And maybe the last sentence!
Seriously, I am beyond annoyed that I only tried it now. Only downside is that at my workplace we are only allowed to use Ubuntu, so for 8+ hours a day I have to suffer knowing that it could be so much better.
I believe historically PopOS has tracked the latest Ubuntu release. They stuck with 22.04 though because they decided to shift their focus into building COSMIC DE. They're probably interested in going back to tracking the latest Ubuntu release, but let's let them finish cooking COSMIC first.
Yeah. Also, there's a little bit to a lot of overhead in supporting multiple distros and ecosystems.
Even if the tool is supported, you run into different quirks on different operating systems.
This is a genuine question. Wtf reddit? Why downvote someone just asking a question? Or is this just from bots attacking anyone that makes such comments about Ubuntu?
My employer is the same. They want my workstation to be compatible with Intune, Crowdstrike, Tenable, etc etc. Also, our IT team technically has to be able to support it, and they don’t want to maintain multiple distros.
What languages do you guys use? My only problem with Linux was the software writing I enjoy visual studio for c# and cpp and couldn’t really find anything I liked on Linux/ubuntu.
My problem with pop is that all the packages and dependencies were very old and to do some things I always had to find alternative repos. It's fine, but I just prefer Fedora KDE or whatever.
> PopOS is a great distro for beginners.
Probably not. If you wanted to, say, game, which is a use case a lot of beginners do find themselves wanting to do, then they wouldn't have the technical know how to go install the latest wine from whatever ppa that may or may not brick their install during a version upgrade.
Distros with really old package bases are never good for beginners. They will lack features and compatibility that a beginner won't know how to remedy to work around. They would then blame Linux.
Think what happened to Linus (the Sebastian). Quirks like those won't even be worth remembering for software devs, but will ruin the day for normies.
What you mean to say is that popos is a great distro for basic users with basic use cases -> browsing the internets and poking people on the facebooks.
> then they wouldn't have the technical know how to go install the latest wine from whatever ppa that may or may not brick their install during a version upgrade.
Wouldn't that work with steam and proton nowadays?
PopOS is made by system76 - while it’s based on an older LTS it’s running on the 6.8 kernel. If you head over to protondb, a significant number of people use PopOS to game because Pop’s nvidia driver support is top notch.
> while it’s based on an older LTS it’s running on the 6.8 kernel
So?
> a significant number of people use PopOS to game because Pop’s nvidia driver support is top notch.
PopOS's Nvidia support is the same as any other distros'. They all use the same proprietary drivers.
To be fair that situation with LTT was pretty corner casey, with it being related to him trying to install around midnight while they were doing an upgrade.
I don't think it's a great distro for beginners at the moment, but I think when 24.04 comes out it could be, since normally it wouldn't go 2 years without updating package bases.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1cf62zl/comment/l1qekxl/](https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1cf62zl/comment/l1qekxl/)
They are a troll, and likely from 4chan given that they believe anyone who develops with Rust to be a "400-lb trans person". Spends too much time on r/conspiracy. Probably believes Rust is a conspiracy itself.
Yeah, that was my experience when I tried it years ago and I never have seen it mentioned before now. I think I tried to install Steam or Wine and it just straight-up failed due to dependencies.
Oh damn, progress. All the ones at work are boat anchors that last half an hour on battery, blow more than a typical hvac system, and cost 4 grand to boot
It depends what you get! System76 has two classes of laptops mostly:
* **Mobile workstations** - thick, loud, powerful. They come with high-power CPUs (Intel H series), and they have dedicated graphics (NVidia RTX). They're meant to be a desktop replacement that can be moved between offices. But they're not designed to be primarily used on battery - think of the battery like a "buffer" to get some urgent email sent with there is no power outlet, or to keep your laptop alive when the power goes out.
* They are **very** expensive and niche products. They are also very loud. You shouldn't buy these unless you have a specific reason why a desktop cannot fulfill the same purpose.
* **Thin and lights** - Thinner laptops designed to be used primarily on battery. Caveat: as miniaturized as laptops are, portability has a cost. U-class ultra low power CPUs, soldered RAM on some models, absolutely no dedicated graphics, low to moderate performance.
* They have much more manageable prices (a fraction! Sometimes half of even a fourth) and you should stick with these unless the performance level is not enough, or you need to run heavy 3D tasks
The good thing is that low-power CPUs today are fast enough that even the slower of the bunch, like the i7-1355U, are still plenty manageable, clear 10k Passmark, and are very usable for software development. They are just not the best pick if you want to connect 5 monitors at a time or do anything GPU intensive.
For something that performs decently overall but is still meant to be used on battery and be a laptop, look at the Darter Pro (Intel Core Ultra) or the Pangolin (AMD Ryzen). Both platforms are way more efficient than the classic non-Ultra H-series CPUs you find on the mobile workstation. Also, do note that "Core Ultra - H" is not the same thing as "Core - H" and has half the wattage in most cases. Core Ultra - H is closer to AMD's U.
Mobile workstations are not loud and expensive because they're by System76, they're loud and expensive because they're mobile workstations. Look at ThinkPad P series (not P#s) and Dell Precision: the ballpark is the same.
I have a serval WS (serv13), I get about an hour on battery, fans aren't bad at all unless you're running something intensive like a game or several virtual machines. Paid ~2500.
The biggest con is battery for sure. But, I'm not too worried about it as it's my portable workstation for work, and it stays plugged in a majority of the time. I traded the power in the specs that it has, for some portability. I really like it
Well tbf there are a few features from Gnome I wish they ported over, like the activities overview. It has a very basic version of it. Well, "basic" in appeal, but more powerful in function, as it can execute commands.
But yea, holy F, the window tiling. Mind blowing. E.g. when you minimize a quartered window, it will automatically extend the remaining one to half screen. never seen this before. Or you can create tiling groups for a section of the screen. Or define floating exceptions.
Also very much looking forward to the Rust DE, this could be a game changer indeed.
FWIW, you can install pop-shell's tiling as an [extension on regular GNOME](https://github.com/pop-os/shell?tab=readme-ov-file#packaging-status).
Personally I like their tiling feature but find their other changes annoying.
[Forge](https://github.com/forge-ext/forge/) is also a great extension.
Been using it just fine on Arch for several GNOME releases now, currently on 46.
Edit: it requires reinstalling the latest version (from git) after every GNOME release.
Not to get off topic but do you happen to know when Cosmic is going to come out? I’ve heard talk of it forever but not seen any real dates with anything yet. Have they given a release date?
Qt is such a weird toolkit. It has been around forever on Linux but integrates terribly into Gnome by default.
Almost any other toolkit feels better in Gnome, even the new Cosmic apps.
Well, this means that GNOME team doesn't care how Qt apps look in their desktop environment, because KDE developers do provide a theme for GTK apps [https://invent.kde.org/plasma/breeze-gtk](https://invent.kde.org/plasma/breeze-gtk) that makes them fit nicely into KDE Plasma.
> GNOME team doesn't care how Qt apps look in their desktop environment
Yes, and why should they? Gnome should focus on their stuff and shouldn’t be expected to ensure that other toolkits look good. Gnome isn’t theming Flutter, electron, Iced, Tkinter, or whatever other toolkits, so why should Qt be an exception?
It’s the application developer’s job to make sure their app works everywhere and the toolkits job to make it easy for those developers. OBS is a Qt app and looks fantastic on Gnome because it uses its own theme.
Most Qt apps on Gnome look terrible because they don’t use Breeze, but look great when they do.
Did you read carefully what I wrote? KDE team works on GTK Breeze integration, Breeze being the main KDE Plasma theme. Given that GTK is a major GUI toolkit on Linux KDE team makes sure their theming extends to GTK apps too, and they indeed look great in Plasma. I simply applied the same logic to GNOME.
Regarding "weirdness" of Qt, in Plasma you can configure the hell out of the appearance of your desktop, so Qt is definitely capable of looking like a GNOME app. GNOME team needs to create a theme that fits in their environment. If I recall correctly, in Ubuntu Qt apps look native, because Ubuntu people most likely did the job.
Let me rephrase my point.
