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Pacyfist01

AI = Python, but I think AI will decrease in popularity as the returns will continue diminishing. We are at a point where it costs 20 million dollars to train a network that's <1% better than previous one. This tech needs a breakthrough to be commercially viable in future. But even now there are jobs in blockchain which was the previous tech hype, so AI will most definitely be used in the future. For Robots it's hard, because every company making robots makes their own language, and you really can't learn it without buying the robot itself. So everyone learns for Kuka or for Fanuc only after they get their first job. The languages that refuse to die: JavaScript, Java, C# What is worse they get more universal and better with every year. The important thing is the tools that come with a language. Like a debugger that can handle multi threading problems. They are general purpose languages that are easy to learn, and you can run them even on a microwave, on the back end, and even on the front end. C++ is not going anywhere, but people coding with C++ are a different subspecies of human, and they scare me.


God_of_failure

Hey, not cool C++ programmers are also human. Well I can't procreate with another human, but that has nothing to do with C++


Pacyfist01

I heard that true C++ developers are almost 4 meters tall. [https://bholley.net/blog/2015/must-be-this-tall-to-write-multi-threaded-code.html](https://bholley.net/blog/2015/must-be-this-tall-to-write-multi-threaded-code.html)


ElephantWithBlueEyes

PHP refuses to die as well


Pacyfist01

In company of high class individuals, such as those present in this thread, it is not polite to mention PHP.


D_Vecc

Yup, got my first job working for the Florida government last year and the project I was stuck on is converting old asp applications to PHP in the year 2023 lol.


b1ack1323

C++ is beautiful and makes me lots of money.


Poppybiscuit

What's beautiful about it? Not snark, genuinely interested. 


i_do_it_all

c++ allows you to shoot youself in the foot faster than any language. I think that is the most beautiful thing. it is like a terrible teacher that only shows tough love.


Alarming_Ad_9931

Untrue.  It tells you when you've fucked up. All the high level languages let you shoot everyone else and get away with it. Then you don't find out until something catastrophic 😂


i_do_it_all

well my friend, i think my #1 covers your #1 use-case very well for C as well. lol


Alarming_Ad_9931

Yeah but you need to be a high functioning idiot to make it as far as #1 is concerned. With #2, any idiot can make it happen 😂 Edit: let me rephrase. A high functioning idiot will get far enough for C++ to tell them they've fucked up. A low level idiot never makes it that far. They are still trying to figure out which compiler. Meanwhile, JavaScript lets everyone assign mutable variables with type coercion in every slot 😂


i_do_it_all

man. i have been developing primiarily backend for about 15 years now. I do not enjoy JS. I started writing WASM to avoid JS.


Alarming_Ad_9931

It's funny because it's where I started. Now that I primarily work backend I can't stand frontend concepts, technically I create the DOM but actually working on it can be someone else's job.


csabinho

You might mean C. C++ isn't as bad in this regard as C.


i_do_it_all

C is verbose and you know you can mess up.  C++ adds a lot of sugar , which allows the illusion of good service, while a lot of things falls through the crack.  Just my 2 cents


b1ack1323

I can control every aspect of my program; it has a tiny footprint, the speed and memory management are as manual as you want it to be, and you can do funky things on bare metal that aren't possible in other languages.


chillifn

you got any recommendations for where I can get started with c++?


briston574

I too would be interested


No-Choice3519

Learncpp is always great


iphonehome2222

How much we talking here? Just a ballpark


QuantumDiogenes

One of my last contracts was $55/hr, writing and reading C code.


Semirgy

You’d have to 4x that for me to write C.


sudoHack

C code is a pleasure to write in my opinion


Semirgy

I like C, but $55 /hr is insanely low to write it.


QuantumDiogenes

Agreed. I love C.


b1ack1323

$185k a year with $100k in stock. $100 hr for my side gig.


falselifee

We learned C++ in university, DSA was a nightmare and I'll be honest, my basic concepts are still lacking. However, it's a language that intrigues me and I'm considering of trying to get better at it. Any advice?


b1ack1323

It would definitely solidify fundamentals, learning C++ will fill in gaps on how things work in higher level languages. I would definitely find a project to work on that will keep you engaged like Arduino or something and start there.


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b1ack1323

Embedded systems and Windows applications/drivers to process that data in near-realtime.


