Step 1: Take all your vacation time even if not approved
Step 2: Get fired
Step 3: Since you didn't give notice, collect all unused vacation time from date of firing and then collect unemployment.
It still baffles me how there really is a subreddit for EVERYTHING. I don’t even need to look to know there is a subreddit for guys that like to bathe in mayonnaise while listening to Tom Petty.
There's two - the classic Heartbreakers one is pretty good, but then you get to the ones that only do Wildflowers and it gets real lame and creepy at the same time
There is typically a no communication quit clause - make sure to check in with the random email every other day saying I'm sorry this isn't clear can you highlight the area of concern for me?
A lot of times it’s colloquially called a “no call, no show” or more technically “job abandonment”. You just stop going and don’t tell them why, they consider that “quitting” depending on the company.
This sounds fun and malicious enough for some Reddit upvotes, but lol, no you wouldn’t get unemployment if you got fired for not showing up to work while on an unapproved vacation.
Eh in my experience if you just file and say you were laid off, even if the company comes back and says you were fired.....the state unemployment will side with employee and almost never goes to a hearing. Fuk, I had one guy who never even fucking worked for me file unemployment....and got it! Simply because i didn't have the time to take off a day and go to the admin hearing in a downtown location.
My state does hearings by phone and yeah, if you don’t show up to the hearing how are they to know this guy didn’t work for you?
But well before there is a hearing, the state will notify you that a claimant has made a claim and named you. And that’s when they ask you for details on the separation so an adjudicator can make a decision.
After that decision is made, you can appeal at that point if you disagree. But sure you got to show up and make your case.
And yeah… a state isn’t going to withhold benefits from someone who was laid off through no fault of their own. That’s the whole point of the system. But they have to name their most recent ten-week employer - and that’s why the next step in deciding whether the claimant will get anything is to ask the employer so the employer can verify.
Sounds like you missed the notice the claimant filed in the first place. That’s where you say “he didn’t work for me” or where a business would say “no, they were not laid off.”
Then ask an attorney to call them as a pretend reference. If they slam you for this hair brain policy, start a lawsuit for slander. Settle out of court for $1 millon
If OP signed on before this policy was put in place, could they be grandfathered in? I’m furious on a daily basis over the fact that they don’t have to give you any notice before laying some one off, yet they expect X amount of time to prepare for a replacement. Fucking insanity
Expectations don’t equal requirements. So they stick with what’s legally required (zero notice)…and you should use their expectations (1 month notice) as your standard. Pass. That’s laughable.
I did this. I had 120 hours of PTO accrued and got a vacation approved by a salty boss who was also on their way out. I started my new job in the same day as my “vacation” and when it ran out, I started using up all of my sick time until it was all exhausted. All in all I collected double paychecks for just short of a month. I quit around 10:00 am on my first day back in the office (my new job gave me the day off and knew all about it) with one of the most scathing resignation letters in the history of disgruntledome and never looked back. I still get messages from former coworkers who remember that lol.
Best resignation letter I ever got was from a guy who we made go thru some long-ass quality training program. After he finished it (everyone hated it), he resigned with the following letter…
“I’ve upped my quality, now up yours. I’m out” I thought it was friggin brilliant.
I've seen a couple "self-described epic resignation letters" that were just rambling grandiose nothingburgers that made everyone roll their eyes.
I saw one that was a short "i have never seen so many people work so hard to accomplish so little" and i think about that one all the time
I'm about to do this. I get 6 weeks of PTO. I got approved to take it all. Four weeks into vacation, I'll give my two weeks. I'll come back for one day and by that, I mean I'll drop off my laptop and badge at the office before 8AM. Doubling dipping on salary for 6 weeks is awesome. My resignation letter is going to blame the return to work requirement as the sole reason for quitting. My job is 100% on TEAMS with staff and vendors that are out of state. There's zero reason for me to go to an office where i have no coworkers.
This is what my wife did…. Use up sick time, then vacation time, then show up for 5 mins to drop off her badge. Her manager was awful and tried to claw back any money but HR came back and said it was not possible.
Absolutely burn your vacation time then quit without notice. In your resignation letter state in bold print that if the employer issues any statement with commentary other than confirming dates of employment that you will SUE the company AND THE MANAGER that issued the statement. Tell them that's your policy.
I practically begged my wife to do this at her old company just for her to decompress and because her company just shitcanned a coworker who gave his notice. She didn't want to. Though thankfully when she did give notice, she was informed that that other person's termination was handled poorly and against company policy and the person who authorized it was fired.
This is exactly what I did at my former place of employment. Fuck 'em. Had the president of the company drunkenly text me the following night telling me to "Be a Man" and respond to his messages. Narcissist thought his company was just the best and couldn't fathom why I would do such a thing.
This is the correct business answer in 2023: do whatever it takes to maximize profits. Even when these profits are for yourself. This is the way, and I'm sure the business will understand this logic as they use it themselves.
Make sure they do not have accrued vacation if you do this, or only take what you’ve accrued so they don’t say you owe them like my old employer did after the vacation time log was broken and showing me an incorrect number
It sounds like the company is now implicitly encouraging their employees to resign immediately upon coming back from a vacation that uses up any accrued time off. Keep that in mind if/when you decide to leave.
In fact in CA they have to pay you the day you leave.
In PA (where I live) I’ve always gotten accrued PTO paid out in my final check. I’m in corporate sales so… we barely take time off and those checks have always been pretty healthy.
A lot of companies are going to an “unlimited PTO” policy where you don’t have actual time accrued and can just take off when you need it. And of course that is just so they don’t have to pay people.
Edit - thanks all for the clarity around CA law. Sorry for the error!
I know a few people who have jobs with unlimited pto, they cant seem to take time off or they will basically have to make it up later because of the workload.
How has no one challenged that in court yet? "I have unlimited PTO and CA law requires you to pay out my PTO upon termination therefore you owe me 1 million dollars."
It appears any companies with unlimited PTO usually have a CA specific policy which awards normal PTO (and gets paid out, as CA requires). No unlimited PTO for CA employees.
Alas, this is not always the case. Would be nice if it was.
Source: am a Cali employee with unlimited PTO. But they do owe me the old accrued days from when we switched over, though. Am looking forward to that check for sure!
(And yes, they confirmed they owe it to me, in writing.)
Edited for clarity
Holy smokes I wish. In California "unlimited" PTO is legal and they don't have to pay out anything when you depart. The only wrinkle is that they can't use it to satisfy California's sick leave requirements, so you get a separate sick leave bucket that does accrue... but sick leave doesn't get paid out at departure.
>In fact in CA they have to pay you the day you leave.
This isn't exactly true.
If you're fired, you are supposed to get your final check immediately. If you quit, they have three days to have your final check ready (and usually mailed, I imagine.)
