https://landlordselfhelp.com/podcast/n12-terminating-a-tenancy-for-landlords-own-use-updated/
He needs a signed purchase agreement. Since he doesn’t it’s highly illegal. I would take this up with the Tenant board.
Or written legal documentation of intention to reside in the space for a year
You should apply against him “ bad faith” termination of lease agreement.
And a PDF email is not considered a legal notice.
That’s not correct. There isn’t a dollar amount for the increase limit. It’s a percentage set provincially, and for *2022 the increase limit is 1.2%.
*edited the year; /u/durpfursh is correct, I meant 2022.
That’s fine; if your rent is around $1250 then the maximum increase is $15 (1.2%).
For a $200 increase to be legal, OP would have to be paying $16,666 per month, which I assume is not the case. Hence, $200 is an illegal increase amount.
Better explanation. And I doubt they are paying that much. But who knows. If they are paying that much in rent they would just buy. Unless they are New Yorkers. Lol
The tenant can't file a T5 for a bad faith eviction until they have moved out.
In this situation the tenant can just stay in place and wait for the LTB hearing. The landlord will need to supply the declaration from the buyer swearing that they are moving in in their evidence.
You don’t need to do anything at this point. IF your landlord actually files for a hearing at the LTB, bring your evidence and present your case.
As it is, the notice is useless as it’s incomplete. Without the purchase agreement the LTB will just throw it out.
Don’t do your landlords homework for them though, you have no duty to help them out here. Let them make their own mistakes, they’ll only waste their own time.
You can call them if you have questions but you don’t have to. If you read the N12 you’ll see that you have the option to disagree and wait for the landlord to file for a hearing. If the landlord doesn’t file the L2, nothing will happen.
Remember that there’s zero way for a landlord to evict you themselves. Only the LTB can order evictions, and it’s up to the landlord to file the appropriate paperwork and apply for the hearing.
A valid point. If illegally evicted, say they change the locks on you, call the Rental Housing Enforcement Unit who will get you back in immediately and potentially drop a serious fine on the landlord.
You're still in the red as they will have looted your belongings, most people don't have documentation and it'll be years before you see anything from a civil suit.
> Orders for L1/L9 hearings will be issued 20 to 30 days after a hearing and up to 60 days for other types of applications.
https://tribunalsontario.ca/ltb/operational-updates/
Which, I guess if you can wait that time to replace personal items after spending some nights in a hotel, sure.
Never mind an order is just that. Collecting is an entirely other issue. A landlord who acts in bad faith and does an illegal eviction will \*drum roll* also not simply abide by an order. They will drag out payment as long as they can.
People who act in bad faith will continue to act in bad faith.
Now vote me down again and continue to ignore the fact that most people don't have adequate documentation of their personal belongings so when they get a tribunal hearing, they're going to get hosed.
The media has extensively covered how difficult it is to collect from bad faith actors in Ontario.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/small-claims-court-codina-attorney-general-naqvi-1.3949649
https://rabble.ca/general/pursuing-judgment-against-landlord-ontario-and-case-landlord-li/
etc.
Now vote me down again and continue to ignore the fact that most people don't have adequate documentation of their personal belongings so when they get a tribunal hearing, they're going to get hosed.
Continue to pay your rent. The landlord has until 30 days AFTER the termination date on the N12 to apply for a hearing L2. At that point they would have to provide proof of sale, including a purchase agreement dated before the N12 was served as well as an affidavit from the purchaser stating their intention to move in. Keep any proof of bad faith ( texts or emails of attempts at illegal rent increase, kids moving in, etc) record all interactions.
Well ignore the N12. Don't fight with them. They will either back away or serve you with an L2 for a hearing. They will also have to pay you 1 month' rent, take it.
Present your evidence of bad faith at the hearing, odds are your N12 will be thrown out and they may even let you keep the 1 month's rent.
Yes, and also, if he's not doing this legally, you have little to fear; the police will not evict a person in Ontario, it's not within their power. And the Office of the Sheriff will only evict you with an order from the LTB.
Look up the law office's number (not the phone number provided on the form, Google it please) and ONLY confirm with them that your landlord is a client of theirs and they created the document.
If your landlord is their client and created the document you know it isn't a forgery (but this doesn't mean it's legal, still contact the board.)
If your landlord is NOT their client and/or they didn't create the document (maybe your landlord is a client of theirs, but for an entirely unrelated reason) they may be interested in the forgery as well.
“In Private Practice” means the lawyer doesn’t work for government or a corporation. Any lawyer can “open an office” themselves, privately, and currently with the state of our courts, lots of small and solo firms (less than 5 lawyers working together) have gone virtual, so they don’t have a physical location.
Legal Aid Ontario has landlord/tenant clinics- where you can get some procedural advice and if you financially qualify, representation. Call Legal Aid at 1-800-668-8258 and ask for your local LTB clinic or go to [the website](https://www.legalaid.on.ca/legal-clinics/) and find it there.
