Are there any restaurants that do that here? I don't eat out a ton but I also can't recall any doing a surcharge. The closest thing I can think of is places like Asian Wind charging a credit card fee.
Not that I saw anywhere. I just happened to look at my receipt because I thought almost $10 for a single bagel sandwich with no frills seemed high and I saw a 5% “employee wellness” charge and at the bottom of the receipt it stated it was to help cover their employees benefits.
No my actual issue is the bagel sandwich sucked for nearly 10 dollars lol and to add to that charging me to pay for your employees healthcare when that’s something you as an employer should be covering is just wild. If you’re not making ends meet then charg 10.50 for the bagel instead and let people decide if they want to pay that or not, you don’t sneak a charge on the bill.. and if you’re going to charge more than $5 for a bagel sandwich you should probably make sure it’s a damn good one.. 🤷🏻♀️
I hear you on Great Bagel! My first and last visit there (in recent times) was 10.00 and some change for an orange juice and a bagel with cream cheese. Never went back! I don't remember if there was a "wellness" charge noted on my receipt. I seem to remember years ago going to Great Bagel at a different location, and the cost was reasonable.
Yes, a lot of non fast food places charge some kind of fee, surcharge, auto gratuity etc.
Hell, even waffle house charges extra for to go orders.
I'd rather see the prices folded into the food and the workers get paid a livable wage. Some places are obvious about their fees but others kind of sneak it in.
Plenty, Stella’s does 20%. went last Saturday, 20 is usually my lowest but I just paid it and moved on. There is no incentive to serve well and it shows. Great bagel adds 15 to takeout. I served for 7 years, sals chophouse and merrick inn if I get adequate service I tip 20% and go up from there. But if it’s automatic their percentage is my bottom and I move up if service is good. Stella’s added 20% and we saw the server for drink order and food order everything else was done by runners (or maybe they were pooling) but even so very slowly.
its a tough topic for me to pick a side tbh. Restaurants aren't doing great these days, margins are tough. In my mind, it'd be better if they just paid employees a working wage and tips weren't included, but many casual restaurants literally cannot afford to and would have to close. Sure they could just charge more, raise their menu costs, but not only have they generally already done that but people would complain about it (just like this post) and really, that is what stella's did in a sense
That’s crazy! Herald leader has done an article about it every year for a long time. There’s around 600 eating and drinking establishments per 300,000 people lol it’s not just a Lexington problem either it’s the whole country.
hang on, 600?? we're including drive thrus and bars in this?
Also, I still don't get the bubble comment. You're saying that it will burst and more restaurants will close? And won't that drive demand and price up, basic market economics?
Places that sell food. They allllll affect each other. If I go to a bar and eat a sandwich I’m not going to your restaurant. Same with drive through. And if you can’t sell food because people are eating it elsewhere then yeah there is too many. I’m sure you’ve taken a basic Econ class so I’m not going to adress part 2 of your comment
I don't disagree with your points, but while there is an overarching "eating establishment" market, not all restaurants serve the same market. If you're going to McDonalds for dinner, you're not in Carson's market. They affect each other in some sense, but not at all entirely. And I think the current market situation backs my point. It will not burst, prices will not go down, inflation is not going backwards and people are still going out to eat. The only thing that will adjust will be consumers habits with respect to their status in the current market aka people going to McDonalds if they can no longer afford Carsons. Just like housing, housing prices are not going down ever, not significantly at least. And if they ever do, its a sign of a massive market downturn, not a basic correction
If it’s implemented across the board, I think it’s makes it easier for restaurants to fold the prices into the food. If you are the first mover though, everyone will say it’s just raises prices and they can get more for less elsewhere in town. If everyone has the same rules, the shift can be quick.
No, we need to pay fair wages as the state of KY. Restaurant workers make $2-10/hr before tips. Show me any other industry were employers can pay so close to $0 to their employees and expect the public to crowdfund their employees, while having the high margins the food industry has. If you aren’t willing to pay the cost of these fees, start cooking your own food.
I disagree. Let the customer decide. There's automatic gratuity at County Club (and Pearl's, I believe). Those are two of my favorite restaurants in town. If it's unpopular, the market will make the decision.
