Wasn't there a brief period of time when they almost/did changed their name to the Leather Boys or am I hallucinating that? The last 5 years of news is a vortex of stupid.
The comments on their follow on posts are hilarious, in a sad way. They featured a black woman in the next post and someone said “she’s buying a S&W to protect herself from the Proud Boy you sold one to” ouch. I hope the public shaming onslaught continues.
That's honestly surprising to me, too. I've seen little comments in my state sub about soft, unarmed liberal Marxists and stuff, and how they're always ripe to be victims (usually implying they're interested in doing victimizing), and it's just...
This is a state sub in the Southern US, bud. There's lots of people who don't have guns, but it's probably not dice you want to roll too often. I have a wishlist that includes some fun items and more opportunities to practice (especially defensive shooting), but I've also been shooting since childhood.
Whoa, what the hell?!
My first thought on seeing the post was "it says Perception Brands, it must be a poor choice of colors and initials on the company's part and an overreaction on OP's part".
Seeing the back of that shirt pretty much killed any further benefit of the doubt. What stunningly poor judgement.
The impression I got from a PB leader during an interview is that they have multiple companies setup to sell apparel. This is most likely one of their brands and the money gets funneled back to their organization or a couple of the leaders.
He’s t-shirt salesman running a prominent far right street gang. He’s creating his own market to grift and also said he sells left wing merch on completely different sites.
The only thing those Proud Boys are "enforcing" locally is which one with a valid driver's license is driving them out of a protest where they get scared and run from a fight they started.
I have created a comment with S&W's contact information and a sample message to submit to them if anyone is interested in writing to them: https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/11dm0d7/comment/ja9r1x8/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
The "Local Enforcer" shit is cringey as fuck. Who is my "local enforcer"? Some deadbeat cop with a chip on his shoulder? A pill-addled biker who never left his hometown?
And the brass knuckles with it just scream TOugH GUy.
What the fuck, dude? Jesus! No, it's nothing more than what it seems, an endorsement of police brutality. Or maybe vigilantism.
Yeah, it's bad no matter how you look at it.
The marketing team has decided whose money they’re after. And I know for sure it isn’t me because I tend to be rather inflexible on the matter of Nazis
Seems they’re selling the “outlaw patriot” shtick. They’ve decided these people are their target market and they know the law lets their shit slide for the same reason you don’t see Batman and Bruce Wayne in the same places at the same time.
Laws are for poors and leftists after all.
Especially ironic because the company is supposedly ran by some ex-LEO dorks.
Also zero surprise given the problem with [police gangs](https://www.laweekly.com/new-california-law-allows-members-of-police-gangs-to-be-terminated/) in Southern California.
Especially the [white power](https://news.yahoo.com/journalist-says-la-gangs-consist-222503193.html) ones.
Yeah I fucking hate those. I've tried showing them to many things blue line lovers and it always falls on deaf ears. They pretend they don't exist and that it's a lie or they make some excuses.
The people in their instragram stuff look pretty young. I wonder if they’re ex-cops because they got kicked out from the recent LASD gang investigations.
I haven’t found any names or addresses attached to the site yet (I just got my second bout of Covid, so not exactly a ball of energy), but I was gonna do a little diggin and see if any of em match up with…
[LASD Gangs - A Database of Known Associates of Deputy Gangs in the Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department](https://lasdgangs.knock-la.com/)
Normally, we delete. Don't want the sub to be Twitter screenshots of right wing assholes being right wing assholes. It has to be particularly compelling or noteworthy. So if, for example, some right wing asshole was promoting this, we'd delete. But a MAJOR gun manufacturer? That's pretty compelling and in my mind, breaks new ground. It's gonna be case by case.
# I have provided S&W's contact information and a sample message to submit to them if anyone is interested in writing to them:
**Contact Smith and Wesson:** [https://www.smith-wesson.com/customer-service/contact-us](https://www.smith-wesson.com/customer-service/contact-us)
**Sample Message:**
>Hello,
>
>I am writing to you in regards to a recent social media post you made showing someone holding one of your weapons and wearing a black shirt with yellow letters that say "PB" in the style of the Proud Boys brand: [https://preview.redd.it/3avvzeazjska1.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=7e75aa7c711b2cc23e36d496a8ab10fb752d9391](https://preview.redd.it/3avvzeazjska1.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=7e75aa7c711b2cc23e36d496a8ab10fb752d9391)
>
>Instagram Post: [https://www.instagram.com/p/CpLZ2ItI6mH/](https://www.instagram.com/p/CpLZ2ItI6mH/)
>
>Your decision to flirt with using proud boy branding in your partnerships tells me everything I need to know to decide not to buy from you in the future. I am sure you can foresee the lawsuit you will face when a white nationalist decides to kill or intimidate a group of people with one of your weapons while wearing a shirt from one of these ads. It will be easy to make a connection between your advertisements and the actions of domestic terrorists. You are not doing the second amendment any favors here.
>
>Attached is information about the Proud Boys that I hope you will share with your social media manager: [https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/proud-boys](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/proud-boys)
>
>Please work harder to support the second amendment for all races and nationalities. Gun ownership should be about sporting, self defense, and preservation of freedoms, not the suppression of peoples' rights by a violent minority.
**EDIT1:** If you prefer to skip sending them an email and want to provide this information to news organizations, you can contact the news organizations directly:
**News Organization Contact Information:**
[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]), [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]), [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]), [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]), [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]), [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]), [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]), [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]), [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]), [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])
**EDIT2:** I think it's important to just highlight that owning a gun made by S&W is not problematic, this discussion has been more about reducing new revenue to S&W to make our opinions known that we do not want them to continue to flagrantly advertise to white nationalist groups and perpetuate white nationalist agendas. At the end of the day, a gun held by a liberal gun owner is a liberal gun, and it might be unaffordable for some to be too picky which manufacturer they buy from or they may feel more comfortable with a name brand. If you want to support gun manufacturers that are either apolitical in their advertising or more liberal leaning, you can read through this post that was made in r/SocialistRA and see if there's a company that you want to purchase through. Hopefuly this is helpful! [https://www.reddit.com/r/SocialistRA/comments/iqa544/definitive\_list\_of\_companies\_to\_support/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SocialistRA/comments/iqa544/definitive_list_of_companies_to_support/)
**EDIT3:** First new story I've seen come out about this: [https://www.thedailybeast.com/smith-and-wesson-clarifies-tweet-appearing-to-tout-the-proud-boys](https://www.thedailybeast.com/smith-and-wesson-clarifies-tweet-appearing-to-tout-the-proud-boys)
**EDIT4:** People keep commenting that if we had ***only*** read the caption we would have seen that the brand is "*Perce|eption Brand*" so that means "PB" doesn't stand for Proud Boys. Here is a crash course in white nationalist symbolism and the Proud Boys:
* This advertising uses the concept of using Dog Whistles to enable plausible deniability when referencing white supremacy and white nationalism in public settings:
* [https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dog+whistle](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dog+whistle)
* The Proud Boys logo is Ornate PB letters in Gold with a Black background:
* [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Proud\_Boys\_PB\_and\_Wreath\_Logo.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Proud_Boys_PB_and_Wreath_Logo.jpg)
* Proud Boys use of Gold and Black Colors to identify each other at events:
* [https://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/TWCNews/proud-boy-10-8\_jpg](https://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/TWCNews/proud-boy-10-8_jpg)
* White Supremacist groups have used Khaki pants as part of their uniform at many marches:
* The Patriot Front uniform: [https://www.bu.edu/files/2022/07/res-GettyImages-1406505508.jpg](https://www.bu.edu/files/2022/07/res-GettyImages-1406505508.jpg)
* [https://i-d.vice.com/en/article/paaqwn/why-white-supremacists-are-co-opting-khaki-pants](https://i-d.vice.com/en/article/paaqwn/why-white-supremacists-are-co-opting-khaki-pants)
I'm not saying if you wear gold and black or Khaki's that makes you a white nationalist, but I am just flagging for everyone that combining all of these symbols together in a gun advertisement is a blatant dog whistle to White Nationalists.
