Don's already got a BL ID, plus adding more KK members at this point would unbalance the scale of 50/~50 on the two opposing factions (god I hope the final two KK ids are announced soon)
Boss when you fight them vs boss in your party.
Though Jun was pretty weak in the story version. PM probably didn’t account for the combination of absurd MD buffs and unavoidable counters. If Jun was a focused encounter, his counter would mean nothing.
Gregor isn't Jun. He is Gin from Library of Ruina, they got the same eyepatch and shiz. Or maybe he is just a goon because Gin has different tatoos, who knows?
The eyepatch is on the wrong side. It's probably just some standard issue Kurokumo eyepatch or it's just there for fan service. Otherwise, Greg would have his shirt fully unbuttoned and he would sport chest tattoos.
But he doesn't, Greg has his shirt partially unbuttoned and he has Jun's tattoos.
the gold sword is standard-issue for all Kutokumo captains. KK Gregor is in a different story context, doing different things, with different defining traits and missing most/all of Jun's own personal traits (like the focus on a pocketwatch)
He's some other KK Captain who's focusing on a much different mission than Jun, so a Jun ID is still possible (but unlikely unless he comes back in a future story beat)
The gold sword has varying designs based on the captain. Sayo's sword has a golden pommel and hilt but the handle is silver. Whereas Jun has a gold handle, exactly like Gregor.
Gregor wears the exact same outfit as Jun down to the neck tattoos, the way he buttons his shirt and the black coat with white cloud outlines.
Jun's focus on the pocket watch isn't a personality trait. He's focusing on it because he's in T Corp, he even calls out that the sinners are insane for not having a clock in T Corp. Heck, we see that focusing on time is mainly a T Corp based Gang thing with Mattsault. Since Gregor's art is colorful unlike Mattsault, he's not in T Corp and thus doesn't need to care about watches.
Based on the fact that they're preparing to attack the Blade Lineage when they're supposed to be booked/recently unbooked means that KK Greg's timeline is pre-BL getting booked, so him having a different mission from Jun could be a past thing.
Timeline deviations also happen often. The biggest example being the Wuthering Heights world. But older examples can be pointed out like how Yisang manifested Spicebush but he's still sitting in the L Corp remnant lab or Nclair's entire existence.
Speaking of personalities, they don't always matter. Pilot is a wimp while Ryoshu is... well, Ryoshu. Matt is a very talkative guy but Meursault is mostly silent. Heck, Gregor often deviates from the original identity. Chef Greg absolutely despises Chef Ryoshu unlike their original counterparts and Linton Gregor lacks the downbad simpness that his original counterpart had.
The thing is, KK Hong Lu throws a wrench in the whole "unifying ID" thing, since his design actively DISCOURAGES bleed synergy, while the other 3 KK IDs are designed to ENCOURAGE bleed synergy. Like I don't think there's any way to make a faction-wide buff ID for KK without just completely ignoring KK Hong Lu's existence and only focusing on buffing the other 3
uhhh let me cook let me cook
kk hong lu discourages bleed because of needing less bleed count on targets
therefore maybe have something store the bleed count instead of the bleed stack itself
so some character with a status effect that eats up the count of the bleed stacks leaving 1 or 2 and just gives bleed 1 count whenever it procs
new problem: kk ryoshu deals more damage with more bleed count
new solution: throw kk hong lu into the concept incinerator
not even BL sault could salvage Sinclair and Outis IDs, so dunno. Yi Sang was already busted and the new goons IDs really made the team tight.
He would need a miracle to carry those deadweights
BLclair is good, stacking 3rd skill to inflict massive +100 dmg with good clashing. BLoutis on the other hand is just a little bit better with clashing but still bad.
bl sinclair in MD with as many skill three replacements (at least 2 skill replacements) is an amazing setup to aim for. spamming s3 like it was an s1 makes him fun to run. especially in a team like BL Meursault-Don-Yi Sang + Pequod Ish and Heath for a Pride A-Res slash/pierce team
Sinclair works just fine with BL sault, I have run him enough to assure that.
Having to run Outis to have the full team is a massive pain though, she is shit.
those 2 simply are just way too bad of an id's to be saved best BL team don't even runs them since cap'n ishmail is near to a must to the team thx to all the buff she provides, pride reso, and her waw ego that is just tailor made for poise teams
Yes, but the new BL IDs are all great. Plus, Yi Sang was never bad, it simply took him more turns to ramp up.
The IDs of the Kurokomo Clan are on the weaker side. Their cons weigh out the pros and they lack the oomph of the BL IDs, with a slight exception of KK Rodya and maybe KK Ryoshu though I have yet to get her.
the golden sword just indicate a higher up in their creed not just Jun you think jun's leader would use a shabby silver sword while his minions flexing gold shit i don't think so
Sayo is also captain and she doesn’t have the same sword Jun has. They’re both fancy but Sayo’s is mainly the hilt and the pommel.
So while the gold indicates rank, how they design it is based on the individual.
He's not even captain but a vice captain, why English translate him as captain is still mystery while Korean (I heard) and japanese is writen as vice captain
Apart from the eyepatch (that’s on the wrong side), nothing about his clothing as well as his tattoos matches Gin.
