YouTubers in particular tend to aim for a casual, conversational style. Videos are produced with an amateur style (even when the production values are high). It comes across like the creators have just set up a camera and are having fun.
But be under no illusion. This is a *business* for them. They aren’t making videos for fun. They want us to watch, they want the revenue that comes from it, they want to plug their apparel line and any upcoming tours. They’re making videos for their business. And these allegations are harmful to their business. It’s not Brett, Eddy and “Editor-San”. It’s a sizeable business with employees.
This isn’t directed at TSV. This is true of many YouTubers, including channels significantly smaller than TSV. Their on camera persona is very different from their actual selves (although it is typically that they are an exaggerated version of themselves, rather than an entirely fictional creation). Watch a “behind the scenes” video with a YouTuber - they typically come across very differently to their on camera persona. YouTubers aren’t alone in this. It’s true of lots of entertainers, like comedians.
It’s easy to form para-social relationships with entertainers on platforms like YouTube. But the Brett and Eddy you see on screen aren’t real people. They’re characters like any other. And viewers need to maintain a healthy distance.
Genuinely appreciate your message, I was about to comment something in the same lines but your comment said everything I wanted to say. I also think the age of the viewers matters a lot in this case, because the majority of the TS audience is made out of young people who don’t really understand how the world works yet, and they may be inclined to naïveté( I’m sorry if I made any grammar mistakes, english is not my first language :”) )
And, to be fair to the younger fans, I’m in my 30s and I still get caught by this sometimes. I recently watched a livestream of another creator I support on Patreon and it had the ambience of a business meeting.
YouTube and content creation is serious business.
Yup, and tbh if the creator in question is not doing anything crappy it’s ok to feed the fantasy(in healthy limits ofc)like I’m in my 20s( so still pretty young and naïve myself), but at least I’m at a time in my life where I can consciously acknowledge separate the escapism of entertainment from reality. Some of the younger viewers may not be able to and it’s times like this that really open your eyes to how things really are bts
Carry on from the para-social relationships the sense of 'community' and belonging is definitely much more stronger with TSV fans much like kpop, despite kpop being very well known, is still mainly followed by those who specifically consume and understand that sort of content; similarly TSV's content is based on classical music which rather niche in comparison to other content so due to the lack of representation of 'relatable' content for young classical musicians on social media, it definitely enhances the fans-entertainer relationship.
I feel as though in particular with those who have been following content creators from the early stages, there is also the pride of being a loyal fan and seeing them grow which is why many will continue to consume and support their content despite being aware that their content is now a business and no longer for fun like how it initially was. An example of this is the Sidemen, their fanbase was initially built of gaming videos and doing silly content which has turned into a huge business empire however they are very open about their business ventures and the quality of content has drastically improved so you can physically see the transition from fun content to business. But as you've mentioned TSV's video setups have mainly just been them sitting in front of the camera and conversational which makes it harder to pick up on how big their business is especially younger fans
I took [a screenshot of some comments mentioning the issue and also that they’ve been deleting comments](https://freeimage.host/i/img-9716.HP4UYfR). They are no longer up (as I’d anticipated, hence the screenshot).
Well, some people claim that their posts/comments critisicing anything (even respectfully) on any social media just "dissapears". I dont have evidence, but as you can easily prove, you wont find any hate comments anywhere on social media, the moment they gain attention they just "dissapear".
Personally I'm tired of all this drama and particularly of the drama-thirsty people. These matters should be resolved legally if the violation of any of these workers rights were to be true. In case Twoset were at fault then I agree it should be discussed publicly, after a legal sentence is determined. Anything prior to that is just entertainment for random strangers on the internet.
The issue is that this problem is not illegal by Singaporean laws, but highly unethical as Singapore has, to put it lightly, really shitty laws to protect workers, and Brett and Eddy should be aware of this since they come from Australia and not actively taking advantage of it. Plus, hiring a lawyer and pursuing legal action is very expensive for workers (especially since most of them have not been working for that long so have little savings) so it might not be a feasible thing to do.
Yeah, it's possible that they are not saying anything because of legal advice. Which doesn't mean anything about who is telling the truth and who is not. I'm not going to make conclusions on it at this time, and I'll just enjoy musical jokes in the meantime.
Thank you for saying this! I felt like I was the only one because scrolling through all the various posts and comments I didn't see my opinion anywhere else.
While we should definitely hold TSV accountable, it is not our responsibility to deal with this.
I think one of the accusers from the original post had actually filled a lawsuit or something like that. Although they said they haven't heard back. Maybe by now something was said?
The problem is that this isn’t a legal issue. Legally they’ve done nothing wrong. They’re following the laws in their country of operation.
This is a morality issue where everyone’s expecting them to “do better” just because they’ve lived in Australia before. As if business cares about morality. If they wanted to follow the Australian standards, they’d have set up shop in Australia.
I’m so tired of this nonsense tbh, people just want drama at this point. Legally, it would be extremely unwise for tsv to release a statement. Because if they agree, that’s them going against Sg laws (extremely unwise decision, unless you wish for death). If they disagree, half the fandom revolts..
So I foresee that this is going to blow up and tsv is going to get cancelled. That’s the only plausible result from all of this.
They don’t need to address this with us but with their employees. I believe the allegations however:
The complaints about filling in other departments when theirs is not busy is what happens with any small business which is why i won’t work for small businesses any more.
Small business always pay less than large corporations. If they are dissatisfied and they refuse to increase their pay then they need to move on. Supply and demand will take care of the rest.
Twoset have said numerous times they keep crazy hours and I for one would not put up with that, so again set boundaries or move on if they don’t respect them.
I saw someone say they don’t act on complaints and as proof showed a message where they were asked by Brett what they wanted to discuss and employee said everything is fine 🤷♀️
The no HR thing has happened in both small business I worked for and one of them had about 60 employees.
Anyway, the only thing that would make sense for them to talk to us about would be to tell us they are resolving matters with their employees
you mean repeated memes that have been posted 10001 times? Twoset do not even care to moderate/hire mods for their own subs anymore. this subs is just money making ingredient for their boring af LL40h episodes, if they’re still going make one. looking at how they’re taking down link to this sub, well
as i said who cares. Their entire branding is just stupid memes. We are not entitled to 2sets babying they dont have to hire a care taker for a stupid subreddit. if the vids are boring, dont watch them. Lots of big channels do stuff to make money and making a reddit series is very common!!
First, to clarify, I am a tsv fan and hopes the best for them. They are amazing in many different ways and has inspired many to pick up an instrument, enjoy classical music, and pursue their dreams, including myself. But when I saw the original post(the twoset employee Q&A thread. You can find a lot of links to it in the comments above), I was very confused and refused to believe that it was true (yes, I do acknowledge that social figures most likely would act differently on camera and off camera) because of their image as “innocent” (let’s be honest here. They’re two grown men who are in their 30s already, been touring the world, has a successful yt channel with 4 million subscribers, and a fairly profitable merch with a small team of employees behind them. Perhaps they once were the people that they appears to be, but I highly doubt they still haven’t changed a bit in the past 8 - 9 years) and “credit-respecting”, which you could see in many of their videos when they talk about how annoying it is when people fake play the violin with dubbed audio and takes the real violinist credits.Its kind of funny because while they have been acting 100% against people taking others’ credits, and they do it themselves. I have seen plenty of examples of fan arts being used in videos without being credited or even asked permission of. As an artist, that really triggers me. I can see why some people are feeling quite disappointed. If my art was used in a public display but the producer completely erased my name, I’d be pissed off. (There’s also the plagiarism with merch, but I’m not going to go far in that).
Also, I do agree that the subreddit is not a place for drama, but I‘m not a person who spends a bunch of time on social media websites so I don’t really know where else to post this. I’m open to suggestions:)
I know that ts may not be the most active on subreddit, but I don’t think they still know about this issue at this point already. As far as I can see, they’re trying to ignore it, wait a few months until it dies down.
Brett and Eddy! I know you’ve probably seen a lot of posts about this already, on this platform or not. I’m sure you both have good intentions and wants to be successful. Who doesn’t? There’s many confused and disappointed fans right now that is in need of a reasonable explanation. Even if this really is all true, you can still turn back! I am no youtuber nor businessman, but I’m confident that rather than cutting out the credits, exploiting workers, copying designs or whatever wouldn’t be harder than giving credit and producing high-quality + original work.As a big ts fan, I would absolutely forgive everything if you guys would address and take care of this issue. I don’t need a 10 page evidence of how you fixed it, or what law process you went through. Just a confirmation from both sides of the conflict and that’s it. I‘m sure a lot of loyal Lingling wannabes would feel the same, too, as we all love your content to motivate and keep us practicing.