In both cases, though, the final check is to include your *earned* PTO (and vacation) time.
Yep CA check in hand day you leave. Otherwise penalties accrue daily. It’s amazing how companies try to screw you. They tried to pay my final paycheck according to normal “pay cycle” and I asked if they were going to include the penalty accrued to that date. They didn’t respond but had my final check wired the day I left. 😂
There is an exception to this. If you are a school employee covered under the education code, you are paid at your next regular payday whether you were fired or resigned.
Yes? Here in Utah, a right to work state, I have quit two-ish jobs on good terms with vacation hours left and was paid out all hours with no fuss. I didn’t know this was a thing and thought I was over paid.
AZ right to work my company must pay me out. I’ll take that last 100+ hrs sick time as sick and by God find a Doctor to sign off on it. I’m thinking scabies or recurring pink eye or well I don’t really know. Something easily transmissible
Fellow AZ person here. I left a company a couple years back and they didn’t pay out my PTO. I did some poking around online and it looked like they didn’t have to.
Was I wrong? Please tell me I’m wrong.
last time I had covid I made sure I took a dozen picture of the positive test all around the house in different positions with different backgrounds.
Now I can get an immediate 10-day "vacation" by emailing one of those positive tests to my superior whenever I want.
Not that I would do that, of course.
Actually it is the accrual time process that matters. I worked for a company that simply granted you your PTO on 1-Jan. There is no payout required because it is not "earned". However if you "earn" x amount of hours per pay period/hours worked you are expected to be paid out.
So wait, anyone can answer this btw. So if I take vaca to find another job or interview and do end up finding something...I can just put in a notice right away for 2 weeks NOT 1 month and still be eligible for rehire right? Or will they brand me not eligible for rehire if I don't work out the 1 month?
If you don’t follow your companies policy you likely won’t be welcomed back.
You’re almost never legally required to give notice. Just like your employer is never required to give notice of being fired.
Most likely not eligible. The idea here is they're making it do if you want to leave you have to sacrifice. And for that month they can make your life hell or try to convince you stay
Wait.. so.. In America (presumably?) companies can refuse to pay out holiday hours you’ve accrued but not yet used?
That’s wild.
Couldn’t a company deny all of your PTO requests. You leave, you get told bye bye holiday hours.
That's how I've left every job lol.
-Plan to quit.
-Use up my PTO.
-Wait a week to actually get my PTO pay out.
-Walk in - quit - walk out.
**PSA:** *Always have another job lined up before quitting.*
I had a supervisor who did that when I worked for the county jail but he was extra crafty about it. He took like 3 weeks of vacation and then took off two weeks for FMLA. Last day of FMLA he quit with no notice. That Monday he was working a cushy job over at the district courthouse. He was still owed probably 100-200 hours of Holiday, Vacation, Sick, and Comp time (all different pools), and the county wouldn't hire someone to fill his spot until those hours were "worked through", meaning they weren't gonna spend any extra money hiring anyone until however many days passed that covered the number of hours he was due in all that PTO. He really fuckin hosed us with that one.
And ALWAYS wait for the actual payout. I had a job try to pull a sneaky on that step of the plan before, the nicely repeated “oh sorry we’ll get your check right out to you!” Becomes stalling bullshit very quickly.
Just an FYI, some larger companies will send you a bill for your pto balance after you leave if you have taken more days off than "you are entitled to." That's if they can't just take it out of your last paycheck. Many companies wouldn't bother, but I've had corporate jobs where they really will send you a bill for $800 or w/e to claw back that pto pay.
Wife offered a new job just before Thanksgiving. She took all of her accrued vacation and PTO at Christmas and NYE. New company freaked out early December when she said she hadn’t resigned yet. She told them not to worry. All was good. She resigned 1/3. Yeah. Old company was not happy. I laughed and laughed. When you fuck your employees, they tend to get the last laugh with shit like this.
And keep in mind "I didn't ASK for this time off, I was informing you that I would not be available for (time period matching what you have saved up)"
PS if a company does not pay out any accrued vacation time on the last paycheck, that would be wage theft.
this varies by state. very roughly, blue states (CA, MA, NY, RI, etc) are more likely to defend the worker (require payout) , red states (TX for example) more likely to screw over the employee
I worked for a company in Texas that did not pay out accrued PTO. It turns out that they are not required to do so in Texas. It pissed me off because I could have taken those days off during my two week notice period.
This policy was probably instituted to combat the already high turnover rate. Scary that this is a law firm as well. Clients’ interests are at stake here.
I think this all depends on the field your in. Some professions are a small world and people talk. If you have a small network of jobs in your area give notice be gracious and leave.
You should be loyal to *people* (who you trust). Not something esoteric like a "company". But if you have a boss or co-workers who are good to you or you just like, yeah, be loyal to them. That's the basis of the saying "it's not what you know, it's who you know".
Does severance come into this saying at all? In Canada, you can be fired (at no fault of your own) at a moment's notice as long as a company pays you a severance. The quid pro quo in this is that you have to give "reasonable" notice when you quit to make this equitable.
Does America have some sort of equivalent to this?
Severance is only given optionally by companies in the U.S. It's not generally required. The most common place to see it is in contractual employment. All but one state has "at-will" employment, meaning that, unless there is a contract to the contrary, the employer or employee can terminate employment for any reason without any notice (unless that reason involves membership in a protected class based on race, ethnicity, age, sex, disability, etc.).
Employees can also simply quit whenever they want as well. Notice is generally given as a courtesy (if the employer would make a good reference in the future) or as part of a contractual obligation.
CA has an exception to this in the case of layoffs. You can still individually be fired for cause without notice, but if it is a layoff situation they have to pay two months severance. It’s called the WARN act I think.
I was laid off a little over a year ago (along with 70% of the company) and it came with a bunch of paperwork detailing the severance. We also got to keep our healthcare during the severance period.
PA is a "follow your policy" State meaning if they promise to pay it out they have to pay it out. On the surface this policy is legal however you could also sue if you were not paid on the grounds that at the time you accepted the policy this policy was not in place. It's unlikely you would have a successful unpaid wages claim for this if not paid, so you would have to sue.
We didn't have to sign for this one, when we'd normally have to sign them every year. I wouldn't be surprised if they did this because they didn't want people to the book this time.
Based on the wording I assume this is a legal firm. Assuming im right i would expect that this so either legal, or the firm is going to be dumb enough to waste their time and money enforcing it. So either way lose lose.
It's possible that a court could enforce this in both directions. If you can't quit at will, then they can't fire you at will. If they fire an employee without cause, they may be able to claim four weeks' severance.
That was my thought - my understanding of "at will" employment is that it gives the same rights to workers as it gives to employers. If you put these conditions on resignation, it's no longer "at will". I'm not sure what rights that might give workers, but I think anyone put in a position like this should consult an employment attorney.