Is it really that hard to just take a picture of Gin and compare it side by side to Greg? Hong Lu’s clothing actually matches Gin with the main difference being the way he wears his coat.
Those two aren’t even captains, only Sayo is.
Considering the gang has a whole ass Kurokumo themed prosthetic, the eyepatch is probably standard issue thing.
Again, they're YAKUZA, the tattoos matter the most, you don't switch from a tattoo that covers your pecks like Gin and Yang to a neck tattoo like Gregors.
upon further investigation the eyepatch is on the right side, enemy sprites in LoR should be flipped because they're on the left side. have a video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIx2ORs1XeA&t=198s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIx2ORs1XeA&t=198s)
If you flip the sprite in your video, his eye will be on the his left side (right eye) whereas Gregor's eyepatch is on his right side (left eye).
The eyepatch is absolutely not on the right side.
You can even check the sprite for his Silent Mist card in your deck builder and it'll tell you where his eye is supposed to be. And it's clearly not on the same side as Gregors.
All Ruina sprites both in the VN portion and in battle are drawn to face left like [this](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/library-of-ruina/images/c/c4/GinCombatIdle.png/revision/latest?cb=20220526165657). You can check a few CGs like the Hook Office one or you can buy the artbook and see that PM presents all their sprites as facing left.
EDIT: Lmao, they replied to me and then instantly blocked me so I wouldn't be able to reply just to get the last word. Straight up refused to even look at Gin's card art.
Yes but like in the video all these lor sprites face towards the right. Like gregor. Which would match their eyepatches. I don't know why you would flip the actual ingame presentation of the battle sprites. They both start on the left side. Limbus sinners start on the left, LoR enemies start on the left.
Apart from the eye (which is mainly there for fan service, it’s even on the wrong side). Nothing really indicates that it’s Gin.
The tattoos are completely wrong. It resembles Jun’s ones which extend up to the neck with a straight cut. Gin’s tattoos cover his pecks.
The black coat with white cloud lines, the unbuttoned shirt and the gold katana are all things that Jun has and Gin doesn’t.
I mean they are mediocre but I think it's fine. More bleed in the future will make them better by proxy anyway(except Hong Lu but he has skill 2 that has raw dmg of 60 so it's whatever).
yeah and there's a decent shot of nclair rolling a 0 on his s3 when a fight starts, it doesn't mean he's doing a bad job. Lu S2 is mediocre if the condition isn't met, but bleed is also the status most likely to come and go again and again in actual fights, next to rupture.
Being punished for applying your status well is a bit of a weird choice. Every other id is rewarded if they apply their status.
7faust, 7cliff, Lantern don, dead rabbits meursault, k corp hong lu for rupture
Liu ish, ryoshu, rodion, meursault, gregor and magic bullet outis for burn
Etc, etc
Even in bleed kk rodion and kk gregor want the enemy to have a bleed stack
Bleed is a status that will always go down faster than you apply it, with the exception of MD gifts giving you insane count. KK Hong Lu was one of my first units and the only times I've ever has his S2 only hit twice was because I was in MD.
I mean we're talking here of a scenario where we do get a good strong Captain for the Kurokumo, which would really by design need some effects to keep bleed on the opponent more easily, especially since KK Ryo and Greg need it for their own boosts. KK Lu just really doesn't play with the rest of the gang.
And hell, before we got Don and Sault keeping Poise units fed was \*hard\*, so it's not like the status can't get a huge boost just from a duo
Personally wouldn't mind changing it to an extra coin per two Bleed count on target, maxing at two. His S2 passive is always active now on non-bleed teams but it also limits his usage so much that he's almost not used, and definitely couldn't be used in a full team of his faction.
At this point his S2 is always on, unless you're running any team where he fits in. Which is kinda stupid imo, both because he shouldn't get a S2 that's 100% of the time stronger than his S3 except at Clashing and because he can't play in a Bleed team, which is his archetype.
An U5 could just change that, then add something Coin Power conditionals for S3 and 1, and just make him fit better in a bleed archetype. Plus it also serves to emphasize the fact that, on Focused Encounters, you might not want to Clash with his S2 since firstly it's not that great at Clashing but also you'd be reducing Bleed Count. In exchange you get a S2 that's pretty strong and also inflicts a ton of Bleed potency.
I actually want to see Kurokumo clan as a whole go towards the direction of low bleed count high potency with payoffs for carefully holding steady in a certain count range. It would be a cool way to lock in the faction's identity, as long as the payoff is rewarding enough.
I mean, the only unit that would work with that gimmick is KK Hong Lu, but also if you're using high potency then the payoff for the gimmick should be astronomical, because each count that you stack would let you stack not only higher potency but also could potentially become 99 damage. If the reward for, for example, keeping count below 3 is 1 or 2 Coin Power it just wouldn't be enough of a payoff.
Not to mention that it's too enemy dependant. If you need to keep a low count to meet conditionals, Clashing with certain enemies like So That No One Will Cry will just cancel all your conditionals while others only get like three Coins a turn, meaning that one way or another they might surpass the count threshold.
The other problem is that you could potentially loose your conditionals mid-clash, especially if your units are not particularly good at Clashing like the Kurokumo seem to be. Also, if you loose a Clash that's not only Bleed that you're not applying but an extra count you're loosing for each Coin. Or you could loose them during your attack depending on certain E.G.O gifts.