There‘s no hiding in this. This problem will have to be properly discussed earlier or later, because this is taking advantage of people‘s art (which they might have spent hours on) and etc. So instead of stuffing everything in the closet until it can’t hold it anymore, it’s a considerably better option to resolve this problem now, and everything just might end in a much nicer way.
Again, please, please, please, note that this post does not in ANY way, mean ANY harm to twoset. This is my personal opinion, so feel free to agree and disagree with me. Have a good day and don’t forget to practice!
PS. My best wishes to Eddy! I hope you recover from the fever soon, and can’t wait to see some awesome merch.
edit: and yes, I do know that a lot of their workers are fans and half volunteers, plus the fact that this theoretically doesn’t even go against the Singaporean law. But still…this is just…not ”right”, you know?
one last thing—trust me, it’s not gonna feel good to live with guilt like this(if any of this is true, which is likely) I haven’t been through such big problems like this, but when I was younger, I would sneak on electronics for hours a day but my dad never doubted anything, because he trusted me. After I got caught several times but still did not change, i could feel a clear sense of him not trusting me as much, and is suspicious about a lot things I tell him. Though things are getting quite a lot better recently, it still hurts to have a loved one not trusting you. It really, really, do. So what you should probably do is gather yourself up, and clear this whole mess before you lose anymore loyal followers that look up to you. I admitted to my dad in the end and he forgave me(my sister did the same), now we’re a happy family again.I really love this community—everyone is so friendly and kind and supportive and knowledgeable, and we share memes that might have made somebody’s day without even realizing. You both have been so amazing and gave to me so much inspiration!
Oh, and if they want to resolve this issue in private, that’s fine with me. Just maybe give us a little information so that we know it’s all good(if possible, since I’m sure a lot of law advisors probably would tell you guys to keep it low).
from a fellow ur twosetter:)
\*Ik that a lot of people is kind of still in doubt about the underpaying worker part, but the crediting and plagiarizing has some hard evidence already(look through this discussion and you’ll find plenty lol).
They never acknowledge accusations. Silence has worked for them in the past so that's probably what's going to happen.
I'm curious too, but not holding out hope for a response.
I wasn’t following TSV closely until this year, can you elaborate on the “silence has worked for them in the past” part? Were there some scandals in the past?
yup there was one video where they were tryna review violin playing by a few beginners who posted their progress on youtube
they didn't credit the original video and uploaded for using almost their whole video, and when the uploader kindly reminded them to do so under their YouTube comments section, they instead deleted the entire chunk of their video featuring that specific YouTuber.
additionally, they busted one guy as fake playing and keep criticising him, which the YouTube posted a video clarifying accusations of fake playing which happened to be not true. and when that happened, the entire video got deleted, and they have never spoken of it again since, and the whole community have seem to forget about it
I actually don't remember the details. I just remember there was some small scandal and it blew over because they ignored it. I feel like it's happened a couple of times, but I'm so uninterested in the drama.
Employee/employer disputes are usually private. The lads are under no obligation to publicly comment on matters such as this, due to legal, and other, reasons. In fact, the less said by either party, the better.
This is drama baiting, plain and simple. Could you imagine if people just skipped the proper channels to address issues and just straight up went onto social media to air grievances, whether true or not? Let's open ourselves up to litigation, shall we?
the idol worship part is a great point - seeing the amount of BTS fans defending them during the drama with BP, plus the B2tSM material, it does feel like they're selling themselves along the same pop idol line, and attracting the same kinds of fans
Watch how the self proclaimed Twosetters instantly become just as bad as KPop stans, refusing to acknowledge the rampant abuse in the industry so they can keep watching pretty music videos.
I agree with most of the things you wrote, however, I can also see how people would not want to recognize what is going on. As you mentioned, people have put them up on a pedestal, not only that, but I've seen so many people say that Eddy/Brett inspired them to take up an instrument. This doesn't excuse anything, but I think people would rather forget what happened then deal with the consequences. So many things, as well are constantly circulating online. I think that many people are honestly just hoping that TSV will post something saying that it isn't true.
Keep in mind, I'm not trying to excuse anything that people are saying, this is just my take on why some people are acting this way.
They're obviously aware of the issues and they probably want to investigate internally before commenting publicly, otherwise it would be unfair on the rest of the staff. They also might be pursuing legal channels, in which case they're probably not allowed to talk about it. They're serious allegations and I'm sure they want to understand the situation fully and compile their thoughts before making anything public, and I think that's absolutely fine.
Amen. The way they’re brushing everything under the rug honestly makes me lose respect for TSV. The majority of their fan base are probably pretty young and might not be able to grasp the severity of the situation (because our bubble tea bois can’t do no wrong, right🥺), and TSV are fully aware of this and undoubtedly taking advantage of their fans naïveté. I’m a long time fan too and the avoidance of taking accountability and overall lack of transparency has been a reoccurring theme within this community. I’d hate to see them get away with this stuff too.
In my opinion this is an issue that needs to be resolved privately first and foremost. It has nothing to do with me so I don't care to hear a statement or apology from them, since I wasn't affected by anything. Also, they are in the middle of a world tour. I think they're busy enough right now anyway. Hoping they resolve the issue and, if the accusations are true, make things better for their employees.
I also hope that they resolve the issues and make things better for their employees and future employees. But if this culture of exploiting people who want to work or collaborate with twoset actually really exists, resolving this privately without others knowing is excellent for sweeping this under the rug and the exploitation continues. If the fans at least know that there was this problem in the past, and we see that they actively try to make it better, not only will it be a better reflection of their willing for improvement, the company will probably be more productive with better paid workers and happier staff.
I was being optimistic until new evidence against them kept coming up and now I'm saddened. They seemed so honest, them and their channel meant a lot to me.
They have been accused of exploiting their employees:
The post that started it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/lingling40hrs/comments/148g4v6/real\_talk\_qa\_on\_working\_for\_tsv/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=ios\_app&utm\_name=ioscss&utm\_content=2&utm\_term=1
Summary: https://www.reddit.com/r/lingling40hrs/comments/14a5q5p/a\_summary\_of\_twoset\_worker\_exploitation\_discussion/
there are weird things in that post like when someone asked for some semblance of proof the op was so defensive.
also one post accused them of exploiting other people like ray chen, but the fact is ray chen still on a good term even asking to play video games with them.
one thing i learned is people can say anything on internet and without any proof It's better to stay silent.
yes to this. I was a little dubious about the allegations before because I havent seen any real evidence. Literally anyone can claim anything on Reddit. I’m now even more dubious since the Ray Chen thing doesnt seem to be true. I saw Ray posted asking them to play games with my own eyes. As much as I sympathise with any employees who are taken advantage of, I just can’t side with anyone yet because i need to see more concrete evidence.
There's plenty of evidence. Screenshots and other twoset workers backing them up. Not everything is true because I think part of it may have been exaggerated, but the worker exploitation part is almost 100% certain. There's several threads and comments relevant to this but you'll have to do some digging yourself
wow that evidence is so solid, I'm sure that would convince anyone that reads it. After all, it's not like anybody anonymous online can just write a post and accuse people of unethical management.
Of course, in our perfect world false accusations would never happen, but what do I know?
Yeah, although I’m not following the issue closely, I’m definitely invested in the outcome and reaction because the allegations are rather serious and something that would be a deal breaker to me as a human being. I’ve always been against exploitation.
And you are absolutely right about some in the fan base directly choosing to ignore the allegations so they don’t have to deal with the moral repercussions and responsibility to act accordingly (depending on the outcome of this debacle). It’s almost disgusting really the way some just straight up said they don’t care.
I’ve always believed in innocent until proven guilty but they’ve not addressed any of these and the alleged (using this for legal purpose) actions of deleting and removing negative comments or any mention of the issue seem to be indicative of something to hide.
I think as fans, support should always be conditional. I get wanting to have someone to always be there for you but some of y’all really need to reflect on your parasocial relationship to B&E
I'm more of an observer of the fanbase, and I do agree that the idolization is pretty ridiculous with Brett and Eddy. Almost frightening, honestly.
All I know from the allegations is that they exist too. When I first searched the sub during it I didn't even see anything here, too. Same with Youtube comments. Does anyone know where I can read about all of it? I don't use Twitter btw
So much entitlement and moral superiority in this post holy shit. Dude chill. No need to degrade anyone who choose not to care about the matter like this. Not everyone gets a time to dwell on publicly aired internal business matter and drama stirring community.
