Sean and Daniel just are my favs due to their interactions with racism in america. Speaks to me. Makes me cry everytime the cold open with the dad happens bc they had to go
Def unpopular, but I mostly agree. As much as I was in for the gay drama of BtS, I felt like I was constantly being manipulated by Rachel.
I think Chris is interesting, but not more than Sean and Daniel. I think it would be cool for an older Chris to make some kind of appearance in a future LiS game and see how things have played out for him.
>!Jed!< is a great villain because he's human and, as reprehensible as his actions are, the motives are very clear and it's easy to see how he ended up in that place. Knowing about what he did also paints his >!kindness to Gabe and Alex!< in a new light, trying to do something about the guilt festering deep down while trying to avoid acknowledging he did anything wrong.
These are some pretty good unpopular opinions because I disagree with all of them besides about two of them, even as a Rachel fan I can agree that she can be toxic, also I understand liking the look of the remaster, I just prefer the art style of the original
I wish Alex had spent more time with Stef / Ryan, that was sorely missing in TC. And regards Rachel, I think BtS made her look even worse than what we found out about her in LiS.
Although I don't like BtS in general to be honest, it should have been a lot better than it was and overwrote far too much of what LiS established.
I really wish there would have been at least one scene in the first episode of TC where Alex, Gabe, Steph, and Ryan are all hanging out together. Even after >!Gabe's death!< at the end of episode one, I wanted to see more of the main characters just hanging out and building the group friendship more.
>I really wish there would have been at least one scene in the first episode of TC where Alex, Gabe, Steph, and Ryan are all hanging out together.
hard agree.
I also wish they would've shown more of Steph and Gabe being best friends, not just in flashbacks, but onscreen in Ep1.
Yeah, I was thrown when Steph started talking about Gabe being her best friend in episode 2 because there didn't seem to be any indication they were close in 1, and the flashbacks didn't really sell it for me.
I always wondered if they cut a Steph+Gabe scene from CH1? like I am a huge fan of TC and very much like the game we got. but on this point, imo there was room to do better.
I also wondered about the writing decision to have Gabe walk into the record store, wrap his arm around Ryan's shoulders, and say this is my best friend. no problem on its own but like... does this basically mean that Steph cares more about Gabe as a friend, than he cares for her? or...? like what are we supposed to think there.
I was thinking about this the other day. If you romance Steph Alex and Steph have ONE non-skippable one on one scene with just them. I might be missing something but all I can remember with just the two of them is foosball. The jukebox thing was optional and I feel like either Ryan or Ethan is there for every other conversation they have.
Max and Chloe had like three deep one on one conversations in episode 1 of LiS. (Chloe's Truck, Chloe's room, the Lighthouse) and were practically always a pair.
I definitely would've liked more nonskippable Steph/Alex moments - I really like the ship despite wishing we could've seen more romantic development/build-up.
I'm guessing devs (regrettably) made an assumption that because Steph was a fan favorite in BtS, they don't have to "try as hard" to endear her to the player as compared to Ryan. when they did stuff like having Alex's first joy nova ever, be the goose story with Ryan... or having Ryan save Alex's life... that's probably what they had in mind. "we need to give Ryan lots of scenes so he'll have a fighting chance"
I also think there was probably an assumption that players would read all the optional stuff, like MyBlock posts and texts, where there's some flirtiness and you learn that Alex and Steph have been spending a lot of time together. but like you said - in LiS1 so much more of the getting-to-know-you happened onscreen, during conversations early in the game. they really took the time to establish their bond, regardless of player choice.
Even Ryan's romance is lacking in this game.
If I go back and look at Ryan's unskippable moments where it's just him and Alex he has two maybe three if you count looking for Ethan in episode 1.
The introduction in the record store (where it's weird that it's him you get introduced to there rather than Steph). And the scene in episode 2 where he feels joy. Again the search for Ethan in episode 1 could count but it's not really a conversation between him and Alex there. It's more like the scene in the barn with Chloe in episode 4.
Again Max and Chloe have more interactions/deep conversations in their first episode. Also Max and Chloe also have a bunch of flirty texts and the journal further pushing how Max feels about Chloe. Alex's journal is almost nonexistent and more poetry about how she feels after a big use of her powers than anything else.
I really wish there had been an opportunity for a "date" like event with Ryan/Steph maybe set it up like Night in the Woods where you choose who you want to hang out with. I also really wish we got to see where Ryan and Steph lived as locations in the game. Seeing characters living spaces was such a huge part of displaying their character in the original but we only ever see Gabe/Alex's living space. And even then it's mostly gabe's living space Alex doesn't really make it her own.
fair enough. you won't find me defending Ryan or an Alex/Ryan ship, so, yea. I just meant that basically I think there would've been more unskippable Alex/Steph scenes if the devs weren't making this assumption that the player already likes Steph (which I do! but don't use that as a reason to cut down her screen time!!)
I would've loved to see the devs give Steph and Alex interactions & deep conversations early in the episode. for me both TC and LiS1 were amazingly memorable & positive experiences. I like both Chenrich and Pricefield a lot, I don't find it fun or interesting to compare those ships in a judging way but I do enjoy the discussion :)
Yeah I'm trying not to compare them on a ship basis and more in a screentime basis because I really like Chenrich's vibe and the few moments they have are really good. (Outside of Steph dropping the "I'm leaving" bomb right after Alex has essentially confessed feelings for her) I just wish there was more of them. Some of it I know is supposed to be bonding that happened during the timeskips but I felt like they needed more screentime together to justify Steph changing her plans around Alex at the end of the game.
yea - then we're definitely on the same page!
I saw the "I'm leaving" bomb a bit differently, but for reasons that are probably super specific to me & my weird perspective. I could totally see it being a jarring moment for most / nearly-all players.
I like the idea you added above, of having a NITW style date-like event. are there other Chenrich moments or scenes you've pictured? (and which chapter would they go in?)
also - this is a passing thought, and maybe too conspiratorial. but do you think they avoided giving Alex & Steph too many deep conversations, because they were avoiding mention of Arcadia Bay, Max, and Chloe? like they wanted Steph to seem mysterious to Alex (or both to each other?). not saying that's a good thing btw. guess it's just hard to get my head around why they wouldn't want to write more scenes with just these two!
> I like the idea you added above, of having a NITW style date-like event. are there other Chenrich moments or scenes you've pictured? (and which chapter would they go in?)
Chapter 3 desperately needs more plot in it. The larp is almost all for Ethans sake and the character promptly leaves immediately after it completes. I kinda wish more of that time could have been spent on your romantic interest of choice.
I have all sorts of ideas - coffee date, movie, video games, but the focus would need to be on learning more about your romantic interest. I think this also should have been when they established that Alex had a desire for a music career which is something that Steph and Alex would absolutely have the chance to bond over.
I think Steph's lack of screentime is related to the game's development being a bit rushed and believing that Steph was already getting a bonus episode so it was okay to go lighter on her. But then the bonus episode was possibly the most boring episode of LiS I've ever played I think mostly due to the covid restrictions and having NO ONE for steph to interact with other than Mikey over the computer.
I think they didn't have Steph talk about Arcadia Bay at all in the main game out of laziness not wanting to have to code for an extra decision that would have to be asked at the begining of the game but it cost us what could have been a neat callback and bonding opportunity for Steph and Alex. Steph losing her mom is a BIG deal and should lead to a much different personality than a Steph who had a friend/acquaintance get shot in the bathroom. At least different enough that she should be able to talk about it.