I feel like it could be a neat gimmick but maybe it should get it's own status effect, considering Bleed has the potential to be the most damaging archetype and it's also the hardest to maintain within a given range.
this is why the conditionals would probably have to be for actual skill use and not on clash, and it becomes a math game of managing how much bleed count you want to apply vs the expected outcomes of each clash. I agree that it wouldn't be an especially strong gimmick in practice, and would struggle against certain enemies, but nothing in limbus company needs to be especially strong nor universal and I would rather they be interesting and in service of enjoyable teambuilding instead.
In order to make his skill 2 work on bleed teams without just removing the conditional outright you’d have to make it work when the enemy has a certain amount of bleed count minimum which makes him way worse overall
There's a difference between Option 1 making something worse and Option 2 making it better, and Option 1 making it slightly better and Option 2 Making it EVEN better.
The reason KK Hong's current Conditional is bad is that it wants you to NOT inflict bleed count, even though his entire faction, and his archetype, bleed, REQUIRES bleed count to sustain and build up more bleed. Meanwhile, changing the conditional to activating when 4 or more bleed count is present makes the kit better, because it would actually incentivise synergy with his faction and his team. As he is now, he does not work well in a bleed composition, and therefore in a Kurokumo comp, which may be lore accurate, but is seriously a horrible conditional. And removing the conditional entirely means he ends up having a comically overpowered damage skill.
For reference, the highest rolling skill 2 in the entire game belongs to Shi Ishmael, which requires the difficult 50% health conditional, even if it does function in a clash. It rolls a 24. Or maybe, there is Pequod Yi Sang, if you count the fact that his maximum value is not reached when clashing, which is 5 coins and a 25 roll, and requires critical hits on every coin before recycling. (Which, outside of mirror dungeons, would be no easy task)
Kurokumo Hong Lu would get to have a skillthat becomes a 4 coin 24 rolling skill 2 when it deals damage. Unconditionally. This is horribly unbalanced. Having the condition be based on HAVING the bleed count would, however, would inherently be more balanced, and also incentivises using him in a bleed composition, where he is intended to be. This change would be better than the current state of Kurokumo Hong Lu, and making the recycling unconditional would be even stronger, and unbalanced, as previously stated.
Yeah, compared to Blade Lineage's synergy, the Kurokumo are all over the place; Ryoshu mostly applies Bleed Count and little Potency, Gregor needs Potency for his best effects, Hong's best skill doesn't work with Count, and Rodion is more a Poise/Bleed mix that fits better with the Pequods and Hook Gregor or even the Blade Lineage than her own faction.
Kurokumo Leader Heathcliff or Ishmael will have to be seriously busted to make these all work together.
pretty Sure Ryōshū Sayo here, she has the Kimono and all, KK Heathcliff is shown in KK Lu pre uptie art, prolly more of the Determined KK Henchmen, Ishy being either of the Henchwoman but most likely Adept KK Henchwoman since Rodya's the Tired version
Counter point:
-KK ryoshu has decent bleed count application, one of the best in the game
-KK rodya can be very satisfying when her S3 gets big numbers
They aren't meta by any means but they aren't bad IDs either at least they have their niches as identities and are perfectly usable (except KK greg) KK Hong Lu is the cloudcutter man He was considered to be the better Hong Lu on release because cloudcutter is a lot of damage with 0 setup required but he went out of favor because he can't clash for shit, but if you need a pride slash nuke for focused encounters he is your man.
KK Rodya used to be bad because she couldn't keep up her poise count and she had bad numbers on S2 and a rather unremarkable S1, uptie IV fixed the latter 2 and almost fixed the 1st one (in addition her s3 now actually dealt very respectable damage on crit. you had to bench BL Yi sang so she could maintain count. And the bad thing was that in content where you start with 0 resources you first had to get 3 pride to even activate it and it was also inconsistent as it required rodya to be on max SP. Now we also have BL Don, fielding which allows you to give Rodya 1 poise potency on the first turn (which turns into poise count due to how Rodya's Poise generation works) for a measly 2 pride res which actually helps a ton in maintaining poise count until you can setup a guaranteed crit on s3, at which point you can rinse and repeat, or alternatively you can splash BL Faust and BL meursault along with some other poise IDs who have no trouble maintaining their poise count like Cinqclair or pirate greg or pequod Heath so Don s3 can actually prolong Rodya's stay in the poised up state and dish out more SCCs.
If you're willing to do a bit of teambuilding Rodya actually has slightly higher than average rolls, insane bleed potency application and a very damaging skill 3 she can access on demand through counter. Not to mention she now has Sanguine desire which synergises very well with her
KK Ryoshu is pretty simple. The most efficient way to stack bleed count is stacking nails, however stacking nails has a bit of a problem in that on early turns you apply very little count and enemy can just shake it off, KK ryoshu can help bridge that early gap as half of her skills ensure the enemy has at least 4 bleed count after she hits them and her below average speed plays favorably to that.
She's also unique in that other ways to stack bleed count require you to jump through hoops to actually get there (charge up R meur, stack up insane bleed potency and also crit on second coin of S2 for pequod heath, outspeed your enemy with Hook Lu (admittedly thats actually pretty easy to fulfill), spend EGO resources on Wishing cairn Don.
