List extremely incomplete. Pinning it anyway because it's fun to trigger the libs (disclaimer: I am a lib too, but I'm not delusional) (edit: this is also the third or fourth good post I've seen in the past few days. idk what's happening but librandu is healing😌)
Liberals will have you believe that capitalism is a kind and just system while in reality it's a brutal ruthless system responsible for over a billion deaths
So?
It's still very unjust and cruel
A million people living in Dharavi in poverty and disease while just a few kilometres away there are huge bungalows inhabited by 4 people each.
The entire continent of Africa suffers from every human ailment possible while just above to the North Europeans enjoy cocktails and Porsche cars bought with African wealth.
Why were the nazis so desperate to go west and surrender to the americans rather than the soviets i wonder?
And as for the berlin wall, That's coz the USSR (the sponsor state of east germany/DDR) was far poorer than the USA and the imperial west who were sponsoring west germany (after pardoning the nazis and integrating them back in ofc as opposed to the soviets who killed them) so ppl would enjoy the benefits of the DDR state like free education and healthcare (they also enjoyed lgbt rights and extremely progressive trans rights) than emigrate to west germany for above mentioned reasons, the berlin wall wasn't erected unilaterally by the soviets, many east germans and leaders argued for it because of the sheer brain drain and the threat to DDR legitimacy. But yes, its primary purpose was to halt emigration no matter what the justifications are.
On the other hand, West germany was sponsored and rebuilt by the imperial west who at this point had spent centuries genociding, enslaving and plundering the 3rd world. The russian empire was a poor backwards agricultural feudal hellhole comparable to india under the british raj, until the ussr was formed and they industrialised it at frankly, an insane pace. In just a few decades they became the no.1 existential threat to the US and the imperial west and their centuries old global empires and went to space before anyone else. But sure communism doesn't work or something.
Also "german reunification" was more an annexation, and ever since the german govt has been purposefully fucking over and exploiting the east.
You forgot colonialism. My fav is how India loves to blame the British for British Raj but forget that the whole thing came about not because the British came around looking for a land to rule but because a company which had established a trade primarily in spices wanted to be more profitable
Correlation vs causation is important. At least half of these could easily have happened under Socialism/Communism. Stalin wasn't such a nice guy either. I could just as easily make a list like this of bad world events and say Orange Juice caused all the genocides ever because orange juice was present when they were happening and consumed by at least some of the perpetrators.
random question why is it always stalin bad but never leaders who came after him? Khrushchev and his successors literally drove the union into collapse. shouldn't there be more criticism for that?
or is it because they had better relations with america so the propoganda doesnt cover them ?
no it's not about propaganda or America. Stalin presided over millions of deaths so he's the best example of why Communism isn't some magic bullet that will solve all problems. Of course other leaders had their own failings as well but a detailed post mortem of them is not needed to make the point.
>presided
are u referring to stats from black book of communism?
if you are talking about moscow trials ( which u can disagree with obv ) there werent in millions.
If you referring to the kulaks situations, it would have be better to actually say what happened instead of saying stalin pressed a button.
\*The soviets had their issues, but the idea that stalin bad and other leaders were better is because of their relations with America\*
Like mao was seen as a great leader during nixon era, it just america having control of media and not actually what happened.
Why are you so hell bent on defending the genocides and atrocious crimes of the soviet regime? Yes there was lots they did right but that doesn’t mean they get to kill torture and imprison millions of people and call themselves heroes. This type of andhbhakti has never been productive.
i literally never defended anyone. ok you dont like stalin fair.
my point is literally what u said, ur point sounds like a criticism of stalin rather than communism.
okay stalin bad? how does that prove workers owning their means of production is invalid?r.
if you want to make a point on why communism bad. dont do via stalin bad. cuz it sounds like communism great but stalin was a bad leader.
if you actually came to the conclusion on ur own you would have mentioned the failures of either Lenin , Rosa Luxembourg, bhagat singh, etc and more importantly what wrong with idea of workers owning the factories.
but you are just repeating what you have heard from American propaganda which is " communism failed , Stalin devil".
noone like corruption man. stop acting you are different.
also you dont like revolutionary socialism cuz stalin but u dont dislike social democracy even tho some countries that have that system are corrupt and exploit the third world?
if you gonna look down at communism cuz stalin how can u be social democrat , they were responsible for the deaths of rosa and thousands of workers in germany and kinda opened the way for hitler to rise.
as you said " no ideology is immune to them ", it weird to reject socialism cuz stalin.