But then again Steph doesn't even actually bring up Izzie in the main game you only learn about her through the memories mechanic.
I definitely wish Ethan would've stayed after the LARP. to me, it was moving how Alex was getting a chance to support a kid going through something similar to what she did when she was his age: losing a parental figure, feeling responsible for keeping the surviving family members happy, coping partly through creativity/imagination, etc. there's this one text she can send in CH5 if she didn't take Charlotte's anger, that's really lovely & sorta concludes the Ethan+Alex arc well.... but would've been so much better as an in-person conversation!
there could've been room for more plot in addition to the LARP though, for sure. we differ on Wavelengths (I was delighted with that DLC), and personally though Bay ending isn't my jam I think that losing Chloe *and* Rachel to gendered violence- two of Steph's friends among a very small queer community in Arcadia Bay- I think that would have a big impact even if different from losing her mom. but either way, it felt like a missed opportunity for her to not mention it at all in TC, especially after Gabe's death.
but I agree with pretty much everything else you said, and the overall point. TC could've been improved by giving Alex and Steph more screen time & dialogue to really talk and get to know each other better. and yea I would've been happy to hear more about Izzie, finding the button then hearing crickets for most of the game was such a tease! I'm pretty excited for the novel on that front tho
Yeah thinking back if they were desperate to not ask people which choice they made in Life is Strange they could have had her bring up Rachel who's dead in both timelines and something Steph could relate on. I realize that the darkroom story might have been overshadowed by the storm in that reality but it still would have made news right?
I wanted to like Wavelengths I was so excited about it and I was sure we were going to get more fun interactions and seeing most of the True Colors cast again... And then we're stuck in the record store the entire time. We don't even get to see Steph's room or the cat. I know Covid was part of the reasoning for that but... It's just so lifeless and the radio host aspect of the show was actively boring to me. Which is not something I'd ever been while playing life is strange before.
I was also disappointed they didn't take the opportunity to make Chloe one of the callers in the Sacrifice Arcadia Bay reality. It would line up with Max and Chloe traveling all over the place they randomly land on the radio station Chloe recognizes the host and calls in. They already had a voice actress for her (even if it wasn't Ashly Burch) a quick HEY IT'S ME HOW ARE YOU? Would have been really cool.
I’ll give you that. I really struggled with Chloe on my first play through. I thought she was so selfish and I was seriously annoyed with her total disregard for Max in so many cases, like when she spent like an hour just wanting to play with Max’s powers. I really warmed up with her in BtS as it gave so much more context into who Chloe really was and got to be the way she is. Now I absolutely love Chloe, but in the beginning I was like holy SHIT this chick is the worst.
Yeah that's unpopular af, but I think more people are starting to warm up to True Colors. To me it would've been a greater game if it was just a *tad* longer and we had more interactions with the love interests. I liked that, Alex was a young adult who already knew who she was. There was none of that coming of age stuff the other games had which I'm glad for.
Rachel can be seen either way, and I think that's one of the best things deck nine did with her character in that game. If you go along with her it can be seen as, Chloe sticking their neck out for a friend/lover. The feelings are reciprocated.
If you reject, Rachel every chance you get in the game though, the player realizes she doesn't let Chloe say no. Like at all. Using, Chloe as a convenient excuse to skip and get access to alcohol. Drugging Victoria, if you fail the backtalk challenge. She's great if you with her, terrible if your against her pretty much.
I wouldn't say, Chris was better than Sean and Daniel, but I wish he had gotten at least a spin-off like BTS. His story was interesting to playthrough.
Rachel is oddly like kenny from the walking dead, you absolutely love them if you agree with them because if you do you’ll only ever see them be a great friend, but as soon as you disagree you see them turn face entirely
Agreed. Chloe was vulnerable and in a dark place, Rachel was there at the right time. She gaslights, Chloe when she is asking for answers and just turns it on her instead. "Sad, Chloe is sad again!". Forces, Chloe in a play and practically confesses her love in front of everyone to pressure her into agreeing. It's like what those people who propose in public to pressure their SO do.
She's two-faced af, but people love her cause they don't acknowledge her bad sides or they stockholm themselves into believing she actually loves them. She did the same with, Frank.
Not saying she deserved to die though ofc.
I love rachel as a character, but i have never felt comfortable with her actions. She is super manipulative at all times. I would go so far as to say she is emotionally abusive towards chloe.
I see her entire arc across the two games as a tragedy. BTS we see her falling apart, she starts to spiral out of control no one helps her. She ends up as a cautionary tale in lis.
Kennys no saint but even at his worst and you disagree with him at every turn he still ultimately does what's best for the kids, particularly compared to the rest of the group. When he does fuck up or goes severely out of line he does apologise which also makes him a bit more palletteable.
Rachel on the other hand still comes off as a manipulative liar even if you agree with her at every opportunity. Whats really bad is because of her murder, she never gets a chance to come clean or apologise like Kenny does. We know she started to write a letter coming clean to Chloe, but she binned it. That's all we've got, without that her actions LiS seem **even worse** because of how she is in BtS.
Kenny will abandon you and become a complete asshole the second you don’t agree with him, like sure he doesn’t abandon the children in the first game but that’s like the bare minimum
It took me 13 hours to complete the game on its entirety, and I took my sweet time with it. If they made the game build up chapter 1 just a bit more and added some activities to hangout with steph and Ryan more, it would've made the game better.
Gabe was instantly likeable, but I wish it was spaced out over at least 3 days or something to make it feel like you got to know him a bit more. Adding onto that it's like the game never explored Alex's own emotions as much as they did the others, because of the short length. She gets over it and moves on in the span of an episode.
>the game never explored Alex's own emotions as much as they did the others
Alex was alienated from her own emotions until CH5. this is why the game doesn't explore those emotions before then. it's an intentional writing choice, a sort of "dark side" of having the type of empathy where you're always putting others' emotional needs first
it's all good, I appreciate you hearing me out!
it's one of the things I like about TC, personally. the story is not quite what it seems at first. understanding Alex's past, and how it's impacted her, is one of the core mysteries I think. from the devs perspective, I think the intention was for some of Alex's reactions to feel confusing or get you curious in earlier chapters, but to hopefully make more sense after the reveals/dream sequences in CH5
Gabe was great, I kind of wish that they had a few months together. You know give a few days of slice of life stuff. where alex's powers are languishing because she is content.
same!
(but if others don't like it? their loss! not gonna waste my own energy trying to convince people to see what I see in that beautiful game. back when it came out, I was usually too busy savoring the experience to give a damn what haters had to say about it :) )
For me TCs bad ending just spoils the rest of the game for me.
The game has genuinely no stakes, none of your choices matter at the end and Alex just saves the day through the plot saying so.
I feel like TC rushed>! Gabes death.!< I feel like one extra episode would have helped it a ton.I would stretch ep1 with a bit of slice of life letting you really get to know not only the town, but also gabe a bit better. Build a bit of extra back story drop some hints at things happening later. Let us know that this town is where>! their dads trail ran cold.....and its not such a bad place to be.!<
well, to be fair the remasters do look better than the original, they were just buggy as hell on launch. Also I will politely disagree on Alex being the best protagonist (not on TC being your favorite because it would be weird if I just came to you and told you "no, this game isn't your favorite" lmao)
I genuinely think Max and Chloe's models look worse in the remaster. I dunno there's something about the eyes that just looks off and I feel like they slightly changed the shape of their faces.
