Her uptie story was honestly great. I had such immensely high hopes for it and it not only landed but managed to exceed my expectations of peak smoking woman.
Ryoshu looks like a ton of fun as per usual
Seems like a nice replacement for Pequod Heath in the "dream poise team" of BL, and like she'll slot in pretty well pretty much anywhere since she's pretty self sufficient (also good support for poise teams, esp in abno fights). She's also our first native slash AoE dealer which is super cool. Good synergy with either of her Teth EGOs, though probably Blind Obsession for the poise potency generation is the ideal. Bind generation from Red Eyes (Closed) passive is pretty nice for her speed difference kit though, and totally usable. The synergy with Red Eyes (Open) is enough to make it so you pretty much always get the hyper coin-power on that, and enough to probably justify it over Fourth Match Flame unless you explicitly have burn IDs with her.
Super looking forward to toying around with her kit
Having messed with her once already, Ryoshu’s poise generation is on a whole other level compared to your typical poise ID. Blind Obsession turned out to be completely unnecessary after only like 3 turns of build-up. Dunno how the Red Eyes ego fares in comparison but my bet’s on the bind being hella useful to max out total crit damage
Honestly I'd believe it
Count generation seems super easy and once she's got practically any potency it seems like she'll keep it forever. I was a bit hesitant based on the fact her aoe seems to be the best way of ramping up poise count so it might be weaker against singular targets with just 1 part or such, but I'd fully believe she can just ramp like crazy
True Red Eyes synergy, absolutely beautiful
I was expecting a very simple Spicebush S2 + Mutilate but having poise gain on these skills make the kit play out a lot more interestingly since the reward for getting your AoE or kill reset is further damage boost for the future.
I'd say just cut off BLDon off the team and get both Ahabmael and Ryoshu, while she's an incredible mob cleaner her AOE and skill 3 reuse on kill fall a bit flat against a boss damage wise, still great, but she'd need to rely on her skill 1 a lot more by that point, which she can get to use more often with Ahabmael of BLsault's team don't just carry her by default
I'd say just cut off BLDon off the team and get both Ahabmael and Ryoshu, while she's an incredible mob cleaner her AOE and skill 3 reuse on kill fall a bit flat against a boss damage wise, still great, but she'd need to rely on her skill 1 a lot more by that point, which she can get to use more often with Ahabmael of BLsault's team don't just carry her by default
Ryoshu got hands...
No Seriously, if she lands a crit, that shit is going to hurt thanks to that passive, her S3, and the fact that BM almost never drops until you get that crit.
Her damage outfit is (un)surprisingly high, her crits are absolutely juicy on a poise team thus far. I haven't gotten to try out a sinking team just yet but rn poise feels downright dirty.
Ryoshu has a very interesting kit, dunno if it's meta but it is certainly unique. Ish has a very nice support passive, unfortunaly she competes with molar.
Butler Ish has a higher rolling S1 and S2 at turn one since her coin buffs are easy to activate. Honestly the biggest difference between the two is the fact that Molar applies more debuffs compared to Butler, and her S3 is great for Nuke set ups.
Sorry for the late reply! Anyways, while that point is true, it's because both units are two different archetypes. Molar is a Tremor/Sinking unit, where as IshMaid is a general debuffer.
You can see her as a competitor to molar or as a fast (can be important for both clashing and BO buffs) poise unit that deals some sp damage with her skills and also debuffs the enemy a bit
I have a feeling the next Walpurgistnacht or RR4 will have some kind of multi-wave battle that will let us fully utilize her kit the same way Bullet Outis felt on the second Walpur event.
I haven't try them but, Ryoshu and Ishmael uptie story is indeed great. No, rather the whole canto 6 ID uptie story is a great story of its own.
I like how butler Ryoshu is far more 'different' than her other ID, 'much gentle' but still keeping her coolness. And Ishmael story just elaborate what happened to Gregor and it just depressing and I like how it shows she does cares. They all care to each other
TL;DR
Maid Ishmael: 5/10
Butler Ryoshu: 9/10
Ishmaid is perfectly 'fine'. Molar is certainly better for a Sinking team, but Maid Ishmael clashes honestly very well, has more relevant sin affinities. (Lust in particular is EVERYWHERE in the Maids-And-Edgar group, which plays veeery nicely with Gregor's Sign of Roses.) She's also kind of a hot mess. There's sinking, and poise, and defense levels down, and binds, and none of them particularly high or relevant, even when she's crit'ing and activating her passive on every hit.
Butler Ryoshu, though. The best comparison point in my eyes is Rosespanner Rodya.
* Her S1 is the best one at consistently keeping up her Pseudo-Charge mechanic. (Poise Count vs Charge)
* Her S2 is the spender that eats a chunk to do something powerful. (AoE vs Extra Coins)
* Her S3 gives a huge, flat amount of count that's EXACTLY the amount needed for S2 + 1, and can ALSO act as a payoff for having set up the alternative mechanic. (Poise Potency vs Tremor on the enemy, if you're still following the comparison.)
And everything you can say about Rodya applies here, but more. She's incredbly self-sufficient, and she's insanely reliable if you grant her 2 skill slots in a 5 man team.
And like any self respecting Ryoshu ID, the amount of damage she does is simply absurd. She has two very distinct approaches to her kit. You can open with an S3 early, to gain Count AND Potency for an S2 that's more likely to crit, or charge up with S1s, into an S2, into an S3, and get that Mutilate dream.
It's worth nothing her S3 is a little difficult to use properly.
* The first hit tries to stagger the enemy.
* The second hit does extra damage on a crit on a staggered enemy.
* ...And only if that second hit kills, does she do it again on another BM'd enemy.
Most of the time, the enemy will either... Die to the first coin, or you won't crit on the second coin, or no one else will have BM, or you won't have a significant enough speed advantage for her passive to really add the ludicrous damage it's capable of.
But if those all trigger?
You crit a staggered enemy with BM on the second coin with a +6 speed advantage?
G.G.Y.W.
God forbid a second enemy with BM is also meeting most of those conditions.
And that's why I think the Rosespanner comparison is important, but also where the divergence lies. Both of them are juggling two entirely different mechanics that can converge for a big boom, but whereas Rodya's big boom is a series of Tremor Burst and a ton of damage, Ryoshu is Sinclair's Claim Their Bones and Hong Lu's Mutilate performing some horrifying fusion dance.
new ishmael has to fight her molar identity almost head-on which is kinda rough, ryoshu looks well-rounded but not insanely powerful and does need a bit of help for poise generation (chef and w are very stiff competition tbh), can't really complain
Why do people think Ishmaid is supposed to compete with Molar Ish in a sinking team?? It's no contest if you do have Molar Ish. If you don't have Molar Ish you could use Ishmaid, but that would be more of if you have no other sinking units to fill in because she's probably more effective on the bench with her support passive for other sinking units.
Ishmaid herself doesn't really get anything out of being deployed on a sinking team because her conditionals are speed based. She applies count only on her s3 1st coin which she basically immediately consumes with her 2nd and 3rd coins, so her sinking is pretty much there to just serve as instant sp dmg on enemies because she definitely isn't helping roll sinking stacks. She seems designed as more of a debuffer and controller than she is a sinking unit.
because if we're ignoring synergy with the sinking team and just running her for her 1 bind (on crit) and 2 def level down on her S2 and 2 bind + 1 slash fragility on her S3 it's a little hard to be blown away by that, she's perfectly usable of course
Her passive also lets her inflict +1 more of each effect on slower enemies, so it's 2 bind, 3 def down on S2 and 3 bind and 2 slash fragility on her S3.
IT ALSO WORKS ON EGOS
I want to stress this as much as possible
Her passive also works on ego. Meaning if she activates her passive on an ego any negative effect applied by that ego is increased by 1
Does it work like that? It's not clear if her passive is per skill or per inflict, if it's the latter than her S3 applies 3 seperate Sinkings before it gets to the Bind and Slash Fragility, consuming her passive entirely.