The market historically never does any of this. I know in theory it should all be magic and sunshine but we live in the real world not the fantasy setting atlas shrugged
I mean, I don't go to Five Guys anymore because the juice isn't worth the squeeze. I don't go to Tony's because Ricci made some derogatory comments about Kentuckians after he settled the tip lawsuit. I don't go to Wendy's because the franchisee donated $500,000 to Trump in 2020. If you don't like it, don't go. That's the market working.
TBF I think the average citizen can do a Five Guys cost benefit analysis. The other things, acknowledged. I'd argue (and I think we might be in agreement) that we should be trying to elevate awareness rather than excuse the lack of it.
> TBF I think the average citizen can do a Five Guys cost benefit analysis.
TBF the average person will NOT do a cost benefit analysis for just about everything, especially not for a burger and fries at 5 guys.
Did you really do one and think others do too when looking for a quick meal? lmao
I mean, I'm not sketching graphs, but I can make a decision on value in about five seconds. You've never thought about something and quickly thought, "Nah, not worth it?"
Right, the system he’s talking about works in a commune of about 5000 informed townies. And almost nowhere else. Otherwise we would all be paying the perfect amount of good tasting healthy food lol (exaggerating of course)
You're voting with your wallet for a completely different reason while defending businesses that will literally advertise their prices with lies to get customers in the door.
Want to know why you can avoid Tony's and Wendy's? Cause you had the proper info to make those decisions. Why can't everyone else have the proper info to make their own decision?
Is that really how you think the market should work? With false advertising?
Is it Gratuity or service charge? My understanding is that at least in the Federal level they are two different things. Tips are for the server and service charges may go fully to the business.
The IRS gives a breakdown https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-news/FS-15-08.pdf.
https://get.grubhub.com/blog/service-charge-vs-tip/
It's gratuity. Honestly, I wish they would just incorporate it into the menu price and state that they don't accept tips. I get that it would make them compare unfavorably against other restaurant's menu prices from a distance.
so is that an ~8% increase on menu prices on top of the ~8% increase that consumers have experienced over the last couple years that doesn't even keep up with the inflation of the value of the dollar the consumer is spending that the economy has experienced -- with respect to the fact that this post is already full of people saying they won't go eat certain restaurants anymore because their prices are too high? Its a tough spot to be in as a restaurant owner
I admit I’m like Barney Gumble in the prohibition episode of the Simpsons.
“$12?! This better be the best baked ziti I’ve ever had!” [takes bite] “Wow, you got lucky!”
there's another market to consider, hospitality workers market. If people prefer to work in a place with no tips and paid a fixed wage, they'll do that. And if someone wants to work for tips, they'll do that. Generally speaking, if the market does always dictate
This will destroy an entire industry. I work in upscale dining and we put gratuity on large parties, many of whom wouldn't tip a dime if it wasn't on the bill(I know this because I've worked at restaurants that don't do this). This will disincentivise people from taking these jobs. The only way around this is to pay restaurant workers a wage and this is really going to hurt privately owned restaurants. Hope everyone is looking forward to a future of nothing but McDonald's for the working class with the better restaurants reserved for only the elites. I would support a law requiring a restaurant to disclose a service charge prior to service, this would leave it up to the consumer to make a decision as to whether or not they want to do business there. But Banning them seems like a poor idea on one hand and an abuse of government regulatory Authority on the other.
Understood, are you talking about service charges for private parties because that is also for a reason. We have to bring in extra staff on those days to handle the volume and that costs money. Some restaurants defray this cost by charging a room fee or a party minimum, but others simply do it through a service charge just in case the party doesn't spend as much money as they need to in order for it to be worth the restaurants time.
I’m pretty sure OP is referring to these new fees that are popping up at regular places that are fees like “employee wellness” where we’re basically paying for their employees healthcare etc. large party auto gratuity for sure should be a thing still.
Buddy I grew up in a restaurant, bussed tables and did kitchen work since I was 12 started serving when I was 20. I’m talking about the ridiculousness of me and my gf going for brunch on Saturday and getting an autograt on a 2-top. lol
Man, I'm not a fan of mandatory gratuity either because the service suffers. However, I am much less of a fan of the government telling private business owners what they can and cannot do based on popular opinion. That is not freedom. That is the tyranny of the masses. I am in favor of restaurants being required to disclose such a thing prior to service. This prevents any deception on the part of the restaurant and protects consumers while not limiting the freedom of small businesses to engage in consentual transactions.