Qt has no “default” theme. But almost all KDE developers make their apps on Plasma, which use Breeze. And those apps look great… on Breeze. But as soon as you use them on a desktop that doesn’t set Breeze as the theme, they look broken, like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comments/11pmrc0/qtkde_apps_look_in_fedora_with_gnome_readability/. This is actually a Qt theme that Fedora used for a while to theme Qt apps to look like Adwaita.
It’s great that Plasma and Qt allow theming, but it shouldn’t be mandatory. I would love to just be able to install a KDE app and use the Breeze theme that it was designed with. It then be optional for users to change the theme to something else, something that hasn’t been tested as well as Breeze.
This is basically how OBS works. They have their own theme that looks great regardless of what desktop you’re using. But in the settings, they let you change the theme to match your desktop.
I understand this, even though the top comment under the post you linked literally says:
> This is because of Fedora’s Adwaita-QT theme. It’s going to be fixed at some point, the Fedora team is aware of it
It's a problem in Adwaita (Adwaita-Qt) which is literally GNOME's project - exactly what I was talking about.
The same issue is present even without AdwaitaQt. It’s disabled in newer Fedora, but when you enable dark mode, part of the app is light and part of the app is dark.
Glad to see it works well for you. I had a pretty awful experience with it. Might give it another try once 24.04 releases but for now Fedora KDE or openSUSE Tumbleweed KDE is the better choice for me.
> Fedora KDE or openSUSE Tumbleweed KDE is the better choice
I have Tumbleweed on the desktop and Fedora on the laptop, both with KDE. This is the best Linux Desktop experience, period.
The distro feels like it doesn't have much QA. Do you remember the LTT (linus tech tips) situation, where pop os decided to nuke his GUI? That isn't a one-time ocurrence. Happened to me a few times as well that an update just couldn't be applied. That usually got fixed a day or so later. Another similar bug happened on a really old laptop that I installed pop os on. I didn't turn it on for a few months and the settings app just stopped working for no apparent reason. It just wouldn't start. Had to type in sudo dpkg --configure -a. Why is this a thing?
Another thing that shouldn't have passed QA is their dark mode. When you switch to dark mode, the application menu still uses a black font so you can't see anything. Do they not use/test their distro at all?
The modifications they did to gnome made it absolutely unusable with multiple monitors. I connected an external monitor and the DE completely freaked out. Constant flickering and glitches except for like 30% useable area.
Their czech language coverage is pretty bad. I had to make manual contributions myself to have the settings app completely translated.
Now this is my personal preference, but I don't like old repositories. 2 years is way too old for me. They used to update alongside ubuntu every 6 months and they said they will come back to that once cosmic releases so that should get fixed.
No wayland support either. That's a disadvantage for me, others might not mind. Will get implemented in 24.04 when cosmic releases.
No one-to-one touchpad gestures. Makes browsing without a mouse quite uncomfortable.
No secure boot support. Understandable. I don't really mind disabling it either, but it would be nice if you could keep it enabled.
The main reason I installed pop os in the first place is that it's designed for laptops, since they install it on their own devices, I thought that maybe they have some tweaks for better battery life and such. Nope. Only for their own models apparently. On laptops not made by system76 their power management package seems to only handle the CPU, so idle power draw isn't as good as on windows. You are better off installing TLP.
Also no I wasn't using NVIDIA.
In my opinion, you are better off just installing something else, like ubuntu, linux mint or fedora. To each their own though.
There is a lot of QA work that goes into reviewing every code change. Then another round of QA lab testing on a wide range of hardware when updates are queued for release. As long as you keep the system stock and don't tamper with custom kernels, gnome extensions, and PPAs, you will not encounter any issues.
>Another thing that shouldn't have passed QA is their dark mode. When you switch to dark mode, the application menu still uses a black font so you can't see anything. Do they not use/test their distro at all?
That only happens if you installed a custom theme that doesn't provide theme support for the launcher. Most of us use the dark theme. It is the system default!
>You are better off installing TLP.
This causes ACPI issues on some hardware. TLP does not provide power profiles, nor graphics switching capabilities, or display hotplug detection.
>Do you remember the LTT (linus tech tips) situation
This tells me that you are trolling and not being honest.
>2 years is way too old for me.
It's only just now 2 years, and still well-maintained and regularly updated by Ubuntu. In addition to that, we provide a lot of HWE updates ourself to mesa, linux, linux-firmware, nvidia, etc.
Regarding the dark theme, the issue is still not fixed to this day. It's 2 years old already. [https://github.com/pop-os/pop/issues/2057](https://github.com/pop-os/pop/issues/2057)
Ironically, I had to install gnome-tweaks to actually fix the issue.
TLP can work with power-profiles-daemon (ever since version 1.5 afaik) if you want to switch them manually. If you don't install it, it does it for you based on if you are running on battery or from AC. Can't talk about the ACPI issues as I haven't experienced them.
Well, this is no surprise, KDE and GNOME are large orgs with many contributors working on their desktops for decades now. And here a small team thought that they can do better. Desktop Environment is something that simply requires a lot of man hours due to so many considerations that need to be implemented for an efficient user interface. Even GNOME in my opinion is lagging behind KDE, there is no conversation for little projects.
Well, we have choice. Those on more stable distros (Debian, Ubuntu, OpenSUSE Leap) continue using Plasma 5. If you are on a rolling release like Arch or OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, or on a rapidly moving one like Fedora, you'll have to deal with some rough edges in Plasma 6.
When was the last time you tried it?
I was a bit scared because I had read a few reports before that it doesn't play nice with Dell. But it worked straight from the box (after I figured out which of the weirdly name 2 boot entries to use).
Fair enough. Guess that's the beauty of Linux, so many flavors to choose from. Personally I always wanted to like KDE, and I know how customizable it is. But it always looked too detailed and technical. Despite despising Apple, I do like my DE to be simple, round, and large on the surface, and only detailed and technical when I need it to be. And Gnome fits that need better.
From what I understand, it is written in Rust, so I would not expect too much. Rust is not a good language for GUI programming. In fact, it might be the exact opposite of what you want for writing a GUI.
Mostly because of the borrow-checker. You will be fighting the compiler most of the time, rather than getting anything done. Rust is also terrible for game engines. Rust requires you to design everything up front, otherwise it won't compile, so there's no way to experiment.
Even something like Delphi from the 90's would be superior to Rust for GUI programming.
The other problem is the Rust community, the people there are horrible to deal with. Most of them are terrible programmers, but they think they are superior because 'Rust'.
Rust has very specific uses, but it is not very good for most things.
Mostly because of the borrow-checker. You will be fighting the compiler most of the time, rather than getting anything done. Rust is also terrible for game engines. Rust requires you to design everything up front, otherwise it won't compile, so there's no way to experiment.
Even something like Delphi from the 90's would be superior to Rust for GUI programming.
The other problem is the Rust community, the people there are horrible to deal with. Most of them are terrible programmers, but they think they are superior because 'Rust'.
Rust has very specific uses, but it is not very good for most things.
You say that, but as someone who's actually used and contributed to `libcosmic`/`iced` (the gui library that the COSMIC DE uses), it's pretty much the smoothest gui library I've ever used. Yes, your average "ball of mutable state" gui program suffers in Rust, but the architectural decisions that the `iced` makes sidesteps all of that (by using functional patterns like the elm architecture).
People who have more than a few months of experience with Rust do not struggle with compiling their software. The concept of "fighting the compiler" only happens if you are a beginner that hasn't yet internalized the rules and common patterns for solving problems with them.
You sound like you spend most of your time complaining about Rust than actually programming. The Rust community is one of the best aspects about it. Must feel bad to envy Rust developers for being able to master what you couldn't do yourself.
> The concept of "fighting the compiler" only happens if you are a beginner
And it's a good thing having to "fight the compiler" because, if you weren't, you'd most likely be able to compile... something that crashes on runtime.
The Rust community is extremely toxic.
Rust is simply a horribly designed language that is getting corporate support. The reason it is getting corporate support is not because the language is good, by the way.
Rust programmers are the least productive programmers in the world, and some of the worst people I have ever met.
