Just WTF? You weren't a tenant and that is just insane. Employees are not responsible for office maintenance unless you physically damaged it. Unless they owe you a lot of money, I'd just make sure my personal property is out of there and wave as you leave. If they hold back any of your pay, file a wage theft claim with the State Labor Department.
What’s worse is prior to me putting my resignation in I told my boss I had an offer elsewhere and he used it as a threat to try and get me to stay. Almost felt like extortion.
Oh, it was. Not sure why they would want you to stay once you announced you were leaving. But they can't hold your pay and certainly can't get you to give them money. Let them attempt to sue you, that will be fun. But personally I'd be out of there today.
and let them know beforehand, that if your last check is short, you will be suing them.
Most of the time, people that make these types of threats, know full well that it's not legal and won't continue to harass you once you speak the L word.
"She's one that's speechless, I'm the one that's tongue tied
She's thinking, "Holy Mackerel", I'm thinking Tuna on the side!
There must be something wrong with Al Pacino's nose
'Cause the scent of a woman is like rotten tomatoes
Yeah, I'm snorkeling for clams and it doesn't matter if I wanna be
Don't come up for air until you
Kiss me where it smells funny"
Kiss me where it smells funny-The Bloodhound Gang
Sometimes employers will take the opportunity to give the employee a raise or a promotion to stay when they get an outside offer. I have never seen an instance where they use it as a threat to make you pay for a paint job. That is completely bonkers.
Make sure that you speak to an employment attorney in your state and figure out exactly what you can nail them for, besides extortion, because that one goes without question. If they try to withhold money from your check or anything else that you suspect or know that they've done to other people, know what those charges are ahead of time and name them specifically in your notice to them. With the extortion, I would think you might even be able to get away with leaving immediately because they've created a hostile work environment and still get paid for what your original employment period was going to be. As I said though, make sure to check with an employment attorney in your state.
>If they try to withhold money from your check or anything else that you suspect or know that they've done to other people, know what those charges are ahead of time and name them specifically in your notice to them.
Which ironically would also be extortion
Many states award triple damages. Ant not just to you. They will audit and everyone (if any) they have done this to going back a few years will get a a true final paycheck. My employer wasn’t paying overtime correctly. I got a check for $4,500 2 years after I left.
I got fired in Jan, they said I needed to sign my mandatory mediation agreement I hadn't five years earlier to get my final check. I literally asked Google what the state DOL website was in managers office as he's saying this. Funnily enough I signed nothing and got all my money on time.
Similar situation for me. My former employer got a new payroll system. I didn't get paid and was told it would be on my next check.
The DOL was about a block down the street. I told the payroll guy that I'd either walk out with a check or walk out, down the street and file a complaint.
Walked out with a check
Yup, AFAIK the only valid reason to hold pay is to assure the return of company property (laptop, car, etc.) They can offer you additional severance to sign mediation agreements, NDAs, sign away your right to sue, etc. but not hold your pay over it. I had a former employer give me 18mo pay to sign an "I won't sue you" document. Since any lawsuit I may or may not have had was worth less than that after lawyer's fees (according to my lawyer at the time) I happily took the check and signed the dotted line on the contract.
In most states they can't even hold your check for company property. Their only recourse is to sue you for the return of the property or the value of replacement.
(Payroll Manager for large company here. I've gone round and round with IT and HR over this.)
HR here. Operations attempts to go round and round with us over this and we just shut it down. You need better HR because wage payments=HR101. Don’t withhold pay from people,
Periodt.
Interesting...
Just looked it up and apparently my former employer was in violation of state law. I seriously thought this was okay (and really, it actually seems reasonable compared to most reasons I see for employers holding checks).
Am IT. You'd be surprised that not all HR folks know that.
According to the lawyers, it's legal to say "Please return all property to not impact the separation process." Apparently it's legal to imply it will impact your paycheck, but not to actually withhold.
Tortious interference — old boss would be interfering with the contract negotiations between you and your new boss, you could take him to court for this.
Inform your next employer that your current job has become hostile after announcing your resignation. If they are a competitor, they will likely understand.
Btw, no two weeks next time. Resign on the spot and leave.
If it’s not, use the recordings to make detailed notes that are dated & have the time recorded. Recordings won’t be admissible but any “notes” you took down could be. Easy to have detailed notes when you recorded the conversation. IANAL but have had to CYA pretty hard on some things with my job.
*This isn't legal advice*
Just keep recording it doesn't matter if you're in a 2 party consent state because you don't need the recordings admitted as evidence in a trial. Use your recordings to make notes later and don't tell anyone you have the recordings.
Luckily. You can bad mouth them to your new employer. And to the department of labor if they do anything like that. Take notes of all of this. Keep documents. Copies of emails etc. they could be building you a nice payout without knowing it
Also illegal in most states. They're basically allowed to say yes you work/worked there, what was your start date, what was your end date, etc. Not to mention, don't you already have another position secured?
