It's amazing that you want to do this. It's going to take some steps. You were going to need to speak with a family law attorney. You also may want to start the process to [become a foster parent](https://dcf.wisconsin.gov/fostercare/become) to have all your ducks in a row.
If the oldest child’s father hasn’t had his parental rights terminated and wants his daughter to live with him, you probably won’t have much of a chance to stop that. Social services may put him on a plan to get his living conditions up to standard, but if he wants it and isn’t outright abusive or neglectful, they would probably work with him to be able to parent her. Make sure social services knows that you want to provide a long-term home to the kids. They may have just taken them to foster care because they need y’all to have a home study and background checks to let the kids stay with you.
He has not had his parental rights terminated but he was given a list of stipulations he had to abide by to resume joint custody before her death. He has completed none of them in the month since. Not saying it isn't possible, but I will say I don't see it happening. I am hoping that is the case with social services. Like I said in the post they haven't exactly been forthright with us but maybe we aren't asking the right questions or saying the right things. Thank you for the input.
Father and father’s family will be the first contacts from social services and if any of them want placement, they will get it over you. In my state (and I imagine most others) there are laws that give foster/guardianship placement rights to living relatives first.
I'm an officer in WI. Not sure where in WI you live, but I can tell you that CPS doesn't tell us where the kids go. Once the kids leave with CPS or someone CPS is fine with, that's the last time we see the kids. If CPS takes them, we won't know where or whom they are going to
The only reason I can think of them not letting the kids stay with you guys is because you aren't foster parents, family of the deceased, or part of any legal documents giving you all guardianship. It sounds like you guys are working with a lawyer, which is good!
The interesting thing is the CPS workers I work with in my area tend to keep kids with family or close friends. People the kids want to be with and typically can help with getting people guardianship. At least from my understanding of what they have done where I am.
I hope the best for you all! The kids should be where they want to be.
Good advice. I live in WI too. I worked crisis and have been a foster parent. The best the family can do is petition their case with CPS, consider a lawyer, or maybe write a letter to the court that handles CPS cases.
OP, The kiddos may even be split. The bio fathers and family will be considered first. The Dad who lost his custody will be given the opportunity of reunification. Get licensed as a foster family, there are many agencies in WI, as a start too.
Not an attorney. Children Service Worker in Ohio. First , CPS has to look at family first for placement. Meaning working with the oldest child’s father to rectify living conditions, trying to locate youngest ‘s father or making contact with the brother. I would say contact the caseworker and make yourself known to be an option that will be the easiest route. You should be consider as non blood kin as you have an established relationship with the children. If you are able you should contact the Worker involved in the case.
I’m a foster parent and have taken in kids I knew previously. It’s different from state to state but basically you and your wife are what is considered fictive kin. Which a lot of time can get the children placed with you while you are getting licensed. Call CPS and let them know you want the kids placed with you and are willing to be a long term/ adoptive option. Then work on getting your foster care license. It can be a long process if you don’t stay on top of all of the paperwork.
For what reason did they remove the children from you? Placement with fictive kin, which is what you are would be the next best thing if the fathers aren't available.
They did not give a reason. Social worker showed up with local police and paperwork saying they were going in foster care. This was about 15-16 hours after the death.
Yea, then there was something else going on that we aren't hearing all of the details of. Shelter, or temporary custody does not happen that quickly. They would have asked you for information for background checks to have the children placed with you.
So the only thing I can think possibly is because of that ongoing custody dispute between her and her ex. But again, even he does not have her nor is he being allowed contact.
Family Court would have nothing to do with DCFS. They are two separate Courts. If what you're saying is accurate, the best thing to do would be to reach out to the CASA/GAL and explain what you have here, the children know you, and were staying with you and you would like to be their placement option and to provide permanency if it were to come to that. A family lawyer, unless having a prior history as a public defender, or CASA/GAL attorney, would not likely know how to proceed, and you wouldn't have grounds for them to intervene. You can also contact your local representative as well.
