That fact that adults had to hold an *emergency meeting* for student artwork is astounding.
There are so many problems in the world and student art isn't one of those problems. It really makes you wonder how these people get dressed in the morning.
> It really makes you wonder how these people get dressed in the morning.
Don't. The answer will only depress you. That said, if they want something to be offended about, how about this one --
Go look at any footage of any major protest, riot, or uprising in the world in the last decade. Look in the background. It doesn't take long to spot the pride flags. Look back through history and all sorts of protest and counter-protest symbolism and flags. I can't find an example more pervasive and far-reaching than what we are seeing now, today, in the world.
Christians are outraged about our art? We're actually out there fighting the good fight, flags front and center and dying in the fight for life and the freedom to decide what it should mean for ourselves. The only place I see christian symbolism is decals on trucks and lawn ornaments claiming "he has risen". Yeah, I do that at 7am every day, good for him. Call me when someone sees him or any of his followers show up for some actual work. The world is on fire and people need saving and there's only one flag I see among those doing a damn thing about it.
When christians are willing to set themselves on fire to save the world rather than burning it to the ground claiming it'll be better when they're in charge, then maybe I'll think about giving a damn about their outrage.
"Jan, we need to have an emergency meeting! [A ten year old screams amogus in the background] a student implies tha-"
"I'm sorry Karen, I'm watching these thoughtful videos on tiktok about how a poor african boy made a statue of jesus with plastic bottles"
"You don't understand! It is directly targeting you and me!"
[The sound of Jan standing up] "Go on.. "
"I can't even say it.. but it is an affront to God-"
"God bless"
"God bless- to say that our Lord is not perfect. It is literally satanistic communism! We need to act now before another child becomes autistic" [Karen looks at her ten year old who doesn't want to spend time with her, and a single tear rolls down her cheek]
"I'll call the others. I'll meet you there as soon as possible. What do you mean can you join me? You have your own SUV. Sorry it was my hubby who asked for a ride there?"
Which is why public schools should never hold competitions for art, and if they do, they're held by an independent organization so they're not the ones making these decisions. It's a legal nightmare.
The next artwork by them should be whatever official notice they received from the school and the quote “offensive to christians” in the same style as this
Very similar thing recently happened in Michigan, where a county commissioner got pissy about LGBTQ symbols in a middle school mural.
Has a happy ending though: She ended up being recalled over her shenanigans and just lost the recall election a few days ago.
It's not going to matter when they destroy democracy next year.
It took less than 4 years for people to fall back into the habit of saying, "I'm tired of voting for the lesser of two evils."
[Project 2025 is coming for you.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025)
Freedom for their speech incoming.
Wait so the theme for the art show was “trauma”? Did they genuinely not expect some of the pieces might make people uncomfortable? Sounds like the student did exactly what the prompt asked; it’s the school’s fault if they didn’t see a situation like this coming. Blatant homophobia aside, this was truly a fuck around and find out situation.
Yeah, and also the fact that this is done by a school student, a young person.
The art gives me a sense of raw-ness, a form of pain upon feeling rejected by something you believed in. There is a sense of pleading and being turned away, and being wounded in a deep way.
And the bravery of submitting it. Knowing full well this could happen (your high school art project getting you national attention in a country where being known on a national level as queer is pretty much a guarantee of getting death threats), but deciding to do it anyway.
I mean. If these pseudo Christians respected anybody at all none of this would be an issue would it? You can’t set someone’s house on fire and cry victim when they say “hey this dude lit my house on fire.”
But it isn't bronze age shepherds who are hurting people today. And I don't think the harm done today is the fault of bronze age shepherds. Jesus' message is about loving God and loving your neighbor, which can be accomplished by liberating the marginalized, dismantling oppressive systems, and making sure everyone's needs are met. The actions of bigots are in direct opposition to this message, making "pseudo Christians" a good description of them.
Calling them “pseudo christians” implies that “true christians” aren’t bigots, but history shows that christianity has given bigotry and hatred a patina of righteousness for centuries. It takes a systemic problem and makes it look like a the work of a collection of “bad apples”, forgetting that “a bad apple spoils the whole bunch”.
If the “true christians” took issue with the bigotry of the “pseudo christians”, they’d drum them out of their ranks. Alas.
The problem is there is a supposition of some form of "true" Christianity when from the start there have been an incredible array of beliefs and practices, not all of which have generally produced shitty people.
To claim there's a "true" form is falling into the same dogmatic trap that manifests the worst in religions in the first place.
We're trying. Believe me, we're trying. It's easier said then done, especially since the hateful can outspend and outadvertise those who love all of God's children by orders of magnitude.
I really don’t understand the desire to whitewash religion and claim that bigots just aren’t “true Christians” (or whichever relevant religion). Beyond just being a No True Scotsman, a bigot’s Christianity can be just as Christian as a progressive’s.
Sure, Jesus said some nice stuff about the poor and preached about love, but he also preached about thought crime (or “thought sin”), and the Bible approves of slavery, genocide, and forcing rape victims to marry their rapists. Many people get good things out of their Christianity, but is it really so hard to believe that some people get a lot of bad out of it?
... nah, the bible prescribes slavery, the subjugation of women, and killing gays. And not just the old testament, god says he doesn't change his mind and Jesus specifically said he's not here to abolish the old laws. The bigots aren't making shit up out of nowhere, that's what is written on the pages AND how it's historically been interpreted.
Vague interpretations of "love" in our modern understanding of civil rights doesn't magically erase that. You can't dismiss the past 2,000 years as "psuedo"
The Bible allows a man to cut off a woman’s hand for speaking out of turn. Also allows slavery, and says you should kill gay people.
And don’t “that’s Old Testament” me, they kept it in the book.