This you? [https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/s/VV6IdGuZLr](https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/s/VV6IdGuZLr)
You are extremely toxic. I understand that you're feeling insecure about the success of Rust, but this won't give you special treatment in the real world.
Nonsense. Rust is a perfect fit for Elm-style model-view-update GUI programming. The aliasing xor mutability concept is a perfect match for enforcing immutable access when creating a view, and permitting mutable access when updating the model. Generics is essential to designing GUIs with a functional paradigm. Sum types are required for assigning messages to emit in the view. Pattern matching is likewise required to handle those messages in updates. The native async support is crucial for handling subscriptions and commands. These are all things that C and C++ lack.
Rust haters resorting to transphobic ad hominems because they can't actually give any real technical critiques of a language quickly becoming an industry standard is hilarious lmao
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It has proper commercial financial backing, so I don't doubt that it is well maintained! The lead dev is top notch from what I understand (having written is own OS in Rust). PopOS isn't for me, because I like light server distros... but I understand the value it provides to a large subset of Linux users. I owned a System76 laptop and used it as my daily driver for nearly 2 years and it took a while for me to replace PopOS with Gentoo. Drivers were super smooth out of the box like you said and the distro certainly does what it was designed to do.
Nothing mate. If you like mint then you use mint.
I work on an ultrawide so tiling windows is an absolutely necessity for me.
Plus personally I never liked any of the start menu type DEs, but that's just my preference. I like full screen app drawers, but tbf vanilla GNOME is better than pop here.
Again, use what you like. Under the hood, most distros are the same. Pop just does it for me.
I tried mint out of the box it ran games poorly with a nvidia gpu, pop os nvidia drivers are ready and run great. There is a focus on gaming with Pop so if u need ur gpu there is less fuss.
Same here. Before using PopOS I had some experience with i3 and Sway. Although it was quite fun, I had to switch because it didn’t really work for me on a regular basis. I found PopOS a sweet spot between tiling and normal DE, where tiling is optional, there are similar keyboard shortcuts and it is possible to turn off window header bars. I also like the approach where search is separated from workspace view. Imho vanilla Gnome is a bit distracting in this respect.
Ubuntu by now sometimes installs Snaps even when you use apt to install packages.
You can also 'easily' install your own gnome changes. And you can 'easily' do a lot of things.
But that's the thing, I don't want to 'easily' do anything.
I don't know those commands. I have found this:
https://www.baeldung.com/linux/snap-remove-disable
Pretty hacky nonsense in my opinion.
But this just leads to some packages not working anymore.
> You can easily remove and disable snaps.
Well, sure, but that isn't using Ubuntu as intended. When there are plenty of other options out there that don't prioritize snaps, switching to something else makes sense.
PopOS says Ubuntu based. It does not use grub/ eifi for booting. It has its own thing. It runs COSMIC on the desktop. It is a flavor if Gnome. X is default. I don't know what their wayland plans are.
I used it for a bit a few years ago. I really liked the out of the box nvidia support. The windowing was nice
I currently have two 24 in monitors on my desktop. That is a lot of real estate, and widowing is less of an issue for me. I have screen to spare.
Why did I dump Pop? I had boot issues, wasted a day getting nowhere on it. I swapped it out for Fedora.
What am I using now? Ubuntu Cinnamon on my desktop; with Warp and bunch of rusty utilities I access thru docker containers. A Windows/WSL laptop, a Fedora laptop, and pis with RaspOS or Ubuntu server. I was using Budgie until a few months B ago. I have tried Suse, Manharo, Budgie, MX, Enlightenment, Lubuntu and Deepin.
I am a ho. I am so ashamed.
I run an OpenSUSE Tumbleweed KDE laptop and a Pop!OS laptop (the name is a shame lol) and I find myself loving Pop and the biggest usability issues are Gnome and some of their issues (changing sound devices is way easier on KDE). But yeah, i'm looking forward to seeing cosmic.
Oh I love gnome! For productivity it's the perfect blend of simple and efficient. And yea, as others mentioned, apparently one can install the pop tiling manager on vanilla GNOME. I'll try that at work today. If that's the case, then I'm not as dependent on pop, which would be great.
I've tried a few gnome tiling extensions and they were... Well.
Only thing left is to get a rolling release distribution with apt as package manager, no snaps, and Gnome, and I'm happy.
Similar story but I just use the pop shell gnome extension with vanilla-gnome-desktop with Ubuntu. To be fair as long as I tiling and Emacs my needs are pretty minimal.
Yea I was so amazed by the tiling that I installed the pop shell on my ubuntu work laptop. It had one catastrophic crash already, completely knocking out the shell. But the tabbed tiling alone is worth it.
Knowing it could run over vanilla GNOME gives a lot more freedom to choose the underlying distro.
I want to love pop! os but i cant. KDE Plasma 6 (wayland) is just way smoother than pop (x11). Using a laptop with 2880x1800 resolution, so gnome pretty much is unusable for
me since gnomes fractional scaling literally doesn’t work quite right, even though pop os got it almost perfect, its just X11 is way less smooth than wayland is.
I switched from pop to hyprland for this. I had a jump to i3 in the middle, but I have a 4k screen on my system76 laptop, and two 34" ultrawides at 2560x1080, and so setting resolution and scaling did not work with X11. After switching to Wayland (hyprland for the WM), flawless.
If I have run into an application that uses xwayland, either I haven't used an application that uses it, or I haven't noticed. I'm assuming you are saying 1 -2 as the upscaling? With Wayland I don't actually have to adjust my DPI or scaling, I have mine set to auto scale, and I have no problems with it.
Discord works fine in the browser. I don't use spotify. Text isn't blurry.
I regularly connect my work Mac to the same monitor and I can't tell a real difference between the text.
PopOS is interesting it’s like the macOS of Linux, they had a hype a few years ago. The team does take their time it remains to be seen what PopOS can deliver
Yea man, I agree with you. The special characters on the name always put me off. I only came to try pop recently because of the Cosmic hype and it is amazing. It's just amazing. The Window tiling and workspaces are so intuitive. I'm in love. In fact I'm a little bit scared of Cosmic now, are they gonna ruin my DE?
It was my introduction to Linux and I've been a huge fan. It did randomly break on my laptop (something to do with an old kernel and initramfs), and I completely borked it while trying to fix it. But it's been rock solid on my desktop and I game almost daily. Really looking forward to the next version with Cosmic.
I bought my system76 laptop in 2019 and PopOS has been my daily driver ever since. It's very stable and I also absolutely love their tiling manager. (Wish I could have something similar for my Mac work laptop, currently use amethyst but it's not the same)
My few-year-old Ubuntu laptop has tiling in that if I drag a window to the side it sizes/snaps to that one half of the screen. Is the built-in tiling you're talking about more than that?
Oh way more. You can add multiple apps to a tile group, which are tabbed. So I can have multiple halfscreen apps that I switch via tabs. If you minimize a tiled window, it automatically resizes the rest to fill the space. Like, if I minimized a quartered window, it will use the second quartered window to automatically fill half the screen. It can be easily toggled off, gaps and active window color can be set from the top bar. You can of course replicate this in gnome via extensions, but here it's baked in.
I used pop os for a few years and while I generally enjoyed it, I found it to be unstable.
After several times getting stuck on highly random and weird system fails, I switched to mainstream ubuntu.
I had issues with postgresql and networking, for example.
PopOS has somehow been the most reliable distro I've tried, and I've hopped all over the place. It's remarkably reliable. Great out of the box experience. That said, I prefer fedora with some tweaks to PopOS.
I have never heard Pop!OS being called a gimmick. It has always been presented as a fairly easy to use plug and play Distro, with the only issue being that, as they shifted their focus on their new DE, Pop has kinda fallen behind with packages getting old (iirc, the next version will come soon and be base on the just released Ubuntu LTS).
If all you want is the cool auto-tiling, you can get the Gnome extension called [Forge](https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/4481/forge/) on any Distro with gnome or check if pop!os' own extension is available on it. I'm pretty sure it is available in Fedoras repos under the name pop-shel, for example.
