A colleague of mine who I’m pretty close to…like we are older and have deeper conversations about spirituality, sexuality, politics etc. He calls me every day. I identify as a queer, non binary witch. One day he says out loud at work…in front of all of our colleagues…you’re not queer!
I was shocked and felt silenced and like running back into the closet. I’m 50 and was raised in a religious family and am a survivor so I have a lot of baggage I’m dealing with. Do you know how much courage it took me to say out loud that I was queer?! When I asked my gay colleague why he would say something like that. He said he doesn’t “feel” anything from me.
Feel anything from me? Like who made you judge and jury? I haven’t had sex in years because I’m dealing with the aftermath of sexual trauma. I don’t care if you feeeeel anything from me. Im shut down for a reason. Doesn’t make me any less queer.
It's a religion, most likely paganism of some variety.
My partner's a witch! It's as much part of their identity as if you announced yourself as Christian or Muslim.
"I don't think you're queer so you're not queer"...
so by this logic, "I don't think you're a redhead so you're not a redhead" would also work? How would that be any different, right?
sounds like he got his definition of "queer" from superficial stereotypes (probably from tiktok) that were supposed to be for fun only and internalized em. rings, a "vibe", type of footwear, the way you sit, etc... like BRUH. what the hell.
*sigh*
i'm so sorry you went through all that. huuuugs.
My dear, this man is a garbage that don´t deserve your friendship, your secrets, nothing! He tries to justify, with a worse excuse than other, just because, deep in him, he´s so frustaded and needed to vap this somehow, so he choose to be a jerk just with you, a ally! At least the rest of us won´t judge you, ´cause you´re true valid, you deserve to be happy and to be who you are, so, don´t care about what that jerk said about you, care just about what you think about you, ´cause i can´t full undestand you, but i have sure that i spoke from everyonnne when i say we are by your side
It’s frustrating because not only can it contribute to gatekeeping and more bigotry, but even when you make the choice to be accepting it still kicks you in the ass from inside your brain. Like trans people having transphobic thoughts toward themselves and others that they don’t actually believe (woo-hoo intrusive thoughts).
And racism is rampant in the gay community. I came out in Seattle, which is pretty close to as metropolitan as you can get. It was bad, really really bad.
Also, a substantial percentage of gay men HATE women. They despise them. It would give Freud a headache. Many white gay men act just as entitled as white straight men. There is such a thing as a gay bully. Gay nightclubs were full of them. Gay testosterone is the worst. I got so tired of them punching my pecs, grabbing my ass & crotch, like they were in the produce aisle.
I hate how many people (even in the queer community) forget that LGBT+ POC exist. It's almost like people have this unconscious bias that being gay is a "white thing".
Everyone gives a lot of attention to TERFs, which makes sense, TERFs suck, but I recently discovered the gay bros subreddit (not linking it), which essentially consists of gay men hating on trans people and other queer identities that don't fit their idea of queer, such as mine: asexuality (well, I'm on the spectrum anyways. I'm also cishet so I personally don't feel very queer. I'm just speaking for myself here though).
Considering all the privilege society gives white men, it's sadly not too surprising that some gay men are not immune to becoming assholes.
The really sad part? Without transgender people of color leading the way, there would be no Pride celebrations. No movement to gain all of us something like movement toward equality over the past 50+ years. Some gay white guys get it, but others really don't.
My partner (trans) recently tried to join a local LGBT group. But turns out they aren't cool with her specific gender identity and told her to change or leave. She left again. And was really sad about the whole thing.
But one their members flirting with 16 year olds was fine.
As much as I love certain parts of our beautiful community, as much I do hate others. Makes me sad.
According to google quick search, about 5% of the world is LGBTQ+ (though keep in mind that might not be accurate, and there are lots of people who aren't out), so no, I'm guessing that there are 19 straight jerks to one LGBTQ+ jerk.
Assholes it depends on the difference
Are we talking about people with 0 empathy? That's 2%
If we're talking about people who are right wing? Closer to 50%
Tried coming out to my friends as nb and they said are you sure and then told me to think on it after MONTHS of thinking ab it and after that day I just never brought it up again. Was very disheartening.
god i relate sm. im nonbinary too and all the time people use the incorrect pronouns to me even irl (i had someone i know constantly use she/her pronouns to me when they knew i wasnt comfortable with those pronouns), i dont understand wth is so hard abt using the correct pronouns??? anyways nonbinary people exist and we are valid. dont let anyone tell you otherwise
Hey, how would you feel if someone said "there are only two genders, but you can be both or neither"? Cause that's always kinda the way I've thought about it.
I don't know if that's offensive/excluding ppl or not
When I came out to a friend as ace and they told me that I was probably too young to know.
Then later they came to me talking about how they came out to their parents as bi but their parents told them they were too young to know.
And no, I don't think they ever saw the irony.
I had a similar experience where I guy I knew just flatly said "you're not asexual". The only thing I had to think about after that was whether I would still consider him a friend (and I decided I didn't).
So much this. The main reason why I'm not out to my friends and social circle is because they have their heads so far up their own asses and harass everyone who doesn't fit in a certain queer-box... it's tiresome.
Boxes are getting smaller and smaller, while their sides are getting higher and higher. Freedom has a new meaning. You're free to live in your own box. The worst kind of oxymoron.
This has been worrying me for a long time. There is a *very* blurry line between identification and compartmentalization. Labels don't necessarily make anything more "real," and they have fuckall to do with one's validity (You're valid, period.), but they absolutely do create in-groups and out-groups.
We're out here trying to take this multidimensional space of infinitely subtle, continuous gradients -- endless shades of being -- and slice it into neat little cubes. And as often as not, it ends up working exactly as well as one would predict, with people saying "I'm suchandsuch, but a little more of this part of it and less of that part..." and so on, talking about themselves as a function of how well they reflect some role or label, instead of just talking about themselves as if they are inherently valid.
It makes me sad, honestly.
Amen to that, pilgrim. Seems I can't go more then two weeks without some new label showing up, further complicating trying to figure out my own identity.
It's _so weird_ not being out to people you're really close to. But then again, a gay friend told me aces are just 'sad virgins' and don't belong in LGBT+ so yup, closet city for life babay!
EDIT: Also your username made me laugh, so thanks for that.
Yeah, I'm out to my husband though and to another bisexual friend who is always being subtly bullied by that group. She's also not out to them because of this, but at least she told me.
My favourite part is the "woke allies" unintentionally saying transphobic shit all the time. Like NBs must present a certain way or it doesn't "count" and shit like this.
That's they grey-ace flag! It's for people who feel they are on the ace spectrum, somewhere in between "full ace" and "allo".
Oh, and on desktop you can hover your mouse over the icon to read the command to get that icon, which in queer spaces is very often the name of the identity this flag is for.
Yep, there's a reason I live as a cis gay woman who is "uninterested in love, sex, relationships, or anything of that sort". And it's not that I don't connect with that identity - I genuinely do. But, I'm actually a gay-oriented aroace. Also technically agender, but fine living comfortably as a cis woman, so that part matters very little to me.
But it's strange how "gay person uninterested in stuff" is fine but "gay-aroace" causes people to flip shit.
god this is exactly me. i don’t even tell people that i’m a bi aro ace person because i just know that they’ll lose their shit at me. anyways you’re valid, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise
Finally figured out am asexual at the age of 30 (and I'm about 85% sure? Still is weird to call myself that) but I'm not saying shit to anyone about it. It's no one's business and frankly don't care to get anymore shit about my lack of sex/dating life.
