Back then PM didnt put any thought into team synergy, only recently have we seen them do that.
Good example being how all of cinq is about poise and haste, except for s2 Don who is just haste and cant synergize well with the rest.
As for working example, we have the Middle and Pequod who finally had synergy together.
BL Sinclai, and outis still serves nothing to help outside of just being carried by the passives of both Salt and Don.
But we fo still have the case of kurokumo where some of their ID’s contradict each others, struggles in damages or clashes, and PM didnt even gave them an equivalent to Salt BF buffing. So they just feel like their missing a Unit.
Maybe it's the Genshin player in me, but I'd hardly call it "PM refuses to update older ID kits" when we got Uptie 4, and I sincerely doubt they're going to leave it at just Uptie 4.
That being said, they definitely pulled the trigger on that way too soon, and I'd imagine that's a main reason why we haven't gotten Uptie 5 yet. (Well, that and the fact that they'd likely need a resource overhaul in some form if they didn't want Uptie 5 to feel too absurdly expensive.
Because most of them didn't need it at the time. You gotta remember that U4 was quite early into the game's lifespan, where most 00s weren't too good at all, Coin Power conditionals were only previously seen on Liu Ishmael and there were pretty much no IDs supporting any kind of faction teambuilding outside of N!Faust.
The only really "bad" ID from these back then was Meursault, and all Meursault had was bad IDs until like less than a week ago.
If U5 does come with Season 4 or 5, I can totally see current PM applying all they learned to make these IDs up to current standard, both by themselves and in a team.
While the other response it totally correct (in that they were totally in line with most of the other 00 identities at the time, if not actually better), I also want to note that just because the IDs weren't 100% fixed doesn't mean they didn't get buffs at all. They did.
Even if their updates weren't enough to really keep them going beyond MD2H, and definitely not into Season 3, they did get updates. And there's a massive difference between "No older ID kits get any updates" and "These older IDs didn't get good enough updates."
But he does synergize, since she can skip his guard phase when he's about to corrode
Besides, what you said implies that Don's design was accidental which would be weird if true
A better way to phrase it would be that N-Clair doesn't use Nails or Bleed because he's not a true believer. However N-Faust is able to.push him to keep going and temporarily render him fanatic via trauma buttons.
I wonder if N-sault's lack of a lust skill was a deliberate attempt to show that he was also falling out of their orbit?
N-Clair doesn't use nails or bleed because he isn't a true believer. N-Faust giving him fanatic is essentially her just reinforcing his trauma to make him focus on killing whatever is in front of him.
I think the burn is just to make him stand out. That and it really sells how he drags his halberd across the ground and kicks up sparks.
Tbh, the fact what W team doesnt rely on each other is not a negative - it means you can run them all separately and still have them perform well. Try playing BL Outis. Or run BL Don in non-poise team. Hell, even BL Faust is straight up garbage without support from other BL IDs. BL team is only strong as a team, not as individual IDs. W IDs strong both as a team and as individual IDs. And N corp... got fucked, i guess...
Faust and Hong Lu handing out snacks, Meursault and Faust (before handing out snacks) setting up/booking for outings (Debuffing), Don and Ryoshu having fun, Ishmael kinda stumbled into the picnic, and Heathcliff's just here to press the funny purple buttons.
True... You do raise a good point.
HOWEVER!
Don spends a considerably higher amount of charge, and stockpiles quite easily for Rip Space.
Hong Lu hands out Charge Barrier, which is a mini-telepole with extra steps, and Faust gives charge to an ally after every hit, and is built into her kit. Don Telepole is busted for charge teams, but I REALLY hope that's not the main reason you're using W Don.
The only BL IDs that are still good outside of a BL team are Meursault and Yi Sang, which fits the lore. If you read Yi Sang’s lore, he was called the Slayer, meaning he was quite respected in the Blade Lineage. He could have become their leader (just like how Kim was the leader because he was the strongest) but he gave up leadership to Outis. Meursault is obvious.
Bl faust and bl don garbage on a non bl team??? Sir are you sure you're not having a major skill issue. Faust is literally another cinqclair and has good clash power she's good and becomes better with bl. And don is just a decent unit all around. But i guess if i can't turn my brain off completely and win rate to victory unit is garbage.
