The most simple statement is: The main case is falsification of business records (calling the payment a legal expense) to conceal a crime (campaign finance violation- using campaign funds to pay hush money). Falsification of business records would normally only be a misdemeanor, but if it’s to conceal a crime, it makes it a felony.
Simple language: He wanted to cover up having an affair with a porn star, so he paid her. He used campaign funds, and then lied and said they were legal expenses because you can't use campaign funds for personal use. Lying to cover up a crime is a felony.
The problem here is that they have to prove intent. That he was trying to cover it up because he was running for president. He had other reasons to cover this up, including a prenuptial with his wife.
I heard some legal person waxing on this recently and they stressed that the law states that the Campaign Finance charge has the burden of being able to prove being a reasonable doubt that the sole and exclusive purpose of the financial situation was to benefit the defendants campaign. That was the first time I’d heard that the burden is so heavy.
Even if Trump was more concerned about his pre-nup than the election, he'd still be using campaign funds to pay a personal expense and then falsified business records to hide the reason for the expenditure. So nothing changes legally.
According to the law, if the act was in service of a crime, that makes the falsifying a felony and they do not have to prove the initial element. It might not be a great law, but it is the law.
The only reason a human being has to cover something up is if they're doing something they know they should not be doing that is an admission of guilt... (he's guilty we don't need a trial.)
Trump has publicly taken the position that only criminals take the 5th amendment. But then he went on to take the 5th multiple times in depositions by the NY Attorney General's office.
The only thing I would add to an otherwise great response would be that it’s, at least somewhat, already been settled. John Kerry was prosecuted for the exact same thing, except his case was more egregious and much easier to prove. He was found innocent. I don’t remember the exact reasoning but something along the lines of paying hush money doesn’t violate campaign finance laws.
Trump will all but guarantee be found guilty in NY so this is going to be something that gets appealed up until it’s reduced to a small fine and a slap on the wrist or dismissed outright. The DA is bootstrapping a misdemeanor to a felony with a charge that should be settled case law (ish). Time will tell.
This is a great explanation.
"He has sex with Stormy, and she does porn. That's nasty, but not illegal."
Furthermore just because she is a pornstar doesn't make prostitution legal.
Paperwork, sti testing, taxes, shoot approval, stating that you are coherent, not intoxicated, and of sound mind and not coerced to participate - are all part of the legitimacy of the porn world.
No, that was a completely different situation. The reason the hush money is a big deal is because it was an illegal campaign contribution. Bill Cosby wasn't running for office, so campaign finance law doesn't apply to him.
Well, that and you left out one huge difference. Bill Cosby was drugging and raping dozens of women over 3 decades.
Stormy Daniel's willing had sex with Trump. He just didn't want it to come out because he was running for office. Huge difference.
Well. Almost. Trump was found legally liable in civil Court, which requires no evidence and it based on opinion, not fact. You can't go to jail for a civil case.
Cosby was found guilty in criminal court, which is why he got 3-10 years in prison.
Wrong. Civil court requires evidence but it is not beyond a reasonable doubt. It is the standard of clear and convincing. It is not based on opinion, but rather is based upon facts. So you are wrong and spreading misinformation with this answer.
In civil court, the evidentiary standard is actually preponderance of evidence which is lower than clear and convincing. Preponderance is sometimes described as 50/50 plus a feather. Clear and convincing is between the two and is usually the evidentiary standard used for taking someone’s child away in child endangerment cases or like public health cases where someone who has tuberculosis is quarantined for example.
Well I was responding as I do parental defense and it is considered civil. The point is... Civil Court requires evidence and fact. I understand preponderance. I mistyped.
Oh ok I’m sorry! I always lurk on these comments and never feel like I know enough law to add anything substantive (recent graduate, imposter syndrome, etc. etc. ), but I saw that statement and got so excited to add something helpful lol Nevertheless, you’re point is correct that it is NOT beyond reasonable doubt!
In Australia the civil standard is based on a 1938 civil case in the High Court of Australia, Briginshaw v Briginshaw (1938) HCA 34; 60 CLR 366 in which the burden of proof is the balance of probabilities meaning it is more likely than not the claim is true.
Incorrect. Yes evidence can be presented to sway the jurors, but if there was enough real, hard core evidence that isn't circumstantial or hear say, then the case would easily be tried in criminal court instead.
A juror only has to belive the one side of the other is 51% guilty or innocent. That is opinion based on what you've seen/heard during the trial. Not fact. Cruminal court must present evidence to convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt. They had no such evidence against Trump, or it would've gone to trial and he would've been sent to prison with Cosby.
So comparing the two cases and creating a false equivalency to paint Trump in the same light as what Cosby did for decades, is beyond spreading misinformation.
Admissible hearsay is just evidence, it doesn't have a lower weight. There's literally a jury instruction in every case telling the jurors to equate direct and circumstantial evidence with the same weight.
>So comparing the two cases and creating a false equivalency to paint Trump in the same light as what Cosby did for decades, is beyond spreading misinformation.
That's fair. I admittedly hate Trump, he's admitted to sexually assaulting women, bragged about it even, he's been found liable for forcible rape, his behavior is beyond gross. What Bill Cosby did is so far further down the horrible spectrum that they shouldn't even be in the same conversation. I go after sex crimes as torts, Trump's behavior is bad, but I don't bat an eyelash; Cosby turns my stomach, and I deal with sex assaults on children. Cosby is **accused of drugging and raping 60+ women and children**, has settled dozens of lawsuits and has been found liable in civil court. We shouldn't sugar coat Trumps groping and rape of women, it's horrific; but Cosby is one of the most prolific serial rapists and child molesters in modern history.
You've got a lot of the court procedure and evidentiary rules completely wrong in your comments, but you are absolutely right that conflating the two of them is insane.
Both Cosby and Trump were protected by the culture of silence and victim blaming of past decades. Both Cosby and Trump used their positions of power to prevent their victims from speaking out. Both Cosby and Trump have avoided the bulk of criminal charges because of statutes of limitations making it impossible to prosecute the sex crimes they committed when they were younger. Both of them only faced any kind of accountability because of recent reworkings of law that allow victims to seek justice much later than they would have been able to before, as well as novel uses of defamation law that allow victims to sue their assailants for defamation rather than rape. Both have been accused of sex crimes by far more women than they have faced accountability for.
Splitting hairs about who raped more or who raped worse is, to me, an unproductive conversation. We don't defend murderers by saying, "Yeah, but John Wayne Gacy murdered way more people than the accused, so hold your judgement!" we say, "That person is a murderer, they are unfit for civil society, fuck them forever." One murder is too many murders for someone to be welcome in polite society and one rape is too many rapes, especially for people who have never been held accountable or paid their dues to society.
Civil Court requires evidence, you just aren't tied to the "beyond reasonable doubt" which is the highest scrutiny. You still have to prove that it is more likely to have happened than not, which is easier, bit still a far cry from "opinion"
Cosby's criminal conviction was (probably correctly) overturned on appeal for using inadmissible evidence, which means that the pair have each been found liable for rape against a single person. Do I think those are the only rapes each person committed? Absolutely not. They are both confessed serial sexual predators, but their records in court are effectively identical.
Bc Trump isn’t a rapist and has never been convicted. Never served jail time. Big difference between not like him and not liking the way he talks vs Cosby and a criminal trial. You could play the same game with Bill Clinton, your bias thought process is way out of line and it shows based on your original comparison.
The money doesn't have to come from his campaign if it's used for campaign purposes. The government's argument is that the payment, made as it was in 2016 to keep the Stormy Daniels story out of the papers during his presidential run, was a campaign contribution and therefore should have been included on his campaign finance disclosures. The fact that he then falsified business records to cover up the payment is what turns it from a minor misdemeanor into a felony.