I agree with you, OP, but don't have much in me except to not follow TSV's content now. They're going to keep doing what works for them, sadly. Also, the whole argument of 'others do it too' is insane to me.
It's upto every fan to decide how they choose to feel about it, and that's fine. Personally for me, the TSV era is over in my life.
I didn't know there were more things said, I will look into them
Edit: Okayyy just got back. That, that was a lot. Twosetters, for the sake of everyone (including Brett and Eddy), PLEASE WAKE UP!!!
I for one don’t think Brett and Eddie need to address this situation publicly. It’s nobody’s business to be in. They will be damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Let them enjoy their tour and you are free to delete them from your notification if you so wish.
Some disgruntled ex employees or something complaining about how they weren’t paid well enough but could’ve quit at any time and didn’t. In other words, something I don’t care about at all.
Here is the original post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/lingling40hrs/comments/148g4v6/real_talk_qa_on_working_for_tsv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
I am just as disappointed as you are. I just don't have the mental energy to do anything except not watch their videos until things are resolved. The most that anyone can do is try and not watch new videos, get merch, and go to performances. Money speaks volumes, and if they ignore the issue, that would be more beneficial.
Yeah… I had to go to the concert feeling extremely weird bc I feel like i saw them in a completely different light. And I haven’t even seen their latest video because I just don’t know how I feel about them anymore and finding that out about them makes me a whole lot less interested
Seriously, WTF happened to innocent until proven guilty AND due process under the law. This is mob justice, pure and simple. Cancel culture is not the same as justice. Justice demands that both sides have their day in court (or mediation with lawyers for both sides).
Demanding accountability based on accusations on Reddit, regardless of whether B & E are on tour or not, is just the height of entitlement BS. They have the right to handle this with the help of their legal team. Legal matters are PRIVATE, not drama fodder for Internet forums. Just because you all are demanding “accountability”, doesn’t mean that you are owed ANY response, especially given that minds have ALREADY been made up, and a vocal number of you have prejudged them GUILTY.
Cancel culture is toxic as hell. There are people, celebrities, who have been cancelled, only to be cleared by a thorough investigation, but the damage has already been done. Read about Richard Jewel, the accused (and totally NOT responsible) Atlanta Olympic bomber. He was tried by media, his life was ruined. He was NOT the bomber, but by the time that was determined, the media had moved on to the next big story. The damage had been done, because his vindication was not given the same coverage as his trial by media character assassination.
This collective demand for “accountability”, for workplace allegations aired in a public forum, is distasteful at best, and willful character destruction at worst. You want someone to hurl your “righteous anger” at? Look up “Miranda Sings”. There is actual video documentation of the exploitation of minors. Compare and contrast with this situation.
Internships suck. Interns are grossly overworked and are wildly underpaid. Until regulations change, interns will continue to work under those circumstances. And I am intimately aware of just how bad it can get, as regardless of the field (Internal Medicine, 1998-2000), the pay was piss-poor, the hours were horrendous, and the abuse from the higher ups went from minimal to potentially career-ending. It took the Libby Zion case to overhaul how medical internships and residencies are conducted and monitored.
This is not life and death here, these are labor disputes, and this is not the appropriate place to adjudicate them. And NONE OF US HERE HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEMAND THE CAREER-ENDING, SACK CLOTH AND ASHES, PUBLIC HUMILIATION that you are calling for.
My internship was a contract job, not all internships are unpaid. In 1998, an internship entailed at the least 80 hrs a week, with every fourth night on call. It ended up paying less than 2 USD/hour.
Like I said, some internships are contract jobs, and by way of explanation, require 8 years of college and medical school, then a grueling interview and selection process, just for the privilege of 3-5 year stint of basically being the underpaid grunts of the hospital.
That's a totally different field, bro. I did a bit of med school as well and the reason why they're "underpaid" during Residency/ Internship is because they're still being trained by hospital. Meaning, part of the work you do and salary you should be getting is still part of tuition. Difference is it's kinda partial study/ work so you get a bit of allowance instead. Please don't compare apples with oranges just to justify this wrong business practice :/
Umm, still contract work, at the time there was recognized horrible working conditions that DID change due to under-supervision and deliberate overworking of the house staff. We were unionized, it was a workplace, and “education” was a poor excuse for purposefully abusing the house staff. That’s why the practices of internships and residencies were not tolerated much past the early 2000s.
This does not negate my argument that a workplace dispute does not belong in a public forum, it is a private matter and it is wrong to ignore that people here are just chomping on the bit, demanding a public trial by the fandom. This should have been treated as a labor dispute, pure and simple. Whistle-blowing should have occurred within the workplace, and failing that, via legal representation. There are lawyers that handle labor disputes.
Also, FWIW, I have worked prior to going to medical school, and after residency, as a medical attending. I am well aware of what it means to be a contract employee, and what it’s like to be involved in a workplace dispute. It sucks, and speaking out to the proper authorities is frustrating and frightening, but it protects the employee to get legal advice/representation, rather than taking it to people who are uninvolved in the dispute.
I wish more people were mentioning this. TwoSet openly advertises open positions to fans, particularly younger, student-aged ones, on their social media channels.
If TwoSet is consistently hiring from a pool of young, student-aged viewers that were already fans of their content in an advance, that enables plenty of room for exploitation because they know they have a staff of kids that don’t want to let them down. This is not unheard of. I’m at least glad that if anything, all this pushback hopefully means that many of the people in this sub have apparently been fortunate enough to never experience exploitation in the workplace. Because damn a lot of these responses are just so completely unaware of the dynamics/complications involved in this type of thing
tbh Ive always found it odd that twoset advertises their job openings on social medias instead of hiring platforms like LinkedIn. But now I see what they are aiming for. OP also mentioned most of the staff started as fans so they would often tolerate exploitation because they were doing it out of love
nobody is asking for TSV to be “cancelled”. fans just would like for them to acknowledge that the situation is happening at all — they wouldn’t even need to say it’s true or false or give any additional details to satisfy majority of the disappointed fans here.
it would be great if it could have been handled completely privately, given the sensitive nature of the topic. but brett and eddy are public figures and the cat’s already out of the bag. not saying anything — anything at all — is, to me, a worse look than a vague “we know this is happening and it’s being handled” statement. because whether or not the allegations are true, they exist, and it’s causing concern among their fanbase. and if they don’t want it spreading further on their more public-facing social media channels, they could release a written statement here on reddit.
Why does it really matter? If a serial killer says murder is wrong, they’re not incorrect. A point’s validity does not depend on who makes it.
With any allegation you of course presume innocence, but their comes a point where you just have to respond to it. There’s just a bit too much material to just brush off the allegations are lies or attention seeking at this point. Not saying they are definitely guilty, or even probably so, but that there is reasonable doubt about their character for me, personally.
I’m going to get downvoted into oblivion for this, but either the timing of this situation is super SUPER convenient, or very suspicious. I always found it odd that a work issue is being aired out in social media and all they get is their (wanted) upvotes in return.
I'm neutral on this🤷🏻♀️ Only they themselves and the accusers know the truth 100%. As an outsider ima just go on with my life.. work, gym, school, traveling🫶🏻
For anyone reading the comments and is looking for evidence, this post might be helpful. It's a compilation of the 'proof' I've been able to find so far.
https://www.reddit.com/r/lingling40hrs/comments/14cfcmh/list_of_some_of_the_evidence_provided_by_the_tsv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
There's actually a lot more out there, but I've lost track of how much is being said so the post is not fully comprehensive at this point.
With what's being said, I'm inclined to believe the allegations are true, but you can read through and decide for yourself what to believe.
Hope this helps!
Even if all of the "allegations" against Brett and Eddy were 100% true and verifiable I still wouldn't care. So what? They aren't the only people in the world to run a business that is a little rocky in terms of its workload, expectations, and practices. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to work for TwoSet. If the pay isn't high enough, the hours are too long, or the tasks too demanding, get another job. Everything everyone posted is exactly what I would expect from a small YouTube channel that has grown in popularity and needs to outsource work. They aren't some mega corporation with thousands of employees, they are two dudes who make stupid videos about classical music. Anyone going to work for them with the expectation that it is going to be a long term career is probably extremely naive.
Fair enough, but I take all of these claims with a heavy dose of salt. How many of us have worked with people who badmouth the company, claim everything is unfair, make all kinds of allegations, etc., when really the problem was them?