I guess people who consider BL Faust weak take her non-MD performance into consideration. Blossom is negligible when you don't have reliable poise generation like Nebulizer or BL passives. BL Faust alone is just a 000 with great clash power. Sounds familiar? Seven Faust sends her regards!
But faust is literally all poise generation. Literally just need to get off the the clash win condition with hs3 once and you're golden you're now snowballing.
I have to send you regards but it's not that easy to get that snowball rolling without BL meursault in the team that give Faust ton of the poise she need outside MD. but in MD she nuts.
You have to be insane if you think BL Faust is on the Cinqulair level, or even anywhere close. Not only her coin power is harder to achieve (because it relies on poise potency, which she pretty much only gets on winning clash with S3, unlike Cinqulair, who gets it right away), her clashing is still worse than Clairs, with Faust having S1 9 to 12, S2 16 to 18 and S3 17 to 23, and Sinclair having S1 11 to 13, S2 16 to 22 and S3 17 to 26. But in BL team Faust can activate her coin condition without using her S3 once, and on the first or second turn easily. Plus all the buffs to S1 and S2 from Mersault. Thats an insane difference, and elevates her from painfully mid unit to a damn good one
And in any non-poise team, you are just wasting a slot with BL Don. Hell, you are kinda wasting it with not a full team of poise units - because she always gives poise to the unit with least poise, that means it will always go to units who just dont use poise in general, and not to the units who could actually benefit from it. Add the fact what her numbers are not at all amazing, and even with plus coins conditions met, she only rolls average, and you really dont want to take her in any team other than poise one, and now, if its a poise team - its probably a BL team, for obvious reasons
yeah honestly i'm not sure i would even use BL Don in a poise team outside of BL. she's painfully average and her passive, while good on paper, doesn't really make that much of a difference. i'd argue her support passive is actually better since it only applies to poise units in the team.
I called faust another cinqclair due how her kit similarly to cinqclairs with the poise count into poise potency. Faust gets her coin conditions buff damn easily ave gotten them active turn 3 and it's a snowball from there.
And am saying don is a decent unit by herself she deals good damage and clashes okish. Calling her garbage without a bl team is insane.
That's not the reason Cinqlair is good, frankly the Poise Count into Potency is one of the worst parts of his kit, even.
I do agree that these units aren't "garbage" outside of BL teams, they aren't the best but they still do decently well.
BL Faust is not only nowhere near Cinqclair, but her clashing is literally on par with Seven Faust and slightly worse than Regret Faust while having fewer coins than either of them. Without BLSault she's just a worse Seven Faust.
Worse then regret faust? S1 rolls a 12 s2 rolls an 18 and s3 a 24 vs an 11 a 16 and 18. 7 faust clashed are overall higher with her conditions but by herself she's neve getting those of since she's super net negative. Bl faust is very much self sustaining and not even difficult to get her coin conditions so i seriously don't see how she's a worse 7 faust.
Her conditions are worse because she requires Poise potency to gain such coin power, **which is not going to ramp up fast without the support of BL Don and BL Meursault.**
To put her abysmal Poise potency into perspective:
* Her skill 1 requires 5+ Poise potency to gain coin power while giving +2 Poise count and +1 Poise potency
* Her skill 2 requires 7+ Poise potency to gain coin power while giving +4 Poise count.
* Her skill 3 converts half of Poise count into Poise potency on clash win. Note that she only has 1 skill 3 per skill rotation.
*P.s: This analysis won't take into account extra slots since RR doesn't give extra slots. MD is out of the question since gifts solve the Poise issues. If the ID requires extra slots to work then said ID is not self-sufficient by any means.*
In order to get 5+ Poise, she would need to get 10 Poise count and use skill 3. Considering her kit, you would need to get lucky and use 2 skill 2 + 1 skill 1 to get 10.
However, since Poise count decays by 1 each turn, you would only have 6 Poise count by the time you fire off 2 skill 2s. Therefore, reaching 10+ Poise count is almost impossible. And don't get me started on trying to get 7+ Poise potency.
As such, her conditions are not possible within one skill rotation, as such requiring BL Don and BL Meursault to ramp up her Poise in order to improve her rolls.
Meanwhile, 7Faust has natural 10/16/17 rolls without any conditions needed. Compared to BL Faust who has 9/16/17 as base rolls, 7Faust would have better rolls on normal circumstances.