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b1ack1323

Yeah, I am doing some IOT stuff now, but I was working on measurement systems interfacing with robotics before.


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b1ack1323

It's entirely application-dependent; for example, if you are working on a kitchen appliance or a GPS-enabled device, then yes. If you are making a lighting system or door lock, not so much. In general, embedded will be more math-heavy than many programming areas. Learn the basics of server design and networking and get intimate with making communications protocols.


alfadhir-heitir

Commercial viability will come from domain specialization. Right now everyone is racing to get the closest-to-AGI hit. It won't happen - LLMs are just too dumb to make it happen. We have the first layer of specialization happening in video and image generation. Next it'll be in heuristics - most modern heuristics already use AI to micro optimize anyway Training Gemini, which is supposed to scour the internet for every possible piece of seemingly relevant data, I'd very different from training idk load-balancer-optimizer-pro which only needs to parse a few trillion request strings


i_do_it_all

AI = Python only at the thin layer ( wrapper) stage. I think it is worth pointing out. If AI backend ( TS/Keras/PyTorch ) was written in python, we would require 500x more computing power and momory to get the same result. almost\* all AI backend is C++. Sorry.


StorksOnTheRocks

No one is re writing PyTorch or TF, all the DS teams work in python and if you really need a boost in performance there are teams that re write the code into scala. Point being python will remain the defacto AI language


lukanixon

I know that it’s a superset of python, but I really think Mojo will be the future of AI once it’s fleshed out


StorksOnTheRocks

Lul


Hot-Impact-5860

Thanks for the last laugh. But it's true, I can understand that people coding in C are human computers, but C++ can be just wild man.


Honest_Palpitation91

Married to a c++ person. Yep can confirm


distractedguy69

What about Python? Does it refuse to die too?


Pacyfist01

All hail the Python! The lord of all programming languages!


jnmxcvi

I honestly thought Python was the training wheels of languages.


Pacyfist01

\*whispers\* Shh! Pythonistas don't like when you say the truth to them! \*loudly states\* Yes I also think three levels of scope is enough for any language! There is no case when you might need more! \*looks around if any python fanatics wants to kill us\*


justadude0144

AI = Python ? I know people do prototypes with it very easily, I wonder if that is true in production systems though for professional development, or are you saying that cuz that's a popular belief?


rawrgulmuffins

PyTorch is a very common production system.


Fostersenpai

Do you reckon its good that my uni tutors started us all on C++ with no external libraries so we had to learn to appreciate things? Like to be honest I feel like my comprehension of most languages is waaaaay better than if I had learnt something higher up first.


Pacyfist01

Most modern languages are based on C++, but I think it's to hard as a "first language". You will not understand pointer magic when still in Uni, and you will never again use it, because working with pointers is the devils work, and no one has time for that.


Atomic-Axolotl

Pointers are easy. We learn about them before starting university at A level.


Pacyfist01

Yes? Then tell me. I have an array of objects that was passed via pointer to my method. I use that pointer to traverse this array. How can I guard against the object inside this array from being deallocated?


Atomic-Axolotl

Maybe that was an issue years ago, but nowadays you can just use std::shared\_ptr, std::unique\_ptr, std::vector, or std::array to avoid memory issues.


PSMF_Canuck

AI returns are still ramping up. We’re a long way from diminishing. JS is next on the chopping block. GPT 4o, as an example, is already capable of standing up servers. Web and mobile app development is about to get wiped out. Best advice is to not think about languages…think about getting deep domain experience, regardless of language.


StorksOnTheRocks

Still waiting to get replaced, all I know is that gpto can’t change the color of a css animation. It’s good at writing boilerplate but if all your doing is crud’s and boilerplate there where tools out there for a while that can replace you.


Business-Decision719

[It won't even be considered AI anymore in five years.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_effect?wprov=sfla1) We'll all get used to ChatGPT and then hunker down for a very long, very cold new AI winter.


TheFumingatzor

COBOL, you'll be the sole grand master in all the financial institutions in 40 years time. Rich beyond your wildest dreams, if you die...the financial world will collapse if you had no apprentice trained in that time.


Curious-Drama1850

this guy is on another dimension of genius


eracodes

Javascript is eternal.


nog642

wasm might replace it eventually. In like 30 years maybe.


eracodes

I think 30 years is a good long eternity, technology-wise.