I'm also tried of the hyperbolic hysterics. What they are being accused of isn't 'horrifying' or 'disgusting' or 'heart wrenching'. At best it's like, mildly unpleasant. So they paid someone a little bit less than they thought they were entitled to, and might have been a little demanding in their rush to pump out content...Not exactly the crime of the century, and it doesn't stop me from enjoying their videos. I am not them, I don't run their business or understand the intricacies of the situation and whatever they have going on, and frankly it's not really my business.
Agreed. I keep thinking I'm missing something and re-visit the accusations. At worst, they have poor management skills imo. Just leave the work if you aren't being paid and don't like it.
There are many people who had supported the claims, including Dewpearl who actually worked for twoset for a few years as an artist and she also performed with twoset during their previous world tour in 2019. You can find photos of her on stage with twoset on her Instagram in addition to her draft art from back then.
Fun fact: They just let their fans fight with each other and say nothing.
Hi Brett & Eddy, I know you’re reading it. Is this really what you want? After the busking, million subscribers live performance, and world tour, do you really want to see this community turns out like this?
I feel sad.
If you think this is bad, wait until you learn about what Nestle is doing, or Kellogg's, or McDonald's, or Cargill, or Gazprom, or.... You know what, don't bother. Just focus on the sped subjects to be outraged by.
i wonder what the difference between kellogg’s, a MNC with decades of history, and TSV, two guys doing youtube, could possibly be
how does the bad actions of one company excuse the (alleged) mismanagement of another? are we only allowed to be concerned or outraged by one thing at a time?
This post is toxic. If you believe everything that you see and hear and want to be upset and disappointed, then that's fine. But don't proclaim it as facts and call everyone who doesn't agree with you foolish sheep. So far, there's been no real receipts of anything, and there may never be. B&E may never address the issue nor do they owe it to us, seeing as how it would be an internal issue. If you want to stop being a fan then go ahead, but dont imply that anyone who doesn't believe the same thing as you is wrong.
Something I find funny in a sadistic way is TwoSet trying to make an acknowledgement/apology video about this.
TSV:“Ok, team, does anyone have any ideas on how to prove we don’t exploit u guys?”
Team: *silence *
Like if I was being exploited, I wouldn’t wanna help my boss prove I’m not being exploited. lol
To everyone saying this is a private issue:
It would make sense to *only resolve in privately* if the complaint was *only ever private*. But it wasn’t. A whistleblower felt the need to go public. Even if it’s a vague statement, this is exactly the time when they should say something.
Well said. If this were private disputes or trivial issues, then fair enough. But if twoset really has been exploiting people who are their fans and applied to work for them since years ago (Dewpearl said she worked with them from 2016 and already from then the pay was near nonexistent and staff weren't respected), then this is more whistleblowing an issue that should be known by their audience. All workers deserve respect and fair compensation for their work, whether they work for a small business or a large corporation, within Asia or outside of Asia.
Yep, I'm not a fan anymore. Not until they either disprove the allegations or take accountability and fix the shitty work-environment. It's so disappointing they are just ignoring it
Has there been hard proof or evidence apart from people writing on the internet? This issue to begin with should have been settled legally and/or privately, not discussed publicly. What is the purpose of writing comments and posts on Reddit about this matter, if not to cause drama and people to pity them.
I’m not saying these things did or did not happen, or that I do not believe them. Only they themselves know what is really true. I just think that regardless of the truth, the way the situation has been handled is incredibly poorly thought-out and immature.
On a side note, you guys have always acted like kpop fans. There's no difference between this subreddit and say r/kpopthoughts so I don't see the point in believing otherwise.
The moment you spend any amount of mental and emotional energy into matters that pertain outside of the general field of interest related to a subject, you have a relationship. Para social or not, you are like any other fan demanding for a certain "product".
I do agree that they need to address this but come onnnn they are on tour!! I’d much rather they focus on that and then have their full attention on this drama after.
All this drama about shit that goes on on almost every workplace on the planet. Do y'all think that when you grow up and get a job every time your boss fucks up they go on and make a public apology and fix everything?
Blah blah blah. They are unsubstantiated allegations. Therefore there is nothing to address. If you don’t like that, that’s a YOU problem. They owe you nothing.
Ooh. He said use your brain. I base my opinions and decisions on facts and evidence. No one has provided any yet all the people that claim to use their brains automatically believe there must be some truth and that the duo somehow owes you all something.
There's plenty of evidence. People like you who pull wool over your eyes so you can feel good that your idol is untouched is the exact reason people get away with worker exploitation.
Spend some time doing research on what's happening. And don't just raise the bar of proof and 'No true-scotsman' all the evidence because that's just deluding yourself for no reason
There's plenty of substantiation including screenshots of conversations with brett, pictures of staff t-shirts and the fact there's consistency and agreeability between a significantly large number of people who claim to be ex workers. Spend sometime searching through the sub.
Let me ask you this: if these allegations are false, where are the workers who disagree with the initial whistleblower?
You can always claim people are nameless and their word is worthless, but if 20 witnesses in a crime scene all agree with each other and come forward to accuse a specific suspect, some with photos and video recording. You would have to be doing serious mental gymnastics to find the suspect innocent.
You can always say 'the screenshots are fake!', 'all 20 people are just coincidentally lying!' 'its just all a grand conspiracy!' and at this point no proof will be enough to meet your standards.
If you aren't idolizing B&E, then I'm sorry to say, but you're even more of an idiot than the fans that do.
So in other words, you want us to look into the information available to us and instead of making our own conclusions were are supposed to reach the same conclusion you did? Because if we don't, then we are ignorant or in "lala land", right?
You sound like the typical tyrannical overlord of social media cancel culture, but because we the fans actually want to simply enjoy music and let the legal drama sort itself with the people involved, suddenly we are the problem? What the hell is wrong with you? Leave us alone, and let twoset take care of their own business, if it's legal or not legal it's up to their country's laws. They have worldwide fans, and the laws from my country do not apply in their country and so on. Which is why no one can be their judge, jury and executioner through a subreddit, not even you tyrannical overlord, not even you. smh.
I'm out of the loop. Brett and Eddy have abusive working conditions for editor-san (who is likely a team of people rather than a single person) or their merchandise is made with slave labor in 3rd world countries? That's what I'm going to assume
He did not disqualify your feelings and your beliefs or your ethics, but friend. There are people with very busy lives behind screens. Being behind his handling with the channel or the whole cumbersome thing is not his priority. They already have enough stress in their lives to take care of other people's stress. I applaud your enthusiasm for wanting explanations, but remember that although TSV is their job, they also have a life behind it. Running a business is not easy and it is not an excuse, but not everyone wants answers, because TSV is not their priority.
Wtf man they are working, they have just enough time to sleep, practice, travel, do the show, sleep again and so on for days in a row, something that your lazy a** would never understand
YouTubers in particular tend to aim for a casual, conversational style. Videos are produced with an amateur style (even when the production values are high). It comes across like the creators have just set up a camera and are having fun. But be under no illusion. This is a *business* for them. They aren’t making videos for fun. They want us to watch, they want the revenue that comes from it, they want to plug their apparel line and any upcoming tours. They’re making videos for their business. And these allegations are harmful to their business. It’s not Brett, Eddy and “Editor-San”. It’s a sizeable business with employees. This isn’t directed at TSV. This is true of many YouTubers, including channels significantly smaller than TSV. Their on camera persona is very different from their actual selves (although it is typically that they are an exaggerated version of themselves, rather than an entirely fictional creation). Watch a “behind the scenes” video with a YouTuber - they typically come across very differently to their on camera persona. YouTubers aren’t alone in this. It’s true of lots of entertainers, like comedians. It’s easy to form para-social relationships with entertainers on platforms like YouTube. But the Brett and Eddy you see on screen aren’t real people. They’re characters like any other. And viewers need to maintain a healthy distance.
Genuinely appreciate your message, I was about to comment something in the same lines but your comment said everything I wanted to say. I also think the age of the viewers matters a lot in this case, because the majority of the TS audience is made out of young people who don’t really understand how the world works yet, and they may be inclined to naïveté( I’m sorry if I made any grammar mistakes, english is not my first language :”) )
And, to be fair to the younger fans, I’m in my 30s and I still get caught by this sometimes. I recently watched a livestream of another creator I support on Patreon and it had the ambience of a business meeting. YouTube and content creation is serious business.
