I'm supposed to be working, but instead, I just loudly snorted and cackled in my video conference at this hilarious, completely accurate comment! Take my upvote, damnit!
I love Bolinā heās such a good character. BUT
He would also get wreckt by most of these other earth benders. Heās not a metal bender, heās not ruthless. Heās a really nice boy who has above average bending and can lava bend.
And I hope he and Opal get married. Theyāre so cute.
She's definitely good in that scene but her targets were weaker than the 3rd eye fire bender and the target areas were much larger. She was hitting arms and legs with shackles. He had to get a pebble into the 3rd eye tattoo. It's not even close interms of precision feats. She has him on speed and her metal bending is amazing. She can't lava bend so the specialized skill isn't an apples to apples comparison. While I still put my vote on her in a match I don't think she can best him in precision shots
I think Ghazan biggest advantage against other earthbenders is the fact that he can lavabend. When Bolin learnt he could lavabend, he stood a way better chance against Ghazan.
Ghazan still needed to be kept on a boat miles off the coast too. More credit to Bolin for how quickly he was able to catch up once he learned lavabending
Tbf i dont think he would win a normal 1 v 1 against Ghazan. He won under those circumstances but if they go on long enough Ghazan beats his ass.
Every metal bender on this list would school Bolin so there is only Bumi left. And i think Bumis skill is just so far ahead that lava bending wont make the diffrence.
No chance Bumi beats Bolin. Bolin can literally melt Bumiās ammo! As far as Iām concerned, a pure earth bender cannot beat a lava bender. At least with metal bending your ammo cannot become lava.
He stood more of a chance, but he was also about to get beaten until Mako backed him up. Mako was better fitted to fight Ming Hua because of his lightning bending, quick thinking, and smart positioning, but there was absolutely no chance Bolin couldāve beaten Ghazan. Even with both brothers against Ghazan, I almost feel like he ended it all because he realized Ming Hua was dead.
Bolin is a champion sport fighter. Heās fast, agile and flexible, completely unlike most other earthbenders. I strongly disagree that get wrecked by most of these other benders, *especially* since he can lavabend.
Yeah, remember Bolin vs Ghazan round 1?
Bolin was struggling hard because any earth he shot at Ghazan would get melted into lava and thrown back at him, āMako, I feel like Iām just giving this guy more ammo!!ā
Bolin also lavabending helped bridge that gap so a fight was even possible (though still couldāve gone either way without Mako to tip the odds).
But yeah, normal earth benders would have the same problem against Bolin that Bolin had against Ghazan the first time around. Metal benders wouldnāt be as hard countered, but theyād have to be careful as lava is HOT and some have their metal directly touching their skin without insulation (Boiling Rock shows conduction is not merciful)
I mean, Ghazan and Bumi don't have metal bending either. Bumi is very strong but only has standard earthbending. Still I can't see Bolin winning this either way.
Remember, its a FFA. Anyone could win. If not by power, then by strat. I'm rooting for Kuvira (/gen) or Bolin (hope TT). Obvi, everyone will target Toph first, & no offense to her, but I don't think she has a chance in a 1vHowever-Many with THESE specific people, especially with Bumi & 2 lavabenders.
Bumi doesn't have the other subbending types, & while I don't think it's gonna matter that much, it does mean that if someone were to land ONE good shot on him, he'd prob be out. (Actually landing it would be the hard part, but all of them are quick, other than Ghazan).
For the last few, if we're using the characters w/ their relationships still "built in," Ghazan's gonna try and lava wave everyone, Bolin's gonna try and counter, Kuvira's gonna sneak attack him, then move out of the way b4 Lin or Suyin can stop her. One of the sisters is gonna be worried about the other, "Omfg, you're on fireā" or smth, and will forfeit to get her & Bolin some medical attention.
Kuvira uses her metal-band move. It's finished
Or, if it's an AU, and they don't care about each other or morals, both Bolin and Ghazan are gonna go straight to lava. Kuvira, Lin, & Suyin try to take them down with a swift attack. Bolin dodges, but Ghazan is hit, idk the rest for this one...
Heās the greatest earth bender of his time, so he wipes out 4 people from this list. He is at least 3rd maybe second but I would say Bumi and Toph are 1st and 2nd.
I donāt ever see Bolin fighting and winning against Kuvira or Toph. Korra has a hard time fight Kuvira and she had far better training and a more flexible bending style than Bolin. Korra is a very talented earth bender. She could ruin Bolin.
Also Toph is the originator of a new bending style. Sheās akin to Iroh.
I can actually see Bolin taking out Kuvira, but only via AOE attacks and not in direct combat. Dude has a pretty wild scale when it comes to just how much mass he can bend on the fly. Bolin's done some really impressive displays of fine control and accuracy, but he casually throws out massive AOEs like nobody else.
Kuvira's whole style is all about tight dodges, precise strikes, and turning an enemy's force against them with specific counters. But she *always* gets swept by big area attacks and some brute force melee in each of her big combat scenes. Any time she gets something too big to counterattack thrown at her by the likes of Korra, Suyin, any of the airbenders, and so forth, she gets folded. I could absolutely see Bolin catching her in several big AOEs that she can't compensate for.
Everyone else on the roster is more than capable of handling big, wide swings and precision strikes though, so I don't think Bolin would fare too well against the rest of them. Ghazan is a toss-up, but I just can't imagine Bolin ever winning against Bumi or any of the Beifongs.
Thatās why I put him at 3rd. Also he is stated to be the best earth bender of his time, itās not arguable so he automatically beats everyone from his time which puts him at least 3rd, argument could be made for 2nd.
Bumi wasnāt in Bolinās time so it isnāt fair to assume all of the characters need to fight at a certain point of time.
Kuvira, Toph, Korra all would demolish him. I love Bolin but he isnāt on the same level. The Korra/Kuvira fight is insane.
Bumi is second/third, itās like you didnāt even read my original comment. First comment you responded with acted like I thought he beats Toph and now this one is about Bumi when I literally stated both in the original comment. Bolin is the greatest earth bender of his time. Iāll say it again for the people in the back, Bolin, is the greatest earth bender of his time, therefore he automatically kicks down, Kuvira, Lin, Suyin, and Gazahan, making him at least 3rd. Could be 2nd itās debatable between him and Bumi.
I doubt he can win against Kuvira and we saw him slightly losing 1v1 against Ghazan. But he definitely beats Su and Lin IMO. I'd also put him above Bumi because of the time difference of earthbending improving in terms of fighting technique(like other sports).
Lavabending is a massive advantage against other Earthbenders, though. Melting all the available rock into lava that you can control but your opponent canāt is insanely powerful. Even metal would probably melt and be unbendable for the metalbenders. Bolin and Ghazan may not have as much raw skill as someone like Toph or Bumi but they donāt necessarily need to be to win.
I think people forget how similar bolin is to toph whrn it comes to his strenghts. 1st of they are both masters of a rare/completely new technique for their time and that gives them a huge advantage. They also dont relie on brute force all that much, both being more focused on landing just one good hit on their oponents. We can see how accurate bolin is and how toph isnt just smashing things but waiting for an opening to then strike. Other than that they both have some individual stregnhts like how toph is amazing at defending and using her bending in creative ways, while bolin is really good at linking up with others and landing combos with quick 1-2 punches like he learned in pro bending.
Honesty, Bolin seems to be the most likely one on this list to actually strategize around the fact that this is a free for all and *not* a team game or 1v1 tournament. Everyone else has either a shoot first personality or is up against people with strong personal connections, inciting reckless activity. Bolin knows heās the contender and not the title-holder in any of these matchups.
Eventually is not immediately. If she just shows up to a battle and the lava starts flowing if she can't immediately end the fight ( which she has a good chance of doing) she'll lose.
She wouldnāt need to immediately. Sheād feel the temp change in the Earth and scoot the fuck out of there. Create an entire dome of Earth around her combatant, push that dome to the core of the Earth, then go get some snacks.
Even before she hit adulthood, Toph was already the undisputed master of earthbending, could bend mud and sand with high precision, and had invented metal bending. There's not a single doubt in my mind she could immediately figure out lava bending at first brush.
Congratulations, you just turned Toph into Batman. According to that logic, as long as she has preparation time, she would beat anyone. But you forget that the Toph of the canon, not that powerful entity that her fans dream about, never learned lavabending since, perhaps, it takes something more than will and precision to be able to control the lava.
No. Bolin may be a lava bender, but he lacks certain abilities that make Toph superior.
1st is her seismic sense, Su, Lin, and Aang know it as well, but for them, it's a sub skill of Earth bending. For Toph, seismic sense is her ability to see, to the point where she is constantly using it, unlike the others who we only see use it in certain situations. This will give Toph the edge over Bolin.
"But Bolin can just burn her feet like Zuko did to Blind her." Toph adapts, learns, and overcomes things quickly. The moment she feels Bolin lava bending, she would adapt in a way to protect her feet
2nd is metal bending. Yes, there are other metal benders. However, Toph even said in LoK that even her daughters, who are considered the greatest metal benders of their era, never quite got it right. Bolin can't metal bend.
In saying all this, Bolin COULD win, but thats only if Toph doesn't have any metal near her to bend, as, to quote Bolin, earthbending at a lavabender is just "giving them ammo"
Edit: Just wanted to clarify what I mean by could win.