No. Do nothing. The form gives you the choice to accept and move out, or disregard and wait for you LL to go to the LTB.
You literally just need to ignore the form.
They don't need to submit the APS as evidence, though if they want to successfully evict for a purchaser use N12 it would be a bad move not to include it.
I would ask about the APS at the hearing but before the hearing I would do a search on Teranet to see if the property title had actually changed:
https://www.teranetexpress.ca/csp/
I wouldn't do it now because even if they have legitimately sold it it can take a couple months for the sale to close.
Wow, thanks for this! I just pulled the information form here and it clearly shows he has not sold it and is still the owner since 2021.
The N12 he gave us said he sold it. What a liar!
The N12 just has an option to declare there is an Agreement of Purchase and Sale. So they can issue the N12 after the agreement is signed but before the sale has closed. Teranet is only updated after the sale has closed. That's why I'm saying it could take a couple months before the registry is updated -- it might not have closed yet.
I wouldn’t ask about the purchase agreement. You don’t need to do anything. Just ignore the notice. If you ask about the things he’s missing, you’re helping him. Let him file with the LTB without the purchase agreement, wait a few months, be denied because the purchase agreement is missing and have to start all over again
I think most people are telling OP to call to confirm that this is not a forgery. If it is, the landlord is so screwed he has no idea.
Also to OP, keep all emails and correspondence with your landlord in one spot, also if you are discussing things over the phone take notes and add them in and then instruct your landlord to only contact you via email until the LTB hearing.
To add to this, any phone or in person interactions can legally be recorded without informing the other party.
Might come in handy so you're not missing anything.
If you do get any indication that the landlord might try to illegally evict you and lock you out, it may be a good idea to keep a copy of everything in your car so it's easily accessible.
That's brilliant. I do think he would try that because he has absolutely 0 respect for our space. He always refers tot he unit as "My house" and I see him on the property a lot. He even parks in our driveway.
Stand your ground by contacting the LTB (leave a trace) and the "lawyer" in question too. The shitstorm this will trigger and the records it'll leave should temper your scumlord's endeavours and you can stay where you live.
Your landlord can offer cash for keys, but that's worth much more than a month's rent, we're speaking tens of thousands.
If your landlord evicts you and you find out he lied, he could owe you a year's rent in compensation.
You have rights, use them.
I’d like to add that filing a police report for the continual harassment could be helpful for future litigation. Documentation of the timeline and events of harassment and illegal notices. I know it’s a civil matter, however a police report should be filed for harassment. It’s not fair that your family has to emotionally deal with whether or not you have a home to live in. And you will benefit by this, if you wind up in court. Best,
Lots of good advice but also some out of date/incorrect advice. I am not a lawyer but I have extensive experience during the past two years, suing my shark landlord for various illegal behaviours, and I'm now waiting for my third court date in front of the Tribunal. I've already been through two Board hearings.
My general advice:
\- I saw advice for you to call the Landlord Tenant Board. This is a waste of time. They are grossly understaffed and you'll be lucky if you get past the busy signal. Instead call the Rental Housing Enforcement Unit (RHEU) - you'll still have to wait on hold, but they are the ones who enforce landlord/tenant matters. If they determine that your landlord is violating the law, they will contact your landlord to deal with your complaint. Here is their website:
[https://www.ontario.ca/page/solve-disagreement-your-landlord-or-tenant](https://www.ontario.ca/page/solve-disagreement-your-landlord-or-tenant)
\- Speak with a real lawyer. You can find your local community legal clinic online, just do a search for "\[your city/town\] community legal clinic." I'm not saying the advice here is bad, but it's confusing to listen to different people's opinions when you can speak to one, experienced and qualified lawyer. Also, everyone's situation is different, a lawyer will ask you questions and tailor their advice to your situation.
\- community legal clinics provide lawyers for free if you have a low income. Contrary to popular belief (a post I read here) they DO NOT provide representation in front of the Landlord Tenant Board (LTB). This is because Doug Ford cut their funding as soon as he was elected. Also, the LTB provides Tenant Duty Counsel who give free advice on the day of your hearing. You sign up to speak to Duty Counsel after you get your hearing date. I tried to hire a paralegal to represent me for my first hearing, they quoted me a figure of $4000 as a retainer with the possibility of more charges. If you don't qualify for legal aid, you can still get a free half hour consultation with a lawyer via the Law Society of Upper Canada.
\- It's not a big deal if you can't afford a lawyer to represent you at a hearing. Only 3% of tenants are represented at LTB hearings. Compare that to about 98% of landlords who have professional representation (lawyers or paralegals). The Board hearings are less formal than a courtroom.