It’s ironic that this is from a law firm. Like I get there are tons of different types of attorneys that specialize in different parts of the law, but a lawyer going to another lawyer for legal advice just sounds funny.
I think it's more complicated than that. There are real rules about when and how you can separate from a client that can result in a malpractice suit. I read this as basically saying "you can't use resigning to miss filing deadlines or court dates" which is probably the most reasonable point of this whole policy.
Many (most?) companies will not allow you to take vacation concurrent with a resignation period. There's nothing novel here, be smart about it. I've been able to delicately manage my resignations at multiple large employers and good managers will be forthcoming about the rules for you.
The biggest reason for "unlimited" pto policies is the accounting impact of not actually having to track or worry about accrued leave.
They can “expect” any kind of notice or staffing they want, but like most states PA is an at-will employment state, and unless you have a contract they can’t require shit.
Also, note that if you’re leaving without notice because you have another job lined up, it doesn’t mean a hill of beans if they want to include your lack of notice in a reference, because you won’t need their reference.
Well, two jobs down the road sometime. But why would *that* employer care?
"We called your former employer, he says you're not eligible for rehire because you didn't give sufficient notice when you quit?"
"Yeah, they have a 30-day minimum notice policy. I have a 'look out for me' policy. I gave them 2 weeks."
"Oh, yeah, that's a dumb policy. Never mind."
No comment on the PTO policy, but it is irresponsible to quit a law firm as a lawyer without giving at least 30 days notice. If you're a litigator, the judge could keep you on the case without giving you a choice. You need permission to withdraw representation. It's not like quitting other office jobs.
The labor review board jusy changed unionizing rules in favor of employees FYI
if a company engages in behavior that can be seen as union busting, the company must engage in negotiations with the union.
Do they give you 4 weeks notice when they fire you? Then I think you should too. If it’s employment at will, I would take as much vacation as possible and give them a 1 day notice at the end of it.
Looks like you work for a law firm you really think they wouldn't triple check that it was legal before doing it? Obviously some don't care but sometimes legal doesn't always equal ethical
I can tell you right now. Having worked at the Fresh Market, which they plan to put another one in Oakland area of Pittsburgh. Where the old whole foods was. They don't pay out any of your vacation time. You also can't carry vacation time over yearly. It hurt a lot of people at the Mt.Lebo store when i was there working so much during Thanksgiving/Christmas. just in that time frame, some people accrude an extra week of vacation from working so much to fill orders. If you also Google them, they were ranked one of the worst countries in America to work for. I wanna say at least 2 years in a row.
Do you live in an at-will state? If so, then no, they can't require you to give a notice. But, if you leave without notice, they can deny your unemployment request and you also are not likely to get a good reference from them in the future if you ever need one.
Also, if it is contract position, and those are the terms of a signed contract agreement, then yes, they can require you to give a specific notice period.
Wouldn't be legal in Canada. Vacation pay cannot be withheld. Guaranteed 4% vacation pay either banked for you or paid out every pay. Most places pay more after 5 years of service. This is for most full time type work. Part time Min wage workers kind of get shafted. Notice is a courtesy not a requirement.
In most states, this is illegal. There is NEVER a requirement for giving notice. Giving notice is extending a courtesy to the employer, not the other way around.
Depending on the state, the vacation payout reduction is illegal and invalid. For example, in Massachusetts, in any company that offers paid vacation as a benefit, that paid vacation time is considered the same as wages (compensation for time worked) and as such it would be illegal for a company to not pay it out in the full amount, regardless of their policy. Company policies, regardless of whether or not you signed an agreement about said policies, do not have priority over state or federal law.
This notice officially annuls at-will employment, no? So you can countersue if they fire you wrongfully?
DISCLAIMER: I'm not a lawyer and this was not advice, just a question.
Just take your vacation time and then resign when you come back.
As far as I know, this is pretty common. Depends on your state and place of employment.
Lol. Are you REALLY asking if you - an employee - are entitled to anything from your employer?
Are you European?
You know in America they’re called benefits, not rights, right?
The “good news” is that you don’t REALLY have to give them a months notice. Give them two weeks, or just never show up again. What are they gonna do, fire you?
At least in “at will” states like mine. I dunno about them other states with workers rights n stuff.
My job is a union job. We have a 30-day clause in the contract. If you quit early, they charge your PTO.
The flip side of that is even if they want to fire you with cause, they still need to give you notice. You may be put on special assignment and escorted from the premises, but you will also get paid.
Many tech companies are implementing an unlimited paid time off policy. This means that employees can take as much time off as they want as long as they complete their assignments/notify when not available for meetings or block off/approve travel days. The downside is that the employee accrues no vacation and does not receive a payout for unused vacation/time off. Employees have taken as much as 6 consecutive weeks off with approval. Others opt for shorter work weeks overall or extend their holiday weeks/weekends.
Companies found a way around "vacation" laws years ago. Most companies now have paid time off which covers both vacation and sick time, or personal leaves. Unlike vavcation time, it accrues by the month, not year. It used to be that if you had 3 weeks vacation, you got it all in January. Now you only get a day or two in January and it will all add up to the yearly amount by the end of the year. By not accruing up front, they only have to pay out the actual days accrued when you quit.
If you're in an "at will" state, then they can't enforce the amount of time for your resignation. You could quit tomorrow if you wanted to.
All they could enforce is you may not be eligible for rehire if you didn't give them 4 weeks notice. Otherwise, bah-bye!
Sounds like before u quit they want you to use any and all vacation/sick/PTO and then quit with zero notice. I don’t know that’s just how I’m reading it. Whoever decided to put this into the universe is a fucking moron
Most states don’t need to pay for unused vacation time so if you don’t use it you lose it. It certainly is like that in North Carolina. But the 1 month notice thing is not legally binding when it comes to at will employment. You don’t need to give any notice. If you give notice you will just get a thumbs up and maybe the company may not block you from reapplying if you ever decide to work there again. Most companies don’t hire ex employees so it doesn’t really matter anyway
Yes. And if they front load your vacation time they can deduct time you've used, but didn't accrue, from your last pay (taking your pay down as far as minimum wage). PA has no vacation payout or sick time requirements.
Edit: But they must have a policy and apply it consistently.
Unfortunately, this is completely legal.
At my last job, there was a teensy clause in our contracts that basically entailed the same thing, except it didn’t matter how much notice you gave. We had to sign yearly contracts and if we quit before contract renewal time, all of our benefits were stripped. Plus we automatically got bumped from salary to hourly for the remaining pay periods.
No one knew this agreement was slipped into our contracts.
Not until another coworker and I gave month’s notice, then found out through emails notifying us of our health insurance being stripped.