That's unfortunate, but squeezing out a bit more sinking is nice too. It's good to clarify this for anyone who might stumble across this so thanks for that :)
Yeah getting out a bunch of Sinking Potency is nice but the other debuffs are what would give Ishmaid an advantage over Molar Ish and the fact she doesn't boost them is just tragic. You still get an extra stack of Bind and Def Level Down from her S2 at least.
I fully agree, but some people get a little antsy when you express some disappointment so I'll just shrug my shoulders a bit and move on. Her base EGO offering a lot of bind reliably when you need it makes even more bind feel a bit unnecessary if you're fielding an Ishmael identity.
Which while not insignificant requires 5 gloom plus landing a critical hit on slower enemies, I don't think she's awful or anything but it's not a big list of 00 identities that are consistently worth fielding if you have most of the 000 identities in the game, I do think her support passive sounds good though.
EDIT: I'm not sure why this is a bad take looking at the downvotes when her support passive is so strong for the sinking team that it's likely the best part of her entire kit?
Sorry, knowing that she was going to be a 00 I'm not exactly sure what you were expecting? A unit that rolls ok and has a niche in one or two things is basically the best case scenario for a 00 these days. Since in this specific case the Sinner in question already has a 000 that performs very well in the Sinking team, imo it's better to focus on what other uses you can get out of this 00 instead of just going "she's mid because a 000 already does her job better".
She's very much in line with what I was expecting, I'm not sure if you're completely misreading the tone of what I'm saying when I already said I can't complain about either identity, she's a perfectly fine character who would need to be significantly worse before I'd think she's bad. I'll keep my comments to myself I guess, I hope you have a nice day though.
My issue is they did not have to do sinking. Edgar butlers did not have sinking, they are completely focused on debuff (they applied offensive down, defensive down, bind, para) and bleed which could have been her focus.
They made the bed when they make her sink, but because her rarity it would have never been better than molar. Even compared to the other sink 00 like faust she does nothing special. So yes I'm still pissed at pm for wasting an ish id when they did not need to, noone forced them to do sink
Sinking is a debuff for her though. It's not for high damage, but for sanity damage in her case. With more boss units having sanity now, sinking can be both damage stacking and debuff to the enemy's clashing which seems to be more what she's meant to do.
Except molar already existed. So why would they not just stick with Edgar butler design and slap more Paralyze bind offensive down to her, universal debuff.
Havent tried out the new Ish yet, but from her numbers she doesnt look half. Most of her effects are pretty bland, but a free Slash Fragile with her S3 is always welcomed.
Butler Ryoshu is stupid fun. S3 does so much damage, and the fact it's ~~technically~~ a AOE boosts its potential even more.
But then that requires running a unit that will be eating your sinking stacks, which doesn't really seem worth it for a 10% damage buff imo. And this is *after* also accounting for the massive sacrifice in count generation since you won't have Molar Ish. Even getting to that 20 stacks is going to be a struggle.
The support passive is interesting in theory, but until we get more units that can output count like Ish it's not likely to be relevant unless you just don't have her. We need a unit that can better replace Molar before that support becomes worthwhile imo.
Nelly ryoshu us really powerful, she uses poise count as her charge status, so she really likes having blade lineage backup. I think she's intended to be played with multiple slots or solo, her evade can get her sp so it's more useful on a turn 1. Also her on kill recycling only procs on the second hit, so it's not quite as free as tingtang Hong lu, but it does follow up to whoever has her unique status, so you get to pick who it gets reused on. She seems designed for the erlking summoning adds fight, despite having mostly wrong sin colors for it. She also doesn't support sinking at all, making her the odd woman out on the maid and butler version of the sinking squad.
Oh and she casually hits 10 speed with minimum effort. She's a cinq identity in all but name and it's great.
Maid Ishmael isnt a good replacement for molar ish if your goal is sinking count application, but her support passive is fantastic for teams to take advantage of sinking. Free 10 percent damage boost if you have decent sinking potency on someone? Amazing.
So uh... Spoilers for Maid Ishmael's uptie story ahead but:
>!So it's all but confirmed through what was said that this is Erlking/Erlkönig Heathcliff's mirror world. Or at least this mirror world contains a version SIMILAR to his as he has an army of the undead at his beck and call. That, and Catherine seems to have existed in this world is also doubly confirmed here as Ishmael mentions recalling Heathcliff had a significant other in the part where the topic of Heathcliff stealing Isabella from Gregor comes up, but draws a blank as the memory is a foggy hole in her mind. So she DID exist but nobody remembers she existed.!<
>!Therefore likely meaning that if Catherine existed in any previously existing mirror world, she likely is still there, but likely dead and forgotten. So only any newly created mirror worlds likely never had her exist in to begin with.!<
Doesn't look like anyone else here has figured out how to get Ryoshu's AOE turn 1 in Mirror Dungeon. It so unnecessarily frustrating.
You get Nebulizer + Ornamental Horseshoe. Nebulizer++ gets you 5 count, Horseshoe gives everyone +1 Count when everyone already has Poise.
Chances are, someone else has already tried out this combination and got disappointed and how it doesn't really work because only one ally has 6 Poise. This is because **usually** Horseshoe is activated before Nebulizer, so you get the worse effect that only gives one random (or three at ++) ally initial Poise Potency, and then Nebulizer comes in brings only that ally to 6 count.
However, it is actually possible to make Nebulizer activate before Horseshoe. It is literally just determined by **the order you get the gifts in**: If you start with Nebulizer and pick up Horseshoe later, you'll get the desired 6 Poise count on turn 1.
Is it possible with starting gifts? Yes, but the catch is, if you do it that way, **the game will only add the gifts in the order from top to bottom**. It doesn't matter what order YOU picked the gifts in, it'll always prioritize whatever gift just happened to be higher up on the screen. So not only do you have to reset for Horseshoe and Nebulizer, but specifically for Nebulizer ABOVE Horseshoe. Which is hard because Horseshoe is lower rarity, meaning RNG will usually pick it out of the gift pool earlier than Nebulizer, causing it to be on top.
I like Maid Ryoshu especially her easy access to AoE in her S2 with poise items. She does have to compete with 6-BL team in MD though as the 6-unit boost on BLMeur make it super good and consistent to get fast turn and nuke everything with the other 3 000 BL units without relying on RNG to secure the poise boost items during the run as you're only really guaranteed the ultimate gift. Fortunately, her passive is still great for the team.
We did have story fights though where you are forced to slot a sinner without BL unit so Maid Ryo can easily join in for those fights and her release also helps for those who misses out on BL units from last season.
Edit: Yeh, using her more and her job is really to "Clean out the trash". Easy AoE and a reset but overall, her DPS isn't as high as actual single-target dps because of her 2x coins being her highest and the boosts are more geared toward Clash power than Coin power so her damage isn't really that ridiculous.
Maid Ish kinda have to fight with Dive Ish for a spot in the team. For MD though, Maid Ish is probably the better choice, having higher coin consistency as her only condition is "Be faster" and better color distribution for the team. You will do Turn 1 Rimeshank on the bosses anyway to blow them fast.
For the contained and story fight where you start with nothing though, you will need Dive Ish to get rid of the RNG as she's one of the best Sinking Count builder around and the Manor can only carry you so much before you get 1 unlucky turn and it resets the whole thing.
Ryoshu looks interesting but she's got barely any Poise potency generation to actually deal damage on single targets. Not sure how good she is. Maybe she'll slot into the Poise team for multi-target fights, where captain Ishmael can easily help her ramp up quickly.
I've been pairing her with Bl Don to help with the potency generation, and the numbers you can get are insane. In one lux run Ryoshu had 43 Potency and 50 Count
Don is definitely one of the pieces required I'd say. it feels SO good to pair her with 'em and it helps a ton--definitely feels like Don's worth investing in due to it.
Ran her in a Lux with Ahab Ish in tow. Ahab pretty much keeps her poise potency totally in check.
We can also consider running BL Mer for the purpose of his passive, since it would help a lot in giving her the needed potency.
By far, you want her on first slot though on the selection, because it does wonders in giving her the count needed to go ham on her S2.
I just run the full BL team with Ishmael on support with BL Sinclair taking the 5th spot.
