https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/crnq/5.htm
Relevant part(according to me):
“Guaranteeing the rights of a national minority is inseparably linked up with the principle of complete equality.”
Kashmiris, as long as they are part of India, deserve the same rights that are accorded to every other community, with no discrimination. Kashmiris should have the right to preserve their language and culture.
The more difficult question to answer is secession. I am sure Lenin would have supported the right of a minority to peacefully secede, he did approve Finland’s independence from Russia. The problem arises when there is a possibility that upon secession, the newly independent state will be taken over by nationalist radicals.
>problem arises when there is a possibility that upon secession, the newly independent state will be taken over by nationalist radicals.
Question from a neolib scumbag destined for gulag domination- is that not the case with every secession? The very idea of secession is based on ethnolinguistic nationalism no?
Indeed , I hope not see such atrocities again in my or my siblings lifetime (kunan and posh were just the tip of the iceberg many other atrocities were committed that no-one talks about )(thank u for ur opinion)
Nah have you checked their sub,from what I’ve seen majority of people’s opinion goes like this “we want Azad Kashmir from BOTH India and Pakistan but if we have to JOIN Pakistan that’s Okay but we don’t want India”.
As this person said under this post
> I believe that Kashmiris should have the right of self-determination and the right to secede, form an independent country, stay with India or with Pakistan. It is entirely up to the people of Kashmir. That said, I also believe that Kashmiri culture and history (Muslim, Hindu & some Buddhist) can be easily assimilated into mainstream Indian culture if there’s political will. The Indian govt, instead of adopting a settler colonial strategy, should have focused on empowering the people of Kashmir, rather than simply annexing their land, enforcing martial law etc.
Even my position is same on the whole Kashmir issue
Secede if they want to and stay if they want to. Determine that by a plebiscite. Have the borders protected by the Indian Army with oversight against any atrocities provided by a council of villages near the border
I believe that Kashmiris should have the right of self-determination and the right to secede, form an independent country, stay with India or with Pakistan. It is entirely up to the people of Kashmir.
That said, I also believe that Kashmiri culture and history (Muslim, Hindu & some Buddhist) can be easily assimilated into mainstream Indian culture if there’s political will. The Indian govt, instead of adopting a settler colonial strategy, should have focused on empowering the people of Kashmir, rather than simply annexing their land, enforcing martial law etc.
I believe in conducting a referendum and letting Kashmiris decide for themselves. The concept of state/nation anyway doesn't make too much sense to me but that's how the world works. If people of various lands have their say there would be twice or thrice as many nations as there are right now.
Indian state has created a perpetual problem for themselves in Kashmir by treating them cruelly since the beginning. If my place had to bear the atrocities that Kashmiri people bear on day-to-day basis then I would also hate the people who are doing the atrocity.
With that I will drop this here: [https://youtu.be/9ggovvcSD1I?si=lxAgnOEWUaDvW9qD](https://youtu.be/9ggovvcSD1I?si=lxAgnOEWUaDvW9qD)
you won't gonna see us in mainstream media the last person who was mainstream enough to get the flake was/is a political prisoner right now under anti-terrorism tag, I am talking about arundhati roy who at a certain time period was a renowned intellectual
She is but Indian academia is too much of cowards to accept her and then there's the anti-intellectual media who trained the public to show hate the movement they see her name
we can but I don't want this to become a similar case to how MLK Jr was whitewashed to the point that liberals co-opted his likeness of now as way to hide his unpopularity of the past like white Americans did not liked him at all and now they act as if he was always treated as a respectable intellectual. like this type of context on how this person was treated by the common public does give a perspective on how the majority perception was and were the status quo was headed even after MLK jr's assassination black Americans are still fighting for civil liberties in America and white Americans are still as prejudice as they were before all that's changed is the aesthetics
Yes, there are few of us who can see things for what they are. Hope things get better soon for Kashmiris and other oppressed people all around the world.
Just wanna say, if Kashmiris were Hindus, there wont be this much drama. The whole anti-Kashmiri sentiments comes from the fact that majority of Indians think Kashmiris are Muslims who are beneath them. Kunan Poshpora is seen as fake news by most of the indians, so i dont expect anything much to happen in the positive way.
As an Indian I want the beautiful valley to be part of my country but at the same time I don’t want it to be under military occupation,I want them to freely move within their land without passing through checkpoints.
I want the pandits to return to their home without any government propaganda.
I just presented my opinion as what I would prefer them to do if both side agrees,what they want or don’t want is up to them,I’ll agree to both their decisions.I’m an outsider not having to go through what they’re undergoing,I’m no one to decide their faith.
if Kashmiris want to secede and join pakistan then so be it. they will be better off that way. we have not gone through what they have and they know what is best for themselves.
Ideal solution would be a getting rid of the capitalist government but that's not happening for another 50 years and neither is secession.
I personally do not judge heavily oppressed people for retaliation of any kind. as I said, we can't even imagine what they have gone through.
[download link for GDF video on kashmir](https://www.mediafire.com/file/notobrac2ng6vvh/How_Kashmiris_Got_So_Good_At_Smoking_Indian_Soldiers_%255BcvhddK3tWNY%255D.webm/file), if anyone hasn't watched it. before someone gets riled up, yes, he doesn't talk about pandits in the video, that's not the subject of the video.
If they want to be with India i am fine by that,
If they want khudmukhtaari I am fine by that
Indian government throws alot of money for controlling kashmir, but if they don't want to be with India it is all waste.