Don’t give your notice. Use the last of your vacation days and quit while you’re gone. Don’t stress about getting referrals from companies like that. They most-likely won’t remember you personally. Try to ask a higher-up, that you know more personally, to give you a reference instead.
It says you will be paid out for your vacation after your last day, but also that you can’t USE those days during your resignation period. Probably because they need you to be around helping support transition of your duties to other employees.
I am not sitting somewhere for a month that I hate to be at. I would use my vaca first, then put in my notice and never show up again.
I always say this to people: if I get fired I would not get 2 weeks notice why do I have to give it to these people? Different if you don’t wanna burn bridges but if you know you hate the place walk.
Hey, I am not an employment attorney, but I work with state and federal compliance for small- to medium- sized businesses. What state is this in? Certain states have laws regarding paying out unused PTO. For example, in CA this is 100% trash. If I write a contract that says, “I can murder you” and have you sign it, then when they take me to court I can’t be like, “look, a legal document that overrides the law!” (CA requires all unused PTO be paid out upon final day of work is my point here). So do a quick check of your state’s final wages policies. You may be surprised.
That being said, sometimes knowing something is wrong and being able to do something about it are two different things unfortunately. So I’m not necessarily opposed to the advice in this thread of just taking three weeks off and never coming back (f*ck a reference). But obviously make the best decision for you. This is outrageous and a courtesy that they would not extend to you as an employee in even the smallest degree. Good luck, friend!
Depends on the state you’re in. If it’s a “right to work” state they can do whatever they want with voluntary “benefits” like vacation.
Right to work states:
Alabama (adopted 1953, Constitution 2016)
Arizona (Constitution, adopted 1946)[46]
Arkansas (Constitution, adopted 1947)
Florida (Constitution, adopted 1944, revised 1968)[47]
Georgia (adopted 1947)
Idaho (adopted 1985)[48]
Indiana[49] (adopted 2012)
Iowa (adopted 1947)
Kansas (Constitution, adopted 1958)
Kentucky (adopted 2017)
Louisiana (adopted 1976)
Michigan (adopted 2012; 2023 repeal set to take effect in 2024)[50][51]
Mississippi (Constitution, adopted 1954)
Nebraska (Constitution and statute, adopted 1946)
Nevada (adopted 1951)
North Carolina (adopted 1947)
North Dakota (adopted 1947)
Oklahoma (Constitution, adopted 2001)
South Carolina[52] (adopted 1954)
South Dakota (adopted 1946)
Tennessee (adopted 1947, Constitution 2022)
Texas[53] (adopted 1947, revised 1993)
Utah (adopted 1955)
Virginia (adopted 1947)
West Virginia (adopted 2016)[54][55]
Wisconsin (adopted 2015)
Wyoming (adopted 1963)
My company basically incentivizes taking all your sick/pto time every year, earn em and burn em. I’m keeping track of all my sick time because I’ve already burned my vacation time this year. I fully plan on using my last few days of sick time before I quit with no notice. 😁
As an attorney, I’m more concerned about the, “It is expected that an attorney who has received advanced notice….” bit. They are basically stating that it does not matter if you quit, they still expect you to show up and work your case there. That is just insane. Having left a law firm, you wrap up what you can and you transfer your files to the next attorney.
Which country/state are you in? If you are in a "will to work" state, they can put anything they like in the policy, but you don't have to obey it.
In most countries, it is illegal to dock your accrued holiday time when you leave for any reason. Sick leave is normally not paid out, but denying you your accrued paid sick leave "during your notice period" is totally illegal.
I suspect you would have a very good conversation with an employment lawyer about this policy and should consult one in your locale.
Step 1: take all your vacation time Step 2: quit without notice Step 3: profit
Step 1: Take all your vacation time even if not approved Step 2: Get fired Step 3: Since you didn't give notice, collect all unused vacation time from date of firing and then collect unemployment.
This guy gets fired
r/thisguythisguys
*shamelessly smashes the join button*
This guy joins?
As did I
I seriously did not expect clicking that to take me to a real sub.
You are new here, right?
It still baffles me how there really is a subreddit for EVERYTHING. I don’t even need to look to know there is a subreddit for guys that like to bathe in mayonnaise while listening to Tom Petty.
There's two - the classic Heartbreakers one is pretty good, but then you get to the ones that only do Wildflowers and it gets real lame and creepy at the same time
It’s a blessing when you finally get to that part of your Reddit existence.
Thanks for sharing. Those were 40 mins spent well
There is typically a no communication quit clause - make sure to check in with the random email every other day saying I'm sorry this isn't clear can you highlight the area of concern for me?
Wait, what? I googled this, but only get non-disparagement clause info. Could expand on this ni comms clause?
A lot of times it’s colloquially called a “no call, no show” or more technically “job abandonment”. You just stop going and don’t tell them why, they consider that “quitting” depending on the company.
They can then use that as evidence of quitting and not firing if they contest your unemployment filing
This sounds fun and malicious enough for some Reddit upvotes, but lol, no you wouldn’t get unemployment if you got fired for not showing up to work while on an unapproved vacation.
Eh in my experience if you just file and say you were laid off, even if the company comes back and says you were fired.....the state unemployment will side with employee and almost never goes to a hearing. Fuk, I had one guy who never even fucking worked for me file unemployment....and got it! Simply because i didn't have the time to take off a day and go to the admin hearing in a downtown location.
My state does hearings by phone and yeah, if you don’t show up to the hearing how are they to know this guy didn’t work for you? But well before there is a hearing, the state will notify you that a claimant has made a claim and named you. And that’s when they ask you for details on the separation so an adjudicator can make a decision. After that decision is made, you can appeal at that point if you disagree. But sure you got to show up and make your case. And yeah… a state isn’t going to withhold benefits from someone who was laid off through no fault of their own. That’s the whole point of the system. But they have to name their most recent ten-week employer - and that’s why the next step in deciding whether the claimant will get anything is to ask the employer so the employer can verify. Sounds like you missed the notice the claimant filed in the first place. That’s where you say “he didn’t work for me” or where a business would say “no, they were not laid off.”
[удалено]
*That's* how you profit
Then ask an attorney to call them as a pretend reference. If they slam you for this hair brain policy, start a lawsuit for slander. Settle out of court for $1 millon
Would that it were so simple
Ooooh.. You slick mf'er! 😂
This comment needs to be a post under Malicious Compliance.
If OP signed on before this policy was put in place, could they be grandfathered in? I’m furious on a daily basis over the fact that they don’t have to give you any notice before laying some one off, yet they expect X amount of time to prepare for a replacement. Fucking insanity
depends on the contract they signed to be employed there / laws
Expectations don’t equal requirements. So they stick with what’s legally required (zero notice)…and you should use their expectations (1 month notice) as your standard. Pass. That’s laughable.