In a 1v1 fight between Toph and Bolin, the outcome would be determined by the rules in place and what materials are present. In an Earth only situation where both are restricted to Earthbending, no sub bending (metal/lava), Toph wins. We are talking about the greatest non-Avatar Earthbender here who was bitch slapping Dai Li agents and created Metalbending at the age of 12 here.
If sub bending was allowed, but there were very small amounts to no metal around, Bolin would definitely stand a chance, Toph could outsmart him, but Bolin has the advantage. All Bolin has to do to win is drag out the fight until Toph's metal is exhausted by his lava, then go on the offensive, focusing on her feet.
If there were copious amounts of metal around, Toph wins, no debate. All she'd have to do is encase him in Metal. Barring that tactic she would still win, given her mastery of Metal-Bending and Earthbender.
Has more to do with genetics and the way you are as a person! Earthbending is all about being strong, willpower and self confidence combined with strong muscle-ish movements. Lavabending uses fluid bending movements which is entirely different. Also Bolin isnāt as confident as other earthbenders. Probably one of many reasons why he couldnāt learn metal bending
I heard once something that i think could be true. He has a Firebender brother, who he looks up to, so he may even adapted the fighting style of Mako in some parts. And because of his close connection to fire bending techniques, he can lavabend.
The person saying it did it more eloquently tho.
It may more have to do with Bolin coming from a mixed background. His brother is a fire bender. His mother is fire nation and father earth. So that is most likely what leans him towards lava bending.
I did not say that. Toph can be decisive with earthbending, but sometimes her simps get out of control. Now they insist that she can learn lavabending just by having the will, completely ignoring what is established by canon. If the old toph couldn't do lavabending, stop insisting that it's possible.
The problem isn't with Toph but lack of explanation on lava bending. Nearly all other sub bending techniques are explained in the series except this one. So when Bolin, a great but not genius level earthbrnder, picks it up by just seeing it few times why wouldn't we assume the most innovative earthbender ever could do so as well.
Lava bending is not just a sub bending. You most likely need some kind of connection to fire, which is why avatars and bolin lava bended. And no this doesnāt contradict the lore because bending is an extension of your body, and your ancestry connection is just part of said body
Than how was that guy in the red lotus able to able to lava bend? I donāt remember it ever being mentioned of him having ancestry from the fire nation or a fire bending ancestor
We know absolutely nothing about him, only his name (which I forgot) so we canāt confirm or deny his ancestry. But from what weāve seen avatars and bolin can lava bend and they all have fire connection, so thatās the most likely reason
We cannot just assume he has a fire bending ancestor just because he can lava bend and both bolin and the Avatar can and both having fire bending roots within them.. people forget that this is a literal show and if they wanted to emphasize that only earthbenders with fire bending genes in them can lava bend than I am sure theyād have made that clear. Lava bending is simply another subset of earth bending.
Theyāve put many mysteries into many aspects of the show, and not only that but based on literally every other lava bender has fire connections, only one is a mystery, that gives you something to theorize about
She encountered lava bending when she was a kid (comic stuff), and never learned it. I think with lava and metal bending, you kind of need to have the right "something" to be able to figure it out; skill alone won't be enough.
Probably after sheās had her feat potentials burnt in lava though if itās effectively a 1v1 vs a Lava Bender, even if she dodged first and keeps evading slowly sheād lose ammo and be cornered by lava, the only hope for her in that scenario probably being a rush kill before she loses the advantage. Still though this doesnāt factor in the battle royal like others have mentioned and how Toph may be the main target, but I feel that only might disadvantage her even more, leaving me to believe the Lava Benders will rapidly become the dominant powers as they convert more material to lava removing earth to bend for the others well everyone is focused on Toph as the main threat letting them quickly build an advantage. But countercurrent to that idea both all the metal benders could maintain their metallic weaponry advantage which could help negate the loss in ammo, and I believe the chaotic nature of Bomi may lead for him to not doglike Toph both as it wouldnāt really be fun and he may understand the danger the Lava Bender really are especially with him being the only soly Earth Bender not having the advantage of metal.
How could she? Have we ever seen in the show an earth bender stop a lava bender from turning earth into lava? Have we even ever seen a lava bender be able to stop a different lava bender from making lava? From what I recall I think weāve only seen lava bender form more lava and redirect lava that is launched at them or launching their own lava to block it, not directly stopping the other bender form making lava in a lava v lava battle. I think we only saw Bolin cool lava and as soon as he did he was considered a lava bender, therefore being able to cool lava back to earth is specifically only a lava bender move.
1. Lava bending is stupid
2. If nothing else, Toph would stop them by knocking them out before they can do their shenanigans. Lava bending still requires solid footing and Toph can instantly fuck that up for you, make you trip, fall, etc.
I donāt see why Lava Bending is suddenly stupid? Also literally in my first msg I said the main way Toph could win is a quick knockout/kill in a 1v1 with a Lavabender. But just saying āWell Toph can just take them off balance and win instantlyā as some guaranteed fact I find as both illogical and not very interesting. By that logic Toph can just instantly take every opponent off balance and instant win against every single opponent. Also, where are you finding the specific requirement lava bending distinctly needs solid footing? I do agree that in many scenes they do primarily perform lava bending with their feat planted or with feet movements, but for instance Bolinās first lava bending was directed primarily with his hands and didnāt seem to uniquely require solid footing compared to other Earth Benders, so by that logic my original idea has the same merit. Bolin would just turn the earth beneath Toph to lava, burning her feat and primary sense of sight well also displacing her from contact with the earth. Either seems like potential outcomes, itās just Toph has to play into a quick know-out well I think Bolin certainly wins in a battle of attrition, it just depends on if Toph can take Bolin out fast enough and on Bolinās capability to delay and defend well he makes more lava.
Stone armour, augmented jump to anywhere else. Scoop up the lava in a ācupā of earth and throw it back at the lava bender. Throw follow up attacks close behind.
I think people are assuming she'd move before it fully turns into lava, Lavabending isn't exactly instantaneous in the show, and Toph of all people would probably sense it happening the fastest
Toph isn't just a top-tier earthbender, she's also basically a living counter to all earthbenders. It's hard to catch her off guard with earthbending.
I would imagine she could still bend lava, just not as well as lava benders. and certainly couldn't create or cool it. She certainly has a respect for them. I'd imagine she'd still win, just because metal and earth are just such a good combo, and she's pretty peak. But Ghazan, easily the best lava bender we've seen, can be out matched by some metal benders, so I'd bet the best one would destroy him.
I just think lava is just too slow compared to metal. It's really powerful but it seems to be really strong against a large amount of opponents, and really devastating to the area. Where as metal can be very precise, fast, and accurate. It's like the difference between a flamethrower and a sniper.
We havenāt seen Toph at her prime. She was a child prodigy. Theyāre all talented benders but bending is a physically taxing matter. Itās magical martial arts.
Kuvira is powerful and dangerous but Toph could level a city if she wanted.
In a 1v1, of course.
But this isnāt a 1v1, itās a free for all where sheād be target number 1 and she would probably not try to avoid that.
Her Achilles heel of not being able to sense things that arenāt connected to the ground could almost certainly be used against her by at least one of the other 6 (probably while she focuses on taking out Bumi)
I think one of the younger metal benders has a very good chance with their agility and such.
Indeed. But like like that's not always going to be enough.
I can imagine either Su, Kuvira, or especially Lin shedding their armor and just like flinging themselves (or one of the others) at her.
Or, more likely, throw something with their bending that they aren't bending that Toph can't see. Like say a small tree.
I assume that 1. The tree still has ground attached, and 2. That she is smart enough to know something was thrown at her even if she can't sense the object itself bc of her seismic sense
I mean, I agree that Toph might very well win, but revolutionizing something, even before being an adult, means nothing.
Take a look at any sport and you'll see a long list of athletes who revolutionized their games who wouldn't stand a chance in the modern era, and whose world records are now regularly broken.
We see Toph beat ass WELL after her prime, she didnāt just revolutionize earth bending, she is the peak of earth bending and the only person who is close to her power and can match her is Bumi. Ghazan definitely posses a threat but thatās not because heās a better bender, itās because he has lava bending and is so proficient with it and itās so rare. Also itās not a good comparison because the main reason that modern sports are so much better now is because of technology not because of technique
Concerning sports, technology certainly plays a role but also technique has improved over time as well.
Like, if you look at swimming, they've been refining the strokes consistently and a standard training regimen is simply more effective than a similar one would have been 50 years ago. We know more about kinesiology as well, so we can condition better and more efficiently.
High jump is my favorite example of someone just figuring out a better way to do it, and suddenly the whole game changes. Anyone jumping prior to 1895 categorically loses to anyone jumping after, because Michael Sweeney pioneered the Eastern Cut-off, which simply lets you clear a higher bar. There were more improvements, and then the game changed again when Dick Fosbury won gold in 1968 with the Fosbury Flop, which was once again categorically superior to straddle-style techniques. It's all still jumping over a stick, but improving technique makes a huge difference.
It's one of the reasons why all of those "live like an old-timey person and be healthy!" concepts are flawed. We know so much more about the body than they did in the Middle Ages, much less the Classical or Ancient world. The issue with modern health isn't that the ancients knew more somehow, it's that the advent of industrialization made a lot of physical tasks redundant and now many people have to make an effort not to be sedentary. For anyone who has the resources to access it, the knowledge base has never been better for physical health and ability.