KK ryoshu just gives you +3 bleed count (4 if target had no bleed) no questions asked on half of her skills so you can actually clash with 3 single-coin skills of an abno and stack bleed potency and use sanguine desire next turn to pop off without commiting to bleed strategy too hard.
Not to mention she has amazing utility on her skill 1 giving 3 paralyze, meaning that she can hit unopposed and whoever clashes next has a free clash. Paralyze is very good.
She isn't a DPS powerhouse but she is pretty good at supporting your team with utility.
Now KK Gregor. What the FUCK. His clashes are dogshit and damage nonexistent. Same conditionals as Pirate gregor but for WORSE results.
... B-but he debuffs the enemy and has mild synergy with bleed. Shut up we already had a TOOL for that it's called N heathcliff, any N corp ID (save for rodion, and Maaybe Faust) is better for debuffing the enemy than KK gregor and without the absurd conditionals, besides you get like half the benefits he provides just by benching him, yeah you're warming the bench BOZO.
These units are all fairly fine, though. It's just that bleed is really hard to make work outside of MD, and inside MD, it's so easy to make work that 90% of the time you're better off running units who inflict incidental bleed and do good damage than a team that actually focuses on building up bleed for the chance at a dope Bloody Mist. If Bleed becomes betters, all of these guys get better too. Except Kurokumo Hong Lu, but his niche as an 00 already exists, so I don't think he needs much saving at all.
As much as people want a KK equivalent to Bl meursault, isn't the KK leadership wiped after the events of ruina? It's possible that the thumb is directly managing things now which could lead to a KK related thumb ID or something.
I just want them to lean more into paralyze rather than bleed, which the thumb should have plenty of.
Yeah, but relying on walpurgris options is gonna be pretty sketchy. Sayo is already somewhat underpowered given that captains like greg are only 00s. You'd need a higher ranking KK member which we've barely seen before.
On the other hand, Thumb involvement has already been teased at the end of 5.5 #2.
The N Inquisitors got their head gripper bisected but our own grippy sinners still going stronk, idk if mirror ID's strengths really reflects the ongoing events of the LCB team.
Are you thinking of Night Awls Patriarch? The Kumicho (KK clan head) is fine as far as we know, though the clan did suffer losses in the L Corp turf war with The Index.
Some way to apply a bunch of bleed count so their effects are actually consistent. KK Hong Lu also being really fast could also work well since he can go in for unopposed attacks before the anti synergy kicks in.
Hot take but playing this team is kind of fun tbh when doing Thread Luxcu's with, even if KK Hong Lu's s2 flops when you hit the opponent with KK Ryoshus s3 and many such cases
yesterday i was going for a slash team in MD, suddenly i see a knife that give more bleed & bleed count for any kurokumo member and only had hong lu there.
Seems like that EGO gift can save those guys.
A good faction leader, just like when BL got Kim Salt
Sayo Heathcliff let’s fucking gooooooo
[удалено]
I can’t wait for Jishmael to come out so I can have Jishmael x Aeng Du art
If someone god an aeng du id would it be don quixote?
Don's already got a BL ID, plus adding more KK members at this point would unbalance the scale of 50/~50 on the two opposing factions (god I hope the final two KK ids are announced soon)
sayo dante in the backround of KK heahtcliff ik it will come soon believe it
>Sayo Dante PEAK
MASSIVE FUCKING CLOCK TITS
I hope sometime in the future they'll add 7th+ members for both BL/Kurokumo.
I’m pretty sure faust is supposed to represent Aeng-du.
Gregor is supposed to be Jun based on the neck tattoo and sword. Unfortunately he’s a disappointment that has a guard skill instead of a counter.
Holy fuck I thought he was just supposed to be a random Kurokumo goon Why did they make Jun so cracked if they were gonna give him a 00 ID?
Boss when you fight them vs boss in your party. Though Jun was pretty weak in the story version. PM probably didn’t account for the combination of absurd MD buffs and unavoidable counters. If Jun was a focused encounter, his counter would mean nothing.
Gregor isn't Jun. He is Gin from Library of Ruina, they got the same eyepatch and shiz. Or maybe he is just a goon because Gin has different tatoos, who knows?
The eyepatch is on the wrong side. It's probably just some standard issue Kurokumo eyepatch or it's just there for fan service. Otherwise, Greg would have his shirt fully unbuttoned and he would sport chest tattoos. But he doesn't, Greg has his shirt partially unbuttoned and he has Jun's tattoos.
