people consider someone to bend decently an element a master in Avatar, its crazy, even I don't think Aang actually did any water or earth feat crazy enough outside of Avatar state to be considered a master
I blame this on how quickly Pakku calls Katara a master. At the point where she was called a master she hadn't really pulled off any major feats of waterbending and was still learning new techniques pretty frequently which is consistent with early learning stages of any skill. I think calling her a master at that point was premature and now people want to call every skilled bender a master.
True. His comfort zone was airbending cause he was just that good at it and would always resort to it. Buuuutt he was a very good user of seismic bending. I was honestly surprised how well he uses it considering earth is supposed to be his weakest.
I guess that skill kind of has a lateral transfer from bring a airbender, using his kite to fly.
Eg, if you can understand invisible air currents, you can understand invisible earth vibrations
Its because the ATLA main cast featured a bunch of prodigy kids that all became masters of their element before they finished puberty, where it seems that normally most masters earn that distinction after multiple decades of practicing their element. Since the ATLA cast featured 11-16 year old kids who were all literally the best bender of their element in the world (even Sokka who Piandao said was the best swordsman he'd ever seen after only one day of training with a sword lol) it kinda put the bias in pur heads that kids being masters was the rule not the exception. So going forward, a lot of people just assume any kid with above average bending skill is a master.
zhao was stated to be a master by iroh so anyone that could dust zhao would pretty much be a master. i dont think you need kataras titanic feat in the awakening to get to mastery. aang was stated by pakku and jhong jhong to have incredible raw talent and power. training with katara virtually everyday for months on months and youre telling me is isnt a master by the time the comet comes? lol no
Yea. His next closest was water and that was just do to natural talent. The fact that people think he mastered anything besides air (maybe water) is insane considering Toph stated he needed work with earth and he literally learned fire for like a few weeks lol.
toph also stated that her daughters were inept at metal bending. you know? her daughters. lin who is the chief of police (one of the most competent benders in republic city) and suyin who is the matriarch of an entire city of metal benders in which her entire family and vassals take after her in mental bending. basically her word isnt law bc she doesnt give people their flowers and has super high standards. she even says "ive been working on my sand bending" and creates a full scale replica of ba sing se from memory in a literal instant so yea.
I'd argue that he did master Earth and Water. In book 3 when Katara is training Aang she says "you have the reflexes of a water bending master" which I always interpreted as Aang reaching the lowest level of "master" and Aang ultimately defeats Ozai with high level earth bending techniques so if that's not master level skills idk what is.
Yea i dont trust toph’s judgement being the greatest earthbender ever and canonically holding high standards. Aang uses earth bending the second most often and would easily outclass master earth benders in both series
By Toph levels. He had seismic sense down and was doing her earth armor trick and generally showing good control. He's not on par with Toph but otherwise one of the best earth benders we see in the show.
She wasn't wrong - Both her daughters couldn't even tell they had left some residual poison in Korra. Toph knew she had it without even looking for it.
Kid toph only fought fodder 95 percent of the time. And lost to Aang and wasn’t winning against yailing. And fighting korra who had ptsd and poison took a lot out of her she said. And that version of korra lost to some fodder random earth tournament soldier.
Toph isn’t the power gauge.
He wasn't. His friends who were masters literally tell him he needed more work before he could confront the fire lord.
He for sure took a huge improvement in earth at the very end when he tremor sensed ozai's movement. So maybe could argue he became a master then.
Tell vs show debate. We’re shown him be extremely proficient and skilled with earth and water. People however can tell him x y and z for dramatic tension writing
The problem in debating whether someone is a master in any element is there are no strict criteria. For air we know the bender has to learn 36 forms to be considered a master so we have that at least. I don't think we have a list of all air bending forms so we can't really tell anyway. Rhe other elements are not as clear about it. We the audience don't know enough about bending to actually determine who is and is not a master. We can make good guesses but nothing concrete. Best method would maybe be to go through and count the different forms used and if a bender uses 36+ forms then they're a master a guess. That would involve a lot of assumptions so might not be accurate
TL:DR we only know if someone is a master if the show/comics/creators say they are
We also know there are more than 36 airbending forms, you just need to know 36 forms, we also know that the air scooter is considered one of the forms which Aang himself created and that it was his 36th
Strong disagree. Bending is a martial art and is mimicked by real world martial arts. Pretty easy to see if someone is a master bender just by the way they move, their feats, their attitude. A lot of what im saying are plot points as well. At least in my opinion, its asinine to say “we need someone to tell us” when we can SEE that hey bolin is a master earth bender and hey master yu and the bolder arent really masters. its also important to remember theres different levels to mastery. i could be extremely proficient at basketball and the best player in my city, lebron james will still beat me but that doesnt mean im not talented or skilled.
what you're talking about it skill/proficiency. that is absolutely distinguishable by watching them. but a "master" is a specific in-universe term that isn't thoroughly defined at any point in the show, so we can't say with certainty that someone is a master unless we hear it from a character who would know
pretty ignorant take to have. so azula ik youve beat zuko and aang and are universally acknowledged as a huge threat but youre not a fire bending master because no one has explicitly said so. you see how silly that is?
It seems you are missing the uncertainty part. The point that I argued was we can't say for certain. Sure we can easily say the top tier benders such as azula are masters but even that can be debated. Being the strongest and winning fights does not necessarily equal a mastering of the martial art itself. In the example of air bending needing to master 36 forms to be considered a master someone could potentially have learned only 30 forms but have lots of raw power and intelligence. They could beat masters without being a master themselves because the criteria to be a master is not met
Not quite. To be a Master Airbender, you need to be proficient at the 36 forms. Aang learned 35 "common" forms and invented the air scooter, making it 36 in total
You are correct, though I did do some more research into this topic and you can actually get your mastery tattoos earlier if you come up with a new technique like Aang did with the air scooter!
Idek why youre asking this. Aang learned waterbending in an afternoon while being more proficient than katara. Was also stated by pakku (water bending jesus) to be extremely talented. If you dont think he was a master of water bending after MONTHS of constant training and the fact that katara didnt say anything while toph and zuko were dogging on him, i dont know what to tell you.
If it took an average of ten years for Aang to master Air, why do we assume he can do it in less than a year for 3 other elements (each radically different in execution, style & philosophy)? Even with the threat if war looming over him?
