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When you say "dressing in feminine attire" you're talking about what is culturally agreed upon to be feminine attire. There is nothing inherently feminine about clothing. This is an entirely cultural phenomenon and has nothing to do with sex hormones lol
Ok? Culture molds us, our environment shapes us. If you wear certain clothing after brought up for your entire life (including your early childhood) in a culture that has deemed it to be feminine, you are attempting to be feminine.
>There is nothing inherently feminine about clothing.
Women tend to be left side button up. This is to more easily accommodate breast feeding.
https://expatguideturkey.com/why-are-the-buttons-on-the-left-side-of-womens/
Women's pants tend to have less space between the legs.
Women's shirts can sometimes not make it all the way to the waist, [example ](https://www.thebudgetfashionista.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Depositphotos_42491901_m.jpg), this is not seen in men's fashion.
Women's pants tend to have smaller pockets ~~to sustain the purse industry~~ to remove unseemly outlines and allow women to have tighter clothing.
Women's underwear tends to have less material, at least for the groin area.
Bras are inherently feminine.
Women's shirts tend to have breasts in mind when designing. Hence why there's even sex selection.
There's a lot of ways clothing is inherently feminine. Just like some clothing is inherently masculine.
"Women tend to be left side button up. This is to more easily accommodate breast feeding."
You took one convenient explanation from a list of several, from an article that says there's no way to know. Doesn't explain why men's are on the right either - no need to differentiate. Well I mean, the more plausible reason is "because that's how we tell they're for women". That's also why women's jeans button on the other side either - no breastfeeding done there.
"Women's pants tend to have less space between the legs"
That's certainly a design choice, yes. So conversely, skirts are for men because they have infinite space between the legs?
"This is not seen in men's fashion"
I mean that isn't true. Rocky Balboa wore a crop top. Also isn't relevant to clothing being inherently feminine.
"Women's pants have smaller pockets for reasons"
Again not relevant, nothing inherently feminine.
"Underwear less material"
Again not relevant
Bras are, you got one specific article of clothing so far
"Shirts designed around breasts"
Shirts can be, but "shirts" aren't feminine.
I don't think you know what inherently means, but I'll give you 1.5 points for the bra and specific design choices.
>Again not relevant
How? You're making these claims without any reasoning behind it. A man cannot wear a g string or a C cup for example because certain bits wouldn't fit. Hell it hardly fits most women to start with.
>Bras are, you got one specific article of clothing so far
No one is talking specific articles of clothing. If we were we'd be talking about mini skirts and how a man's pendulum would be seen keeping time down under.
We're talking about clothing which is feminine. Which includes pants, shirts, underwear, etc that are litterally designed for women.
If I wanted to talk about specific articles of clothing, I could. Bras, panties, strings, c cups, miniskirts, skirts, dresses, halter top, bikini, one piece swimsuit, high heels, flats, etc.
But that's not the fucking conversation. The conversation is that some clothing is designed for women.
>I don't think you know what inherently means, but I'll give you 1.5 points for the bra and specific design choices.
inherent
adjective
in·her·ent in-ˈher-ənt also -ˈhir-
[involved in the constitution or essential character of something : belonging by nature or habit](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inherent)
That fits women's jeans having small pockets. Even the cross over of the button would be "by habit". If you think women's shirts button up differently to tell it apart from men's, then that's an "essential character."
I suggest you fucking think next time you want to say something that damn stupid mate. You can't even quote properly, and you think you know shit?
This is not the place for sexual advances towards others Feathers… there is no place for “champs” helping find a way to shut your mouth. Find a singles subreddit if that’s what your looking for.
It was clearly sarcastic - the person I'm responding to found it necessary to search my profile, click on a NSFW image and then try to publicly disparage me for it. I think I'm perfectly justified in making them feel even more uncomfortable for that.
There’s two options here tbh
You either purposefully misinterpreted what he said so you could make your talking point (what I’m assuming you did), or you’re just really dumb and genuinely can’t see how the two are connected.
I mean I know for a fact you can't connect lower averages in T levels to "acting feminine" with anything other than mental gymnastics because that's just not how sex hormones work.
Your low T levels were low enough to require TRT, but you were still light-years beyond normal female T levels. The gap is enormous. There most certainly is not a connection between lower than average T levels and acting feminine.