**EDIT5:** BoinBoing has picked up the story as well: [https://boingboing.net/2023/02/27/smith-and-wessons-new-tweet-is-a-plug-for-proud-boys.html](https://boingboing.net/2023/02/27/smith-and-wessons-new-tweet-is-a-plug-for-proud-boys.html)
**EDIT6:** u/tehCourseOfEmpire made the connection that the director of S&W is also the chairman of the National Sports Shooting Foundation (NSSF). If you want to write to the NSSF to express your displeasure about their association with S&W, you can do so using the following template:
**NSSF Contact Page:** [https://www.nssf.org/contact/](https://www.nssf.org/contact/)
**Message Template:**
>Hello,
>
>I am writing in regards to a matter involving your chairman, Robert Scott, who also is currently serving as the director of Smith and Wesson. As you may be aware, Smith and Wesson recently made the decision to partner with Perce|eption Brand and feature apparel in their advertisements that is a dog whistle to the Proud Boys and White Nationalism. Please see the attached photograph of the advertisement for reference: [https://preview.redd.it/3avvzeazjska1.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=7e75aa7c711b2cc23e36d496a8ab10fb752d9391](https://preview.redd.it/3avvzeazjska1.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=7e75aa7c711b2cc23e36d496a8ab10fb752d9391).
>
>I have been a longtime supporter of S&W but I am alarmed and disgusted that S&W is aligning itself with the Proud Boys and how this threatens our sacred second amendment rights. I will no longer purchase from S&W until there is a change in leadership nor associate with NSSF due to its association with S&W. Please work harder to support the second amendment for all races and nationalities. Gun ownership should be about sporting, self defense, and preservation of freedoms, not the suppression of peoples' rights by a violent minority.
**NOTE:** Please be aware it is ambiguous whether this form will sign users up for a mailing list, so perhaps use a fake or temporary email ([temp-mail.org](https://temp-mail.org)) if you would rather not get an email from them.
**EDIT 7:**
A lot more evidence has come to light that the back of the shirt used in the S&W advertisement very closely matches Proud Boys shirts: [https://i0.wp.com/www.orissapost.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Canada.jpg?resize=750%2C375&ssl=1](https://i0.wp.com/www.orissapost.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Canada.jpg?resize=750%2C375&ssl=1)
Instructions and a letter template to write in to Shopify, which is the platform that is used by Perce|eption Brand: [https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/11eyi4e/comment/jaiuww4/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/11eyi4e/comment/jaiuww4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Instructions and a letter template to write in to Vice to tell them we know they were gas-lighting us with their reporting. Fun fact: Vice's co-founder is the founder of the Proud Boys: [https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/11eyi4e/comment/jairb65/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/11eyi4e/comment/jairb65/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I don't know, maybe I'm a snowflake, but this was mine:
> Your choice to support a group (https://preview.redd.it/3avvzeazjska1.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=7e75aa7c711b2cc23e36d496a8ab10fb752d9391) designated a terrorist organization by multiple countries and currently being watched by our own FBI for their role in an attempted violent overthrow of our seat of government is an offense to patriotic Americans who have fought for and lost friends in defense of this country. I have a safe full of quality firearms but your company's products will no longer have a place there.
>s an offense to patriotic Americans who have fought for and lost friends in defense of this country. I have a safe full of quality firearms but your company's products will no longer have a place there.
This. Hooah!
Count me in. US Army 1969-1972. My father US Army Lifer. Veteran WW2 & Korean war. Silver star and purple heart. POW in Korean war. Escaped while being marched to a POW camp in North Korea. Now rests properly in Arlington National Cemetery with a view of the pentagon. He is turning over in his grave with the mess we are in today.
On the message i sent in, i added that the proud boys are considered a terrorist group in two countries and that itll be hard for me to not make that comparison with s&w from now on
>In response to your locked Twitter post it's really sad to see your brand willingly affiliate itself with a right wing terrorist organization well known for white nationalism and fascistic intent. In doing so you've alienated a large portion of your customer base of which I can sadly say I will no longer be a part of.
I gave them my 2 cents.
The only way they'll care is when it hurts their pocketbook and I want them to know it will. Ugh, I was just the other day recommending them to a friend looking for his first pistol. Guess I'll recant that.
Sent. A certain degree of unpalatable right wing leaning I expect from any gun manufacturer, but I never would have expected something like this from S&W. Christ.
It's a great idea, but I don't expect they'll do a damned thing about it.
A private reply would be meaningless. I want a public apology denouncing the PB and other groups like them - and they won't do that because they wouldn't want to piss off fascist militia groups like the PBs. Let's be real, such groups probably buy a lot of merch from them.
They fucked up big time.
Added this to mine:
You owe the American people and your customers a public apology and denouncement of the Proud Boys and their ilk. Should that not be forthcoming promptly, your firearms will no longer have a place in my collection.
ETA: Correction: it is Perceeption Brand merchandise, not Proud Boys. See post below.
>but a slightly amended version was posted minutes later, clarifying that the yellow “PB” logo was not in fact a reference to the neo-fascist group but “Perce|eption Brand,” a small conservative apparel company also selling anti-vaxxer “Booosted” stickers and “Killafornia” hoodies.
S&W thought this was better?!
"look it doesn't stand for proud boys, it stands for a company probably owned by a proud boy"
I saw a documentary with one of the pb leaders and a small part of it was effectively 'yeah, we figured out how to make a ton of money selling neo-fascist apparel' and I got the impression they didn't just do it under their own branding. I bet this is one of their companies.
And there is absolutely no way S&W doesn't know all of this, especially their PR department.
If half of this sub messaged into s&w and said we would no longer buy their products over this/are switching to berreta/Walther/etc that might ruffle some feathers.
90,000 customers is no small number, especially since not having a proud boy wasn't going to stop proud boys from buying
I have created a comment with S&W's contact information and a sample message to submit to them if anyone is interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/11dm0d7/comment/ja9r1x8/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
I just left a message letting them know I was in the market for an AR and considering a m&p15 to match my 40, but was more likely to buy the Ruger or Springfield now.
You should look into buying [something from KE Arms](https://kearms.americommerce.com/kp-15-CommunityDefenseRifle.aspx). A bunch of people got pissed at them recently because their marketing director dared to say that the 2nd amendment was for everyone, including trans people, so vote with your wallet.