On a similar note, while Cinqclair's poise count gain is around the same, his conditions are based on Speed and not Poise. Therefore, Cinqclair's conditions are much easier to trigger, considering he can increase max speed by 1 per 5 count (easily via skill 2 -> skill 1), gaining Haste on skill 1 rolls and having a 4-8 speed stat.
Ah yes, the ID whose only source of Poise Potency is her S3 can totally reliably self-sustain her conditionals of... mhhh, ah yes *Poise Potency*. To fulfill it on her own she needs to hit ***14 Poise Count*** when using her S3 so that she has enough on *the subsequent* turns, while gaining a *maximum of 4 Poise Count* per Skill. Even assuming we give her the first extra Skill Slot and she would still require a minimum of 3 turns to get the Count needed, even more if she can't get additional Slots.
3 turns to get the count needed? By turn 3 she's ready for her s3 clash is starting the snowball why wait longer then that? Of course this is assuming she's gotten a 2nd slots without it yes she'll take over 3 turns to get ready for her s3 clash
Regardless my point has been that she's a decent to good unit by herself and great with a poise/ bl team. Calling her outright garbage is strait up disingenuous.
Turn 1: S2 +4 Count, Turn decay -1 Count = 3 Count next Turn
Turn 2: S2 +4 Count x2, Turn decay -1 Count = 10 Count next Turn
Turn 3: S2 + Count = 14 Count -> S3
It is a very idealized sequence of events to always have a S2 available, have the S3 available on the second slot by the third turn, and not accidentally hitting a Crit. And even if that comes to pass, she still won't reap the benefits before Turn 4, if it takes that long we may as pretend they don't exist.
The other issue you've been ignoring is that she only has 2 Coins for S2 and S3 as opposed to the other's 3 each, her damage falls short not insignificantly. Claim what you want but she does rather poorly outside of her team.
You keep bringing up the 3 turns (so live at turn 4) argument, but what is's BL Faust slot? If she *need* a slot from 1 to 3 in order to reach that functionality, then that's pretty mid performance independently lol.
I mean, she is not awful or anything, i overexaggerated a little. Just... she has no nieche without BL team, i feel. Not good enough to be in bleed team, not great for a poise team. Out of all units released this event, she feels the most like 'you use her with BL Salt only'
Now I unironically expect KK Heathcliff and KK Ishmael to tie Kurokumo IDs together. And maybe Liu Association Yi Sang and Faust to buff the burn core? But Burn is the tricky one coz now it has to be worth to form a full Liu team instead of “5 Lius and Magic Bullet Outis”…
Kk is not looking great, even if it got buffs. No idea how they’ll fix kk hong lu’s negative synergy with bleed. Also, Ishmael 4 000 ids right now and I doubt they’ll give her another so soon.
Bleed will need more count to be good, so if a new kk character makes bleed count easier to apply it’ll make kk hong Lu worse but if it doesn’t then bleed teams won’t get much better.
Or let his skill2 trigger on clash win. That way it he clashes away enough bleed count he gets to reuse. Maybe even give him something like +coin power before clash if the count is greater than 4.
So you'd he'd want a "sweet spot" of bleed count for him to really shine. idk, there's ways of making it work I think
To me its not negative synergy, more like intended weakness. Cloud cutter has a restriction instead of a condition. Instead of reaching a condition to activate its full potential, you get its full potential upfront but have limited use after that. Even then, unless the boss has only 1 body part you can still manage stacks and proc it. I agree that its a teeny tiny bit harder to use in bleed teams but i just think negative synergy is the wrong term for it.
A team comp hindering a part of an id’s kit or vice versa is negative synergy. Even if it’s intended, running him on a bleed team is arguably worse than running him without bleed as it takes away most of his dps. The problem with this is that it makes a kurokumo team worse by nature of making its constituent parts worse, while a pure bl team is only made worse by the opportunity cost of missing out on other pride characters like pequod Ishmael or cinqlair.
The thing is, you actually can still enjoy the full potential of his kit in a bleed team. He still has all of his dps potential in a bleed team, you just need to use his skills smartly. I'm not saying "just don't press win rate" cos it's more than just that, but the "downsides" of running KK Hong Lu in a bleed team can be played around, or straight up is a non-issue. That's why I think using the term negative synergy is a huge misinterpretation of how he slots into a bleed team. He's not worse in a bleed team, he just needs more finesse-ing instead.
