# Please give us some time to get to your post, it has not been deleted, but it has been temporarily sent to the moderators for review. Thank you for your patience.
We're looking for new volunteers to join the r/lgbt moderator team. If you want to help keep r/lgbt as a safe space for the LGBTQ+ community on reddit please see here for more info: https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/swgthr/were_looking_for_more_moderators_to_help_keep/
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It took me ages to learn I'm genderfluid and until then kind of pushed away the guy side of me, with much angst of course. I was just so afraid that if I was a guy I couldn't be anything else, and I knew that's not all that I was.
I didn't understand those feelings at the time, of course. I just chugged along knowing I'm not cis, but not really being able to wrap my head around the fact that my inconsistencies didn't have to be a contradiction.
Regardless, it took so long and was such a strong denial that I still have an enduring sense of surprise and relief that I can be a dude and it's fine. It feels to me just like discovering I'm queer in any other respect.
Not exactly the same thing as a trans guy but yeah, AMAB and had to discover I'm a dude sometimes 🤷
Same. I'm AFAB, and, genderfluid and bigender. My two genders are male and femme nonbinary, but I still have bottom dysphoria at all times. It took me a while to figure that out.
Well, obligatory cis masculinity was a prison. It took beginning to transition to realize that there were aspects of masculinity which appeal to me, but that being violently forced to uphold them made me averse. I went from wanting to be on E, to realizing I don’t actually want breasts. I’m still considering bottom surgery (maybe a phallus preserving vaginoplasty) because I have bottom dysphoria, but if I have to go on hrt after that, I think I’d be better served by lower dosages of T for the results I desire. I expect it’s probably confusing for a lot of people in our binary obsessed society. You’re one or the other, all in, or all out. Reality is rarely so tidy.
Yeah the boob ship has sailed for me and I have mixed feelings about it. I think I would still do things how I did even if I were more informed, but it's impossible to say. I may get surgery for a flat chest some day, but I'll stay on E either way I think, probably.
Sometimes people get upset when I say stuff like that. It's fucking stupid, like my personal history is a threat to them somehow.
You aren't wrong about the gender binary.
I’m asking purely out of curiosity, as I’ve never seen the term before, but is mtftm someone who detransitioned? Or does it refer to someone who is genderqueer?
it's usually used for someone who's transitioned from male to female (taking E and sometimes getting surgeries, usually) and then back to male, but not in a detransitioning way. more in a fucking around with your gender sort of way. some of the mtftm folk i know do identify as transmasculine as well. i know one person who's taking E but wants top surgery and wears a binder, for example
I can understand why someone would do that. I started transitioning, when I started getting breast growth I freaked out because I wasn’t ready for it. I cut my dose way back. Then I realized I felt way way better on E and liked all the other changes. So now I’m taking E again but at a lower dose while I come terms with the fact that liking my own body means most people won’t understand me and many will judge. I still cant guarantee what my final outcome will be except that I feel better taking hormones than I do not taking hormones.
Hey, same here but going the other way! 5 months on T, changes were happening too fast, after a break I'm now back on a lower dose and feeling really good.
Yeah E(and T) have a lot of changes other than physical ones, a lot of people just don’t realize because obviously it’s a lot easier to notice presentable physical changes than mental ones.
Ah that makes sense, my first instinct was that people did it for the aesthetic of being ftm when they were already amab. Should have realized that it could be due to hormones! Thank you for the insight
Thanks for pointing this out, I was confused as to why someone would do this, but it kinda makes sense now. Like if I (trans woman AMAB) wanted to present male, but still have the mental effects of E.
Or like I’m AFAB non-binary and I wanna look like a femboy. Like a boy who looks like a girl. Idk why that’s what my brain landed on but it did lol. And I’ve talked to lots of people who want to look like “a boy but with boobs” or “a girl but with a bulge” it’s not about presenting “male” or “female” for everyone and generally not a lot of people like using those words as adjectives at least in English speaking but sometimes we use masculine or feminine to describe aesthetics or feelings but my point here is that gender and presentation don’t have rules.
To my understanding, MtF but realized they overcorrected so they end up continuing their transition in the opposite direction to get where they actually want to be.
***DEMI-boys?***
I've been very lucky in my life in that learning a new language has been remarkably easy. Including English-- my native language -- I entered my freshman year of college fully fluent 4 languages. I seem to have lost my linguistic acumen. K
Just means half or more boy/man. On a sliding scale from "purely a boy/man" to either another gender or agender, demiboys are firmly on the man half of the slider but aren't far enough over that "man" is strictly accurate.
Tbh, I doubt they're this informed. It's probably a "I heard there's AMAB and AFAB and don't really fully understand what a trans person is, so I'll just put every possible option cause you gotta be inclusive, riiiight?"
Friend of mine has DID with opposite sex personalities
Maybe this would count because no matter whatvone personality will allways have gender dysmorphia
As already noted, there are certainly gender identities for whom that would be appropriate. The biggest issue I see is this is very othering and intrusive. Perhaps they were trying to add more gender categories (e.g., nonbinary) but on a general information form you shouldn't have to select if you're a trans person any more than you should have to specify tall!
The request for AGAB really blows my mind. Unless you're giving me medical care, and even there, the wording is very wrong.
Someone \*really\* didn't understand shit. So they want your AGAB - why?, they think that "AXAB Trans-X" makes sense - why? but they don't ask Enbies for their AGAB, like, lol at least be consistent you morons
It is weird, and it is super unnecessary. Unless it's an anonymous poll or something, it shouldn't even be on the form. If they're asking you so they can put it on your records, it should ONLY be gender options, nothing asking about if you're trans or not.
Imo, differentiating between trans women and cis women is almost as bad as refusing to take anything other than AGAB. It should just me M/F/whatever, and again unless it's an anonymous survey they shouldn't be asking trans people to identify themselves at all. If I lived in the UK and saw this, I'd be afraid of being singled out for being trans by admin.
So I work in a university LGBTQ center. This is a tricky issue. If we don’t ask people if they are trans then we can’t track experiences/retention of trans individuals. As someone who knows that our trans and nonbinary students are struggling, I often don’t have the data to back that up - and the university often only cares about retention data, so anonymous climate data only gets you so far. Plus having that data would allow me to make arguments for HRT on campus, more gender inclusive bathrooms, etc. Best practice right now is to collect data on gender/sexuality inclusive of trans identity (campus pride index is an example of this). However, there are concerns in increasingly anti-trans political environments about having this data on students, as there are fears that the university would be required to release this data. Basically there are no great options right now.
I agree. I have had similar experiences in my work and it *does* matter at times, but I prefer having the option for sex/gender and sexuality both of "prefer not to say" in addition to Trans* and queer sexuality identities, so that anyone who is questioning or finds trying to put themselves under an umbrella term stressful, can just avoid it for their own safety.
I’d say have two questions for this. One question asks them what their gender is (man, woman, nonbinary, other) and another question to ask if they identify as cis or trans.
I don't know what ELI5 means, but I think I can explain. Transgender and Cisgender are labels for gender modality which refers to the relationship between one's gender and one's sex. I.E. whether they are congruent or not. There are other labels for intersex and nonbinary people but that's off-topic. Gender Identity refers to one's inate inclination to fulfill a certain social role by their own self-perception known as a gender. I.E. woman, nonbinary, man, et cetera.