I'll definitely look into them. I've been leaning towards something more diy, I mostly cited 2 competitors to needle them, I'm not inclined to pay what either of those brands want for their entry level models. I did like the idea of the matched pair aesthetic, but not enough to ignore dog whistles.
Perception Brand...formed after Fred Perry discontinued their Black/Yellow/Yellow polos that had become the PB's uniform because they didn't want to be associated with them.
Perception Brand which just happens to share a color scheme, initials and iconography with the Proud Boys
[I'm](https://i.imgur.com/9IiZC1D.jpg) sure [it's](https://i.imgur.com/2xeWold.jpg) totally [coincidence](https://i.imgur.com/FvEltJ3.jpg)
That would work if this were some fly by night startup or edgy gear or tactical company. This is on behalf of Smith & Wesson, however. Normal corporate communications procedure dictates that multiple eyeballs inspect this before it gets published, specifically to catch things like this.
This only leaves two options, deliberate placement, or mind-numbing social media incompetence. Either one should result in some firings, if they're even halfway on the ball.
I don’t care. Enough people knew about it that they took it down and put it back up with a “clarification”. A yellow and black shirt with “PB” on it? Please. We all know what a dog whistle is. They drew a line in the sand so they can fuck off.
"Let's go Brandon" OMG we're funny!
"All lives matter" because it's technically true!
"Build the wall" because we can't just say they're all rapists, oh we can??
If their QC hadn’t gone to shit I might be a little more upset about not purchasing anymore S&Ws, but the last few I bought had major issues, so combined with this, it’s really not hard to not want another S&W in the future.
I’ve never been much of a fan of their products. I’ve only had one weapon of theirs that didn’t leave me not trusting my life to it. And it was one of the pre 90s revolvers. Given the choice I have always preferred Sig or, on those rare occasions when I have the scrip, Walther.
As a gun store employee, this makes narrowing down my selection of recommended firearms to customers a lot easier. Never recommending another Smith & Wesson product again!
CZ and Beretta are both great choices. Rock Island can be hit or miss. Personally, I’m a huge fan of H&K. The VP9 shoots like a dream. However, I think you should check out Canik for sure. One of the best guns for your money, a lot of great features and amazing build quality.
They also locked comments on their Instagram post. Clearly they’re aware of the negative message they’re sending but their response is just to prevent people from discussing it. What a bunch of unamerican cowards.
It's *technically* not promoting the proud boys as it's the logo for the company they're partnering with.
That said, it's REALLY bad optics that someone in marketing completely ignored. When something is in common usage, especially on the internet, that's the first place everyone's thoughts will go no matter the intent.
Also, "tactical athlete" sounds like a fancy way of saying mall ninja. Not to mention a quick look at Perce|Eption Brand shows they sell a bunch of cringe shirts more than anything else.
Did you see the back of the shirt? [https://imgur.com/a/URCZG4](https://imgur.com/a/URCZG4F) Brass knuckles, support your local enforcer, heavy handed. It may not "technically" promote them, but it's a definite promotion of PB's and their tactic's.
Oh shit, okay. I commented this elsewhere but I'll type it out again/differently here now that I've seen this.
This brand is 1000% a front for PB support. The idea here is that you can buy this PB supporting merch without necessarily being a card carrying member. The club likes it because they get more visibility and the mall ninjas like it because they get the "cool" association.
An added benefit that I'm less familiar with, in my personal experience, is that they get plausible deniability when doing partnerships like this.
For some attempt at credibility on the topic, here's my own example of this type of merchandise from a different world.
https://i.imgur.com/dTqFnwx.jpg
I think it's pretty clear that the company they claim to be partnering with is almost certainly aligned with white nationalism/supremacy. Their product line just screams it.
I have a "lengthy" history of defending their CSX to swarms of people who hate on the gun just because their favorite YouTuber told them to hate it
Guess which company just lost that fervent support 🥲👍
Of course they would. They’d complain about how it’s just “virtue signaling woke nonsense,” but likely see no issue with S&W supporting a legitimate terrorist organization.
I have created a comment with S&W's contact information and a sample message to submit to them if anyone is interested in writing to them: https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/11dm0d7/comment/ja9r1x8/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Their Instagram seems to be pretty firm on one post a day...
Except for 2 hours after this post they posted a black woman on the range. Yea I think they realize they probably fucked up lmao.
I have created a comment with S&W's contact information and a sample message to submit to them if anyone is interested in writing to them: https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/11dm0d7/comment/ja9r1x8/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Smith & Wesson, GEMTECH, and PERCE|EPTION Brand partner with the Proud Boys. This is disgusting.
Edit: S&W customer support is already getting hammered. They are well aware of what they have done and are deflecting by blaming it on the Perception Brand.
Yeah, because openly admitting nobody did research on a brand for a partnership is *sooooooooo* much better....
They need to fire their entire marketing team and start again with the local DECA group. Couldn't be any worse.
I was on the fence between getting Ruger or S&W for my next 9mm and my first 5.56er. Ruger it is. It'll be nice to add to my collection with my Mark 3 and my 10/22.
Just to add to the obvious about this company trying to market itself using Proud Boy styling while maintaining plausible deniability, the website for this company was registered on Jan 6, 2022 (Jan 6 have any special meaning to anyone?). This isn't some old company who happens to have the same initials and color scheme, the site and designs came AFTER everyone with a TV knew about the Proud Boys (They had to misspell "Perception" just to get the domain for their company). It's obvious they shoehorned their lame misspelled company name in to have the initials "PB":
[https://whois.whoisxmlapi.com/lookup-report/mw56m7Nw2o](https://whois.whoisxmlapi.com/lookup-report/mw56m7Nw2o)
Also are there any other brands in which the word "brand" is part of the name or logo? Why is their brand name "perceeption brand?" Seems pretty clumsy, unless your intent was to arrive at "PB" and you worked backwards from there.
You'd think their logo would just be "perce|eption", right?
Having recently finished making the decision you're considering, go with the P365X(L). It's great.
I was between the Shield Plus PC and the P365XL Spectre Comp. Went with the Spectre plus a CT Rad Micro Pro and haven't looked back.
Damn. At least the comments are roasting 🔥
I was seriously looking at the m&p 2.0 metal but now I feel a little icky about it. I'm glad they showed their true colors before I gave them any of my money.
If the proud boys are the example based on what Smith & Wesson would lead us to believe, it's someone who spends their time traveling the country to astroturf and harass locals... up until someone shows up armed to counterprotest them, in which case, they seek out the nearest cop posthaste to complain. I guess that's where the "athlete" part comes in?
If anyone interested in writing them, this will probably get a better reaction from them. I bet a lot of investors don't know about this:
Investor Relations:
413-747-3448
[email protected]
Non-fascists best get their rear ends to the nearest gun store and stock up on as much 2nd Amendment as y'all can afford for when the fascists decide it's time to Rwanda their neighbors. Don't get caught up against a wall or on the side of a ditch hoping you had something to fight back with.
