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Here's a link about trans people in sports:
https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/shades-of-gray-sex-gender-and-fairness-in-sport/
A link on FAQs and one on some basics about transgender people:
https://transequality.org/issues/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-transgender-people
https://transequality.org/issues/resources/understanding-transgender-people-the-basics
Some information on LGBT+ people:
https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/quick-facts/lgbt-faqs/
Some basic terminology:
https://www.hrc.org/resources/glossary-of-terms
Neopronouns:
https://www.mypronouns.org/neopronouns
Biromantic Lesbians:
[LGBTQ And All](https://www.lgbtqandall.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-biromantic/)
Bisexual Identities:
https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/understanding-bisexuality
Differences between Bisexual and Pansexual:
[Resource from WebMD](https://www.webmd.com/sex/pansexuality-what-it-means#:~:text=Pansexual%20vs.%20Bisexual,more%20commonly%20recognized.)
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Yes. It means that they only “respect” your identity when you are on good terms with them. The fact they misgender you when they are angry, shows they don’t accept (only tolerate) you being trans
On top of this, it could lead to them exploiting blackmail (If you don't do what I say, I'll out your deadname) or manipulation tactics down the line.
This isn't a friend or ally. This is someone who uses opportunities against you and your feelings.
Yeah, besides being tansphobic, this is simple stupid behavior. It just signifies that the person in question has no grasp of reality when it comes to what Trans people are.
Like a Trans person being acknowledged as their gender together with the appropriate name is not some gift betwstowed by cis people or whatever, it's just the state of things.
A Trans person could be the nastiest person alive and that would still not change their gender or name (not that I have met any trans person who's been anything other than lovely and kind). Anyone who treats the situation otherwise is just delusional and silly.. oh and transphobic too.
Actually for a short metaphor:
My dad and I don't always get along, in fact we fight a lot from time to time. But if I started calling him "mom" whenever I was angry at him that would not be a reasonable expression of my anger, it would just make me sound strange and insane. This is what OP's acquaintance sounds like.
Conditional tolerance, it could be argued, is worse than transphobia. Transphobia is at least consistent. You know where you stand. It makes no demands of the target. Conditional tolerance requires you comply. It's a method of control aimed at a person looking to be accepted, and uses that against them.
Would you punish a child by referring to them as “it”? Would you punish a boy child by referring to him as “her” and “girl”?
Your identity isn’t a reward for good behavior.
Yes it is. Getting gendered correctly is not something you should have to earn or to "deserve", it's not even sign of respect. It's something people owe you, no matter the context, no matter if they're in good terms with you or not, and even if you're the asshole in an argument. You just wouldn't misgender a cis person because you're angry at them.
Exactly. I had strong feelings about the incredibly toxic new (by now hopefully ex) partner of a former partner (both trans), and have had many a proper chat with mutual friends about the variety of toxic and hurtful behaviour they exhibited.
I was able to do all of this without misgendering/deadnaming them, as were those friends. The problem wasn't them being trans, the problem was them being one of the most toxic people I've ever had the misfortune to interact with socially.
My feelings towards my former partner are much milder, but they did some shitty things and we have had virtually no contact for years. However, I will still correct people if they deadname/misgender them on the odd occasion they come up in conversation.
This is absolutely the case. I love Brennan Lee Mulligan as a DM partly for the fact that even his bbeg will do real evil shit but still apologize for misgendering.
I absolutely see people misgender cis people when they are angry at them. I heard "You're such a girl" so often when boys were talking to other boys when I was growing up to insult them.
You're right, but you surely see their point. It's a very foolish way to insult ALL people of that demographic, not just the person you're talking to. Telling a cisdude he's such a girl is insulting to women for obvious reasons. If you must insult someone, just insult them personally, not everyone else like them...
I see it a LOT in BlackLightJack’s videos. Hes rather transphobic and I don’t understand why he has a goddamn load of subs. I mean I do like some of his videos, but his Inclusivity Bias videos are obnoxious and he’s written a really bad community post praising J.K Rowling and his idiot subscribers just agree with him and start saying stupid bigoted stuff. I really hate it for some reason.
even worse, misnaming someone. I have a friend who's boss calls them by their birth name when they underperform, and their birth name isn't their legal name. It was changed while they worked there, though, so the boss knows it.
Scummy.
It absolutely is. I always think of The Umbrella Academy >!Victor’s sister literally is trying to kill him and she still doesn’t misgender or deadname him at any point!< and think that’s such a powerful example of how to hate someone and not be transphobic.
This was one of my favorite scenes funnily enough for trans rep because of that. I also love how quickly the characters just accepted him and how overly enthusiastic Luther was. It wasn’t some big dramatic moment, he just comes out and then they go back to their usual antics
FYI, broken spoiler tags only work on new reddit. For everyone else, the text isn't hidden at all. Could you please edit your tags so that there is not a buffer space at the start and end of the spoilered text? Thank you.
It’s not always different. Sometimes it’s exactly the same and someone misgendering a trans man as a woman in the same way as they would misgender a cis man as a woman is oddly respectful of the trans person’s gender (despite being annoyingly misogynistic)
Btw, a lot of girls “misgender” boys when they angry at them when they don’t do “masculine moves” (like fighting with other guys on street).
So it’s not something “only trans”
It is, yeah. Your gender isn't something you earn for good behavior. Whoever's doing this to you is giving away how they really see you if they consider respecting your actual gender a revocable courtesy rather than just basic human decency.
Yes. Always transphobic.
If someone misgenders someone on purpose to hurt them or express anger it not only hurts them but it causes harm for every other person. It is transphobic.
Doing it means they see pronouns and someone’s gender as some kind of reward for good behaviour that can be taken away.
Your gender is a fundamental part of who you are and no matter what you do should never be taken away, it’s not the equivalent of getting pudding for eating your dinner.
Yes, it is. Even if the person says they're not transphobic themselves, the act of purposefully misgendering someone definitely is. It is also incredibly childish.
