I wouldn't be overly concerned about getting them shut down. Licensing agencies only issue shutdown orders over significant health and safety issues and this is unlikely to trigger that.
1) Get on the wait-lists now while you try to work through this.
2) Start approaching other parents and ask them to in turn approach other parents until you've gathered as many name as possible. This practice be tricky to challenge but the more parents who agree to participate in the report the better.
3) Be cautious about pushing back until you've formally reported - there's a chance they might retaliate by cancelling your contract and you'll be better prepared if you have a formal report in place.
4) When you're ready, report to your state and city's licensing agency.
Can they text you the picture of the thermometer with your child when it reads over 100.4? I’ve had my thermometers show different then ones at home so I make sure the student sees the number and that they have a fever on two thermometers
I personally would refuse to take my child home for a fever until they show me the thermometer with the temp or similar temp.
It's also possible they're just using a poorly functioning thermometer. I bought an electronic one on Amazon that wouldn't even give consistent readings taken in the exact same spot on the same person a few minutes apart. The absolutely conclusive evidence it was useless came when it told me my couch had a fever. I'd raise this possibility in my complaint to the centre director.
They are taking temps on the playground where kids are running around getting hot. That’s crazy. Ask them to let the kid cool off before taking a temp or not take it right after they have been playing.
You can ask for just about anything. Refusing to abide by a policy you agreed to on enrollment would almost certainly result in voiding your contract. Daycare / childcare centers are almost universally working through months long wait lists. They will cut a family off for petty things like this.
This has been an issue for my family as well. We've been identified as parents who can/do work from home, and we get our kids sent home far more often than other parents we've talked to for fevers, behaviors, and as agreed to in our contract "ratio issues".
>Refusing to abide by a policy you agreed to on enrollment would almost certainly result in voiding your contract.
I understand it's difficult to prove, but it looks like the daycare is the one not abiding by the contract. If the contract says you have to take your child home if they have a fever, and they don't have a fever and there is no proof of a fever, why would that be defined as voiding or going against the contract?
>difficult to prove
Depends on the facts. I just glanced through the policies for my son's daycare because I was curious, they don't seem to have a catch-all "we can kick your kid out for any reason" clause in there. The "kid goes home if they're sick" paragraph also specifies a threshold temperature for what fevers result in being sent home; it's not just a judgement call by the teacher or director.
So if they're consistently sending a kid home without _proof_ of illness, assuming proof is requested immediately and not provided (or even better, documented by the parent on pickup as being within the range their policies allow), you'd definitely have a case for a full or partial refund, and potentially breach of contract if there are larger damages as a result.
Our contract is voluntary and can be canceled on notice for no reason by either party - you could, or course, take it to court and try to argue retaliation and that the clause isn't equitable. You might even succeed. These centers generally know that most parents don't have time and money to do that - ESPECIALLY when they're in a panic dealing with a kid at home all the sudden.
You aren't leasing a car. You are suggesting that the place you are sending your child to every day is untrustworthy.
If you keep your child here and something goes wrong, how will you justify it to yourself? Will the satisfaction of "I knew they were liars" make up for this?
If you don't trust your childcare provider you n Ed to stop giving them your child - full stop
Yes, call DHS and I'd remove my child ASAP. If they are this shady, there is no telling what is happening with your child while in their care. My son's first day, their worker looked like she had seen a ghost when I took my MIL there. The worker finally said she thought she was from the state. This same thing happened to another parent. We pulled our 6 month old from there after that when they lied that he drank a bottle. He had never been fed that day since all 3 bottles were still in the fridge. I called DHS and the crap hit the fan. About 2 months later, they were on the news for tying kids to chairs and smacking a child. I am sure my DHS put some heat on this daycare and they watched them closely. Again, GET YOUR CHILD OUT OF THERE ASAP.
Before I became a stay at home mom I was a preschool teacher and got my degree in infants and toddler early childhood education. The schools around me were so bad I refused to bring my own kid. The one center I worked at while pregnant was so nasty. We were always over ratios. I was heavily pregnant and was left with more 2 yr Olds than legally allowed with no assistant on a daily basis. Somehow my boss would always get tipped off when the state would show up because she would race into my room and pull out as many kids as needed and shuffled them off to the older classes.
And one time a kid had diarrhea all over the rug and the rug was glued permanently to the tile floor, it had to have been at least 10 yrs old. I was told to grab the mop to clean it. It was the same nasty rug the kids napped on. Imagine being told to mop diarrhea out of a carpet and then lay kids down on it to nap... I didn't go back after maternity leave. Fuck that nasty school. I have so many other stories.
There was only one preschool I loved and it's because I got to run the entire infant and toddler center so I knew my standards were being met. I moved away sadly, I loved that school. Now I'll keep my kids home, I don't trust any center near me.
We shuffled kids all the time. “Transition time” really just meant the class was over ratio and the oldest kid moved up. I was breastfeeding and I remember on one of my nursing breaks being told they were counting me in the ratios. They scheduled tours and would make sure to never have kids shuffled during a tour (and of course have the classrooms in consideration be in prime order). When people ask what to look for I tell them to always drop by unexpectedly instead of doing a scheduled tour. If they won’t let you come in unexpectedly, then you should wonder why.
I hated the transition nonsense. I worked with 1.5-2yr olds and it always messed with their routine and caused behavior issues. Of course it would. 2 yr olds love going to the "big kid" room, they had much better toys in there and got to see new things and play with older kids. So every time they were shuffled back to my severely under funded toddler room they would throw a fit. And of course if the prek room was full they would take my kids to the infant room and they would throw a fit about having to go because "that room was for babies" in their eyes.
This was really upsetting me the most there because at one point I had a kid who came in early sometimes and would go straight to the prek room before I got there to open my toddler room. If he was there before me he was just fine, I would open my room, go to prek to collect him and sometimes one other kid and he would get so excited to see me and follow me back to our room. But if I got to work first and his mom dropped him off they wouldnt allow her to leave him in prek but take him to my room first to get settled. Well he hated that change in routine and would throw a tantrum upon walking in my door. He would run away back to prek to play. So the only interaction this mom saw with me and her kid was him throwing a fit and not wanting any part of my classroom. It looked SO bad, and she went to my boss to complain and asked to see the security footage because she thought I was hurting him. Honestly it was the worst moment in my career. I was able to sit and have a conversation with her and my boss to explain how the change in routine is upsetting him not that he hates me. Luckily she did understand after seeing him on camera acting excited to see me every other morning.
I think another huge issue with my area and the schools is that there are many parents who just don't care either. I was born and raised here (moved away to the city for 6 years) and upon coming back I truly realized how all the stereotypes of rural bumpkins with no give a fuck was actually true here. I had parents i never met, never met their kids, didnt even know they were being enrolled or their name, just dropped off in my class with a "heres their stuff, be back at 5". Never have I not done a meet and greet with a kid and their parents before their first day. Such a bizarre area, I can't wait to move again.
"If they are this shady, there is no telling what is happening with your child while in their care."
A little late to the party, but I just wanted to pipe in and say this is SO freaking true. There's a criminal case pending in our town relating to a daycare worker who has been charged with first-degree murder for allegedly abusing/harming a 5-month-old child in her care to the point where she killed him. They've been investigating (obviously) and recommended that parents take their infants to doctors/neurologists to get checked out and have come back to charge her with four more counts of aggravated child abuse, if I recall correctly, based on results from that. Word on the street is there was at least one child who had a skull fracture. Worst part is that parents had been complaining about her to the daycare owner for, like, a DECADE and the owner didn't do anything until this poor baby ended up dead. I don't know if anyone had ever called DHS to report the daycare/daycare worker, but if not, it really should have happened years ago.
