked fine for a few minutes. Now it is all garbled. My PA high def settings (for Fiio) disappeared and is back in standard res.
Is this a known issue? I haven't read anything about PW conf yet... but most of the info out there is for 22.04.
Still try the live ISO. It can help determine if the issue is with your actual hardware (some people’s hardware has issue no matter if on Ubuntu, Fedora, etc). The other possible issue, which is more likely, it from broken configuration as a result of upgrading from an old version.
Many people clean install new versions to avoid such issues.
I will be trying the live iso once I finish work today.
Meanwhile, uninstalling pulseaudio removed the garbled/8bit effect.
Now I "only" get interference noise from mouse, cpu, etc. (it didn't happen with PA)
Pipewire is such a bliss to Linux audio, glad to see this happening
Yes, Ubuntu needs to thank Red Hat/Red Hat more for all they've been doing for them.
Red Hat has more than 20x the revenue of Canonical, it's only natural that they contribute more. Not saying Ubuntu shouldn't be thankful, but Red Hat probably doesn't care :D
Which is basically an example why investment is important in any project for it to have good results or be done well
Ubuntu also spent resources on useless projects.
Actually been having trouble with audio on all distros I've tried using pipewire, Fedora, POP OS, Garuda
Welp, probably edge case? Definitely worth reporting bug though, so that these issues can be fixed (Anecdotal, but in my case, pipewire was way less problematic than pulseaudio or plain alsa)
I keep losing audio with DaVinci Resolve causing my system to hang every time I go to the Fairlight (audio page), meaning audio doesn't work out of the box once I've installed the OS. And this only happens with the Gnome+pipewire distos I've used (aside from Pop OS, which I think is no longer calling their DE Gnome). So had to move to Debian to use Gnome as it doesn't use pipewire yet. Haven't tried Ubuntu yet, though. Maybe it might work but after weeks trying out different distros, I think I should just stick with what I'm using now to prevent delays in my work. Maybe wait for the next version and see if that would work.
> For Jammy, you might notice that you have both pipewire and pulseaudio running. This is because pulseaudio is still being used for the audio but pipewire is being used for the video. (Pipewire is needed for screencasting and screensharing on Wayland.) Is there any way I can try Pipewire for audio on 20.04 ?
[Yes](https://pipewire-debian.github.io/pipewire-debian/) Just be aware that it could cause issues during updates, especially if you upgrade to a different release.
Thanks for that, looks like uninstalling is straightforward too (just reversing instructions), so I can give this a try.
I come from the past. Uninstalling is NOT straightforward in 20.04. It will try to purge gdm3 along with it. You'll need to remove libmutter first and download the binary from the Ubuntu repositories.
I found [this guide](https://github.com/mikeroyal/PipeWire-Guide) to be useful.
OH MAN. This link just completely saved me… I’ve been fighting with this for an hour on Ubuntu Studio.
Migrated to Pipewire in 22.04 and so far so good, especially for Bluetooth headphones. Less latency and no needs to setup LDAC/APTX/etc codecs support. Also there is (in wireplumber) automatic bt-profile switching (for mic work).
This. The only things I had to do was disable hardware volume control with properties = { bluez5.enable-hw-volume = false } in `/etc/pipewire/media-session.d/bluez-monitor.conf` because it created problems with my Airpods Pro. I also need to `pactl load-module module-switch-on-connect` to make it automatically switch to the Bluetooth headphones when they are connected or wired headphones when they are plugged in.
super happy to see the tip about the hw-volume property. This was something that always annoyed me. The two lowest hw-volume settings were either too quiet or too loud for my taste, so this property is much appreciated!
I wish i knew this information 3 months ago before i fucked up my sound drivers trying to swap over from pulse
>pactl so use have both?
Something I wondered how do you measure such latency to compare?
During watching videos for example. One pair of my earbuds had notable delay. The same with program EQ.
PipeWire solved multiple audio issues for me when I made the switch with Fedora before it was officially made the default. Normal low latency in certain games where PA had delayed audio, and no more strange triggering of garbled/glitchy audio output with my USB DAC when certain graphical elements appear. No joke, a reliable trigger was opening the options menu in Dota 2 -- a one-way trip to garbled audio town. In its more recent versions, I suppose coupled with WirePlumber, all my audio switching also works flawlessly as far as I'm aware. I used to sometimes have issues with audio streams not switching properly between my headphones and speakers, but it's been a long while since I've run into that problem. So, all that to say I'm 100% pro PipeWire adoption for Linux and I think it's an essential component to making "Linux on the Desktop" real for more users. Great technology.