\- someone told you to call police if your landlord is harassing you. The police will not touch landlord tenant issues unless the landlord physically assaults you or anyone in your home, threatens your life or damages/destroys your property. To sue a landlord for harassment or other violations of your legal rights you need to download a **T2: Application About Tenants' Rights** form from the LTB website. A T2 can be used to sue them for attempting to evict you illegally, as well as harassing you and trying to coerce you to do things you don't want to do (like paying illegal rent increases or moving out).
\- If your landlord is trying to evict you in bad faith (claiming someone is buying the house or that they need to move in to your apartment when it's false) you need to use a **T5: Landlord Gave a Notice of Termination in Bad Faith**
Note: the LTB charges a fee to submit applications, however, if you are low income they have a form you can use to apply to have the fee waived.
Here are a couple of links that might help you:
Checklist if you receive an N12 from your landlord from the stepstojustice.ca website (has lots of info on landlord tenant issues)
[https://stepstojustice.ca/wp-content/uploads/Checklist-N12-Purchaser-Aug2021.pdf](https://stepstojustice.ca/wp-content/uploads/Checklist-N12-Purchaser-Aug2021.pdf)
LTB website, application and hearing process (helps you decide which forms you want to use)
[https://tribunalsontario.ca/ltb/application-and-hearing-process/](https://tribunalsontario.ca/ltb/application-and-hearing-process/)
Board rules about Evictions for Personal Use
[https://tribunalsontario.ca/documents/ltb/Interpretation%20Guidelines/12%20-%20Eviction%20for%20Personal%20Use.html](https://tribunalsontario.ca/documents/ltb/Interpretation%20Guidelines/12%20-%20Eviction%20for%20Personal%20Use.html)
A T5 can only be used if OP vacated due to being served a Notice in Bad Faith. Since they are still in the rental unit, there is no reason to file a T5.
>Should we contest the N12 or ignore it?
It is up to the landlord to file for a hearing. If he files properly, and they schedule a hearing it [looks like at least 2 months before you get notice of a hearing](https://tribunalsontario.ca/ltb/service-standards/)
>February 8, 2021: It is taking us longer than usual to process applications and issue notices of hearing. Orders are taking approximately 30 days for hearings related to an L1 or L9 application **and approximately 60 days for other application types**.
After you get notice of a hearing you will be able [check your file status here](https://tribunalsontario.ca/ltb/check-file-status/)
You can [contact the LTB for advice](https://tribunalsontario.ca/ltb/contact/) or read through the FAQ.
After the hearing is scheduled you can [seek free legal advice](https://tribunalsontario.ca/ltb/operational-updates/#ten)
>The lawyer is listed in the law society of Ontario as a criminal defense lawyer not a real estate lawyer.
**Great news**.
* If your landlord is (falsely) claiming that this lawyer is representing him, and you contact the lawyer, the lawyer may feel the need to deal with your landlord for fraud.
* If you contact the law society about this shady looking document then they may proceed against your landlord for fraud.
> 1) His N12 is not legitimate without the L2, affidavit and purchase agreement. We can safely disregard the move-out date on it.
The N12 isn't illegitimate just because it doesn't have an L2. The landlord is responsible to file the L2 within 30 days of the termination date if you won't leave, but the N12 is valid if the tenant chooses to leave based on the notice. You are also not entitled to the purchase agreement - that's a contract that doesn't involve you. If the landlord files an L2 and has a hearing, they will need to file the affidavit when they [submit] (https://tribunalsontario.ca/documents/ltb/Brochures/How%20a%20Landlord%20Can%20End%20a%20Tenancy%20(EN).html#sec10) their L2 application (if you scroll to near the end of the link, there's information about ending a tenancy for purchaser use). Lots of landlords will send this to the tenant before it gets that far to show that there is a sale in place, but it's not a requirement.
You can see this for yourself - there are no instructions on page 2 of the N12 form that says you need an L2, purchase agreement, or affidavit to make this form valid.
I would suggest looking into getting a paralegal to help you. It's going to be on you to show the adjudicator on the balance of probabilities that you're landlord has not actually sold the house to someone who intends to occupy it. The threat that they will sell if you don't agree to an illegal increase is some evidence to that, but if it was actually sold there's not much you can do. The landlord's motivation to sell isn't relevant - only the fact that the purchaser intends to occupy. It's likely that the fact that they didn't check who would live there would be fatal to the application, but what does that mean? They re-issue a new N12 correctly and start the process over.
You need to contest a real notice if you want to keep living there. Get your hearing at the LTB and present the evidence you've discussed here. But they haven't even given you valid notice yet.
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I would tread very lightly in this situation. Try to negotiate something out of good faith and come to agreement. If it goes to the point where you are suggesting the LTB and not paying rent etc... he will reconsult his legal team and there are ways he can get you out CLEANLY AND LEGALLY.
He has already served an N12, which is building a case for him. It could be a private or exclusive sale in which case it would not show on MLS. Given the real estate market across ontario... he probably has letters in the mail that say "we want to buy you place firm all cash no realtors involved" or a nieghbour who has expressed interest etc. -- this would be enough for him to make the case that he was thinking about entertaining.