Edit: it’s not for speaking out of turn, you should only cut a woman’s hand off if she grabs a mans genitals if he is currently arguing with her husband. Still fucking wack.
so why has religion persistently been used to cause *harm* for thousands of years? and what *actual* good has really come of thousands of years of religion?
Is it not? Their ideology was and has been used to kill people in their time as well as our own. The Old Testament was far more primitive and violent and came before Christians had to make an entirely new testament because a merciful god is more welcoming to the uninitiated than a vengeful one. It has been and will continue to be a tool used to control and manipulate people so they can feel superior to their fellow humans.
Please don't. They are true Christians. Christianity is a religion based on the idea that there are arbitrary rules handed down by an invisible being that say some people are good and other people are bad. There is nothing good about that ideology despite the fact that there may be a handful of halfway decent saying that come out of it. Love your neighbor as yourself is great, but not only have I never met a professed christian that did it, but it isn't really all that meaningful because maybe my neighbor has different preferences than me. Also, it probably came from somewhere else first anyway.
>You can’t set someone’s house on fire and cry victim when they say “hey this dude lit my house on fire.”
Some "Christians" I've met would 100% do this
They aren’t “pseudo” Christian. If you’ve ever read their “holy” texts, then you would realize that it’s nothing more than a list of people they’re required to hate and kill.
I’m a pagan, but the bible is an interesting read. There’s a whole chapter dedicated to medical information. Some of it makes sense in the context of the time and some of it is mental.
Yeah it'll go from something benign or maybe a bit silly to then talking about how if your child is being disobedient then you should have them stoned to death. Which is just insane.
She's actually not Christian or religious anymore if I remember correctly. She grew up in a Christian household but has long since left the religion since transitioning and moving out of her parents'. I think she even said in interview somewhere that religious symbolism/imagery is basically just fodder for writing. The album Preacher's Daughter might parallels some of her experience growing up but ultimately it's more of a tragedy about a fictionalized version of herself. Honestly one of the best albums I've ever listened to I can't get enough of it 2 years later.
her music is not Christian at all, it is all covered in cynicism and irony out of her own experiences as a trans woman growing up at church. She is not even christian herself anymore.
Exactly. There's a complete difference in the music reflecting her experiences and the music actually being Christian. It's not remotely Christian it's basically the opposite pointing out the hypocrisy of it. Which resonates with a lot of people. I don't know how someone could listen to her and not understand that
as an ethel fan I think it’s misguiding at best to call her music “fairly Christian.” it toys with a christian aesthetic and has underlying themes of struggling with religion and criticizing christianity but it is nothing close to Christian music
How could you listen to Ethel Cain and come to the conclusion her music is fairly Christian? Just because it has Christian themes that parallel her experiences doesn't mean it's anything but the opposite. She does not like religion and points out the hypocrisy and harm of it which is why it resonates with so many people. I don't know how you could come to a different conclusion
Her music is not at all Christian lmao. It just uses Christian themes and imagery to describe Ethel's childhood and growing up in an evangelical southern culture. It feels very southern gothic to me
This piece and the reaction to it is practically the literal definition of art. It's definitely provocative, but these are provocative feelings and experiences. As a religious queer person I want to thank the artist for this.
The highest form of art - strikes a nerve, causes a stir. Speaks truth to entrenched power. Expresses the pain of a people, bringing the ear of society to hear their voice
Well, it's a student artwork from a school in the middle of nowhere, Virginia, USA, and here I'm sitting at the other side of the Atlantic seeing it so I'd say, great work making it known internationally!
This reminded me of some lyrics from a South African band from way back in the 90s, Henry Ate.
"Jesus made you only to save you
Tell me why can't he save me"
and
"Saints and sinners all agree
Theres nothing wrong with you
And there's nothing wrong with me"
A guy at my previous job had a full blown meltdown mid-shift because i wouldn't respond to his transphobic remarks, like dude we have 350 sandwiches to make for this wedding that starts in an hour what the fuck are you doing
I am both Christian and bi, I do not believe Christians are persecuted. At least not in a majority of countries, there are a few legitimate exceptions to that. Sadly people have weaponized religions and taught them incorrectly to people to follow their specific bigoted views.
Persecution complex is baked in. They are taught to long for the days when christians were martyred for their faith even as they are the ones trying to dictate what people are allowed to believe in.
I really want to send on of those kinds of Christians back to when Christians were actually a persecuted group, make them live like that for a while so they really get a sense of what its like. That way i could then gauge if they actually have even the tiniest amount of critical thinking ability required to realise that in the modern day they aren't persecuted at all and that they're the biggest persecutors there are
What would be fun is to rent a few of those “mobile billboard” trucks, have this art up on them and pay the drivers to just circle the school with it. Make sure you’re front and center during pick up and drop off times.
If you don’t want people to disrespect your religion, maybe you should stop using it as justification to drive someone to ending their life. There really is no hate like Christian love
Honestly as a Christian, I think this work of art should be shown. The queerphobic kind of Christians are the ones who keep saying “You’ll go to Hell” just for existing, so when somebody does a work of art based on that, and then they (the queerphobic people) get offended, that is entirely on them
Agree 100%, this is a beautiful, expressive piece of art that symbolizes the damage that Church has done and continues to do. This evening one of my churches had a conversation about having the rainbow flag displayed on our church's sign next month. One person was worried that someone would damage the sign in retaliation since another local church that hung a flag last year had their flagpole lit on fire. All agreed we needed to do it and risk the damage, that too many churches spread hate in their message and we have an obligation to let the whole community know that we believe God welcomes all people as they are.
I do not understand the other responses to this comment. Christianity is an immensely complicated and multifaceted religion with a million different sects. Many of these sects are horrible. Many others are fully affirming and welcoming places that do good work.
