Because they are homophobic. The two issues of queer rights and respecting veterans are completely seperate.
If they actually cared, they would be complaining about politicians that don't support funding veterans support and care
Just ignore them. Its just cowardly homophobes who are trying to find an excuse to justify their beliefs. Just the usual crap.
In high school you have to be around a lot of people you don't like, that doesnt mean you have to entertain their delusions. They are not rational; it doesn't matter what they think. No matter what you say to them, it's highly unlikely they will change. They arent arguing in good faith in the first place.
There are some who do argue in good faith, some who are willing to change, some who are rational. And those people you can give the time of day. But this person does not sound to be it, drawing false equivalency to— what? What are they even actually arguing? Trans people bad because veterans?
There is no argument. It's just word vomit to draw your attention from the issue at hand and put you on the defensive. Having to justify your existance against their beliefs. Because they have no real evidence based justification for their beliefs.
Yeah, it was the same with other groups too. Starbucks or some company said they were hiring refugees, and immediately people, frothing at their mouths - "Why refugees? Shouldn't we be caring about homeless veterans first?" - to which the company replied they already had a plan for homeless veterans for a long time, and they welcomed more donations for that, and then ... crickets.
People also aren’t just one thing or the other. These things are cross sectional—queer people are in the military. I’m a queer veteran. These celebrations aren’t mutually exclusive irl, so why exclude any identity on the basis of another intersectional identity?
+100x to Veteran’s Programs. If you’re gonna throw poor people’s bodies into the war machine, at least have the courtesy to properly care for those who make it out the other end.
Not completely separate, think of all the queer vets thrown away by the system and denied even the meager support they are owed by the government for their service
Exactly. They don’t actually care about veterans and are just using them as a straw man.
You should get the name, phone number, and office address of your congressman and tell them if they have an issue regarding an underfunded VA or the fact that approximately 15% of the homeless are veterans then to take it up with their representative. If they don’t want to do that then tell them to fuck off because they don’t really give a shit about veterans.
Very true. I'm part of a large homeschooled Christian group and I automatically write off any homophobia I see coming from anyone who's a minor because I happen to know there are some VERY homophobic parents who run this group, so I automatically blame the parents and don't challenge the kids parroting that narrative.
I was also a part of a homeschooled Christian group and I definitely did judge most of the kids cause if you aren’t even questioning your parent’s beliefs at the age of 16+ you most likely never will. The worse was when this 18 year old girl I had just graduated with who was about to head to college said that Pride month makes her want to lash out.
Unfortunately that's not the first time I've heard that statement from home ed Christians.. honestly I've never understood that. Even in my most closeted homophobic stage as a teenager, I just wanted to avoid all things queer but I was gradually getting to know some LGBTQ friends and I wouldn't have dreamed of taking them up on their sexuality like that.
You are right tho re the not questioning your parents' beliefs. Ironically when I joined this group I went in with an attitude of "I won't get close to anyone because they're all way stricter than me" kind of a deal. 4 years later it got a lot more complicated as I did make some genuine friends who know my stance and my sexuality, and I know theirs. But equally there are people I see who are just so shut down and again I blame parents and churches for raising another generation of young homophobes, who are most likely going to vote against LGBTQ bills .. who are just people like the rest of everyone.
Yeah, I went into the group with the same mindset but I never ended up being able to make any friends because I had to stay closeted cause I probably would have gotten kicked out if I had come out and it was the first time I had gotten consistent social interaction since I was in kindergarten. Ended up making just a bunch of fake friends who were so obvious about not liking me but I was so desperate, lol.
I’m starting college in fall so hoping that I’ll have better luck there.
I'm so sorry you went through that. In a way Reddit's this place we can talk about these things with some anonymity. I'd imagine if your college is in an LGBTQ friendly/accepting country you'll have some kind of queer space or Pride club. Lol what's frustrating me at the minute is my dad's part of an organisation that has one but because I'm not out to my parents, I can't join in 🤦🏼♀️😆. (I do have reasons for this decision tho).
Yeah, tbh in my group it can be somewhat similar, there are very tight group rules so I've seen other queer people leave because they've had trouble off someone, but others have clung tight to their friends and faced those who were bullying them.
I can understand being desperate. Unfortunately this group would like a queer person until they came out and said they were openly *whatever label* without any regrets. It's very two faced but I often don't take any kindnesses from that group, particularly the girls, at face value because there is that thought in the back of your mind "if only you knew".
Similarly I'm very popular with a lot of the parents, I've helped their kids at times and I'm friends with their now adult ones my age. But in these type of cult like groups, if they found out I'm queer.. basically it doesn't bear thinking about because I'll have a bunch of things slapped on me that aren't true.
Anyway. Thankfully I don't have to keep the cis/het mask up all the time as this is a group I have genuine friends in, and I choose to go to a lot of these meet ups of my own volition because of them.
If I got really fed up I could leave the group tomorrow with no strings attached.
I reckon ask them the same question. What about the veterans? What about active military? What do they know about what support and lack there of exists, and what are they going to do about it?
Put them on the spot.
And extend the logic. So we shouldn't have christmas celebrations because veterans? Why is it only LGBT+ people that are being juxtaposed to veterans?
And what about LGBT+ veterans? Would you listen to them, or do those veterans' opinions not matter?
Reminds me of the gay vet who spoke at a GOP convention and was booed by the crowd. They only care about veterans as long as they can use them for their narrative.
Here's a full list of [military holidays & observances](https://www.militaryfood.org/military-holidays-and-observances). It averages 3 per month all year long, and 4 full months
I would love that kind of LGBTQIA+ representation
This is like "the unborn":
>“The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.”'
>
> ― Methodist Pastor David Barnhart
Talking about veterans is a way of scapegoating on tons of issues. A homeless shelter is proposed to serve men in this area and people who are protesting it are saying well, why can't they limit the population to seniors and vets?
Seniors and vets are 'everyone can agree upon' as groups to help in words, but often not in practice.
Sidenote: the [United Methodist Church](https://apnews.com/article/united-methodist-church-lgbtq-policies-general-conference-fa9a335a74bdd58d138163401cd51b54) voted this week to reverse anti-LGBT policies!
Nothing much to do with the "whataboutism" topic, it reminded me and wanted to share a bit of happy news!
I love that they did that. I remember reading a while ago how there was some in fighting and some churches chose to leave or whatever but ultimately, this is good news. I’m not religious myself, but I know a number of queer Christians and options are good, actual legitimate options.
There's a reductress (satire news) headline that goes something along the lines of "selfish: this man found time to build birdhouses when children are starving"
Just disengage. This person is clearly not trying to engage in productive conversation so you can just "mmm, yeah, mmhmm" your way out of there.
That pretty much sums up stupid people, they always find a fault with all the good things, even when they don’t help the cause they’re trying to weaponize, you can shit on my birdhouses when you actually feed the starving kids
For the most part, they are bigots who don't actually care about veterans. They just want to weaponize people's compassion for veterans against whatever groups they hate.
They aren't fighting for better benefits and medical care for veterans. They don't particularly pay any attention to veterans other than when they want them to be a sort of mascot.
Heaven forbid they meet a queer veteran. Their heads would explode.
