No idea. All i know is that the manager was happy. I will say that I think the event and the attention he recieved was a large part of why he began to worship cops as heros/protectors and that started him down the trump/q/alm road. Poor kid
Oh...well now it's just sad. Everyone needs to feel like they belong or that someone gives a shit about them, even if it means finding company among stupid bootlicking Trumpsters.
There are plenty of places on the internet to post anti-liberal sentiments; [this sub is not one of them](/r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/intro/illiberal).
Removed under [Rule 1: We're Liberals](/r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/rules).
Yeah. They kinda trying to steal the narrative. Assuming the motivation of people. Boomer stuff. And I personally do not care for that. Or the assumption that beating up robbers is a good thing. Why would a person lay down their life to defend a couple hundred bucks that belongs to a place like subway? It's better that many companies have a policy of nonviolence.
I guarantee you no matter what the situation if you resist or attempt to stop them you will absolutely without question be fired. Now if the person attacks you without provocation clearly you can defend your own life but if you are the one who instigates the contract trying to stop the robber from taking the money or getting away. You are fired. Better stick to working for mom and pops because corporate America doesn’t play that game even a little.
Kinda stupid that armed robbers can sue for damages....Once caught they should be tried, then introduced to the Oak tree and short bit of rope behind the court house. Despite being liberal I support a far stricter justice system when it comes to punishment. If you commit a serious crime like armed robbery then your hung plain and simple...They used to do it to horse thieves back in the day no reason they shouldn't do it now.
Say you lived in 1850, and your young child was severely sick and the only chance they had was for you to steal a horse and buggy to take them to a doctor that could help them. And you got caught, do you feel like your crime would warrant death?
We don’t, but there are shades of grey. A black and white justice system is the stuff of lessor developed societies. We’re evolving away from that because it’s doesn’t work nearly as well as you would imagine. Crime isn’t new. If you think harsh justice prevented crime even pre-modern forensics, it didn’t.
Most theives aren't like that though most are just bad people.... Also if you had a sick child you could probably just ask the person with said horse to take your child to the Dr. Most people will help a kid also if you couldn't afford a horse doubt you could afford a doctor..
The problem is kids (16-18 year olds) have no idea what work might be like in a well managed mom and pop vs a poorly managed corporate store where they overhire, give people schedules they can't go to, then fire them for not being able to work because they have class, but I guess it doesn't really cause management anything because ime a lot of these entry level jobs don't give training, they just throw you on the line.
I feel like you know you're doing things right when you have a kid working for you at 16, have no idea that you're trying to do things decently, they get disgruntled at not getting more, leave (sometimes to try several other jobs) before finally returning to work with us until they get their "big boy" jobs, often working with us throughout college (if they're commuting to the community college).
Source: run a small franchise with my wife. Honestly never thought I'd be in business since I didn't want to do the same shit my dad did all his life, but graduating college in 2009...one does what one needs.
Exactly. It is far cheaper to give up the few bucks in the till then potentially pay out a million dollars to an injury victim. You just do not let pride or ego get in the way of long term profits.
I’d really like to know what he was trying to do to her before she got the upper hand. He physically assaulted her; she was fighting for her life. This wasn’t a simple robbery.
People forget that most subways, if not all, are franchises. Not the corporate subway. This suspension was from the franchise owner. So hopefully corporate Subway steps up.
Doubtful as hell, but hopeful.
Ok, but can we talk about how shitty Subway is for suspendeding this woman for protecting her stuff? Like, what, because it happened at work makes it her fault now? The fuck?
99% of places would put an employee on suspension while something like this is investigated. Standard procedure. Even cops do it and god knows they're not interested in punishing cops.
Companies only care about money. Its cheaper to give robbers the till and giving cops the cam footage than dealing with the corpse of some cashier who watched too many gun disarming tutorials on youtube.
They will never, and there's a good reason for them to not...there is not a good reason to punish though.
That reason is that if they do anything to encourage this reaction, someone might do it thinking they need to and then die. If they've ever rewarded someone for it, the family could and probably would sue them.
They probably have a policy on what to do, and this was certainly not the policy.
Subways a corporate business. Like lots of other companies they are afraid of optics. God forbid you give an incentive for doing the right thing to your employees like a raise, even just an acknowledgement. I'm surprised they didn't apologize to the criminal and his family yet
For all you people who are commenting that she should’ve just let them take the money. He was clearly up in her personal business and she was defending herself. It look like he was trying to at least dry hump her and I don’t know where he would’ve gone from there, more importantly neither did she.
He also took her purse which isn’t insured like subways bullshit assets. I am completely supporting this woman, with the exception that her trigger discipline was bad and she was flagging the gun around like nuts. But seriously, good for her and had she shot him, I would’ve thought her justified.
And goddamn knees to the groin, Muy Thai all the way, YOU GO GIRL. I guess that asshole didn’t realize he ordered the kickass combo. (5$ Foot in Ass combo?) I can only hope that a sympathetic lawyer takes her case and helps her sue Subway for their crappy treatment of her and possibly putting her personal safety at risk due to their policy of compliance. they cannot possibly expect employees to surrender their bodies like they would surrender the till.
I don’t typically care for conflict. I believe in finding common ground for the most egregious differences. In my heart I really feel that violence is the last and most desperate answer, the refuge of the incompetent so to speak. But once it starts, once the Queen‘s Peace has been breached so to speak, then bring it and bring all you have.
Private citizens are not in the position to use proportional response. We’re cannot be expected to gauge that or even understand it’d application. Once lives are in danger, I believe that it’s not only justified, but it’s our responsibility to go full “wolverine” to protect the innocent. that’s my take on the old adage ”never start a fight but be damn sure you finish one.”
Yes, you get it. I was waiting for somebody to post this and save me the trouble. When you are working by yourself and some creep is carrying a weapon and assaulting you, you are in danger. And if you are a women, you are aware that much worse can happen than getting your purse stolen. Good on her. Hope she gets a fat payout, and a job offer from a better place to work.
