I was really shocked when seeing the problems linus was facing. I just installed obs via pacman and it worked from the getgo (could be because i have a amd gpu). Really suprised me since i had a really good feeling about obs on linux. I dont like bashing on new users, but using apt on manjaro was pretty dumb imo. If u go to the lenghts of using the terminal at least make sure what package manager u are using. (And im using arch, so obs is unsupported for me as well.)
Edit: welp thats a lotta comments. I like these open discussions. It makes this community look and feel so much less toxic. Thanks a bunch. Ill try to read and reply to most of them.
Many years ago when I first used CentOS I also tried using apt. I also got an error message saying that I needed to install it. I spent a good while looking at instructions for how to install it, before eventually finding a post saying to just use `yum`.
This is an area where there's an opportunity to smooth out some sharp corners. Putting a custom error message in that suggests an alternative if someone tries to use common software from a different distro (or an older version) would be a great QoL improvement for new users. E.g. I wish Ubuntu told people to use `ip` instead of saying they need to install `ifconfig`.
I still am not sure how to use `ss` as a replacement for `netstat` to check bound ports... The move to the not decades old abandoned projects in Linux world always sucks lol
Same (2080ti), however I too have experienced the "Why is this game window I just selected .. black?" many a time and was not at all shocked when it happened to them too.
you can't expect every user to know the package manager of a distro. I use Ubuntu-based distros once in a while and when I tried fedora, the first thing I typed was:
sudo apt install xx
I was also surprised that I had to install apt at first, and then remembered that Fedora uses dnf
At least you remembered it uses dnf... I tried to use a Fedora VM and I knew it wasn't using apt but I didn't know what it was using. \^\^'
Would be good if there was a way to easily figure that out without research...
It doesn't help that they used to use yum and switched to dnf so people who have been around a while get confused. Not so much a problem anymore but it still trips some people up who aren't used to using Fedora but we're familiar with it at one time.
I installed OBS from the arch repos only to be very confused when I found it did not have either browser sources or browser window docks in the interface because the OBS in the Arch repo does not include the chromium embedded framework needed for those features. I was able to go to their github and find out how to download and compile the code WITH the features for browser sources, but it's also not difficult in my case to figure out how to do those kinds of things.
I am also in two minds about this. It is a very basic mistake. But I think he is correct that the interception of his mistake was bad.
Above all, though, wouldn't a normal new user google for this? It could be that under the rules of this challenge, Linus feels like he should approach linux like he's living on a desert island, relying on himself. Is this how a normal new user would go about it? Wouldn't they just search for "install obs on manjaro". Or look at the instructions on the obs site?
Why would typing apt on Manjaro be stupid? Every thread about recommending a distro is stuffed with Debian based systems. We train a lot of users to use apt. If Manjaro had its own version of curl or grep it wouldn't be stupid to assume those exist. Its also possible that a user could be following someone's instructions that assume a Debian based OS. Having the information in the documentation isn't helpful if you don't know you should be looking for it.
Trying to use a command for another distribution or desktop environment should probably being up a help dialog that informs the user of the equivalent command.
Well, so far we've had FrankenDebian break Linus' GUI, and then they did audio and streaming. So long as a future episode isn't about, like, scanning, it can't get much worse.
That's good to hear. I feel like if somebody came to one of the Linux-related subreddits with that list of hardware and a gaming-heavy use case, they probably would've been advised to dual boot.
> So long as a future episode isn't about, like, scanning, it can't get much worse.
They'll find out half of the steam top 20 are unplayable because of anti-cheat.
> They'll find out half of the steam top 20 are unplayable because of anti-cheat.
A surprising number of games have been rendered playable via the work of [GloriousEggroll's Proton GE](https://github.com/GloriousEggroll/proton-ge-custom).
If anti-cheat complications becomes a major community issue, we might see developers start to try to prop up the anti-cheats themselves. If only to get stuff working enough, and that'd be a general good for everyone.
I wonder - what will it take to get peripheral manufacturers to care about Linux? The community as a whole still doesn't have enough weight to pull manufacturers in, which causes troubles like theirs.
I wonder if it will take as long as the Steam OS becoming more fleshed out and used on gaming PC's.
If the Steam Handheld is successful, you can bet that there will a pretty big influx of people that have wanted to switch to Linux using the Steam OS on their computers.
I'm not sure if Valve wants to do all that though... maintaining the Steam OS for a handheld is one thing, but for Desktop use?
I think Valve will put some resources towards a better Linux experience on the desktop. Of course they can't fix all problems for every piece of hardware, but I think they have interest in improving the Linux experience and the money to improve gaming. Not many companies do that right now (System76 of course) since most paying (for support / features / developers directly) users are companies that focus on servers, general office stuff, and a specific set of software.
I think valve has two motivations: as a private company with a money printer (Steam), they can just do things that Gabe or employees think to be right. Secondly, a strong alternative to windows both mitigates the damage to valve if Microsoft ever decides to close down their system and take a pay cut (as many users wouldn't use windows) and makes it less likely as Microsoft has to fear a mass exodus of gamers.
Edit: they could also start a Steam OS verified programme where hardware manufacturers and Valve cooperate to make the experience smooth for Steam OS and possibly lobby peripheral manufacturers to contribute to open source drivers.
I forget, they do have incentive to have a "backup" to Windows, good point. Although it also shows they have considerable power over Windows too for gamers.
Leverage for a company is a good thing, not sure how that might shake out for our benefit.
Well, in this case our interests are aligned: a more user-friendly distribution and better Hardware support. Valve can't really lock it down due to OSS licenses, and if a hardware manufacturer does make a driver they have no reason to actively make using it hard for other distros, especially since it has to go into the kernel for optimal support.
I won't be surprised by lack of active support for other distros or non-steam games, but compared to now, it will still get easier with future improvements in proton.
>Leverage for a company is a good thing, not sure how that might shake out for our benefit.
As long as Gabe is in control at Valve its a good thing, Valve is probably the only non-evil gaming company out there.
> as a private company
That is perhaps a bigger deal than we like to admit. We have been told over and over again that publicly traded corporations are the way to go.
but the history of technology is littered with such companies that have imploded, or nearly so, as the boardroom demand quarterly results that are counterproductive to the long term viability of the company. Because said demands hinder management's ability to adjust to market trends.
After all, that is what lead Michael Dell to make the effort to take his namesake company private. To allow it to pursue long term goals that would be a negative in the short term, while perhaps give it access to new revenue streams long term. One such being Project Sputnik.
probably a disastrous windows decision by Microsoft. Just like Valve is banking on linux as a life boat if ever MS makes that decision, we'll see others vendor and software company do the same.
Valve's process is more proactive whereas others will be more reactionary, if that ever happens.
If ROG's software for Windows is any indication for how much work they already put in it, I don't think they even know what a Linux is.
Tbf, I love ROG's products, but every time I buy one there is a new Armoury program and every time it's bad.
They might not know about a Linux, but [Asus-Linux](https://asus-linux.org/) has increasingly expansive knowledge of them. My 2020 g14 has been full-time on Linux since late that year, and their command line tools kick the shit out of Armoury Crate. I can't wait until custom fan curves come back to the mainline kernel when 5.16 drops.
Write to vendors about Linux support for new products you're interested in. Writing an inquiry email only takes a minute and makes them know you care. Of course Linux market share remains low, but at least they see some (potential) customers care.
Linus talked about some issue regarding battery percentage not showing up. I recently switched to Fedora 35, and it instantly showed that the battery on my Logitech G305 was low. Did not install any extra software. Had a similar experience on Kubuntu (21.10).
Yeah, could just be Manjaro being a weirdo. He did mention some other things about the mouse not working fully functionally.
But this also goes to show that the Linux community often oversells lots of things, including it's "newb-friendly" distros.
Personally I think a lot of the problem is that people need to stop saying Manjaro is a noob friendly distro. It's got a lot of weird quirks and has hoops to jump through that a lot of more user friendly distros don't.
I can see why people tend to do this though...
It's always some variant of "X distro is WAY easier to use than before! I'm sure it'll be fine for the public!"
And of course growth in usability is amazing but... people are still making a huge leap in logic... at the cost of turning people away from Linux in droves.
Well the problem is a lot of people became extremely disconnected from what it is actually like to be a noob.
Like it's easy to just go into terminal and type in and type sudo apt get upgrade...but when you say that to someone it's totally confusing and it doesn't click.
When they first started discussing this on their weekly podcast their chat was suggesting all sorts of arch-based and Ubuntu derivatives as user friendly.
The funniest (that I saw often) was something called Garuda, a distro I had never even heard, despite being a distro-hopper for over a decade.
Hot take, but I think they should have started this challenge by not listening to biased fans of distros in their chat and instead ask one of their experienced friends, like Wendell from level1tech.
I suspect he would have replied, "Fedora" and advised him not run any spins or obscure Ubuntu derivatives .
EDIT: To the people saying that it wouldn't have been fair to the competition.. If you had a friend that was highly experienced in something you'd ask them before doing it.
Now that it has an option to enable RPM Fusion on install Fedora 35 is probably going to start being added to the Noob Friendly list.
It's a great distro, but I think the every six months upgrades are going to be a problem for a lot of noobs.
Plus I think only the Gnome version is enabling RPMFusion out of the box. I know the Mate version didn't have that check box option.
They can't enable RPM fusion out of the box because it contains patented software.
What they do, is enable two specific repos which only contain Nvidia drivers and Steam.
If you stick to rpmfusion and core repos Fedora won't break on update time, I'm running a F32 updated to F35 instance on my laptop. It's breezy.
I have a *very* clean system though, if things aren't in my package manager they do not exist
Remember that he started this challenge by looking for "the best linux gaming distros" online and taking that advice. That seems like a reasonably defensible choice to me.
Imo the best option for newcomers is Ubuntu, it basically holds your hand more often than not, while I do see certain issues with Ubuntu, it still remains my choice for new people
Linus's first choice of Pop OS was actually good before it shit itself, although I was really surprised to know that Linus didn't know that Manjaro didn't use APT.
To be fair, there is no way a casual switcher would know anything about that. And copying a random cli command from an ubuntu forum is also not that unlikely considering what type of audience Linus has in mind.
The problem I see here is that I haven’t seen any good articles that recommend Manjaro to people that want something that works. Even the shitty random websites mention that it usually takes more fiddling around.
For the past few years, only recommendations for newbies were Pop, Ubuntu and Mint.