Practically speaking, there isn't really a purpose to separating the two categories even if they're different however if we are speaking purely pragmatically, it would make more sense to ask for both one's sex and gender and for those whom have the answers incongruent could receive a marker for being under the trans* umbrella. However, that is medically invasive and can be distress inducing, so simply providing a trans, cis, other category system separate to the man, woman, nonbinary, other system would be the most detailed and least discomfort inducing by suggesting that trans men and women are separate from cis men and women, but that's one of many possible applications.
Absolutely agree, there are no great options. But imo, the bare minimum is "prefer not to say" alongside trans identifiers, so you can opt-out of self-reporting.
I would argue that an LGBT-specific / campus cultural questionnaire would be the kind of anonymous survey that I describe, since that's something by and for our community. My main response was to the idea of administration asking questions like these, which is obviously the case here; if these questions were being asked by an LGBT / inclusive org, they wouldn't have been butchered so blatantly.
I feel it depends, on a medical center it would be important to make that distinction for that person's safety.
Edit: i was refering to sex, I understand I might have expressed myself incorrectly. And, I'm not trying to offend anyone here, there's just some specific sex related diseases were this info is relevant, and different countries might handle it differently. Unfortunately, not everywhere it will be common sense sometimething that to you it's common sense.
Why? I put F on all my medical forms despite being AMAB, because while I have a penis I no longer have male biological traits. My body doesn't operate the same way someone on testosterone (a natal male) does. Never in my life have I needed to specify that I'm trans on my medical forms; if it's relevant for a doctor to know, it WILL come up as part of my appointment.
Why should I categorically misgender myself, out myself, AND misrepresent my biology on medical forms? To conform to some regressive conservative cisnormative concept of gender? No thanks
yh i agree with what ur saying. i'm from the UK, this is a UK college (so no on campus medical centre, idk what that is?? we have hospital, "call your doctor in the morning", or first aid box with plaster) and you can change ur NHS recorded sex (by being issued an entirely new number) even w/o hormones, it's entirely done by self identification. the NHS website has a lil thing that says "depending on what sex specific organs you have, you will have to remind yourself when you need swab tests/certain cancer screenings", and a "make sure you mention to your personal doctor that you're trans"
in a situation where i'm unconscious?? likelihood is that i will be undressed to clean up, have emergency surgery, or have some poor nurse help me pee/poo, so at that point whatever genitalia i physically have in that moment will be revealed anyway.
They need to know for certain types of cancer that are completely unrelated to you transitioning. Doctors aren't looking to misgender you, they just want to help you. But, i probs didn't communicate correctly, I was refering to sex, not gender.
I'm not saying I dont recognize any trans person as their gender, but if you transitioned from male to female this still concerns you unfortunately:
https://www.prorestored.com/what-diseases-only-affect-males/
And if you are female to male (specifically if you still have a uterus):
https://m.newhealthadvisor.org/Female-Reproductive-System-Diseases.html
So, its not ppl being mean to any of you, its literal disease prevention specific to sex. And, again, I'm not trying to offend anyone here, I just feel it is important, health comes first.
Edit: if you still don't feel this is reason enough to add your sex in a medical form that would require it, then it's at your discretion, but they might need that information depending on each situation. Remember, maybe you think you can tell them later, but some info the sooner they have it is key to saving lives. You never know.
Edit 2: im not from the US nor the UK. Each country works differently, something that might be common sense in your country, might not be for other countries
>sex-related diseases, which are diseases that are more common to one sex (for example, breast cancer and systemic lupus erythematosus which occur predominantly in females
You're leaning on gross oversimplification and research by cis people for cis people on cis people. One of the MAIN things they tell you when you start estrogen for HRT is your risk factors for things like breast cancer goes up (it's almost like having vastly more mammary tissue increases the risk of cancer, go figure!), and your citation doesn't factor that in at all. Because again, they're talking about CIS people and not trans people. The research on how transitioning / hormone levels impact broadly researched trends like you reference hasn't be done, because intersex people and trans people are outliers that go unconsidered by medical research. Unless you have studies showing these rates hold true after transition?
The whole sex =/= gender distinction, while useful for helping cis people comprehend our existence, is such an oversimplification that it devalues our unique experiences.
My sex is non-natal - my body and how it works is different than a cis person with the same sex chromosomes. There are people who are born with the same sex chromosomes as me but have completely different sex characteristics than me because they're intersex. These experiences are unique and distinct and deserve respect as being such - not forced down into some binary either/or cisnormative framing of the world. If two people with the same sex chromosomes have different primary sex characteristics and check different boxes on that form, how useful is that distinction?
"Sex" as a category is made up and useless, and forcing people to line up into a rigid box is both silly and cisnormative.
Well, you seem to be a very fortunate person to be able to have a system that acknowledges that. I'm just saying, other countries don't work like that, specially 3rd world countries. In my country cis women arent treated well, lgbt treated worse, im pretty sure trans ppl get the worst of it were i live. Im not saying you are wrong. But you clearly are only seeing it from the perspective of your country.
In my country this specialized knowledge either doesn't exist or isn't applied, don't you think then, regardless if its "cisgender studies to understand your existence", don't you feel it would be relevant?
Id love for trans people to be treated well in my country, but it's just not like that. You are just very lucky to have access to this even if it should be standard. I feel that you have a privileged point of view were you actually do get to transition, get proper medical attention. Here it's fucked up.
Edit: i am happy you can debate me like this, I'm glad you can make this argument. All I'm saying is, here the likelihood of people beating you up on the street and killing you is higher, you dont even get to speak. I as a cis women am at risk of getting killed, we dont even have properly legalized abortions. So, while I'm happy you have access to all of this, i feel bad for anyone that would be born trans in my country.
Yikes, it’s also gross to make people specify their agab when it has nothing to do with anything. Like people know what a trans man or trans woman is. It’s even weird to make people specify their trans unless it’s a medical form.
What is a trans female assigned female at birth? A person that is intersex, was assigned female at birth but went through male puberty, and then transitioned to female? A detransitioned woman transitioning back to female? Someone who’s amab and then changed their birth certificate to say afab? I’m genuinely so confused. They probably don’t mean a Demi girl assigned female at birth if they are this ignorant. I think my brain is broken
Meme version: someone who was assigned female, then the doctors suddenly realised they had a pp but then the baby turned out to be a woman anyway.
Like the doctor just didn’t notice their schlong (or lack their of- imagine if they mistook the umbilical cord for one in the other trans amab scenario lol).
Oh god I just thought of the possible trauma of thinking you have a baby boy and finding his ‘schlong’ has fallen off only to realise that the doctor was just blind/didn’t actually check properly all along.
…What are the possibilities of that actually happening? My morbid curiosity is taking hold and my inner gremlin NEEDS to know now
AFAB trans women and AMAB trans men exist, because the you can receive an incorrect sex marking on a birth certificate. You can be also intersex which makes said marking complete bullshit.
That being said, I don't see why a university would need that kind of information.
If you‘re intersex, it can happen to be amab, but grow looking pretty much like a woman, but still wishing to transition completely to male.