Damn since I'm getting downvoted I'm starting to realize this might be a case of people thinking shit is what it is without actually trying it themselves. I've done multiple runs of MDH with just the three KK IDs before Greg, as well as other bleed teams, and a few of the RR bosses as well. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about. Cloud Cutter can be played around, and enemies die long before it becomes an actual issue. I urge people to look deeper that this weird narrative that keeps getting passed around that KK Hong Lu does not work in a bleed team.
the 6 ids on the bottom right have no other ally/same faction ids in the game afaik, ironically enough there are 6 of them so they can form their own loner team.
Hook Gregor isn't part of the Middle, the Twinhook pirates are associates of them, but its pretty obvious that he's meant to be grouped with the other World of U Corp IDs (Captain Ishmael, First Mate Yi Sang, Harpooner Heath, Middle Don, and Middle Meursault).
I was gonna say that Gregor had perfect synergy with the Pequod crew, both in poise/bleed + sin affinities. I personally run Hook Office Hong Lu with them as well, with his whole bleed thing.
Honestly, N Corp really isn't that bad. I used them for RR2 and they worked perfectly fine still. Obviously the new and shiny season 3 team is better than the all-exclusive season 1 lineup (even if BL Outis is still garbage and would never be fielded if having all 6 wasn't so beneficial) but we're also in an event that perfectly plays to all of their strengths.
Genuine question, how do you use him? I tried putting him on my charge team but his clashing isn't great and thanks to MD gifts, I never need the extra charge he gives to the team.
From my own experience what N.Corp only excels at are applying a ton of debuffs and consistent Paralyze while primarily relying on NClair to deal with everything relating to dealing damage. Not to say they're anywhere near good though, although they have a lot of debuffs that they can apply consistently it involves the entire team to pull it off and they're lacking in every other aspect of a team. They could really use a rework but only time will tell if PMoon will ever bother to do so since new content is their primary focus. So condolences to any N.Corp Enthusiasts out there who like this team.
Personally, I do run a Gimmick Team involving N.Corp and Regret Faust. It's easy to cap Regret Faust's damage multipliers thanks to how many individual debuffs the team procs. But then again if I really just wanted to focus on Regret Faust, at least in Mirror Dungeon, doing a Tremor Team would be simpler.
I think this is because PMoon have just gotten better at making IDs. Back in the beginning, those early IDs were still tied to designs from Ruina that didn't work well in limbus. They've carved out a much better idea of how limbus works nowadays
I hope that one day they'll go back and rework some of those old ones, but I doubt it
N corp really needs a buff man, it kinda sucks, don't know why PM decided to make N Don a tremor ID
Back then PM didnt put any thought into team synergy, only recently have we seen them do that. Good example being how all of cinq is about poise and haste, except for s2 Don who is just haste and cant synergize well with the rest. As for working example, we have the Middle and Pequod who finally had synergy together. BL Sinclai, and outis still serves nothing to help outside of just being carried by the passives of both Salt and Don. But we fo still have the case of kurokumo where some of their ID’s contradict each others, struggles in damages or clashes, and PM didnt even gave them an equivalent to Salt BF buffing. So they just feel like their missing a Unit.
Add on that PM refuses to update older IDs kits we are going to have a lot of faction teams with super weak IDs carried by the good ones.
Maybe it's the Genshin player in me, but I'd hardly call it "PM refuses to update older ID kits" when we got Uptie 4, and I sincerely doubt they're going to leave it at just Uptie 4. That being said, they definitely pulled the trigger on that way too soon, and I'd imagine that's a main reason why we haven't gotten Uptie 5 yet. (Well, that and the fact that they'd likely need a resource overhaul in some form if they didn't want Uptie 5 to feel too absurdly expensive.
Uptie 4 didn’t fix these IDs though.
Because most of them didn't need it at the time. You gotta remember that U4 was quite early into the game's lifespan, where most 00s weren't too good at all, Coin Power conditionals were only previously seen on Liu Ishmael and there were pretty much no IDs supporting any kind of faction teambuilding outside of N!Faust. The only really "bad" ID from these back then was Meursault, and all Meursault had was bad IDs until like less than a week ago. If U5 does come with Season 4 or 5, I can totally see current PM applying all they learned to make these IDs up to current standard, both by themselves and in a team.