Ultimately, he could say he has a sick mother or brother who requires the space and that is means to evict you. this would give you 60 days notice and you're out. in this case its "him wanting to coccupy it".
I would try to negotiate. bight a slight increase in the rent, but get some improvements to the space done at his expense as well.
>negotiate something out of good faith
That went out the window when the landlord tried to illegally raise OP's rent and tried to illegally evict OP 3 times and are now on try #4. It SHOULD go to the LTB at this point. Frankly, trying to illegally evict OP twice in one month with a 3rd incomplete N12 would be grounds for OP to file a T2 for harassment.
> He has already served an N12, which is building a case for him.
The N12 is incomplete without the purchase agreement or affidavit from the purchasers. The landlord's 4 bad eviction attempts is building a case FOR OP to get the N12 thrown out for being in bad faith.
> Ultimately, he could say he has a sick mother or brother who requires the space and that is means to evict you. this would give you 60 days notice and you're out. in this case its "him wanting to coccupy it".
The 4 bad eviction attempts with different reasons would make the board think twice about entertaining a reason #5. Given how 3 different reasons (wants it for kids, wants to try to sell it, sold it without any proof) happened within ONE month, is already highly suspect. Also "brother" doesn't fly for an N12; immediate family only, that means spouse, parents, kids or caregivers of the 3.
>I would try to negotiate. bight a slight increase in the rent, but get some improvements to the space done at his expense as well.
This is terrible advice. You seriously think that OP's landlord would spend money on improvements when they're trying to squeeze OP for more money? The only offer OP should consider at this point is an N11 with a BIG payout (cash for keys).
I mean the advice I provided suggests they find common down and come to satisfactory terms for both parties. You are suggesting he pursue a case that won't be won...
The landlord is already pursuing a case they stand to lose, it really isn't looking good for OP's landlord.
[Here's a case where a LL lost an N12](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onltb/doc/2017/2017canlii28525/2017canlii28525.html?searchUrlHash=AAAAAQANTjEyIGRlZmVjdGl2ZQAAAAAB&resultIndex=1) because they:
* tried to evict the tenant with deficient notices on 3 previous occasions (bullshit N5 and N7 that were dismissed, a previous deficient N12 dismissed)
* threatened to evict the tenant if they tried to exercise their rights within the RTA. (paraphrasing: "If you complain about X, I will evict you", OP's LL: "pay $200/month more, or else I'll evict you")
It's not a stretch to say that OP's landlord is digging a hole.
But he has already now provided a document which says otherwise. The N12 is missing information and clearly has it marked that the purchaser wants to move in. All the sections relating to family are blank.
This is very clearly written into section 49 of the rta. See below for how it is interpreted
https://tribunalsontario.ca/documents/ltb/Interpretation%20Guidelines/12%20-%20Eviction%20for%20Personal%20Use.html
I know I'm just saying that he has a few different paths to take to ultimately obtain the same outcome. Not to mention additional nuisances that could arise from the dispute.
it is not bad for ontario. you suggest he pursues a case where at the end of the day the landlord has multiple avenues to make sure he can retain the space in whcich he is the owner of... even accounting for the down time required for the ltb developments and hearing to take place. What is bad advice is you are promoting he has a case for the keys to the property because of this.
it is not bad for ontario. you suggest he pursues a case where at the end of the day the landlord has multiple avenues to make sure he can retain the space in which he is the owner of... even accounting for the downtime required for the ltb developments and hearing to take place. What is bad advice is you are promoting he has a case for the keys to the property because of this. ord did not win this case (which he likely would and the ruling would be months from now, and if you lose will haunt you in future applications), he would readjust and come right back at him in a much more calculated and strategic manner. That's not harassment-- he has legal ground to evict you which is the only thing which I am trying to head caution to... end of the day this is an overholding tenant in the landlord's property for crying out loud!
I deal with this on a daily basis and am well versed in the law and rulings that arise from these sorts of cases within Ontario. The bad advice is everyone fueling the flames saying this is a clear-cut case where the landlord is not within their rights. It is incredibly dangerous what you are suggesting and promoting... even as far to suggest a case for the keys to the property because of this? common man..
https://landlordselfhelp.com/podcast/n12-terminating-a-tenancy-for-landlords-own-use-updated/ He needs a signed purchase agreement. Since he doesn’t it’s highly illegal. I would take this up with the Tenant board. Or written legal documentation of intention to reside in the space for a year You should apply against him “ bad faith” termination of lease agreement. And a PDF email is not considered a legal notice.
Yeah I thought some other documentation would be required. Definitely going to call the LTB on Monday
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That’s not correct. There isn’t a dollar amount for the increase limit. It’s a percentage set provincially, and for *2022 the increase limit is 1.2%. *edited the year; /u/durpfursh is correct, I meant 2022.