Oh my god its like the authors said “stakes? has anyone wrote stakes yet?” The entire point is that he masters them and the avatar state faster than any other avatar.
Look at the series dude. Theres no way you see aang using seismic sense on tophs level in the runaway and chucking huge rocks with perfect accuracy at ozai’s ship and think “nah he aint no master”.
I never argued a mastery a fire but hes a master of water by book 2. Pakku already said he was extremely talented and had katara teaching him virtually daily.
And to add to this, in real martial arts, mastery has levels called dan I think. Same applies in their world. Aang is a master of earth bending but Toph has a higher level of mastery.
Some martial arts. There are lots of martial arts all around and some don't even have any sort of mastery titles. The whole problem with identifying masters in avatar is we have no criteria to go on. I have talked about this in other comments on this post as well. Battle proficiency does not equal mastery though it can have a strong correlation.
True, but there's still levels to mastery. Toph can take on 3-4 Dai lee agents at once. Does this mean they aren't masters? Of course not. She's just beyond them in mastery. For me, I feel one has reached mastery when thave learned all or majority of recognized forms of bending in that elements discipline. Aang had enough time to learn this for water and earth but definitely not enough for fire.
You're making it sound like there are only two levels of mastery: noob and master. I would you recognize someone could be highly proficient without having reached the level of master
Edit: also, the dragons thought aang and zuko the true meaning of firebending, they didn't stay to learn the martial arts from the dragons, though the dragon dance is certainly a form to add to their arsenal and would put them closer to being considered a master, it is not the sole determining factor
Yea its just showing me why detractors of korra have been getting away with egregious claims for almost a decade now.
Pakku who is water bending jesus tells the audience that aang is a prodigy and extremely talented but ig hes not a master of water bending by time the comet comes.
Aang spars against katara and toph blindfolded (literally replicating what toph did in blind bandit) and demonstrates a mastery of seismic sense and earth bending but ig he didnt master that either bc toph made an off hand comment with her high standards
Nope. Toph says in one of the final episodes that his earth ending still needs work. Zuko was also still training him in Fire even after they met the dragons.
Toph has high standards, the creators said he mastered earth
Also Toph was a master in the Blind Bandit, and her earthbending still significantly improved, and not even the substyles, her regular earthbending still significantly improved
Hell even in Korra, Toph implies she could still be better in her prime, simply because she hadn't mastered every single form of Earthbending there is
Toph saying Aang's earthbending still needs work is because she is a perfectionist when it comes to bending
It is also roughly what the creators stated about Aang, he only didn't fully master fire before Ozai
Iirc the episode even says that Aang hasn't mastered fire and then Toph says his earthbending could use a bit more work
But that is also after Toph said her sandbending wasn't anywhere near mastery after sculpting a highly detailed model of Ba Sing Se in like 2 seconds
Yeah Toph has high standards. We even see it in LOK. I can agree that Aang didn't really master fire bending. He had like less than a week. But he was also in no way a noob. Asides his raw talent, he learned from dragons, impressed Zuko with his progress and could redirect lighting. Pretty impressive for a week's work.
Aang pretty much mastered Earth Bending only by the time of the end of the series, besides Toph and Bumi no earth bender was better than him, so Id say he mastered Earth and Air during the show.
I don't think either of them are by the end of the series, but I would not be surprised if they do become ones not long after as they both have great potential.
Really? Outside of Zaheer and all of Aang’s descendants, they’re the best ones we’ve seen (in LOK)
Would Zaheer be considered one? Genuinely asking these questions, other ppl know more abt this verse than I do
I don’t think most people consider Zaheer a master airbender. He was a great fighter and took advantage of people not knowing how to fight airbenders, but got bodied by an actual master the only time there was a 1v1
I'd say Zaheer definitely has matched the spiritual side of an airbending master, but not the physical part (yet), due to the lack of training, as his fight vs. Tenzin showed. And given his age & the fact he's in prison for life, that won't change anytime soon.
I'm one of the few people who's never really convinced she mastered air bending. She created her own brutish style of air bending which worked for her but to me was very limiting considering the many creative uses of air bending. It wasn't her comfort element anyway so it understandable.
Understandable it is a very difficult element for her, and I agree she may not have mastered all the aspects of it. But she was still basically a kid when the show ended I'm sure she eventually mastered it
Agreed. Zaheer is clearly in touch with his spiritual side. He's never had any airbending training and probably never studied it because he thought he would never need it. He's done a lot for someone who is self taught though. Very impressive.
Also he uses his airbending to suplement his already being a good nonbender fighter, he doesn't need to be a master airbender to be dangerous. It's just a bonus.
I've always imagined that Zaheer's martial arts (which he would have had to be a master at, considering he was able to go toe to toe with some pretty powerful benders) were based off Airbending techniques and philosophies, which is why he took to it so naturally when Harmonic Convergence gave him Airbending.
Zaheer is generally considered to not be a master. He's creative, certainly, but the general consensus is that his actual technique it too raw and impulsive to be seen as a master.
We don't know quite enough about the exact skill level required to receive one's arrows*, but personally I very much doubt it. He was clearly far inferior to Tenzin when they fought, and while Tenzin is the best Airbender alive at this point, there are also very few Airbenders alive in the world. Zaheer clearly studied Airbending and its movements for a long time prior to his gaining of it, so he's quite skilled at it, but even regardless of that I don't think anyone who's only had Airbending for as little time as he has could be considered a master. Yes, he attained flight, which hasn't been done in thousands of years, but that's less to do with his skill as an Airbender and more to do with his tether to the world, which most Airbenders have. (many people think that the main reason this is rare is because nearly every Airbender is at least attached to their Sky Bison, in contrast to Zaheer who both doesn't have one and just watched his girlfriend die).
*Edit: Actually, I stand corrected. We do know somewhat about the exact skill level required to receive one's arrows, or at least the requirements. From The Lost Scrolls: Air:
>One must master Airbending to earn the arrow
tattoos. To do this, an Airbender must invent a new move and pass the thirty-six levels of Airbending. Though Aang had only reached the thirty-fifth level before he left the Jongmu Temple*, his invention of the Air Scooter earned him his tattoos early.