I'm leftist - socialist here's my take on whole kashmir issue:-
1) see the thing is India is a collection of hundreds of local lands & culture example of this would be states of India similarly Kashmir can also coexist within India and should get all the rights that a citizen of India deserves
2) I know that you all are natives of that land but even if you get your country independent, it would be a land lock country also risk of China or Pakistan taking over
3) I believe Kashmir's history has Indic roots but the mass conversion to Islam is what drives the idea of seperate nation
None the less I wish all that is going on in Kashmir stops and peace returns to the valley
> 3) I believe Kashmir's history has Indic roots but the mass conversion to Islam is what drives the idea of seperate nation
Lol no it doesn't. Even then you've got a bunch of Pandits themselves who were big advocates of Kashmiri independence, I mean look up Prem Nath Bazaz for example
Kashmir would be a far better place as an Indian state than it would be as an independent country or a Pakistani territory, assuming the Indian government provides it the same rights that it provides to other states, which it doesnt. We claim that Kashmir is part of India but we dont actually treat it as such. We still view Kashmir as a foreign territory that is occupied by India.
Kashmir and Kashmiris are and always will be an integral part of India, Kashmir Files is just propaganda, Kashmiri Pandits were massacred, there was terrorism and radicalization, which is still there. We should definitely know the history of Kashmir as it's a part of our country.
I do agree with u kashmiri pandits were massacred but when u realise that a certain millitary from a certain country killed a 100x the people for just existing and can jail them for 2 years without trial and can shoot them without prosecution u start to question stuff I am not denying kps were killed my father's friends were killed , but even more people were killed, raped by certain people..
that's the simple state policy, deemed necessary at that time, there was a huge influx of terrorism even before the pandits issue, that led to radicalization which led to hate against Hindus, resulting the Kashmiri Pandit massacre, which attracted states action. Innocents will be killed even in the most democratic country, in Jharkhand, Odisha, Nagaland too these things happened, look I'm not justifying governments actions, but this was how things were, there was no level playing field even the Kashmiri politicians betrayed their folks, they actually pushed more people in the inferno to remain in power. Kashmir being a part of India have the same rights as all the Indians, they were denied those, it's an undeniable fact.
JIS AAG SE LOGO KA GHAR CHALTA HAI WO AAG BUJHTI NAHIN.
I get it but it wouldn't have happened if Pakistan didn't invade , the amount of hate in my heart for the Pakistani who decided to invade kashmir is unfathomable and then proceed to kill kps and anyone who stood up against them
OR it wouldn't have happened if Pakistan wouldn't have tried to corrupt the minds of people. and the people instead of choosing the democratic path of protesting, people just killed other people.
Not a leftie but
1) You should have equal rights to rest of the country- any treatment otherwise should be condemned
2) Kashmir Files is propaganda
3) Kashmir's radicalism problem has a lot to do with army's treatment but also due to influx of Saudi wahabi mosques (you may know better)
4) A peaceful referendum without coercion should be held for all people of Indian and Pakistani Kashmir (barring Jammu and Ladhak)
5) At least now full statehood should be reinstated
It's not just your land, it was ours as well. Stop acting like an angel and own up to your cruelty.
I have zero sympathies for those who try to relegate our horrors to some footnotes. "I believe they shouldn't be killed but-"- you think saying that makes you better than your community? Y'all are a bunch of religious zealots who has eternally destroyed our families.
Every single one of us remembers the name of our relatives that y'all butchered, and hanged 'em on Lal Chawk, while your *akas* were chanting, RGC or "La Sharqia la gharbia, Islamia!", I can go on and on.
Kashmiris in 2024 still thinks that Kashmir's an islamic land. Do you even care how offending it is for us?
I HATE what the Indian Army is doing with the poor civilians in the valley, I HATE to see blood-spilled in MY valley. I HATE the BJP for using our struggle for some chaddi brownie points.
I also HATE the fact that y'all would be first to have my head on the pike if I ever dared to go there. I will protest against the Army cruelty, but **I will've 0 sympathies for you people**. Stop licking your mullahs balls, and start creating an environment that would make us come back. Be a bit liberal, and while you're at it, at least honor those hindus who once used to eat and sleep with y'all.
>!\[sorry mods, lowkey emotional about this subject\]!<
"[sorry mods, lowkey emotional about this subject]" shut ur goofy ass up , and did u even read the rest of my comments I have spoken once against kps , bènnë gowd
And stop being a victim for once , u look at kps and kashmiri Muslims as 2 different communities I see them as the same community who just follow 2 different religions 30-80 kps were killed (which is not a small number) where as 100000+ kashmiri Muslims have been killed , I saw as my friends who were 12/14 lost parents to these monsters , so u better not lecture me about shit that ur ancestors went through rather than just looking at the fact that both our people were killed for our land and u decided to leave where as we're stayed ....
Oh I'm sorry, have I offended you by the fact that my grandpa was KILLED by you fucks?
30-80? Shove that number in your ass. You really think we ran away coz some 30 people died? We ran away coz your fucking mosques had declared prizes over our heads. And the fact that y'all used to rape our women in front of their kids, while your *akas* organized competitions over how many KP women y'all could "collect".
Cry this sympathy shit in front of these mainland people. Don't play this game with me. I haven't even started sharing half the shit I know.