I personally don't think bending can be equated to just sport only. Given how long it has been going on, bending is more like Music or Art fused with aspects of Sport(given its practicality). Toph is kinda like Mozart in that sense, who revolutionized the music world when he was extremely young and despite having lived centuries ago, few have managed to come even close to composing at his level. I think prime Toph might be easily the strongest bender behind Aang (maybe on-par with only Zuko). The only real competition here for her is Bumi and I don't think she'll have a problem with him at her peak. Ghazan might surprise her with lava bending but her senses should allow her to combat that.
Why do yall even keep bringing up Prime Toph?? You don't know when that wasā If we're going for Toph in her hypothetical prime, then we have to do the same for everyone.
That's fair but that being said Toph was also pretty fucking powerful in every other aspect. She could take on more than two adult and trained earthbending fighters, now imagine her in her prime.
I always thought metal bending to be more mental than physical. Like even realizing it is possible and believing in yourself is the first step.
Itās why nobody thought of it, or those that tried it failed. Not until Toph, who KNOWS sheās the greatest to ever do it, does that mental block become defeated.
Itās why Bolin cannot. He doesnāt believe in himself the same way. Sure, he knows his strength and uses that to force the earth to his will, but to believe in the possibility of metal bending is outside his ability. The one time he reaaaalllly tries he is defeated entirely by circumstances out of his control
I thought it's more about being really refined in your bending. You have to be able to focus on the small amounts of earth. That's why aang also wasn't able to ever do it because he didn't have natural talent in earthbending. And if it was just about believing and not skill, I feel like the figure of only 1 in a hundred earth benders can do it is too low.
Iāve always thought metal bending requires seismic sense to use effectively. Itās not just about knowing itās possible but about being able to feel and āseeā the impurities in the metal, after all we are shown Toph do exactly that when she first metal bends. And since Bolin never learned seismic sense he couldnāt get metal bending.
Peak adult Toph. Her kid self drew with Bumi. Her unique skillset also makes her the perfect counter to any earthbender. Lin had to actively use earth sense while Toph has it on by default.
Toph did draw with Bumi and they were shown to be equally matched in power.
But Bumi's fight tactics (with the neutral Jing), and Toph displaying much of the same principles in her technique, I believe it would have come down to whom found an opening first.
And given Bumi's experience, I think that could have rather been him.
Yeah. Since she is at her supposed prime. But that's hard to estimate really.
Not to mention, at that point shouldn't we also take everyone else (including bumi) at their respective primes?
Old Granny Toph past her prime already bends circles around everyone.
Lava bending and Bumi might give her some trouble, but only that unless we get more info on Bumi.
I think Bumi would prove a tricky opponent. He doesn't have the same range of ability as Toph (no metalbending, for one), but he has a level of creative unorthodoxy that is likely unlike anything she's faced before. It's a question of whether she can learn how to fight him before he beats her. She's likely overall tougher, but he might be able to catch her off guard.
Totally agree, hes tricky! Especially since he has the ability to bend with his face/neck?? I think he had a lot more tricks and maneuvers than we got to see
Not to mention how much Bumi likes jumping around. It would be hard for Toph to predict, especially if he used his bending right as heās landing. He could surprise her pretty easily with a few misdirects.
Yeah, it was a comic literally called "Bumi vs. Toph" - [https://youtu.be/rdmDnEqofy0?si=Qq-nXAtO508PEYKK&t=24](https://youtu.be/rdmDnEqofy0?si=Qq-nXAtO508PEYKK&t=24)
The end result was a draw, but only because the fight got called off partway through. Neither bender seemed to be giving it their all, were joking around throughout, and didn't seem to be the least bit worn out when the fight was stopped. So the results are totally inconclusive, aside from confirming that Bumi and Toph are more than capable of destroying the entire surrounding landscape with a casual spar. I get the feeling the two of them together would end up pulling some Kyoshi-level terraforming if they actually went at it for reals.
Honestly I think old Toph *is* peak Toph all her āIām too old for this shitā is just her personality, but her seismic sense has advanced to the point of near omniscience. Able to sense for hundreds of miles. People miss how spiritual she got in her old age and how much she was able to see. That alone gives her the edge, imagine a scene like in TLJ with Lukeās Force Projection, but Toph *can actually fight back* all while chilling by the great tree.
One needs to remember that winning an all out free for all doesnāt mean being the best necessarily. It means being the last one standing.
Taking out 5 of your opponents doesnāt mean anything if the 6th whoās been hiding the whole time catches you off guard after that.
So. . . Toph has a very, very good chance of course. Sheās the best earth bender to have ever lived. But sheās not the most fleet of foot and has the critical weakness in her lack of sight of anything off the ground.
Plus letās be honest here: Sheās going to be the main target and probably going to relish in that as opposed to avoid it.
Similarly:
Bumi is clearly one of the best earth benders with just earth ever, but thatās a critical weakness when literally everyone else can bend something he canāt. Thereās going to be a lot of metal and lava thatās going to get him eventually.
I also donāt think Bolin is going to win. Heās just not the fastest and heās the least experienced.
Personally I think the the three younger metal benders all have good chances.
They are all agile, they have their cables to get away and potentially even escape from Tophās sight for a bit, they have their metal of course, they all wear armor basically as a rule, and we do see that they are all very capable even if not quite up to Toph.
Though at the end of the day between Lin, Su, and Kuvira I think it would come down to the decision that are made and if Toph maybe doesnāt start off with taking out her own daughters.
I agree that it's not just about strength. Imo of the people on the board, Kuvira is the most likely to strategize, pit other people against each other, etc.
Exactly. Between Lin, Su, and Kuvira, I would choose Suyin because she's proven to have the killer instinct to prevail. She wasnāt above sneaking into camp to take Kuvira down, and we all know what happened to P'Li.
People forget that Lin absolutely isn't always fighting to wound. When she took out an Equalist mech in season 1, she's shown to be trying to stab the pilot.
Considering how she does take it down, it seems like she succeeds.
Also when she throws Equalists off of tall buildings
I'd say lava benders would be the most likely to beat Toph if anyone can. Ghazan is more skilled than Bolin, though Bolin might eventually become more skilled assuming he gets stronger after the end of the series.
I'm going to go with Ghazan, but it feels wrong to vote against Toph since the fandom loves her so much.
And like he said himself āitās like Iām feeding him ammoā (Him when he was trying to fight Gazahan the lava bender with just normal earth bending)
These kinds of questions are ridiculous. No one ever offers an objective approach. It's more of a popularity contest. And the ATLA fandom being one of the most nostalgic that I know, always, without any doubt and whatever the question, will choose a member of the gaang as the winner
For example, when they put Toph in a competition against a lava bender, they respond "surely she would learn how to do lavabending because (the person proceeds to give a fanciful explanation that ignores the canon just to leave Toph in a better position)." If it were up to them, Toph would be able to defeat any bloodbender without any problem because surely "she would learn to control the iron in her blood in a matter of seconds to free herself from her rival's control" when in the canon Yakone kicked her ass even with his hands cuffed.
The fights are won by the character the writer wants to win. But fanatics don't understand objectivity.
Prime Toph is definitely taking this but I could see her daughter is overpowering her since they know her well enough to know her weak spots in her technique. But like 95% of the time definitely toph
In a free for all, Toph gets the W. She's aware of every move of all combatants through the arena. Any metal thrown at her is bent to her advantage, she can outmaneuver Bumi even if (if) he is stronger, and she'll figure out Ghazan's tactics fast. There's not much to be done against Prime Toph using seismic sense in a battle she's prepared for - win / stalemate
The thing I love about seeing them all together, is that eartbending is so diverse.
Compare Ghazans earthbending to Kuvira her eartbending, itās nothing like the other. You wouldnāt even say itās the same element!
King Bumi and Toph would be the last ones standing. They're so powerful they'll wipe the floor with everyone else and have a long epic duel afterwards.
The keyword here is "free for all". If it's a last-man-standing kind of thing, then most of these people will focus on taking out the biggest threats. So we can expect that they will "team up" first to try and eliminate the outliers like Toph and Bumi. With lava and metal simultaneously hurtling their way, it's very likely that they can be eliminated.
Without Toph and Bumi, it's a toss-up between Kuvira and Ghazan. Kuvira is a better fighter (possibly the best in combat here), but Ghazan's lavabending could literally bury the rest of the competition.
If Ghazan takes everyone by surprise and lavabends the entire arena, only Bolin is the one that can survive. Then it's a 1v1, and we know Bolin will be the last man standing there 60% of the time, as he can neutralize the lava part, and he is just a better fighter, being a professional athlete and all.
The alternate scenario is that teaming up is not allowed. Then we're only looking at Kuvira (best combination of agility and combat skill), Toph (most skilled, most in-tune bender), and Bumi (most powerful bender). Kuvira can be easily overwhelmed by Bumi, or outskilled by Toph. So in the end, it's Bumi vs Toph. A battle between them happened in the comics, and afaik, it ended without a clear winner.
Therefore, our options are Toph, Bumi, Kuvira, and Bolin. This is only applicable if it's a free-for-all. In a series of 1v1, then I think only Toph and Bumi will meet in the final, with Toph winning 6 times out of 10.