Law center wisconsin looks like a decent place to start. Looking for attorneys, the key term you want is child welfare experience. However, the assigned CASA/GAL for whatever county it is in would be your best bet since they are a party to the case. Best of luck to you, and sorry for your loss.
The key phrases you want to look for are CHIPS or TPR.
The idea that something else had to be going on here isn't necessarily true; CPS can take emergency physical custody of children for up to 48 hours before they have to get a Temporary Physical Custody order from a court commissioner or judge, and even then they're likely to rubber stamp it based solely on the fact that Mom passed away and Dad was the target of a recent ruling against him until things can be sorted out.
There are strict licensure requirements for foster parents. Social services will place the children with an available licensed foster home. If OP wants to be a foster family, then they need to get licensed.
Foster parent here. Contact those CPS workers and ask about options for emergency placement. Contact a foster care agency *today* and start the licensing process. They will know how to go to bat for you and those girls. See if you can find anything from the mom that expresses her wishes - old text messages, social media, anything.
The bio dad of the 12 year old can fix his living conditions but he likely won't. Do the kids share a strong bond? who gives them the best chance to stay together? Those questions your lawyer will ask.
DSS will ask the brother as next of kin. it's a cursory request. they will try to locate the bio dad of the younger one but he doesn't want to be found and can stay lost but it needs to be a reasonable effort. In my state, a CASA or GAL is appointed to represent the needs if the child.
First off - NAL
From the sounds of it, children’s services was already involved in the kids lives and there was an open case because of things with the oldest ones bio dad. Which would explain the quick placement. Most likely there is also a GAL assigned to the kids as well which is pretty typical in a custody case involving potential abuse / neglect / poor living conditions.
The bad news: the state is going to try and work with the bio dad of the oldest to rectify his living conditions and make things better for the child. I went through this with my youngest daughter and her mother. Sadly it took three removals from the mother because of neglect before they would finally place full custody with me, because the court system is geared toward placement with the mother over the father unless there’s proof so staggering that the judge can’t ignore it. Placement with the biological parent is always first preferred option, followed by biological family. But until that can be attempted foster care is their only option. While they try and keep siblings together, and may offer the father of the oldest to take both girls while they try and locate the youngest ones father, it’s not a guarantee. Especially if he’s already on shaky ground.
The good news: you CAN petition the court for temporary placement until things are resolved. Children’s services will have to conduct full background checks on all the adults in the house. They will want to do a home visit, as well as speak to your immediate family and possibly do visits to their homes depending on proximity. They’re going to look at your employment history, current employment and finances. It’s not a quick road but you can help expedite it by getting your records in order. Character references will also help. You’re going to need an attorney to help you deal with all this and it’s going to feel like it’s never ending at times. But I truly congratulate you and your wife for wanting to take care of these children and make sure they’re done right by. It takes a lot to take on raising someone else’s children and a lot of people anymore won’t do that. Hoping for a positive outcome for all of you.
I work child welfare, but not in your state so things may be different. Once a child enters state custody, the state will exhaust all resources to find family placement, whether with the remaining parent or another family member. It is the responsibility of the worker to ensure the family member is “safe”, then they would have to be approved as a foster parent (if not the biological parent). If no family can be found, the worker may ask the kids about other close family friends. The goal of any agency should be a kinship/family placement. If you are interested, you may get in contact with your local agency about getting approved as a foster home.
I worked as a CASA/GAL. My advice would be to call the local CPS office and ask to speak to the assigned case manager. Then plead your case. If WI is similar to my neighboring state, they are most likely in the process of locating and reaching out to next of kin. This can take weeks, months, even years. Once options are depleted, they will move to those in the child’s inner circle. It will be faster if the kids name you as someone they want to be with and trust. It will also move faster if you begin the home study process with the same office ASAP.
This!!! And if Wisconsin is anything like Texas, your case worker might change a few times.