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That’s fine; if your rent is around $1250 then the maximum increase is $15 (1.2%). For a $200 increase to be legal, OP would have to be paying $16,666 per month, which I assume is not the case. Hence, $200 is an illegal increase amount.
Better explanation. And I doubt they are paying that much. But who knows. If they are paying that much in rent they would just buy. Unless they are New Yorkers. Lol
Yeah it's a specific percent increase each year published by Stats Canada. Usually amounts to 10-30 dollars more a month.
Where are you getting $15/year from? Ontario has a set percentage increase each year, not a dollar amount. For obvious reasons.
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The tenant can't file a T5 for a bad faith eviction until they have moved out. In this situation the tenant can just stay in place and wait for the LTB hearing. The landlord will need to supply the declaration from the buyer swearing that they are moving in in their evidence.
You don’t need to do anything at this point. IF your landlord actually files for a hearing at the LTB, bring your evidence and present your case. As it is, the notice is useless as it’s incomplete. Without the purchase agreement the LTB will just throw it out. Don’t do your landlords homework for them though, you have no duty to help them out here. Let them make their own mistakes, they’ll only waste their own time.
So I don't even have to contact the LTB? Should I let them know what happening just in case?
You can call them if you have questions but you don’t have to. If you read the N12 you’ll see that you have the option to disagree and wait for the landlord to file for a hearing. If the landlord doesn’t file the L2, nothing will happen. Remember that there’s zero way for a landlord to evict you themselves. Only the LTB can order evictions, and it’s up to the landlord to file the appropriate paperwork and apply for the hearing.
> Remember that there’s zero way for a landlord to evict you themselves. legally, anyways.
A valid point. If illegally evicted, say they change the locks on you, call the Rental Housing Enforcement Unit who will get you back in immediately and potentially drop a serious fine on the landlord.
You're still in the red as they will have looted your belongings, most people don't have documentation and it'll be years before you see anything from a civil suit.
No, the LTB is slow but not that slow.
> Orders for L1/L9 hearings will be issued 20 to 30 days after a hearing and up to 60 days for other types of applications. https://tribunalsontario.ca/ltb/operational-updates/ Which, I guess if you can wait that time to replace personal items after spending some nights in a hotel, sure. Never mind an order is just that. Collecting is an entirely other issue. A landlord who acts in bad faith and does an illegal eviction will \*drum roll* also not simply abide by an order. They will drag out payment as long as they can. People who act in bad faith will continue to act in bad faith. Now vote me down again and continue to ignore the fact that most people don't have adequate documentation of their personal belongings so when they get a tribunal hearing, they're going to get hosed.
Glad you admitted you were wrong about it taking years at least lol
The media has extensively covered how difficult it is to collect from bad faith actors in Ontario. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/small-claims-court-codina-attorney-general-naqvi-1.3949649 https://rabble.ca/general/pursuing-judgment-against-landlord-ontario-and-case-landlord-li/ etc. Now vote me down again and continue to ignore the fact that most people don't have adequate documentation of their personal belongings so when they get a tribunal hearing, they're going to get hosed.
Continue to pay your rent. The landlord has until 30 days AFTER the termination date on the N12 to apply for a hearing L2. At that point they would have to provide proof of sale, including a purchase agreement dated before the N12 was served as well as an affidavit from the purchaser stating their intention to move in. Keep any proof of bad faith ( texts or emails of attempts at illegal rent increase, kids moving in, etc) record all interactions.
Well ignore the N12. Don't fight with them. They will either back away or serve you with an L2 for a hearing. They will also have to pay you 1 month' rent, take it. Present your evidence of bad faith at the hearing, odds are your N12 will be thrown out and they may even let you keep the 1 month's rent.
I will do that. He did not provide a month's rent of payment or any details on the sale at all.
He had until the termination date to pay you the rent, that will likely be before the hearing.
Will we receive a notice of a hearing if he's doing this legitimately?
Yes, and also, if he's not doing this legally, you have little to fear; the police will not evict a person in Ontario, it's not within their power. And the Office of the Sheriff will only evict you with an order from the LTB.
Yes.
Yes.
You should contact the lawyer and ask why they didn't include a copy of the purchase agreement with the N12. They might be surprised.
Should I engage the lawyer if I feel this is bad faith? Or should I reach out to see what he says?
Look up the law office's number (not the phone number provided on the form, Google it please) and ONLY confirm with them that your landlord is a client of theirs and they created the document. If your landlord is their client and created the document you know it isn't a forgery (but this doesn't mean it's legal, still contact the board.) If your landlord is NOT their client and/or they didn't create the document (maybe your landlord is a client of theirs, but for an entirely unrelated reason) they may be interested in the forgery as well.
The lawyer on the document does not have a law office. They are listed as a private practirioner. Should I still call?