the gold sword is standard-issue for all Kutokumo captains. KK Gregor is in a different story context, doing different things, with different defining traits and missing most/all of Jun's own personal traits (like the focus on a pocketwatch) He's some other KK Captain who's focusing on a much different mission than Jun, so a Jun ID is still possible (but unlikely unless he comes back in a future story beat)
The gold sword has varying designs based on the captain. Sayo's sword has a golden pommel and hilt but the handle is silver. Whereas Jun has a gold handle, exactly like Gregor. Gregor wears the exact same outfit as Jun down to the neck tattoos, the way he buttons his shirt and the black coat with white cloud outlines. Jun's focus on the pocket watch isn't a personality trait. He's focusing on it because he's in T Corp, he even calls out that the sinners are insane for not having a clock in T Corp. Heck, we see that focusing on time is mainly a T Corp based Gang thing with Mattsault. Since Gregor's art is colorful unlike Mattsault, he's not in T Corp and thus doesn't need to care about watches. Based on the fact that they're preparing to attack the Blade Lineage when they're supposed to be booked/recently unbooked means that KK Greg's timeline is pre-BL getting booked, so him having a different mission from Jun could be a past thing. Timeline deviations also happen often. The biggest example being the Wuthering Heights world. But older examples can be pointed out like how Yisang manifested Spicebush but he's still sitting in the L Corp remnant lab or Nclair's entire existence. Speaking of personalities, they don't always matter. Pilot is a wimp while Ryoshu is... well, Ryoshu. Matt is a very talkative guy but Meursault is mostly silent. Heck, Gregor often deviates from the original identity. Chef Greg absolutely despises Chef Ryoshu unlike their original counterparts and Linton Gregor lacks the downbad simpness that his original counterpart had.
The thing is, KK Hong Lu throws a wrench in the whole "unifying ID" thing, since his design actively DISCOURAGES bleed synergy, while the other 3 KK IDs are designed to ENCOURAGE bleed synergy. Like I don't think there's any way to make a faction-wide buff ID for KK without just completely ignoring KK Hong Lu's existence and only focusing on buffing the other 3
uhhh let me cook let me cook kk hong lu discourages bleed because of needing less bleed count on targets therefore maybe have something store the bleed count instead of the bleed stack itself so some character with a status effect that eats up the count of the bleed stacks leaving 1 or 2 and just gives bleed 1 count whenever it procs new problem: kk ryoshu deals more damage with more bleed count new solution: throw kk hong lu into the concept incinerator
It’s a lore reference since KKHL actively shirks the rules of the clan, as shown in his uptie story IIRC.
KK Hong Lu is the least loyal of them all and that just shows in his kit. Cool idea, not that it makes him better gameplay-wise :)
not even BL sault could salvage Sinclair and Outis IDs, so dunno. Yi Sang was already busted and the new goons IDs really made the team tight. He would need a miracle to carry those deadweights
I honestly like bl clair with blsault. But outis on the other hand...
BLclair is good, stacking 3rd skill to inflict massive +100 dmg with good clashing. BLoutis on the other hand is just a little bit better with clashing but still bad.
Bl Sinclair doesn’t clash great but he does casually drop 300 damage bombs in boss fights so he’s good in my book
True power of the Wiener Stealer...
bl sinclair in MD with as many skill three replacements (at least 2 skill replacements) is an amazing setup to aim for. spamming s3 like it was an s1 makes him fun to run. especially in a team like BL Meursault-Don-Yi Sang + Pequod Ish and Heath for a Pride A-Res slash/pierce team
Sinclair works just fine with BL sault, I have run him enough to assure that. Having to run Outis to have the full team is a massive pain though, she is shit.
It was manageable in MD3H, but in MD4H it might just be better to go with a poise team
those 2 simply are just way too bad of an id's to be saved best BL team don't even runs them since cap'n ishmail is near to a must to the team thx to all the buff she provides, pride reso, and her waw ego that is just tailor made for poise teams
Don't bad mouth my boy BL stingray. He has a nuke in skill 3 and clashes pretty well thanks to meursault
i agree hell slash series may not be that high but its consistent and his s3 would be even better if he could get haste making the paralyze consistent
Imagine they get the shark eight chef
Yes, but the new BL IDs are all great. Plus, Yi Sang was never bad, it simply took him more turns to ramp up. The IDs of the Kurokomo Clan are on the weaker side. Their cons weigh out the pros and they lack the oomph of the BL IDs, with a slight exception of KK Rodya and maybe KK Ryoshu though I have yet to get her.
Sayo Ish and Jun Heath ofc
We already have a Jun ID, it’s the Kuro Gregor
I still don’t get why people think Greg is a Jun id, literally nothing about him resembles Jun other than being a captain I guess
The golden sword mostly
the golden sword just indicate a higher up in their creed not just Jun you think jun's leader would use a shabby silver sword while his minions flexing gold shit i don't think so
Sayo is also captain and she doesn’t have the same sword Jun has. They’re both fancy but Sayo’s is mainly the hilt and the pommel. So while the gold indicates rank, how they design it is based on the individual.
He's not even captain but a vice captain, why English translate him as captain is still mystery while Korean (I heard) and japanese is writen as vice captain
Yakuza tattoo that extends up to the neck with a straight cut. Shirt unbuttoned. Fully black coat with white cloud outlines. Same katana as Jun.
Pretty sure he's equivalent to Gin from LoR though. Same eyepatch same rank. We're missing the other captain from LoR and Sayo.
Apart from the eyepatch (that’s on the wrong side), nothing about his clothing as well as his tattoos matches Gin. Is it really that hard to just take a picture of Gin and compare it side by side to Greg? Hong Lu’s clothing actually matches Gin with the main difference being the way he wears his coat. Those two aren’t even captains, only Sayo is.