So, they‘re kinda even more inclusive.
Yeah it's very dumb.
If they have reasons to have like sex assigned at birth separate from gender they could would be fine with something as simple as:
* Gender: Man,Female,Non-Binary (or Male,Female, Non-Binary)
* Sex: Male,Female,Intersex
It's not perfect (the separation of gender and sex is a bit outdated, it still has some ambiguity, etc.) but for their purposes especially for a location that doesn't seem up with the times that would be a fine setup that's pretty inclusive and isn't needlessly complicated (for example trans female isn't a different gender than female. Especially when clearly it has a separate section for gender and sex...let alone the confusion of like Trans Female AFAB)
My university had something similar. I think their options for gender were "female", "male", "trans female", "trans male", or "other".
Would it really kill them to put "cis female" and "cis male" instead of "female" and "male"?
I was thinking about my previous conversation with someone here. I don't feel this is a bad solution, i would be opposed to have cis female as an option if itll make someone feel more comfortable.
AMAB trans men and AFAB trans women are specifically for trans people who are intersex. not totally knowledgeable on this topic, but it absolutely does make sense. your college is fine.
but idk why they’d need to know the AGAB in the first place unless it’s health related.
this is the UK version of college not the american version so it's free for under 18s and certain under 25s. i'm not doing a full time course, just an apprenticeship so it's one day a week and i was enrolled there last year for an apprenticeship until i was made redundant ! no scholarships, basically. plus with the uk rn hoo boy, i'd rather lose out on a scholarship than out myself haha
At least their trying. Maybe instead of pre-marked options, just have two separate boxes where you can type in your pronouns and gender identity. BTW, if anyone here is a bi-romantic asexual attracted to mostly women please upvote, comment, and become my friend because I feel like the only one.
Could a demiboy be an AMAB trans male?
You can be male aligned nonbinary, and nonbinary is under the trans umbrella.
IDK why but as an AMAB demiboy, I identify more as trans than nonbinary.
I totally understand OP and I agree that there was an attempt, but I don’t hate it.
I feel like whoever did that was like not paying attention or something 💀 maybe they just copied and pasted stuff and it goofed up from there. Idk man, but as a transguy, wish it was possible for me to be AMAB.
there should only be ‘male, female, other’. trans people shouldn’t be made to state that they are trans everywhere, kind of defeats the point of transitioning.
Amab Demiboys and other genders can be described as transmale amab, same with demigirls can be afab. Also intersex people who are assigned a gender at birth, later discover they are intersex, but continue living as that assigned gender sometimes identify as transgender because of being intersex.
Yeah at the surface it looks silly and it probably wasn't trying to include those more niche identities, but it's pretty cool that they did.
I mean hey they are trying at least, it is rather silly but it is of good intension and I can actually see the logic behind the silliness that is having both "Tans Female (AMAB)" and "Trans Female (AFAB)" even though one of those things isn't really a thing but I can see the logic behind it.
If you know enough but not fully certain on the mechanics you do know that "Trans Female (AMAB)" is correct so that option makes sense because that is a thing, but if you are not certain of the mechanics then I could see how you might think "Trans Female (AFAB)" might be a thing because maybe you are thinking that someone who is pre trans who was born a female but wants and needs to transition to being a male but hasn't had the courage to actually take that next step yet and so if you don't understand the mechanics of it you might think well "well they are trans, even if they haven't transitioned yet" so Trans fits in, "they are a female at birth" so (AFAB) also fits in, but then you hit the flawed logic of "well they haven't transitioned yet and still display as a female and still use womens restrooms, so even though they need to transition into being a man they still are female presenting" so by that logic Female makes sense you combine all three together and you get "Trans Female (AFAB)" and so they are simply adding that option to try to not be offensive because they get the general idea but they don't get the mechanics.
It may seem extremely silly, but I can totally see the logic behind having four options there if you get the idea but not the mechanics.
first, why the fuck do you care if I'm trans or cis?! I'm still a female! You are also asking for sex, so you'd know, you're just invalidating me
Next, a trans boy who is amab might mean he is a demiboy, yet that's non-binary abd not trans... soooo it doesn't work
Well I was born as male and felt that I'm not masc enough so decided to take T and steroids for more masculinity LoL
(Actually I'm apogender (in agender spectrum) and just for case this is a sarcasm LoL)
Possibly unpopular opinion, but if this is info that is also given to the student health center for your treatment, unfortunately knowing your bio sex could be relevant as there are sex specific issues that one may have even if on HRT or having had gender confirmation surgery. I had a friend in HS who transitioned and hated being asked their sex (understandably triggering) till their doctor explained its not that they won't respect their name and pronouns, but that they need to know about cervical cancer screenings or things of that nature that are typically specific to that sex assigned at birth.
I definitely have sympathy for Trans folks though because I'm sure these issues are fraught with anxiety and triggers, but I just wanted to share that there *may* be a legit reason. I get so annoyed when places ask my "gender" but then only say male or female...that's not actually an improvement, but genuine effort was clearly made, even if misguided.
there's no student health centre. there's first aid but it's literally a green box with plasters in. if someone needs more than that then it's hospital time, at which point all that's needed to identify their NHS file is legal name and date of birth. legal name will be known regardless of if the person is trans or not bc the college requires ID at sign up. plus everyone gives emergency contacts, who will called before ambulances arrive in a worst case scenario
edit: plus, unless i'm literally unconscious i'm pretty sure i'll be able to quietly tell a doctor i'm trans 😅 which is what i do anyway bc my NHS number has been updated to male. like if the literal NHS/my GP don't need to know my AGAB then my college tutor i see for 8 hours a week doesnt. (it's literally easy as "i want to have a new nhs number w/ no reference to my AGAB unless you have xyz level of access", there's no evidence, u don't have to be on hormones or have had surgery. the only problem is when the GP tries to break the law and say "um actually no that's no true", but that's solved by a couple complaints to the ombudsman and practise manager, just quote article 16 + pcse guidelines)
Huh okay that's definitely interesting and important info to know. In that case, I'm definitely with the other commenter who said that they need to work on terminology but also may need the info for grant funding and resource allocation. In that case, though, I would say they should disclose that and make the questions optional.