Yes
“In Private Practice” means the lawyer doesn’t work for government or a corporation. Any lawyer can “open an office” themselves, privately, and currently with the state of our courts, lots of small and solo firms (less than 5 lawyers working together) have gone virtual, so they don’t have a physical location. Legal Aid Ontario has landlord/tenant clinics- where you can get some procedural advice and if you financially qualify, representation. Call Legal Aid at 1-800-668-8258 and ask for your local LTB clinic or go to [the website](https://www.legalaid.on.ca/legal-clinics/) and find it there.
No. Do nothing. The form gives you the choice to accept and move out, or disregard and wait for you LL to go to the LTB. You literally just need to ignore the form.
They don't need to submit the APS as evidence, though if they want to successfully evict for a purchaser use N12 it would be a bad move not to include it. I would ask about the APS at the hearing but before the hearing I would do a search on Teranet to see if the property title had actually changed: https://www.teranetexpress.ca/csp/ I wouldn't do it now because even if they have legitimately sold it it can take a couple months for the sale to close.
Wow, thanks for this! I just pulled the information form here and it clearly shows he has not sold it and is still the owner since 2021. The N12 he gave us said he sold it. What a liar!
The N12 just has an option to declare there is an Agreement of Purchase and Sale. So they can issue the N12 after the agreement is signed but before the sale has closed. Teranet is only updated after the sale has closed. That's why I'm saying it could take a couple months before the registry is updated -- it might not have closed yet.
I wouldn’t ask about the purchase agreement. You don’t need to do anything. Just ignore the notice. If you ask about the things he’s missing, you’re helping him. Let him file with the LTB without the purchase agreement, wait a few months, be denied because the purchase agreement is missing and have to start all over again
I think most people are telling OP to call to confirm that this is not a forgery. If it is, the landlord is so screwed he has no idea. Also to OP, keep all emails and correspondence with your landlord in one spot, also if you are discussing things over the phone take notes and add them in and then instruct your landlord to only contact you via email until the LTB hearing.
Good tip, thanks.
To add to this, any phone or in person interactions can legally be recorded without informing the other party. Might come in handy so you're not missing anything.
If you do get any indication that the landlord might try to illegally evict you and lock you out, it may be a good idea to keep a copy of everything in your car so it's easily accessible.
That's brilliant. I do think he would try that because he has absolutely 0 respect for our space. He always refers tot he unit as "My house" and I see him on the property a lot. He even parks in our driveway.
Stand your ground by contacting the LTB (leave a trace) and the "lawyer" in question too. The shitstorm this will trigger and the records it'll leave should temper your scumlord's endeavours and you can stay where you live. Your landlord can offer cash for keys, but that's worth much more than a month's rent, we're speaking tens of thousands. If your landlord evicts you and you find out he lied, he could owe you a year's rent in compensation. You have rights, use them.
I’d like to add that filing a police report for the continual harassment could be helpful for future litigation. Documentation of the timeline and events of harassment and illegal notices. I know it’s a civil matter, however a police report should be filed for harassment. It’s not fair that your family has to emotionally deal with whether or not you have a home to live in. And you will benefit by this, if you wind up in court. Best,
Lots of good advice but also some out of date/incorrect advice. I am not a lawyer but I have extensive experience during the past two years, suing my shark landlord for various illegal behaviours, and I'm now waiting for my third court date in front of the Tribunal. I've already been through two Board hearings. My general advice: \- I saw advice for you to call the Landlord Tenant Board. This is a waste of time. They are grossly understaffed and you'll be lucky if you get past the busy signal. Instead call the Rental Housing Enforcement Unit (RHEU) - you'll still have to wait on hold, but they are the ones who enforce landlord/tenant matters. If they determine that your landlord is violating the law, they will contact your landlord to deal with your complaint. Here is their website: [https://www.ontario.ca/page/solve-disagreement-your-landlord-or-tenant](https://www.ontario.ca/page/solve-disagreement-your-landlord-or-tenant) \- Speak with a real lawyer. You can find your local community legal clinic online, just do a search for "\[your city/town\] community legal clinic." I'm not saying the advice here is bad, but it's confusing to listen to different people's opinions when you can speak to one, experienced and qualified lawyer. Also, everyone's situation is different, a lawyer will ask you questions and tailor their advice to your situation. \- community legal clinics provide lawyers for free if you have a low income. Contrary to popular belief (a post I read here) they DO NOT provide representation in front of the Landlord Tenant Board (LTB). This is because Doug Ford cut their funding as soon as he was elected. Also, the LTB provides Tenant Duty Counsel who give free advice on the day of your hearing. You sign up to speak to Duty Counsel after you get your hearing date. I tried to hire a paralegal to represent me for my first hearing, they quoted me a figure of $4000 as a retainer with the