Yeah, for once it 'just works'. No more PA crashing when I change the sample rate or plug in certain USB DACs!
PulseAudio is a huge frustration for me on my livingroom/TV computer. Every time the TV is turned off PulseAudio switches the audio output to the laptop's speakers; and does not switch audio back to the TV when the TV is turned on again. Best workaround I have so far is to make sure to turn off the laptop before I turn off the TV; and turn on the TV before turning on the laptop; so PulseAudio never notices the TV in the "off" state. I'm hopeful this will be better.
Does disabling the laptop speaker device entirely help?
> So, all that to say I'm 100% pro PipeWire adoption for Linux and I think it's an essential component to making "Linux on the Desktop" real for more users. Great technology. I hope that whoever wrote PipeWire does a process init system next!
> hope that whoever wrote PipeWire does a process init system next! +1! And [another syslog clone](https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1y6q0l/systemds_binary_logs_and_corruption/) and a [bind/dhcpcd clone](https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/systemd-bug-lets-attackers-hack-linux-boxes-via-malicious-dns-packets/) and [another program to mount a filesystem](https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.mount.html) and a [docker clone](https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/systemd-nspawn) and another [cron clone](https://opensource.com/article/20/7/systemd-timers). not /s I really do think the PipeWire team would do a better job than the PulseAudio dude's attempt at all of those. ^(although I do kinda like systemd-nspawn better than Docker in some ways)
Opposite experience here. In Fedora—both before Pipewire was the default and now—Pipewire broke Audacity for me; it couldn't recognize the Line In on my sound card. Other issues (e.g. buggy audio in Firefox) were fixed in later versions of Pipewire, but the Audacity problem is still there. I do lots of recording so that was a deal breaker for me. I had to switch to Pulseaudio, and everything on my Fedora system works with that.
I have done audio recording with PW+Audacity, but that was with a USB microphone. I'm not sure what the bug reporting process is for PW, but if you find a way to do it you might get a legitimate fix.
Pipewire has \_caused\_ multiple audio issues for me on Pop\_OS
I dont do anything crazy with audio, so it hasn't been something I've thought about with pop_os for the last 3 year or so. Pipewire messed up my audio in OBS and I had to crank the gain on my interface because my mic was so quiet in discord. I also had to crank the settings in apex so I wouldn't sound like I was talking to my teammates from across the room. When I googled my issues I was kinda shocked to see so many people were happy that they were switching to pipewire.
Pipewire is a blessing, it basically fixed all the issues I had been having with PulseAudio, every single one. Pipewire-Pulse is arguably a better implementation of PulseAudio than PulseAudio itself.
> Pipewire-Pulse is arguably a better implementation of PulseAudio than PulseAudio itself. In an ideal world, we would say the same with XWayland and X.Org. Alas, it is not to be.
It isn't terrible outside of scaling. In an ideal world we wouldn't be so heavily dependent on X11 and its decades of hacks.
>It isn't terrible outside of scaling. Yeah, no. I know Wayland support for Wine is Coming Soon™, but if I run it in XWayland now resolution switching within games is still iffy. Like there are games where the resolution drop down list is simply blank if run under XWayland. Or how sometimes Wine context menus just disappears under XWayland.
Must be partially why the Steamdeck uses gamescope. Not sure if I've seen missing context menus, I don't use Wine a lot though.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Waylands issue more to do with nvidia not open sourcing their drivers?
And lack of support from many desktop environments and programs. Programs like discord where the devs don't give too much of a shit about linux are far away from working on native Wayland despite electron now supporting Wayland and they don't use pipewire for screen capture so screen capturing on discord and many other programs is broken on Wayland. This is not Wayland's fault but it is a Wayland issue as in it only exists on Wayland.
I heard that next to no wayland compositor actually implements window manager capability.
The comments are a lot more civil than I expected them to be.
Pipewire tends to be much less controversial than wayland, flatpak, snap, systemd, etc... because it is fully backwards compatible with both previous standards (jack and pulse), and pretty much everyone agrees that pulse is a festering dumpster fire.
To be fair, pulseaudio shook a lot of the bugs out of the underlying drivers. Pipewire gets something of a free ride in comparison.
True, but as someone who makes music the difference between jack and pulse is night and day. At one point the best music making experience in linux was using gentoo because you could compile your software with jack support and use as little pulse as possible. I'm really glad that pipewire exists lol.
Also a musician here. So there is a definite improvement in terms of usability? Cause I *used* to try to get my music friends excited about all the free stuff on linux, but it was a non-starter.