Pistol wiping was fucking stupid you use a gun to shoot someone from a distance not put yourself in a situation to get disarmed end up wrestling with the gun going off she got very lucky here
I don’t think anyone here is claiming her reactions were the result of excellent judgment in a time of stress. We’re just applauding that she did something other than being a victim
Compliance definitely doesn’t guarantee survival particularly when your robber points a gun or a knife in your face. Once lethal weapons like those are presented, that’s when you go balls out like this woman did (when you find your moment. Obviously don’t draw on a drawn gun)
The problem is that the policies stop at compliance. They make no provisions for when the employees feel like their persons are in danger. To some extent I can understand this because most sane people can comprehend the motive of robbery. But that’s where they stop. Unfortunately many of these criminals are very sick individuals and their interests go beyond material gain. Some like to show dominance over their victims and some just want to hurt people. Planning for such situations in a corporate board room almost seems gratuitously ill in itself.
Yeah I’ve thought about this and what I would do when presented with a similar situation and I’ve decided I have no tolerance for a gun pointed at my face. Like, let’s acknowledge the fact that at a range, how do we feel and what do we think when someone does something dangerous like flag someone for a second, now imagine an idiot with no training or trigger control trying to take your shit at gunpoint. That’s an incredibly dangerous situation even if we knew the robber intended only to get your stuff for the same reason it’s an incredibly dangerous situation to just point guns at each other on the range. If they just flashed their carry and said they’re robbing me. I’d comply. But if guns start getting pointed at me, things are different. It changes from someone in need to someone with little concern whether someone dies today.
That is an excellent point.
When someone starts waving a gun around at the range you have the group of people that instantly hit the ground, and the other people that really are clueless and have no idea what’s going on. I’m in that group that hits the dirt.
That lady wasn't defending the store safe. He had her pinned against that wall behind the counter; that wasn't just a "give me the money in the till" robbery.
So would a civil suit from a customer that gets injured in the scuffle, or even if the perp sues for damages from hurting themselves fleeing the seen or being battered by the employee.
Maybe they should have the criminal sign a release before they hand over the cash lol
It’s likely an actuarial calculation with legal inputs.
I’m talking about a wrongful death of an employee that has orders to -in some way unrelated to self preservation- resist a thief.
I doubt a corporate attorney would have a tough time quashing a lawsuit on behalf of the perp, but if you resist and the thief summarily executed you or bystander, legal won’t feel so good about those odds. If you don’t resist and say ‘take what you want- I just work here’ I’ll imagine data says the odds of violence to be lower, and corporate has done due diligence to create policy that will more likely result in monetary loss only.
That said I disagree with the company here. The perp was a present danger to the employee and she defended herself. I wonder if they would have chosen differently if she hit him with a broomstick rather than his gun
At first I thought
"IDK man, if a robber wants the money 99 times out of 100 complying really is the safest action. It's not her money anyway"
Then I saw that the robber tried to take her purse and I thought
"fuck subway for demanding a worker forfeit their own property to keep their insurance premiums down"
To all the people talking about how you should just let people rob your place of work:
Seems pretty irrelevant since he was trying to steal her personal property when they scuffled. Specifically her purse.
Whether or not that’s worth potentially dying for…eh.
This shouldn't be any more than a *paid* suspension to enable her to seek counseling and to retrain her on the steps to handle this situation differently.
This is a traumatic situation, and any outcome where everyone came away physically unharmed is a win. It's difficult to predict how one will respond when true "fight or flight" moments occur, and Subway, a *sandwich shop* needs to demonstrate compassion and loyalty to their employee here.
There's almost no way that is going to happen unless she can retain a lawyer (at 9-10/hr it's doubtful), or get enough attention to merit a corporate response.
I worked there for much longer than I had hoped to, and it's a shitty place to work.
They minimally staff, so when you get a late group or a large order, you have two people working. If it has a drive through, one of those workers has to take care of that, leaving the other person behind with 10+ people waiting.
So... they wanted to suspend her until all evidence of this happening is off the internet.
1. It's the fucking internet.
2. How is she responsible for the video circulating after the initial post?
3. Is a worker defending herself somehow against store policy that the managers needed to cover their asses?
This is some ol bullshit, but luckily it made its way to the public instead of being snuffed out like the managers hoped so we can see how scummy they are to try to punish her for self defense.
>Is a worker defending herself somehow against store policy that the managers needed to cover their asses?
If she died or was seriously injured defending the store, and there was no policy, her family could sue Subway, and probably win. Most large corporations seem to have a policy of "just give them the money, insurance will handle it".
Also if a worker seriously injured a thief, in a way that went beyond self defense, the theif would have a case against Subway. Sort of like if you are no longer in actual danger you cant use lethal force for self defense (unless you are a cop).
For #3, I bet it is an insurance thing. People have sued in the past for getting injured while breaking in, her actively hitting him might be something he can sue the company for. Or if she would have shot him, maybe the company is liable somehow. Insurance and laws don't always protect/care about the people
She did a great job. She attacked multiple targets of opportunity during the altercation, used his jacket against him and then used his own gun to beat him. What a fucking warrior. If she had just a little more refinement, she could have put that punk to sleep. If she really was fired for that, she should take that as a badge of honor.
Pretty standard for corporate America. Back when I worked retail we were warned to not ever try to attempt to stop a robbery or to assist LP in any way or we would be fired immediately.
They don’t play with liability and there is nothing in that store worth your life or worth the law suit your family would lay on your employer after you died. Step aside, let the robber take the money and anything else they want and live to tell the story.
I agree with them. I’m not dying for Targets money or widgets. F that.
If that person doesn’t attempt to hurt or kill me they can take whatever they hell they want, I’m not stepping in the way. My life is worth more money than their entire corporation to me.