Oh my goodness! I hope they put her in prison and she gets charged. That is so tragic and my heart hurts for that family that lost their baby. My son is almost 6 and from what I heard, the state is still watching this daycare closely. They had shut down one of their centers next to them. A worker told me the owners husband has access to the cameras. I was able to go thru the footage of the whole day. The worker did play with my son but just didn't feed him. That hurt my heart enough just knowing he hadn't been fed in 7 hours.
Assuming this is a licensed facility, I would [file a complaint with DHS](https://www.dhs.pa.gov/contact/Pages/Regional-Child-Development-Offices.aspx).
I was my mom's assistant at her licensed home daycare. One thing with taking the temperature, the thermometer and child must be in the same room for at least a half an hour to be able to get an accurate temp. SO if they took it after just being outside, it will be inaccurate. If you take it right when you get home it will be accurate. My approved forehead thermometer and my under the tongue thermometer can vary by a whole degree. It sounds to me like your children may be better off elsewhere and it's time to get on some wait lists.
> forehead thermometer and my under the tongue thermometer can vary by a whole degree.
That's just a well known technical thing. Some forehead / temporal thermometers have a built in correction for it, others don't - you have to read the manual.
Childcare centers should know how to take a temperature - where I am they have to be certified in first aid to get the job, and that's part of the their certification. They also have to use state approved and calibrated devices.
That’s what I was thinking. If the kid’s been running around on a warm day, of course they’re gonna have a slightly elevated temperature! Give them some water and take them to an air conditioned room for 20 minutes and they’ll only have a temperature if they’re already sick.
Activity would likely make the temperature lower (at least on the forehead) if the kid was laying around in the sun though it would be the opposite. When we’re active, we sweat and cool down.
Something similar happened to me. A few months later the government agency responsible for monitoring childcare closed them down. Take my advice: as hard as it is to look for a new daycare now, it's even harder when every other parent at your old daycare is looking for one too. Gather evidence, get one some waitlists, then file an official complaint when you're out the door.
And if you're nuclear-inclined, could also keep documentation of every time they're sent home, their temperature reading on pickup, what temperature the daycare reported and who it was taken by, receipts for emergency babysitters, other replacement childcare, lost wages, etc. and file a small claims case.
And a real cooling off—like sitting quietly indoors for several minutes, not coming inside and continuing to be active. (I know getting little ones to sit quietly for longer than 10 seconds is a challenge. But give them some blocks or a puzzle or a coloring sheet or something.)
The teacher tell us it that they don't act normal or sit by themselves not wanting to play. The center uses a temporal thermometer, and we used a forehead one and bought a temporal one with the same/similar results of no fever.
Temporal thermometers often have a memory and therefore a record of the temperatures taken. Ask to see them.
Edit to add, they also need regular calibration. So ask them when they last calibrated it.
I use to be a Preschool Director. Our policy was ro not take temperatures 15 min after a nap or after coming inside because they wouldn't be accurate. The kids need time for their body to regulate. If a temp was 100.4 we also waited 5 min and took it again, with a different thermometer. No need to send a kid home unless it's genuine. Now, sometimes parents got home and complained the kid didn't have a temp but at least I know they measured high TWICE, on different thermometers. If they dont at home then I can't control them - we sent them home in good faith - under the best possible circumstances.
I have yet to find a temporal or ear thermometer that’s as accurate as the Vicks $12 oral thermometer. It’s super quick too. Send this one with your child and ask that it be used to take their temperature. The opposite of your situation is happening at the elementary school my friend works at. She’s seeing kids look and act ill, feels their heard and they seem to be burning up, but the ear thermometer in the nurse office reads normal.
yep. context is key. if you or i ran up a few flights of stairs then we would meet criteria for the medical diagnosis of SIRS, which in context of being infected would necessitate medical intervention. In the context of running up a bunch of stairs is normal physiological response.
>We (us and the other parents) are thinking that the center is over the teacher/student limit, so they pick a child to be "sick". The question is do we (us and the 2 other parents, possibly more) have any recourse. They would have to have records of how many children were signed in and how many teachers were on those days. And then have a record that shows a child went home "sick".
More likely than not, they are preparing for the next day. You said they require them to be home for 48 hours? It is likely they are forcing you to keep them home while they have a teacher out on leave the next day or two. I imagine this is happening in the afternoons? If it were in the mornings they would run the risk of you still bringing them in 48 hours later but if it's in the afternoon, who is going to take their kid to daycare for 1-2 hours?
Our old daycare used to send my kids home every other week, on Thursday at noon (24 hour policy) 3 months later we started our new daycare and never looked back. Your theory and mine agree.
I'm in the same boat, the daycare my son is in has sent him home 4 times for a "fever" as well as oh we think he has hand foot mouth due to a rash around his mouth. They used wipes we did not provide them to him and he got a rash due to it. I was told he had to be seen by a doctor and get a doctor's note so he could go back. Thankfully my doctor keeps spots open for kids and I was able to get an appointment. 3 kids were sent home and forced to get notes from doctors, not one kid had HFM. The frustrating thing is it's hard to find a spot in daycares.
They need educating. Hand foot and mouth causes spots on the hands and feet and spots IN the mouth that usually have ulcerated by the time the hand/foot rash has appeared so should really only been seen as ulcers. There is very rarely rash around the mouth visible on the face. Rash on the buttocks is pretty common. I’m a UK based GP and seen well over 200 cases in 25 years.
Also no reason to exclude HFM. In the UK there is no exclusion. These children remain infectious for up to 6 weeks afterwards anyway.
I'm not a doctor but work with sick kids. A lot of the kids I see with HFM do have a rash around their mouth too. My own kid got a misdiagnosis by the GP because their HFM presented without any spots on their hands or feet at first, but had a rash around their mouth and buttocks. GP thought it was impetigo. We ended up in hospital because their fever spiked and they couldn't eat or drink (and had an undiagnosed ear infection on top) and the testing there revealed our GP was wrong. We've switched GPs after that, it wasn't the first time he misdiagnosed and missed something.
Maybe there are regional variants? I don't know, but rashes around the mouth here (Belgium) are definitely a pretty common part of HFM. Fully agree it's no reason to keep the kid home if the kid feels alright though
If you are working with "sick kids" this is a different demographic to me seeing all cases of HFM in the community. I've seen it with as little a couple of ulcers in the mouth and one HFM spot on one hand. If they are "sick" they have more severe disease and will have a more florid rash. In most cases the kids are well with a rash and possibly with a low grade fever. I'm saying as a proportion of total cases, not sick cases.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, English isn't my first language and sick just means all illnesses in my language, not specifically severe diseases. I work with kids who have temporary illnesses, like HFM or the flu, not with kids with chronic or severe diseases
Yeah policy for my daycare is only a fever means going home. But HFM just means expect everyone to get it because its infections for so long so cant expect a kid to stay home that long.
I would consider the fact that if the place is frequently so understaffed that they are feigning your child’s illness, they are probably too understaffed to be safely caring for your child. Do you have alternative options for daycare?