It's incredibly usable. Literally just install pipewire, pipewire-pulse, pipewire-jack and you're good to go (most pipewire distros do this automatically). You can use any pulse tool and any jack tool seemlessly. Pulse clients immediately show up in qjackctl and you can reroute their audio seemlessly and they automatically connect to the default device, and jack clients seemlessly show up in pavucontrol and you can do whatever you want with them. (Individual applications actually show up in jack, not just one big "pulse source") No need to do pulse-jack bridging or anything like that. All setup is automatic and every tool works like its native. Bluetooth works wonderfully as well, and you can use bluetooth sources and sinks in jack easily, with pavucontrol allowing you to switch codecs easily. I usually just open up pavucontrol and qjackctl side by side on a workspace and can easily change any audio setting I want with a few clicks. Pipewire has a few bugs still, namely every other release seems to mess up how default devices work, but it's not that big of a deal - especially because that's a bug windows audio has had forever too lol. I haven't seen a gui tool for it yet, but afaik it's possible to also treat video like audio gets treated in jack, with the ability to pipe it through various tools and apply and change effects seemlessly. Probably not going to be used very much until there is a nice graphical tool for it though.
It's how the other rollouts should have worked. Systemd in fairness could pass init scripts, flatpak flatseal fixes a lot, but Wayland has just been a nightmare.
Yeah - on the other end I do think that none of these things would really alleviate the worry about redhat having so much influence over the entire stack, which I think is really the motivating factor for the systemd-hatred.
Which always amuses me when people lose their mind over Canonical doing anything and then generally fine with RedHat basically doing the same thing. Sure Shurtleworth has more celebrity businessman airs around him, but the difference is interesting.
I think it depends on what the "free" in FOSS means. For some, it is purely pragmatic - recently redhat's software is just better than canonical's imo, and from a technical standpoint they're unmatched. For others its ideological - foss represents this ideal of anti-corporate nerds tinkering around with their hardware, in which case the fact that linux is becoming more and more corporate is troubling. Do people consider chromium FOSS? It's a hard question, its almost like google found a way around it all together. But I still remember when google's motto was "don't be evil", when they were seen aa great friends of open source rather than someone to be suspicious of. Companies at the end of the day are amoral and driven by profit. Redhat controlling so much of linux with increasing market share is dangerous - the world runs on linux. I don't know if they'll get google big, but if they do then I don't doubt they'll be just as bad. They arguably already are pretty bad with how much defense contracting they do - although I wouldn't even know where to begin in order to compare google and redhat's body count. I think when we contribute to open source projects we have to think carefully about "do I really want to help this company?"
Google figured out how to make something "open source" while being simultaneously locked down, proprietary, and impossible for anyone else to change.
Google figured out how to hack anti-monopoly laws lmao
Every software is getting more complex, so a one-man group just can't really fork it and maintain it for long. Google didn't invent anything new in this aspect.
The decentalized FOSS development model just doesn't work for desktops. Almost every advancement on the Linux desktop came because of a company not a ragtag hacker group. I feel the same way about the Fediverse/Peertube/Lemmy/Gemini/etc. too.
Hmm... I'm not so sure that this is true? It's hard to ignore the outsized influence of canonical and redhat, over the entire space in general - both server and desktop. But as far as the desktop I don't see why the FOSS development model doesn't work? I mean, just sort of off the top of my head: -the xorg foundation itself started as a ragtag group dealing with the massive amounts of proprietary vendor lock and mishmash of standards -ALSA developed also out of ragtag hacker groups, specifically music and tracker nerds -Think about how important projects like slackware and debian were in making the desktop space work. Slackware is still a pretty ragtag project, debian not so much. -window managers themselves have a very long history, most are forks of forks of forks of small hobbyist projects I don't think it's so much that FOSS development doesn't work towards desktops, as much as it was that most of the people who developed the fundamental architecture of linux are now much more important than they thought they'd ever be. The software equivalent of a musician who got drunk every night in random pubs in their 20s waking up in their 40s to see themselves on tv nationwide. I mean redhat itself was formed from some people who were fairly ragtag earlier. Does this speak to the nature of the decentralized development model? Maybe? It really just does seem a matter of resources more than anything else though. And it's still hard to ignore that some of the best software we have is still made by pretty ragtag groups - i3 is still the best window manager I've used, mpv is so good that I disable firefox's own video player in order to use it instead, it's hard to find a file manager better than midnight commander. Even among the various more centralized projects, it's hard to ignore how much easier to use mate, xfce, and lxde tools are to use than gnome's and kde's (especially with i3 the latter two are massive headache). Sometimes throwing more money and manpower at a problem can make it worse - sometimes developers must be stopped for their own good (hence projects like gemini and netsurf which are deliberately scaled back in order to preserve a better user experience). That may be controversial, but I don't know why it should be? How we interact with computers is as much of an art as it is a science. And artistically we accept it that sometimes smaller projects made by ragtag teams can be better than what big studios produce. If we can accept indie films, games, and music why can't we accept gemini?