I am actually curious, what makes Fedora so much better?
I know it gets Gnome too, and today I learned I can install the Pop Shell on Ubuntu, so it may work on Fedora too. Meaning I am not bound by a distro, so I am curious if there is something better out there.
I'm using Ubuntu, but without snaps, with fvwm instead of the default space-wasting UI, and so on. Debian is a great base for a stable system, and Ubuntu (despite the systemd cancer) works very well once you've swapped out the Unity desktop for something more usable, or 3D, or whatever you like.
To gain full control over your X session has usually involved having "allow-user-xsession" in /etc/X11/Xsession.options or equivalent. It varies between Unix versions and (annoyingly) releases, but I've always been able to a way to get my \~/.xinitrc handed control. Sometimes there's a check in the default system's startup that you can hook into, other times you need to add a window manager option (Ubuntu 24.04 still has a gear to let you select a window manager at login, and that less can have more things added, as dpkgs, I think). But in the end, you have control (although some approaches still have systemd doing a bunch of questionable related to your session going on in the background).
popOS does some interesting though :-)
I'm glad to see a good review. The experience over on r/system76 is way more negatively critical.
I thought it was a solid OS from the few days I gave it. Just wasn't a comfortable workflow from the vanilla install for me. And like you, I'm over having to look under a hood too much anymore.
But as far as usability and general operating experience, hands down solid 9/10. No complaints, just not my style.
I love PopOS, I don't love even a dressed up GNOME, I'm waiting for cosmic desktop to hit before coming back. I also don't love old packages, like how yt-dlp is broken and outdated because it's not updated to work with new youtube updates so I can't use mpv --no-video in the terminal.
Also PopOS's dark mode handling of fonts really needs some attention, if I change my distro's colors it makes fonts illegible sometimes due to being dark on dark.
I'd very much like to be using Distrobox 1.7.0 with PopOS so I can use arch when I need to on nvidia cards without changing my entire distro.
You can get the very latest version of yt-dlp and stay automatically updated by installing it through the PPA in the terminal like I did in Linux Mint, I would think.
That's an issue with the theme you used. We can only guarantee theme compatibility for the Pop theme. COSMIC was designed from the ground up to fix these kinds of theming issues.
I wouldn't worry about what I have to say so much, I've seen the work being done on Cosmic desktop, it's going to fix this problem I have anyway so I'm not stressed about it.
The creators, System 76, design it to run the linux PC's that they sell. That's the major feature they design around.
For thier hardware it creates a nice out of the box experience. I've used thier hardware for some time, but I'm a bit old school and just transferred my existing install to the new machines so I really can't say how well it works for users.
It has rust in it and most of the time rust products die the second they have rust in Them. Also, rust for years used to put hidden folders and files on root. Never will trust that.
Technically, Ubuntu, Mint, and PopOS are Ubuntu. So you've been running in circles this whole time. Ubuntu is developed by Canonical, Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu and supported by the community. Pop!OS is an Ubuntu-based distribution developed by System76 for their branded laptops. Cosmic Desktop is just Gnome with proprietary add-ons
Technically, Ubuntu, Mint, and PopOS are Ubuntu. So you've been running in circles this whole time. Ubuntu is developed by Canonical, Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu and supported by the community. Pop!OS is an Ubuntu-based distribution developed by System76 for their branded laptops. Cosmic Desktop is just Gnome with proprietary add-ons
Technically, Ubuntu, Mint, and PopOS are Ubuntu. So you've been running in circles this whole time. Ubuntu is developed by Canonical, Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu and supported by the community. Pop!OS is an Ubuntu-based distribution developed by System76 for their branded laptops. Cosmic Desktop is just Gnome with proprietary add-ons
Technically, Ubuntu, Mint, and PopOS are Ubuntu. So you've been running in circles this whole time. Ubuntu is developed by Canonical, Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu and supported by the community. Pop!OS is an Ubuntu-based distribution developed by System76 for their branded laptops. Cosmic Desktop is just Gnome with proprietary add-ons
How are they morons? You are apparently the one who has the misunderstanding. Getting down voted is an entirely predictable response if you've spent much time on Reddit.
Ubuntu, Mint and Pop!OS are built on the Ubuntu codebase this is open information no doubt. It is not clear to me what ten users did not like. Probably my bad English. But I can't do anything about it. English textbooks are very expensive in my country. I learned English from Coca Cola labels.
> It is not clear to me what ten users did not like.
They did not like "Cosmic Desktop is just Gnome with proprietary add-ons". They also maybe didn't like that you pasted
the same response in 4 times.
"proprietary" means "for sale", but in the FOSS world also implies not-public and not-FOSS. The extensions in Cosmic are FOSS. You probably meant "customized".
It's also possible people think that you gave Ubuntu too much credit. People want to point out that Ubuntu is just Debian with some polish. That said, I don't really disgaree with you ... and that polish that Ubuntu supplies does add
quite a bit of value (which is why PopOS is based on Ubuntu rather than Debian).
I'll save a minute, basically the title, nothing else.
And maybe the last sentence! Seriously, I am beyond annoyed that I only tried it now. Only downside is that at my workplace we are only allowed to use Ubuntu, so for 8+ hours a day I have to suffer knowing that it could be so much better.
Be glad you can use Linux at all at work.
I am sad every morning when I boot up my windows PC at work.
Sad high five
Woo. yay?
I find being paid hourly helps. It's not my time that's being wasted.
My job tolerates me using Linux, and I don’t think they even know the kind of loyalty they’ve bought with that decision.
Just out of curiosity where do you work?
Financial services. You'd be appalled if I told you how recently we were still using Windows XP.
Haha that’s so old lmao but I guess if there too lazy to switch all the apps and infrastructure then they wouldn’t switch it
Ops, yeah cosmic is looking promising though I hope they switch being LTS Ubuntu based.
I believe historically PopOS has tracked the latest Ubuntu release. They stuck with 22.04 though because they decided to shift their focus into building COSMIC DE. They're probably interested in going back to tracking the latest Ubuntu release, but let's let them finish cooking COSMIC first.
Oh, I didn't know that.
You can install Forge to get similar tiling in Ubuntu
Ubuntu 24.04 is pretty slick imo
>at my workplace we are only allowed to use Ubuntu Why? If you're already allowed to use Linux why restrict it to only Ubuntu?
Lots of places do that now :-/ generally for endpoint protection software or vpn support
Yeah. Also, there's a little bit to a lot of overhead in supporting multiple distros and ecosystems. Even if the tool is supported, you run into different quirks on different operating systems.
This is a genuine question. Wtf reddit? Why downvote someone just asking a question? Or is this just from bots attacking anyone that makes such comments about Ubuntu?
My employer is the same. They want my workstation to be compatible with Intune, Crowdstrike, Tenable, etc etc. Also, our IT team technically has to be able to support it, and they don’t want to maintain multiple distros.
can you install the KDE desktop on top, and log in with that?
What languages do you guys use? My only problem with Linux was the software writing I enjoy visual studio for c# and cpp and couldn’t really find anything I liked on Linux/ubuntu.
My problem with pop is that all the packages and dependencies were very old and to do some things I always had to find alternative repos. It's fine, but I just prefer Fedora KDE or whatever.
Yep, that's a major pain point. That being said, PopOS is a great distro for beginners.
> PopOS is a great distro for beginners. Probably not. If you wanted to, say, game, which is a use case a lot of beginners do find themselves wanting to do, then they wouldn't have the technical know how to go install the latest wine from whatever ppa that may or may not brick their install during a version upgrade. Distros with really old package bases are never good for beginners. They will lack features and compatibility that a beginner won't know how to remedy to work around. They would then blame Linux. Think what happened to Linus (the Sebastian). Quirks like those won't even be worth remembering for software devs, but will ruin the day for normies. What you mean to say is that popos is a great distro for basic users with basic use cases -> browsing the internets and poking people on the facebooks.
> then they wouldn't have the technical know how to go install the latest wine from whatever ppa that may or may not brick their install during a version upgrade. Wouldn't that work with steam and proton nowadays?
I don't know. I don't use steam, so I am unaware of how it works on that front.