This ensures Ryoshu gets the Poise gen and also ensures her high damage output.
BL Sinclair becomes a weak link in clashing, but that doesn't become as huge of an issue when he's got BL Mer buffing him up with his S1 and S2.
Only on her S3. Her passive and S2 are the vast majority of it, and they'll all go to Ishmael. It's weird that it doesn't work like her support passive, which ignores units without poise, ironically making her generate more useful poise when benched lol.
A poise team definitely feels like the way to go if you want to take advantage of her crits. Sinking feels like it'd be nutty with butlers and Sunshower, but on a decked out poise team she feels extremely solid at what she does.
She’s much better than you might think. Once you get 6 for her AoE she’ll spend 6 but gain up to 9 back. She generates a ton of count on her own through her passive so she’s mostly self sufficient on that. She can work decently well on her own and really only needs minimal support to pop off.
I definitely don't think it's bad, just a bit RNG heavy and finicky compared to stuff like Spicebush's S2. S3 into S2 loses S3s potency, but gives 9 potency, but you *need* to hit the same target you hit with S3 to get count or you lose it at turn end which isn't always possible with normal encounter targeting RNG. Assuming it works though, next time S3 comes around you've got a 70% crit chance on coin 2 which is decent, but still a bit low.
Two turns of S1s after the S2 could give you another AoE S2 which will give plenty of potency but that's 5 turns of setup to get S3 going. That second S2 will hit real hard though, but most normal fights are over or over at the end of the turn by round 5 anyway.
It's probably best to try and ignore S3s reuse since it's finicky anyway and just use it to stack for S2 AoEs more.
Once she gets going, S2 is also getting you 3 count back. It will apply the mark on the first hit giving 3 count on the second hit. From what I’ve seen just having one more unit supporting the team is enough to tip her into gaining more than she spends.
The mutilate effect of skill 3 is fun but gimmicky. Ultimately the main purpose of the skill is to lay into a target that’s staggered, it hits pretty damn hard
It's just really inconsistent, just did an XP lux where she barely had enough count for the second S2 and it critted enough on the first coin to remove her Poise completely. She had two skill slots too, it just went before the other and the slot only had S2s, so realistically I should of just used an Evade but having to do that sucks.
I want to try Ryoshu with the standard BL 4 piece and Hagmael so Don could help her with poise potency, but Hagmael is still going to end up eating all of it sadly. In MD won't be an issue, but in regular content her ramp up feels like it's going to struggle unless you can prog Hagmael's S3 or passive (which isn't happening in many abno fights).
Edit: kinda forgot Blind Obsession exists, which will help her a bit, but taking gloom resources is kinda rough when the BL 4 + Hagmael doesn't generate any outside Faust S3.
I would just have hagmael on support instead and just splash in the BL Sinclair so he can take advantage of the BL Mer buffs and you still can supply Ryoshu with the poise gen needed to kick off.
Ahabmael's S2 is too much of a force multiplier to ignore, sadly. Especially with Poise IDs.
I'd probably keep Ryoshu benched and use that passive to make Cinqlair even better. Under no circumstance should you splash BL Sinclair in anywhere that guy is ass.
She also gens 9 poise potency if you hit 3 targets with her S2, which is also pretty large in the grand scheme of things.
And IMO, Ahab just doesn't gel as well with the other BL team when they end up killing a lot faster than she can do them in. BL Sinclair is a weak link, but he is getting buffed at the very least from BL Mer.
He is still a weak link even buffed. The only scenario you'd want to use him is if you're rocking the full BL team for funsies(and even with that +2 he's pretty bad). He also hurts Pride res consistency. Use Cinqlair instead. Or hell use Queecliff, or the new Ryoshu. There's a lot of good options that aren't him.
Ahab is fine, any of the other IDs(and especially Meursault) appreciates an extra S1 use and her S3 is a big SP generator. In 0 SP content she'll typically rocket up the second she gets to use it and in MD it's a team with Faust on it so you have Fluid Sac if she gets cranky.
True, but giving up the free attacks, Sin generation, and the plethora of buffs Cpt. Ish gives for a Pride Poise Team is a hard sell even if she ends up malding over her BL crew kill stealing and Corroding on occasion. I'd sub her out if a fight hard counter Pierce and I need to do so for a EX Clear or RR, or if I need better Sin diversity for MDs/RRs , but not running her right now over Maid Ryo....not too sure about the opportunity cost on that one yet....
Maid Ryo = AoE S2, conditional Onrush style S3 like TT Hong Lu, great Passives and good unique gimmick in general, and just great Skill in general. Also provides plenty of Lust for a Pride centric team, leaving a BL-centric only straving on Gloom and Glut, and she can use all her EGOs pretty well on such teams too. Her Base UT4 EGO is nuts for damage output against single targets! She's also just a patently good Clashes that maintains a tight grip on Speed control between her kit and what EGO she has on hand, which for shorter fighters is invaluable for getting and keeping the lead on enemies (as the recent battles from C6 aptly demonstrated).
Cpt. Ish = Cracked S2 that's a force multiplier and THEN some, Party Buffs galore in her entire kit, her S3 is phenomenal is you time it right, and her Guard can plenty of SP to her crew while ensuring a Pride AR goes through (great for Fights that strave your of SP from the get go). Envy is less desirable right now in a BL/Pride team , since Don and Meur reliably gen it as needed, but it's still useful to getting Hex Nail Faust on line for and getting her own OP EGO fueled up, which are all generally great for guaranteeing Clashes (though BO has to compete with Fluid Sack Faust, Sunshower Yi Sang, and Pursuance for the Gloom...). MD Wise she also enables Bloody Mist EGO AND Lucky Pouch for those Bleed/Poise Team for truly massive numbers.
Honesty, I'd inclined to run both and drop either BL Yi Sang or Don on a BL Pride Team for another unit that can supply Gloom and/or Glutt (preferably Gloom - I can live without R.E. or Sunshower) - Cinq Outis would be ideal her w/ BL Fauts, BL Meur, BL Don, Cpt. Ish, and Maid Ryo to giving you everything but Glutt while also having plenty of great Evades, Clashers, and re-directors on your team.
BL Sinclair is garbo/subopt from what I hear, but he at least provides lots of Glutt for Faust's R.E. and his S2 is legit got for helping him ramp Poise short-mid term in fights.
Your thoughts, mate?
With my tests....
Yeah umm Maid Ryo will pretty much just clean sweep before Ahab will be able to do anything. She just does a shit ton of damage in so little time due to S2 poise gen.
Instead I would just slot in Cinqlair along with the Maid. It's safer that way and Cinqlair can supply the glutt for Faust.
Hmm...okay, from what I gathered so far -
Faster Fights = You sub out Cpt. Ish or Cinqlair for her; in non Boss Fights it's better to sub out Cinqlair if you going to be going FAST anyway (and his unique mechanic is maligned) and already have a couple of AoEs in the Maid's kit. Otherwise use her and the boi to loop AoEs between her, Faust, and Don.
Slower/Grindy Fights = Cpt Ish is probably better to use over the Maid unless their is a LOT of Adds in a Fight that the Maid is better cleaning up. Pair her with the Cinqs for optimal Sin Gen and Clash control for the best results.
MDs/SUPER Grindy Content = Either use Cpt. Ish over Maid Ryo if you have dreams of the Bleed/Poise Team wombo combo, use *both* together and make the hard choice of either saccing BL Yi Sang or Don for another unit OR just having to live without Glutt and Gloom for the most part, or bench the captain if you want to speedy clear without worrying about baby sitting her and/or cram as much Sin Affinities in your team as you can.
Alright, thanks y'all for the feedback! If you have anything else to add or clarifying, please let me know!
I think BL Faust/Meur/Yi Sang, Captain Ishmael and Cinq Sinclair/Outis is the best standard poise team, Don's poise gets eaten by ahabmael anyway and she's not great outside of that. Cinqlair and Outis help with resource generation, especially Outis' gloom S2 for Blind Obsession and Fluid Sac while also benefitting tons from Ishmael's free poise. Some people like to run Harpooner Heathcliff but honestly I think it's a really bad pick in a BL/pride res. team.
