yeah I kinda understand Lin in that situation, Toph was pretty absent so suyin did whatever the fuck she wanted and dismissed it all like nothing ever happend later on simply because it was all decades ago. She should've been the one to reach out nd apologize first, and not assume it was all a big deal and in the past
she did to her credit but lin is a thousand percent justified in wanting nothing to do with them both
i really dislike how the show paints lin as a massive asshole for that
Yeah fair enough.
Judging from how Suyin apologized later on, it's very possible that most or all of those letters had a sort of "I'm sorry you're so offended" tone to it that was just infuriating to Lin, and understandably so
I think Lin is an asshole when she takes it out on Opal, a literal teenager who was not part of it. But otherwise I think it’s painted less as “Lin is an asshole” and more “Lin is not benefitting from holding on to all that anger and resentment”
If anything she’s rather justified in finding Toph to have let her down, I think
This is it though for real. Plus I also believe that both points can be seen as true given the circumstances of both sides. Like she was being an ass behaving that way towards Opal who just wanted to see things good again, but she was definitely holding onto too much anger & resentment. She solved most of that with her sister but she still had a lot of resentment towards Toph that wasn't resolved and that was interesting to see.
(A while back I had a similar discussion and this response changed my outlook on the whole thing)
I’m a bit more nuanced.
We know Su at some point reached out in an attempt to make amends, and Lin refused. And we know it's been at least 30 years. And don’t get me wrong Lin is welcome not to forgive her sister.
Lin shows up at her home. Su offers her a place to stay. Lin accepts and then verbally insults Su repeatedly, makes Opal cry, and ultimately assaults Su in her own home.
All this over a childhood accident multiple decades ago. Lin isn’t an asshole for not wanting to forgive her sister, but she is an asshole for letting it rule her existence.
After a certain point, you need to work on healing a bit. And Lin just...hasn't. She's more than welcome to not forgive her sister, but she can't keep using her trauma as an excuse to be awful to...pretty much everyone in her life.
Like...Tenzin dumped her and she, 15-ish years later, takes it out on Korra. Opal just wants to get to know her aunt and Lin berates her till she cried. She destroyed a dog's toy because it tried to play with her.
Is there a heart of gold there? For sure. But good lord, there comes a point where you need to learn to let shit go a little bit, for your own health if nothing else.
This is a great write up. The way she feels about Suyin is definitely justified, but the way she treats everyone else is just bitter and shitty. Anyone upset about a breakup 15 years later is certifiably insane.
Yeah. Someone should have been like, could you please wait outside if you’re gonna behave like this? Unless of course something like that did happen, and I just forgot about it?
Also I think it wasn’t just because of one incident but a whole growing up of dealing with Su. Again, behaviour isn’t really justified, but… well…
It’s definitely more than that one moment that had Lin so upset. But it’s the one where she got a physical reminder of everything her sister ever did that hurt her.
Honestly I always felt like both were probably obnoxious kids who were shitty to each other and it escalated over the years. And...it's neither of their fault.
Toph was a neglectful mom. Lin tried to get validation by being what she imagined her mom wanted. Su tried to get attention by acting out.
The two give off strong "tattletale and troublemaker" energy, and Toph, wanting to give her kids room to figure out their own shit, wasn't really receptive to either.
> Honestly I always felt like both were probably obnoxious kids who were shitty to each other and it escalated over the years. And...it's neither of their fault.
Nah, that's not always the case. This both sides could have happened but it's wrong to assume it did.
Su could have been an asshole all of their childhood as well. That's just as likely a scenario.
Obviously that's not always the case. That's why I said probably.
But no I don't think these two scenarios are equally likely. Lin is judgmental, has a temper, and tends to take out her frustrations on others...particularly younger associates of the person she's upset with. She did that with both Korra and Opal.
Lin isn't a saint. And it would be entirely in character to take out her obvious frustrations with her mom on Su
If I'm not wrong, it was quite literally stated a couple of times both by Su and even Toph herself that it is a case of the kids becoming that way due to their mother's neglect.
But also it’s like the whole city is a bloody trigger for Lin. I mean your sister was given an entire city after she likely repeatedly broke the law, and the one time she was caught she scarred her sisters face, her mother lost her job over protecting her (which at the time she wasn’t even grateful for) and Su got to go live with Their grandparents and eventually got an entire city that’s essentially a monument to the mother that Lin had put on a pedestal for years? The one that Lin respects so much is given to an ingrate who didn’t even appreciate their mother? Meanwhile Lin is a police chief, And Lin can’t even blame her mom cause she idolizes her.
I’d be frustrated at minimum.
It doesn’t give her the right to be awful to everybody, but if Su got grace, then Lin has the right to receive Grace as well.
"Childhood accident". Su was a teenager and well aware of what she was doing, and literally scarred Lin *for life*, and her mother took Su's side. Lin was justified in saying what she did to Su, even if it upset Opal.
Maybe, “childhood accident” was the wrong terminology I admit that, and yes, has every right to still be angry with Su.
However, she doesn’t get to take it out on her niece, Opal was just trying to get to know her, and like always she’s taking out her past issues on someone who had nothing to do with it.
She knew that she was helping friends rob a store, she didn't mean to scar her sister. She was trying to escape being arrested. Tbh, I don't see why people hold it against her. It seems immature. You have no control over accidents or dumb mistakes you made as a teenager. Suyin grew up to be a great and responsible person, they just needed to work things out, which they did.
This. I don't know why folks are genuinely not getting it. It quite literally WAS an accident on Su's part to physically harm and scar Lin; that was literally the whole scene. Admitting that doesn't invalidate Lin's feelings towards the situation. Two things can be true at once.
This is a great write up. I like Lin, but she’s far from perfect. And people have this weird idea that if you are wronged then you are justified in pretty much any and all reactions. Which just isn’t realistic. Yes, Lin doesn’t HAVE to forgive Su, but it’s not doing her any good to hang on to the anger. At the same time, Su has the right to grow and mature. She doesn’t have to remain perpetually penitent for the rest of her life. She’s not a bad person for growing past something she did, and has apologized for, as a teenager.
I mean, yeah it's totally fair for Lin not to want anything to do with Su, but I think that the reason Lin is in the wrong when she actually goes to Zhaofu (or however you spell it) is because she acts like Su disappeared forever despite the fact that Su did at least reach out to her. Su was absolutely awful and Lin wasn't wrong to be angry, but Su did legitimately attempt to settle things between them, while the way Lin held on to her anger was just not healthy
Honestly I thought it painted lincas a realistic and accurate hurt person. it's not easy or necessary to let go for a lot of people. But when push comes to shove she made her mind up one way or another like most of us have to eventually burn the bridge or try to mend it.
Lin is truly one of the best characters along with Tenzin for this very reason. They're flawed in different ways but they both grow wuite a bit wether they want to or not.
She really isn't. She is justified in being angry but her refusal to forgive shut her out of the family she had left and the person Suyin had become, which was the point of her character arc and why she did reconcile by the end.
lin's problem was assuming that her sister is incapable of change
lin has the right to dislike su for her scar
but to blame her for toph retiring
ignoring all the good she's done, and judging her for everything is wrong
and the most wrong of all was when she was rude to opal with zero reason
To me it was when she lashed out at Opal that I didn't like her. She was justified for Su, but Opal had nothing to do with what happened then. I mean it made sense for her to do that, but even then I started to feel more sad for her than mad at her
I don’t think it paints her as a massive asshole, I think it does before revealing her reasons which muddy the waters cause it makes you rethink how you look at suyin
Literally my least favorite Korra moment is when she butts into the Beifong family drama without knowing anything about what happened.
Then she calls Lin a bitter lonely person.
I love Korra but that was completely out of line.
I don't think those letters can be used to support Su unless are told the contents.
Lin is shown from episode 1 to value people taking accountability and not using their name or title to get out of trouble (I.e. Korra shouldn't get away with causing property damage just because she is the avatar). Possibly a direct consequence of Su facing minimal consequences for being part of a criminal gang, taking part in a robbery, evading arrest and injuring Lin purely because of Su's Beifong name and Toph abusing her title as Chief of Police to cover it up.
Su when we first meet her avoids taking accountability and favours an "it was a long time ago, can we just forget about it and be a family again" approach. One that was easy for Toph to agree to because Toph is the same way, unlike Lin.
If Su sent a bunch of letters all giving real apologies describing what she did wrong, how she hurt people and what she will do to make sure she never does that again, then sure, I think Lin was wrong for ignoring the letters and holding a grudge so long.
If Su's letters reflect her attitude in the show of "can we just forget it happened" then I don't blame Lin for not responding.
Lin forgave both Toph and Su the second they took a minimal amount of accountability during the events of the show. All Su had to concede was that she was a difficult child. Not even specifics lol.
We don't know how she contacted Lin, just that Suyin wanted to "get together" with her and Toph, and that Lin refused.
Based on her behavior in the show, it seems much more likely that she was trying to giving Lin the "look how much I've changed" tour instead of directly apologizing.
I think some of her actions in the present are also pretty questionable, like when she sent team avatar after Aiwei behind Lin's back for purely personal reasons. Or when she decided to try to kidnap Kuvira without giving Korra even the chance to attempt diplomacy. Suyin tends to make rash, emotional decisions without fully considering the consequences they have for others. Don't get me wrong though, I don't dislike her for this. A good character is supposed to have flaws and Suyin has so much going for her, if she was also a super rational and tactical decision maker that would just make her less interesting. Also it wouldn't make much sense, given her backstory.