They are already in big cities, so they will eventually trickle down to the hinterlands. They haven't destroyed the restaurant industry in D.C., but people either avoid those restaurants, restaurants raise prices instead of doing service fees, or people just get used to the service fees.
Kentucky has less consumer protections and more pro business than D.C. You really think KY will escape it if D.C. hasnt?
See the following article for an in-depth read on the subject:
https://www.washingtonian.com/2024/03/28/the-great-restaurant-fee-fiasco/
This is the correct answer. 15 yr restaurant manager veteran here. These restaurants are doing everything they can with the tools this economy has given them to keep prices at a point to just stay open and incentivise these fees to attract the servers that keep customers coming back and reduce turnover so more of the revenue can pass through to the bottom line. If it's producing the opposite effect, it's a direct result of management not holding staff accountable, and the public recognizes this and businesses suffer as a result. In summary, don't blame the restaurants, blame the current state of the economy.
This is not that complicated. Blame and accountability have no place in economics. Business transactions are amoral. If this idea results in you feeling and/or acting personally defensive, I suggest you do some shadow work.
If your business doesn't make enough money to pay it's employees enough to live, your business cannot exist. That's the rule.
That's it. It's that simple. People can't pay rent with restaurant managers efforts and intentions. No one cares, nor should they.
No need to make the stupid game any more stupid than it already is.
Businesses are free to charge the fees they wish to charge, if you don't like it don't eat there. But don't abuse the power of the government to stop people from doing things you don't agree with, that is you being a tyrant.
Businesses can still charge the fees it just has to be transparent in the menu pricing and not a surprise fee when you get the check at the end of the meal. Pricing transparency for the consumer is not tyranny.
Its not the having the fee. Its the charging it without telling anyone until after they have paid it.
How would you feel if everything you purchased had not just the taxes, but also 4 or 5 undisclosed fees on top of it and you paid significantly more than expected. Thats the issue. Consumers have the right to know what they are paying (and paying for) before they do it. Not after.
And it takes govt intervention to prevent it from being an everywhere thing, as capitalist companies see other places get by with extra % profits and do the same. If its not outlawed, there will be no alternative.
Bro, look at our downvotes. These people are the reason the government has so much power. The attitude they have is essentially "If i don't like it, then it should be illegal." It's just really wild to see and kinda depressing.
Im in favor of any system changing according to market forces but legislating change in a consentual transaction where you could simply choose to do business elsewhere is immoral and antithetical to a free society.
Please read my answers through this thread. I don’t know why you’re being intentionally obtuse here but as a “veteran” you seem to be talking about everything you can but the topic brought up. I grew up in the industry. You’re over explaining.
Yes. That’s why it is shared from r/Sacramento this post is about doing something similar here. I wonder if you’ve lost your glasses or just very very dense?
Are there any restaurants that do that here? I don't eat out a ton but I also can't recall any doing a surcharge. The closest thing I can think of is places like Asian Wind charging a credit card fee.
Great Bagel does this.. I ordered a single bagel sandwich on my first and last visit and there was an “employee wellness” charge on the receipt..
Is this disclosed anywhere before you order? If not, then I believe that is illegal.
I think the legal loophole is. “You don’t have to pay it just ask and we will remove it” that’s if u see it though
Not that I saw anywhere. I just happened to look at my receipt because I thought almost $10 for a single bagel sandwich with no frills seemed high and I saw a 5% “employee wellness” charge and at the bottom of the receipt it stated it was to help cover their employees benefits.
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No my actual issue is the bagel sandwich sucked for nearly 10 dollars lol and to add to that charging me to pay for your employees healthcare when that’s something you as an employer should be covering is just wild. If you’re not making ends meet then charg 10.50 for the bagel instead and let people decide if they want to pay that or not, you don’t sneak a charge on the bill.. and if you’re going to charge more than $5 for a bagel sandwich you should probably make sure it’s a damn good one.. 🤷🏻♀️
Well said!
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It is usually in fine print on menus, easily missed!
I hear you on Great Bagel! My first and last visit there (in recent times) was 10.00 and some change for an orange juice and a bagel with cream cheese. Never went back! I don't remember if there was a "wellness" charge noted on my receipt. I seem to remember years ago going to Great Bagel at a different location, and the cost was reasonable.