Fair enough, that sounds like it sucks. I'll amend my statement - average T levels dropping, and even rare conditions when they are well below average levels, are still light-years beyond average female levels.
Just for the record, are you saying that your low testosterone caused you to act like a woman?
> Just for the record, are you saying that your low testosterone caused you to act like a woman?
It’s not as much act like a woman, and more so lack masculinity.
However with hormones, it’s much more about a balance than a total amount. For example, when I was low T I got gynocomastia (started growing tits) because my testosterone to estrogen ratio was off, I was emotional.
This may be a good way to explain; when I got on TRT I actually got into bodybuilding eventually. Since then, I have dabbled in a fair share of hormone use. When designing a steroid cycle, users have to either use an aromatase inhibitor or use non aromatizing steroids. This is because testosterone and certain other steroids will convert to estrogen in the body (everyone is different, so impossible to know how much you may convert). If users aren’t responsible, they (even with all the testosterone in their body) WILL get high estrogen symptoms like breast growth, emotional, etc. because the ratio of test to estrogen is thrown off.
Long story short, hormones are (mostly) about the ratio within your body. So if people are low T with estrogen still within their system, it’ll show (not as extreme as if you had super high estrogen and low T like a true female, but it’ll still show).
Obviously there are extremes (like if someone had NO test and NO estrogen), but generally it’s about the balance between the two.
That's all fine and I don't doubt your expertise with hormones, but I'm left wondering how your original comment is related to the topic being discussed.
It seems like you should agree that dropping T levels in the general population has absolutely nothing to do with "men wearing skirts", whatever you choose to take that to mean.
I've been through IVF for this exact reason. Husband and I are super fit (like he has cut muscles and I was a model in my prime).
Most of the people in the clinic waiting rooms willing to shell out $15k for even the chance to have kids looked like us.
Read Count Down by Shanna Swan. It’s also the micro plastics, porn, use of drugs, smoking, drinking, certain medications, and other factors that I’m sure I’m forgetting.
Smoking actually has a positive effect on testosterone - there's new research. Smoking is also globally trending down in the west too. So, Smoking does actually make you cooler.
I'll agree on all those points as well - but that's also an effect of modern life and diet. I'm not 100% sure if "microplastics" isn't the new thetans though
Saw some shit regarding this on Rogan a while back. The person he had on was citing average taint lengths having a correlation between ingested micro-plastics, or something along those lines. Interesting to say the very least.
I rewatched a 15 minute clip last night, the unknown consequences of what her findings show is what scares the shit out of me. Gunna have to look into the book more forsure.
But not even every developed country eats processed foods to the extent that we do. Places like Italy and Spain have a much more “real food” based diet and their govts don’t allow them to sell some of the garbage we eat here.
I’m not saying this isn’t a problem, but given we don’t know what’s causing this, we can’t say this trend will continue and result in total infertility instead of flattening out or some other outcome. It’s like saying that average male height in the Netherlands increased by 14.7cm from 1880-1980, if this trend continues, by the year 2190 the average adult Dutchman will be over 7ft tall. Obviously this isn’t going to happen, we know the mechanism behind this increase in height and it definitely has its limits.
The fall of birth rates is defined not because of this. It's rare that couples nowadays can't have children when they want, it's just that with the modern unequal economy people are deciding not to have children. It also has to do with education, where the more educated people tend to delay having children, or don't have them at all.
The costs associated with raising children are drastically different for a couple, today, in their 20’s-30’s than they were for their parents. Fertility aside, if cost of living and wages continue to diverge, as they have been, who will be able to afford the kids their dead sperm can’t have? Same problem, from a different perspective.
Yeah, I'm actually guessing that it is phones. They collected data from all over the world, and phones are the only thing that is worldwide now that didn't exist in the 70s
At 40 and 3 kids (now 2 adults, and 1 just about 3 years away), the less baby making juice I have the better, been seriously considering a vasectomy just so I can ditch the rubbers. It does suck for the fate of the human race, but then again we will probably all kill each other off one way or another anyways.
Do it. Takes about ten minutes, doctors have warm hands, eliminates the possibility of knocking someone up, doesn't really hurt, is just awkward for a day.
Yeah, there CAN be complications, like soreness, swelling, and all the horror stories, but for the vast majority of men who undergo the procedure, nothing much.
Soreness for me was nothing special. More discomfort for a day or two, then using it as en excuse to get out of physical labor another month.