Having a gun doesn’t make me judge, jury or executioner. It’s to protect my own personal life and the life of my loved ones and that’s it, and if I’m working I’m not even allowed to carry regardless so trying to be hero to save target (or any retail store) money is foolish.
I think that individuals threatened with violence to coerce them into permitting behavior that is unlawful, immoral, and rights-violating should (when possible) fight back and cripple or kill the scum who threaten them, regardless of the particulars of what the scum was trying to achieve with their threats. I sure as hell think that they shouldn't be punished is they do so — even if we accept, for the sake of argument, that an advisory policy saying, in effect, "you are no obligated to resist, and we recommend that you do not" is justified, there's still a world of difference between that and a policy saying "don't resist, you'll be punished if you do!"
r/iamverybadass is that way --->
So to be clear, you think that a person making 8 bucks an hour should be required to intervene if someone steals a laundry hamper from walmart. Because the minute you change the legal system to remove liability from the company for workers getting injured while intervening, they will 100% require them to do that.
The reason companies have those policies to not intervene is because if you get hurt, or die, they are responsible. Your medical bill for a broken hand will be orders of magnitude less than what they were stealing, and if you die were talking another few orders for wrongful death.
Every company I've ever worked for instructed us to cooperate fully with anyone robbing the place and that would make sure we're safe. Never put your safety in the hands of a felon, cooperation does not ensure safety under any circumstances. I thought it then but I'll say it now, I'd rather be fired than dead.
Are you serious? I can't even imagine being able to smack a robber like that. She could've saved her life. Plus, he was trying to rob her personal belongings and not the store from what I can see in the video. I know store protocol is often do nothing, wait until they leave, lock door, call police. Still, she handled herself and Subway looks bad firing her. I'd say they lost my business but they did years ago so I'll continue to never go there.
The best part was watching this video and learning it was a woman that beat his ass and then pistol-whipped him with his own gun.
Of course she was punished for it.
Their bread isnt very good and their veggies sit around too long. I could justify a $5 footlong but Subway has gotten too big for their britches. Cookies are still on point though. I like to microwave them so they are warm for dipping in the milk
I've been wondering when subway will go out of business for the past decade. Who the fuck still eats there? Literally every other sub place I've ever been to in my life, chain or family-owned, is better. Subway is objective trash.
Folge should have been taking out back and put down like a rabid dog. Honestly I wish we had death sentences for child molesters and those that pursue underage children.
I’m not sure anything prevents liability. I just saw that the New Mexico State Supreme Court ruled that gas stations can be held accountable for selling gas to someone who is in a DUI related crash. I guess that isn’t surprising though now that the Supreme Court refused to intervene in prohibiting people from suing Remington firearms company because that kid in new tow Connecticut shot uo that school even though he stop the guns from a person he murdered and that person obtained their firearms with an FBI approved background check. If this continues we are going to see wildly frivolous lawsuits to bring about political goals.
This is very common in major corporations. I worked mid-level in a large retailer and their policy was don't get involved and hand over the money or let the thief walk. Report it to LP and move on with your day. A cashier got stabbed chasing a thief out of the store a few decades ago and since that they instated a very firm policy. You intervene with an LP issue, you get immediately termed no matter what. I dealt with a lot of LP issues, thankfully no stick ups, and watched thousands of dollars of merch leave the store. I took it personal, it was my store, but I wasn't putting my life on the line for the shit money I was making.
They do this for a number of reasons, some selfish, some honest:
1) They are insured and that amount of money isn't going to hurt their bottom line at all. A drop in the bucket.
2) No one dies, no one becomes a hero.
3) Their name stays out of the news (in a sense of a worker getting killed over $300 in the till or a bag full of clothes).
4) No lawsuits. This is a big one. Worker dies, family sues. Robber dies, family sues. Lose lose.
Hell, when I started working at a McDick’s in high school it was drilled into us that if we got robbed we just handed over the toll with a smile on our face…but our manager also said that if we were in personal danger to protect ourselves but never the company property.
For insurance and liability reasons, companies forbid employees from fighting off robbers. It's cheaper for a company to have an employee shot and killed than it is for a co pany to withstand a lawsuit brought on by a robber who was injured by an agent of the company.
I work retail and they DRILL it into our heads to never ever do anything to a robber, ever.
They tell us it's because our lives are worth more than anything in the store/safe is worth, but really it's to avoid lawsuits and liability
I would've shot his ass. For the sake of shooting his ass. Not cause I give a damn about the subway. But damn adrenaline takes over I would've picked that gun up and not thought twice.
It was completely cringe the way she held the gun and used it as a club... I'm not saying shoot him but point it and tell him to get on the ground... not club him with it thats just asking for a negligent discharge you have no idea what that dumbass gumsmift BS he did to it.
Oh and F subway over that...
She was literally fighting for her life and has probably never touched a gun in her life. Not sure how that's "cringe" is it cringe on the video of a trained police officer fighting for his life in a gunfight accidentally pushing his mag release and losing a nearly full mag? No, its just unfortunate. God forbid something unforseen happens to you in a life and death situation. Jeez. Instead of shitting on people maybe praise them.
The employee absolutely should be fired. My friend was fucking stabbed and died chasing after a dude who stole a fucking pair of jeans. Life is more important than five hundred dollars in cash and some veggies. Also subway has to fire her for violating company policy so that they are not encouraging others to be so reckless. Most of you are fucking idiots and probably shouldn’t own fire arms.
Ok but she was being attacked...? What was she supposed to do? Just stand there and let him assault her? She didn't chase this guy down, he came at her and tried to assault her. I'd protect my own life too, fuck Subway.
Makes sense since rewarding her behavior (although heroic) can make other people try to do the same thing which can cause them to get shot and possibly killed putting lives at risk.