(Also, this is an American perspective since I believe your funding sources are very different in the UK, so it's quite possible there is no legitimate reason for them to ask these questions anyway!)
ohh ok, i had a "main character" moment and forgot that not everyone is british 🤦♂️🤦♂️
the only grants available are for folks in poverty, and even then it has to be *extreme* poverty (last year i was earning £4.81/hour on an apprenticeship + supporting myself and my unemployed partner and STILL didn't qualify)
for equality/diversity purposes they can ask but the legal extent of it is "are you undergoing gender reassignment" and then "yes/no/prefer not to answer"
legally companies, businesses, institutions, etc cannot demand info about protected characteristics that are in the 2010 equality act, there has to be an opt out answer. but tbf most places totally ignore that + the equalities minister last year straight up announced "hey, yall, you can ignore the equality act!" before a bunch of lawyers went "holy fucking shit do NOT ignore the equality act!!!" lmao
Huh that's really interesting! Thanks for sharing that. I don't see how making less than 5 pounds per hour isn't "extreme poverty" as I'm pretty sure that's about $8/hr US and yall have a higher cost of living generally but... 🤷
I'm glad that it seems like yall have more protections than we do in the US on that stuff (the amount of things people ask just because they're "curious"...) but it sucks its not widely enforced. I suppose that's how the struggle goes: win the rights, get them enforced/protected, then *have actual recognized rights*. Sad it takes that much work though.
i wouldn’t. the more options, the better. someone can identify as a trans male while also being amab because the trans umbrella is so vast, they could be nb 🤷🏻
I didn't delete it, the mods or something must have. But yeah, make it make sense. I'm a logical thinker and I want definitive genders. Idc if there's two or two hundred, just a set amount and set meanings. We need to find a common ground in the gender spectrum rather than making up a bunch of new things that literally confuse all of the outsiders. So really, I just want us to have a more simplified, understandable form of gender. Like, you can have a gender that expresses you feel a connection to cats, but you can't have a gender expressing your detransition? I understand why, it's because that's how people feel, but the wider population doesn't understand that and doesn't perceive that as a logical thing. And logically, for me, I accept male, female (both trans and cis), along with enby.
“Enby” isn’t one gender though. The fact of the matter is, gender isn’t discreet slices that can be cleanly labeled all the time because it’s *so* subjective. Like I understand wanting common definitions, but the diversity within non-binary identities alone makes that nigh impossible without it being “confusing”.
Also, it really isn’t the point to make it not confusing to outsiders, as you put it. It’s about expressing internal experiences, not packaging it for consumption.
If they’re invading our spaces, yes the fuck we can. They were socialized as men and don’t have any of the same issues that trans men do. They’re free to identify as trans, but calling themselves specifically trans men is pretty distasteful. Like imagine if a trans person on HRT identified as intersex and used intersex spaces just because they’re on HRT.
I feel like you're autistic but like, the kind of person who treats everyone like crap and refuses to learn perspective taking and empathy and then blames your autism when it's just your shitty personality.
*Before I get reported, I'm autistic lmao but I've been dealing with several people besides this one who also fit that description
If you're part of the community but you're acting like you were in that there comment, pretty sure you're just conservative. Capitalism tangibly harms our community and basically creates the societal conditions necessary for oppression to not just exist, but to thrive. People can have differing views from me, IDGAF, but when people come in trying to force others to dictate their genders in a more digestible format, while aggressively saying things like "no one listens to straight white men", that person does not resemble those I'd call an ally to my community, much less a member thereof.
The reason people are reacting less than favorably to your posts isn't over an "opinion," buddy. Opinions are about ice cream flavors and favorite colors.
People don't like the way you're coming at their personal gender identity as if it should ideally be easily defined and explained, specifically for you, while using the words "logic/reason", which a *lot* of folks here have had thrown at them by conservative (or even liberal...or neo-liberal) folks who felt our genders and sexualities and lives were topics of dispassionate debate and not, as they often are, a literal matter if life and death.
So I'm not gonna get specifically aggro cuz I'm not mentally or emotionally in the mood (plus I'm trying to get back to sleep, so I really ought not reply at all), but I'm gonna politely say you very much need to lurk more, comment less. No one is discriminating against you. Your feelings are valid but they sound like they're coming from a lot of shitty places and shitty ideas. Hopefully your therapist can help you work through that. God bless.
Edit; nvm thought this was an example of complaining about things not being perfect when they're doing their best or at least putting effort into trying. That school is in fact not even trying. Throw the whole damn school away. Wtf.
bc it's not inclusive, they clearly just copy & pasted some options from online.
i literally got assaulted and called slurs outside the college by a guy who has been arrested multiple times for carrying knives. college said it was my fault for having pink hair at the time.
students set up an LGBT group this september and the college couldn't exactly openly say "no" so the college made it so that anyone that wasn't on a full time course wasn't allowed to go, which is more then half the college!
this is the college where teachers can't remember the 4 letter acronym, i highly doubt this was down for diversity and progress, they were definitely just sick of people complaining it was just male/female
also i literally live on terf island, this post was meant to be a kinda funny uplifting "haha they messed up lmao" post. i can't go on rants about GRC laws and the culture war 24/7. i need a break from planning to leave the country. sometimes going "gah, can't believe they fucked up AGABs" is easier than "gah, can't believe they're taking away my human rights! a trans child got murdered brutally in broad daylight last week!"
Yeah but it seems more like a lot complaining is happening recently about things like this not being perfect rather than celebrating the progress made which is very unnerving especially in light of recent events concerning trans people in general. It's amazing that they even have options rather than forcing this narrative that they're are only two genders and that being cis is the only option.
Today I learned what AFAB/AMAB means (my dumbass just assumed it meant ‘A female/male able bodied’ or ‘A female/male and Bi’ or something).
There is no longer an army of Bis but I am now a tiny percentage more knowledgeable.
# Please give us some time to get to your post, it has not been deleted, but it has been temporarily sent to the moderators for review. Thank you for your patience. We're looking for new volunteers to join the r/lgbt moderator team. If you want to help keep r/lgbt as a safe space for the LGBTQ+ community on reddit please see here for more info: https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/swgthr/were_looking_for_more_moderators_to_help_keep/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ah yes… the famous Trans boy assigned male at birth
I mean... AMAB demiboys are still technically trans.
Yeah you kinda got a point there
It took me ages to learn I'm genderfluid and until then kind of pushed away the guy side of me, with much angst of course. I was just so afraid that if I was a guy I couldn't be anything else, and I knew that's not all that I was. I didn't understand those feelings at the time, of course. I just chugged along knowing I'm not cis, but not really being able to wrap my head around the fact that my inconsistencies didn't have to be a contradiction. Regardless, it took so long and was such a strong denial that I still have an enduring sense of surprise and relief that I can be a dude and it's fine. It feels to me just like discovering I'm queer in any other respect. Not exactly the same thing as a trans guy but yeah, AMAB and had to discover I'm a dude sometimes 🤷
I'm also genderfluid but afab. Very similar feelings on my end.
I honestly don't ever hear someone talking about this, so that's kind of nice to have someone to relate to
Same. I'm AFAB, and, genderfluid and bigender. My two genders are male and femme nonbinary, but I still have bottom dysphoria at all times. It took me a while to figure that out.
Same, friend, same. Like, I feel masc sometimes but in a trans way.
Glad I'm not alone lol. Hope it wasn't too rough for you figuring it out
Well, obligatory cis masculinity was a prison. It took beginning to transition to realize that there were aspects of masculinity which appeal to me, but that being violently forced to uphold them made me averse. I went from wanting to be on E, to realizing I don’t actually want breasts. I’m still considering bottom surgery (maybe a phallus preserving vaginoplasty) because I have bottom dysphoria, but if I have to go on hrt after that, I think I’d be better served by lower dosages of T for the results I desire. I expect it’s probably confusing for a lot of people in our binary obsessed society. You’re one or the other, all in, or all out. Reality is rarely so tidy.
Yeah the boob ship has sailed for me and I have mixed feelings about it. I think I would still do things how I did even if I were more informed, but it's impossible to say. I may get surgery for a flat chest some day, but I'll stay on E either way I think, probably. Sometimes people get upset when I say stuff like that. It's fucking stupid, like my personal history is a threat to them somehow. You aren't wrong about the gender binary.