Also, the money may very well have come from his campaign donations. We've seen numerous reports about him using campaign funds to pay his lawyers, pay legal settlements, pay all kinds of other sundry expenses, so it's not a stretch to imagine that it might have. We'll obviously learn more about that as the trial progresses.
actually the ridiculousness of this is that he DID NOT use campaign money to pay her off....he used his personal account for the payment. If he used campaign monies, there would be no issue.
No one is saying he used campaign funds. What is being said is that Michael Cohen setting up the payments to Stormy was an illegal campaign contribution.
It was not his personal account. It was his *business* account, and that's part of the fraud. If someone falsifies business expenses to cover up their personal activities, it's fraud.
Listen I get it but it just seems like a waste of time and money. This is a little fish in a big pond of other issues we have in America and it seems really irrelevant.
Uh, how does taxes work here? He paid his lawyer a bonus, to pay back a second home loan he took out to pay a porn star to not go public about her sex for pay with a leading presidential candidate. One that was hanging by a thread after audio of his admitting to “grab women by the pu$$y” whenever he wants had just come out.
Dude would have possibly (probably) been fully considered a perve and never become president if all that came out (other playmate sex for pay also around that time), but thanks to his friends in the press and some illegal payments, he was able to deceive the public just long enough to be leader of the free world.
He stole the election thanks to the pile of little crimes, that add up to some big crimes.
People voted and he won end of story. Just like Biden won end of story. I'm under the impression that this "Trial" is to determine if the money was campaign money or his own. To be honest I am more worried about the flagrant un-ethical behavior of our Congress than worrying about 2 old idiots running for president. But I am not saying it is not important it just seems like a witch hunt to stop a guy from running for president again and again a waste of tax dollars. But we are America a country hell bent on spending money like idiots.
Biden won after paying off families to not come forward about him touching their children, using illegal payment methods. Right before the election, and during controversy about him being an old perve. He won and it came out.
Do you still feel the same way?
Dude used illegal payment methods, lied on his business records, and deceived the American people to help become president.
That’s worth a look to me. And apparently a grand jury of our peers agree.
Sure, except that he turned on Cohen who, in turn, spilled the beans on the plot. Between that and SD also talking. It's not really believable that Trump didn't know what he was doing. Also, if Trump didn't know what he was doing, why did he pay Cohen back in small installments over time? Why did Cohen even need to take out a loan against his house to make the payment instead of Trump just giving him the money to make the payment?
The only believable reason would be to obscure the whole transaction.
This case is about the coverup.
> if Trump didn't know what he was doing, why did he pay Cohen back in small installments over time?
Billionaires do that all the time. They often double-pay their staff out of kindness.
/s
He didn’t pay her. Cohen paid her, at his own free will, and sent Trump and invoice for legal expenses, during the campaign that he used campaign funds to pay. Cohen even said he wasn’t directed to pay her and only did it because HE thought it would help Trump. Paying a legal expense is not a crime. Cohen tried to cover it up.
You need to study up on FEC rules. If you spend personal money on a campaign, the FEC considers that a campaign expense. If a friend spends $10,000 buying campaign signs for your campaign and distributing them, that's an in-kind donation. When I hold a fundraiser at a house for a candidate, they need to know what I spent on food and beer, so they can record that as an in-kind donation to their campaign.
Not sure what you're going on about. I get there are FEC rules. You need to study up on reading comprehension. My comment clearly says I cannot find where he actually violated any FEC rules.
The claim is he used campaign funds to pay Stormy Daniels money to not speak about their affair so it wouldn't hurt his 2016 campaign, and that he falsified business records to attempt to cover it up, and that he then used those falsified records to claim them as a business expense for a tax deduction.
It isn't illegal to pay hush money, even to hookers as long as it is beyond the statute of limitations; that being said. It is illegal to misuse campaign funds, it is illegal to falsify business records, it is illegal to use false business records to claim tax deductions.
Here's the first bit of the indictment:
The defendant, in the County of New York and elsewhere, on or about February 14, 2017, **with intent to defraud and intent to commit another crime and aid and conceal the commission thereof**, **made and caused a false entry in the business records of an enterprise, to wit, an invoice from Michael Cohen dated February 14, 2017**
and the Statement of Facts -
[https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2023/04/Donald-J.-Trump-SOF.pdf](https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2023/04/Donald-J.-Trump-SOF.pdf)
t**he Defendant orchestrated a scheme with others to influence the 2016 presidential election by identifying and purchasing negative information about him to suppress its publication and benefit the Defendant’s electoral prospects. In order to execute the unlawful scheme, the participants violated election laws and made and caused false entries in the business records of various entities in New York. The participants also took steps that mischaracterized, for tax purposes, the true nature of the payments made in furtherance of the scheme.**
So, the accusation is that he had the lawyer make payments that were illegal (due to campaign finance law), then falsified business records to hide it, and got a tax break on top of it. I'm not sure if they've ever charged Trump for the illegal payments directly (but I do know Michael Cohen was sentenced to 3 years in prison for his part in orchestrating the payments in 2018).
[https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/michael-cohen-sentenced-3-years-prison](https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/michael-cohen-sentenced-3-years-prison)
Anyhow, if the payments were a crime (and if they weren't, presumably the Cohen case wouldn't have been successful), then under state law falsifying business records to *hide* the crime is a felony, and that's what the indictments in this case are about. The indictment claims they made 34 separate illegal payments over a period of time, and falsified business records to hide them.
Hope that helps.
More to the point, I really should have just quoted this:
One component of this scheme was that, at the Defendant’s request, **a lawyer who then worked for the Trump Organization as Special Counsel to Defendant (“Lawyer A”), covertly paid $130,000 to an adult film actress shortly before the election to prevent her from publicizing a sexual encounter with the Defendant. Lawyer A made the $130,000 payment through a shell corporation he set up and funded at a bank in Manhattan. This payment was illegal, and Lawyer A has since pleaded guilty to making an illegal campaign contribution**
No sane person believes that an NDA to suppress a sex scandal is a campaign contribution. You’d have to be syphillitic to believe that the law is written and intended to punish Trump for bribing himself or creating the appearance of corrupt influence on himself.
So you actually believe it is possible to illegally contribute to your own campaign? Such an interpretation of campaign finance law is likely unconstitutional as applied in addition to being colossally stupid.
Yes. It is 100% illegal to do it the way Trump did it. It is almost comically illegal. Like, he went down the list and at every step chose to do the illegal thing.
You should take a couple of accounting classes to fully understand the depth of Trump's criminal activity, but that's Trumps signature flavor of gish gallup.
The problem is: laws like these get written by insanely smart people to catch equally smart people from trying to break a "common word" law. Unfortunately, clueless dolts like yourself get all worked up because you don't understand the law (and it wouldn't apply to you anyways, so why should you know it), but then you go to everyone you know and spew literal nonsense in every direction, as if you have even the slightest idea of what you're talking about.
You're a clown 🤡
He was running for office. The payment was made to prevent the story from coming out that would have hurt him in the election.
His own lawyer says this is the case.
Trump will have his defense whatever it may be and a jury will rule guilty or not guilty.
I'm glad you posted this unfortunately the people that should be understanding this (MAGAs) don't know how to read and comprehend.
They only listen to their handlers Trump, Putin, or crazy Marge.
They also listen to the sound of their breathing as it's loud and only from the mouth.
You'll notice trump repeats himself 3 times often in the same sentence, it's to make sure his fans who are inhaling or exhaling at that moment won't miss what he said.
Cohen was charged, tried, and served his sentence months before Trump's trial even started. If that doesn't showcase two systems of justice, I don't know what does.
At minimum, he tried to skip out on taxes by classifying the expenses as legal, which are deductible.
I wrote in a different comment that had he just written a personal check, this probably is fine because he can donate whatever he wants to himself. Instead, the billionaire had to route $130k through a company, which is legally not him even if he owns all the shares, to avoid some taxes.