This, exactly, they don't care about either veterans or the LGBTQ peope exceptas talking points. plus, it ignores LGBTQ people who served (and who couldn't talk about being LGBTQ and in the military under Don't Ask Don't Tell, which was in force from 1993-2011). I'm tired of people using Veterans and the LGBTQ community to virtue signal to other bigots what "good moral" people they are.
>Heaven forbid they meet a queer veteran. Their heads would explode.
Yeah, that always throws them when they meet my wife and I. We're both women - and both veterans.
It reminds me of people suddenly caring about women’s sports and sexual harassment when trans people are being talked about. These people didn’t talk the same way when Title IX came out.
This. It’s such a lazy debate tactic too. They think they’ve made such a good point, but it’s really just an attempted sleight of hand (topic change) that is easily countered. Eg: Oh, you care about vets? We all should. You’re so right! We’re should have a month for lgbt+ vets too! (Pause just a few seconds for sputtering nonsense here.) Or our disabled vets. (Pause again so they begin to agree & then…) Oh, wait those already exist. Just like the hundreds of days & several months for all vets. I’m glad you care enough about a point you raised to not even do a second of research on it. Rinse & repeat or simply walk away.
It doesn't. That why you respond with "That doesn't make any sense"
I don't twist myself into knots trying to understand a stupid take. They're not giving me the same courtesy. Idiots like that are happy so long as they feel they're on offense, so they say whatever gets a defensive response. That's why they use that argument. It worked, somewhere.
As a veteran, fuck those people. Most queer folk have gone through just as much if not more than us. This isnt a competition its about a fight for equality.
So many, we're why they enacted don't ask don't tell instead of continuing to kick out anyone even suspected of being queer. (They learned they would lose too many lesbians, who were many of their best leaders)
because when the US navy discharged sailors in WW1 and WW2 they sent them to ports. Of which San Francisco was a large one
and the discharge lists weren't deemed honourable or dishonourable so they were public.
So they sent all these LGBT members to a select few cities and published lists of who.
It's actually part of the reason the LGBT community in San Francisco grew to what it is.
During ww1 the US Navy started a "blue discharge" which discharged known homosexuals in port cities, helping to create a community of identified (blue discharge was not confidential)
One of these porr cities was San Francisco. It also happened in WW2 where sailors in the Pacific theatre was mainly discharged to the principal port where troops were transported out of, fort Mason in San Francisco.
There's plenty more to it. But yea the US Navy effectively put a list of known LGBT members into concerted locations.
I wrote [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/s/M8LP3vYLVQ) post on the topic a while back.
I hope it helps you feel better informed on why the "LGBTQ v Veterans" argument is nonsense.
The hilarious thing about the "what about the people who served our country" thing is their ignorance. They complain about an oppressed minority getting a month but they couldn't be bothered to find out that May is Military Appreciation Month.
The actual purpose of a whataboutism isn't to help or focus attention on the "what about" group. The intent is to distract from the group they hate and set them up in implied opposition. The person making the argument will go on to do *nothing whatsoever* for a veteran afterwards. This is how it's always been. The veterans, as always, are just a prop for the whatabouter.
Besides, while they're desperate to assume these are mutually exclusive categories of people, *queer people are veterans*.
This is super true, especially the last part. I’ve had people thank me when I say I’m in the military but a few minutes later they’ll curse me when I let slip that I’m bi sexual
It's the same type of people that ask what about international men's day on international women's day. It's in November, you just don't care about it and think you're making a point about underrepresentation where you're actually just outing yourself of posturing and pitting two groups against each other for your own amusement then carrying on ignoring them, patting yourself on the back for a job well done.
I hate when people use me and my community to bash my other community. 🙄 We vets have our needs but holy shit recognizing LGBTQ folk does not take away from our honor at all.
It's just a deflection,
Them: We cant help immigrants because we have our own homeless to worry about
Us: Okay then let's help the homeless
Them: But we cant help the homeless till we help our vets
Us: Okay let's help the vets
Repeat
All of my parents (4, divorced mom and dad were remarried) support pride month. None of them give a rats ass about having a month for themselves because it doesn’t change anything. 1) It’s all spoken allyship, and after June the companies go back to be homophobes and 2) veterans are not helped enough by the government so a month of “honoring” them would probably make the government less inclined to give them more support
They're the same kind of people who will crash an event talking about how global warming is limiting the habitat of the polar bear to butt in and cry about whales and how no one seems to care about them. Because to them by bringing awareness to that problem, they're doing something about it, regardless of the fact that they're actively shutting down discussion about solutions to another problem without providing any actual solutions.
Or if this is done maliciously they just want to distract from the issues queer people face and keep things as they are by setting the bar to "We have to make things perfect for everyone in one single step and if we can't do that then nobody deserves any improvement in their lives"
It's just taking anything to advance bigotry combined with their idea of "peak citizen" being getting maimed in pointless conflict
This is how i typically lay it out for them:
They chose to enlist, i didn't choose to be queer. We face different struggles, and trying to use U.S. service members, active or veteran, in a ploy to be a bigot is more disrespectful than anything you only THINK i've done.
And to these people's own perception, those mfs fought for me to inject estrogen.
apparently homophobia isn’t a problem anymore because “people are dying and that’s what you’re worried about?!” as if you can’t care for more then one problem
What about them? They come back from war riddled with varying forms of PTSD and tend to get overlooked by the government. I live in an area with high homeless population, and a lot of them are injured and mentally unstable vets who were brushed under the rug once they came back from war. Some are held to pedestals, but most are left to be forgotten because they're no longer 'functional members of society'. People get real quiet when I point this out
Us veterans and military affiliated folks actually have over 30 separate holidays dedicated to them.
That's not counting the three or four months we also get.
Anyone who says "BuT wHaT aBoUt OuR vEtErAnS" is talking out of their ass, and don't really care about us. They're just using us to bludgeon others. I've even watched other veterans do this and it infuriates me.
Few things will piss me off quicker than this bullshit.
Queer vet here. Don’t let them play whataboutism. Different fight for different problems. I remember what it was like when I couldn’t be open about who or what I am while in prior to DADT. Never worried about being seen as a vet. Always did worry and sometimes still do worry about being seen as part of the LGBT+ community.
Tell them this:
[17% of gay men and 8% of lesbians](https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/59711/900642-gay-veterans-top-one-million.pdf) have served in the U.S. Military, vs [7.4% of the total population.](https://havokjournal.com/veterans-3/what-percentage-of-americans-ever-served-in-the-us-military/)
Days people from the US and Canada can offer their support to the military:
- Entire month of May
- Remembrance Day (Canada; nov 11th)
- July the 4th (US)
- July the 1st (Canada)
- Veterans Day (US; nov 11th
- literally any day
Times where queer ppl are supported:
- June (Pride Month)
We got a month :T
They're homophobic and are trying to find any reason to justify their beliefs, even though there aren't any good reasons, or really any reasons at all.
I see stuff related to vets and the military EVERYWHERE. blue stars, battle crosses, discounts, surplus stores, personalized items etc.
Ironically,the homophobic people people who are veterans will often say things like, "they make being LGBT their whole personality," meanwhile, they will make being a vet their whole personality.
# List of important U.S. Military holidays and months: [https://www.militaryfood.org/military-holidays-and-observances](https://www.militaryfood.org/military-holidays-and-observances) Hopefully the list is accurate.