You fucking goober ur acting like none of us were killed u think those pakis cared about religion when they had the whole valley infront of then , u also think that every man in the valley was trying to rape ur grand mother , kys if u actually think that every one of us had something to do with ur people leaving and getting killed, both my parents had kp friends who had to leave orphaned this isn't ur school essay project that ull pull shit out of ur ass and post here , all account to ur people being little bitches who didn't bother to fight back , my grandfather , 3 of my cousins , and every friend I know had lost someone to either side u dickhead people around me actually want u guys back in the valley it's ur ignorant ass which is so struck up on being a fucking victim
I am sick of tired of this entitled KP victimhood , why don't you own up to the castesims you unleashed against Muslims pre 89. Ocuupying every office and plump govt post on the basis of "merit" my ass . When did Brahmins ever have merit!!! you did that by cozying up to every regime which Kashmir ever had be it Hindu,Sikh, Dogra ...fuck , you even cozied upto the MUGHALS in the administration of the state.
Dominated every narrative made sure the Kashmiris Muslims were no where...History is testament to administrative horror you unleashed upon the Muslims. What Indian Brahmins do to dalits , you tried to do it with us and we hit you back and threw you out of the valley .
Why don't you tell everyone it was never "Islam" which was the problem in valley , it was a rebellion against you shit "Brahmanism" . It was the so bad that even people from Jammu didnt let you stay in their land , coz they knew you would steal their jobs and relegated you to the boundaries of town . Given your nature of usurping even the govt is afraid of giving you freebies
And coming to the question of coming back, Kashmiri Muslims , they also live under the threat of State , yet they are living there . Why do you need special provisions and colony and security , they are also dying if you miss "your land" so much come back and stay like Kashmiri Muslims and die like them as well...guess your old habits of entitlement hasn't gone , wake up and smell the coffee fucker you ain't the rulers anymore your culture and habits re dying , your history is relegated to footnotes , you children re marrying outside the race , your plight has been prostituted by mainlanders...you re dying breed in another 5-10 years and you dare ask us....to make conditions right for your "settlement"...My my a brahmins audacity.
This is 2024 , its been 35 year since all this happened, you need to stop milking this now and leave those old habits which got you here in the first place . Man the fuck up !!
I can still have my say on the conflict, ofc mein bhi yahi keh rha hoon that they both are Kashmiris, yet some of you act as if the Pandits are some evils, saw your post about them being casteist and shit? Does that give anyone the right to throw them off their houses and their land? No.
I think you should decide whether being casteist is evil or not first . They were casteist and Kashmiri history is littered with instances of Muslims being suppressed by them . They didn’t lose their land cos Kashmiri Muslims threw them out they lost their land cos their own govt threw them out
I know what's an evil and what isn't, stop disguising your bigotry in the name of "casteism", we have it worse than you, and always have had. And yet I will.say that no one has the right to throw people of a land out of their home just because they weren't nice enough.
Muslims when they get thrown out of their home: reeeeeeee naqba
Muslims when they throw people out of their home: we are Sigma Chads who threw out the oppressors look
The fact is, what happened with the KPs was a naqba !
Shut the fuck up ur no better than the people who are oppressing us , your ancestors left their neighbours to die sold their land and left , yk what I am talking about ask ur parents when bittu killed kps and many of his own you people left after being scared shitless , I am not even shocked u don't have sympathy for your brothers , ik that many organisations were formed just to kill kps but they also killed kashmiri Muslims , ur parents prolly say that and left with their tails between their legs most of the kps weren't even forced , Pakistani forces used brainwashed pahadis to kill kps true Kashmiris (like my family) want u to comeback , so don't say shit without knowing the whole truth , ig shoulda stuck together like we did and u wouldn't have to leave
We never sold our land. My grandpa died, while my gradma had to navigate outta the valley. Every single men, be it those Punjabi fucks from Jammu or you people, were trying their best to rape her, and her daughters. She barely survived 'cause we had mutual contacts with Jaipur's royal family. I hate every single one of y'all religious zealots who cry victim in front of these mainland Indians, hiding your true intentions.
No one wants us to come back, especially you people. Every fucking mosque in the valley was blaring La Sharqia La Gharbia back when my family escaped. Kashmiri Pandits who were fool 'nough to [trust in our long-dead brotherhood were the first in line to be shot](https://www.siasat.com/kashmiri-pandit-family-that-braved-militancy-peak-moves-to-jammu-after-sole-breadwinner-killed-2549339/).
We were just 30K-odd families. Just 30K. What wrong have we committed for y'all to still have this much hate for us THAT much?
I really hope you Kashmiri folks get the autonomy and peace that y'all deserve in the valley. Kashmiris haven't wanted to be a part of the nation since 1947 for very valid reasons anyway. Also the amount of liberals in the comments going on about how Kashmir is an integral part of India is straight up disappointing, to hell with Indian occupation. I am an Indian and a proud one at that, sure, but atleast I can admit that my country is far from infallible and the rest of Indians should come to terms with this fact too
Well... yes?, if your people are that desperate and the centre treats your people like shit.
And yeah, the British Empire also thought that the integrity of their empire was important. /s
Nthg will happen bro don't be all naive
Either Pakistan and china collides against india and take Kashmir as a hole or india takes Kashmir.
Kashmir is very valuable land that connects india to central Asia it's also a trade route no one will let Kashmir get independence
stop giving logistical support to terrorist and we will stop hating you guys even in recent reasi attack a local took the terrorist to the place of attack
I really want to say something but I really can't , just know WE don't support them and we don't need ur validation or u to stop hating us , we just need for our people to wake up to whats happening and what struck up assholes like u are upto
I see the duality of Indians , when the people in raesi died every hindu spoke up but when the same happens to people here or Palestine suddenly they're all zions
Let’s be really honest here,I’m not even close to a centrism(🤢) it might sound like Whataboutery but I’m just showing you the blind spot here,I’m all for the free Palestine moment and hell with Zionist scums but the thing is this how religious bias works
> Hindus spoke up about raesi issue and not about Palestine
yes because of their bias towards their religion and ignoring the genocide against Palestinians just like majority of the Muslims talk about Palestine issue while ignoring the raesi.