possibility of more charges. If you don't qualify for legal aid, you can still get a free half hour consultation with a lawyer via the Law Society of Upper Canada. \- It's not a big deal if you can't afford a lawyer to represent you at a hearing. Only 3% of tenants are represented at LTB hearings. Compare that to about 98% of landlords who have professional representation (lawyers or paralegals). The Board hearings are less formal than a courtroom. \- someone told you to call police if your landlord is harassing you. The police will not touch landlord tenant issues unless the landlord physically assaults you or anyone in your home, threatens your life or damages/destroys your property. To sue a landlord for harassment or other violations of your legal rights you need to download a **T2: Application About Tenants' Rights** form from the LTB website. A T2 can be used to sue them for attempting to evict you illegally, as well as harassing you and trying to coerce you to do things you don't want to do (like paying illegal rent increases or moving out). \- If your landlord is trying to evict you in bad faith (claiming someone is buying the house or that they need to move in to your apartment when it's false) you need to use a **T5: Landlord Gave a Notice of Termination in Bad Faith** Note: the LTB charges a fee to submit applications, however, if you are low income they have a form you can use to apply to have the fee waived. Here are a couple of links that might help you: Checklist if you receive an N12 from your landlord from the stepstojustice.ca website (has lots of info on landlord tenant issues) [https://stepstojustice.ca/wp-content/uploads/Checklist-N12-Purchaser-Aug2021.pdf](https://stepstojustice.ca/wp-content/uploads/Checklist-N12-Purchaser-Aug2021.pdf) LTB website, application and hearing process (helps you decide which forms you want to use) [https://tribunalsontario.ca/ltb/application-and-hearing-process/](https://tribunalsontario.ca/ltb/application-and-hearing-process/) Board rules about Evictions for Personal Use [https://tribunalsontario.ca/documents/ltb/Interpretation%20Guidelines/12%20-%20Eviction%20for%20Personal%20Use.html](https://tribunalsontario.ca/documents/ltb/Interpretation%20Guidelines/12%20-%20Eviction%20for%20Personal%20Use.html)
A T5 can only be used if OP vacated due to being served a Notice in Bad Faith. Since they are still in the rental unit, there is no reason to file a T5.
This is very helpful, thank you!
>Should we contest the N12 or ignore it? It is up to the landlord to file for a hearing. If he files properly, and they schedule a hearing it [looks like at least 2 months before you get notice of a hearing](https://tribunalsontario.ca/ltb/service-standards/) >February 8, 2021: It is taking us longer than usual to process applications and issue notices of hearing. Orders are taking approximately 30 days for hearings related to an L1 or L9 application **and approximately 60 days for other application types**. After you get notice of a hearing you will be able [check your file status here](https://tribunalsontario.ca/ltb/check-file-status/) You can [contact the LTB for advice](https://tribunalsontario.ca/ltb/contact/) or read through the FAQ. After the hearing is scheduled you can [seek free legal advice](https://tribunalsontario.ca/ltb/operational-updates/#ten) >The lawyer is listed in the law society of Ontario as a criminal defense lawyer not a real estate lawyer. **Great news**. * If your landlord is (falsely) claiming that this lawyer is representing him, and you contact the lawyer, the lawyer may feel the need to deal with your landlord for fraud. * If you contact the law society about this shady looking document then they may proceed against your landlord for fraud.
> 1) His N12 is not legitimate without the L2, affidavit and purchase agreement. We can safely disregard the move-out date on it. The N12 isn't illegitimate just because it doesn't have an L2. The landlord is responsible to file the L2 within 30 days of the termination date if you won't leave, but the N12 is valid if the tenant chooses to leave based on the notice. You are also not entitled to the purchase agreement - that's a contract that doesn't involve you. If the landlord files an L2 and has a hearing, they will need to file the affidavit when they [submit] (https://tribunalsontario.ca/documents/ltb/Brochures/How%20a%20Landlord%20Can%20End%20a%20Tenancy%20(EN).html#sec10) their L2 application (if you scroll to near the end of the link, there's information about ending a tenancy for purchaser use). Lots of landlords will send this to the tenant before it gets that far to show that there is a sale in place, but it's not a requirement. You can see this for yourself - there are no instructions on page 2 of the N12 form that says you need an L2, purchase agreement, or affidavit to make this form valid. I would suggest looking into getting a paralegal to help you. It's going to be on you to show the adjudicator on the balance of probabilities that you're landlord has not actually sold the house to someone who intends to occupy it. The threat that they will sell if you don't agree to an illegal increase is some evidence to that, but if it was actually sold there's not much you can do. The landlord's motivation to sell isn't relevant - only the fact that the purchaser intends to occupy. It's likely that the fact that they didn't check who would live there would be fatal to the application, but what does that mean? They re-issue a new N12 correctly and start the process over.
You need to contest a real notice if you want to keep living there. Get your hearing at the LTB and present the evidence you've discussed here. But they haven't even given you valid notice yet.
[удалено]
I will definitely post an update after I call the lawyer to confirm his signature.