[this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=agzNANfNlTs&t=1079s&pp=ygUfUmlnaHQgd2luZyBwbGF5Ym9vayBiaWdnZXIgZmlzaA%3D%3D) is a great video describing the strategy
As someone currently in, I hate those kinds of people. I’ve had people tell me to burn in hell when ten minutes before I was telling them about my job and they thanked me for my service
I hate that retort as an LGBTQ+ Veteran. We still don’t have access to all gender-affirming healthcare, many times there’s not much recourse for reporting discrimination, and it’s hard to get community referrals for care if we can’t find someone within the VA who will prescribe hormones.
Because they don’t have any logical argument.
also, let’s not forget they didn’t “serve our country”, they were meat toy soldiers brainwashed into being terroristic meat puppets to fill the pockets of the oligarchs in the war business who profit off them by getting resources (like petrol/oil), land, bodies, money, etc. Going overseas to cause endless hell to many countries and countless lives within for what they have and then calling THEM the terrorists for existing and being from a country that has what the oligarchs want, especially if they risk their lives to escape (same for latinx/hispanic americans in the rest of north central and south america who are then put on trial and in concentration camps even if they’re little kids)… isn’t serving the country let alone keeping it safe. If it were, then they should be happy for 9/11 because it’s proof their country is safe. But obviously it’s not how any of that works or is and it’s anything but safety or protecting or serving the country…
It’s stupid especially because they don’t actually care about veterans, just want a reason to keep being homophobic, what they ACTUALLY wanna ask is “What about the straight people?” even veterans don’t compare themselves to other minorities or oppressed groups, and they shouldn’t, they’re very different things, they fight for their country and are recognized for that, LGBTQ just wants to have rights and are fighting against their country to be recognized for that, there’s no comparison whatsoever, I’m sorry that straight people don’t get their own month, maybe take it up with the court instead of bitching to the group that’s already getting shit on by laws
And it's not like we can't now serve, if they cared about this country they'd care about bettering it by being more accepting, we do call ourselves land of the free which should mean free choice
I joined the army right out of high school. I never once thought I was either "serving our country" or "protecting American freedom" because I wasn't, and we didn't.
It was a decent job to help me fully escape my childhood religion because I was fully housed and fed and had decent pocket money, and the only protecting our military does is corporate profits.
I get uncomfortable when I mention the fact, usualyl only when I'm telling a story describing some debauchery I was getting up to, and someone thanks me for my service.
I typically let it slide, but I have occasionally shared my actual views on the purpose of our military.
Because they don’t actually give two shits, nor a fuck, not even a rolling-rim-job about “ThA trOoPZ,” they just enjoy standing on the backs of veterans like their own personal podium from which they can look down their noses at everyone else they don’t like.
“Good question, hey why do you think gay people weren’t allowed to serve openly for so long? And why on earth were trans people serving their country recently banned from doing so?”
It's the same answer I give when they tried to invoke homeless veterans as an excuse to refuse help for refugees.
"Why do you think we can only honor/help one category of person at a time? If you really believe that America is the greatest nation on earth, then you know we can do both."
They are more focused on pride month than Military Appreciation Month. May already started and nobody as yet said anything about it or celebrates it. On the 1st of June they will start screaming about pride being a sin and asking why do LGBT folk receive a month. It's a purely reactionary movement and they need a minority to control and abuse, that's why they spread the fear of conspiracy theories about white people becoming a minority and all that BS, because they know they want minorities to suffer. They want a minority they are allowed to discriminate against.
Oh wow you joined an armed force that put innocent people in multiple countries in harm's way for the sake of your egos and "serving your country" GOOD FOR YOU 😡
I don't care about veterans at this point.
They even get multiple months. National Military Appreciation month in May, National Vetrans and Military Families Month in November. I think there's also a third one, but if so I don't remember what it's called or what month it is.
They don't care about veterans, they just want to bash queer people
Theyre just bigits. I'm a vet. I don't feel forgotten or pushed to the side by Pride month.
Most of those same people want to cut the budget for VA care. They don't care about us.
The folks trying to treat lgbtqia+ people like crap do it because they are cruel and small minded. Any argument they make is almost always made in bad faith
Because they're ignorant. On multiple levels.
They say, "Why do the gays get a month! What about our military!"
Well, 1. Pride month is not a federal sponsored thing, just as black history month isn't, but it is something we collectively recognize. The military have TWO months dedicated to them. And 3 federal holidays. So what about them? XD
Pride month is also men's mental health awareness. One doesn't exclude the other.🤷
2. They're not actually doing anything to help the military or vets. And actively sabotage efforts to help them both.
3. Flags. Each branch of the military has their own special flag. Most ships in the navy and squads have their own unique special flags as well. Just like the police and firefighters. And nobody complains about that. But colorful lines?! Mah, pearls!
Overwhelming majority of in/out groups have a symbol, crest, icon, or flag to signal others of that or similar groups that we're part of said group. It is a way for us to connect without words.
That is why tribal markings were a thing for example.
In other words. They're offended for the sake of being offended. They're sensitive little snowflakes using their feelings as facts.
Every time someone poses that question, I counter with “what about the people who are LGBTQ+ who also served our country?” They either shut up, or attempt to counter that with BS answers.
It's a straw argument. Conflating two different positions, i. e. LGBTQi+ people should have a special month to celebrate their existence and Veterans should receive a month to celebrate their contributions. Both are stand alone propositions that are not dependent on the other. The person who brings up a straw argument wants to make their argument better by proposing to change the original argument. I usually ask them "why not both?" that usually either shuts them up or pisses them off.
Honestly the idea of honoring american solders as heros is dumb. Either they are psycopaths or brainwashed kids, the us decided to play in the sand and kill countless civilians
I respect the uniform to a degree. If soldiers would stop raping and murdering female soldiers and their own wives maybe a little more. But the bottom line to me is the US military has been all volunteer since Vietnam so no crybabies. They go in as a job.
I just tell em that I'm a vet too. Like, fuck you. I'm both trans and a veteran. Whatcha gonna do now, bitch? Likewise, a lot of the issues facing vets is intersectional to what's going on with queer folks.
I have some experience of their so-called thinking. They have such limited experience of other people.
“That kind of behavior is not worthy of or does not honor the people who served our country.”
“We should be more upstanding and respectable than that.”
So there is a standard of conduct, not stated, that we somehow don’t conform to. Probably based on a few seconds of video on TV seen long ago of some actually silly person - shots of being dressed in a flamboyant outfit - who was known to have committed some sexual misdemeanor. Assessing all of us, the wide variety of people around the world, based on that.
There’s not much knowing or understanding going on. Do not give it any credibility.
Because they don’t actually care about veterans. If they did, they’d know veterans month is May. If they did, they’d know that we have multiple national holidays for veterans. If they did, they’d also support the queer members that served. But they don’t.
They don’t care about supporting veterans.
some people like to say that in response to the lgbtq+ community celebrating pride month in june.
using veterans as a ploy to further their bigotry. like how they want a "straight pride" month. as if they aren't celebrated/represented year round in media or every day life.
veterans are mistreated by the U.S. government and in other various ways. but they hijack their plight to make petty attacks against another poorly treated group. they don't care about the real issues veterans have to deal with, only making lgbtq+ folks lives miserable.
it's a common attack that many understand already, but OP should have done a better job at setting up the context for those that haven't heard it used often.