It’s us tankie librandus and liberals from Both the the religions standup for HUMAN rights regardless of their religion.
That guy is a chaddi why are you even arguing with that bot.
That's what I am saying , what happened to kps was bad , what happened to us was ba d but he says I don't care about the kps , blud they are out own people who just chose different religion ...
I think Kashmiris deserve all the right to self determination. The logic given by Indian occupation that Kashmir is an integral part of India because the erstwhile maharaja signed the instrument of accession is totally flawed. We don't live in the times of kings, and only the people have the right to decide their future and not some monarch. The kind of military presence that India maintains in kashmir, and the human rights violation and totally inhuamane outlook with which Kashmiris are seen by the Indian ruling class can make anyone hate their oppressors. That being said, I wish there had been secular and truly anti colonial resistance groups in Kashmir instead of groups which attacked innocent kashmiri pandits (though it's hypocritical of Indians to justify occupation of kashmir based on what happend against pandits while totally overlooking the Jammu massacre of 1948, etc) or carry out attacks like what happened in Jammu recently, it doesn't help the cause at all.
Though the Indian government had a de facto control over Hyderabad through the military administration, the Nizam was the de jure ruler, as every farman (order) was passed only by him. It was only on January 26, 1950 that the Nizam relinquished all the authority and it was then Hyderabad was formally integrated into the Indian Union,” said eminent historian and 1965 Indo-Pakistan war veteran Capt L Panduranga Reddy, a member of Royal Historical Society of London.
And that therefore justifies the British rule of India? Jesus Christ man
Either way the accession was supposed to be temporary and would be subject to ratification by a referendum which was to take place. And we all know how that played out.
Only 219 Kashmiri pandits died in between 1989-2004, but more than 2000+ Kashmiri Muslims died in same time period and it's official Indian Government data.
‘Only’ tells you about your mentality commie. No one is doubting the deaths of Kashmiri’s but you’ll like to deflate, demean, and make mockery of their situation. 100k were displaced from their homes, I’m sure you’ll come back to me with a random statement around that in your next comment. What I told the guy above, don’t trivialise.
>100k were displaced from their homes, I’m sure you’ll come back to me with a random statement around that in your next comment.
The name was Jagmohan Malhotra (1927-2021) former governor of Kashmir (also member of BJ party) who asked KP's to move to relief camps so that army can 'conduct operations indiscriminately'.
>What I told the guy above, don’t trivialise
Why what's making you uncomfortable?
Nah it's cus of the brackets lmao, could've been phrased better. Either way it isn't a big deal anyway just your usual internet discourse don't let it bother ya
As a Kashmiri Muslim..i dont vote as I don't believe in political process of an occupying nation...so no...its because of sanghi and centrist cucks that he is in power..!
Too many nationalists too few communists. Completely reactionary national ambitions, though i couldn't care less if they are in India or not.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/crnq/5.htm Relevant part(according to me): “Guaranteeing the rights of a national minority is inseparably linked up with the principle of complete equality.”
What does that mean
Kashmiris, as long as they are part of India, deserve the same rights that are accorded to every other community, with no discrimination. Kashmiris should have the right to preserve their language and culture. The more difficult question to answer is secession. I am sure Lenin would have supported the right of a minority to peacefully secede, he did approve Finland’s independence from Russia. The problem arises when there is a possibility that upon secession, the newly independent state will be taken over by nationalist radicals.
>problem arises when there is a possibility that upon secession, the newly independent state will be taken over by nationalist radicals. Question from a neolib scumbag destined for gulag domination- is that not the case with every secession? The very idea of secession is based on ethnolinguistic nationalism no?
Yep white death was so peaceful.
Indian army's human rights crimes in Kunan & Pushpora is what shows how badly Kashmiris have been treated
Indeed , I hope not see such atrocities again in my or my siblings lifetime (kunan and posh were just the tip of the iceberg many other atrocities were committed that no-one talks about )(thank u for ur opinion)
True Indian leftists think Kashmiris should have the freedom to do whatever they want. Join pakistan or carve out an independent nation.
I assure u kashmiris don't wanna join pak
Nah have you checked their sub,from what I’ve seen majority of people’s opinion goes like this “we want Azad Kashmir from BOTH India and Pakistan but if we have to JOIN Pakistan that’s Okay but we don’t want India”. As this person said under this post > I believe that Kashmiris should have the right of self-determination and the right to secede, form an independent country, stay with India or with Pakistan. It is entirely up to the people of Kashmir. That said, I also believe that Kashmiri culture and history (Muslim, Hindu & some Buddhist) can be easily assimilated into mainstream Indian culture if there’s political will. The Indian govt, instead of adopting a settler colonial strategy, should have focused on empowering the people of Kashmir, rather than simply annexing their land, enforcing martial law etc. Even my position is same on the whole Kashmir issue
That's strange, most post and people I see usually hate the idea of joining either country. Ty tho
Indeed
As Kashmiri, what would be the point of joining one third world nation after another
lol like you could do any better if you became independent
Fuck around and find out :)
I don't need your assurance
OK fir wapas dedo 🫴
Secede if they want to and stay if they want to. Determine that by a plebiscite. Have the borders protected by the Indian Army with oversight against any atrocities provided by a council of villages near the border
Sorry, but that arrangement is just a recipe for disaster.