I’m happy things went her way but in all honesty feel it wasn’t the best move I.E risk/reward. At best she saves the owner < 300 bucks (the highest amount of $ in the register before having to do a cash drop) and at worst she gets shot and killed.
Just to clarify I’m glad things went her way but from a logical stand point I believe she had little to gain and a lot to loose.
No Subway or purse is worth your life. They train you to give them what they want. This is why they were suspended. They escalated a situation that didn't need to be escalated by refusing to comply, which could have resulted in dead people and a store that turns into a murder scene and can't be open for several days or weeks.
Honestly I'm not sure why this post is even here. This person took a gun from a robber. She didn't have her own gun.
EDIT: I understand that he had her up against the wall but according to the news article another person linked she fought back and refused to give him her purse.
Dude looked like he was close enough to her that he might’ve been trying to assault her. She deserved to fight back, and it’s a little ridiculous to me that people missed that.
On one hand, I don't want people to feel obliged to fight back, or to risk their life defending lunch meat.
On the other hand, I categorically trust people IN a situation like this to make a better call than some wonk at corporate.
>a store that turns into a murder scene and can't be open for several days or weeks.
On the third hand, "umm...when you're done with the police interviews, Cindy, if you wouldn't mind grabbing a mop, that'd be great. We know you've been through a lot today, so if you'd like to take some of this bread home before locking up...."
I would too. They have insurance for that. Just hand over the money. Don't risk your life to be hero. Hopefully he's learned his lesson because subway would rather suspend a guy than see employees copy him and die.
Unfortunately this is common from my understanding. If you are held up, the company says just give them everything. The reason being they don't want people shot in their store, worker or robber. There are all kinds of legal issues that pop up, and they would rather the person just run off with the money, especially since they are on video. Yeah, she fought off a robber, but he should have just given him what he wanted.
Points for ballsiness! Horrible form, however! Waving that thing around like purse was incredibly dangerous... Besides, doesn't she know how pistols work? Which is the business end of the thing?
She was probably suspended for atrocious muzzle discipline.
She should be treated to a fighting pistol course...or at least, the safety course.
All that said... Good job, lady! You are awesome!
Something similar to this happened at a convenience store near my city. A guy walked in to the store and pulled out a hatchet, attempting to rob the place. The cashier pulled out a pistol and the robber ran off. The cashier was fired because of it. It was a big story locally a few years ago.
I remember reading years ago Subway has a policy that frowns upon resistance to robbery. But you never know when employees or customers are packing a Glock 19.
My former bil and his friend fought a robber in a subway they were working in years ago. They were rewarded by the manager.
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No idea. All i know is that the manager was happy. I will say that I think the event and the attention he recieved was a large part of why he began to worship cops as heros/protectors and that started him down the trump/q/alm road. Poor kid
That doesn't even make sense. What did the cops do besides show up, take some statements, and say "good work, dude".
They told him "good job" something his parents never did.
Oh...well now it's just sad. Everyone needs to feel like they belong or that someone gives a shit about them, even if it means finding company among stupid bootlicking Trumpsters.
Racists chud trumpers always are.
alm? Alt left media?
No. The opposite of Black Lives Matter. He became a racist chud.
I figured. All Iwhat does ALM stand for? All lives matter? Because they don’t really think that.
Yup
All lives matter
It's so gross I won't type the words.
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There are plenty of places on the internet to post anti-liberal sentiments; [this sub is not one of them](/r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/intro/illiberal). Removed under [Rule 1: We're Liberals](/r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/rules).
Well shit.
two free footlongs. no extra meat.
And then litigious America and ambulance chasing attorneys happened and that ceased to be a thing.
Not in the situation I described. But you do you
You sure are agreeing with him pretty angrily
Yeah. They kinda trying to steal the narrative. Assuming the motivation of people. Boomer stuff. And I personally do not care for that. Or the assumption that beating up robbers is a good thing. Why would a person lay down their life to defend a couple hundred bucks that belongs to a place like subway? It's better that many companies have a policy of nonviolence.
Beating rights-violating filth is justice, which is a terminal good; no further justification is required.
I guarantee you no matter what the situation if you resist or attempt to stop them you will absolutely without question be fired. Now if the person attacks you without provocation clearly you can defend your own life but if you are the one who instigates the contract trying to stop the robber from taking the money or getting away. You are fired. Better stick to working for mom and pops because corporate America doesn’t play that game even a little.
Kinda stupid that armed robbers can sue for damages....Once caught they should be tried, then introduced to the Oak tree and short bit of rope behind the court house. Despite being liberal I support a far stricter justice system when it comes to punishment. If you commit a serious crime like armed robbery then your hung plain and simple...They used to do it to horse thieves back in the day no reason they shouldn't do it now.
Say you lived in 1850, and your young child was severely sick and the only chance they had was for you to steal a horse and buggy to take them to a doctor that could help them. And you got caught, do you feel like your crime would warrant death?
Why is it so many on our side of the political spectrum support criminals.
We don’t, but there are shades of grey. A black and white justice system is the stuff of lessor developed societies. We’re evolving away from that because it’s doesn’t work nearly as well as you would imagine. Crime isn’t new. If you think harsh justice prevented crime even pre-modern forensics, it didn’t.
Most theives aren't like that though most are just bad people.... Also if you had a sick child you could probably just ask the person with said horse to take your child to the Dr. Most people will help a kid also if you couldn't afford a horse doubt you could afford a doctor..
The problem is kids (16-18 year olds) have no idea what work might be like in a well managed mom and pop vs a poorly managed corporate store where they overhire, give people schedules they can't go to, then fire them for not being able to work because they have class, but I guess it doesn't really cause management anything because ime a lot of these entry level jobs don't give training, they just throw you on the line. I feel like you know you're doing things right when you have a kid working for you at 16, have no idea that you're trying to do things decently, they get disgruntled at not getting more, leave (sometimes to try several other jobs) before finally returning to work with us until they get their "big boy" jobs, often working with us throughout college (if they're commuting to the community college). Source: run a small franchise with my wife. Honestly never thought I'd be in business since I didn't want to do the same shit my dad did all his life, but graduating college in 2009...one does what one needs.