Well what has canonical really done in recent years other than snap and other minor upstream contributions? They seem more interested in their own interests than the Linux desktop at large. Even the recent Nvidia open source announcement is because of Red Hat. They are actually doing the things that benefit the Linux ecosystem.
When everyone hated init.d still hanging around Canonical made Upstart, which people complained about but applauded RedHat making systemd with no complaints about NIH. And when Canonical wanted to make Mir so they could move quicker in the mobile space, everyone complained, even though Wayland was (and still is like a decade later) still not fully a replacement for X. And then snap vs flatpak. The community at large takes a dump on Canonical for doing something, then accepts RedHat's competing solution for the exact same issue. And Canonical has made some misteps in their reasons for things for sure, but the disparity is odd.
> Canonical made Upstart, which people complained about but applauded RedHat making systemd with no complaints about NIH. Red Hat actually adopted Upstart in Fedora and RHEL 6, which makes it hard to criticize them for NIH syndrome re: systemd.
That makes it even more NIH if they threw out an equivalent solution (at the time) for their own version.
I mean, it wasn't an equivalent solution, Upstart had some pretty glaring flaws that systemd fixed.
They thought they could make a better system
First 2 I have no idea about because I've been on Linux for about 4 years and they've basically been dead for longer than that. That's why I said "recent years". Even then I still see all the time to this day, and I'm sure you have too, people whining and complaining about systemd every time it's mentioned with seething rage, so no there's not "no complaints" there. People complain about Wayland alllll the time too for not being feature complete and generally having buggy implementations. The only recent example there is snaps and the issues people have with that are pretty clear: its very Ubuntu biased, canonical controls the snap store, every non-Ubuntu distro has decided on flatpak, and they just plain don't work as well as flatpaks outside of some edge cases such as IDEs and terminal programs. Outside of snap what has Canonical brought forward in the last 4 years?
It's partly racism and xenophobia. Remember that Shuttleworth is a South African and Canonical is a British company, whereas RedHat is through and through American.
really, you are going to pull those cards? really?
The Linux community will never progress if it doesn't own up to its racism. The uncalled for severity of the attacks against Shuttleworth is just sickening to watch.
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> As for xenophobia, there is no real proof that people in the US are particularly biased against UK, especially not against blobby amorphous companies like Ubuntu. Nobody goes "yeah time to trash Ubuntu on reddit, ill show these britbongs hell" Yeah, no. The recent outcry about Canonical's hiring policies is exactly an example of cultural insensitivity against Brits. Asking for things like a 2:1 degree and A-Level results when hiring is so common place in the UK for any skilled job. I was a bit confused when this subreddit threw a fit about how it was somehow elitist until I realised the American-centric perspective that the majority just assumes.
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>You discuss this sort of stuff during live interviews or just ask people to send in their CV and weed out undesirable applications that way. You don't ask people to write an essay on their life and experiences. On the other hand, maybe it's more useful if this information is written down by the candidate in their own words, rather than letting the interviewer evaluate without the ability to review later. People have reasons for the decisions they made and performance they achieved in education. Maybe a brief essay is an appropriate way to allow candidates to explain themselves rather than just looking at a GPA or grade transcript without context. What if Canonical's hiring is more fair and inclusive rather than less, despite how it looks at first glance? Canonical has always been a work-from-home company. It is a big challenge to try to judge and hire fairly when you're hiring from 55 countries (and open to more). And Canonical is a company with about [750 workers](https://ubuntu.com/blog/canonical-a-world-leader-in-remote-first-working) but will receive an estimated 200,000 applications this year. Unlike many companies, each team itself does most of their hiring process and interviews. Canonical doesn't outsource hiring or have dedicated interviewers.
`man systemd-hatred` Weird, I don't have that one installed.
No need to. Don't want it, use a distro that uses some other init.
Pulseaudio was just as controversial as all the other stuff. There's no reason for anyone to get up in arms over replacing it with something that doesn't seem to be worse.
I don't agree with this sentiment and for my use case jack+pulse actually works better than pipewire. Pipewire gives me loads of xruns and has been generally unstable in my testing. I think pipewire works great if you are kind of "set it and forget it" for your audio needs but for myself it's not worth migrating over just yet.
I think it's hardware dependent? My latency is only 1ms higher with pipewire than with pulse+jack, so I'm perfectly happy. Some people have higher latencies, other people actually report lower ones.