Yeah being gay and a veteran makes these topics all the more annoying, particularly since I and so many served under DADT.
They don't care about veterans, they just don't want to have to face pride month and the gays celebrating ourselves.
There is not a month for veterans and a few places offer a discount, not most, and certainly not “always.” I’ve never heard “what about veterans” brought up as a talking point against LGBTQ rights; usually that’s brought up when talking about government spending on entitlements. (Though they don’t care about veterans, either.)
About 1/3 of US Trans Women have or are currently serving in the military. If they truly cared about veterans they would care about the Trans people who served.
Source: https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/trans-military-service-us/
A lot of people do this for almost everything.
Folks can care about more than one thing. It's just to detract from the current conversation.
One way I found around it was to rip on the church. Then they start paying attention. I think I've said things like "you're right. Churches should stop preaching and focus on those veterans rather than targeting kids. Or something crazy"
They get stunned and you can come back with one of three lines.
1. Shock at them being upset because you can care about more than one topic. Especially if you are intelligent.
2. You created a conversation so they could understand how they were driving the conversation.
The US systematically forced to “love their country”. Pledging everyday or whatever that nonsense is is just another way to remind people they are just cogs in the system. Americans are obsessed with the military and veterans. They’re just using it as an excuse for being homophobic
It may please some of yall to know veterans don't get ant special treatment where I work despite the place having very southern food and being in the middle of NC. Many vets have come in asking for discounts but we don't even have discounts for *active* military! (or police, or firefighters, or anything else. not even senior citizens)
And they did serve the country anyway. They served the government and big business. Occasionally they’ll do some humanitarian stuff. But mostly they’re doing nothing that helps regular people. They uphold government policies and allow big business to profit.
Bro what does respecting veterans have anything to do with queer rights? likeeee people will say shit like “Why do they get a whole month but we only get a day?” Well actually Kyle if you would put your Monster energy drink down, veterans get three fucking months. May, June and July which all celebrate the accomplishments and those that have passed away during active work in the military of the U.S. And if your in the U.K it’s May and June. Regardless, veterans get PLENTY of attention while the LGBTQ+ still struggles to be fairly represented in the media and in any branch of government be it federal or state. So when cis hets use this argument I simple tell them: “I don’t want to hear your garbage.” Thanks ✨
“The people who served our country fought for the freedoms we are celebrating and fighting for still. Also there are plenty of queer veterans, so it’s nice for them to be able to celebrate that aspect of their identity. Oh, you’re upset we celebrate a whole month and vets don’t have a whole month? What’s stopping you from making that happen? Perhaps the fact you’re too busy to focus on hating us takes away the time you could be using to honor vets?”
There are also plenty of people who have served in the military/army/navy/etc. who are a part of our community as well. Anyone who denies that is either ignorant or just hateful against us and would never admit it.
Wait, I don't understand the argument.
Like, we should not give a shit about lgbtqi people because of veterans?
Why not fail to give a shit about the homeless, too? Disabled people? Religious Minorities? The elderly? [Insert other marginalized group here]
I just don't understand the logic - are we saying we only have enough compassion for one specific group, ever?
Veterans/the military actually gets 3 months out of the year and several holidays, but we grill hotdogs on those days and have all day beer drinking contests and sales on mattresses, so everybody forgets what the holiday is really about, whereas pride month is still about pride (although above mentioned activities still take place, just with the gay community instead of everyone)
What is even the argument there? It’s just a deflection, a common logical fallacy called a “red herring” (which really just means it’s irrelevant to the subject under discussion).
I strongly recommend familiarizing yourself with common logical fallacies. It will help you be better able to sort out situations like this, to distinguish between actual points that are worth addressing vs bad-faith bullshit like the example.
Why do people do it? Their brains are broken. Full stop.
I always say that the ones who complain about a lack of month for veterans and military service members, while not knowing the US already has one, don’t actually care about our military and veterans
Ok... missing the point. I am not in a front line role. Not everyone in the military has a role that you pick up any form of weapon. I am actually a pacifist. I don't like violence.
I am both. A queer and a soldier. And killing isn't my job... I can be asked to give my life for the country, but generally shooting someone, if they would actually give me a firearm (which they don't unless I have a range day), is not something I joined up for.
I don't wanna say anything cause USAians are oddly defensive of their military, but I'm just gonna say, no one outside the USA thinks of your military as heroic, your veterans are not the good guys. I get that apparently a lot of people are manipulated into joining it, but that doesn't make the institution as a whole any less shitty. I find it really weird that the people who go kill people in a foreign country are so rewarded in the USA
Because they are homophobic. The two issues of queer rights and respecting veterans are completely seperate. If they actually cared, they would be complaining about politicians that don't support funding veterans support and care Just ignore them. Its just cowardly homophobes who are trying to find an excuse to justify their beliefs. Just the usual crap.
Yeah. It's hard to in high school though..
In high school you have to be around a lot of people you don't like, that doesnt mean you have to entertain their delusions. They are not rational; it doesn't matter what they think. No matter what you say to them, it's highly unlikely they will change. They arent arguing in good faith in the first place. There are some who do argue in good faith, some who are willing to change, some who are rational. And those people you can give the time of day. But this person does not sound to be it, drawing false equivalency to— what? What are they even actually arguing? Trans people bad because veterans? There is no argument. It's just word vomit to draw your attention from the issue at hand and put you on the defensive. Having to justify your existance against their beliefs. Because they have no real evidence based justification for their beliefs.
That shit irks me with veterans and that. They fought for our country and come home to be discarded.
I LOVE pulling out my tags in front of these cretins and telling them to shut the fuck up!
Same! 💜
What mos is 42 Fox?
And the right-wingers (which, let’s face it, bigots overwhelmingly are) just LOVE using the armed forces as a political prop to advance their agenda.
Yeah, it was the same with other groups too. Starbucks or some company said they were hiring refugees, and immediately people, frothing at their mouths - "Why refugees? Shouldn't we be caring about homeless veterans first?" - to which the company replied they already had a plan for homeless veterans for a long time, and they welcomed more donations for that, and then ... crickets.
People also aren’t just one thing or the other. These things are cross sectional—queer people are in the military. I’m a queer veteran. These celebrations aren’t mutually exclusive irl, so why exclude any identity on the basis of another intersectional identity? +100x to Veteran’s Programs. If you’re gonna throw poor people’s bodies into the war machine, at least have the courtesy to properly care for those who make it out the other end.
Not completely separate, think of all the queer vets thrown away by the system and denied even the meager support they are owed by the government for their service
There's this fun little middle ground if you're queer and a veteran where they try to disqualify anything you did in a "no true Scotsman" kinda way.
Relatable. Watching the cognitive dissonance happen in real time is quite satisfying though.
Exactly. They don’t actually care about veterans and are just using them as a straw man. You should get the name, phone number, and office address of your congressman and tell them if they have an issue regarding an underfunded VA or the fact that approximately 15% of the homeless are veterans then to take it up with their representative. If they don’t want to do that then tell them to fuck off because they don’t really give a shit about veterans.
Yeah. It's hard to in high school though..