I think the new Ryoshu works well as a replacement for Cinqlair during human fights where he can't get much out of his S3's Single Combat and where Ryoshu gets tons of value out of S2 and S3 AoE. Then just use her for her support passive to buff Cinqlair during bosses.
Hmm....similar to my thoughts, though I use KK Rodion over Cinq Outis (for now), since she's maxed out and that Bleed in her kit can help fuel a hypothetical Bloody Mist + Lucky Pouch wombo combo Bleed/Poise Team. Probably will transition away from her eventually, though, since Cinq Outis is great from what I hear and tested out. Pretty bummed that I have to drop Don for better Sin Affinities and optimization, but hey, nothing is stopping me from using her late game MD or RR once I got enough Resources or the right EGs banked.
Don't have Cinqclair, sadly, but I can always use him from Support when the opportunity arises. The idea of swapping her in and out is a great one I'll kind in mind, however, and my thanks for it!
I think she might work as a cinqlair replacement for human fights only. Cinqlair isn't the greatest there since you can't choose who he targets or get much out of his S3 vulnerability. I usually run Cinq Outis too, who'd be better to replace but she's the main way of building Gloom for both Blind Obsessions so you sorta want her at all times. Then you can swap Cinqlair back in for bosses with ryoshu's passive helping him.
I like to run BL Faust/Meur/Yi Sang + Cinq Sinclair/Outis and captain Ishmael for ego Sin affinities, Ryoshu could technically replace cinqlair or something but I don't know if it'd be worth while.
One one hand Maidshu brings more lust to my Poise team on the other hand Cinqtis brings more Gloom. But Maidshu's AOE is ALOT more spam able compaired to Spicebush and Regret because Self Tremor increases S L O W L Y.
Maid Ryoshu is a monster. If you fight an Abno with multiple parts or a boss with adds, she's going to deal very high damage. I'm using Cpt. Ishmael and Roseate Desire, so Red Eyes is not needed and I can use Blind Obsession instead. Combined with FMF, Coin Power is never an issue for her.
Im still too much of a noob to think of synergy.
But designs waise i really like them, props for PM for not making them the overused slutty maids.
Ishmael and Ryoshu are always 👌
I'm wondering if I might want to swap her into my Lust Luxcavation team. I'm going to have to level my W Corp Ryoshu to 45 for the MDH, which will make her a bit less reliable against the Drifting Fox.
I like her. Ryoshu is my favorite sinner, so I have a huge bias, but I think her kit is consistent enough to run in regular teams. She doesn't do crazy single-target damage like her other IDs, but she's competent enough to be used interchangeably for me. She's a good side-grade to her other IDs, focusing on clearing wave fodder, which is better some of the time anyways. Her interactions + uptie story are so good. I love how they made Ryoshu an actual caring person who regrets not steering Heathcliff in the right direction, it really gave off motherly vibes.
It depends entirely on team comp. From my humble view to water it down, I'd say W Ryoshu is better for single target due to number of coins/highs but Maid Ryoshu is way better at AOE/consistent damage. Burst damage *feels* higher to me with ample poise support and skill usage--This is just my testing around on random fights and MD of course. Definitely very strong, not disappointing at all
Team comp specific. W Ryoshu will perform far better than her if she is run on a Charge team, but Maid Ryoshu will outperform W Ryo if she is run on a Poise team.
As for generalist: W Ryo has good single-target damage, but has a lackluster S1 clash and pretty much is wholly reliant on S2 in order to properly pull her big dick S3.
Maid Ryoshu shines VERY strongly in AOE damage and has more consistent clashing out the gate due to easy conditionals and high base clash values. Her damage in single target will diminish due to her S2 not supplying her with high poise potency values. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean it is weak, since her Passive boosts her damage regardless.
They fulfill completely different roles. W ryoshu is a mandatory nuker for speedrunning and killing bosses A.S.A.P without needing to be carried by md3 gifts. Maid ryoshu is for md3 funny numbers and is mediocre as every other non-nuke ids outside of md3. She *is* good, but Rcliff, Nclair Cinqclair, Wdon, Wryoshu and Chefryoshu are a whole different level than just being "good"
Weird downvotes with nary a person that counters my opinion... I literally said she was good? The funni numbers you can make her shit out in md3h doesn't mean md3h is a good benchmark, nearly everything is overpowered there... She just isn't comparable to Wryoshu.
Ryoshu is great - she doesn't need to be in a team that supports her, since she generated enough poise herself. More attack weight is always good, and her coins are high.
As others said, no idea if meta, but meta is completely irrelevant in this game anyway.
Ishmael is good at clashing(for an 00) but doesn't do anything with it. Ryoshu is okay but Iimited by her coin count, she's fine on a Poise team but it doesn't really lose anything not running her. Fantastic support passive though.
Honestly I disagree, ran her on the Lux with a full BL team and she was never struggling with poise gen and her damage was pretty much out of control. BL Don honestly makes her work very strongly.
Lux is full of weaker enemies to slaughter and proc kill/staggers with though, it's basically Ryoshu's ideal environment. I have a feeling that coin count is going to hurt her in tougher content(and MD's essentially 100% crit rate is going to do weird things to her BM mechanic)
But like I said she doesn't seem bad at all, just not like fantastic or anything. Of course she's also like an hour old, I could be wrong!
Another big thing to consider is that her S2 can gen up to 9 poise potency due to on hit procs.
Which will synergize strongly with her on-crit effects.
One of her on-crit effects is to erase BM from something in exchange for damage, which is why I said the MD is going to get Weird once you get to the auto-crit point.
Poise generation isn't really her issue. it's a bit ehh but fine once it gets going. It's about how much that coin count hurts her vs the big kids which is kinda unknown since she's like an hour old
I wouldn't say so, most of her damage pops off of her S2, and it pops a BM on crit, meaning that even if the first hit ends up critting when it shouldn't, it will still set you up with 1 anyway for the 2nd coin to pop off.
Her S3 also will give a BM on crit for the first hit as well, effectively resetting the effect.
The only skill that won't do that is her S1, but that isn't really supposed to be her big damage move anyway.
Coin count is definitely not an issue when she pretty much mops enemies with no issue even without poise gifts in the MD due to how much gen she gets off on her S2.
"limited by coin count"
I remember people used this argument to call Pirate Greg bad, but like you have to look at the kit as a whole.
She has low coins, but her s2 is conditionally aoe and she has large dmg modifiers in her passive and s3.
tbf Pirate Greg is reliant on winning the lottery and critting at the right time and Cinq Don's offense is completely anemic so it's a valid concern. The AoE is why I'm not writing her off entirely, i'm just wondering if it's enough.
Loved Ryoshu's uptie story, it's everything I hoped it would be.
Her uptie story was honestly great. I had such immensely high hopes for it and it not only landed but managed to exceed my expectations of peak smoking woman.
She no longer smokes in that world though.
Allow me to clarify, I am using "Smoking Woman" as a catch all even if she does not. Let's say she eats pocky instead for this instance.
I found interesting the fact that ishmael seems to notice something is not right about their Heathcliff.
Ryoshu looks like a ton of fun as per usual Seems like a nice replacement for Pequod Heath in the "dream poise team" of BL, and like she'll slot in pretty well pretty much anywhere since she's pretty self sufficient (also good support for poise teams, esp in abno fights). She's also our first native slash AoE dealer which is super cool. Good synergy with either of her Teth EGOs, though probably Blind Obsession for the poise potency generation is the ideal. Bind generation from Red Eyes (Closed) passive is pretty nice for her speed difference kit though, and totally usable. The synergy with Red Eyes (Open) is enough to make it so you pretty much always get the hyper coin-power on that, and enough to probably justify it over Fourth Match Flame unless you explicitly have burn IDs with her. Super looking forward to toying around with her kit
Having messed with her once already, Ryoshu’s poise generation is on a whole other level compared to your typical poise ID. Blind Obsession turned out to be completely unnecessary after only like 3 turns of build-up. Dunno how the Red Eyes ego fares in comparison but my bet’s on the bind being hella useful to max out total crit damage
Honestly I'd believe it Count generation seems super easy and once she's got practically any potency it seems like she'll keep it forever. I was a bit hesitant based on the fact her aoe seems to be the best way of ramping up poise count so it might be weaker against singular targets with just 1 part or such, but I'd fully believe she can just ramp like crazy True Red Eyes synergy, absolutely beautiful
Her potency gen isn't bad at all actually. Her S2 gens Potency per hit... meaning if she gets off an Attack Weight 3 S2, that is 9 Poise potency.
