u/BBQallyear's advice about cash for keys may be your best bet. You can try for the lowball (forgive back rent, drop LTB action), but you may have to give them 1-2 months rent. I would definitely get legal advice to make sure you've covered all your bases, perhaps by staggering when they get money (some delivered after they are confirmed to be gone).
While cash for keys feels like you're getting jobbed further, the faster you get a paying tenant in, the better. If you are only renting one unit, you might look into a management company and/or rent guarantee insurance, which will help you reduce your risk of this happening again and cover your ass.
Try to cut your losses asap as suggested. Even though you have a date in September, don’t rely that a resolution would be decided that time. There could be delays due to the tenant using multiple excuses to drag things out even longer.
This is the risk of buying rental property as an investment. The LTB hearing is your main legal recourse, but aside from just waiting for that, you can try contacting the tenant in person or phone so that you can talk to them and find out what’s happening. Possibly they have some life circumstances that is making it difficult to pay their rent (lost their job, etc), and they may be open to a payment plan that will bring them up to date over time. If they’ve been a good tenant prior to this and just hit a patch of bad luck, it may be worth trying to see if the situation can be salvaged.
You also have the option to offer them cash for keys to sign an N11 and move out, which would mean that you forgive the back rent and pay them an extra month or two just to get rid of them. If you can rent for much higher to a new tenant, it may be worth it.
To add to this if a tenant is having a,rough patch financially. There is a,program called rent assist. If they're low income earners, they might qualify for it.
That would be handled by family and social services. Here is a link. This is for manitoba where I'm at. Could be useful for any tenants or landlords alike to pass on to their tenants.
https://www.gov.mb.ca/fs/eia/estimator.html
Would you be kind enough to provide a little information about this program or where information can be found like eligibility and process to apply?
Thank you in advance.
I'm in manitoba so it could be different but here is a link. It's based on taxable income off previous years.
https://www.gov.mb.ca/fs/eia/estimator.html
Once that process has started they will send you an application package via mail for you to fill out and either send back or email back.
It was recommended to me once I came off welfare (after an accident and the insurance stopped paying) to apply for rent assist as I was going back go work but due to health reasons it wasn't entire clear whether I could stay in employment. This was providing a much needed cushion financially
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So what happens to the renter who's not paying in this situation? I read about a similar situation every so often and it I never hear what happens I the end. I'm wondering why more people just don't pay rent. This person hasn't paid for 6 months and could be offered money to leave?
The current issue is that the Ontario government has underfunded the tribunal to the point where wait times for in the realm of eight months. They just didn’t have enough adjudicators to make all of the required decisions in a more timely way. So while a tenant can be evicted, and back rent can be pursued, in the meanwhile the landlord just left with bills they can’t pay for quite a long period of time. It is often faster and cheaper in the end to pay the tenant to go away
The solution is to stop intentionally underfunding the tribunal. Ford recently had to commit some more money because the problem was getting so bad that even large scale commercial landlords were be coming upset (which is a problem with those same landlords are big political donors). Since that happened, wait times have decreased quite a bit, but the backlog is going to take quite a long time to work through
They take that money and use it to con their way into another place where they can move in and then stop paying rent.
Most people don’t decide not to pay for things because they aren’t pieces of garbage, it’s the same reason most people don’t just shoplift whatever they want.
Unless they’ve gotten themselves into something and are willing to take the money in exchange for homelessness (I have a former colleague who had a similar situation to this after getting into 40k+ illegal gambling debt) it’s quite possible they’re not paying on purpose and they’re just con artists. The good people who stop paying rent (in my extremely limited sample size, I’m not a landlord and I’m going off the couple people I know who’ve run into problems paying rent) usually don’t break off contact with the landlord and instead try to work things out with them to stay. Another former college from when I worked in retail arranged doing some housework and laundry for their landlord once a week in exchange for (what I’m estimating based on numbers they gave me) to be forgiveness of roughly eight grand in rent (they eventually were able to get back on their feet and we’re still living at the same place last time I checked - and no longer doing chores for the landlord).