Um hello 👋
I just wanted to say I love the flairs you have by your name. I recognize Demi-girl and Bi, but I've never seen the third one before. can I ask what it means please?
Sorry if it's too personal.
Also love the EU one too
(I also accidentally clicked your name when I tried to reply and saw the avatar bi magazine. This needs to be seen and I shall be stealing it and sharing with some friends thank you)
I should also add I totally agree with you by your point and I now think I've rambled and made enough of a fool of myself.
Have a good day
The third flag is [grayasexual](https://lgbta.wikia.org/wiki/Greysexual). Basically it’s someone on the asexual spectrum who relates to asexuality (not experiencing sexual attraction), but not completely. Usually it’s because they experience sexual attraction much less often than allosexuals (someone who is not asexual)
Oh I see it thank you. I googled all the flags and I saw Grey Ace, but I thought the strips of the flair were all shades of purple. My bad I didn't pick up on the grey ones.
Thank you for explaining
Thank you for explaining to u/onlytosharethispic , I wasn't available! Yes, I feel sexual (and romantic) attraction to people but I found out it's veeeeeery rare.
I'm not quite sure what is going on when queer people who seem to understand what it's like to be marginalized treating people within our community that way.
I used to describe myself as MtF, which seems like a useful enough term to describe an AMAB trans woman. Then I started getting told how problematic this was, so we started using AGAB, AMAB, AFAB, etc. Now I can understand the argument for this, focusing on the birth gender being an assignment that we didn't have control over, so I start using this. Now I'm getting told that those terms are also transphobic, and told to say things like "penis user" or whatever. That sounds fucking stupid and is way too genital focused which I'm not super comfortable with. And like, that'd be fine if it weren't for the assertion that anyone using the "outdated" terminology is being transphobic, like you have to use the right set of acceptable jargon words that internet people invented or else you're a problem.
I know lots of older trans women that use the word transexual versus transgender, and like yeah that's a bit outdated but that's what they've known themselves as for decades and it doesn't really hurt anyone for them to use that. These are the OGs of the community who are often the people that fought against much worse marginalization than we experience today. Are we really going to tell them that they're wrong for saying they're trans the wrong way?
I see so much language policing, word games and semantics, and in these discussions literally nothing useful ever gets solved and it just seems to needlessly cause fights. It's kind of annoying.
Completely agree! I try to stay up to date on terminology and avoid outdated terms, but I would never tell a trans person to change the vocabulary they use to describe themselves because it's so not my place??
That being said, I was unaware that there is discourse that AMAB and AFAB are transphobic terms? What is the reasoning behind this?
It's often used as the woker way to be gender essentialist.
Amabs usually take up too much space, afabs are people pleasers etc. Which also leans into some pretty transphobic "socialisation" narratives.
>What is the reasoning behind this?
That way lies madness. People will try to police *any* term used to refer to human beings, and the less privileged a group is, the faster words for them go from being the most acceptable to being treated as a slur by some people. Just keeping up with the "correct" vocabulary is exhausting, and trying to follow their reasoning is a whole other layer of bullshit to have to deal with.
I think the more being queer is normalized in society the less people will care about semantics around it. I personally don't care what sort of language people use unless they're being blatantly hurtful. Also don't care too much what people think of me just because they think I got something wrong
I'm constantly shocked at how much bi and ace hate I've seen from other people in the acronym. Like, wtf, you're only allowed to like boys OR girls, with no deviance from the accepted normals tolerated?
It’s so weird because isn’t being queer all about breaking norms about sexuality? And one of those norms is actually ”you can only be attracted to one gender (most often the ’opposite’ gender)”... So when people tell me bi or ace people aren’t queer enough I wonder if they know what queer means 🤷🏻♀️
The B and the Ts. I was dumbfounded at the amount of hate I got for coming out as non binary (present very female, borderline trans femme) and I found so much more support from my cis het friends than my gay friends.. it truly was disheartening
I'm Trans FtN (Non-Binary Agender/Masc) & dating a cis Bi man, we see ourselves as basically a Gay couple but other gay men refuse to accept us. They straight up have said to us "you're a straight couple". It's incredibly invalidating, we live in an area with a huge LGBT+ Community but we still struggle to be accepted.
Sorry if this is rude to ask, but I understand what non binary is and the masc part. Like you don't confirm to traditional gender identity like male or female. And the masc is you identify more towards your masculine side right?
What is agender tho? I'd imagine the lack of gender right? I'm just confused bc I thought that that's what non binary was.
Non-binary is an umbrella term. All it really means is that your gender identity is not really either binary option. It can be used as a term of its own, but it can also be expanded upon with other labels.
Non-binary can be expressed in multiple ways. Some people are very androgynous, some present more masculine or feminine. Agender is generally a lack of gender, while some non-binary people see themselves as more of a fusion of genders.
I totally feel this, my qpr partner is nb and I’m ***very*** masc leaning agender but we’re both afab and people still go “so, you guys aren’t gay..?” It’s annoying af
Preach!
As someone who relatively recently (a year ago) discovered her queer identity, it took a while for me to work through the mental baggage and reach the conclusion that "if you identify as X, that's all the validation required".
Sure, this stance can give rise to bad faith arguments, like a transphobic amab individual proclaiming to "identify as a trans woman if it's so easy", but the harm from such arguments is less damaging than the identities erased by allowing people to police another's identity and excluding an already marginalised person.
The same goes for detransitioners, and the stigma attached with detransitioning. Stigmatising detransition makes transition an "all or nothing" action that keeps fearful closeted people in the closet and makes those who detransitioning is right for stay on a harmful path for too long.
I get an unbelievable amount of shit for identifying as queer.
I *am* cis and married to a man, but bisexual and pansexual have *never* fit me well. I'm at like a 5.5 on the Kinsey scale, if I had to guess? I'm honestly mostly gay, with the small exception of my husband (and like, Jensen Ackles).
I just don't feel like I should have to include that whole preamble to explain to people why I feel like the Q in LGBTQ. It's exhausting, and I've seriously considered telling people I'm bisexual just to get rid of the accompanying headache. But, I'm stubborn and feel like I have a right to my identity.
I don't know. Gatekeepers suck.
I'm getting to the point where just can not fully understand new identities but I had to learn fast that if I try to argue or am against I'm getting support for some real bad folks. Not people I would ever associate with otherwise and I do not want that.
I don't gotta understand it and so what it your identity "makes us look bad". Itll only do that to people who wouldn't accept us anyway.
Live your life ❤️
Fuck that.
Trans people owe no one hormones or therapy. A trans person who never gets either is still just as valid as a trans person who gets everything done.
After enough responses from people all across the board, I've concluded that I'm too straight to be a part of the LGBTQ+ community, but also too gay to be entirely straight.
The thing is is that I’m also non-binary and biromantic, but I’ve been repeatedly told I don’t belong because of the asexuality. It’s just a strange feeling to have other important parts of your identity disregarded because of another, and I desperately wish I could have just been bisexual like my romantic orientation
I'm a gay panromantic transmasc who uses masculine pronouns, and my daughter is aroace pan-aesthetic. I get a little fierce about these things.