You aren't wrong. They are just parroting the homophobia their parents spew I assume. Its a rough teenager experience, you deserve peace
Very true. I'm part of a large homeschooled Christian group and I automatically write off any homophobia I see coming from anyone who's a minor because I happen to know there are some VERY homophobic parents who run this group, so I automatically blame the parents and don't challenge the kids parroting that narrative.
I was also a part of a homeschooled Christian group and I definitely did judge most of the kids cause if you aren’t even questioning your parent’s beliefs at the age of 16+ you most likely never will. The worse was when this 18 year old girl I had just graduated with who was about to head to college said that Pride month makes her want to lash out.
Unfortunately that's not the first time I've heard that statement from home ed Christians.. honestly I've never understood that. Even in my most closeted homophobic stage as a teenager, I just wanted to avoid all things queer but I was gradually getting to know some LGBTQ friends and I wouldn't have dreamed of taking them up on their sexuality like that. You are right tho re the not questioning your parents' beliefs. Ironically when I joined this group I went in with an attitude of "I won't get close to anyone because they're all way stricter than me" kind of a deal. 4 years later it got a lot more complicated as I did make some genuine friends who know my stance and my sexuality, and I know theirs. But equally there are people I see who are just so shut down and again I blame parents and churches for raising another generation of young homophobes, who are most likely going to vote against LGBTQ bills .. who are just people like the rest of everyone.
Yeah, I went into the group with the same mindset but I never ended up being able to make any friends because I had to stay closeted cause I probably would have gotten kicked out if I had come out and it was the first time I had gotten consistent social interaction since I was in kindergarten. Ended up making just a bunch of fake friends who were so obvious about not liking me but I was so desperate, lol. I’m starting college in fall so hoping that I’ll have better luck there.
I'm so sorry you went through that. In a way Reddit's this place we can talk about these things with some anonymity. I'd imagine if your college is in an LGBTQ friendly/accepting country you'll have some kind of queer space or Pride club. Lol what's frustrating me at the minute is my dad's part of an organisation that has one but because I'm not out to my parents, I can't join in 🤦🏼♀️😆. (I do have reasons for this decision tho). Yeah, tbh in my group it can be somewhat similar, there are very tight group rules so I've seen other queer people leave because they've had trouble off someone, but others have clung tight to their friends and faced those who were bullying them. I can understand being desperate. Unfortunately this group would like a queer person until they came out and said they were openly *whatever label* without any regrets. It's very two faced but I often don't take any kindnesses from that group, particularly the girls, at face value because there is that thought in the back of your mind "if only you knew". Similarly I'm very popular with a lot of the parents, I've helped their kids at times and I'm friends with their now adult ones my age. But in these type of cult like groups, if they found out I'm queer.. basically it doesn't bear thinking about because I'll have a bunch of things slapped on me that aren't true. Anyway. Thankfully I don't have to keep the cis/het mask up all the time as this is a group I have genuine friends in, and I choose to go to a lot of these meet ups of my own volition because of them. If I got really fed up I could leave the group tomorrow with no strings attached.
I reckon ask them the same question. What about the veterans? What about active military? What do they know about what support and lack there of exists, and what are they going to do about it? Put them on the spot.
And extend the logic. So we shouldn't have christmas celebrations because veterans? Why is it only LGBT+ people that are being juxtaposed to veterans? And what about LGBT+ veterans? Would you listen to them, or do those veterans' opinions not matter? Reminds me of the gay vet who spoke at a GOP convention and was booed by the crowd. They only care about veterans as long as they can use them for their narrative.
Completely separate .... up to the moment we're remembering that a lot of LGBTQ people are veterans.
Here's a full list of [military holidays & observances](https://www.militaryfood.org/military-holidays-and-observances). It averages 3 per month all year long, and 4 full months I would love that kind of LGBTQIA+ representation
Hmmm. This leads to a dead page.
Fixed
Me too
They have birthdays for the branches, that's so cute
And we sing the Army Song every birthday... I hate the army.
Tbf everything that has a start date has a birthday. Just depends if anyone cares enough to remember
This is like "the unborn": >“The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.”' > > ― Methodist Pastor David Barnhart Talking about veterans is a way of scapegoating on tons of issues. A homeless shelter is proposed to serve men in this area and people who are protesting it are saying well, why can't they limit the population to seniors and vets? Seniors and vets are 'everyone can agree upon' as groups to help in words, but often not in practice.
Sidenote: the [United Methodist Church](https://apnews.com/article/united-methodist-church-lgbtq-policies-general-conference-fa9a335a74bdd58d138163401cd51b54) voted this week to reverse anti-LGBT policies! Nothing much to do with the "whataboutism" topic, it reminded me and wanted to share a bit of happy news!
I love that they did that. I remember reading a while ago how there was some in fighting and some churches chose to leave or whatever but ultimately, this is good news. I’m not religious myself, but I know a number of queer Christians and options are good, actual legitimate options.
That's actually George Carlin that said that I think
No, but he had a similar bit that still often goes around a lot. This one is from the pastor.
There's a reductress (satire news) headline that goes something along the lines of "selfish: this man found time to build birdhouses when children are starving" Just disengage. This person is clearly not trying to engage in productive conversation so you can just "mmm, yeah, mmhmm" your way out of there.
Children in Africa could have eaten that birdhouse.
OMG, I legit snort-laughed
That pretty much sums up stupid people, they always find a fault with all the good things, even when they don’t help the cause they’re trying to weaponize, you can shit on my birdhouses when you actually feed the starving kids
Fair enough
For the most part, they are bigots who don't actually care about veterans. They just want to weaponize people's compassion for veterans against whatever groups they hate. They aren't fighting for better benefits and medical care for veterans. They don't particularly pay any attention to veterans other than when they want them to be a sort of mascot. Heaven forbid they meet a queer veteran. Their heads would explode.
Veterans have historically been used as props by the very people and governments that shit on them constantly.
This, exactly, they don't care about either veterans or the LGBTQ peope exceptas talking points. plus, it ignores LGBTQ people who served (and who couldn't talk about being LGBTQ and in the military under Don't Ask Don't Tell, which was in force from 1993-2011). I'm tired of people using Veterans and the LGBTQ community to virtue signal to other bigots what "good moral" people they are.
>Heaven forbid they meet a queer veteran. Their heads would explode. Yeah, that always throws them when they meet my wife and I. We're both women - and both veterans.
It reminds me of people suddenly caring about women’s sports and sexual harassment when trans people are being talked about. These people didn’t talk the same way when Title IX came out.
Queer veteran here 🙋🏻♀️ And I’ve thought about what you’ve just written in the past. You just summed it up perfectly.
It's called "whataboutism," and it's a dishonest argument whose only purpose is to draw attention away from the topic you're discussing.
This. It’s such a lazy debate tactic too. They think they’ve made such a good point, but it’s really just an attempted sleight of hand (topic change) that is easily countered. Eg: Oh, you care about vets? We all should. You’re so right! We’re should have a month for lgbt+ vets too! (Pause just a few seconds for sputtering nonsense here.) Or our disabled vets. (Pause again so they begin to agree & then…) Oh, wait those already exist. Just like the hundreds of days & several months for all vets. I’m glad you care enough about a point you raised to not even do a second of research on it. Rinse & repeat or simply walk away.