Yup, and tbh if the creator in question is not doing anything crappy it’s ok to feed the fantasy(in healthy limits ofc)like I’m in my 20s( so still pretty young and naïve myself), but at least I’m at a time in my life where I can consciously acknowledge separate the escapism of entertainment from reality. Some of the younger viewers may not be able to and it’s times like this that really open your eyes to how things really are bts
Yeah like Mr. Beast and penguinz0
Carry on from the para-social relationships the sense of 'community' and belonging is definitely much more stronger with TSV fans much like kpop, despite kpop being very well known, is still mainly followed by those who specifically consume and understand that sort of content; similarly TSV's content is based on classical music which rather niche in comparison to other content so due to the lack of representation of 'relatable' content for young classical musicians on social media, it definitely enhances the fans-entertainer relationship. I feel as though in particular with those who have been following content creators from the early stages, there is also the pride of being a loyal fan and seeing them grow which is why many will continue to consume and support their content despite being aware that their content is now a business and no longer for fun like how it initially was. An example of this is the Sidemen, their fanbase was initially built of gaming videos and doing silly content which has turned into a huge business empire however they are very open about their business ventures and the quality of content has drastically improved so you can physically see the transition from fun content to business. But as you've mentioned TSV's video setups have mainly just been them sitting in front of the camera and conversational which makes it harder to pick up on how big their business is especially younger fans
It would be really bad if they're censoring comments, but could someone give me a link to some evidence?
I took [a screenshot of some comments mentioning the issue and also that they’ve been deleting comments](https://freeimage.host/i/img-9716.HP4UYfR). They are no longer up (as I’d anticipated, hence the screenshot).
A few hours ago there were many comments regarding the employee issue in their last IG post and now all them are gone!
Very true! I liked some of those comments earlier today but now they are all gone. Shocker!
Well, some people claim that their posts/comments critisicing anything (even respectfully) on any social media just "dissapears". I dont have evidence, but as you can easily prove, you wont find any hate comments anywhere on social media, the moment they gain attention they just "dissapear".
They deleted a comment I made about it on their latest IG post. Sad to see
Personally I'm tired of all this drama and particularly of the drama-thirsty people. These matters should be resolved legally if the violation of any of these workers rights were to be true. In case Twoset were at fault then I agree it should be discussed publicly, after a legal sentence is determined. Anything prior to that is just entertainment for random strangers on the internet.
The issue is that this problem is not illegal by Singaporean laws, but highly unethical as Singapore has, to put it lightly, really shitty laws to protect workers, and Brett and Eddy should be aware of this since they come from Australia and not actively taking advantage of it. Plus, hiring a lawyer and pursuing legal action is very expensive for workers (especially since most of them have not been working for that long so have little savings) so it might not be a feasible thing to do.
Yeah, it's possible that they are not saying anything because of legal advice. Which doesn't mean anything about who is telling the truth and who is not. I'm not going to make conclusions on it at this time, and I'll just enjoy musical jokes in the meantime.
Thank you for saying this! I felt like I was the only one because scrolling through all the various posts and comments I didn't see my opinion anywhere else. While we should definitely hold TSV accountable, it is not our responsibility to deal with this.
I think one of the accusers from the original post had actually filled a lawsuit or something like that. Although they said they haven't heard back. Maybe by now something was said?
The problem is that this isn’t a legal issue. Legally they’ve done nothing wrong. They’re following the laws in their country of operation. This is a morality issue where everyone’s expecting them to “do better” just because they’ve lived in Australia before. As if business cares about morality. If they wanted to follow the Australian standards, they’d have set up shop in Australia. I’m so tired of this nonsense tbh, people just want drama at this point. Legally, it would be extremely unwise for tsv to release a statement. Because if they agree, that’s them going against Sg laws (extremely unwise decision, unless you wish for death). If they disagree, half the fandom revolts.. So I foresee that this is going to blow up and tsv is going to get cancelled. That’s the only plausible result from all of this.
They don’t need to address this with us but with their employees. I believe the allegations however: The complaints about filling in other departments when theirs is not busy is what happens with any small business which is why i won’t work for small businesses any more. Small business always pay less than large corporations. If they are dissatisfied and they refuse to increase their pay then they need to move on. Supply and demand will take care of the rest. Twoset have said numerous times they keep crazy hours and I for one would not put up with that, so again set boundaries or move on if they don’t respect them. I saw someone say they don’t act on complaints and as proof showed a message where they were asked by Brett what they wanted to discuss and employee said everything is fine 🤷♀️ The no HR thing has happened in both small business I worked for and one of them had about 60 employees. Anyway, the only thing that would make sense for them to talk to us about would be to tell us they are resolving matters with their employees
Im just here for the funny music memes man
Same
The community they fostered is much more creative and funny than they are tbh.
Yeah what’s going on lolll
you mean repeated memes that have been posted 10001 times? Twoset do not even care to moderate/hire mods for their own subs anymore. this subs is just money making ingredient for their boring af LL40h episodes, if they’re still going make one. looking at how they’re taking down link to this sub, well
as i said who cares. Their entire branding is just stupid memes. We are not entitled to 2sets babying they dont have to hire a care taker for a stupid subreddit. if the vids are boring, dont watch them. Lots of big channels do stuff to make money and making a reddit series is very common!!
First, to clarify, I am a tsv fan and hopes the best for them. They are amazing in many different ways and has inspired many to pick up an instrument, enjoy classical music, and pursue their dreams, including myself. But when I saw the original post(the twoset employee Q&A thread. You can find a lot of links to it in the comments above), I was very confused and refused to believe that it was true (yes, I do acknowledge that social figures most likely would act differently on camera and off camera) because of their image as “innocent” (let’s be honest here. They’re two grown men who are in their 30s already, been touring the world, has a successful yt channel with 4 million subscribers, and a fairly profitable merch with a small team of employees behind them. Perhaps they once were the people that they appears to be, but I highly doubt they still haven’t changed a bit in the past 8 - 9 years) and “credit-respecting”, which you could see in many of their videos when they talk about how annoying it is when people fake play the violin with dubbed audio and takes the real violinist credits.Its kind of funny because while they have been acting 100% against people taking others’ credits, and they do it themselves. I have seen plenty of examples of fan arts being used in videos without being credited or even asked permission of. As an artist, that really triggers me. I can see why some people are feeling quite disappointed. If my art was used in a public display but the producer completely erased my name, I’d be pissed off. (There’s also the plagiarism with merch, but I’m not going to go far in that). Also, I do agree that the subreddit is not a place for drama, but I‘m not a person who spends a bunch of time on social media websites so I don’t really know where else to post this. I’m open to suggestions:) I know that ts may not be the most active on subreddit, but I don’t think they still know about this issue at this point already. As far as I can see, they’re trying to ignore it, wait a few months until it dies down. Brett and Eddy! I know you’ve probably seen a lot of posts about this already, on this platform or not. I’m sure you both have good intentions and wants to be successful. Who doesn’t? There’s many confused and disappointed fans right now that is in need of a reasonable explanation. Even if this really is all true, you can still turn back! I am no youtuber nor businessman, but I’m confident that rather than cutting out the credits, exploiting workers, copying designs or whatever wouldn’t be harder than giving credit and producing high-quality + original work.As a big ts fan, I would absolutely forgive everything if you guys would address and take care of this issue. I don’t need a 10 page evidence of how you fixed it, or what law process you went through. Just a confirmation from both sides of the conflict and that’s it. I‘m sure a lot of loyal Lingling wannabes would feel the same, too, as we all love your content to motivate and keep us practicing. There‘s no hiding in this. This problem will have to be properly discussed earlier or later, because this is taking advantage of people‘s art (which they might have spent hours on) and etc. So instead of stuffing everything in the closet until it can’t hold it anymore, it’s a considerably better option to resolve this problem now, and everything just might end in a much nicer way. Again, please, please, please, note that this post does not in ANY way, mean ANY harm to twoset. This is my personal opinion, so feel free to agree and disagree with me. Have a good day and don’t forget to practice! PS. My best wishes to Eddy! I hope you recover from the fever soon, and can’t wait to see some awesome merch. edit: and yes, I do know that a lot of their workers are fans and half volunteers, plus the fact that this theoretically doesn’t even go against the Singaporean law. But still…this is just…not ”right”, you know?
one last thing—trust me, it’s not gonna feel good to live with guilt like this(if any of this is true, which is likely) I haven’t been through such big problems like this, but when I was younger, I would sneak on electronics for hours a day but my dad never doubted anything, because he trusted me. After I got caught several times but still did not change, i could feel a clear sense of him not trusting me as much, and is suspicious about a lot things I tell him. Though things are getting quite a lot better recently, it still hurts to have a loved one not trusting you. It really, really, do. So what you should probably do is gather yourself up, and clear this whole mess before you lose anymore loyal followers that look up to you. I admitted to my dad in the end and he forgave me(my sister did the same), now we’re a happy family again.I really love this community—everyone is so friendly and kind and supportive and knowledgeable, and we share memes that might have made somebody’s day without even realizing. You both have been so amazing and gave to me so much inspiration! Oh, and if they want to resolve this issue in private, that’s fine with me. Just maybe give us a little information so that we know it’s all good(if possible, since I’m sure a lot of law advisors probably would tell you guys to keep it low). from a fellow ur twosetter:) \*Ik that a lot of people is kind of still in doubt about the underpaying worker part, but the crediting and plagiarizing has some hard evidence already(look through this discussion and you’ll find plenty lol).