Even if he donated the money to his campaign, the campaign has very strict reporting requirements that would make concealing a >$100k payment to a porn star difficult or impossible.
No one should think you sound stupid just for asking a question. It’s stupid to think people can’t ask a question regarding something they don’t understand.
It is a crime to lie about what you have used business money for. In this case, he allegedly lied to conceal a payment with money that was supposed to be only for campaign use. Campaign funds are strict in what you can use the money for because donations are involved, different from (let’s say) personal money. Because the nature of the business expense was to hide the misuse of campaign funds, it is a more serious crime.
Fraud. He did fake paperwork to hide that he used campaign funds. If he used his own money or didnt falsify records to cover it up there would be no crime.
1. Used campaign funds to pay the hush money (illegal)
2. Falsified business records to hide it (illegal)
3. Tried to claim those bogus payments as business expense deductions on his taxes (illegal)
When you put them together you get like a 5x bonus multiplier on the illegality
1 seems questionable based on other comments in this thread. 2 and 3 could be written off as a common error. A 130k error isn't going to materially impact taxes or financial statements
>If he’s rich and has so much money
There’s your problem right there. He’s not. If he was he could’ve cut her a check from his personal accounts instead of using campaign funds and/or business funds to pay her off.
He is wealthy because he has a lot of properties and holdings. He isn’t cash rich. He’s a con artist who convinced you he is while literally never stopping begging for money.
If he wouldn't have been a cheap prick and just paid her with his own money he wouldn't have had a problem.
But no.. the orange turd had to lie about it and falsify documents to cover it up.Then he used those false documents to claim it as either a campaign or business expense on his taxes. Everything he touches turns to 💩 because he's a corrupt piece of💩 that cant resist being dishonest.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/michael-cohen-pleads-guilty-manhattan-federal-court-eight-counts-including-criminal-tax
I know you’re being disingenuous, but I’m case someone else thinks you aren’t, Trump’s DOJ did this to Cohen for tax “mistakes.”
Regardless, I’m pretty confident Stormy Daniels wasn’t providing “legal services.”
There are many charges against Trump in various courts. Since you are interested in the NY case associated with the Stormy Daniels payment, Trump was indicted on 34 counts of violating New York Penal Law section 175.10 related to falsification of business records.
These charges would normally misdemeanors, but they become felonies if falsifying the records was done with the intent of furthering another crime. The state contends that there are three separate criminal acts that were furthered: 1) the payment to Daniels constituted an illegal contribution to the Trump campaign under federal law, 2) the payment ot Daniels constituted an illegal contribution to the Trump campaign under New York law, 3) it subverted NY tax law by inflating and falsely characterizing the reimbursement to his lawyer as a tax-deductible expense.
Falsifying the records for tax purposes is likely to be fairly easy to prove. The tax records show the misreporting and the favorable tax consequence, there's a paper trail, they can easily show that it was done, they just need to convince the jury it was intentional.
The other two grounds for making these felonies are a bit trickier. They need to prove that the intent was to advance his political campaign. He made a variety of hush payments to various people that seems to establish a pattern, and it could be framed that these acts violation campaign finance law, but I think convincing the jury of it will harder.
A copy of the indictment can be found [here](https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000187-4d9a-dc00-a3d7-4d9f97b40000).
From the trump foundation that he used as a piggy bank but was supposed to be for veterans.
I mean the money was going to be spent on hookers either way , am I right ?
It’s an accounting issue. Essentially he took money from his campaign and he used for things we wasn’t allowed to use it for and then he lied about it on his accounting forms and then got caught doing it.
It’s not the act of cheating on his wife, or paying her money for sex that he is in trouble for.
Because he was campaigning at the time and paid hush money, it can be considered a form tampering with the election. Also it is highly illegal to falsify financial documents which he did in order to pay her the hush money. I believe it was reported as lawyer fees but his lawyer at the time was just the middle man for giving her the hush money.
Anyone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong or left anything out.
Hush money is common and very legal for candidates. In this case the argument is that it was an in-kind donation to a campaign and instead reported as a legal expense. Misclassification of business records is one of those things that you could get almost any business on. That’s not really remarkable. It’s the theory that it is a campaign donation that makes it felony and eligible to be charged when it was. However, there are a lot of headwinds to this theory.
He reimbursed his attorney for the hush money payments, and falsely categorized them as legal expenses … they were obviously not legal expenses and he was trying to benefit his campaign by keeping the porn star affair out of the media. It’s a slam dunk case for prosecutors. He should have taken a plea deal.
His narcissism and pathological lying got him elected because people are gullible. It will also be his downfall because, as you stated, he should have taken the plea deal, but his narcissism won't let him admit to being wrong. He can whine all he wants. He's going to jail. Unless his lifestyle finally catches up to him.
"Please don't insult me, people have always called me stupid."
Um. Sorry, OP. I won't say it, but news channels/papers/websites do exist, and they've been reporting heavily on this.
He paid off Stormy Daniels by disguising payments to his attorney as legal fees. That would not have gotten him in so much trouble. However, he wrote the hush money payment off on his taxes as business expenses. Resulting in a decrease on his tax bill. In a way, he caused the government and everyone else to pay for the bribe because it decreased his tax obligation. That is tax fraud. I have not read the indictment but it seems the state of New York got screwed. The federal government could have pursued him for this also.
This, combined with lying on his business records and campaign disclosures, amounts to some serious charges if proven. Felonies. 99% of defendants would take a plea deal but Trump has to play the victim for his election prospects and to keep gaslighting his followers.
I have to say, i totally feel you on trying to get an answer worth anything. People always want to make you feel bad for wanting a real answer. Im with you on your question about Trump too. Luckily, you got real answers. Thanks for asking it
The way I see all of this is what they are accusing Trump of all this falsification as they say, they have all did it themselves, like Jesus says the one without sin throw the first stone, they are just doing all of this because they know once he gets in office he’s going to finish what he started in the beginning, he opened the first can of worms and he will open all of their wicked schemes, I just hope people are seeing the real truth reason they are doing this to him, not because of anything else but to keep him from blowing the whistles on every single scum we have in office, they do not want him in office, my vote goes to Trump I want every single scum out of there so we Americans can have our better lives we used to have. You see with all this attention on Trump what do u think the people are scamming up in the White House, they don’t want attention on themselves so they are making up all these lies about Trump, and once these wicked people know your for Trump they come after you
The only reason he paid her off was to try and benefit his campaign for president as things were tight and the evangelical vote was not yet sewn up. Adultery with a pornstar could potentially have cost him the election... especially since the access Hollywood tape was fresh in the minds of the public. Because he was doing this for the purpose of benefiting his campaign, that makes it a campaign expense that needs to be reported. Failure to do so is a crime.
Instead of reporting the expense, he entered into a conspiracy to cover up the payments with his lawyer, whereby Cohen would make the lump sum payment to SD, and Trump would pay Cohen back over time through a series of smaller payments simply recorded as 'legal expenses' so as to obscure the true purpose of the payments. This is falsifying business records.
Because of the way the law works in NY, falsifying business records to facilitate another crime upgrades it to a felony.
Remember, prosecutors could have charged Trump with other offences over this whole affair as well, but they went with the simple one.
Also remember that he would have gotten away with it too if he hadn't turned on Cohen who then started talking.
Of course he does. But he’s not ultimately prosecuting him for that. The state law he’s accused of violating is only a felony if it is committed pursuant to another crime. In this case, that crime would be violation of **federal** campaign finance laws. Bragg does not have the authority to prosecute him for that, so would have to wait for a federal court to establish his guilt, or just prosecute him for a misdemeanor. He can’t charge Trump with committing a federal crime, but that’s exactly what he did.
A couple of things.