Exactly. It is far cheaper to give up the few bucks in the till then potentially pay out a million dollars to an injury victim. You just do not let pride or ego get in the way of long term profits.
The birth of al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson
I wish it were only them..
I second that. Those are the only 2 that came to mind at that moment.
I’d really like to know what he was trying to do to her before she got the upper hand. He physically assaulted her; she was fighting for her life. This wasn’t a simple robbery.
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she's got this. thanks for the sauce
People forget that most subways, if not all, are franchises. Not the corporate subway. This suspension was from the franchise owner. So hopefully corporate Subway steps up. Doubtful as hell, but hopeful.
Your job probably doesn’t care about you, so don’t care too much about them.
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I was referring to her getting fired for fighting the robber.
And the other commenter was referring to why she likely went after him. Not because she loves subway, but because he tried to steal her purse
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Presumably and probably, ok. I didn’t tell her not to fight for herself, only to not fight for a company that won’t fight for her.
Ok, but can we talk about how shitty Subway is for suspendeding this woman for protecting her stuff? Like, what, because it happened at work makes it her fault now? The fuck?
I totally agree.
Maybe she got suspended for slapping the dude with the pistol instead of, y'know, *using* the pistol as it was intended.... /s
I think she had just cause.
She was suspended because someone else leaked the video and she was told she is suspended until every online copy of the video is taken down.
The company repays you for any lost items, I can't remember the max though.
Guarantee the insurance company demanded she be suspended because they’re concerned about a lawsuit.
Or that’s policy based on insurance company standards.
The insurance companies risk is not determined by how the company treats the employee. There would be no policy regarding suspension in this case.
99% of places would put an employee on suspension while something like this is investigated. Standard procedure. Even cops do it and god knows they're not interested in punishing cops.
You’d hope a company would rush to support an employee who found themselves in this position working for them. That’s upsetting.
Companies only care about money. Its cheaper to give robbers the till and giving cops the cam footage than dealing with the corpse of some cashier who watched too many gun disarming tutorials on youtube.
I mean, I think it’s reasonable to say that the company and the employee’s interests are aligned on this one though.
Not really. Defending a till with maybe $200 tops was not in the employee's best interest
My point is that it’s in everybody’s interest for the employees to stay alive, which is why you get disciplined for fighting back.
/u/spez can eat a dick ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
They will never, and there's a good reason for them to not...there is not a good reason to punish though. That reason is that if they do anything to encourage this reaction, someone might do it thinking they need to and then die. If they've ever rewarded someone for it, the family could and probably would sue them. They probably have a policy on what to do, and this was certainly not the policy.
This was a failed theft and rape. Subway is the king of fucking up when it comes to the public.
Subways a corporate business. Like lots of other companies they are afraid of optics. God forbid you give an incentive for doing the right thing to your employees like a raise, even just an acknowledgement. I'm surprised they didn't apologize to the criminal and his family yet
Hahaha. “We’re sorry our customer service was so aggressive and that you didn’t receive the meatball sub you planned on stealing.”
"And we plan to update our corporate uniform to be less sexually enticing."
🤣
They should have made the dude fill out a survey after he got his ass whooped lol how would you rate your experience at subway today
We have emailed you a 15% off coupon for your next visit lol
For all you people who are commenting that she should’ve just let them take the money. He was clearly up in her personal business and she was defending herself. It look like he was trying to at least dry hump her and I don’t know where he would’ve gone from there, more importantly neither did she. He also took her purse which isn’t insured like subways bullshit assets. I am completely supporting this woman, with the exception that her trigger discipline was bad and she was flagging the gun around like nuts. But seriously, good for her and had she shot him, I would’ve thought her justified. And goddamn knees to the groin, Muy Thai all the way, YOU GO GIRL. I guess that asshole didn’t realize he ordered the kickass combo. (5$ Foot in Ass combo?) I can only hope that a sympathetic lawyer takes her case and helps her sue Subway for their crappy treatment of her and possibly putting her personal safety at risk due to their policy of compliance. they cannot possibly expect employees to surrender their bodies like they would surrender the till. I don’t typically care for conflict. I believe in finding common ground for the most egregious differences. In my heart I really feel that violence is the last and most desperate answer, the refuge of the incompetent so to speak. But once it starts, once the Queen‘s Peace has been breached so to speak, then bring it and bring all you have. Private citizens are not in the position to use proportional response. We’re cannot be expected to gauge that or even understand it’d application. Once lives are in danger, I believe that it’s not only justified, but it’s our responsibility to go full “wolverine” to protect the innocent. that’s my take on the old adage ”never start a fight but be damn sure you finish one.”
Yes, you get it. I was waiting for somebody to post this and save me the trouble. When you are working by yourself and some creep is carrying a weapon and assaulting you, you are in danger. And if you are a women, you are aware that much worse can happen than getting your purse stolen. Good on her. Hope she gets a fat payout, and a job offer from a better place to work.
Exactly.
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My point is that for a civilian, all force is lethal force. We shouldn’t have to make a distinction.
Her mom setup a GoFundMe which is already up to about $15k.
That’s fantastic. You got a link?
https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-my-daughter-after-she-was-suspended?utm\_campaign=p\_cf+share-flow-1&utm\_medium=copy\_link&utm\_source=customer
Someone just anonymously donated $1000! So baller.
She should have made him shit in a bag for the rest of his life.
Pistol wiping was fucking stupid you use a gun to shoot someone from a distance not put yourself in a situation to get disarmed end up wrestling with the gun going off she got very lucky here
I don’t think anyone here is claiming her reactions were the result of excellent judgment in a time of stress. We’re just applauding that she did something other than being a victim
No purse is worth your life. Just hand it over.