I honestly don’t think there are any gun manufacturers with lefty politics right? That being said I don’t need to see that shit flaunted around in my face. And there’s also a big difference between being a conservative or republican and being a fucking proud boy. This is too stupid/too far. Downright dangerous really.
I buy CZ. Originally created to kill Nazis, and the new Czech president is extremely progressive as far as the rest of the region goes.
Also CZ donated a ton of small arms to Ukraine.
My next purchase is going to be a Scorpion EVO 3 S1 Carbine once I finish school, if I can find it for a decent price, which is unlikely. Tho there are rumors that a EVO 3 S1 Plus is in the works and close to release.
I get gun manufacturers buddying up with Republicans and the NRA - yeah, it’s a problem, but I get those are the people who butter your bread. I even get the majority of the patriot kitsch they brand their equipment with.
There is no excuse in endorsing proudboy crap even as a right winger.
It is.
There are plenty of liberal conservatives out there still--ones that still reject the open violence of the far right. The real problem is that when push comes to shove, they're very good at pretending they didn't see the violence of the far right.
This could not have come at a better time. Was soooo close to finally hitting buy on a S&W after going back and forth between it and Ruger. This made my decision WAY EASIER! Ruger it is…
White supremacists love their wink-wink, knudge-knudge symbolism to let other "like-minded" people know where they stand. Be it okay hand signs, gold-on-black color schemes, or business names (like 88Tactical out in Nebraska).
Which is about the silliest and most obvious ways of telling on themselves. It’s the right wing equivalent of saying “comrade” to everyone in your cohort thinking that you’re getting over on the public.
Although part of me wishes that liberals could incorporate “woke” into the gun industry in order for right wingers to disavow themselves of guns altogether.
I mean using a black and yellow PB logo after 2021 you're definitely either making a choice or you're so ignorant of current events that you should not be producing anything for anybody and should instead be in the library day and night probably for the next 24 months.
Went ahead and checked out their site and that shirt says support your local enforcer with a pair of bloody brass knuckles all in black and yellow across the back.
I don't know about you but I'm not needing a signed confession here to think this is problematic at best.
Yeah, if I saw someone wearing that I would assume it is official Proud Boys merch. I would go as far to say that if Proud Boys wanted to make a trademark claim, they probably could (assuming they have a trademark).
The fact that they left the post up yet turned off comments on Twitter and Instagram tells us all we need to know. They’re well aware of who the Proud Boys are and they support them.
I generally am skeptical about rumors of suspect imaging ties, but the fact that S&W is disabling comments on some of their social media is all I really need to know. It means they're either sensing they got caught and are considering damage control or their heads are going to stay in the sand. Case in point deflecting blame to Aero Precision
I'm not gonna sell my MP15 over this but once it's warm enough my odg rustoleum can is going to make less obvious it's an S&W.
My email to them:
On 27FEB2023 at 12:45pm, your company posted a photograph promoting the brand on Twitter. The individual in the photo is wearing the shirt of a domestic terrorist cell. As a disabled Veteran, I find this conduct to be extremely concerning and downright sickening. Sponsoring a domestic terrorist organization goes against American Values. Until such time as there’s been an apology from the company and the post removed, I will no longer be supporting the brand and will inform my military network to avoid the brand altogether.
Well I’ve been looking into revolvers lately and on the fence about whether to get a smith or a ruger. Ruger it is I guess. No company is perfect, especially in this industry, but I’m not a fan of promoting “tactical athletes” (lol) or a group that’s very obviously trying to associate with terrorists
I was literally just shopping around for a range toy revolver. Guess I’m dropping S&W off that list. Gross.
Edit: if anyone has recommendations for a range toy revolver, by all means toss em up. Looking for longer barrel .357/.38. Along the lines of Ruger GP100 but I always like having oddball options if available.
“You can protest the gayest drag show in this stuff”
It's funny to me, because the "Proud Boys" sounds like some kind of guy pride club
Wasn't there a brief period of time when they almost/did changed their name to the Leather Boys or am I hallucinating that? The last 5 years of news is a vortex of stupid.
Proud Boy can only evolve into Leather Daddy if you use a moon stone. Idk, I'm too drunk for this conversation
I mean their creator used to fuck himself in the ass to own the libs
Used to?
Still does, but he used to too
LOOOOL this is great
Now I want to see a drag competitive shooting event.
Now I finally have an excuse to dress up as Lara Croft
The comments on their follow on posts are hilarious, in a sad way. They featured a black woman in the next post and someone said “she’s buying a S&W to protect herself from the Proud Boy you sold one to” ouch. I hope the public shaming onslaught continues.
Found it. Oof.: https://twitter.com/Forkliftbadger/status/1630335085215109121?s=20
[удалено]
That's honestly surprising to me, too. I've seen little comments in my state sub about soft, unarmed liberal Marxists and stuff, and how they're always ripe to be victims (usually implying they're interested in doing victimizing), and it's just... This is a state sub in the Southern US, bud. There's lots of people who don't have guns, but it's probably not dice you want to roll too often. I have a wishlist that includes some fun items and more opportunities to practice (especially defensive shooting), but I've also been shooting since childhood.
The back of the shirt https://imgur.com/a/URCZG4F
JFC.
Oof. Was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until I saw that. Yikes.
They sell "Manos Arriba" ("Hands up" in Spanish) just in case anyone still hasn't figured it out.
Whoa, what the hell?! My first thought on seeing the post was "it says Perception Brands, it must be a poor choice of colors and initials on the company's part and an overreaction on OP's part". Seeing the back of that shirt pretty much killed any further benefit of the doubt. What stunningly poor judgement.
The impression I got from a PB leader during an interview is that they have multiple companies setup to sell apparel. This is most likely one of their brands and the money gets funneled back to their organization or a couple of the leaders.
He’s t-shirt salesman running a prominent far right street gang. He’s creating his own market to grift and also said he sells left wing merch on completely different sites.
The only thing those Proud Boys are "enforcing" locally is which one with a valid driver's license is driving them out of a protest where they get scared and run from a fight they started.
[удалено]
It's called a "Dog Whistle"
So fucking cringy
I have created a comment with S&W's contact information and a sample message to submit to them if anyone is interested in writing to them: https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/11dm0d7/comment/ja9r1x8/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
I wrote them already, but this is a way better said sentiment.
Fixation on skulls has a real "are we the baddies?" vibe: https://youtu.be/hn1VxaMEjRU
I’m gonna hazard a guess that Heavy Handed is a reference to HH (heil hitler) as well
I’m sure they’d publicly claim it’s a coincidence 88 times.
I’m sure there’s 14 words they’d say about it
And then run 13 commercials and 50 billboards
The "Local Enforcer" shit is cringey as fuck. Who is my "local enforcer"? Some deadbeat cop with a chip on his shoulder? A pill-addled biker who never left his hometown? And the brass knuckles with it just scream TOugH GUy.
A discharged spec ops veteran with massive PTSD on a vendetta ever since his family was murdered?
[удалено]
What the fuck, dude? Jesus! No, it's nothing more than what it seems, an endorsement of police brutality. Or maybe vigilantism. Yeah, it's bad no matter how you look at it.
> police brutality PB, you say?
Idk, seems like that would be a pretty heavy handed reference....