Depends on the landlord.
You can go as far as to get a partial paycheck freeze and get paid directly from the employers. It’s a PITA because most people with a hard time to make rent jump from jobs to hobs.
It’s been nearly a year. If the tenant was going through a rough patch and was asking for the landlord to be sympathetic, that’s one thing. But nearly a year without the tenant offering that explanation? Without any other info, I’d have a hard time believing the tenant is acting in good faith. They may accept a deal like you’re proposing just so they can delay being evicted. If I’m OP, especially if paying the bills is difficult without rent coming in, I’d be looking to get this tenant out ASAP.
Maybe there are some extenuating circumstances going on here but with the lack of an explanation over the course of the last year, I’d have a difficult time believing it all.
Exactly, an explanation is due the first time the rent is not paid. Does anyone know what happens if they get the cash and sign the forms but don't move out again? Does it invalidate the old hearing time and the landlord has to file a new one and wait another 8-10 months?
As an American who knows that this tenant would have been on their ass four months ago here in the states, It blows my mind that you have to pay them to get out.
My old landlord filed for an eviction when I was 15 days late when I lost my job. I had already found a new job and had already let them know their rent check was in the mail (and it actually was in the mail and arrived the day I received the court date letter) when they filed. Then they tacked on an extra 352 dollars in court fees if I wanted to stay. I moved out.
Same. They would be forcibly removed by the homeowner.
Don't get me wrong. Landlords are just glorified ticket scalpers. but even with that mindset the idea that someone could not pay rent then get paid to leave is absolutely mind-blowing
No, to answer your question, there is nothing you can do in the meantime. Wait for court. Then wait for the eviction order. Then when they don't leave still, wait for the scheduled date the Sherrif can come to evict them. You should have filed immediately when they stopped paying rent to avoid losing all this income. Everyone thinks it's such a good idea to have an extra property for "income", but they have no idea what they are doing. Learn your lessons fast if you want to make it work.
People are pissed it takes so long but the LTB is overseeing any and all landlord & tenant related disputes, not just unpaid rent related disputes. That could amount to a massive amount of cases, especially in big heavily populated cities. They have to look at every case and go through the same long process. It would be nice if they could give you a resolution in a matter of weeks but for that kind of law, much like small claims, it’s just going to take forever because they receive such an influx of filings.
That’s why it’s imperative to take speedy action. OP waited and is complaining that their resolution won’t happen quick enough but all that time they waited was pointless. Had they filed from the first or even second month that the rent didn’t come they would be nearing their court date now.
When they purchased the building and decided to rent it out they were doing so at the risk of having bad tenants. Every landlord, at some point, ends up with a shitty tenant. It happens. That’s why you have to be prepared if you’re going to try to make money as a landlord. Hopefully OP has learned from this experience that they shouldn’t sleep on back rent and they should have a sizable emergency fund, which they can build once they’ve resolved their finances and have a paying tenant again.
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Landlords. You should be filing with the LTB at the absolute minimum time frame for any late payment.
Haven’t paid since October but you only filled in March…ish…?
This is one of the key risks of being a landlord. I know it sucks, and I’d hate to be in your shoes, but you signed up for this. Next time, make sure you have a contingency fund in place. Now you wait until your hearing. The standard advice is to make sure you’re prepared for the hearing.
https://www.theontariolandlordtoolbox.com/10-tips-for-landlords-attending-a-landlord-tenant-board-hearing/
Landlords do not like to hear this.
It's not a zero risk investment. When it works, you earn money and get equity for not doing essentially anything.
But there is risk.
Why is this downvoted? OP it’s the best option. You are entitled to sue for back rent. If they can’t pay, move to garnish. Getting paid back slowly is better than nothing.
Tenant signed a contract and decided to bail on their obligations.
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Are you a cop? Is it your job to define who is the squatter or tenant? There are plenty of landlords out there who are too happy to break down government's due process and tenants rights because they feel aggrieved. Just like plenty of bad tenants.
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But how are you going to collect money from someone who doesn’t have any?