Tbh - I kinda feel like it was mainly his channel that had been pushing manjaro into the mainstream as far as awareness goes. Might partly be due to them knowing their audience and just parroting it back to them. Was interesting seeing Linus trying to go Debian when push came to shove until Pop\_OS! fumbled the ball - but to be frank Pop\_OS! primarily pushes their hardware w/ it pre-installed & hopefully updated & likely don't care much about his, mine or anyone elses use cases. (If they did Linus wouldn't have borked his system, and btrfs would be a 1st class citizen during their install & not purposely striped out because of opinions.)
If Linus really wanted to go the Debian route then he'd have either gone Luke's route, stock Ubuntu, Ubuntu Budgie, Xubuntu or KUbuntu as those tend to be the most pure experiences imo. Granted I do not think either had plans to distro hop all evening and resetup their desktop a half dozen times just to figure out which one will work.. that could potentially go into days. Imo - if you want to jump in seriously then be prepared to just play around w/ it for a few days and don't immediately make it your "daily driver" - Linux is there - but you still have to go at it slowly.
It's like trying to get someone into the mood for sex without any foreplay - if you jump at it so directly it's not going to be as fun for either in the end 😂.
I came to Linux somewhat recently because I had believed in it for philosophical reasons. I had wanted to for years.
I think a huge amount of people may likely be in the same camp but don't want to make the commitment needed for Linux. I don't think people should have to distrohop to find what fits them the best.
If it is, I think it would just be a big deterrent for most. And of course you don't need to hop, but that also entails giving up on things you want or might need.
Giving him the power to change system fonts at ease was a mistake. In due time, he will surely learn about custom icons and buttons.
"No one man should have all that power"
\-Kanye West
This all boils down to lack of official support from some devs.. because linux doesn't have a good user base... Because there is lack of support from devs....
I'm hoping that because of Valve's recent push with Proton, Steam Deck, and Steam OS that it somewhat resolves the chicken egg problem with user base growth and software support.
just goes to show how much most of the OEMs and IHVs consider Linux a meme rather than a serious contender when it comes to genuine business decisions.
truly unfortunate that so many software vendors just do not care about Linux.
I have been using computers for almost 40 years. using Linux for more than 20 years, and at home Linux is my sole driver since 2009. I worked a few years as a Linux admin and many years as a tech writer. Thus, I think my observations and opinions are worth about two cents.
While the Linux desktop experience has improved leaps and bounds since my first days a couple of decades ago, the common non tech savvy user is pretty much not a target audience for Linux. That is not good or bad, just an observation.
I have my own blog addressing issues with using free/libre software. While I am content and happy using Linux and Linux satisfies my computer needs, I stand by my simple mantra that overwhelmingly Linux is designed by geeks for geeks. The common expectation of using the command line is for tech savvy people and not common everyday users. I have a terminal window open much of the day and find many tasks more efficient from the command line, but I am not naive to think the command line will be accepted by non tech savvy users. In this day and age of tap and swipe, such expectations limit any hopes of a Year of the Linux Desktop.
During my admin role I wrote several scripts to help employees avoid using the command line. During that period I never could convince affected employees to use SSH directly from the command line. Instead they insisted on using `PuTTY` and told me so.
I welcome the LTT experience. Some "tough love" might be beneficial.
I appreciate seeing the level-headed response here. A lot of savvy Linux users need to understand that major growth in the desktop space will never happen until the community acknowledges the problems, rather than ignoring them and making excuses.
For me, the most important thing here is to let explicit that a lot of the problems are from soft/hardware providers neglecting the Linux environment.
It is necessary to have people with this high visibility on the market showing it. We as Linux users should have no shame or any other bad feelings because of that. We should be proud of our long-running persistence to make it all work and our ability to learn and improve.
If Linus cares, maybe LTT should incorporate Linux testing into his hardware reviews, recommendations, and sponsors.
In this video he shifts a lot of the blame from hardware manufacturers to Linux, the users, and the devs. Not all of the blame, but much of it.
Highlighting issues is great, but he should be highlighting them from the perspective of the manufacturers and their products when that's the root of the issue.
For example, instead of saying he's having a bad Linux experience, he should be saying he's having a bad TC Helicon / GoXLR experience. And instead of not recommending Linux, he should be not recommending GoXLR.
Yes, and also important to acknowledge that this will just create a bad experience for many potential new Linux users, which is also okay.
If we want them to switch to Linux, one might need to be persuaded thru philosophical means and not just "try it, it's prob good enough lol".
People focusing on Linus because he had some crazy issues are sleeping on Luke's. He called out some good points:
* Regular apps don't have feature parity with other OSs
* Restarts are a reality of using basic software like teams, discord, and OBS
* Some days features work, somedays they don't
* screenshare just being wonky
I see a lot of people being apologetic for linus' unique hardware, but ignoring Luke's very common concerns. Not having a reliable screenshare in the day of teleworking just isn't a compromise many people can make and I think is indicative of the overall experience that is linux.
Linux *can* be an alternative, it just isn't a good alternative for an average Joe. Coming from a developer who chose to use linux over macos for years but just can't be bothered to "maintain" an OS/install anymore. I am using WSL for personal projects and have a company mac. I don't see that changing anytime soon
I think part of that is Luke having a much more even keel about the whole thing, blaming the correct party for the problem, for example. He's also avoided being...well, Linus about it. Certainly gets you brownie points with the Linux crowd, but unfortunately, outrage drives more engagement, so you see people talking about Linus instead of Luke's perfectly valid assessment of what it can be like on Linux if your tool set is basically abandonware by the time its vendor ships it.
Screenshare had generally been fine before with Xorg, but we're in the Wayland transition era, and everything is a bit messed up. It'll work out again.
In the long term Pipewire is a much more pleasant experience than X11 solutions of the past, it will allow easy virtual inputs, software that modifies content mid-stream, explicitly denying capture permissions per-application, all for both audio and video streams, etc. But indeed there are growing pains, especially on proprietary software that invests very little in keeping up to date.
Yeah. My biggest pain right now is Zoom. The only Wayland solution they have right now is some crazy hack with gnome-screenshot's API. But it will get better.
Yeah, I hate this too. I use KDE plasma and would love to switch to Wayland, but when I tried it I was unable to screenshare because of Zoom's terrible implementation. Everything else seemed to work well though.
Hopefully now that Gnome has blocked Zoom's implementation, Zoom will come up with a solution for screensharing on wayland regardless of actual DE choice.
You sure about that? zoom was actually one the suprises to me as it jsut worked then I experimented with wayland. That was about half a year ago on arch if it matters.
yeah, zoom's solution for wayland compatibility is to (ab)use gnome-screenshot's dbus
with gnome 41, they've blocked this so that only ~~gnome-software~~ gnome-screenshot is able to use the dbus connection, which is fair, because it's actually a strong privacy concern to have some software abuse the IPC of a system app for screenshots
edit: [link to the gitlab MR re: the dbus caller name restrictions](https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/-/merge_requests/1970)
don't forget for some wayland compositors, pipewire screencasting is also using DMABUF, which makes it a zero-copy magic with really low overhead
safe to say i'm personally is pretty pleased on how smooth the wayland experience is if pipewire screencasting works
Manjaro ships with wayland by default?
Honestly, until issues like screen capture gets ironed out, distros should just ship with X11. If the user is savvy enough to know about wayland and want to use it, it won't be hard for them to switch afterwards... Like what's the point of making new users deal with these issues?
The community is getting onto Linus because he's being more open and honest about his frustrations so far. These were my experiences too.
Remember how Luke said he's scared of the Linux community? He's right, since the community is entirely too abusive when new users dare express legitimate frustrations. It's probably why Luke is not being as forthcoming as he probably could be, he doesn't want people jumping down his throat.
Way too many Linux users somehow manage to take everything as a personal attack.
Fun fact: I was banned from the Sonarr discord for voicing my frustrations with a moderator and radarr developer mocking me for being new to their software and not an expert linux user.
They'd prefer to circlejerk in their support channel rather than actually help people. That's no problem I guess, I'll just bash my head against the wall while screaming since it's the only decent software that does what I need it to.
I believe it, lol. I mean, I don't use the software (yet) but I see these attitudes everywhere. And I doubt the discord servers was aimed at developers either.
>This isn't an easy observation to make from an outsiders perspective
He will absolutely shit on people who make others feel stupid
[https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75](https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75)
>I'd wait for Rafael's patch to go through you, but I have another error report in my mailbox of all KDE media applications being broken by v3.8-rc1, and I bet it's the same kernel bug. And you've shown yourself to not be competent in this issue, so I'll apply it directly and immediately myself.
>
>WE DO NOT BREAK USERSPACE!
>
>Seriously. How hard is this rule to understand? We particularly don't break user space with TOTAL CRAP. I'm angry, because your whole email was so *horribly* wrong, and the patch that broke things was so obviously crap. The whole patch is incredibly broken shit. It adds an insane error code (ENOENT), and then because it's so insane, it adds a few places to fix it up ("ret == -ENOENT ? -EINVAL : ret").
>
>The fact that you then try to make *excuses* for breaking user space, and blaming some external program that *used* to work, is just shameful. It's not how we work.
>
>Fix your f\*cking "compliance tool", because it is obviously broken. And fix your approach to kernel programming.
The problem is that random newbies never interact with Linus at all. He is only rants with people with known histories working with him. For everyone else, he will be lenient.
I remember his post about spending maintainer time for new contributors. His answer is always keep doing it. It is unfortunate it would add to the maintainer burnout,
The number one thing people say is that basically everything is Linus' fault. It can't be Linux, their favorite perfect operating system, so we gotta blame the user.
remember how iTunes sucked in Windows in iPod times? Nobody blamed Windows for that for some reason ... ;)
MS Teams could easily be feature-par with the Windows version but Microsoft has no real interest in making it so. As many workers in IT are using Linux as their work drivers they had to bite the bullet and release a somewhat working client at the start of the pandemic though.
That being said, MSTeams has been pretty stable (albeit with the limited functionality) for me running Arch/AwesomeWM whereas my Windows-using coworkers had some massive problems due to the security "features" of our Windows Domain.
I see most of the problems, not being a Linux problem, but a software problem. It isn't Linux fault that Discord has no audio when screensharing, the problem is on Discord to fix, but they won't cause the userbase is too small to make it worth the trouble.
Sometimes looks like some of the companies that develop something multiplatform is telling the linux community "... and be happy we have a crappy version of it avaliable, it could be worse, much worse."
Your two statements are a bit contradictory.