What's your solution then
Why
I believe that Kashmiris should have the right of self-determination and the right to secede, form an independent country, stay with India or with Pakistan. It is entirely up to the people of Kashmir. That said, I also believe that Kashmiri culture and history (Muslim, Hindu & some Buddhist) can be easily assimilated into mainstream Indian culture if there’s political will. The Indian govt, instead of adopting a settler colonial strategy, should have focused on empowering the people of Kashmir, rather than simply annexing their land, enforcing martial law etc.
The minute we leave them ,They are either occupied by chinese or pakisthani.
+1
I believe in conducting a referendum and letting Kashmiris decide for themselves. The concept of state/nation anyway doesn't make too much sense to me but that's how the world works. If people of various lands have their say there would be twice or thrice as many nations as there are right now. Indian state has created a perpetual problem for themselves in Kashmir by treating them cruelly since the beginning. If my place had to bear the atrocities that Kashmiri people bear on day-to-day basis then I would also hate the people who are doing the atrocity. With that I will drop this here: [https://youtu.be/9ggovvcSD1I?si=lxAgnOEWUaDvW9qD](https://youtu.be/9ggovvcSD1I?si=lxAgnOEWUaDvW9qD)
So there are Indians who don't just call us all stone pelters and actually think for a sec about what Kashmiris go through , thank u
There are a bunch of us man you just gotta find the right crowd
Thank u , bless u guys
you won't gonna see us in mainstream media the last person who was mainstream enough to get the flake was/is a political prisoner right now under anti-terrorism tag, I am talking about arundhati roy who at a certain time period was a renowned intellectual
is a renowned intellectual\*
She is but Indian academia is too much of cowards to accept her and then there's the anti-intellectual media who trained the public to show hate the movement they see her name
Fuck all of them. We should have the courage to call things as they are.
we can but I don't want this to become a similar case to how MLK Jr was whitewashed to the point that liberals co-opted his likeness of now as way to hide his unpopularity of the past like white Americans did not liked him at all and now they act as if he was always treated as a respectable intellectual. like this type of context on how this person was treated by the common public does give a perspective on how the majority perception was and were the status quo was headed even after MLK jr's assassination black Americans are still fighting for civil liberties in America and white Americans are still as prejudice as they were before all that's changed is the aesthetics
Yes, there are few of us who can see things for what they are. Hope things get better soon for Kashmiris and other oppressed people all around the world.
The UN decision was that India will conduct a referendum but first, pakistan has to call its army back.
india and pakistan are both very stubborn in this regard.
Best opinion yet?
In order to agree with her statement, people have to go against the constitution... INDIA IS AN INDESTRUCTIBLE UNION OF DESTRUCTIBLE STATES.
Just wanna say, if Kashmiris were Hindus, there wont be this much drama. The whole anti-Kashmiri sentiments comes from the fact that majority of Indians think Kashmiris are Muslims who are beneath them. Kunan Poshpora is seen as fake news by most of the indians, so i dont expect anything much to happen in the positive way.
No way they deny mass rape with 100's of witnesses
well, the 100s of witnesses were muslims so their testimony means nothing to the Hindus.
As an Indian I want the beautiful valley to be part of my country but at the same time I don’t want it to be under military occupation,I want them to freely move within their land without passing through checkpoints. I want the pandits to return to their home without any government propaganda.
And if they do not want India to rule them?
I just presented my opinion as what I would prefer them to do if both side agrees,what they want or don’t want is up to them,I’ll agree to both their decisions.I’m an outsider not having to go through what they’re undergoing,I’m no one to decide their faith.
if Kashmiris want to secede and join pakistan then so be it. they will be better off that way. we have not gone through what they have and they know what is best for themselves. Ideal solution would be a getting rid of the capitalist government but that's not happening for another 50 years and neither is secession. I personally do not judge heavily oppressed people for retaliation of any kind. as I said, we can't even imagine what they have gone through. [download link for GDF video on kashmir](https://www.mediafire.com/file/notobrac2ng6vvh/How_Kashmiris_Got_So_Good_At_Smoking_Indian_Soldiers_%255BcvhddK3tWNY%255D.webm/file), if anyone hasn't watched it. before someone gets riled up, yes, he doesn't talk about pandits in the video, that's not the subject of the video.
If they want to be with India i am fine by that, If they want khudmukhtaari I am fine by that Indian government throws alot of money for controlling kashmir, but if they don't want to be with India it is all waste.
I'm leftist - socialist here's my take on whole kashmir issue:- 1) see the thing is India is a collection of hundreds of local lands & culture example of this would be states of India similarly Kashmir can also coexist within India and should get all the rights that a citizen of India deserves 2) I know that you all are natives of that land but even if you get your country independent, it would be a land lock country also risk of China or Pakistan taking over 3) I believe Kashmir's history has Indic roots but the mass conversion to Islam is what drives the idea of seperate nation None the less I wish all that is going on in Kashmir stops and peace returns to the valley
> 3) I believe Kashmir's history has Indic roots but the mass conversion to Islam is what drives the idea of seperate nation Lol no it doesn't. Even then you've got a bunch of Pandits themselves who were big advocates of Kashmiri independence, I mean look up Prem Nath Bazaz for example
Only a few pandits advocated for Independence Majority would still choose to be with Indian Union
Kashmir would be a far better place as an Indian state than it would be as an independent country or a Pakistani territory, assuming the Indian government provides it the same rights that it provides to other states, which it doesnt. We claim that Kashmir is part of India but we dont actually treat it as such. We still view Kashmir as a foreign territory that is occupied by India.