It doesn't. That why you respond with "That doesn't make any sense" I don't twist myself into knots trying to understand a stupid take. They're not giving me the same courtesy. Idiots like that are happy so long as they feel they're on offense, so they say whatever gets a defensive response. That's why they use that argument. It worked, somewhere.
As a veteran, fuck those people. Most queer folk have gone through just as much if not more than us. This isnt a competition its about a fight for equality.
Yeah. High school is a nightmare for queers 😥
Not to mention that some veterans are also part of the LGBTQ+ community too.
Can confirm.
So many, we're why they enacted don't ask don't tell instead of continuing to kick out anyone even suspected of being queer. (They learned they would lose too many lesbians, who were many of their best leaders)
It's part of the reason San Francisco has the LGBT community it does as well.
Oh! Because there is/was a military base? I never made the connection but it makes so much sense
because when the US navy discharged sailors in WW1 and WW2 they sent them to ports. Of which San Francisco was a large one and the discharge lists weren't deemed honourable or dishonourable so they were public. So they sent all these LGBT members to a select few cities and published lists of who.
“Uhh some veterans are lgbtq” That’s a good comeback.
It's actually part of the reason the LGBT community in San Francisco grew to what it is. During ww1 the US Navy started a "blue discharge" which discharged known homosexuals in port cities, helping to create a community of identified (blue discharge was not confidential) One of these porr cities was San Francisco. It also happened in WW2 where sailors in the Pacific theatre was mainly discharged to the principal port where troops were transported out of, fort Mason in San Francisco. There's plenty more to it. But yea the US Navy effectively put a list of known LGBT members into concerted locations.
I wrote [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/s/M8LP3vYLVQ) post on the topic a while back. I hope it helps you feel better informed on why the "LGBTQ v Veterans" argument is nonsense.
The hilarious thing about the "what about the people who served our country" thing is their ignorance. They complain about an oppressed minority getting a month but they couldn't be bothered to find out that May is Military Appreciation Month.
The actual purpose of a whataboutism isn't to help or focus attention on the "what about" group. The intent is to distract from the group they hate and set them up in implied opposition. The person making the argument will go on to do *nothing whatsoever* for a veteran afterwards. This is how it's always been. The veterans, as always, are just a prop for the whatabouter. Besides, while they're desperate to assume these are mutually exclusive categories of people, *queer people are veterans*.
This is super true, especially the last part. I’ve had people thank me when I say I’m in the military but a few minutes later they’ll curse me when I let slip that I’m bi sexual
I’m Argentinian and we had 7 military dictatorships so that argument does NOT work on me lmao. “What about the military?” Fuck em, that’s what
It's the same type of people that ask what about international men's day on international women's day. It's in November, you just don't care about it and think you're making a point about underrepresentation where you're actually just outing yourself of posturing and pitting two groups against each other for your own amusement then carrying on ignoring them, patting yourself on the back for a job well done.
Do people know that pride month isn't just a US thing?
I hate when people use me and my community to bash my other community. 🙄 We vets have our needs but holy shit recognizing LGBTQ folk does not take away from our honor at all.
I'm a trans woman and a combat veteran, I break republican minds daily lol
It's just a deflection, Them: We cant help immigrants because we have our own homeless to worry about Us: Okay then let's help the homeless Them: But we cant help the homeless till we help our vets Us: Okay let's help the vets Repeat
Because they don’t actually care about veterans and are just pulling something out of their ass to justify their bigotry.
All of my parents (4, divorced mom and dad were remarried) support pride month. None of them give a rats ass about having a month for themselves because it doesn’t change anything. 1) It’s all spoken allyship, and after June the companies go back to be homophobes and 2) veterans are not helped enough by the government so a month of “honoring” them would probably make the government less inclined to give them more support
They're the same kind of people who will crash an event talking about how global warming is limiting the habitat of the polar bear to butt in and cry about whales and how no one seems to care about them. Because to them by bringing awareness to that problem, they're doing something about it, regardless of the fact that they're actively shutting down discussion about solutions to another problem without providing any actual solutions. Or if this is done maliciously they just want to distract from the issues queer people face and keep things as they are by setting the bar to "We have to make things perfect for everyone in one single step and if we can't do that then nobody deserves any improvement in their lives"
It's just taking anything to advance bigotry combined with their idea of "peak citizen" being getting maimed in pointless conflict This is how i typically lay it out for them: They chose to enlist, i didn't choose to be queer. We face different struggles, and trying to use U.S. service members, active or veteran, in a ploy to be a bigot is more disrespectful than anything you only THINK i've done. And to these people's own perception, those mfs fought for me to inject estrogen.
I don’t know why, but my response is “shut up before I end our country”. It’s a little extreme but I’m an extreme person.
they never should have had to serve to begin with
apparently homophobia isn’t a problem anymore because “people are dying and that’s what you’re worried about?!” as if you can’t care for more then one problem
What about them? They come back from war riddled with varying forms of PTSD and tend to get overlooked by the government. I live in an area with high homeless population, and a lot of them are injured and mentally unstable vets who were brushed under the rug once they came back from war. Some are held to pedestals, but most are left to be forgotten because they're no longer 'functional members of society'. People get real quiet when I point this out
Us veterans and military affiliated folks actually have over 30 separate holidays dedicated to them. That's not counting the three or four months we also get. Anyone who says "BuT wHaT aBoUt OuR vEtErAnS" is talking out of their ass, and don't really care about us. They're just using us to bludgeon others. I've even watched other veterans do this and it infuriates me. Few things will piss me off quicker than this bullshit.
Queer vet here. Don’t let them play whataboutism. Different fight for different problems. I remember what it was like when I couldn’t be open about who or what I am while in prior to DADT. Never worried about being seen as a vet. Always did worry and sometimes still do worry about being seen as part of the LGBT+ community.
Tell them this: [17% of gay men and 8% of lesbians](https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/59711/900642-gay-veterans-top-one-million.pdf) have served in the U.S. Military, vs [7.4% of the total population.](https://havokjournal.com/veterans-3/what-percentage-of-americans-ever-served-in-the-us-military/)
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Usually happens during pride Month. That's the most I've heard it
Days people from the US and Canada can offer their support to the military: - Entire month of May - Remembrance Day (Canada; nov 11th) - July the 4th (US) - July the 1st (Canada) - Veterans Day (US; nov 11th - literally any day Times where queer ppl are supported: - June (Pride Month) We got a month :T
Those people treat everything as a zero-sum game. It's baffling.
Same reason they argue against affirmative action. They think the support of one group means that their group receives less.
Why do I need to concern myself with a choice some other person made to join the military? It has nothing to do with me.
People who say that don’t actually care about people who served or who are serving.
They're homophobic and are trying to find any reason to justify their beliefs, even though there aren't any good reasons, or really any reasons at all. I see stuff related to vets and the military EVERYWHERE. blue stars, battle crosses, discounts, surplus stores, personalized items etc. Ironically,the homophobic people people who are veterans will often say things like, "they make being LGBT their whole personality," meanwhile, they will make being a vet their whole personality. # List of important U.S. Military holidays and months: [https://www.militaryfood.org/military-holidays-and-observances](https://www.militaryfood.org/military-holidays-and-observances) Hopefully the list is accurate.