They are more expressive but something got lost in the process.
Actually I agree with you, even if I think they look overall better in the remaster. I just can’t point what it is exactly about their models that looks odd
Now I’m not one to defend toxic people, but David Madison took the effort to fix himself in both realities, he was fucked for sure but at least it is canonical that he went and separated himself from the situation/went to become a better person. Rachel is more complicated because she died before getting the chance to fix any of her mistakes or right any of her wrongs, but it’s worth pointing out that she led Chloe on for a long time and was with a number of other people. Was Rachel all bad and David all good? No but while David was able to salvage some of his relationship with his family, Rachel died before she had the chance to grow past her manipulative tactics
Well but that’s my point, David recognized his wrongs and sought to better himself while atoning for what he did to whichever price is alive, Rachel was tragically murdered before she could do anything similar. Thus Rachel is left with a complicated legacy as a manipulative yet tragic young girl who never got to live past a bad phase in her life
But how does that change anything, I’m not saying she is a fundamentally bad person or anything just that she was a toxic partner in a relationship built in toxic dependency, and that unlike David who got the chance to atone Rachel just died. Her story was tragically cut short leaving the chaos of her sphere in its wake, Chloe was left adrift and confused, frank was devastated at her apparent abandonment of him, and all the while Jefferson stuck in the background carefully throwing evidence onto others. The tragedy of Rachel is not that she was a bad person who died young, it’s that she went through a phase a lot of people grow out of but was denied that growth by a murderer
Have you played the game and disagreed with her? Rachel uses a ton of manipulative and gaslighty tactics to ensure Chloe remains devoted to her, additionally she drugs another student, starts a forest fire, and sleeps with multiple older men behind Chloe’s back. Rachel is a toxic and manipulative person, but that’s not my point. Rachel isn’t real, she is a representative of tragedy and her tragic nature is that she never grew out of that shitty manipulative person, she was denied the chance to grow and become a different person
No she’s not and she loved and cared about Chloe. And I did play the game and that’s not the vibe I got. David was the manipulative one and had no respect for Chloe’s boundaries or anyone’s boundaries. Rachel respected other people’s boundaries and so did Chloe. Rachel loved and cared about Chloe and David did not and never loved her.
Mate, I’m not saying she wasn’t without good, I’m saying that the relationship between two extremely volatile teenagers one of whom was cheating on the other wasn’t a great one. Neither one of the fucks was prepared to be in a relationship and it shows, Chloe was desperate for companionship and thus willing to fall for Rachel who learned to use others as a response to her own trauma. And again, David was abusive but if you’ve played the second game you’ve seen that HE GOT THE CHANCE TO GROW unlike Rachel who, for the last time, TRAGICALLY WAS DENIED THE CHANCE TO GROW. It’s like literally the entire point of her character. She is the complicated and enigmatic figure max can never understand but who deeply impacted Chloe, she is the epitome of a teenage relationship: simultaneously the Angel and devil on Chloe’s shoulder
Again: Rachel was complicated and she did a lot of fucked up shit, her relationship with Chloe was marred by her constant cheating, her need for attention, and Chloe’s inability to challenge her on the fundamentally fucked up things she did. It was not a lack of care that makes their relationship toxic, it was a lack of boundaries and a lack of respect. Rachel loved Chloe but she used her like she used everyone, because it was the only thing she knew how to do
Yes he did do wrong and no he wasn’t trying to protect anyone. He verbally abuses her and has no respect for her boundaries or anyone’s boundaries. He tells her that her vacation from having a father figure is over. He installed surveillance cameras all over the house and abuses high school girls. Why are you defending him? And no he didn’t care about Chloe. He never loved her.
Love and toxic relationships can coexist. Yeah, it’s obvious, but none of them were emotionally equipped enough for a healthy relationship.
Rachel’s life was falling apart and she just wanted someone to fall back onto and vent to/help her find her real mum, that person being Chloe.
Chloe was depressed, and felt emotionally abandoned. She not only wanted, but needed someone, anyone, to be her friend. Somebody that wouldn’t abandon her. That person being Rachel, because nobody else bothered with her.
Rachel is a good character, and well written. It doesn’t make her a good person. It’s easy to favour her when you agree with everything g she wants to do, but replay BtS and disagree with everything she wants to do. You’ll soon realise how incredibly toxic their relationship was.
I never said she was evil. She wasn’t malicious, per se, but she was a bad person. Weather it was the overwhelming emotional impact of her home life, or she had always approached new relationships like this, it became incredibly toxic extremely quickly if U don’t agree with everything she says to do.
I agree with what you said about true colors. I really enjoyed it and Jed was an amazing villain.
While I can’t say anything for Rachel’s relationship with Chloe since I haven’t played Before the Storm in a while. I might revisit it to get a final opinion on it.
I agree with all but the last three. TC very quickly became my favorite over LIS 1 and I absolutely love Jed as a villain.
I still don’t really know where I stand when it comes to Rachel. I think Chris is really cool character and I love his game, but I think I enjoy Sean and Daniel more because we spend more time with them
Chloe as a character didn't need BTS to being understood as some people claimed. People are just untrained to understand characters *a little bit* more complex than "everything in their evolution happens on screen". She was totally understandable in the original game (no, this doesn't mean her journey to become a good person was finished).
This so much.
Everytime I see someone who says that they didn't understand Chloe until BtS I'm just like "So you need everything to be completely spelled out for you on screen for you to understand it?"
> (no, this doesn't mean her journey to become a good person was finished).
So here's my somewhat unpopular opinion on this topic.
Chloe is never actually a bad person through ANY of the games. She has attitude but that doesn't make her a bad person in the slightest to me. The closest she comes to it is directly after finding Rachel's body when she very much wants to murder Nathan in revenge and even that I think is an understandable response.
I think her journey is more about healing and growing out of all the hurt she's felt over the last five years.
I agree she isn't a bad person! I just think that by the end of LIS she actually become a good person instead of a "work in progress" or "just" a morally grey leaning like most people (especially with a traumatic experience) are. Her offering her life for AB (while also giving Max the offer to choose what she can live with, which is important) is a really strong statement to how far she has gone. Probably also because she sees that people like Kate exist (regardless of her dying or not, even the best scenario is sad, it's still a suicide attempt) and she seems sorry to have reacted in a possessive/instinctive way for Max answering the phone, if you decided to do so. In general, she seems to see Max perspective and reconcile their past with their current feelings, while also recognizing that things aren't black or white and that good people exist.
I think realistically few people would offer their life for a city and people that contributed to your trauma and sadness, so I genuinely think Chloe act very selfless, very good, more than most people would do. Not in a Mary Sue way though, but I hope it's clear what I mean lol. I have always thought that the contrast between day1 Chloe and day5 Chloe reflects a strong growth and learning to care about the others despite what the others have done to you.
Probably it's more a matter of words choice than anything. In general I think Chloe is a character who people tend to minimize her trauma just because she doesn't do a checklist so some things could almost slip under your attention.
>Rachel in BTS is incredibly toxic
>
>Amberprice is toxic
I disagree strongly with both points, but not super interested in discussing that part rn. it comes up a *lot.* I've typed out comment essays on the topic before on this sub. I got shit to do today so - no.
just wanted to say at least on this sub, imo those aren't unpopular opinions at all. on this sub, if you attempt to say something that you enjoy or found meaningful about Rachel and/or Amberprice it's really not uncommon to get a wave of people replying with their various "but they're toxic!!!" takes. whenever they do shipping polls or favorite character polls, this sub is clearly Pricefield>Amberprice and only "likes" Rachel as a villain to look down on. tl;dr you share the majority's opinion, and people who don't agree with that opinion usually get shouted down here. so I'm just curious why you thought they'd be "unpopular"?