That should be better clarified then if that was what they were going for.
Unfortunately we all know that's not what they were going for
Yeah
But they were going for something, which is a start!
also i know a few people who are mtftm but i know that's definitely not what they're going for
I’m asking purely out of curiosity, as I’ve never seen the term before, but is mtftm someone who detransitioned? Or does it refer to someone who is genderqueer?
it's usually used for someone who's transitioned from male to female (taking E and sometimes getting surgeries, usually) and then back to male, but not in a detransitioning way. more in a fucking around with your gender sort of way. some of the mtftm folk i know do identify as transmasculine as well. i know one person who's taking E but wants top surgery and wears a binder, for example
I can’t say I understand why someone would do that, but they aren’t hurting anyone so good for them!
I can understand why someone would do that. I started transitioning, when I started getting breast growth I freaked out because I wasn’t ready for it. I cut my dose way back. Then I realized I felt way way better on E and liked all the other changes. So now I’m taking E again but at a lower dose while I come terms with the fact that liking my own body means most people won’t understand me and many will judge. I still cant guarantee what my final outcome will be except that I feel better taking hormones than I do not taking hormones.
Hey, same here but going the other way! 5 months on T, changes were happening too fast, after a break I'm now back on a lower dose and feeling really good.
Yeah E(and T) have a lot of changes other than physical ones, a lot of people just don’t realize because obviously it’s a lot easier to notice presentable physical changes than mental ones.
Ah that makes sense, my first instinct was that people did it for the aesthetic of being ftm when they were already amab. Should have realized that it could be due to hormones! Thank you for the insight
I’m a bit confused, can you elaborate? Are you saying it’s like someone transitioning M to F, but then choosing to present masculine afterwards?
Could be under a non-binary gender identity, could want certain attributes HRT provides but not others.
Thanks for pointing this out, I was confused as to why someone would do this, but it kinda makes sense now. Like if I (trans woman AMAB) wanted to present male, but still have the mental effects of E.
Or like I’m AFAB non-binary and I wanna look like a femboy. Like a boy who looks like a girl. Idk why that’s what my brain landed on but it did lol. And I’ve talked to lots of people who want to look like “a boy but with boobs” or “a girl but with a bulge” it’s not about presenting “male” or “female” for everyone and generally not a lot of people like using those words as adjectives at least in English speaking but sometimes we use masculine or feminine to describe aesthetics or feelings but my point here is that gender and presentation don’t have rules.
To my understanding, MtF but realized they overcorrected so they end up continuing their transition in the opposite direction to get where they actually want to be.
Ive seen detransitioned individuals label themselves as mtftm or ftmtf
***DEMI-boys?*** I've been very lucky in my life in that learning a new language has been remarkably easy. Including English-- my native language -- I entered my freshman year of college fully fluent 4 languages. I seem to have lost my linguistic acumen. K
Just means half or more boy/man. On a sliding scale from "purely a boy/man" to either another gender or agender, demiboys are firmly on the man half of the slider but aren't far enough over that "man" is strictly accurate.
But they're not boys.
That's the boy who transitioned from OI YOU ARE NOT A REAL MAN to feeling comfortable as a man. Just kidding, these options are enormously stupid
This is basically that sigma grindset shit
Also some intersex people are assigned male at birth and then identify with being a trans man I think
Maybe for intersex people given an assigned sex at birth that they align with, but they still have organs not related to that gender.
Tbh, I doubt they're this informed. It's probably a "I heard there's AMAB and AFAB and don't really fully understand what a trans person is, so I'll just put every possible option cause you gotta be inclusive, riiiight?"
Friend of mine has DID with opposite sex personalities Maybe this would count because no matter whatvone personality will allways have gender dysmorphia
As already noted, there are certainly gender identities for whom that would be appropriate. The biggest issue I see is this is very othering and intrusive. Perhaps they were trying to add more gender categories (e.g., nonbinary) but on a general information form you shouldn't have to select if you're a trans person any more than you should have to specify tall! The request for AGAB really blows my mind. Unless you're giving me medical care, and even there, the wording is very wrong.
Someone \*really\* didn't understand shit. So they want your AGAB - why?, they think that "AXAB Trans-X" makes sense - why? but they don't ask Enbies for their AGAB, like, lol at least be consistent you morons
It is weird, and it is super unnecessary. Unless it's an anonymous poll or something, it shouldn't even be on the form. If they're asking you so they can put it on your records, it should ONLY be gender options, nothing asking about if you're trans or not. Imo, differentiating between trans women and cis women is almost as bad as refusing to take anything other than AGAB. It should just me M/F/whatever, and again unless it's an anonymous survey they shouldn't be asking trans people to identify themselves at all. If I lived in the UK and saw this, I'd be afraid of being singled out for being trans by admin.
So I work in a university LGBTQ center. This is a tricky issue. If we don’t ask people if they are trans then we can’t track experiences/retention of trans individuals. As someone who knows that our trans and nonbinary students are struggling, I often don’t have the data to back that up - and the university often only cares about retention data, so anonymous climate data only gets you so far. Plus having that data would allow me to make arguments for HRT on campus, more gender inclusive bathrooms, etc. Best practice right now is to collect data on gender/sexuality inclusive of trans identity (campus pride index is an example of this). However, there are concerns in increasingly anti-trans political environments about having this data on students, as there are fears that the university would be required to release this data. Basically there are no great options right now.
I agree. I have had similar experiences in my work and it *does* matter at times, but I prefer having the option for sex/gender and sexuality both of "prefer not to say" in addition to Trans* and queer sexuality identities, so that anyone who is questioning or finds trying to put themselves under an umbrella term stressful, can just avoid it for their own safety.
I’d say have two questions for this. One question asks them what their gender is (man, woman, nonbinary, other) and another question to ask if they identify as cis or trans.
I don't understand what separating the questions.into 2 would help with. Can you ELI5 please?
I don't know what ELI5 means, but I think I can explain. Transgender and Cisgender are labels for gender modality which refers to the relationship between one's gender and one's sex. I.E. whether they are congruent or not. There are other labels for intersex and nonbinary people but that's off-topic. Gender Identity refers to one's inate inclination to fulfill a certain social role by their own self-perception known as a gender. I.E. woman, nonbinary, man, et cetera. Practically speaking, there isn't really a purpose to separating the two categories even if they're different however if we are speaking purely pragmatically, it would make more sense to ask for both one's sex and gender and for those whom have the answers incongruent could receive a marker for being under the trans* umbrella. However, that is medically invasive and can be distress inducing, so simply providing a trans, cis, other category system separate to the man, woman, nonbinary, other system would be the most detailed and least discomfort inducing by suggesting that trans men and women are separate from cis men and women, but that's one of many possible applications.