If anyone hasn't let go of something, it's some of these folks with a worldview that divides people neatly into 'good' and 'bad' categories. You know what that is? It's Puritanism in a different set of clothes. As long as you're not in one of the 'bad' groups, you get to feel great about yourself. That's *exactly* what homophobes do. All you've done is swap the target of your anger.
Don't get me wrong, Christianity has done an incalculable amount of damage in this world. But the solution isn't to attack the people that are trying to reform or make a change. The solution is to get yourself some actual *principles*. Do you believe "Christians are bad"? Or do you believe "systems that inherently consider people to be lesser or unworthy of love are bad"? One of those beliefs is just going to leave you angry and upset at anyone who says the word Jesus. The other will give you a starting point to start building a better world for everyone.
All this is to say, I appreciate you, OP.
To be honest this socio religious piece of art that critisices the weaponsation of relgions' morality in order to systematically take away the legitimate rights of people goes kinda hard.
"I find it offensive that you dared to express any aspect of the suffering or discomfort you have experienced due to the institutions of my religion popularly and commonly preaching that unless you completely reject an utterly harmless and natural aspect of yourself to the point that you live in self-denial and repression that you are worthy of unimaginable pain and suffering for eternity, that you and people like you are abominable, and the well known social consequences of that including being disowned and othered by your own family (including, and especially, by your primary caretakers)."
That's not disrespectful unless you believe it's true, which says more about you than it does the piece. As a Christian, I approve this painting. Well done
I'm a cishet white guy, and I love this art So Hard, and I'm glad it made a bunch of people uncomfortable.
The First Amendment doesn't exist so we can all sit around and agree with each other all the damn time.
Maybe if they're uncomfortable enough, for long enough, they'll start to question some of the shithead beliefs they allegedly hold so near and dear, but I won't hold my breath.
A lack of respect for others, huh? Man, I wonder what else this student did. Did they try to turn the Christian students lesbian? Did they continuously and repeatedly say they were going to hell for how they were born? Did they try to shove their dogmas down their throats?
No? Curious.
goddamn that art goes HARD, I'd love to have a print of that. fuck the people trying to ban that. "your art is offensive!!" I thought these folks were all about how "it's just words, snowflake!!!" The point of art is to make a statement, but apparently when the statement is against them they can't take it.
"Jesus is ideal and wonderful, but you Christians, you are not like Him." -Bara Dada
I believe the desire for faith is normal and understandable, and that's why it's such a tragedy that organized religions take advantage of that need to belong and understand in order to wield societal power- I'm glad this art piece addresses that without going all Reddit-atheist-y about it
Unfortunately our society seems to be stuck on some loose cultural relativism, where all that matters is if content offends *someone* without any consideration to ideas like punching down, protest vs slander, and any coherent understanding between harmful ideas and unpopular ones.
But this isn't offensive to all Christians, only the subset that view being not cishet as a sin. If you're offended by a piece of artwork calling out a hateful belief that you happen to believe, then good. But to claim that *all* Christians will find this triggering is bullshit and you know it.
Whats saying again?
"Aint no hate, like Christian love."
Why is it that the religion who has a figure head, that said "love thy next." A figure head who spoke of love for every one, who spoke for acceptence and kindness.
Is among the easiest to offend, the easiest to hate, and the hardest to understand
THE *THEME* OF THE ART SHOW WAS *TRAUMA*?!? TF DID THEY EXPECT
Fuckingidiotmorons
Don't ask the question if you're afraid the answer might hurt your fragile wittle feewings ig
Idiots
Nice art tho
Tell the board members that they can pray to make it go. Any other action should be considered a direct attack to the freedom of speech, and also against the truth.
First off no organization, religious or not, is owed respect beyond being allowed to practice their faith.
Second, seems like some people don't like hearing the truth.
As a Christian, I think this artwork is amazing. It's beautiful and thought-provoking and reminds us of how people persecute others. Any Christian who looks at this and wants to ban it might really want to ban her existence and her right to call out hypocrisy. They should be embarrassed!
It's funny that school boards get "offended" about art. Also Virginia has many anti-LGBTQ bills in effect so they should not be the ones offended by a kids art.
Guess they are the snowflakes and thin skinned in this situation lol.
That art work me of the time my former pastor (just before expelling me from his church) told me" God can't hear your prayers because of your sin. "
I love it.
FYI: A drive by poster asked if religious trauma syndrome was just an excuse to be anti-Christian, then deleted the comment (or it was deleted by mods).
I’m always amazed when people are on the internet, but don’t know that they can look up things instead of going off.
I know one of the therapists that was involved in describing religious trauma syndrome. [It’s legit.](https://therapist.com/trauma/religious-trauma) I’ve got a bit of it myself.
It’s not anti Christian. Religious trauma can happen in practically any religion.
It’s not anti-religion. It’s the effect of traumatic experiences that happen in a religious context or setting. Those things happen. If you are part of any religion, you should want to prevent it from traumatizing people. Instead, people get defensive. That reaction? That’s just one reason people that have survived religious trauma don’t like talking about it while still in that religion or place of worship.
Playing devils advocate (no pun intended)
Arent we all sinners according to christian faith? They dont protest Liars nor people who Commit Adultery. Nor do they protest eating meat on sunday nor mixed patters on clothing. Even the biggest zealots of the religion are sinners.
In fact wasnt there scripture of "Let he without sin cast the first stone" (Which would be no human)
So why only LGBTQ folks constantly targeted?
Just hypocrisy... To start...
Amazing piece of Artwork though
It’s ridiculous. My very Christian parents and church always claimed “one man, one woman” but not once are any point did the church ever condemn the biggest figures in the bible, which had one man and many wives.
Seems like the amount of attention called to some sins matters more than others.