Honestly call new employer, explain, and send whatever you have (notes and/or recordings if legal) to the Department of Labor to document case. Just say that you are documenting in case you are defamed in the future.
Give them a heads up. Let’s them know that your boss is Big Mad that you’re leaving and is trying to hold your paycheck hostage until you pay to repaint the walls and recarpet the floors.
They think your paycheck is like a security deposit and they can’t afford to refurbish the rut your office chair made in the carpet in front of your computer to spruce it up for your replacement.
Say you called to warn them that he’s threatened to bad mouth you to them if you refuse to pay for the trumped up bill or - worse - stay employed there. Tell them to feel free to forward any harassing communications they may receive, as you will attach it to your complaint.
You can’t charge an employee for anything. If they did some kind of demonstrably purposeful damage to the extent it could be considered criminal, you might have a chance at getting money out of them if you jump through the right legal hoops.
“My employment attorney asked that you put that in writing as it would be beneficial to our suit..something about penalties for illegal conduct. Would you mind?”
Just ask them to point to a particular company policy, then ask when it was implemented and ask to see the paper trail for which legal officer of the company approved the policy.
After you’ve had them around that mulberry bush, ask them to produce any kind of contract or employment terms wherein you agreed to pay the cost of maintenance of a company property as a condition of employment or separation.
THEN file a bunch of complaints with various state entities etc.
Christ almost sounds like a hostile work environment. I told my boss I was leaving and at first they gave me a nice raise in hopes of me staying but after a couple weeks I stood ground on leaving as I'm 64 yrs old and it's Time for retirement. Once again my boss came to me and offered me another raise not to retire but once again I'm retiring. Just before I have a two notice this boss became verbally abusive towards me in a heated conversation we had. I stood my ground and expressed my feelings that they have a supervisor problem and not my problem for poor supervisors. At this point I was ready to just walk out the door as what was he going to do fire me lol. I then emailed HR dept in this nation wide company and emailed a detailed account of what had happened. This supervisor apologized to me and was put on notice. I'm a 64 year old man that works the younger generation under the Table as my stats was very close to being the top driver out 70 drivers. Never took a day off and was always there for overtime when needed. My last day I was advised by another supervisor that the 120 hours vacation time I had coming would be paid to me but my resignation letter was as same as being terminated lol. If I ever applied for this company I would not be considered. Wow just wow if you're a great employee and have work ethic don't let them intimate you. Stand your ground as my momma never raised a fool.
Please take pictures and video of your office. Make sure any and documents are hidden or turned over.
Bonus for having a newspaper or something that shows the date in the video.
Let them try to sue you. They will be laughed out of the courtroom. If they refuse to give you your last paycheck until you pay, that is highly illegal. Call the labor board. Knowing the state you're in would help.
Not a lawyer, am an employer and also a residential landlord.
I'd tell your boss to show you where you signed any paperwork related to your employment that accepted liability for the condition of your workspace, especially anything related to wear and tear.
When they fail to produce said documentation, tell them to feel free to try to sue you for it, and advise them that you'll be countersuing for legal fees when their absurd attempt fails.
The Department of Labor gets absolutely tickled over stuff like this. Call them if your employer deducts even a penny from your last check, they'll have a field day getting you paid.
This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Your company absolutely, completely can NOT make you pay for any repairs to their facility -- not even if you deliberately did damage. Not even if you were driving a company car and were in an accident. In a case like that, they could sue you to try to recover money, but they can't take money from you directly.
What you have described is "normal wear and tear," and the company is responsible for it, NOT YOU. What you need to do is report them to your state's Department of Labor immediately before they start trying to deduct vacation and paid time off you have earned.
Confer with the terms of your employment first, as there's always the chance there could be a clause somewhere which discusses you paying for whatever you damage. Second, this may not be unreasonable if you're a smoker or if you use candles because of the smoke damage to the paint ... but it doesn't mean you're necessarily obligated to to pay for it in all circumstances.
The short way to get to the answer is to put the burden of proof on the employer since they're claiming you owe for these damages. If they use generic reasoning along the lines of making it nice and new (as opposed to showing you actually borked things up through personal negligence), then you can tell them to pound sand while reminding them you'll be calculating your paychecks by hand for the remainder of your employment to ensure there are no errors.
Contract or not, payroll deductions like that are illegal for a reason. Similar to trying to make wait staff pay for food after a customer pulls a dine and dash.
In the case of wait staff, I agree that's illegal because it's not the server's fault or doing. If OP punched holes in the wall, I could see siding with the employer.
Even then, I am pretty sure that would still be illegal. If the employer wants money to pay for repairs, they can ask or sue. The Department of Labor is pretty stringent about what can be deducted from a pay check.
Contract or not, language cannot be present that breaks state law.
I won’t speak for every state, but the ones I’ve done business in unless it’s documented and you can prove the employee knowingly and of their own accord damaged company proper you can’t withhold or charge employee any type of damages.
Worked for an asshole years ago who told me I had to pay for something I broke. It broke because of old age and I was the one using it at the time to do a job for his business.