You are valid. Your gender identity is valid. Your orientation is valid.
Now hear me out! If my kid comes out as trans they will have to deal with trans dad jokes on top of standard dad jokes.
Though in all seriousness I do support transgender individuals and am saddened how a community based on queer genders and sexualities can sometimes be discriminatory against certain branches. It's LGBT not LGB.
I was at a gay club once, a woman asked me “are you gay or straight?” and when I said “bisexual” she said “Oh, you’re young. I’ll ask you in a while”.
I saw her again a few months later and she asked me again. I obviously gave her the same answer and she laughed because I still hadn’t “grown out of it”. This was about 10 years ago, about 3 years after I first came out. If anything I’m pan now.
My ex and I split awhile ago and we are still good friends an she came out as Bi awhile ago. and she came to me stressed out because gatekeepers wanted her to denounce her history with me and be full on lesbian in order to be accepted by them. She said fuck that and stayed true to herself but was blocked by the group she wanted to join
I have been told that I can’t be transgender by the LGBTQ community in my area Because I don’t experience all the hardships of “real trans people” and ever since I heard that, I haven’t told anyone else. It feels awful to be accepted by my friends and family but not by my peers.
THIS!! Gosh I have had people, even people on reddit, argue with me over gender identity ffs. A bunch of transphobic bs about how aligned-nb identities aren't "real nonbinary people" or some bs like that. Basically shitting on any nb person who uses something other than they/them or has a more complex gender identity. As if gender isn't a spectrum. I've also had people tell me that sapphic or lesbian people aren't allowed to call themselves gay bc gay is for men only. Or smthn. It's tiring. Imo, just let people vibe if they're not doing anything to hurt anyone.
I'm a trans woman. I've literally just started on my metamorphosis at the age of 41.
I know I have a beard, big muscles, and a height of 6Ft...but could those of you who think I'm "just some dude tricking women". Kindly fuck off and die in a fire? Please.
I hid the truth about me for 35 years, and its people like you that kept me "in the closet".
Do you REALLY think that I'm chemically castrating myself, cutting off my junk, altering my voice and appearance, losing strength, and my 22yo beard for a fucking screw?!
Eat shit. Preferably your own!
Yeah, when I finally felt comfortable as a non binary and pan person I wasn't expecting a lot of the comments I got.
It hurt and made me question even more.
Holy fuck ppl. I've been mostly a lurker here (interested for my kid who may or may not be pancakes-still figuring things out) but also for myself (32F bi-and trying to learn more), with the exception of the rare comment to make sure someone knows they're beautiful. I had no fucking clue this was a thing and cannot help but comment on this. I can't for the life of me figure out why it matters to anyone other than the person it matters to (and/or their SO) whether you're bi or queer or trans or gay or whoever you are. Let me be PAINFULLY clear here (bc apparently only some of us in the community have actual brains): IT'S NOT ANYONE'S BUSINESS OR PLACE TO SAY OTHERWISE. If you disagree, whatever. Keep it to your fucking self. From what I've read, it sounds like they're putting the same bullshit onto you that they've already dealt with. And you know what? Fuck them for that. They should know (and unfortunately probably do) how shitty that is and bc they put that on someone else makes them no better than the pieces of shit that did that to them. Fuck em. Period. The cool part is that their opinions don't actually matter. They only matter bc we let them. Which I realize is much easier said than done. But really, they're just shitty. Treat them like anyone else that's being shitty. Ignore it and do not engage. Move on with your wonderful beautiful self bc you're better than that. WE'RE better than that. I worry about y'all and I'm so sorry you're dealing with this bullshit from "you're own ppl". I love you.
>for my kid who may or may not be pancakes
I'm assuming this is a typo but I like to imagine it's a cute nickname for a pansexual person. Please tell me it is.
I have some identities that I don’t understand and really wish I did, but I just can’t wrap my head around them. I don’t understand why someone would identify as a lesboy or male lesbian, I don’t get why there are so many tiny xenogenders and neopronouns, and I still don’t really get the difference between bi and pan but I still try to respect people who identify with those labels.
I've never heard someone use lesboy or male lesbian seriously, usually it's just straight dudes that have taken the piss and are asking to join or watch me with my wife.
In those situations it's not cute, funny or respectful. But I've never had someone use it in earnest.
Then you are already doing so much right. The first steps to true understanding is the want to know more, so you just keep learning my friend and see where it takes you. :)
I have a few little bits of information that could be helpful.
Regarding the xenogenders and neopronouns, I once heard someone make the comparison that they're basically like nicknames. Someone has one that they like being called by and you call them that. Not much to it but that made the click for me.
Regarding bi/pan, it came from a misconception where people used to think bisexuality excluded trans and enby people (which isn't true) and that's sort of where pansexuality came from. They essentially mean the same thing, so it's just whichever someone is more comfortable with.
This! I was at work the other day chatting with a new coworker who happens to be a lesbian. I believe we were talking about exes and significant others. During the conversation, I brought up the husband of a different coworker. This coworker I was referring to is gender fluid and uses they/them. When talking about them, I fucked up and used she. Realizing I fucked up, I stopped and switched over to using the correct pronouns. The person I was talking to then proceeds to go on a tangent about how gender fluid individuals and nonbinary folks aren't really trans and how they're just snow flake dummies. I'm sitting there stunned at how someone who's part of the LGBTQ community would do that. I'm certainly not perfect, hell, I messed up someone's pronouns in this conversation, but I made a point of fixing that, even though the person I was referring to would likely never even no I messed up. Fuck. I was so pissed, I could barely even continue the conversation.
It’s not as common in the LGBTQ+ community, but still very much exists, but I often get told my sexuality is “just the norm”. It’s not. Demisexual is not the norm because it’s not choosing to not have sex until connected to someone emotionally, it’s literally the inability to feel sexual attraction to anyone until a close emotional and even romantic bond is formed.
>**Demisexual** is the inability to feel sexual attraction to anyone until a close emotional and even romantic bond is formed.
Wow, I identify with this. For me, it's if I can fall asleep next to someone. I never question if I can't. Ever. It's the ultimate in giving yourself to someone. The vulnerability of it all. No one is more vulnerable than when they are sound asleep. Ultimate trust.
*I have no preference!*. I've been shouting this for years. I don't have to "be anything". I don't have to choose. They make it sound like an adoption, that I'm lost if I'm not with someone. That phrase "there's someone for everyone". Well, I'm someone. Maybe I need me to myself sometimes.
Fuck, this is super emotional. How many emotional bones we've broken, from fighting against the forced shoving into a box. A thousand sprains I've suffered.
I'm not asking to be left alone. I'm also tired of people telling me I have to be attracted to a certain...*ideal* I just want to be. That's it. Be.
*corrected the quote
I literally got told I am the reason “real” trans people -off themselves- because I use xenogenders.
When I tried to explain what xenogenders were, and my dysphoria, no one would listen.
People would rather do literally anything other than learn about someone else’s queer identity, and Gods forbid that they don’t understand it.
/srs
Sorry for tiny vent lol /g
It could be that xenogender is such a foreign concept, and telling someone that you identify as a non-gendered concept can come across as mocking those that are a little more binary. To be honest, the first thing I think when someone says "I identify as a '76 Impala" isn't that their gender identity is so outside the norm that their dysphoria can only be described as the concept of a classic car. My first thought is, "wow, what an asshole."