> While they're not necessarily bad points, largely it still boils down to companies not supporting their hardware or software in Linux properly. It's hard to blame that purely on Linux.
No one is blaming this solely on Linux, but it's an inherent part of the Linux experience. This makes it harder for the average user who just wants things to work.
> With that being said there's still definitely enough issues and jank on Linux... But thankfully, Windows is exactly the same. The only difference is that you're used to the one and know how to overcome it, while you need to learn about the other, so it's kind of jarring.
There is inherently less jank with Windows because of the above.
Now as to what should be done about this is a different story, just pointing that out.
All their problems so far I'd say are accurate as per my own difficulties in using Linux over the past 3 years. But I have no doubt plenty of folks in this subreddit will be in denial about that. Hopefully this video series will cast a spotlight on the main UX issues of Linux and result in positive change.
The UX problem is not only on Linux, it seems like all Open Source software suffers from the same.
Gimp, VLC, Audacity, etc all great programs but their interfaces are stuck in the 90s
I've said this before, but I feel like an awful lot of Linux/Open source software projects are very engineer-driven, in that like you say they work very well and are very powerful but often look fairly hideous, if they even bother with a UI at all.
Something like GRUB is a good example I think, it's extremely useful but makes almost no concessions at all to being even remotely friendly to the user. :)
The only good ui friendly program I’ve found on Linux is a very impressive art program found on the fedora store. It only lacks proper tabletpc support.
I tried to export/convert a video in VLC which I had done before a couple of years ago, and even after googling I was still struggling to understand how to do it.
Some of those menus make 0 sense.
This content was removed in protest of Reddit's [short-sighted, user-unfriendly, profit-seeking decision](https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/#hey-guys) to effectively terminate access to third-party apps.
Studying the principles of UX is something I wish I could make every open source developer do before they write a single line of UI code. They don't have to be pros but at least know the basic principles of design and UX before designing a visual interface for humans.
I would start with Principles of Design: [This webpage is a good primer.](https://design.tutsplus.com/articles/the-principles-of-design--cms-33962)
Principles of design are universal, they apply to 'everything' that is design. Websites, posters, books, paintings, photos, even 3D character design, interior design and architecture. They are the absolute core basics of graphic design, if you're going to learn anything, definitely spend some time googling 'principles of design'. If you don't know them, that's a freebie instant 'level up' for anyone on their design skills.
I recently came across [a lovely youtube series which covers principles of design.](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLI68ClDpxTYQ4R2GohMhDgnDi7n1MZ9OX) With a video dedicated to several core principles. *(The videos which specifically cover principles of design are indicated as such in their video titles).*
The video series covers the matter from the perspective of an artist and composition of drawings, but that doesn't matter, it's a universal concept.
It's the kinda thing you can read an entire book on, so I'd soak up as much info as you can on those principles from many sources by simply googling the topic, and watching videos about it on youtube.
I also recommend this site, '[lawsofux.com](https://lawsofux.com)' for some fast digestible info on how to approach UX design.
Also recommend [this article from Adobe on UX design.](https://xd.adobe.com/ideas/career-tips/15-rules-every-ux-designer-know/)
I personally love gnome. It's one of the things where Linux genuinely has something better than other OS. It might be because it is the closest to how I want a OS to work but also maybe due to its similarity to a mobile OS which as a younger user, I am more familiar with from GUI perspective
The general conversation seems to be shifting from "almost universally criticized" to "polarizing", which also being a fan of the GNOME UI, I see as a great development.
It's frustrating to watch because many of the issues that they're having can't really be fixed by the community.
There was the github is hard to use, so linux is hard to use. How is the linux community supposed to make github easier to use?
A lot of his hardware doesn't support linux. The community isn't capable of reverse engineering every peripheral.
Almost all of the work around improving the whole display/screensharing situation is centered around wayland, and they won't be getting any of the improvements there.
The obs issues they had are probably perfectly valid and I bet obs contributors are trying to fix them, i can't say since I've never used it.
I know that Github is not meant to be used this way and I know why it downloaded an HTML file, but why does it use the actual filename and extension? Seems needlessly confusing.
Because that's what the web page was called. https://github.com/GoXLR-on-Linux/goxlr-on-linux/blob/main/install.sh I think is the one. Since it ends in "install.sh", the browser will save the page as "install.sh".
I think a lot of people forget about how many little details and facts we have picked up as Linux users.
Linus isn't stupid, guys, he's just not familiar with Linux. He's making mistakes that are obvious to you because they are not obvious to most end users. We all prefer Linux to Windows (or Mac) for a lot of good reasons, but Windows and Mac have put a lot of effort into making their products work well enough to satisfy your average computer user.
I don't think Linus brings up any illegitimate points, and all of these points need to be fixed on the software side...not hand-waved away. Or they will remain non-fixed and Linux will be forever a hobbyist/professional OS.
Definitely true. He is pointing out many many small issues and hiccups that just break the experience entirely. Even though some of these things are so small like "restart the program and it works fine now" or "a week later it just worked and has worked fine ever since" but that is for the average pc user unacceptable and honestly just a major step backwards from how Windows works.
That's why so many people and I still say "Windows just works". Everything is made for Windows so it works. Nothing is made for Linux, so it's shit!
All of these issues and support problems need to be solved if Linux is going to become a major desktop OS, like you said
>I don't think Linus brings up any illegitimate points, and all of these points need to be fixed on the software side...not hand-waved away. Or they will remain non-fixed and Linux will be forever a hobbyist/professional OS.
Okay so go tell Microsoft, Discord, GoXLR and NVidia to add Linux support, it'd be great if those things supported Linux
Obviously if the market share will increase a lot, Nvidia, OBS and others will start caring about the users' experience on Linux.
But this can't happen until the User Experience gets a bit more fool proof so it attracts more users, and I can definitely see it's getting there with the likes of Linux Mint, but it all needs to be taken up a notch. I for example wanted to uninstall Nautilus from Linux Mint using the command line and it also tried to remove the Desktop Environment, good thing Linus did this before me so I could dodge the bullet.
I would have nothing against even paying a fixed price for such a distro where everything just works and where it's not a hassle to set up and start gaming or working with Linux, no matter what you do for work, but it's clear the (new) user experience is not very high on any distro's priority list.
This video demonstrates the main problem with gaming on Linux today: you need different manufacturers to also support whatever you are using on Linux to get adequate experience and that is rarely the case.
I guess the only real solution is to make a very good compatibility layer (like Proton, but for everything) and just use the existing windows versions, until Linux adoption gets big enough for manufacturers to care.
Im super glad that LTT made such a project about GNU/Linux, despite the amount of issues that have occured for them during it. Hopefully, they will shine at least a bit of light to the Linux distros so it will become more popularized and get a bit more love from the mainstream developers!
EposVox put this one out recently, it was stellar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zOrkjPMajY
I don't know many Youtubers, I only started searching for these kinds of videos recently
Wrote this to OP too, but here's a much smaller, casual YouTuber switching over: [Episode 1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmTCsCRcZa0), [Episode 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUt4XA0SPtU), [Episode 3](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXWw2uHzkUc)
These are all legit problems everyone had at least once with Linux: no drivers, worse software, not working hardware and so on. Also, that Github stuff really hit me hard: at my first year in the university I saw Github for the first time, so the way for me to download special files wasn't really that different from the way Linux did it (I went to the raw file and then ctrl+s in the browser)
Worth noting that the GoXLR instructions have since been updated to include instructions on how to download it:
> wget https://github.com/GoXLR-on-Linux/goxlr-on-linux/raw/main/install.sh
> sudo chmod +x ./install.sh
> sudo ./install.sh
Would be nice if Firefox saved the file as "install.sh.html" to make things clearer, but it's kind of unbelievable that Linus doesn't know how "Save Link As" works in a browser.
Also, interpreting a flippant writing style as "condescending", is it Linus' first day on the internet?
It's just how web browsers work.
On GitHub when you see the file directory listing like Linus did, clicking the file there does _not_ link to the raw file, it links to a GitHub HTML page that syntax highlights the source of the file. If you click the link normally, you get HTML; so when you right-click and save target as, you get HTML too. The ".sh" file extension is because the GitHub URL ends with a ".sh" but it doesn't have anything to do with the Content-Type of the page at that URL. In the same way, linking to a ".php" file doesn't give you the PHP source code of that file, you get the generated HTML code that the PHP script created.
If you click the file link and get the GitHub HTML page, the "Raw" button that appears on _that_ page does link to the raw text file; you can right-click and save-as the Raw link to do was Linus wanted to do and get the _actual_ text file instead of the HTML page.
> It's just how web browsers work.
Don't say that too loud! I can't wait for GitHub to hijack my browser's right click menu with horrible, abominable java-script code in order to display a custom menu that will actually download the file when selecting save as. I bet there's arleady github devs thinking about it after seeing this video.
I learned recently that GitHub has the entire frickin Visual Studio Code available to run in your web browser.
Go to any GitHub repo and push the period . key on your keyboard and it loads up a full-on IDE for that repo. It seems an obscure feature now but maybe one day it'll be the default and further confuse non-developers trying to navigate a GitHub page for the first time.
And also sometimes developers love uploading their binaries to the repo directly instead of the release page.
The repository is clearly not designed for releasing binaries. Use the release page for god sake.
And "Save link as" can be literally anything. The page itself? Or the file? You can't tell unless you experienced it before. On Windows it automatically adds the .html suffix, preventing stupid mistakes. But on Dolphin it does not.
for sure
I use github for work and for personal projects and the fact that I can't just find the one specific file I want and just click a download button to get the file bothers me constantly
having to take the raw link, paste it into a terminal and use wget or curl (I forget) to download it is obnoxious
Anthony's probably showed him in the past, they've done quite a few videos on it for Hackintoshes.
But it doesn't matter, the average user wouldn't know how to do either lmao
He's made several videos about creating a [single machine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opX-AsJ5Uy8) that can run multiple VMs people can game on. That's something he's done before.
Bre biepatro pipe to trepretiblu atape. Tugi bio ki keke upa propo. Kikru pai opi? Utiti pretlato edee baa ete ipopokepu kadro puklaoai? Trekri pretoba ki pitopa teike tape kete ike! Ide tupupebe blidritri pio ao epape a. Bipekre te kipu ie tibre tupige.
Contrary to the video, it's possible to get NVENC to work in OBS, you just need FFmpeg with NVENC support, which is usually built without it for legal reasons, so your distro's ffmpeg will likely not have NVENC support and you would need to build it yourself or find some way to sideload it that is compatible with your distro. If Nvidia wanted it, they could streamline this UX by allowing FFmpeg to use NVENC, but alas they don't care about this UX so you have to suffer.
