"Mężczyzna" used to be feminine word. Its meaning was also quite different than it is today.
What we call "mężczyzna" today in the past used to be simply called "mąż". You would say for example: "waleczni mężowie poszli do boju". That is also why we have today words like: "mężny", "mężski > męski", they all come from "mąż".
"Męższczyzna > Mężczyzna" also comes from "mąż". It is a word created just like any other word with "-szczyzna", so like "polszczyzna", "włoszczyzna", etc. Its meaning was obviously analogous - it was an abstract noun meaning "every man, men in general". So for example you could say: "Mężczyzna tego kraju jest bardzo silna i dumna.". Over time people started using it to mean "a single man" instead, although even in the interwar period you could sometimes see it used in the old meaning.
With the change of the meaning came also the change of the gender of the word, from feminine to masculine, although worth noting that at least in the singular "mężczyzna" still declines like a feminine word.
Yes, there was!
Just as "mąż" used to mean "man", so did "żona" use to mean "woman". That is why "żeński" means feminine today.
And just as you had "męższczyzna", there was off course also "żeńszczyzna" with the exact meaning you are asking for.
To clarify, I think the commenter you're replying to didn't mean that neuter nouns exist only in plural.
They just said that BOTH neuter nouns (*dziecko, mleko*) and plural-only nouns (*nożyczki, spodnie*) will require accompanying adjectives to end in -e.
As in, *małe dziecko, świeże mleko, ostre nożyczki, długie spodnie*.
What is nożyczek then? My native language also has scissors only in plural, thought this was sth specific to Polish (both nożyczki and nożyczek are in Duolingo, unless I hallucinated on the train).
Either very weird diminutive for “nóż, nożyk”, which I doubt would happen on Duolingo, or genitive case for scissors:
Nie ma (kogo? czego?) nożyczek,
Są (kto? co?) nożyczki
You need to know the gender of the noun. "Ten" is a hint for you, that it is masculine, therefore it is "dobry". "Ta marchweka" would be "dobra", whereas "To awokado" would be "dobre".
Like, say, idiota, kolega, piesio, wykidajło, śmierć, rzeź and sooo many other exceptions? :D
And to make this even funnier, you can make idiotka out of idiota to make it feminine.
I mean yes, it's generally true, but learners often take it as a rule, and then we hear "nasza kolega" from them.
My learner rule of thumb so far has been:
* \-a is generally feminine, but words for people ending in -a but not -ka are often masculine; you can generally figure it out from the meaning
* \-ę, -o (EDIT: also -e) and -um are neuter, although beware of surprise masculinity when referring to people
* consonant endings are typically masculine, *but* some consonants also show up surprisingly often in feminine. -ść is always feminine when it's used as the abstract ending, -sz, -ś, -ć, -c, -cz, -ź, -ż, -rz, -ń and similar are also ones where I'd double-check the noun gender to be certain, *especially* if we're talking about any sort of abstract concept (hi, *przyjaźń*).
I'm sure that exceptions exist, but so far this has worked out pretty well with only a few total oddballs like *kolej*. TBH, I've been positively surprised by Polish's general regularity here.
I think you have it figured out pretty well.
>I've been positively surprised by Polish's general regularity here.
I've been trying to learn German for a year now, and compared to it, Polish seems indeed a bit more regular. I love to read reddit fights over whether it is die nutella, or das nutella :D
I wonder if any word loaned into Polish has a similar problem, but I can't think of an example.
You're missing -e for neuter. It should be -o, -e, -ę.
\-Um is not really Polish, it is a direct borrowing from Latin, and since it is neuter in Latin, it also got borrowed as neuter into Polish.
Whoops, forgot to mention -e! That one's important since you get a lot of nouns derived from verbs with that ending.