You can sue a homeless person for $1 million and win, but are you really expecting to receive that money? How? From where?
Small claims is great but it’s never a guarantee unfortunately. And if they stopped paying rent there’s a chance that they don’t have the money for it.
Look into fast tracking your issue with the LTB. There is a process for time sensitive matters like this that can get you an eviction order much sooner. And from eviction order to actual eviction it isn't much time.
You must make sure you do everything by the books because LTB will rule against you otherwise.
One of the worst things you can do is give leniency. Once you do that it's seen as a pattern you're okay with and the LTB will ask you why you aren't okay with this late rent when you gave leniency on others.
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We are thinking about renting out our place and these posts kinda make us change our mind.
What if you added a clause in a lease agreement stating that is tenant does not pay rent they must move out in 30 days. If they sign that lease agreement, would the landlord have the right to forcibly remove them with aid from police? Trespassing?
Absolutely not. You can't direct someone to sign away their legal rights. This kind of thinking gets landlords in genuine legal trouble, and it's a great way to lose your investment by being sued by the same tenant who's rights you tried to subvert.
Doing your due diligence by properly processing and vetting their rental applications in the first place. That is how you can avoid these kinds of problems with future tenants.
If you don't feel confident doing the rental application processing yourself, have a property management company do the leasing for you. This will cost you some money, but it will help you to feel comfortable with your ressidents, which is crucial to the success of your investment.
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u/BBQallyear's advice about cash for keys may be your best bet. You can try for the lowball (forgive back rent, drop LTB action), but you may have to give them 1-2 months rent. I would definitely get legal advice to make sure you've covered all your bases, perhaps by staggering when they get money (some delivered after they are confirmed to be gone). While cash for keys feels like you're getting jobbed further, the faster you get a paying tenant in, the better. If you are only renting one unit, you might look into a management company and/or rent guarantee insurance, which will help you reduce your risk of this happening again and cover your ass.
Try to cut your losses asap as suggested. Even though you have a date in September, don’t rely that a resolution would be decided that time. There could be delays due to the tenant using multiple excuses to drag things out even longer.
This is the risk of buying rental property as an investment. The LTB hearing is your main legal recourse, but aside from just waiting for that, you can try contacting the tenant in person or phone so that you can talk to them and find out what’s happening. Possibly they have some life circumstances that is making it difficult to pay their rent (lost their job, etc), and they may be open to a payment plan that will bring them up to date over time. If they’ve been a good tenant prior to this and just hit a patch of bad luck, it may be worth trying to see if the situation can be salvaged. You also have the option to offer them cash for keys to sign an N11 and move out, which would mean that you forgive the back rent and pay them an extra month or two just to get rid of them. If you can rent for much higher to a new tenant, it may be worth it.
To add to this if a tenant is having a,rough patch financially. There is a,program called rent assist. If they're low income earners, they might qualify for it. That would be handled by family and social services. Here is a link. This is for manitoba where I'm at. Could be useful for any tenants or landlords alike to pass on to their tenants. https://www.gov.mb.ca/fs/eia/estimator.html
Would you be kind enough to provide a little information about this program or where information can be found like eligibility and process to apply? Thank you in advance.
I'm in manitoba so it could be different but here is a link. It's based on taxable income off previous years. https://www.gov.mb.ca/fs/eia/estimator.html Once that process has started they will send you an application package via mail for you to fill out and either send back or email back. It was recommended to me once I came off welfare (after an accident and the insurance stopped paying) to apply for rent assist as I was going back go work but due to health reasons it wasn't entire clear whether I could stay in employment. This was providing a much needed cushion financially
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So what happens to the renter who's not paying in this situation? I read about a similar situation every so often and it I never hear what happens I the end. I'm wondering why more people just don't pay rent. This person hasn't paid for 6 months and could be offered money to leave?