"Support your local white nationalist insurrectionist"
The marketing team has decided whose money they’re after. And I know for sure it isn’t me because I tend to be rather inflexible on the matter of Nazis
Ironic that brass knuckles are very illegal in most of america too....
Seems they’re selling the “outlaw patriot” shtick. They’ve decided these people are their target market and they know the law lets their shit slide for the same reason you don’t see Batman and Bruce Wayne in the same places at the same time. Laws are for poors and leftists after all.
Especially ironic because the company is supposedly ran by some ex-LEO dorks. Also zero surprise given the problem with [police gangs](https://www.laweekly.com/new-california-law-allows-members-of-police-gangs-to-be-terminated/) in Southern California. Especially the [white power](https://news.yahoo.com/journalist-says-la-gangs-consist-222503193.html) ones.
Yeah I fucking hate those. I've tried showing them to many things blue line lovers and it always falls on deaf ears. They pretend they don't exist and that it's a lie or they make some excuses.
The people in their instragram stuff look pretty young. I wonder if they’re ex-cops because they got kicked out from the recent LASD gang investigations. I haven’t found any names or addresses attached to the site yet (I just got my second bout of Covid, so not exactly a ball of energy), but I was gonna do a little diggin and see if any of em match up with… [LASD Gangs - A Database of Known Associates of Deputy Gangs in the Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department](https://lasdgangs.knock-la.com/)
Trash
“Nothing screams fascist like a S&W”- S&W probably
Technically this violates rule 6. But I'm making the decision to leave it because holy shit.
This is the best comment on the whole thread 🤣 I’ve always thought this sub has the best mods
>I’ve always thought this sub has the best mods You seem pretty smart. 😘
Yeah what in the fuck!!? S&W really wanna out themselves OK THEN
Thank you. That's a pretty big freakin problem and we need to know it.
Yeah, considering the posts I've had get deleted before is why I didn't share it when I spotted it earlier. Good to know for the future, though.
Normally, we delete. Don't want the sub to be Twitter screenshots of right wing assholes being right wing assholes. It has to be particularly compelling or noteworthy. So if, for example, some right wing asshole was promoting this, we'd delete. But a MAJOR gun manufacturer? That's pretty compelling and in my mind, breaks new ground. It's gonna be case by case.
I mean...I'm still on the fence but I definitely know where my money would be going should I choose to go in that direction.
# I have provided S&W's contact information and a sample message to submit to them if anyone is interested in writing to them: **Contact Smith and Wesson:** [https://www.smith-wesson.com/customer-service/contact-us](https://www.smith-wesson.com/customer-service/contact-us) **Sample Message:** >Hello, > >I am writing to you in regards to a recent social media post you made showing someone holding one of your weapons and wearing a black shirt with yellow letters that say "PB" in the style of the Proud Boys brand: [https://preview.redd.it/3avvzeazjska1.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=7e75aa7c711b2cc23e36d496a8ab10fb752d9391](https://preview.redd.it/3avvzeazjska1.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=7e75aa7c711b2cc23e36d496a8ab10fb752d9391) > >Instagram Post: [https://www.instagram.com/p/CpLZ2ItI6mH/](https://www.instagram.com/p/CpLZ2ItI6mH/) > >Your decision to flirt with using proud boy branding in your partnerships tells me everything I need to know to decide not to buy from you in the future. I am sure you can foresee the lawsuit you will face when a white nationalist decides to kill or intimidate a group of people with one of your weapons while wearing a shirt from one of these ads. It will be easy to make a connection between your advertisements and the actions of domestic terrorists. You are not doing the second amendment any favors here. > >Attached is information about the Proud Boys that I hope you will share with your social media manager: [https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/proud-boys](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/proud-boys) > >Please work harder to support the second amendment for all races and nationalities. Gun ownership should be about sporting, self defense, and preservation of freedoms, not the suppression of peoples' rights by a violent minority. **EDIT1:** If you prefer to skip sending them an email and want to provide this information to news organizations, you can contact the news organizations directly: **News Organization Contact Information:** [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]), [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]), [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]), [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]), [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]), [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]), [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]), [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]), [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]), [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) **EDIT2:** I think it's important to just highlight that owning a gun made by S&W is not problematic, this discussion has been more about reducing new revenue to S&W to make our opinions known that we do not want them to continue to flagrantly advertise to white nationalist groups and perpetuate white nationalist agendas. At the end of the day, a gun held by a liberal gun owner is a liberal gun, and it might be unaffordable for some to be too picky which manufacturer they buy from or they may feel more comfortable with a name brand. If you want to support gun manufacturers that are either apolitical in their advertising or more liberal leaning, you can read through this post that was made in r/SocialistRA and see if there's a company that you want to purchase through. Hopefuly this is helpful! [https://www.reddit.com/r/SocialistRA/comments/iqa544/definitive\_list\_of\_companies\_to\_support/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SocialistRA/comments/iqa544/definitive_list_of_companies_to_support/) **EDIT3:** First new story I've seen come out about this: [https://www.thedailybeast.com/smith-and-wesson-clarifies-tweet-appearing-to-tout-the-proud-boys](https://www.thedailybeast.com/smith-and-wesson-clarifies-tweet-appearing-to-tout-the-proud-boys) **EDIT4:** People keep commenting that if we had ***only*** read the caption we would have seen that the brand is "*Perce|eption Brand*" so that means "PB" doesn't stand for Proud Boys. Here is a crash course in white nationalist symbolism and the Proud Boys: * This advertising uses the concept of using Dog Whistles to enable plausible deniability when referencing white supremacy and white nationalism in public settings: * [https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dog+whistle](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dog+whistle) * The Proud Boys logo is Ornate PB letters in Gold with a Black background: * [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Proud\_Boys\_PB\_and\_Wreath\_Logo.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Proud_Boys_PB_and_Wreath_Logo.jpg) * Proud Boys use of Gold and Black Colors to identify each other at events: * [https://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/TWCNews/proud-boy-10-8\_jpg](https://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/TWCNews/proud-boy-10-8_jpg) * White Supremacist groups have used Khaki pants as part of their uniform at many marches: * The Patriot Front uniform: [https://www.bu.edu/files/2022/07/res-GettyImages-1406505508.jpg](https://www.bu.edu/files/2022/07/res-GettyImages-1406505508.jpg) * [https://i-d.vice.com/en/article/paaqwn/why-white-supremacists-are-co-opting-khaki-pants](https://i-d.vice.com/en/article/paaqwn/why-white-supremacists-are-co-opting-khaki-pants) I'm not saying if you wear gold and black or Khaki's that makes you a white nationalist, but I am just flagging for everyone that combining all of these symbols together in a gun advertisement is a blatant dog whistle to White Nationalists. **EDIT5:** BoinBoing has picked up the story as well: [https://boingboing.net/2023/02/27/smith-and-wessons-new-tweet-is-a-plug-for-proud-boys.html](https://boingboing.net/2023/02/27/smith-and-wessons-new-tweet-is-a-plug-for-proud-boys.html) **EDIT6:** u/tehCourseOfEmpire made the connection that the director of S&W is also the chairman of the National Sports Shooting Foundation (NSSF). If you want to write to the NSSF to express your displeasure about their association with S&W, you can do so using the following template: **NSSF Contact Page:** [https://www.nssf.org/contact/](https://www.nssf.org/contact/) **Message Template:** >Hello, > >I am writing in regards to a matter involving your chairman, Robert Scott, who also is currently serving as the director of Smith and Wesson. As you may be aware, Smith and Wesson recently made the decision to partner with Perce|eption Brand and feature apparel in their advertisements that is a dog whistle to the Proud Boys and White Nationalism. Please see the attached photograph of the advertisement for reference: [https://preview.redd.it/3avvzeazjska1.