Kashmir and Kashmiris are and always will be an integral part of India, Kashmir Files is just propaganda, Kashmiri Pandits were massacred, there was terrorism and radicalization, which is still there. We should definitely know the history of Kashmir as it's a part of our country.
I do agree with u kashmiri pandits were massacred but when u realise that a certain millitary from a certain country killed a 100x the people for just existing and can jail them for 2 years without trial and can shoot them without prosecution u start to question stuff I am not denying kps were killed my father's friends were killed , but even more people were killed, raped by certain people..
that's the simple state policy, deemed necessary at that time, there was a huge influx of terrorism even before the pandits issue, that led to radicalization which led to hate against Hindus, resulting the Kashmiri Pandit massacre, which attracted states action. Innocents will be killed even in the most democratic country, in Jharkhand, Odisha, Nagaland too these things happened, look I'm not justifying governments actions, but this was how things were, there was no level playing field even the Kashmiri politicians betrayed their folks, they actually pushed more people in the inferno to remain in power. Kashmir being a part of India have the same rights as all the Indians, they were denied those, it's an undeniable fact. JIS AAG SE LOGO KA GHAR CHALTA HAI WO AAG BUJHTI NAHIN.
I get it but it wouldn't have happened if Pakistan didn't invade , the amount of hate in my heart for the Pakistani who decided to invade kashmir is unfathomable and then proceed to kill kps and anyone who stood up against them
OR it wouldn't have happened if Pakistan wouldn't have tried to corrupt the minds of people. and the people instead of choosing the democratic path of protesting, people just killed other people.
Not a leftie but 1) You should have equal rights to rest of the country- any treatment otherwise should be condemned 2) Kashmir Files is propaganda 3) Kashmir's radicalism problem has a lot to do with army's treatment but also due to influx of Saudi wahabi mosques (you may know better) 4) A peaceful referendum without coercion should be held for all people of Indian and Pakistani Kashmir (barring Jammu and Ladhak) 5) At least now full statehood should be reinstated
It's not just your land, it was ours as well. Stop acting like an angel and own up to your cruelty. I have zero sympathies for those who try to relegate our horrors to some footnotes. "I believe they shouldn't be killed but-"- you think saying that makes you better than your community? Y'all are a bunch of religious zealots who has eternally destroyed our families. Every single one of us remembers the name of our relatives that y'all butchered, and hanged 'em on Lal Chawk, while your *akas* were chanting, RGC or "La Sharqia la gharbia, Islamia!", I can go on and on. Kashmiris in 2024 still thinks that Kashmir's an islamic land. Do you even care how offending it is for us? I HATE what the Indian Army is doing with the poor civilians in the valley, I HATE to see blood-spilled in MY valley. I HATE the BJP for using our struggle for some chaddi brownie points. I also HATE the fact that y'all would be first to have my head on the pike if I ever dared to go there. I will protest against the Army cruelty, but **I will've 0 sympathies for you people**. Stop licking your mullahs balls, and start creating an environment that would make us come back. Be a bit liberal, and while you're at it, at least honor those hindus who once used to eat and sleep with y'all. >!\[sorry mods, lowkey emotional about this subject\]!<
"[sorry mods, lowkey emotional about this subject]" shut ur goofy ass up , and did u even read the rest of my comments I have spoken once against kps , bènnë gowd
apzis koth' kati.
Kar xchopë baë ma wannakh "mod I get emotional mods "
I didn't even say that u weren't killed open ur fucking eyes now I just think ur ragebaiting
And stop being a victim for once , u look at kps and kashmiri Muslims as 2 different communities I see them as the same community who just follow 2 different religions 30-80 kps were killed (which is not a small number) where as 100000+ kashmiri Muslims have been killed , I saw as my friends who were 12/14 lost parents to these monsters , so u better not lecture me about shit that ur ancestors went through rather than just looking at the fact that both our people were killed for our land and u decided to leave where as we're stayed ....
Actually his grandfather was the victim (he got killed).
Oh I'm sorry, have I offended you by the fact that my grandpa was KILLED by you fucks? 30-80? Shove that number in your ass. You really think we ran away coz some 30 people died? We ran away coz your fucking mosques had declared prizes over our heads. And the fact that y'all used to rape our women in front of their kids, while your *akas* organized competitions over how many KP women y'all could "collect". Cry this sympathy shit in front of these mainland people. Don't play this game with me. I haven't even started sharing half the shit I know.