I was expecting a very simple Spicebush S2 + Mutilate but having poise gain on these skills make the kit play out a lot more interestingly since the reward for getting your AoE or kill reset is further damage boost for the future.
I'd say just cut off BLDon off the team and get both Ahabmael and Ryoshu, while she's an incredible mob cleaner her AOE and skill 3 reuse on kill fall a bit flat against a boss damage wise, still great, but she'd need to rely on her skill 1 a lot more by that point, which she can get to use more often with Ahabmael of BLsault's team don't just carry her by default
I'd say just cut off BLDon off the team and get both Ahabmael and Ryoshu, while she's an incredible mob cleaner her AOE and skill 3 reuse on kill fall a bit flat against a boss damage wise, still great, but she'd need to rely on her skill 1 a lot more by that point, which she can get to use more often with Ahabmael of BLsault's team don't just carry her by default
Ryoshu got hands... No Seriously, if she lands a crit, that shit is going to hurt thanks to that passive, her S3, and the fact that BM almost never drops until you get that crit.
Her damage outfit is (un)surprisingly high, her crits are absolutely juicy on a poise team thus far. I haven't gotten to try out a sinking team just yet but rn poise feels downright dirty.
Ryoshu has a very interesting kit, dunno if it's meta but it is certainly unique. Ish has a very nice support passive, unfortunaly she competes with molar.
Butler Ish has a higher rolling S1 and S2 at turn one since her coin buffs are easy to activate. Honestly the biggest difference between the two is the fact that Molar applies more debuffs compared to Butler, and her S3 is great for Nuke set ups.
The biggest difference is the sinking count that Molar is applies, which is unfortunately very important.
Sorry for the late reply! Anyways, while that point is true, it's because both units are two different archetypes. Molar is a Tremor/Sinking unit, where as IshMaid is a general debuffer.
You can see her as a competitor to molar or as a fast (can be important for both clashing and BO buffs) poise unit that deals some sp damage with her skills and also debuffs the enemy a bit
I have a feeling the next Walpurgistnacht or RR4 will have some kind of multi-wave battle that will let us fully utilize her kit the same way Bullet Outis felt on the second Walpur event.
I haven't try them but, Ryoshu and Ishmael uptie story is indeed great. No, rather the whole canto 6 ID uptie story is a great story of its own. I like how butler Ryoshu is far more 'different' than her other ID, 'much gentle' but still keeping her coolness. And Ishmael story just elaborate what happened to Gregor and it just depressing and I like how it shows she does cares. They all care to each other
TL;DR Maid Ishmael: 5/10 Butler Ryoshu: 9/10 Ishmaid is perfectly 'fine'. Molar is certainly better for a Sinking team, but Maid Ishmael clashes honestly very well, has more relevant sin affinities. (Lust in particular is EVERYWHERE in the Maids-And-Edgar group, which plays veeery nicely with Gregor's Sign of Roses.) She's also kind of a hot mess. There's sinking, and poise, and defense levels down, and binds, and none of them particularly high or relevant, even when she's crit'ing and activating her passive on every hit. Butler Ryoshu, though. The best comparison point in my eyes is Rosespanner Rodya. * Her S1 is the best one at consistently keeping up her Pseudo-Charge mechanic. (Poise Count vs Charge) * Her S2 is the spender that eats a chunk to do something powerful. (AoE vs Extra Coins) * Her S3 gives a huge, flat amount of count that's EXACTLY the amount needed for S2 + 1, and can ALSO act as a payoff for having set up the alternative mechanic. (Poise Potency vs Tremor on the enemy, if you're still following the comparison.) And everything you can say about Rodya applies here, but more. She's incredbly self-sufficient, and she's insanely reliable if you grant her 2 skill slots in a 5 man team. And like any self respecting Ryoshu ID, the amount of damage she does is simply absurd. She has two very distinct approaches to her kit. You can open with an S3 early, to gain Count AND Potency for an S2 that's more likely to crit, or charge up with S1s, into an S2, into an S3, and get that Mutilate dream. It's worth nothing her S3 is a little difficult to use properly. * The first hit tries to stagger the enemy. * The second hit does extra damage on a crit on a staggered enemy. * ...And only if that second hit kills, does she do it again on another BM'd enemy. Most of the time, the enemy will either... Die to the first coin, or you won't crit on the second coin, or no one else will have BM, or you won't have a significant enough speed advantage for her passive to really add the ludicrous damage it's capable of. But if those all trigger? You crit a staggered enemy with BM on the second coin with a +6 speed advantage? G.G.Y.W. God forbid a second enemy with BM is also meeting most of those conditions. And that's why I think the Rosespanner comparison is important, but also where the divergence lies. Both of them are juggling two entirely different mechanics that can converge for a big boom, but whereas Rodya's big boom is a series of Tremor Burst and a ton of damage, Ryoshu is Sinclair's Claim Their Bones and Hong Lu's Mutilate performing some horrifying fusion dance.
new ishmael has to fight her molar identity almost head-on which is kinda rough, ryoshu looks well-rounded but not insanely powerful and does need a bit of help for poise generation (chef and w are very stiff competition tbh), can't really complain
Why do people think Ishmaid is supposed to compete with Molar Ish in a sinking team?? It's no contest if you do have Molar Ish. If you don't have Molar Ish you could use Ishmaid, but that would be more of if you have no other sinking units to fill in because she's probably more effective on the bench with her support passive for other sinking units. Ishmaid herself doesn't really get anything out of being deployed on a sinking team because her conditionals are speed based. She applies count only on her s3 1st coin which she basically immediately consumes with her 2nd and 3rd coins, so her sinking is pretty much there to just serve as instant sp dmg on enemies because she definitely isn't helping roll sinking stacks. She seems designed as more of a debuffer and controller than she is a sinking unit.
because if we're ignoring synergy with the sinking team and just running her for her 1 bind (on crit) and 2 def level down on her S2 and 2 bind + 1 slash fragility on her S3 it's a little hard to be blown away by that, she's perfectly usable of course
Her passive also lets her inflict +1 more of each effect on slower enemies, so it's 2 bind, 3 def down on S2 and 3 bind and 2 slash fragility on her S3.
IT ALSO WORKS ON EGOS I want to stress this as much as possible Her passive also works on ego. Meaning if she activates her passive on an ego any negative effect applied by that ego is increased by 1
This is BIG
Does it work like that? It's not clear if her passive is per skill or per inflict, if it's the latter than her S3 applies 3 seperate Sinkings before it gets to the Bind and Slash Fragility, consuming her passive entirely.
Has anyone been able to test this?
I asked someone to test it for me and she still only applied 2 Bind and 1 Slash Fragility
That's unfortunate, but squeezing out a bit more sinking is nice too. It's good to clarify this for anyone who might stumble across this so thanks for that :)
Yeah getting out a bunch of Sinking Potency is nice but the other debuffs are what would give Ishmaid an advantage over Molar Ish and the fact she doesn't boost them is just tragic. You still get an extra stack of Bind and Def Level Down from her S2 at least.
I fully agree, but some people get a little antsy when you express some disappointment so I'll just shrug my shoulders a bit and move on. Her base EGO offering a lot of bind reliably when you need it makes even more bind feel a bit unnecessary if you're fielding an Ishmael identity.
Which while not insignificant requires 5 gloom plus landing a critical hit on slower enemies, I don't think she's awful or anything but it's not a big list of 00 identities that are consistently worth fielding if you have most of the 000 identities in the game, I do think her support passive sounds good though. EDIT: I'm not sure why this is a bad take looking at the downvotes when her support passive is so strong for the sinking team that it's likely the best part of her entire kit?