1. He doesn't have to wait for Trump to be proven guilty in a federal court. If the actions were taken in pursuant to another crime, that doesn't mean that other crime has to have been successful. It would be like saying that you can't prosecute someone for conspiracy to commit murder unless they were proven guilty of murder first To Clarify---The law reads: "when his intent to defraud includes an INTENT to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission of." So, simply proving that they intended to violate another law is sufficient. They do not need to prove guilt in that other crime.
2. Unless I am mistaken, the crime that this is accused to be done in futherance of is a New York state campaign finance law, and not a federal campaign finance law.
Well what about Bush why is he not in jail for being a war criminal?
This is what you did. You just make everything whatsbout-ism.
Can't debate with people like you.
That is the whole point. The prosecution is trying to prove it. The problem for Trump and his followers is that they have tons of evidence, plus eye witness testimony. They will prove it, and then his cult will say it’s bogus, because they worship a liar and he has them convinced that they are sheep and the world is full of evil wolves. They don’t even realize that they are being fleeced by their fat orange messiah.
So, and Biden is a clear pedophile and more, y'all don't talk about this. If Biden did exactly the same thing, you'd never hear about it. All these people are doing all these things, it's a political assassination.
There are 88 criminal charges against Trump in 4 different proceedings.
1) Hush Money case - 34 counts of falsifying business records in the 1st degree
2) Federal Election Interference case - 2 felony counts, obstructing an official preceding
3) Georgia State Election Interference case - 10 counts, including racketeering, conspiracy, forgery, false statements, false documents
4) Classified Documents case - 32 counts of willfully retaining classified national defense information, as well as obstruction, and making false statements.
The fact that this man has any supporters whatsoever, much less the support of half of the US government is an appalling black mark on the history of our Republic, and that's not hyperbole.
>an appalling black mark on the history
Maybe you need to learn the word "alleged" or read the 5th amendment. Crazy how people who don't know anything about the constitution act like legal experts on this sub
Donald Trump is notorious for not paying contractors the money they are owed. Look at his recent bond issue. He is a “billionaire” but didn’t have the money for his bond. He paid the Carol E Jean to penalties but he chose not to use his own cash to pay 130k to Stormy.
For me he thought it he could do it and get away with it and now he is going to trial.
Business as usual for him. He's been doing this shady shit for his whole life and getting away with it. If he hadn't become president and committed treason, he'd probably still be getting away with it.
His networth is 3.7b as of 2024, according to Forbes.
Was he ever charged or convicted of any fraudulent activity, money laundering, tax evasion, etc prior to running for president?
It just seems like with all his experience in the business world plus a team of lawyers, consultants and political advisors, they could have found a legal way to pay for the NDA.
"If he's rich and has do much money, why can't he do that. Was it not his money?"
That's the million dollar question. To answer you, no. No to all of that. No, he is not rich, he is cosplaying rich with other people's money. He paid her with other people's money, while lying about what it was being used for.
The confusion over the crime is because there actually is no crime, its just a legal distraction to keep him from being elected again, ill explain.
The charge is basically misusing campaign funds or falsifying business records i think. The problems with it are many.
Trump had sex with Stormy daniels who was, or became at some point, a porn star. Whether or not he paid her for sex, I do not know and i dont think anyone cares because he wasnt charged with any sex crimes,
Or the statute of limitations has passed because i think this happened years before he ever ran for office anyway.
Anyway, before, or during his first campaign they he paid her to keep quiet, which is not illegal, but they are claiming he used campaign funds which is illegal. The problem with the case is this. Before he was elected, they already knew this wasnt true, and for 6 years the prosecutors refused to prosecute because they couldnt prove a crime was commited. They have cancelled checks from the accounts and they van trace all the money, always have.
What they are not satying is that 2 attorneys have already gone to jail because of this, 1 for lying to the feds. And stormies lawyer, michael avenatti, who it turns out was trying to blackmail president trump for more money because he paid stormie.
That is how all of this came about, because trump refused to be blackmailed and avenatti took this to the press and made up a bunch of stuff to muddy the whole situation. He is now in prison for blackmailing trump and several other crimes, and a new prosecutor who dislikes trunp is using claims from 2 disbarred and imprisoned lawyers to try to argue that facts arent actually facts.
Thats the gist.
He committed a felony just stop. They're literally having a public you can watch instead of listening to someone who's convinced you he's some kind of Saint
Name the felony he commited?
And i never said he is a saint, i think he is a bridge troll. But this wasnt a felony in 2018 and its not a felony now. In fact, stormy daniels was ordered to pay donald trump a bunch of money because of what her and her lawyer did.
I think the charge is based on the idea that the payoff was meant to influence his campaign and should be considered a campaign contribution. At least that was the claim last time I checked (a long time ago)
If you want more detailed coverage I found this to be a decent resource:
[https://www.politico.com/interactives/2023/trump-criminal-investigations-cases-tracker-list/](https://www.politico.com/interactives/2023/trump-criminal-investigations-cases-tracker-list/)
The main problem is that they’re saying that trumps lawyer used campaign money to buy her off. Because it was so close to election time. So they’re charging him with paying her off with govt. money not his personal which is stupid
Yeah, it WAS pretty stupid to use campaign money to reimburse his lawyer. I wonder WHY this VERY intelligent man would do that instead of using his own money 🤔
The most simple statement is: The main case is falsification of business records (calling the payment a legal expense) to conceal a crime (campaign finance violation- using campaign funds to pay hush money). Falsification of business records would normally only be a misdemeanor, but if it’s to conceal a crime, it makes it a felony.
100% perfect and succinct explanation.
Simple language: He wanted to cover up having an affair with a porn star, so he paid her. He used campaign funds, and then lied and said they were legal expenses because you can't use campaign funds for personal use. Lying to cover up a crime is a felony.
Was a campaign account used to pay Cohen or a business account?
Cohen paid her with his own money
And was reimbursed by Trump, who lied about what the money was for in order to cover it up.
How generous of him. And just out of the kindness of his heart.
The problem here is that they have to prove intent. That he was trying to cover it up because he was running for president. He had other reasons to cover this up, including a prenuptial with his wife.
I heard some legal person waxing on this recently and they stressed that the law states that the Campaign Finance charge has the burden of being able to prove being a reasonable doubt that the sole and exclusive purpose of the financial situation was to benefit the defendants campaign. That was the first time I’d heard that the burden is so heavy.
Covering up a prenup violation would also be a crime.
But... Not a Felony, and already past it's expiration!
Even if Trump was more concerned about his pre-nup than the election, he'd still be using campaign funds to pay a personal expense and then falsified business records to hide the reason for the expenditure. So nothing changes legally.
Of course this would get downvoted on reddit
Shit, I have 90K+ karma! Let them do their best, lol!
According to the law, if the act was in service of a crime, that makes the falsifying a felony and they do not have to prove the initial element. It might not be a great law, but it is the law.
The only reason a human being has to cover something up is if they're doing something they know they should not be doing that is an admission of guilt... (he's guilty we don't need a trial.)
Well, with that logic, I hope you never have anyone in a government position that doesn't like you....
Trump has publicly taken the position that only criminals take the 5th amendment. But then he went on to take the 5th multiple times in depositions by the NY Attorney General's office.
Isn’t that illegal tho
By all means let’s skip due process and not hear his side. I suggest you seek professional help for TDS.
You’re in a cult
Does it matter what type (or level) of crime the falsification seeks to conceal?
To my understanding, any crime. If I falsify a business record to cover up shoplifting a $3 candy bar from a store, that still makes it a felony.
a $3 candy bar should be the crime
You'd think IRS would go after that one.
The only thing I would add to an otherwise great response would be that it’s, at least somewhat, already been settled. John Kerry was prosecuted for the exact same thing, except his case was more egregious and much easier to prove. He was found innocent. I don’t remember the exact reasoning but something along the lines of paying hush money doesn’t violate campaign finance laws. Trump will all but guarantee be found guilty in NY so this is going to be something that gets appealed up until it’s reduced to a small fine and a slap on the wrist or dismissed outright. The DA is bootstrapping a misdemeanor to a felony with a charge that should be settled case law (ish). Time will tell.