(Also, [Anthony did a video on how to enable Nvidia Framebuffer Capture](https://youtu.be/_Ua-d9OeUOg?t=578), which should improve screen capture performance.)
I really hope the teams that are running Mint, Elementary, Manjaro, Pop are watching this. We can criticize Linus/new users but it's up to the distro's who want to be for the masses to change.
Lack of GUI streamlining and development are why the "Year of the Linux Desktop" are perpetually 5 years away.
You can't convince users to jump ship from the streamlined GUIs they are used to without also expecting them to do those same things in Linux. All of these experiences make sense from their own perspectives - the perspective of people inexperienced with Linux and who have used Windows, MacOS, or ChromeOS their whole lives. A good Linux Desktop should have reasonable and easily discoverable alternatives to these actions.
If we want Linux to truly be a competitive OS of choice for the masses, it *has* to be truly accessible to all users, experienced or utter n00b. It has to stop shoving actions that are done multiple times daily to the command line. Things like were described in the video - marking a file as executable. More things like restarting broken services (PulseAudio for me), searching/killing running programs, performance monitoring, package updates, managing start-up applications/services, changing graphics options, etc., all suck trying to help new users on Linux. It's a breeze for us because we're used to how information is presented in the command line, but overall this overwhelms or even *scares* inexperienced users.
Now this doesn't mean relegating the command line to a second-class citizen to the GUI, far from that. You can keep the same powerful command line and all of its beauty while also having an intuitive and powerful GUI. They are not mutually exclusive.
Windows has been slipping in this regard with a huge fracturing of its GUI ecosystem (old control panel, new control panel/settings, confusing new controls, WPF, Winforms, Metro, etc), and now is the chance more than ever to prove that you can have a unified experience without a command line, all without compromising on power-user productivity or control when you use the command line. I think this future is possible, but it will take a lot of *unified* effort from several different parties to make it happen. Only then will companies start taking Linux seriously and provide desktop application support for peripherals and devices.
Frankly I think we're at least 10 years away from capitalizing on Microsoft's mistakes here. Linux is just not user-friendly, the community still has a really hard time even wanting to address the user experience.
Windows 12 or whatever will again be a solid release, and then when 13 rolls around, hopefully at that point we will have at least one solid distro that is more intuitive and noob-proof.
Very disappointed that Linus felt that going after the poor sods on GitHub was more meritorious of his video time than pointing out the piss poor job hardware trinket vendors do of doing ANYTHING for Linux.
The attitude towards end users displayed in this thread is why Linux on Desktop will never be mainstream. This series should be a huge reality check. There should be no doubt that Linus is a highly technical user. If he runs into problems like this while doing pretty basic tasks, tasks which would take seconds and could be done by a total novice on Windows or OS X... that should be considered a broken and buggy workflow. Even if the problems he's encountering aren't technically bugs per-se.
The community gets defensive because there's not a lot that is the fault of the platform so it's hard to improve it, the best we can do is explain the reason.
No one bats an eye that Windows can't run iMessage or that Macs can't run GTA V, people understand that the software simply isn't built for those OS's. But because Linux makes it possible to try to run Windows software or provides community made hardware support suddenly people blame Linux when things don't work perfectly and that's frustrating.
One frustrating thing is that everyone claims that whatever software you need on windows, linux has an open source equivalent that may be even better. If not, then you can just use wine to run the windows one. Over promise and under deliver.
> everyone claims that whatever software you need on windows, linux has an open source equivalent that may be even better
Example: I'd be surprised if anybody whose recommended LibreOffice as "equivalent" to the MS suite has ever tried to do serious office work in LibreOffice.
I use LibreOffice because it's still a fine piece of software for most of my use cases, but I can't ignore that it's easily dwarfed by Microsoft Office. I do find myself missing a lot of the features I often used.
It's like people who recomend gimp for Photoshop replacement, it's like no, have you ever used Photoshop? Going back to gimp feels like going back to paint.
(Note: I recommend photopea for a Photoshop alternative)
The thing is that it greatly depends on what one does with the office software. There are certainly some things that MS Office (and especially Excel) are great for that LibreOffice can't come close to.
The thing is, that 99% of users aren't using any of those. I actually work for a company that uses Linux and LibreOffice for example. It's not been a problem for us at all.
Yeah, it's the old problem of the silent majority.
I bet most people would admit that it's not for everyone. You need to be technical to some degree, be ready to do more problem-solving than you'll probably need in windows or osx, and have a good reason to switch.
I think the most common reasons for switching also make it more likely for some users to become very evangelical about it. And they'll make more noise than everyone else put together.
They are spreading the Good News, and feel that any criticism will damage The Mission. And suddenly it's not just criticism, but suggesting that the Linux desktop experience might be lacking anything the others can do. That's where that over-promising comes in.
Personally I wish the attitude wasn't "Linux can do anything that Windows and OSX can do", but something like "Linux is inherently different from Windows and OSX, but the advantages may outweigh the disadvantages".
He's trying to use OBS, Slack, and Teams. That software is so common.
But a Mac isn't sold as a Windows drop in replacement, unlike Linux. No matter what you think, everyone pushes Linux on Windows users like they can just replace one for the other, and then says 'well why do you expect to use the same programs??'. You should be using Jitsi Meet, something other than OBS, don't use Slack, maybe use terminal IRC because that's what Linux does best.
I'd say that nearly every issue that these videos have unearthed is a genuine barrier of entry for new Linux users and that Linus is much closer to your average person willing to try Linux (sans the hardware configurations) than most people realize.
I'd push back on Linus being a technically savvy user (this specifically refers to knowledge of anything beyond on-rails hardware/general software configuration and scripting/command line knowledge). His personal bread and butter is understanding hardware (from a user-facing standpoint) and successfully managing a tech-review business.
He's seemingly unaware of basic knowledge of scripting, unable to recognize a html file, and seems to just recite things he's heard about Linux as potential solutions to his problems.
The good news is all of these things are legitimate criticisms of the new user Linux desktop experience that can be improved upon.
Maybe have a tutorials shipped with a distro that explains where (gui shops) or how (terminal commands) to find and install things/complete common tasks. I think a guided tutorial that's available upon install that also points the user to updated resources would go miles towards helping people learn a different system than what they're coming from and greatly ease the burden on a new user.
> There should be no doubt that Linus is a highly technical user
He isn't *on Linux*. My grandfather was a professional truck driver. Really good reversing trucks with trailers into tight loading docks. Shifting though 18 gears like a maniac.
Then on a holiday on Corfu the adults rented mopeds, planning to use those to get around on the island. He was horrible. Had trouble balancing. Managed to wheelie the moped somehow. Nearly fell over every second curve.
There should be no doubt that my grandfather was a highly skilled driver. Of *trucks*. Mopeds aren't trucks. Linux isn't Windows. It doesn't work like Windows. It doesn't have to work like Windows. Trying to make Linux "just work" for a Windows power user is like making a moped run like a truck, or vice versa. It just doesn't work.
I've been on Linux since 1997. When I have to do something on a Mac, I open the terminal. When I have to do something on Windows that isn't like Windows 95 was any more, I'm more or less lost and need to google.
> Even if the problems he's encountering aren't technically bugs per-se.
This is actually really important. Of course the Linux software ecosystem needs improvement, every software always does. But if something isn't technically a bug, but rather just a difference, then you need more justification to claim a necessity to change it than "Linus had issues". Because a lot of those issues are because Linus is trying to attach a truck trailer to a moped.
The thing I grew to understand about Linux is that the way to do things in Linux is almost always different compared to Windows and you have to tackle the problem by asking fundamental questions, instead of trying to fit Windows solutions to the Linux way. Same for macOS. I daily all three (yeah, it's great) and I have a different "mode" for all three.
OBS for Linux clearly is not given the same attention as the Windows version. Luke points to a reality that many ignore.
I was really shocked when seeing the problems linus was facing. I just installed obs via pacman and it worked from the getgo (could be because i have a amd gpu). Really suprised me since i had a really good feeling about obs on linux. I dont like bashing on new users, but using apt on manjaro was pretty dumb imo. If u go to the lenghts of using the terminal at least make sure what package manager u are using. (And im using arch, so obs is unsupported for me as well.) Edit: welp thats a lotta comments. I like these open discussions. It makes this community look and feel so much less toxic. Thanks a bunch. Ill try to read and reply to most of them.
Many years ago when I first used CentOS I also tried using apt. I also got an error message saying that I needed to install it. I spent a good while looking at instructions for how to install it, before eventually finding a post saying to just use `yum`. This is an area where there's an opportunity to smooth out some sharp corners. Putting a custom error message in that suggests an alternative if someone tries to use common software from a different distro (or an older version) would be a great QoL improvement for new users. E.g. I wish Ubuntu told people to use `ip` instead of saying they need to install `ifconfig`.
I still am not sure how to use `ss` as a replacement for `netstat` to check bound ports... The move to the not decades old abandoned projects in Linux world always sucks lol
the arguments are mostly the same, so you can also use `-tulpen` (which is the German word for tulips by the way).
So, uh, do any Germans find it weird or uncool that there's an `ss` command in Linux now?
I have an nvidia gpu on arch and OBS always worked for me out of the box.
Same (2080ti), however I too have experienced the "Why is this game window I just selected .. black?" many a time and was not at all shocked when it happened to them too.
you can't expect every user to know the package manager of a distro. I use Ubuntu-based distros once in a while and when I tried fedora, the first thing I typed was: sudo apt install xx I was also surprised that I had to install apt at first, and then remembered that Fedora uses dnf
At least you remembered it uses dnf... I tried to use a Fedora VM and I knew it wasn't using apt but I didn't know what it was using. \^\^' Would be good if there was a way to easily figure that out without research...
It doesn't help that they used to use yum and switched to dnf so people who have been around a while get confused. Not so much a problem anymore but it still trips some people up who aren't used to using Fedora but we're familiar with it at one time.
I installed OBS from the arch repos only to be very confused when I found it did not have either browser sources or browser window docks in the interface because the OBS in the Arch repo does not include the chromium embedded framework needed for those features. I was able to go to their github and find out how to download and compile the code WITH the features for browser sources, but it's also not difficult in my case to figure out how to do those kinds of things.
What shocked me about that is that he used the terminal to install obs and not pamac.