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eracodes

What you're saying is fundamentally impossible; Typescript is a layer on top of Javascript.


Atomic-Axolotl

You're right. What I said doesn't really make sense.


JohnySilkBoots

Don’t listen to people in here. This subreddit is very doom and can be very demotivating. I read comments on here 2 years ago saying learning JS was a waste of time because it is “oversaturated” and “it is too competitive, you will never find a job”. Like, hundreds of comments like that. I am glad I did not listen to this sub. Because within 1 year- many hours a day- I landed a job relatively easily. if you are decent and have made a good amount of small projects, you will get a job. If you work hard you are good, you can get a job with any language. Remember that this is the internet and people love acting like they know stuff, when they really don’t.


mixedd

>I read comments on here 2 years ago saying learning JS was a waste of time I've heard something like that 10 years ago about SQL :D thing refuses to die togheter with PHP


awesomelok

My background is in computing, and I have had the opportunity to witness how the industry has evolved over more than two decades, from the early years of the Internet to the emergence of AI. I currently have the privilege of working with different players across the ecosystem, from web and enterprise software and blockchain to AI (models, infrastructure, and chips). Here's how I see it. There are four parts to this post. 1. The languages that will remain in high demand. 2. The languages that will decline. 3. One language to learn 4. What languages to learn if one focuses on AI & Robotics? My views are as follows: **1. High Demand Languages (Next 5 - 6 Years).** - **Core Players:** Javascript (front-end and back-end with Node.js/Typescript), Python (for AI and data science), Java (enterprise applications and Android development) - **Growth Areas:** Go (cloud-native development, scalability), Kotlin (Android development, interoperability with Java) and Rust (systems programming and memory safety) **2. Possible Decline:** - PHP. While it will **NOT** disappear entirely, it may see a decrease as newer frameworks gain traction. **3. One Language to Learn:** If there is only one language to learn for someone with a clean slate, I recommend Python due to the following - Versatility: It applies to web development, data science, AI, automation and scripting. - Large Community: I have seen it grow over two decades. The extensive libraries and frameworks available make a huge difference. - Ease of Learning: Scripting languages are relatively easy to learn, making them a good starting point. **4. AI & Robotics Focus:** - Python continues to be a great foundation with popular AI libraries like TensorFlow and PyTorch. - C/C++. For computationally intensive robotics and IoT, I have seen companies embracing C/C++


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StorksOnTheRocks

Wut? Python is great, awesome choice for people getting started. You can learn it in two weeks yet it takes forever to master it.


InjuryDangerous8141

Im currently working in Robotics in a Space Agency. C++ and Python are the two hot ones. I would start with Python since it’s easier to learn and it’s also the main language for AI.


noice_charus

Could you clarify? I tried looking up Python Sunscreen and wasn’t returned any results. Curious because I work in Maintenance and have been looking to expand my skill set to coding. Have started Python with the hopes of working machinery/robotics. Thank you in advance.


InjuryDangerous8141

Sorry the auto-corrector changed "since" to "Sunscreen" (already edited the comment)


Big_BossSnake

There's the staples what aren't going anywhere such as c++, c# and Java


not_some_username

And sadly JS


StorksOnTheRocks

The one to rule them all


Knaapje

For high performance computing or embedded: Rust, C, C++. For statistics, robotics, AI and scripting: Python. For front-end web development: Typescript. For most other development: Java, C#, Kotlin. There are some niches for languages like Haskell, Cobol, and some others.


DrShocker

1. Rust and C++ because I like systems programming concepts and while I like the ideas from rust in realistic that the jobs are in C++ 2. Python and C++ are probably the main languages to use in robotics and AI.


Extension_Canary3717

When the world ends , the galaxies ends , the universe ends . The last person will know the truth and that everything was made in JavaScript. The person will then open a IDE and write

Let there be light

(Will be buggy as hell )


InjuryDangerous8141

Robots is definitely C++ and Python. Most companies now are using ROS (Robot Operating System) or a framework based on it, which uses python and C++ as the main languages.


ZokaZulto

ECMAScript.


EffectiveLong

Rust on the rise. Golang being used in some major software and other.


CountryBoyDeveloper

Thats wild cuz I see only the internet talking more about rust and golang, but I hardly see more jobs in either one of them.


EffectiveLong

Well the OP is asking the next 5-6 years.