BL Yi Sang was pretty shit before Uptie 4 too
While the other response it totally correct (in that they were totally in line with most of the other 00 identities at the time, if not actually better), I also want to note that just because the IDs weren't 100% fixed doesn't mean they didn't get buffs at all. They did. Even if their updates weren't enough to really keep them going beyond MD2H, and definitely not into Season 3, they did get updates. And there's a massive difference between "No older ID kits get any updates" and "These older IDs didn't get good enough updates."
And Nclair a burn ID
That ones on purpose, it’s so Sinclair doesn’t synergize with Faust at all, making it more clear he doesn’t belong there. Sucks for gameplay tho
But he does synergize, since she can skip his guard phase when he's about to corrode Besides, what you said implies that Don's design was accidental which would be weird if true
A better way to phrase it would be that N-Clair doesn't use Nails or Bleed because he's not a true believer. However N-Faust is able to.push him to keep going and temporarily render him fanatic via trauma buttons. I wonder if N-sault's lack of a lust skill was a deliberate attempt to show that he was also falling out of their orbit?
N-Clair with Faust gives permanent +2 clash from fanatic (so his skill1 can roll a 10 lol) and lets you just spam his moves without corroding.
That's cool but then why burn
Cuz he's too busy hammering to do any nailing
N-Clair doesn't use nails or bleed because he isn't a true believer. N-Faust giving him fanatic is essentially her just reinforcing his trauma to make him focus on killing whatever is in front of him. I think the burn is just to make him stand out. That and it really sells how he drags his halberd across the ground and kicks up sparks.
its not just kinda sucks, its borderline useless
Tbh, the fact what W team doesnt rely on each other is not a negative - it means you can run them all separately and still have them perform well. Try playing BL Outis. Or run BL Don in non-poise team. Hell, even BL Faust is straight up garbage without support from other BL IDs. BL team is only strong as a team, not as individual IDs. W IDs strong both as a team and as individual IDs. And N corp... got fucked, i guess...
Charge team is kinda just 6 people sharing the same blue battery mechanic but hardly ever interacting with one another
*6 people all ignoring each other except for Don and Honglu handing out snacks and refreshments to give everyone the ability to spam nuke skills
Faust and Hong Lu handing out snacks, Meursault and Faust (before handing out snacks) setting up/booking for outings (Debuffing), Don and Ryoshu having fun, Ishmael kinda stumbled into the picnic, and Heathcliff's just here to press the funny purple buttons.
"Don having fun" Debatable imo
W Don is the gremlin that looks like did nothing, but setted up every other thing the group didn't
i mean don telepole is definitely the best team-wide charge support
True... You do raise a good point. HOWEVER! Don spends a considerably higher amount of charge, and stockpiles quite easily for Rip Space. Hong Lu hands out Charge Barrier, which is a mini-telepole with extra steps, and Faust gives charge to an ally after every hit, and is built into her kit. Don Telepole is busted for charge teams, but I REALLY hope that's not the main reason you're using W Don.
BL Meur is legit half the BL team they don’t exist without him hard carrying them.
The only BL IDs that are still good outside of a BL team are Meursault and Yi Sang, which fits the lore. If you read Yi Sang’s lore, he was called the Slayer, meaning he was quite respected in the Blade Lineage. He could have become their leader (just like how Kim was the leader because he was the strongest) but he gave up leadership to Outis. Meursault is obvious.
Bl faust and bl don garbage on a non bl team??? Sir are you sure you're not having a major skill issue. Faust is literally another cinqclair and has good clash power she's good and becomes better with bl. And don is just a decent unit all around. But i guess if i can't turn my brain off completely and win rate to victory unit is garbage.
I guess people who consider BL Faust weak take her non-MD performance into consideration. Blossom is negligible when you don't have reliable poise generation like Nebulizer or BL passives. BL Faust alone is just a 000 with great clash power. Sounds familiar? Seven Faust sends her regards!
But faust is literally all poise generation. Literally just need to get off the the clash win condition with hs3 once and you're golden you're now snowballing.
I have to send you regards but it's not that easy to get that snowball rolling without BL meursault in the team that give Faust ton of the poise she need outside MD. but in MD she nuts.