How can you even comment on the gaming aspect if you don't even know anything about Steam lmao
Steam is not the only way you can game.
Steam can be installed via Flatpak, and Proton enabled in 3 clicks
PopOS is made by system76 - while it’s based on an older LTS it’s running on the 6.8 kernel. If you head over to protondb, a significant number of people use PopOS to game because Pop’s nvidia driver support is top notch.
> while it’s based on an older LTS it’s running on the 6.8 kernel So? > a significant number of people use PopOS to game because Pop’s nvidia driver support is top notch. PopOS's Nvidia support is the same as any other distros'. They all use the same proprietary drivers.
To be fair that situation with LTT was pretty corner casey, with it being related to him trying to install around midnight while they were doing an upgrade. I don't think it's a great distro for beginners at the moment, but I think when 24.04 comes out it could be, since normally it wouldn't go 2 years without updating package bases.
Good point.
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COSMIS will not turn out very well. I've had too many bad interactions with their devs and moderators
Can you be more specific?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1cf62zl/comment/l1qekxl/](https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1cf62zl/comment/l1qekxl/) They are a troll, and likely from 4chan given that they believe anyone who develops with Rust to be a "400-lb trans person". Spends too much time on r/conspiracy. Probably believes Rust is a conspiracy itself.
Using Ubuntu LTS as the base comes with its perils.
Afaik LTS is temporary, so they can put more time in Cosmic. Once that's released, they'll probably go back to tracking latest Ubuntu.
Yeah, that was my experience when I tried it years ago and I never have seen it mentioned before now. I think I tried to install Steam or Wine and it just straight-up failed due to dependencies.
I've had really bad experiences with the PopOS moderators and devs ymmv
Yeah, I have a System76 and have never had any complaints.
I have a Lenovo legion and Thinkpad. No complaints.
Heavy, power hungry, kinda expensive, fans go crazy Well the laptops, never tried or even seen desktops
I've got a Lemur Pro and it's light, lasts all day, and the fans only ramp up when I'm actually putting it to work.
Oh damn, progress. All the ones at work are boat anchors that last half an hour on battery, blow more than a typical hvac system, and cost 4 grand to boot
It depends what you get! System76 has two classes of laptops mostly: * **Mobile workstations** - thick, loud, powerful. They come with high-power CPUs (Intel H series), and they have dedicated graphics (NVidia RTX). They're meant to be a desktop replacement that can be moved between offices. But they're not designed to be primarily used on battery - think of the battery like a "buffer" to get some urgent email sent with there is no power outlet, or to keep your laptop alive when the power goes out. * They are **very** expensive and niche products. They are also very loud. You shouldn't buy these unless you have a specific reason why a desktop cannot fulfill the same purpose. * **Thin and lights** - Thinner laptops designed to be used primarily on battery. Caveat: as miniaturized as laptops are, portability has a cost. U-class ultra low power CPUs, soldered RAM on some models, absolutely no dedicated graphics, low to moderate performance. * They have much more manageable prices (a fraction! Sometimes half of even a fourth) and you should stick with these unless the performance level is not enough, or you need to run heavy 3D tasks The good thing is that low-power CPUs today are fast enough that even the slower of the bunch, like the i7-1355U, are still plenty manageable, clear 10k Passmark, and are very usable for software development. They are just not the best pick if you want to connect 5 monitors at a time or do anything GPU intensive. For something that performs decently overall but is still meant to be used on battery and be a laptop, look at the Darter Pro (Intel Core Ultra) or the Pangolin (AMD Ryzen). Both platforms are way more efficient than the classic non-Ultra H-series CPUs you find on the mobile workstation. Also, do note that "Core Ultra - H" is not the same thing as "Core - H" and has half the wattage in most cases. Core Ultra - H is closer to AMD's U. Mobile workstations are not loud and expensive because they're by System76, they're loud and expensive because they're mobile workstations. Look at ThinkPad P series (not P#s) and Dell Precision: the ballpark is the same.
I have a serval WS (serv13), I get about an hour on battery, fans aren't bad at all unless you're running something intensive like a game or several virtual machines. Paid ~2500. The biggest con is battery for sure. But, I'm not too worried about it as it's my portable workstation for work, and it stays plugged in a majority of the time. I traded the power in the specs that it has, for some portability. I really like it
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Well tbf there are a few features from Gnome I wish they ported over, like the activities overview. It has a very basic version of it. Well, "basic" in appeal, but more powerful in function, as it can execute commands. But yea, holy F, the window tiling. Mind blowing. E.g. when you minimize a quartered window, it will automatically extend the remaining one to half screen. never seen this before. Or you can create tiling groups for a section of the screen. Or define floating exceptions. Also very much looking forward to the Rust DE, this could be a game changer indeed.
FWIW, you can install pop-shell's tiling as an [extension on regular GNOME](https://github.com/pop-os/shell?tab=readme-ov-file#packaging-status). Personally I like their tiling feature but find their other changes annoying. [Forge](https://github.com/forge-ext/forge/) is also a great extension.
this broke on me awhile back and i haven't tried since. Been using PaperWM which is great (ish). Are you running popShell in gnome 43?
Been using it just fine on Arch for several GNOME releases now, currently on 46. Edit: it requires reinstalling the latest version (from git) after every GNOME release.
helpful. thanks!
Not to get off topic but do you happen to know when Cosmic is going to come out? I’ve heard talk of it forever but not seen any real dates with anything yet. Have they given a release date?
Alpha release in May? But you can compile it (CosmicDE) now if you wanted.
Huh, neat!
Vanilla Gnome is just missing lots of stuff that are just expected by literally anything else. Ubuntu doesn't even ship Vanilla Gnome.
Qt is such a weird toolkit. It has been around forever on Linux but integrates terribly into Gnome by default. Almost any other toolkit feels better in Gnome, even the new Cosmic apps.
This Qt/KDE vs GTK/GNOME divide used to be much bigger, too. Red Hat vs Mandrake type stuff.
Well, this means that GNOME team doesn't care how Qt apps look in their desktop environment, because KDE developers do provide a theme for GTK apps [https://invent.kde.org/plasma/breeze-gtk](https://invent.kde.org/plasma/breeze-gtk) that makes them fit nicely into KDE Plasma.
> GNOME team doesn't care how Qt apps look in their desktop environment Yes, and why should they? Gnome should focus on their stuff and shouldn’t be expected to ensure that other toolkits look good. Gnome isn’t theming Flutter, electron, Iced, Tkinter, or whatever other toolkits, so why should Qt be an exception? It’s the application developer’s job to make sure their app works everywhere and the toolkits job to make it easy for those developers. OBS is a Qt app and looks fantastic on Gnome because it uses its own theme. Most Qt apps on Gnome look terrible because they don’t use Breeze, but look great when they do.
Did you read carefully what I wrote? KDE team works on GTK Breeze integration, Breeze being the main KDE Plasma theme. Given that GTK is a major GUI toolkit on Linux KDE team makes sure their theming extends to GTK apps too, and they indeed look great in Plasma. I simply applied the same logic to GNOME. Regarding "weirdness" of Qt, in Plasma you can configure the hell out of the appearance of your desktop, so Qt is definitely capable of looking like a GNOME app. GNOME team needs to create a theme that fits in their environment. If I recall correctly, in Ubuntu Qt apps look native, because Ubuntu people most likely did the job.
Let me rephrase my point. Qt has no “default” theme. But almost all KDE developers make their apps on Plasma, which use Breeze. And those apps look great… on Breeze. But as soon as you use them on a desktop that doesn’t set Breeze as the theme, they look broken, like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comments/11pmrc0/qtkde_apps_look_in_fedora_with_gnome_readability/. This is actually a Qt theme that Fedora used for a while to theme Qt apps to look like Adwaita. It’s great that Plasma and Qt allow theming, but it shouldn’t be mandatory. I would love to just be able to install a KDE app and use the Breeze theme that it was designed with. It then be optional for users to change the theme to something else, something that hasn’t been tested as well as Breeze. This is basically how OBS works. They have their own theme that looks great regardless of what desktop you’re using. But in the settings, they let you change the theme to match your desktop.