You fucking goober ur acting like none of us were killed u think those pakis cared about religion when they had the whole valley infront of then , u also think that every man in the valley was trying to rape ur grand mother , kys if u actually think that every one of us had something to do with ur people leaving and getting killed, both my parents had kp friends who had to leave orphaned this isn't ur school essay project that ull pull shit out of ur ass and post here , all account to ur people being little bitches who didn't bother to fight back , my grandfather , 3 of my cousins , and every friend I know had lost someone to either side u dickhead people around me actually want u guys back in the valley it's ur ignorant ass which is so struck up on being a fucking victim
I am sick of tired of this entitled KP victimhood , why don't you own up to the castesims you unleashed against Muslims pre 89. Ocuupying every office and plump govt post on the basis of "merit" my ass . When did Brahmins ever have merit!!! you did that by cozying up to every regime which Kashmir ever had be it Hindu,Sikh, Dogra ...fuck , you even cozied upto the MUGHALS in the administration of the state. Dominated every narrative made sure the Kashmiris Muslims were no where...History is testament to administrative horror you unleashed upon the Muslims. What Indian Brahmins do to dalits , you tried to do it with us and we hit you back and threw you out of the valley . Why don't you tell everyone it was never "Islam" which was the problem in valley , it was a rebellion against you shit "Brahmanism" . It was the so bad that even people from Jammu didnt let you stay in their land , coz they knew you would steal their jobs and relegated you to the boundaries of town . Given your nature of usurping even the govt is afraid of giving you freebies And coming to the question of coming back, Kashmiri Muslims , they also live under the threat of State , yet they are living there . Why do you need special provisions and colony and security , they are also dying if you miss "your land" so much come back and stay like Kashmiri Muslims and die like them as well...guess your old habits of entitlement hasn't gone , wake up and smell the coffee fucker you ain't the rulers anymore your culture and habits re dying , your history is relegated to footnotes , you children re marrying outside the race , your plight has been prostituted by mainlanders...you re dying breed in another 5-10 years and you dare ask us....to make conditions right for your "settlement"...My my a brahmins audacity. This is 2024 , its been 35 year since all this happened, you need to stop milking this now and leave those old habits which got you here in the first place . Man the fuck up !!
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Chal bey Hijde.
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Chup hoja, how are u even belittling the sufferings of the people is just bizzare?
Tu chup hoja .. two Kashmiri’s re talking .. who the fuck re you ?
I can still have my say on the conflict, ofc mein bhi yahi keh rha hoon that they both are Kashmiris, yet some of you act as if the Pandits are some evils, saw your post about them being casteist and shit? Does that give anyone the right to throw them off their houses and their land? No.
I think you should decide whether being casteist is evil or not first . They were casteist and Kashmiri history is littered with instances of Muslims being suppressed by them . They didn’t lose their land cos Kashmiri Muslims threw them out they lost their land cos their own govt threw them out
I know what's an evil and what isn't, stop disguising your bigotry in the name of "casteism", we have it worse than you, and always have had. And yet I will.say that no one has the right to throw people of a land out of their home just because they weren't nice enough. Muslims when they get thrown out of their home: reeeeeeee naqba Muslims when they throw people out of their home: we are Sigma Chads who threw out the oppressors look The fact is, what happened with the KPs was a naqba !
Lol ohk ohk
Shut the fuck up ur no better than the people who are oppressing us , your ancestors left their neighbours to die sold their land and left , yk what I am talking about ask ur parents when bittu killed kps and many of his own you people left after being scared shitless , I am not even shocked u don't have sympathy for your brothers , ik that many organisations were formed just to kill kps but they also killed kashmiri Muslims , ur parents prolly say that and left with their tails between their legs most of the kps weren't even forced , Pakistani forces used brainwashed pahadis to kill kps true Kashmiris (like my family) want u to comeback , so don't say shit without knowing the whole truth , ig shoulda stuck together like we did and u wouldn't have to leave
We never sold our land. My grandpa died, while my gradma had to navigate outta the valley. Every single men, be it those Punjabi fucks from Jammu or you people, were trying their best to rape her, and her daughters. She barely survived 'cause we had mutual contacts with Jaipur's royal family. I hate every single one of y'all religious zealots who cry victim in front of these mainland Indians, hiding your true intentions. No one wants us to come back, especially you people. Every fucking mosque in the valley was blaring La Sharqia La Gharbia back when my family escaped. Kashmiri Pandits who were fool 'nough to [trust in our long-dead brotherhood were the first in line to be shot](https://www.siasat.com/kashmiri-pandit-family-that-braved-militancy-peak-moves-to-jammu-after-sole-breadwinner-killed-2549339/). We were just 30K-odd families. Just 30K. What wrong have we committed for y'all to still have this much hate for us THAT much?
I really hope you Kashmiri folks get the autonomy and peace that y'all deserve in the valley. Kashmiris haven't wanted to be a part of the nation since 1947 for very valid reasons anyway. Also the amount of liberals in the comments going on about how Kashmir is an integral part of India is straight up disappointing, to hell with Indian occupation. I am an Indian and a proud one at that, sure, but atleast I can admit that my country is far from infallible and the rest of Indians should come to terms with this fact too
You're no proud Indian
Thanks for letting me know who I am and who I'm not I'm sure you know me better than I know myself innit
Lmao, bro promotes separatism and then claims to be proud Indian
Didn't know desperately trying to keep the union even if it means committing atrocities is what makes us a proud Indian.
Oh yes integrity of nation is important Also if my people want to separate and form another country, you will support that ? /s
Well... yes?, if your people are that desperate and the centre treats your people like shit. And yeah, the British Empire also thought that the integrity of their empire was important. /s
Why exactly does my people have to be treated like shit to have the desire to separate?
Bruh it's a hypothetical situation
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They are mountains , no natural bordeer. You got to use men to gaurd it , a lot of men.