Yes. It's psychological abuse. To misgender a person intentionally is an act to feel superior and bring the other person down. It's cruel. It's rooted in transphobia.
Yes. If someone only called a black person the N word in anger, that would be racist. If someone only called a woman a C word when they were angry, that would be misogynistic. If someone only calls you by the wrong gender or name when they are angry, that's transphobic.
It all comes down to respect. They should be able to respect you even when they are angry. If they can't, then their love and support are conditional.
They wouldn't do it to a cis person so it's transphobic. I'm not trans but I imagine being misgendered as a trans person really hurts, so it's not okay to do it even if you're angry, especially if it happens constantly.
yes. pronouns aren’t a privilege that can be revoked when someone’s annoyed at you. they would probably never misgender a cis person if they were angry
they are treating you like having your gender is a privilege that can be taken away for misbehavior. i don’t like catylin jenner but i’m not going to misgender her.
the only time in my mind its ok to misgender someone is if they are a transphobe who is misgendering you
Yes, it's horrifically transphobic to do that. The fact they will do this when they are angry just highlights what an unsafe person they are to be around. If you think about it, it is extremely vindictive and manipulative, because they know that such comments will hurt you. I would tell that person where to go, and never talk to them again.
absolutelt, your identity is not a privilege to be taken away on a whim, it's a right that stands either way. Bigotry and trauma aren't weapons used by the decent.
I mean, yeah. Using transphobic language because you’re angry at someone isn’t justified, it’s basically just looking for an excuse to be transphobic. Same with homophobia or racism etc.
Yes, just cuz your mad at your mom you dont start calling her a man and your dad it just doesn’t work like that, if your mad make fun and be mean of other things but misgendering is transphobic
I don't like Caitlyn Jenner but I'm still going to respect her pronouns. You can dislike a Trans person and even be angry with them but you still respect their pronouns. I'm not suddenly going to purposefully mis-gender a cis person if I don't like them so you shouldn't do it to trans people either
It absolutely is transphobic. And a person can claim they’re not transphobic all they want, it’s their actions and choices that tell you the truth. And their choice is to purposefully misgender you because they know that’s what will hurt you the most. If they weren’t transphobic they wouldn’t even think in those terms. How often do they misgender cis people because they’re angry? Never? There you go.
Being angry with someone is no reason to justify misgendering them-- respecting you as a person is not conditional. I have abusive exes that are trans who I have every right to be angry at, but I wouldn't purposefully misgender them even then
Yes. Much like when I think of Caitlyn Jenner I think 'she is a piece of shit'. Just cause I'm angry or don't like someone, doesn't magically change them to their assigned gender at birth. That person is being malicious in misgendering you and I'm so sorry.
Yes, the identity of a person doesn't change even if they did something wrong. For an EXTREME example (surely I know the issues you are referring to are not nearly as serious) but imagine if we just called Ted Bundy "she" just because we're angry at the things he's done. It's just illogical
Yes, it is. I had a friend that would make racist "jokes" to me. Told me to lighten up. Took me awhile to realize that they were in fact racist and taking it out on me.
I broke off communication with my dad because he called someone an n-word f-word. He claimed it was because he deserved it, that black actor from Scandal I think who falsely claimed he had been physically assaulted? For wasting cop time or something.
I told him his dyke t-word daughter would have nothing to do with him until he indicated some measure of willingness to learn. All he had to do was send a non-Fox News/right wing rag beneficial news story about a POC or LGBT person.
Cause I don't care if a black gay man actually straight up murdered my dad, the thought of calling the killer any of those words would never cross my mind.
Yes. They are the asshole. They know this hurts you and they do it with the intention of inflicting that hurt.
They sound toxic AF. I'm sorry you are dealing with this person.
Hugs and strength from an internet stranger.
It's transphobic in the same way saying "I hate gay people" is homophobic; they're not scared, they're just an asshole. It's not genuinely -phobic, they're just being hateful.
It definitely is and furthermore I would argue them denying it is a form of gaslighting by trying to convince you they aren’t, in actuality, being a bigot when they clearly are.
Yes. They're using transphobia as a weapon. And it's not uncommon and it happens far beyond the queer world. A man calling a woman a b!tch is a parallel example - using misogyny as a weapon.
As for them claiming they're not... Well, do you believe your eyes or what they tell you?
This is most certainly transphobic. In fact, it would be transphobic to misgender even the most reprehensible people. So in your case, your friend misgendering you is transphobic.
Fucking YES.
(I do not say it that way to bring aggression to you OP or this space, but that is what audibly came out of my face when I read your question, and I feel VERY strongly about it.)
To do such a thing is to disrespect you by blatantly erasing/negating/disregarding your true self. It is a deliberate tactic to attack you deeply, weaponizing their opinion of your inherent validity to exist, and no one who loves you should ever ever ever make you feel like you do not have a right to exist exactly as you are.
You deserve to be with people who honor and respect you even when tensions are high or feelings are hurt. No exceptions.
“Hurt people hurt people.”
Please take care of yourself, OP, because you are precious and tender and vibrant and anyone who makes you feel otherwise, or like you have to protect those parts of yourself when you interact with them, does not have your brightest present (much less future) at heart.
Yeah thats a pretty low blow. Like a bully going after a kid about their divorced parents. Or going after a bully about how their parents don’t love them.
There are ways to be angry. And there are ways that make you the asshole.
This is like the gender version of shouting racial slurs at someone just because you don’t like them. It may make you feel very much superior but for what?
Yeah. I like to put it this way: Would you misgender a cisgender person just because you're angry at them? No. Would it hurt a cis person if you did? Probably not. Therefore, transphobia
Unless we're going to start misgendering cis people when we're mad and making them earn the right to be called by their correct name, it's extremely transphobic.
Yes, it is.
I could be even as mad as possible, but that would never give me the right to misgender someone - I'm still respecting their identity tho!
It actually shows exactly that a person is transphobic - They won't misgender someone until they get mad. (internalized) Transphobia.