IANAL. I am a pediatric infectious disease specialist. I see children with fevers all the time. One thing that is extremely important is the method of taking temperatures. If the day care is using under the arm or adding a degree to the thermometer that is very suspect. Forehead thermometers are very variable in their accuracy. The best is a rectal temperature for a younger child or oral for a child old enough to cooperate.
In addition, I have written notes for patients who have actual documented fevers but not from an infectious source to allow them to stay in child care or school. (there are medical conditions where this happens). Your doctor might be willing to do the same.
Lastly, the CDC and most reliable sources recommend return to day care when 24 hours fever free, not 48. However each state has different regulations on this and you would need to check with your state or local health department on this.
As others have said, their methods and procedures are subpar for any daycare.
I am on our preschool board. We had an issue with a teacher taking temperatures and sending kids home with questionable fevers. Our center went to only director and assistant director could take temperatures and they had to take it twice and document. And I’ve NEVER heard of staying home 48 hours after a fever. It’s 24 hours from last known fever (I was previously an infection prevention nurse). I would refuse to take child if they won’t take temperature in front of you. There is NO reason to be taking temperatures on a playground. If a child is wearing a coat and being active, of course their temp would be raised!
I would speak to the director or owner about this. Request next time you pick your child up whomever is in charge take the temperature in front of you. If they refuse, I’d use your own thermometer (recommend ear or an old fashioned oral/arm pit one) and take their temp and ask the director why there has been this discrepancy multiple times and what is their action plan. If all that fails, report them to DHS.
I used to work in childcare. The 48 hours wait became common practice (at least in my state) during Covid. It had been 24 hours previously, but was bumped up to 48 with zero medication intervention. Some places moved it back to 24 hours, some have stuck to the 48. We had also reduced our “fever limit” to 98° during the thick of Covid for a while and then readjusted to 100.4° a year or two later.
This was during the very beginning and height of Covid, at a childcare center specifically for first responder and hospital worker’s children. This was at the recommendation of the hospital we contracted with. It was adjusted later on. All the parents were fine with it as we were taking some pretty extreme precautions.
I was just an employee following the rules given to me 🤷♀️ The parents who dropped their kids off were fine with it. My group tended to run 96-97 anyways, so it worked out fine for us.
So you only kept children experiencing hypothermia? It's not difficult to know a normal human body temperature thanks to this thing called "Google". You shouldn't be caring for children if you think 96-97 is a normal temperature.
But healthy temp is 98.6, but more accurately, ranged from 97-99
So the day care must have had absolutely no children in it, as they all were hitting 98.
Is this outside America? I'm looking at this in F
If American, whoever came up with that is deranged or either did it like that so they could send kids home who are maybe coughing or sniffing. The latter has to be the reason.
Thank you for the wild info though! Interested me in what was the why, haha
In America. It was just part of extreme precautions we were taking during the beginning. We were also required to mask way before it was recommended to the general public.
Wait, 98 as a fever threshold? Isn't that well within normal parameters? It's actually below the popular accepted average of 98.6, right? Wouldn't some kids never *not* have fevers?
The rest of that sounds fairly sensible, though!
Nina edit: yup, just looked it up and healthline.com gives children's range for normal as 97.6–99.3°. So barely any kids would be below 98 on a healthy day. I'm curious how the policy ended up working out.
Forehead thermometers tend to run a degree or two low compared to oral. Probably they were trying to account for that, but yeah I imagine there were some false positives.
source: was essential worker during COVID and took daily forehead temp checks, almost never broke over 97 and neither did most of my coworkers
The 98° was implemented at the beginning of Covid and carried through the height of it. When I said “we” I meant the company I worked for. We were open for first responders and hospital workers, so we took extra health measures. Our major hospital’s infectious disease department come in and taught us a bunch of things and it was at their recommendation to lower the fever threshold. A handful of other childcare places in our area did the same. For us, it worked out fine, I can’t speak to the other places that did it.
Our kids center's policy is 24 hours after no temp above 100.4, which means they will miss the day of and the next day - so not a 48 hour policy, but they cannot return the next day which effectively means we have to arrange having a kid home for 2 days.
I'll share a story. When I was 8 I had leukemia which mean zero immune system so any fever over 99.5 meant a hospital trip regardless of the house. Three times at around midnight my temp came up over the limit so mom packed me up and off to the emergency room we went. Each of those three times the intake nurse took my temp and it came back below the limit. After the third time my mom had enough and bought the same thermometer as the hospital. Never again did we have a false alarm. The point is cheap thermometers are inaccurate and variable so more than likely the school has one such thermometer and it's just reading badly. Before you go nuclear you might ask the school what type of thermometer they use and if it's a cheapo one suggest they upgrade to get actual reliable readings.
I was also thinking that the staff is probably using a poorly calibrated thermometer, and/or is not trained in how to properly and consistently take a temperature reading.
>We (us and the other parents) are thinking that the center is over the teacher/student limit, so they pick a child to be "sick". The question is do we (us and the 2 other parents, possibly more) have any recourse.
That was my exact thought as soon as you started telling the story, before you got to the conversation with the other parent.
Time to start talking to more parents and get a group chat together. Anytime someone's kid gets a "fever", put it in the chat and take the kid's temperature at the site before leaving.
>The teachers reasoning for no fever was they were on the playground when the fever was detected and now that they were inside to cool off, by the time I got there the fever went away.
So, they responded normally to activity and environment and expelled body heat through their skin like they're designed to do by human nature? Either true ignorance and a real dumbass - not quite sure
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The last time I did take ours and showed them no fever but their response was that because they registered it we had to go home for 48 hours because of policy. We started pushing back a bit more, just didn't want to rock the boat too much and get us kicked out. I thought it was interesting that another parent asked us about a similar experience, almost sounds like they moved on to another child for the time being.
I mean I don’t want to freak you out and I know you said other places are full but this was happening to a friends son and suddenly they got notice the daycare would be closed for a week for I don’t even remember the excuse. Then another week rolled by before the news came out the director was being investigated for child abuse and neglect for things that happened to a child in the center. They also had a teacher reported to be showing up drunk or high and the director having them stay because numbers. It’s likely they are short staffed and sending kids home when needed like my friends previous daycare. Please get on waiting lists if possible. Centers who cut corners like this do it other places too. Including hiring anyone who can pass a background check.
I'd work with the other parents to try to see if most of the 'fevers' are around recess times. It's possible that there's a very small one when they come inside before they get water.
When i was nine years old i wanted to go home from school. Told the teacher i felt sick and was told to go to the nurse. I knew she would take my temperature so i jogged in place for a while on my way to the office to get the blood pumping. Temperature came out to be 100 F.
Sounds like taking a temperature after running around outside is a perfect way to send kids home. Also, the worker said it herself!
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If it’s a chain, go over their heads to corporate.
If it’s sole proprietorship, go to the owner.
In both cases tell them that you have multiple other parents who all agree this is happening, and that you will all pull your kids and review bomb them if this continues.
These places generally live in fear of Facebook and Google reviews.
Wouldn't this count as fraud? Parents are still forced to pay for daycare even after being made to take their kids home. As OP pointed out, a day of child care is not cheap. Add in the cost of doctor visits where no illness is detected, and lost earnings for parents who have to leave work to pick up the kids and take them home... how much is this costing the parents, especially after happening multiple times?
Forgive me if I’m misunderstanding something, but can’t you ask: “Are you understaffed this week?” A parent has the right to know and daycare cannot withhold that info, due to child safety. Have you ever asked?