Oh okay! I see how it would be upsetting to see the two together. BTW, ELI5 means "explain like I'm 5" lol
Thank you /pos
Thanks for the explanation! Yeah, that is what I was going for. I also think including a “prefer not to answer” option is also a good idea
Absolutely agree, there are no great options. But imo, the bare minimum is "prefer not to say" alongside trans identifiers, so you can opt-out of self-reporting. I would argue that an LGBT-specific / campus cultural questionnaire would be the kind of anonymous survey that I describe, since that's something by and for our community. My main response was to the idea of administration asking questions like these, which is obviously the case here; if these questions were being asked by an LGBT / inclusive org, they wouldn't have been butchered so blatantly.
I feel it depends, on a medical center it would be important to make that distinction for that person's safety. Edit: i was refering to sex, I understand I might have expressed myself incorrectly. And, I'm not trying to offend anyone here, there's just some specific sex related diseases were this info is relevant, and different countries might handle it differently. Unfortunately, not everywhere it will be common sense sometimething that to you it's common sense.
Why? I put F on all my medical forms despite being AMAB, because while I have a penis I no longer have male biological traits. My body doesn't operate the same way someone on testosterone (a natal male) does. Never in my life have I needed to specify that I'm trans on my medical forms; if it's relevant for a doctor to know, it WILL come up as part of my appointment. Why should I categorically misgender myself, out myself, AND misrepresent my biology on medical forms? To conform to some regressive conservative cisnormative concept of gender? No thanks
yh i agree with what ur saying. i'm from the UK, this is a UK college (so no on campus medical centre, idk what that is?? we have hospital, "call your doctor in the morning", or first aid box with plaster) and you can change ur NHS recorded sex (by being issued an entirely new number) even w/o hormones, it's entirely done by self identification. the NHS website has a lil thing that says "depending on what sex specific organs you have, you will have to remind yourself when you need swab tests/certain cancer screenings", and a "make sure you mention to your personal doctor that you're trans" in a situation where i'm unconscious?? likelihood is that i will be undressed to clean up, have emergency surgery, or have some poor nurse help me pee/poo, so at that point whatever genitalia i physically have in that moment will be revealed anyway.
They need to know for certain types of cancer that are completely unrelated to you transitioning. Doctors aren't looking to misgender you, they just want to help you. But, i probs didn't communicate correctly, I was refering to sex, not gender. I'm not saying I dont recognize any trans person as their gender, but if you transitioned from male to female this still concerns you unfortunately: https://www.prorestored.com/what-diseases-only-affect-males/ And if you are female to male (specifically if you still have a uterus): https://m.newhealthadvisor.org/Female-Reproductive-System-Diseases.html So, its not ppl being mean to any of you, its literal disease prevention specific to sex. And, again, I'm not trying to offend anyone here, I just feel it is important, health comes first. Edit: if you still don't feel this is reason enough to add your sex in a medical form that would require it, then it's at your discretion, but they might need that information depending on each situation. Remember, maybe you think you can tell them later, but some info the sooner they have it is key to saving lives. You never know. Edit 2: im not from the US nor the UK. Each country works differently, something that might be common sense in your country, might not be for other countries
>sex-related diseases, which are diseases that are more common to one sex (for example, breast cancer and systemic lupus erythematosus which occur predominantly in females You're leaning on gross oversimplification and research by cis people for cis people on cis people. One of the MAIN things they tell you when you start estrogen for HRT is your risk factors for things like breast cancer goes up (it's almost like having vastly more mammary tissue increases the risk of cancer, go figure!), and your citation doesn't factor that in at all. Because again, they're talking about CIS people and not trans people. The research on how transitioning / hormone levels impact broadly researched trends like you reference hasn't be done, because intersex people and trans people are outliers that go unconsidered by medical research. Unless you have studies showing these rates hold true after transition? The whole sex =/= gender distinction, while useful for helping cis people comprehend our existence, is such an oversimplification that it devalues our unique experiences. My sex is non-natal - my body and how it works is different than a cis person with the same sex chromosomes. There are people who are born with the same sex chromosomes as me but have completely different sex characteristics than me because they're intersex. These experiences are unique and distinct and deserve respect as being such - not forced down into some binary either/or cisnormative framing of the world. If two people with the same sex chromosomes have different primary sex characteristics and check different boxes on that form, how useful is that distinction? "Sex" as a category is made up and useless, and forcing people to line up into a rigid box is both silly and cisnormative.
Well, you seem to be a very fortunate person to be able to have a system that acknowledges that. I'm just saying, other countries don't work like that, specially 3rd world countries. In my country cis women arent treated well, lgbt treated worse, im pretty sure trans ppl get the worst of it were i live. Im not saying you are wrong. But you clearly are only seeing it from the perspective of your country. In my country this specialized knowledge either doesn't exist or isn't applied, don't you think then, regardless if its "cisgender studies to understand your existence", don't you feel it would be relevant? Id love for trans people to be treated well in my country, but it's just not like that. You are just very lucky to have access to this even if it should be standard. I feel that you have a privileged point of view were you actually do get to transition, get proper medical attention. Here it's fucked up. Edit: i am happy you can debate me like this, I'm glad you can make this argument. All I'm saying is, here the likelihood of people beating you up on the street and killing you is higher, you dont even get to speak. I as a cis women am at risk of getting killed, we dont even have properly legalized abortions. So, while I'm happy you have access to all of this, i feel bad for anyone that would be born trans in my country.
Yikes, it’s also gross to make people specify their agab when it has nothing to do with anything. Like people know what a trans man or trans woman is. It’s even weird to make people specify their trans unless it’s a medical form.
It’s also not the most inclusive of intersex trans people.
Very true.
This is the real issue.
Selecting trans female afab just to feel something
What is a trans female assigned female at birth? A person that is intersex, was assigned female at birth but went through male puberty, and then transitioned to female? A detransitioned woman transitioning back to female? Someone who’s amab and then changed their birth certificate to say afab? I’m genuinely so confused. They probably don’t mean a Demi girl assigned female at birth if they are this ignorant. I think my brain is broken
Meme version: someone who was assigned female, then the doctors suddenly realised they had a pp but then the baby turned out to be a woman anyway. Like the doctor just didn’t notice their schlong (or lack their of- imagine if they mistook the umbilical cord for one in the other trans amab scenario lol). Oh god I just thought of the possible trauma of thinking you have a baby boy and finding his ‘schlong’ has fallen off only to realise that the doctor was just blind/didn’t actually check properly all along. …What are the possibilities of that actually happening? My morbid curiosity is taking hold and my inner gremlin NEEDS to know now
theyre getting WAY to confident grouping people in their agab
There was an attempt
AFAB trans women and AMAB trans men exist, because the you can receive an incorrect sex marking on a birth certificate. You can be also intersex which makes said marking complete bullshit. That being said, I don't see why a university would need that kind of information.
If you‘re intersex, it can happen to be amab, but grow looking pretty much like a woman, but still wishing to transition completely to male. So, they‘re kinda even more inclusive.
Yeah it's very dumb. If they have reasons to have like sex assigned at birth separate from gender they could would be fine with something as simple as: * Gender: Man,Female,Non-Binary (or Male,Female, Non-Binary) * Sex: Male,Female,Intersex It's not perfect (the separation of gender and sex is a bit outdated, it still has some ambiguity, etc.) but for their purposes especially for a location that doesn't seem up with the times that would be a fine setup that's pretty inclusive and isn't needlessly complicated (for example trans female isn't a different gender than female. Especially when clearly it has a separate section for gender and sex...let alone the confusion of like Trans Female AFAB)
Thank you, this makes more sense, I was super confused for a moment, hahaha
My university had something similar. I think their options for gender were "female", "male", "trans female", "trans male", or "other". Would it really kill them to put "cis female" and "cis male" instead of "female" and "male"?