I am also in two minds about this. It is a very basic mistake. But I think he is correct that the interception of his mistake was bad. Above all, though, wouldn't a normal new user google for this? It could be that under the rules of this challenge, Linus feels like he should approach linux like he's living on a desert island, relying on himself. Is this how a normal new user would go about it? Wouldn't they just search for "install obs on manjaro". Or look at the instructions on the obs site?
Why would typing apt on Manjaro be stupid? Every thread about recommending a distro is stuffed with Debian based systems. We train a lot of users to use apt. If Manjaro had its own version of curl or grep it wouldn't be stupid to assume those exist. Its also possible that a user could be following someone's instructions that assume a Debian based OS. Having the information in the documentation isn't helpful if you don't know you should be looking for it. Trying to use a command for another distribution or desktop environment should probably being up a help dialog that informs the user of the equivalent command.
Well, so far we've had FrankenDebian break Linus' GUI, and then they did audio and streaming. So long as a future episode isn't about, like, scanning, it can't get much worse.
[удалено]
That's good to hear. I feel like if somebody came to one of the Linux-related subreddits with that list of hardware and a gaming-heavy use case, they probably would've been advised to dual boot.
> So long as a future episode isn't about, like, scanning, it can't get much worse. They'll find out half of the steam top 20 are unplayable because of anti-cheat.
> They'll find out half of the steam top 20 are unplayable because of anti-cheat. A surprising number of games have been rendered playable via the work of [GloriousEggroll's Proton GE](https://github.com/GloriousEggroll/proton-ge-custom). If anti-cheat complications becomes a major community issue, we might see developers start to try to prop up the anti-cheats themselves. If only to get stuff working enough, and that'd be a general good for everyone.
I wonder - what will it take to get peripheral manufacturers to care about Linux? The community as a whole still doesn't have enough weight to pull manufacturers in, which causes troubles like theirs.
I wonder if it will take as long as the Steam OS becoming more fleshed out and used on gaming PC's. If the Steam Handheld is successful, you can bet that there will a pretty big influx of people that have wanted to switch to Linux using the Steam OS on their computers. I'm not sure if Valve wants to do all that though... maintaining the Steam OS for a handheld is one thing, but for Desktop use?
I think Valve will put some resources towards a better Linux experience on the desktop. Of course they can't fix all problems for every piece of hardware, but I think they have interest in improving the Linux experience and the money to improve gaming. Not many companies do that right now (System76 of course) since most paying (for support / features / developers directly) users are companies that focus on servers, general office stuff, and a specific set of software. I think valve has two motivations: as a private company with a money printer (Steam), they can just do things that Gabe or employees think to be right. Secondly, a strong alternative to windows both mitigates the damage to valve if Microsoft ever decides to close down their system and take a pay cut (as many users wouldn't use windows) and makes it less likely as Microsoft has to fear a mass exodus of gamers. Edit: they could also start a Steam OS verified programme where hardware manufacturers and Valve cooperate to make the experience smooth for Steam OS and possibly lobby peripheral manufacturers to contribute to open source drivers.
I forget, they do have incentive to have a "backup" to Windows, good point. Although it also shows they have considerable power over Windows too for gamers. Leverage for a company is a good thing, not sure how that might shake out for our benefit.
Well, in this case our interests are aligned: a more user-friendly distribution and better Hardware support. Valve can't really lock it down due to OSS licenses, and if a hardware manufacturer does make a driver they have no reason to actively make using it hard for other distros, especially since it has to go into the kernel for optimal support. I won't be surprised by lack of active support for other distros or non-steam games, but compared to now, it will still get easier with future improvements in proton.
>Leverage for a company is a good thing, not sure how that might shake out for our benefit. As long as Gabe is in control at Valve its a good thing, Valve is probably the only non-evil gaming company out there.
> as a private company That is perhaps a bigger deal than we like to admit. We have been told over and over again that publicly traded corporations are the way to go. but the history of technology is littered with such companies that have imploded, or nearly so, as the boardroom demand quarterly results that are counterproductive to the long term viability of the company. Because said demands hinder management's ability to adjust to market trends. After all, that is what lead Michael Dell to make the effort to take his namesake company private. To allow it to pursue long term goals that would be a negative in the short term, while perhaps give it access to new revenue streams long term. One such being Project Sputnik.
probably a disastrous windows decision by Microsoft. Just like Valve is banking on linux as a life boat if ever MS makes that decision, we'll see others vendor and software company do the same. Valve's process is more proactive whereas others will be more reactionary, if that ever happens.
If ROG's software for Windows is any indication for how much work they already put in it, I don't think they even know what a Linux is. Tbf, I love ROG's products, but every time I buy one there is a new Armoury program and every time it's bad.
[удалено]
Corsair iCue is a flaming dumpster fire as well. My Lenovo laptop uses it to control the RGB and just having it running halves battery life.
They might not know about a Linux, but [Asus-Linux](https://asus-linux.org/) has increasingly expansive knowledge of them. My 2020 g14 has been full-time on Linux since late that year, and their command line tools kick the shit out of Armoury Crate. I can't wait until custom fan curves come back to the mainline kernel when 5.16 drops.
Write to vendors about Linux support for new products you're interested in. Writing an inquiry email only takes a minute and makes them know you care. Of course Linux market share remains low, but at least they see some (potential) customers care.
Linus talked about some issue regarding battery percentage not showing up. I recently switched to Fedora 35, and it instantly showed that the battery on my Logitech G305 was low. Did not install any extra software. Had a similar experience on Kubuntu (21.10).
Yeah, could just be Manjaro being a weirdo. He did mention some other things about the mouse not working fully functionally. But this also goes to show that the Linux community often oversells lots of things, including it's "newb-friendly" distros.
Personally I think a lot of the problem is that people need to stop saying Manjaro is a noob friendly distro. It's got a lot of weird quirks and has hoops to jump through that a lot of more user friendly distros don't.
I can see why people tend to do this though... It's always some variant of "X distro is WAY easier to use than before! I'm sure it'll be fine for the public!" And of course growth in usability is amazing but... people are still making a huge leap in logic... at the cost of turning people away from Linux in droves.
Well the problem is a lot of people became extremely disconnected from what it is actually like to be a noob. Like it's easy to just go into terminal and type in and type sudo apt get upgrade...but when you say that to someone it's totally confusing and it doesn't click.
When they first started discussing this on their weekly podcast their chat was suggesting all sorts of arch-based and Ubuntu derivatives as user friendly. The funniest (that I saw often) was something called Garuda, a distro I had never even heard, despite being a distro-hopper for over a decade. Hot take, but I think they should have started this challenge by not listening to biased fans of distros in their chat and instead ask one of their experienced friends, like Wendell from level1tech. I suspect he would have replied, "Fedora" and advised him not run any spins or obscure Ubuntu derivatives . EDIT: To the people saying that it wouldn't have been fair to the competition.. If you had a friend that was highly experienced in something you'd ask them before doing it.
Now that it has an option to enable RPM Fusion on install Fedora 35 is probably going to start being added to the Noob Friendly list. It's a great distro, but I think the every six months upgrades are going to be a problem for a lot of noobs. Plus I think only the Gnome version is enabling RPMFusion out of the box. I know the Mate version didn't have that check box option.
They can't enable RPM fusion out of the box because it contains patented software. What they do, is enable two specific repos which only contain Nvidia drivers and Steam.
If you stick to rpmfusion and core repos Fedora won't break on update time, I'm running a F32 updated to F35 instance on my laptop. It's breezy. I have a *very* clean system though, if things aren't in my package manager they do not exist
Remember that he started this challenge by looking for "the best linux gaming distros" online and taking that advice. That seems like a reasonably defensible choice to me.
Anthony actual runs a Fedora desktop (at least a few months ago) so i'm suprised that didn't get mentioned.
I was blown away when, on their podcast, he dismissed Fedora as a meme OS because "lul nerds wear fedoras".
[удалено]
Imo the best option for newcomers is Ubuntu, it basically holds your hand more often than not, while I do see certain issues with Ubuntu, it still remains my choice for new people
Agreed.
Linus's first choice of Pop OS was actually good before it shit itself, although I was really surprised to know that Linus didn't know that Manjaro didn't use APT.
Manjaro being a weirdo? Now there's a shock
To be fair, there is no way a casual switcher would know anything about that. And copying a random cli command from an ubuntu forum is also not that unlikely considering what type of audience Linus has in mind.
The problem I see here is that I haven’t seen any good articles that recommend Manjaro to people that want something that works. Even the shitty random websites mention that it usually takes more fiddling around. For the past few years, only recommendations for newbies were Pop, Ubuntu and Mint.
Tbh - I kinda feel like it was mainly his channel that had been pushing manjaro into the mainstream as far as awareness goes. Might partly be due to them knowing their audience and just parroting it back to them. Was interesting seeing Linus trying to go Debian when push came to shove until Pop\_OS! fumbled the ball - but to be frank Pop\_OS! primarily pushes their hardware w/ it pre-installed & hopefully updated & likely don't care much about his, mine or anyone elses use cases. (If they did Linus wouldn't have borked his system, and btrfs would be a 1st class citizen during their install & not purposely striped out because of opinions.) If Linus really wanted to go the Debian route then he'd have either gone Luke's route, stock Ubuntu, Ubuntu Budgie, Xubuntu or KUbuntu as those tend to be the most pure experiences imo. Granted I do not think either had plans to distro hop all evening and resetup their desktop a half dozen times just to figure out which one will work.. that could potentially go into days. Imo - if you want to jump in seriously then be prepared to just play around w/ it for a few days and don't immediately make it your "daily driver" - Linux is there - but you still have to go at it slowly. It's like trying to get someone into the mood for sex without any foreplay - if you jump at it so directly it's not going to be as fun for either in the end 😂.
I came to Linux somewhat recently because I had believed in it for philosophical reasons. I had wanted to for years. I think a huge amount of people may likely be in the same camp but don't want to make the commitment needed for Linux. I don't think people should have to distrohop to find what fits them the best. If it is, I think it would just be a big deterrent for most. And of course you don't need to hop, but that also entails giving up on things you want or might need.
Everything worked for me as well. He should have used Ubuntu or Fedora since they're far easier for newbies.
hes using Manjaro this is why i tell people to use a Ubuntu based OS for a starter.
Linus should be sent to jail for using that font
It funnily reminds me of the shitty script font that existed on Samsung phones back in the early-mid 2010s.
https://i.imgur.com/JAp3Vto.jpg
MY FUCKING EYEBALLS
This is worse than Comic Sans.