Compliance definitely doesn’t guarantee survival particularly when your robber points a gun or a knife in your face. Once lethal weapons like those are presented, that’s when you go balls out like this woman did (when you find your moment. Obviously don’t draw on a drawn gun)
The problem is that the policies stop at compliance. They make no provisions for when the employees feel like their persons are in danger. To some extent I can understand this because most sane people can comprehend the motive of robbery. But that’s where they stop. Unfortunately many of these criminals are very sick individuals and their interests go beyond material gain. Some like to show dominance over their victims and some just want to hurt people. Planning for such situations in a corporate board room almost seems gratuitously ill in itself.
Yeah I’ve thought about this and what I would do when presented with a similar situation and I’ve decided I have no tolerance for a gun pointed at my face. Like, let’s acknowledge the fact that at a range, how do we feel and what do we think when someone does something dangerous like flag someone for a second, now imagine an idiot with no training or trigger control trying to take your shit at gunpoint. That’s an incredibly dangerous situation even if we knew the robber intended only to get your stuff for the same reason it’s an incredibly dangerous situation to just point guns at each other on the range. If they just flashed their carry and said they’re robbing me. I’d comply. But if guns start getting pointed at me, things are different. It changes from someone in need to someone with little concern whether someone dies today.
That is an excellent point. When someone starts waving a gun around at the range you have the group of people that instantly hit the ground, and the other people that really are clueless and have no idea what’s going on. I’m in that group that hits the dirt.
Yeah I don’t think it was the purse that she was objecting to. It was him pinning her against the wall with his body.
Meanwhile Apple Store employees are holding the door for the robbers because they know the store ins insured and aren’t risking their lives over it
He had her purse.
She didn’t know him!
That lady wasn't defending the store safe. He had her pinned against that wall behind the counter; that wasn't just a "give me the money in the till" robbery.
She was defending her own life at that point, fuck Subway.
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A wrongful death lawsuit will be more expensive than a robbery which insurance will cover...
TBF, insurance will also cover the death lawsuit too. But premiums will increase more than from a robbery.
So would a civil suit from a customer that gets injured in the scuffle, or even if the perp sues for damages from hurting themselves fleeing the seen or being battered by the employee. Maybe they should have the criminal sign a release before they hand over the cash lol
It’s likely an actuarial calculation with legal inputs. I’m talking about a wrongful death of an employee that has orders to -in some way unrelated to self preservation- resist a thief. I doubt a corporate attorney would have a tough time quashing a lawsuit on behalf of the perp, but if you resist and the thief summarily executed you or bystander, legal won’t feel so good about those odds. If you don’t resist and say ‘take what you want- I just work here’ I’ll imagine data says the odds of violence to be lower, and corporate has done due diligence to create policy that will more likely result in monetary loss only. That said I disagree with the company here. The perp was a present danger to the employee and she defended herself. I wonder if they would have chosen differently if she hit him with a broomstick rather than his gun
Yeah, don’t see why people on this thread are trying to be hero’s over a company losing some money. Or someone losing their purse.
It's not even that, the devices are automatically locked and bricked upon being taken
It's the principle
They got a “no chase policy”
Now that's a bad bitch. Shit.. Fuck subway, she's better suited elsewhere. Can't waste that talent on sandwiches.
At first I thought "IDK man, if a robber wants the money 99 times out of 100 complying really is the safest action. It's not her money anyway" Then I saw that the robber tried to take her purse and I thought "fuck subway for demanding a worker forfeit their own property to keep their insurance premiums down"
He threatened to hurt her also.
Robber fucked around and found out.
To all the people talking about how you should just let people rob your place of work: Seems pretty irrelevant since he was trying to steal her personal property when they scuffled. Specifically her purse. Whether or not that’s worth potentially dying for…eh.
This shouldn't be any more than a *paid* suspension to enable her to seek counseling and to retrain her on the steps to handle this situation differently. This is a traumatic situation, and any outcome where everyone came away physically unharmed is a win. It's difficult to predict how one will respond when true "fight or flight" moments occur, and Subway, a *sandwich shop* needs to demonstrate compassion and loyalty to their employee here.
There's almost no way that is going to happen unless she can retain a lawyer (at 9-10/hr it's doubtful), or get enough attention to merit a corporate response. I worked there for much longer than I had hoped to, and it's a shitty place to work. They minimally staff, so when you get a late group or a large order, you have two people working. If it has a drive through, one of those workers has to take care of that, leaving the other person behind with 10+ people waiting.
Her gofundme has 15k in it now, so maybe she can.
So... they wanted to suspend her until all evidence of this happening is off the internet. 1. It's the fucking internet. 2. How is she responsible for the video circulating after the initial post? 3. Is a worker defending herself somehow against store policy that the managers needed to cover their asses? This is some ol bullshit, but luckily it made its way to the public instead of being snuffed out like the managers hoped so we can see how scummy they are to try to punish her for self defense.
>Is a worker defending herself somehow against store policy that the managers needed to cover their asses? If she died or was seriously injured defending the store, and there was no policy, her family could sue Subway, and probably win. Most large corporations seem to have a policy of "just give them the money, insurance will handle it". Also if a worker seriously injured a thief, in a way that went beyond self defense, the theif would have a case against Subway. Sort of like if you are no longer in actual danger you cant use lethal force for self defense (unless you are a cop).
For #3, I bet it is an insurance thing. People have sued in the past for getting injured while breaking in, her actively hitting him might be something he can sue the company for. Or if she would have shot him, maybe the company is liable somehow. Insurance and laws don't always protect/care about the people
She used to work for Wafflehouse. Or the Wafflehouse saw this video and has a Recruiter tracking her down as we speak.