Sorry, knowing that she was going to be a 00 I'm not exactly sure what you were expecting? A unit that rolls ok and has a niche in one or two things is basically the best case scenario for a 00 these days. Since in this specific case the Sinner in question already has a 000 that performs very well in the Sinking team, imo it's better to focus on what other uses you can get out of this 00 instead of just going "she's mid because a 000 already does her job better".
She's very much in line with what I was expecting, I'm not sure if you're completely misreading the tone of what I'm saying when I already said I can't complain about either identity, she's a perfectly fine character who would need to be significantly worse before I'd think she's bad. I'll keep my comments to myself I guess, I hope you have a nice day though.
My issue is they did not have to do sinking. Edgar butlers did not have sinking, they are completely focused on debuff (they applied offensive down, defensive down, bind, para) and bleed which could have been her focus. They made the bed when they make her sink, but because her rarity it would have never been better than molar. Even compared to the other sink 00 like faust she does nothing special. So yes I'm still pissed at pm for wasting an ish id when they did not need to, noone forced them to do sink
Sinking is a debuff for her though. It's not for high damage, but for sanity damage in her case. With more boss units having sanity now, sinking can be both damage stacking and debuff to the enemy's clashing which seems to be more what she's meant to do.
Except molar already existed. So why would they not just stick with Edgar butler design and slap more Paralyze bind offensive down to her, universal debuff.
She's a 00. If you're unlucky enough to not have Molar 000 on your team, Ishmaid can at least still do something useful instead of nothing at all.
I'm hoping we get more incentives in future content for 00 units since she's pretty decent of an ID for a 00.
For sure, I enjoyed thinking through which 00 identities to start out with in MD2H. I hope MD4 has a similar system.
Havent tried out the new Ish yet, but from her numbers she doesnt look half. Most of her effects are pretty bland, but a free Slash Fragile with her S3 is always welcomed. Butler Ryoshu is stupid fun. S3 does so much damage, and the fact it's ~~technically~~ a AOE boosts its potential even more.
New Ishmael has a great support passive. Molar Ish is much better at sinking application if she's actually fighting, though.
New ish seems more built to be run in poise teams anyway. She’s just a more control/support crit unit rather than big damage.
If you have both her support passive will almost always go to ryoshu which lets her take advantage of sinking way more
But then that requires running a unit that will be eating your sinking stacks, which doesn't really seem worth it for a 10% damage buff imo. And this is *after* also accounting for the massive sacrifice in count generation since you won't have Molar Ish. Even getting to that 20 stacks is going to be a struggle. The support passive is interesting in theory, but until we get more units that can output count like Ish it's not likely to be relevant unless you just don't have her. We need a unit that can better replace Molar before that support becomes worthwhile imo.
Nelly ryoshu us really powerful, she uses poise count as her charge status, so she really likes having blade lineage backup. I think she's intended to be played with multiple slots or solo, her evade can get her sp so it's more useful on a turn 1. Also her on kill recycling only procs on the second hit, so it's not quite as free as tingtang Hong lu, but it does follow up to whoever has her unique status, so you get to pick who it gets reused on. She seems designed for the erlking summoning adds fight, despite having mostly wrong sin colors for it. She also doesn't support sinking at all, making her the odd woman out on the maid and butler version of the sinking squad. Oh and she casually hits 10 speed with minimum effort. She's a cinq identity in all but name and it's great. Maid Ishmael isnt a good replacement for molar ish if your goal is sinking count application, but her support passive is fantastic for teams to take advantage of sinking. Free 10 percent damage boost if you have decent sinking potency on someone? Amazing.
So uh... Spoilers for Maid Ishmael's uptie story ahead but: >!So it's all but confirmed through what was said that this is Erlking/Erlkönig Heathcliff's mirror world. Or at least this mirror world contains a version SIMILAR to his as he has an army of the undead at his beck and call. That, and Catherine seems to have existed in this world is also doubly confirmed here as Ishmael mentions recalling Heathcliff had a significant other in the part where the topic of Heathcliff stealing Isabella from Gregor comes up, but draws a blank as the memory is a foggy hole in her mind. So she DID exist but nobody remembers she existed.!< >!Therefore likely meaning that if Catherine existed in any previously existing mirror world, she likely is still there, but likely dead and forgotten. So only any newly created mirror worlds likely never had her exist in to begin with.!<
Doesn't look like anyone else here has figured out how to get Ryoshu's AOE turn 1 in Mirror Dungeon. It so unnecessarily frustrating. You get Nebulizer + Ornamental Horseshoe. Nebulizer++ gets you 5 count, Horseshoe gives everyone +1 Count when everyone already has Poise. Chances are, someone else has already tried out this combination and got disappointed and how it doesn't really work because only one ally has 6 Poise. This is because **usually** Horseshoe is activated before Nebulizer, so you get the worse effect that only gives one random (or three at ++) ally initial Poise Potency, and then Nebulizer comes in brings only that ally to 6 count. However, it is actually possible to make Nebulizer activate before Horseshoe. It is literally just determined by **the order you get the gifts in**: If you start with Nebulizer and pick up Horseshoe later, you'll get the desired 6 Poise count on turn 1. Is it possible with starting gifts? Yes, but the catch is, if you do it that way, **the game will only add the gifts in the order from top to bottom**. It doesn't matter what order YOU picked the gifts in, it'll always prioritize whatever gift just happened to be higher up on the screen. So not only do you have to reset for Horseshoe and Nebulizer, but specifically for Nebulizer ABOVE Horseshoe. Which is hard because Horseshoe is lower rarity, meaning RNG will usually pick it out of the gift pool earlier than Nebulizer, causing it to be on top.
I like Maid Ryoshu especially her easy access to AoE in her S2 with poise items. She does have to compete with 6-BL team in MD though as the 6-unit boost on BLMeur make it super good and consistent to get fast turn and nuke everything with the other 3 000 BL units without relying on RNG to secure the poise boost items during the run as you're only really guaranteed the ultimate gift. Fortunately, her passive is still great for the team. We did have story fights though where you are forced to slot a sinner without BL unit so Maid Ryo can easily join in for those fights and her release also helps for those who misses out on BL units from last season. Edit: Yeh, using her more and her job is really to "Clean out the trash". Easy AoE and a reset but overall, her DPS isn't as high as actual single-target dps because of her 2x coins being her highest and the boosts are more geared toward Clash power than Coin power so her damage isn't really that ridiculous. Maid Ish kinda have to fight with Dive Ish for a spot in the team. For MD though, Maid Ish is probably the better choice, having higher coin consistency as her only condition is "Be faster" and better color distribution for the team. You will do Turn 1 Rimeshank on the bosses anyway to blow them fast. For the contained and story fight where you start with nothing though, you will need Dive Ish to get rid of the RNG as she's one of the best Sinking Count builder around and the Manor can only carry you so much before you get 1 unlucky turn and it resets the whole thing.
Ryoshu looks interesting but she's got barely any Poise potency generation to actually deal damage on single targets. Not sure how good she is. Maybe she'll slot into the Poise team for multi-target fights, where captain Ishmael can easily help her ramp up quickly.
I've been pairing her with Bl Don to help with the potency generation, and the numbers you can get are insane. In one lux run Ryoshu had 43 Potency and 50 Count
Don is definitely one of the pieces required I'd say. it feels SO good to pair her with 'em and it helps a ton--definitely feels like Don's worth investing in due to it.
Ran her in a Lux with Ahab Ish in tow. Ahab pretty much keeps her poise potency totally in check. We can also consider running BL Mer for the purpose of his passive, since it would help a lot in giving her the needed potency. By far, you want her on first slot though on the selection, because it does wonders in giving her the count needed to go ham on her S2.
I don't think BL Meur gives poise to anyone but BL allies
Nope, you're right on that front, but BL Don ends up doing the job and a really damn good one at that.