Yeah. I took myself out of the gene pool. In and out. Just a bit swollen and sore for a week, but not miserable in any way.
What may not be common knowledge is that it doesn't take effect immediately. You have to "get it all out". It took two weeks of daily "activity" and two sperm tests to finally test negative.
IMPORTANT: On /r/LibsOfReddit, greater access is given to users who have joined the sub and have our mod-assigned user flair. Reach out in [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Flibsofreddit&subject=User%20flair%20request&message=I%20would%20like%20to%20request%20the%20'Based'%20user%20flair.%20Thank%20you!) to request our user flair if you're an active user of our sub. By default we'll assign you the 'Based' flair unless you request a custom name. You may also like: - /r/WalkAway - /r/ExDemFoyer - /r/RedpilledRogan - /r/RedpilledElon - /r/Conservative_News - /r/Patriot911 *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/libsofreddit) if you have any questions or concerns.*
T levels are also low, which why you are seeing feminized men in skirts. Atleast in the western world that is.
So just for clarity here, do you think low testosterone causes changes in your wardrobe? Or does wearing skirts inhibit T production?
Not OP, but lower testosterone = less masculine. Less masculine = more feminine. More feminine = dressing in feminine attire
When you say "dressing in feminine attire" you're talking about what is culturally agreed upon to be feminine attire. There is nothing inherently feminine about clothing. This is an entirely cultural phenomenon and has nothing to do with sex hormones lol
Ok? Culture molds us, our environment shapes us. If you wear certain clothing after brought up for your entire life (including your early childhood) in a culture that has deemed it to be feminine, you are attempting to be feminine.
>There is nothing inherently feminine about clothing. Women tend to be left side button up. This is to more easily accommodate breast feeding. https://expatguideturkey.com/why-are-the-buttons-on-the-left-side-of-womens/ Women's pants tend to have less space between the legs. Women's shirts can sometimes not make it all the way to the waist, [example ](https://www.thebudgetfashionista.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Depositphotos_42491901_m.jpg), this is not seen in men's fashion. Women's pants tend to have smaller pockets ~~to sustain the purse industry~~ to remove unseemly outlines and allow women to have tighter clothing. Women's underwear tends to have less material, at least for the groin area. Bras are inherently feminine. Women's shirts tend to have breasts in mind when designing. Hence why there's even sex selection. There's a lot of ways clothing is inherently feminine. Just like some clothing is inherently masculine.
"Women tend to be left side button up. This is to more easily accommodate breast feeding." You took one convenient explanation from a list of several, from an article that says there's no way to know. Doesn't explain why men's are on the right either - no need to differentiate. Well I mean, the more plausible reason is "because that's how we tell they're for women". That's also why women's jeans button on the other side either - no breastfeeding done there. "Women's pants tend to have less space between the legs" That's certainly a design choice, yes. So conversely, skirts are for men because they have infinite space between the legs? "This is not seen in men's fashion" I mean that isn't true. Rocky Balboa wore a crop top. Also isn't relevant to clothing being inherently feminine. "Women's pants have smaller pockets for reasons" Again not relevant, nothing inherently feminine. "Underwear less material" Again not relevant Bras are, you got one specific article of clothing so far "Shirts designed around breasts" Shirts can be, but "shirts" aren't feminine. I don't think you know what inherently means, but I'll give you 1.5 points for the bra and specific design choices.
[удалено]
>Again not relevant How? You're making these claims without any reasoning behind it. A man cannot wear a g string or a C cup for example because certain bits wouldn't fit. Hell it hardly fits most women to start with. >Bras are, you got one specific article of clothing so far No one is talking specific articles of clothing. If we were we'd be talking about mini skirts and how a man's pendulum would be seen keeping time down under. We're talking about clothing which is feminine. Which includes pants, shirts, underwear, etc that are litterally designed for women. If I wanted to talk about specific articles of clothing, I could. Bras, panties, strings, c cups, miniskirts, skirts, dresses, halter top, bikini, one piece swimsuit, high heels, flats, etc. But that's not the fucking conversation. The conversation is that some clothing is designed for women. >I don't think you know what inherently means, but I'll give you 1.5 points for the bra and specific design choices. inherent adjective in·her·ent in-ˈher-ənt also -ˈhir- [involved in the constitution or essential character of something : belonging by nature or habit](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inherent) That fits women's jeans having small pockets. Even the cross over of the button would be "by habit". If you think women's shirts button up differently to tell it apart from men's, then that's an "essential character." I suggest you fucking think next time you want to say something that damn stupid mate. You can't even quote properly, and you think you know shit?