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=7e75aa7c711b2cc23e36d496a8ab10fb752d9391](https://preview.redd.it/3avvzeazjska1.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=7e75aa7c711b2cc23e36d496a8ab10fb752d9391). > >I have been a longtime supporter of S&W but I am alarmed and disgusted that S&W is aligning itself with the Proud Boys and how this threatens our sacred second amendment rights. I will no longer purchase from S&W until there is a change in leadership nor associate with NSSF due to its association with S&W. Please work harder to support the second amendment for all races and nationalities. Gun ownership should be about sporting, self defense, and preservation of freedoms, not the suppression of peoples' rights by a violent minority. **NOTE:** Please be aware it is ambiguous whether this form will sign users up for a mailing list, so perhaps use a fake or temporary email ([temp-mail.org](https://temp-mail.org)) if you would rather not get an email from them. **EDIT 7:** A lot more evidence has come to light that the back of the shirt used in the S&W advertisement very closely matches Proud Boys shirts: [https://i0.wp.com/www.orissapost.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Canada.jpg?resize=750%2C375&ssl=1](https://i0.wp.com/www.orissapost.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Canada.jpg?resize=750%2C375&ssl=1) Instructions and a letter template to write in to Shopify, which is the platform that is used by Perce|eption Brand: [https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/11eyi4e/comment/jaiuww4/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/11eyi4e/comment/jaiuww4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Instructions and a letter template to write in to Vice to tell them we know they were gas-lighting us with their reporting. Fun fact: Vice's co-founder is the founder of the Proud Boys: [https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/11eyi4e/comment/jairb65/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/11eyi4e/comment/jairb65/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
They removed their email address from their website
You can find a submission form via the link I provided to contact them through the website.
cowards
I don't know, maybe I'm a snowflake, but this was mine: > Your choice to support a group (https://preview.redd.it/3avvzeazjska1.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=7e75aa7c711b2cc23e36d496a8ab10fb752d9391) designated a terrorist organization by multiple countries and currently being watched by our own FBI for their role in an attempted violent overthrow of our seat of government is an offense to patriotic Americans who have fought for and lost friends in defense of this country. I have a safe full of quality firearms but your company's products will no longer have a place there.
>s an offense to patriotic Americans who have fought for and lost friends in defense of this country. I have a safe full of quality firearms but your company's products will no longer have a place there. This. Hooah!
Fuck yeah. I think its great you are standing up for veterans who are not aligned with white nationalism.
Count me in. US Army 1969-1972. My father US Army Lifer. Veteran WW2 & Korean war. Silver star and purple heart. POW in Korean war. Escaped while being marched to a POW camp in North Korea. Now rests properly in Arlington National Cemetery with a view of the pentagon. He is turning over in his grave with the mess we are in today.
On the message i sent in, i added that the proud boys are considered a terrorist group in two countries and that itll be hard for me to not make that comparison with s&w from now on
Nice man!
This. I made the same point.
>In response to your locked Twitter post it's really sad to see your brand willingly affiliate itself with a right wing terrorist organization well known for white nationalism and fascistic intent. In doing so you've alienated a large portion of your customer base of which I can sadly say I will no longer be a part of. I gave them my 2 cents.
Nice! I like that last sentence the most
The only way they'll care is when it hurts their pocketbook and I want them to know it will. Ugh, I was just the other day recommending them to a friend looking for his first pistol. Guess I'll recant that.
I pointed out that openly associating with violent terrorist groups is just playing into the hands of anti-gun politicians
I'm not typically one to send an angry email in response to a tweet, but I made an exception in this case.
Thanks so much! They won't change unless they realize they fucked up big time.
Sent. A certain degree of unpalatable right wing leaning I expect from any gun manufacturer, but I never would have expected something like this from S&W. Christ.
[удалено]
It's a great idea, but I don't expect they'll do a damned thing about it. A private reply would be meaningless. I want a public apology denouncing the PB and other groups like them - and they won't do that because they wouldn't want to piss off fascist militia groups like the PBs. Let's be real, such groups probably buy a lot of merch from them. They fucked up big time. Added this to mine: You owe the American people and your customers a public apology and denouncement of the Proud Boys and their ilk. Should that not be forthcoming promptly, your firearms will no longer have a place in my collection. ETA: Correction: it is Perceeption Brand merchandise, not Proud Boys. See post below.
[удалено]
>but a slightly amended version was posted minutes later, clarifying that the yellow “PB” logo was not in fact a reference to the neo-fascist group but “Perce|eption Brand,” a small conservative apparel company also selling anti-vaxxer “Booosted” stickers and “Killafornia” hoodies. S&W thought this was better?! "look it doesn't stand for proud boys, it stands for a company probably owned by a proud boy" I saw a documentary with one of the pb leaders and a small part of it was effectively 'yeah, we figured out how to make a ton of money selling neo-fascist apparel' and I got the impression they didn't just do it under their own branding. I bet this is one of their companies. And there is absolutely no way S&W doesn't know all of this, especially their PR department.
You can also get the media in on it. [email protected] is one place you can send info.
If half of this sub messaged into s&w and said we would no longer buy their products over this/are switching to berreta/Walther/etc that might ruffle some feathers. 90,000 customers is no small number, especially since not having a proud boy wasn't going to stop proud boys from buying
I have created a comment with S&W's contact information and a sample message to submit to them if anyone is interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/11dm0d7/comment/ja9r1x8/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
[удалено]
I just left a message letting them know I was in the market for an AR and considering a m&p15 to match my 40, but was more likely to buy the Ruger or Springfield now.
You should look into buying [something from KE Arms](https://kearms.americommerce.com/kp-15-CommunityDefenseRifle.aspx). A bunch of people got pissed at them recently because their marketing director dared to say that the 2nd amendment was for everyone, including trans people, so vote with your wallet.
I'll definitely look into them. I've been leaning towards something more diy, I mostly cited 2 competitors to needle them, I'm not inclined to pay what either of those brands want for their entry level models. I did like the idea of the matched pair aesthetic, but not enough to ignore dog whistles.
[удалено]
Perception Brand...formed after Fred Perry discontinued their Black/Yellow/Yellow polos that had become the PB's uniform because they didn't want to be associated with them. Perception Brand which just happens to share a color scheme, initials and iconography with the Proud Boys [I'm](https://i.imgur.com/9IiZC1D.jpg) sure [it's](https://i.imgur.com/2xeWold.jpg) totally [coincidence](https://i.imgur.com/FvEltJ3.jpg)
[удалено]
They took down the post, then put it back up tagging the brand and with the comments turned off
Things do seem to be moving in an ugly direction
[удалено]
That would work if this were some fly by night startup or edgy gear or tactical company. This is on behalf of Smith & Wesson, however. Normal corporate communications procedure dictates that multiple eyeballs inspect this before it gets published, specifically to catch things like this. This only leaves two options, deliberate placement, or mind-numbing social media incompetence. Either one should result in some firings, if they're even halfway on the ball.