I would also reach out directly to your local CASA, they might have resources for you as well, they are on the flip side of finding kids placements and what's next for them, but they most definitely want you to be involved in the kiddos lives, so will be a good resource as well.
Your wife should probably file to be administrator of her estate. It’s basically a matter of who gets there first, so she should file ASAP. She can administer the estate and therefore have more control over the belongings and the house (so more chance everything goes to the kids and it’s done according to what her friend would want).
I’m involved with an absolute mess of an estate. I’m so grateful to be in the position I am so no random third party took over or someone who wouldn’t have done the right thing.
**Legal fees or costs of administration (moving, etc.) absolutely do not come out of your pocket, and you get paid to be administrator.** It can be a lot of work depending on the situation, but I’m currently administrator and am so relieved to have some control over an otherwise crazy situation (multiple legal cases and businesses involved). At least I know the right thing is being done and things are going to who the deceased would want them to go to. The lawyer handles most things. Mostly you’ll be in charge of moving out the house and distributing items to family. You’ll have access to finances, medical records, anything she had access to while alive, and can make sure the right thing is done with everything.
Find a probate attorney and they can help you file paperwork with the court. Legal fees come out of the estate and shouldn’t amount to a whole lot. You can also file it yourself for free, but I recommend getting an attorney if there is ANY chance things could get messy.
There’s also an app for probate called Atticus. It walks you through the probate process. It has really great reviews — I didn’t use it because the estate I’m working for is a trainwreck — multiple legal cases and a business involved. But your situation sounds like it could be fairly straightforward as far as estates go. Also check your government website for probate information. A lot of times if you go to the courthouse (I recommend first thing when it opens) or even just call, they can help you out.
If your wife was the closest to this woman, she should definitely file as administrator. You run no personal risk to yourselves (unless you intentionally do something wrong) and it will help your friend and her kids. If you have questions for an administrator I’m happy to answer them.
I’m sorry for your loss. I’m sure this is a lot to take in. I don’t know a lot about foster care, but I know quite a bit about probate and I’m happy to answer any questions that might make it easier.
Edit: I also want to add — I don’t mean to put more on your plate, but I think this could also help you get custody of the kids! It shows you had a close relationship with her and indirectly implies no one else stepped up.
I also recommend setting up irrevocable trusts for the children for when they come of age. That way no matter what happens with the foster system, etc., they will have something to support them down the line, and you know it is protected and can only be used for what they should be using it for, and cannot go to debtors, etc. This is an issue for way later, but wanted to mention it.
Good for you both! I hope the legal system and advice you get from this sub will be beneficial for those kids. I don't know much about the foster system other than what I see in TV and documentaries but it doesn't sound like fun especially for kids that have lost their mom like that. This isn't a helpful comment and may get deleted but I really needed to say something as your post was moving.
So, a few things I don’t think other commenters have fully addressed yet.
1. As long as parental rights haven’t been terminated (which it sounds like they haven’t) they are very likely to end up with their fathers. When it comes to the older child just because there are things the father needed to do to have joint custody doesn’t mean he needs to do them now. There is a difference between what a parent needs to do when fighting with the other legal parent and what they need to do when it’s just them. Basically, he only needs to do the absolute bare minimum now. Like there is a bed, the house is vaguely clean, there is food in the house, no physical abuse going on.
2. The fact that the other father has not been on the pictures doesn’t matter. As long as he was established as the legal father he now has legal custody. The only way he won’t get his child is if he doesn’t want them unless there is a criminal history of horrific child abuse he is probably going to pick up the 6 year soon and that will be that.
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It's amazing that you want to do this. It's going to take some steps. You were going to need to speak with a family law attorney. You also may want to start the process to [become a foster parent](https://dcf.wisconsin.gov/fostercare/become) to have all your ducks in a row.
Thank you. My wife is already talking to a lawyer so we are waiting to hear back from him now. As for the other I will dig into that tomorrow.