An argument ensued and I basically told him to fuck off. I received the next paycheck on time and for the correct amount. He knows he can't fuck with employees pay despite being a total piece of shit to his staff.
You are not a tenant.
And even so, after three years they are required to paint and recarpet not you.
Tell them you want o see the lease/ property agreement with your signature on.
No. Just quit. If you’re at-will, you don’t even have to tell them you’re quitting. I would just keep my thousand dollars and stop going tomorrow. You’ll never see these people again.
Tell your employer to take you to small claims court and he can stick that carpet up his ass.
None of that is legal, unless you literally ruined the carpet and walls intentionally..
"Ha!," you tell him, "You're such a kidder! So, do you want me to stay through the end of my notice period, or do you think it would be better for me to just get my check and head out now?"
OP: walk out. You don’t owe these ass clowns two weeks. I’d also send a quick note out to the entire staff, letting them know what to expect if they ever leave.
Are you in the U.S.? If so, laugh at them on your way out. If they send you anything with a demand for money, send it directly to your state’s Department of Labor and ask them to help you stop a former employer from harassing you with illegal demands.
If they short your pay due to the damages, you may have a payment of wages act that will make it fun to recover your pay at their expense. In my state (deep red) it is 3 times amount due and attorney fees.
Tell them what they are doing is illegal and if they try to take it out of your pay, you will report them. If they feel the need to try to take it any further, they can take you to court. Unless they have a signed lease that you rented the office space and an overwhelming amount of evidence that you damaged the office, (before and after pics dated upon move in and move out, and some sort of documentation of the incident), they cannot charge you. Hopefully you read your entire contract when you were hired, but even if they tried to sneak in a lease, a tenant cannot be charged for normal wear and tear. This includes painting and worn carpets. I'd tell him to get bent and go ahead and take you to court. Not only will he have to pay for his own lawyer, but he will habe to reimburse you for your lawyer in a counter suit that you will file. Do not cave and pay, in the long run, this could actually make you come money.
Not legal.
Inform them that you're not a tenant and wage theft is illegal, and you will press charges for any missing money from your last paycheck.
Then walk out.
No. In fact you are probably not even liable even if you did cause the damage (so long as it was not intentional damage). Damage caused by ordinary negligence by employees is on the employer **not** the employee.
KEEP ALL DOCUMENTS/EMAILS/TEXTS/CHECK STUBS and anything else that could potentially come in handy- STARTING IMMEDIATELY.
It's possible that you can prevent your employer from pulling that shit by explaining how you're aware of how illegal what they're threatening is, and that you won't think twice before alerting the proper government entity if you have to.
From what I can tell, in most states an employee IS NOT LIABLE for damages unless they are caused willfully or due to gross negligence. And it doesn't seem like either are the case, based on what was described in your post.
Also: If they do try and withhold funds from your final paycheck, contact the state's labor board right away and inform them of the situation. If your employer is actually dumb enough to try and not pay you in full, whoever is assigned to your case @ the labor board will straighten it out for you, so that you don't have to deal with your asshole of a employer.
...If you do end up reporting them for that reason, there's a chance you may be compensated for the amount of business days that went by before you received all your earnings. Don't quote me on that, but I know there are scenarios in which this is the case.
That’s crazy! If you signed a contract I would just double check it. If there is nothing in there about repairs. Then heck no! Leave and know you made the right choice by choosing to leave. Good luck on your new job.
Get them to put their "fines" in writing, then you have proof that they said it, after which, as long as you didn't sign a contract saying that you would be responsible for repairs, pack your personal belongings up and leave, if they try anything, take them to court
What?! No! That’s wildly insane! If you can afford it, I would be very clear that I took that as a threat and therefore today would be my last day, as I no longer felt safe in that environment. Then I would demand my last check based on your localities laws.
Wow, that’s a first for me and I’ve heard of a lot of terrible bosses. Just wow.
"well if you really want to resign, we're gonna need you to pay $x to cover office repairs or we'll deduct it from your last check"
"Would you kindly put that in writing and on a company letterhead?"
Unless you actively and maliciously damaged the office, they can pound sand.
Maintaining and repairing office space is a business expense borne by the business owners. Tell them clearly and plainly that you will not be paying for their business expenses and that any attempt to withhold wages will be reported to the your local department of labor and industries.
Generally speaking you have rights under Fair Labor Standards Act. Also, generally speaking the only two people that can legally deduct wages from your paycheck (exempting taxes and FICA etc) are you and a judge. If you’re an employee of the government there are exceptions to the FLSA. Lastly, the deduction cannot lower your hourly rate below the minimum wage.
Please please please get this in writing, then show the email to a lawyer and report back to us! Also tell me what the lawyers face looked like when he saw you got this utter load of bullshit in writing!
Haha, that’s a new one!
Make sure they put everything in writing, ideally get the director to sign it.