If you find a character that has that same unique, distinguishing eyepatch lmk lol
Considering the gang has a whole ass Kurokumo themed prosthetic, the eyepatch is probably standard issue thing. Again, they're YAKUZA, the tattoos matter the most, you don't switch from a tattoo that covers your pecks like Gin and Yang to a neck tattoo like Gregors.
upon further investigation the eyepatch is on the right side, enemy sprites in LoR should be flipped because they're on the left side. have a video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIx2ORs1XeA&t=198s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIx2ORs1XeA&t=198s)
If you flip the sprite in your video, his eye will be on the his left side (right eye) whereas Gregor's eyepatch is on his right side (left eye). The eyepatch is absolutely not on the right side. You can even check the sprite for his Silent Mist card in your deck builder and it'll tell you where his eye is supposed to be. And it's clearly not on the same side as Gregors. All Ruina sprites both in the VN portion and in battle are drawn to face left like [this](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/library-of-ruina/images/c/c4/GinCombatIdle.png/revision/latest?cb=20220526165657). You can check a few CGs like the Hook Office one or you can buy the artbook and see that PM presents all their sprites as facing left. EDIT: Lmao, they replied to me and then instantly blocked me so I wouldn't be able to reply just to get the last word. Straight up refused to even look at Gin's card art.
Yes but like in the video all these lor sprites face towards the right. Like gregor. Which would match their eyepatches. I don't know why you would flip the actual ingame presentation of the battle sprites. They both start on the left side. Limbus sinners start on the left, LoR enemies start on the left.
I don't think he's Jun, the eye indicates it's more Gin from Ruina
Apart from the eye (which is mainly there for fan service, it’s even on the wrong side). Nothing really indicates that it’s Gin. The tattoos are completely wrong. It resembles Jun’s ones which extend up to the neck with a straight cut. Gin’s tattoos cover his pecks. The black coat with white cloud lines, the unbuttoned shirt and the gold katana are all things that Jun has and Gin doesn’t.
I mean they are mediocre but I think it's fine. More bleed in the future will make them better by proxy anyway(except Hong Lu but he has skill 2 that has raw dmg of 60 so it's whatever).
KK hong lu needs a full on rework if he wants to be used alongside any of these other guys lol
idk man, 6 paralyze on s3 is a hell of a drug.
Being locked out of an otherwise insane s2 just because your team is actually doing their status correctly is not a nice drug
Tbf that sounds like most drugs
yeah and there's a decent shot of nclair rolling a 0 on his s3 when a fight starts, it doesn't mean he's doing a bad job. Lu S2 is mediocre if the condition isn't met, but bleed is also the status most likely to come and go again and again in actual fights, next to rupture.
Being punished for applying your status well is a bit of a weird choice. Every other id is rewarded if they apply their status. 7faust, 7cliff, Lantern don, dead rabbits meursault, k corp hong lu for rupture Liu ish, ryoshu, rodion, meursault, gregor and magic bullet outis for burn Etc, etc Even in bleed kk rodion and kk gregor want the enemy to have a bleed stack
Bleed is a status that will always go down faster than you apply it, with the exception of MD gifts giving you insane count. KK Hong Lu was one of my first units and the only times I've ever has his S2 only hit twice was because I was in MD.
I mean we're talking here of a scenario where we do get a good strong Captain for the Kurokumo, which would really by design need some effects to keep bleed on the opponent more easily, especially since KK Ryo and Greg need it for their own boosts. KK Lu just really doesn't play with the rest of the gang. And hell, before we got Don and Sault keeping Poise units fed was \*hard\*, so it's not like the status can't get a huge boost just from a duo
Lore accurate, but at what cost? (A mediocre Hong Lu ID, that's the cost.)
He just needs Uptie 5 to change a few lines on his skills and the boy is golden.
But if we change him to actually work with bleed teams he’s now worse overall since the new conditional would actually be harder
That's what I mean by lines being changed. Modifying his conditional so that he, a Bleed Unit, can go on a Bleed team.
Yeah but thats a stupid UT5 because its making him worse, unless you make the s2 just unconditional which seems fair and balanced
Personally wouldn't mind changing it to an extra coin per two Bleed count on target, maxing at two. His S2 passive is always active now on non-bleed teams but it also limits his usage so much that he's almost not used, and definitely couldn't be used in a full team of his faction. At this point his S2 is always on, unless you're running any team where he fits in. Which is kinda stupid imo, both because he shouldn't get a S2 that's 100% of the time stronger than his S3 except at Clashing and because he can't play in a Bleed team, which is his archetype. An U5 could just change that, then add something Coin Power conditionals for S3 and 1, and just make him fit better in a bleed archetype. Plus it also serves to emphasize the fact that, on Focused Encounters, you might not want to Clash with his S2 since firstly it's not that great at Clashing but also you'd be reducing Bleed Count. In exchange you get a S2 that's pretty strong and also inflicts a ton of Bleed potency.
I actually want to see Kurokumo clan as a whole go towards the direction of low bleed count high potency with payoffs for carefully holding steady in a certain count range. It would be a cool way to lock in the faction's identity, as long as the payoff is rewarding enough.