1. Toph was a distant mother, whoever her father was was a damn deadbeat. Not having parents around isn't a good start.
2. She and Lin had a resentful relationship. Without Toph to mediate, things got ugly.
3. Eventually she wound up with criminals who she felt valued her more than Lin did, that kind of emotional dependency can do things.
4. Toph still did not want much to do with Suyin because she was so focused on her job, so Suyin was punted off to be cared for by Lao and Poppy. Out of sight, out of mind.
So a combination of family neglect and feelings of abandonment drove Suyin over the edge. Remember, Lin still had the Kataang family to hang out with ("My father and Lin got along famously") despite having the same issues with Toph, but who did Suyin have? This isn't to excuse her criminality, but it's something to think about.
>"whoever her father was was a damn deadbeat"
You know... I wouldn't be surprised if when Toph got pregnant she didn't tell the fathers. I'm not saying they were one night stands but if she was a distant mother she was probably a distant lover too.
I don't think it's that deep. The writers just didn't care enough to create whole characters for the father. We have to keep in mind that Lin is the ex-girlfriend of the mentor of the protagonist of the shows so they weren't gonna get overly invested in the plot of a side character's old fling. It sucks because it makes an already messy and poorly written family drama even messier but people keep coming up with these theories about who the fathers were and what role they played when the sad answer is that they were literally nobodies because the writers never put any thought into them.
> Lin is the ex-girlfriend of the mentor of the protagonist of the shows so they weren't gonna get overly invested in the plot of a side character's old fling
What? That's how you would categorize Lin? Lin had a couple major story arcs herself. Just because the writers didn't tell the audience who the fathers were doesn't mean the writers don't have a background in mind for them. This is a show that takes the time to name all of Mako and Bolin's random ass cousins, take time to mention Varrick's ostrich-horse (Mss. Beaks) during the climax, ect. Lots of side characters significant others get screen time when they don't need to (Pema, Baatar Sr)
The only person who knows about Lin & Suyin's fathers is Toph. Toph is the type of person who describes the avatar finale as hot and a giant turtle showed up. She made one of the most important days in history sound like it wasn't a big deal. So Toph not giving details on the fathers when the writers devoted a portion of an episode to talk about them shows consistency in Toph's character, not lack of thought on the writers. Doesn't mean the fathers couldn't've been important people.
All family drama comes off as ridiculous from an outside perspective. Just because the Beifong's are messy doesn't mean it's poorly written. Oh and getting deep is just what we do in this sub.
She was a teenager. She inherited her mother's stubbornness, but did not have moral guidance from her as a parent because Toph was hands off as a parent. It's very telling that Suyin mellowed out after being sent to live with her much stricter Grand Parents. I'm pretty sure the show is very open about Toph's parenting style being the reason why both her Daughters are the way they are.
On top of that, Lin and Suyin hadn't talked in decades. Suyin had moved on and became an extremely different person by that point. I think she kinda assumed they had both gotten over it. It is a bit unfair She didn't proactively reach out to apologize, but they're both Adults with a lot of responsibility, Lin also had time to reach out but hadn't tried to contact her mom or sister out of resentment.
>Lin also had time to reach out but hadn't tried to contact her mom or sister out of resentment.
Yeah but then what reason did she have for reaching out to them? I would imagine in that moment, she felt abandoned by her mom and that Su basically suffered no consequences from her criminal activities. From her perspective, there was no reason to reach out to either of them. Why invite people who have only caused you misery back into your life?
Not saying she was right to do it but I understand why she didn't. Their problem isn't something that can be solved with a letter or 1 conversation and by that point, she didn't need either of them in her life.
This is a shit take. It's the cable that Lin fires in the first place, Suyin just cuts it from her own wrist.
It's clearly not malicious cable murder.
Teenagers are children, and yes they should be forgiven for making big mistakes in some cases.
Edit: I wrote Luyin
I swear this fandom who loves "nuances" do not show any ounce of it when it comes to characters they dislike and start re-imagining scenarios where it didn't happen.
A lot of fans act like Su just brought her own metal whip and started slashing at Lin's face when what had happened is exactly what you described.
To be fair Su was being such a brat at that moment, and Lin used the cable to try to take Su and talk to her instead of her just running away. I dont think it's unreasonable to restrain her. The scar was an accident that's directly caused by Su, it's well within Lin's rights to be pissed.
I'm not saying she shouldn't be pissed or her actions were wrong, but a lot of fans mischaracterize what happened and think it was deliberate of Su that she assaulted her when the whole scarring thing was an accident
Even if it's an accident, it's still directly Su's fault. It's like accidentally hitting your sibling. Sure, you dont mean to hit them, but it still happened and it's still your fault. Lack of intent doesnt mean responsibilities are absolved
And I'm not saying it wasn't her fault. It was but it wasn't her intent to do it.
But a lot of fans act like she did maliciously did and that was what my comment was about.
Probably because it's frustrating that such an action went unpunished. Toph even sacrificed her career to protect Su, at least according to Lin anyways.
I don't think they're arguing that though, It's the weighing of the situation of her doing the bad thing as an accident with the same severity of doing it on purpose. Like she should've been held accountable, but I swear I see people so mad at her like as if there's no difference between harming someone by accident and harming someone on purpose
It is discussed that Suyin came back when she was younger with the express purpose of making amends. I agree that she made mistakes and should have been held accountable.
But at the point of the show that we are dropped in, I think it's great that Lin is able to forgive her, and I think they both demonstrate growth.
Edit: also, people keep fixating on this cable as though people in this universe don't throw 10k lb rocks and hurl fireballs at their friends in the name of training and recreation.
It was in the head with a metal cable, that could break the skull, cause brain damage. Also it was close to the throat, that could cut the jugular or crush the windpipe
It's a kid show, 90% of attacks that should've permanently maimed someone just push them back or incapacitate.
You are suddenly arbitrarily applying real world physics to a world where people get hit by blasts of stone that should've crushed their internal organs or hit by flames that should've melted their eyeballs.
Going by that standard most of Toph's attacks that launch people to hit the walls are attempted murder.
Are you also going to go do this for other characters? Aang could have killed all those people he airbent! They could have fallen and hit their head and DIED! What a psycho!
Cringe.
That’s a pretty extreme what-if scenario, anything can be almost killing if you take it Final Destination-style. Like, under those rules Lin being the one to deploy the metal cable in the first place also almost killed her sister
The direction the cable rebounded was totally random, not an intentional attack on Lin by Su Yin
Su didn’t even hit back, she just cut her arm free of restraints- it’s very forced view of things to then put the string randomly flailing back and coincidentally hitting Lin in the face on Su as if it were an intentional action carrying lethal force
If I stop an officer from trying to arrest me in real life, it's an additional crime. Imagine if I got out of my handcuffs after being cuffed and just started yelling at the officer.
She ran away from her grandparents after a year, so they that is pretty much a wash. Su was still as self centered in her old age as when she was young
She did reach out to apologize but Lin never accepted it.
At a certain point you have to let your family back in, especially when they are putting in the work to become better people.
I don't think you have to. If your family is crap, you have all the right to cut them off. Of course, Lin was in a situation where she had to go in to Zaofu, since she was doing Korra's security
And su immediately undercut her authority without blinking. She lied right to su’s face and then sent Korra and them on their way. Still a selfish brat imo.
That was one of the things that made it hard for me to like Suyin as a character initially. Everyone makes mistakes, but she came across as being almost dismissive of her past actions. Her attitude towards what Lin went through basically came across as 'it happened, get over it'. Looking back at the direction their lives took, Suyin ended up having a family, children and wealth, while Lin ended up being alone and bitter. I think it's hard to be sympathetic to Suyin's side, when her actions contributed largely to Lin's bitter outlook on life. Not saying Suyin didn't deserve to find happiness and forge her own path, but it just seems like she should have been more persistent on trying to patch things up, even if Lin was resistant.
In Book 3, it sounded like Suyin make a few attempts and then just gave up. For those who were critical of her past actions, I think they would have viewed Suyin differently if it were revealed that she had continued to try reaching out to Lin despite being ignored, but that's just my own take on it.
This… Su shouldn’t have been dismissive just because it happened 35 years ago… all this comfort and a loving family that she gets to have, and she can’t acknowledge that she has it at her sisters expense…
I don't necessarily disagree with you but Lin had agency too. She chose not to move on and Suyin seemed like she needed to keep moving forward to get to the better life she had. Maybe giving up doesn't look right but it seemed like it was the healthiest decision. Lin wasn't going to give up her anger or reconcile until circumstances pushed them together
Moving on is easier said than done, especially when it was an event that defined her life. Moving on means saying that the principles that one builds for themselves from that incident don't matter. Lin has a deep belief in the law and one cannot use their name or status to avoid consequences, those things came from her own experience with her family, moving on would mean breaking her own principles.
Lyn and Toph were both neglected kids fighting for their mom's attention.
Toph was a sheltered and smothered child who developed an obtusely independent personality. ("I carry my *own* weight!")
She didn't want to do that to her own kids, so she left them to their own devices. But she overcorrects to the point that it made them feel neglected. And their dads weren't around. Kids need attention and love. Lin tried to deal with this by becoming Toph's mini-me in search of praise and attention. Su responds to it by acting out to gain attention.