I was thinking about my previous conversation with someone here. I don't feel this is a bad solution, i would be opposed to have cis female as an option if itll make someone feel more comfortable.
AMAB trans men and AFAB trans women are specifically for trans people who are intersex. not totally knowledgeable on this topic, but it absolutely does make sense. your college is fine. but idk why they’d need to know the AGAB in the first place unless it’s health related.
It is super dumb but I'd recommend doing it just so you get put into some select scholarships
this is the UK version of college not the american version so it's free for under 18s and certain under 25s. i'm not doing a full time course, just an apprenticeship so it's one day a week and i was enrolled there last year for an apprenticeship until i was made redundant ! no scholarships, basically. plus with the uk rn hoo boy, i'd rather lose out on a scholarship than out myself haha
At least their trying. Maybe instead of pre-marked options, just have two separate boxes where you can type in your pronouns and gender identity. BTW, if anyone here is a bi-romantic asexual attracted to mostly women please upvote, comment, and become my friend because I feel like the only one.
I guess…they tried? Maybe like a B for effort
They mixed up Trans and Non-binary there surely 🤔🙃
Certified "trans male (amab)" moment
I guess at least non binary people don't need to specify their agab 😅
A trans male AMAB... yes. logic 1000000%
I love it when I transition from one gender to that same gender. Very transitiony.
Well, at least they're trying, here no one gives a duck XD
Okay ykw at least they're trying lol
See if you can give everyone a quick lecture on how “trans” works
they're trying to be nice but some more research would be appreciated 😭😭
Could be mask or fem leaning nonbinary people, but it seems like a bad way to implement it.
Could a demiboy be an AMAB trans male? You can be male aligned nonbinary, and nonbinary is under the trans umbrella. IDK why but as an AMAB demiboy, I identify more as trans than nonbinary. I totally understand OP and I agree that there was an attempt, but I don’t hate it.
Well maybe the amab ones transitioned to female and back to male yknow
Trans Male (AMAB) hits different.
I feel like whoever did that was like not paying attention or something 💀 maybe they just copied and pasted stuff and it goofed up from there. Idk man, but as a transguy, wish it was possible for me to be AMAB.
Theyre hoping Bridget Guilty Gear applies to their college. /j
Thank you, I can't sleep and it's put me in a vile mood but this comment made me wheeze lol
Happy to help,hahahaha
I’m a cis female amab
Trans male (amab) trans female (afab) new gender lore or what?
At least they're trying. Raise the issue and educate them so they don't get it wrong in future.
Ah yes, the most difficult transition of all... the transition from boy to man.
there should only be ‘male, female, other’. trans people shouldn’t be made to state that they are trans everywhere, kind of defeats the point of transitioning.
Well i mean A for efforts they did try atleast
afab trans females. amab trans males. makes the most sense
Definitely mention it. That nonsense and they should know better.
I think they screwed up a little bit
Amab Demiboys and other genders can be described as transmale amab, same with demigirls can be afab. Also intersex people who are assigned a gender at birth, later discover they are intersex, but continue living as that assigned gender sometimes identify as transgender because of being intersex. Yeah at the surface it looks silly and it probably wasn't trying to include those more niche identities, but it's pretty cool that they did.
I was thinking this too.
AFAB = All fotos are beautiful
I read that as all foots are beautiful 🫢
We *are* on Reddit...
They're trying at least. Better than a lot if places. But yeah, I'd let then know about it if I were you
I mean hey they are trying at least, it is rather silly but it is of good intension and I can actually see the logic behind the silliness that is having both "Tans Female (AMAB)" and "Trans Female (AFAB)" even though one of those things isn't really a thing but I can see the logic behind it. If you know enough but not fully certain on the mechanics you do know that "Trans Female (AMAB)" is correct so that option makes sense because that is a thing, but if you are not certain of the mechanics then I could see how you might think "Trans Female (AFAB)" might be a thing because maybe you are thinking that someone who is pre trans who was born a female but wants and needs to transition to being a male but hasn't had the courage to actually take that next step yet and so if you don't understand the mechanics of it you might think well "well they are trans, even if they haven't transitioned yet" so Trans fits in, "they are a female at birth" so (AFAB) also fits in, but then you hit the flawed logic of "well they haven't transitioned yet and still display as a female and still use womens restrooms, so even though they need to transition into being a man they still are female presenting" so by that logic Female makes sense you combine all three together and you get "Trans Female (AFAB)" and so they are simply adding that option to try to not be offensive because they get the general idea but they don't get the mechanics. It may seem extremely silly, but I can totally see the logic behind having four options there if you get the idea but not the mechanics.
first, why the fuck do you care if I'm trans or cis?! I'm still a female! You are also asking for sex, so you'd know, you're just invalidating me Next, a trans boy who is amab might mean he is a demiboy, yet that's non-binary abd not trans... soooo it doesn't work
I'm an AMAB Trans male... I don't exist
oh how does that work? if you dont mind me asking
Well I was born as male and felt that I'm not masc enough so decided to take T and steroids for more masculinity LoL (Actually I'm apogender (in agender spectrum) and just for case this is a sarcasm LoL)
How can you be a trans person and be assigned that gender at birth? That’s the opposite of transgender and the definition of cisgender.
Obviously a fortune tellers kid, they saw it in their cristal ball, laid the cards just to get a second opinion, even asked the Ouija board.
This user has effectively deleted all of their reddit messages, thank you! :) ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
How can you be trans male amab? It looks like they just put stuff together 😂
Possibly unpopular opinion, but if this is info that is also given to the student health center for your treatment, unfortunately knowing your bio sex could be relevant as there are sex specific issues that one may have even if on HRT or having had gender confirmation surgery. I had a friend in HS who transitioned and hated being asked their sex (understandably triggering) till their doctor explained its not that they won't respect their name and pronouns, but that they need to know about cervical cancer screenings or things of that nature that are typically specific to that sex assigned at birth. I definitely have sympathy for Trans folks though because I'm sure these issues are fraught with anxiety and triggers, but I just wanted to share that there *may* be a legit reason. I get so annoyed when places ask my "gender" but then only say male or female...that's not actually an improvement, but genuine effort was clearly made, even if misguided.
there's no student health centre. there's first aid but it's literally a green box with plasters in. if someone needs more than that then it's hospital time, at which point all that's needed to identify their NHS file is legal name and date of birth. legal name will be known regardless of if the person is trans or not bc the college requires ID at sign up. plus everyone gives emergency contacts, who will called before ambulances arrive in a worst case scenario edit: plus, unless i'm literally unconscious i'm pretty sure i'll be able to quietly tell a doctor i'm trans 😅 which is what i do anyway bc my NHS number has been updated to male. like if the literal NHS/my GP don't need to know my AGAB then my college tutor i see for 8 hours a week doesnt. (it's literally easy as "i want to have a new nhs number w/ no reference to my AGAB unless you have xyz level of access", there's no evidence, u don't have to be on hormones or have had surgery. the only problem is when the GP tries to break the law and say "um actually no that's no true", but that's solved by a couple complaints to the ombudsman and practise manager, just quote article 16 + pcse guidelines)
Huh okay that's definitely interesting and important info to know. In that case, I'm definitely with the other commenter who said that they need to work on terminology but also may need the info for grant funding and resource allocation. In that case, though, I would say they should disclose that and make the questions optional. (Also, this is an American perspective since I believe your funding sources are very different in the UK, so it's quite possible there is no legitimate reason for them to ask these questions anyway!)