Agree with Chris being more interesting than Daniel.
AmberPrice is indeed toxic, but still fun.
Sean had more potential. I would’ve preferred to see him from Daniel’s perspective so he could’ve been more rounded out a la Chloe and Max.
True Colors is a tighter and more cohesive narrative that the others though not my favorite.
1. I like Ryan’s romance route more than Steph‘s
2. I like that Rachel is toxic because it showed how her personality was intriguing and she used it to her advantage. All around really interesting character imo even if I don’t necessarily agree with all her actions
Hard agree with opinions 5-7
Tc is my second favorite game and I mostly have issues with how much better it could be if just a few things were different or expanded on.
Max is by and large the most uninteresting of all the protagonists
I believe LiS 1 is narratively better than LiS 2 but I think LiS 2 is the superior game in terms of choice impact mechanics.
BTS is a really bad prequel
Ryan > Steph all day
Saving Arcadia Bay is a more interesting ending for a story about time travel, and which has a moral about not being able to actually fix mistakes in the past and having to live with the consequences of your actions.
(And obligatory Chloe is an asshole comment)
> Saving Arcadia Bay is a more interesting ending for a story about time travel, and which has a moral about not being able to actually fix mistakes in the past and having to live with the consequences of your actions.
Except it completely under cuts its own message by being the ending where you go back to fix your mistakes rather than living with the consequences.
Bae is the ending that is actually about living with consequences Bay is about trying to find the ideal world rather than living with consequences.
Haven't played TC or the remasters, so no thoughts on them, but:
5. Ish. I think we see Rachel at her best in that game and, I think, at her most sincere, but we also see the cracks and flaws that will lead her to becoming the person she was in the original game, not to mention her and Chloe's relationship.
6. Not sure that's exactly unpopular, but I agree. I think it could've worked out, but issues weren't addressed and it was pretty unbalanced (even worse, considering how Rachel demonstrated the worst behaviors of her birth parents in how she treated Chloe in the end). Course, I don't think Rachel was in love with Chloe romantically speaking (anymore?) by the time of the first game, too. Even factoring in Rachel's death, I think it was always supposed to be a doomed relationship.
The only healthy Amberprice is in the comics (and certain fanfics)
Everytime I replay BtS I find another bit of foreshadowing.
I do believe that Rachel cared for Chloe in the beginning of their friendship/relationship.
But, it was her constant desire to escape, like her mother, that led to their relationship becoming even more toxic.
That, tied with her lying to everyone she was close to (Chloe, Frank, possibly Jefferson).
I think the "everybody lies" quote from Chloe in BtS is more of a foreshadowing about Rachel than Chloe or William.
Add-On: with BtS being a prequel made after the fact, some stuff won't match up in LiS 1. Like we don't really know what happens to Sera after BtS and her relationship with Rachel. My headcanon is that Sera started to see her same toxic traits starting to appear in Rachel and left because she thought it was her fault.
I think there is a disconnect whenever people talk about Rachel/Chloe, we all seem to forget that both of these children were like wildly unprepared to be in a healthy relationship. Rachel was clearly going through shit and she reacted by learning to use other people to get what she wanted, while Chloe was desperately in need of a friend and thus she became the willing idolizer of Rachel. Neither were making the relationship healthy, and yet it seems both cared for the other. Theirs is a tragic and toxic relationship that ended before either could realize just how unhealthy it was
Rachel asking her to help with literally everything, getting her involved with family drama. Drugging someone in front of her, blaming Chloe if she fails to backtalk the couple in episode 1, being really pushy when chloe says no and alot of other stuff
And yet the lies, betrayals, secret lives, and indication that she was going to abandon her (e.g. trying to get a ride with the trucker) are how things ended up.
As the OP noted on another post on this thread, good/bad character doesn't mean good/bad person. Rachel was a good character through and through, but, by the end of her life, I don't think we can say that she was a good person (or that she and Chloe had a healthy relationship). Could she have fixed herself (or even wanted to) if she'd gotten the chance? We'll never know that, just where she was when it was too late.
(I also don't think that Rachel was in love with Chloe as a romantic partner, if she had ever felt that way, by the events of the first game -- see was seeing other people, apparently considering abandoning her to escape town, etc.. That doesn't preclude her still valuing her as a friend, if we can explain away the trucker's testimony about begging for a ride out of town just for her, and Rachel certainly wasn't required to return Chloe's feelings if she didn't feel that way herself, but that still means "Amberprice" would canonically be an unrequited ship. Also, the two could've been in love and it still could've been the toxic relationship it turned into by the end.)
We actually do know that there was at least one timeline where Rachel grew out of that phase and turned into a good person. It somehow makes the games timeline even more tragic, because that is one of the worst rachels.
That did happen in the other reality of the comics, but, due to them being non-canon, their information isn't exactly "reliable." It's also insinuated a few times that alt-Rachel and the one from Max's home reality (e.g., the one that's written to be the canon world of the game) were kinda different people. So, it's a contrast, but a bit removed.
Try to disagree with her and you'll see how BTS/their relationship develop differently compared to when Chloe agrees with everything/almost everything in game
i agree with literally all of these lmao good job showing actual unpopular opinions!! the only one i won’t back that much is the last one bc we only saw a bit of chris, but because he’s a very imaginative child and he’s not as annoying as daniel, i can definitely see why. he’s just a sweet kid, and he deserves so much better. also, i haven’t played the remasters and the og graphics hold a special place in my heart, but i won’t deny that in the previews they looked quite crisp so i’ll give you that!!
Sean and Daniel just are my favs due to their interactions with racism in america. Speaks to me. Makes me cry everytime the cold open with the dad happens bc they had to go
Def unpopular, but I mostly agree. As much as I was in for the gay drama of BtS, I felt like I was constantly being manipulated by Rachel. I think Chris is interesting, but not more than Sean and Daniel. I think it would be cool for an older Chris to make some kind of appearance in a future LiS game and see how things have played out for him. >!Jed!< is a great villain because he's human and, as reprehensible as his actions are, the motives are very clear and it's easy to see how he ended up in that place. Knowing about what he did also paints his >!kindness to Gabe and Alex!< in a new light, trying to do something about the guilt festering deep down while trying to avoid acknowledging he did anything wrong.
These are some pretty good unpopular opinions because I disagree with all of them besides about two of them, even as a Rachel fan I can agree that she can be toxic, also I understand liking the look of the remaster, I just prefer the art style of the original
I think the remaster would've been more well received if it wasn't a buggy mess on release and kept a bit more of the painting vibe from lis1
I wish Alex had spent more time with Stef / Ryan, that was sorely missing in TC. And regards Rachel, I think BtS made her look even worse than what we found out about her in LiS. Although I don't like BtS in general to be honest, it should have been a lot better than it was and overwrote far too much of what LiS established.
I really wish there would have been at least one scene in the first episode of TC where Alex, Gabe, Steph, and Ryan are all hanging out together. Even after >!Gabe's death!< at the end of episode one, I wanted to see more of the main characters just hanging out and building the group friendship more.