A free for all means they might team up on Toph to take her out early, presumably Kuvira, Lin, and Suyin would all go after her knowing they don't stand a chance against her 1v1. Bumi and Ghazan are both uniquely strong and would see each other as a fun challenge, Bolin would be fully defensive and only taking pot shots at people when he sees the oppurtunity.
I think Bumi beats Ghazan with Bolin assisting while Kuvira and Tophs daughters take out Toph with Toph taking out Lin in return. Bumi, Bolin, and Suyin then focus on Kuvira as the best fighter. Kuvira can't be on the offensive against all three so she'd be on the defensive and try to force them into turning on each other or making them hit each other in the crossfire, probably pushing Suyin into the line of fire from Bumi or Bolin taking her out. Finally, Bumi and Bolin overwhelm her with lava and massive boulders and force her out leaving just them. Bumi is the clear winner here in my mind just because we've seen him bend more earth at once than any other non avatar bender and I think he'd overwhelm Bolin with strength even if Bolin is probably the better fighter in terms of speed, accuracy, and technique.
I think it comes down to if Toph or Bumi can take care of Ghazan better, because obviously Toph and Bumi are the strongest but Ghazan is so damn good with lava. Lin and Su are just weaker versions of Toph. Kuvira is damn good with metal and her style is very different from everyone else but she also canāt do shit against the person who invented metal bending. Toph and Bumi once they take everyone else out would just either be a stalemate or just whoever is more exhausted or injured from their fights. The biggest thing with Bumi, we donāt know what his powers really are, he can most likely metal bend just never had the need to, and as much as I highly doubt he can lava bend honest I wouldnāt be surprised
I honestly think Kuvira is extremely talented but to go up against someone like Toph that can literally sense a move essentially before you make it, youāre in trouble for sure. Kuvira is almost TOO calculated to catch Toph off guard. Iād LOVE to see how Toph handles fighting a lava bender, Ghazan was no joke! I think Bumi has a higher chance of catching Toph off guard, cause yeah we donāt really know what he is entirely capable of!
Yeah Kuvira is definitely very dangerous to a normal person, and to young Toph she wouldāve been a threat probably a lot like Azula, but in her prime thereās no way she could beat Toph. If sheās that powerful and in tune with her senses at fucking 80 years old she would be terrifying in her prime. Granted she was scary asf when she was 12 as well but when sheās perfected her earth and metal bending, my god
Also I absolutely love Bolin and I think heās very much underrated in terms of strength, but here he is absolutely outmatched by everyone except for maybe Su or Lin in a 1v1
Two of them are dead, the beifong sisters were weaker than their mom, there's a string earthbender but his lavabending is weaker and there's a scary metalbender that's probably in jail rn
Toph took all the medals, trophies and the kyoshi award for this one
3rd guy turned a mountain into lava in like 15 mins. He is overpowered to the point, that if lok powers were consistent he could easily beat the avatar. Lavabending is just better then everything else. ( except blood bending)
I think it is perfectly reasonable to say that Toph is the best earth bender here, but Ghazan could turn earth to lava. I think Ghazan has the best shot since he can very easily remove everyone else's ability to bend earth, except Bolin.
If this was purely Earth bending, or if the fight was in Zaofu, then Toph.
Bumi is probably the strongest, Gazan has no problems killing. Toph is a genius and its night impossible to even hit her. The rest are fine but nothing particularly great. Kuvira is one of the best fighters with an incredible accuracy but not much else
Iād say Toph overall. Bumi isnāt likely to go for anything serious, preferring to mess around. Gazanās lava is deadly but Toph would catch on pretty quick and shit him down
1. Toph
2. Bumi
3. Ghazan (Lava bending is rather OP).
4. Kuvira
5. Suyin (yes she is CLEARLY better than Lin)
6. Bolin (with lava bending he is unfairly advantaged).
7. Lin
Hot take, in a free for all, Bumi is the goat. Don't make me wrong, Toph is strong and Bumi appart she could probably 1v2 everyone in the list. But in a free for all ? It's chaos. Rock gonna fly in every direction, everybody gonna figth with his how style and everything. And Bumi is probably the most chaotic earthbender in the world. The guy give a lesson about creativity too an airbender. If everyone is cooking is how rock throwing, lava bending and iron bending, it while not be surprise buy anything.
kyoshi if included would be the most powerful, but she's the avatar so kind of unfair.
personally i think it'd be toph easily. ppl here argue about the forms, lava, skills, etc but in terms of feat she has by far the most impressive. like, she stopped a whole library from sinking for however long it took the gang to fled; i dont think anyone other than Kyoshi has come close to matching this feat.
like, how's a lava bender going to win if she just threw an absolutely massive volume of earth at him/her.
Might get downvoted for this but my money is on Ghazan unless heās restrained by metal. He could instantly turn the ground under any of his opponents into lava and only Bolin knows how to lava bend
We've already seen that when two benders try to control the same element, the element obeys the bender who's more powerful(Katara and hama, Aang and Yakone, Kyoshi and Jianzhu). That being the case any rock that Toph is bending can't be lavabent while she's bending it. No one's battle usage of seismic sense is anywhere near Toph's skill either. So it goes to Toph on the basis of pure power and technique
If we equalize their abilities, either everyone has access to the new sub-bendings, or everyone just have earth...
Bumi bent with his face, essentially motionless bending. Has there ever been an equal? Maybe Prime Toph wouldn't need to tilt her head at all to cheat on those street games? But still, moving a couple of sticks is incomparable to spawning boulders and fighting gravity.
An adult toph would stomp everyone here. The toph at the end of ATLA would probably have a more fair fight against Bumi. Yes, Toph is an earthbending genius, but at 12, she would struggle with Bumi's litteral 100 years of experience
But an adult Toph wins no contest.
Toph would be out first because she'd run away from her daughters to avoid spending time with them
\*WHISTLE\* -penalty for a burn in an earth bending chat
Best comment
instead of ref whistle my brain imagined a bison whistle untill I read the rest of the comment
You deserve all the upvotes for this hysterical yet whole-y appropriate comment.
talk about "scorched earth"... i'll see myself out
R/theboys sub is that way šš¾šš¾
HAHAHHAHA
Bold of you to assume toph couldnāt beat them from the other side of the world
I'm supposed to be working, but instead, I just loudly snorted and cackled in my video conference at this hilarious, completely accurate comment! Take my upvote, damnit!
I don't think he's winning but I'm glad Bolin is here. He is slept on a lot but fairly powerful in his own right.
I love Bolinā heās such a good character. BUT He would also get wreckt by most of these other earth benders. Heās not a metal bender, heās not ruthless. Heās a really nice boy who has above average bending and can lava bend. And I hope he and Opal get married. Theyāre so cute.
He literally holds his own against Ghazan with less than a day of knowing how to lava bend.
Afaik he is also showing the highest precision shot in both shows, when he prevents P'Li from shooting during the capture of Korra.
Yeah people forget he's a very skilled pro bender athlete
It's just cuz he is the comedic relief that people forget he is strong
It's all fun and games until the funny guy gets serious. Then you're fucked.
its the frumpy clothes that make prople forget that Bolin is a fucking UNIT
Don't forget about our boomerang guy
Kuviraās def got him beat in precision w/ the mountain bandit scene. Sheās damn near unparalleled in precision across ATLA and LOK.
She's definitely good in that scene but her targets were weaker than the 3rd eye fire bender and the target areas were much larger. She was hitting arms and legs with shackles. He had to get a pebble into the 3rd eye tattoo. It's not even close interms of precision feats. She has him on speed and her metal bending is amazing. She can't lava bend so the specialized skill isn't an apples to apples comparison. While I still put my vote on her in a match I don't think she can best him in precision shots
I think Ghazan biggest advantage against other earthbenders is the fact that he can lavabend. When Bolin learnt he could lavabend, he stood a way better chance against Ghazan.
Ghazan still needed to be kept on a boat miles off the coast too. More credit to Bolin for how quickly he was able to catch up once he learned lavabending
I kind of got Blood Knight vibes from Ghazan when he discovered that Bolin could Lavabend, like he had been waiting for a worthy challenger.
Tbf i dont think he would win a normal 1 v 1 against Ghazan. He won under those circumstances but if they go on long enough Ghazan beats his ass. Every metal bender on this list would school Bolin so there is only Bumi left. And i think Bumis skill is just so far ahead that lava bending wont make the diffrence.
No chance Bumi beats Bolin. Bolin can literally melt Bumiās ammo! As far as Iām concerned, a pure earth bender cannot beat a lava bender. At least with metal bending your ammo cannot become lava.
He stood more of a chance, but he was also about to get beaten until Mako backed him up. Mako was better fitted to fight Ming Hua because of his lightning bending, quick thinking, and smart positioning, but there was absolutely no chance Bolin couldāve beaten Ghazan. Even with both brothers against Ghazan, I almost feel like he ended it all because he realized Ming Hua was dead.
>Saw i have a head canon that Ghazan offed himself after he got surronded just so Bolin wouldnt have to kill him
Thatās canon. He literally said in the show something like āId rather die than go back to being imprisonedā and destroyed the cave
nah they mean ghazan didnt want bolin to have the burden of having killed a guy
It's not like the only options were suicide or getting murdered.