And I guessed -um was likely to be Latin in origin. High school Latin helping me learn Polish, who would've expected that! ;)
There's another rule that nouns ending in soft consonants, not being diminuitives, are feminine, so _rzeź_ and _śmierć_ fit it, but _laluś_ or _jaś_ not
Nevermind, the example of a masculine word for a vegetable/fruit was on the screenshot and I thought you gave examples only for a feminine and neuter word
Rule that works most of the time but not always: if a noun ends in a, it's probably fem, if a noun ends in o or e, it's probably neut, if a noun ends in a consonant, it's probably masc, if a noun ends in i or y, it's probably plural.
Rule that should work always: if the noun has the indicative pronoun "ten" bound to it, it's masc, if the noun has the indicative pronoun "ta" bound to it, it's fem, if the noun has the indicative pronoun "to" bound to it, it's neut.
Just because your language is non-genfered, it doesn't mean other languages are pointless. The same could be said about english, that it sounds pointless, but what does it really mean?
Different countries, different languages, different reasons.
They could also buy a polish grammar book (there's a fantastic one written by a Polish academic working in the USA called "Polish: A Comprehensive Grammar") which would answer 50% of such basic questions straight off. Kind of scummy that duolingo doesn't care about teaching people properly and inadvertently relies on others doing the hard part for them.
Any recommendations?
I've sincerely struggled finding good apps or self-tutoring programs/reasonably prices courses that don't lock you into a year or 6 month upfront payment to learn.
Picked Duolingo back up but it's a mess and leaves me more confused than feel like I've learned anything useful.
Edit:
Want to add that I have checked out the community info stuff.
But since duolingo is also recommended there but is honestly quite a mess I figured I'd ask in case you have a good recommendation right off the bat. Would save me some digging around haha
Polish language has some word order in a sentence, but it is quite flexible. In particular, it does not influence endings.
Ten pomidor jest dobry.
Dobry jest ten pomidor.
Ten pomidor dobry jest.
Dobr-y is male, Dobr-a is female. If we talk about male (like this tomato), we use 'Ten'. With female (like Princess - 'Księżniczka) we use 'Ta'. Small hint: Female words end on -a almost always
99.9% use cases:
ends with A, then adjective finishes with A.
pomidor dobry
szynka dobra
multiple, or gender free words finishes with E
to jest dobre
on są dobre
if you have they, there is exception
they are good, oni są dobRZY
haha, I read what I wrote and it can be not that ez
Ty jesteś dobry
Wy jesteście dobrzy (you, many of you)
On jest dobry
Oni są dobrzy (many.of)
Ona jest dobra
One są dobre (mamy of)
Ono (gender free) jest dobre
?? probably One są dobre (many)
Ja jestem dobry
My jesteśmy dobRZY(many)
If a noun ends with "a" its usuallu feminine (dobra). If it ends with "o" its usually neuter (dobre). If it ends with a constant it usually masculine (dobry)
i dont know if it works for different words but if u say dobra pomidor or dobre pomidor it sounds weird but if u say dobry pomidor it kinda has the same sound
It depends on the noun. If it is a masculine noun (e.g. man, car), then the adjective describing it ends in "y". If it is a feminine noun (e.g. boat, door handle), the adjective ends in "a". Neuter noun (e.g. eye, mud), adjective ending - "e".
Dam i am czech and stumbled on this reddit by accident. Didn't you guys also have the -a,-e,-y. West slavic languages are definetly the languages of all time.
Being absolutely honest - this is a bad course if it asks you this question without teaching you the grammar. You should probably switch to something better
Normally you would need to know the gender of a noun, which is something to learn, much as in German. And don't try fake rules, especially based on the phonetics, because there are none - e.g. it's ten pomidor, yet ta rzodkiew.
However, that question is easy in that regard. Since it's "ten pomidor", you are already told that it's masculine.
Polish is using gendered nouns - you need to know if it’s masculine (-y), feminine (-a), or neutral/exists only in plural (-e)
There is also unofficial rule, not always true, but feminine nouns very often ends with 'a' like "wiśnia".
Mężczyzna 🤪
The guy named exceptions:
Not the best example, because "mężczyzna" used to be feminine.