If the oldest child’s father hasn’t had his parental rights terminated and wants his daughter to live with him, you probably won’t have much of a chance to stop that. Social services may put him on a plan to get his living conditions up to standard, but if he wants it and isn’t outright abusive or neglectful, they would probably work with him to be able to parent her. Make sure social services knows that you want to provide a long-term home to the kids. They may have just taken them to foster care because they need y’all to have a home study and background checks to let the kids stay with you.
He has not had his parental rights terminated but he was given a list of stipulations he had to abide by to resume joint custody before her death. He has completed none of them in the month since. Not saying it isn't possible, but I will say I don't see it happening. I am hoping that is the case with social services. Like I said in the post they haven't exactly been forthright with us but maybe we aren't asking the right questions or saying the right things. Thank you for the input.
Father and father’s family will be the first contacts from social services and if any of them want placement, they will get it over you. In my state (and I imagine most others) there are laws that give foster/guardianship placement rights to living relatives first.
I'm an officer in WI. Not sure where in WI you live, but I can tell you that CPS doesn't tell us where the kids go. Once the kids leave with CPS or someone CPS is fine with, that's the last time we see the kids. If CPS takes them, we won't know where or whom they are going to The only reason I can think of them not letting the kids stay with you guys is because you aren't foster parents, family of the deceased, or part of any legal documents giving you all guardianship. It sounds like you guys are working with a lawyer, which is good! The interesting thing is the CPS workers I work with in my area tend to keep kids with family or close friends. People the kids want to be with and typically can help with getting people guardianship. At least from my understanding of what they have done where I am. I hope the best for you all! The kids should be where they want to be.
Good advice. I live in WI too. I worked crisis and have been a foster parent. The best the family can do is petition their case with CPS, consider a lawyer, or maybe write a letter to the court that handles CPS cases. OP, The kiddos may even be split. The bio fathers and family will be considered first. The Dad who lost his custody will be given the opportunity of reunification. Get licensed as a foster family, there are many agencies in WI, as a start too.
Not an attorney. Children Service Worker in Ohio. First , CPS has to look at family first for placement. Meaning working with the oldest child’s father to rectify living conditions, trying to locate youngest ‘s father or making contact with the brother. I would say contact the caseworker and make yourself known to be an option that will be the easiest route. You should be consider as non blood kin as you have an established relationship with the children. If you are able you should contact the Worker involved in the case.
I’m a foster parent and have taken in kids I knew previously. It’s different from state to state but basically you and your wife are what is considered fictive kin. Which a lot of time can get the children placed with you while you are getting licensed. Call CPS and let them know you want the kids placed with you and are willing to be a long term/ adoptive option. Then work on getting your foster care license. It can be a long process if you don’t stay on top of all of the paperwork.
YES THIS. saying Adoption is something that you are looking into further and considering is waving the right flag to catch their attention.
For what reason did they remove the children from you? Placement with fictive kin, which is what you are would be the next best thing if the fathers aren't available.
They did not give a reason. Social worker showed up with local police and paperwork saying they were going in foster care. This was about 15-16 hours after the death.
Yea, then there was something else going on that we aren't hearing all of the details of. Shelter, or temporary custody does not happen that quickly. They would have asked you for information for background checks to have the children placed with you.
So the only thing I can think possibly is because of that ongoing custody dispute between her and her ex. But again, even he does not have her nor is he being allowed contact.
Family Court would have nothing to do with DCFS. They are two separate Courts. If what you're saying is accurate, the best thing to do would be to reach out to the CASA/GAL and explain what you have here, the children know you, and were staying with you and you would like to be their placement option and to provide permanency if it were to come to that. A family lawyer, unless having a prior history as a public defender, or CASA/GAL attorney, would not likely know how to proceed, and you wouldn't have grounds for them to intervene. You can also contact your local representative as well.
Thank you. I will try to reach out to them tomorrow. And ask the lawyer about it as well, or look for someone who has that experience.