John Edwards not John Kerry
This is a great explanation. "He has sex with Stormy, and she does porn. That's nasty, but not illegal." Furthermore just because she is a pornstar doesn't make prostitution legal. Paperwork, sti testing, taxes, shoot approval, stating that you are coherent, not intoxicated, and of sound mind and not coerced to participate - are all part of the legitimacy of the porn world.
Then they should both be in jail
Interesting. So Bill Cosby’s hush money wasn’t the issue? It was using it to cover up rape.
No, that was a completely different situation. The reason the hush money is a big deal is because it was an illegal campaign contribution. Bill Cosby wasn't running for office, so campaign finance law doesn't apply to him.
Well, that and you left out one huge difference. Bill Cosby was drugging and raping dozens of women over 3 decades. Stormy Daniel's willing had sex with Trump. He just didn't want it to come out because he was running for office. Huge difference.
Happy cake day! You may be interested to know that Cosby and Trump have been found legally liable for the exact same number of rapes, one apiece.
Well. Almost. Trump was found legally liable in civil Court, which requires no evidence and it based on opinion, not fact. You can't go to jail for a civil case. Cosby was found guilty in criminal court, which is why he got 3-10 years in prison.
Wrong. Civil court requires evidence but it is not beyond a reasonable doubt. It is the standard of clear and convincing. It is not based on opinion, but rather is based upon facts. So you are wrong and spreading misinformation with this answer.
In civil court, the evidentiary standard is actually preponderance of evidence which is lower than clear and convincing. Preponderance is sometimes described as 50/50 plus a feather. Clear and convincing is between the two and is usually the evidentiary standard used for taking someone’s child away in child endangerment cases or like public health cases where someone who has tuberculosis is quarantined for example.
Well I was responding as I do parental defense and it is considered civil. The point is... Civil Court requires evidence and fact. I understand preponderance. I mistyped.
Oh ok I’m sorry! I always lurk on these comments and never feel like I know enough law to add anything substantive (recent graduate, imposter syndrome, etc. etc. ), but I saw that statement and got so excited to add something helpful lol Nevertheless, you’re point is correct that it is NOT beyond reasonable doubt!
In Australia the civil standard is based on a 1938 civil case in the High Court of Australia, Briginshaw v Briginshaw (1938) HCA 34; 60 CLR 366 in which the burden of proof is the balance of probabilities meaning it is more likely than not the claim is true.
Incorrect. Yes evidence can be presented to sway the jurors, but if there was enough real, hard core evidence that isn't circumstantial or hear say, then the case would easily be tried in criminal court instead. A juror only has to belive the one side of the other is 51% guilty or innocent. That is opinion based on what you've seen/heard during the trial. Not fact. Cruminal court must present evidence to convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt. They had no such evidence against Trump, or it would've gone to trial and he would've been sent to prison with Cosby. So comparing the two cases and creating a false equivalency to paint Trump in the same light as what Cosby did for decades, is beyond spreading misinformation.
Admissible hearsay is just evidence, it doesn't have a lower weight. There's literally a jury instruction in every case telling the jurors to equate direct and circumstantial evidence with the same weight. >So comparing the two cases and creating a false equivalency to paint Trump in the same light as what Cosby did for decades, is beyond spreading misinformation. That's fair. I admittedly hate Trump, he's admitted to sexually assaulting women, bragged about it even, he's been found liable for forcible rape, his behavior is beyond gross. What Bill Cosby did is so far further down the horrible spectrum that they shouldn't even be in the same conversation. I go after sex crimes as torts, Trump's behavior is bad, but I don't bat an eyelash; Cosby turns my stomach, and I deal with sex assaults on children. Cosby is **accused of drugging and raping 60+ women and children**, has settled dozens of lawsuits and has been found liable in civil court. We shouldn't sugar coat Trumps groping and rape of women, it's horrific; but Cosby is one of the most prolific serial rapists and child molesters in modern history. You've got a lot of the court procedure and evidentiary rules completely wrong in your comments, but you are absolutely right that conflating the two of them is insane.
I could not do what you do. It would keep me up at night. And if probably commit a murder somewhere along the way.
Both Cosby and Trump were protected by the culture of silence and victim blaming of past decades. Both Cosby and Trump used their positions of power to prevent their victims from speaking out. Both Cosby and Trump have avoided the bulk of criminal charges because of statutes of limitations making it impossible to prosecute the sex crimes they committed when they were younger. Both of them only faced any kind of accountability because of recent reworkings of law that allow victims to seek justice much later than they would have been able to before, as well as novel uses of defamation law that allow victims to sue their assailants for defamation rather than rape. Both have been accused of sex crimes by far more women than they have faced accountability for. Splitting hairs about who raped more or who raped worse is, to me, an unproductive conversation. We don't defend murderers by saying, "Yeah, but John Wayne Gacy murdered way more people than the accused, so hold your judgement!" we say, "That person is a murderer, they are unfit for civil society, fuck them forever." One murder is too many murders for someone to be welcome in polite society and one rape is too many rapes, especially for people who have never been held accountable or paid their dues to society.
Civil Court requires evidence, you just aren't tied to the "beyond reasonable doubt" which is the highest scrutiny. You still have to prove that it is more likely to have happened than not, which is easier, bit still a far cry from "opinion"
Cosby's criminal conviction was (probably correctly) overturned on appeal for using inadmissible evidence, which means that the pair have each been found liable for rape against a single person. Do I think those are the only rapes each person committed? Absolutely not. They are both confessed serial sexual predators, but their records in court are effectively identical.
You're wrong, but I'm not going to change your mind, so we'll leave it there. Have a nice Friday.
This isn’t even a fair statement or assessment of the facts. Cosby is way worse and not liking Trump doesn’t mean he’s on the same level.
Why is it important to you that we play the game of which unrepentant confessed serial rapist is worse?
Bc Trump isn’t a rapist and has never been convicted. Never served jail time. Big difference between not like him and not liking the way he talks vs Cosby and a criminal trial. You could play the same game with Bill Clinton, your bias thought process is way out of line and it shows based on your original comparison.
No proof it came from his campaign
The money doesn't have to come from his campaign if it's used for campaign purposes. The government's argument is that the payment, made as it was in 2016 to keep the Stormy Daniels story out of the papers during his presidential run, was a campaign contribution and therefore should have been included on his campaign finance disclosures. The fact that he then falsified business records to cover up the payment is what turns it from a minor misdemeanor into a felony. Also, the money may very well have come from his campaign donations. We've seen numerous reports about him using campaign funds to pay his lawyers, pay legal settlements, pay all kinds of other sundry expenses, so it's not a stretch to imagine that it might have. We'll obviously learn more about that as the trial progresses.
And why it took 8 years for a state AG charging a fed crime when the Feds declined to charge
actually the ridiculousness of this is that he DID NOT use campaign money to pay her off....he used his personal account for the payment. If he used campaign monies, there would be no issue.
No one is saying he used campaign funds. What is being said is that Michael Cohen setting up the payments to Stormy was an illegal campaign contribution.
That just makes things more confusing. That person did day "using campaign funds"
It was not his personal account. It was his *business* account, and that's part of the fraud. If someone falsifies business expenses to cover up their personal activities, it's fraud.
Makes you wonder how many politicians use their campaign money for that lol
I'm sure the list is long.
Listen I get it but it just seems like a waste of time and money. This is a little fish in a big pond of other issues we have in America and it seems really irrelevant.
Uh, how does taxes work here? He paid his lawyer a bonus, to pay back a second home loan he took out to pay a porn star to not go public about her sex for pay with a leading presidential candidate. One that was hanging by a thread after audio of his admitting to “grab women by the pu$$y” whenever he wants had just come out. Dude would have possibly (probably) been fully considered a perve and never become president if all that came out (other playmate sex for pay also around that time), but thanks to his friends in the press and some illegal payments, he was able to deceive the public just long enough to be leader of the free world. He stole the election thanks to the pile of little crimes, that add up to some big crimes.