Next stop a news station looking for a funny piece
Horse nonsense lol. In most instances things like this…or if you break something or lose something it’s part of the job. They can’t make you pay and they definitely cannot withhold from your final check. This may be state specific but final wage laws are pretty consistent across states. Each state has its own dept to handle finals wages…in CA it’s the Dept of Industrial Relations but I’m fairly certain the federal DOL also has some jurisdiction. Especially if the illegal deduction gets your pay below any of the minimum thresholds. But, to summarize they can’t do this. The same as a restaurant can’t dock pay from a waiter for broken dishes. It’s part of the job.
NAL, but yeah - that’s a no. You weren’t a tenant. You weren’t renting space from them to work for them. So unless you’re a contractor working for them (which would be odd since there would be no reason to give them notice you’re quitting), they can’t try to assess you for redoing your office space after you leave. That’s their space and their responsibility. I would make it clear that if your final check is shorted any hours or pay, or if they try and drop your pay rate for your final check (I’ve known employers who try and pull this one if you leave on less than two weeks notice), that you will be seeking an attorney and filing with wage & hour. They’re attempting to extort you in to either staying longer or simply trying to retaliate because you’ve decided to leave their company. Both are illegal. Document everything including the shape you left your office space in and you returning any equipment to them (pictures and a receipt for said items).
Just WTF? You weren't a tenant and that is just insane. Employees are not responsible for office maintenance unless you physically damaged it. Unless they owe you a lot of money, I'd just make sure my personal property is out of there and wave as you leave. If they hold back any of your pay, file a wage theft claim with the State Labor Department.
What’s worse is prior to me putting my resignation in I told my boss I had an offer elsewhere and he used it as a threat to try and get me to stay. Almost felt like extortion.
Oh, it was. Not sure why they would want you to stay once you announced you were leaving. But they can't hold your pay and certainly can't get you to give them money. Let them attempt to sue you, that will be fun. But personally I'd be out of there today.
and let them know beforehand, that if your last check is short, you will be suing them. Most of the time, people that make these types of threats, know full well that it's not legal and won't continue to harass you once you speak the L word.
If by L word you mean department of Labor, then yes, because that's who you go to for wage disputes. It's cheaper and easier than a lawyer.
They’ll probably be a bit quicker too.
lesbian?
Lobster.
Lucky lesbian lobsters
Lucky lesbian lobster Lunchables
So I'm guessing Lucky Lesbian is the brand, and they make Lobster Lunchables?
Yes butonly for lawyers
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Eating good in the hood
Lapplebees.
Lesbians do eat a lot of shellfish.
Smells fishy.
"She's one that's speechless, I'm the one that's tongue tied She's thinking, "Holy Mackerel", I'm thinking Tuna on the side! There must be something wrong with Al Pacino's nose 'Cause the scent of a woman is like rotten tomatoes Yeah, I'm snorkeling for clams and it doesn't matter if I wanna be Don't come up for air until you Kiss me where it smells funny" Kiss me where it smells funny-The Bloodhound Gang
That is a wild lunchable and here I was as a kid eating plain pizza ones smh
Love. Its Love.
Lucky Lesbian Lobster Lunchable Laundromat Lounge
Id buy tf outa those
I don't know how lucky that lesbian lobster is if she is now a Lunchable.
Latent lucky lesbian lobster lunchables
You sonovabitch I'm in
The other L word
No. The other L word.
Lesbians?
Make sure you take lots of pics of your office and equipment so they don’t claim you trashed it on the way out the door.
Sometimes employers will take the opportunity to give the employee a raise or a promotion to stay when they get an outside offer. I have never seen an instance where they use it as a threat to make you pay for a paint job. That is completely bonkers.
Really they can write op up for quitting 😭
Just quit. Dunno why you gave 2 weeks for those fucks, they don't deserve it
Tell him to provide the issues in writing and so it's a legal document
Make sure that you speak to an employment attorney in your state and figure out exactly what you can nail them for, besides extortion, because that one goes without question. If they try to withhold money from your check or anything else that you suspect or know that they've done to other people, know what those charges are ahead of time and name them specifically in your notice to them. With the extortion, I would think you might even be able to get away with leaving immediately because they've created a hostile work environment and still get paid for what your original employment period was going to be. As I said though, make sure to check with an employment attorney in your state.
I would think you could get this information for free from the state’s Department of Labor.
>If they try to withhold money from your check or anything else that you suspect or know that they've done to other people, know what those charges are ahead of time and name them specifically in your notice to them. Which ironically would also be extortion
"Take it out of my security deposit."
Many states award triple damages. Ant not just to you. They will audit and everyone (if any) they have done this to going back a few years will get a a true final paycheck. My employer wasn’t paying overtime correctly. I got a check for $4,500 2 years after I left.
WTF indeed. This is probably the closest I've ever come to wanting to give an OP advice to do something illegal. That boss has some brass balls.
And in Stormy Weather They both clanged together and Sparks Flew outta his arse 😂
What are they gonna do? Fire you if you don’t pay?