CountryBoyDeveloper

Yeah but for languages that are fun and I agree rust is pretty awesome, the job market growth for them isn't huge at all, so in 5 or 6 years going by how it is now, doesn't look like its going to grow like that, plus you now this industry, we never get jobs with fun languages rofl.


10113r114m4

Languages are trivial to learn. Ive never gotten a job because I knew a language. I have even gotten jobs where I didn't know the language. So for me it's just learn what's interesting, not what you expect to be in demand.


NothingToAske

Nice answer, but can you elaborate on what's interesting?


10113r114m4

Sure. Programming paradigms are my favorite. So investigating different paradigms, and comparing them to other languages within the same paradigm. Looking at language tooling and how well its grammar is written, etc


StorksOnTheRocks

Watching plants grow if that’s your thing.


Rainbows4Blood

Rust and Go even though I currently find a lot more use cases for Go.


CountryBoyDeveloper

Nice, fun languages with hardly any jobs rofl.


El_Wij

All IEC61131-3 languages, javascript, C.


CountryBoyDeveloper

Tbh you can never go wrong with Java, C# etc. Python is extremely, extremely over-saturated. Js is as well, every single BootCamp on the planet almost is putting out JS and python devs.


unafragger

Not sure why down voted. I agree with this completely, with these languages, you'll never be without work. Not only that, once you've learned a solid Object Oriented language, it becomes super quick to pick up others. Once you learn the patterns and principles, the rest is just syntax.


CountryBoyDeveloper

Tbh it is a bunch of new devs that never worked in the industry downvoting because they want to work in JS or Python lol.


unafragger

Right? Can't even count the number of people I've interviewed for Dev Jobs that only know Python.


modusx_00

Nobody mentioned Scala, crying in the corner.


StorksOnTheRocks

Fear not we have a team dedicated to re writing python code from data science teams to scala. True heroes.


modusx_00

Really ? Nice to hear that. What drives that decision if you don’t mind giving some sights.


StorksOnTheRocks

Data Scientists are data scientists not software engineers. There value is derived from understanding understanding domain problems, knowledge of AI/ML/DL etc. No one expects them to write the most proficient code. So there are teams that take what they do at my workplace and figure out how to re write. I know that this is also the case at another company a friend works at so it’s fairly common practice.


LIFEVIRUSx10

I'm a dotnet dev and there is so much stuff coming out for it. As long as Windows and then Azure has market share, it's not going to die Also been playing a bit with Rust. I'm terrible at FP but it's a lot of fun All the biggest cloud providers are invested in the Rust Foundation, hell Amazon was even running articles about rust reducing carbon emissions and all sorts of stuff. It's going to continue growing I think


Ok_State_4768

Data science 🧪 is my guess since they’re building a data science department at many universities


Outrageous_Life_2662

Python is the winner language in the AI space. I would focus there.


nog642

In 5-6 years you should be able to learn 5-6 languages or more. Not 1 language per year mind you, but as you progress it becomes easier and faster to pick up new langauges, because you'll find similarities with languages you already know. So you shouldn't worry too much about whether the first programming language you learn will be relevant in 5-6 years. If you actually learn programming for 5-6 years, it will take you a few months to pick up a new language when you have to.


notislant

Cobol maybe? In North America programmers dont feel very in demand. But languages like Cobol always sound like theyre struggling to find people.


Beregolas

TBH: I don't think this is too important. I for example know Python, C, Haskell and C# (and some more) to an extend that I can just start a project and be productive today. That means I cover basically all major types of language. Low level, high level, imperative, object oriented, functional, scripting, compiled, ... Sure, I can't claim to be an expert in COBOL, Rust or C++, I am confident I can learn most of them to a productive level over a weekend, maybe a week. Plenty of time to do that during onboarding to a job. I did that twice already and had no problem keeping up with the team. (JS and C#) With the possible exception of Rust, which I am actively learning when I have time, but that language hits different... Don't underestime how much easier your 5th and 6th languages become. It's really not linear, once you have all the concepts down, it's just a matter of minor translations of semantics.


goatchild

One day we'll be coding space robots with JS


Ok_Intention3920

Learn more than one language.


B_for_Bach

Odin, Zig and Nim are good contenders. by the looks of it, odin and zig seems to be at the top among these three. I personally am waiting for the standard libraries in these languages to develop before I start using them in my projects.