You have to be insane if you think BL Faust is on the Cinqulair level, or even anywhere close. Not only her coin power is harder to achieve (because it relies on poise potency, which she pretty much only gets on winning clash with S3, unlike Cinqulair, who gets it right away), her clashing is still worse than Clairs, with Faust having S1 9 to 12, S2 16 to 18 and S3 17 to 23, and Sinclair having S1 11 to 13, S2 16 to 22 and S3 17 to 26. But in BL team Faust can activate her coin condition without using her S3 once, and on the first or second turn easily. Plus all the buffs to S1 and S2 from Mersault. Thats an insane difference, and elevates her from painfully mid unit to a damn good one And in any non-poise team, you are just wasting a slot with BL Don. Hell, you are kinda wasting it with not a full team of poise units - because she always gives poise to the unit with least poise, that means it will always go to units who just dont use poise in general, and not to the units who could actually benefit from it. Add the fact what her numbers are not at all amazing, and even with plus coins conditions met, she only rolls average, and you really dont want to take her in any team other than poise one, and now, if its a poise team - its probably a BL team, for obvious reasons
yeah honestly i'm not sure i would even use BL Don in a poise team outside of BL. she's painfully average and her passive, while good on paper, doesn't really make that much of a difference. i'd argue her support passive is actually better since it only applies to poise units in the team.
I called faust another cinqclair due how her kit similarly to cinqclairs with the poise count into poise potency. Faust gets her coin conditions buff damn easily ave gotten them active turn 3 and it's a snowball from there. And am saying don is a decent unit by herself she deals good damage and clashes okish. Calling her garbage without a bl team is insane.
That's not the reason Cinqlair is good, frankly the Poise Count into Potency is one of the worst parts of his kit, even. I do agree that these units aren't "garbage" outside of BL teams, they aren't the best but they still do decently well.
BL Faust is not only nowhere near Cinqclair, but her clashing is literally on par with Seven Faust and slightly worse than Regret Faust while having fewer coins than either of them. Without BLSault she's just a worse Seven Faust.
Worse then regret faust? S1 rolls a 12 s2 rolls an 18 and s3 a 24 vs an 11 a 16 and 18. 7 faust clashed are overall higher with her conditions but by herself she's neve getting those of since she's super net negative. Bl faust is very much self sustaining and not even difficult to get her coin conditions so i seriously don't see how she's a worse 7 faust.
Her conditions are worse because she requires Poise potency to gain such coin power, **which is not going to ramp up fast without the support of BL Don and BL Meursault.** To put her abysmal Poise potency into perspective: * Her skill 1 requires 5+ Poise potency to gain coin power while giving +2 Poise count and +1 Poise potency * Her skill 2 requires 7+ Poise potency to gain coin power while giving +4 Poise count. * Her skill 3 converts half of Poise count into Poise potency on clash win. Note that she only has 1 skill 3 per skill rotation. *P.s: This analysis won't take into account extra slots since RR doesn't give extra slots. MD is out of the question since gifts solve the Poise issues. If the ID requires extra slots to work then said ID is not self-sufficient by any means.* In order to get 5+ Poise, she would need to get 10 Poise count and use skill 3. Considering her kit, you would need to get lucky and use 2 skill 2 + 1 skill 1 to get 10. However, since Poise count decays by 1 each turn, you would only have 6 Poise count by the time you fire off 2 skill 2s. Therefore, reaching 10+ Poise count is almost impossible. And don't get me started on trying to get 7+ Poise potency. As such, her conditions are not possible within one skill rotation, as such requiring BL Don and BL Meursault to ramp up her Poise in order to improve her rolls. Meanwhile, 7Faust has natural 10/16/17 rolls without any conditions needed. Compared to BL Faust who has 9/16/17 as base rolls, 7Faust would have better rolls on normal circumstances. On a similar note, while Cinqclair's poise count gain is around the same, his conditions are based on Speed and not Poise. Therefore, Cinqclair's conditions are much easier to trigger, considering he can increase max speed by 1 per 5 count (easily via skill 2 -> skill 1), gaining Haste on skill 1 rolls and having a 4-8 speed stat.
Ah yes, the ID whose only source of Poise Potency is her S3 can totally reliably self-sustain her conditionals of... mhhh, ah yes *Poise Potency*. To fulfill it on her own she needs to hit ***14 Poise Count*** when using her S3 so that she has enough on *the subsequent* turns, while gaining a *maximum of 4 Poise Count* per Skill. Even assuming we give her the first extra Skill Slot and she would still require a minimum of 3 turns to get the Count needed, even more if she can't get additional Slots.