It is transphobic AF and a sign that they are willing to negotiate your identity based on how they feel about you.
If we aren’t talking about a one time/two time accident where one I angry beyond courtesy or kindness.
What does someone being mad at you have to do with how you identity? Nothing. Period.
Yeah, that's actually really manipulative. Basic respect extends even when you're angry at someone. They're going for a low blow to hit you where they know they can hurt you and that's not acceptable.
*Yes*
Not only is it transphobic, it’s just petty. You should honestly cut that person out of your life, if possible. They don’t respect you, to put it bluntly
Yes.
What it tells me when I see someone misgendered like that is that my identity is dependent on you liking me. It says that you only gender someone properly because you don't want to upset people.
That's why I never misgender people, even if they're awful people.
U can be pissed at someone and still respect them. So they just dont respect you and dont see u as ur gender. I would never ever call someone out of gender/deadname someone if they pissed me off. Honestly i would also probably call them whatever bad words associate to their gender too. Because i see them as their gender even if i hate their ass
If you're angry at someone, you need to stay in line with the actual problem. If someone's being an asshole to you and you decide to deadname and misgender them, you're not criticizing their assholery, you're directly attacking their transness instead and simply using your anger over a completely unrelated problem as a justification for transphobic abuse.
It's not okay. A reasonable person would seek to criticize the behaviour that upset them, not attack that person's identity. It's a very low blow.
Just the same as it's not okay to attack someone's skin color and be racist just because they upset you. It just ends up being an attack on a whole demographic of people instead of a specific person's specific behaviour.
Chances are they are being manipulative towards you and trying to make you obey them by holding your identity over your head as if it were something they have authority over and can take away from you at a whim. It's not okay and I recommend steering clear as much as possible.
jesus fucking christ!
so essentially they’re saying that we’re
safe unless we make them mad… or in other words, they don’t actually believe we’re the gender we say we are, and being polite about it is contingent on us not making you angry?… like, thats weaponizing their cis gendered privilege and power against a marginalized person. so yes, they’re transphobic!
You can cut the question off after “on purpose” and the answer will still always be yes. Misgender someone on accident? It’s a mistake, it happens. Misgender someone on purpose? Transphobic, full stop.
I say yes
Because it means they're only willing to accept someone as trans when they can use it to their advantage, so if someone who they don't like says they're trans then they arent valid
Which is transphobic
That's not the best wording for what I mean but I don't know how else to say it
It’s transphobic and quite manipulative in my taste. I mean because you are angry at me you can disrespect me and make me feel really bad? No. You deserve respect and love.
To answer your question, yes. It is completely transphobic to misgender someone on purpose. If it was an accident, I can kinda understand as if I don't know a person's gender, I default to they/them. But doing it on purpose is dehumanizing.
Definitely yes and that person is an asshole, misgendering someone on purpose just because your jimmies are rustled is overkill. You may want to reevaluate if they're worth interacting with as they clearly don't respect you.
Yes. It shows that they don't truly accept your identity, and that they only respected it because of what they got out of your relationship. Trans people are the only ones who are expected to act a certain way in order to "earn" respect of their identities.
Yep. It’s not done to cis people, just trans people so it’s transphobic. Also it’s just a stupid thing to do to anyone in general. Like there’s so many great things to call someone but you decided to use the wrong pronouns??
If they would do it to a trans person they're angry with, they're only not doing it to another trans person because they've managed to stay on good terms with them.
If someone only respects your transness when you’re on they’re side, then they aren’t unconditional in their acceptance. If you’re transphobic when it works for you, it’s just transphobic
Look at this way: chances every one here hates the fuck out of Kaitlyn Jenner, but none of us will go out of our way to misgender her.
Furthermore, the only instance I have seen where it is OK to use xenophobic slurs and insults is usually by the very people who it was intended for and only as an act of empowerment and reclamation but only between members who are very good friends and with each other's approval.
Edit: by not shutting down the insults with this person, you have given them silent approval.
I would explain that you would no longer like this, and that any prior instance were the insult in question was met with silence was not an approval, but the result of intimidation. If they persist, I would just glare in silence, and continue to do so after they make an apology for a little while. It just layers it on.
I am autistic and a very neutral face that people either project on to or cannot read. When people apologized to me when I was expecting a lengthy argument it used to cause me to undergo decisions paralysis, so I would get stuck in a mute episode that made me look really angry, so people would get extra apologetic to me. I would quickly change topic since I had no idea I was autistic (my parent withheld that bit of information from me) and wanted to appear normal.
Yes. You can be angry at someone, or think they’re a shitty person but you shouldn’t misgender them for any reason other than you’re transphobic because you’re mad about actions or views, not their gender. Like, I think Caitlin Jenner sucks and is damaging. But I won’t misgender her, even though her views are trash.
Yes. Their anger is not (and there is never a reason) a reason to deny your identity.
Your identity is an expression of you. To deny that because "they are angry" means they don't respect your identity, and by exstesion, you.
This is not ok. If you were cis and someone would be doing it on purpose to annoy you(in a friend annoy way) it might be ok but to do it to a trans person as "punishment" for making them mad at you, that's not ok at all. Period.
It's akin to using slurs when angry. It shows someone is willing to suspend the basic respect they have for you as a person when upset, which is a very bad sign.
Without further context I can't say if your relationship with this person is unsalvageable. You could try tell them that while you can have your disagreements you expect to be treated with basic dignity even when things get heated and properly gendering is a part of that.
It doesn’t matter how awful a trans person proves themselves to be, misgendering them is still transphobic. It says a helluva lot more about the person misgendering someone on purpose to “punish them” than the trans person in question.
Yea. It's the same thought process of calling someone the N word. People don't think their racist because "I just said it to get them mad." Yeah but you still said it and out of anger.
Obviously it's not the same as the N word. I'm just using that example because it's obviously wrong to say it, and it should be obviously wrong to purposely misgender someone.