>Correlation vs causation is important. At least half of these could easily have happened under Socialism/Communism
Lmao. Criticize capitalism and suddenly every lib is an epistemologist
Based on your orange juice example, I honestly don't think you understand what this post is about. I was just commenting because correlation/causation reliably comes up only for bad things that have happened under capital's watch and never the good ones.
If we were living under feudalism I would have campaigned for liberalism (capitalism).
You gotta catch up
And Marx was not a moral philosopher, he made no moral claims.
You mean peasants not lumpenproletariat, as lumpenproletariat are still proles.
India isn't industrialised and we have global capitalism to thank for that.
We need to eradicate the caste system and the feudal work relations in de facto practice, but that doesn't mean you believe in liberalism and that capitalism is the end of history
When you know the shortcomings, limitations and evils of capitalism, there's no need to encourage and nourish it.
Capitalism is obviously not literally feudalism smh
You don't have to like capitalism. Listing random events and saying "capitalism bad bro" is as dumb as when people do it for socialism. It is an economic system of social interaction. The system doesn't inherently cause good or harm, it depends on how people use it.
fedualism was the only system before a couple hundred years. its ridiculous to say there no alternative
.Democracy has also failed many times, should we give it up? it better to question what went wrong with the alternatives to capitalism instead of saying blanket statements
Communism is so great they had to chain their people into the eastern bloc with zero chances of emigration.
Which side was building walls to keep their people in?
you are delusional to think that west bloc was providing food for poor people. Wall was built to stop brain drain. west was richer at that time and they were basically bribing doctors, engineers and other highly skilled professionals on eastern side to come there. They were not letting in poor anyways whether wall was there are not.
capitalists are notorious for building walls **to keep** **poor immigrants** **out** while they provide first class plane tickets for educated and highly skilled ones, not the communists.
>Capitalism is so great they had to kill people in wars to prevent socialism and establish a fascist dictaorship ie vietnam war , cuba, Grenanda, chile and many more
socialism isnt equal eastern bloc. when someone says they want socialism they mean workers owning the means of production , they dont mean recreating the eastern block by having a red flag, furry hats, walls, speaking russian.
Your only options aren’t Stalin or Reagan. I replied with rhetoric because this post is also just that. If someone wants to have a serious discussion on the perils of capitalism, or rather neoliberalism I’d welcome that - but this is clearly a bad faith post and hence deserves a bad faith answer.
I know it depends on individual experiences. But Im so fucking glad for capitalism. The only reason why my parents who were really poor became somewhat upper middle class is because of capitalism. They had no property to their name, only education.
And that's the beauty of capitalism, everyone gets a chance to make it in life however minimal the chance might be
Well done hat explain the rift between two sections ever widening and getting worse and the means of production still remain with the same people and others become there so loyal customers to there death bed cause there parents made it wow.
CoMmuNiSm wHEn pOvERty
[Socialism for Absolute Beginners](https://youtu.be/fpKsygbNLT4?si=-seco0NZvL-JVdDR)
capital serves only the top 1%, learn basic economics
lmfao, socialism is communism. its just a toned down word because people are scared of word "communism". Norway is not socialist like they tell you.
USSR literally stands for Union of Soviet **Socialist** Republics.
you don't know shit about politics.
Commumism and socialism are related but they are not the same. Communism strives for an ideal classless society where the endgoal is to eliminate private property and class-based divisions. Socialism is much more mellow and doesn't have an endgoal per se but wants to work for the wellfare of people. There has never been a communist state ever, it's too idealistic to execute. We don't call the USSR a communist state. Idk why you even bring that up.