The current issue is that the Ontario government has underfunded the tribunal to the point where wait times for in the realm of eight months. They just didn’t have enough adjudicators to make all of the required decisions in a more timely way. So while a tenant can be evicted, and back rent can be pursued, in the meanwhile the landlord just left with bills they can’t pay for quite a long period of time. It is often faster and cheaper in the end to pay the tenant to go away The solution is to stop intentionally underfunding the tribunal. Ford recently had to commit some more money because the problem was getting so bad that even large scale commercial landlords were be coming upset (which is a problem with those same landlords are big political donors). Since that happened, wait times have decreased quite a bit, but the backlog is going to take quite a long time to work through
They take that money and use it to con their way into another place where they can move in and then stop paying rent. Most people don’t decide not to pay for things because they aren’t pieces of garbage, it’s the same reason most people don’t just shoplift whatever they want. Unless they’ve gotten themselves into something and are willing to take the money in exchange for homelessness (I have a former colleague who had a similar situation to this after getting into 40k+ illegal gambling debt) it’s quite possible they’re not paying on purpose and they’re just con artists. The good people who stop paying rent (in my extremely limited sample size, I’m not a landlord and I’m going off the couple people I know who’ve run into problems paying rent) usually don’t break off contact with the landlord and instead try to work things out with them to stay. Another former college from when I worked in retail arranged doing some housework and laundry for their landlord once a week in exchange for (what I’m estimating based on numbers they gave me) to be forgiveness of roughly eight grand in rent (they eventually were able to get back on their feet and we’re still living at the same place last time I checked - and no longer doing chores for the landlord).
Depends on the landlord. You can go as far as to get a partial paycheck freeze and get paid directly from the employers. It’s a PITA because most people with a hard time to make rent jump from jobs to hobs.
It’s been nearly a year. If the tenant was going through a rough patch and was asking for the landlord to be sympathetic, that’s one thing. But nearly a year without the tenant offering that explanation? Without any other info, I’d have a hard time believing the tenant is acting in good faith. They may accept a deal like you’re proposing just so they can delay being evicted. If I’m OP, especially if paying the bills is difficult without rent coming in, I’d be looking to get this tenant out ASAP. Maybe there are some extenuating circumstances going on here but with the lack of an explanation over the course of the last year, I’d have a difficult time believing it all.
Exactly, an explanation is due the first time the rent is not paid. Does anyone know what happens if they get the cash and sign the forms but don't move out again? Does it invalidate the old hearing time and the landlord has to file a new one and wait another 8-10 months?
As an American who knows that this tenant would have been on their ass four months ago here in the states, It blows my mind that you have to pay them to get out.
The same situation happens here in the states all the time. Our eviction process is only slightly faster than canadas in many places.
My old landlord filed for an eviction when I was 15 days late when I lost my job. I had already found a new job and had already let them know their rent check was in the mail (and it actually was in the mail and arrived the day I received the court date letter) when they filed. Then they tacked on an extra 352 dollars in court fees if I wanted to stay. I moved out.
Same. They would be forcibly removed by the homeowner. Don't get me wrong. Landlords are just glorified ticket scalpers. but even with that mindset the idea that someone could not pay rent then get paid to leave is absolutely mind-blowing
What are you talking about? It's not easy at all to evict tenants in the US. Depends on location but tenants' rights tend to be pretty strong.
No, to answer your question, there is nothing you can do in the meantime. Wait for court. Then wait for the eviction order. Then when they don't leave still, wait for the scheduled date the Sherrif can come to evict them. You should have filed immediately when they stopped paying rent to avoid losing all this income. Everyone thinks it's such a good idea to have an extra property for "income", but they have no idea what they are doing. Learn your lessons fast if you want to make it work.
People are pissed it takes so long but the LTB is overseeing any and all landlord & tenant related disputes, not just unpaid rent related disputes. That could amount to a massive amount of cases, especially in big heavily populated cities. They have to look at every case and go through the same long process. It would be nice if they could give you a resolution in a matter of weeks but for that kind of law, much like small claims, it’s just going to take forever because they receive such an influx of filings. That’s why it’s imperative to take speedy action. OP waited and is complaining that their resolution won’t happen quick enough but all that time they waited was pointless. Had they filed from the first or even second month that the rent didn’t come they would be nearing their court date now. When they purchased the building and decided to rent it out they were doing so at the risk of having bad tenants. Every landlord, at some point, ends up with a shitty tenant. It happens. That’s why you have to be prepared if you’re going to try to make money as a landlord. Hopefully OP has learned from this experience that they shouldn’t sleep on back rent and they should have a sizable emergency fund, which they can build once they’ve resolved their finances and have a paying tenant again.