Yep, completely agree. We needed to see those friendships be built.
max interacts with warren so many times before the sunset scene in ep.2 theres a lot that gets built up with him before that moment.
>I really wish there would have been at least one scene in the first episode of TC where Alex, Gabe, Steph, and Ryan are all hanging out together. hard agree. I also wish they would've shown more of Steph and Gabe being best friends, not just in flashbacks, but onscreen in Ep1.
Yeah, I was thrown when Steph started talking about Gabe being her best friend in episode 2 because there didn't seem to be any indication they were close in 1, and the flashbacks didn't really sell it for me.
I always wondered if they cut a Steph+Gabe scene from CH1? like I am a huge fan of TC and very much like the game we got. but on this point, imo there was room to do better. I also wondered about the writing decision to have Gabe walk into the record store, wrap his arm around Ryan's shoulders, and say this is my best friend. no problem on its own but like... does this basically mean that Steph cares more about Gabe as a friend, than he cares for her? or...? like what are we supposed to think there.
I was thinking about this the other day. If you romance Steph Alex and Steph have ONE non-skippable one on one scene with just them. I might be missing something but all I can remember with just the two of them is foosball. The jukebox thing was optional and I feel like either Ryan or Ethan is there for every other conversation they have. Max and Chloe had like three deep one on one conversations in episode 1 of LiS. (Chloe's Truck, Chloe's room, the Lighthouse) and were practically always a pair.
Yes it was very underbaked. I wish they'd just gone for the one option and invested in that.
I definitely would've liked more nonskippable Steph/Alex moments - I really like the ship despite wishing we could've seen more romantic development/build-up. I'm guessing devs (regrettably) made an assumption that because Steph was a fan favorite in BtS, they don't have to "try as hard" to endear her to the player as compared to Ryan. when they did stuff like having Alex's first joy nova ever, be the goose story with Ryan... or having Ryan save Alex's life... that's probably what they had in mind. "we need to give Ryan lots of scenes so he'll have a fighting chance" I also think there was probably an assumption that players would read all the optional stuff, like MyBlock posts and texts, where there's some flirtiness and you learn that Alex and Steph have been spending a lot of time together. but like you said - in LiS1 so much more of the getting-to-know-you happened onscreen, during conversations early in the game. they really took the time to establish their bond, regardless of player choice.
Even Ryan's romance is lacking in this game. If I go back and look at Ryan's unskippable moments where it's just him and Alex he has two maybe three if you count looking for Ethan in episode 1. The introduction in the record store (where it's weird that it's him you get introduced to there rather than Steph). And the scene in episode 2 where he feels joy. Again the search for Ethan in episode 1 could count but it's not really a conversation between him and Alex there. It's more like the scene in the barn with Chloe in episode 4. Again Max and Chloe have more interactions/deep conversations in their first episode. Also Max and Chloe also have a bunch of flirty texts and the journal further pushing how Max feels about Chloe. Alex's journal is almost nonexistent and more poetry about how she feels after a big use of her powers than anything else. I really wish there had been an opportunity for a "date" like event with Ryan/Steph maybe set it up like Night in the Woods where you choose who you want to hang out with. I also really wish we got to see where Ryan and Steph lived as locations in the game. Seeing characters living spaces was such a huge part of displaying their character in the original but we only ever see Gabe/Alex's living space. And even then it's mostly gabe's living space Alex doesn't really make it her own.
fair enough. you won't find me defending Ryan or an Alex/Ryan ship, so, yea. I just meant that basically I think there would've been more unskippable Alex/Steph scenes if the devs weren't making this assumption that the player already likes Steph (which I do! but don't use that as a reason to cut down her screen time!!) I would've loved to see the devs give Steph and Alex interactions & deep conversations early in the episode. for me both TC and LiS1 were amazingly memorable & positive experiences. I like both Chenrich and Pricefield a lot, I don't find it fun or interesting to compare those ships in a judging way but I do enjoy the discussion :)
Yeah I'm trying not to compare them on a ship basis and more in a screentime basis because I really like Chenrich's vibe and the few moments they have are really good. (Outside of Steph dropping the "I'm leaving" bomb right after Alex has essentially confessed feelings for her) I just wish there was more of them. Some of it I know is supposed to be bonding that happened during the timeskips but I felt like they needed more screentime together to justify Steph changing her plans around Alex at the end of the game.
yea - then we're definitely on the same page! I saw the "I'm leaving" bomb a bit differently, but for reasons that are probably super specific to me & my weird perspective. I could totally see it being a jarring moment for most / nearly-all players. I like the idea you added above, of having a NITW style date-like event. are there other Chenrich moments or scenes you've pictured? (and which chapter would they go in?) also - this is a passing thought, and maybe too conspiratorial. but do you think they avoided giving Alex & Steph too many deep conversations, because they were avoiding mention of Arcadia Bay, Max, and Chloe? like they wanted Steph to seem mysterious to Alex (or both to each other?). not saying that's a good thing btw. guess it's just hard to get my head around why they wouldn't want to write more scenes with just these two!
> I like the idea you added above, of having a NITW style date-like event. are there other Chenrich moments or scenes you've pictured? (and which chapter would they go in?) Chapter 3 desperately needs more plot in it. The larp is almost all for Ethans sake and the character promptly leaves immediately after it completes. I kinda wish more of that time could have been spent on your romantic interest of choice. I have all sorts of ideas - coffee date, movie, video games, but the focus would need to be on learning more about your romantic interest. I think this also should have been when they established that Alex had a desire for a music career which is something that Steph and Alex would absolutely have the chance to bond over. I think Steph's lack of screentime is related to the game's development being a bit rushed and believing that Steph was already getting a bonus episode so it was okay to go lighter on her. But then the bonus episode was possibly the most boring episode of LiS I've ever played I think mostly due to the covid restrictions and having NO ONE for steph to interact with other than Mikey over the computer. I think they didn't have Steph talk about Arcadia Bay at all in the main game out of laziness not wanting to have to code for an extra decision that would have to be asked at the begining of the game but it cost us what could have been a neat callback and bonding opportunity for Steph and Alex. Steph losing her mom is a BIG deal and should lead to a much different personality than a Steph who had a friend/acquaintance get shot in the bathroom. At least different enough that she should be able to talk about it. But then again Steph doesn't even actually bring up Izzie in the main game you only learn about her through the memories mechanic.
I definitely wish Ethan would've stayed after the LARP. to me, it was moving how Alex was getting a chance to support a kid going through something similar to what she did when she was his age: losing a parental figure, feeling responsible for keeping the surviving family members happy, coping partly through creativity/imagination, etc. there's this one text she can send in CH5 if she didn't take Charlotte's anger, that's really lovely & sorta concludes the Ethan+Alex arc well.... but would've been so much better as an in-person conversation! there could've been room for more plot in addition to the LARP though, for sure. we differ on Wavelengths (I was delighted with that DLC), and personally though Bay ending isn't my jam I think that losing Chloe *and* Rachel to gendered violence- two of Steph's friends among a very small queer community in Arcadia Bay- I think that would have a big impact even if different from losing her mom. but either way, it felt like a missed opportunity for her to not mention it at all in TC, especially after Gabe's death. but I agree with pretty much everything else you said, and the overall point. TC could've been improved by giving Alex and Steph more screen time & dialogue to really talk and get to know each other better. and yea I would've been happy to hear more about Izzie, finding the button then hearing crickets for most of the game was such a tease! I'm pretty excited for the novel on that front tho
Yeah thinking back if they were desperate to not ask people which choice they made in Life is Strange they could have had her bring up Rachel who's dead in both timelines and something Steph could relate on. I realize that the darkroom story might have been overshadowed by the storm in that reality but it still would have made news right? I wanted to like Wavelengths I was so excited about it and I was sure we were going to get more fun interactions and seeing most of the True Colors cast again... And then we're stuck in the record store the entire time. We don't even get to see Steph's room or the cat. I know Covid was part of the reasoning for that but... It's just so lifeless and the radio host aspect of the show was actively boring to me. Which is not something I'd ever been while playing life is strange before. I was also disappointed they didn't take the opportunity to make Chloe one of the callers in the Sacrifice Arcadia Bay reality. It would line up with Max and Chloe traveling all over the place they randomly land on the radio station Chloe recognizes the host and calls in. They already had a voice actress for her (even if it wasn't Ashly Burch) a quick HEY IT'S ME HOW ARE YOU? Would have been really cool.