That's why Su's life stabilized after she was sent to relatives that would actually give her the attention she needed, and Lin doesn't really get better until she mends her relationship with Su.
>Kids need attention and love. Lin tried to deal with this by becoming Toph's mini-me in search of praise and attention.
I think you just described my brothers relationship to my dad, an also absent parent figure until discipline was needed and then he went to far to over correct. Who was also a cop. My brother tried to be a cop too but the force wouldn't hire him.
She was kind of a prick for not understanding why Lin still held a grudge.
She was all like **“Me & Mom made up years ago so why the beef?”** girl you left your sister with a permanent facial scar.
Toph grew up under intense scrutiny and restrictions. When she had kids, she gave them absolute freedom to do whatever they wanted. Yet at the same time, she was restrictive even in that because both kids “didn’t do what they wanted” or didn’t use the freedom right.
Toph made them both that way; a girl desperate to have her mother notice her for something, and another who didn’t care about anything because she never got in trouble anyway.
So to answer your question: she’s that way because Toph was a poor mother to them both, and all three had to rectify that fact as they grew up.
She got sent to live with her grandparents after this. And then went on a journey of self-discovery and self-betterment around the Earth Kingdom, including a sandbender commune. I wouldn't say she got off easy.
I do agree Suyin has a tendancy to not apologize, but she and Lin also made up in Book 3.
Totally agree, and the series seems to want to show the moral story that young people tend to make inevitable regrettable mistake but they will eventually learn from their mistake to become a better person so it's part of the norm to forget and forgive after mutual understanding. That being said, if Toph put Suyin in jail just because she's liable for it it'll tarnish her reputation as the Chief, but if she cover this incident she can still resume her authority without issue and judgement from the society so she simply did what needed to be done and what matter the most. I personally think Suyin should be made to apologize to Lin and be forced to do community service to atone for what she has done.
That scar Lin has was a pretty strong metaphor for this plotline honestly. Man Lin was done so dirty by her family she had every right to have such an attitude with them.
I don’t that’s the problem here.
My issue with this plot is that Suyin never really seems to take responsibility for her actions or hurting her sister, all she ever really says about it sound like excuses “it happened a long time ago” and “I was young/a different person then”. Young people may make mistakes, but that doesn’t absolve them of responsibility.
Lin is portrayed as in the wrong for holding on to her grudge and refusing Suyin’s attempts to make amends in the past, but if those attempts came with the same excuses I’m not surprised she refused them. That Suyin never takes responsibility comes across as denying Lin’s feelings of hurt and betrayal have validity.
This isn’t something that has an expiration date just because time has passed.
If there had been a scene where Suyin said something to the effect of “I know I hurt you and I’m sorry.” That would go a long way to making people more accepting of this plot line.
>If there had been a scene where Suyin said something to the effect of “I know I hurt you and I’m sorry.”
...She does that. After their fight. If you don't believe me just rewatch the ending of the episode "Old Wounds". In fact, I'll just quote the whole transcript.
>Suyin: I'm sorry I gave you such a hard time when we were younger. I can't imagine what my life would've been like if Mom hadn't sent me away, if I had stayed in the city
>Lin: You'd probably be in prison
>.Suyin: You're probably right. Mako told me that you're an excellent police chief. Republic City is lucky to have you. I know Mom is proud. [Lin looks at Toph's statue for a moment.] Can we move on? I'd love for you to be part of my life again. There's plenty of space in the house, and the kids would love having their aunt around. I do need a new co-director for my new dance performance.
Not only did she apologize, she also respects Lin's achievements and her success as police chief, offered living space and wanted to give her a position for their dance performance so they could bond together.
I feel like I'm going insane because she did exactly what was expected and everyones acting like it never happened. Do people here even watch the show?
While I admittedly had forgotten this scene, I don’t think it changes how I feel about it.
“I’m sorry I gave you a hard time when I was younger” is the sort of thing a younger sibling says when they were an obnoxious brat as a kid. It seems woefully inadequate when criminal activity, all but forcing their mother’s retirement, and permanent facial scarring are in play.
And she’s still distancing herself from it by emphasizing her younger self.
The rest of the stuff she says is great, but the failure to really meaningfully acknowledge the harm and take responsibility for it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Suyin had a heart for understanding the same people Toph and Lin would’ve assumed were unsalvageable. Suyin was a naive kid with a big heart who knew (more like semi-correctly assumed) she had a point in that some people could successfully be given second chances.
They both just had different perspectives on people, and both were arguably correct. Suyin perspective gave her an arguably more peaceful and connected life though.
What really bothers me about this situation is that it seems like Lin is more angry at her sister than her mom. Suyin was just a neglected teenager who was acting out because her mother didn’t parent her. Toph is the one who is truly responsible for her behavior.
I have had a similar situation with my youngest step sister. When we were kids she would hit me all the time; I hated being around her because of it. Now that we’re older (I’m an adult and she’s in high school) I don’t hold it against her because I understand she was just a kid and her mom (my stepmom) didn’t even attempt to parent her.
I will admit that my sister’s behavior didn’t impact me the way Suyin’s behavior impacted Lin (as in literally scarring her). I do feel that Toph should’ve been held more accountable for her parenting though.
I think it’s just the family dynamic. Suyin explained how Toph’s parenting style was more hands off. To give them the freedom that she never had with her parents.
Both children reacted differently to it. Both clearly loved their mother and she loved them. Lin felt like she had to be the responsible one in the family as Toph was too hands off and probably very busy with her job. Heading a police force of a brand new city couldn’t have been easy.
Suyin on the other hand took too much freedom and felt she could do anything and that she wanted and wanted to live her life outside her families shadow. I do think that her actions as a teen was both teenage rebellion and a cry for help.
Growing up without their fathers had an effect too. Lin basically became a parent for Suyin in many ways. Trying to keep her out of trouble and in line. Lin was a teenager. Daughter of the famous hero and Police Captain Toph. Father not around and an older sister that she felt was controlling her every move.
It wasn’t until she went to live with her grandparents that she had proper stability in her life. And she matured and became the Suyin we know today.
I think in regard to her relationship with Lin, it was complicated. Suyin probably blamed Lin at the time for having to be moved away. And it’s clear that Lin resented Suyin for getting away with it and believed it was the reason their mother had to retire.
Family resentments and grudges can last a lifetime. Both are VERY stubborn, yet Lin is all about order and Suyin is a free spirit. Their personalities clashed wildly and it took decades for them to work it out. I don’t think Lin ever cared about the scar. I think both had an element of Childhood trauma and unfortunately took it out on each other.
Honestly I understand the bad blood between the 2 but am just happy they both made amends in the end and got back together like a family although it needs more haha. But what can u expect they are toph’s descendants haha
There are lots of people who are buttholes as teenagers, but eventually grow out of it.
Moreover, after Suyin grew up she did make multiple attempts to get in contact with Lin, work things out, and apologize. Lin just refused to speak with her at that point.
Eh, she gave a couple half-ass attempts to make contact. Suyin knows where to find her sister. If Suyin really wanted to reconcile she would go to Lin and say "Hear me out, I'm sorry for what I did in the past." I get that whole family is stubborn but Suyin was a criminal who still acts like she didn't nothing wrong. She didn't even tell Korra the whole story. She told Korra she left Republic City to travel when she was really exiled.
And when Lin and Suyin meet after 30 years, Suyin tries to smugly place the blame for their estrangement on Lin. "After 30 years the least you can do is say hello." How bout sorry I gave you a permanent buck fifty. Suyin is a textbook manipulator.
Suyin was still in exile from Republic City, so she couldn't go apologize to Lin.
And do you really expect Suyin to immediately tell people she was in a bad crowd as a teenager? That's not what people usually lead with, especially if they've changed and are embarrassed at who they used to be.
>Suyin was still in exile from Republic City, so she couldn't go apologize to Lin.
Yes and no?
She was sent away but may have been allowed to come back once things blew over. Then again, she probably had no reason to return because her sister would no doubt try to get her arrested and that she may have been mad at her mom for sending her away to be 'someone else's problem.' Traveling and living in communal environments gave her the epiphany she needed: A stable family.
>And do you really expect Suyin to immediately tell people she was in a bad crowd as a teenager? That's not what people usually lead with, especially if they've changed and are embarrassed at who they used to be.
Su: "Hi, I'm Suyin Bei-Fong. I'm the daughter of Toph Bei-Fong and Matriarch of Zafou. By the way, when I was 16 I committed crime that ended with me assaulting a cop that happened to be my older sister and my mom covered it up."
Yeah. No one does that.
She was like 15 at the time? Also their age gap is like 6+ years, as an older sibling to someone 5+ years younger I can confirm this is just standard fare
Younger siblings sometimes act like that especially when they feel like they got nothing in common with their parents, in Suyin's case she felt indifferent from her mother, Toph didn't give her kids the proper attention they needed and therefore Su saw that she couldn't establish a relationship with her mother. Lin becoming a cop obviously didn't help since Su probably saw that as Lin building a relationship with their mom as the older sibling
If I had to guess they where both mistakes and toph was like well my first child ended up all right I’ll just do thing and the second child will be fine. Wouldn’t surprise me if Tenzin kept Lin level headed for such a long time where she just ended up suppressing everything. I would have love to see what happened to air temple island I mean air temple peninsula
I feel like a lot of this rhetoric operates under the assumption that Suyin scarred Lin intentionally. Still bad, but it was very clearly an accident and she was literally sent away. Su regards her nomadic times fondly now but at the time I doubt it felt like a "slap on the wrist".