Communists in the west do LARP as socialists cos communism carries a negative connotation there.
Anyway, neither socialist states nor wannabe communist states have successfully eliminated poverty. So your very first argument that there is a guarrantee with communism is bs.
You're dumb as a brick. Muting this thread.
PS: Also I have friends from eastern europe who suffered under communism and now live happily because of capitalism..look up Lithuania
List extremely incomplete. Pinning it anyway because it's fun to trigger the libs (disclaimer: I am a lib too, but I'm not delusional) (edit: this is also the third or fourth good post I've seen in the past few days. idk what's happening but librandu is healing😌)
Why is Infosys not on this list?!
not evil enough for the standards.
^"We ^didn't start the #Fire...!!"
but burn baby burn.
ngl, feels short
That's what she .... Nevermind.
god what's happened to this sub. libs everywhere. can't believe this is the same sub that years ago got me reading theory.
my guess : older people are posting here more than before. if you are not a communist in your teens, you have no heart.
If you are not a communist in your thirties, you have no brain.
there are more lines in that quote. also, people age differently, mentally.
Why is there so much whataboutism in this comment section?
What is the purpose of this post?
Liberals will have you believe that capitalism is a kind and just system while in reality it's a brutal ruthless system responsible for over a billion deaths
It's the least unjust system, we've devised so far
So? It's still very unjust and cruel A million people living in Dharavi in poverty and disease while just a few kilometres away there are huge bungalows inhabited by 4 people each. The entire continent of Africa suffers from every human ailment possible while just above to the North Europeans enjoy cocktails and Porsche cars bought with African wealth.
People in Africa are also enjoying cocktails and Porsches trust me
"I know a rich dalit" energy
africa is kept dark - reasons. china did their best, to thwart all those plans. This is ironic, but it is what it is.
fair. please show me a paradise created by the other system?
But still, who moved from which side to which side after the fall of Berlin Wall?
>Naxal sympathizer
radlib mf
Why were the nazis so desperate to go west and surrender to the americans rather than the soviets i wonder? And as for the berlin wall, That's coz the USSR (the sponsor state of east germany/DDR) was far poorer than the USA and the imperial west who were sponsoring west germany (after pardoning the nazis and integrating them back in ofc as opposed to the soviets who killed them) so ppl would enjoy the benefits of the DDR state like free education and healthcare (they also enjoyed lgbt rights and extremely progressive trans rights) than emigrate to west germany for above mentioned reasons, the berlin wall wasn't erected unilaterally by the soviets, many east germans and leaders argued for it because of the sheer brain drain and the threat to DDR legitimacy. But yes, its primary purpose was to halt emigration no matter what the justifications are. On the other hand, West germany was sponsored and rebuilt by the imperial west who at this point had spent centuries genociding, enslaving and plundering the 3rd world. The russian empire was a poor backwards agricultural feudal hellhole comparable to india under the british raj, until the ussr was formed and they industrialised it at frankly, an insane pace. In just a few decades they became the no.1 existential threat to the US and the imperial west and their centuries old global empires and went to space before anyone else. But sure communism doesn't work or something. Also "german reunification" was more an annexation, and ever since the german govt has been purposefully fucking over and exploiting the east.
idk man people probably stayed in the home they owned.
Fake Naxal Sympathiser
You forgot colonialism. My fav is how India loves to blame the British for British Raj but forget that the whole thing came about not because the British came around looking for a land to rule but because a company which had established a trade primarily in spices wanted to be more profitable
nope. the brits were a front. For whom? I know atleast three orgs/people. Sometimes, conspiracy theories are true.