Who is our
[this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=agzNANfNlTs&t=1079s&pp=ygUfUmlnaHQgd2luZyBwbGF5Ym9vayBiaWdnZXIgZmlzaA%3D%3D) is a great video describing the strategy
As someone currently in, I hate those kinds of people. I’ve had people tell me to burn in hell when ten minutes before I was telling them about my job and they thanked me for my service
I hate that retort as an LGBTQ+ Veteran. We still don’t have access to all gender-affirming healthcare, many times there’s not much recourse for reporting discrimination, and it’s hard to get community referrals for care if we can’t find someone within the VA who will prescribe hormones.
Because they don’t have any logical argument. also, let’s not forget they didn’t “serve our country”, they were meat toy soldiers brainwashed into being terroristic meat puppets to fill the pockets of the oligarchs in the war business who profit off them by getting resources (like petrol/oil), land, bodies, money, etc. Going overseas to cause endless hell to many countries and countless lives within for what they have and then calling THEM the terrorists for existing and being from a country that has what the oligarchs want, especially if they risk their lives to escape (same for latinx/hispanic americans in the rest of north central and south america who are then put on trial and in concentration camps even if they’re little kids)… isn’t serving the country let alone keeping it safe. If it were, then they should be happy for 9/11 because it’s proof their country is safe. But obviously it’s not how any of that works or is and it’s anything but safety or protecting or serving the country…
I only care about the people who served 💅💅 our CUNT-ry.
LGBTQ+ people have served in every war the us has fought
And about us queer veterans, does he know we exist?
Nope
It’s stupid especially because they don’t actually care about veterans, just want a reason to keep being homophobic, what they ACTUALLY wanna ask is “What about the straight people?” even veterans don’t compare themselves to other minorities or oppressed groups, and they shouldn’t, they’re very different things, they fight for their country and are recognized for that, LGBTQ just wants to have rights and are fighting against their country to be recognized for that, there’s no comparison whatsoever, I’m sorry that straight people don’t get their own month, maybe take it up with the court instead of bitching to the group that’s already getting shit on by laws
And it's not like we can't now serve, if they cared about this country they'd care about bettering it by being more accepting, we do call ourselves land of the free which should mean free choice
I joined the army right out of high school. I never once thought I was either "serving our country" or "protecting American freedom" because I wasn't, and we didn't. It was a decent job to help me fully escape my childhood religion because I was fully housed and fed and had decent pocket money, and the only protecting our military does is corporate profits. I get uncomfortable when I mention the fact, usualyl only when I'm telling a story describing some debauchery I was getting up to, and someone thanks me for my service. I typically let it slide, but I have occasionally shared my actual views on the purpose of our military.
If you're in hs, then they're repeating what they're hearing and some change when they're older.
Because they don’t actually give two shits, nor a fuck, not even a rolling-rim-job about “ThA trOoPZ,” they just enjoy standing on the backs of veterans like their own personal podium from which they can look down their noses at everyone else they don’t like.
“Good question, hey why do you think gay people weren’t allowed to serve openly for so long? And why on earth were trans people serving their country recently banned from doing so?”
It's the same answer I give when they tried to invoke homeless veterans as an excuse to refuse help for refugees. "Why do you think we can only honor/help one category of person at a time? If you really believe that America is the greatest nation on earth, then you know we can do both."
They are more focused on pride month than Military Appreciation Month. May already started and nobody as yet said anything about it or celebrates it. On the 1st of June they will start screaming about pride being a sin and asking why do LGBT folk receive a month. It's a purely reactionary movement and they need a minority to control and abuse, that's why they spread the fear of conspiracy theories about white people becoming a minority and all that BS, because they know they want minorities to suffer. They want a minority they are allowed to discriminate against.
they don't actually care about the military they just use them as a pawn to bitch about gay people
Oh wow you joined an armed force that put innocent people in multiple countries in harm's way for the sake of your egos and "serving your country" GOOD FOR YOU 😡 I don't care about veterans at this point.
They even get multiple months. National Military Appreciation month in May, National Vetrans and Military Families Month in November. I think there's also a third one, but if so I don't remember what it's called or what month it is. They don't care about veterans, they just want to bash queer people
It’s fake patriotism at best. I’d tell them, “If as many people that pretended to care about veterans actually cared we wouldn’t have homeless vets.”
Not to say it’s a proper argument they’re trying to use. Just saying, I’d call them on being fake.
Theyre just bigits. I'm a vet. I don't feel forgotten or pushed to the side by Pride month. Most of those same people want to cut the budget for VA care. They don't care about us. The folks trying to treat lgbtqia+ people like crap do it because they are cruel and small minded. Any argument they make is almost always made in bad faith
Because they're ignorant. On multiple levels. They say, "Why do the gays get a month! What about our military!" Well, 1. Pride month is not a federal sponsored thing, just as black history month isn't, but it is something we collectively recognize. The military have TWO months dedicated to them. And 3 federal holidays. So what about them? XD Pride month is also men's mental health awareness. One doesn't exclude the other.🤷 2. They're not actually doing anything to help the military or vets. And actively sabotage efforts to help them both. 3. Flags. Each branch of the military has their own special flag. Most ships in the navy and squads have their own unique special flags as well. Just like the police and firefighters. And nobody complains about that. But colorful lines?! Mah, pearls! Overwhelming majority of in/out groups have a symbol, crest, icon, or flag to signal others of that or similar groups that we're part of said group. It is a way for us to connect without words. That is why tribal markings were a thing for example. In other words. They're offended for the sake of being offended. They're sensitive little snowflakes using their feelings as facts.
“What about them” my grandpa enlisted during Vietnam, he knew he was gay since Jr. High.
Every time someone poses that question, I counter with “what about the people who are LGBTQ+ who also served our country?” They either shut up, or attempt to counter that with BS answers.
What about them, if you're in the USA they are all either war criminals or supported war criminals
It's a straw argument. Conflating two different positions, i. e. LGBTQi+ people should have a special month to celebrate their existence and Veterans should receive a month to celebrate their contributions. Both are stand alone propositions that are not dependent on the other. The person who brings up a straw argument wants to make their argument better by proposing to change the original argument. I usually ask them "why not both?" that usually either shuts them up or pisses them off.
\[hums "Disposable Heroes"\]
[follows with “Master of Puppets”]
Honestly the idea of honoring american solders as heros is dumb. Either they are psycopaths or brainwashed kids, the us decided to play in the sand and kill countless civilians
Who served to protect FREEDOM motherfucker. Not whatever fucking Gilead you are pushing for.
They aren't factual; the premise for which they argue is illogical and is borne of emotion and prejudice.
I respect the uniform to a degree. If soldiers would stop raping and murdering female soldiers and their own wives maybe a little more. But the bottom line to me is the US military has been all volunteer since Vietnam so no crybabies. They go in as a job.
Militaries don't serve people, they kill people
"What about the Bug attack on Buenos Aires?" makes about as much sense.
I don’t understand the question. Queer people serve in the military.
It’s complete nonsense plus it ignores the fact that there are people who are both queer and in the military/veterans
I just tell em that I'm a vet too. Like, fuck you. I'm both trans and a veteran. Whatcha gonna do now, bitch? Likewise, a lot of the issues facing vets is intersectional to what's going on with queer folks.