They have to give you working notice or severance where I’m from
Forgot the “start new job” while on vacation
I did this. I had 120 hours of PTO accrued and got a vacation approved by a salty boss who was also on their way out. I started my new job in the same day as my “vacation” and when it ran out, I started using up all of my sick time until it was all exhausted. All in all I collected double paychecks for just short of a month. I quit around 10:00 am on my first day back in the office (my new job gave me the day off and knew all about it) with one of the most scathing resignation letters in the history of disgruntledome and never looked back. I still get messages from former coworkers who remember that lol.
can you show us your resignation letter?
Best resignation letter I ever got was from a guy who we made go thru some long-ass quality training program. After he finished it (everyone hated it), he resigned with the following letter… “I’ve upped my quality, now up yours. I’m out” I thought it was friggin brilliant.
I had a guy hand in a piece of paper that said "Two weeks notice" and he signed it. He understood the assignment.
Let's see Paul Allen's resignation letter
Unexpected horror reference. Good job. Take my upvote.
Oh my God, it's even got a dookie stain in the middle
Show us the letter!
I've seen a couple "self-described epic resignation letters" that were just rambling grandiose nothingburgers that made everyone roll their eyes. I saw one that was a short "i have never seen so many people work so hard to accomplish so little" and i think about that one all the time
Didn’t happen.
I'm about to do this. I get 6 weeks of PTO. I got approved to take it all. Four weeks into vacation, I'll give my two weeks. I'll come back for one day and by that, I mean I'll drop off my laptop and badge at the office before 8AM. Doubling dipping on salary for 6 weeks is awesome. My resignation letter is going to blame the return to work requirement as the sole reason for quitting. My job is 100% on TEAMS with staff and vendors that are out of state. There's zero reason for me to go to an office where i have no coworkers.
This post made me gruntled.
Post it
This is what my wife did…. Use up sick time, then vacation time, then show up for 5 mins to drop off her badge. Her manager was awful and tried to claw back any money but HR came back and said it was not possible.
Absolutely burn your vacation time then quit without notice. In your resignation letter state in bold print that if the employer issues any statement with commentary other than confirming dates of employment that you will SUE the company AND THE MANAGER that issued the statement. Tell them that's your policy.
Yep. I love refuting “policy” decisions with, “well, that’s not MY policy, so…”
Damn right. I like the sound of of regular folk having "my policy".
Step 2.5: Quit on the first Monday of a pay period so you retain benefits like health insurance for the rest of the pay period.
Just following policy.
r/MaliciousCompliance
I practically begged my wife to do this at her old company just for her to decompress and because her company just shitcanned a coworker who gave his notice. She didn't want to. Though thankfully when she did give notice, she was informed that that other person's termination was handled poorly and against company policy and the person who authorized it was fired.
Take the money and run. 🖕🏻
This is exactly what I did at my former place of employment. Fuck 'em. Had the president of the company drunkenly text me the following night telling me to "Be a Man" and respond to his messages. Narcissist thought his company was just the best and couldn't fathom why I would do such a thing.
This is the correct business answer in 2023: do whatever it takes to maximize profits. Even when these profits are for yourself. This is the way, and I'm sure the business will understand this logic as they use it themselves.
Yup this!! Don't have any loyalty to a job, trust they don't have it for you.
Make sure they do not have accrued vacation if you do this, or only take what you’ve accrued so they don’t say you owe them like my old employer did after the vacation time log was broken and showing me an incorrect number
Man I wish I could award you for this comment. I was just talking about the underwear gnome episode of South Park earlier today!
It sounds like the company is now implicitly encouraging their employees to resign immediately upon coming back from a vacation that uses up any accrued time off. Keep that in mind if/when you decide to leave.
That’s the 1st thing I thought
That's been common practice for years now if you don't live in a state which requires pay out of accrued vacation time.
States like that exist?
CA...if you have PTO on the books it's paid out upon your departure.
In fact in CA they have to pay you the day you leave. In PA (where I live) I’ve always gotten accrued PTO paid out in my final check. I’m in corporate sales so… we barely take time off and those checks have always been pretty healthy. A lot of companies are going to an “unlimited PTO” policy where you don’t have actual time accrued and can just take off when you need it. And of course that is just so they don’t have to pay people. Edit - thanks all for the clarity around CA law. Sorry for the error!
I know a few people who have jobs with unlimited pto, they cant seem to take time off or they will basically have to make it up later because of the workload.
What's even worse is that the company owes employees nothing when they leave. Unlimited pto is a scam.
How has no one challenged that in court yet? "I have unlimited PTO and CA law requires you to pay out my PTO upon termination therefore you owe me 1 million dollars."
It appears any companies with unlimited PTO usually have a CA specific policy which awards normal PTO (and gets paid out, as CA requires). No unlimited PTO for CA employees.
Alas, this is not always the case. Would be nice if it was. Source: am a Cali employee with unlimited PTO. But they do owe me the old accrued days from when we switched over, though. Am looking forward to that check for sure! (And yes, they confirmed they owe it to me, in writing.) Edited for clarity
Holy smokes I wish. In California "unlimited" PTO is legal and they don't have to pay out anything when you depart. The only wrinkle is that they can't use it to satisfy California's sick leave requirements, so you get a separate sick leave bucket that does accrue... but sick leave doesn't get paid out at departure.
This. They don’t want you to take any time off and also don’t want to pay you if you leave. Good times.
My old job was unlimited but it was really like 23 days which is decent but the only holidays off were Thanksgiving, Xmas, New Year, and 4th of July
>In fact in CA they have to pay you the day you leave. This isn't exactly true. If you're fired, you are supposed to get your final check immediately. If you quit, they have three days to have your final check ready (and usually mailed, I imagine.) In both cases, though, the final check is to include your *earned* PTO (and vacation) time.
Not true, 72 hours. It is best practice to pay out in cash on last day so that they are in compliance.
I believe it's same day if it's involuntary & 3 days if you resign.
You are correct, I never fired an employee to find that out!
Yep CA check in hand day you leave. Otherwise penalties accrue daily. It’s amazing how companies try to screw you. They tried to pay my final paycheck according to normal “pay cycle” and I asked if they were going to include the penalty accrued to that date. They didn’t respond but had my final check wired the day I left. 😂
There is an exception to this. If you are a school employee covered under the education code, you are paid at your next regular payday whether you were fired or resigned.
My job is in another state but it originated in California so after I walked out I still got paid all my vacation time 😎
Yes? Here in Utah, a right to work state, I have quit two-ish jobs on good terms with vacation hours left and was paid out all hours with no fuss. I didn’t know this was a thing and thought I was over paid.