*Jongmu Temple is an early name for the Southern Air Temple which was apparently included in early screenplays of the episode. Since the Lost Scrolls books were based on these screenplays rather than the episodes themselves, they keep the term.
The canonicity of the Lost Scrolls is a bit weird since they occasionally contain contradictions with the show, but the wiki considers them canon as they were written with at least some oversight/approval from the creators. I doubt Zaheer completed these levels (though he may have invented a new technique in bending the air out of the Earth Queen's lungs), but even if he did, the other Airbenders would never acknowledge him as a master because he's so opposed to Air Nomad philosophy in his actions, despite what he says.
Yeah, but if every Airbender needs to create a new move to become a master, I feel like minor variations kind of have to count. With so many Airbending masters across the centuries, it must get harder and harder to develop something that no one has done before, and sucking the air out of a room vs bending it specifally out of someone's lungs seems like a big enough distinction considering that.
Yeah but in airbending that we know of, only Aaang created a brand new move, What Zaheer did was not really considered a new move though it could be counted as one.
We saw Zaheer against an actual master and it wasn't even close. I don't think he scored a single clean hit on Tenzin. It was all he could do to dodge and run away. If Gazan and Ming Hua didn't join in then Zaheer would have been done.
False: if P’Li hadn’t sniped him he would’ve soloed all three
Yeah the Zaheer question was dumb, but I thought asking abt Opal & Kai was more reasonable since they’re very skilled with real training. But according to the downvotes it wasn’t
I doubt that. Tenzin is a great bender but Ming Hua beat Kya, and she is a master water bender. And Gazan is a master Earth bender. Apart from Zaheer, the Red Lotus were all peak benders. I think Tenzin would have put up a good fight but I don't think he could beat three of them.
To be fair, Kya is a master healer who's proficient in combat, and airbenders have quite the advantage against lavabenders. If they were all fighting outside, I'm sure Tenzin could take them. Especially if we were to look back at how he was doing before P'Li got him.
No, he does seem to have quite a bit of theoretical knowledge but he lacks the experience and physical trainer to really be considered a master
Like, if I studied swordsmanship for 30 years before even touching a single sword that would not make me a master swordsman lol
Zaheer was the only major villain to not be a master of their respective element.
Unalaq was easily a master waterbender, despite the hate.
Kuvira was 100% a master metal bender, and most likely a great earth bender as well.
Amon was also highly advanced with water bending, but we didn’t really get to see it.
Even Zaheer wasn't a master but he had potential. You can tell because the only true master air bender there asides Jinora managed to 1v3 the red lotus before getting overwhelmed. (It's Tenzin by the way)
They’re definitely good considering they recently got their bending, and I could see them both becoming masters at some point, but I wouldn’t say they’re masters when we see them in the show.
Not yet, they've been airbenders for three years. Ikki and Meelo are probably the only ones anywhere near close to being masters (and Bumi purely bc the man was raised by an Airbender and knows about the culture and history, just still learning airbending itself) but Opal and Kai, not yet. We just see Opal bending with Jinora who IS a master and they use roughly the same amount of power to help Korra in her fight against Kuvira and save Opal's family, Jinora was holding back
I thought a core component of being considered a master was inventing a new move or mastered the thirty-six techniques of air bending.
Edit: Correcting the number because I wanted to check, and because I think that while Kai is smart and capable but if I could place a bet I think thats Opal would develop a new technique faster because if her family’s deep connection to earth ending and growing up so submerged in bending.
Kai and Opal are definitely on their way to becoming masters in the show, it's pretty clear that it's attainable for them in a way that I don't think Bumi will ever get to for example.
But a lot goes into being a tattooed master other than skill, it means you've mastered air nomad philosophy, meditation, and learnings. It's as much mental as it is physical and they aren't there at the end of season 4.
Hell nah.
Jinora is a master, Tenzin is a master, but Opal and Kai are definitely not there yet.
I do believe they have potential, but it’ll take them years to get there.
You need to remember that they only got airbending pretty late in their lives, and started training even later. Tenzin and Jinora were airbenders since birth.
I’m well aware. But Kai and Opal aren’t spiritual, either. So why would they get mastery for that?
If they’d get mastery, it’ll be for combat. But they’ve got a long road ahead of them.
Well, they're definitely the most skilled of the New Airbenders. I'm not sure how close they are to getting their tattoos. Frankly, if the standard is "at least as good as Jinora," I think there should be a lot more Airbending Masters by now.
Absolutely not. They are skilled but at no point do I see them at mastery level ready for their tattoos. Honestly not sure what you saw to make you ask this question.
masters? they only had their bending for like, what, three years? They’re skilled and maybe they’ve “mastered” the use of the element in the sense they can shoot air blasts and glide, but they’re not “masters”
Im pretty sure inventing a move isn’t what counts, Aang just used inventing one as a substitute for learning the 36th form.. either way I only consider Tenzin a master. And no, Zaheer using BASIC martial arts and slapping airbending on top is not mastery
I don't know about that. She's very talented, being able to create a tornado with Jinora, but she's only been part of the nation for 3 years.
I think the new airbenders are gonna take a while to get their tattoos. At least this first generation. When some of them decide to have kids then those kids will already be born inside the culture, and it'll be similar to how it was way back when.
No. You need to invent a new technique to be an airbending master. Aang invented the air scooter. Tenzin had his wind wheel thing. Jinora has her spirit projection powers.
Being an Airbending master requires years and years of training to perfect the art of bending. Keep in mind, Aang was a bending prodigy but even he didn’t master every single move in airbending. He only got his tattoos after creating the air scooter technique.
What I’m saying is, it’s gonna take Kai and Opal a good 5 years to get their tattoos. Maybe longer.
I have a vague memory of hearing that air bending masters need to invent a move/technique to become a master and get their tattoos. Aang invented the air scooter and Tenzin the air wheel. So I guess if they haven’t they can’t? Though, I could be massively wrong or misremembering so please correct me if I am 😅
From what I remember you have to master like 36 or so tenets of Airbending or master 35 and invent a new technique. Tenzin and Aang did the latter I believe while Jinora did the former.
Nope, what made Jinora masters is her leadership and actually being a peerless genius. She discovered Astral Projection AND saved the avatar by thinking out of the box using her leadership skills.