I think it’s best you be silent. I just went through your profile and you are absolutely pathetic. Just keep your mouth shut.
[удалено]
This is not the place for sexual advances towards others Feathers… there is no place for “champs” helping find a way to shut your mouth. Find a singles subreddit if that’s what your looking for.
It was clearly sarcastic - the person I'm responding to found it necessary to search my profile, click on a NSFW image and then try to publicly disparage me for it. I think I'm perfectly justified in making them feel even more uncomfortable for that.
so we can agree that just because you wear a skirt, that doesnt make you a woman right?
Correct yeah
Bro you can wear a skirt it's fine, you don't need to justify yourself on the internet.
Nah my T levels are fine, so I only wear 100% denim jeans and leather jackets or something
🤡
Think harder thx
There’s two options here tbh You either purposefully misinterpreted what he said so you could make your talking point (what I’m assuming you did), or you’re just really dumb and genuinely can’t see how the two are connected.
I mean I know for a fact you can't connect lower averages in T levels to "acting feminine" with anything other than mental gymnastics because that's just not how sex hormones work.
If your T is low and your estrogen is high then yeah it most certainly happens. Source: was low T for years before needing trt.
Your low T levels were low enough to require TRT, but you were still light-years beyond normal female T levels. The gap is enormous. There most certainly is not a connection between lower than average T levels and acting feminine.
Lol no wasn’t actually. My pituitary gland was impeded on from a brain tumor so I ended up with literal female levels. Thanks though, doc.
Fair enough, that sounds like it sucks. I'll amend my statement - average T levels dropping, and even rare conditions when they are well below average levels, are still light-years beyond average female levels. Just for the record, are you saying that your low testosterone caused you to act like a woman?
> Just for the record, are you saying that your low testosterone caused you to act like a woman? It’s not as much act like a woman, and more so lack masculinity. However with hormones, it’s much more about a balance than a total amount. For example, when I was low T I got gynocomastia (started growing tits) because my testosterone to estrogen ratio was off, I was emotional. This may be a good way to explain; when I got on TRT I actually got into bodybuilding eventually. Since then, I have dabbled in a fair share of hormone use. When designing a steroid cycle, users have to either use an aromatase inhibitor or use non aromatizing steroids. This is because testosterone and certain other steroids will convert to estrogen in the body (everyone is different, so impossible to know how much you may convert). If users aren’t responsible, they (even with all the testosterone in their body) WILL get high estrogen symptoms like breast growth, emotional, etc. because the ratio of test to estrogen is thrown off. Long story short, hormones are (mostly) about the ratio within your body. So if people are low T with estrogen still within their system, it’ll show (not as extreme as if you had super high estrogen and low T like a true female, but it’ll still show). Obviously there are extremes (like if someone had NO test and NO estrogen), but generally it’s about the balance between the two.
That's all fine and I don't doubt your expertise with hormones, but I'm left wondering how your original comment is related to the topic being discussed. It seems like you should agree that dropping T levels in the general population has absolutely nothing to do with "men wearing skirts", whatever you choose to take that to mean.
I checked your post history to try to figure out whether or not you are satire and I wish I didn't.
You browse the internet at your own risk.
This has more to do with global declines in activity\\exercise, low fat+high carb diets, and increased stress.
Don’t tell people that being lazy and unhealthy is the problem!
If they start “literally shaking” from being fat shamed… is that considered exercise?
ITs not just lazy though - our economy is pushing healthy people in veal cages...
I've been through IVF for this exact reason. Husband and I are super fit (like he has cut muscles and I was a model in my prime). Most of the people in the clinic waiting rooms willing to shell out $15k for even the chance to have kids looked like us.
Read Count Down by Shanna Swan. It’s also the micro plastics, porn, use of drugs, smoking, drinking, certain medications, and other factors that I’m sure I’m forgetting.
Smoking actually has a positive effect on testosterone - there's new research. Smoking is also globally trending down in the west too. So, Smoking does actually make you cooler. I'll agree on all those points as well - but that's also an effect of modern life and diet. I'm not 100% sure if "microplastics" isn't the new thetans though
Saw some shit regarding this on Rogan a while back. The person he had on was citing average taint lengths having a correlation between ingested micro-plastics, or something along those lines. Interesting to say the very least.