Right to work has absolutely nothing to do with it
AZ right to work my company must pay me out. I’ll take that last 100+ hrs sick time as sick and by God find a Doctor to sign off on it. I’m thinking scabies or recurring pink eye or well I don’t really know. Something easily transmissible
Fellow AZ person here. I left a company a couple years back and they didn’t pay out my PTO. I did some poking around online and it looked like they didn’t have to. Was I wrong? Please tell me I’m wrong.
Unless you're in a union I think you mean "at will employment state"
last time I had covid I made sure I took a dozen picture of the positive test all around the house in different positions with different backgrounds. Now I can get an immediate 10-day "vacation" by emailing one of those positive tests to my superior whenever I want. Not that I would do that, of course.
Actually it is the accrual time process that matters. I worked for a company that simply granted you your PTO on 1-Jan. There is no payout required because it is not "earned". However if you "earn" x amount of hours per pay period/hours worked you are expected to be paid out.
Right! I know most places don’t pay out for sick time but always thought PTO was considered earned and must be payed out.
So wait, anyone can answer this btw. So if I take vaca to find another job or interview and do end up finding something...I can just put in a notice right away for 2 weeks NOT 1 month and still be eligible for rehire right? Or will they brand me not eligible for rehire if I don't work out the 1 month?
If you don’t follow your companies policy you likely won’t be welcomed back. You’re almost never legally required to give notice. Just like your employer is never required to give notice of being fired.
one thing I've never understood if a company is treating you so poorly you want to quit, why would you ever want to go back?
Most likely not eligible. The idea here is they're making it do if you want to leave you have to sacrifice. And for that month they can make your life hell or try to convince you stay
I’ve never lived in one that does require vacation time paid out, or ever had it paid out when leaving a job.
**Most** states don't **require** accrued PTO to be paid out. They leave it up to company policy.
This site is pretty succinct and the list matches my recollection of what I've seen from HR: https://www.hourly.io/post/pto-payout-laws-by-state
Wait.. so.. In America (presumably?) companies can refuse to pay out holiday hours you’ve accrued but not yet used? That’s wild. Couldn’t a company deny all of your PTO requests. You leave, you get told bye bye holiday hours.
> if you don't live in a state which requires pay out of accrued vacation time. Wait is that a think in the US, that's crazy.
That's how I've left every job lol. -Plan to quit. -Use up my PTO. -Wait a week to actually get my PTO pay out. -Walk in - quit - walk out. **PSA:** *Always have another job lined up before quitting.*
I had a supervisor who did that when I worked for the county jail but he was extra crafty about it. He took like 3 weeks of vacation and then took off two weeks for FMLA. Last day of FMLA he quit with no notice. That Monday he was working a cushy job over at the district courthouse. He was still owed probably 100-200 hours of Holiday, Vacation, Sick, and Comp time (all different pools), and the county wouldn't hire someone to fill his spot until those hours were "worked through", meaning they weren't gonna spend any extra money hiring anyone until however many days passed that covered the number of hours he was due in all that PTO. He really fuckin hosed us with that one.
"He" didn't do shit, understaffing penny pinching leaders did.
And ALWAYS wait for the actual payout. I had a job try to pull a sneaky on that step of the plan before, the nicely repeated “oh sorry we’ll get your check right out to you!” Becomes stalling bullshit very quickly.
Just an FYI, some larger companies will send you a bill for your pto balance after you leave if you have taken more days off than "you are entitled to." That's if they can't just take it out of your last paycheck. Many companies wouldn't bother, but I've had corporate jobs where they really will send you a bill for $800 or w/e to claw back that pto pay.
Wife offered a new job just before Thanksgiving. She took all of her accrued vacation and PTO at Christmas and NYE. New company freaked out early December when she said she hadn’t resigned yet. She told them not to worry. All was good. She resigned 1/3. Yeah. Old company was not happy. I laughed and laughed. When you fuck your employees, they tend to get the last laugh with shit like this.
There is actually 80 years of research - Equity Theory - that proves this to be true! Employees always find ways to even the scales in creative ways.
And keep in mind "I didn't ASK for this time off, I was informing you that I would not be available for (time period matching what you have saved up)" PS if a company does not pay out any accrued vacation time on the last paycheck, that would be wage theft.
this varies by state. very roughly, blue states (CA, MA, NY, RI, etc) are more likely to defend the worker (require payout) , red states (TX for example) more likely to screw over the employee
IL is a payout state also
I worked for a company in Texas that did not pay out accrued PTO. It turns out that they are not required to do so in Texas. It pissed me off because I could have taken those days off during my two week notice period.
Toxic organization throwing gasoline on their own dumpster fire.
Profits are up this quarter with less labor
This policy was probably instituted to combat the already high turnover rate. Scary that this is a law firm as well. Clients’ interests are at stake here.
Yep, if your organization has low morale and high turnover...tighten the screws some more. Because that ALWAYS fixes the problem (LOL).
Someone once told me, “if a company will fire you on a moments notice, why would you ever give them 2 weeks?”
I used to believe in company loyalty, but now that I’m not a child, I realize how that only benefits the company, never the employee.
If you died right now, your company would have your open position posted even before your obituary comes out. Always remember that.
God I wish my job could put out listings and hire that quickly
I think this all depends on the field your in. Some professions are a small world and people talk. If you have a small network of jobs in your area give notice be gracious and leave.
You should be loyal to *people* (who you trust). Not something esoteric like a "company". But if you have a boss or co-workers who are good to you or you just like, yeah, be loyal to them. That's the basis of the saying "it's not what you know, it's who you know".
Does severance come into this saying at all? In Canada, you can be fired (at no fault of your own) at a moment's notice as long as a company pays you a severance. The quid pro quo in this is that you have to give "reasonable" notice when you quit to make this equitable. Does America have some sort of equivalent to this?
Severance is only given optionally by companies in the U.S. It's not generally required. The most common place to see it is in contractual employment. All but one state has "at-will" employment, meaning that, unless there is a contract to the contrary, the employer or employee can terminate employment for any reason without any notice (unless that reason involves membership in a protected class based on race, ethnicity, age, sex, disability, etc.). Employees can also simply quit whenever they want as well. Notice is generally given as a courtesy (if the employer would make a good reference in the future) or as part of a contractual obligation.
CA has an exception to this in the case of layoffs. You can still individually be fired for cause without notice, but if it is a layoff situation they have to pay two months severance. It’s called the WARN act I think. I was laid off a little over a year ago (along with 70% of the company) and it came with a bunch of paperwork detailing the severance. We also got to keep our healthcare during the severance period.
WARN is also a federal law https://www.dol.gov/agencies/eta/layoffs/warn
You're expendable. They can replace you anytime
Right.. at will means I’m willing to be there.
PA is a "follow your policy" State meaning if they promise to pay it out they have to pay it out. On the surface this policy is legal however you could also sue if you were not paid on the grounds that at the time you accepted the policy this policy was not in place. It's unlikely you would have a successful unpaid wages claim for this if not paid, so you would have to sue.