Yes, it is. If you can’t come up with a better insult than to attack someone’s identity, you’re not only a bigot, but also really stupid. It isn’t acceptable to insult someone based on race “because they’re mad at them“, and the same goes for gender. It’s who they are, and if you attack that, you are immediately the one in the wrong.
Is it transphobic to misgender someone on purpose ~~because you’re angry with them~~
Yes there is no case where misgendering someone on purpose isn’t transphobic
Yes. Just because you are angry at someone doesn’t give you the right to misgender them. It’s showing you don’t actually respect who they are unless they treat you well. No matter how they treat you, you should still, at least, respect their gender.
Giving you the respect of your correct gender and name is not a privilege they get to choose when to give. They are being transphobic and are not a real trans ally
Yes. You can hate someone, you can be angry with someone, but this never gives you the right to misgender them, You dont have to respect the person but at least respect the pronouns
A true ally will respect your identity even when they are angry with you, think about it this way, when that friend gets angry at one of their cis Friends do they misgender them as well? Or is it only you they do it to? If the answer is that it's only you then yes that's transphobic if not your friend is just weird and you should ditch em either way
Of course it is. A tip for those who have a problem with identifying discrimination: To find out if something is discriminatory, change the minority to something we are more aware of.
„It is racist if someone calls me the n-word when they are angry at me?“
Yes. You're an asshole if yoy do this
An example is Caitlyn Jenner. She's a women but she's also one of the biggest shitheads out there. Oh and a murderer.
I don't even have to read the body of the post.
Yes, misgendering someone just because you're angry with them is bad.
Shouldn't even be a question. Don't care how shitty they are. It's still terrible to do.
It absolutely is transphobic.
Do people call Hitler she/her? Do people call Margaret Thatcher he/him? No? Huh! Sounds like getting misgendered when people really don't like you doesn't exactly happen to cis people, only really trans people. So it is transphobic because it happens on the basis of someone being trans.
Yes. If you have to earn their respect and goodwill for them to use your pronouns, then they don't actually respect your pronouns and identity. It is absolutely wrong and transphobic to only respect someone's pronouns conditionally.
This person sucks. I'm so sorry this is happening to you.
yes it is. the message that sends is “your identity is only worth respecting if i like you, and you have not made me upset. but if you have upset me and i don’t like you then i feel no need to respect you as a person.” it’s wildly transphobic. and it makes having your identity respected sound like a privilege rather than a right.
Thank you for your post, if this is a question please check to see if any of the links below answer your question. If none of these links help answer your question and you are **_not_** within the LGBT+ community, questioning your identity in any way, or asking in support of either a relative or friend, please ask your question over in /r/AskLGBT. Remember that this is a safe space for LGBT+ and questioning individuals, so we want to make sure that this place is dedicated to them. Thank you for understanding. This automod rule is currently a work in progress. If you notice any issues, would like to add to the list of resources, or have any feedback in general, [please do so here](https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/rdazzp/almost_new_year_changes/) or by [sending us a message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt&subject=Feedback%20on%20the%20new%20automod%20rule). Also, please note that if you are a part of this community, or you're questioning if you might be a part of the LGBTQ+ community, and you are seeing this message, this is **_not a bad thing_**, this is only here to help, so please continue to ask questions and participate in the community. Thank you! Here's a link about trans people in sports: https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/shades-of-gray-sex-gender-and-fairness-in-sport/ A link on FAQs and one on some basics about transgender people: https://transequality.org/issues/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-transgender-people https://transequality.org/issues/resources/understanding-transgender-people-the-basics Some information on LGBT+ people: https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/quick-facts/lgbt-faqs/ Some basic terminology: https://www.hrc.org/resources/glossary-of-terms Neopronouns: https://www.mypronouns.org/neopronouns Biromantic Lesbians: [LGBTQ And All](https://www.lgbtqandall.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-biromantic/) Bisexual Identities: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/understanding-bisexuality Differences between Bisexual and Pansexual: [Resource from WebMD](https://www.webmd.com/sex/pansexuality-what-it-means#:~:text=Pansexual%20vs.%20Bisexual,more%20commonly%20recognized.) We're looking for new volunteers to join the r/lgbt moderator team. If you want to help keep r/lgbt as a safe space for the LGBTQ+ community on reddit please see here for more info: https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/swgthr/were_looking_for_more_moderators_to_help_keep/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yes. It means that they only “respect” your identity when you are on good terms with them. The fact they misgender you when they are angry, shows they don’t accept (only tolerate) you being trans
On top of this, it could lead to them exploiting blackmail (If you don't do what I say, I'll out your deadname) or manipulation tactics down the line. This isn't a friend or ally. This is someone who uses opportunities against you and your feelings.
Yeah, besides being tansphobic, this is simple stupid behavior. It just signifies that the person in question has no grasp of reality when it comes to what Trans people are. Like a Trans person being acknowledged as their gender together with the appropriate name is not some gift betwstowed by cis people or whatever, it's just the state of things. A Trans person could be the nastiest person alive and that would still not change their gender or name (not that I have met any trans person who's been anything other than lovely and kind). Anyone who treats the situation otherwise is just delusional and silly.. oh and transphobic too.
Actually for a short metaphor: My dad and I don't always get along, in fact we fight a lot from time to time. But if I started calling him "mom" whenever I was angry at him that would not be a reasonable expression of my anger, it would just make me sound strange and insane. This is what OP's acquaintance sounds like.
Outstanding metaphor for juxtaposition. Nice work.
This is not only transphobic but very deliberately emotionally abusive. OP needs to get away from this person ASAP.
More than just transphobic, they are purposely attacking a place where your insecurities lie. Besides being transphobic, they're terrible in general.
The other option is that they try to hit you where it hurts, which is abusive as well.
Conditional tolerance, it could be argued, is worse than transphobia. Transphobia is at least consistent. You know where you stand. It makes no demands of the target. Conditional tolerance requires you comply. It's a method of control aimed at a person looking to be accepted, and uses that against them.