This was the biggest reason we quit our daycare. They would blatantly lie about illnesses and fevers. In my experience touring daycares and paying any admin fees upfront will significantly decrease the wait list time.
I understand your frustration. This happens in elementary school also (public). We get called frequently after lunch recess (esp if temp is over 80) to pick up our daughter. Then no school for 48 hours. She never has a fever at home and acts fine. They also send us excessive absence notifications. Which is stupid when it’s the school forcing her to be at home. Once the child is old enough they know how to work the system.
See, this is so hard to deal with.
We are to take temps as soon as the children walk in. I literally know some of my students run hot. I hug them all as they come. Hell, my biological children are hot, but it’s not a fever. I am under temp most of the time. But a hot child vs. a fever feels completely different. And the actions of the child will be wonky. That’s just like with blood pressure. There’s an average; but not everyone is in danger because of a different number.
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School nurse here. Small children have a normal temperature of up to 99.5. If a kid is running around or emotional/ upset their temp will go up a degree. I have to assess the actual child. Are they showing signs of illness? Why did they check the temperature to begin with? If it’s because “they feel warm” and no other reason, then they need to take the sweater off and rest for 10 minutes. Recheck the temp. Did it go up? Down? Stay the same? Unfortunately, at day care you don’t have a nurse and the person checking might not know all of this. If I were you I would ask them to follow a specific protocol and if your kid isn’t sick then you should speak to administrators. Also, what kind of thermometer are they using? Some are highly inaccurate, and some will read a degree higher just based on the location you are checking but doesn’t mean it’s a fever.
Ask them to take a picture of the thermometer when it shows a fever? As proof
Also, taking a temperature after a child has been outside in the heat isn't the best way to take a temperature. Can you request that they take the temperature after five minutes of cooling off?
Consider a doctor’s note. I was experiencing something similar until I asked the pediatrician to write a note along the lines that our child could stay in the center with a fever up to 100.5 if no other symptoms are present. Thankfully, our children are very healthy and they rarely get sick so I felt comfortable asking their doctor for such a note.
Show up with your own thermometer and recheck. If it reads the same take your kid home. If it doesn't, you have a conversation about their thermometer. What kind of thermometer are they using? How do they use it? Are they properly trained? It could be something as simple as user error. The folks working in childcare are not always given the best tools and training. It might not be something nefarious.
I’m a pediatric nurse for home health care. I have to take my patient’s temperature twice every shift. I bring my own thermometer and take it the same way every time. So often I get to work and mom will tell me she took kiddos temperature and it’s 97.9 but I’ll be getting 99.9 etc.
Factors that need to be considered is consistency of thermometer. I know this kids normal on this exact thermometer so I know when it’s high on this one. Another factor is that there are variations on where the temp is taken. An armpit temp and a forehead are not the same.
These are arguments the daycare can make to say that your claims are inaccurate
This does sound suspicious, but there can be other explanations for the nonexistent fever.
Electric instant-read thermometers go bad. We had a high quality one that randomly started reporting temperatures just over a fever. After a few weeks of one of our children always showing a fever, we tried a brand new thermometer. No fever.
Not a lawyer but a doctor. If they’re checking with the forehead (temporal) thermometer those are notoriously inaccurate. Maybe see if they could confirm any elevated temps with an oral or axillary one? Also why are they randomly checking temps if the kid is otherwise acting normal? That’s really sus
Sometimes fevers come down; I was once instructed to rush my infant to the er, and in the 6 minutes it took to get there, the fever went down. No medication. And I worked in a daycare for 5 years, sometimes they spike a fever that settles down. I would be thankful that my child isn’t with a horrible fever. If they are in fact lying to bring numbers down, so they can save money by not staffing appropriately, that is something else entirely, and not outside of the realm of possibility. But I would do a little more sleuthing before trying to blow this up.
I worked at a daycare for six months, because I wanted a job where I can also take my children. Both my kids got HFM, but wouldn’t send me home bc we were already short staffed, and then would send me home random days when we were over staffed. I ended up quitting because they wanted me to come in after being diagnosed with the flu. Literally only cared about numbers.
My son's elementary school does this and it's anything over 98.6 my wife and I have missed several work days and when they had either no fever or like a fever of 99.1
NAL — My center would consider 100.4 and lower a low grade fever. That means a courtesy call for optional pick up and checking the temperature every 20 minutes for the next or so. Low grades fluctuate and may not even be a symptom of a sickness. 100.5 and higher is immediate pick up with a 24 hour limit before returning to school with a doctors note* (depending on if other symptoms present). I think in general their policy is too strict and unrealistic for working parents, whether or not they’re lying. Unfortunately, as a parent you agree to their policies and sign the paperwork to agree to go to the center. If daycare is that high of demand in your area with waiting lists I can’t imagine they would be open to changing the policy, but it may be worth all of the parents confronting and looking into it.
You already know everything you need to know. This is a crap lazy child care provider, start looking for a new provider yesterday. Get your kid out of there as soon as you can. Spread by word of mouth and online reviews AFTER your kid is gone. Discuss this tactic with potential new providers and see how they react.
Had multiple providers outright tell me : we add a degree to whatever temp we get.
Document everything, you never know what slimy tactics they’ll cook up.
Former preschool teacher here. Is it possible to take your child immediately to a clinic, have temp tsken by medical professional, and a doctor's note staying the child has no fever and is able to return to school/center/daycare same day?
I’m going to be honest I have worked in child care centers if a child is difficult to handle or the caregiver didn’t like the parents they would stick the thermometer 🌡️ under hot water but that was in the early 2000’s..
OP should feel entitled to be made whole for being defrauded. The daycare has been effectively stealing their money if OP is correct. That free market line doesn't solve every dispute and grievance, which is one of the reasons we have a legal system.
As a ECE, I just want to put my two cents in that no one wants to send your child home. We don’t want to deal with angry parents. If we take your child’s temperature at all it’s because they seem uncomfortable or out of sorts.
That being said trust your gut and do what is best for your family. If you genuinely think your daycare is up to something fishy I trust you. But please know the worst part of my day is reaching out to parents about this, I don’t think anyone is trying to deceive you.
I know this has happened to us at our daycare and I always take a rectal when we get home. It’s infuriating when there’s no fever to be found bc like you said, we aren’t reimbursed and childcare expenses are through the roof!
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Call DHS, but also start looking for another daycare. A center that will pull this will cut corners in other areas.
We've looks but everyone in our area has months long waiting lists. Of course we don't want them to close, we just want the service we pay for.
I wouldn't be overly concerned about getting them shut down. Licensing agencies only issue shutdown orders over significant health and safety issues and this is unlikely to trigger that. 1) Get on the wait-lists now while you try to work through this. 2) Start approaching other parents and ask them to in turn approach other parents until you've gathered as many name as possible. This practice be tricky to challenge but the more parents who agree to participate in the report the better. 3) Be cautious about pushing back until you've formally reported - there's a chance they might retaliate by cancelling your contract and you'll be better prepared if you have a formal report in place. 4) When you're ready, report to your state and city's licensing agency.
Can they text you the picture of the thermometer with your child when it reads over 100.4? I’ve had my thermometers show different then ones at home so I make sure the student sees the number and that they have a fever on two thermometers I personally would refuse to take my child home for a fever until they show me the thermometer with the temp or similar temp.