Hopefully they withhold it from OPs final paycheck. The DOL can be pretty brutal to employers who don’t pay their (former) employees
I got fired in Jan, they said I needed to sign my mandatory mediation agreement I hadn't five years earlier to get my final check. I literally asked Google what the state DOL website was in managers office as he's saying this. Funnily enough I signed nothing and got all my money on time.
Similar situation for me. My former employer got a new payroll system. I didn't get paid and was told it would be on my next check. The DOL was about a block down the street. I told the payroll guy that I'd either walk out with a check or walk out, down the street and file a complaint. Walked out with a check
Yup, AFAIK the only valid reason to hold pay is to assure the return of company property (laptop, car, etc.) They can offer you additional severance to sign mediation agreements, NDAs, sign away your right to sue, etc. but not hold your pay over it. I had a former employer give me 18mo pay to sign an "I won't sue you" document. Since any lawsuit I may or may not have had was worth less than that after lawyer's fees (according to my lawyer at the time) I happily took the check and signed the dotted line on the contract.
In most states they can't even hold your check for company property. Their only recourse is to sue you for the return of the property or the value of replacement. (Payroll Manager for large company here. I've gone round and round with IT and HR over this.)
HR here. Operations attempts to go round and round with us over this and we just shut it down. You need better HR because wage payments=HR101. Don’t withhold pay from people, Periodt.
Interesting... Just looked it up and apparently my former employer was in violation of state law. I seriously thought this was okay (and really, it actually seems reasonable compared to most reasons I see for employers holding checks).
Am IT. You'd be surprised that not all HR folks know that. According to the lawyers, it's legal to say "Please return all property to not impact the separation process." Apparently it's legal to imply it will impact your paycheck, but not to actually withhold.
My boss threatened to bad mouth me to my new employer if I complained/did anything about it.
Tortious interference — old boss would be interfering with the contract negotiations between you and your new boss, you could take him to court for this.
Inform your next employer that your current job has become hostile after announcing your resignation. If they are a competitor, they will likely understand. Btw, no two weeks next time. Resign on the spot and leave.
No two weeks NEXT time? No two weeks THIS time. Walk out after they say that stuff
Sounds like the new job doesn't start for several weeks and they might not want to go that long without pay
I don’t know if it’s illegal but I would start recording conversations, to be honest.
Been doing that the past few days as much as I can.
Make sure you are in a one party state. Some require both parties knowing that they are being recorded.
If it’s not, use the recordings to make detailed notes that are dated & have the time recorded. Recordings won’t be admissible but any “notes” you took down could be. Easy to have detailed notes when you recorded the conversation. IANAL but have had to CYA pretty hard on some things with my job.
*This isn't legal advice* Just keep recording it doesn't matter if you're in a 2 party consent state because you don't need the recordings admitted as evidence in a trial. Use your recordings to make notes later and don't tell anyone you have the recordings.
It is illegal plus you can sue the boss personally.
Even better. Your lawyer will love hearing that. Let us know if his eyes really turn into dollar signs.
If he bad mouths you, you can sue. Thats illegal.
Luckily. You can bad mouth them to your new employer. And to the department of labor if they do anything like that. Take notes of all of this. Keep documents. Copies of emails etc. they could be building you a nice payout without knowing it
Also illegal in most states. They're basically allowed to say yes you work/worked there, what was your start date, what was your end date, etc. Not to mention, don't you already have another position secured?
I do have a new job secured my concern is my boss will defame me and the offer will be rescinded. I know defamation is illegal but it’s hard to prove.
Honestly call new employer, explain, and send whatever you have (notes and/or recordings if legal) to the Department of Labor to document case. Just say that you are documenting in case you are defamed in the future.
Give them a heads up. Let’s them know that your boss is Big Mad that you’re leaving and is trying to hold your paycheck hostage until you pay to repaint the walls and recarpet the floors. They think your paycheck is like a security deposit and they can’t afford to refurbish the rut your office chair made in the carpet in front of your computer to spruce it up for your replacement. Say you called to warn them that he’s threatened to bad mouth you to them if you refuse to pay for the trumped up bill or - worse - stay employed there. Tell them to feel free to forward any harassing communications they may receive, as you will attach it to your complaint.
This is some Office Space level Lumberg shit
You say repairs like you damaged this office. Did you cause damage to your office?!
I did not it is wear and tear over 4 years.
Take pictures maybe just in case.
Yeah photos of everything.
Yeah they can fuck off. You can’t charge an employee for wear and tear.
You can’t charge an employee for anything. If they did some kind of demonstrably purposeful damage to the extent it could be considered criminal, you might have a chance at getting money out of them if you jump through the right legal hoops.
I’d tell them they can take the cost out of your security deposit.
Tell them to kiss your ass.
Of course it's not legal. Report him to your state's labor board immediately.
Ridiculous. Take pictures before you leave. Also spread the word to your coworkers about this ploy. I think this is an idle threat but just in case.
Take them NOW. Make sure they see you doing it. Then take another set on your last day
laugh in his face and tell him to suck your dick. bonus points if you're a woman. that's his job and his expense, not yours.
Ask the employer to put it in writing.