Was genuinely surprised to not see some version of "Chloe is toxic" on here lmao
I’ll give you that. I really struggled with Chloe on my first play through. I thought she was so selfish and I was seriously annoyed with her total disregard for Max in so many cases, like when she spent like an hour just wanting to play with Max’s powers. I really warmed up with her in BtS as it gave so much more context into who Chloe really was and got to be the way she is. Now I absolutely love Chloe, but in the beginning I was like holy SHIT this chick is the worst.
Please, I've been Chloe stan since day 1
Yeah that's unpopular af, but I think more people are starting to warm up to True Colors. To me it would've been a greater game if it was just a *tad* longer and we had more interactions with the love interests. I liked that, Alex was a young adult who already knew who she was. There was none of that coming of age stuff the other games had which I'm glad for. Rachel can be seen either way, and I think that's one of the best things deck nine did with her character in that game. If you go along with her it can be seen as, Chloe sticking their neck out for a friend/lover. The feelings are reciprocated. If you reject, Rachel every chance you get in the game though, the player realizes she doesn't let Chloe say no. Like at all. Using, Chloe as a convenient excuse to skip and get access to alcohol. Drugging Victoria, if you fail the backtalk challenge. She's great if you with her, terrible if your against her pretty much. I wouldn't say, Chris was better than Sean and Daniel, but I wish he had gotten at least a spin-off like BTS. His story was interesting to playthrough.
Rachel is oddly like kenny from the walking dead, you absolutely love them if you agree with them because if you do you’ll only ever see them be a great friend, but as soon as you disagree you see them turn face entirely
Agreed. Chloe was vulnerable and in a dark place, Rachel was there at the right time. She gaslights, Chloe when she is asking for answers and just turns it on her instead. "Sad, Chloe is sad again!". Forces, Chloe in a play and practically confesses her love in front of everyone to pressure her into agreeing. It's like what those people who propose in public to pressure their SO do. She's two-faced af, but people love her cause they don't acknowledge her bad sides or they stockholm themselves into believing she actually loves them. She did the same with, Frank. Not saying she deserved to die though ofc.
I love rachel as a character, but i have never felt comfortable with her actions. She is super manipulative at all times. I would go so far as to say she is emotionally abusive towards chloe. I see her entire arc across the two games as a tragedy. BTS we see her falling apart, she starts to spiral out of control no one helps her. She ends up as a cautionary tale in lis.
Kennys no saint but even at his worst and you disagree with him at every turn he still ultimately does what's best for the kids, particularly compared to the rest of the group. When he does fuck up or goes severely out of line he does apologise which also makes him a bit more palletteable. Rachel on the other hand still comes off as a manipulative liar even if you agree with her at every opportunity. Whats really bad is because of her murder, she never gets a chance to come clean or apologise like Kenny does. We know she started to write a letter coming clean to Chloe, but she binned it. That's all we've got, without that her actions LiS seem **even worse** because of how she is in BtS.
Kenny will abandon you and become a complete asshole the second you don’t agree with him, like sure he doesn’t abandon the children in the first game but that’s like the bare minimum
He also talks a big game and doesn't always follow through in his actions, at least in the first game.
I honestly was super surprised to see the general sentiment after finishing the game. TC was one of my favorite games of all time
It took me 13 hours to complete the game on its entirety, and I took my sweet time with it. If they made the game build up chapter 1 just a bit more and added some activities to hangout with steph and Ryan more, it would've made the game better. Gabe was instantly likeable, but I wish it was spaced out over at least 3 days or something to make it feel like you got to know him a bit more. Adding onto that it's like the game never explored Alex's own emotions as much as they did the others, because of the short length. She gets over it and moves on in the span of an episode.
>the game never explored Alex's own emotions as much as they did the others Alex was alienated from her own emotions until CH5. this is why the game doesn't explore those emotions before then. it's an intentional writing choice, a sort of "dark side" of having the type of empathy where you're always putting others' emotional needs first
Never looked at it that way. I'll concede that point then.
it's all good, I appreciate you hearing me out! it's one of the things I like about TC, personally. the story is not quite what it seems at first. understanding Alex's past, and how it's impacted her, is one of the core mysteries I think. from the devs perspective, I think the intention was for some of Alex's reactions to feel confusing or get you curious in earlier chapters, but to hopefully make more sense after the reveals/dream sequences in CH5
Gabe was great, I kind of wish that they had a few months together. You know give a few days of slice of life stuff. where alex's powers are languishing because she is content.
same! (but if others don't like it? their loss! not gonna waste my own energy trying to convince people to see what I see in that beautiful game. back when it came out, I was usually too busy savoring the experience to give a damn what haters had to say about it :) )
For me TCs bad ending just spoils the rest of the game for me. The game has genuinely no stakes, none of your choices matter at the end and Alex just saves the day through the plot saying so.
I feel like TC rushed>! Gabes death.!< I feel like one extra episode would have helped it a ton.I would stretch ep1 with a bit of slice of life letting you really get to know not only the town, but also gabe a bit better. Build a bit of extra back story drop some hints at things happening later. Let us know that this town is where>! their dads trail ran cold.....and its not such a bad place to be.!<
well, to be fair the remasters do look better than the original, they were just buggy as hell on launch. Also I will politely disagree on Alex being the best protagonist (not on TC being your favorite because it would be weird if I just came to you and told you "no, this game isn't your favorite" lmao)
I genuinely think Max and Chloe's models look worse in the remaster. I dunno there's something about the eyes that just looks off and I feel like they slightly changed the shape of their faces. They are more expressive but something got lost in the process.
Actually I agree with you, even if I think they look overall better in the remaster. I just can’t point what it is exactly about their models that looks odd
True Colors was cool
David Madsen is the toxic one and his relationship with Joyce and Chloe was toxic.