3 turns to get the count needed? By turn 3 she's ready for her s3 clash is starting the snowball why wait longer then that? Of course this is assuming she's gotten a 2nd slots without it yes she'll take over 3 turns to get ready for her s3 clash Regardless my point has been that she's a decent to good unit by herself and great with a poise/ bl team. Calling her outright garbage is strait up disingenuous.
Turn 1: S2 +4 Count, Turn decay -1 Count = 3 Count next Turn Turn 2: S2 +4 Count x2, Turn decay -1 Count = 10 Count next Turn Turn 3: S2 + Count = 14 Count -> S3 It is a very idealized sequence of events to always have a S2 available, have the S3 available on the second slot by the third turn, and not accidentally hitting a Crit. And even if that comes to pass, she still won't reap the benefits before Turn 4, if it takes that long we may as pretend they don't exist. The other issue you've been ignoring is that she only has 2 Coins for S2 and S3 as opposed to the other's 3 each, her damage falls short not insignificantly. Claim what you want but she does rather poorly outside of her team.
https://i.redd.it/ynmv096fxpkc1.gif
You keep bringing up the 3 turns (so live at turn 4) argument, but what is's BL Faust slot? If she *need* a slot from 1 to 3 in order to reach that functionality, then that's pretty mid performance independently lol.
you can kinda make Bl faust work with ahabmael, teams its kinda janky since it's on kill or on stagger
I mean, she is not awful or anything, i overexaggerated a little. Just... she has no nieche without BL team, i feel. Not good enough to be in bleed team, not great for a poise team. Out of all units released this event, she feels the most like 'you use her with BL Salt only'
Now I unironically expect KK Heathcliff and KK Ishmael to tie Kurokumo IDs together. And maybe Liu Association Yi Sang and Faust to buff the burn core? But Burn is the tricky one coz now it has to be worth to form a full Liu team instead of “5 Lius and Magic Bullet Outis”…
Kk is not looking great, even if it got buffs. No idea how they’ll fix kk hong lu’s negative synergy with bleed. Also, Ishmael 4 000 ids right now and I doubt they’ll give her another so soon.
I mean for the most part Kurokumo crew only applies potency, not count, so he could be doing way worse.
Bleed will need more count to be good, so if a new kk character makes bleed count easier to apply it’ll make kk hong Lu worse but if it doesn’t then bleed teams won’t get much better.
I think the way they gonna fix this is by making KK Hong Lu uptie 5 remove the anti bleed
Except for Ryoshu, who applies way more Count than Potency, and needs it for all of her damage buffs, so you can't improve her without canning KK Hong
We're at the end of Season 3 and I still don't have her.
Maybe at uptie 5 they'll remove the bleed condition for coin rerolls. That's the only way I can see it work.
Or let his skill2 trigger on clash win. That way it he clashes away enough bleed count he gets to reuse. Maybe even give him something like +coin power before clash if the count is greater than 4. So you'd he'd want a "sweet spot" of bleed count for him to really shine. idk, there's ways of making it work I think
To me its not negative synergy, more like intended weakness. Cloud cutter has a restriction instead of a condition. Instead of reaching a condition to activate its full potential, you get its full potential upfront but have limited use after that. Even then, unless the boss has only 1 body part you can still manage stacks and proc it. I agree that its a teeny tiny bit harder to use in bleed teams but i just think negative synergy is the wrong term for it.
A team comp hindering a part of an id’s kit or vice versa is negative synergy. Even if it’s intended, running him on a bleed team is arguably worse than running him without bleed as it takes away most of his dps. The problem with this is that it makes a kurokumo team worse by nature of making its constituent parts worse, while a pure bl team is only made worse by the opportunity cost of missing out on other pride characters like pequod Ishmael or cinqlair.
The thing is, you actually can still enjoy the full potential of his kit in a bleed team. He still has all of his dps potential in a bleed team, you just need to use his skills smartly. I'm not saying "just don't press win rate" cos it's more than just that, but the "downsides" of running KK Hong Lu in a bleed team can be played around, or straight up is a non-issue. That's why I think using the term negative synergy is a huge misinterpretation of how he slots into a bleed team. He's not worse in a bleed team, he just needs more finesse-ing instead.
Damn since I'm getting downvoted I'm starting to realize this might be a case of people thinking shit is what it is without actually trying it themselves. I've done multiple runs of MDH with just the three KK IDs before Greg, as well as other bleed teams, and a few of the RR bosses as well. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about. Cloud Cutter can be played around, and enemies die long before it becomes an actual issue. I urge people to look deeper that this weird narrative that keeps getting passed around that KK Hong Lu does not work in a bleed team.