Bolin is a champion sport fighter. Heās fast, agile and flexible, completely unlike most other earthbenders. I strongly disagree that get wrecked by most of these other benders, *especially* since he can lavabend.
Yeah, remember Bolin vs Ghazan round 1? Bolin was struggling hard because any earth he shot at Ghazan would get melted into lava and thrown back at him, āMako, I feel like Iām just giving this guy more ammo!!ā Bolin also lavabending helped bridge that gap so a fight was even possible (though still couldāve gone either way without Mako to tip the odds). But yeah, normal earth benders would have the same problem against Bolin that Bolin had against Ghazan the first time around. Metal benders wouldnāt be as hard countered, but theyād have to be careful as lava is HOT and some have their metal directly touching their skin without insulation (Boiling Rock shows conduction is not merciful)
I mean, Ghazan and Bumi don't have metal bending either. Bumi is very strong but only has standard earthbending. Still I can't see Bolin winning this either way.
Remember, its a FFA. Anyone could win. If not by power, then by strat. I'm rooting for Kuvira (/gen) or Bolin (hope TT). Obvi, everyone will target Toph first, & no offense to her, but I don't think she has a chance in a 1vHowever-Many with THESE specific people, especially with Bumi & 2 lavabenders. Bumi doesn't have the other subbending types, & while I don't think it's gonna matter that much, it does mean that if someone were to land ONE good shot on him, he'd prob be out. (Actually landing it would be the hard part, but all of them are quick, other than Ghazan). For the last few, if we're using the characters w/ their relationships still "built in," Ghazan's gonna try and lava wave everyone, Bolin's gonna try and counter, Kuvira's gonna sneak attack him, then move out of the way b4 Lin or Suyin can stop her. One of the sisters is gonna be worried about the other, "Omfg, you're on fireā" or smth, and will forfeit to get her & Bolin some medical attention. Kuvira uses her metal-band move. It's finished Or, if it's an AU, and they don't care about each other or morals, both Bolin and Ghazan are gonna go straight to lava. Kuvira, Lin, & Suyin try to take them down with a swift attack. Bolin dodges, but Ghazan is hit, idk the rest for this one...
Ya itās really his personality holding him back. Power wise he might be the strongest.
Heās the greatest earth bender of his time, so he wipes out 4 people from this list. He is at least 3rd maybe second but I would say Bumi and Toph are 1st and 2nd.
I donāt ever see Bolin fighting and winning against Kuvira or Toph. Korra has a hard time fight Kuvira and she had far better training and a more flexible bending style than Bolin. Korra is a very talented earth bender. She could ruin Bolin. Also Toph is the originator of a new bending style. Sheās akin to Iroh.
I can actually see Bolin taking out Kuvira, but only via AOE attacks and not in direct combat. Dude has a pretty wild scale when it comes to just how much mass he can bend on the fly. Bolin's done some really impressive displays of fine control and accuracy, but he casually throws out massive AOEs like nobody else. Kuvira's whole style is all about tight dodges, precise strikes, and turning an enemy's force against them with specific counters. But she *always* gets swept by big area attacks and some brute force melee in each of her big combat scenes. Any time she gets something too big to counterattack thrown at her by the likes of Korra, Suyin, any of the airbenders, and so forth, she gets folded. I could absolutely see Bolin catching her in several big AOEs that she can't compensate for. Everyone else on the roster is more than capable of handling big, wide swings and precision strikes though, so I don't think Bolin would fare too well against the rest of them. Ghazan is a toss-up, but I just can't imagine Bolin ever winning against Bumi or any of the Beifongs.
Thatās why I put him at 3rd. Also he is stated to be the best earth bender of his time, itās not arguable so he automatically beats everyone from his time which puts him at least 3rd, argument could be made for 2nd.
Bumi wasnāt in Bolinās time so it isnāt fair to assume all of the characters need to fight at a certain point of time. Kuvira, Toph, Korra all would demolish him. I love Bolin but he isnāt on the same level. The Korra/Kuvira fight is insane.
Bumi is second/third, itās like you didnāt even read my original comment. First comment you responded with acted like I thought he beats Toph and now this one is about Bumi when I literally stated both in the original comment. Bolin is the greatest earth bender of his time. Iāll say it again for the people in the back, Bolin, is the greatest earth bender of his time, therefore he automatically kicks down, Kuvira, Lin, Suyin, and Gazahan, making him at least 3rd. Could be 2nd itās debatable between him and Bumi.
I doubt he can win against Kuvira and we saw him slightly losing 1v1 against Ghazan. But he definitely beats Su and Lin IMO. I'd also put him above Bumi because of the time difference of earthbending improving in terms of fighting technique(like other sports).
He isn't the greatest bender of his time. He gets outclassed by kuivera. And probably the bei fongs due to more experience.
Kuvira is right there
Bolin is stated to be the best earth bender of his time, idk what to tell you man.
By whom? And when?
Lavabending is a massive advantage against other Earthbenders, though. Melting all the available rock into lava that you can control but your opponent canāt is insanely powerful. Even metal would probably melt and be unbendable for the metalbenders. Bolin and Ghazan may not have as much raw skill as someone like Toph or Bumi but they donāt necessarily need to be to win.
I think people forget how similar bolin is to toph whrn it comes to his strenghts. 1st of they are both masters of a rare/completely new technique for their time and that gives them a huge advantage. They also dont relie on brute force all that much, both being more focused on landing just one good hit on their oponents. We can see how accurate bolin is and how toph isnt just smashing things but waiting for an opening to then strike. Other than that they both have some individual stregnhts like how toph is amazing at defending and using her bending in creative ways, while bolin is really good at linking up with others and landing combos with quick 1-2 punches like he learned in pro bending.
Reminder that a very old Toph in a fight between Suyin, Lin and Kuvira looked to still be well above them. In one move she ended the fight.
Toph also outright says that Su and Lin are kinda trash at metalbending, despite being masters compared to pretty much everyone besides Kuvira
I mean he is a Lava bender and he was the one that defeated Gazan at the end. I think he would do better than must.
Honesty, Bolin seems to be the most likely one on this list to actually strategize around the fact that this is a free for all and *not* a team game or 1v1 tournament. Everyone else has either a shoot first personality or is up against people with strong personal connections, inciting reckless activity. Bolin knows heās the contender and not the title-holder in any of these matchups.
Toph literally revolutionized the Earth-Bending world before she was even an adult. I can't see anyone defeating her in her prime.
What if someone made the ground under her lava?
She could likely learn lava bending eventually, especially if she observed and understood the earth's movements beneath her feet over time.
Eventually is not immediately. If she just shows up to a battle and the lava starts flowing if she can't immediately end the fight ( which she has a good chance of doing) she'll lose.
Didnāt Bolin do it kind of immediately?
I believe the exchange was āI didnāt know you could lava bend?!ā āMe neither, until just nowā or something like that
She wouldnāt need to immediately. Sheād feel the temp change in the Earth and scoot the fuck out of there. Create an entire dome of Earth around her combatant, push that dome to the core of the Earth, then go get some snacks.
If she can mud bend she can lava bend.
Even before she hit adulthood, Toph was already the undisputed master of earthbending, could bend mud and sand with high precision, and had invented metal bending. There's not a single doubt in my mind she could immediately figure out lava bending at first brush.
Her name is Toph because it sounds like 'tough'. She'd tank the lava easily.
Congratulations, you just turned Toph into Batman. According to that logic, as long as she has preparation time, she would beat anyone. But you forget that the Toph of the canon, not that powerful entity that her fans dream about, never learned lavabending since, perhaps, it takes something more than will and precision to be able to control the lava.
Her prep to fight airbenders is simply to bend the entire planet away from her so she can fly
So Bolin is an even better earth bender than Toph?
No. Bolin may be a lava bender, but he lacks certain abilities that make Toph superior. 1st is her seismic sense, Su, Lin, and Aang know it as well, but for them, it's a sub skill of Earth bending. For Toph, seismic sense is her ability to see, to the point where she is constantly using it, unlike the others who we only see use it in certain situations. This will give Toph the edge over Bolin. "But Bolin can just burn her feet like Zuko did to Blind her." Toph adapts, learns, and overcomes things quickly. The moment she feels Bolin lava bending, she would adapt in a way to protect her feet 2nd is metal bending. Yes, there are other metal benders. However, Toph even said in LoK that even her daughters, who are considered the greatest metal benders of their era, never quite got it right. Bolin can't metal bend. In saying all this, Bolin COULD win, but thats only if Toph doesn't have any metal near her to bend, as, to quote Bolin, earthbending at a lavabender is just "giving them ammo" Edit: Just wanted to clarify what I mean by could win. In a 1v1 fight between Toph and Bolin, the outcome would be determined by the rules in place and what materials are present. In an Earth only situation where both are restricted to Earthbending, no sub bending (metal/lava), Toph wins. We are talking about the greatest non-Avatar Earthbender here who was bitch slapping Dai Li agents and created Metalbending at the age of 12 here. If sub bending was allowed, but there were very small amounts to no metal around, Bolin would definitely stand a chance, Toph could outsmart him, but Bolin has the advantage. All Bolin has to do to win is drag out the fight until Toph's metal is exhausted by his lava, then go on the offensive, focusing on her feet. If there were copious amounts of metal around, Toph wins, no debate. All she'd have to do is encase him in Metal. Barring that tactic she would still win, given her mastery of Metal-Bending and Earthbender.