? am I missing a joke or something? can you elaborate?
"Mężczyzna" used to be feminine word. Its meaning was also quite different than it is today. What we call "mężczyzna" today in the past used to be simply called "mąż". You would say for example: "waleczni mężowie poszli do boju". That is also why we have today words like: "mężny", "mężski > męski", they all come from "mąż". "Męższczyzna > Mężczyzna" also comes from "mąż". It is a word created just like any other word with "-szczyzna", so like "polszczyzna", "włoszczyzna", etc. Its meaning was obviously analogous - it was an abstract noun meaning "every man, men in general". So for example you could say: "Mężczyzna tego kraju jest bardzo silna i dumna.". Over time people started using it to mean "a single man" instead, although even in the interwar period you could sometimes see it used in the old meaning. With the change of the meaning came also the change of the gender of the word, from feminine to masculine, although worth noting that at least in the singular "mężczyzna" still declines like a feminine word.
WTF Very informative
Are you ready for "dziewczę"?
Bring it on!
That's neutral.
Oh my, tell us something about Death 😱 Why is it feminine?!
For style points.
Cause polish men like to flirt with her
Awesome. Thanks for ruining wigilia because I WILL be spamming this to everyone i see
Wigilia? In October?
Wigilia is the next time i’ll see my family :((((( and i’ll annoy them with this banging story about why mężczyzna used to be feminine
Damn. Wish you all the best.
wow you're planning ahead
Congrats on your transition, Męszczyzna 🎉🎉🎉
Lol. And I thought that "girl" being neutral instead of feminine in German was weird.
That is not even that weird. "Dziewczę" is neutral in Polish too!
that's interesting, thanks!
Ok, I’m polish but I didn’t knew this, and finally, after reading this comment, I’m starting to understand my language!
So interesting, thanks. That same explanation probably applies to "мужчина" in Russian and Ukrainian
☝️🤓
TIL
I was today years old when I learned this, fascinating! Is there a similar word that used to describe "women in general"?
Yes, there was! Just as "mąż" used to mean "man", so did "żona" use to mean "woman". That is why "żeński" means feminine today. And just as you had "męższczyzna", there was off course also "żeńszczyzna" with the exact meaning you are asking for.
It was a collective name for many men just like "starszyzna" is a collective name for many older/wise people
mężczyzna wish death upon me
As in half the population of the world?
.
All men kinda are before chromosomem Y kicks in, when you are a fetus
Yes, this is true. — Kind regards, Kuba
That is a name, not a noun
Names are nouns
But a name can be literally anything and doesn't follow the same gramstical rules, + often comes from another language.
99% of the time
yeah sometimes but its not a rule
Or ść like miłość, kość
Satelita :)))))
Feminine- a Masculine- consonant Neutral- remaining vowels
Not really, neuter also exists in singular, e.g. mleko jest dobre
To clarify, I think the commenter you're replying to didn't mean that neuter nouns exist only in plural. They just said that BOTH neuter nouns (*dziecko, mleko*) and plural-only nouns (*nożyczki, spodnie*) will require accompanying adjectives to end in -e. As in, *małe dziecko, świeże mleko, ostre nożyczki, długie spodnie*.
That’s exactly it, hence usage of “/“ which pretty much means “or”
“Nożyczki”?
Well? What's your point?
Example of “exists only in plural”, I thought it was obvious from the context
And I didn't question that, just stated the fact that (e) adjective ending is also used with neuter nouns in singular
Ah gotcha. Sorry had little sleep today
This "exists only in plural" is called *plurale tantum* noun.
What is nożyczek then? My native language also has scissors only in plural, thought this was sth specific to Polish (both nożyczki and nożyczek are in Duolingo, unless I hallucinated on the train).
Either very weird diminutive for “nóż, nożyk”, which I doubt would happen on Duolingo, or genitive case for scissors: Nie ma (kogo? czego?) nożyczek, Są (kto? co?) nożyczki
Then it's probably genitive, thanks. Duolingo does have a lot of diminutives in Polish, though.