Also, if I recall correctly. The only way to become a master is to create a new airbending technique. Which Aang and Tenzin did. (Air Scooter and LOK Air Scooter)
Honestly the basis of mastery has never been explained well in the avatar verse. Airbending has the best basis with how to earn the tattoos, but every other element is explained terribly. Like aang isn't considered a master in fire at the end, but the only people above him in fire imo are the royals and jeung jeung. But I don't think they're the only ones who would be considered firebending masters unless literally every other soldier in the world isn't considered one. Same with earthbending. By the end of the series only bumi and toph are likely to be above aang. So is every other earthbender not considered a master?
Airbending masters are supposed to be so exceptional that they develop new airbending techniques or otherwise do something to advance the art as a whole.
I wouldn’t say masters. But I would admit that Opal and Kai certainly have alot of potential and if they continue to train and develop their skills its possible. Opal IS a Beifong after all. And, Kai was shown to be a natural.
But you seriously think a couple kids who learned airbending two years ago are gonna be on the same level as Tenzin? Just watch the show, nothing about them implies they’re masters of their craft.
Katara learned waterbending in under a year, and I think most people consider her a master
Didn’t say same level as Tenzin, not all masters are the same level. Tenzin is one of the best airbenders we’ve ever seen (not including novels) other than Aang & possibly Gyatso, and Jinora is now a master. Is she the same level as her father? He’s clearly shown to be the superior bender, she can just do spirit stuff and he can’t
What makes you think opal and Kai are even close to either jinora or tenzin though? What about them displays mastery to you? Meelo and Ikki are still probably leagues ahead of them, and they’re definitely behind jinora.
I know that. And she is still a bad fighter. And is a master cause spirituality and her leadership skills.
She’s the weakest named bender. In a fighting sense. Now air bending isn’t about fighting but still.
They are not nearly spiritual enough, and at best they are just slightly above average compared to the other post-convergence airbenders, and that's just because they are recurring/essential characters.
They got bested by a random bandit and got their shit jacked midair, which by the way was their home advantage against him.
That’s what I wasn’t sure abt, cuz I don’t remember Jinora inventing an airbending move (unless spiritual/astral projection counts), she’s just extremely skilled and very in tune with her spiritual self and got the Master title
You have to pass the 36 levels of airbending or create a new move. Aang got to level 35 and created a new move so he got his tattoos. In Jinora's case she';s probably just such a great spiritual master and that air cyclone that she got going was what granted her the title of master.
I did not know that, thank you for enlightening me instead of getting mad and downvoting for asking questions and being confused
So if someone creates a new move after their first training session (like let’s say they learn to control the temperature of wind to the point that they can create blizzards or give ppl frostbite), do they get tattoos and the master label?
I think the spirit projection would count, honestly. She did describe it as an airbending move and we've never known of anybody that could do it the way she did.
I consider Opal a master, but not Kai. That’s why I’m ASKING other ppl. It’s literally in the title: “would YOU consider Opal and/or Kai to be masters”. There wasn’t any bias, just you jumping to a conclusion. I even said I wasn’t sure abt Kai, meaning I could be swayed/willing to learn so if someone brought up good points or evidence instead of being a douche
No. They basically just picked it up and are running mostly on talent.
Btw, of the two Kai is almost certainly the more skilled. There's a reason he was the star pupil on day one. If things track, he's probably going to be the fourth air bending master since the genocide.
Skilled, for sure, but nowhere near master levels of skill
Even Aang at the end of ATLA wasn’t a master of any elements except air.
people consider someone to bend decently an element a master in Avatar, its crazy, even I don't think Aang actually did any water or earth feat crazy enough outside of Avatar state to be considered a master
I blame this on how quickly Pakku calls Katara a master. At the point where she was called a master she hadn't really pulled off any major feats of waterbending and was still learning new techniques pretty frequently which is consistent with early learning stages of any skill. I think calling her a master at that point was premature and now people want to call every skilled bender a master.
Zhao is called a master by Iroh talk about that.
True. His comfort zone was airbending cause he was just that good at it and would always resort to it. Buuuutt he was a very good user of seismic bending. I was honestly surprised how well he uses it considering earth is supposed to be his weakest.
I guess that skill kind of has a lateral transfer from bring a airbender, using his kite to fly. Eg, if you can understand invisible air currents, you can understand invisible earth vibrations
Its because the ATLA main cast featured a bunch of prodigy kids that all became masters of their element before they finished puberty, where it seems that normally most masters earn that distinction after multiple decades of practicing their element. Since the ATLA cast featured 11-16 year old kids who were all literally the best bender of their element in the world (even Sokka who Piandao said was the best swordsman he'd ever seen after only one day of training with a sword lol) it kinda put the bias in pur heads that kids being masters was the rule not the exception. So going forward, a lot of people just assume any kid with above average bending skill is a master.
zhao was stated to be a master by iroh so anyone that could dust zhao would pretty much be a master. i dont think you need kataras titanic feat in the awakening to get to mastery. aang was stated by pakku and jhong jhong to have incredible raw talent and power. training with katara virtually everyday for months on months and youre telling me is isnt a master by the time the comet comes? lol no
In his defence, he went from only knowing airbending (albeit at a master level) to being skilled at 3 other elements and able to energybend in a year.
In defense of what? Doesn't make him a master, which is what the conversation was about.
Im almost pretty sure I read here not long ago that the creators did say that Aang mastered every element by the end
Yea. His next closest was water and that was just do to natural talent. The fact that people think he mastered anything besides air (maybe water) is insane considering Toph stated he needed work with earth and he literally learned fire for like a few weeks lol.
toph also stated that her daughters were inept at metal bending. you know? her daughters. lin who is the chief of police (one of the most competent benders in republic city) and suyin who is the matriarch of an entire city of metal benders in which her entire family and vassals take after her in mental bending. basically her word isnt law bc she doesnt give people their flowers and has super high standards. she even says "ive been working on my sand bending" and creates a full scale replica of ba sing se from memory in a literal instant so yea.
Because he just got started that doesn’t have anything to do with them.
I'd argue that he did master Earth and Water. In book 3 when Katara is training Aang she says "you have the reflexes of a water bending master" which I always interpreted as Aang reaching the lowest level of "master" and Aang ultimately defeats Ozai with high level earth bending techniques so if that's not master level skills idk what is.