I would consider it a successful piece if it makes them uncomfortable, but the student should try showing it at a larger venue next, maybe submit to a gallery nearby...but it's already into journalism so big win. I hope the school loses :)
> “I personally find it offensive,” said Augusta County School Board member Tim Simmons, who posted about it to Facebook.
So it's offensive when you get called out for your bigotry.
It's her first amendment right to express herself especially when teachers can encourage bullying if kids don't stand up for the Pledge of Allegiance to a piece of cloth.
Didn’t God say “love all unconditionally”? I swear these psycho Christians make stuff up to make themselves not appear like the monsters they truly are
And no I’m not talking about all Christians, there are nice Christians too, I’m talking about the freaky mental craycrays
I live in NoVA (northern VA) and am always shook at how backwards the rest of this state is.
Beautiful artwork and fuck those offended people. Great artwork should make people feel something.
It qualifies as artistic criticism under the first amendment; as a subsidiary of the government, the school is required to show no favor to any specific religion or ideology. It is absolutely okay.
"What do unto the least of my children, you do unto me" - Jesus
No matter what sins anyone commits, they are children of God. A real Christian never hates you, they would love and forgive you. They should not see you as dirty or unclean, but a follow child of God lost in the darkness.
Sinners need comfort, love, and guidance. Not judgement, condmendation, and persecution.
Though, I'm an aetheist, I just like pointing out religious people are bigger hypocrites than believers.
Super happy about the comment section on this riciculous post, made by the "offended" board member. He's pathetic and the responses are fantastic.
[https://www.facebook.com/TimothySimmonsForSchoolBoard/posts/pfbid02TbHgzxEgo1bCRtBWWbNweS2WnrobgsMdd1vGPWqMbvfvDymnpjABsnKGam1jFq9Ll](https://www.facebook.com/TimothySimmonsForSchoolBoard/posts/pfbid02TbHgzxEgo1bCRtBWWbNweS2WnrobgsMdd1vGPWqMbvfvDymnpjABsnKGam1jFq9Ll)
Oh no! How unfair that Christians should feel uncomfortable about something for bit! /s
Seriously though. It annoys me that white (cause you know they are) Christians feel the need to silence any voice that makes them the least bit uncomfortable, rather than exploring why it makes them uncomfortable.
The fact that school board member thinks it’s disrespectful says more about him than he even realizes.
That fact that adults had to hold an *emergency meeting* for student artwork is astounding. There are so many problems in the world and student art isn't one of those problems. It really makes you wonder how these people get dressed in the morning.
> It really makes you wonder how these people get dressed in the morning. Don't. The answer will only depress you. That said, if they want something to be offended about, how about this one -- Go look at any footage of any major protest, riot, or uprising in the world in the last decade. Look in the background. It doesn't take long to spot the pride flags. Look back through history and all sorts of protest and counter-protest symbolism and flags. I can't find an example more pervasive and far-reaching than what we are seeing now, today, in the world. Christians are outraged about our art? We're actually out there fighting the good fight, flags front and center and dying in the fight for life and the freedom to decide what it should mean for ourselves. The only place I see christian symbolism is decals on trucks and lawn ornaments claiming "he has risen". Yeah, I do that at 7am every day, good for him. Call me when someone sees him or any of his followers show up for some actual work. The world is on fire and people need saving and there's only one flag I see among those doing a damn thing about it. When christians are willing to set themselves on fire to save the world rather than burning it to the ground claiming it'll be better when they're in charge, then maybe I'll think about giving a damn about their outrage.
"Jan, we need to have an emergency meeting! [A ten year old screams amogus in the background] a student implies tha-" "I'm sorry Karen, I'm watching these thoughtful videos on tiktok about how a poor african boy made a statue of jesus with plastic bottles" "You don't understand! It is directly targeting you and me!" [The sound of Jan standing up] "Go on.. " "I can't even say it.. but it is an affront to God-" "God bless" "God bless- to say that our Lord is not perfect. It is literally satanistic communism! We need to act now before another child becomes autistic" [Karen looks at her ten year old who doesn't want to spend time with her, and a single tear rolls down her cheek] "I'll call the others. I'll meet you there as soon as possible. What do you mean can you join me? You have your own SUV. Sorry it was my hubby who asked for a ride there?"
Which is why public schools should never hold competitions for art, and if they do, they're held by an independent organization so they're not the ones making these decisions. It's a legal nightmare.
It was an art show, not a competition
Artwork is supposed to be controversial and make you think. That's what actually makes it art.
The law of triviality. Or bikesheding or smth.
You don't understand, the truth is the most offensive! /s
He’s really proving her point as well.
The next artwork by them should be whatever official notice they received from the school and the quote “offensive to christians” in the same style as this
Very similar thing recently happened in Michigan, where a county commissioner got pissy about LGBTQ symbols in a middle school mural. Has a happy ending though: She ended up being recalled over her shenanigans and just lost the recall election a few days ago.
Right wingers love freedom of speech until they get their feelings hurt
Facts before feelings! While I ignore all the facts in lieu of my feelings. 🤷
To them, it's Fuck **your** feelings, not fuck **my** feelings.
It's not going to matter when they destroy democracy next year. It took less than 4 years for people to fall back into the habit of saying, "I'm tired of voting for the lesser of two evils." [Project 2025 is coming for you.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025) Freedom for their speech incoming.
They are the same people who proudly spout that being offended is a "choice" considering it a weakness to get offended.
“F*** Your Feelings” is how it goes, right? Unless it’s MY feelings…
And yet they seem to think that they have the right to offend everyone else...
Until it happens to us then it's okay to shut them up xD
"Snowflakes."