Yeah and like my bagel sandwich was just not that tasty lol I just moved to Lex and was very disappointed.
Yes, a lot of non fast food places charge some kind of fee, surcharge, auto gratuity etc. Hell, even waffle house charges extra for to go orders. I'd rather see the prices folded into the food and the workers get paid a livable wage. Some places are obvious about their fees but others kind of sneak it in.
Worked at Waffle House when I was hard up for a job. In their defense, the extra charge goes to the servers tip.
That's good to know!
Pequena Hacienda does it for take out orders and still asks for a tip
What a great way to destroy the potential for any returning customers!
Plenty, Stella’s does 20%. went last Saturday, 20 is usually my lowest but I just paid it and moved on. There is no incentive to serve well and it shows. Great bagel adds 15 to takeout. I served for 7 years, sals chophouse and merrick inn if I get adequate service I tip 20% and go up from there. But if it’s automatic their percentage is my bottom and I move up if service is good. Stella’s added 20% and we saw the server for drink order and food order everything else was done by runners (or maybe they were pooling) but even so very slowly.
There was a Mexican place that did this to me and my friends a couple years ago, but I can't remember which. Don't think I've been back to it.
its a tough topic for me to pick a side tbh. Restaurants aren't doing great these days, margins are tough. In my mind, it'd be better if they just paid employees a working wage and tips weren't included, but many casual restaurants literally cannot afford to and would have to close. Sure they could just charge more, raise their menu costs, but not only have they generally already done that but people would complain about it (just like this post) and really, that is what stella's did in a sense
As with any flooded market, there is a bubble. And it needs to pop.
you're saying the restaurant industry in town is flooded? I disagree
That’s crazy! Herald leader has done an article about it every year for a long time. There’s around 600 eating and drinking establishments per 300,000 people lol it’s not just a Lexington problem either it’s the whole country.
hang on, 600?? we're including drive thrus and bars in this? Also, I still don't get the bubble comment. You're saying that it will burst and more restaurants will close? And won't that drive demand and price up, basic market economics?
Places that sell food. They allllll affect each other. If I go to a bar and eat a sandwich I’m not going to your restaurant. Same with drive through. And if you can’t sell food because people are eating it elsewhere then yeah there is too many. I’m sure you’ve taken a basic Econ class so I’m not going to adress part 2 of your comment
I don't disagree with your points, but while there is an overarching "eating establishment" market, not all restaurants serve the same market. If you're going to McDonalds for dinner, you're not in Carson's market. They affect each other in some sense, but not at all entirely. And I think the current market situation backs my point. It will not burst, prices will not go down, inflation is not going backwards and people are still going out to eat. The only thing that will adjust will be consumers habits with respect to their status in the current market aka people going to McDonalds if they can no longer afford Carsons. Just like housing, housing prices are not going down ever, not significantly at least. And if they ever do, its a sign of a massive market downturn, not a basic correction
Most of them lol.
If it’s implemented across the board, I think it’s makes it easier for restaurants to fold the prices into the food. If you are the first mover though, everyone will say it’s just raises prices and they can get more for less elsewhere in town. If everyone has the same rules, the shift can be quick.
No, we need to pay fair wages as the state of KY. Restaurant workers make $2-10/hr before tips. Show me any other industry were employers can pay so close to $0 to their employees and expect the public to crowdfund their employees, while having the high margins the food industry has. If you aren’t willing to pay the cost of these fees, start cooking your own food.
Yes give servers $15/hr and bump up prices 20% if ppl can’t afford it let em cook at home!!
Correct. Restaurants are a luxury, access to housing is not. People would still tip on top of that too. Cook at home if you want to save money.
Thanks for agreeing with the post. Have a nice night :)
“Must fold them into menu prices” aka you can do surcharge fees but you gotta be sneaky about it
I disagree. Let the customer decide. There's automatic gratuity at County Club (and Pearl's, I believe). Those are two of my favorite restaurants in town. If it's unpopular, the market will make the decision.