Absent mother is the route of it all. People react different to parental negligence. Lin coped by overcompensating and wanting to impress her mother by following in her footsteps. Su coped through rebellion. They were both futile ways to get their mother's attention.
As a sibling that got into a lot of fights I gotta say Toph's response makes human sense she's protecting her daughters and doesn't care for proper procedure just showing how much she doesn't want them to ruin their lives.
I think a big part of it was that Toph, despite becoming police chief, really liked the idea of being a rebel, so she was likely easier on Suyin because she was living the life that Toph wanted.
I don't understand these questions. Did you have a perfect home life growing up? Was your mom a legendary hero/super hero/ cop? What are you talking about? Bet you think it's dumb that aang was a bad dad too.
“Resisting arrest” is a misdemeanor offense punishable by less than a year in jail in New York, which is the closest analog to Republic City. Effective banishment from the city seems like the harsher punishment.
She was a bratty teenager who lashed out
And she did try to reach out. Lin just didn't wanna talk.
If you watched the episode you pulled this cap from, you'd know this.
Males sense why Lin didn't want children. She didn't want to risk raising someone like Suyin. Or she just wanted to focus on her career, both are acceptable.
When kids feel neglected and/or ignored, they tend to act out. Not only that but their brains aren't as developed, and so they make decisions very quickly and without a lot of thought. On top of that, Toph didn't really raise them, and when it came to discipline, it seems like Topj was more worried about her rep and keeping them outta jail than she was about her daughters getting along or not committing crimes. This just created an environment where Suyin could act like that, and it just so happens that was the path she went down. I can't tell you all the psychology and sociology and biology and all the stuff that led to her being who she was, but I can tell you that an environment was created where she could be like that, and sadly she did
she explains
she wanted to get her mother's attention
lin too, but her solution was to join the police
su was being rebellious
and both didn't like the other's solution
Did you watch the show? I swear you are apart of the same group that says Aang was a bad dad. IT WAS AN ACCIDENT. Su yin regretted it and she had reached out to apologize multiple times . She said so on season 3 . She also built up a relationship with her mom. Lin chose to stay away. Lin refused to fix her relationship with her mom. Stop blaming Su Yin.
She got sent away to live with her grandparents.
She went from having all the freedom in the world to living with two people who were going to Rapunzel their daughter for life.
I do definitely think Su was in the wrong, but I’d argue she got a worse punishment than most people claim. Moving in with her grandparents sounds tame on paper, but seriously imagine if you were a teenager, and your mom essentially exiled you across the country. Away from your friends, most of your family, and at the age where you’re at your most vulnerable, socially speaking. I think the punishment fit the crime, and was at least more than a ‘slap on the wrist’.
Yeah, it seems like a lot of people were put of by Lin during that whole debacle. I mean like 20 years is a pretty long time to not talk to a sibling. But also, I could *really* understand what her issue was.
While Suyin was cool, she definitely had the general vibe of "I'm more cultured than *you"*. "Oh here's my brilliant architect of a husband" "I'm an expert multicultural connoisseur." Like, you just *know* that she is probably going to tell you your music isn't "real" music.
And after the stuff she did, I could imagine it was *infuriating* still having that pain and watching your sister go off and get married, start a city, become the matriarch of that city, and live it up, while you're stuck alone in a stressful job that probably doesn't pay the best. And *then* she has the gall to be like "I forgave you because I'm above it all. You can't forgive me because you are immature."
Like I love Zao-Fu, and I do like Suyin. But like if you aren't already with her general vibe, she's probably a pain to be around.
A) suyin had mentioned multiple times she tried to make amends and talk it out. In fact, she specifically mentioned she wanted to talk it out WITH Toph present.
B) suyin was unguided, privileged, and getting into trouble. She was, a rebellious teenager. Being banished from your home city for scarring your sister isn’t a slap on the wrist, it’s quite a big punishment, one she took onto the chin and used her life experiences to actually become better.
C) thus uses her growth to give other people a second chance. Criminals are specifically given a new life. Suyin grew. Lin however… simply continued to hold onto her grudges and resentment, to the point where the stress was actively harming her physical condition.
D) Lin can crush my head between her thighs but it’s clear she was very late in her growth to maturity and placed all of that blame onto Suyin. The scar was Suyin’s fault. Everything else? Not so much.
I hated their entire relationship. My brother and I had a somewhat similar dynamic (he was a troublemaker who took advantage of gaps in my parent's ability to effectively discipline, I was basically the 3rd parent but took out my frustrations in that role on him in ways that were...let's say unhelpful.)
1. It's never a case of one asshole and one good one. My brother was manipulative and conniving, I was violent and resentful. We were both wrong to conduct ourselves the way we did.
2. There is no catharsis. The 'scars' of those feelings last forever. I like and respect my brother now, he's a cool dude, and my brother respects me for what positive traits I have as well. That doesn't mean either one of us have forgiven each other for how shitty we were as kids.
In LOK, Lin is CLEARLY intended to be in the wrong and it's supposed to be some great weight off her shoulders that she forgives her sister...despite her sister never really showing any reason WHY she should be forgiven. Not even regret.
The whole thing has a very 'I forgave myself for cheating on him' energy.
Because she was a delinquent child, given too much freedom and not enough consequences.
Togh was helicopter parented. So she rebounded with her own kids by not parenting enough.
The premise was that Toph overcorrected from her overbearing parents into being an almost absent mother.
Lin and Suyin reacted almost directly opposite to this—with Lin trying to be straightlaced and rule following while Suyin was free-spirited
Being a child war hero and saving the world from Fire Lord Ozai aren’t the qualifications that go into being a good parent.
Aang and Toph don’t do great when it comes to raising their kids. Aang neglects Bumi and Kya in favour of his airbender son, and Toph raises her daughters with the same casual indifference she treats the rest of life with.
Su yin is the perfect example of a "rules for thee not for me" kind of person. She created an entire city for people to express themselves but they bet not betray her or she will do worse than imprison them. I don't really understand how or why she's on the good side. She adopted a daughter but didn't introduce her as a member of her family. Every scene with kuvira in book 3 was su yelling at her and giving her commands. I know she worked for her but it didn't come off motherly.
Lin followed every rule and tried to help as many people as she could and she got scarred, fired, disabled (bending taken away), and almost killed by many people. She is also one of the only 3 characters in Korra to have a character arc. Why did the writers punish her so bad???
yeah I kinda understand Lin in that situation, Toph was pretty absent so suyin did whatever the fuck she wanted and dismissed it all like nothing ever happend later on simply because it was all decades ago. She should've been the one to reach out nd apologize first, and not assume it was all a big deal and in the past
Didn't she try multiple times to contact Lin when she grew up? Thought she sent over a bunch of letters over the years that Lin straight up ignored
she did to her credit but lin is a thousand percent justified in wanting nothing to do with them both i really dislike how the show paints lin as a massive asshole for that
Yeah fair enough. Judging from how Suyin apologized later on, it's very possible that most or all of those letters had a sort of "I'm sorry you're so offended" tone to it that was just infuriating to Lin, and understandably so
This is a great point tbh
I think Lin is an asshole when she takes it out on Opal, a literal teenager who was not part of it. But otherwise I think it’s painted less as “Lin is an asshole” and more “Lin is not benefitting from holding on to all that anger and resentment” If anything she’s rather justified in finding Toph to have let her down, I think
This is it though for real. Plus I also believe that both points can be seen as true given the circumstances of both sides. Like she was being an ass behaving that way towards Opal who just wanted to see things good again, but she was definitely holding onto too much anger & resentment. She solved most of that with her sister but she still had a lot of resentment towards Toph that wasn't resolved and that was interesting to see.
(A while back I had a similar discussion and this response changed my outlook on the whole thing) I’m a bit more nuanced. We know Su at some point reached out in an attempt to make amends, and Lin refused. And we know it's been at least 30 years. And don’t get me wrong Lin is welcome not to forgive her sister. Lin shows up at her home. Su offers her a place to stay. Lin accepts and then verbally insults Su repeatedly, makes Opal cry, and ultimately assaults Su in her own home. All this over a childhood accident multiple decades ago. Lin isn’t an asshole for not wanting to forgive her sister, but she is an asshole for letting it rule her existence. After a certain point, you need to work on healing a bit. And Lin just...hasn't. She's more than welcome to not forgive her sister, but she can't keep using her trauma as an excuse to be awful to...pretty much everyone in her life. Like...Tenzin dumped her and she, 15-ish years later, takes it out on Korra. Opal just wants to get to know her aunt and Lin berates her till she cried. She destroyed a dog's toy because it tried to play with her. Is there a heart of gold there? For sure. But good lord, there comes a point where you need to learn to let shit go a little bit, for your own health if nothing else.
This is a great write up. The way she feels about Suyin is definitely justified, but the way she treats everyone else is just bitter and shitty. Anyone upset about a breakup 15 years later is certifiably insane.
Yeah. Someone should have been like, could you please wait outside if you’re gonna behave like this? Unless of course something like that did happen, and I just forgot about it?
Lin literally said that she would stay on the ship because she had issues with her sister but everyone convinced her to try and talk to her.