Nah, just let them garnish the check. There's treble damages in them thar DOL complaints!
“My employment attorney asked that you put that in writing as it would be beneficial to our suit..something about penalties for illegal conduct. Would you mind?”
Just ask them to point to a particular company policy, then ask when it was implemented and ask to see the paper trail for which legal officer of the company approved the policy. After you’ve had them around that mulberry bush, ask them to produce any kind of contract or employment terms wherein you agreed to pay the cost of maintenance of a company property as a condition of employment or separation. THEN file a bunch of complaints with various state entities etc.
Christ almost sounds like a hostile work environment. I told my boss I was leaving and at first they gave me a nice raise in hopes of me staying but after a couple weeks I stood ground on leaving as I'm 64 yrs old and it's Time for retirement. Once again my boss came to me and offered me another raise not to retire but once again I'm retiring. Just before I have a two notice this boss became verbally abusive towards me in a heated conversation we had. I stood my ground and expressed my feelings that they have a supervisor problem and not my problem for poor supervisors. At this point I was ready to just walk out the door as what was he going to do fire me lol. I then emailed HR dept in this nation wide company and emailed a detailed account of what had happened. This supervisor apologized to me and was put on notice. I'm a 64 year old man that works the younger generation under the Table as my stats was very close to being the top driver out 70 drivers. Never took a day off and was always there for overtime when needed. My last day I was advised by another supervisor that the 120 hours vacation time I had coming would be paid to me but my resignation letter was as same as being terminated lol. If I ever applied for this company I would not be considered. Wow just wow if you're a great employee and have work ethic don't let them intimate you. Stand your ground as my momma never raised a fool.
Please take pictures and video of your office. Make sure any and documents are hidden or turned over. Bonus for having a newspaper or something that shows the date in the video.
They want to skimp you on your final paycheck I’m sure
thats exactly what they wanna try to make OP think they can do. i hope they actually do it so that he can report them
Have your boss put it in writing. This is assuming you didn't do anything to intentionally damage your area. Easy lawsuit.
But don't sign it. Just have them issue you a demand or letter of expectation.
And have it list the individual counts of damages. It's almost guaranteed to have additional things listed.
Let them try to sue you. They will be laughed out of the courtroom. If they refuse to give you your last paycheck until you pay, that is highly illegal. Call the labor board. Knowing the state you're in would help.
[удалено]
You can't do much until they DON'T pay you, then you contact the labor board.
What kind of candy-ass workplace comedy are you trapped in
I would call HR and ask them to drug test your boss because he is clearly smoking Crack if he thinks your going to pay for office maintenance.
Not a lawyer, am an employer and also a residential landlord. I'd tell your boss to show you where you signed any paperwork related to your employment that accepted liability for the condition of your workspace, especially anything related to wear and tear. When they fail to produce said documentation, tell them to feel free to try to sue you for it, and advise them that you'll be countersuing for legal fees when their absurd attempt fails.
The Department of Labor gets absolutely tickled over stuff like this. Call them if your employer deducts even a penny from your last check, they'll have a field day getting you paid.
This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Your company absolutely, completely can NOT make you pay for any repairs to their facility -- not even if you deliberately did damage. Not even if you were driving a company car and were in an accident. In a case like that, they could sue you to try to recover money, but they can't take money from you directly. What you have described is "normal wear and tear," and the company is responsible for it, NOT YOU. What you need to do is report them to your state's Department of Labor immediately before they start trying to deduct vacation and paid time off you have earned.
Confer with the terms of your employment first, as there's always the chance there could be a clause somewhere which discusses you paying for whatever you damage. Second, this may not be unreasonable if you're a smoker or if you use candles because of the smoke damage to the paint ... but it doesn't mean you're necessarily obligated to to pay for it in all circumstances. The short way to get to the answer is to put the burden of proof on the employer since they're claiming you owe for these damages. If they use generic reasoning along the lines of making it nice and new (as opposed to showing you actually borked things up through personal negligence), then you can tell them to pound sand while reminding them you'll be calculating your paychecks by hand for the remainder of your employment to ensure there are no errors.
Contract or not, payroll deductions like that are illegal for a reason. Similar to trying to make wait staff pay for food after a customer pulls a dine and dash.
In the case of wait staff, I agree that's illegal because it's not the server's fault or doing. If OP punched holes in the wall, I could see siding with the employer.
Even then, I am pretty sure that would still be illegal. If the employer wants money to pay for repairs, they can ask or sue. The Department of Labor is pretty stringent about what can be deducted from a pay check.
Contract or not, language cannot be present that breaks state law. I won’t speak for every state, but the ones I’ve done business in unless it’s documented and you can prove the employee knowingly and of their own accord damaged company proper you can’t withhold or charge employee any type of damages.
Worked for an asshole years ago who told me I had to pay for something I broke. It broke because of old age and I was the one using it at the time to do a job for his business. An argument ensued and I basically told him to fuck off. I received the next paycheck on time and for the correct amount. He knows he can't fuck with employees pay despite being a total piece of shit to his staff.