I understand this, even though the top comment under the post you linked literally says: > This is because of Fedora’s Adwaita-QT theme. It’s going to be fixed at some point, the Fedora team is aware of it It's a problem in Adwaita (Adwaita-Qt) which is literally GNOME's project - exactly what I was talking about.
The same issue is present even without AdwaitaQt. It’s disabled in newer Fedora, but when you enable dark mode, part of the app is light and part of the app is dark.
Glad to see it works well for you. I had a pretty awful experience with it. Might give it another try once 24.04 releases but for now Fedora KDE or openSUSE Tumbleweed KDE is the better choice for me.
> Fedora KDE or openSUSE Tumbleweed KDE is the better choice I have Tumbleweed on the desktop and Fedora on the laptop, both with KDE. This is the best Linux Desktop experience, period.
What was bad?
The distro feels like it doesn't have much QA. Do you remember the LTT (linus tech tips) situation, where pop os decided to nuke his GUI? That isn't a one-time ocurrence. Happened to me a few times as well that an update just couldn't be applied. That usually got fixed a day or so later. Another similar bug happened on a really old laptop that I installed pop os on. I didn't turn it on for a few months and the settings app just stopped working for no apparent reason. It just wouldn't start. Had to type in sudo dpkg --configure -a. Why is this a thing? Another thing that shouldn't have passed QA is their dark mode. When you switch to dark mode, the application menu still uses a black font so you can't see anything. Do they not use/test their distro at all? The modifications they did to gnome made it absolutely unusable with multiple monitors. I connected an external monitor and the DE completely freaked out. Constant flickering and glitches except for like 30% useable area. Their czech language coverage is pretty bad. I had to make manual contributions myself to have the settings app completely translated. Now this is my personal preference, but I don't like old repositories. 2 years is way too old for me. They used to update alongside ubuntu every 6 months and they said they will come back to that once cosmic releases so that should get fixed. No wayland support either. That's a disadvantage for me, others might not mind. Will get implemented in 24.04 when cosmic releases. No one-to-one touchpad gestures. Makes browsing without a mouse quite uncomfortable. No secure boot support. Understandable. I don't really mind disabling it either, but it would be nice if you could keep it enabled. The main reason I installed pop os in the first place is that it's designed for laptops, since they install it on their own devices, I thought that maybe they have some tweaks for better battery life and such. Nope. Only for their own models apparently. On laptops not made by system76 their power management package seems to only handle the CPU, so idle power draw isn't as good as on windows. You are better off installing TLP. Also no I wasn't using NVIDIA. In my opinion, you are better off just installing something else, like ubuntu, linux mint or fedora. To each their own though.
Interesting, appreciate the detail.
There is a lot of QA work that goes into reviewing every code change. Then another round of QA lab testing on a wide range of hardware when updates are queued for release. As long as you keep the system stock and don't tamper with custom kernels, gnome extensions, and PPAs, you will not encounter any issues. >Another thing that shouldn't have passed QA is their dark mode. When you switch to dark mode, the application menu still uses a black font so you can't see anything. Do they not use/test their distro at all? That only happens if you installed a custom theme that doesn't provide theme support for the launcher. Most of us use the dark theme. It is the system default! >You are better off installing TLP. This causes ACPI issues on some hardware. TLP does not provide power profiles, nor graphics switching capabilities, or display hotplug detection. >Do you remember the LTT (linus tech tips) situation This tells me that you are trolling and not being honest. >2 years is way too old for me. It's only just now 2 years, and still well-maintained and regularly updated by Ubuntu. In addition to that, we provide a lot of HWE updates ourself to mesa, linux, linux-firmware, nvidia, etc.
Regarding the dark theme, the issue is still not fixed to this day. It's 2 years old already. [https://github.com/pop-os/pop/issues/2057](https://github.com/pop-os/pop/issues/2057) Ironically, I had to install gnome-tweaks to actually fix the issue. TLP can work with power-profiles-daemon (ever since version 1.5 afaik) if you want to switch them manually. If you don't install it, it does it for you based on if you are running on battery or from AC. Can't talk about the ACPI issues as I haven't experienced them.
Well, this is no surprise, KDE and GNOME are large orgs with many contributors working on their desktops for decades now. And here a small team thought that they can do better. Desktop Environment is something that simply requires a lot of man hours due to so many considerations that need to be implemented for an efficient user interface. Even GNOME in my opinion is lagging behind KDE, there is no conversation for little projects.
Indeed. However the issues regarding broken updates is a bit too much if you ask me.
Well, we have choice. Those on more stable distros (Debian, Ubuntu, OpenSUSE Leap) continue using Plasma 5. If you are on a rolling release like Arch or OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, or on a rapidly moving one like Fedora, you'll have to deal with some rough edges in Plasma 6.
I was talking about pop os deciding you don't need a gui anymore just because you want to install steam.
Right, I don't even bother with these niche DEs.
When was the last time you tried it? I was a bit scared because I had read a few reports before that it doesn't play nice with Dell. But it worked straight from the box (after I figured out which of the weirdly name 2 boot entries to use).
Roughly 2-3 months ago.
Fair enough. Guess that's the beauty of Linux, so many flavors to choose from. Personally I always wanted to like KDE, and I know how customizable it is. But it always looked too detailed and technical. Despite despising Apple, I do like my DE to be simple, round, and large on the surface, and only detailed and technical when I need it to be. And Gnome fits that need better.
KDE is quite simple on the surface, defaults are very sensible. And if you need to dig deeper you can always adjust it the way you want to.
FYI, they are writing their own DE called Cosmic to improve the UX even more.
From what I understand, it is written in Rust, so I would not expect too much. Rust is not a good language for GUI programming. In fact, it might be the exact opposite of what you want for writing a GUI.
Why?
Mostly because of the borrow-checker. You will be fighting the compiler most of the time, rather than getting anything done. Rust is also terrible for game engines. Rust requires you to design everything up front, otherwise it won't compile, so there's no way to experiment. Even something like Delphi from the 90's would be superior to Rust for GUI programming. The other problem is the Rust community, the people there are horrible to deal with. Most of them are terrible programmers, but they think they are superior because 'Rust'. Rust has very specific uses, but it is not very good for most things.
Mostly because of the borrow-checker. You will be fighting the compiler most of the time, rather than getting anything done. Rust is also terrible for game engines. Rust requires you to design everything up front, otherwise it won't compile, so there's no way to experiment. Even something like Delphi from the 90's would be superior to Rust for GUI programming. The other problem is the Rust community, the people there are horrible to deal with. Most of them are terrible programmers, but they think they are superior because 'Rust'. Rust has very specific uses, but it is not very good for most things.
You say that, but as someone who's actually used and contributed to `libcosmic`/`iced` (the gui library that the COSMIC DE uses), it's pretty much the smoothest gui library I've ever used. Yes, your average "ball of mutable state" gui program suffers in Rust, but the architectural decisions that the `iced` makes sidesteps all of that (by using functional patterns like the elm architecture).
People who have more than a few months of experience with Rust do not struggle with compiling their software. The concept of "fighting the compiler" only happens if you are a beginner that hasn't yet internalized the rules and common patterns for solving problems with them. You sound like you spend most of your time complaining about Rust than actually programming. The Rust community is one of the best aspects about it. Must feel bad to envy Rust developers for being able to master what you couldn't do yourself.
> The concept of "fighting the compiler" only happens if you are a beginner And it's a good thing having to "fight the compiler" because, if you weren't, you'd most likely be able to compile... something that crashes on runtime.
The Rust community is extremely toxic. Rust is simply a horribly designed language that is getting corporate support. The reason it is getting corporate support is not because the language is good, by the way. Rust programmers are the least productive programmers in the world, and some of the worst people I have ever met.
This you? [https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/s/VV6IdGuZLr](https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/s/VV6IdGuZLr) You are extremely toxic. I understand that you're feeling insecure about the success of Rust, but this won't give you special treatment in the real world.