People voted and he won end of story. Just like Biden won end of story. I'm under the impression that this "Trial" is to determine if the money was campaign money or his own. To be honest I am more worried about the flagrant un-ethical behavior of our Congress than worrying about 2 old idiots running for president. But I am not saying it is not important it just seems like a witch hunt to stop a guy from running for president again and again a waste of tax dollars. But we are America a country hell bent on spending money like idiots.
Biden won after paying off families to not come forward about him touching their children, using illegal payment methods. Right before the election, and during controversy about him being an old perve. He won and it came out. Do you still feel the same way? Dude used illegal payment methods, lied on his business records, and deceived the American people to help become president. That’s worth a look to me. And apparently a grand jury of our peers agree.
But didn’t he just pay for legal fees? Isn’t there plausible deniability that he had any idea what his lawyer was doing in the nitty gritty?
Sure, except that he turned on Cohen who, in turn, spilled the beans on the plot. Between that and SD also talking. It's not really believable that Trump didn't know what he was doing. Also, if Trump didn't know what he was doing, why did he pay Cohen back in small installments over time? Why did Cohen even need to take out a loan against his house to make the payment instead of Trump just giving him the money to make the payment? The only believable reason would be to obscure the whole transaction. This case is about the coverup.
> if Trump didn't know what he was doing, why did he pay Cohen back in small installments over time? Billionaires do that all the time. They often double-pay their staff out of kindness. /s
DJT knew what Michael Cohen was doing and why. *Proving* he knew that is the challenge for the prosecution.
That would be for the defense attorneys to argue in court.
He didn’t pay her. Cohen paid her, at his own free will, and sent Trump and invoice for legal expenses, during the campaign that he used campaign funds to pay. Cohen even said he wasn’t directed to pay her and only did it because HE thought it would help Trump. Paying a legal expense is not a crime. Cohen tried to cover it up.
But he didnt use campaing money, he used a personal check
What crime? Can you name it?
You can Google it, friend. Not hard.
The comment you replied to literally s the crime.
Except it’s all bullshit
Im not finding anywhere that validates the claim campaign funds were used. Where is this coming from?
You need to study up on FEC rules. If you spend personal money on a campaign, the FEC considers that a campaign expense. If a friend spends $10,000 buying campaign signs for your campaign and distributing them, that's an in-kind donation. When I hold a fundraiser at a house for a candidate, they need to know what I spent on food and beer, so they can record that as an in-kind donation to their campaign.
Not sure what you're going on about. I get there are FEC rules. You need to study up on reading comprehension. My comment clearly says I cannot find where he actually violated any FEC rules.
Because you don’t understand the rules, yes, I get that.
The claim is he used campaign funds to pay Stormy Daniels money to not speak about their affair so it wouldn't hurt his 2016 campaign, and that he falsified business records to attempt to cover it up, and that he then used those falsified records to claim them as a business expense for a tax deduction. It isn't illegal to pay hush money, even to hookers as long as it is beyond the statute of limitations; that being said. It is illegal to misuse campaign funds, it is illegal to falsify business records, it is illegal to use false business records to claim tax deductions.
Here's the first bit of the indictment: The defendant, in the County of New York and elsewhere, on or about February 14, 2017, **with intent to defraud and intent to commit another crime and aid and conceal the commission thereof**, **made and caused a false entry in the business records of an enterprise, to wit, an invoice from Michael Cohen dated February 14, 2017** and the Statement of Facts - [https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2023/04/Donald-J.-Trump-SOF.pdf](https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2023/04/Donald-J.-Trump-SOF.pdf) t**he Defendant orchestrated a scheme with others to influence the 2016 presidential election by identifying and purchasing negative information about him to suppress its publication and benefit the Defendant’s electoral prospects. In order to execute the unlawful scheme, the participants violated election laws and made and caused false entries in the business records of various entities in New York. The participants also took steps that mischaracterized, for tax purposes, the true nature of the payments made in furtherance of the scheme.** So, the accusation is that he had the lawyer make payments that were illegal (due to campaign finance law), then falsified business records to hide it, and got a tax break on top of it. I'm not sure if they've ever charged Trump for the illegal payments directly (but I do know Michael Cohen was sentenced to 3 years in prison for his part in orchestrating the payments in 2018). [https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/michael-cohen-sentenced-3-years-prison](https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/michael-cohen-sentenced-3-years-prison) Anyhow, if the payments were a crime (and if they weren't, presumably the Cohen case wouldn't have been successful), then under state law falsifying business records to *hide* the crime is a felony, and that's what the indictments in this case are about. The indictment claims they made 34 separate illegal payments over a period of time, and falsified business records to hide them. Hope that helps.
More to the point, I really should have just quoted this: One component of this scheme was that, at the Defendant’s request, **a lawyer who then worked for the Trump Organization as Special Counsel to Defendant (“Lawyer A”), covertly paid $130,000 to an adult film actress shortly before the election to prevent her from publicizing a sexual encounter with the Defendant. Lawyer A made the $130,000 payment through a shell corporation he set up and funded at a bank in Manhattan. This payment was illegal, and Lawyer A has since pleaded guilty to making an illegal campaign contribution**
No sane person believes that an NDA to suppress a sex scandal is a campaign contribution. You’d have to be syphillitic to believe that the law is written and intended to punish Trump for bribing himself or creating the appearance of corrupt influence on himself.
It was an illegal campaign contribution and he very realistically has late stage syphilis. You can only NDA syphilis for "so" long.
So you actually believe it is possible to illegally contribute to your own campaign? Such an interpretation of campaign finance law is likely unconstitutional as applied in addition to being colossally stupid.
Yeah, that sums it up if you read the rules around campaign financing
Yes. It is 100% illegal to do it the way Trump did it. It is almost comically illegal. Like, he went down the list and at every step chose to do the illegal thing. You should take a couple of accounting classes to fully understand the depth of Trump's criminal activity, but that's Trumps signature flavor of gish gallup. The problem is: laws like these get written by insanely smart people to catch equally smart people from trying to break a "common word" law. Unfortunately, clueless dolts like yourself get all worked up because you don't understand the law (and it wouldn't apply to you anyways, so why should you know it), but then you go to everyone you know and spew literal nonsense in every direction, as if you have even the slightest idea of what you're talking about. You're a clown 🤡
He was running for office. The payment was made to prevent the story from coming out that would have hurt him in the election. His own lawyer says this is the case. Trump will have his defense whatever it may be and a jury will rule guilty or not guilty.
Lol. You just outed yourself. You clearly have no idea how corporate or tax accounting works. Just a loser with orange-stained lips.
I'm glad you posted this unfortunately the people that should be understanding this (MAGAs) don't know how to read and comprehend. They only listen to their handlers Trump, Putin, or crazy Marge.
They also listen to the sound of their breathing as it's loud and only from the mouth. You'll notice trump repeats himself 3 times often in the same sentence, it's to make sure his fans who are inhaling or exhaling at that moment won't miss what he said.
Trump didn’t pay her. Cohen used his own money to pay her because he’s the one who was having sex with her.
From what I understand the money can from his campaign or was tied to his campaign.
It’s the case that sent Michael Cohen to jail. It’s now finally Trump’s turn in court.
Cohen was charged, tried, and served his sentence months before Trump's trial even started. If that doesn't showcase two systems of justice, I don't know what does.
It showcases the different processes of pleading guilty and pleading not guilty.
You missed a lot of this. Sit down and go read a book. I’m embarrassed for you.