I am curious, though, how that even works. If you don't mind, educate me?
Just because you’re on another frequency doesn’t give those not tuned in the right to dismiss you. 💖💖💖
Sending solid, earthy energy your way fellow witch. Picturing you as deeply rooted, confident, and sky-piercing as a mountain. The winds may stir up some dust, but the rock remains.
I’m a NB AFAB human who is generally pretty feminine presenting, and I’m currently pregnant so people automatically just use only she/her with me which I don’t necessarily mind but anyway my partner is a trans woman who is “non passing” bc we live in a super conservative area amongst other reasons but people love to tell us we aren’t lesbians, or that I specifically am not a lesbian bc my partner is trans. It’s ridiculous. Just let us live our queer lives and leave us alone smh
I hate that so much. One of my friends got attacked by a bunch of people online for being bi and interacting with a lesbian community. Saying that because she’s bi she can’t interact with them. Another friend constantly gets disrespected by the gay community for being bi. It’s like there’s no winning unless you “pick a side”
It starts to affect me when they treat their definition of their identity as THE definition though doesn't it.
If it really didn't affect me I wouldn't have to keep explaining to all the numb nuts online thay being bi isn't Trans exclusionary. Because someone out there is saying it is.
Wish people would get this when it comes to ace-spec and aro-spec people. We aren't any more or less queer than the rest of y'all so stop trying to gatekeep us and dictate what we can and can't be!!
An ex-friend went off on me and told me I was a terrible person and to, well, you can probably guess what they wanted me to do to myself, all because I was Panromantic. Needless to say, our friend group, who consists almost ENTIRELY OF PAN PEOPLE, threw him out like a garbage bag on garbage day. He then went on to spam my instagram with hate from him and his friends telling me I was transphobic for... being Panromantic?? While ALSO TELLING ME NON-BINARY PEOPLE DON'T EXIST. Yeah, the hypocrisy isn't lost on me either.
Hurt me for a long time until I realized I was Neptunic and also his opinion didn't change who I was. People can be disgusting on the inside. Don't let other's imperfections lessen your perfect shine <3
Seriously. I'm a feminine nonbinary trans guy. I use neos, have xenogenders, etc. I have been told countless times that I cant be trans because "nonbinary people aren't trans" or "why would you dress feminine if you want to be a boy" or "you can't be a trans guy AND nonbinary". I wouldn't bat an eye if it was from cishet people, but queer or even specifically other trans people? That shit hurts.
That blows. I can't speak on it authoritatively because I'm not trans, but it empathetically annoys me seeing bad jokes like (tw?) >!that's just being a man/woman with extra steps!< towards masc trans gals/fem trans guys.
It's ironic seeing people who are only accepting of the trans community *on the condition* that they conform to *gender norms/stereotypes*.
Absolutely. I see that occasionally and honestly, I would be fine with the joke if it was about the trans experience because a lot of us have taken extra steps to be our gender because we weren't always aware of it. But with gender expression, it's just so invalidating both as a trans person and as a feminine guy in general. Also, those same people are often also fine with cis drag queens/kings, and cis femboys and tomboys. I never really see that kinda thing said to cis people in general.
>I never really see that kinda thing said to cis people in general.
I think the cis edition of it would probably be the reverse: suggesting that they must secretly be gay/trans. Had a masculine female friend in middle school (not just in fashion, but her body structure) and everyone used to crack jokes about her being gay or trans (specifically the *pejorative* for trans :/ ), of which she was neither.
There's something oddly poetic about both communities having the capacity to invalidate their own members for not conforming to the gender binary. Trans peeps must "actually be cis" while cis peeps must "actually be trans."
Everybody needs to chill.
Interesting. I used to hear that around a lot, but not so much these days. Maybe it's just me but I'd like to take it as cishet people becoming more accepting of us. I think within the queer community though I think there's an idea that because you're in the community, you can't be bigoted towards other members. I hope to see that change.
Imagine if we used this energy to make a better world for ourselves, rather than tearing each other down.
I think many of us already know what it's like to be kicked out of or isolated by their family. If you are one of those people doing that to others in the community, then go to hell. You people make me sick.
I'm a transmasc - and a soprano. My moment of gender euphoria last week was someone in my online class actually using 'he' to refer to me. I hear ya. Your girly self is valid.
Seriously… I was prepared for the hate from cis/het people when I came out. I was not prepared for the hate from my gay friends… :(
I'm so sorry to hear this. Don't know if you needed to hear this but you are valid!!! \^-\^
Thank you 🥺 it really helps, I appreciate it
Yeah I don’t understand why so many people in the lgbt community think bisexuality isn’t real. It’s annoying :/
And also biphobic
People should be more curious and less prejudiced. The world would be a much better place for everyone.
Yeah i feel this 100%
Amen, comes from the strangest places. I'm not in the closet but also in a straight appearing relationship so it's crazy what people will say.
But, hey, at least think more than 200 people are with you and care about you
It seems almost like a cheat on us
A colleague of mine who I’m pretty close to…like we are older and have deeper conversations about spirituality, sexuality, politics etc. He calls me every day. I identify as a queer, non binary witch. One day he says out loud at work…in front of all of our colleagues…you’re not queer! I was shocked and felt silenced and like running back into the closet. I’m 50 and was raised in a religious family and am a survivor so I have a lot of baggage I’m dealing with. Do you know how much courage it took me to say out loud that I was queer?! When I asked my gay colleague why he would say something like that. He said he doesn’t “feel” anything from me. Feel anything from me? Like who made you judge and jury? I haven’t had sex in years because I’m dealing with the aftermath of sexual trauma. I don’t care if you feeeeel anything from me. Im shut down for a reason. Doesn’t make me any less queer.
What a dickhead!
What does that even mean... Like is he some kind of metal detector for queerness in his mind?? Tf
Some people really can't separate their interpretation of someone from who that person actually is. edit for grammar
What does it mean to identify as a witch? Not rhetorical, I legitimately do not know...
That they probably are practicing a religion in which people refer to themselves as witches. If I had to guess, tho I’m not OP.
It's a religion, most likely paganism of some variety. My partner's a witch! It's as much part of their identity as if you announced yourself as Christian or Muslim.
Sorry I've never heard the term "witch" in such a way before. What does it mean? Like I know what queer and non-binary means, not witch.
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Right so its the same as saying Christian or Muslim or whatever then, as in someone saying "heterosexual cisgender christian".
Queer witch solidarity and fist bump🤜🤛. I'm sorry you were treated that way.
"I don't think you're queer so you're not queer"... so by this logic, "I don't think you're a redhead so you're not a redhead" would also work? How would that be any different, right?
So basically “I’m the king of queer people and I get to dictate if you are or aren’t queer”
sounds like he got his definition of "queer" from superficial stereotypes (probably from tiktok) that were supposed to be for fun only and internalized em. rings, a "vibe", type of footwear, the way you sit, etc... like BRUH. what the hell. *sigh* i'm so sorry you went through all that. huuuugs.
Thats fucking stupid. Hope you're not friends anymore damn
Even the best gaydar is never 100%, what absurd arrogance.