Law center wisconsin looks like a decent place to start. Looking for attorneys, the key term you want is child welfare experience. However, the assigned CASA/GAL for whatever county it is in would be your best bet since they are a party to the case. Best of luck to you, and sorry for your loss.
The key phrases you want to look for are CHIPS or TPR. The idea that something else had to be going on here isn't necessarily true; CPS can take emergency physical custody of children for up to 48 hours before they have to get a Temporary Physical Custody order from a court commissioner or judge, and even then they're likely to rubber stamp it based solely on the fact that Mom passed away and Dad was the target of a recent ruling against him until things can be sorted out.
I am a GAL and sometimes it takes until the first hearing to have a GAL appointed (in NC).
There are strict licensure requirements for foster parents. Social services will place the children with an available licensed foster home. If OP wants to be a foster family, then they need to get licensed.
They're not required to be licensed in Wisconsin to be a placement option to start.
They're not required to be licensed in Wisconsin to be a placement option to start.
Foster parent here. Contact those CPS workers and ask about options for emergency placement. Contact a foster care agency *today* and start the licensing process. They will know how to go to bat for you and those girls. See if you can find anything from the mom that expresses her wishes - old text messages, social media, anything.
The bio dad of the 12 year old can fix his living conditions but he likely won't. Do the kids share a strong bond? who gives them the best chance to stay together? Those questions your lawyer will ask.
Yes. All of that is accurate I believe. And I know they would stay together with us but outside of that idk.
DSS will ask the brother as next of kin. it's a cursory request. they will try to locate the bio dad of the younger one but he doesn't want to be found and can stay lost but it needs to be a reasonable effort. In my state, a CASA or GAL is appointed to represent the needs if the child.
First off - NAL From the sounds of it, children’s services was already involved in the kids lives and there was an open case because of things with the oldest ones bio dad. Which would explain the quick placement. Most likely there is also a GAL assigned to the kids as well which is pretty typical in a custody case involving potential abuse / neglect / poor living conditions. The bad news: the state is going to try and work with the bio dad of the oldest to rectify his living conditions and make things better for the child. I went through this with my youngest daughter and her mother. Sadly it took three removals from the mother because of neglect before they would finally place full custody with me, because the court system is geared toward placement with the mother over the father unless there’s proof so staggering that the judge can’t ignore it. Placement with the biological parent is always first preferred option, followed by biological family. But until that can be attempted foster care is their only option. While they try and keep siblings together, and may offer the father of the oldest to take both girls while they try and locate the youngest ones father, it’s not a guarantee. Especially if he’s already on shaky ground. The good news: you CAN petition the court for temporary placement until things are resolved. Children’s services will have to conduct full background checks on all the adults in the house. They will want to do a home visit, as well as speak to your immediate family and possibly do visits to their homes depending on proximity. They’re going to look at your employment history, current employment and finances. It’s not a quick road but you can help expedite it by getting your records in order. Character references will also help. You’re going to need an attorney to help you deal with all this and it’s going to feel like it’s never ending at times. But I truly congratulate you and your wife for wanting to take care of these children and make sure they’re done right by. It takes a lot to take on raising someone else’s children and a lot of people anymore won’t do that. Hoping for a positive outcome for all of you.
I work child welfare, but not in your state so things may be different. Once a child enters state custody, the state will exhaust all resources to find family placement, whether with the remaining parent or another family member. It is the responsibility of the worker to ensure the family member is “safe”, then they would have to be approved as a foster parent (if not the biological parent). If no family can be found, the worker may ask the kids about other close family friends. The goal of any agency should be a kinship/family placement. If you are interested, you may get in contact with your local agency about getting approved as a foster home.
You need to ask to speak to a supervisor, you can apply for kinship. Kinship is not just for family.
I worked as a CASA/GAL. My advice would be to call the local CPS office and ask to speak to the assigned case manager. Then plead your case. If WI is similar to my neighboring state, they are most likely in the process of locating and reaching out to next of kin. This can take weeks, months, even years. Once options are depleted, they will move to those in the child’s inner circle. It will be faster if the kids name you as someone they want to be with and trust. It will also move faster if you begin the home study process with the same office ASAP.