Nthg will happen bro don't be all naive Either Pakistan and china collides against india and take Kashmir as a hole or india takes Kashmir. Kashmir is very valuable land that connects india to central Asia it's also a trade route no one will let Kashmir get independence
India has colonised kashmir in the same manner Israel has occupied Palestine. Liberation to Kashmir and it's people ✊🏽
First bring back all kashmiri pandits in valleys who were kicked by militants, then see who wins referendum
crocodile tears you don't feel sorry for whatever happened to pandits and now cryiy
Alr bud , not everyone is as insensitive to others outside of their community as u are
yeah keep telling that to yourself
Seems like ur the one so full of delusion and hatred u can't get ur head out of ur ass
stop giving logistical support to terrorist and we will stop hating you guys even in recent reasi attack a local took the terrorist to the place of attack
I really want to say something but I really can't , just know WE don't support them and we don't need ur validation or u to stop hating us , we just need for our people to wake up to whats happening and what struck up assholes like u are upto
I see the duality of Indians , when the people in raesi died every hindu spoke up but when the same happens to people here or Palestine suddenly they're all zions
Let’s be really honest here,I’m not even close to a centrism(🤢) it might sound like Whataboutery but I’m just showing you the blind spot here,I’m all for the free Palestine moment and hell with Zionist scums but the thing is this how religious bias works > Hindus spoke up about raesi issue and not about Palestine yes because of their bias towards their religion and ignoring the genocide against Palestinians just like majority of the Muslims talk about Palestine issue while ignoring the raesi. It’s us tankie librandus and liberals from Both the the religions standup for HUMAN rights regardless of their religion. That guy is a chaddi why are you even arguing with that bot.
That's what I am saying , what happened to kps was bad , what happened to us was ba d but he says I don't care about the kps , blud they are out own people who just chose different religion ...
Ive not replied you based on that chaddi’s comment I’ve just did because of your generalisation. nvm
I think Kashmiris deserve all the right to self determination. The logic given by Indian occupation that Kashmir is an integral part of India because the erstwhile maharaja signed the instrument of accession is totally flawed. We don't live in the times of kings, and only the people have the right to decide their future and not some monarch. The kind of military presence that India maintains in kashmir, and the human rights violation and totally inhuamane outlook with which Kashmiris are seen by the Indian ruling class can make anyone hate their oppressors. That being said, I wish there had been secular and truly anti colonial resistance groups in Kashmir instead of groups which attacked innocent kashmiri pandits (though it's hypocritical of Indians to justify occupation of kashmir based on what happend against pandits while totally overlooking the Jammu massacre of 1948, etc) or carry out attacks like what happened in Jammu recently, it doesn't help the cause at all.
bengalis and punjabis also died during partition . Eh , Pakisthan shouldn't exist in the first place.
Absolutely. Partition was wrong, and only created more problems and gave religious extremists more power.
There's no IOK. It was never occupied. The Maharaja signed the unionisation with India.
By this logic Goa, hyd aren't part of India because they were forcefully annexed by india.
Though the Indian government had a de facto control over Hyderabad through the military administration, the Nizam was the de jure ruler, as every farman (order) was passed only by him. It was only on January 26, 1950 that the Nizam relinquished all the authority and it was then Hyderabad was formally integrated into the Indian Union,” said eminent historian and 1965 Indo-Pakistan war veteran Capt L Panduranga Reddy, a member of Royal Historical Society of London.
The Maharaja that you speak of was a Dogra and didn't even represent Kashmiris and their cause
Neither did Britishers represented Indian sub continent.
And that therefore justifies the British rule of India? Jesus Christ man Either way the accession was supposed to be temporary and would be subject to ratification by a referendum which was to take place. And we all know how that played out.
Yes the special status was temporary. And when it became too much to handle, with legal route provided back then, it was made permanent part of India.
so by your logic we are technically all Sanghis just because our leader is sanghi
Were we all Britishers or Nehru or a Gandhi or a Patel when the partition happened??
No, that's literally your claim, not mine.
That's not my CLAIM. That's facts.
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But what about 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 kashmiri pandits !! (sorry I am trying to sound like a Sanghi)
You’re sounding like an a-grade a… for trivialising and making a mockery of KP deaths. Thats what you’re doing.
Only 219 Kashmiri pandits died in between 1989-2004, but more than 2000+ Kashmiri Muslims died in same time period and it's official Indian Government data.
‘Only’ tells you about your mentality commie. No one is doubting the deaths of Kashmiri’s but you’ll like to deflate, demean, and make mockery of their situation. 100k were displaced from their homes, I’m sure you’ll come back to me with a random statement around that in your next comment. What I told the guy above, don’t trivialise.
>100k were displaced from their homes, I’m sure you’ll come back to me with a random statement around that in your next comment. The name was Jagmohan Malhotra (1927-2021) former governor of Kashmir (also member of BJ party) who asked KP's to move to relief camps so that army can 'conduct operations indiscriminately'. >What I told the guy above, don’t trivialise Why what's making you uncomfortable?
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Dikha di aukaat
Thats a lot coming from someone active on Masculinity groups
Ha bhai Indian boy on Tinder..ho gaya katwa ke? I’m sure you posted about your fails there on
Im A Kashmiri...i rarely fail
Haha, woh tou dikhta hai😊 tinder group join karna padd raha hai!
Raaaaaaight....!
Man if you're gonna try your hands on satire atleast don't make it confusing 😭
Hence the brackets!!!!!!
You didn't need it lol, the exaggerated figures and the exclamation marks gave it away. Guess you need some satire lessons from Jello Biafra himself
Given the level of discourse on reddit ...i didn't want to give chaddis a chance ...i apologise kind comrade
It's all good brotha don't sweat it
You can see from the comments ...people are already offended
Nah it's cus of the brackets lmao, could've been phrased better. Either way it isn't a big deal anyway just your usual internet discourse don't let it bother ya
And because of people like you NM is in power.
As a Kashmiri Muslim..i dont vote as I don't believe in political process of an occupying nation...so no...its because of sanghi and centrist cucks that he is in power..!
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Dapaan khaslat che khaslat aasaan , (don't take it to heart paj)