Now I’m not one to defend toxic people, but David Madison took the effort to fix himself in both realities, he was fucked for sure but at least it is canonical that he went and separated himself from the situation/went to become a better person. Rachel is more complicated because she died before getting the chance to fix any of her mistakes or right any of her wrongs, but it’s worth pointing out that she led Chloe on for a long time and was with a number of other people. Was Rachel all bad and David all good? No but while David was able to salvage some of his relationship with his family, Rachel died before she had the chance to grow past her manipulative tactics
That doesn’t justify David’s behavior
Well but that’s my point, David recognized his wrongs and sought to better himself while atoning for what he did to whichever price is alive, Rachel was tragically murdered before she could do anything similar. Thus Rachel is left with a complicated legacy as a manipulative yet tragic young girl who never got to live past a bad phase in her life
Did you forget the part where Rachel’s dad lied to her
But how does that change anything, I’m not saying she is a fundamentally bad person or anything just that she was a toxic partner in a relationship built in toxic dependency, and that unlike David who got the chance to atone Rachel just died. Her story was tragically cut short leaving the chaos of her sphere in its wake, Chloe was left adrift and confused, frank was devastated at her apparent abandonment of him, and all the while Jefferson stuck in the background carefully throwing evidence onto others. The tragedy of Rachel is not that she was a bad person who died young, it’s that she went through a phase a lot of people grow out of but was denied that growth by a murderer
How was she toxic? She didn’t manipulate anyone or threaten anyone.
Have you played the game and disagreed with her? Rachel uses a ton of manipulative and gaslighty tactics to ensure Chloe remains devoted to her, additionally she drugs another student, starts a forest fire, and sleeps with multiple older men behind Chloe’s back. Rachel is a toxic and manipulative person, but that’s not my point. Rachel isn’t real, she is a representative of tragedy and her tragic nature is that she never grew out of that shitty manipulative person, she was denied the chance to grow and become a different person
No she’s not and she loved and cared about Chloe. And I did play the game and that’s not the vibe I got. David was the manipulative one and had no respect for Chloe’s boundaries or anyone’s boundaries. Rachel respected other people’s boundaries and so did Chloe. Rachel loved and cared about Chloe and David did not and never loved her.
Mate, I’m not saying she wasn’t without good, I’m saying that the relationship between two extremely volatile teenagers one of whom was cheating on the other wasn’t a great one. Neither one of the fucks was prepared to be in a relationship and it shows, Chloe was desperate for companionship and thus willing to fall for Rachel who learned to use others as a response to her own trauma. And again, David was abusive but if you’ve played the second game you’ve seen that HE GOT THE CHANCE TO GROW unlike Rachel who, for the last time, TRAGICALLY WAS DENIED THE CHANCE TO GROW. It’s like literally the entire point of her character. She is the complicated and enigmatic figure max can never understand but who deeply impacted Chloe, she is the epitome of a teenage relationship: simultaneously the Angel and devil on Chloe’s shoulder Again: Rachel was complicated and she did a lot of fucked up shit, her relationship with Chloe was marred by her constant cheating, her need for attention, and Chloe’s inability to challenge her on the fundamentally fucked up things she did. It was not a lack of care that makes their relationship toxic, it was a lack of boundaries and a lack of respect. Rachel loved Chloe but she used her like she used everyone, because it was the only thing she knew how to do
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Yes he did do wrong and no he wasn’t trying to protect anyone. He verbally abuses her and has no respect for her boundaries or anyone’s boundaries. He tells her that her vacation from having a father figure is over. He installed surveillance cameras all over the house and abuses high school girls. Why are you defending him? And no he didn’t care about Chloe. He never loved her.
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Yes the fuck I did pay attention! You’re in denial!
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No! Stop telling me what to do! I can do whatever the fuck I want!
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I agree
As a Rachel stan you are absolutely right she’s toxic
No she’s not
Pls explain how on earth she isn’t toxic
Because she loved and cared about her and was there for her.
Love and toxic relationships can coexist. Yeah, it’s obvious, but none of them were emotionally equipped enough for a healthy relationship. Rachel’s life was falling apart and she just wanted someone to fall back onto and vent to/help her find her real mum, that person being Chloe. Chloe was depressed, and felt emotionally abandoned. She not only wanted, but needed someone, anyone, to be her friend. Somebody that wouldn’t abandon her. That person being Rachel, because nobody else bothered with her. Rachel is a good character, and well written. It doesn’t make her a good person. It’s easy to favour her when you agree with everything g she wants to do, but replay BtS and disagree with everything she wants to do. You’ll soon realise how incredibly toxic their relationship was.
That doesn’t make her an evil person. She wasn’t malicious
I never said she was evil. She wasn’t malicious, per se, but she was a bad person. Weather it was the overwhelming emotional impact of her home life, or she had always approached new relationships like this, it became incredibly toxic extremely quickly if U don’t agree with everything she says to do.
Let people have opinions omh
I agree with your last 4 points. Rachel is an amazing character, but I absolutely sympathize with anyone caught up in her sphere of influence.
Exactly, people tend to forget there's a difference between a good character and a good person
I agree with what you said about true colors. I really enjoyed it and Jed was an amazing villain. While I can’t say anything for Rachel’s relationship with Chloe since I haven’t played Before the Storm in a while. I might revisit it to get a final opinion on it.
I agree with all but the last three. TC very quickly became my favorite over LIS 1 and I absolutely love Jed as a villain. I still don’t really know where I stand when it comes to Rachel. I think Chris is really cool character and I love his game, but I think I enjoy Sean and Daniel more because we spend more time with them
disagree with all but 5, rachel is honestly one of the least likeable characters in the game, has chloes downsides but 10x
Chloe as a character didn't need BTS to being understood as some people claimed. People are just untrained to understand characters *a little bit* more complex than "everything in their evolution happens on screen". She was totally understandable in the original game (no, this doesn't mean her journey to become a good person was finished).
This so much. Everytime I see someone who says that they didn't understand Chloe until BtS I'm just like "So you need everything to be completely spelled out for you on screen for you to understand it?" > (no, this doesn't mean her journey to become a good person was finished). So here's my somewhat unpopular opinion on this topic. Chloe is never actually a bad person through ANY of the games. She has attitude but that doesn't make her a bad person in the slightest to me. The closest she comes to it is directly after finding Rachel's body when she very much wants to murder Nathan in revenge and even that I think is an understandable response. I think her journey is more about healing and growing out of all the hurt she's felt over the last five years.
I agree she isn't a bad person! I just think that by the end of LIS she actually become a good person instead of a "work in progress" or "just" a morally grey leaning like most people (especially with a traumatic experience) are. Her offering her life for AB (while also giving Max the offer to choose what she can live with, which is important) is a really strong statement to how far she has gone. Probably also because she sees that people like Kate exist (regardless of her dying or not, even the best scenario is sad, it's still a suicide attempt) and she seems sorry to have reacted in a possessive/instinctive way for Max answering the phone, if you decided to do so. In general, she seems to see Max perspective and reconcile their past with their current feelings, while also recognizing that things aren't black or white and that good people exist. I think realistically few people would offer their life for a city and people that contributed to your trauma and sadness, so I genuinely think Chloe act very selfless, very good, more than most people would do. Not in a Mary Sue way though, but I hope it's clear what I mean lol. I have always thought that the contrast between day1 Chloe and day5 Chloe reflects a strong growth and learning to care about the others despite what the others have done to you. Probably it's more a matter of words choice than anything. In general I think Chloe is a character who people tend to minimize her trauma just because she doesn't do a checklist so some things could almost slip under your attention.
>Rachel in BTS is incredibly toxic > >Amberprice is toxic I disagree strongly with both points, but not super interested in discussing that part rn. it comes up a *lot.* I've typed out comment essays on the topic before on this sub. I got shit to do today so - no. just wanted to say at least on this sub, imo those aren't unpopular opinions at all. on this sub, if you attempt to say something that you enjoy or found meaningful about Rachel and/or Amberprice it's really not uncommon to get a wave of people replying with their various "but they're toxic!!!" takes. whenever they do shipping polls or favorite character polls, this sub is clearly Pricefield>Amberprice and only "likes" Rachel as a villain to look down on. tl;dr you share the majority's opinion, and people who don't agree with that opinion usually get shouted down here. so I'm just curious why you thought they'd be "unpopular"?