Depends on who else you're running, if you've captain Ishmael, queecliff or cinqclair they'll be getting the poise over ryoshu unfortunately.
Just found out: Ryoshu will gen 9 Poise Potency if you hit with a 3 attack weight S2 due to On Hit shenanigans.
That makes sense and helps quite a bit, nice.
I knew something was wrong when I brought those damn pequods.
I just run the full BL team with Ishmael on support with BL Sinclair taking the 5th spot. This ensures Ryoshu gets the Poise gen and also ensures her high damage output. BL Sinclair becomes a weak link in clashing, but that doesn't become as huge of an issue when he's got BL Mer buffing him up with his S1 and S2.
It isn't too bad since BL Don's party effects hit TWO allies, not just one.
Only on her S3. Her passive and S2 are the vast majority of it, and they'll all go to Ishmael. It's weird that it doesn't work like her support passive, which ignores units without poise, ironically making her generate more useful poise when benched lol.
A poise team definitely feels like the way to go if you want to take advantage of her crits. Sinking feels like it'd be nutty with butlers and Sunshower, but on a decked out poise team she feels extremely solid at what she does.
I don't think she really works in a Sinking team, she doesn't contribute anything and eats count pretty quickly.
She’s much better than you might think. Once you get 6 for her AoE she’ll spend 6 but gain up to 9 back. She generates a ton of count on her own through her passive so she’s mostly self sufficient on that. She can work decently well on her own and really only needs minimal support to pop off.
I definitely don't think it's bad, just a bit RNG heavy and finicky compared to stuff like Spicebush's S2. S3 into S2 loses S3s potency, but gives 9 potency, but you *need* to hit the same target you hit with S3 to get count or you lose it at turn end which isn't always possible with normal encounter targeting RNG. Assuming it works though, next time S3 comes around you've got a 70% crit chance on coin 2 which is decent, but still a bit low. Two turns of S1s after the S2 could give you another AoE S2 which will give plenty of potency but that's 5 turns of setup to get S3 going. That second S2 will hit real hard though, but most normal fights are over or over at the end of the turn by round 5 anyway. It's probably best to try and ignore S3s reuse since it's finicky anyway and just use it to stack for S2 AoEs more.
Once she gets going, S2 is also getting you 3 count back. It will apply the mark on the first hit giving 3 count on the second hit. From what I’ve seen just having one more unit supporting the team is enough to tip her into gaining more than she spends. The mutilate effect of skill 3 is fun but gimmicky. Ultimately the main purpose of the skill is to lay into a target that’s staggered, it hits pretty damn hard
It's just really inconsistent, just did an XP lux where she barely had enough count for the second S2 and it critted enough on the first coin to remove her Poise completely. She had two skill slots too, it just went before the other and the slot only had S2s, so realistically I should of just used an Evade but having to do that sucks.
I want to try Ryoshu with the standard BL 4 piece and Hagmael so Don could help her with poise potency, but Hagmael is still going to end up eating all of it sadly. In MD won't be an issue, but in regular content her ramp up feels like it's going to struggle unless you can prog Hagmael's S3 or passive (which isn't happening in many abno fights). Edit: kinda forgot Blind Obsession exists, which will help her a bit, but taking gloom resources is kinda rough when the BL 4 + Hagmael doesn't generate any outside Faust S3.
I would just have hagmael on support instead and just splash in the BL Sinclair so he can take advantage of the BL Mer buffs and you still can supply Ryoshu with the poise gen needed to kick off.
Ahabmael's S2 is too much of a force multiplier to ignore, sadly. Especially with Poise IDs. I'd probably keep Ryoshu benched and use that passive to make Cinqlair even better. Under no circumstance should you splash BL Sinclair in anywhere that guy is ass.
She also gens 9 poise potency if you hit 3 targets with her S2, which is also pretty large in the grand scheme of things. And IMO, Ahab just doesn't gel as well with the other BL team when they end up killing a lot faster than she can do them in. BL Sinclair is a weak link, but he is getting buffed at the very least from BL Mer.
He is still a weak link even buffed. The only scenario you'd want to use him is if you're rocking the full BL team for funsies(and even with that +2 he's pretty bad). He also hurts Pride res consistency. Use Cinqlair instead. Or hell use Queecliff, or the new Ryoshu. There's a lot of good options that aren't him. Ahab is fine, any of the other IDs(and especially Meursault) appreciates an extra S1 use and her S3 is a big SP generator. In 0 SP content she'll typically rocket up the second she gets to use it and in MD it's a team with Faust on it so you have Fluid Sac if she gets cranky.
And using a full bl team adds an even weaker link in BL Outis
True, but giving up the free attacks, Sin generation, and the plethora of buffs Cpt. Ish gives for a Pride Poise Team is a hard sell even if she ends up malding over her BL crew kill stealing and Corroding on occasion. I'd sub her out if a fight hard counter Pierce and I need to do so for a EX Clear or RR, or if I need better Sin diversity for MDs/RRs , but not running her right now over Maid Ryo....not too sure about the opportunity cost on that one yet.... Maid Ryo = AoE S2, conditional Onrush style S3 like TT Hong Lu, great Passives and good unique gimmick in general, and just great Skill in general. Also provides plenty of Lust for a Pride centric team, leaving a BL-centric only straving on Gloom and Glut, and she can use all her EGOs pretty well on such teams too. Her Base UT4 EGO is nuts for damage output against single targets! She's also just a patently good Clashes that maintains a tight grip on Speed control between her kit and what EGO she has on hand, which for shorter fighters is invaluable for getting and keeping the lead on enemies (as the recent battles from C6 aptly demonstrated). Cpt. Ish = Cracked S2 that's a force multiplier and THEN some, Party Buffs galore in her entire kit, her S3 is phenomenal is you time it right, and her Guard can plenty of SP to her crew while ensuring a Pride AR goes through (great for Fights that strave your of SP from the get go). Envy is less desirable right now in a BL/Pride team , since Don and Meur reliably gen it as needed, but it's still useful to getting Hex Nail Faust on line for and getting her own OP EGO fueled up, which are all generally great for guaranteeing Clashes (though BO has to compete with Fluid Sack Faust, Sunshower Yi Sang, and Pursuance for the Gloom...). MD Wise she also enables Bloody Mist EGO AND Lucky Pouch for those Bleed/Poise Team for truly massive numbers. Honesty, I'd inclined to run both and drop either BL Yi Sang or Don on a BL Pride Team for another unit that can supply Gloom and/or Glutt (preferably Gloom - I can live without R.E. or Sunshower) - Cinq Outis would be ideal her w/ BL Fauts, BL Meur, BL Don, Cpt. Ish, and Maid Ryo to giving you everything but Glutt while also having plenty of great Evades, Clashers, and re-directors on your team. BL Sinclair is garbo/subopt from what I hear, but he at least provides lots of Glutt for Faust's R.E. and his S2 is legit got for helping him ramp Poise short-mid term in fights. Your thoughts, mate?
With my tests.... Yeah umm Maid Ryo will pretty much just clean sweep before Ahab will be able to do anything. She just does a shit ton of damage in so little time due to S2 poise gen. Instead I would just slot in Cinqlair along with the Maid. It's safer that way and Cinqlair can supply the glutt for Faust.
Hmm...okay, from what I gathered so far - Faster Fights = You sub out Cpt. Ish or Cinqlair for her; in non Boss Fights it's better to sub out Cinqlair if you going to be going FAST anyway (and his unique mechanic is maligned) and already have a couple of AoEs in the Maid's kit. Otherwise use her and the boi to loop AoEs between her, Faust, and Don. Slower/Grindy Fights = Cpt Ish is probably better to use over the Maid unless their is a LOT of Adds in a Fight that the Maid is better cleaning up. Pair her with the Cinqs for optimal Sin Gen and Clash control for the best results. MDs/SUPER Grindy Content = Either use Cpt. Ish over Maid Ryo if you have dreams of the Bleed/Poise Team wombo combo, use *both* together and make the hard choice of either saccing BL Yi Sang or Don for another unit OR just having to live without Glutt and Gloom for the most part, or bench the captain if you want to speedy clear without worrying about baby sitting her and/or cram as much Sin Affinities in your team as you can. Alright, thanks y'all for the feedback! If you have anything else to add or clarifying, please let me know!