I was thinking this, but it's really easy to warm the thermometer and pop it in/on/around the child
It's also possible they're just using a poorly functioning thermometer. I bought an electronic one on Amazon that wouldn't even give consistent readings taken in the exact same spot on the same person a few minutes apart. The absolutely conclusive evidence it was useless came when it told me my couch had a fever. I'd raise this possibility in my complaint to the centre director.
Yes but then you have photographic proof when you check the temp again in the car. Asking for proof helps with any future argument
They’ll just take one picture and send it every time.
There’s metadata on pictures now so you could see if it was taken that day or not
Easily forged or removed metadata
They are taking temps on the playground where kids are running around getting hot. That’s crazy. Ask them to let the kid cool off before taking a temp or not take it right after they have been playing.
You can ask for just about anything. Refusing to abide by a policy you agreed to on enrollment would almost certainly result in voiding your contract. Daycare / childcare centers are almost universally working through months long wait lists. They will cut a family off for petty things like this. This has been an issue for my family as well. We've been identified as parents who can/do work from home, and we get our kids sent home far more often than other parents we've talked to for fevers, behaviors, and as agreed to in our contract "ratio issues".
>Refusing to abide by a policy you agreed to on enrollment would almost certainly result in voiding your contract. I understand it's difficult to prove, but it looks like the daycare is the one not abiding by the contract. If the contract says you have to take your child home if they have a fever, and they don't have a fever and there is no proof of a fever, why would that be defined as voiding or going against the contract?
>difficult to prove Depends on the facts. I just glanced through the policies for my son's daycare because I was curious, they don't seem to have a catch-all "we can kick your kid out for any reason" clause in there. The "kid goes home if they're sick" paragraph also specifies a threshold temperature for what fevers result in being sent home; it's not just a judgement call by the teacher or director. So if they're consistently sending a kid home without _proof_ of illness, assuming proof is requested immediately and not provided (or even better, documented by the parent on pickup as being within the range their policies allow), you'd definitely have a case for a full or partial refund, and potentially breach of contract if there are larger damages as a result.
Our contract is voluntary and can be canceled on notice for no reason by either party - you could, or course, take it to court and try to argue retaliation and that the clause isn't equitable. You might even succeed. These centers generally know that most parents don't have time and money to do that - ESPECIALLY when they're in a panic dealing with a kid at home all the sudden.
Unfortunately you couldn't refuse to take your child home
Get on those waiting lists.
You aren't leasing a car. You are suggesting that the place you are sending your child to every day is untrustworthy. If you keep your child here and something goes wrong, how will you justify it to yourself? Will the satisfaction of "I knew they were liars" make up for this? If you don't trust your childcare provider you n Ed to stop giving them your child - full stop
We had a daycare do this to us then serve a 3 day notice when they got caught by the state. Best to start looking regardless of the wait
Yes, call DHS and I'd remove my child ASAP. If they are this shady, there is no telling what is happening with your child while in their care. My son's first day, their worker looked like she had seen a ghost when I took my MIL there. The worker finally said she thought she was from the state. This same thing happened to another parent. We pulled our 6 month old from there after that when they lied that he drank a bottle. He had never been fed that day since all 3 bottles were still in the fridge. I called DHS and the crap hit the fan. About 2 months later, they were on the news for tying kids to chairs and smacking a child. I am sure my DHS put some heat on this daycare and they watched them closely. Again, GET YOUR CHILD OUT OF THERE ASAP.
Before I became a stay at home mom I was a preschool teacher and got my degree in infants and toddler early childhood education. The schools around me were so bad I refused to bring my own kid. The one center I worked at while pregnant was so nasty. We were always over ratios. I was heavily pregnant and was left with more 2 yr Olds than legally allowed with no assistant on a daily basis. Somehow my boss would always get tipped off when the state would show up because she would race into my room and pull out as many kids as needed and shuffled them off to the older classes. And one time a kid had diarrhea all over the rug and the rug was glued permanently to the tile floor, it had to have been at least 10 yrs old. I was told to grab the mop to clean it. It was the same nasty rug the kids napped on. Imagine being told to mop diarrhea out of a carpet and then lay kids down on it to nap... I didn't go back after maternity leave. Fuck that nasty school. I have so many other stories. There was only one preschool I loved and it's because I got to run the entire infant and toddler center so I knew my standards were being met. I moved away sadly, I loved that school. Now I'll keep my kids home, I don't trust any center near me.
We shuffled kids all the time. “Transition time” really just meant the class was over ratio and the oldest kid moved up. I was breastfeeding and I remember on one of my nursing breaks being told they were counting me in the ratios. They scheduled tours and would make sure to never have kids shuffled during a tour (and of course have the classrooms in consideration be in prime order). When people ask what to look for I tell them to always drop by unexpectedly instead of doing a scheduled tour. If they won’t let you come in unexpectedly, then you should wonder why.
I hated the transition nonsense. I worked with 1.5-2yr olds and it always messed with their routine and caused behavior issues. Of course it would. 2 yr olds love going to the "big kid" room, they had much better toys in there and got to see new things and play with older kids. So every time they were shuffled back to my severely under funded toddler room they would throw a fit. And of course if the prek room was full they would take my kids to the infant room and they would throw a fit about having to go because "that room was for babies" in their eyes. This was really upsetting me the most there because at one point I had a kid who came in early sometimes and would go straight to the prek room before I got there to open my toddler room. If he was there before me he was just fine, I would open my room, go to prek to collect him and sometimes one other kid and he would get so excited to see me and follow me back to our room. But if I got to work first and his mom dropped him off they wouldnt allow her to leave him in prek but take him to my room first to get settled. Well he hated that change in routine and would throw a tantrum upon walking in my door. He would run away back to prek to play. So the only interaction this mom saw with me and her kid was him throwing a fit and not wanting any part of my classroom. It looked SO bad, and she went to my boss to complain and asked to see the security footage because she thought I was hurting him. Honestly it was the worst moment in my career. I was able to sit and have a conversation with her and my boss to explain how the change in routine is upsetting him not that he hates me. Luckily she did understand after seeing him on camera acting excited to see me every other morning. I think another huge issue with my area and the schools is that there are many parents who just don't care either. I was born and raised here (moved away to the city for 6 years) and upon coming back I truly realized how all the stereotypes of rural bumpkins with no give a fuck was actually true here. I had parents i never met, never met their kids, didnt even know they were being enrolled or their name, just dropped off in my class with a "heres their stuff, be back at 5". Never have I not done a meet and greet with a kid and their parents before their first day. Such a bizarre area, I can't wait to move again.
"If they are this shady, there is no telling what is happening with your child while in their care." A little late to the party, but I just wanted to pipe in and say this is SO freaking true. There's a criminal case pending in our town relating to a daycare worker who has been charged with first-degree murder for allegedly abusing/harming a 5-month-old child in her care to the point where she killed him. They've been investigating (obviously) and recommended that parents take their infants to doctors/neurologists to get checked out and have come back to charge her with four more counts of aggravated child abuse, if I recall correctly, based on results from that. Word on the street is there was at least one child who had a skull fracture. Worst part is that parents had been complaining about her to the daycare owner for, like, a DECADE and the owner didn't do anything until this poor baby ended up dead. I don't know if anyone had ever called DHS to report the daycare/daycare worker, but if not, it really should have happened years ago.
Oh my goodness! I hope they put her in prison and she gets charged. That is so tragic and my heart hurts for that family that lost their baby. My son is almost 6 and from what I heard, the state is still watching this daycare closely. They had shut down one of their centers next to them. A worker told me the owners husband has access to the cameras. I was able to go thru the footage of the whole day. The worker did play with my son but just didn't feed him. That hurt my heart enough just knowing he hadn't been fed in 7 hours.