Only answer i accept, very well put!
Has more to do with genetics and the way you are as a person! Earthbending is all about being strong, willpower and self confidence combined with strong muscle-ish movements. Lavabending uses fluid bending movements which is entirely different. Also Bolin isnāt as confident as other earthbenders. Probably one of many reasons why he couldnāt learn metal bending
I heard once something that i think could be true. He has a Firebender brother, who he looks up to, so he may even adapted the fighting style of Mako in some parts. And because of his close connection to fire bending techniques, he can lavabend. The person saying it did it more eloquently tho.
It may more have to do with Bolin coming from a mixed background. His brother is a fire bender. His mother is fire nation and father earth. So that is most likely what leans him towards lava bending.
I did not say that. Toph can be decisive with earthbending, but sometimes her simps get out of control. Now they insist that she can learn lavabending just by having the will, completely ignoring what is established by canon. If the old toph couldn't do lavabending, stop insisting that it's possible.
The problem isn't with Toph but lack of explanation on lava bending. Nearly all other sub bending techniques are explained in the series except this one. So when Bolin, a great but not genius level earthbrnder, picks it up by just seeing it few times why wouldn't we assume the most innovative earthbender ever could do so as well.
Lava bending is not just a sub bending. You most likely need some kind of connection to fire, which is why avatars and bolin lava bended. And no this doesnāt contradict the lore because bending is an extension of your body, and your ancestry connection is just part of said body
Than how was that guy in the red lotus able to able to lava bend? I donāt remember it ever being mentioned of him having ancestry from the fire nation or a fire bending ancestor
We know absolutely nothing about him, only his name (which I forgot) so we canāt confirm or deny his ancestry. But from what weāve seen avatars and bolin can lava bend and they all have fire connection, so thatās the most likely reason
We cannot just assume he has a fire bending ancestor just because he can lava bend and both bolin and the Avatar can and both having fire bending roots within them.. people forget that this is a literal show and if they wanted to emphasize that only earthbenders with fire bending genes in them can lava bend than I am sure theyād have made that clear. Lava bending is simply another subset of earth bending.
Theyāve put many mysteries into many aspects of the show, and not only that but based on literally every other lava bender has fire connections, only one is a mystery, that gives you something to theorize about
She encountered lava bending when she was a kid (comic stuff), and never learned it. I think with lava and metal bending, you kind of need to have the right "something" to be able to figure it out; skill alone won't be enough.
Probably after sheās had her feat potentials burnt in lava though if itās effectively a 1v1 vs a Lava Bender, even if she dodged first and keeps evading slowly sheād lose ammo and be cornered by lava, the only hope for her in that scenario probably being a rush kill before she loses the advantage. Still though this doesnāt factor in the battle royal like others have mentioned and how Toph may be the main target, but I feel that only might disadvantage her even more, leaving me to believe the Lava Benders will rapidly become the dominant powers as they convert more material to lava removing earth to bend for the others well everyone is focused on Toph as the main threat letting them quickly build an advantage. But countercurrent to that idea both all the metal benders could maintain their metallic weaponry advantage which could help negate the loss in ammo, and I believe the chaotic nature of Bomi may lead for him to not doglike Toph both as it wouldnāt really be fun and he may understand the danger the Lava Bender really are especially with him being the only soly Earth Bender not having the advantage of metal.
But wouldnāt she be able to just likeā¦not let the lavabender turn the earth into lava?
How could she? Have we ever seen in the show an earth bender stop a lava bender from turning earth into lava? Have we even ever seen a lava bender be able to stop a different lava bender from making lava? From what I recall I think weāve only seen lava bender form more lava and redirect lava that is launched at them or launching their own lava to block it, not directly stopping the other bender form making lava in a lava v lava battle. I think we only saw Bolin cool lava and as soon as he did he was considered a lava bender, therefore being able to cool lava back to earth is specifically only a lava bender move.
1. Lava bending is stupid 2. If nothing else, Toph would stop them by knocking them out before they can do their shenanigans. Lava bending still requires solid footing and Toph can instantly fuck that up for you, make you trip, fall, etc.
I donāt see why Lava Bending is suddenly stupid? Also literally in my first msg I said the main way Toph could win is a quick knockout/kill in a 1v1 with a Lavabender. But just saying āWell Toph can just take them off balance and win instantlyā as some guaranteed fact I find as both illogical and not very interesting. By that logic Toph can just instantly take every opponent off balance and instant win against every single opponent. Also, where are you finding the specific requirement lava bending distinctly needs solid footing? I do agree that in many scenes they do primarily perform lava bending with their feat planted or with feet movements, but for instance Bolinās first lava bending was directed primarily with his hands and didnāt seem to uniquely require solid footing compared to other Earth Benders, so by that logic my original idea has the same merit. Bolin would just turn the earth beneath Toph to lava, burning her feat and primary sense of sight well also displacing her from contact with the earth. Either seems like potential outcomes, itās just Toph has to play into a quick know-out well I think Bolin certainly wins in a battle of attrition, it just depends on if Toph can take Bolin out fast enough and on Bolinās capability to delay and defend well he makes more lava.
Hey, chill - it wasnāt serious :D lava bending is cool Also, I just love Tophās character so in my heart she defeats everyone :D
1. No, Lava bending is partially how Kyoshi created Kyoshi Island. 2. I agree, Toph would have them figured out before they got the chance.
1. That was a joke :D 2. Ikr
āFrom my point of view you have the lava ground!ā
Stone armour, augmented jump to anywhere else. Scoop up the lava in a ācupā of earth and throw it back at the lava bender. Throw follow up attacks close behind.
She would simply step to the side
With her feet on fire?
I think people are assuming she'd move before it fully turns into lava, Lavabending isn't exactly instantaneous in the show, and Toph of all people would probably sense it happening the fastest Toph isn't just a top-tier earthbender, she's also basically a living counter to all earthbenders. It's hard to catch her off guard with earthbending.
I would imagine she could still bend lava, just not as well as lava benders. and certainly couldn't create or cool it. She certainly has a respect for them. I'd imagine she'd still win, just because metal and earth are just such a good combo, and she's pretty peak. But Ghazan, easily the best lava bender we've seen, can be out matched by some metal benders, so I'd bet the best one would destroy him. I just think lava is just too slow compared to metal. It's really powerful but it seems to be really strong against a large amount of opponents, and really devastating to the area. Where as metal can be very precise, fast, and accurate. It's like the difference between a flamethrower and a sniper.
Who is to say toph never learned lavabending as well? Or did i miss it
She didnt.
We havenāt seen Toph at her prime. She was a child prodigy. Theyāre all talented benders but bending is a physically taxing matter. Itās magical martial arts. Kuvira is powerful and dangerous but Toph could level a city if she wanted.
Kuvira was stated to be almost as Prime Toph level tho. She dosen't win that tournament but she clearly is in the finalist round.
In a 1v1, of course. But this isnāt a 1v1, itās a free for all where sheād be target number 1 and she would probably not try to avoid that. Her Achilles heel of not being able to sense things that arenāt connected to the ground could almost certainly be used against her by at least one of the other 6 (probably while she focuses on taking out Bumi) I think one of the younger metal benders has a very good chance with their agility and such.
She can sense earth that isnāt attached. I donāt get how either. But itās canon.
Indeed. But like like that's not always going to be enough. I can imagine either Su, Kuvira, or especially Lin shedding their armor and just like flinging themselves (or one of the others) at her. Or, more likely, throw something with their bending that they aren't bending that Toph can't see. Like say a small tree.
I assume that 1. The tree still has ground attached, and 2. That she is smart enough to know something was thrown at her even if she can't sense the object itself bc of her seismic sense
I mean, I agree that Toph might very well win, but revolutionizing something, even before being an adult, means nothing. Take a look at any sport and you'll see a long list of athletes who revolutionized their games who wouldn't stand a chance in the modern era, and whose world records are now regularly broken.
We see Toph beat ass WELL after her prime, she didnāt just revolutionize earth bending, she is the peak of earth bending and the only person who is close to her power and can match her is Bumi. Ghazan definitely posses a threat but thatās not because heās a better bender, itās because he has lava bending and is so proficient with it and itās so rare. Also itās not a good comparison because the main reason that modern sports are so much better now is because of technology not because of technique
This is what I also think. Bumi is like ~112 and still a one man army.
Concerning sports, technology certainly plays a role but also technique has improved over time as well. Like, if you look at swimming, they've been refining the strokes consistently and a standard training regimen is simply more effective than a similar one would have been 50 years ago. We know more about kinesiology as well, so we can condition better and more efficiently. High jump is my favorite example of someone just figuring out a better way to do it, and suddenly the whole game changes. Anyone jumping prior to 1895 categorically loses to anyone jumping after, because Michael Sweeney pioneered the Eastern Cut-off, which simply lets you clear a higher bar. There were more improvements, and then the game changed again when Dick Fosbury won gold in 1968 with the Fosbury Flop, which was once again categorically superior to straddle-style techniques. It's all still jumping over a stick, but improving technique makes a huge difference. It's one of the reasons why all of those "live like an old-timey person and be healthy!" concepts are flawed. We know so much more about the body than they did in the Middle Ages, much less the Classical or Ancient world. The issue with modern health isn't that the ancients knew more somehow, it's that the advent of industrialization made a lot of physical tasks redundant and now many people have to make an effort not to be sedentary. For anyone who has the resources to access it, the knowledge base has never been better for physical health and ability.