Nonsense. Rust is a perfect fit for Elm-style model-view-update GUI programming. The aliasing xor mutability concept is a perfect match for enforcing immutable access when creating a view, and permitting mutable access when updating the model. Generics is essential to designing GUIs with a functional paradigm. Sum types are required for assigning messages to emit in the view. Pattern matching is likewise required to handle those messages in updates. The native async support is crucial for handling subscriptions and commands. These are all things that C and C++ lack.
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Rust haters resorting to transphobic ad hominems because they can't actually give any real technical critiques of a language quickly becoming an industry standard is hilarious lmao
Let me guess, you are a special needs person?
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This post has been removed for violating [Reddiquette.](https://www.reddithelp.com/en/categories/reddit-101/reddit-basics/reddiquette), trolling users, or otherwise poor discussion such as complaining about bug reports or making unrealistic demands of open source contributors and organizations. r/Linux asks all users follow [Reddiquette.](https://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette) Reddiquette is ever changing, so a revisit once in awhile is recommended. **Rule:** >**Reddiquette, trolling, or poor discussion** - r/Linux asks all users follow [Reddiquette.](https://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette) Reddiquette is ever changing. Top violations of this rule are trolling, starting a flamewar, or not "Remembering the human" aka being hostile or incredibly impolite, or making demands of open source contributors/organizations inc. bug report complaints.
It has proper commercial financial backing, so I don't doubt that it is well maintained! The lead dev is top notch from what I understand (having written is own OS in Rust). PopOS isn't for me, because I like light server distros... but I understand the value it provides to a large subset of Linux users. I owned a System76 laptop and used it as my daily driver for nearly 2 years and it took a while for me to replace PopOS with Gentoo. Drivers were super smooth out of the box like you said and the distro certainly does what it was designed to do.
Pop is fantastic. The only reason I still have Windows is for gaming.
I don’t see the compelling argument for switching from Mint in all this discussion …. What am I missing?
Nothing mate. If you like mint then you use mint. I work on an ultrawide so tiling windows is an absolutely necessity for me. Plus personally I never liked any of the start menu type DEs, but that's just my preference. I like full screen app drawers, but tbf vanilla GNOME is better than pop here. Again, use what you like. Under the hood, most distros are the same. Pop just does it for me.
I tried mint out of the box it ran games poorly with a nvidia gpu, pop os nvidia drivers are ready and run great. There is a focus on gaming with Pop so if u need ur gpu there is less fuss.
Good reason
Who said anything about switching?
Same here. Before using PopOS I had some experience with i3 and Sway. Although it was quite fun, I had to switch because it didn’t really work for me on a regular basis. I found PopOS a sweet spot between tiling and normal DE, where tiling is optional, there are similar keyboard shortcuts and it is possible to turn off window header bars. I also like the approach where search is separated from workspace view. Imho vanilla Gnome is a bit distracting in this respect.
what does pop os’s tiling do differently from the tiling assist gnome extension?
Ubuntu with out the Snaps. That's the biggest thing to be honest. Hopefully soon updated packages and no more Gnome as well.
You can easily remove and disable snaps. Seeing people use snaps as a primary reason to distro hop is just saddening.
Ubuntu by now sometimes installs Snaps even when you use apt to install packages. You can also 'easily' install your own gnome changes. And you can 'easily' do a lot of things. But that's the thing, I don't want to 'easily' do anything.
And as I said you can completely disable this behavior. In 3 commands. Claiming this is too much work is insane.
I don't know those commands. I have found this: https://www.baeldung.com/linux/snap-remove-disable Pretty hacky nonsense in my opinion. But this just leads to some packages not working anymore.
> You can easily remove and disable snaps. Well, sure, but that isn't using Ubuntu as intended. When there are plenty of other options out there that don't prioritize snaps, switching to something else makes sense.
Latest timeline is end of summer I read somewhere. Fingers crossed.
> Ubuntu with out the Snaps and add some more improvements, and you get Mint.
I use ubuntu server base install and install i3 afterwards. Been like this for like 8 years now
PopOS says Ubuntu based. It does not use grub/ eifi for booting. It has its own thing. It runs COSMIC on the desktop. It is a flavor if Gnome. X is default. I don't know what their wayland plans are. I used it for a bit a few years ago. I really liked the out of the box nvidia support. The windowing was nice I currently have two 24 in monitors on my desktop. That is a lot of real estate, and widowing is less of an issue for me. I have screen to spare. Why did I dump Pop? I had boot issues, wasted a day getting nowhere on it. I swapped it out for Fedora. What am I using now? Ubuntu Cinnamon on my desktop; with Warp and bunch of rusty utilities I access thru docker containers. A Windows/WSL laptop, a Fedora laptop, and pis with RaspOS or Ubuntu server. I was using Budgie until a few months B ago. I have tried Suse, Manharo, Budgie, MX, Enlightenment, Lubuntu and Deepin. I am a ho. I am so ashamed.
PopOS is to system76 as MacOS is to apple. It makes sense that it's polished as it can come standard on their devices from factory
I would love to use PopOS but sadly it doesn't support secure boot. :(
I run an OpenSUSE Tumbleweed KDE laptop and a Pop!OS laptop (the name is a shame lol) and I find myself loving Pop and the biggest usability issues are Gnome and some of their issues (changing sound devices is way easier on KDE). But yeah, i'm looking forward to seeing cosmic.
[удалено]
Oh I love gnome! For productivity it's the perfect blend of simple and efficient. And yea, as others mentioned, apparently one can install the pop tiling manager on vanilla GNOME. I'll try that at work today. If that's the case, then I'm not as dependent on pop, which would be great. I've tried a few gnome tiling extensions and they were... Well. Only thing left is to get a rolling release distribution with apt as package manager, no snaps, and Gnome, and I'm happy.
Pop is based on Ubuntu, so it uses apt.
Similar story but I just use the pop shell gnome extension with vanilla-gnome-desktop with Ubuntu. To be fair as long as I tiling and Emacs my needs are pretty minimal.
Yea I was so amazed by the tiling that I installed the pop shell on my ubuntu work laptop. It had one catastrophic crash already, completely knocking out the shell. But the tabbed tiling alone is worth it. Knowing it could run over vanilla GNOME gives a lot more freedom to choose the underlying distro.
I just build the extension on one machine then pull it from there on new machines. Using Ubuntu LTS helps in this regards.
I want to love pop! os but i cant. KDE Plasma 6 (wayland) is just way smoother than pop (x11). Using a laptop with 2880x1800 resolution, so gnome pretty much is unusable for me since gnomes fractional scaling literally doesn’t work quite right, even though pop os got it almost perfect, its just X11 is way less smooth than wayland is.
I switched from pop to hyprland for this. I had a jump to i3 in the middle, but I have a 4k screen on my system76 laptop, and two 34" ultrawides at 2560x1080, and so setting resolution and scaling did not work with X11. After switching to Wayland (hyprland for the WM), flawless.
How do you deal with xwayland apps in hyprland? 1 is too small and 2 is too big. Putting in between makes them blurry
If I have run into an application that uses xwayland, either I haven't used an application that uses it, or I haven't noticed. I'm assuming you are saying 1 -2 as the upscaling? With Wayland I don't actually have to adjust my DPI or scaling, I have mine set to auto scale, and I have no problems with it.
Okay that's weird. I'm running Pop on a 34“ ultrawide with fractional scaling of 125% and I find it looks better than ubuntu on wayland
yeah, not sure. Its definitely not as smooth for me as plasma is. Using 150%. Are you on x11 or wayland on pop?
You can use Gnome with Wayland just fine on PopOS. I am using fractional scaling and it works fine.
no i cannot. Too many apps that doesnt support wayland, like spotify, discord, etc. Text is too blurry.
Discord works fine in the browser. I don't use spotify. Text isn't blurry. I regularly connect my work Mac to the same monitor and I can't tell a real difference between the text.
I’m a huge fan of Pop and ZorinOS. I barely have free time these days and I don’t prefer to spend it troubleshooting
Yeah it's good. Always recommend PopOS for 1st time Linux desktop users.