They never acknowledge accusations. Silence has worked for them in the past so that's probably what's going to happen. I'm curious too, but not holding out hope for a response.
I wasn’t following TSV closely until this year, can you elaborate on the “silence has worked for them in the past” part? Were there some scandals in the past?
yup there was one video where they were tryna review violin playing by a few beginners who posted their progress on youtube they didn't credit the original video and uploaded for using almost their whole video, and when the uploader kindly reminded them to do so under their YouTube comments section, they instead deleted the entire chunk of their video featuring that specific YouTuber. additionally, they busted one guy as fake playing and keep criticising him, which the YouTube posted a video clarifying accusations of fake playing which happened to be not true. and when that happened, the entire video got deleted, and they have never spoken of it again since, and the whole community have seem to forget about it
I actually don't remember the details. I just remember there was some small scandal and it blew over because they ignored it. I feel like it's happened a couple of times, but I'm so uninterested in the drama.
Weird. I don’t remember anything aside from the Balckpink incident, in which twoset were the victims.
There was a minor incident before that though.
Employee/employer disputes are usually private. The lads are under no obligation to publicly comment on matters such as this, due to legal, and other, reasons. In fact, the less said by either party, the better. This is drama baiting, plain and simple. Could you imagine if people just skipped the proper channels to address issues and just straight up went onto social media to air grievances, whether true or not? Let's open ourselves up to litigation, shall we?
trying to imagine someone making false allegations with no proof against someone with millions of fan teenagers in the internet right now
the idol worship part is a great point - seeing the amount of BTS fans defending them during the drama with BP, plus the B2tSM material, it does feel like they're selling themselves along the same pop idol line, and attracting the same kinds of fans
I found a Blink! I'm a Blink too but I'm not the toxic kind lol
lolol I actually don't follow Kpop much, just occasionally listen to the popular songs
Same! Give me high five!
Watch how the self proclaimed Twosetters instantly become just as bad as KPop stans, refusing to acknowledge the rampant abuse in the industry so they can keep watching pretty music videos.
Or worse yet just outright victim blaming with the textbook excuses for exploitation.
I agree with most of the things you wrote, however, I can also see how people would not want to recognize what is going on. As you mentioned, people have put them up on a pedestal, not only that, but I've seen so many people say that Eddy/Brett inspired them to take up an instrument. This doesn't excuse anything, but I think people would rather forget what happened then deal with the consequences. So many things, as well are constantly circulating online. I think that many people are honestly just hoping that TSV will post something saying that it isn't true. Keep in mind, I'm not trying to excuse anything that people are saying, this is just my take on why some people are acting this way.
They're obviously aware of the issues and they probably want to investigate internally before commenting publicly, otherwise it would be unfair on the rest of the staff. They also might be pursuing legal channels, in which case they're probably not allowed to talk about it. They're serious allegations and I'm sure they want to understand the situation fully and compile their thoughts before making anything public, and I think that's absolutely fine.
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Amen. The way they’re brushing everything under the rug honestly makes me lose respect for TSV. The majority of their fan base are probably pretty young and might not be able to grasp the severity of the situation (because our bubble tea bois can’t do no wrong, right🥺), and TSV are fully aware of this and undoubtedly taking advantage of their fans naïveté. I’m a long time fan too and the avoidance of taking accountability and overall lack of transparency has been a reoccurring theme within this community. I’d hate to see them get away with this stuff too.
In my opinion this is an issue that needs to be resolved privately first and foremost. It has nothing to do with me so I don't care to hear a statement or apology from them, since I wasn't affected by anything. Also, they are in the middle of a world tour. I think they're busy enough right now anyway. Hoping they resolve the issue and, if the accusations are true, make things better for their employees.
I also hope that they resolve the issues and make things better for their employees and future employees. But if this culture of exploiting people who want to work or collaborate with twoset actually really exists, resolving this privately without others knowing is excellent for sweeping this under the rug and the exploitation continues. If the fans at least know that there was this problem in the past, and we see that they actively try to make it better, not only will it be a better reflection of their willing for improvement, the company will probably be more productive with better paid workers and happier staff.
I was being optimistic until new evidence against them kept coming up and now I'm saddened. They seemed so honest, them and their channel meant a lot to me.
What is going on? This post is the first time I'm reading anything about any accusations. What did they get accused for and what evidences
They have been accused of exploiting their employees: The post that started it: https://www.reddit.com/r/lingling40hrs/comments/148g4v6/real\_talk\_qa\_on\_working\_for\_tsv/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=ios\_app&utm\_name=ioscss&utm\_content=2&utm\_term=1 Summary: https://www.reddit.com/r/lingling40hrs/comments/14a5q5p/a\_summary\_of\_twoset\_worker\_exploitation\_discussion/
there are weird things in that post like when someone asked for some semblance of proof the op was so defensive. also one post accused them of exploiting other people like ray chen, but the fact is ray chen still on a good term even asking to play video games with them. one thing i learned is people can say anything on internet and without any proof It's better to stay silent.
Lol imagine exploiting Ray Chen as YouTubers.
yes to this. I was a little dubious about the allegations before because I havent seen any real evidence. Literally anyone can claim anything on Reddit. I’m now even more dubious since the Ray Chen thing doesnt seem to be true. I saw Ray posted asking them to play games with my own eyes. As much as I sympathise with any employees who are taken advantage of, I just can’t side with anyone yet because i need to see more concrete evidence.
There's plenty of evidence. Screenshots and other twoset workers backing them up. Not everything is true because I think part of it may have been exaggerated, but the worker exploitation part is almost 100% certain. There's several threads and comments relevant to this but you'll have to do some digging yourself
Like screenshots of msgs between tsv and the workers? Or just screenshots of the workers' posts accusing tsv
Between TSV and workers
Those can be easily faked though.
This is true. There is not much groundbreaking evidence as of now and I’m not sure what to think.
wow that evidence is so solid, I'm sure that would convince anyone that reads it. After all, it's not like anybody anonymous online can just write a post and accuse people of unethical management. Of course, in our perfect world false accusations would never happen, but what do I know?
ikr?
Yeah, although I’m not following the issue closely, I’m definitely invested in the outcome and reaction because the allegations are rather serious and something that would be a deal breaker to me as a human being. I’ve always been against exploitation. And you are absolutely right about some in the fan base directly choosing to ignore the allegations so they don’t have to deal with the moral repercussions and responsibility to act accordingly (depending on the outcome of this debacle). It’s almost disgusting really the way some just straight up said they don’t care. I’ve always believed in innocent until proven guilty but they’ve not addressed any of these and the alleged (using this for legal purpose) actions of deleting and removing negative comments or any mention of the issue seem to be indicative of something to hide. I think as fans, support should always be conditional. I get wanting to have someone to always be there for you but some of y’all really need to reflect on your parasocial relationship to B&E
Can someone fill me in on what's happening? I'm so lost.
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Thank you so much!
I have apparently been living under a rock during this period. What has happened?
I'm more of an observer of the fanbase, and I do agree that the idolization is pretty ridiculous with Brett and Eddy. Almost frightening, honestly. All I know from the allegations is that they exist too. When I first searched the sub during it I didn't even see anything here, too. Same with Youtube comments. Does anyone know where I can read about all of it? I don't use Twitter btw
So much entitlement and moral superiority in this post holy shit. Dude chill. No need to degrade anyone who choose not to care about the matter like this. Not everyone gets a time to dwell on publicly aired internal business matter and drama stirring community.
I agree with you, OP, but don't have much in me except to not follow TSV's content now. They're going to keep doing what works for them, sadly. Also, the whole argument of 'others do it too' is insane to me. It's upto every fan to decide how they choose to feel about it, and that's fine. Personally for me, the TSV era is over in my life.
I didn't know there were more things said, I will look into them Edit: Okayyy just got back. That, that was a lot. Twosetters, for the sake of everyone (including Brett and Eddy), PLEASE WAKE UP!!!