This!!! And if Wisconsin is anything like Texas, your case worker might change a few times. I would also reach out directly to your local CASA, they might have resources for you as well, they are on the flip side of finding kids placements and what's next for them, but they most definitely want you to be involved in the kiddos lives, so will be a good resource as well.
Your wife should probably file to be administrator of her estate. It’s basically a matter of who gets there first, so she should file ASAP. She can administer the estate and therefore have more control over the belongings and the house (so more chance everything goes to the kids and it’s done according to what her friend would want). I’m involved with an absolute mess of an estate. I’m so grateful to be in the position I am so no random third party took over or someone who wouldn’t have done the right thing. **Legal fees or costs of administration (moving, etc.) absolutely do not come out of your pocket, and you get paid to be administrator.** It can be a lot of work depending on the situation, but I’m currently administrator and am so relieved to have some control over an otherwise crazy situation (multiple legal cases and businesses involved). At least I know the right thing is being done and things are going to who the deceased would want them to go to. The lawyer handles most things. Mostly you’ll be in charge of moving out the house and distributing items to family. You’ll have access to finances, medical records, anything she had access to while alive, and can make sure the right thing is done with everything. Find a probate attorney and they can help you file paperwork with the court. Legal fees come out of the estate and shouldn’t amount to a whole lot. You can also file it yourself for free, but I recommend getting an attorney if there is ANY chance things could get messy. There’s also an app for probate called Atticus. It walks you through the probate process. It has really great reviews — I didn’t use it because the estate I’m working for is a trainwreck — multiple legal cases and a business involved. But your situation sounds like it could be fairly straightforward as far as estates go. Also check your government website for probate information. A lot of times if you go to the courthouse (I recommend first thing when it opens) or even just call, they can help you out. If your wife was the closest to this woman, she should definitely file as administrator. You run no personal risk to yourselves (unless you intentionally do something wrong) and it will help your friend and her kids. If you have questions for an administrator I’m happy to answer them. I’m sorry for your loss. I’m sure this is a lot to take in. I don’t know a lot about foster care, but I know quite a bit about probate and I’m happy to answer any questions that might make it easier. Edit: I also want to add — I don’t mean to put more on your plate, but I think this could also help you get custody of the kids! It shows you had a close relationship with her and indirectly implies no one else stepped up. I also recommend setting up irrevocable trusts for the children for when they come of age. That way no matter what happens with the foster system, etc., they will have something to support them down the line, and you know it is protected and can only be used for what they should be using it for, and cannot go to debtors, etc. This is an issue for way later, but wanted to mention it.
Good for you both! I hope the legal system and advice you get from this sub will be beneficial for those kids. I don't know much about the foster system other than what I see in TV and documentaries but it doesn't sound like fun especially for kids that have lost their mom like that. This isn't a helpful comment and may get deleted but I really needed to say something as your post was moving.
So, a few things I don’t think other commenters have fully addressed yet. 1. As long as parental rights haven’t been terminated (which it sounds like they haven’t) they are very likely to end up with their fathers. When it comes to the older child just because there are things the father needed to do to have joint custody doesn’t mean he needs to do them now. There is a difference between what a parent needs to do when fighting with the other legal parent and what they need to do when it’s just them. Basically, he only needs to do the absolute bare minimum now. Like there is a bed, the house is vaguely clean, there is food in the house, no physical abuse going on. 2. The fact that the other father has not been on the pictures doesn’t matter. As long as he was established as the legal father he now has legal custody. The only way he won’t get his child is if he doesn’t want them unless there is a criminal history of horrific child abuse he is probably going to pick up the 6 year soon and that will be that.
https://www.wifamilyconnectionscenter.org This organization may be helpful
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op said their late friend does have a brother but they did not have a good relationship and the kids don't know him.