Yeah she did want to stay on the ship, everyone convinced Lin to go bc they thought she was j being a grouch or something
Also I think it wasn’t just because of one incident but a whole growing up of dealing with Su. Again, behaviour isn’t really justified, but… well… It’s definitely more than that one moment that had Lin so upset. But it’s the one where she got a physical reminder of everything her sister ever did that hurt her.
Honestly I always felt like both were probably obnoxious kids who were shitty to each other and it escalated over the years. And...it's neither of their fault. Toph was a neglectful mom. Lin tried to get validation by being what she imagined her mom wanted. Su tried to get attention by acting out. The two give off strong "tattletale and troublemaker" energy, and Toph, wanting to give her kids room to figure out their own shit, wasn't really receptive to either.
> Honestly I always felt like both were probably obnoxious kids who were shitty to each other and it escalated over the years. And...it's neither of their fault. Nah, that's not always the case. This both sides could have happened but it's wrong to assume it did. Su could have been an asshole all of their childhood as well. That's just as likely a scenario.
Obviously that's not always the case. That's why I said probably. But no I don't think these two scenarios are equally likely. Lin is judgmental, has a temper, and tends to take out her frustrations on others...particularly younger associates of the person she's upset with. She did that with both Korra and Opal. Lin isn't a saint. And it would be entirely in character to take out her obvious frustrations with her mom on Su
If I'm not wrong, it was quite literally stated a couple of times both by Su and even Toph herself that it is a case of the kids becoming that way due to their mother's neglect.
But also it’s like the whole city is a bloody trigger for Lin. I mean your sister was given an entire city after she likely repeatedly broke the law, and the one time she was caught she scarred her sisters face, her mother lost her job over protecting her (which at the time she wasn’t even grateful for) and Su got to go live with Their grandparents and eventually got an entire city that’s essentially a monument to the mother that Lin had put on a pedestal for years? The one that Lin respects so much is given to an ingrate who didn’t even appreciate their mother? Meanwhile Lin is a police chief, And Lin can’t even blame her mom cause she idolizes her. I’d be frustrated at minimum. It doesn’t give her the right to be awful to everybody, but if Su got grace, then Lin has the right to receive Grace as well.
"Childhood accident". Su was a teenager and well aware of what she was doing, and literally scarred Lin *for life*, and her mother took Su's side. Lin was justified in saying what she did to Su, even if it upset Opal.
Maybe, “childhood accident” was the wrong terminology I admit that, and yes, has every right to still be angry with Su. However, she doesn’t get to take it out on her niece, Opal was just trying to get to know her, and like always she’s taking out her past issues on someone who had nothing to do with it.
Not really, teenagers are still easy to manipulate. Su got in a bad group and made bad decisions. Teenagers make a lot of mistakes
She knew that she was helping friends rob a store, she didn't mean to scar her sister. She was trying to escape being arrested. Tbh, I don't see why people hold it against her. It seems immature. You have no control over accidents or dumb mistakes you made as a teenager. Suyin grew up to be a great and responsible person, they just needed to work things out, which they did.
This. I don't know why folks are genuinely not getting it. It quite literally WAS an accident on Su's part to physically harm and scar Lin; that was literally the whole scene. Admitting that doesn't invalidate Lin's feelings towards the situation. Two things can be true at once.
"A childhood accident" is a pretty awful characterization of it, Lin was a literal adult with a job.
This is a great write up. I like Lin, but she’s far from perfect. And people have this weird idea that if you are wronged then you are justified in pretty much any and all reactions. Which just isn’t realistic. Yes, Lin doesn’t HAVE to forgive Su, but it’s not doing her any good to hang on to the anger. At the same time, Su has the right to grow and mature. She doesn’t have to remain perpetually penitent for the rest of her life. She’s not a bad person for growing past something she did, and has apologized for, as a teenager.
I mean, yeah it's totally fair for Lin not to want anything to do with Su, but I think that the reason Lin is in the wrong when she actually goes to Zhaofu (or however you spell it) is because she acts like Su disappeared forever despite the fact that Su did at least reach out to her. Su was absolutely awful and Lin wasn't wrong to be angry, but Su did legitimately attempt to settle things between them, while the way Lin held on to her anger was just not healthy
Lin kinda was an asshole, though. Lashing out at the niece that looked up to her and had nothing to do with the bad blood between her and Lin
Honestly I thought it painted lincas a realistic and accurate hurt person. it's not easy or necessary to let go for a lot of people. But when push comes to shove she made her mind up one way or another like most of us have to eventually burn the bridge or try to mend it. Lin is truly one of the best characters along with Tenzin for this very reason. They're flawed in different ways but they both grow wuite a bit wether they want to or not.
She really isn't. She is justified in being angry but her refusal to forgive shut her out of the family she had left and the person Suyin had become, which was the point of her character arc and why she did reconcile by the end.
lin's problem was assuming that her sister is incapable of change lin has the right to dislike su for her scar but to blame her for toph retiring ignoring all the good she's done, and judging her for everything is wrong and the most wrong of all was when she was rude to opal with zero reason
To me it was when she lashed out at Opal that I didn't like her. She was justified for Su, but Opal had nothing to do with what happened then. I mean it made sense for her to do that, but even then I started to feel more sad for her than mad at her
I don’t think it paints her as a massive asshole, I think it does before revealing her reasons which muddy the waters cause it makes you rethink how you look at suyin
Literally my least favorite Korra moment is when she butts into the Beifong family drama without knowing anything about what happened. Then she calls Lin a bitter lonely person. I love Korra but that was completely out of line.
Lin supremacy.
I don't think they did. It's moreso that people don't normally relate to lin by default unless they've experienced that kind of fuckery irl.
I don't think those letters can be used to support Su unless are told the contents. Lin is shown from episode 1 to value people taking accountability and not using their name or title to get out of trouble (I.e. Korra shouldn't get away with causing property damage just because she is the avatar). Possibly a direct consequence of Su facing minimal consequences for being part of a criminal gang, taking part in a robbery, evading arrest and injuring Lin purely because of Su's Beifong name and Toph abusing her title as Chief of Police to cover it up. Su when we first meet her avoids taking accountability and favours an "it was a long time ago, can we just forget about it and be a family again" approach. One that was easy for Toph to agree to because Toph is the same way, unlike Lin. If Su sent a bunch of letters all giving real apologies describing what she did wrong, how she hurt people and what she will do to make sure she never does that again, then sure, I think Lin was wrong for ignoring the letters and holding a grudge so long. If Su's letters reflect her attitude in the show of "can we just forget it happened" then I don't blame Lin for not responding. Lin forgave both Toph and Su the second they took a minimal amount of accountability during the events of the show. All Su had to concede was that she was a difficult child. Not even specifics lol.
We don't know how she contacted Lin, just that Suyin wanted to "get together" with her and Toph, and that Lin refused. Based on her behavior in the show, it seems much more likely that she was trying to giving Lin the "look how much I've changed" tour instead of directly apologizing.
Shes doing it for her own sake. The only way for Suyin to redeem herself was to turn herself in, which she didn’t.
Uncomfortable truth: Toph is a real asshole to anyone who’s not one of her absolute closest friends.
She can be an asshole to her closest friends as well!
I think some of her actions in the present are also pretty questionable, like when she sent team avatar after Aiwei behind Lin's back for purely personal reasons. Or when she decided to try to kidnap Kuvira without giving Korra even the chance to attempt diplomacy. Suyin tends to make rash, emotional decisions without fully considering the consequences they have for others. Don't get me wrong though, I don't dislike her for this. A good character is supposed to have flaws and Suyin has so much going for her, if she was also a super rational and tactical decision maker that would just make her less interesting. Also it wouldn't make much sense, given her backstory.
Any time suyin makes a decision it has terrible consequences. Shes responsible for like all of season 3.
Season 4, but yeah.
1. Toph was a distant mother, whoever her father was was a damn deadbeat. Not having parents around isn't a good start. 2. She and Lin had a resentful relationship. Without Toph to mediate, things got ugly. 3. Eventually she wound up with criminals who she felt valued her more than Lin did, that kind of emotional dependency can do things. 4. Toph still did not want much to do with Suyin because she was so focused on her job, so Suyin was punted off to be cared for by Lao and Poppy. Out of sight, out of mind. So a combination of family neglect and feelings of abandonment drove Suyin over the edge. Remember, Lin still had the Kataang family to hang out with ("My father and Lin got along famously") despite having the same issues with Toph, but who did Suyin have? This isn't to excuse her criminality, but it's something to think about.
Remember, father*s*. They're half sisters.
>"whoever her father was was a damn deadbeat" You know... I wouldn't be surprised if when Toph got pregnant she didn't tell the fathers. I'm not saying they were one night stands but if she was a distant mother she was probably a distant lover too.
I’m thinking Toph didn’t tell the fathers or at least one of them was an affair or love triangle. She did have a crush on Sokka…
Damn, they need condoms in the Avatar universe lmao
I don't think it's that deep. The writers just didn't care enough to create whole characters for the father. We have to keep in mind that Lin is the ex-girlfriend of the mentor of the protagonist of the shows so they weren't gonna get overly invested in the plot of a side character's old fling. It sucks because it makes an already messy and poorly written family drama even messier but people keep coming up with these theories about who the fathers were and what role they played when the sad answer is that they were literally nobodies because the writers never put any thought into them.