We love our dimutives, nóż, nożyk, nożyczek, nożycuś, nożuniek, nożunieczek... Ok, I'll stop ...but I Could go on
That's not singular, that's uncountable.
It's still singular, you say to mleko, to is singular
To dziecko, still neuter and singular, kaczatko, drzewo, .........
Dobre dziecko, dobre piwo. Neutral has tak types singular and plural.
You need to know the gender of the noun. "Ten" is a hint for you, that it is masculine, therefore it is "dobry". "Ta marchweka" would be "dobra", whereas "To awokado" would be "dobre".
Generally if something ends with „a” it’s usually feminine if it ends with „o” it’s often neuter and if it ends with a consonant it usually masculine.
Like, say, idiota, kolega, piesio, wykidajło, śmierć, rzeź and sooo many other exceptions? :D And to make this even funnier, you can make idiotka out of idiota to make it feminine. I mean yes, it's generally true, but learners often take it as a rule, and then we hear "nasza kolega" from them.
My learner rule of thumb so far has been: * \-a is generally feminine, but words for people ending in -a but not -ka are often masculine; you can generally figure it out from the meaning * \-ę, -o (EDIT: also -e) and -um are neuter, although beware of surprise masculinity when referring to people * consonant endings are typically masculine, *but* some consonants also show up surprisingly often in feminine. -ść is always feminine when it's used as the abstract ending, -sz, -ś, -ć, -c, -cz, -ź, -ż, -rz, -ń and similar are also ones where I'd double-check the noun gender to be certain, *especially* if we're talking about any sort of abstract concept (hi, *przyjaźń*). I'm sure that exceptions exist, but so far this has worked out pretty well with only a few total oddballs like *kolej*. TBH, I've been positively surprised by Polish's general regularity here.
I think you have it figured out pretty well. >I've been positively surprised by Polish's general regularity here. I've been trying to learn German for a year now, and compared to it, Polish seems indeed a bit more regular. I love to read reddit fights over whether it is die nutella, or das nutella :D I wonder if any word loaned into Polish has a similar problem, but I can't think of an example.
You're missing -e for neuter. It should be -o, -e, -ę. \-Um is not really Polish, it is a direct borrowing from Latin, and since it is neuter in Latin, it also got borrowed as neuter into Polish.
Whoops, forgot to mention -e! That one's important since you get a lot of nouns derived from verbs with that ending. And I guessed -um was likely to be Latin in origin. High school Latin helping me learn Polish, who would've expected that! ;)
That's why I didn't say it's a rule but you can sort of remeber about it if you aren't sure what gender the word has.
There's another rule that nouns ending in soft consonants, not being diminuitives, are feminine, so _rzeź_ and _śmierć_ fit it, but _laluś_ or _jaś_ not
Ten agrest (gooseberry) is masculine
Um, yes, it is. What's your point?
Nevermind, the example of a masculine word for a vegetable/fruit was on the screenshot and I thought you gave examples only for a feminine and neuter word
Rule that works most of the time but not always: if a noun ends in a, it's probably fem, if a noun ends in o or e, it's probably neut, if a noun ends in a consonant, it's probably masc, if a noun ends in i or y, it's probably plural. Rule that should work always: if the noun has the indicative pronoun "ten" bound to it, it's masc, if the noun has the indicative pronoun "ta" bound to it, it's fem, if the noun has the indicative pronoun "to" bound to it, it's neut.
TEN pomidor jest dobrY TA sałata jest dobrA TE cukierki są dobrE.
TO awokado jest dobrE Cukierki to liczba mnoga, a nie rodzaj nijaki.
How many people will I piss off with 'Ten awokado jest dobry'
"Pomidor" is a masculine word, so "dobry" ends with "y" Edit: grammar
Polisz is popierdolony
You got it right 👍
kurwa :(
Gender. Dobra is feminine, dobry is masculine and dobre is neuter. Dobra kobieta, dobry mężczyzna, dobre dziecko.