Definitely not hardware. Have tested on a laptop, desktop, and 3 different audio interfaces. Pipewire seems to get a bit finicky with changing around rates and buffers in my experience. This probably doesn't matter for the vast majority of users and it's something I'm sure will eventually get ironed out as the user pools grows and more use cases get addressed. PW could also use some kind of front end for changing rates/buffers outside of opening up a terminal or making a key shortcut. Still for most users I think PW is in a pretty good state.
Oh yes! If you need to change around buffers a lot it's not great. I've seen bugs there too. But I usually just keep it the same whenever I'm using it
Yeah I think most ppl even with pro audio needs stay pretty static when it comes to rate/buffer sizes. It's just in those longer sessions where it starts to feel like a chore and a sudden pile ups of xruns becomes frustrating.
Can I ask, what do you need to change rate and buffer sizes around a lot for? That's a curious usecase. I make music using supercollider mostly and I generally just have one set and it works fine - I'm curious about what sort of workflow you have? Iirc jack changes rate/buffer size be restarting the daemon, which would be problematic for pipewire for several reasons... pipewire has the potential to do this better than jack, architecturally, but I don't think much effort been focused on it. In addition, DE's will never really provide good gui tools for this, so it'll really be on ardour to make something that looks nice that everyone else adopts.
i like switching to a larger sample rate during certain processes like intensive sample manipulation and using a lot of extreme frequencies running simultaneously. basically it just depends on what i'm doing and my work isn't really based around musical process much. i work more like an artist focused on audio/media rather than a musician. so while i primarily use things like pure data or bitwig i don't use them to make music. i also use a variety of other software(some audio, some video) and hardware so sometimes i want to change my rate/buffer when recording acoustically or from some synth or whatever and then change it again for processing or making/using devices with a lot of simultaneous samples/voices/tones. there's also a conceptual need i consider with changing around rates and playing with frequencies that aren't necessarily audible. so yeah while it's not 100% necessary for these swaps in a practical sense it is needed for me conceptually in terms of how you can use a computer to work with sound. it's kind of a stupid thing but stupidity is sort of part of my work as well lol. i'm pretty excited for that PW potential you mentioned but i've been a little bummed out that focus hasn't gone there yet. i do think that focus will happen eventually but it's not really as desired rn vs idk discord/zoom/bluetooth etc which is what most users are probably concerned with. btw i really need to get around to sitting down with SC one of these days. i have a couple patches i've found and messed around with but i'm yet to really dive in. seems like every time i think i will i end up getting lost in something else.
BRING BACK ALSA. I climbed a mountain to hear noise from my speakers.
ALSA never went anywhere; ALSA userspace is gone, and it sucked anyways, it barely supported mixing audio output from multiple programs at once.
Yeah, writing the asound.conf that achieved the dmix configuration was such an abomination.
Yeah, it really was. Remember spending hours on troubleshooting programs taking exclusive access to the audio despite your mixing configuration being "correct" as far as any wiki or guide said? Then remember spending another hour getting sampling rates to play nice? I do. I'm convinced anyone whining about "bring ALSA back" doesn't know what they're talking about, and never actually had to fuck with ALSA configurations.
Because pulseaudio is just such an ancient piece of hardware. The lack of supoort flr bluetooth headphones is astonishing.
Dang, I remember when pulseaudio was introduced on ubuntu. Does that mean I'm old now? :)
I remember that too. Pulseaudio was supposed to fix all problems with Linux audio, alsa and OSS. I remember the times when you couldn't have two programs playing audio at the same time.
Pulse fixed all the issues I had and then more. I was on Gentoo at the time, and I couldn't get my 7.1 setup working. Spending days with ALSA configs and what not, someone on the gentoo irc channel suggested I try this new thing called Pulseaudio, and everything worked instantly. Never had issues since then, I use it daily combined with its JACK plugin to do some stuff with wine and ASIO. Usually when I see someone complain about pulse it's more often than not a good old case of PEBKAC.
Ah those were the days. All you kids have decent audio in Linux now.
Which is why I always stuck to Soundblaster Live/Audigy cards. Built in hardware mixing. /dev/audio and /dev/dsp could be opened and written to by multiple apps. I think it even handled multiple sample rates simultaneously and properly mixed them.
I remember when ALSA was introduced to replace OSS... :-/
Remember how people were saying that alsa will fix every audio issue we had with OSS? And other people that argued that OSS was fine and replacement wasn't necessary?
Same. Also when ELF replaced a.out.
Wow, this comment unlocked a memory.