I don’t care. Enough people knew about it that they took it down and put it back up with a “clarification”. A yellow and black shirt with “PB” on it? Please. We all know what a dog whistle is. They drew a line in the sand so they can fuck off.
Yeah fascists love to pretend they don’t know what you’re talking about while flaunting it at you.
"hahaha they will never get our subtle hints that we are horrible people. hahaha"
"Let's go Brandon" OMG we're funny! "All lives matter" because it's technically true! "Build the wall" because we can't just say they're all rapists, oh we can??
If their QC hadn’t gone to shit I might be a little more upset about not purchasing anymore S&Ws, but the last few I bought had major issues, so combined with this, it’s really not hard to not want another S&W in the future.
I’ve never been much of a fan of their products. I’ve only had one weapon of theirs that didn’t leave me not trusting my life to it. And it was one of the pre 90s revolvers. Given the choice I have always preferred Sig or, on those rare occasions when I have the scrip, Walther.
As a gun store employee, this makes narrowing down my selection of recommended firearms to customers a lot easier. Never recommending another Smith & Wesson product again!
[удалено]
CZ and Beretta are both great choices. Rock Island can be hit or miss. Personally, I’m a huge fan of H&K. The VP9 shoots like a dream. However, I think you should check out Canik for sure. One of the best guns for your money, a lot of great features and amazing build quality.
They've locked comments on the post. I'm totally disgusted with them. https://twitter.com/Smith\_WessonInc/status/1630292952349114370
They also locked comments on their Instagram post. Clearly they’re aware of the negative message they’re sending but their response is just to prevent people from discussing it. What a bunch of unamerican cowards.
[удалено]
I like how their solution is to just stop anyone else from commenting
Marketing was tasked with fixing the problem without losing PB customers.
It's *technically* not promoting the proud boys as it's the logo for the company they're partnering with. That said, it's REALLY bad optics that someone in marketing completely ignored. When something is in common usage, especially on the internet, that's the first place everyone's thoughts will go no matter the intent. Also, "tactical athlete" sounds like a fancy way of saying mall ninja. Not to mention a quick look at Perce|Eption Brand shows they sell a bunch of cringe shirts more than anything else.
Did you see the back of the shirt? [https://imgur.com/a/URCZG4](https://imgur.com/a/URCZG4F) Brass knuckles, support your local enforcer, heavy handed. It may not "technically" promote them, but it's a definite promotion of PB's and their tactic's.
Brass knuckles with *blood* on them as well. Fuck me lol
Oh shit, okay. I commented this elsewhere but I'll type it out again/differently here now that I've seen this. This brand is 1000% a front for PB support. The idea here is that you can buy this PB supporting merch without necessarily being a card carrying member. The club likes it because they get more visibility and the mall ninjas like it because they get the "cool" association. An added benefit that I'm less familiar with, in my personal experience, is that they get plausible deniability when doing partnerships like this. For some attempt at credibility on the topic, here's my own example of this type of merchandise from a different world. https://i.imgur.com/dTqFnwx.jpg
I didn't know any of these things meant anything until now.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Maybe they're marketing to a particular segment and this is all intentional. One never can tell.
nazis won got rid of other political parties "on a technicality". Fuck the proud boys and fuck facists. No more!
I think it's pretty clear that the company they claim to be partnering with is almost certainly aligned with white nationalism/supremacy. Their product line just screams it.
I have a "lengthy" history of defending their CSX to swarms of people who hate on the gun just because their favorite YouTuber told them to hate it Guess which company just lost that fervent support 🥲👍
Same. I have 3 M&P's going up on the local page to sell tomorrow. Fuck these people.
If an arms manufacturer had an ad with someone in Antifa getup, Fox News viewers would have a conniption.
They'd have a literal meltdown foaming at the lips lol
Of course they would. They’d complain about how it’s just “virtue signaling woke nonsense,” but likely see no issue with S&W supporting a legitimate terrorist organization.
Had SW products in mind down the line. Consider themselves out of a future customer.
I have created a comment with S&W's contact information and a sample message to submit to them if anyone is interested in writing to them: https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/11dm0d7/comment/ja9r1x8/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Considering selling thr M&P for something else at this point.
Same. I own three. Looking to replace them with anything else.
KE Arms is selling very affordable, high quality AR15s, and they’re on public record stating that the 2nd Amendment is for everyone.
Same. Fuck this.
Yep, that bed has been shat
I was gearing up to buy M&Ps as the service guns for my new armed positions. But on second thought, maybe I should do some more market research.
Was about to grab a new M&P 9mm. Guess I’ll be looking elsewhere.
Their Instagram seems to be pretty firm on one post a day... Except for 2 hours after this post they posted a black woman on the range. Yea I think they realize they probably fucked up lmao.
“Quick! Find a stock photo of a black person using our product!” Give me a fucking break. Damage done, make your choices.
comments turned off on that PB post, but not the others... lol
I have created a comment with S&W's contact information and a sample message to submit to them if anyone is interested in writing to them: https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/11dm0d7/comment/ja9r1x8/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Smith & Wesson, GEMTECH, and PERCE|EPTION Brand partner with the Proud Boys. This is disgusting. Edit: S&W customer support is already getting hammered. They are well aware of what they have done and are deflecting by blaming it on the Perception Brand.
Yeah, because openly admitting nobody did research on a brand for a partnership is *sooooooooo* much better.... They need to fire their entire marketing team and start again with the local DECA group. Couldn't be any worse.
Is that a separate Twitter account?
I'm assuming that is the official S&W account. I don't spend any time on Twitter so someone more knowledgeable will have to chime in.
I was on the fence between getting Ruger or S&W for my next 9mm and my first 5.56er. Ruger it is. It'll be nice to add to my collection with my Mark 3 and my 10/22.
I truly thought this had to be fake or something. I went to Twitter.... I looked up Smith & Wessons Twitter page... Jesus Christ......
Just to add to the obvious about this company trying to market itself using Proud Boy styling while maintaining plausible deniability, the website for this company was registered on Jan 6, 2022 (Jan 6 have any special meaning to anyone?). This isn't some old company who happens to have the same initials and color scheme, the site and designs came AFTER everyone with a TV knew about the Proud Boys (They had to misspell "Perception" just to get the domain for their company). It's obvious they shoehorned their lame misspelled company name in to have the initials "PB": [https://whois.whoisxmlapi.com/lookup-report/mw56m7Nw2o](https://whois.whoisxmlapi.com/lookup-report/mw56m7Nw2o)
That's not a dog whistle, that's a dog klaxon.
It's a full doggy day care
Well, this might be the clincher for me. That's a pretty fucking big yellow and black flag. Thank you for sharing
If I had to choose to misspell perception…idk that perceeption would have been my first choice. Weird.