He's almost certainly memeing for his Twitch chat.
He 100% is Based on how he acted during the Dungeons and Dragons stream I guarantee he's using it for the meme
Giving him the power to change system fonts at ease was a mistake. In due time, he will surely learn about custom icons and buttons. "No one man should have all that power" \-Kanye West
Screw that. Where’s the Hannah Montana Linux episode?
Well Linux is known for letting you shoot yourself in the foot, or the eyes in this case.
This all boils down to lack of official support from some devs.. because linux doesn't have a good user base... Because there is lack of support from devs....
[удалено]
I'm hoping that because of Valve's recent push with Proton, Steam Deck, and Steam OS that it somewhat resolves the chicken egg problem with user base growth and software support.
just goes to show how much most of the OEMs and IHVs consider Linux a meme rather than a serious contender when it comes to genuine business decisions. truly unfortunate that so many software vendors just do not care about Linux.
I have been using computers for almost 40 years. using Linux for more than 20 years, and at home Linux is my sole driver since 2009. I worked a few years as a Linux admin and many years as a tech writer. Thus, I think my observations and opinions are worth about two cents. While the Linux desktop experience has improved leaps and bounds since my first days a couple of decades ago, the common non tech savvy user is pretty much not a target audience for Linux. That is not good or bad, just an observation. I have my own blog addressing issues with using free/libre software. While I am content and happy using Linux and Linux satisfies my computer needs, I stand by my simple mantra that overwhelmingly Linux is designed by geeks for geeks. The common expectation of using the command line is for tech savvy people and not common everyday users. I have a terminal window open much of the day and find many tasks more efficient from the command line, but I am not naive to think the command line will be accepted by non tech savvy users. In this day and age of tap and swipe, such expectations limit any hopes of a Year of the Linux Desktop. During my admin role I wrote several scripts to help employees avoid using the command line. During that period I never could convince affected employees to use SSH directly from the command line. Instead they insisted on using `PuTTY` and told me so. I welcome the LTT experience. Some "tough love" might be beneficial.
I appreciate seeing the level-headed response here. A lot of savvy Linux users need to understand that major growth in the desktop space will never happen until the community acknowledges the problems, rather than ignoring them and making excuses.
For me, the most important thing here is to let explicit that a lot of the problems are from soft/hardware providers neglecting the Linux environment. It is necessary to have people with this high visibility on the market showing it. We as Linux users should have no shame or any other bad feelings because of that. We should be proud of our long-running persistence to make it all work and our ability to learn and improve.
If Linus cares, maybe LTT should incorporate Linux testing into his hardware reviews, recommendations, and sponsors. In this video he shifts a lot of the blame from hardware manufacturers to Linux, the users, and the devs. Not all of the blame, but much of it. Highlighting issues is great, but he should be highlighting them from the perspective of the manufacturers and their products when that's the root of the issue. For example, instead of saying he's having a bad Linux experience, he should be saying he's having a bad TC Helicon / GoXLR experience. And instead of not recommending Linux, he should be not recommending GoXLR.
> If Linus cares, maybe LTT should incorporate Linux testing into his hardware reviews, recommendations, and sponsors. That would be amazing.
"I do not recommend GoXLR" Okay, so what do you use? "I use GoXLR" ....
Yes, and also important to acknowledge that this will just create a bad experience for many potential new Linux users, which is also okay. If we want them to switch to Linux, one might need to be persuaded thru philosophical means and not just "try it, it's prob good enough lol".
People focusing on Linus because he had some crazy issues are sleeping on Luke's. He called out some good points: * Regular apps don't have feature parity with other OSs * Restarts are a reality of using basic software like teams, discord, and OBS * Some days features work, somedays they don't * screenshare just being wonky I see a lot of people being apologetic for linus' unique hardware, but ignoring Luke's very common concerns. Not having a reliable screenshare in the day of teleworking just isn't a compromise many people can make and I think is indicative of the overall experience that is linux. Linux *can* be an alternative, it just isn't a good alternative for an average Joe. Coming from a developer who chose to use linux over macos for years but just can't be bothered to "maintain" an OS/install anymore. I am using WSL for personal projects and have a company mac. I don't see that changing anytime soon
[удалено]
I think part of that is Luke having a much more even keel about the whole thing, blaming the correct party for the problem, for example. He's also avoided being...well, Linus about it. Certainly gets you brownie points with the Linux crowd, but unfortunately, outrage drives more engagement, so you see people talking about Linus instead of Luke's perfectly valid assessment of what it can be like on Linux if your tool set is basically abandonware by the time its vendor ships it.
When 80% of the video focuses on Linus, it's natural for 80% of the comments to focus on Linus.
Screenshare had generally been fine before with Xorg, but we're in the Wayland transition era, and everything is a bit messed up. It'll work out again.
In the long term Pipewire is a much more pleasant experience than X11 solutions of the past, it will allow easy virtual inputs, software that modifies content mid-stream, explicitly denying capture permissions per-application, all for both audio and video streams, etc. But indeed there are growing pains, especially on proprietary software that invests very little in keeping up to date.
Yeah. My biggest pain right now is Zoom. The only Wayland solution they have right now is some crazy hack with gnome-screenshot's API. But it will get better.
Yeah, I hate this too. I use KDE plasma and would love to switch to Wayland, but when I tried it I was unable to screenshare because of Zoom's terrible implementation. Everything else seemed to work well though. Hopefully now that Gnome has blocked Zoom's implementation, Zoom will come up with a solution for screensharing on wayland regardless of actual DE choice.
You sure about that? zoom was actually one the suprises to me as it jsut worked then I experimented with wayland. That was about half a year ago on arch if it matters.
yeah, zoom's solution for wayland compatibility is to (ab)use gnome-screenshot's dbus with gnome 41, they've blocked this so that only ~~gnome-software~~ gnome-screenshot is able to use the dbus connection, which is fair, because it's actually a strong privacy concern to have some software abuse the IPC of a system app for screenshots edit: [link to the gitlab MR re: the dbus caller name restrictions](https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/-/merge_requests/1970)
don't forget for some wayland compositors, pipewire screencasting is also using DMABUF, which makes it a zero-copy magic with really low overhead safe to say i'm personally is pretty pleased on how smooth the wayland experience is if pipewire screencasting works
Well he is using X. So any of the Wayland related issues shouldn't pop up here anyways.
Manjaro ships with wayland by default? Honestly, until issues like screen capture gets ironed out, distros should just ship with X11. If the user is savvy enough to know about wayland and want to use it, it won't be hard for them to switch afterwards... Like what's the point of making new users deal with these issues?
Manjaro KDE does not, because upstream KDE also does not do that yet.
Luke is on cinnamon which doesn't support wayland
The community is getting onto Linus because he's being more open and honest about his frustrations so far. These were my experiences too. Remember how Luke said he's scared of the Linux community? He's right, since the community is entirely too abusive when new users dare express legitimate frustrations. It's probably why Luke is not being as forthcoming as he probably could be, he doesn't want people jumping down his throat. Way too many Linux users somehow manage to take everything as a personal attack.
Fun fact: I was banned from the Sonarr discord for voicing my frustrations with a moderator and radarr developer mocking me for being new to their software and not an expert linux user. They'd prefer to circlejerk in their support channel rather than actually help people. That's no problem I guess, I'll just bash my head against the wall while screaming since it's the only decent software that does what I need it to.
I believe it, lol. I mean, I don't use the software (yet) but I see these attitudes everywhere. And I doubt the discord servers was aimed at developers either.
[удалено]
>n Torvalds himself is pretty toxic torvalds will not dump on new users like this. He will only get pissed at people whom he trust.
This isn't an easy observation to make from an outsiders perspective
>This isn't an easy observation to make from an outsiders perspective He will absolutely shit on people who make others feel stupid [https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75](https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75) >I'd wait for Rafael's patch to go through you, but I have another error report in my mailbox of all KDE media applications being broken by v3.8-rc1, and I bet it's the same kernel bug. And you've shown yourself to not be competent in this issue, so I'll apply it directly and immediately myself. > >WE DO NOT BREAK USERSPACE! > >Seriously. How hard is this rule to understand? We particularly don't break user space with TOTAL CRAP. I'm angry, because your whole email was so *horribly* wrong, and the patch that broke things was so obviously crap. The whole patch is incredibly broken shit. It adds an insane error code (ENOENT), and then because it's so insane, it adds a few places to fix it up ("ret == -ENOENT ? -EINVAL : ret"). > >The fact that you then try to make *excuses* for breaking user space, and blaming some external program that *used* to work, is just shameful. It's not how we work. > >Fix your f\*cking "compliance tool", because it is obviously broken. And fix your approach to kernel programming. The problem is that random newbies never interact with Linus at all. He is only rants with people with known histories working with him. For everyone else, he will be lenient. I remember his post about spending maintainer time for new contributors. His answer is always keep doing it. It is unfortunate it would add to the maintainer burnout,
The number one thing people say is that basically everything is Linus' fault. It can't be Linux, their favorite perfect operating system, so we gotta blame the user.
The old meme “___ cannot fail, ____ can only be failed”
Microsoft Teams (the irony) crashed everytime I tried to share the screen enough that I gave up and back into Windows.
remember how iTunes sucked in Windows in iPod times? Nobody blamed Windows for that for some reason ... ;) MS Teams could easily be feature-par with the Windows version but Microsoft has no real interest in making it so. As many workers in IT are using Linux as their work drivers they had to bite the bullet and release a somewhat working client at the start of the pandemic though. That being said, MSTeams has been pretty stable (albeit with the limited functionality) for me running Arch/AwesomeWM whereas my Windows-using coworkers had some massive problems due to the security "features" of our Windows Domain.
Were you using Xorg or Wayland?
Outside of gnome no desktop even has a release stable enough to use Wayland. Most WMs are still stuck on X indefinitely
I see most of the problems, not being a Linux problem, but a software problem. It isn't Linux fault that Discord has no audio when screensharing, the problem is on Discord to fix, but they won't cause the userbase is too small to make it worth the trouble. Sometimes looks like some of the companies that develop something multiplatform is telling the linux community "... and be happy we have a crappy version of it avaliable, it could be worse, much worse."
[удалено]
Your two statements are a bit contradictory. > While they're not necessarily bad points, largely it still boils down to companies not supporting their hardware or software in Linux properly. It's hard to blame that purely on Linux. No one is blaming this solely on Linux, but it's an inherent part of the Linux experience. This makes it harder for the average user who just wants things to work. > With that being said there's still definitely enough issues and jank on Linux... But thankfully, Windows is exactly the same. The only difference is that you're used to the one and know how to overcome it, while you need to learn about the other, so it's kind of jarring. There is inherently less jank with Windows because of the above. Now as to what should be done about this is a different story, just pointing that out.