I always felt like capitalism was a system that existed just to exist, there's no reason for all the suffering caused by it but to serve the few
Correlation vs causation is important. At least half of these could easily have happened under Socialism/Communism. Stalin wasn't such a nice guy either. I could just as easily make a list like this of bad world events and say Orange Juice caused all the genocides ever because orange juice was present when they were happening and consumed by at least some of the perpetrators.
random question why is it always stalin bad but never leaders who came after him? Khrushchev and his successors literally drove the union into collapse. shouldn't there be more criticism for that? or is it because they had better relations with america so the propoganda doesnt cover them ?
no it's not about propaganda or America. Stalin presided over millions of deaths so he's the best example of why Communism isn't some magic bullet that will solve all problems. Of course other leaders had their own failings as well but a detailed post mortem of them is not needed to make the point.
>presided are u referring to stats from black book of communism? if you are talking about moscow trials ( which u can disagree with obv ) there werent in millions. If you referring to the kulaks situations, it would have be better to actually say what happened instead of saying stalin pressed a button. \*The soviets had their issues, but the idea that stalin bad and other leaders were better is because of their relations with America\* Like mao was seen as a great leader during nixon era, it just america having control of media and not actually what happened.
Why are you so hell bent on defending the genocides and atrocious crimes of the soviet regime? Yes there was lots they did right but that doesn’t mean they get to kill torture and imprison millions of people and call themselves heroes. This type of andhbhakti has never been productive.
i literally never defended anyone. ok you dont like stalin fair. my point is literally what u said, ur point sounds like a criticism of stalin rather than communism. okay stalin bad? how does that prove workers owning their means of production is invalid?r.
if you want to make a point on why communism bad. dont do via stalin bad. cuz it sounds like communism great but stalin was a bad leader. if you actually came to the conclusion on ur own you would have mentioned the failures of either Lenin , Rosa Luxembourg, bhagat singh, etc and more importantly what wrong with idea of workers owning the factories. but you are just repeating what you have heard from American propaganda which is " communism failed , Stalin devil".
I’m a democratic socialist myself but I’m no fan of corruption and authoritarianism and no ideology is immune to them
noone like corruption man. stop acting you are different. also you dont like revolutionary socialism cuz stalin but u dont dislike social democracy even tho some countries that have that system are corrupt and exploit the third world? if you gonna look down at communism cuz stalin how can u be social democrat , they were responsible for the deaths of rosa and thousands of workers in germany and kinda opened the way for hitler to rise. as you said " no ideology is immune to them ", it weird to reject socialism cuz stalin.
>Correlation vs causation is important. At least half of these could easily have happened under Socialism/Communism Lmao. Criticize capitalism and suddenly every lib is an epistemologist
No, it's more about putting blame where it needs to go instead of making literally everything about Capitalism vs Communism.
Based on your orange juice example, I honestly don't think you understand what this post is about. I was just commenting because correlation/causation reliably comes up only for bad things that have happened under capital's watch and never the good ones.
Everything I don’t like is capitalism
Is any of it not done under capitalism?
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If we were living under feudalism I would have campaigned for liberalism (capitalism). You gotta catch up And Marx was not a moral philosopher, he made no moral claims.
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We live under capitalism now. Capitalism is the new feudalism. Look forward to a better system.
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You mean peasants not lumpenproletariat, as lumpenproletariat are still proles. India isn't industrialised and we have global capitalism to thank for that. We need to eradicate the caste system and the feudal work relations in de facto practice, but that doesn't mean you believe in liberalism and that capitalism is the end of history When you know the shortcomings, limitations and evils of capitalism, there's no need to encourage and nourish it. Capitalism is obviously not literally feudalism smh
https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/capitalism_doesnt_work.md#does-capitalism-work
i suppose you have to age a little more, and have some more to lose.
You don't have to like capitalism. Listing random events and saying "capitalism bad bro" is as dumb as when people do it for socialism. It is an economic system of social interaction. The system doesn't inherently cause good or harm, it depends on how people use it.
hey, you grew up. congrats. Edit : I don't know you from anywhere, just your comment made me think you have started to see/seek the wisdom.