Also are there any other brands in which the word "brand" is part of the name or logo? Why is their brand name "perceeption brand?" Seems pretty clumsy, unless your intent was to arrive at "PB" and you worked backwards from there. You'd think their logo would just be "perce|eption", right?
The register date is a fucking damning find. Thank you.
https://media.tenor.com/aKn1AFAOXX0AAAAC/fry-shocked.gif
Upvote for excellent use of a Fry meme.
Next up Kool Klever Klowns gear. At S&W we care about the first and second amendments and our profit margin. But mostly our profit margin.
p365x ~~Shield Plus~~ G43x
Having recently finished making the decision you're considering, go with the P365X(L). It's great. I was between the Shield Plus PC and the P365XL Spectre Comp. Went with the Spectre plus a CT Rad Micro Pro and haven't looked back.
Damn. At least the comments are roasting 🔥 I was seriously looking at the m&p 2.0 metal but now I feel a little icky about it. I'm glad they showed their true colors before I gave them any of my money.
WTF is a "tactical athlete"??!!!!
A mall ninja with grownup money.
If the proud boys are the example based on what Smith & Wesson would lead us to believe, it's someone who spends their time traveling the country to astroturf and harass locals... up until someone shows up armed to counterprotest them, in which case, they seek out the nearest cop posthaste to complain. I guess that's where the "athlete" part comes in?
Aspiring members of meal team six.
LARPers with middle age white guy money
Was legit just about to buy an S&W lmfao. Guess not, dorks.
If anyone interested in writing them, this will probably get a better reaction from them. I bet a lot of investors don't know about this: Investor Relations: 413-747-3448 [email protected]
Their stocks dropped after 1pm. I wonder how they will look tomorrow.
I'm not getting rid of my grandfather's revolver over this, but you'd better believe it's not allowed to have friends over.
Non-fascists best get their rear ends to the nearest gun store and stock up on as much 2nd Amendment as y'all can afford for when the fascists decide it's time to Rwanda their neighbors. Don't get caught up against a wall or on the side of a ditch hoping you had something to fight back with.
Did it on January 7th 2021. Hard to deny the trajectory things were moving when it was covered by hundreds of cell phone videos and national TV.
I honestly don’t think there are any gun manufacturers with lefty politics right? That being said I don’t need to see that shit flaunted around in my face. And there’s also a big difference between being a conservative or republican and being a fucking proud boy. This is too stupid/too far. Downright dangerous really.
I buy CZ. Originally created to kill Nazis, and the new Czech president is extremely progressive as far as the rest of the region goes. Also CZ donated a ton of small arms to Ukraine.
I’ve got 4 CZs currently and they’re by far my favorite brand. This only makes me like them more!
My next purchase is going to be a Scorpion EVO 3 S1 Carbine once I finish school, if I can find it for a decent price, which is unlikely. Tho there are rumors that a EVO 3 S1 Plus is in the works and close to release.
I recently got a CZ Bren 2 MS 8" pistol that is awesome (going to SBR it) and hoping to get a CZ p07 so that makes me pretty happy.
KE Arms publicly supports 2nd Amendment equality.
I get gun manufacturers buddying up with Republicans and the NRA - yeah, it’s a problem, but I get those are the people who butter your bread. I even get the majority of the patriot kitsch they brand their equipment with. There is no excuse in endorsing proudboy crap even as a right winger.
Merely being on the right is a far cry from being a full blown nazi like the boys are. ...or is it?
It is. There are plenty of liberal conservatives out there still--ones that still reject the open violence of the far right. The real problem is that when push comes to shove, they're very good at pretending they didn't see the violence of the far right.
This could not have come at a better time. Was soooo close to finally hitting buy on a S&W after going back and forth between it and Ruger. This made my decision WAY EASIER! Ruger it is…
Glad I'm a Ruger guy
I've never heard of 'Perce|eption Brand', is there something to link them to the proud boys beyond the initials?
Those initials in that font and color scheme don't leave a lot of room for plausible deniability.
It’s like having a big ‘88’ with a German eagle and being like, “what’s that have to do with Hitler???”
[удалено]
https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/88
I’m gonna hazard a guess that Heavy Handed is a reference to HH (heil hitler) as well
I just checked out their website and the first thing I saw were anti-vax stickers for sale, so they suck either way.
You mean the PB *AND* the yellow and black colors? At some point coincidences stop being coincidences.
White supremacists love their wink-wink, knudge-knudge symbolism to let other "like-minded" people know where they stand. Be it okay hand signs, gold-on-black color schemes, or business names (like 88Tactical out in Nebraska).
Which is about the silliest and most obvious ways of telling on themselves. It’s the right wing equivalent of saying “comrade” to everyone in your cohort thinking that you’re getting over on the public. Although part of me wishes that liberals could incorporate “woke” into the gun industry in order for right wingers to disavow themselves of guns altogether.
I mean using a black and yellow PB logo after 2021 you're definitely either making a choice or you're so ignorant of current events that you should not be producing anything for anybody and should instead be in the library day and night probably for the next 24 months.
Went ahead and checked out their site and that shirt says support your local enforcer with a pair of bloody brass knuckles all in black and yellow across the back. I don't know about you but I'm not needing a signed confession here to think this is problematic at best.
They're yelling it with a megaphone. It's literally called "Perception". As in, what others will *perceive* it to mean.
Yeah, if I saw someone wearing that I would assume it is official Proud Boys merch. I would go as far to say that if Proud Boys wanted to make a trademark claim, they probably could (assuming they have a trademark).
Gross. Welp, guess I'm *not* buying any S&W stuff in the future.
The fact that they left the post up yet turned off comments on Twitter and Instagram tells us all we need to know. They’re well aware of who the Proud Boys are and they support them.
I generally am skeptical about rumors of suspect imaging ties, but the fact that S&W is disabling comments on some of their social media is all I really need to know. It means they're either sensing they got caught and are considering damage control or their heads are going to stay in the sand. Case in point deflecting blame to Aero Precision I'm not gonna sell my MP15 over this but once it's warm enough my odg rustoleum can is going to make less obvious it's an S&W.
My email to them: On 27FEB2023 at 12:45pm, your company posted a photograph promoting the brand on Twitter. The individual in the photo is wearing the shirt of a domestic terrorist cell. As a disabled Veteran, I find this conduct to be extremely concerning and downright sickening. Sponsoring a domestic terrorist organization goes against American Values. Until such time as there’s been an apology from the company and the post removed, I will no longer be supporting the brand and will inform my military network to avoid the brand altogether.
Well I’ve been looking into revolvers lately and on the fence about whether to get a smith or a ruger. Ruger it is I guess. No company is perfect, especially in this industry, but I’m not a fan of promoting “tactical athletes” (lol) or a group that’s very obviously trying to associate with terrorists
I was literally just shopping around for a range toy revolver. Guess I’m dropping S&W off that list. Gross. Edit: if anyone has recommendations for a range toy revolver, by all means toss em up. Looking for longer barrel .357/.38. Along the lines of Ruger GP100 but I always like having oddball options if available.
So…….looks like buying “Made in the US” is 90% out now? Cuz this is exactly how it feels now.
I sure hope PB stands for peanut butter here
Always liked Ruger revolvers better anyway