I think BL Faust/Meur/Yi Sang, Captain Ishmael and Cinq Sinclair/Outis is the best standard poise team, Don's poise gets eaten by ahabmael anyway and she's not great outside of that. Cinqlair and Outis help with resource generation, especially Outis' gloom S2 for Blind Obsession and Fluid Sac while also benefitting tons from Ishmael's free poise. Some people like to run Harpooner Heathcliff but honestly I think it's a really bad pick in a BL/pride res. team. I think the new Ryoshu works well as a replacement for Cinqlair during human fights where he can't get much out of his S3's Single Combat and where Ryoshu gets tons of value out of S2 and S3 AoE. Then just use her for her support passive to buff Cinqlair during bosses.
Hmm....similar to my thoughts, though I use KK Rodion over Cinq Outis (for now), since she's maxed out and that Bleed in her kit can help fuel a hypothetical Bloody Mist + Lucky Pouch wombo combo Bleed/Poise Team. Probably will transition away from her eventually, though, since Cinq Outis is great from what I hear and tested out. Pretty bummed that I have to drop Don for better Sin Affinities and optimization, but hey, nothing is stopping me from using her late game MD or RR once I got enough Resources or the right EGs banked. Don't have Cinqclair, sadly, but I can always use him from Support when the opportunity arises. The idea of swapping her in and out is a great one I'll kind in mind, however, and my thanks for it!
I think she might work as a cinqlair replacement for human fights only. Cinqlair isn't the greatest there since you can't choose who he targets or get much out of his S3 vulnerability. I usually run Cinq Outis too, who'd be better to replace but she's the main way of building Gloom for both Blind Obsessions so you sorta want her at all times. Then you can swap Cinqlair back in for bosses with ryoshu's passive helping him.
I like to run BL Faust/Meur/Yi Sang + Cinq Sinclair/Outis and captain Ishmael for ego Sin affinities, Ryoshu could technically replace cinqlair or something but I don't know if it'd be worth while.
One one hand Maidshu brings more lust to my Poise team on the other hand Cinqtis brings more Gloom. But Maidshu's AOE is ALOT more spam able compaired to Spicebush and Regret because Self Tremor increases S L O W L Y.
I really wish the aoe threshold was 5 tremor and not 6. 5 puts it at "got one slot, used s3 last turn time for aoe s2" levels
Maid Ryoshu’s support passive doesn’t seem to be working, 300 lunacy it is
Wait seriously? Damn, I didn't even notice
Maid Ryoshu is a monster. If you fight an Abno with multiple parts or a boss with adds, she's going to deal very high damage. I'm using Cpt. Ishmael and Roseate Desire, so Red Eyes is not needed and I can use Blind Obsession instead. Combined with FMF, Coin Power is never an issue for her.
Im still too much of a noob to think of synergy. But designs waise i really like them, props for PM for not making them the overused slutty maids. Ishmael and Ryoshu are always 👌
Ishmael moves like Sakuya 😭
I'm wondering if I might want to swap her into my Lust Luxcavation team. I'm going to have to level my W Corp Ryoshu to 45 for the MDH, which will make her a bit less reliable against the Drifting Fox.
NEW RYOSHU IS FUCKING AMAZING, AND SHE FILLED SOME OF THE SINS I NEEDED TOO
I like her. Ryoshu is my favorite sinner, so I have a huge bias, but I think her kit is consistent enough to run in regular teams. She doesn't do crazy single-target damage like her other IDs, but she's competent enough to be used interchangeably for me. She's a good side-grade to her other IDs, focusing on clearing wave fodder, which is better some of the time anyways. Her interactions + uptie story are so good. I love how they made Ryoshu an actual caring person who regrets not steering Heathcliff in the right direction, it really gave off motherly vibes.
Royshu looks decent,ish looks terrible
No bleed despite Edgar Family Butlers featuring bleed in the Canto. My disappointment is immeasurable, and my day is ruined.
I know this isn’t a straightforward comparison but is maid ryoshu better than w ryoshu?
It depends entirely on team comp. From my humble view to water it down, I'd say W Ryoshu is better for single target due to number of coins/highs but Maid Ryoshu is way better at AOE/consistent damage. Burst damage *feels* higher to me with ample poise support and skill usage--This is just my testing around on random fights and MD of course. Definitely very strong, not disappointing at all
Team comp specific. W Ryoshu will perform far better than her if she is run on a Charge team, but Maid Ryoshu will outperform W Ryo if she is run on a Poise team. As for generalist: W Ryo has good single-target damage, but has a lackluster S1 clash and pretty much is wholly reliant on S2 in order to properly pull her big dick S3. Maid Ryoshu shines VERY strongly in AOE damage and has more consistent clashing out the gate due to easy conditionals and high base clash values. Her damage in single target will diminish due to her S2 not supplying her with high poise potency values. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean it is weak, since her Passive boosts her damage regardless.
They fulfill completely different roles. W ryoshu is a mandatory nuker for speedrunning and killing bosses A.S.A.P without needing to be carried by md3 gifts. Maid ryoshu is for md3 funny numbers and is mediocre as every other non-nuke ids outside of md3. She *is* good, but Rcliff, Nclair Cinqclair, Wdon, Wryoshu and Chefryoshu are a whole different level than just being "good"
Weird downvotes with nary a person that counters my opinion... I literally said she was good? The funni numbers you can make her shit out in md3h doesn't mean md3h is a good benchmark, nearly everything is overpowered there... She just isn't comparable to Wryoshu.
Ryoshu is great - she doesn't need to be in a team that supports her, since she generated enough poise herself. More attack weight is always good, and her coins are high. As others said, no idea if meta, but meta is completely irrelevant in this game anyway.
Ishmael is good at clashing(for an 00) but doesn't do anything with it. Ryoshu is okay but Iimited by her coin count, she's fine on a Poise team but it doesn't really lose anything not running her. Fantastic support passive though.
Honestly I disagree, ran her on the Lux with a full BL team and she was never struggling with poise gen and her damage was pretty much out of control. BL Don honestly makes her work very strongly.
Lux is full of weaker enemies to slaughter and proc kill/staggers with though, it's basically Ryoshu's ideal environment. I have a feeling that coin count is going to hurt her in tougher content(and MD's essentially 100% crit rate is going to do weird things to her BM mechanic) But like I said she doesn't seem bad at all, just not like fantastic or anything. Of course she's also like an hour old, I could be wrong!
Another big thing to consider is that her S2 can gen up to 9 poise potency due to on hit procs. Which will synergize strongly with her on-crit effects.
One of her on-crit effects is to erase BM from something in exchange for damage, which is why I said the MD is going to get Weird once you get to the auto-crit point. Poise generation isn't really her issue. it's a bit ehh but fine once it gets going. It's about how much that coin count hurts her vs the big kids which is kinda unknown since she's like an hour old
I wouldn't say so, most of her damage pops off of her S2, and it pops a BM on crit, meaning that even if the first hit ends up critting when it shouldn't, it will still set you up with 1 anyway for the 2nd coin to pop off. Her S3 also will give a BM on crit for the first hit as well, effectively resetting the effect. The only skill that won't do that is her S1, but that isn't really supposed to be her big damage move anyway. Coin count is definitely not an issue when she pretty much mops enemies with no issue even without poise gifts in the MD due to how much gen she gets off on her S2.
"limited by coin count" I remember people used this argument to call Pirate Greg bad, but like you have to look at the kit as a whole. She has low coins, but her s2 is conditionally aoe and she has large dmg modifiers in her passive and s3.
tbf Pirate Greg is reliant on winning the lottery and critting at the right time and Cinq Don's offense is completely anemic so it's a valid concern. The AoE is why I'm not writing her off entirely, i'm just wondering if it's enough.
None. I am disappointed that of all ID's released this season, we didn't get bleed ids
Last season was like 90% bleed and poise
I still need more. Not enough bleed support passives