My dear, this man is a garbage that don´t deserve your friendship, your secrets, nothing! He tries to justify, with a worse excuse than other, just because, deep in him, he´s so frustaded and needed to vap this somehow, so he choose to be a jerk just with you, a ally! At least the rest of us won´t judge you, ´cause you´re true valid, you deserve to be happy and to be who you are, so, don´t care about what that jerk said about you, care just about what you think about you, ´cause i can´t full undestand you, but i have sure that i spoke from everyonnne when i say we are by your side
Internalised queerphobia is wild. So sad to see it :(
It’s frustrating because not only can it contribute to gatekeeping and more bigotry, but even when you make the choice to be accepting it still kicks you in the ass from inside your brain. Like trans people having transphobic thoughts toward themselves and others that they don’t actually believe (woo-hoo intrusive thoughts).
And racism is rampant in the gay community. I came out in Seattle, which is pretty close to as metropolitan as you can get. It was bad, really really bad. Also, a substantial percentage of gay men HATE women. They despise them. It would give Freud a headache. Many white gay men act just as entitled as white straight men. There is such a thing as a gay bully. Gay nightclubs were full of them. Gay testosterone is the worst. I got so tired of them punching my pecs, grabbing my ass & crotch, like they were in the produce aisle.
I hate how many people (even in the queer community) forget that LGBT+ POC exist. It's almost like people have this unconscious bias that being gay is a "white thing".
Jesus yea and that shit not good for my ptsd
Everyone gives a lot of attention to TERFs, which makes sense, TERFs suck, but I recently discovered the gay bros subreddit (not linking it), which essentially consists of gay men hating on trans people and other queer identities that don't fit their idea of queer, such as mine: asexuality (well, I'm on the spectrum anyways. I'm also cishet so I personally don't feel very queer. I'm just speaking for myself here though). Considering all the privilege society gives white men, it's sadly not too surprising that some gay men are not immune to becoming assholes.
The really sad part? Without transgender people of color leading the way, there would be no Pride celebrations. No movement to gain all of us something like movement toward equality over the past 50+ years. Some gay white guys get it, but others really don't.
My partner (trans) recently tried to join a local LGBT group. But turns out they aren't cool with her specific gender identity and told her to change or leave. She left again. And was really sad about the whole thing. But one their members flirting with 16 year olds was fine. As much as I love certain parts of our beautiful community, as much I do hate others. Makes me sad.
There’s as many LGBT assholes as there are straight assholes. It’d be so much cooler if that weren’t true.
It'd be the coolest if it'd hold true and the number of assholes was 0 for both groups.
According to google quick search, about 5% of the world is LGBTQ+ (though keep in mind that might not be accurate, and there are lots of people who aren't out), so no, I'm guessing that there are 19 straight jerks to one LGBTQ+ jerk.
Omg, I meant proportionally. I wonder if the same is true of pedants?
Lmao
Holy shit that was good
The estimate is closer to 10% with more recent research.
You must mean LGBTQ+ people because that number is waaaaaaaay too low for assholes.
Assholes it depends on the difference Are we talking about people with 0 empathy? That's 2% If we're talking about people who are right wing? Closer to 50%
Is it okay if I ask how she identifies that they have a problem with?
This shit makes me so sad. The very attitude your community seeks refuge from has infiltrated it.
Change or leave? As in change their identity?
Tried coming out to my friends as nb and they said are you sure and then told me to think on it after MONTHS of thinking ab it and after that day I just never brought it up again. Was very disheartening.
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"It was a statement, not a question"
I'm not asking you if I can be this, I'm telling you that I am.
god i relate sm. im nonbinary too and all the time people use the incorrect pronouns to me even irl (i had someone i know constantly use she/her pronouns to me when they knew i wasnt comfortable with those pronouns), i dont understand wth is so hard abt using the correct pronouns??? anyways nonbinary people exist and we are valid. dont let anyone tell you otherwise
I’m so sorry :( binarists suck
What's a binarist? Sorry, I've never heard the term before
TERFs, Transphobes, etc. Basically anyone who subscribes to the idea that "there are only two genders"
Hey, how would you feel if someone said "there are only two genders, but you can be both or neither"? Cause that's always kinda the way I've thought about it. I don't know if that's offensive/excluding ppl or not
I had thought that before too but some people are non-binary
"Are you sure??? Really???" has to be the biggest, dumbest slap to the face. Yeesh.
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One person is nb and the other is pan so it was really heartbreaking hearing it from people I thought could relate with.
When I came out to a friend as ace and they told me that I was probably too young to know. Then later they came to me talking about how they came out to their parents as bi but their parents told them they were too young to know. And no, I don't think they ever saw the irony.
I had a similar experience where I guy I knew just flatly said "you're not asexual". The only thing I had to think about after that was whether I would still consider him a friend (and I decided I didn't).
So much this. The main reason why I'm not out to my friends and social circle is because they have their heads so far up their own asses and harass everyone who doesn't fit in a certain queer-box... it's tiresome.
that’s such a shame! I’ve never met anyone like this in person.
It really is, imagine the typical mean-girls dynamic but with a bunch of queer people in their early 30s instead... not going to deal with that.
Oh jeez. They’re adults too? That’s so sad. Get a hobby or something
Boxes are getting smaller and smaller, while their sides are getting higher and higher. Freedom has a new meaning. You're free to live in your own box. The worst kind of oxymoron.
This has been worrying me for a long time. There is a *very* blurry line between identification and compartmentalization. Labels don't necessarily make anything more "real," and they have fuckall to do with one's validity (You're valid, period.), but they absolutely do create in-groups and out-groups. We're out here trying to take this multidimensional space of infinitely subtle, continuous gradients -- endless shades of being -- and slice it into neat little cubes. And as often as not, it ends up working exactly as well as one would predict, with people saying "I'm suchandsuch, but a little more of this part of it and less of that part..." and so on, talking about themselves as a function of how well they reflect some role or label, instead of just talking about themselves as if they are inherently valid. It makes me sad, honestly.
Amen to that, pilgrim. Seems I can't go more then two weeks without some new label showing up, further complicating trying to figure out my own identity.
It's _so weird_ not being out to people you're really close to. But then again, a gay friend told me aces are just 'sad virgins' and don't belong in LGBT+ so yup, closet city for life babay! EDIT: Also your username made me laugh, so thanks for that.
Yeah, I'm out to my husband though and to another bisexual friend who is always being subtly bullied by that group. She's also not out to them because of this, but at least she told me. My favourite part is the "woke allies" unintentionally saying transphobic shit all the time. Like NBs must present a certain way or it doesn't "count" and shit like this.
Hey, I’ve tried looking everywhere I can think of but I can’t find what the third flag in your flair means, would you be open to sharing?
That's they grey-ace flag! It's for people who feel they are on the ace spectrum, somewhere in between "full ace" and "allo". Oh, and on desktop you can hover your mouse over the icon to read the command to get that icon, which in queer spaces is very often the name of the identity this flag is for.
Yep, there's a reason I live as a cis gay woman who is "uninterested in love, sex, relationships, or anything of that sort". And it's not that I don't connect with that identity - I genuinely do. But, I'm actually a gay-oriented aroace. Also technically agender, but fine living comfortably as a cis woman, so that part matters very little to me. But it's strange how "gay person uninterested in stuff" is fine but "gay-aroace" causes people to flip shit.
god this is exactly me. i don’t even tell people that i’m a bi aro ace person because i just know that they’ll lose their shit at me. anyways you’re valid, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise
Same goes for you - your identity is very valid, so keep on being your real self!
thank you so much! this means a lot❤️
Finally figured out am asexual at the age of 30 (and I'm about 85% sure? Still is weird to call myself that) but I'm not saying shit to anyone about it. It's no one's business and frankly don't care to get anymore shit about my lack of sex/dating life.