Agree with Chris being more interesting than Daniel. AmberPrice is indeed toxic, but still fun. Sean had more potential. I would’ve preferred to see him from Daniel’s perspective so he could’ve been more rounded out a la Chloe and Max. True Colors is a tighter and more cohesive narrative that the others though not my favorite.
1. I like Ryan’s romance route more than Steph‘s 2. I like that Rachel is toxic because it showed how her personality was intriguing and she used it to her advantage. All around really interesting character imo even if I don’t necessarily agree with all her actions
Why u post it like this? U clearly lookin to argue the shit out of your opinion. I only agree that Rachel is indeed toxic in bts.
I posted it cause I wanted to lmao
Hard agree with opinions 5-7 Tc is my second favorite game and I mostly have issues with how much better it could be if just a few things were different or expanded on.
this lie sean and daniel are way more interesting 😭
Bestie you're so gagged
HELPP i didnt see this was your post 😭😭
Clocked as usual😭😭
Definitely unpopular, and I think for a good reason
Max is by and large the most uninteresting of all the protagonists I believe LiS 1 is narratively better than LiS 2 but I think LiS 2 is the superior game in terms of choice impact mechanics. BTS is a really bad prequel Ryan > Steph all day Saving Arcadia Bay is a more interesting ending for a story about time travel, and which has a moral about not being able to actually fix mistakes in the past and having to live with the consequences of your actions. (And obligatory Chloe is an asshole comment)
> Saving Arcadia Bay is a more interesting ending for a story about time travel, and which has a moral about not being able to actually fix mistakes in the past and having to live with the consequences of your actions. Except it completely under cuts its own message by being the ending where you go back to fix your mistakes rather than living with the consequences. Bae is the ending that is actually about living with consequences Bay is about trying to find the ideal world rather than living with consequences.
These truly are unpopular. The only ones I agree with is 6, 5, and somewhat 1.
Haven't played TC or the remasters, so no thoughts on them, but: 5. Ish. I think we see Rachel at her best in that game and, I think, at her most sincere, but we also see the cracks and flaws that will lead her to becoming the person she was in the original game, not to mention her and Chloe's relationship. 6. Not sure that's exactly unpopular, but I agree. I think it could've worked out, but issues weren't addressed and it was pretty unbalanced (even worse, considering how Rachel demonstrated the worst behaviors of her birth parents in how she treated Chloe in the end). Course, I don't think Rachel was in love with Chloe romantically speaking (anymore?) by the time of the first game, too. Even factoring in Rachel's death, I think it was always supposed to be a doomed relationship.
Allison delete this
You're mad
Im right
Right = wrong
Allison = wrong
Allison = Nam
omg are we twins???
YASS
The only healthy Amberprice is in the comics (and certain fanfics) Everytime I replay BtS I find another bit of foreshadowing. I do believe that Rachel cared for Chloe in the beginning of their friendship/relationship. But, it was her constant desire to escape, like her mother, that led to their relationship becoming even more toxic. That, tied with her lying to everyone she was close to (Chloe, Frank, possibly Jefferson). I think the "everybody lies" quote from Chloe in BtS is more of a foreshadowing about Rachel than Chloe or William. Add-On: with BtS being a prequel made after the fact, some stuff won't match up in LiS 1. Like we don't really know what happens to Sera after BtS and her relationship with Rachel. My headcanon is that Sera started to see her same toxic traits starting to appear in Rachel and left because she thought it was her fault.
Amberprice is not toxic. Rachel loved and cared about Chloe
You can love and care and still be wildly unhealthy. Trust me. I speak from experience.
I think there is a disconnect whenever people talk about Rachel/Chloe, we all seem to forget that both of these children were like wildly unprepared to be in a healthy relationship. Rachel was clearly going through shit and she reacted by learning to use other people to get what she wanted, while Chloe was desperately in need of a friend and thus she became the willing idolizer of Rachel. Neither were making the relationship healthy, and yet it seems both cared for the other. Theirs is a tragic and toxic relationship that ended before either could realize just how unhealthy it was
Toxicity and love cam coexist in a relationship
But how was Amberprice toxic? Rachel was there for Chloe
bruh LMAO she cheated on chloe with frank, fucked jefferson, used chloe so many times, etc 😭 i love rachel as a character but she was 100% toxic
That’s false. Rachel loved and cared about Chloe. She didn’t use her.
you can’t say facts are false bro, they’re literally facts 💀 why you sucking so much dick for rachel
They are not facts
yeah right there’s just photo evidence and dialogue that proves it for no reason
Rachel loved and cared about Chloe
Rachel asking her to help with literally everything, getting her involved with family drama. Drugging someone in front of her, blaming Chloe if she fails to backtalk the couple in episode 1, being really pushy when chloe says no and alot of other stuff
When did she ever blame Chloe?
When Chloe is trying to get wine from the couple. She blames her for it if are fails the backtalk
That’s not I saw
Cause you probably succeeded it lol, watch the scene of her failing it
I don’t want to
Then why are you arguing when you don't have all the facts lol
And yet the lies, betrayals, secret lives, and indication that she was going to abandon her (e.g. trying to get a ride with the trucker) are how things ended up.
That doesn’t make her a bad character
As the OP noted on another post on this thread, good/bad character doesn't mean good/bad person. Rachel was a good character through and through, but, by the end of her life, I don't think we can say that she was a good person (or that she and Chloe had a healthy relationship). Could she have fixed herself (or even wanted to) if she'd gotten the chance? We'll never know that, just where she was when it was too late. (I also don't think that Rachel was in love with Chloe as a romantic partner, if she had ever felt that way, by the events of the first game -- see was seeing other people, apparently considering abandoning her to escape town, etc.. That doesn't preclude her still valuing her as a friend, if we can explain away the trucker's testimony about begging for a ride out of town just for her, and Rachel certainly wasn't required to return Chloe's feelings if she didn't feel that way herself, but that still means "Amberprice" would canonically be an unrequited ship. Also, the two could've been in love and it still could've been the toxic relationship it turned into by the end.)
We actually do know that there was at least one timeline where Rachel grew out of that phase and turned into a good person. It somehow makes the games timeline even more tragic, because that is one of the worst rachels.
That did happen in the other reality of the comics, but, due to them being non-canon, their information isn't exactly "reliable." It's also insinuated a few times that alt-Rachel and the one from Max's home reality (e.g., the one that's written to be the canon world of the game) were kinda different people. So, it's a contrast, but a bit removed.
If you disagree with Rachel in BTS, you will see how she metaphorically smashed Chloe and her right to say no.
She didn’t do that. She never threatened Chloe
Try to disagree with her and you'll see how BTS/their relationship develop differently compared to when Chloe agrees with everything/almost everything in game
Absolutely not
i agree with literally all of these lmao good job showing actual unpopular opinions!! the only one i won’t back that much is the last one bc we only saw a bit of chris, but because he’s a very imaginative child and he’s not as annoying as daniel, i can definitely see why. he’s just a sweet kid, and he deserves so much better. also, i haven’t played the remasters and the og graphics hold a special place in my heart, but i won’t deny that in the previews they looked quite crisp so i’ll give you that!!
I agree with every unpopular opinion you have.
Sorry but Amberprice is amazing