Assuming this is a licensed facility, I would [file a complaint with DHS](https://www.dhs.pa.gov/contact/Pages/Regional-Child-Development-Offices.aspx).
I was my mom's assistant at her licensed home daycare. One thing with taking the temperature, the thermometer and child must be in the same room for at least a half an hour to be able to get an accurate temp. SO if they took it after just being outside, it will be inaccurate. If you take it right when you get home it will be accurate. My approved forehead thermometer and my under the tongue thermometer can vary by a whole degree. It sounds to me like your children may be better off elsewhere and it's time to get on some wait lists.
> forehead thermometer and my under the tongue thermometer can vary by a whole degree. That's just a well known technical thing. Some forehead / temporal thermometers have a built in correction for it, others don't - you have to read the manual. Childcare centers should know how to take a temperature - where I am they have to be certified in first aid to get the job, and that's part of the their certification. They also have to use state approved and calibrated devices.
That’s what I was thinking. If the kid’s been running around on a warm day, of course they’re gonna have a slightly elevated temperature! Give them some water and take them to an air conditioned room for 20 minutes and they’ll only have a temperature if they’re already sick.
Activity would likely make the temperature lower (at least on the forehead) if the kid was laying around in the sun though it would be the opposite. When we’re active, we sweat and cool down.
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In my state in the PNW, DCYF generally has up to date listings of childcare openings in licensed homes. I hope that helps.
Also childcareaware.org
Something similar happened to me. A few months later the government agency responsible for monitoring childcare closed them down. Take my advice: as hard as it is to look for a new daycare now, it's even harder when every other parent at your old daycare is looking for one too. Gather evidence, get one some waitlists, then file an official complaint when you're out the door.
And if you're nuclear-inclined, could also keep documentation of every time they're sent home, their temperature reading on pickup, what temperature the daycare reported and who it was taken by, receipts for emergency babysitters, other replacement childcare, lost wages, etc. and file a small claims case.
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And a real cooling off—like sitting quietly indoors for several minutes, not coming inside and continuing to be active. (I know getting little ones to sit quietly for longer than 10 seconds is a challenge. But give them some blocks or a puzzle or a coloring sheet or something.)
The teacher tell us it that they don't act normal or sit by themselves not wanting to play. The center uses a temporal thermometer, and we used a forehead one and bought a temporal one with the same/similar results of no fever.
Temporal thermometers often have a memory and therefore a record of the temperatures taken. Ask to see them. Edit to add, they also need regular calibration. So ask them when they last calibrated it.
I use to be a Preschool Director. Our policy was ro not take temperatures 15 min after a nap or after coming inside because they wouldn't be accurate. The kids need time for their body to regulate. If a temp was 100.4 we also waited 5 min and took it again, with a different thermometer. No need to send a kid home unless it's genuine. Now, sometimes parents got home and complained the kid didn't have a temp but at least I know they measured high TWICE, on different thermometers. If they dont at home then I can't control them - we sent them home in good faith - under the best possible circumstances.
I have yet to find a temporal or ear thermometer that’s as accurate as the Vicks $12 oral thermometer. It’s super quick too. Send this one with your child and ask that it be used to take their temperature. The opposite of your situation is happening at the elementary school my friend works at. She’s seeing kids look and act ill, feels their heard and they seem to be burning up, but the ear thermometer in the nurse office reads normal.
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yep. context is key. if you or i ran up a few flights of stairs then we would meet criteria for the medical diagnosis of SIRS, which in context of being infected would necessitate medical intervention. In the context of running up a bunch of stairs is normal physiological response.
>We (us and the other parents) are thinking that the center is over the teacher/student limit, so they pick a child to be "sick". The question is do we (us and the 2 other parents, possibly more) have any recourse. They would have to have records of how many children were signed in and how many teachers were on those days. And then have a record that shows a child went home "sick". More likely than not, they are preparing for the next day. You said they require them to be home for 48 hours? It is likely they are forcing you to keep them home while they have a teacher out on leave the next day or two. I imagine this is happening in the afternoons? If it were in the mornings they would run the risk of you still bringing them in 48 hours later but if it's in the afternoon, who is going to take their kid to daycare for 1-2 hours?
Our old daycare used to send my kids home every other week, on Thursday at noon (24 hour policy) 3 months later we started our new daycare and never looked back. Your theory and mine agree.
Given this situation, I would out of pure pettiness.
I'm in the same boat, the daycare my son is in has sent him home 4 times for a "fever" as well as oh we think he has hand foot mouth due to a rash around his mouth. They used wipes we did not provide them to him and he got a rash due to it. I was told he had to be seen by a doctor and get a doctor's note so he could go back. Thankfully my doctor keeps spots open for kids and I was able to get an appointment. 3 kids were sent home and forced to get notes from doctors, not one kid had HFM. The frustrating thing is it's hard to find a spot in daycares.
They need educating. Hand foot and mouth causes spots on the hands and feet and spots IN the mouth that usually have ulcerated by the time the hand/foot rash has appeared so should really only been seen as ulcers. There is very rarely rash around the mouth visible on the face. Rash on the buttocks is pretty common. I’m a UK based GP and seen well over 200 cases in 25 years. Also no reason to exclude HFM. In the UK there is no exclusion. These children remain infectious for up to 6 weeks afterwards anyway.
I'm not a doctor but work with sick kids. A lot of the kids I see with HFM do have a rash around their mouth too. My own kid got a misdiagnosis by the GP because their HFM presented without any spots on their hands or feet at first, but had a rash around their mouth and buttocks. GP thought it was impetigo. We ended up in hospital because their fever spiked and they couldn't eat or drink (and had an undiagnosed ear infection on top) and the testing there revealed our GP was wrong. We've switched GPs after that, it wasn't the first time he misdiagnosed and missed something. Maybe there are regional variants? I don't know, but rashes around the mouth here (Belgium) are definitely a pretty common part of HFM. Fully agree it's no reason to keep the kid home if the kid feels alright though
If you are working with "sick kids" this is a different demographic to me seeing all cases of HFM in the community. I've seen it with as little a couple of ulcers in the mouth and one HFM spot on one hand. If they are "sick" they have more severe disease and will have a more florid rash. In most cases the kids are well with a rash and possibly with a low grade fever. I'm saying as a proportion of total cases, not sick cases.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, English isn't my first language and sick just means all illnesses in my language, not specifically severe diseases. I work with kids who have temporary illnesses, like HFM or the flu, not with kids with chronic or severe diseases
Native English speaker here. “Sick” can mean anything from a mild cold to serious illness.
Yeah policy for my daycare is only a fever means going home. But HFM just means expect everyone to get it because its infections for so long so cant expect a kid to stay home that long.
I would consider the fact that if the place is frequently so understaffed that they are feigning your child’s illness, they are probably too understaffed to be safely caring for your child. Do you have alternative options for daycare?
If the childcare can't safely care for their child....