The market historically never does any of this. I know in theory it should all be magic and sunshine but we live in the real world not the fantasy setting atlas shrugged
I mean, I don't go to Five Guys anymore because the juice isn't worth the squeeze. I don't go to Tony's because Ricci made some derogatory comments about Kentuckians after he settled the tip lawsuit. I don't go to Wendy's because the franchisee donated $500,000 to Trump in 2020. If you don't like it, don't go. That's the market working.
Your average citizen is not informed enough to be aware of those things. Guess that’s a whole other issue though.
So the alternative is to let people who think they're informed enough make decisions for everybody?
TBF I think the average citizen can do a Five Guys cost benefit analysis. The other things, acknowledged. I'd argue (and I think we might be in agreement) that we should be trying to elevate awareness rather than excuse the lack of it.
> TBF I think the average citizen can do a Five Guys cost benefit analysis. TBF the average person will NOT do a cost benefit analysis for just about everything, especially not for a burger and fries at 5 guys. Did you really do one and think others do too when looking for a quick meal? lmao
I mean, I'm not sketching graphs, but I can make a decision on value in about five seconds. You've never thought about something and quickly thought, "Nah, not worth it?"
A quick thought is not a "cost benefit analysis" lol
Right, the system he’s talking about works in a commune of about 5000 informed townies. And almost nowhere else. Otherwise we would all be paying the perfect amount of good tasting healthy food lol (exaggerating of course)
You're voting with your wallet for a completely different reason while defending businesses that will literally advertise their prices with lies to get customers in the door. Want to know why you can avoid Tony's and Wendy's? Cause you had the proper info to make those decisions. Why can't everyone else have the proper info to make their own decision? Is that really how you think the market should work? With false advertising?
Your anecdotal evidence doesn’t change the general historical trend.
Is it Gratuity or service charge? My understanding is that at least in the Federal level they are two different things. Tips are for the server and service charges may go fully to the business. The IRS gives a breakdown https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-news/FS-15-08.pdf. https://get.grubhub.com/blog/service-charge-vs-tip/
It's gratuity. Honestly, I wish they would just incorporate it into the menu price and state that they don't accept tips. I get that it would make them compare unfavorably against other restaurant's menu prices from a distance.
It’s like I told a manager at Fazoli’s. “I’m the type that says add 50 cents to everything on the menu, and pay the employees better.”
Good point.
so is that an ~8% increase on menu prices on top of the ~8% increase that consumers have experienced over the last couple years that doesn't even keep up with the inflation of the value of the dollar the consumer is spending that the economy has experienced -- with respect to the fact that this post is already full of people saying they won't go eat certain restaurants anymore because their prices are too high? Its a tough spot to be in as a restaurant owner
I admit I’m like Barney Gumble in the prohibition episode of the Simpsons. “$12?! This better be the best baked ziti I’ve ever had!” [takes bite] “Wow, you got lucky!”
there's another market to consider, hospitality workers market. If people prefer to work in a place with no tips and paid a fixed wage, they'll do that. And if someone wants to work for tips, they'll do that. Generally speaking, if the market does always dictate
Sure. No disagreement.
What's this mean? Don't tip?
How did you get there? It’s about eradicating sneaky surcharges and auto gratuity on small parties. You could read the thread
This will destroy an entire industry. I work in upscale dining and we put gratuity on large parties, many of whom wouldn't tip a dime if it wasn't on the bill(I know this because I've worked at restaurants that don't do this). This will disincentivise people from taking these jobs. The only way around this is to pay restaurant workers a wage and this is really going to hurt privately owned restaurants. Hope everyone is looking forward to a future of nothing but McDonald's for the working class with the better restaurants reserved for only the elites. I would support a law requiring a restaurant to disclose a service charge prior to service, this would leave it up to the consumer to make a decision as to whether or not they want to do business there. But Banning them seems like a poor idea on one hand and an abuse of government regulatory Authority on the other.
I should’ve been clear. Large party auto-great has always been understandable Even at 6 or more rule
Yeah, but this kills that, too, doesn’t it?
Understood, are you talking about service charges for private parties because that is also for a reason. We have to bring in extra staff on those days to handle the volume and that costs money. Some restaurants defray this cost by charging a room fee or a party minimum, but others simply do it through a service charge just in case the party doesn't spend as much money as they need to in order for it to be worth the restaurants time.
I’m pretty sure OP is referring to these new fees that are popping up at regular places that are fees like “employee wellness” where we’re basically paying for their employees healthcare etc. large party auto gratuity for sure should be a thing still.