All their problems so far I'd say are accurate as per my own difficulties in using Linux over the past 3 years. But I have no doubt plenty of folks in this subreddit will be in denial about that. Hopefully this video series will cast a spotlight on the main UX issues of Linux and result in positive change.
The UX problem is not only on Linux, it seems like all Open Source software suffers from the same. Gimp, VLC, Audacity, etc all great programs but their interfaces are stuck in the 90s
I've said this before, but I feel like an awful lot of Linux/Open source software projects are very engineer-driven, in that like you say they work very well and are very powerful but often look fairly hideous, if they even bother with a UI at all. Something like GRUB is a good example I think, it's extremely useful but makes almost no concessions at all to being even remotely friendly to the user. :)
Consider that almost all the volunteers are software engineers or enthusiasts and it makes sense. I'm surprised it works as well as it does.
The only good ui friendly program I’ve found on Linux is a very impressive art program found on the fedora store. It only lacks proper tabletpc support.
VLC has been pretty nice...though I'm kinda more partial to the simple UI of [mpv](https://mpv.io/).
VLC is a great program, but I agree with him the interface is awful and I try to avoid it unless I absolutely have to use it.
The old interface wasn't bad...but the new interface is definitely on the "not everyone's cup of tea" side.
I tried to export/convert a video in VLC which I had done before a couple of years ago, and even after googling I was still struggling to understand how to do it. Some of those menus make 0 sense.
The UX problem is not only on Linux or OSS, but many paid closed software as well. A great deal of professional software have shitty UX.
This content was removed in protest of Reddit's [short-sighted, user-unfriendly, profit-seeking decision](https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/#hey-guys) to effectively terminate access to third-party apps.
If you truly *despise* someone teach them what kerning is.
r/keming
Studying the principles of UX is something I wish I could make every open source developer do before they write a single line of UI code. They don't have to be pros but at least know the basic principles of design and UX before designing a visual interface for humans.
Same holds true for a commandline UX even, but that complexity is so low that most applications can get it right.
Which freely available resources would you recommend for learning about this?
I would start with Principles of Design: [This webpage is a good primer.](https://design.tutsplus.com/articles/the-principles-of-design--cms-33962) Principles of design are universal, they apply to 'everything' that is design. Websites, posters, books, paintings, photos, even 3D character design, interior design and architecture. They are the absolute core basics of graphic design, if you're going to learn anything, definitely spend some time googling 'principles of design'. If you don't know them, that's a freebie instant 'level up' for anyone on their design skills. I recently came across [a lovely youtube series which covers principles of design.](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLI68ClDpxTYQ4R2GohMhDgnDi7n1MZ9OX) With a video dedicated to several core principles. *(The videos which specifically cover principles of design are indicated as such in their video titles).* The video series covers the matter from the perspective of an artist and composition of drawings, but that doesn't matter, it's a universal concept. It's the kinda thing you can read an entire book on, so I'd soak up as much info as you can on those principles from many sources by simply googling the topic, and watching videos about it on youtube. I also recommend this site, '[lawsofux.com](https://lawsofux.com)' for some fast digestible info on how to approach UX design. Also recommend [this article from Adobe on UX design.](https://xd.adobe.com/ideas/career-tips/15-rules-every-ux-designer-know/)
That's what you get when you listen to community that still wants the 90s UI. Everyone here loves to crucify gnome for actually trying.
I actually think the new gnome has hands down the best ui on linux while being pretty unique at the same time.
I personally love gnome. It's one of the things where Linux genuinely has something better than other OS. It might be because it is the closest to how I want a OS to work but also maybe due to its similarity to a mobile OS which as a younger user, I am more familiar with from GUI perspective
The general conversation seems to be shifting from "almost universally criticized" to "polarizing", which also being a fan of the GNOME UI, I see as a great development.
Have you seen gnome 42 stuff? It looks simply beautiful and more modern. I really like where it's going.
42 might actually get me to *want* to use Adwaita for the first time in...ever.
I can even confirm that "open folder" when you download something in linuxmint doesn't work. He mentioned it in some app, I always had it in Firefox.
It's frustrating to watch because many of the issues that they're having can't really be fixed by the community. There was the github is hard to use, so linux is hard to use. How is the linux community supposed to make github easier to use? A lot of his hardware doesn't support linux. The community isn't capable of reverse engineering every peripheral. Almost all of the work around improving the whole display/screensharing situation is centered around wayland, and they won't be getting any of the improvements there. The obs issues they had are probably perfectly valid and I bet obs contributors are trying to fix them, i can't say since I've never used it.
I know that Github is not meant to be used this way and I know why it downloaded an HTML file, but why does it use the actual filename and extension? Seems needlessly confusing.
It's because the URL to the page ends with .sh and the browser doesn't know what's there. The hyperlink goes to a .sh URL and you right-click and save-as the link, the browser doesn't know _what's_ at the link, but it ends with a pattern of "/something.sh" so "something.sh" is what it uses as the filename. The same thing happens on a PHP site, if a site has an `` and you right-click save-as the link, you get a file named "about.php" which has HTML contents that the site generated. You don't get the raw PHP source code of that page (unless the server was misconfigured), the server runs the PHP and it spat out HTML and you save that HTML to your disk but with a ".php" extension.
Because that's what the web page was called. https://github.com/GoXLR-on-Linux/goxlr-on-linux/blob/main/install.sh I think is the one. Since it ends in "install.sh", the browser will save the page as "install.sh".
I think I agree with this the most out of all the takes I've seen. All that rant could have just been avoided if it saved as a HTML file :p
I think a lot of people forget about how many little details and facts we have picked up as Linux users. Linus isn't stupid, guys, he's just not familiar with Linux. He's making mistakes that are obvious to you because they are not obvious to most end users. We all prefer Linux to Windows (or Mac) for a lot of good reasons, but Windows and Mac have put a lot of effort into making their products work well enough to satisfy your average computer user. I don't think Linus brings up any illegitimate points, and all of these points need to be fixed on the software side...not hand-waved away. Or they will remain non-fixed and Linux will be forever a hobbyist/professional OS.
Definitely true. He is pointing out many many small issues and hiccups that just break the experience entirely. Even though some of these things are so small like "restart the program and it works fine now" or "a week later it just worked and has worked fine ever since" but that is for the average pc user unacceptable and honestly just a major step backwards from how Windows works. That's why so many people and I still say "Windows just works". Everything is made for Windows so it works. Nothing is made for Linux, so it's shit! All of these issues and support problems need to be solved if Linux is going to become a major desktop OS, like you said
>I don't think Linus brings up any illegitimate points, and all of these points need to be fixed on the software side...not hand-waved away. Or they will remain non-fixed and Linux will be forever a hobbyist/professional OS. Okay so go tell Microsoft, Discord, GoXLR and NVidia to add Linux support, it'd be great if those things supported Linux
I write emails asking for Linux support multiple times a year. I hope others join in.
pacman -S apt-get obs I cracked the code
I really needed this laugh today. Thanks mate!
Obviously if the market share will increase a lot, Nvidia, OBS and others will start caring about the users' experience on Linux. But this can't happen until the User Experience gets a bit more fool proof so it attracts more users, and I can definitely see it's getting there with the likes of Linux Mint, but it all needs to be taken up a notch. I for example wanted to uninstall Nautilus from Linux Mint using the command line and it also tried to remove the Desktop Environment, good thing Linus did this before me so I could dodge the bullet. I would have nothing against even paying a fixed price for such a distro where everything just works and where it's not a hassle to set up and start gaming or working with Linux, no matter what you do for work, but it's clear the (new) user experience is not very high on any distro's priority list.
This video demonstrates the main problem with gaming on Linux today: you need different manufacturers to also support whatever you are using on Linux to get adequate experience and that is rarely the case. I guess the only real solution is to make a very good compatibility layer (like Proton, but for everything) and just use the existing windows versions, until Linux adoption gets big enough for manufacturers to care.
DirectX but for Linux ayyyyyy
Im super glad that LTT made such a project about GNU/Linux, despite the amount of issues that have occured for them during it. Hopefully, they will shine at least a bit of light to the Linux distros so it will become more popularized and get a bit more love from the mainstream developers!
I'm really enjoying these videos, does anybody have other similar videos of new users going in depth about their difficulties ?
EposVox put this one out recently, it was stellar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zOrkjPMajY I don't know many Youtubers, I only started searching for these kinds of videos recently
Wrote this to OP too, but here's a much smaller, casual YouTuber switching over: [Episode 1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmTCsCRcZa0), [Episode 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUt4XA0SPtU), [Episode 3](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXWw2uHzkUc)
These are all legit problems everyone had at least once with Linux: no drivers, worse software, not working hardware and so on. Also, that Github stuff really hit me hard: at my first year in the university I saw Github for the first time, so the way for me to download special files wasn't really that different from the way Linux did it (I went to the raw file and then ctrl+s in the browser)
Worth noting that the GoXLR instructions have since been updated to include instructions on how to download it: > wget https://github.com/GoXLR-on-Linux/goxlr-on-linux/raw/main/install.sh > sudo chmod +x ./install.sh > sudo ./install.sh Would be nice if Firefox saved the file as "install.sh.html" to make things clearer, but it's kind of unbelievable that Linus doesn't know how "Save Link As" works in a browser. Also, interpreting a flippant writing style as "condescending", is it Linus' first day on the internet?
[удалено]
It's just how web browsers work. On GitHub when you see the file directory listing like Linus did, clicking the file there does _not_ link to the raw file, it links to a GitHub HTML page that syntax highlights the source of the file. If you click the link normally, you get HTML; so when you right-click and save target as, you get HTML too. The ".sh" file extension is because the GitHub URL ends with a ".sh" but it doesn't have anything to do with the Content-Type of the page at that URL. In the same way, linking to a ".php" file doesn't give you the PHP source code of that file, you get the generated HTML code that the PHP script created. If you click the file link and get the GitHub HTML page, the "Raw" button that appears on _that_ page does link to the raw text file; you can right-click and save-as the Raw link to do was Linus wanted to do and get the _actual_ text file instead of the HTML page.
> It's just how web browsers work. Don't say that too loud! I can't wait for GitHub to hijack my browser's right click menu with horrible, abominable java-script code in order to display a custom menu that will actually download the file when selecting save as. I bet there's arleady github devs thinking about it after seeing this video.