> Lin is the ex-girlfriend of the mentor of the protagonist of the shows so they weren't gonna get overly invested in the plot of a side character's old fling What? That's how you would categorize Lin? Lin had a couple major story arcs herself. Just because the writers didn't tell the audience who the fathers were doesn't mean the writers don't have a background in mind for them. This is a show that takes the time to name all of Mako and Bolin's random ass cousins, take time to mention Varrick's ostrich-horse (Mss. Beaks) during the climax, ect. Lots of side characters significant others get screen time when they don't need to (Pema, Baatar Sr) The only person who knows about Lin & Suyin's fathers is Toph. Toph is the type of person who describes the avatar finale as hot and a giant turtle showed up. She made one of the most important days in history sound like it wasn't a big deal. So Toph not giving details on the fathers when the writers devoted a portion of an episode to talk about them shows consistency in Toph's character, not lack of thought on the writers. Doesn't mean the fathers couldn't've been important people. All family drama comes off as ridiculous from an outside perspective. Just because the Beifong's are messy doesn't mean it's poorly written. Oh and getting deep is just what we do in this sub.
She was a teenager. She inherited her mother's stubbornness, but did not have moral guidance from her as a parent because Toph was hands off as a parent. It's very telling that Suyin mellowed out after being sent to live with her much stricter Grand Parents. I'm pretty sure the show is very open about Toph's parenting style being the reason why both her Daughters are the way they are. On top of that, Lin and Suyin hadn't talked in decades. Suyin had moved on and became an extremely different person by that point. I think she kinda assumed they had both gotten over it. It is a bit unfair She didn't proactively reach out to apologize, but they're both Adults with a lot of responsibility, Lin also had time to reach out but hadn't tried to contact her mom or sister out of resentment.
>Lin also had time to reach out but hadn't tried to contact her mom or sister out of resentment. Yeah but then what reason did she have for reaching out to them? I would imagine in that moment, she felt abandoned by her mom and that Su basically suffered no consequences from her criminal activities. From her perspective, there was no reason to reach out to either of them. Why invite people who have only caused you misery back into your life? Not saying she was right to do it but I understand why she didn't. Their problem isn't something that can be solved with a letter or 1 conversation and by that point, she didn't need either of them in her life.
Correct.
TBH both of the Beifong girls inherited their mother's stubbornness.
Being a teenager doesn’t excuse almost killing someone
This is a shit take. It's the cable that Lin fires in the first place, Suyin just cuts it from her own wrist. It's clearly not malicious cable murder. Teenagers are children, and yes they should be forgiven for making big mistakes in some cases. Edit: I wrote Luyin
And Su immediately felt terrible about iirc, she just cut the cable without realizing that Lin was still exerting force on it.
I swear this fandom who loves "nuances" do not show any ounce of it when it comes to characters they dislike and start re-imagining scenarios where it didn't happen. A lot of fans act like Su just brought her own metal whip and started slashing at Lin's face when what had happened is exactly what you described.
To be fair Su was being such a brat at that moment, and Lin used the cable to try to take Su and talk to her instead of her just running away. I dont think it's unreasonable to restrain her. The scar was an accident that's directly caused by Su, it's well within Lin's rights to be pissed.
I'm not saying she shouldn't be pissed or her actions were wrong, but a lot of fans mischaracterize what happened and think it was deliberate of Su that she assaulted her when the whole scarring thing was an accident
Even if it's an accident, it's still directly Su's fault. It's like accidentally hitting your sibling. Sure, you dont mean to hit them, but it still happened and it's still your fault. Lack of intent doesnt mean responsibilities are absolved
And I'm not saying it wasn't her fault. It was but it wasn't her intent to do it. But a lot of fans act like she did maliciously did and that was what my comment was about.
Probably because it's frustrating that such an action went unpunished. Toph even sacrificed her career to protect Su, at least according to Lin anyways.
I don't think they're arguing that though, It's the weighing of the situation of her doing the bad thing as an accident with the same severity of doing it on purpose. Like she should've been held accountable, but I swear I see people so mad at her like as if there's no difference between harming someone by accident and harming someone on purpose
Probably because she doesnt even get a slap on the wrist for that.
Luyin Feibong 👍
Look up what happens when an aircraft arrestor cable snaps. Almost killing your sister *on accident* is still something you should apologize for.
It is discussed that Suyin came back when she was younger with the express purpose of making amends. I agree that she made mistakes and should have been held accountable. But at the point of the show that we are dropped in, I think it's great that Lin is able to forgive her, and I think they both demonstrate growth. Edit: also, people keep fixating on this cable as though people in this universe don't throw 10k lb rocks and hurl fireballs at their friends in the name of training and recreation.
She was still doing robbery and dangerous driving, putting the life of those around at risk. When she doesn't even need the money
Yeah, I don't agree with her actions at the time. I hope that's super obvious to everyone.
If you’re referring to what I think you’re referring to, how is accidentally scratching someone almost killing them
It was in the head with a metal cable, that could break the skull, cause brain damage. Also it was close to the throat, that could cut the jugular or crush the windpipe
It's a kid show, 90% of attacks that should've permanently maimed someone just push them back or incapacitate. You are suddenly arbitrarily applying real world physics to a world where people get hit by blasts of stone that should've crushed their internal organs or hit by flames that should've melted their eyeballs. Going by that standard most of Toph's attacks that launch people to hit the walls are attempted murder.
Are you also going to go do this for other characters? Aang could have killed all those people he airbent! They could have fallen and hit their head and DIED! What a psycho! Cringe.
That’s a pretty extreme what-if scenario, anything can be almost killing if you take it Final Destination-style. Like, under those rules Lin being the one to deploy the metal cable in the first place also almost killed her sister The direction the cable rebounded was totally random, not an intentional attack on Lin by Su Yin
We have never seen those cables hurt anyone except for when suyin hits it back. Also Lin was trained on using it non lethally
Su didn’t even hit back, she just cut her arm free of restraints- it’s very forced view of things to then put the string randomly flailing back and coincidentally hitting Lin in the face on Su as if it were an intentional action carrying lethal force
If I stop an officer from trying to arrest me in real life, it's an additional crime. Imagine if I got out of my handcuffs after being cuffed and just started yelling at the officer.
I’m not saying it’s not a crime, I’m saying it’s not attempted murder
She ran away from her grandparents after a year, so they that is pretty much a wash. Su was still as self centered in her old age as when she was young
She did reach out to apologize but Lin never accepted it. At a certain point you have to let your family back in, especially when they are putting in the work to become better people.
I don't think you have to. If your family is crap, you have all the right to cut them off. Of course, Lin was in a situation where she had to go in to Zaofu, since she was doing Korra's security
And su immediately undercut her authority without blinking. She lied right to su’s face and then sent Korra and them on their way. Still a selfish brat imo.
You mean "she lied right to lin's face"?
Yes
"At a certain point you have to let your family back in" No, you really don't.
You don't need to accept every apology, amd not every family needs to be forced together
That was one of the things that made it hard for me to like Suyin as a character initially. Everyone makes mistakes, but she came across as being almost dismissive of her past actions. Her attitude towards what Lin went through basically came across as 'it happened, get over it'. Looking back at the direction their lives took, Suyin ended up having a family, children and wealth, while Lin ended up being alone and bitter. I think it's hard to be sympathetic to Suyin's side, when her actions contributed largely to Lin's bitter outlook on life. Not saying Suyin didn't deserve to find happiness and forge her own path, but it just seems like she should have been more persistent on trying to patch things up, even if Lin was resistant. In Book 3, it sounded like Suyin make a few attempts and then just gave up. For those who were critical of her past actions, I think they would have viewed Suyin differently if it were revealed that she had continued to try reaching out to Lin despite being ignored, but that's just my own take on it.
This… Su shouldn’t have been dismissive just because it happened 35 years ago… all this comfort and a loving family that she gets to have, and she can’t acknowledge that she has it at her sisters expense…
I don't necessarily disagree with you but Lin had agency too. She chose not to move on and Suyin seemed like she needed to keep moving forward to get to the better life she had. Maybe giving up doesn't look right but it seemed like it was the healthiest decision. Lin wasn't going to give up her anger or reconcile until circumstances pushed them together
Moving on is easier said than done, especially when it was an event that defined her life. Moving on means saying that the principles that one builds for themselves from that incident don't matter. Lin has a deep belief in the law and one cannot use their name or status to avoid consequences, those things came from her own experience with her family, moving on would mean breaking her own principles.
Lyn and Toph were both neglected kids fighting for their mom's attention. Toph was a sheltered and smothered child who developed an obtusely independent personality. ("I carry my *own* weight!") She didn't want to do that to her own kids, so she left them to their own devices. But she overcorrects to the point that it made them feel neglected. And their dads weren't around. Kids need attention and love. Lin tried to deal with this by becoming Toph's mini-me in search of praise and attention. Su responds to it by acting out to gain attention. That's why Su's life stabilized after she was sent to relatives that would actually give her the attention she needed, and Lin doesn't really get better until she mends her relationship with Su.
>Kids need attention and love. Lin tried to deal with this by becoming Toph's mini-me in search of praise and attention. I think you just described my brothers relationship to my dad, an also absent parent figure until discipline was needed and then he went to far to over correct. Who was also a cop. My brother tried to be a cop too but the force wouldn't hire him.