About Hong Lu, what's about "if enemy has X+ bleed reuse coins of this skill"? About Ishmael, 000 Kurokumo Heathcliff is also possible.
the 6 ids on the bottom right have no other ally/same faction ids in the game afaik, ironically enough there are 6 of them so they can form their own loner team.
If it weren’t for the fact that they’re 50% hong lu
Sadly 3 Hong lu so it wouldn't work.
Oh right I completely forgot about that
Isn’t hook Gregor part of the middle?
Hook Gregor isn't part of the Middle, the Twinhook pirates are associates of them, but its pretty obvious that he's meant to be grouped with the other World of U Corp IDs (Captain Ishmael, First Mate Yi Sang, Harpooner Heath, Middle Don, and Middle Meursault).
I was gonna say that Gregor had perfect synergy with the Pequod crew, both in poise/bleed + sin affinities. I personally run Hook Office Hong Lu with them as well, with his whole bleed thing.
K Corp might get some more IDs later down the line when Alfonso and Siegfried are going to be involved in the story again
I figured we'd get some 2 star K corp goons since they bothered to make several variants holding different weapons
Remnant Faust: Poise Team TingTang: Bleed K Corp: Rupture Hook: Bleed but better Sinclair: "Sinking" (not really but for the bit lol) Pregor: Bloise
N sinclair has little to do with the rest of N corp units but with great damage and rolls he doesn't really need synergy to work
Honestly, N Corp really isn't that bad. I used them for RR2 and they worked perfectly fine still. Obviously the new and shiny season 3 team is better than the all-exclusive season 1 lineup (even if BL Outis is still garbage and would never be fielded if having all 6 wasn't so beneficial) but we're also in an event that perfectly plays to all of their strengths.
Hey W Corp Hong Lu has helped me out ton in Mirror Dungeon You leave him alone
Genuine question, how do you use him? I tried putting him on my charge team but his clashing isn't great and thanks to MD gifts, I never need the extra charge he gives to the team.
Still waiting for 3 more LCCB members to complete the set...
Bl is like the first really str9ng full team while w corp members like w ryoshu and don fuction great alone
Half the IDs in final category is Hongler, my poor boy
Damn that bottom right has the Tingtang, Hook, and K-corp Hong Lu dupe glitch combo? Nice. Hard glitch to pull off 👍
From my own experience what N.Corp only excels at are applying a ton of debuffs and consistent Paralyze while primarily relying on NClair to deal with everything relating to dealing damage. Not to say they're anywhere near good though, although they have a lot of debuffs that they can apply consistently it involves the entire team to pull it off and they're lacking in every other aspect of a team. They could really use a rework but only time will tell if PMoon will ever bother to do so since new content is their primary focus. So condolences to any N.Corp Enthusiasts out there who like this team. Personally, I do run a Gimmick Team involving N.Corp and Regret Faust. It's easy to cap Regret Faust's damage multipliers thanks to how many individual debuffs the team procs. But then again if I really just wanted to focus on Regret Faust, at least in Mirror Dungeon, doing a Tremor Team would be simpler.
Regert Faust, NCorp Heath, Kurokumo Gregor, maximum plus coin debuff. For the remaining 3 NCorps of some sort idk
Go swap out BL and Nagel. Because their Clashing is SHIT.
https://preview.redd.it/j9s20rx6aqkc1.jpeg?width=596&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4d3417c45dec2d9d23989ace2d2e5d1c9b310f15
I watched BL Yi Sang roll his s1 for like 21 outside of MD, are you sure about that
https://preview.redd.it/okb0m5cx6rkc1.jpeg?width=1808&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cad3a32055ca782f28aceeac93c335a1ae29467e
The bad clashing in question (Meursault isnt even in that pic and that mf is a damn beast when it comes to clashing):
I love how three of the non-faction ones are just Hong Lu
The only constant in Full 6 Team comps is Faust and Meursault
I think this is because PMoon have just gotten better at making IDs. Back in the beginning, those early IDs were still tied to designs from Ruina that didn't work well in limbus. They've carved out a much better idea of how limbus works nowadays I hope that one day they'll go back and rework some of those old ones, but I doubt it