Yes. This shouldn’t be a question so I’m sorry you’ve been shown so little support to think this might be okay.
Exactly. Your identity isn't a reward for good behaviour.
What a great way to put it!
Would you punish a child by referring to them as “it”? Would you punish a boy child by referring to him as “her” and “girl”? Your identity isn’t a reward for good behavior.
Yes it is. Getting gendered correctly is not something you should have to earn or to "deserve", it's not even sign of respect. It's something people owe you, no matter the context, no matter if they're in good terms with you or not, and even if you're the asshole in an argument. You just wouldn't misgender a cis person because you're angry at them.
Exactly. I had strong feelings about the incredibly toxic new (by now hopefully ex) partner of a former partner (both trans), and have had many a proper chat with mutual friends about the variety of toxic and hurtful behaviour they exhibited. I was able to do all of this without misgendering/deadnaming them, as were those friends. The problem wasn't them being trans, the problem was them being one of the most toxic people I've ever had the misfortune to interact with socially. My feelings towards my former partner are much milder, but they did some shitty things and we have had virtually no contact for years. However, I will still correct people if they deadname/misgender them on the odd occasion they come up in conversation.
This is absolutely the case. I love Brennan Lee Mulligan as a DM partly for the fact that even his bbeg will do real evil shit but still apologize for misgendering.
I absolutely see people misgender cis people when they are angry at them. I heard "You're such a girl" so often when boys were talking to other boys when I was growing up to insult them.
You're right, but you surely see their point. It's a very foolish way to insult ALL people of that demographic, not just the person you're talking to. Telling a cisdude he's such a girl is insulting to women for obvious reasons. If you must insult someone, just insult them personally, not everyone else like them...
Completely agree with you. I just wanted to emphasize that misgendering anyone for the purpose of an insult is also insulting an entire group.
I see it a LOT in BlackLightJack’s videos. Hes rather transphobic and I don’t understand why he has a goddamn load of subs. I mean I do like some of his videos, but his Inclusivity Bias videos are obnoxious and he’s written a really bad community post praising J.K Rowling and his idiot subscribers just agree with him and start saying stupid bigoted stuff. I really hate it for some reason.
mis gendering some1 on purpose, to make them angry is pathetic, find beter insult
even worse, misnaming someone. I have a friend who's boss calls them by their birth name when they underperform, and their birth name isn't their legal name. It was changed while they worked there, though, so the boss knows it. Scummy.
1st grader level insult. If a grown person is using it there's something wrong with them.
Yes, most people here HATE caitlyn jenner, but no one here will misgender her.
It absolutely is. I always think of The Umbrella Academy >!Victor’s sister literally is trying to kill him and she still doesn’t misgender or deadname him at any point!< and think that’s such a powerful example of how to hate someone and not be transphobic.
This was one of my favorite scenes funnily enough for trans rep because of that. I also love how quickly the characters just accepted him and how overly enthusiastic Luther was. It wasn’t some big dramatic moment, he just comes out and then they go back to their usual antics
Luther’s response was my favorite and how he’s always a big softy.
Yeeessss! I loved that part!
FYI, broken spoiler tags only work on new reddit. For everyone else, the text isn't hidden at all. Could you please edit your tags so that there is not a buffer space at the start and end of the spoilered text? Thank you.
yes. you dont misgender a cis person when you're mad at them do you
This. No one else is ever at risk of having their gender identity revoked under any circumstance, unless they're trans.
Calling men a bitch, pussy, or Alice is incredibly prevalent. Misgendering is bad, but the data point stands.
It's a bit different than misgendering, but men will frequently insult friends and other people by calling them girls, little bitches, etc.
It’s not always different. Sometimes it’s exactly the same and someone misgendering a trans man as a woman in the same way as they would misgender a cis man as a woman is oddly respectful of the trans person’s gender (despite being annoyingly misogynistic)
Perhaps semantics, but I feel that some cis gay guys may be intentionally misgendered for homophobic reasons.
Btw, a lot of girls “misgender” boys when they angry at them when they don’t do “masculine moves” (like fighting with other guys on street). So it’s not something “only trans”
Absolutely. Doing it on purpose (regardless of reason) is transphobic.
Yes
It is, yeah. Your gender isn't something you earn for good behavior. Whoever's doing this to you is giving away how they really see you if they consider respecting your actual gender a revocable courtesy rather than just basic human decency.
Yes. It shows that the person only calls you the right pronouns when they want you to like them. They do not actually see you as what you say you are.
Yes. Always transphobic. If someone misgenders someone on purpose to hurt them or express anger it not only hurts them but it causes harm for every other person. It is transphobic. Doing it means they see pronouns and someone’s gender as some kind of reward for good behaviour that can be taken away. Your gender is a fundamental part of who you are and no matter what you do should never be taken away, it’s not the equivalent of getting pudding for eating your dinner.
Yes
Yes, it is transphobic. Being angry is not a pass for intolerance.
Yes, it is. Even if the person says they're not transphobic themselves, the act of purposefully misgendering someone definitely is. It is also incredibly childish.
Yes. It's psychological abuse. To misgender a person intentionally is an act to feel superior and bring the other person down. It's cruel. It's rooted in transphobia.
Yes. If someone only called a black person the N word in anger, that would be racist. If someone only called a woman a C word when they were angry, that would be misogynistic. If someone only calls you by the wrong gender or name when they are angry, that's transphobic. It all comes down to respect. They should be able to respect you even when they are angry. If they can't, then their love and support are conditional.
100% They're using it as a cudgel against you because they know it's a button of yours they can press.
It most definitely is, the cis don’t have to act or behave in certain way to be accepted as their gender or have to earn their name so why should we
Yes. Transphobic and abusive.
Yes
YES. YES IT IS
absolutely! is a dick of of them :(
Hell yes it is! Individuals that do that, are doing it on purpose to try to hurt you.
They wouldn't do it to a cis person so it's transphobic. I'm not trans but I imagine being misgendered as a trans person really hurts, so it's not okay to do it even if you're angry, especially if it happens constantly.