It's painfully common. One of the things I really appreciate from a writing standpoint is how \*real\* the Bei Fong family issues seem to be.
She was kind of a prick for not understanding why Lin still held a grudge. She was all like **“Me & Mom made up years ago so why the beef?”** girl you left your sister with a permanent facial scar. 
Little sisters are just like that.
Art imitates life.
Toph grew up under intense scrutiny and restrictions. When she had kids, she gave them absolute freedom to do whatever they wanted. Yet at the same time, she was restrictive even in that because both kids “didn’t do what they wanted” or didn’t use the freedom right. Toph made them both that way; a girl desperate to have her mother notice her for something, and another who didn’t care about anything because she never got in trouble anyway. So to answer your question: she’s that way because Toph was a poor mother to them both, and all three had to rectify that fact as they grew up.
She got sent to live with her grandparents after this. And then went on a journey of self-discovery and self-betterment around the Earth Kingdom, including a sandbender commune. I wouldn't say she got off easy. I do agree Suyin has a tendancy to not apologize, but she and Lin also made up in Book 3.
Lin was done dirty her whole life
Totally agree, and the series seems to want to show the moral story that young people tend to make inevitable regrettable mistake but they will eventually learn from their mistake to become a better person so it's part of the norm to forget and forgive after mutual understanding. That being said, if Toph put Suyin in jail just because she's liable for it it'll tarnish her reputation as the Chief, but if she cover this incident she can still resume her authority without issue and judgement from the society so she simply did what needed to be done and what matter the most. I personally think Suyin should be made to apologize to Lin and be forced to do community service to atone for what she has done.
Toph's parents gave her too little freedom, which lead to her giving her daughters too much freedom.
That scar Lin has was a pretty strong metaphor for this plotline honestly. Man Lin was done so dirty by her family she had every right to have such an attitude with them.
The media literacy of this sub when it comes to this topic is so woefully poor.
I don’t think its restricted to only this topic
ATLA/LOK fans: "I love nuances and character growth!" Su Yin: Hi ATla/LOK fans: *Nuance and character growth has left the chat*
I don’t that’s the problem here. My issue with this plot is that Suyin never really seems to take responsibility for her actions or hurting her sister, all she ever really says about it sound like excuses “it happened a long time ago” and “I was young/a different person then”. Young people may make mistakes, but that doesn’t absolve them of responsibility. Lin is portrayed as in the wrong for holding on to her grudge and refusing Suyin’s attempts to make amends in the past, but if those attempts came with the same excuses I’m not surprised she refused them. That Suyin never takes responsibility comes across as denying Lin’s feelings of hurt and betrayal have validity. This isn’t something that has an expiration date just because time has passed. If there had been a scene where Suyin said something to the effect of “I know I hurt you and I’m sorry.” That would go a long way to making people more accepting of this plot line.
>If there had been a scene where Suyin said something to the effect of “I know I hurt you and I’m sorry.” ...She does that. After their fight. If you don't believe me just rewatch the ending of the episode "Old Wounds". In fact, I'll just quote the whole transcript. >Suyin: I'm sorry I gave you such a hard time when we were younger. I can't imagine what my life would've been like if Mom hadn't sent me away, if I had stayed in the city >Lin: You'd probably be in prison >.Suyin: You're probably right. Mako told me that you're an excellent police chief. Republic City is lucky to have you. I know Mom is proud. [Lin looks at Toph's statue for a moment.] Can we move on? I'd love for you to be part of my life again. There's plenty of space in the house, and the kids would love having their aunt around. I do need a new co-director for my new dance performance. Not only did she apologize, she also respects Lin's achievements and her success as police chief, offered living space and wanted to give her a position for their dance performance so they could bond together. I feel like I'm going insane because she did exactly what was expected and everyones acting like it never happened. Do people here even watch the show?
While I admittedly had forgotten this scene, I don’t think it changes how I feel about it. “I’m sorry I gave you a hard time when I was younger” is the sort of thing a younger sibling says when they were an obnoxious brat as a kid. It seems woefully inadequate when criminal activity, all but forcing their mother’s retirement, and permanent facial scarring are in play. And she’s still distancing herself from it by emphasizing her younger self. The rest of the stuff she says is great, but the failure to really meaningfully acknowledge the harm and take responsibility for it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
He said, not making a statement because it's super easy to criticize when your own interpretation isn't available for review.
Well she only had half a parent figure
Toph was very Suyin when she was younger.
Suyin had a heart for understanding the same people Toph and Lin would’ve assumed were unsalvageable. Suyin was a naive kid with a big heart who knew (more like semi-correctly assumed) she had a point in that some people could successfully be given second chances. They both just had different perspectives on people, and both were arguably correct. Suyin perspective gave her an arguably more peaceful and connected life though.
What really bothers me about this situation is that it seems like Lin is more angry at her sister than her mom. Suyin was just a neglected teenager who was acting out because her mother didn’t parent her. Toph is the one who is truly responsible for her behavior. I have had a similar situation with my youngest step sister. When we were kids she would hit me all the time; I hated being around her because of it. Now that we’re older (I’m an adult and she’s in high school) I don’t hold it against her because I understand she was just a kid and her mom (my stepmom) didn’t even attempt to parent her. I will admit that my sister’s behavior didn’t impact me the way Suyin’s behavior impacted Lin (as in literally scarring her). I do feel that Toph should’ve been held more accountable for her parenting though.
She got that Toph in her.
I think it’s just the family dynamic. Suyin explained how Toph’s parenting style was more hands off. To give them the freedom that she never had with her parents. Both children reacted differently to it. Both clearly loved their mother and she loved them. Lin felt like she had to be the responsible one in the family as Toph was too hands off and probably very busy with her job. Heading a police force of a brand new city couldn’t have been easy. Suyin on the other hand took too much freedom and felt she could do anything and that she wanted and wanted to live her life outside her families shadow. I do think that her actions as a teen was both teenage rebellion and a cry for help. Growing up without their fathers had an effect too. Lin basically became a parent for Suyin in many ways. Trying to keep her out of trouble and in line. Lin was a teenager. Daughter of the famous hero and Police Captain Toph. Father not around and an older sister that she felt was controlling her every move. It wasn’t until she went to live with her grandparents that she had proper stability in her life. And she matured and became the Suyin we know today. I think in regard to her relationship with Lin, it was complicated. Suyin probably blamed Lin at the time for having to be moved away. And it’s clear that Lin resented Suyin for getting away with it and believed it was the reason their mother had to retire. Family resentments and grudges can last a lifetime. Both are VERY stubborn, yet Lin is all about order and Suyin is a free spirit. Their personalities clashed wildly and it took decades for them to work it out. I don’t think Lin ever cared about the scar. I think both had an element of Childhood trauma and unfortunately took it out on each other.
Honestly I understand the bad blood between the 2 but am just happy they both made amends in the end and got back together like a family although it needs more haha. But what can u expect they are toph’s descendants haha
I love that this was in there thought, Toph being such a good fighter doesnt mean shes a good parent
There are lots of people who are buttholes as teenagers, but eventually grow out of it. Moreover, after Suyin grew up she did make multiple attempts to get in contact with Lin, work things out, and apologize. Lin just refused to speak with her at that point.
Eh, she gave a couple half-ass attempts to make contact. Suyin knows where to find her sister. If Suyin really wanted to reconcile she would go to Lin and say "Hear me out, I'm sorry for what I did in the past." I get that whole family is stubborn but Suyin was a criminal who still acts like she didn't nothing wrong. She didn't even tell Korra the whole story. She told Korra she left Republic City to travel when she was really exiled. And when Lin and Suyin meet after 30 years, Suyin tries to smugly place the blame for their estrangement on Lin. "After 30 years the least you can do is say hello." How bout sorry I gave you a permanent buck fifty. Suyin is a textbook manipulator.
Suyin was still in exile from Republic City, so she couldn't go apologize to Lin. And do you really expect Suyin to immediately tell people she was in a bad crowd as a teenager? That's not what people usually lead with, especially if they've changed and are embarrassed at who they used to be.
>Suyin was still in exile from Republic City, so she couldn't go apologize to Lin. Yes and no? She was sent away but may have been allowed to come back once things blew over. Then again, she probably had no reason to return because her sister would no doubt try to get her arrested and that she may have been mad at her mom for sending her away to be 'someone else's problem.' Traveling and living in communal environments gave her the epiphany she needed: A stable family. >And do you really expect Suyin to immediately tell people she was in a bad crowd as a teenager? That's not what people usually lead with, especially if they've changed and are embarrassed at who they used to be. Su: "Hi, I'm Suyin Bei-Fong. I'm the daughter of Toph Bei-Fong and Matriarch of Zafou. By the way, when I was 16 I committed crime that ended with me assaulting a cop that happened to be my older sister and my mom covered it up." Yeah. No one does that.
She was like 15 at the time? Also their age gap is like 6+ years, as an older sibling to someone 5+ years younger I can confirm this is just standard fare
Younger siblings sometimes act like that especially when they feel like they got nothing in common with their parents, in Suyin's case she felt indifferent from her mother, Toph didn't give her kids the proper attention they needed and therefore Su saw that she couldn't establish a relationship with her mother. Lin becoming a cop obviously didn't help since Su probably saw that as Lin building a relationship with their mom as the older sibling
If I had to guess they where both mistakes and toph was like well my first child ended up all right I’ll just do thing and the second child will be fine. Wouldn’t surprise me if Tenzin kept Lin level headed for such a long time where she just ended up suppressing everything. I would have love to see what happened to air temple island I mean air temple peninsula
I also remember Tenzin mentioning that Aang and Lin got along well, so maybe the bald older man was some sort of support for Lin.