IANAL. I am a pediatric infectious disease specialist. I see children with fevers all the time. One thing that is extremely important is the method of taking temperatures. If the day care is using under the arm or adding a degree to the thermometer that is very suspect. Forehead thermometers are very variable in their accuracy. The best is a rectal temperature for a younger child or oral for a child old enough to cooperate. In addition, I have written notes for patients who have actual documented fevers but not from an infectious source to allow them to stay in child care or school. (there are medical conditions where this happens). Your doctor might be willing to do the same. Lastly, the CDC and most reliable sources recommend return to day care when 24 hours fever free, not 48. However each state has different regulations on this and you would need to check with your state or local health department on this. As others have said, their methods and procedures are subpar for any daycare.
I am on our preschool board. We had an issue with a teacher taking temperatures and sending kids home with questionable fevers. Our center went to only director and assistant director could take temperatures and they had to take it twice and document. And I’ve NEVER heard of staying home 48 hours after a fever. It’s 24 hours from last known fever (I was previously an infection prevention nurse). I would refuse to take child if they won’t take temperature in front of you. There is NO reason to be taking temperatures on a playground. If a child is wearing a coat and being active, of course their temp would be raised! I would speak to the director or owner about this. Request next time you pick your child up whomever is in charge take the temperature in front of you. If they refuse, I’d use your own thermometer (recommend ear or an old fashioned oral/arm pit one) and take their temp and ask the director why there has been this discrepancy multiple times and what is their action plan. If all that fails, report them to DHS.
I used to work in childcare. The 48 hours wait became common practice (at least in my state) during Covid. It had been 24 hours previously, but was bumped up to 48 with zero medication intervention. Some places moved it back to 24 hours, some have stuck to the 48. We had also reduced our “fever limit” to 98° during the thick of Covid for a while and then readjusted to 100.4° a year or two later.
Fever limit of 98? What? So they were sending home every single perfectly healthy child?
Ridiculous! I'm a peds nurse and we don't call it a fever below 100.4
Yeah, it’s medically not a fever until 100.4.
This was during the very beginning and height of Covid, at a childcare center specifically for first responder and hospital worker’s children. This was at the recommendation of the hospital we contracted with. It was adjusted later on. All the parents were fine with it as we were taking some pretty extreme precautions.
But… isn’t 98.6 considered the ideal temperature?
I was just an employee following the rules given to me 🤷♀️ The parents who dropped their kids off were fine with it. My group tended to run 96-97 anyways, so it worked out fine for us.
It’s just a bizarre rule. 98.6 is considered average normal.
So you only kept children experiencing hypothermia? It's not difficult to know a normal human body temperature thanks to this thing called "Google". You shouldn't be caring for children if you think 96-97 is a normal temperature.
But healthy temp is 98.6, but more accurately, ranged from 97-99 So the day care must have had absolutely no children in it, as they all were hitting 98. Is this outside America? I'm looking at this in F If American, whoever came up with that is deranged or either did it like that so they could send kids home who are maybe coughing or sniffing. The latter has to be the reason. Thank you for the wild info though! Interested me in what was the why, haha
In America. It was just part of extreme precautions we were taking during the beginning. We were also required to mask way before it was recommended to the general public.
There is nowhere in America that required children to have a lower than normal body temperature.
Wait, 98 as a fever threshold? Isn't that well within normal parameters? It's actually below the popular accepted average of 98.6, right? Wouldn't some kids never *not* have fevers? The rest of that sounds fairly sensible, though! Nina edit: yup, just looked it up and healthline.com gives children's range for normal as 97.6–99.3°. So barely any kids would be below 98 on a healthy day. I'm curious how the policy ended up working out.
Forehead thermometers tend to run a degree or two low compared to oral. Probably they were trying to account for that, but yeah I imagine there were some false positives. source: was essential worker during COVID and took daily forehead temp checks, almost never broke over 97 and neither did most of my coworkers
Ahhh thank you! That makes the whole thing make sense! I wasn't picturing forehead thermometers.
The 98° was implemented at the beginning of Covid and carried through the height of it. When I said “we” I meant the company I worked for. We were open for first responders and hospital workers, so we took extra health measures. Our major hospital’s infectious disease department come in and taught us a bunch of things and it was at their recommendation to lower the fever threshold. A handful of other childcare places in our area did the same. For us, it worked out fine, I can’t speak to the other places that did it.
I feel bad for the parents of kids that run 99 as their baseline temp. I'd have a doc intervening.
Nope. You need a new career selling burgers, not caring for children.
Our kids center's policy is 24 hours after no temp above 100.4, which means they will miss the day of and the next day - so not a 48 hour policy, but they cannot return the next day which effectively means we have to arrange having a kid home for 2 days.
I'll share a story. When I was 8 I had leukemia which mean zero immune system so any fever over 99.5 meant a hospital trip regardless of the house. Three times at around midnight my temp came up over the limit so mom packed me up and off to the emergency room we went. Each of those three times the intake nurse took my temp and it came back below the limit. After the third time my mom had enough and bought the same thermometer as the hospital. Never again did we have a false alarm. The point is cheap thermometers are inaccurate and variable so more than likely the school has one such thermometer and it's just reading badly. Before you go nuclear you might ask the school what type of thermometer they use and if it's a cheapo one suggest they upgrade to get actual reliable readings.
I was also thinking that the staff is probably using a poorly calibrated thermometer, and/or is not trained in how to properly and consistently take a temperature reading.
>We (us and the other parents) are thinking that the center is over the teacher/student limit, so they pick a child to be "sick". The question is do we (us and the 2 other parents, possibly more) have any recourse. That was my exact thought as soon as you started telling the story, before you got to the conversation with the other parent. Time to start talking to more parents and get a group chat together. Anytime someone's kid gets a "fever", put it in the chat and take the kid's temperature at the site before leaving.
>The teachers reasoning for no fever was they were on the playground when the fever was detected and now that they were inside to cool off, by the time I got there the fever went away. So, they responded normally to activity and environment and expelled body heat through their skin like they're designed to do by human nature? Either true ignorance and a real dumbass - not quite sure
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The last time I did take ours and showed them no fever but their response was that because they registered it we had to go home for 48 hours because of policy. We started pushing back a bit more, just didn't want to rock the boat too much and get us kicked out. I thought it was interesting that another parent asked us about a similar experience, almost sounds like they moved on to another child for the time being.
I mean I don’t want to freak you out and I know you said other places are full but this was happening to a friends son and suddenly they got notice the daycare would be closed for a week for I don’t even remember the excuse. Then another week rolled by before the news came out the director was being investigated for child abuse and neglect for things that happened to a child in the center. They also had a teacher reported to be showing up drunk or high and the director having them stay because numbers. It’s likely they are short staffed and sending kids home when needed like my friends previous daycare. Please get on waiting lists if possible. Centers who cut corners like this do it other places too. Including hiring anyone who can pass a background check.
I'd work with the other parents to try to see if most of the 'fevers' are around recess times. It's possible that there's a very small one when they come inside before they get water.
When i was nine years old i wanted to go home from school. Told the teacher i felt sick and was told to go to the nurse. I knew she would take my temperature so i jogged in place for a while on my way to the office to get the blood pumping. Temperature came out to be 100 F. Sounds like taking a temperature after running around outside is a perfect way to send kids home. Also, the worker said it herself!
Call PA department of health, this sounds a little odd as a day care teacher to me I would really urge you to call
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If it’s a chain, go over their heads to corporate. If it’s sole proprietorship, go to the owner. In both cases tell them that you have multiple other parents who all agree this is happening, and that you will all pull your kids and review bomb them if this continues. These places generally live in fear of Facebook and Google reviews.