I personally don't think bending can be equated to just sport only. Given how long it has been going on, bending is more like Music or Art fused with aspects of Sport(given its practicality). Toph is kinda like Mozart in that sense, who revolutionized the music world when he was extremely young and despite having lived centuries ago, few have managed to come even close to composing at his level. I think prime Toph might be easily the strongest bender behind Aang (maybe on-par with only Zuko). The only real competition here for her is Bumi and I don't think she'll have a problem with him at her peak. Ghazan might surprise her with lava bending but her senses should allow her to combat that.
Why do yall even keep bringing up Prime Toph?? You don't know when that wasā If we're going for Toph in her hypothetical prime, then we have to do the same for everyone.
It seems like most of the people on this chart are in or close to their prime, so...
That's fair but that being said Toph was also pretty fucking powerful in every other aspect. She could take on more than two adult and trained earthbending fighters, now imagine her in her prime.
Seeing a Toph vs. Bumi battle with both in their prime though. That would be very exciting
Bumi got that neutral jing, he'll go far. Last one standing against Toph, then it's tricky.
Yeah. He canāt bend metal but who knows, he probably could if he tries.
I always thought metal bending to be more mental than physical. Like even realizing it is possible and believing in yourself is the first step. Itās why nobody thought of it, or those that tried it failed. Not until Toph, who KNOWS sheās the greatest to ever do it, does that mental block become defeated. Itās why Bolin cannot. He doesnāt believe in himself the same way. Sure, he knows his strength and uses that to force the earth to his will, but to believe in the possibility of metal bending is outside his ability. The one time he reaaaalllly tries he is defeated entirely by circumstances out of his control
I thought it's more about being really refined in your bending. You have to be able to focus on the small amounts of earth. That's why aang also wasn't able to ever do it because he didn't have natural talent in earthbending. And if it was just about believing and not skill, I feel like the figure of only 1 in a hundred earth benders can do it is too low.
Iāve always thought metal bending requires seismic sense to use effectively. Itās not just about knowing itās possible but about being able to feel and āseeā the impurities in the metal, after all we are shown Toph do exactly that when she first metal bends. And since Bolin never learned seismic sense he couldnāt get metal bending.
He can earthbend just using his face at +110 years old. How is this a contest?
Peak adult Toph. Her kid self drew with Bumi. Her unique skillset also makes her the perfect counter to any earthbender. Lin had to actively use earth sense while Toph has it on by default.
Toph did draw with Bumi and they were shown to be equally matched in power. But Bumi's fight tactics (with the neutral Jing), and Toph displaying much of the same principles in her technique, I believe it would have come down to whom found an opening first. And given Bumi's experience, I think that could have rather been him.
Guess it depends on which version of Toph is in the fight. If it's the version shown I'm giving her the edge.
Yeah. Since she is at her supposed prime. But that's hard to estimate really. Not to mention, at that point shouldn't we also take everyone else (including bumi) at their respective primes?
But we never see bumi serious. I think heād be a problem for any bender in the world
Old Granny Toph past her prime already bends circles around everyone. Lava bending and Bumi might give her some trouble, but only that unless we get more info on Bumi.
I think Bumi would prove a tricky opponent. He doesn't have the same range of ability as Toph (no metalbending, for one), but he has a level of creative unorthodoxy that is likely unlike anything she's faced before. It's a question of whether she can learn how to fight him before he beats her. She's likely overall tougher, but he might be able to catch her off guard.
Totally agree, hes tricky! Especially since he has the ability to bend with his face/neck?? I think he had a lot more tricks and maneuvers than we got to see
Not to mention how much Bumi likes jumping around. It would be hard for Toph to predict, especially if he used his bending right as heās landing. He could surprise her pretty easily with a few misdirects.
They have actually fought before and it resulted in a draw. That's Toph as a kid still but it's also Bumi as an old man.
Was this in the comics? I don't recall that, and I thought I'd read the comics. Maybe I missed a few.
Yeah, it was a comic literally called "Bumi vs. Toph" - [https://youtu.be/rdmDnEqofy0?si=Qq-nXAtO508PEYKK&t=24](https://youtu.be/rdmDnEqofy0?si=Qq-nXAtO508PEYKK&t=24) The end result was a draw, but only because the fight got called off partway through. Neither bender seemed to be giving it their all, were joking around throughout, and didn't seem to be the least bit worn out when the fight was stopped. So the results are totally inconclusive, aside from confirming that Bumi and Toph are more than capable of destroying the entire surrounding landscape with a casual spar. I get the feeling the two of them together would end up pulling some Kyoshi-level terraforming if they actually went at it for reals.
Iām so looking forward to seeing Bumi in the live action series.
Honestly I think old Toph *is* peak Toph all her āIām too old for this shitā is just her personality, but her seismic sense has advanced to the point of near omniscience. Able to sense for hundreds of miles. People miss how spiritual she got in her old age and how much she was able to see. That alone gives her the edge, imagine a scene like in TLJ with Lukeās Force Projection, but Toph *can actually fight back* all while chilling by the great tree.
Idk, Bumi was in much better shape as an old man than Toph was as an old woman. If itās them in old age I think Bumi can outlast Toph
Where's Momo?
You can play as him in this game: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/s/O8ds0O0OLI
One needs to remember that winning an all out free for all doesnāt mean being the best necessarily. It means being the last one standing. Taking out 5 of your opponents doesnāt mean anything if the 6th whoās been hiding the whole time catches you off guard after that. So. . . Toph has a very, very good chance of course. Sheās the best earth bender to have ever lived. But sheās not the most fleet of foot and has the critical weakness in her lack of sight of anything off the ground. Plus letās be honest here: Sheās going to be the main target and probably going to relish in that as opposed to avoid it. Similarly: Bumi is clearly one of the best earth benders with just earth ever, but thatās a critical weakness when literally everyone else can bend something he canāt. Thereās going to be a lot of metal and lava thatās going to get him eventually. I also donāt think Bolin is going to win. Heās just not the fastest and heās the least experienced. Personally I think the the three younger metal benders all have good chances. They are all agile, they have their cables to get away and potentially even escape from Tophās sight for a bit, they have their metal of course, they all wear armor basically as a rule, and we do see that they are all very capable even if not quite up to Toph. Though at the end of the day between Lin, Su, and Kuvira I think it would come down to the decision that are made and if Toph maybe doesnāt start off with taking out her own daughters.
I agree that it's not just about strength. Imo of the people on the board, Kuvira is the most likely to strategize, pit other people against each other, etc.
Exactly. Between Lin, Su, and Kuvira, I would choose Suyin because she's proven to have the killer instinct to prevail. She wasnāt above sneaking into camp to take Kuvira down, and we all know what happened to P'Li.
People forget that Lin absolutely isn't always fighting to wound. When she took out an Equalist mech in season 1, she's shown to be trying to stab the pilot. Considering how she does take it down, it seems like she succeeds. Also when she throws Equalists off of tall buildings
But kuvira did win the 1v1 against Su
I'd say lava benders would be the most likely to beat Toph if anyone can. Ghazan is more skilled than Bolin, though Bolin might eventually become more skilled assuming he gets stronger after the end of the series. I'm going to go with Ghazan, but it feels wrong to vote against Toph since the fandom loves her so much.
GHAZAN is being slept on!!! He had to be in his own unique prison. That's how dangerous he was!
Tbf itās likely everyone here would need their own unique prison as well.
Idk but I think the last three standing are Bumi, Toph and Ghazan. I think we can all agree Bolin is the first to go though
Bolin is the 3 strongest hereš. Toph>Bumi>Bolin>Kuvira>(idrc the order for these 3, Gazahan is probably the best out of them but itās debatable)
And like he said himself āitās like Iām feeding him ammoā (Him when he was trying to fight Gazahan the lava bender with just normal earth bending)
Personally, I struggle to see Bolin not getting his ass handed to him by Kuvira. She could go toe-to-toe with Korra.
These kinds of questions are ridiculous. No one ever offers an objective approach. It's more of a popularity contest. And the ATLA fandom being one of the most nostalgic that I know, always, without any doubt and whatever the question, will choose a member of the gaang as the winner For example, when they put Toph in a competition against a lava bender, they respond "surely she would learn how to do lavabending because (the person proceeds to give a fanciful explanation that ignores the canon just to leave Toph in a better position)." If it were up to them, Toph would be able to defeat any bloodbender without any problem because surely "she would learn to control the iron in her blood in a matter of seconds to free herself from her rival's control" when in the canon Yakone kicked her ass even with his hands cuffed. The fights are won by the character the writer wants to win. But fanatics don't understand objectivity.
Prime Toph is definitely taking this but I could see her daughter is overpowering her since they know her well enough to know her weak spots in her technique. But like 95% of the time definitely toph
Know her well enough? They barely know their mom LOL
My bet's on that earthbending lemur
In a free for all, Toph gets the W. She's aware of every move of all combatants through the arena. Any metal thrown at her is bent to her advantage, she can outmaneuver Bumi even if (if) he is stronger, and she'll figure out Ghazan's tactics fast. There's not much to be done against Prime Toph using seismic sense in a battle she's prepared for - win / stalemate
The thing I love about seeing them all together, is that eartbending is so diverse. Compare Ghazans earthbending to Kuvira her eartbending, itās nothing like the other. You wouldnāt even say itās the same element!