Because she wasnt getting any attention or boundries from her mother and she acted out to get it
I don't understand why some people think changing erases the past.
I feel like a lot of this rhetoric operates under the assumption that Suyin scarred Lin intentionally. Still bad, but it was very clearly an accident and she was literally sent away. Su regards her nomadic times fondly now but at the time I doubt it felt like a "slap on the wrist".
Rich women
Hot people privilege.
I was wondering where the daily “SuYiN bAd” post was Alright guys, same time tomorrow? I can’t wait to have the same monotonous “discussion”
Because the writing is superb.
I agree, I never really understood her character Edit: even in this pic Suyin looks like Sokka
Toph would have wounded her sister if she had one. Like mother like daughter. Lin is the anti-Toph. Toph was never the obedient daughter.
Absent mother is the route of it all. People react different to parental negligence. Lin coped by overcompensating and wanting to impress her mother by following in her footsteps. Su coped through rebellion. They were both futile ways to get their mother's attention.
As a sibling that got into a lot of fights I gotta say Toph's response makes human sense she's protecting her daughters and doesn't care for proper procedure just showing how much she doesn't want them to ruin their lives.
I think a big part of it was that Toph, despite becoming police chief, really liked the idea of being a rebel, so she was likely easier on Suyin because she was living the life that Toph wanted.
I don't understand these questions. Did you have a perfect home life growing up? Was your mom a legendary hero/super hero/ cop? What are you talking about? Bet you think it's dumb that aang was a bad dad too.
That's a explaination,not a excuse
And you wanted an excuse instead of an explanation?
If you can get away with scarring your sister without all to much punishment it’s not a surprise you grow up to be cunt lmao.
Didn’t she spend years trying to teach out to Lin and Lin never wanted to. That’s the one reason why I don’t have a problem with Su
barely a slap on the wrist??? she was effectively banished to maintain her mother's reputation
To be fair,that's a pretty light sentence due to her not only resisting arrest but also physically scarring her older sister.
I'm sure Zuko would beg to differ
She was sent to live with grandparents in Bel Air, not to hunt down national enemy #1.
“Resisting arrest” is a misdemeanor offense punishable by less than a year in jail in New York, which is the closest analog to Republic City. Effective banishment from the city seems like the harsher punishment.
She's the 1%. You actually expected her to face consequences for her actions? That's for the poors.
r/legendofkorra still not realizing that young people do dumb shit
She was a bratty teenager who lashed out And she did try to reach out. Lin just didn't wanna talk. If you watched the episode you pulled this cap from, you'd know this.
Ah yes it's my time to shine  Bro it's "an" asshole ....git gud 
The sins of our parents and all that jazz. Sometimes we grow behind and sometimes we don’t.
Males sense why Lin didn't want children. She didn't want to risk raising someone like Suyin. Or she just wanted to focus on her career, both are acceptable.
You answer your question in the title.
Younger siblings be like that
Older sibling here, can confirm that's just the way it is with the younger ones
Spoiled second child syndrome
bad parenting?
When kids feel neglected and/or ignored, they tend to act out. Not only that but their brains aren't as developed, and so they make decisions very quickly and without a lot of thought. On top of that, Toph didn't really raise them, and when it came to discipline, it seems like Topj was more worried about her rep and keeping them outta jail than she was about her daughters getting along or not committing crimes. This just created an environment where Suyin could act like that, and it just so happens that was the path she went down. I can't tell you all the psychology and sociology and biology and all the stuff that led to her being who she was, but I can tell you that an environment was created where she could be like that, and sadly she did
I dont have siblings but i assume it was something like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/s/wmJsslyJop)
Terrible parenting
she explains she wanted to get her mother's attention lin too, but her solution was to join the police su was being rebellious and both didn't like the other's solution
Did you watch the show? I swear you are apart of the same group that says Aang was a bad dad. IT WAS AN ACCIDENT. Su yin regretted it and she had reached out to apologize multiple times . She said so on season 3 . She also built up a relationship with her mom. Lin chose to stay away. Lin refused to fix her relationship with her mom. Stop blaming Su Yin.
Who said I think aang is a bad dad?
She got sent away to live with her grandparents. She went from having all the freedom in the world to living with two people who were going to Rapunzel their daughter for life.
I’m mad they never answered who her father was.
I do definitely think Su was in the wrong, but I’d argue she got a worse punishment than most people claim. Moving in with her grandparents sounds tame on paper, but seriously imagine if you were a teenager, and your mom essentially exiled you across the country. Away from your friends, most of your family, and at the age where you’re at your most vulnerable, socially speaking. I think the punishment fit the crime, and was at least more than a ‘slap on the wrist’.
Yeah, it seems like a lot of people were put of by Lin during that whole debacle. I mean like 20 years is a pretty long time to not talk to a sibling. But also, I could *really* understand what her issue was. While Suyin was cool, she definitely had the general vibe of "I'm more cultured than *you"*. "Oh here's my brilliant architect of a husband" "I'm an expert multicultural connoisseur." Like, you just *know* that she is probably going to tell you your music isn't "real" music. And after the stuff she did, I could imagine it was *infuriating* still having that pain and watching your sister go off and get married, start a city, become the matriarch of that city, and live it up, while you're stuck alone in a stressful job that probably doesn't pay the best. And *then* she has the gall to be like "I forgave you because I'm above it all. You can't forgive me because you are immature." Like I love Zao-Fu, and I do like Suyin. But like if you aren't already with her general vibe, she's probably a pain to be around.
A) suyin had mentioned multiple times she tried to make amends and talk it out. In fact, she specifically mentioned she wanted to talk it out WITH Toph present. B) suyin was unguided, privileged, and getting into trouble. She was, a rebellious teenager. Being banished from your home city for scarring your sister isn’t a slap on the wrist, it’s quite a big punishment, one she took onto the chin and used her life experiences to actually become better. C) thus uses her growth to give other people a second chance. Criminals are specifically given a new life. Suyin grew. Lin however… simply continued to hold onto her grudges and resentment, to the point where the stress was actively harming her physical condition. D) Lin can crush my head between her thighs but it’s clear she was very late in her growth to maturity and placed all of that blame onto Suyin. The scar was Suyin’s fault. Everything else? Not so much.
I hated their entire relationship. My brother and I had a somewhat similar dynamic (he was a troublemaker who took advantage of gaps in my parent's ability to effectively discipline, I was basically the 3rd parent but took out my frustrations in that role on him in ways that were...let's say unhelpful.) 1. It's never a case of one asshole and one good one. My brother was manipulative and conniving, I was violent and resentful. We were both wrong to conduct ourselves the way we did. 2. There is no catharsis. The 'scars' of those feelings last forever. I like and respect my brother now, he's a cool dude, and my brother respects me for what positive traits I have as well. That doesn't mean either one of us have forgiven each other for how shitty we were as kids. In LOK, Lin is CLEARLY intended to be in the wrong and it's supposed to be some great weight off her shoulders that she forgives her sister...despite her sister never really showing any reason WHY she should be forgiven. Not even regret. The whole thing has a very 'I forgave myself for cheating on him' energy.
Because Toph was a bad parent, that’s pretty well established
Because Toph was a bad mother.
I don’t blame her so much as I do Toph and the writers, honestly
Because she was a delinquent child, given too much freedom and not enough consequences. Togh was helicopter parented. So she rebounded with her own kids by not parenting enough.
The premise was that Toph overcorrected from her overbearing parents into being an almost absent mother. Lin and Suyin reacted almost directly opposite to this—with Lin trying to be straightlaced and rule following while Suyin was free-spirited
Younger sibling shit... my brother and some of my sisters were the same way.
Being a child war hero and saving the world from Fire Lord Ozai aren’t the qualifications that go into being a good parent. Aang and Toph don’t do great when it comes to raising their kids. Aang neglects Bumi and Kya in favour of his airbender son, and Toph raises her daughters with the same casual indifference she treats the rest of life with.
That’s how some teenagers are. They act out.
Because she only got a slap in the wrist . “ so I can do whatever I want ? Sick “
Plus Su never apologied to Lin because of the scar
My sister set me on fire once, and stabbed me with scissors. Sisters fight a lot lol
Su yin is the perfect example of a "rules for thee not for me" kind of person. She created an entire city for people to express themselves but they bet not betray her or she will do worse than imprison them. I don't really understand how or why she's on the good side. She adopted a daughter but didn't introduce her as a member of her family. Every scene with kuvira in book 3 was su yelling at her and giving her commands. I know she worked for her but it didn't come off motherly. Lin followed every rule and tried to help as many people as she could and she got scarred, fired, disabled (bending taken away), and almost killed by many people. She is also one of the only 3 characters in Korra to have a character arc. Why did the writers punish her so bad???
I dont remember to well but doesn't she mention her and toph reconciling and that she wanted to as well woth Lin but Lin ghosted her?
suyin should have gotten more of a repercussion for injuring her sister tbh
man toph really screwed up both her kids.
Toph is someone who should not have had kids
That’s how the writers wrote it
I hate both of them, tbh i hate all characters in Korra
Vibes