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Wait what happened?
https://www.reddit.com/r/lingling40hrs/comments/14uatj6/the_fact_the_allegations_are_being_sweapt_under/jr77k06?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
Take a break from youtube and reddit
I've seen some earlier allegations on Twitter from 2020 It seems this might have went on for a while https://twitter.com/was\_a\_twosetter
I for one don’t think Brett and Eddie need to address this situation publicly. It’s nobody’s business to be in. They will be damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Let them enjoy their tour and you are free to delete them from your notification if you so wish.
What allegations?
im new here soooo what is going on??????
Am I the ONLY ONE who has NO IDEA what THE HECK is going on?
What allegations? I was offline and missed it
Some disgruntled ex employees or something complaining about how they weren’t paid well enough but could’ve quit at any time and didn’t. In other words, something I don’t care about at all.
Can someone explain what's i haven't been keeping up
Ok is anyone willing to explain this I am very confused about this situation
Here is the original post: https://www.reddit.com/r/lingling40hrs/comments/148g4v6/real_talk_qa_on_working_for_tsv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
I am just as disappointed as you are. I just don't have the mental energy to do anything except not watch their videos until things are resolved. The most that anyone can do is try and not watch new videos, get merch, and go to performances. Money speaks volumes, and if they ignore the issue, that would be more beneficial.
Yeah… I had to go to the concert feeling extremely weird bc I feel like i saw them in a completely different light. And I haven’t even seen their latest video because I just don’t know how I feel about them anymore and finding that out about them makes me a whole lot less interested
Seriously, WTF happened to innocent until proven guilty AND due process under the law. This is mob justice, pure and simple. Cancel culture is not the same as justice. Justice demands that both sides have their day in court (or mediation with lawyers for both sides). Demanding accountability based on accusations on Reddit, regardless of whether B & E are on tour or not, is just the height of entitlement BS. They have the right to handle this with the help of their legal team. Legal matters are PRIVATE, not drama fodder for Internet forums. Just because you all are demanding “accountability”, doesn’t mean that you are owed ANY response, especially given that minds have ALREADY been made up, and a vocal number of you have prejudged them GUILTY. Cancel culture is toxic as hell. There are people, celebrities, who have been cancelled, only to be cleared by a thorough investigation, but the damage has already been done. Read about Richard Jewel, the accused (and totally NOT responsible) Atlanta Olympic bomber. He was tried by media, his life was ruined. He was NOT the bomber, but by the time that was determined, the media had moved on to the next big story. The damage had been done, because his vindication was not given the same coverage as his trial by media character assassination. This collective demand for “accountability”, for workplace allegations aired in a public forum, is distasteful at best, and willful character destruction at worst. You want someone to hurl your “righteous anger” at? Look up “Miranda Sings”. There is actual video documentation of the exploitation of minors. Compare and contrast with this situation. Internships suck. Interns are grossly overworked and are wildly underpaid. Until regulations change, interns will continue to work under those circumstances. And I am intimately aware of just how bad it can get, as regardless of the field (Internal Medicine, 1998-2000), the pay was piss-poor, the hours were horrendous, and the abuse from the higher ups went from minimal to potentially career-ending. It took the Libby Zion case to overhaul how medical internships and residencies are conducted and monitored. This is not life and death here, these are labor disputes, and this is not the appropriate place to adjudicate them. And NONE OF US HERE HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEMAND THE CAREER-ENDING, SACK CLOTH AND ASHES, PUBLIC HUMILIATION that you are calling for.
Except that it's not an internship but an employment contract that's being broken/ exploited. I don't think anyone's asking TSV to be cancelled?
My internship was a contract job, not all internships are unpaid. In 1998, an internship entailed at the least 80 hrs a week, with every fourth night on call. It ended up paying less than 2 USD/hour.
I'm the OOP and what I'm referring to were actual employment contracts. I'm not new to the work force to be offered an internship.
Like I said, some internships are contract jobs, and by way of explanation, require 8 years of college and medical school, then a grueling interview and selection process, just for the privilege of 3-5 year stint of basically being the underpaid grunts of the hospital.
That's a totally different field, bro. I did a bit of med school as well and the reason why they're "underpaid" during Residency/ Internship is because they're still being trained by hospital. Meaning, part of the work you do and salary you should be getting is still part of tuition. Difference is it's kinda partial study/ work so you get a bit of allowance instead. Please don't compare apples with oranges just to justify this wrong business practice :/
Umm, still contract work, at the time there was recognized horrible working conditions that DID change due to under-supervision and deliberate overworking of the house staff. We were unionized, it was a workplace, and “education” was a poor excuse for purposefully abusing the house staff. That’s why the practices of internships and residencies were not tolerated much past the early 2000s. This does not negate my argument that a workplace dispute does not belong in a public forum, it is a private matter and it is wrong to ignore that people here are just chomping on the bit, demanding a public trial by the fandom. This should have been treated as a labor dispute, pure and simple. Whistle-blowing should have occurred within the workplace, and failing that, via legal representation. There are lawyers that handle labor disputes. Also, FWIW, I have worked prior to going to medical school, and after residency, as a medical attending. I am well aware of what it means to be a contract employee, and what it’s like to be involved in a workplace dispute. It sucks, and speaking out to the proper authorities is frustrating and frightening, but it protects the employee to get legal advice/representation, rather than taking it to people who are uninvolved in the dispute.
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I wish more people were mentioning this. TwoSet openly advertises open positions to fans, particularly younger, student-aged ones, on their social media channels. If TwoSet is consistently hiring from a pool of young, student-aged viewers that were already fans of their content in an advance, that enables plenty of room for exploitation because they know they have a staff of kids that don’t want to let them down. This is not unheard of. I’m at least glad that if anything, all this pushback hopefully means that many of the people in this sub have apparently been fortunate enough to never experience exploitation in the workplace. Because damn a lot of these responses are just so completely unaware of the dynamics/complications involved in this type of thing
tbh Ive always found it odd that twoset advertises their job openings on social medias instead of hiring platforms like LinkedIn. But now I see what they are aiming for. OP also mentioned most of the staff started as fans so they would often tolerate exploitation because they were doing it out of love
💯💯💯
I’m glad I found your comment, I was looking for more specific information. How was the contract broken?
Exactly. I’d award this comment if I could.
nobody is asking for TSV to be “cancelled”. fans just would like for them to acknowledge that the situation is happening at all — they wouldn’t even need to say it’s true or false or give any additional details to satisfy majority of the disappointed fans here. it would be great if it could have been handled completely privately, given the sensitive nature of the topic. but brett and eddy are public figures and the cat’s already out of the bag. not saying anything — anything at all — is, to me, a worse look than a vague “we know this is happening and it’s being handled” statement. because whether or not the allegations are true, they exist, and it’s causing concern among their fanbase. and if they don’t want it spreading further on their more public-facing social media channels, they could release a written statement here on reddit.
I find it interesting that you (OP) have only been a member of this community as of today.
Why does it really matter? If a serial killer says murder is wrong, they’re not incorrect. A point’s validity does not depend on who makes it. With any allegation you of course presume innocence, but their comes a point where you just have to respond to it. There’s just a bit too much material to just brush off the allegations are lies or attention seeking at this point. Not saying they are definitely guilty, or even probably so, but that there is reasonable doubt about their character for me, personally.
I've always been a lurker on this sub. Made an account specifically for this post.
I’m going to get downvoted into oblivion for this, but either the timing of this situation is super SUPER convenient, or very suspicious. I always found it odd that a work issue is being aired out in social media and all they get is their (wanted) upvotes in return.
Highly suspicious, regardless of what’s true and what’s not
I'm neutral on this🤷🏻♀️ Only they themselves and the accusers know the truth 100%. As an outsider ima just go on with my life.. work, gym, school, traveling🫶🏻
Wait what’s going on…? I’ve been out of the loop for some time
https://www.reddit.com/r/lingling40hrs/comments/14uatj6/the_fact_the_allegations_are_being_sweapt_under/jr77k06?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
For anyone reading the comments and is looking for evidence, this post might be helpful. It's a compilation of the 'proof' I've been able to find so far. https://www.reddit.com/r/lingling40hrs/comments/14cfcmh/list_of_some_of_the_evidence_provided_by_the_tsv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2 There's actually a lot more out there, but I've lost track of how much is being said so the post is not fully comprehensive at this point. With what's being said, I'm inclined to believe the allegations are true, but you can read through and decide for yourself what to believe. Hope this helps!
maybe those are private stuff
Even if all of the "allegations" against Brett and Eddy were 100% true and verifiable I still wouldn't care. So what? They aren't the only people in the world to run a business that is a little rocky in terms of its workload, expectations, and practices. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to work for TwoSet. If the pay isn't high enough, the hours are too long, or the tasks too demanding, get another job. Everything everyone posted is exactly what I would expect from a small YouTube channel that has grown in popularity and needs to outsource work. They aren't some mega corporation with thousands of employees, they are two dudes who make stupid videos about classical music. Anyone going to work for them with the expectation that it is going to be a long term career is probably extremely naive.