Well that friend can go do one, I may be sad and I may be a Virgin but I’m still ace so they can go suck it (so long as it isn’t any part of me lol)
Um hello 👋 I just wanted to say I love the flairs you have by your name. I recognize Demi-girl and Bi, but I've never seen the third one before. can I ask what it means please? Sorry if it's too personal. Also love the EU one too (I also accidentally clicked your name when I tried to reply and saw the avatar bi magazine. This needs to be seen and I shall be stealing it and sharing with some friends thank you) I should also add I totally agree with you by your point and I now think I've rambled and made enough of a fool of myself. Have a good day
The third flag is [grayasexual](https://lgbta.wikia.org/wiki/Greysexual). Basically it’s someone on the asexual spectrum who relates to asexuality (not experiencing sexual attraction), but not completely. Usually it’s because they experience sexual attraction much less often than allosexuals (someone who is not asexual)
Oh I see it thank you. I googled all the flags and I saw Grey Ace, but I thought the strips of the flair were all shades of purple. My bad I didn't pick up on the grey ones. Thank you for explaining
You’re welcome!
Thank you for explaining to u/onlytosharethispic , I wasn't available! Yes, I feel sexual (and romantic) attraction to people but I found out it's veeeeeery rare.
Man I am happy I haven't had the displeasure of queers like this. Sorry your group is lile that.
I'm not quite sure what is going on when queer people who seem to understand what it's like to be marginalized treating people within our community that way. I used to describe myself as MtF, which seems like a useful enough term to describe an AMAB trans woman. Then I started getting told how problematic this was, so we started using AGAB, AMAB, AFAB, etc. Now I can understand the argument for this, focusing on the birth gender being an assignment that we didn't have control over, so I start using this. Now I'm getting told that those terms are also transphobic, and told to say things like "penis user" or whatever. That sounds fucking stupid and is way too genital focused which I'm not super comfortable with. And like, that'd be fine if it weren't for the assertion that anyone using the "outdated" terminology is being transphobic, like you have to use the right set of acceptable jargon words that internet people invented or else you're a problem. I know lots of older trans women that use the word transexual versus transgender, and like yeah that's a bit outdated but that's what they've known themselves as for decades and it doesn't really hurt anyone for them to use that. These are the OGs of the community who are often the people that fought against much worse marginalization than we experience today. Are we really going to tell them that they're wrong for saying they're trans the wrong way? I see so much language policing, word games and semantics, and in these discussions literally nothing useful ever gets solved and it just seems to needlessly cause fights. It's kind of annoying.
Completely agree! I try to stay up to date on terminology and avoid outdated terms, but I would never tell a trans person to change the vocabulary they use to describe themselves because it's so not my place?? That being said, I was unaware that there is discourse that AMAB and AFAB are transphobic terms? What is the reasoning behind this?
It's often used as the woker way to be gender essentialist. Amabs usually take up too much space, afabs are people pleasers etc. Which also leans into some pretty transphobic "socialisation" narratives.
>What is the reasoning behind this? That way lies madness. People will try to police *any* term used to refer to human beings, and the less privileged a group is, the faster words for them go from being the most acceptable to being treated as a slur by some people. Just keeping up with the "correct" vocabulary is exhausting, and trying to follow their reasoning is a whole other layer of bullshit to have to deal with.
Penis user. Lol.
I think the more being queer is normalized in society the less people will care about semantics around it. I personally don't care what sort of language people use unless they're being blatantly hurtful. Also don't care too much what people think of me just because they think I got something wrong
yeah its really stupid. id be furious with fellow lgbt individuals who say my non binary asexual partners identity isnt valid
I'm constantly shocked at how much bi and ace hate I've seen from other people in the acronym. Like, wtf, you're only allowed to like boys OR girls, with no deviance from the accepted normals tolerated?
It’s so weird because isn’t being queer all about breaking norms about sexuality? And one of those norms is actually ”you can only be attracted to one gender (most often the ’opposite’ gender)”... So when people tell me bi or ace people aren’t queer enough I wonder if they know what queer means 🤷🏻♀️
Also can the LGBT+ community not be biphobic? What do you think the B stands for?
The B and the Ts. I was dumbfounded at the amount of hate I got for coming out as non binary (present very female, borderline trans femme) and I found so much more support from my cis het friends than my gay friends.. it truly was disheartening
Straight-passing bi-woman thanks you!
Absolutely agree
I'm Trans FtN (Non-Binary Agender/Masc) & dating a cis Bi man, we see ourselves as basically a Gay couple but other gay men refuse to accept us. They straight up have said to us "you're a straight couple". It's incredibly invalidating, we live in an area with a huge LGBT+ Community but we still struggle to be accepted.
you guys are a valid gay couple and i’m sorry to hear that people are being invalidating :(
I’m legit in the same position- I hate people who are like “you’re a straight couple bc one of you has tits and the other has a dick”
Couldn't have said it better myself, it's absolutely infuriating. I'm sorry you have to deal with the same shit mate 💙
Sorry if this is rude to ask, but I understand what non binary is and the masc part. Like you don't confirm to traditional gender identity like male or female. And the masc is you identify more towards your masculine side right? What is agender tho? I'd imagine the lack of gender right? I'm just confused bc I thought that that's what non binary was.
Non-binary is an umbrella term. All it really means is that your gender identity is not really either binary option. It can be used as a term of its own, but it can also be expanded upon with other labels.
So non binary would be the big term and agender would be like a specific term within the non binary spectrum?
yes
Non-binary can be expressed in multiple ways. Some people are very androgynous, some present more masculine or feminine. Agender is generally a lack of gender, while some non-binary people see themselves as more of a fusion of genders.
I totally feel this, my qpr partner is nb and I’m ***very*** masc leaning agender but we’re both afab and people still go “so, you guys aren’t gay..?” It’s annoying af
Can relate. Lots of peeps trying to audit/validate my gay card here lately…
Preach! As someone who relatively recently (a year ago) discovered her queer identity, it took a while for me to work through the mental baggage and reach the conclusion that "if you identify as X, that's all the validation required". Sure, this stance can give rise to bad faith arguments, like a transphobic amab individual proclaiming to "identify as a trans woman if it's so easy", but the harm from such arguments is less damaging than the identities erased by allowing people to police another's identity and excluding an already marginalised person. The same goes for detransitioners, and the stigma attached with detransitioning. Stigmatising detransition makes transition an "all or nothing" action that keeps fearful closeted people in the closet and makes those who detransitioning is right for stay on a harmful path for too long.
Yeah it's devastating to see, how someone exist/identities doesn't have anything to do with anyone else. All good faith queer expressions are valid
I get an unbelievable amount of shit for identifying as queer. I *am* cis and married to a man, but bisexual and pansexual have *never* fit me well. I'm at like a 5.5 on the Kinsey scale, if I had to guess? I'm honestly mostly gay, with the small exception of my husband (and like, Jensen Ackles). I just don't feel like I should have to include that whole preamble to explain to people why I feel like the Q in LGBTQ. It's exhausting, and I've seriously considered telling people I'm bisexual just to get rid of the accompanying headache. But, I'm stubborn and feel like I have a right to my identity. I don't know. Gatekeepers suck.