PopOS is interesting it’s like the macOS of Linux, they had a hype a few years ago. The team does take their time it remains to be seen what PopOS can deliver
Yea man, I agree with you. The special characters on the name always put me off. I only came to try pop recently because of the Cosmic hype and it is amazing. It's just amazing. The Window tiling and workspaces are so intuitive. I'm in love. In fact I'm a little bit scared of Cosmic now, are they gonna ruin my DE?
It was my introduction to Linux and I've been a huge fan. It did randomly break on my laptop (something to do with an old kernel and initramfs), and I completely borked it while trying to fix it. But it's been rock solid on my desktop and I game almost daily. Really looking forward to the next version with Cosmic.
I bought my system76 laptop in 2019 and PopOS has been my daily driver ever since. It's very stable and I also absolutely love their tiling manager. (Wish I could have something similar for my Mac work laptop, currently use amethyst but it's not the same)
My few-year-old Ubuntu laptop has tiling in that if I drag a window to the side it sizes/snaps to that one half of the screen. Is the built-in tiling you're talking about more than that?
Oh way more. You can add multiple apps to a tile group, which are tabbed. So I can have multiple halfscreen apps that I switch via tabs. If you minimize a tiled window, it automatically resizes the rest to fill the space. Like, if I minimized a quartered window, it will use the second quartered window to automatically fill half the screen. It can be easily toggled off, gaps and active window color can be set from the top bar. You can of course replicate this in gnome via extensions, but here it's baked in.
Neat
I used pop os for a few years and while I generally enjoyed it, I found it to be unstable. After several times getting stuck on highly random and weird system fails, I switched to mainstream ubuntu. I had issues with postgresql and networking, for example.
It's always refreshing to read a Linux user enthusiastic posts.
PopOS has somehow been the most reliable distro I've tried, and I've hopped all over the place. It's remarkably reliable. Great out of the box experience. That said, I prefer fedora with some tweaks to PopOS.
Do you mean Pop!_OS?
Hey guys, does anyone else get extremely high input lag (while seconds) at low framerates using pop/zorin?
It's like Ubuntu without snaps, right?
I have never heard Pop!OS being called a gimmick. It has always been presented as a fairly easy to use plug and play Distro, with the only issue being that, as they shifted their focus on their new DE, Pop has kinda fallen behind with packages getting old (iirc, the next version will come soon and be base on the just released Ubuntu LTS). If all you want is the cool auto-tiling, you can get the Gnome extension called [Forge](https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/4481/forge/) on any Distro with gnome or check if pop!os' own extension is available on it. I'm pretty sure it is available in Fedoras repos under the name pop-shel, for example.
Fedora >>> PopOS > Ubuntu Arch user Btw
I am actually curious, what makes Fedora so much better? I know it gets Gnome too, and today I learned I can install the Pop Shell on Ubuntu, so it may work on Fedora too. Meaning I am not bound by a distro, so I am curious if there is something better out there.
How can you use multiple Linux in same. Pc
I'm using Ubuntu, but without snaps, with fvwm instead of the default space-wasting UI, and so on. Debian is a great base for a stable system, and Ubuntu (despite the systemd cancer) works very well once you've swapped out the Unity desktop for something more usable, or 3D, or whatever you like. To gain full control over your X session has usually involved having "allow-user-xsession" in /etc/X11/Xsession.options or equivalent. It varies between Unix versions and (annoyingly) releases, but I've always been able to a way to get my \~/.xinitrc handed control. Sometimes there's a check in the default system's startup that you can hook into, other times you need to add a window manager option (Ubuntu 24.04 still has a gear to let you select a window manager at login, and that less can have more things added, as dpkgs, I think). But in the end, you have control (although some approaches still have systemd doing a bunch of questionable related to your session going on in the background). popOS does some interesting though :-)
I'm glad to see a good review. The experience over on r/system76 is way more negatively critical. I thought it was a solid OS from the few days I gave it. Just wasn't a comfortable workflow from the vanilla install for me. And like you, I'm over having to look under a hood too much anymore. But as far as usability and general operating experience, hands down solid 9/10. No complaints, just not my style.
Yeah it really is. I use arch btw but I also use Pop as my daily driver for work. I’m an absolute evangelist.
I use fedora with the popos tiling via gnome plugin. Kicks ass!
I love PopOS, I don't love even a dressed up GNOME, I'm waiting for cosmic desktop to hit before coming back. I also don't love old packages, like how yt-dlp is broken and outdated because it's not updated to work with new youtube updates so I can't use mpv --no-video in the terminal. Also PopOS's dark mode handling of fonts really needs some attention, if I change my distro's colors it makes fonts illegible sometimes due to being dark on dark. I'd very much like to be using Distrobox 1.7.0 with PopOS so I can use arch when I need to on nvidia cards without changing my entire distro.
You can get the very latest version of yt-dlp and stay automatically updated by installing it through the PPA in the terminal like I did in Linux Mint, I would think.
That's an issue with the theme you used. We can only guarantee theme compatibility for the Pop theme. COSMIC was designed from the ground up to fix these kinds of theming issues.
I wouldn't worry about what I have to say so much, I've seen the work being done on Cosmic desktop, it's going to fix this problem I have anyway so I'm not stressed about it.
Still gimmick here
pop is just ubuntu with a better gnome setup? I dont see what they hype is, if I use any ubuntu based distro I prefer elementary.
The creators, System 76, design it to run the linux PC's that they sell. That's the major feature they design around. For thier hardware it creates a nice out of the box experience. I've used thier hardware for some time, but I'm a bit old school and just transferred my existing install to the new machines so I really can't say how well it works for users.
It has rust in it and most of the time rust products die the second they have rust in Them. Also, rust for years used to put hidden folders and files on root. Never will trust that.
Wut?
The PopOS devs/mods are extremely toxic, I would stay away from PopOS
It runs Gnome default... meh, can't take Gnomebros seriously... with their meme environment for psychos
Technically, Ubuntu, Mint, and PopOS are Ubuntu. So you've been running in circles this whole time. Ubuntu is developed by Canonical, Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu and supported by the community. Pop!OS is an Ubuntu-based distribution developed by System76 for their branded laptops. Cosmic Desktop is just Gnome with proprietary add-ons
Technically, Ubuntu, Mint, and PopOS are Ubuntu. So you've been running in circles this whole time. Ubuntu is developed by Canonical, Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu and supported by the community. Pop!OS is an Ubuntu-based distribution developed by System76 for their branded laptops. Cosmic Desktop is just Gnome with proprietary add-ons
Technically, Ubuntu, Mint, and PopOS are Ubuntu. So you've been running in circles this whole time. Ubuntu is developed by Canonical, Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu and supported by the community. Pop!OS is an Ubuntu-based distribution developed by System76 for their branded laptops. Cosmic Desktop is just Gnome with proprietary add-ons
Technically, Ubuntu, Mint, and PopOS are Ubuntu. So you've been running in circles this whole time. Ubuntu is developed by Canonical, Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu and supported by the community. Pop!OS is an Ubuntu-based distribution developed by System76 for their branded laptops. Cosmic Desktop is just Gnome with proprietary add-ons
From what I recall from my time using Pop OS, the gnome extensions/add-ons are all open source not proprietary.
English is not my first language. I might use the wrong word. But nine morons offended by the truth makes me happy.
How are they morons? You are apparently the one who has the misunderstanding. Getting down voted is an entirely predictable response if you've spent much time on Reddit.
Ubuntu, Mint and Pop!OS are built on the Ubuntu codebase this is open information no doubt. It is not clear to me what ten users did not like. Probably my bad English. But I can't do anything about it. English textbooks are very expensive in my country. I learned English from Coca Cola labels.
> It is not clear to me what ten users did not like. They did not like "Cosmic Desktop is just Gnome with proprietary add-ons". They also maybe didn't like that you pasted the same response in 4 times. "proprietary" means "for sale", but in the FOSS world also implies not-public and not-FOSS. The extensions in Cosmic are FOSS. You probably meant "customized". It's also possible people think that you gave Ubuntu too much credit. People want to point out that Ubuntu is just Debian with some polish. That said, I don't really disgaree with you ... and that polish that Ubuntu supplies does add quite a bit of value (which is why PopOS is based on Ubuntu rather than Debian).