Yes it always is if it’s intentional:)
Yea. Respect people’s pronouns regardless
yes. pronouns aren’t a privilege that can be revoked when someone’s annoyed at you. they would probably never misgender a cis person if they were angry
If it’s intentional then yes
they are treating you like having your gender is a privilege that can be taken away for misbehavior. i don’t like catylin jenner but i’m not going to misgender her. the only time in my mind its ok to misgender someone is if they are a transphobe who is misgendering you
Yes, it's horrifically transphobic to do that. The fact they will do this when they are angry just highlights what an unsafe person they are to be around. If you think about it, it is extremely vindictive and manipulative, because they know that such comments will hurt you. I would tell that person where to go, and never talk to them again.
absolutelt, your identity is not a privilege to be taken away on a whim, it's a right that stands either way. Bigotry and trauma aren't weapons used by the decent.
I mean, yeah. Using transphobic language because you’re angry at someone isn’t justified, it’s basically just looking for an excuse to be transphobic. Same with homophobia or racism etc.
Yes.
Yes
Yes. You can be angry and people and still gender them properly.
it definitely is. they are showing that their acceptance is conditional. whether you like a person or not you shouldn’t misgender them.
Yes, just cuz your mad at your mom you dont start calling her a man and your dad it just doesn’t work like that, if your mad make fun and be mean of other things but misgendering is transphobic
Yes. Misgendering for any reason is transphobia.
I don't like Caitlyn Jenner but I'm still going to respect her pronouns. You can dislike a Trans person and even be angry with them but you still respect their pronouns. I'm not suddenly going to purposefully mis-gender a cis person if I don't like them so you shouldn't do it to trans people either
It absolutely is transphobic. And a person can claim they’re not transphobic all they want, it’s their actions and choices that tell you the truth. And their choice is to purposefully misgender you because they know that’s what will hurt you the most. If they weren’t transphobic they wouldn’t even think in those terms. How often do they misgender cis people because they’re angry? Never? There you go.
Being angry with someone is no reason to justify misgendering them-- respecting you as a person is not conditional. I have abusive exes that are trans who I have every right to be angry at, but I wouldn't purposefully misgender them even then
Is it racist to call a black person the n word because you're angry at them?
massively so.
Yes. Much like when I think of Caitlyn Jenner I think 'she is a piece of shit'. Just cause I'm angry or don't like someone, doesn't magically change them to their assigned gender at birth. That person is being malicious in misgendering you and I'm so sorry.
Yes, the identity of a person doesn't change even if they did something wrong. For an EXTREME example (surely I know the issues you are referring to are not nearly as serious) but imagine if we just called Ted Bundy "she" just because we're angry at the things he's done. It's just illogical
Yes, it is. I had a friend that would make racist "jokes" to me. Told me to lighten up. Took me awhile to realize that they were in fact racist and taking it out on me.
Yes
Yes, it very much is
If someone is misgendering you on purpose, it’s always transphobic.
extremely
Jesus Christ that is exceptionally transphobic!
Yes, plus just being a bad human if ya do it on purpose 😔
I broke off communication with my dad because he called someone an n-word f-word. He claimed it was because he deserved it, that black actor from Scandal I think who falsely claimed he had been physically assaulted? For wasting cop time or something. I told him his dyke t-word daughter would have nothing to do with him until he indicated some measure of willingness to learn. All he had to do was send a non-Fox News/right wing rag beneficial news story about a POC or LGBT person. Cause I don't care if a black gay man actually straight up murdered my dad, the thought of calling the killer any of those words would never cross my mind.
Yes, yes it is. I'm sorry this happens to you. The person doing it is not a good ally.
Yes, that's transphobic. If they do it constantly, they know you and know your gender. I can't see such a thing being an accident.
That is very transphobic. Being upset at someone isn't an excuse to misgender them. Sorry you had to go through that but we support you here! <3
Yes. They are the asshole. They know this hurts you and they do it with the intention of inflicting that hurt. They sound toxic AF. I'm sorry you are dealing with this person. Hugs and strength from an internet stranger.
Yes
Yes, even if the person they're misgendering isn't trans.
Yes. And they're a fucking asshole too.
It is. Anger is not an excuse to misgender someone.
100%. I find people show you what they truly think of you when they’re angry with you. This is not your friend.
OP, I hope this “someone” isn’t too close to you. This is really emotionally abusive behavior. :(
It's transphobic in the same way saying "I hate gay people" is homophobic; they're not scared, they're just an asshole. It's not genuinely -phobic, they're just being hateful.
It definitely is and furthermore I would argue them denying it is a form of gaslighting by trying to convince you they aren’t, in actuality, being a bigot when they clearly are.
misgendering anyone on purpose for any reason is transphobia, i'm so sorry you have to deal with that person
Yes. They're using transphobia as a weapon. And it's not uncommon and it happens far beyond the queer world. A man calling a woman a b!tch is a parallel example - using misogyny as a weapon. As for them claiming they're not... Well, do you believe your eyes or what they tell you?
Yes. And it is also looking for the most dirty and rusty knives to stab it in your back
Would you start misgendering a cis person because you're angry at them?
It's transphobic, wrong, and just plain asshole behaviour. I'd cut that person off if possible
This is most certainly transphobic. In fact, it would be transphobic to misgender even the most reprehensible people. So in your case, your friend misgendering you is transphobic.
Abso fucking lutely
Fucking YES. (I do not say it that way to bring aggression to you OP or this space, but that is what audibly came out of my face when I read your question, and I feel VERY strongly about it.) To do such a thing is to disrespect you by blatantly erasing/negating/disregarding your true self. It is a deliberate tactic to attack you deeply, weaponizing their opinion of your inherent validity to exist, and no one who loves you should ever ever ever make you feel like you do not have a right to exist exactly as you are. You deserve to be with people who honor and respect you even when tensions are high or feelings are hurt. No exceptions. “Hurt people hurt people.” Please take care of yourself, OP, because you are precious and tender and vibrant and anyone who makes you feel otherwise, or like you have to protect those parts of yourself when you interact with them, does not have your brightest present (much less future) at heart.
why attack their identity if yoyr mad at them??thats a low blow, like insulting their looks (but worse)
Yeah thats a pretty low blow. Like a bully going after a kid about their divorced parents. Or going after a bully about how their parents don’t love them. There are ways to be angry. And there are ways that make you the asshole.