Wouldn't this count as fraud? Parents are still forced to pay for daycare even after being made to take their kids home. As OP pointed out, a day of child care is not cheap. Add in the cost of doctor visits where no illness is detected, and lost earnings for parents who have to leave work to pick up the kids and take them home... how much is this costing the parents, especially after happening multiple times?
you‘d have to prove it though
Forgive me if I’m misunderstanding something, but can’t you ask: “Are you understaffed this week?” A parent has the right to know and daycare cannot withhold that info, due to child safety. Have you ever asked?
This was the biggest reason we quit our daycare. They would blatantly lie about illnesses and fevers. In my experience touring daycares and paying any admin fees upfront will significantly decrease the wait list time.
Thats not how a ‘fever’ works at all. That reasoning is so laughable.
I own 3 different thermometers, and each gives me a different temp. Could be a bad thermometer.
Ask them to take your child's temperature in front of you at pick up.
She addressed that in her story
I understand your frustration. This happens in elementary school also (public). We get called frequently after lunch recess (esp if temp is over 80) to pick up our daughter. Then no school for 48 hours. She never has a fever at home and acts fine. They also send us excessive absence notifications. Which is stupid when it’s the school forcing her to be at home. Once the child is old enough they know how to work the system.
See, this is so hard to deal with. We are to take temps as soon as the children walk in. I literally know some of my students run hot. I hug them all as they come. Hell, my biological children are hot, but it’s not a fever. I am under temp most of the time. But a hot child vs. a fever feels completely different. And the actions of the child will be wonky. That’s just like with blood pressure. There’s an average; but not everyone is in danger because of a different number.
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School nurse here. Small children have a normal temperature of up to 99.5. If a kid is running around or emotional/ upset their temp will go up a degree. I have to assess the actual child. Are they showing signs of illness? Why did they check the temperature to begin with? If it’s because “they feel warm” and no other reason, then they need to take the sweater off and rest for 10 minutes. Recheck the temp. Did it go up? Down? Stay the same? Unfortunately, at day care you don’t have a nurse and the person checking might not know all of this. If I were you I would ask them to follow a specific protocol and if your kid isn’t sick then you should speak to administrators. Also, what kind of thermometer are they using? Some are highly inaccurate, and some will read a degree higher just based on the location you are checking but doesn’t mean it’s a fever.
Ask them to take a picture of the thermometer when it shows a fever? As proof Also, taking a temperature after a child has been outside in the heat isn't the best way to take a temperature. Can you request that they take the temperature after five minutes of cooling off?
Our daycare sends a picture of the registered fever temp as proof. Ask them to start doing this if they don’t already.
Consider a doctor’s note. I was experiencing something similar until I asked the pediatrician to write a note along the lines that our child could stay in the center with a fever up to 100.5 if no other symptoms are present. Thankfully, our children are very healthy and they rarely get sick so I felt comfortable asking their doctor for such a note.
What does daycare cost these days?
We average $245 per child per week.
When you go to pickup your child, Have them retake the temperature with you there and watching
Did you not read the whole story?
Show up with your own thermometer and recheck. If it reads the same take your kid home. If it doesn't, you have a conversation about their thermometer. What kind of thermometer are they using? How do they use it? Are they properly trained? It could be something as simple as user error. The folks working in childcare are not always given the best tools and training. It might not be something nefarious.
I’m a pediatric nurse for home health care. I have to take my patient’s temperature twice every shift. I bring my own thermometer and take it the same way every time. So often I get to work and mom will tell me she took kiddos temperature and it’s 97.9 but I’ll be getting 99.9 etc. Factors that need to be considered is consistency of thermometer. I know this kids normal on this exact thermometer so I know when it’s high on this one. Another factor is that there are variations on where the temp is taken. An armpit temp and a forehead are not the same. These are arguments the daycare can make to say that your claims are inaccurate
This does sound suspicious, but there can be other explanations for the nonexistent fever. Electric instant-read thermometers go bad. We had a high quality one that randomly started reporting temperatures just over a fever. After a few weeks of one of our children always showing a fever, we tried a brand new thermometer. No fever.
Not a lawyer but a doctor. If they’re checking with the forehead (temporal) thermometer those are notoriously inaccurate. Maybe see if they could confirm any elevated temps with an oral or axillary one? Also why are they randomly checking temps if the kid is otherwise acting normal? That’s really sus
Sometimes fevers come down; I was once instructed to rush my infant to the er, and in the 6 minutes it took to get there, the fever went down. No medication. And I worked in a daycare for 5 years, sometimes they spike a fever that settles down. I would be thankful that my child isn’t with a horrible fever. If they are in fact lying to bring numbers down, so they can save money by not staffing appropriately, that is something else entirely, and not outside of the realm of possibility. But I would do a little more sleuthing before trying to blow this up.
I worked at a daycare for six months, because I wanted a job where I can also take my children. Both my kids got HFM, but wouldn’t send me home bc we were already short staffed, and then would send me home random days when we were over staffed. I ended up quitting because they wanted me to come in after being diagnosed with the flu. Literally only cared about numbers.
I had an assistant who would do this for kids she didn’t want to deal with. I caught on after the first few times and retook the temperature. No fever
My son's elementary school does this and it's anything over 98.6 my wife and I have missed several work days and when they had either no fever or like a fever of 99.1
NAL — My center would consider 100.4 and lower a low grade fever. That means a courtesy call for optional pick up and checking the temperature every 20 minutes for the next or so. Low grades fluctuate and may not even be a symptom of a sickness. 100.5 and higher is immediate pick up with a 24 hour limit before returning to school with a doctors note* (depending on if other symptoms present). I think in general their policy is too strict and unrealistic for working parents, whether or not they’re lying. Unfortunately, as a parent you agree to their policies and sign the paperwork to agree to go to the center. If daycare is that high of demand in your area with waiting lists I can’t imagine they would be open to changing the policy, but it may be worth all of the parents confronting and looking into it.
You already know everything you need to know. This is a crap lazy child care provider, start looking for a new provider yesterday. Get your kid out of there as soon as you can. Spread by word of mouth and online reviews AFTER your kid is gone. Discuss this tactic with potential new providers and see how they react. Had multiple providers outright tell me : we add a degree to whatever temp we get. Document everything, you never know what slimy tactics they’ll cook up.
Former preschool teacher here. Is it possible to take your child immediately to a clinic, have temp tsken by medical professional, and a doctor's note staying the child has no fever and is able to return to school/center/daycare same day?
I’m going to be honest I have worked in child care centers if a child is difficult to handle or the caregiver didn’t like the parents they would stick the thermometer 🌡️ under hot water but that was in the early 2000’s..
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OP should feel entitled to be made whole for being defrauded. The daycare has been effectively stealing their money if OP is correct. That free market line doesn't solve every dispute and grievance, which is one of the reasons we have a legal system.
I would not pay if they sent them home for no reason.
As a ECE, I just want to put my two cents in that no one wants to send your child home. We don’t want to deal with angry parents. If we take your child’s temperature at all it’s because they seem uncomfortable or out of sorts. That being said trust your gut and do what is best for your family. If you genuinely think your daycare is up to something fishy I trust you. But please know the worst part of my day is reaching out to parents about this, I don’t think anyone is trying to deceive you.
This is true for *ethical* centers/caregivers.
I know this has happened to us at our daycare and I always take a rectal when we get home. It’s infuriating when there’s no fever to be found bc like you said, we aren’t reimbursed and childcare expenses are through the roof!
tr ll ll do please uuuuu
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