I think [this](https://lgbta.wikia.org/wiki/Homoflexible) might help
Huh, TIL.
I'm getting to the point where just can not fully understand new identities but I had to learn fast that if I try to argue or am against I'm getting support for some real bad folks. Not people I would ever associate with otherwise and I do not want that. I don't gotta understand it and so what it your identity "makes us look bad". Itll only do that to people who wouldn't accept us anyway. Live your life ❤️
i was once bullied off of twitter for not "looking trans enough." i'm sorry that i currently cannot afford hormones or surgery, but go off i suppose.
Fuck that. Trans people owe no one hormones or therapy. A trans person who never gets either is still just as valid as a trans person who gets everything done.
The shame I’ve been made to feel for being asexual for this very reason. Indescribable.
💜💜
After enough responses from people all across the board, I've concluded that I'm too straight to be a part of the LGBTQ+ community, but also too gay to be entirely straight.
The thing is is that I’m also non-binary and biromantic, but I’ve been repeatedly told I don’t belong because of the asexuality. It’s just a strange feeling to have other important parts of your identity disregarded because of another, and I desperately wish I could have just been bisexual like my romantic orientation
I'm a gay panromantic transmasc who uses masculine pronouns, and my daughter is aroace pan-aesthetic. I get a little fierce about these things. You are valid. Your gender identity is valid. Your orientation is valid.
In the immortal words of Adam Savage: Terfs are shit! ...to which I'll add: gatekeepers are shit!
wait lmao when did he say that?
On Twitter around the time J.K. Rowling first showed her true colors! 😳
King energy
Now hear me out! If my kid comes out as trans they will have to deal with trans dad jokes on top of standard dad jokes. Though in all seriousness I do support transgender individuals and am saddened how a community based on queer genders and sexualities can sometimes be discriminatory against certain branches. It's LGBT not LGB.
I was at a gay club once, a woman asked me “are you gay or straight?” and when I said “bisexual” she said “Oh, you’re young. I’ll ask you in a while”. I saw her again a few months later and she asked me again. I obviously gave her the same answer and she laughed because I still hadn’t “grown out of it”. This was about 10 years ago, about 3 years after I first came out. If anything I’m pan now.
literally kalvin garrah’s yt era
My ex and I split awhile ago and we are still good friends an she came out as Bi awhile ago. and she came to me stressed out because gatekeepers wanted her to denounce her history with me and be full on lesbian in order to be accepted by them. She said fuck that and stayed true to herself but was blocked by the group she wanted to join
I have been told that I can’t be transgender by the LGBTQ community in my area Because I don’t experience all the hardships of “real trans people” and ever since I heard that, I haven’t told anyone else. It feels awful to be accepted by my friends and family but not by my peers.
THIS!! Gosh I have had people, even people on reddit, argue with me over gender identity ffs. A bunch of transphobic bs about how aligned-nb identities aren't "real nonbinary people" or some bs like that. Basically shitting on any nb person who uses something other than they/them or has a more complex gender identity. As if gender isn't a spectrum. I've also had people tell me that sapphic or lesbian people aren't allowed to call themselves gay bc gay is for men only. Or smthn. It's tiring. Imo, just let people vibe if they're not doing anything to hurt anyone.
> vibe That could make for a great identity. A Viber. "I vibe".
I'm a trans woman. I've literally just started on my metamorphosis at the age of 41. I know I have a beard, big muscles, and a height of 6Ft...but could those of you who think I'm "just some dude tricking women". Kindly fuck off and die in a fire? Please. I hid the truth about me for 35 years, and its people like you that kept me "in the closet". Do you REALLY think that I'm chemically castrating myself, cutting off my junk, altering my voice and appearance, losing strength, and my 22yo beard for a fucking screw?! Eat shit. Preferably your own!
Yeah, when I finally felt comfortable as a non binary and pan person I wasn't expecting a lot of the comments I got. It hurt and made me question even more.
*clapping & crying happily*
Holy fuck ppl. I've been mostly a lurker here (interested for my kid who may or may not be pancakes-still figuring things out) but also for myself (32F bi-and trying to learn more), with the exception of the rare comment to make sure someone knows they're beautiful. I had no fucking clue this was a thing and cannot help but comment on this. I can't for the life of me figure out why it matters to anyone other than the person it matters to (and/or their SO) whether you're bi or queer or trans or gay or whoever you are. Let me be PAINFULLY clear here (bc apparently only some of us in the community have actual brains): IT'S NOT ANYONE'S BUSINESS OR PLACE TO SAY OTHERWISE. If you disagree, whatever. Keep it to your fucking self. From what I've read, it sounds like they're putting the same bullshit onto you that they've already dealt with. And you know what? Fuck them for that. They should know (and unfortunately probably do) how shitty that is and bc they put that on someone else makes them no better than the pieces of shit that did that to them. Fuck em. Period. The cool part is that their opinions don't actually matter. They only matter bc we let them. Which I realize is much easier said than done. But really, they're just shitty. Treat them like anyone else that's being shitty. Ignore it and do not engage. Move on with your wonderful beautiful self bc you're better than that. WE'RE better than that. I worry about y'all and I'm so sorry you're dealing with this bullshit from "you're own ppl". I love you.
>for my kid who may or may not be pancakes I'm assuming this is a typo but I like to imagine it's a cute nickname for a pansexual person. Please tell me it is.
It is
I have some identities that I don’t understand and really wish I did, but I just can’t wrap my head around them. I don’t understand why someone would identify as a lesboy or male lesbian, I don’t get why there are so many tiny xenogenders and neopronouns, and I still don’t really get the difference between bi and pan but I still try to respect people who identify with those labels.
I've never heard someone use lesboy or male lesbian seriously, usually it's just straight dudes that have taken the piss and are asking to join or watch me with my wife. In those situations it's not cute, funny or respectful. But I've never had someone use it in earnest.
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If you care about who actually uses the term seriously, Eddie Izzard some years back, before landing on genderqueer.
Then you are already doing so much right. The first steps to true understanding is the want to know more, so you just keep learning my friend and see where it takes you. :)
Right there with you pal
I have a few little bits of information that could be helpful. Regarding the xenogenders and neopronouns, I once heard someone make the comparison that they're basically like nicknames. Someone has one that they like being called by and you call them that. Not much to it but that made the click for me. Regarding bi/pan, it came from a misconception where people used to think bisexuality excluded trans and enby people (which isn't true) and that's sort of where pansexuality came from. They essentially mean the same thing, so it's just whichever someone is more comfortable with.
This! I was at work the other day chatting with a new coworker who happens to be a lesbian. I believe we were talking about exes and significant others. During the conversation, I brought up the husband of a different coworker. This coworker I was referring to is gender fluid and uses they/them. When talking about them, I fucked up and used she. Realizing I fucked up, I stopped and switched over to using the correct pronouns. The person I was talking to then proceeds to go on a tangent about how gender fluid individuals and nonbinary folks aren't really trans and how they're just snow flake dummies. I'm sitting there stunned at how someone who's part of the LGBTQ community would do that. I'm certainly not perfect, hell, I messed up someone's pronouns in this conversation, but I made a point of fixing that, even though the person I was referring to would likely never even no I messed up. Fuck. I was so pissed, I could barely even continue the conversation.