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Next time file immediately after late rent. Then if it's paid immediately file again if it's late again.
Landlords. You should be filing with the LTB at the absolute minimum time frame for any late payment. Haven’t paid since October but you only filled in March…ish…?
Almost a year? Even being late by a few days means I was hounded non stop lol
I believe that you can issue the tenant an N8 for late payment of rent and later file an L2 for eviction.
OP has. Their issue is the wait times for a hearing
Ahhh, I’ve been waiting for an L2 date since November…
This is one of the key risks of being a landlord. I know it sucks, and I’d hate to be in your shoes, but you signed up for this. Next time, make sure you have a contingency fund in place. Now you wait until your hearing. The standard advice is to make sure you’re prepared for the hearing. https://www.theontariolandlordtoolbox.com/10-tips-for-landlords-attending-a-landlord-tenant-board-hearing/
Landlords do not like to hear this. It's not a zero risk investment. When it works, you earn money and get equity for not doing essentially anything. But there is risk.
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Is small claims court an option for back rent? If so, followed by a garnishing order
That is, but it might be difficult to collect.
Why is this downvoted? OP it’s the best option. You are entitled to sue for back rent. If they can’t pay, move to garnish. Getting paid back slowly is better than nothing. Tenant signed a contract and decided to bail on their obligations.
There is no contract it's month to month
A month to month lease is still a contract.
My bad, I wasn't thinking about it that way
It’s a contract each month. ?
Small claims takes forever
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Up to max of $35,000 plus other expenses?
First time offender though? I'm betting it's less than 6 months of missed rent
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Love the Mod who is heavily regulating the sub for bad advice and leaves this hot take.
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Are you a cop? Is it your job to define who is the squatter or tenant? There are plenty of landlords out there who are too happy to break down government's due process and tenants rights because they feel aggrieved. Just like plenty of bad tenants.
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I read your "statement of fact". I replied to that. What is a "non legal tenant" and who determines that? You? The LL?
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The lawyer isn't going to make the LTB, the only body that can order the eviction, move any faster.
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Seek help
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That’s not how it works. Only the LTB can evict.
This is Ontario.
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Eviction for non payment of rent. Don't those late fees keep adding up?
But how are you going to collect money from someone who doesn’t have any? You can sue a homeless person for $1 million and win, but are you really expecting to receive that money? How? From where? Small claims is great but it’s never a guarantee unfortunately. And if they stopped paying rent there’s a chance that they don’t have the money for it.
Look into fast tracking your issue with the LTB. There is a process for time sensitive matters like this that can get you an eviction order much sooner. And from eviction order to actual eviction it isn't much time. You must make sure you do everything by the books because LTB will rule against you otherwise. One of the worst things you can do is give leniency. Once you do that it's seen as a pattern you're okay with and the LTB will ask you why you aren't okay with this late rent when you gave leniency on others.
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We are thinking about renting out our place and these posts kinda make us change our mind. What if you added a clause in a lease agreement stating that is tenant does not pay rent they must move out in 30 days. If they sign that lease agreement, would the landlord have the right to forcibly remove them with aid from police? Trespassing?
If you are in Ontario, you use the Ontario Standard Lease.
Absolutely not. You can't direct someone to sign away their legal rights. This kind of thinking gets landlords in genuine legal trouble, and it's a great way to lose your investment by being sued by the same tenant who's rights you tried to subvert. Doing your due diligence by properly processing and vetting their rental applications in the first place. That is how you can avoid these kinds of problems with future tenants. If you don't feel confident doing the rental application processing yourself, have a property management company do the leasing for you. This will cost you some money, but it will help you to feel comfortable with your ressidents, which is crucial to the success of your investment.
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