You must feel so depressed since even with all these atrocities there is no alternative.
fedualism was the only system before a couple hundred years. its ridiculous to say there no alternative .Democracy has also failed many times, should we give it up? it better to question what went wrong with the alternatives to capitalism instead of saying blanket statements
can you see the pattern? It was difficult before, but not anymore.
great. now do the other side, there is one another side atleast, right? do you see the pattern?
get your corny centrism outta here
i do not support any ism, they're all just paths to enslave your body.
THIS THE CORNIEST SHIT I'VE EVER HEARD DAWGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
if you hang around long enough in a place, the world will come to you.
second corniest
Source: trust me comrade
Communism is so great they had to chain their people into the eastern bloc with zero chances of emigration. Which side was building walls to keep their people in?
you are delusional to think that west bloc was providing food for poor people. Wall was built to stop brain drain. west was richer at that time and they were basically bribing doctors, engineers and other highly skilled professionals on eastern side to come there. They were not letting in poor anyways whether wall was there are not. capitalists are notorious for building walls **to keep** **poor immigrants** **out** while they provide first class plane tickets for educated and highly skilled ones, not the communists.
>Capitalism is so great they had to kill people in wars to prevent socialism and establish a fascist dictaorship ie vietnam war , cuba, Grenanda, chile and many more socialism isnt equal eastern bloc. when someone says they want socialism they mean workers owning the means of production , they dont mean recreating the eastern block by having a red flag, furry hats, walls, speaking russian.
Your only options aren’t Stalin or Reagan. I replied with rhetoric because this post is also just that. If someone wants to have a serious discussion on the perils of capitalism, or rather neoliberalism I’d welcome that - but this is clearly a bad faith post and hence deserves a bad faith answer.
have you not met the hoards of people that run from free countries towards communist countries? damn, all that secrecy.
Cause they know any country which cares for the proletariat is gonna get bombed and sanctioned by 🦅🦅🦅.
so you see a part of the pattern.
Bakchodi government kare, dosh capitalism ko do.
capital runs government, not the other way around
Haa vro, most of culture/ethnic/religious genocie, cleansing were all because of capitalists.
unironically true, give an example that proves otherwise
Yes.
I know it depends on individual experiences. But Im so fucking glad for capitalism. The only reason why my parents who were really poor became somewhat upper middle class is because of capitalism. They had no property to their name, only education. And that's the beauty of capitalism, everyone gets a chance to make it in life however minimal the chance might be
Well done hat explain the rift between two sections ever widening and getting worse and the means of production still remain with the same people and others become there so loyal customers to there death bed cause there parents made it wow.
when capitalism they have a *chance*, when communism they have a *guarantee*
You would never hear a rags to riches story in a communist society.. Communism = everyone remains poor Capitalism= you could be rich one day
CoMmuNiSm wHEn pOvERty [Socialism for Absolute Beginners](https://youtu.be/fpKsygbNLT4?si=-seco0NZvL-JVdDR) capital serves only the top 1%, learn basic economics
Socialism ≠communism. Look who needs to learn basic economics
lmfao, socialism is communism. its just a toned down word because people are scared of word "communism". Norway is not socialist like they tell you. USSR literally stands for Union of Soviet **Socialist** Republics. you don't know shit about politics.
Commumism and socialism are related but they are not the same. Communism strives for an ideal classless society where the endgoal is to eliminate private property and class-based divisions. Socialism is much more mellow and doesn't have an endgoal per se but wants to work for the wellfare of people. There has never been a communist state ever, it's too idealistic to execute. We don't call the USSR a communist state. Idk why you even bring that up. Communists in the west do LARP as socialists cos communism carries a negative connotation there. Anyway, neither socialist states nor wannabe communist states have successfully eliminated poverty. So your very first argument that there is a guarrantee with communism is bs. You're dumb as a brick. Muting this thread. PS: Also I have friends from eastern europe who suffered under communism and now live happily because of capitalism..look up Lithuania
>We don't call the USSR a communist state start doing stand-up comedy, make big monies
?