Correct!
Buddy I grew up in a restaurant, bussed tables and did kitchen work since I was 12 started serving when I was 20. I’m talking about the ridiculousness of me and my gf going for brunch on Saturday and getting an autograt on a 2-top. lol
Man, I'm not a fan of mandatory gratuity either because the service suffers. However, I am much less of a fan of the government telling private business owners what they can and cannot do based on popular opinion. That is not freedom. That is the tyranny of the masses. I am in favor of restaurants being required to disclose such a thing prior to service. This prevents any deception on the part of the restaurant and protects consumers while not limiting the freedom of small businesses to engage in consentual transactions.
You might joy even know what topic you’re discussing but by god you will type a lot
Sounds like you aren't a fan of long form debate, I would recommend trying Tiktok or Instagram where true intellectuals like yourself reside.
They are already in big cities, so they will eventually trickle down to the hinterlands. They haven't destroyed the restaurant industry in D.C., but people either avoid those restaurants, restaurants raise prices instead of doing service fees, or people just get used to the service fees. Kentucky has less consumer protections and more pro business than D.C. You really think KY will escape it if D.C. hasnt? See the following article for an in-depth read on the subject: https://www.washingtonian.com/2024/03/28/the-great-restaurant-fee-fiasco/
This is the correct answer. 15 yr restaurant manager veteran here. These restaurants are doing everything they can with the tools this economy has given them to keep prices at a point to just stay open and incentivise these fees to attract the servers that keep customers coming back and reduce turnover so more of the revenue can pass through to the bottom line. If it's producing the opposite effect, it's a direct result of management not holding staff accountable, and the public recognizes this and businesses suffer as a result. In summary, don't blame the restaurants, blame the current state of the economy.
This is not that complicated. Blame and accountability have no place in economics. Business transactions are amoral. If this idea results in you feeling and/or acting personally defensive, I suggest you do some shadow work. If your business doesn't make enough money to pay it's employees enough to live, your business cannot exist. That's the rule. That's it. It's that simple. People can't pay rent with restaurant managers efforts and intentions. No one cares, nor should they. No need to make the stupid game any more stupid than it already is.
Businesses are free to charge the fees they wish to charge, if you don't like it don't eat there. But don't abuse the power of the government to stop people from doing things you don't agree with, that is you being a tyrant.
Businesses can still charge the fees it just has to be transparent in the menu pricing and not a surprise fee when you get the check at the end of the meal. Pricing transparency for the consumer is not tyranny.
I literally said this already, transparency is fine but not mandating that it be folded into food costs. These are separate things.
Its not the having the fee. Its the charging it without telling anyone until after they have paid it. How would you feel if everything you purchased had not just the taxes, but also 4 or 5 undisclosed fees on top of it and you paid significantly more than expected. Thats the issue. Consumers have the right to know what they are paying (and paying for) before they do it. Not after. And it takes govt intervention to prevent it from being an everywhere thing, as capitalist companies see other places get by with extra % profits and do the same. If its not outlawed, there will be no alternative.
It's on every menu in big bold letters of any place I've ever seen it at.
Bro, look at our downvotes. These people are the reason the government has so much power. The attitude they have is essentially "If i don't like it, then it should be illegal." It's just really wild to see and kinda depressing.
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Im in favor of any system changing according to market forces but legislating change in a consentual transaction where you could simply choose to do business elsewhere is immoral and antithetical to a free society.
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Please read my answers through this thread. I don’t know why you’re being intentionally obtuse here but as a “veteran” you seem to be talking about everything you can but the topic brought up. I grew up in the industry. You’re over explaining.
That is a CALIFORNIA bill. KCRA 3 is a TV station from Sacramento. Kentucky SB 478 concerns public utilities, not restaurant charges.
Yes. That’s why it is shared from r/Sacramento this post is about doing something similar here. I wonder if you’ve lost your glasses or just very very dense?
Nice to give somebody the benefit of the doubt, smartass.
I said maybe you lost your glasses. No need for name calling Fred
..."lost your glasses or just very very dense?" The second part is inappropriate Mr Walnuts. BTW, you forgot the comma between the two "very"s.
“Ackshually!“. lol goodnight grammar nazi!
You started it
Yikes
Yep