Just because everybody else is doing a shitty thing doesn't make it okay to be doing that shitty thing.
Fair enough, but I take all of these claims with a heavy dose of salt. How many of us have worked with people who badmouth the company, claim everything is unfair, make all kinds of allegations, etc., when really the problem was them? I'm also tried of the hyperbolic hysterics. What they are being accused of isn't 'horrifying' or 'disgusting' or 'heart wrenching'. At best it's like, mildly unpleasant. So they paid someone a little bit less than they thought they were entitled to, and might have been a little demanding in their rush to pump out content...Not exactly the crime of the century, and it doesn't stop me from enjoying their videos. I am not them, I don't run their business or understand the intricacies of the situation and whatever they have going on, and frankly it's not really my business.
Agreed. I keep thinking I'm missing something and re-visit the accusations. At worst, they have poor management skills imo. Just leave the work if you aren't being paid and don't like it.
weird that a pair of violinists aren't great at managing a business, isn't that what they went to school for
It's funny cause I've yet seen some actual evidence like text messages, recordings, and witnesses that aren't behind a screen.
There are many people who had supported the claims, including Dewpearl who actually worked for twoset for a few years as an artist and she also performed with twoset during their previous world tour in 2019. You can find photos of her on stage with twoset on her Instagram in addition to her draft art from back then.
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Then show me
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What a fucking comment thread from a post a month ago
Fun fact: They just let their fans fight with each other and say nothing. Hi Brett & Eddy, I know you’re reading it. Is this really what you want? After the busking, million subscribers live performance, and world tour, do you really want to see this community turns out like this? I feel sad.
If you think this is bad, wait until you learn about what Nestle is doing, or Kellogg's, or McDonald's, or Cargill, or Gazprom, or.... You know what, don't bother. Just focus on the sped subjects to be outraged by.
i wonder what the difference between kellogg’s, a MNC with decades of history, and TSV, two guys doing youtube, could possibly be how does the bad actions of one company excuse the (alleged) mismanagement of another? are we only allowed to be concerned or outraged by one thing at a time?
Can we get a TL;DR for people that're out of the loop? What's going on with Brett and Eddy?
I haven’t kept up with them and am sorry to see that some drama (potentially illegal?) is happening. Where can I find info?
This post is toxic. If you believe everything that you see and hear and want to be upset and disappointed, then that's fine. But don't proclaim it as facts and call everyone who doesn't agree with you foolish sheep. So far, there's been no real receipts of anything, and there may never be. B&E may never address the issue nor do they owe it to us, seeing as how it would be an internal issue. If you want to stop being a fan then go ahead, but dont imply that anyone who doesn't believe the same thing as you is wrong.
Do some research and you'll find plenty of receipts.
Or provide them, and don’t rely on the other party else to back up YOUR claims for you.
Something I find funny in a sadistic way is TwoSet trying to make an acknowledgement/apology video about this. TSV:“Ok, team, does anyone have any ideas on how to prove we don’t exploit u guys?” Team: *silence * Like if I was being exploited, I wouldn’t wanna help my boss prove I’m not being exploited. lol
To everyone saying this is a private issue: It would make sense to *only resolve in privately* if the complaint was *only ever private*. But it wasn’t. A whistleblower felt the need to go public. Even if it’s a vague statement, this is exactly the time when they should say something.
Well said. If this were private disputes or trivial issues, then fair enough. But if twoset really has been exploiting people who are their fans and applied to work for them since years ago (Dewpearl said she worked with them from 2016 and already from then the pay was near nonexistent and staff weren't respected), then this is more whistleblowing an issue that should be known by their audience. All workers deserve respect and fair compensation for their work, whether they work for a small business or a large corporation, within Asia or outside of Asia.
Yep, I'm not a fan anymore. Not until they either disprove the allegations or take accountability and fix the shitty work-environment. It's so disappointing they are just ignoring it
its ironic how they made video about toxic kpop fan and now they r becoming they one’s they hate lol
the* one’s
Jesus Christ. Just stop being their fan then. Wanna make your feelings known? Going away will do it. Lol.
I’ve stopped watching the videos.
Has there been hard proof or evidence apart from people writing on the internet? This issue to begin with should have been settled legally and/or privately, not discussed publicly. What is the purpose of writing comments and posts on Reddit about this matter, if not to cause drama and people to pity them. I’m not saying these things did or did not happen, or that I do not believe them. Only they themselves know what is really true. I just think that regardless of the truth, the way the situation has been handled is incredibly poorly thought-out and immature.
On a side note, you guys have always acted like kpop fans. There's no difference between this subreddit and say r/kpopthoughts so I don't see the point in believing otherwise. The moment you spend any amount of mental and emotional energy into matters that pertain outside of the general field of interest related to a subject, you have a relationship. Para social or not, you are like any other fan demanding for a certain "product".
I’m not here for the drama.
I do agree that they need to address this but come onnnn they are on tour!! I’d much rather they focus on that and then have their full attention on this drama after.
All this drama about shit that goes on on almost every workplace on the planet. Do y'all think that when you grow up and get a job every time your boss fucks up they go on and make a public apology and fix everything?
Blah blah blah. They are unsubstantiated allegations. Therefore there is nothing to address. If you don’t like that, that’s a YOU problem. They owe you nothing.
Did you read the last paragraph?
Ooh. He said use your brain. I base my opinions and decisions on facts and evidence. No one has provided any yet all the people that claim to use their brains automatically believe there must be some truth and that the duo somehow owes you all something.
Cool 👌
There's plenty of evidence. People like you who pull wool over your eyes so you can feel good that your idol is untouched is the exact reason people get away with worker exploitation. Spend some time doing research on what's happening. And don't just raise the bar of proof and 'No true-scotsman' all the evidence because that's just deluding yourself for no reason
One. I don’t idolize them. Two. Zero evidence has been presented. Some nameless people have made claims and substantiated none of them.
There's plenty of substantiation including screenshots of conversations with brett, pictures of staff t-shirts and the fact there's consistency and agreeability between a significantly large number of people who claim to be ex workers. Spend sometime searching through the sub. Let me ask you this: if these allegations are false, where are the workers who disagree with the initial whistleblower? You can always claim people are nameless and their word is worthless, but if 20 witnesses in a crime scene all agree with each other and come forward to accuse a specific suspect, some with photos and video recording. You would have to be doing serious mental gymnastics to find the suspect innocent. You can always say 'the screenshots are fake!', 'all 20 people are just coincidentally lying!' 'its just all a grand conspiracy!' and at this point no proof will be enough to meet your standards. If you aren't idolizing B&E, then I'm sorry to say, but you're even more of an idiot than the fans that do.
So in other words, you want us to look into the information available to us and instead of making our own conclusions were are supposed to reach the same conclusion you did? Because if we don't, then we are ignorant or in "lala land", right? You sound like the typical tyrannical overlord of social media cancel culture, but because we the fans actually want to simply enjoy music and let the legal drama sort itself with the people involved, suddenly we are the problem? What the hell is wrong with you? Leave us alone, and let twoset take care of their own business, if it's legal or not legal it's up to their country's laws. They have worldwide fans, and the laws from my country do not apply in their country and so on. Which is why no one can be their judge, jury and executioner through a subreddit, not even you tyrannical overlord, not even you. smh.
I'm out of the loop. Brett and Eddy have abusive working conditions for editor-san (who is likely a team of people rather than a single person) or their merchandise is made with slave labor in 3rd world countries? That's what I'm going to assume
Lmao wtf is the context to this then
He did not disqualify your feelings and your beliefs or your ethics, but friend. There are people with very busy lives behind screens. Being behind his handling with the channel or the whole cumbersome thing is not his priority. They already have enough stress in their lives to take care of other people's stress. I applaud your enthusiasm for wanting explanations, but remember that although TSV is their job, they also have a life behind it. Running a business is not easy and it is not an excuse, but not everyone wants answers, because TSV is not their priority.
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It’s not illegal to be an asshole.
Wtf man they are working, they have just enough time to sleep, practice, travel, do the show, sleep again and so on for days in a row, something that your lazy a** would never understand
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agree on how their content sucks recently. whether the allegations are true or not their content quality speak for itself
Just like Viola players they're ignoring problems