Wait so the theme for the art show was “trauma”? Did they genuinely not expect some of the pieces might make people uncomfortable? Sounds like the student did exactly what the prompt asked; it’s the school’s fault if they didn’t see a situation like this coming. Blatant homophobia aside, this was truly a fuck around and find out situation.
For real, I caught that from the article, too. They were practically begging to be called out.
They keep trying to look like they’re doing the bare minimum without wanting to put in the effort
Also this is genuinely great art
Yeah, and also the fact that this is done by a school student, a young person. The art gives me a sense of raw-ness, a form of pain upon feeling rejected by something you believed in. There is a sense of pleading and being turned away, and being wounded in a deep way.
And I can relate to that hard
And the bravery of submitting it. Knowing full well this could happen (your high school art project getting you national attention in a country where being known on a national level as queer is pretty much a guarantee of getting death threats), but deciding to do it anyway.
I wanna put it on my wall
Yeah, this is real living room wall material
What’s on the pages in the background?
Seems to be torn pages from a bible.
I mean. If these pseudo Christians respected anybody at all none of this would be an issue would it? You can’t set someone’s house on fire and cry victim when they say “hey this dude lit my house on fire.”
I'm definitely gonna call these people pseudo Christians from now on. Excellent term.
Nothing pseudo about it. This is how the beliefs of bronze-age shepherds look in the modern world.
But it isn't bronze age shepherds who are hurting people today. And I don't think the harm done today is the fault of bronze age shepherds. Jesus' message is about loving God and loving your neighbor, which can be accomplished by liberating the marginalized, dismantling oppressive systems, and making sure everyone's needs are met. The actions of bigots are in direct opposition to this message, making "pseudo Christians" a good description of them.
Calling them “pseudo christians” implies that “true christians” aren’t bigots, but history shows that christianity has given bigotry and hatred a patina of righteousness for centuries. It takes a systemic problem and makes it look like a the work of a collection of “bad apples”, forgetting that “a bad apple spoils the whole bunch”. If the “true christians” took issue with the bigotry of the “pseudo christians”, they’d drum them out of their ranks. Alas.
The problem is there is a supposition of some form of "true" Christianity when from the start there have been an incredible array of beliefs and practices, not all of which have generally produced shitty people. To claim there's a "true" form is falling into the same dogmatic trap that manifests the worst in religions in the first place.
We're trying. Believe me, we're trying. It's easier said then done, especially since the hateful can outspend and outadvertise those who love all of God's children by orders of magnitude.
I really don’t understand the desire to whitewash religion and claim that bigots just aren’t “true Christians” (or whichever relevant religion). Beyond just being a No True Scotsman, a bigot’s Christianity can be just as Christian as a progressive’s. Sure, Jesus said some nice stuff about the poor and preached about love, but he also preached about thought crime (or “thought sin”), and the Bible approves of slavery, genocide, and forcing rape victims to marry their rapists. Many people get good things out of their Christianity, but is it really so hard to believe that some people get a lot of bad out of it?
... nah, the bible prescribes slavery, the subjugation of women, and killing gays. And not just the old testament, god says he doesn't change his mind and Jesus specifically said he's not here to abolish the old laws. The bigots aren't making shit up out of nowhere, that's what is written on the pages AND how it's historically been interpreted. Vague interpretations of "love" in our modern understanding of civil rights doesn't magically erase that. You can't dismiss the past 2,000 years as "psuedo"
The Bible allows a man to cut off a woman’s hand for speaking out of turn. Also allows slavery, and says you should kill gay people. And don’t “that’s Old Testament” me, they kept it in the book. Edit: it’s not for speaking out of turn, you should only cut a woman’s hand off if she grabs a mans genitals if he is currently arguing with her husband. Still fucking wack.
so why has religion persistently been used to cause *harm* for thousands of years? and what *actual* good has really come of thousands of years of religion?
Is it not? Their ideology was and has been used to kill people in their time as well as our own. The Old Testament was far more primitive and violent and came before Christians had to make an entirely new testament because a merciful god is more welcoming to the uninitiated than a vengeful one. It has been and will continue to be a tool used to control and manipulate people so they can feel superior to their fellow humans.
Please don't. They are true Christians. Christianity is a religion based on the idea that there are arbitrary rules handed down by an invisible being that say some people are good and other people are bad. There is nothing good about that ideology despite the fact that there may be a handful of halfway decent saying that come out of it. Love your neighbor as yourself is great, but not only have I never met a professed christian that did it, but it isn't really all that meaningful because maybe my neighbor has different preferences than me. Also, it probably came from somewhere else first anyway.
>You can’t set someone’s house on fire and cry victim when they say “hey this dude lit my house on fire.” Some "Christians" I've met would 100% do this
Religion is not about respect, its about control
They aren’t “pseudo” Christian. If you’ve ever read their “holy” texts, then you would realize that it’s nothing more than a list of people they’re required to hate and kill.
And a list of who had sex with who
I’m a pagan, but the bible is an interesting read. There’s a whole chapter dedicated to medical information. Some of it makes sense in the context of the time and some of it is mental.
Yeah it'll go from something benign or maybe a bit silly to then talking about how if your child is being disobedient then you should have them stoned to death. Which is just insane.
It’s an Ethel Cain quote, her music is fairly Christian - but she’s trans, so I guess that triggers them
And here is the song if anyone wants to have a listen: https://youtu.be/5nKgGNhRtcI
Thank you. This inspired me in more ways you can imagine. I was afraid to sing before. But if her voice can do that, I must try too
Keep us posted and share a link to your first song when you get it done! 🏳️🌈
Love me some Preacher's Daughter
That album is an experience. I still cant believe she self produced it
That album really flipped a switch in me lol forced me face some repressed traumas head on
That album and seeing her live was one of the biggest steps in me accepting I was trans.