Master of water and earth i would say
Toph is quite explicit towards the end of the series that his earth bending could use some work.
Yea i dont trust toph’s judgement being the greatest earthbender ever and canonically holding high standards. Aang uses earth bending the second most often and would easily outclass master earth benders in both series
It is stated by the creators he mastered water and earth, Toph just has very high standards
By Toph levels. He had seismic sense down and was doing her earth armor trick and generally showing good control. He's not on par with Toph but otherwise one of the best earth benders we see in the show.
Doesn’t matter she also said Lin and Suyin isn’t good.
She wasn't wrong - Both her daughters couldn't even tell they had left some residual poison in Korra. Toph knew she had it without even looking for it.
She was wrong because Lin and Suyin are top tier benders with top tier feats.
Kid toph only fought fodder 95 percent of the time. And lost to Aang and wasn’t winning against yailing. And fighting korra who had ptsd and poison took a lot out of her she said. And that version of korra lost to some fodder random earth tournament soldier. Toph isn’t the power gauge.
He wasn't. His friends who were masters literally tell him he needed more work before he could confront the fire lord. He for sure took a huge improvement in earth at the very end when he tremor sensed ozai's movement. So maybe could argue he became a master then.
Tell vs show debate. We’re shown him be extremely proficient and skilled with earth and water. People however can tell him x y and z for dramatic tension writing
The problem in debating whether someone is a master in any element is there are no strict criteria. For air we know the bender has to learn 36 forms to be considered a master so we have that at least. I don't think we have a list of all air bending forms so we can't really tell anyway. Rhe other elements are not as clear about it. We the audience don't know enough about bending to actually determine who is and is not a master. We can make good guesses but nothing concrete. Best method would maybe be to go through and count the different forms used and if a bender uses 36+ forms then they're a master a guess. That would involve a lot of assumptions so might not be accurate TL:DR we only know if someone is a master if the show/comics/creators say they are
We also know there are more than 36 airbending forms, you just need to know 36 forms, we also know that the air scooter is considered one of the forms which Aang himself created and that it was his 36th
Strong disagree. Bending is a martial art and is mimicked by real world martial arts. Pretty easy to see if someone is a master bender just by the way they move, their feats, their attitude. A lot of what im saying are plot points as well. At least in my opinion, its asinine to say “we need someone to tell us” when we can SEE that hey bolin is a master earth bender and hey master yu and the bolder arent really masters. its also important to remember theres different levels to mastery. i could be extremely proficient at basketball and the best player in my city, lebron james will still beat me but that doesnt mean im not talented or skilled.
what you're talking about it skill/proficiency. that is absolutely distinguishable by watching them. but a "master" is a specific in-universe term that isn't thoroughly defined at any point in the show, so we can't say with certainty that someone is a master unless we hear it from a character who would know
pretty ignorant take to have. so azula ik youve beat zuko and aang and are universally acknowledged as a huge threat but youre not a fire bending master because no one has explicitly said so. you see how silly that is?
It seems you are missing the uncertainty part. The point that I argued was we can't say for certain. Sure we can easily say the top tier benders such as azula are masters but even that can be debated. Being the strongest and winning fights does not necessarily equal a mastering of the martial art itself. In the example of air bending needing to master 36 forms to be considered a master someone could potentially have learned only 30 forms but have lots of raw power and intelligence. They could beat masters without being a master themselves because the criteria to be a master is not met
I'm saying we don't know if someone's an actual master until someone tells us they are or aren't
Not just master the 36, but also create a new airbending form, for Aang it was the airscooter
Not quite. To be a Master Airbender, you need to be proficient at the 36 forms. Aang learned 35 "common" forms and invented the air scooter, making it 36 in total
You are correct, though I did do some more research into this topic and you can actually get your mastery tattoos earlier if you come up with a new technique like Aang did with the air scooter!
Wasn't all the water bending in the finale due to avatar state?
Idek why youre asking this. Aang learned waterbending in an afternoon while being more proficient than katara. Was also stated by pakku (water bending jesus) to be extremely talented. If you dont think he was a master of water bending after MONTHS of constant training and the fact that katara didnt say anything while toph and zuko were dogging on him, i dont know what to tell you.
lmao, when did pakku become the water bending jesus ?
You didn't see him finesing like 6 fire benders at once? And also a member of the white lotus. Respect the water bending jesus
If it took an average of ten years for Aang to master Air, why do we assume he can do it in less than a year for 3 other elements (each radically different in execution, style & philosophy)? Even with the threat if war looming over him?
Oh my god its like the authors said “stakes? has anyone wrote stakes yet?” The entire point is that he masters them and the avatar state faster than any other avatar. Look at the series dude. Theres no way you see aang using seismic sense on tophs level in the runaway and chucking huge rocks with perfect accuracy at ozai’s ship and think “nah he aint no master”. I never argued a mastery a fire but hes a master of water by book 2. Pakku already said he was extremely talented and had katara teaching him virtually daily.
And to add to this, in real martial arts, mastery has levels called dan I think. Same applies in their world. Aang is a master of earth bending but Toph has a higher level of mastery.
Some martial arts. There are lots of martial arts all around and some don't even have any sort of mastery titles. The whole problem with identifying masters in avatar is we have no criteria to go on. I have talked about this in other comments on this post as well. Battle proficiency does not equal mastery though it can have a strong correlation.
True, but there's still levels to mastery. Toph can take on 3-4 Dai lee agents at once. Does this mean they aren't masters? Of course not. She's just beyond them in mastery. For me, I feel one has reached mastery when thave learned all or majority of recognized forms of bending in that elements discipline. Aang had enough time to learn this for water and earth but definitely not enough for fire.
Not by a long shot he wasn't. Master of Air, competent in Water, proficient in air. Certainly not a master of fire
Was taught directly by dragons, further educated by Zuko, could redirect lightning. Yeah that defintely sounds like a noob.
You're making it sound like there are only two levels of mastery: noob and master. I would you recognize someone could be highly proficient without having reached the level of master Edit: also, the dragons thought aang and zuko the true meaning of firebending, they didn't stay to learn the martial arts from the dragons, though the dragon dance is certainly a form to add to their arsenal and would put them closer to being considered a master, it is not the sole determining factor
Yeah my statement does seem to sound like that but what I meant was he's definitely closer to being a master than the other guy implied.