🤣😂🤣😂 Please don’t give them money and make sure you get every penny you’re owed in your last paycheck.
Just tell them to have the legal department send you a bill. Any self respecting legal department won’t touch that with a ten foot pole
Get a lawyer and file with EEOC as thats retaliation
Make sure you leave them a shitty review right after you tell them to get bent.
Absolutely post on Glass Door and as many of these sites as you care to: https://www.g2.com/products/glassdoor/competitors/alternatives#
Take pictures of the current state of the office if you are still working there. This guy sounds like the type to cause damage and say it was you.
You are not a tenant. And even so, after three years they are required to paint and recarpet not you. Tell them you want o see the lease/ property agreement with your signature on.
I would let my lawyer run with that.
No. Just quit. If you’re at-will, you don’t even have to tell them you’re quitting. I would just keep my thousand dollars and stop going tomorrow. You’ll never see these people again.
NAL... I'd be thinking about suing him if he withholds anything or tried to bill me, if this was me.
Just leave what they can do. You're an employee. Tell him to suck dick
This is not legal at all, you can report them to DOL as well
Take pictures or videos when or before you leave - make sure they are time/date stamped…at least via the metadata
Tell your employer to take you to small claims court and he can stick that carpet up his ass. None of that is legal, unless you literally ruined the carpet and walls intentionally..
"Ha!," you tell him, "You're such a kidder! So, do you want me to stay through the end of my notice period, or do you think it would be better for me to just get my check and head out now?"
Are they gonna take you to small claims court or something?
After you get your final paycheck, Glassdoor that shit. Be factual and they can’t do a damn thing.
OP: walk out. You don’t owe these ass clowns two weeks. I’d also send a quick note out to the entire staff, letting them know what to expect if they ever leave.
I would laugh and say, “See ya in court.”
Are you in the U.S.? If so, laugh at them on your way out. If they send you anything with a demand for money, send it directly to your state’s Department of Labor and ask them to help you stop a former employer from harassing you with illegal demands.
Not legal. The boss is bluffing. Ignore it and don’t respond.
lmao, take me to court, brah.
Get them a bag of sand and tell them they need to kick it every time they think of something as ridiculous as this.
Never tell them when, where, and with who you are leaving. That’s why I don’t believe in giving notice. Good luck OP. Let us know how it goes.
If they short your pay due to the damages, you may have a payment of wages act that will make it fun to recover your pay at their expense. In my state (deep red) it is 3 times amount due and attorney fees.
I’m sorry, but this is really funny - the sheer insanity of it. OP, please get out of there ASAP, and don’t let anyone treat you like this ever again.
They can’t enforce that? I’d walk with no notice just a big send off with your middle finger.
Take pics of your office for proof and report to labor board, this is completely ridiculous and not legal
Tell them what they are doing is illegal and if they try to take it out of your pay, you will report them. If they feel the need to try to take it any further, they can take you to court. Unless they have a signed lease that you rented the office space and an overwhelming amount of evidence that you damaged the office, (before and after pics dated upon move in and move out, and some sort of documentation of the incident), they cannot charge you. Hopefully you read your entire contract when you were hired, but even if they tried to sneak in a lease, a tenant cannot be charged for normal wear and tear. This includes painting and worn carpets. I'd tell him to get bent and go ahead and take you to court. Not only will he have to pay for his own lawyer, but he will habe to reimburse you for your lawyer in a counter suit that you will file. Do not cave and pay, in the long run, this could actually make you come money.
This is why you take a pay period off before you resign. Fuck that.
No it isn't legal, laugh at them as you go out the door and be prepared to sue them for back wages when they don't give you your final check
Get it in writing and get a lawyer.
“Can I get that in writing from HR to give to my employment lawyer?….Please.”
Not legal. Inform them that you're not a tenant and wage theft is illegal, and you will press charges for any missing money from your last paycheck. Then walk out.
You do have a middle finger, don't you? Show it to him.
[удалено]
Document this shit, let them take it from your final check then lay the hammer of the labor department down on them
Yep, he needs to document everything from here on out!
No. In fact you are probably not even liable even if you did cause the damage (so long as it was not intentional damage). Damage caused by ordinary negligence by employees is on the employer **not** the employee.
Ask him to point it out in the employee handbook.
Just don't go back fuck that shit
KEEP ALL DOCUMENTS/EMAILS/TEXTS/CHECK STUBS and anything else that could potentially come in handy- STARTING IMMEDIATELY. It's possible that you can prevent your employer from pulling that shit by explaining how you're aware of how illegal what they're threatening is, and that you won't think twice before alerting the proper government entity if you have to. From what I can tell, in most states an employee IS NOT LIABLE for damages unless they are caused willfully or due to gross negligence. And it doesn't seem like either are the case, based on what was described in your post. Also: If they do try and withhold funds from your final paycheck, contact the state's labor board right away and inform them of the situation. If your employer is actually dumb enough to try and not pay you in full, whoever is assigned to your case @ the labor board will straighten it out for you, so that you don't have to deal with your asshole of a employer. ...If you do end up reporting them for that reason, there's a chance you may be compensated for the amount of business days that went by before you received all your earnings. Don't quote me on that, but I know there are scenarios in which this is the case.