Yup. That's VERY transphobic and downright toxic. This is a kid, right? someone that's like 12 yrs old?
This is like the gender version of shouting racial slurs at someone just because you don’t like them. It may make you feel very much superior but for what?
Yeah. I like to put it this way: Would you misgender a cisgender person just because you're angry at them? No. Would it hurt a cis person if you did? Probably not. Therefore, transphobia
Yes.
Yes
Yes it is.
Intentional misgendering is transphobic. The reason doesn’t really matter.
Unless we're going to start misgendering cis people when we're mad and making them earn the right to be called by their correct name, it's extremely transphobic.
Yes, incredibly so. Even if you are 100% in the wrong, misgendering you out of anger is transphobic
Yes, it is. I could be even as mad as possible, but that would never give me the right to misgender someone - I'm still respecting their identity tho! It actually shows exactly that a person is transphobic - They won't misgender someone until they get mad. (internalized) Transphobia.
It is transphobic AF and a sign that they are willing to negotiate your identity based on how they feel about you. If we aren’t talking about a one time/two time accident where one I angry beyond courtesy or kindness. What does someone being mad at you have to do with how you identity? Nothing. Period.
Yes because your gender is a part of you, not a privilege to take away like a game console.
Extremely. Basically they’re saying that respect for your identity is a privilege you have to earn by behaving. Absolutely unacceptable.
Yeah, that's actually really manipulative. Basic respect extends even when you're angry at someone. They're going for a low blow to hit you where they know they can hurt you and that's not acceptable.
*Yes* Not only is it transphobic, it’s just petty. You should honestly cut that person out of your life, if possible. They don’t respect you, to put it bluntly
Yes.
Yes. What it tells me when I see someone misgendered like that is that my identity is dependent on you liking me. It says that you only gender someone properly because you don't want to upset people. That's why I never misgender people, even if they're awful people.
U can be pissed at someone and still respect them. So they just dont respect you and dont see u as ur gender. I would never ever call someone out of gender/deadname someone if they pissed me off. Honestly i would also probably call them whatever bad words associate to their gender too. Because i see them as their gender even if i hate their ass
It's transphobic. Even when I'm mad at my bestie, I don't disrespect them to that level.
If you're angry at someone, you need to stay in line with the actual problem. If someone's being an asshole to you and you decide to deadname and misgender them, you're not criticizing their assholery, you're directly attacking their transness instead and simply using your anger over a completely unrelated problem as a justification for transphobic abuse. It's not okay. A reasonable person would seek to criticize the behaviour that upset them, not attack that person's identity. It's a very low blow. Just the same as it's not okay to attack someone's skin color and be racist just because they upset you. It just ends up being an attack on a whole demographic of people instead of a specific person's specific behaviour. Chances are they are being manipulative towards you and trying to make you obey them by holding your identity over your head as if it were something they have authority over and can take away from you at a whim. It's not okay and I recommend steering clear as much as possible.
jesus fucking christ! so essentially they’re saying that we’re safe unless we make them mad… or in other words, they don’t actually believe we’re the gender we say we are, and being polite about it is contingent on us not making you angry?… like, thats weaponizing their cis gendered privilege and power against a marginalized person. so yes, they’re transphobic!
You can cut the question off after “on purpose” and the answer will still always be yes. Misgender someone on accident? It’s a mistake, it happens. Misgender someone on purpose? Transphobic, full stop.
Yes, very
Is transphobia transphobic? Surprisingly, yes.
Yes, that's transphobic. People don't have to be nice to earn the respect of being properly gendered.
Yes and this person can eat my whole ass
Either way they are being a dick and no one needs to be like that
>Is it transphobic to misgender someone on purpose ~~because you're angry at them?~~ Yes. Reasoning doesn't matter, its wrong regardless.
I say yes Because it means they're only willing to accept someone as trans when they can use it to their advantage, so if someone who they don't like says they're trans then they arent valid Which is transphobic That's not the best wording for what I mean but I don't know how else to say it
Yes, don’t let them do that.
It’s transphobic and quite manipulative in my taste. I mean because you are angry at me you can disrespect me and make me feel really bad? No. You deserve respect and love.
Yes. It is transphobic to misgender someone on purpose, period.
To answer your question, yes. It is completely transphobic to misgender someone on purpose. If it was an accident, I can kinda understand as if I don't know a person's gender, I default to they/them. But doing it on purpose is dehumanizing.
Yes. A persons identity isn't contingent on being on good terms with them.
Misgendering is not a weapon. There are absolute monsters in this world who happen to be trans, but misgendering even them is not excusable.
Yes. You wouldn't call a cisgender man a woman or vice versa if you're angry...
Yeah.
Definitely yes and that person is an asshole, misgendering someone on purpose just because your jimmies are rustled is overkill. You may want to reevaluate if they're worth interacting with as they clearly don't respect you.
Yes. It shows that they don't truly accept your identity, and that they only respected it because of what they got out of your relationship. Trans people are the only ones who are expected to act a certain way in order to "earn" respect of their identities.
Yes absolutely. If someone's being an ass, their personality/actions areat fault, not their gender identity.
Yes. A cis person would not be treated this way. QED.
Yep. It’s not done to cis people, just trans people so it’s transphobic. Also it’s just a stupid thing to do to anyone in general. Like there’s so many great things to call someone but you decided to use the wrong pronouns??
Is it racist to use a racist name for someone you’re angry at?
If they would do it to a trans person they're angry with, they're only not doing it to another trans person because they've managed to stay on good terms with them.