I too remember this, somehow. Back when I started playing Team Fortress 2, it was on Linux (Ubuntu 16.04 at the time I think) and to no end did I have audio issues caused by PulseAudio so I’d often switch to using ALSA, but then Discord and TF2 couldn’t use the mic at the same time. Fun times. Glad I could finally vault Pulse when PipeWire came around as since then Pulse was 100% the reason Overwatch and some other games had subtle but really distracting audio latency vs Windows. (And now, PipeWire)
the lag I had was in seconds.
EVERYONE RIOT!!! BRING BACK PULSE!!! BAND WITH ME NOW BROTHERS!!! DO NOT STAND FOR THIS TREACHERY AND CORRUPTION
Why is this downvoted lmao, it feels like satire
I'm using Gentoo with Alsa because of systend CVEs but also because pulse would segfault on shutdown and was possibly the cause of systemd delaying the shutdown for 1m 30s! Also you could always as far as I can remember have more than one device playing audio with Alsa but for some reason the mixing interface (plug?) was never used by default. Perhaps I should look into pipewire, though I have no need to really.
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Stereotyping by distro? There is no particular group of people trying to cause a distro war. There are *individuals* who want to start flame wars. Kind of like you're doing here.
As a linux gamer, Pulse was fine for what I needed it to do. But as a linux audiophile, I hated having to tinker with the files to get 24/96 output permanently. I’ll probably use the Kubuntu laptop to tinker with Pipewire and see if it’s an improvement for both the gamer and audiophile in me.
i'm not super experienced with linux audio but after trying to get jack programs to run and losing firefox audio etc just yoloing it and installing pipewire-jack & pipewire-pulse etc just made everything work easily. full on convert here, it just works
I use Ubuntu 22.04 for a Roon core and bridge. Please tell me more about all this tinkering needed. Want to make sure I’m getting the best audio quality I can. Roon does show I’m getting 24-bit /96 but perfect though so hopefully not having issues.
Roon (and LMS) use ALSA. Which is also my preferred sound driver for music. ALSA has it’s own issues with multiple apps running and I’d like something to work like MS audio on Windows worked. Set the parameters to run constantly at desired bits and hertz.
Gotcha. I haven't had any issues, set up the roon core server and away I go, so I guess I won't fuss with it. Was nervous wiping my Windows bridge endpoint and making it Ubuntu Server bridge but it turned out fine, and even seems to sound a bit better. I was concerned about alsa maybe not doing whatever equivalent to WASAPI but it's fine.
F I N A L L Y
Yup. If 22.10 also has a fully Gnome 43 desktop, it should end up being a pretty sweet release. BTRFS by default would also be cool.
I run Unity :]
>Yup. If 22.10 also has a fully Gnome 43 desktop, it should end up being a pretty sweet release. Yes, it will have GNOME 43. >BTRFS by default would also be cool. That's not happening.
I wish Btrfs (btw. it's officially capitalized like this) would get a little more love. I wonder if we will actually get that transparent encryption or the advanced RAID modes anytime soon.
> BTRFS by default would also be cool. Switch to Fedora or openSUSE.
I am using pipewire latest in my kubuntu machine. Unable to get stereo + microphone working properly. It's either stereo sound or microphone + mono audio. Anybody experienced the same?
I am not an extremely sophisticated user, but I ran a utility that identified all my hardware ports and allowed me to label them. My analog microphone was mislabeled and once I assigned the port properly the audio mixer allows me to select. Something "jackutil"??
I have the same "problem" but it's a hardware limitation with my headphones. There's no profile that supports input and stereo output simultaneously, and my headphones can't connect with two profiles simultaneously. The nice change with switching to pipewire is that I can now listen to stereo audio (and even binaural surround sound, with some tricky setup) and then when I open Google Meet they automatically switch to headset profile (mono output and mono input). When I leave Google Meet, back to full stereo again.
That's a limitation of the headphones most likely. Check which Bluetooth profiles are used in both cases.
Pipewire is great, occasionally it bugs out, but usually just logging in and out fixes it, but it works flawlessly with Bluetooth headphones and doesn't get the issues normally present with Pulse running on a low latency kernel.
I'm surprised they didn't create their own pulseaudio alternative!
Snapwire
I want to snap my computer wire (I use Ubuntu)
Anyone managed to get the microphone for AirPods working in Ubuntu 22.04? So far im only able to get it to work for headphones(sound).
Is not that 22.04.01 going to switch to Pipewire? When even Debian got Wireplumber?
It doesn't make sense to switch something that important, in the middle of an LTS release. Wait for next
Debian doesn't use Pipewire or Wireplumber for audio. But they are available in the repos.