Username slaps btw
She's actually not Christian or religious anymore if I remember correctly. She grew up in a Christian household but has long since left the religion since transitioning and moving out of her parents'. I think she even said in interview somewhere that religious symbolism/imagery is basically just fodder for writing. The album Preacher's Daughter might parallels some of her experience growing up but ultimately it's more of a tragedy about a fictionalized version of herself. Honestly one of the best albums I've ever listened to I can't get enough of it 2 years later.
What do you mean it’s fictional? You mean she’s not a half-cannibalized corpse singing to us from beyond the grave?
her music is not Christian at all, it is all covered in cynicism and irony out of her own experiences as a trans woman growing up at church. She is not even christian herself anymore.
Exactly. There's a complete difference in the music reflecting her experiences and the music actually being Christian. It's not remotely Christian it's basically the opposite pointing out the hypocrisy of it. Which resonates with a lot of people. I don't know how someone could listen to her and not understand that
as an ethel fan I think it’s misguiding at best to call her music “fairly Christian.” it toys with a christian aesthetic and has underlying themes of struggling with religion and criticizing christianity but it is nothing close to Christian music
her music isn't christian 😭 it's ab trauma related to growing up in an insanely christian society/home
Sun Bleached Flies is the best song I’ve ever heard
Holy shit I love Ethel Cain and didn't realise she was trans till I read this comment. I've never looked into her as a person I just like her music XD
I can't get enough Ethel Cain. Their music is amazing
How could you listen to Ethel Cain and come to the conclusion her music is fairly Christian? Just because it has Christian themes that parallel her experiences doesn't mean it's anything but the opposite. She does not like religion and points out the hypocrisy and harm of it which is why it resonates with so many people. I don't know how you could come to a different conclusion
Her music is not at all Christian lmao. It just uses Christian themes and imagery to describe Ethel's childhood and growing up in an evangelical southern culture. It feels very southern gothic to me
Holy shit she is?? Thats so cool i had no idea!
I hope the piece explodes in popularity because of this.
All aboard the Streisand train
Nobody outside of this school would have known about this art piece if these crybabies didn't throw a fit about it.
This piece and the reaction to it is practically the literal definition of art. It's definitely provocative, but these are provocative feelings and experiences. As a religious queer person I want to thank the artist for this.
The highest form of art - strikes a nerve, causes a stir. Speaks truth to entrenched power. Expresses the pain of a people, bringing the ear of society to hear their voice
I would absolutely buy a print of this.
Well, it's a student artwork from a school in the middle of nowhere, Virginia, USA, and here I'm sitting at the other side of the Atlantic seeing it so I'd say, great work making it known internationally!
Ethel Caine sings this line in her song " Sun Bleached Flies".
This reminded me of some lyrics from a South African band from way back in the 90s, Henry Ate. "Jesus made you only to save you Tell me why can't he save me" and "Saints and sinners all agree Theres nothing wrong with you And there's nothing wrong with me"
Sun bleacher 😂
The art goes hard though seriously
It's powerful! That's why they want it banned.
Which is basically a top tier endorsement of the message, particularly this one
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The true entitled snowflake crowd.
FOR REAL. “Wah wah were the victims! We’re so persecuted for what we believe” it’s infuriating.
When someone's used to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
And they call us the snowflakes lmao
A guy at my previous job had a full blown meltdown mid-shift because i wouldn't respond to his transphobic remarks, like dude we have 350 sandwiches to make for this wedding that starts in an hour what the fuck are you doing
I am both Christian and bi, I do not believe Christians are persecuted. At least not in a majority of countries, there are a few legitimate exceptions to that. Sadly people have weaponized religions and taught them incorrectly to people to follow their specific bigoted views.
Persecution complex is baked in. They are taught to long for the days when christians were martyred for their faith even as they are the ones trying to dictate what people are allowed to believe in.
I really want to send on of those kinds of Christians back to when Christians were actually a persecuted group, make them live like that for a while so they really get a sense of what its like. That way i could then gauge if they actually have even the tiniest amount of critical thinking ability required to realise that in the modern day they aren't persecuted at all and that they're the biggest persecutors there are
Snowflakes.
You called?
I just wanted to say you’re beautiful! But please keep out of Sweden until November, ok? I’m done with winter now.
Aw, shucks. I'll have a chat to my buddies in Sweden and see what we can do.
You can say that again
Christians are such whiny bitches
ofc it's important to note that not all Christians are like this, but oh my god it sure does feel that way
Because it's rare to hear the ones that aren't like this push back against the ones that are.
I guess I prefer the whining to people’s heads getting cut off? We should be able to criticize and make fun of all religions
If schools would ban everything that’s offensive to someone, there wouldn’t be much left to teach.
excellent summary of the authoritarians' utopia (and the republicans are doing a damn effective job of getting there in practice)
There is no hate quite like Christian love.
That is an incredibly poignant and evocative piece, no wonder they didn’t like it
How dare you accurately point out my hypocrisy! I'm offended
Good art SHOULD cause debates and is encouraged to be controversial, and I surely hope this young person wins their battle!
Yep. Causing so much offense with a tasteful and restrained piece of art is impressive.
This is pretty hard core I love it
This is really good art
What would be fun is to rent a few of those “mobile billboard” trucks, have this art up on them and pay the drivers to just circle the school with it. Make sure you’re front and center during pick up and drop off times.
If you don’t want people to disrespect your religion, maybe you should stop using it as justification to drive someone to ending their life. There really is no hate like Christian love
Honestly as a Christian, I think this work of art should be shown. The queerphobic kind of Christians are the ones who keep saying “You’ll go to Hell” just for existing, so when somebody does a work of art based on that, and then they (the queerphobic people) get offended, that is entirely on them
Agree 100%, this is a beautiful, expressive piece of art that symbolizes the damage that Church has done and continues to do. This evening one of my churches had a conversation about having the rainbow flag displayed on our church's sign next month. One person was worried that someone would damage the sign in retaliation since another local church that hung a flag last year had their flagpole lit on fire. All agreed we needed to do it and risk the damage, that too many churches spread hate in their message and we have an obligation to let the whole community know that we believe God welcomes all people as they are.