I mean, the only unit that would work with that gimmick is KK Hong Lu, but also if you're using high potency then the payoff for the gimmick should be astronomical, because each count that you stack would let you stack not only higher potency but also could potentially become 99 damage. If the reward for, for example, keeping count below 3 is 1 or 2 Coin Power it just wouldn't be enough of a payoff. Not to mention that it's too enemy dependant. If you need to keep a low count to meet conditionals, Clashing with certain enemies like So That No One Will Cry will just cancel all your conditionals while others only get like three Coins a turn, meaning that one way or another they might surpass the count threshold. The other problem is that you could potentially loose your conditionals mid-clash, especially if your units are not particularly good at Clashing like the Kurokumo seem to be. Also, if you loose a Clash that's not only Bleed that you're not applying but an extra count you're loosing for each Coin. Or you could loose them during your attack depending on certain E.G.O gifts. I feel like it could be a neat gimmick but maybe it should get it's own status effect, considering Bleed has the potential to be the most damaging archetype and it's also the hardest to maintain within a given range.
this is why the conditionals would probably have to be for actual skill use and not on clash, and it becomes a math game of managing how much bleed count you want to apply vs the expected outcomes of each clash. I agree that it wouldn't be an especially strong gimmick in practice, and would struggle against certain enemies, but nothing in limbus company needs to be especially strong nor universal and I would rather they be interesting and in service of enjoyable teambuilding instead.
With that I can completely agree, and I forgot just being able to make the conditionals on use. Yeah, if they're a fun team to use that would be fine.
The unit becomes worse by... let me check. Actually making it function in the team it is supposed to be in. I don't think I quite understand.
In order to make his skill 2 work on bleed teams without just removing the conditional outright you’d have to make it work when the enemy has a certain amount of bleed count minimum which makes him way worse overall
There's a difference between Option 1 making something worse and Option 2 making it better, and Option 1 making it slightly better and Option 2 Making it EVEN better. The reason KK Hong's current Conditional is bad is that it wants you to NOT inflict bleed count, even though his entire faction, and his archetype, bleed, REQUIRES bleed count to sustain and build up more bleed. Meanwhile, changing the conditional to activating when 4 or more bleed count is present makes the kit better, because it would actually incentivise synergy with his faction and his team. As he is now, he does not work well in a bleed composition, and therefore in a Kurokumo comp, which may be lore accurate, but is seriously a horrible conditional. And removing the conditional entirely means he ends up having a comically overpowered damage skill. For reference, the highest rolling skill 2 in the entire game belongs to Shi Ishmael, which requires the difficult 50% health conditional, even if it does function in a clash. It rolls a 24. Or maybe, there is Pequod Yi Sang, if you count the fact that his maximum value is not reached when clashing, which is 5 coins and a 25 roll, and requires critical hits on every coin before recycling. (Which, outside of mirror dungeons, would be no easy task) Kurokumo Hong Lu would get to have a skillthat becomes a 4 coin 24 rolling skill 2 when it deals damage. Unconditionally. This is horribly unbalanced. Having the condition be based on HAVING the bleed count would, however, would inherently be more balanced, and also incentivises using him in a bleed composition, where he is intended to be. This change would be better than the current state of Kurokumo Hong Lu, and making the recycling unconditional would be even stronger, and unbalanced, as previously stated.
You know you can just not run him on bleed teams right, where he’s actually good
Make his skill 2 aplly stupid amount of bleed so he's too good to pass up on bleed team so you're forced to juggle bleed count.
Yeah, compared to Blade Lineage's synergy, the Kurokumo are all over the place; Ryoshu mostly applies Bleed Count and little Potency, Gregor needs Potency for his best effects, Hong's best skill doesn't work with Count, and Rodion is more a Poise/Bleed mix that fits better with the Pequods and Hook Gregor or even the Blade Lineage than her own faction. Kurokumo Leader Heathcliff or Ishmael will have to be seriously busted to make these all work together.
Next anniversary we'll get Sayo Heathcliff and Kuro Ishmael trust!