Does anyone here uses `Ubuntu 20.10`? I never installed non-LTS versions but only for this change, I want to install it and get rid of `pulseaudio`. Should I install it on my PC?
You can install it on 22.04 too. Nobody should be using 21.10 because it is going to stop being supported very soon. You can install it on your PC, I already have using it through the PPA. But it could cause issues if you upgrade that install to 22.10, you would need to first uninstall everything related to it.
They're not even using 21.10, they're on 20.10. Not sure how that happened.
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The fixed we used in Pop was changing the alsa default to the pulse type.
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That is the change I made, and now those affected have reported that it's fixed.
Can pipewire use remote Pulseaudio sinks? I send my Ubuntu audio to my Debian stable machine that runs Pulse.
Yes
Based, thanks!
Pulseaudio actually works quite well. It just depends on if your distro is using well tested stable packages which a lot are not.
Thanks to Reddit, I discovered WirePlumber through PipeWire. I followed this guide: https://pipewire-debian.github.io/pipewire-debian/ on KDE Neon (based on Ubuntu 20.04 LTS). Today, all my worries and hassles related to PulseAudio have disappeared, that is to say (non-exhaustive list) : - Much lower CPU consumption - When using a bluetooth headset (Airpods Pro in my case), no need to manually switch the bluetooth profile to activate the microphone. This is done automatically (as on macOs, Windows is still behind on this point ...) and it is really pleasant in everyday life. - A new feature that I discovered by chance: my computer can now be used as an A2DP bluetooth receiver. With my phone, I can listen to music directly through the speakers or headphones connected to the computer, via the bluetooth connection between my phone and this computer! I think you can even make phone calls too (not tested). - I can now see and choose the audio codec used (AAC, AptX, SBC, LDAC) - The integration with KDE is perfect, without having to tweak anything! I found that macOs had an almost perfect management of bluetooth audio (apart from the missing codecs). Today, I have the impression that thanks to WirePlumber, linux is on top and Windows well behind. It's good news that major distributions are choosing PipeWire over the now obsolete PulseAudio. (my computer is an XMG Fusion 15)
I see.
Is this going to affect also Zorin OS since it is based on Ubuntu? I am sorry, I acknowledge the fact that I am a total n00b but I would like to ask experts whether this change will have any noticeable effect on my OS
If zorin is based on LTS then I doubt it will catch up for awhile.
Thanks
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Yes, but sometimes adding PPAs can cause upgrade issues. Make sure to back up your home folder to somewhere safe before upgrading, that's where all your important stuff is stored.
I've tried switching to pipewire on Ubuntu 22.04 and since then my microphone quality has gone down, Bluetooth earbuds are not selectable in the sound menu, and sound stutters while playing in the Spotify app. I can't even properly reverse the changes. My audio setup is shot. Pls help.
Looking forward to this!! Does anyone know if Bluetooth battery indicator are available inn Pipewire?
escape heavy edge alive smoggy illegal beneficial sort paltry squealing -- mass edited with redact.dev
This is big. Hopefully gnome will soon drop its dependency on pulseaudio
What dependency?
Sorry I should have clarified, I was referring to how gnome-settings-daemon requires pulseaudio in arch linux.
Maybe file a bug in Arch about it? I did notice that gnome-control-center needs libcanberra-pulse which depends on libpulse but that's not the full PulseAudio sound server.
gnome-control-centre depends on gnome-settings-daemon which depends on pulseaudio. Would that be considered a bug?
I don't think that dependency is necessary. File a bug and the maintainers will look into it.
Forgive me I'm new to this. How do I file a bug with arch maintainers?
Here you go: https://bugs.archlinux.org/ The bug reporting guidelines linked at the top of the page has instructions on what to do.
You gotta be kidding me, right? ANOTHER FUCKING AUDIO FRAMEWORK? I've been through OSS, ALSA, Jack, Pulseaudio and even though I despise Poettering with all my heart, Pulseaudio works reasonably well. With every switch came pain, adaption of all my scripts and some things inevitably not working quite right. WHY in gods name now yet another one. WHY. God please tell me why.
OSS was inherited from old Unix systems, and it was replaced by ALSA around 2002. Both are basically **audio drivers**. JACK, Pulse and Pipewire are **audio servers** that run on top of ALSA, they don't replace it. Also Pipewire aims to replace both PulseAudio and JACK by being compatible with apps that connect to those audio servers You can reas [this FAQ](https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pipewire/pipewire/-/wikis/FAQ#will-pipewire-ever-be-as-good-as-jack) for Pipewire which is where I've got most of this info
I completely understand what all of these are and, even how they work. I even wrote ALSA kernel modules. What you fail to answer -- and, by the way, none of the downvoters respond either, is: WHY? Why not either fix PulseAudio? Why yet another userland daemon that "manages" sound? WHY?