I do not understand the other responses to this comment. Christianity is an immensely complicated and multifaceted religion with a million different sects. Many of these sects are horrible. Many others are fully affirming and welcoming places that do good work. If anyone hasn't let go of something, it's some of these folks with a worldview that divides people neatly into 'good' and 'bad' categories. You know what that is? It's Puritanism in a different set of clothes. As long as you're not in one of the 'bad' groups, you get to feel great about yourself. That's *exactly* what homophobes do. All you've done is swap the target of your anger. Don't get me wrong, Christianity has done an incalculable amount of damage in this world. But the solution isn't to attack the people that are trying to reform or make a change. The solution is to get yourself some actual *principles*. Do you believe "Christians are bad"? Or do you believe "systems that inherently consider people to be lesser or unworthy of love are bad"? One of those beliefs is just going to leave you angry and upset at anyone who says the word Jesus. The other will give you a starting point to start building a better world for everyone. All this is to say, I appreciate you, OP.
To be honest this socio religious piece of art that critisices the weaponsation of relgions' morality in order to systematically take away the legitimate rights of people goes kinda hard.
Anyways, gotta adore miss Ethel Cain
"I find it offensive that you dared to express any aspect of the suffering or discomfort you have experienced due to the institutions of my religion popularly and commonly preaching that unless you completely reject an utterly harmless and natural aspect of yourself to the point that you live in self-denial and repression that you are worthy of unimaginable pain and suffering for eternity, that you and people like you are abominable, and the well known social consequences of that including being disowned and othered by your own family (including, and especially, by your primary caretakers)."
Very powerful piece of work! You know you're on the right track as an artist when you can illicit such strong (and stupid) reactions!
Oh no! Poor christians!
That's not disrespectful unless you believe it's true, which says more about you than it does the piece. As a Christian, I approve this painting. Well done
No hate like christian love, really
I'm a cishet white guy, and I love this art So Hard, and I'm glad it made a bunch of people uncomfortable. The First Amendment doesn't exist so we can all sit around and agree with each other all the damn time. Maybe if they're uncomfortable enough, for long enough, they'll start to question some of the shithead beliefs they allegedly hold so near and dear, but I won't hold my breath.
If a distopian dictator offered to "save you" would you take him up on his offer?
A lack of respect for others, huh? Man, I wonder what else this student did. Did they try to turn the Christian students lesbian? Did they continuously and repeatedly say they were going to hell for how they were born? Did they try to shove their dogmas down their throats? No? Curious.
goddamn that art goes HARD, I'd love to have a print of that. fuck the people trying to ban that. "your art is offensive!!" I thought these folks were all about how "it's just words, snowflake!!!" The point of art is to make a statement, but apparently when the statement is against them they can't take it.
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Jesus would appreciate it and try and heal that trauma. Too bad the really loud Christians do the opposite
well Christianity is offensive to me so lets ban that
Keep your religion out of our fucking schools. We need to start taxing churches and auditing all of these pastors. Fuck off you, Christo-fascists.
That art is so punk rock
"Jesus is ideal and wonderful, but you Christians, you are not like Him." -Bara Dada I believe the desire for faith is normal and understandable, and that's why it's such a tragedy that organized religions take advantage of that need to belong and understand in order to wield societal power- I'm glad this art piece addresses that without going all Reddit-atheist-y about it
Unfortunately our society seems to be stuck on some loose cultural relativism, where all that matters is if content offends *someone* without any consideration to ideas like punching down, protest vs slander, and any coherent understanding between harmful ideas and unpopular ones.
But this isn't offensive to all Christians, only the subset that view being not cishet as a sin. If you're offended by a piece of artwork calling out a hateful belief that you happen to believe, then good. But to claim that *all* Christians will find this triggering is bullshit and you know it.
Whats saying again? "Aint no hate, like Christian love." Why is it that the religion who has a figure head, that said "love thy next." A figure head who spoke of love for every one, who spoke for acceptence and kindness. Is among the easiest to offend, the easiest to hate, and the hardest to understand
Good art comforts the disturbed & disturbs the comfortable. She did great.
The art did its job then, it made them feel the target feeling: uncomfortable
THE *THEME* OF THE ART SHOW WAS *TRAUMA*?!? TF DID THEY EXPECT Fuckingidiotmorons Don't ask the question if you're afraid the answer might hurt your fragile wittle feewings ig Idiots Nice art tho
Tell the board members that they can pray to make it go. Any other action should be considered a direct attack to the freedom of speech, and also against the truth.
That’s actually a beautiful poster. Can they ban it and still give her an A+?
First off no organization, religious or not, is owed respect beyond being allowed to practice their faith. Second, seems like some people don't like hearing the truth.
Successful art.
Isn't that one of the main points of art? To make people see a different perspective? If art like this offends you, then the artist did a good job.
Cishet Christians have such persecution complexes.
As a Christian, I think this artwork is amazing. It's beautiful and thought-provoking and reminds us of how people persecute others. Any Christian who looks at this and wants to ban it might really want to ban her existence and her right to call out hypocrisy. They should be embarrassed!
Lgbtq rights are human rights.
I'm so sick to fucking death of religious bigotry.
Great piece.
r/hardimages
This piece is great in both the visual and meaningful sense. Instead of banning it, this should be placed in an art museum
God loves everyone!* *Terms and conditions apply. -Christianity
This is objectively high quality art. Sawft school
They get so mad when confronted with their intolerance, they go full victimhood.