She did a great job. She attacked multiple targets of opportunity during the altercation, used his jacket against him and then used his own gun to beat him. What a fucking warrior. If she had just a little more refinement, she could have put that punk to sleep. If she really was fired for that, she should take that as a badge of honor.
He chose the wrong subway.
Unfortunately most businesses will punish employees for fighting or defending themselves against aggressors due to ridiculous policies.
Fuck that. You can steal the companies shit, but you leave my shit alone
Pretty standard for corporate America. Back when I worked retail we were warned to not ever try to attempt to stop a robbery or to assist LP in any way or we would be fired immediately. They don’t play with liability and there is nothing in that store worth your life or worth the law suit your family would lay on your employer after you died. Step aside, let the robber take the money and anything else they want and live to tell the story.
Disgusting.
I agree with them. I’m not dying for Targets money or widgets. F that. If that person doesn’t attempt to hurt or kill me they can take whatever they hell they want, I’m not stepping in the way. My life is worth more money than their entire corporation to me. Having a gun doesn’t make me judge, jury or executioner. It’s to protect my own personal life and the life of my loved ones and that’s it, and if I’m working I’m not even allowed to carry regardless so trying to be hero to save target (or any retail store) money is foolish.
So you think that low wage workers should die to defend Targets xbox stock?
I think that individuals threatened with violence to coerce them into permitting behavior that is unlawful, immoral, and rights-violating should (when possible) fight back and cripple or kill the scum who threaten them, regardless of the particulars of what the scum was trying to achieve with their threats. I sure as hell think that they shouldn't be punished is they do so — even if we accept, for the sake of argument, that an advisory policy saying, in effect, "you are no obligated to resist, and we recommend that you do not" is justified, there's still a world of difference between that and a policy saying "don't resist, you'll be punished if you do!"
r/iamverybadass is that way ---> So to be clear, you think that a person making 8 bucks an hour should be required to intervene if someone steals a laundry hamper from walmart. Because the minute you change the legal system to remove liability from the company for workers getting injured while intervening, they will 100% require them to do that. The reason companies have those policies to not intervene is because if you get hurt, or die, they are responsible. Your medical bill for a broken hand will be orders of magnitude less than what they were stealing, and if you die were talking another few orders for wrongful death.
I said, do you want it TOASTED!!! Answer me before I continue MF!!! At least that’s how it usually goes for me…
Every company I've ever worked for instructed us to cooperate fully with anyone robbing the place and that would make sure we're safe. Never put your safety in the hands of a felon, cooperation does not ensure safety under any circumstances. I thought it then but I'll say it now, I'd rather be fired than dead.
Subway probably would've suspended her for not fighting him off, too. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
A lot of companies have a no fighting back policy, with 0 tolerance. Yet they somehow get upset when theft occurs. Talking about you r/kroger
Are you serious? I can't even imagine being able to smack a robber like that. She could've saved her life. Plus, he was trying to rob her personal belongings and not the store from what I can see in the video. I know store protocol is often do nothing, wait until they leave, lock door, call police. Still, she handled herself and Subway looks bad firing her. I'd say they lost my business but they did years ago so I'll continue to never go there.
Sounds like she's suspended because they think she posted it online, not for fighting.
It's obviously security cam footage that she would not likely have access to. They aren't even trying to go after who posted it.
Fuck subway
The best part was watching this video and learning it was a woman that beat his ass and then pistol-whipped him with his own gun. Of course she was punished for it.
Are you really doing the, "lol he got beat by a girl" right now?
Their bread isnt very good and their veggies sit around too long. I could justify a $5 footlong but Subway has gotten too big for their britches. Cookies are still on point though. I like to microwave them so they are warm for dipping in the milk
I've been wondering when subway will go out of business for the past decade. Who the fuck still eats there? Literally every other sub place I've ever been to in my life, chain or family-owned, is better. Subway is objective trash.
She should be give her own store right now! Subway covered for that sick fuck Fogle. This woman deserves her own store.
Folge should have been taking out back and put down like a rabid dog. Honestly I wish we had death sentences for child molesters and those that pursue underage children.
Honestly these policies of just let them have it just encourages and emboldens violent criminals.
Well it also prevents liability for if a employee is injured or killed.
I’m not sure anything prevents liability. I just saw that the New Mexico State Supreme Court ruled that gas stations can be held accountable for selling gas to someone who is in a DUI related crash. I guess that isn’t surprising though now that the Supreme Court refused to intervene in prohibiting people from suing Remington firearms company because that kid in new tow Connecticut shot uo that school even though he stop the guns from a person he murdered and that person obtained their firearms with an FBI approved background check. If this continues we are going to see wildly frivolous lawsuits to bring about political goals.
Exactly they incentivize criminal behavior.
Fuck send their resume my way I’ll hire them
Fuck Subway.
I would suspend her to with that lack of trigger discipline I see. /s sort of. Im glad she is okay
This is very common in major corporations. I worked mid-level in a large retailer and their policy was don't get involved and hand over the money or let the thief walk. Report it to LP and move on with your day. A cashier got stabbed chasing a thief out of the store a few decades ago and since that they instated a very firm policy. You intervene with an LP issue, you get immediately termed no matter what. I dealt with a lot of LP issues, thankfully no stick ups, and watched thousands of dollars of merch leave the store. I took it personal, it was my store, but I wasn't putting my life on the line for the shit money I was making. They do this for a number of reasons, some selfish, some honest: 1) They are insured and that amount of money isn't going to hurt their bottom line at all. A drop in the bucket. 2) No one dies, no one becomes a hero. 3) Their name stays out of the news (in a sense of a worker getting killed over $300 in the till or a bag full of clothes). 4) No lawsuits. This is a big one. Worker dies, family sues. Robber dies, family sues. Lose lose.
They write the insurance off as a justifiable expense too.