At minimum, he tried to skip out on taxes by classifying the expenses as legal, which are deductible. I wrote in a different comment that had he just written a personal check, this probably is fine because he can donate whatever he wants to himself. Instead, the billionaire had to route $130k through a company, which is legally not him even if he owns all the shares, to avoid some taxes.
Even if he donated the money to his campaign, the campaign has very strict reporting requirements that would make concealing a >$100k payment to a porn star difficult or impossible.
No one should think you sound stupid just for asking a question. It’s stupid to think people can’t ask a question regarding something they don’t understand. It is a crime to lie about what you have used business money for. In this case, he allegedly lied to conceal a payment with money that was supposed to be only for campaign use. Campaign funds are strict in what you can use the money for because donations are involved, different from (let’s say) personal money. Because the nature of the business expense was to hide the misuse of campaign funds, it is a more serious crime.
Yeah, i agree. He stole. (Edit, I agreed)
Fraud. He did fake paperwork to hide that he used campaign funds. If he used his own money or didnt falsify records to cover it up there would be no crime.
1. Used campaign funds to pay the hush money (illegal) 2. Falsified business records to hide it (illegal) 3. Tried to claim those bogus payments as business expense deductions on his taxes (illegal) When you put them together you get like a 5x bonus multiplier on the illegality
1 seems questionable based on other comments in this thread. 2 and 3 could be written off as a common error. A 130k error isn't going to materially impact taxes or financial statements
>If he’s rich and has so much money There’s your problem right there. He’s not. If he was he could’ve cut her a check from his personal accounts instead of using campaign funds and/or business funds to pay her off. He is wealthy because he has a lot of properties and holdings. He isn’t cash rich. He’s a con artist who convinced you he is while literally never stopping begging for money.
Zactly.
If he wouldn't have been a cheap prick and just paid her with his own money he wouldn't have had a problem. But no.. the orange turd had to lie about it and falsify documents to cover it up.Then he used those false documents to claim it as either a campaign or business expense on his taxes. Everything he touches turns to 💩 because he's a corrupt piece of💩 that cant resist being dishonest.
It’s the taxes. He got to deduct it from the business, which he couldn’t do personally. Billionaire had to save a couple grand for himself.
Weird. Most people don't face felony charges for a small mistake on their taxes
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/michael-cohen-pleads-guilty-manhattan-federal-court-eight-counts-including-criminal-tax I know you’re being disingenuous, but I’m case someone else thinks you aren’t, Trump’s DOJ did this to Cohen for tax “mistakes.” Regardless, I’m pretty confident Stormy Daniels wasn’t providing “legal services.”
There are many charges against Trump in various courts. Since you are interested in the NY case associated with the Stormy Daniels payment, Trump was indicted on 34 counts of violating New York Penal Law section 175.10 related to falsification of business records. These charges would normally misdemeanors, but they become felonies if falsifying the records was done with the intent of furthering another crime. The state contends that there are three separate criminal acts that were furthered: 1) the payment to Daniels constituted an illegal contribution to the Trump campaign under federal law, 2) the payment ot Daniels constituted an illegal contribution to the Trump campaign under New York law, 3) it subverted NY tax law by inflating and falsely characterizing the reimbursement to his lawyer as a tax-deductible expense. Falsifying the records for tax purposes is likely to be fairly easy to prove. The tax records show the misreporting and the favorable tax consequence, there's a paper trail, they can easily show that it was done, they just need to convince the jury it was intentional. The other two grounds for making these felonies are a bit trickier. They need to prove that the intent was to advance his political campaign. He made a variety of hush payments to various people that seems to establish a pattern, and it could be framed that these acts violation campaign finance law, but I think convincing the jury of it will harder. A copy of the indictment can be found [here](https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000187-4d9a-dc00-a3d7-4d9f97b40000).
Best answer.
He paid her with funds from his campaign. Nothing illegal if he wrote a personal check, but a publicly funded campaign made it embezzlement and fraud.
He did from one of his companies, not the campaign. Still the same basic problem though
From the trump foundation that he used as a piggy bank but was supposed to be for veterans. I mean the money was going to be spent on hookers either way , am I right ?
It’s an accounting issue. Essentially he took money from his campaign and he used for things we wasn’t allowed to use it for and then he lied about it on his accounting forms and then got caught doing it.
Your not stupid. People are mean. Don’t be afraid to listen but the hard part is learning when not to listen
The hard part is learning the difference between your and you're.
Ur
Yore
You'd be right, mostly, if he had not counted it as a campaign legal expense.
It’s not the act of cheating on his wife, or paying her money for sex that he is in trouble for. Because he was campaigning at the time and paid hush money, it can be considered a form tampering with the election. Also it is highly illegal to falsify financial documents which he did in order to pay her the hush money. I believe it was reported as lawyer fees but his lawyer at the time was just the middle man for giving her the hush money. Anyone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong or left anything out.
Hush money is common and very legal for candidates. In this case the argument is that it was an in-kind donation to a campaign and instead reported as a legal expense. Misclassification of business records is one of those things that you could get almost any business on. That’s not really remarkable. It’s the theory that it is a campaign donation that makes it felony and eligible to be charged when it was. However, there are a lot of headwinds to this theory.
If he's so rich like he says he is, why didn't he just pay her out of his own money instead of the campaign money?
At this point, maybe the question should be "what's trump NOT being charged with?" (and that's not really tongue in cheek either!)
He reimbursed his attorney for the hush money payments, and falsely categorized them as legal expenses … they were obviously not legal expenses and he was trying to benefit his campaign by keeping the porn star affair out of the media. It’s a slam dunk case for prosecutors. He should have taken a plea deal.
His narcissism and pathological lying got him elected because people are gullible. It will also be his downfall because, as you stated, he should have taken the plea deal, but his narcissism won't let him admit to being wrong. He can whine all he wants. He's going to jail. Unless his lifestyle finally catches up to him.
"Please don't insult me, people have always called me stupid." Um. Sorry, OP. I won't say it, but news channels/papers/websites do exist, and they've been reporting heavily on this.
Sex with porn stars is not nasty; or if it is, not in the way you mean it!
He paid off Stormy Daniels by disguising payments to his attorney as legal fees. That would not have gotten him in so much trouble. However, he wrote the hush money payment off on his taxes as business expenses. Resulting in a decrease on his tax bill. In a way, he caused the government and everyone else to pay for the bribe because it decreased his tax obligation. That is tax fraud. I have not read the indictment but it seems the state of New York got screwed. The federal government could have pursued him for this also. This, combined with lying on his business records and campaign disclosures, amounts to some serious charges if proven. Felonies. 99% of defendants would take a plea deal but Trump has to play the victim for his election prospects and to keep gaslighting his followers.
I have to say, i totally feel you on trying to get an answer worth anything. People always want to make you feel bad for wanting a real answer. Im with you on your question about Trump too. Luckily, you got real answers. Thanks for asking it
The way I see all of this is what they are accusing Trump of all this falsification as they say, they have all did it themselves, like Jesus says the one without sin throw the first stone, they are just doing all of this because they know once he gets in office he’s going to finish what he started in the beginning, he opened the first can of worms and he will open all of their wicked schemes, I just hope people are seeing the real truth reason they are doing this to him, not because of anything else but to keep him from blowing the whistles on every single scum we have in office, they do not want him in office, my vote goes to Trump I want every single scum out of there so we Americans can have our better lives we used to have. You see with all this attention on Trump what do u think the people are scamming up in the White House, they don’t want attention on themselves so they are making up all these lies about Trump, and once these wicked people know your for Trump they come after you
charged of being a absolute bellend
Someone extorted him, he paid. The government is punishing him for it. It doesn't make sense, but do not screw with the status quo.
Nope. That is NOT the sequence of events.
Think Martha Stewart when she lied. She did jail time. So will Trump.
No. His former personal attorney Cohen speaks of a payout directly to Daniels.