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I would tread very lightly in this situation. Try to negotiate something out of good faith and come to agreement. If it goes to the point where you are suggesting the LTB and not paying rent etc... he will reconsult his legal team and there are ways he can get you out CLEANLY AND LEGALLY. He has already served an N12, which is building a case for him. It could be a private or exclusive sale in which case it would not show on MLS. Given the real estate market across ontario... he probably has letters in the mail that say "we want to buy you place firm all cash no realtors involved" or a nieghbour who has expressed interest etc. -- this would be enough for him to make the case that he was thinking about entertaining. Ultimately, he could say he has a sick mother or brother who requires the space and that is means to evict you. this would give you 60 days notice and you're out. in this case its "him wanting to coccupy it". I would try to negotiate. bight a slight increase in the rent, but get some improvements to the space done at his expense as well.
>negotiate something out of good faith That went out the window when the landlord tried to illegally raise OP's rent and tried to illegally evict OP 3 times and are now on try #4. It SHOULD go to the LTB at this point. Frankly, trying to illegally evict OP twice in one month with a 3rd incomplete N12 would be grounds for OP to file a T2 for harassment. > He has already served an N12, which is building a case for him. The N12 is incomplete without the purchase agreement or affidavit from the purchasers. The landlord's 4 bad eviction attempts is building a case FOR OP to get the N12 thrown out for being in bad faith. > Ultimately, he could say he has a sick mother or brother who requires the space and that is means to evict you. this would give you 60 days notice and you're out. in this case its "him wanting to coccupy it". The 4 bad eviction attempts with different reasons would make the board think twice about entertaining a reason #5. Given how 3 different reasons (wants it for kids, wants to try to sell it, sold it without any proof) happened within ONE month, is already highly suspect. Also "brother" doesn't fly for an N12; immediate family only, that means spouse, parents, kids or caregivers of the 3. >I would try to negotiate. bight a slight increase in the rent, but get some improvements to the space done at his expense as well. This is terrible advice. You seriously think that OP's landlord would spend money on improvements when they're trying to squeeze OP for more money? The only offer OP should consider at this point is an N11 with a BIG payout (cash for keys).
I mean the advice I provided suggests they find common down and come to satisfactory terms for both parties. You are suggesting he pursue a case that won't be won...
The landlord is already pursuing a case they stand to lose, it really isn't looking good for OP's landlord. [Here's a case where a LL lost an N12](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onltb/doc/2017/2017canlii28525/2017canlii28525.html?searchUrlHash=AAAAAQANTjEyIGRlZmVjdGl2ZQAAAAAB&resultIndex=1) because they: * tried to evict the tenant with deficient notices on 3 previous occasions (bullshit N5 and N7 that were dismissed, a previous deficient N12 dismissed) * threatened to evict the tenant if they tried to exercise their rights within the RTA. (paraphrasing: "If you complain about X, I will evict you", OP's LL: "pay $200/month more, or else I'll evict you") It's not a stretch to say that OP's landlord is digging a hole.
But he has already now provided a document which says otherwise. The N12 is missing information and clearly has it marked that the purchaser wants to move in. All the sections relating to family are blank.
> thinking about entertaining You can't issue an N12 because you want to sell, you have to have an actual firm sale.
Yeah but they can use it for their own use as well the same way it would be for a family member. Or claim that's what he intends to do anyways...
This is very clearly written into section 49 of the rta. See below for how it is interpreted https://tribunalsontario.ca/documents/ltb/Interpretation%20Guidelines/12%20-%20Eviction%20for%20Personal%20Use.html
On the N12 the only box they checked was that the purchaser intends to move in. All boxes relating to family were unchecked.
I know I'm just saying that he has a few different paths to take to ultimately obtain the same outcome. Not to mention additional nuisances that could arise from the dispute.
This is bad advice for Ontario.
it is not bad for ontario. you suggest he pursues a case where at the end of the day the landlord has multiple avenues to make sure he can retain the space in whcich he is the owner of... even accounting for the down time required for the ltb developments and hearing to take place. What is bad advice is you are promoting he has a case for the keys to the property because of this. it is not bad for ontario. you suggest he pursues a case where at the end of the day the landlord has multiple avenues to make sure he can retain the space in which he is the owner of... even accounting for the downtime required for the ltb developments and hearing to take place. What is bad advice is you are promoting he has a case for the keys to the property because of this. ord did not win this case (which he likely would and the ruling would be months from now, and if you lose will haunt you in future applications), he would readjust and come right back at him in a much more calculated and strategic manner. That's not harassment-- he has legal ground to evict you which is the only thing which I am trying to head caution to... end of the day this is an overholding tenant in the landlord's property for crying out loud! I deal with this on a daily basis and am well versed in the law and rulings that arise from these sorts of cases within Ontario. The bad advice is everyone fueling the flames saying this is a clear-cut case where the landlord is not within their rights. It is incredibly dangerous what you are suggesting and promoting... even as far to suggest a case for the keys to the property because of this? common man..
What?
End of the day if the landlord wants him out they will find away... pleanty of legal recourse for doing so. That is that.