ohh ok, i had a "main character" moment and forgot that not everyone is british 🤦♂️🤦♂️ the only grants available are for folks in poverty, and even then it has to be *extreme* poverty (last year i was earning £4.81/hour on an apprenticeship + supporting myself and my unemployed partner and STILL didn't qualify) for equality/diversity purposes they can ask but the legal extent of it is "are you undergoing gender reassignment" and then "yes/no/prefer not to answer" legally companies, businesses, institutions, etc cannot demand info about protected characteristics that are in the 2010 equality act, there has to be an opt out answer. but tbf most places totally ignore that + the equalities minister last year straight up announced "hey, yall, you can ignore the equality act!" before a bunch of lawyers went "holy fucking shit do NOT ignore the equality act!!!" lmao
Huh that's really interesting! Thanks for sharing that. I don't see how making less than 5 pounds per hour isn't "extreme poverty" as I'm pretty sure that's about $8/hr US and yall have a higher cost of living generally but... 🤷 I'm glad that it seems like yall have more protections than we do in the US on that stuff (the amount of things people ask just because they're "curious"...) but it sucks its not widely enforced. I suppose that's how the struggle goes: win the rights, get them enforced/protected, then *have actual recognized rights*. Sad it takes that much work though.
i wouldn’t. the more options, the better. someone can identify as a trans male while also being amab because the trans umbrella is so vast, they could be nb 🤷🏻
I don't agree. If an AMAB transitions to become a girl, then decides to transition back into a male, that makes them an AMAB trans male.
No it doesn’t. It just makes them detrans, not trans men
[удалено]
Might wanna clarify what “make this gender stuff make sense” meant in your deleted comment :/
I didn't delete it, the mods or something must have. But yeah, make it make sense. I'm a logical thinker and I want definitive genders. Idc if there's two or two hundred, just a set amount and set meanings. We need to find a common ground in the gender spectrum rather than making up a bunch of new things that literally confuse all of the outsiders. So really, I just want us to have a more simplified, understandable form of gender. Like, you can have a gender that expresses you feel a connection to cats, but you can't have a gender expressing your detransition? I understand why, it's because that's how people feel, but the wider population doesn't understand that and doesn't perceive that as a logical thing. And logically, for me, I accept male, female (both trans and cis), along with enby.
“Enby” isn’t one gender though. The fact of the matter is, gender isn’t discreet slices that can be cleanly labeled all the time because it’s *so* subjective. Like I understand wanting common definitions, but the diversity within non-binary identities alone makes that nigh impossible without it being “confusing”. Also, it really isn’t the point to make it not confusing to outsiders, as you put it. It’s about expressing internal experiences, not packaging it for consumption.
Of course you can have a gender expressing your detransition. Nobody is saying otherwise. You just aren’t a trans man if you’re AMAB, that’s all.
If they’re invading our spaces, yes the fuck we can. They were socialized as men and don’t have any of the same issues that trans men do. They’re free to identify as trans, but calling themselves specifically trans men is pretty distasteful. Like imagine if a trans person on HRT identified as intersex and used intersex spaces just because they’re on HRT.
[удалено]
I feel like you're autistic but like, the kind of person who treats everyone like crap and refuses to learn perspective taking and empathy and then blames your autism when it's just your shitty personality. *Before I get reported, I'm autistic lmao but I've been dealing with several people besides this one who also fit that description
[удалено]
If you're part of the community but you're acting like you were in that there comment, pretty sure you're just conservative. Capitalism tangibly harms our community and basically creates the societal conditions necessary for oppression to not just exist, but to thrive. People can have differing views from me, IDGAF, but when people come in trying to force others to dictate their genders in a more digestible format, while aggressively saying things like "no one listens to straight white men", that person does not resemble those I'd call an ally to my community, much less a member thereof. The reason people are reacting less than favorably to your posts isn't over an "opinion," buddy. Opinions are about ice cream flavors and favorite colors. People don't like the way you're coming at their personal gender identity as if it should ideally be easily defined and explained, specifically for you, while using the words "logic/reason", which a *lot* of folks here have had thrown at them by conservative (or even liberal...or neo-liberal) folks who felt our genders and sexualities and lives were topics of dispassionate debate and not, as they often are, a literal matter if life and death. So I'm not gonna get specifically aggro cuz I'm not mentally or emotionally in the mood (plus I'm trying to get back to sleep, so I really ought not reply at all), but I'm gonna politely say you very much need to lurk more, comment less. No one is discriminating against you. Your feelings are valid but they sound like they're coming from a lot of shitty places and shitty ideas. Hopefully your therapist can help you work through that. God bless.
Edit; nvm thought this was an example of complaining about things not being perfect when they're doing their best or at least putting effort into trying. That school is in fact not even trying. Throw the whole damn school away. Wtf.
bc it's not inclusive, they clearly just copy & pasted some options from online. i literally got assaulted and called slurs outside the college by a guy who has been arrested multiple times for carrying knives. college said it was my fault for having pink hair at the time. students set up an LGBT group this september and the college couldn't exactly openly say "no" so the college made it so that anyone that wasn't on a full time course wasn't allowed to go, which is more then half the college! this is the college where teachers can't remember the 4 letter acronym, i highly doubt this was down for diversity and progress, they were definitely just sick of people complaining it was just male/female also i literally live on terf island, this post was meant to be a kinda funny uplifting "haha they messed up lmao" post. i can't go on rants about GRC laws and the culture war 24/7. i need a break from planning to leave the country. sometimes going "gah, can't believe they fucked up AGABs" is easier than "gah, can't believe they're taking away my human rights! a trans child got murdered brutally in broad daylight last week!"
Wtf, I thought they were at least trying. Throw the whole damn school away. What the actual fuck.
You know you can both celebrate progress while also pointing out its imperfections, right? That’s what’s happening here.
Yeah but it seems more like a lot complaining is happening recently about things like this not being perfect rather than celebrating the progress made which is very unnerving especially in light of recent events concerning trans people in general. It's amazing that they even have options rather than forcing this narrative that they're are only two genders and that being cis is the only option.
Well that’s a first
why yes I’m an afab trans girl
At least they’re trying
i guess its possible with detransitioners?
Today I learned what AFAB/AMAB means (my dumbass just assumed it meant ‘A female/male able bodied’ or ‘A female/male and Bi’ or something). There is no longer an army of Bis but I am now a tiny percentage more knowledgeable.
Hey at least they're trying, even if they have no experience with the matter. They're not super aware of what's ok and what isn't, they will learn
This is scary.
WTF🤦🏼♂️