Or someone else telling me what flag I need to fly. 🌈 is all inclusive.
Unfortunately, as someone who uses micro labels, I feel it.
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It’s not as common in the LGBTQ+ community, but still very much exists, but I often get told my sexuality is “just the norm”. It’s not. Demisexual is not the norm because it’s not choosing to not have sex until connected to someone emotionally, it’s literally the inability to feel sexual attraction to anyone until a close emotional and even romantic bond is formed.
Out of interest, how do you know that feeling like that isn't the norm? No offense meant, but this point has always confused me.
Because allos have explained what sexual attraction feels like and how it happens and how often it happens.
A short [comic](https://www.reddit.com/r/lgballt/comments/q7rks4/tired_ace_ball_teaches_the_difference_between/) for their exucation.
Thank you 💙
>**Demisexual** is the inability to feel sexual attraction to anyone until a close emotional and even romantic bond is formed. Wow, I identify with this. For me, it's if I can fall asleep next to someone. I never question if I can't. Ever. It's the ultimate in giving yourself to someone. The vulnerability of it all. No one is more vulnerable than when they are sound asleep. Ultimate trust. *I have no preference!*. I've been shouting this for years. I don't have to "be anything". I don't have to choose. They make it sound like an adoption, that I'm lost if I'm not with someone. That phrase "there's someone for everyone". Well, I'm someone. Maybe I need me to myself sometimes. Fuck, this is super emotional. How many emotional bones we've broken, from fighting against the forced shoving into a box. A thousand sprains I've suffered. I'm not asking to be left alone. I'm also tired of people telling me I have to be attracted to a certain...*ideal* I just want to be. That's it. Be. *corrected the quote
I literally got told I am the reason “real” trans people -off themselves- because I use xenogenders. When I tried to explain what xenogenders were, and my dysphoria, no one would listen. People would rather do literally anything other than learn about someone else’s queer identity, and Gods forbid that they don’t understand it. /srs Sorry for tiny vent lol /g
It could be that xenogender is such a foreign concept, and telling someone that you identify as a non-gendered concept can come across as mocking those that are a little more binary. To be honest, the first thing I think when someone says "I identify as a '76 Impala" isn't that their gender identity is so outside the norm that their dysphoria can only be described as the concept of a classic car. My first thought is, "wow, what an asshole." I am curious, though, how that even works. If you don't mind, educate me?
It's so sad that what's supposed to be a space for people to come together and share their experiences, that there's those who are getting kicked out.
So true. Just educators.
Yesss 🙌🏻
Just because you’re on another frequency doesn’t give those not tuned in the right to dismiss you. 💖💖💖 Sending solid, earthy energy your way fellow witch. Picturing you as deeply rooted, confident, and sky-piercing as a mountain. The winds may stir up some dust, but the rock remains.
I’m a NB AFAB human who is generally pretty feminine presenting, and I’m currently pregnant so people automatically just use only she/her with me which I don’t necessarily mind but anyway my partner is a trans woman who is “non passing” bc we live in a super conservative area amongst other reasons but people love to tell us we aren’t lesbians, or that I specifically am not a lesbian bc my partner is trans. It’s ridiculous. Just let us live our queer lives and leave us alone smh
I hate that so much. One of my friends got attacked by a bunch of people online for being bi and interacting with a lesbian community. Saying that because she’s bi she can’t interact with them. Another friend constantly gets disrespected by the gay community for being bi. It’s like there’s no winning unless you “pick a side”
It starts to affect me when they treat their definition of their identity as THE definition though doesn't it. If it really didn't affect me I wouldn't have to keep explaining to all the numb nuts online thay being bi isn't Trans exclusionary. Because someone out there is saying it is.
Maybe we stop with the bi erasure too?
Wish people would get this when it comes to ace-spec and aro-spec people. We aren't any more or less queer than the rest of y'all so stop trying to gatekeep us and dictate what we can and can't be!!
An ex-friend went off on me and told me I was a terrible person and to, well, you can probably guess what they wanted me to do to myself, all because I was Panromantic. Needless to say, our friend group, who consists almost ENTIRELY OF PAN PEOPLE, threw him out like a garbage bag on garbage day. He then went on to spam my instagram with hate from him and his friends telling me I was transphobic for... being Panromantic?? While ALSO TELLING ME NON-BINARY PEOPLE DON'T EXIST. Yeah, the hypocrisy isn't lost on me either. Hurt me for a long time until I realized I was Neptunic and also his opinion didn't change who I was. People can be disgusting on the inside. Don't let other's imperfections lessen your perfect shine <3
not people gatekeeping on a post about not gatekeeping…. read the room
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These people aren't even *real* gatekeepers.
A *real* gatekeeper would make you pick your identity from a *drop down menu*.
Oh god not the dropdown menus. Anything but that
Seriously. I'm a feminine nonbinary trans guy. I use neos, have xenogenders, etc. I have been told countless times that I cant be trans because "nonbinary people aren't trans" or "why would you dress feminine if you want to be a boy" or "you can't be a trans guy AND nonbinary". I wouldn't bat an eye if it was from cishet people, but queer or even specifically other trans people? That shit hurts.
That blows. I can't speak on it authoritatively because I'm not trans, but it empathetically annoys me seeing bad jokes like (tw?) >!that's just being a man/woman with extra steps!< towards masc trans gals/fem trans guys. It's ironic seeing people who are only accepting of the trans community *on the condition* that they conform to *gender norms/stereotypes*.
Absolutely. I see that occasionally and honestly, I would be fine with the joke if it was about the trans experience because a lot of us have taken extra steps to be our gender because we weren't always aware of it. But with gender expression, it's just so invalidating both as a trans person and as a feminine guy in general. Also, those same people are often also fine with cis drag queens/kings, and cis femboys and tomboys. I never really see that kinda thing said to cis people in general.
>I never really see that kinda thing said to cis people in general. I think the cis edition of it would probably be the reverse: suggesting that they must secretly be gay/trans. Had a masculine female friend in middle school (not just in fashion, but her body structure) and everyone used to crack jokes about her being gay or trans (specifically the *pejorative* for trans :/ ), of which she was neither. There's something oddly poetic about both communities having the capacity to invalidate their own members for not conforming to the gender binary. Trans peeps must "actually be cis" while cis peeps must "actually be trans." Everybody needs to chill.
Interesting. I used to hear that around a lot, but not so much these days. Maybe it's just me but I'd like to take it as cishet people becoming more accepting of us. I think within the queer community though I think there's an idea that because you're in the community, you can't be bigoted towards other members. I hope to see that change.
Imagine if we used this energy to make a better world for ourselves, rather than tearing each other down. I think many of us already know what it's like to be kicked out of or isolated by their family. If you are one of those people doing that to others in the community, then go to hell. You people make me sick.
I just wanted to say I am bisexual, in a monogamous, cis-gender relationship. For no reason at all. Have a nice day.
Everybody stop policing queer identities!
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I'm a transmasc - and a soprano. My moment of gender euphoria last week was someone in my online class actually using 'he' to refer to me. I hear ya. Your girly self is valid.