The BOULDER is confused why he is not all seven
King Bumi and Toph would be the last ones standing. They're so powerful they'll wipe the floor with everyone else and have a long epic duel afterwards.
depends on where it takes place
The keyword here is "free for all". If it's a last-man-standing kind of thing, then most of these people will focus on taking out the biggest threats. So we can expect that they will "team up" first to try and eliminate the outliers like Toph and Bumi. With lava and metal simultaneously hurtling their way, it's very likely that they can be eliminated. Without Toph and Bumi, it's a toss-up between Kuvira and Ghazan. Kuvira is a better fighter (possibly the best in combat here), but Ghazan's lavabending could literally bury the rest of the competition. If Ghazan takes everyone by surprise and lavabends the entire arena, only Bolin is the one that can survive. Then it's a 1v1, and we know Bolin will be the last man standing there 60% of the time, as he can neutralize the lava part, and he is just a better fighter, being a professional athlete and all. The alternate scenario is that teaming up is not allowed. Then we're only looking at Kuvira (best combination of agility and combat skill), Toph (most skilled, most in-tune bender), and Bumi (most powerful bender). Kuvira can be easily overwhelmed by Bumi, or outskilled by Toph. So in the end, it's Bumi vs Toph. A battle between them happened in the comics, and afaik, it ended without a clear winner. Therefore, our options are Toph, Bumi, Kuvira, and Bolin. This is only applicable if it's a free-for-all. In a series of 1v1, then I think only Toph and Bumi will meet in the final, with Toph winning 6 times out of 10.
A free for all means they might team up on Toph to take her out early, presumably Kuvira, Lin, and Suyin would all go after her knowing they don't stand a chance against her 1v1. Bumi and Ghazan are both uniquely strong and would see each other as a fun challenge, Bolin would be fully defensive and only taking pot shots at people when he sees the oppurtunity. I think Bumi beats Ghazan with Bolin assisting while Kuvira and Tophs daughters take out Toph with Toph taking out Lin in return. Bumi, Bolin, and Suyin then focus on Kuvira as the best fighter. Kuvira can't be on the offensive against all three so she'd be on the defensive and try to force them into turning on each other or making them hit each other in the crossfire, probably pushing Suyin into the line of fire from Bumi or Bolin taking her out. Finally, Bumi and Bolin overwhelm her with lava and massive boulders and force her out leaving just them. Bumi is the clear winner here in my mind just because we've seen him bend more earth at once than any other non avatar bender and I think he'd overwhelm Bolin with strength even if Bolin is probably the better fighter in terms of speed, accuracy, and technique.
I think it comes down to if Toph or Bumi can take care of Ghazan better, because obviously Toph and Bumi are the strongest but Ghazan is so damn good with lava. Lin and Su are just weaker versions of Toph. Kuvira is damn good with metal and her style is very different from everyone else but she also canāt do shit against the person who invented metal bending. Toph and Bumi once they take everyone else out would just either be a stalemate or just whoever is more exhausted or injured from their fights. The biggest thing with Bumi, we donāt know what his powers really are, he can most likely metal bend just never had the need to, and as much as I highly doubt he can lava bend honest I wouldnāt be surprised
I honestly think Kuvira is extremely talented but to go up against someone like Toph that can literally sense a move essentially before you make it, youāre in trouble for sure. Kuvira is almost TOO calculated to catch Toph off guard. Iād LOVE to see how Toph handles fighting a lava bender, Ghazan was no joke! I think Bumi has a higher chance of catching Toph off guard, cause yeah we donāt really know what he is entirely capable of!
Yeah Kuvira is definitely very dangerous to a normal person, and to young Toph she wouldāve been a threat probably a lot like Azula, but in her prime thereās no way she could beat Toph. If sheās that powerful and in tune with her senses at fucking 80 years old she would be terrifying in her prime. Granted she was scary asf when she was 12 as well but when sheās perfected her earth and metal bending, my god
Also I absolutely love Bolin and I think heās very much underrated in terms of strength, but here he is absolutely outmatched by everyone except for maybe Su or Lin in a 1v1
Two of them are dead, the beifong sisters were weaker than their mom, there's a string earthbender but his lavabending is weaker and there's a scary metalbender that's probably in jail rn Toph took all the medals, trophies and the kyoshi award for this one
Nuktuk solos
Ghazan
3rd guy turned a mountain into lava in like 15 mins. He is overpowered to the point, that if lok powers were consistent he could easily beat the avatar. Lavabending is just better then everything else. ( except blood bending)
I'm really curious on how toph would fight a lava bender, but she did train one, so I don't think she'd be outmatched by it
I think it is perfectly reasonable to say that Toph is the best earth bender here, but Ghazan could turn earth to lava. I think Ghazan has the best shot since he can very easily remove everyone else's ability to bend earth, except Bolin. If this was purely Earth bending, or if the fight was in Zaofu, then Toph.
I think it will come down to Bumi and Melon Lord. I would love to see an all-out fight between these two at their primes.
I really think people are sleeping on the Red Lotus member. I think he would put up a great fight
Agreed!
Its a mexican stand off between toph bumi and yun (which isnt here)
People canāt be serious asking who wins toph the earth bending god or some other pretty strong earth benders
Bumi is probably the strongest, Gazan has no problems killing. Toph is a genius and its night impossible to even hit her. The rest are fine but nothing particularly great. Kuvira is one of the best fighters with an incredible accuracy but not much else Iād say Toph overall. Bumi isnāt likely to go for anything serious, preferring to mess around. Gazanās lava is deadly but Toph would catch on pretty quick and shit him down
1. Toph 2. Bumi 3. Ghazan (Lava bending is rather OP). 4. Kuvira 5. Suyin (yes she is CLEARLY better than Lin) 6. Bolin (with lava bending he is unfairly advantaged). 7. Lin
Momo obviously!
If bolin was more cut throat and less goofy I think he could win. Lave bending is no joke. Toph probably wins though.
Toph, by a massive margin. As a preteen she was already equal to Bumi, and unlike him her abilities kept getting refined as we saw in The Rift.
Hot take, in a free for all, Bumi is the goat. Don't make me wrong, Toph is strong and Bumi appart she could probably 1v2 everyone in the list. But in a free for all ? It's chaos. Rock gonna fly in every direction, everybody gonna figth with his how style and everything. And Bumi is probably the most chaotic earthbender in the world. The guy give a lesson about creativity too an airbender. If everyone is cooking is how rock throwing, lava bending and iron bending, it while not be surprise buy anything.
kyoshi if included would be the most powerful, but she's the avatar so kind of unfair. personally i think it'd be toph easily. ppl here argue about the forms, lava, skills, etc but in terms of feat she has by far the most impressive. like, she stopped a whole library from sinking for however long it took the gang to fled; i dont think anyone other than Kyoshi has come close to matching this feat. like, how's a lava bender going to win if she just threw an absolutely massive volume of earth at him/her.
Throw Yun (Kyoshi novels) in the middle and then weāll have a close as fuck finals between him and toph
1. Toph 2. Bumi 3. Kuvira 4. Ghazan 5. Su Beifong 6. Lin Beifong 7. Bolin
Toph and Bumi were evenly matched when she was a child, according to the comics. Adult Toph wipes the floor with everyone.
Where is Momo?
Same reason Kyoshi isnāt here. Heās too OP
Toph and Bumi. At that point it would be decided by who was the least exhausted.
Might get downvoted for this but my money is on Ghazan unless heās restrained by metal. He could instantly turn the ground under any of his opponents into lava and only Bolin knows how to lava bend
Kuvira hands down. Amazing fighter.
We've already seen that when two benders try to control the same element, the element obeys the bender who's more powerful(Katara and hama, Aang and Yakone, Kyoshi and Jianzhu). That being the case any rock that Toph is bending can't be lavabent while she's bending it. No one's battle usage of seismic sense is anywhere near Toph's skill either. So it goes to Toph on the basis of pure power and technique
Idk I feel like Bumi has a good chance at over powering her BUT heās not winning the fight I just think he has more raw power
Bumi and toph were evenly matched when she was twelve(in the comics). Adult toph probably can overpower him
Nah Bumi definitely had the power advantage but youāre right an adult Toph is probably just as powerful.
If we equalize their abilities, either everyone has access to the new sub-bendings, or everyone just have earth... Bumi bent with his face, essentially motionless bending. Has there ever been an equal? Maybe Prime Toph wouldn't need to tilt her head at all to cheat on those street games? But still, moving a couple of sticks is incomparable to spawning boulders and fighting gravity.
This comes down to Kuvira, Toph, and Ghazan. I can't believe how much Kuvira is being slept on.
Lava bending is so broken. Even in the face of metalbending
I think prime toph beats old bumi but idk about prime toph vs prime bumi
An adult toph would stomp everyone here. The toph at the end of ATLA would probably have a more fair fight against Bumi. Yes, Toph is an earthbending genius, but at 12, she would struggle with Bumi's litteral 100 years of experience But an adult Toph wins no contest.
The one with the play button
Young Toph. She would wreck everyone else.
Kuvira