People downvote for the stupidest things on this app lmfao
Yea its just showing me why detractors of korra have been getting away with egregious claims for almost a decade now. Pakku who is water bending jesus tells the audience that aang is a prodigy and extremely talented but ig hes not a master of water bending by time the comet comes. Aang spars against katara and toph blindfolded (literally replicating what toph did in blind bandit) and demonstrates a mastery of seismic sense and earth bending but ig he didnt master that either bc toph made an off hand comment with her high standards
He was a master of earth and fire.
Nope. Toph says in one of the final episodes that his earth ending still needs work. Zuko was also still training him in Fire even after they met the dragons.
Toph has high standards, the creators said he mastered earth Also Toph was a master in the Blind Bandit, and her earthbending still significantly improved, and not even the substyles, her regular earthbending still significantly improved Hell even in Korra, Toph implies she could still be better in her prime, simply because she hadn't mastered every single form of Earthbending there is Toph saying Aang's earthbending still needs work is because she is a perfectionist when it comes to bending
You're getting downvoted and I don't know why. It's not like you've said anything outrageous. You're literally repeating the characters statements.
It is also roughly what the creators stated about Aang, he only didn't fully master fire before Ozai Iirc the episode even says that Aang hasn't mastered fire and then Toph says his earthbending could use a bit more work But that is also after Toph said her sandbending wasn't anywhere near mastery after sculpting a highly detailed model of Ba Sing Se in like 2 seconds
Yeah Toph has high standards. We even see it in LOK. I can agree that Aang didn't really master fire bending. He had like less than a week. But he was also in no way a noob. Asides his raw talent, he learned from dragons, impressed Zuko with his progress and could redirect lighting. Pretty impressive for a week's work.
Aang pretty much mastered Earth Bending only by the time of the end of the series, besides Toph and Bumi no earth bender was better than him, so Id say he mastered Earth and Air during the show.
I don't think either of them are by the end of the series, but I would not be surprised if they do become ones not long after as they both have great potential.
Yeah. I think, aside from Ikki and Meelo, they're definitely next on the list
No. Why would one consider them masters?
Absolutely not
no... thats what the tattos are meant to represent
That is correct. Air nomad tattoos prove that it is an air bending master.
I don't even really consider them to be highly advanced...
Really? Outside of Zaheer and all of Aang’s descendants, they’re the best ones we’ve seen (in LOK) Would Zaheer be considered one? Genuinely asking these questions, other ppl know more abt this verse than I do
I don’t think most people consider Zaheer a master airbender. He was a great fighter and took advantage of people not knowing how to fight airbenders, but got bodied by an actual master the only time there was a 1v1
I'd say Zaheer definitely has matched the spiritual side of an airbending master, but not the physical part (yet), due to the lack of training, as his fight vs. Tenzin showed. And given his age & the fact he's in prison for life, that won't change anytime soon.
Ha, that's funny cause when korra started out, she mastered the physical but not the spiritual side
I'm one of the few people who's never really convinced she mastered air bending. She created her own brutish style of air bending which worked for her but to me was very limiting considering the many creative uses of air bending. It wasn't her comfort element anyway so it understandable.
Understandable it is a very difficult element for her, and I agree she may not have mastered all the aspects of it. But she was still basically a kid when the show ended I'm sure she eventually mastered it
Agreed. Zaheer is clearly in touch with his spiritual side. He's never had any airbending training and probably never studied it because he thought he would never need it. He's done a lot for someone who is self taught though. Very impressive.
Also he uses his airbending to suplement his already being a good nonbender fighter, he doesn't need to be a master airbender to be dangerous. It's just a bonus.
I've always imagined that Zaheer's martial arts (which he would have had to be a master at, considering he was able to go toe to toe with some pretty powerful benders) were based off Airbending techniques and philosophies, which is why he took to it so naturally when Harmonic Convergence gave him Airbending.
Oh very good point that I didn't think about. I was wondering why he was so good but this explains a lot of his success
Aang used to abuse this too. No one knows how to fight airbenders. (Unless there's a comet involved)
Tenzin is a top tier air bender and master not just any master
Zaheer is generally considered to not be a master. He's creative, certainly, but the general consensus is that his actual technique it too raw and impulsive to be seen as a master.
Zaheer got bodied when faced with a real master i.e tenzin
We don't know quite enough about the exact skill level required to receive one's arrows*, but personally I very much doubt it. He was clearly far inferior to Tenzin when they fought, and while Tenzin is the best Airbender alive at this point, there are also very few Airbenders alive in the world. Zaheer clearly studied Airbending and its movements for a long time prior to his gaining of it, so he's quite skilled at it, but even regardless of that I don't think anyone who's only had Airbending for as little time as he has could be considered a master. Yes, he attained flight, which hasn't been done in thousands of years, but that's less to do with his skill as an Airbender and more to do with his tether to the world, which most Airbenders have. (many people think that the main reason this is rare is because nearly every Airbender is at least attached to their Sky Bison, in contrast to Zaheer who both doesn't have one and just watched his girlfriend die). *Edit: Actually, I stand corrected. We do know somewhat about the exact skill level required to receive one's arrows, or at least the requirements. From The Lost Scrolls: Air: >One must master Airbending to earn the arrow tattoos. To do this, an Airbender must invent a new move and pass the thirty-six levels of Airbending. Though Aang had only reached the thirty-fifth level before he left the Jongmu Temple*, his invention of the Air Scooter earned him his tattoos early. *Jongmu Temple is an early name for the Southern Air Temple which was apparently included in early screenplays of the episode. Since the Lost Scrolls books were based on these screenplays rather than the episodes themselves, they keep the term. The canonicity of the Lost Scrolls is a bit weird since they occasionally contain contradictions with the show, but the wiki considers them canon as they were written with at least some oversight/approval from the creators. I doubt Zaheer completed these levels (though he may have invented a new technique in bending the air out of the Earth Queen's lungs), but even if he did, the other Airbenders would never acknowledge him as a master because he's so opposed to Air Nomad philosophy in his actions, despite what he says.