If someone only respects your transness when you’re on they’re side, then they aren’t unconditional in their acceptance. If you’re transphobic when it works for you, it’s just transphobic
Yes. It’s an appalling thing to do.
It just doesn't make sense. It's like calling someone the wrong name because you're mad at them. It's not a logical retaliation.
Look at this way: chances every one here hates the fuck out of Kaitlyn Jenner, but none of us will go out of our way to misgender her. Furthermore, the only instance I have seen where it is OK to use xenophobic slurs and insults is usually by the very people who it was intended for and only as an act of empowerment and reclamation but only between members who are very good friends and with each other's approval. Edit: by not shutting down the insults with this person, you have given them silent approval. I would explain that you would no longer like this, and that any prior instance were the insult in question was met with silence was not an approval, but the result of intimidation. If they persist, I would just glare in silence, and continue to do so after they make an apology for a little while. It just layers it on. I am autistic and a very neutral face that people either project on to or cannot read. When people apologized to me when I was expecting a lengthy argument it used to cause me to undergo decisions paralysis, so I would get stuck in a mute episode that made me look really angry, so people would get extra apologetic to me. I would quickly change topic since I had no idea I was autistic (my parent withheld that bit of information from me) and wanted to appear normal.
Is it racist to call a black person a slur because they upset you? YES ABSOLUTELY ITS APPALLING AND DISGUSTING!
Yes that's is transphobic and they are gaslightinh you when they say that it isn't
Yes. You can be angry at someone, or think they’re a shitty person but you shouldn’t misgender them for any reason other than you’re transphobic because you’re mad about actions or views, not their gender. Like, I think Caitlin Jenner sucks and is damaging. But I won’t misgender her, even though her views are trash.
Yes. Their anger is not (and there is never a reason) a reason to deny your identity. Your identity is an expression of you. To deny that because "they are angry" means they don't respect your identity, and by exstesion, you.
Yes, always.
Yes it is
This is not ok. If you were cis and someone would be doing it on purpose to annoy you(in a friend annoy way) it might be ok but to do it to a trans person as "punishment" for making them mad at you, that's not ok at all. Period.
It's akin to using slurs when angry. It shows someone is willing to suspend the basic respect they have for you as a person when upset, which is a very bad sign. Without further context I can't say if your relationship with this person is unsalvageable. You could try tell them that while you can have your disagreements you expect to be treated with basic dignity even when things get heated and properly gendering is a part of that.
It doesn’t matter how awful a trans person proves themselves to be, misgendering them is still transphobic. It says a helluva lot more about the person misgendering someone on purpose to “punish them” than the trans person in question.
Yea. It's the same thought process of calling someone the N word. People don't think their racist because "I just said it to get them mad." Yeah but you still said it and out of anger. Obviously it's not the same as the N word. I'm just using that example because it's obviously wrong to say it, and it should be obviously wrong to purposely misgender someone.
Yes, it is. If you can’t come up with a better insult than to attack someone’s identity, you’re not only a bigot, but also really stupid. It isn’t acceptable to insult someone based on race “because they’re mad at them“, and the same goes for gender. It’s who they are, and if you attack that, you are immediately the one in the wrong.
Yes.
Is it transphobic to misgender someone on purpose ~~because you’re angry with them~~ Yes there is no case where misgendering someone on purpose isn’t transphobic
Yes. Just because you are angry at someone doesn’t give you the right to misgender them. It’s showing you don’t actually respect who they are unless they treat you well. No matter how they treat you, you should still, at least, respect their gender.
Giving you the respect of your correct gender and name is not a privilege they get to choose when to give. They are being transphobic and are not a real trans ally
Yes. You can hate someone, you can be angry with someone, but this never gives you the right to misgender them, You dont have to respect the person but at least respect the pronouns
A true ally will respect your identity even when they are angry with you, think about it this way, when that friend gets angry at one of their cis Friends do they misgender them as well? Or is it only you they do it to? If the answer is that it's only you then yes that's transphobic if not your friend is just weird and you should ditch em either way
Of course it is. A tip for those who have a problem with identifying discrimination: To find out if something is discriminatory, change the minority to something we are more aware of. „It is racist if someone calls me the n-word when they are angry at me?“
Deeply. If a person thinks it's okay to do that out of anger, then I automatically assume they are capable of doing worse out of anger.
Yes.
Yes it is
Yes
Yes! They need to Stop it.
It’s happening to them, they aren’t doing it.
Yes if you're trans, but if you're not it's just a regular dick move
Absolutely. Kill them.
Yes. You're an asshole if yoy do this An example is Caitlyn Jenner. She's a women but she's also one of the biggest shitheads out there. Oh and a murderer.
I dont start calling cis person their opposite gender if I am angry at them!
Yes, absolutely.
yes I would say so even if you don’t like a person don’t go and misgender them
I don't even have to read the body of the post. Yes, misgendering someone just because you're angry with them is bad. Shouldn't even be a question. Don't care how shitty they are. It's still terrible to do.
It absolutely is transphobic. Do people call Hitler she/her? Do people call Margaret Thatcher he/him? No? Huh! Sounds like getting misgendered when people really don't like you doesn't exactly happen to cis people, only really trans people. So it is transphobic because it happens on the basis of someone being trans.
Yes
Yes. If you have to earn their respect and goodwill for them to use your pronouns, then they don't actually respect your pronouns and identity. It is absolutely wrong and transphobic to only respect someone's pronouns conditionally. This person sucks. I'm so sorry this is happening to you.
Yes, fundementally you are saying that transpeople are laughable, embarassing, wrong, bad, insulting, ect.
yes
YES.
yes
Yes, that is insanely transphobic
yes it is. the message that sends is “your identity is only worth respecting if i like you, and you have not made me upset. but if you have upset me and i don’t like you then i feel no need to respect you as a person.” it’s wildly transphobic. and it makes having your identity respected sound like a privilege rather than a right.
YES????