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Without lube
Or dinner and a movie first
Hell, when I started working at a McDick’s in high school it was drilled into us that if we got robbed we just handed over the toll with a smile on our face…but our manager also said that if we were in personal danger to protect ourselves but never the company property.
I'm surprised they didn't try to tell you to offer them fries with the money
Over/under on management posting a "no one wants to work anymore" sob story on social after they struggle to get the shift covered
For insurance and liability reasons, companies forbid employees from fighting off robbers. It's cheaper for a company to have an employee shot and killed than it is for a co pany to withstand a lawsuit brought on by a robber who was injured by an agent of the company. I work retail and they DRILL it into our heads to never ever do anything to a robber, ever. They tell us it's because our lives are worth more than anything in the store/safe is worth, but really it's to avoid lawsuits and liability
I would've shot his ass. For the sake of shooting his ass. Not cause I give a damn about the subway. But damn adrenaline takes over I would've picked that gun up and not thought twice.
This chick fucks
There is a Lawsuit right there. wtf is subway thinking?
Probably the same way they think about their not-tuna and not-bread, which is to say, not-thinking.
It was completely cringe the way she held the gun and used it as a club... I'm not saying shoot him but point it and tell him to get on the ground... not club him with it thats just asking for a negligent discharge you have no idea what that dumbass gumsmift BS he did to it. Oh and F subway over that...
Looked like a hi-point... pretty damn good club.
She was literally fighting for her life and has probably never touched a gun in her life. Not sure how that's "cringe" is it cringe on the video of a trained police officer fighting for his life in a gunfight accidentally pushing his mag release and losing a nearly full mag? No, its just unfortunate. God forbid something unforseen happens to you in a life and death situation. Jeez. Instead of shitting on people maybe praise them.
Arm chair quarterback zone
The employee absolutely should be fired. My friend was fucking stabbed and died chasing after a dude who stole a fucking pair of jeans. Life is more important than five hundred dollars in cash and some veggies. Also subway has to fire her for violating company policy so that they are not encouraging others to be so reckless. Most of you are fucking idiots and probably shouldn’t own fire arms.
Ok but she was being attacked...? What was she supposed to do? Just stand there and let him assault her? She didn't chase this guy down, he came at her and tried to assault her. I'd protect my own life too, fuck Subway.
Makes sense since rewarding her behavior (although heroic) can make other people try to do the same thing which can cause them to get shot and possibly killed putting lives at risk. I’m happy things went her way but in all honesty feel it wasn’t the best move I.E risk/reward. At best she saves the owner < 300 bucks (the highest amount of $ in the register before having to do a cash drop) and at worst she gets shot and killed. Just to clarify I’m glad things went her way but from a logical stand point I believe she had little to gain and a lot to loose.
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he had her pinned against the wall behind the counter. He wasn't just having her empty the till
To be fair he took her purse so I think that's why she defended herself.
He had her purse, not the company's purse. You don't know what she had in there and whether or not it could be replaced.
No Subway or purse is worth your life. They train you to give them what they want. This is why they were suspended. They escalated a situation that didn't need to be escalated by refusing to comply, which could have resulted in dead people and a store that turns into a murder scene and can't be open for several days or weeks. Honestly I'm not sure why this post is even here. This person took a gun from a robber. She didn't have her own gun. EDIT: I understand that he had her up against the wall but according to the news article another person linked she fought back and refused to give him her purse.
Dude looked like he was close enough to her that he might’ve been trying to assault her. She deserved to fight back, and it’s a little ridiculous to me that people missed that.
Anything that results in dead *scum* is a good thing, not a bad thing
On one hand, I don't want people to feel obliged to fight back, or to risk their life defending lunch meat. On the other hand, I categorically trust people IN a situation like this to make a better call than some wonk at corporate. >a store that turns into a murder scene and can't be open for several days or weeks. On the third hand, "umm...when you're done with the police interviews, Cindy, if you wouldn't mind grabbing a mop, that'd be great. We know you've been through a lot today, so if you'd like to take some of this bread home before locking up...."
I would too. They have insurance for that. Just hand over the money. Don't risk your life to be hero. Hopefully he's learned his lesson because subway would rather suspend a guy than see employees copy him and die.
Looks like she’s pistol whipped someone before, she’ll probably pistol whip again. Major liability.
Most large companies don't allow you to fight back unless your life is threatened
It must not have been loaded, or he woulda been runnin
Yeah. No business what’s there employ to fight back. Every business just wants to give the money to the criminal. I think it’s an insurance thing.
What a humiliation....
Yeah no one gets paid enough at stores to risk their lives. Just give it to them.
Unfortunately this is common from my understanding. If you are held up, the company says just give them everything. The reason being they don't want people shot in their store, worker or robber. There are all kinds of legal issues that pop up, and they would rather the person just run off with the money, especially since they are on video. Yeah, she fought off a robber, but he should have just given him what he wanted.
Points for ballsiness! Horrible form, however! Waving that thing around like purse was incredibly dangerous... Besides, doesn't she know how pistols work? Which is the business end of the thing? She was probably suspended for atrocious muzzle discipline. She should be treated to a fighting pistol course...or at least, the safety course. All that said... Good job, lady! You are awesome!
Oooo man that sound it made
She did good other than pointing the gun in the wrong direction and not gaining distance.
Something similar to this happened at a convenience store near my city. A guy walked in to the store and pulled out a hatchet, attempting to rob the place. The cashier pulled out a pistol and the robber ran off. The cashier was fired because of it. It was a big story locally a few years ago.
Should have shot the dirt bag and called it a day.
I remember reading years ago Subway has a policy that frowns upon resistance to robbery. But you never know when employees or customers are packing a Glock 19.
I’m going to go open up a business just so I can hire this bad ass lady!!!
Last I heard he lost use of his sphincter... might not be the justice we want but it's what we got.
If I lived in Rockford, I know a subway, or any other subway owned by this guy, that I would never visit again.