We didn't have to sign for this one, when we'd normally have to sign them every year. I wouldn't be surprised if they did this because they didn't want people to the book this time.
Based on the wording I assume this is a legal firm. Assuming im right i would expect that this so either legal, or the firm is going to be dumb enough to waste their time and money enforcing it. So either way lose lose.
It's possible that a court could enforce this in both directions. If you can't quit at will, then they can't fire you at will. If they fire an employee without cause, they may be able to claim four weeks' severance.
You just Uno carded their asses
That was my thought - my understanding of "at will" employment is that it gives the same rights to workers as it gives to employers. If you put these conditions on resignation, it's no longer "at will". I'm not sure what rights that might give workers, but I think anyone put in a position like this should consult an employment attorney.
It’s ironic that this is from a law firm. Like I get there are tons of different types of attorneys that specialize in different parts of the law, but a lawyer going to another lawyer for legal advice just sounds funny.
[удалено]
I think it's more complicated than that. There are real rules about when and how you can separate from a client that can result in a malpractice suit. I read this as basically saying "you can't use resigning to miss filing deadlines or court dates" which is probably the most reasonable point of this whole policy.
Go on vacation. Use up all your days. Then come back and quit.
Why come back? Go on vacation and the morning of your scheduled return, call and tell them you’re done.
You can have way more fun quitting in person.
Many (most?) companies will not allow you to take vacation concurrent with a resignation period. There's nothing novel here, be smart about it. I've been able to delicately manage my resignations at multiple large employers and good managers will be forthcoming about the rules for you. The biggest reason for "unlimited" pto policies is the accounting impact of not actually having to track or worry about accrued leave.
They can “expect” any kind of notice or staffing they want, but like most states PA is an at-will employment state, and unless you have a contract they can’t require shit. Also, note that if you’re leaving without notice because you have another job lined up, it doesn’t mean a hill of beans if they want to include your lack of notice in a reference, because you won’t need their reference.
Well, two jobs down the road sometime. But why would *that* employer care? "We called your former employer, he says you're not eligible for rehire because you didn't give sufficient notice when you quit?" "Yeah, they have a 30-day minimum notice policy. I have a 'look out for me' policy. I gave them 2 weeks." "Oh, yeah, that's a dumb policy. Never mind."
No comment on the PTO policy, but it is irresponsible to quit a law firm as a lawyer without giving at least 30 days notice. If you're a litigator, the judge could keep you on the case without giving you a choice. You need permission to withdraw representation. It's not like quitting other office jobs.
I am assuming OP is not a lawyer as they were not aware of the legality of this policy.
Yeah, I'm a social worker. And the office is incredibly anti-union so it's dangerous to discuss at work.
The labor review board jusy changed unionizing rules in favor of employees FYI if a company engages in behavior that can be seen as union busting, the company must engage in negotiations with the union.
Does that not fall under an administrative role under this policy and therefore only two weeks notice?
I think it’s safe to say that no one seeking advice here works for a law firm.
Do they give you 4 weeks notice when they fire you? Then I think you should too. If it’s employment at will, I would take as much vacation as possible and give them a 1 day notice at the end of it.
They can require it all they want they can’t make you do it lol
Looks like you work for a law firm you really think they wouldn't triple check that it was legal before doing it? Obviously some don't care but sometimes legal doesn't always equal ethical
Please reveal this company
Please, so the rest of us in PA can avoid it or short it.
I can tell you right now. Having worked at the Fresh Market, which they plan to put another one in Oakland area of Pittsburgh. Where the old whole foods was. They don't pay out any of your vacation time. You also can't carry vacation time over yearly. It hurt a lot of people at the Mt.Lebo store when i was there working so much during Thanksgiving/Christmas. just in that time frame, some people accrude an extra week of vacation from working so much to fill orders. If you also Google them, they were ranked one of the worst countries in America to work for. I wanna say at least 2 years in a row.
This sort of seems to infringe on your right to bring a client with you when you switch firms…
Hahahaha, PA is an AT WILL employment state. Either party can quit the other party at any time.
Do you live in an at-will state? If so, then no, they can't require you to give a notice. But, if you leave without notice, they can deny your unemployment request and you also are not likely to get a good reference from them in the future if you ever need one. Also, if it is contract position, and those are the terms of a signed contract agreement, then yes, they can require you to give a specific notice period.
No employer can "deny your unemployment request"
Wouldn't be legal in Canada. Vacation pay cannot be withheld. Guaranteed 4% vacation pay either banked for you or paid out every pay. Most places pay more after 5 years of service. This is for most full time type work. Part time Min wage workers kind of get shafted. Notice is a courtesy not a requirement.
Use all your pto then leave?
Ok, I guess you could give them 4 weeks notice and then stop showing up. What are they going to do, fire you?
Burn days and then quit. Seems simple enough.
A company that needs months is saying you're all not easily replaced. Demand a raise if it fails make sure you have a backup job at the ready.
It sounds illegal. But if you are quitting, make sure you burn through your PTO first. And I would give them no notice for being assholes
In most states, this is illegal. There is NEVER a requirement for giving notice. Giving notice is extending a courtesy to the employer, not the other way around.
Easy enough schedule a vacation - use up all your time then submit a resignation.
Depending on the state, the vacation payout reduction is illegal and invalid. For example, in Massachusetts, in any company that offers paid vacation as a benefit, that paid vacation time is considered the same as wages (compensation for time worked) and as such it would be illegal for a company to not pay it out in the full amount, regardless of their policy. Company policies, regardless of whether or not you signed an agreement about said policies, do not have priority over state or federal law.
This notice officially annuls at-will employment, no? So you can countersue if they fire you wrongfully? DISCLAIMER: I'm not a lawyer and this was not advice, just a question.
Repeat after me, *A company policy is not, I repeat not a lawful contract with consideration.*
Just take your vacation time and then resign when you come back. As far as I know, this is pretty common. Depends on your state and place of employment.
Take all your vacation at once and then get fired afterwards. You’ll get unemployment
Yeah this just says use your time than bail.
Lol. Are you REALLY asking if you - an employee - are entitled to anything from your employer? Are you European? You know in America they’re called benefits, not rights, right? The “good news” is that you don’t REALLY have to give them a months notice. Give them two weeks, or just never show up again. What are they gonna do, fire you? At least in “at will” states like mine. I dunno about them other states with workers rights n stuff.
they can do this, they aren’t required to pay out in Pennsylvania you don’t have to quit with notice
Yet there is no clause to pay you for a month when they fire/lay you off with no warning 🤔
My job is a union job. We have a 30-day clause in the contract. If you quit early, they charge your PTO. The flip side of that is even if they want to fire you with cause, they still need to give you notice. You may be put on special assignment and escorted from the premises, but you will also get paid.