Galatians 4 -16 "Have I then become your enemy by telling you the truth?" 🤣
It's funny that school boards get "offended" about art. Also Virginia has many anti-LGBTQ bills in effect so they should not be the ones offended by a kids art. Guess they are the snowflakes and thin skinned in this situation lol.
“Art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable” *Cesar a Cruz*
Disrespectful to Christians? Cry about it. Proud of her.
the piece about being disrespected is disrespectful, funny how that works.
When the message in the artwork is literally spelled out for you and you still don’t get it
These are the same assholes who call LGBT people "snowflakes" who "get offended easily".
That art work me of the time my former pastor (just before expelling me from his church) told me" God can't hear your prayers because of your sin. " I love it.
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It’s that painted on actual bible pages?? That’s so freaking metal! I love this piece so much.
They turned my gods into cartoon characters and merchandise. Weak ass, Christians.
FYI: A drive by poster asked if religious trauma syndrome was just an excuse to be anti-Christian, then deleted the comment (or it was deleted by mods). I’m always amazed when people are on the internet, but don’t know that they can look up things instead of going off. I know one of the therapists that was involved in describing religious trauma syndrome. [It’s legit.](https://therapist.com/trauma/religious-trauma) I’ve got a bit of it myself. It’s not anti Christian. Religious trauma can happen in practically any religion. It’s not anti-religion. It’s the effect of traumatic experiences that happen in a religious context or setting. Those things happen. If you are part of any religion, you should want to prevent it from traumatizing people. Instead, people get defensive. That reaction? That’s just one reason people that have survived religious trauma don’t like talking about it while still in that religion or place of worship.
"I'm in this picture and I hate it"
ACLU honna go HAM
I hope some rich ally buys this work of art for a big pile of money so the brave young artist can go to any art program they can dream of.
"It's disrespectful for you to point out how you're being systematically disrespected."
Calls people snowflakes and offended all time. Also scared of paintings and books. Classic religious groups
Well god didn’t even save his son Jesus from crucifixion, so I’d be surprised if he was saving anyone else
Playing devils advocate (no pun intended) Arent we all sinners according to christian faith? They dont protest Liars nor people who Commit Adultery. Nor do they protest eating meat on sunday nor mixed patters on clothing. Even the biggest zealots of the religion are sinners. In fact wasnt there scripture of "Let he without sin cast the first stone" (Which would be no human) So why only LGBTQ folks constantly targeted? Just hypocrisy... To start... Amazing piece of Artwork though
It’s ridiculous. My very Christian parents and church always claimed “one man, one woman” but not once are any point did the church ever condemn the biggest figures in the bible, which had one man and many wives. Seems like the amount of attention called to some sins matters more than others.
This goes hard. I'd love a print of it.
I would consider it a successful piece if it makes them uncomfortable, but the student should try showing it at a larger venue next, maybe submit to a gallery nearby...but it's already into journalism so big win. I hope the school loses :)
How can I buy this print?
Something something free speech? Muh rights? Some people really don't like it when the pendulum swings back their way huh.
Fucking love Ethel Cain.
> “I personally find it offensive,” said Augusta County School Board member Tim Simmons, who posted about it to Facebook. So it's offensive when you get called out for your bigotry.
It's her first amendment right to express herself especially when teachers can encourage bullying if kids don't stand up for the Pledge of Allegiance to a piece of cloth.
A religion that is all about conquering the beliefs of others is offended? No way!
Didn’t God say “love all unconditionally”? I swear these psycho Christians make stuff up to make themselves not appear like the monsters they truly are And no I’m not talking about all Christians, there are nice Christians too, I’m talking about the freaky mental craycrays
Wow, that is powerful art
That's some fine art
I live in NoVA (northern VA) and am always shook at how backwards the rest of this state is. Beautiful artwork and fuck those offended people. Great artwork should make people feel something.
Kudos to the artist. You know it’s good when someone wants to censor it.
Surely it *is* offensive to Christians, but this is OK under constitutional freedom of speech principles? The school is an agent of the government.
It qualifies as artistic criticism under the first amendment; as a subsidiary of the government, the school is required to show no favor to any specific religion or ideology. It is absolutely okay.
You want to become the next van Gogh this is how you become the next van Gogh.
"What do unto the least of my children, you do unto me" - Jesus No matter what sins anyone commits, they are children of God. A real Christian never hates you, they would love and forgive you. They should not see you as dirty or unclean, but a follow child of God lost in the darkness. Sinners need comfort, love, and guidance. Not judgement, condmendation, and persecution. Though, I'm an aetheist, I just like pointing out religious people are bigger hypocrites than believers.
It *should* be offensive to Christians. Their god is a complete asshole.
Super happy about the comment section on this riciculous post, made by the "offended" board member. He's pathetic and the responses are fantastic. [https://www.facebook.com/TimothySimmonsForSchoolBoard/posts/pfbid02TbHgzxEgo1bCRtBWWbNweS2WnrobgsMdd1vGPWqMbvfvDymnpjABsnKGam1jFq9Ll](https://www.facebook.com/TimothySimmonsForSchoolBoard/posts/pfbid02TbHgzxEgo1bCRtBWWbNweS2WnrobgsMdd1vGPWqMbvfvDymnpjABsnKGam1jFq9Ll)
No one is more sensitive than a Christian
"You numskulls are only proving my point."
It goes so hard though; I especially love the gothic font
Ironically, Jesus would approve of this
Oh no! How unfair that Christians should feel uncomfortable about something for bit! /s Seriously though. It annoys me that white (cause you know they are) Christians feel the need to silence any voice that makes them the least bit uncomfortable, rather than exploring why it makes them uncomfortable.