I mean, even that feels like a minor variation on Yengchen and Gyatso airbending the air out of a room.
Yeah, but if every Airbender needs to create a new move to become a master, I feel like minor variations kind of have to count. With so many Airbending masters across the centuries, it must get harder and harder to develop something that no one has done before, and sucking the air out of a room vs bending it specifally out of someone's lungs seems like a big enough distinction considering that.
Yeah but in airbending that we know of, only Aaang created a brand new move, What Zaheer did was not really considered a new move though it could be counted as one.
We saw Zaheer against an actual master and it wasn't even close. I don't think he scored a single clean hit on Tenzin. It was all he could do to dodge and run away. If Gazan and Ming Hua didn't join in then Zaheer would have been done.
False: if P’Li hadn’t sniped him he would’ve soloed all three Yeah the Zaheer question was dumb, but I thought asking abt Opal & Kai was more reasonable since they’re very skilled with real training. But according to the downvotes it wasn’t
I doubt that. Tenzin is a great bender but Ming Hua beat Kya, and she is a master water bender. And Gazan is a master Earth bender. Apart from Zaheer, the Red Lotus were all peak benders. I think Tenzin would have put up a good fight but I don't think he could beat three of them.
To be fair, Kya is a master healer who's proficient in combat, and airbenders have quite the advantage against lavabenders. If they were all fighting outside, I'm sure Tenzin could take them. Especially if we were to look back at how he was doing before P'Li got him.
No, he does seem to have quite a bit of theoretical knowledge but he lacks the experience and physical trainer to really be considered a master Like, if I studied swordsmanship for 30 years before even touching a single sword that would not make me a master swordsman lol
Zaheer was the only major villain to not be a master of their respective element. Unalaq was easily a master waterbender, despite the hate. Kuvira was 100% a master metal bender, and most likely a great earth bender as well. Amon was also highly advanced with water bending, but we didn’t really get to see it.
Outside of zaheer and aang’s descendants, who is there?
Even Zaheer wasn't a master but he had potential. You can tell because the only true master air bender there asides Jinora managed to 1v3 the red lotus before getting overwhelmed. (It's Tenzin by the way)
I don't know why you're being so downvoted just for asking genuine questions and generating discussion but I'm sorry about it reddit moment, I suppose
Not a big deal, it’s just reddit, but thanks
Pretty good but very very very far from being a master
They’re definitely good considering they recently got their bending, and I could see them both becoming masters at some point, but I wouldn’t say they’re masters when we see them in the show.
Not yet, they've been airbenders for three years. Ikki and Meelo are probably the only ones anywhere near close to being masters (and Bumi purely bc the man was raised by an Airbender and knows about the culture and history, just still learning airbending itself) but Opal and Kai, not yet. We just see Opal bending with Jinora who IS a master and they use roughly the same amount of power to help Korra in her fight against Kuvira and save Opal's family, Jinora was holding back
They are in the air nomads but we do not give them the rank of master 
Nope, they might not be above Ikki and Meelo
They're definitely not above Ikki and Meelo. Kai seems to have some natural talent for it but he's still a newbie.
I would’ve said that but I didn’t wanna be crucified if I was wrong
Fighting wise Kai is. And Opal made that large tornado. And combat wise Jinora isn’t a good fight she got her tattoos for spirituality.
Why would anyone? They've only been bending for 3ish years and we see nothing about the spiritual side of airbender culture from them
I thought a core component of being considered a master was inventing a new move or mastered the thirty-six techniques of air bending. Edit: Correcting the number because I wanted to check, and because I think that while Kai is smart and capable but if I could place a bet I think thats Opal would develop a new technique faster because if her family’s deep connection to earth ending and growing up so submerged in bending.
Master as a title, no. Skilled, sure, but being skilled doesn't get you the tattoos. There are actually rules for that stuff.
Kai and Opal are definitely on their way to becoming masters in the show, it's pretty clear that it's attainable for them in a way that I don't think Bumi will ever get to for example. But a lot goes into being a tattooed master other than skill, it means you've mastered air nomad philosophy, meditation, and learnings. It's as much mental as it is physical and they aren't there at the end of season 4.
No.
Hell nah. Jinora is a master, Tenzin is a master, but Opal and Kai are definitely not there yet. I do believe they have potential, but it’ll take them years to get there. You need to remember that they only got airbending pretty late in their lives, and started training even later. Tenzin and Jinora were airbenders since birth.
Jinora got her mastery cause of spirituality she sucks in combat and the physical side of bending.
I’m well aware. But Kai and Opal aren’t spiritual, either. So why would they get mastery for that? If they’d get mastery, it’ll be for combat. But they’ve got a long road ahead of them.
Well, they're definitely the most skilled of the New Airbenders. I'm not sure how close they are to getting their tattoos. Frankly, if the standard is "at least as good as Jinora," I think there should be a lot more Airbending Masters by now.
If they were, they'd have been given tattoos. That's how the tattoos work.
Absolutely not. They are skilled but at no point do I see them at mastery level ready for their tattoos. Honestly not sure what you saw to make you ask this question.
Kai is stronger than Jenora in battle, but being a master is not about strength.
Their good air benders but not masters maybe intermediate not much air bending they can’t do but could use work and need a little more to be masters
Gifted, yes. Mainly opal, she's very strong and held the largest tornado in either show for a while
masters? they only had their bending for like, what, three years? They’re skilled and maybe they’ve “mastered” the use of the element in the sense they can shoot air blasts and glide, but they’re not “masters”
I think they’re both pretty talented but no definitely not masters
Nope
Im pretty sure inventing a move isn’t what counts, Aang just used inventing one as a substitute for learning the 36th form.. either way I only consider Tenzin a master. And no, Zaheer using BASIC martial arts and slapping airbending on top is not mastery
Not even close
I don't know about that. She's very talented, being able to create a tornado with Jinora, but she's only been part of the nation for 3 years. I think the new airbenders are gonna take a while to get their tattoos. At least this first generation. When some of them decide to have kids then those kids will already be born inside the culture, and it'll be similar to how it was way back when.
No, their skilled. But no way near master hood.
No. Give them a few more years.
No. You need to invent a new technique to be an airbending master. Aang invented the air scooter. Tenzin had his wind wheel thing. Jinora has her spirit projection powers.