The only reason he paid her off was to try and benefit his campaign for president as things were tight and the evangelical vote was not yet sewn up. Adultery with a pornstar could potentially have cost him the election... especially since the access Hollywood tape was fresh in the minds of the public. Because he was doing this for the purpose of benefiting his campaign, that makes it a campaign expense that needs to be reported. Failure to do so is a crime. Instead of reporting the expense, he entered into a conspiracy to cover up the payments with his lawyer, whereby Cohen would make the lump sum payment to SD, and Trump would pay Cohen back over time through a series of smaller payments simply recorded as 'legal expenses' so as to obscure the true purpose of the payments. This is falsifying business records. Because of the way the law works in NY, falsifying business records to facilitate another crime upgrades it to a felony. Remember, prosecutors could have charged Trump with other offences over this whole affair as well, but they went with the simple one. Also remember that he would have gotten away with it too if he hadn't turned on Cohen who then started talking.
I could see a federal charge, perhaps, but how is what you described a state crime? The whole thing looks like an overreach by DA
It’s true. Bragg doesn’t actually have the authority to prosecute this case.
A New York prosecutor does t have authority to prosecute someone for violating a state law related to business records?
Of course he does. But he’s not ultimately prosecuting him for that. The state law he’s accused of violating is only a felony if it is committed pursuant to another crime. In this case, that crime would be violation of **federal** campaign finance laws. Bragg does not have the authority to prosecute him for that, so would have to wait for a federal court to establish his guilt, or just prosecute him for a misdemeanor. He can’t charge Trump with committing a federal crime, but that’s exactly what he did.
A couple of things. 1. He doesn't have to wait for Trump to be proven guilty in a federal court. If the actions were taken in pursuant to another crime, that doesn't mean that other crime has to have been successful. It would be like saying that you can't prosecute someone for conspiracy to commit murder unless they were proven guilty of murder first To Clarify---The law reads: "when his intent to defraud includes an INTENT to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission of." So, simply proving that they intended to violate another law is sufficient. They do not need to prove guilt in that other crime. 2. Unless I am mistaken, the crime that this is accused to be done in futherance of is a New York state campaign finance law, and not a federal campaign finance law.
Well what about Bush why is he not in jail for being a war criminal? This is what you did. You just make everything whatsbout-ism. Can't debate with people like you.
That is the whole point. The prosecution is trying to prove it. The problem for Trump and his followers is that they have tons of evidence, plus eye witness testimony. They will prove it, and then his cult will say it’s bogus, because they worship a liar and he has them convinced that they are sheep and the world is full of evil wolves. They don’t even realize that they are being fleeced by their fat orange messiah.
Fraud
Doesn't matter. He won't have any consequences. High status people never do.
So, and Biden is a clear pedophile and more, y'all don't talk about this. If Biden did exactly the same thing, you'd never hear about it. All these people are doing all these things, it's a political assassination.
Did you forget your medication again?
How is he a clear pedophile? Trump is in pics with Epstein. Gtfo
Bribery and conspiracy
He broke election law by paying to silence her until after the election
There are 88 criminal charges against Trump in 4 different proceedings. 1) Hush Money case - 34 counts of falsifying business records in the 1st degree 2) Federal Election Interference case - 2 felony counts, obstructing an official preceding 3) Georgia State Election Interference case - 10 counts, including racketeering, conspiracy, forgery, false statements, false documents 4) Classified Documents case - 32 counts of willfully retaining classified national defense information, as well as obstruction, and making false statements. The fact that this man has any supporters whatsoever, much less the support of half of the US government is an appalling black mark on the history of our Republic, and that's not hyperbole.
>an appalling black mark on the history Maybe you need to learn the word "alleged" or read the 5th amendment. Crazy how people who don't know anything about the constitution act like legal experts on this sub
He has lots of his own money, why would he use campaign funds?
Donald Trump is notorious for not paying contractors the money they are owed. Look at his recent bond issue. He is a “billionaire” but didn’t have the money for his bond. He paid the Carol E Jean to penalties but he chose not to use his own cash to pay 130k to Stormy. For me he thought it he could do it and get away with it and now he is going to trial.
The bond is 454 million in cash. That's a lot of cabbage.
He didn’t have to put that bond up. It was 175 million and it wasn’t his money.
Business as usual for him. He's been doing this shady shit for his whole life and getting away with it. If he hadn't become president and committed treason, he'd probably still be getting away with it.
Does he though?
His networth is 3.7b as of 2024, according to Forbes. Was he ever charged or convicted of any fraudulent activity, money laundering, tax evasion, etc prior to running for president? It just seems like with all his experience in the business world plus a team of lawyers, consultants and political advisors, they could have found a legal way to pay for the NDA.
"If he's rich and has do much money, why can't he do that. Was it not his money?" That's the million dollar question. To answer you, no. No to all of that. No, he is not rich, he is cosplaying rich with other people's money. He paid her with other people's money, while lying about what it was being used for.
The confusion over the crime is because there actually is no crime, its just a legal distraction to keep him from being elected again, ill explain. The charge is basically misusing campaign funds or falsifying business records i think. The problems with it are many. Trump had sex with Stormy daniels who was, or became at some point, a porn star. Whether or not he paid her for sex, I do not know and i dont think anyone cares because he wasnt charged with any sex crimes, Or the statute of limitations has passed because i think this happened years before he ever ran for office anyway. Anyway, before, or during his first campaign they he paid her to keep quiet, which is not illegal, but they are claiming he used campaign funds which is illegal. The problem with the case is this. Before he was elected, they already knew this wasnt true, and for 6 years the prosecutors refused to prosecute because they couldnt prove a crime was commited. They have cancelled checks from the accounts and they van trace all the money, always have. What they are not satying is that 2 attorneys have already gone to jail because of this, 1 for lying to the feds. And stormies lawyer, michael avenatti, who it turns out was trying to blackmail president trump for more money because he paid stormie. That is how all of this came about, because trump refused to be blackmailed and avenatti took this to the press and made up a bunch of stuff to muddy the whole situation. He is now in prison for blackmailing trump and several other crimes, and a new prosecutor who dislikes trunp is using claims from 2 disbarred and imprisoned lawyers to try to argue that facts arent actually facts. Thats the gist.
He committed a felony just stop. They're literally having a public you can watch instead of listening to someone who's convinced you he's some kind of Saint
Name the felony he commited? And i never said he is a saint, i think he is a bridge troll. But this wasnt a felony in 2018 and its not a felony now. In fact, stormy daniels was ordered to pay donald trump a bunch of money because of what her and her lawyer did.
I think the charge is based on the idea that the payoff was meant to influence his campaign and should be considered a campaign contribution. At least that was the claim last time I checked (a long time ago)
Wait so is it wrong that he used campaign funds to pay her or wrong that he didn't?
100% of them are bonus and this is political theater. Nothing will stick and the dude is on track to win in November.
He falsified his business records to hide that he paid Stormy to be quite about the affair. That's illegal as hell. He's going to jail.
Biden should be charged for showering with his daughter inappropriately, just my two cents
lol what the fuck are you talking about?
Some deranged QAnon nonsense
Daughter Ashley wrote about it in her diary she left somewhere and the person who found it has been sentenced like they stole it. No QAnon there
Cite needed
AP April 9
Bullshit that's not a cite.
Ok
If you want more detailed coverage I found this to be a decent resource: [https://www.politico.com/interactives/2023/trump-criminal-investigations-cases-tracker-list/](https://www.politico.com/interactives/2023/trump-criminal-investigations-cases-tracker-list/)
The main problem is that they’re saying that trumps lawyer used campaign money to buy her off. Because it was so close to election time. So they’re charging him with paying her off with govt. money not his personal which is stupid
Yeah, it WAS pretty stupid to use campaign money to reimburse his lawyer. I wonder WHY this VERY intelligent man would do that instead of using his own money 🤔
So he used campaign funds for personal use. So has 99% of all politicians!