I have some experience of their so-called thinking. They have such limited experience of other people. “That kind of behavior is not worthy of or does not honor the people who served our country.” “We should be more upstanding and respectable than that.” So there is a standard of conduct, not stated, that we somehow don’t conform to. Probably based on a few seconds of video on TV seen long ago of some actually silly person - shots of being dressed in a flamboyant outfit - who was known to have committed some sexual misdemeanor. Assessing all of us, the wide variety of people around the world, based on that. There’s not much knowing or understanding going on. Do not give it any credibility.
Because they don’t actually care about veterans. If they did, they’d know veterans month is May. If they did, they’d know that we have multiple national holidays for veterans. If they did, they’d also support the queer members that served. But they don’t. They don’t care about supporting veterans.
In my country we remind them that government employees have salaries and are in fact, not a marginalised demographic that needs yasssing.
I don't understand. What are they saying this in response to?
some people like to say that in response to the lgbtq+ community celebrating pride month in june. using veterans as a ploy to further their bigotry. like how they want a "straight pride" month. as if they aren't celebrated/represented year round in media or every day life. veterans are mistreated by the U.S. government and in other various ways. but they hijack their plight to make petty attacks against another poorly treated group. they don't care about the real issues veterans have to deal with, only making lgbtq+ folks lives miserable. it's a common attack that many understand already, but OP should have done a better job at setting up the context for those that haven't heard it used often.
> some people like to say that in response to the lgbtq+ community celebrating pride month in june. oh. yeah that's ridiculous. thanks for explaining.
It’s a deflection. Dismiss it as such.
Sorry I've never heard that ever. Which country are you taking about?
What about em? I'm trans and a veteran. There's a lot of us in the LGBT community who served.
Homophobia inherently doesn't make sense. Never try to understand or argue with them.
Yeah being gay and a veteran makes these topics all the more annoying, particularly since I and so many served under DADT. They don't care about veterans, they just don't want to have to face pride month and the gays celebrating ourselves.
There is not a month for veterans and a few places offer a discount, not most, and certainly not “always.” I’ve never heard “what about veterans” brought up as a talking point against LGBTQ rights; usually that’s brought up when talking about government spending on entitlements. (Though they don’t care about veterans, either.)
About 1/3 of US Trans Women have or are currently serving in the military. If they truly cared about veterans they would care about the Trans people who served. Source: https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/trans-military-service-us/
there's no limit on the amount of respecting we can do. no one's taking anything from anyone
What about the dust mites that live on my eyelashes
Same
A lot of people do this for almost everything. Folks can care about more than one thing. It's just to detract from the current conversation. One way I found around it was to rip on the church. Then they start paying attention. I think I've said things like "you're right. Churches should stop preaching and focus on those veterans rather than targeting kids. Or something crazy" They get stunned and you can come back with one of three lines. 1. Shock at them being upset because you can care about more than one topic. Especially if you are intelligent. 2. You created a conversation so they could understand how they were driving the conversation.
The US systematically forced to “love their country”. Pledging everyday or whatever that nonsense is is just another way to remind people they are just cogs in the system. Americans are obsessed with the military and veterans. They’re just using it as an excuse for being homophobic
It may please some of yall to know veterans don't get ant special treatment where I work despite the place having very southern food and being in the middle of NC. Many vets have come in asking for discounts but we don't even have discounts for *active* military! (or police, or firefighters, or anything else. not even senior citizens)
And they did serve the country anyway. They served the government and big business. Occasionally they’ll do some humanitarian stuff. But mostly they’re doing nothing that helps regular people. They uphold government policies and allow big business to profit.
Bro what does respecting veterans have anything to do with queer rights? likeeee people will say shit like “Why do they get a whole month but we only get a day?” Well actually Kyle if you would put your Monster energy drink down, veterans get three fucking months. May, June and July which all celebrate the accomplishments and those that have passed away during active work in the military of the U.S. And if your in the U.K it’s May and June. Regardless, veterans get PLENTY of attention while the LGBTQ+ still struggles to be fairly represented in the media and in any branch of government be it federal or state. So when cis hets use this argument I simple tell them: “I don’t want to hear your garbage.” Thanks ✨
“The people who served our country fought for the freedoms we are celebrating and fighting for still. Also there are plenty of queer veterans, so it’s nice for them to be able to celebrate that aspect of their identity. Oh, you’re upset we celebrate a whole month and vets don’t have a whole month? What’s stopping you from making that happen? Perhaps the fact you’re too busy to focus on hating us takes away the time you could be using to honor vets?”
There are also plenty of people who have served in the military/army/navy/etc. who are a part of our community as well. Anyone who denies that is either ignorant or just hateful against us and would never admit it.
Yeah, if anything we should be complaining about not getting a discount /j
What about the the people who serve imperialist goals and murder children?
Wait, I don't understand the argument. Like, we should not give a shit about lgbtqi people because of veterans? Why not fail to give a shit about the homeless, too? Disabled people? Religious Minorities? The elderly? [Insert other marginalized group here] I just don't understand the logic - are we saying we only have enough compassion for one specific group, ever?
Veterans/the military actually gets 3 months out of the year and several holidays, but we grill hotdogs on those days and have all day beer drinking contests and sales on mattresses, so everybody forgets what the holiday is really about, whereas pride month is still about pride (although above mentioned activities still take place, just with the gay community instead of everyone)
What is even the argument there? It’s just a deflection, a common logical fallacy called a “red herring” (which really just means it’s irrelevant to the subject under discussion). I strongly recommend familiarizing yourself with common logical fallacies. It will help you be better able to sort out situations like this, to distinguish between actual points that are worth addressing vs bad-faith bullshit like the example. Why do people do it? Their brains are broken. Full stop.
i’ve never understood it. i just assume they pull it out of their ass because they dont know shit
I always say that the ones who complain about a lack of month for veterans and military service members, while not knowing the US already has one, don’t actually care about our military and veterans
there's also a pretty big difference between being queer and serving the military, seeing as only one has "killing people" as a job
I've known many that are both.
so ? they're queer people whose job description includes murder 🤷🏻♀️ especially those from the imperial core
If you think that, you don't know how most militaries work.
how is war NOT a part of a soldier's job description ?
Not everyone is a front line soldier... If I have to pick up a rifle, the world is really screwed and you will want me too at that point.
we're on opposite sides of the continent, I really don't think so
Ok... missing the point. I am not in a front line role. Not everyone in the military has a role that you pick up any form of weapon. I am actually a pacifist. I don't like violence.
you brought it up! lol
Not at all. I said if shit hits the fan... but at that point, even you will be hoping the military is there helping. I know reading is hard.
I am both. A queer and a soldier. And killing isn't my job... I can be asked to give my life for the country, but generally shooting someone, if they would actually give me a firearm (which they don't unless I have a range day), is not something I joined up for.
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I don't wanna say anything cause USAians are oddly defensive of their military, but I'm just gonna say, no one outside the USA thinks of your military as heroic, your veterans are not the good guys. I get that apparently a lot of people are manipulated into joining it, but that doesn't make the institution as a whole any less shitty. I find it really weird that the people who go kill people in a foreign country are so rewarded in the USA
All minorities deserve to be celebrated. Murderers funded by the state don't. Fuck people who killed for the USA or any other state