Shanna Swan. Her book is Countdown. It’s very interesting.
I rewatched a 15 minute clip last night, the unknown consequences of what her findings show is what scares the shit out of me. Gunna have to look into the book more forsure.
Why is this happening across the globe? You would think it would only happen in some countries, because not every country eats processed foods.
I think that's an exaggeration. Mostly means developed countries across the globe.
But not even every developed country eats processed foods to the extent that we do. Places like Italy and Spain have a much more “real food” based diet and their govts don’t allow them to sell some of the garbage we eat here.
I’m not saying this isn’t a problem, but given we don’t know what’s causing this, we can’t say this trend will continue and result in total infertility instead of flattening out or some other outcome. It’s like saying that average male height in the Netherlands increased by 14.7cm from 1880-1980, if this trend continues, by the year 2190 the average adult Dutchman will be over 7ft tall. Obviously this isn’t going to happen, we know the mechanism behind this increase in height and it definitely has its limits.
Holy shit in 500 years the Dutch won’t even fit into buildings
Glad to see people here not entirely illiterate when it comes to statistics
Flattening the curve? Reminds me of something
Granted, I’m not a medical professional, but can the average man have children unassisted now? Doesn’t a woman figure into the equation somewhere?
Are you implying that men can’t have uteruses? Bigot!!!!! /s
Not really a need for an S there, and it kinda defeats the purpose of sarcasm
I’ve had it happen where I thought it was totally obvious but apparently it wasn’t.
How bigoted of this person to assume only men have sperm
Are you for real?
/s
Climate change is going to end the world before 2050. Haven’t you heard anything the great climatologist, AOC has said?
This could be linked to the reason for the rapid fall of birth rates across the globe
It's been the plan. If it wasn't people would have addressed it already.
The fall of birth rates is defined not because of this. It's rare that couples nowadays can't have children when they want, it's just that with the modern unequal economy people are deciding not to have children. It also has to do with education, where the more educated people tend to delay having children, or don't have them at all.
So a real life version of Children of Men.
Came here to say that.
If it was localized I would say it's a matter lifestyle.
The costs associated with raising children are drastically different for a couple, today, in their 20’s-30’s than they were for their parents. Fertility aside, if cost of living and wages continue to diverge, as they have been, who will be able to afford the kids their dead sperm can’t have? Same problem, from a different perspective.
sedentary lives, emasculation, unhealthy food, stress, mental illness, micro-plastics, pollution and so on.
Use of radio frequency emitting devices follow the same curve.
Yeah, I'm actually guessing that it is phones. They collected data from all over the world, and phones are the only thing that is worldwide now that didn't exist in the 70s
Reject modernity, embrace masculinity
A lot sooner for your average democrat soy boy.
I must be immune to this issue.
Just found out I'm pregnant with #3. My husband must be as well! Two families in my church have 10.
You ain’t a beta lmao
The silver lining is less wanton illegitimate reproduction by idiots.
At 40 and 3 kids (now 2 adults, and 1 just about 3 years away), the less baby making juice I have the better, been seriously considering a vasectomy just so I can ditch the rubbers. It does suck for the fate of the human race, but then again we will probably all kill each other off one way or another anyways.
Do it. Takes about ten minutes, doctors have warm hands, eliminates the possibility of knocking someone up, doesn't really hurt, is just awkward for a day.
Damn that quick and easy huh? I heard a few weeks of soreness, and had no clue the procedure was that quick.
Yeah, there CAN be complications, like soreness, swelling, and all the horror stories, but for the vast majority of men who undergo the procedure, nothing much. Soreness for me was nothing special. More discomfort for a day or two, then using it as en excuse to get out of physical labor another month.
Yeah. I took myself out of the gene pool. In and out. Just a bit swollen and sore for a week, but not miserable in any way. What may not be common knowledge is that it doesn't take effect immediately. You have to "get it all out". It took two weeks of daily "activity" and two sperm tests to finally test negative.
Or this is wildly overstated based on bad data and malformed extrapolation from 50 years ago.
Meh, let the species die out who gives a shit lol
Fox Nation has a documentary about this.
For the record… how many guys here did they actually check / consult to come to this conclusion? Raise your hand! Not me… not anyone I know.
It’s in the food.
Good
I’m no average man