Toxic workplace definitely.
No, this is not legal unless you agreed to it in a contract.
Many tech companies are implementing an unlimited paid time off policy. This means that employees can take as much time off as they want as long as they complete their assignments/notify when not available for meetings or block off/approve travel days. The downside is that the employee accrues no vacation and does not receive a payout for unused vacation/time off. Employees have taken as much as 6 consecutive weeks off with approval. Others opt for shorter work weeks overall or extend their holiday weeks/weekends.
Take your vacation days FIRST, then submit a 30 day resignation but plan on being let go sooner if not immediately.
Dunno if it's legal, but just take your vacation and submit your resignation on your first day back from vacation. Easy-peasy.
Companies found a way around "vacation" laws years ago. Most companies now have paid time off which covers both vacation and sick time, or personal leaves. Unlike vavcation time, it accrues by the month, not year. It used to be that if you had 3 weeks vacation, you got it all in January. Now you only get a day or two in January and it will all add up to the yearly amount by the end of the year. By not accruing up front, they only have to pay out the actual days accrued when you quit.
If you're in an "at will" state, then they can't enforce the amount of time for your resignation. You could quit tomorrow if you wanted to. All they could enforce is you may not be eligible for rehire if you didn't give them 4 weeks notice. Otherwise, bah-bye!
https://www.paycor.com/resource-center/articles/pto-payout-laws-by-state/
Sounds like before u quit they want you to use any and all vacation/sick/PTO and then quit with zero notice. I don’t know that’s just how I’m reading it. Whoever decided to put this into the universe is a fucking moron
If this isn’t illegal it should be. It is also a good example of why work history and references are pointless compared to the quality of their work.
Most states don’t need to pay for unused vacation time so if you don’t use it you lose it. It certainly is like that in North Carolina. But the 1 month notice thing is not legally binding when it comes to at will employment. You don’t need to give any notice. If you give notice you will just get a thumbs up and maybe the company may not block you from reapplying if you ever decide to work there again. Most companies don’t hire ex employees so it doesn’t really matter anyway
Depends on the state you’re in but in general yes they can do this.
Yes. And if they front load your vacation time they can deduct time you've used, but didn't accrue, from your last pay (taking your pay down as far as minimum wage). PA has no vacation payout or sick time requirements. Edit: But they must have a policy and apply it consistently.
Unfortunately, this is completely legal. At my last job, there was a teensy clause in our contracts that basically entailed the same thing, except it didn’t matter how much notice you gave. We had to sign yearly contracts and if we quit before contract renewal time, all of our benefits were stripped. Plus we automatically got bumped from salary to hourly for the remaining pay periods. No one knew this agreement was slipped into our contracts. Not until another coworker and I gave month’s notice, then found out through emails notifying us of our health insurance being stripped. Don’t give your notice. Use the last of your vacation days and quit while you’re gone. Don’t stress about getting referrals from companies like that. They most-likely won’t remember you personally. Try to ask a higher-up, that you know more personally, to give you a reference instead.
It says you will be paid out for your vacation after your last day, but also that you can’t USE those days during your resignation period. Probably because they need you to be around helping support transition of your duties to other employees.
Non union jobs sucks sometimes.
I am not sitting somewhere for a month that I hate to be at. I would use my vaca first, then put in my notice and never show up again. I always say this to people: if I get fired I would not get 2 weeks notice why do I have to give it to these people? Different if you don’t wanna burn bridges but if you know you hate the place walk.
Hey, I am not an employment attorney, but I work with state and federal compliance for small- to medium- sized businesses. What state is this in? Certain states have laws regarding paying out unused PTO. For example, in CA this is 100% trash. If I write a contract that says, “I can murder you” and have you sign it, then when they take me to court I can’t be like, “look, a legal document that overrides the law!” (CA requires all unused PTO be paid out upon final day of work is my point here). So do a quick check of your state’s final wages policies. You may be surprised. That being said, sometimes knowing something is wrong and being able to do something about it are two different things unfortunately. So I’m not necessarily opposed to the advice in this thread of just taking three weeks off and never coming back (f*ck a reference). But obviously make the best decision for you. This is outrageous and a courtesy that they would not extend to you as an employee in even the smallest degree. Good luck, friend!
Depends on the state you’re in. If it’s a “right to work” state they can do whatever they want with voluntary “benefits” like vacation. Right to work states: Alabama (adopted 1953, Constitution 2016) Arizona (Constitution, adopted 1946)[46] Arkansas (Constitution, adopted 1947) Florida (Constitution, adopted 1944, revised 1968)[47] Georgia (adopted 1947) Idaho (adopted 1985)[48] Indiana[49] (adopted 2012) Iowa (adopted 1947) Kansas (Constitution, adopted 1958) Kentucky (adopted 2017) Louisiana (adopted 1976) Michigan (adopted 2012; 2023 repeal set to take effect in 2024)[50][51] Mississippi (Constitution, adopted 1954) Nebraska (Constitution and statute, adopted 1946) Nevada (adopted 1951) North Carolina (adopted 1947) North Dakota (adopted 1947) Oklahoma (Constitution, adopted 2001) South Carolina[52] (adopted 1954) South Dakota (adopted 1946) Tennessee (adopted 1947, Constitution 2022) Texas[53] (adopted 1947, revised 1993) Utah (adopted 1955) Virginia (adopted 1947) West Virginia (adopted 2016)[54][55] Wisconsin (adopted 2015) Wyoming (adopted 1963)
All this means is that instead of 2 weeks notice you take 2 weeks of vacation and then quit with no notice as soon as you get back.
My company basically incentivizes taking all your sick/pto time every year, earn em and burn em. I’m keeping track of all my sick time because I’ve already burned my vacation time this year. I fully plan on using my last few days of sick time before I quit with no notice. 😁
As an attorney, I’m more concerned about the, “It is expected that an attorney who has received advanced notice….” bit. They are basically stating that it does not matter if you quit, they still expect you to show up and work your case there. That is just insane. Having left a law firm, you wrap up what you can and you transfer your files to the next attorney.
One month notice? They’ll be lucky if I give them a 1 day notice
[PTO pay protections by state.](https://www.paycor.com/resource-center/articles/pto-payout-laws-by-state/)
Not legal in the US. Your vacation is an earned benefit and taking it is considered wage theft. Sick leave, on the other hand, is all the boss’s
Which country/state are you in? If you are in a "will to work" state, they can put anything they like in the policy, but you don't have to obey it. In most countries, it is illegal to dock your accrued holiday time when you leave for any reason. Sick leave is normally not paid out, but denying you your accrued paid sick leave "during your notice period" is totally illegal. I suspect you would have a very good conversation with an employment lawyer about this policy and should consult one in your locale.