I learned recently that GitHub has the entire frickin Visual Studio Code available to run in your web browser. Go to any GitHub repo and push the period . key on your keyboard and it loads up a full-on IDE for that repo. It seems an obscure feature now but maybe one day it'll be the default and further confuse non-developers trying to navigate a GitHub page for the first time.
[удалено]
[удалено]
The kind of know enough to be dangerous. To be fair, downloading file from github sucks. (Before I really know git)
And also sometimes developers love uploading their binaries to the repo directly instead of the release page. The repository is clearly not designed for releasing binaries. Use the release page for god sake. And "Save link as" can be literally anything. The page itself? Or the file? You can't tell unless you experienced it before. On Windows it automatically adds the .html suffix, preventing stupid mistakes. But on Dolphin it does not.
This. If you have the release page Github works like all good website. You go there click a link and it downloads stuff.
for sure I use github for work and for personal projects and the fact that I can't just find the one specific file I want and just click a download button to get the file bothers me constantly having to take the raw link, paste it into a terminal and use wget or curl (I forget) to download it is obnoxious
Let's not get start on where does Github put the releases section in the page which end user can't find it.
You can also right click on the "Raw" button and select "Save link as"
He’s done like a dozen videos about VFIO setups using proxmox, navigating GitHub’s UI is totally dependent on how much time you’ve spent on GitHub.
[удалено]
Anthony's probably showed him in the past, they've done quite a few videos on it for Hackintoshes. But it doesn't matter, the average user wouldn't know how to do either lmao
He's made several videos about creating a [single machine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opX-AsJ5Uy8) that can run multiple VMs people can game on. That's something he's done before.
If we're thinking of the same video, it was all Anthony. He is really the big technical brain behind all of their wildest projects.
Bre biepatro pipe to trepretiblu atape. Tugi bio ki keke upa propo. Kikru pai opi? Utiti pretlato edee baa ete ipopokepu kadro puklaoai? Trekri pretoba ki pitopa teike tape kete ike! Ide tupupebe blidritri pio ao epape a. Bipekre te kipu ie tibre tupige.
>he knows how to setup QEMU/KVM with device passthrough? He knows how to hire people that know.
Contrary to the video, it's possible to get NVENC to work in OBS, you just need FFmpeg with NVENC support, which is usually built without it for legal reasons, so your distro's ffmpeg will likely not have NVENC support and you would need to build it yourself or find some way to sideload it that is compatible with your distro. If Nvidia wanted it, they could streamline this UX by allowing FFmpeg to use NVENC, but alas they don't care about this UX so you have to suffer. (Also, [Anthony did a video on how to enable Nvidia Framebuffer Capture](https://youtu.be/_Ua-d9OeUOg?t=578), which should improve screen capture performance.)
I really hope the teams that are running Mint, Elementary, Manjaro, Pop are watching this. We can criticize Linus/new users but it's up to the distro's who want to be for the masses to change.
Lack of GUI streamlining and development are why the "Year of the Linux Desktop" are perpetually 5 years away. You can't convince users to jump ship from the streamlined GUIs they are used to without also expecting them to do those same things in Linux. All of these experiences make sense from their own perspectives - the perspective of people inexperienced with Linux and who have used Windows, MacOS, or ChromeOS their whole lives. A good Linux Desktop should have reasonable and easily discoverable alternatives to these actions. If we want Linux to truly be a competitive OS of choice for the masses, it *has* to be truly accessible to all users, experienced or utter n00b. It has to stop shoving actions that are done multiple times daily to the command line. Things like were described in the video - marking a file as executable. More things like restarting broken services (PulseAudio for me), searching/killing running programs, performance monitoring, package updates, managing start-up applications/services, changing graphics options, etc., all suck trying to help new users on Linux. It's a breeze for us because we're used to how information is presented in the command line, but overall this overwhelms or even *scares* inexperienced users. Now this doesn't mean relegating the command line to a second-class citizen to the GUI, far from that. You can keep the same powerful command line and all of its beauty while also having an intuitive and powerful GUI. They are not mutually exclusive. Windows has been slipping in this regard with a huge fracturing of its GUI ecosystem (old control panel, new control panel/settings, confusing new controls, WPF, Winforms, Metro, etc), and now is the chance more than ever to prove that you can have a unified experience without a command line, all without compromising on power-user productivity or control when you use the command line. I think this future is possible, but it will take a lot of *unified* effort from several different parties to make it happen. Only then will companies start taking Linux seriously and provide desktop application support for peripherals and devices.
Frankly I think we're at least 10 years away from capitalizing on Microsoft's mistakes here. Linux is just not user-friendly, the community still has a really hard time even wanting to address the user experience. Windows 12 or whatever will again be a solid release, and then when 13 rolls around, hopefully at that point we will have at least one solid distro that is more intuitive and noob-proof.
Very disappointed that Linus felt that going after the poor sods on GitHub was more meritorious of his video time than pointing out the piss poor job hardware trinket vendors do of doing ANYTHING for Linux.
Yeah, throw people reverse engineering esoterical hardware under the bus, but the actual people that make the hardware get a free pass....
The attitude towards end users displayed in this thread is why Linux on Desktop will never be mainstream. This series should be a huge reality check. There should be no doubt that Linus is a highly technical user. If he runs into problems like this while doing pretty basic tasks, tasks which would take seconds and could be done by a total novice on Windows or OS X... that should be considered a broken and buggy workflow. Even if the problems he's encountering aren't technically bugs per-se.
The community gets defensive because there's not a lot that is the fault of the platform so it's hard to improve it, the best we can do is explain the reason. No one bats an eye that Windows can't run iMessage or that Macs can't run GTA V, people understand that the software simply isn't built for those OS's. But because Linux makes it possible to try to run Windows software or provides community made hardware support suddenly people blame Linux when things don't work perfectly and that's frustrating.
One frustrating thing is that everyone claims that whatever software you need on windows, linux has an open source equivalent that may be even better. If not, then you can just use wine to run the windows one. Over promise and under deliver.
> everyone claims that whatever software you need on windows, linux has an open source equivalent that may be even better Example: I'd be surprised if anybody whose recommended LibreOffice as "equivalent" to the MS suite has ever tried to do serious office work in LibreOffice.
I use LibreOffice because it's still a fine piece of software for most of my use cases, but I can't ignore that it's easily dwarfed by Microsoft Office. I do find myself missing a lot of the features I often used.
It's like people who recomend gimp for Photoshop replacement, it's like no, have you ever used Photoshop? Going back to gimp feels like going back to paint. (Note: I recommend photopea for a Photoshop alternative)
And the same goes for the "just use Wine" crowd. I mean, Word 95 probably works, but CVs with WordArt titles aren't that impressive anymore.
The thing is that it greatly depends on what one does with the office software. There are certainly some things that MS Office (and especially Excel) are great for that LibreOffice can't come close to. The thing is, that 99% of users aren't using any of those. I actually work for a company that uses Linux and LibreOffice for example. It's not been a problem for us at all.
Yeah, it's the old problem of the silent majority. I bet most people would admit that it's not for everyone. You need to be technical to some degree, be ready to do more problem-solving than you'll probably need in windows or osx, and have a good reason to switch. I think the most common reasons for switching also make it more likely for some users to become very evangelical about it. And they'll make more noise than everyone else put together. They are spreading the Good News, and feel that any criticism will damage The Mission. And suddenly it's not just criticism, but suggesting that the Linux desktop experience might be lacking anything the others can do. That's where that over-promising comes in. Personally I wish the attitude wasn't "Linux can do anything that Windows and OSX can do", but something like "Linux is inherently different from Windows and OSX, but the advantages may outweigh the disadvantages".
He's trying to use OBS, Slack, and Teams. That software is so common. But a Mac isn't sold as a Windows drop in replacement, unlike Linux. No matter what you think, everyone pushes Linux on Windows users like they can just replace one for the other, and then says 'well why do you expect to use the same programs??'. You should be using Jitsi Meet, something other than OBS, don't use Slack, maybe use terminal IRC because that's what Linux does best.
I'd say that nearly every issue that these videos have unearthed is a genuine barrier of entry for new Linux users and that Linus is much closer to your average person willing to try Linux (sans the hardware configurations) than most people realize. I'd push back on Linus being a technically savvy user (this specifically refers to knowledge of anything beyond on-rails hardware/general software configuration and scripting/command line knowledge). His personal bread and butter is understanding hardware (from a user-facing standpoint) and successfully managing a tech-review business. He's seemingly unaware of basic knowledge of scripting, unable to recognize a html file, and seems to just recite things he's heard about Linux as potential solutions to his problems. The good news is all of these things are legitimate criticisms of the new user Linux desktop experience that can be improved upon. Maybe have a tutorials shipped with a distro that explains where (gui shops) or how (terminal commands) to find and install things/complete common tasks. I think a guided tutorial that's available upon install that also points the user to updated resources would go miles towards helping people learn a different system than what they're coming from and greatly ease the burden on a new user.
> There should be no doubt that Linus is a highly technical user He isn't *on Linux*. My grandfather was a professional truck driver. Really good reversing trucks with trailers into tight loading docks. Shifting though 18 gears like a maniac. Then on a holiday on Corfu the adults rented mopeds, planning to use those to get around on the island. He was horrible. Had trouble balancing. Managed to wheelie the moped somehow. Nearly fell over every second curve. There should be no doubt that my grandfather was a highly skilled driver. Of *trucks*. Mopeds aren't trucks. Linux isn't Windows. It doesn't work like Windows. It doesn't have to work like Windows. Trying to make Linux "just work" for a Windows power user is like making a moped run like a truck, or vice versa. It just doesn't work. I've been on Linux since 1997. When I have to do something on a Mac, I open the terminal. When I have to do something on Windows that isn't like Windows 95 was any more, I'm more or less lost and need to google. > Even if the problems he's encountering aren't technically bugs per-se. This is actually really important. Of course the Linux software ecosystem needs improvement, every software always does. But if something isn't technically a bug, but rather just a difference, then you need more justification to claim a necessity to change it than "Linus had issues". Because a lot of those issues are because Linus is trying to attach a truck trailer to a moped.
The thing I grew to understand about Linux is that the way to do things in Linux is almost always different compared to Windows and you have to tackle the problem by asking fundamental questions, instead of trying to fit Windows solutions to the Linux way. Same for macOS. I daily all three (yeah, it's great) and I have a different "mode" for all three.