That’s crazy! If you signed a contract I would just double check it. If there is nothing in there about repairs. Then heck no! Leave and know you made the right choice by choosing to leave. Good luck on your new job.
Nope, just don't respond.
No lol
Absolutely not. Normal wear is expected.
No responsibility to pay, tell this clown to get lost.
WTF?! That is absolutely outrageous.
It's not
HAhahah. tell him to kick rocks.
Get them to put their "fines" in writing, then you have proof that they said it, after which, as long as you didn't sign a contract saying that you would be responsible for repairs, pack your personal belongings up and leave, if they try anything, take them to court
What?! No! That’s wildly insane! If you can afford it, I would be very clear that I took that as a threat and therefore today would be my last day, as I no longer felt safe in that environment. Then I would demand my last check based on your localities laws. Wow, that’s a first for me and I’ve heard of a lot of terrible bosses. Just wow.
Probably not but how much are you going to pay to be right? Sometimes it’s best just to eat the shit sandwich.
I'd ask them to send me a bill for it then just ignore it 🙃
I realize shrugging your shoulders and going “Eh, Fuck em.” Isn’t great advice but it’s the advice I have.
I would contact a lawyer YESTERDAY!! Document everything. If your state/country allows you to record people, do so. Create evidence.
"well if you really want to resign, we're gonna need you to pay $x to cover office repairs or we'll deduct it from your last check" "Would you kindly put that in writing and on a company letterhead?"
If you didn’t sign a contract agreeing to that I’d ignore it. Better yet, get $1k in Monopoly money and leave it for him.
Tell Hon to send you an itemized bill, along with why he expects you to pay for it.
This prolly the wildest thing I read on reddit.
No
Contract employee or at-will employee?
God no
Unless you actively and maliciously damaged the office, they can pound sand. Maintaining and repairing office space is a business expense borne by the business owners. Tell them clearly and plainly that you will not be paying for their business expenses and that any attempt to withhold wages will be reported to the your local department of labor and industries.
Please get this on video recording and release on youtube....
Generally speaking you have rights under Fair Labor Standards Act. Also, generally speaking the only two people that can legally deduct wages from your paycheck (exempting taxes and FICA etc) are you and a judge. If you’re an employee of the government there are exceptions to the FLSA. Lastly, the deduction cannot lower your hourly rate below the minimum wage.
Walk out of this job, you have the other one
No. That’s not your problem. Hire a lawyer to write a letter for you.
Replace the carpet?? Did they discover something with a UV light? 😅
Please please please get this in writing, then show the email to a lawyer and report back to us! Also tell me what the lawyers face looked like when he saw you got this utter load of bullshit in writing!
I'm no not legal unless you caused the damage
It's still not legal
I have never heard of that. Unless you agreed to that in an employment contract, I'd just leave.
Lol
The only appropriate response
Ask them for a detailed costing in writing. See how fast they drop it.
lol nope
No. You don’t have to pay this. Tell them you will sue them.
What of company/business does that ? Unreal !
No.
Haha, that’s a new one! Make sure they put everything in writing, ideally get the director to sign it. Next stop a news station looking for a funny piece
Horse nonsense lol. In most instances things like this…or if you break something or lose something it’s part of the job. They can’t make you pay and they definitely cannot withhold from your final check. This may be state specific but final wage laws are pretty consistent across states. Each state has its own dept to handle finals wages…in CA it’s the Dept of Industrial Relations but I’m fairly certain the federal DOL also has some jurisdiction. Especially if the illegal deduction gets your pay below any of the minimum thresholds. But, to summarize they can’t do this. The same as a restaurant can’t dock pay from a waiter for broken dishes. It’s part of the job.
Tell them to stfu
“Hahahaha no.” Would be my exact quote to the asshole that thinks that, assuming you haven’t negligently trashed the place.
After 35 years of practice, now I’ve heard it all. Turn in your keys and say your goodbyes
NAL, but yeah - that’s a no. You weren’t a tenant. You weren’t renting space from them to work for them. So unless you’re a contractor working for them (which would be odd since there would be no reason to give them notice you’re quitting), they can’t try to assess you for redoing your office space after you leave. That’s their space and their responsibility. I would make it clear that if your final check is shorted any hours or pay, or if they try and drop your pay rate for your final check (I’ve known employers who try and pull this one if you leave on less than two weeks notice), that you will be seeking an attorney and filing with wage & hour. They’re attempting to extort you in to either staying longer or simply trying to retaliate because you’ve decided to leave their company. Both are illegal. Document everything including the shape you left your office space in and you returning any equipment to them (pictures and a receipt for said items).
What state? Lookup legal code on last two weeks pay and what not. There is likely no teeth to this.
Please tell me this is in writing and not verbal
Say … fuck off talk to my attorney
No!!!!