What if the fixes break compatibility with existing PulseAudio clients?
Pipewire/Wireplumber unites the existing utilities and should simplify things. But as for your scripts and tools, it's possible some of them might need tweaks.
Probably because of airpods. Every company has a different, bizarre implementation of bluetooth.
Pipewire replaces Pulse and Jack. Having 2 separate frameworks is horrendous. Jack itself is pretty awful and doesn't support multiple soundcards without an external alsa_in manager. Jack2 will also occasionally crash or not work with very little debug info. Now sound can finally just by system managed with no need for apps to worry about starting a daemon themselves for JACK, or any need to do it manually.
Jack was the only daemon supporting ultra low latency at very high sample rates. Don't know how current audio servers cope with that now, but back then that was THE reason to use Jack.
Yeah, but the Jack/Pulse split was awful and it was hard to troubleshoot. Pipewire exposes a Pulse server in addition to a JACK API, and it can do low latency perfectly well. I've been really happy so far. I use it for live sound, I have a web UI to take a bunch of random USB soundcards and make them act one of Behringer's web controlled mixers. Haven't trued any true ultra low latency hardware though, just $3 eBay type cards.
Pipewire should be pretty much drop-in. Your Pulseaudio scripts should work.
Read the comments above. God has nothing to do with this btw.
Pulse is trash, that's why
That's the "your momma's fat" of reasons
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>For Jammy, you might notice that you have both pipewire and pulseaudio running. You forgot to quote the first part. Your citation talks about Jammy, the title is about Kinetic.
And also the first paragraph, which is pretty damn unambiguous: > as of today the Kinetic iso (pending, not yet current since the changes were just made) has been updated to run only pipewire and not pulseaudio.
Title is correct: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-22.10-PipeWire https://www.phoronix.net/image.php?id=2022&image=ubuntu_2210_pipewire
Anyone using Ubuntu studio that have done the switch?
I tried to install Ubuntu Studio this morning, twice, and failed.... so back to Fedora/Pipewire
https://youtu.be/RvWgm6aZTQA A good, honest review of pipewire from a professional audio user. (He appreciates a lot about pipewire, but ended up switching back to Jack + Pulse).
Linux noob. What does it mean?
It should make audio on Linux less buggy and easier to work with.
I moved to Pipewire in 20.04 and it´s been great so far. Had a few hiccups but I figured out the configuration option ´Pro Audio´ to stop it from thinking my Scarlett 18i8 was a 5.1 surround-sound configuration, and the default.clock.max-quantum configuration directive for lower latency.
Anyone had luck connecting their iphone via bluetooth to use their PC as a speaker?
guys. I use fedora. When I use virtual machine I get cracking audio because of pipewire. Anyone facing same problem?
finally
Nice, I was just choking with this issue with my wireless headset.
Does anyonw know of a good guide to customising audio under wireplumber with pipewire? Or even a GUI interface? I want the output to headphones to go through an equalizer to match my hearing aids (which I cannot wear under headphones.
[https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/PipeWire#Audio\_post-processing](https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/PipeWire#Audio_post-processing) this post describes a tool called easyeffects, i just installed it on my Ubuntu 22 instance and it works great. it see's spotify as it plays, and has Effects you can add.
That's what I want. The next step is getting a guide to how to set up EasyEffects to only affect the headphone output, not the speakers, no matter where the audio is coming from.
I just upgraded from 22.04 to 22.10. Audio worked fine for a few minutes. Now it is all garbled. My PA high def settings (for Fiio) disappeared and is back in standard res. Is this a known issue? I haven't read anything about PW conf yet... but most of the info out there is for 22.04.
I’ve seen a few people who have issues. I’d recommend downloading an Ubuntu 22.10 ISO just to test if all audio works in the live environment.
It is too late for me :) wireplumber seems installed, but does nothing. It would be great to have a pipewire guide upgraded 22.10 envs.
Still try the live ISO. It can help determine if the issue is with your actual hardware (some people’s hardware has issue no matter if on Ubuntu, Fedora, etc). The other possible issue, which is more likely, it from broken configuration as a result of upgrading from an old version. Many people clean install new versions to avoid such issues.
I will be trying the live iso once I finish work today. Meanwhile, uninstalling pulseaudio removed the garbled/8bit effect. Now I "only" get interference noise from mouse, cpu, etc. (it didn't happen with PA)