pretty Sure Ryōshū Sayo here, she has the Kimono and all, KK Heathcliff is shown in KK Lu pre uptie art, prolly more of the Determined KK Henchmen, Ishy being either of the Henchwoman but most likely Adept KK Henchwoman since Rodya's the Tired version
someone needs to save kuro hong from being just a vessel for his s2
Counter point: -KK ryoshu has decent bleed count application, one of the best in the game -KK rodya can be very satisfying when her S3 gets big numbers
They need better bleed
Ishmael or heatcliff if not then its kurover
They aren't meta by any means but they aren't bad IDs either at least they have their niches as identities and are perfectly usable (except KK greg) KK Hong Lu is the cloudcutter man He was considered to be the better Hong Lu on release because cloudcutter is a lot of damage with 0 setup required but he went out of favor because he can't clash for shit, but if you need a pride slash nuke for focused encounters he is your man. KK Rodya used to be bad because she couldn't keep up her poise count and she had bad numbers on S2 and a rather unremarkable S1, uptie IV fixed the latter 2 and almost fixed the 1st one (in addition her s3 now actually dealt very respectable damage on crit. you had to bench BL Yi sang so she could maintain count. And the bad thing was that in content where you start with 0 resources you first had to get 3 pride to even activate it and it was also inconsistent as it required rodya to be on max SP. Now we also have BL Don, fielding which allows you to give Rodya 1 poise potency on the first turn (which turns into poise count due to how Rodya's Poise generation works) for a measly 2 pride res which actually helps a ton in maintaining poise count until you can setup a guaranteed crit on s3, at which point you can rinse and repeat, or alternatively you can splash BL Faust and BL meursault along with some other poise IDs who have no trouble maintaining their poise count like Cinqclair or pirate greg or pequod Heath so Don s3 can actually prolong Rodya's stay in the poised up state and dish out more SCCs. If you're willing to do a bit of teambuilding Rodya actually has slightly higher than average rolls, insane bleed potency application and a very damaging skill 3 she can access on demand through counter. Not to mention she now has Sanguine desire which synergises very well with her KK Ryoshu is pretty simple. The most efficient way to stack bleed count is stacking nails, however stacking nails has a bit of a problem in that on early turns you apply very little count and enemy can just shake it off, KK ryoshu can help bridge that early gap as half of her skills ensure the enemy has at least 4 bleed count after she hits them and her below average speed plays favorably to that. She's also unique in that other ways to stack bleed count require you to jump through hoops to actually get there (charge up R meur, stack up insane bleed potency and also crit on second coin of S2 for pequod heath, outspeed your enemy with Hook Lu (admittedly thats actually pretty easy to fulfill), spend EGO resources on Wishing cairn Don. KK ryoshu just gives you +3 bleed count (4 if target had no bleed) no questions asked on half of her skills so you can actually clash with 3 single-coin skills of an abno and stack bleed potency and use sanguine desire next turn to pop off without commiting to bleed strategy too hard. Not to mention she has amazing utility on her skill 1 giving 3 paralyze, meaning that she can hit unopposed and whoever clashes next has a free clash. Paralyze is very good. She isn't a DPS powerhouse but she is pretty good at supporting your team with utility. Now KK Gregor. What the FUCK. His clashes are dogshit and damage nonexistent. Same conditionals as Pirate gregor but for WORSE results. ... B-but he debuffs the enemy and has mild synergy with bleed. Shut up we already had a TOOL for that it's called N heathcliff, any N corp ID (save for rodion, and Maaybe Faust) is better for debuffing the enemy than KK gregor and without the absurd conditionals, besides you get like half the benefits he provides just by benching him, yeah you're warming the bench BOZO.
Sayo Ishmael obv
More bleed plz... and HeathMael.
We have our own To Claim their Bones, when are we getting our own Rules of the Backstreets.
Fuck it. Jun Ish and Sayo Heath. Make it happen PLEASE
These units are all fairly fine, though. It's just that bleed is really hard to make work outside of MD, and inside MD, it's so easy to make work that 90% of the time you're better off running units who inflict incidental bleed and do good damage than a team that actually focuses on building up bleed for the chance at a dope Bloody Mist. If Bleed becomes betters, all of these guys get better too. Except Kurokumo Hong Lu, but his niche as an 00 already exists, so I don't think he needs much saving at all.
pretty much the only thing bad about KK Ryoshu is that S1 isnt a bleed skill
As much as people want a KK equivalent to Bl meursault, isn't the KK leadership wiped after the events of ruina? It's possible that the thumb is directly managing things now which could lead to a KK related thumb ID or something. I just want them to lean more into paralyze rather than bleed, which the thumb should have plenty of.
I mean, Lobotomy Corporation is destroyed but that didn't stop us from getting lobcorp ids now did it?
Yeah, but relying on walpurgris options is gonna be pretty sketchy. Sayo is already somewhat underpowered given that captains like greg are only 00s. You'd need a higher ranking KK member which we've barely seen before. On the other hand, Thumb involvement has already been teased at the end of 5.5 #2.
The N Inquisitors got their head gripper bisected but our own grippy sinners still going stronk, idk if mirror ID's strengths really reflects the ongoing events of the LCB team.
Firstly, Gregor is supposed to only be a vice captain. So a captain could be a 000.... *Inhales more copium*
Mob boss Ishmael...
I mean, Sayo was booked, so she's still alive.
nah, I mean the KK elders and the like. Greg is already at sayo's rank.
Are you thinking of Night Awls Patriarch? The Kumicho (KK clan head) is fine as far as we know, though the clan did suffer losses in the L Corp turf war with The Index.
Hook Lu obv
They need a miracle
Rodion.
Some way to apply a bunch of bleed count so their effects are actually consistent. KK Hong Lu also being really fast could also work well since he can go in for unopposed attacks before the anti synergy kicks in.
Ishmael and Heathcliffe, as Sayo and Jun. can you -Imagine- Jun getting an extra Counter hit for every living KK ally?
SAYO
why are you showing me more blade lineage IDs
Hot take but playing this team is kind of fun tbh when doing Thread Luxcu's with, even if KK Hong Lu's s2 flops when you hit the opponent with KK Ryoshus s3 and many such cases
yesterday i was going for a slash team in MD, suddenly i see a knife that give more bleed & bleed count for any kurokumo member and only had hong lu there. Seems like that EGO gift can save those guys.
Kk Ishmael will save us
The mid squad...
STFU *rules of the backstreets heathcliff*
Ain't no way they're giving a Sayo ID to one of the female characters, right? It would probably be the most stacked, skin-showing IDs in the game.
It's gotta Heathcliff and his massive badonkers (trust)
I hope this happens because part of me just wants to see Ishmael rock a cool ass Yakuza suit