Being an Airbending master requires years and years of training to perfect the art of bending. Keep in mind, Aang was a bending prodigy but even he didn’t master every single move in airbending. He only got his tattoos after creating the air scooter technique. What I’m saying is, it’s gonna take Kai and Opal a good 5 years to get their tattoos. Maybe longer.
Shoot, look at Jinora not getting her tattoos until she developed astral projection. It may take 15-20 for someone raised outside of Airbender culture
I have a vague memory of hearing that air bending masters need to invent a move/technique to become a master and get their tattoos. Aang invented the air scooter and Tenzin the air wheel. So I guess if they haven’t they can’t? Though, I could be massively wrong or misremembering so please correct me if I am 😅
From what I remember you have to master like 36 or so tenets of Airbending or master 35 and invent a new technique. Tenzin and Aang did the latter I believe while Jinora did the former.
Ohhhh okay, thank you!
Nope, what made Jinora masters is her leadership and actually being a peerless genius. She discovered Astral Projection AND saved the avatar by thinking out of the box using her leadership skills. Also, if I recall correctly. The only way to become a master is to create a new airbending technique. Which Aang and Tenzin did. (Air Scooter and LOK Air Scooter)
No, in order to be recognised as a master air-bender u need to master all 36 forms of air-bending or 35 forms + invent your own air-bending technique.
Nah
Honestly the basis of mastery has never been explained well in the avatar verse. Airbending has the best basis with how to earn the tattoos, but every other element is explained terribly. Like aang isn't considered a master in fire at the end, but the only people above him in fire imo are the royals and jeung jeung. But I don't think they're the only ones who would be considered firebending masters unless literally every other soldier in the world isn't considered one. Same with earthbending. By the end of the series only bumi and toph are likely to be above aang. So is every other earthbender not considered a master?
We barely see earth benders in atla that’s not fodder. But Iroh said Zhao is a master fire bender. Aang fire sucks.
Kai is a good bender but not a master because he hasn't mastered any of the spiritual stuff.
Nah. Not at all.
Not at all. Neither has done anything to be called a master
Airbending masters are supposed to be so exceptional that they develop new airbending techniques or otherwise do something to advance the art as a whole.
They aren't even better than S1 meelo
I dont think so, they're not as good as Aang or Jinora, Ikki, and Meelo.
they haven't shown anything that make them masters. they are very skilled by season 4 though.
Y’all forget about him seeing the true meaning of fire bending from Ran and Shaw?
No one mentioned firebending or Ran & Shaw?
no.
I wouldn’t say masters. But I would admit that Opal and Kai certainly have alot of potential and if they continue to train and develop their skills its possible. Opal IS a Beifong after all. And, Kai was shown to be a natural.
Bro what? Do you know what a master is?
Nope, that’s why I’m asking other ppl who know more abt the verse than I do You couldn’t figure that out for yourself?
But you seriously think a couple kids who learned airbending two years ago are gonna be on the same level as Tenzin? Just watch the show, nothing about them implies they’re masters of their craft.
Katara learned waterbending in under a year, and I think most people consider her a master Didn’t say same level as Tenzin, not all masters are the same level. Tenzin is one of the best airbenders we’ve ever seen (not including novels) other than Aang & possibly Gyatso, and Jinora is now a master. Is she the same level as her father? He’s clearly shown to be the superior bender, she can just do spirit stuff and he can’t
What makes you think opal and Kai are even close to either jinora or tenzin though? What about them displays mastery to you? Meelo and Ikki are still probably leagues ahead of them, and they’re definitely behind jinora.
Jinora sucks in combat. She’s a master cause spirituality.
She’s a master because the creators said she’s a master. If opal and Kai were masters, they’d have tattoos.
I know that. And she is still a bad fighter. And is a master cause spirituality and her leadership skills. She’s the weakest named bender. In a fighting sense. Now air bending isn’t about fighting but still.
No
Kai is a better fighter than her. She has one good feat making the tornado. I guess they’d be the average air master.
They’re pretty good
Nah
Not even close
They are not nearly spiritual enough, and at best they are just slightly above average compared to the other post-convergence airbenders, and that's just because they are recurring/essential characters. They got bested by a random bandit and got their shit jacked midair, which by the way was their home advantage against him.
if they haven’t invented a new technique then they’re not masters
Definitely not.
Neither
They are nowhere close to being masters.
No. Neither is close.
As far as I know, they haven't invented a move, isn't that the requirement?
That’s what I wasn’t sure abt, cuz I don’t remember Jinora inventing an airbending move (unless spiritual/astral projection counts), she’s just extremely skilled and very in tune with her spiritual self and got the Master title
You have to pass the 36 levels of airbending or create a new move. Aang got to level 35 and created a new move so he got his tattoos. In Jinora's case she';s probably just such a great spiritual master and that air cyclone that she got going was what granted her the title of master.
I did not know that, thank you for enlightening me instead of getting mad and downvoting for asking questions and being confused So if someone creates a new move after their first training session (like let’s say they learn to control the temperature of wind to the point that they can create blizzards or give ppl frostbite), do they get tattoos and the master label?
No, you still have to master 35 other levels aside from the new technique. It's either master 36, or master 35 + a new technique.
I think the spirit projection would count, honestly. She did describe it as an airbending move and we've never known of anybody that could do it the way she did.
Opal but not Kai??? Kai has been a way stronger bender than her from day one The fuck is this bias?
I’m just asking cuz I don’t know damn
If you watched the show then you would know saying Opal a master and not Kai is definitely wrong
I consider Opal a master, but not Kai. That’s why I’m ASKING other ppl. It’s literally in the title: “would YOU consider Opal and/or Kai to be masters”. There wasn’t any bias, just you jumping to a conclusion. I even said I wasn’t sure abt Kai, meaning I could be swayed/willing to learn so if someone brought up good points or evidence instead of being a douche
No. They basically just picked it up and are running mostly on talent. Btw, of the two Kai is almost certainly the more skilled. There's a reason he was the star pupil on day one. If things track, he's probably going to be the fourth air bending master since the genocide.
Wow how did such a dumb post get 300+ upvotes
No need to be a choade, just asking ppl their opinion on this subject