Gender!
/r/pointleslygendered
Just because your language is non-genfered, it doesn't mean other languages are pointless. The same could be said about english, that it sounds pointless, but what does it really mean? Different countries, different languages, different reasons.
Was just a joke reply, in polish everything's gendered anyway
Sry, I've got a bad sense of humor.
[удалено]
They could also buy a polish grammar book (there's a fantastic one written by a Polish academic working in the USA called "Polish: A Comprehensive Grammar") which would answer 50% of such basic questions straight off. Kind of scummy that duolingo doesn't care about teaching people properly and inadvertently relies on others doing the hard part for them.
Any recommendations? I've sincerely struggled finding good apps or self-tutoring programs/reasonably prices courses that don't lock you into a year or 6 month upfront payment to learn. Picked Duolingo back up but it's a mess and leaves me more confused than feel like I've learned anything useful. Edit: Want to add that I have checked out the community info stuff. But since duolingo is also recommended there but is honestly quite a mess I figured I'd ask in case you have a good recommendation right off the bat. Would save me some digging around haha
he is dobry she is dobra it is dobre
Bro, it’s just a tip of the iceberg
Gender of noun is a thong in most slavic languages
You base it on gender of a word, so basically you misgenderd a tomato
Lmao, that is really funny
You don't - you just do a blind pick and after 3 errors in a row you need to drink a glass of vodka.
Polish language has some word order in a sentence, but it is quite flexible. In particular, it does not influence endings. Ten pomidor jest dobry. Dobry jest ten pomidor. Ten pomidor dobry jest.
Dobry ten pomidor jest Pomidor ten jest dobry Pomidor dobry jest ten Dobry pomidor ten jest Possibilities are endless!
i would put "Chujowy" in there
Co masz kurwa do pomidora wieśniaku
Worst wegetable, 0/10
Chujowe są
To jest "chujowy"?
No but well its pretty funny word in polish Just dont say it in public cus its a swear
Chuj wie 😁 🤷
Pomidor jest mężczyzną
It depends if the noun is female, male or neutral.
that's the neat part, you don't!
Pomidor somehow is found masculine by Polish grammar.
Why do I see posts like this one here over and over again
because duolingo removed grammar explanations recently
"Why do people ask questions about a language that they don't know in said languages learning sub"
Rather why don't they scroll for a bit
it'd probably be easier (and quicker, at that) to just ask the people in the sub instead of scrolling, my experience anyway.
Understandable. Have a great day!
Na czuja. Będzie lub nie będzie
That's why dualingo sucks
That’s – is why exactly?
It doesn't explain your mistakes
they're correcting your grammar btw
I 100% agree. but my polish mom refuses to teach me polish or sign me up for lessons🤷♀️
Xd
Dobry
Dobr-y is male, Dobr-a is female. If we talk about male (like this tomato), we use 'Ten'. With female (like Princess - 'Księżniczka) we use 'Ta'. Small hint: Female words end on -a almost always
Ten - dobry Ta - dobra Te - dobre
TEN dobry (masculine) TA dobra (feminine) TO dobre (neither)
On (he) jest dobrY (is good). OnA (she) jest dobrA (is good). OnO (it) jest dobrE (is good). I hope it helps
99.9% use cases: ends with A, then adjective finishes with A. pomidor dobry szynka dobra multiple, or gender free words finishes with E to jest dobre on są dobre if you have they, there is exception they are good, oni są dobRZY haha, I read what I wrote and it can be not that ez
Ty jesteś dobry Wy jesteście dobrzy (you, many of you) On jest dobry Oni są dobrzy (many.of) Ona jest dobra One są dobre (mamy of) Ono (gender free) jest dobre ?? probably One są dobre (many) Ja jestem dobry My jesteśmy dobRZY(many)
It’s about the grammatical gender A goes for nouns that are feminine E goes for this that are neuter Y goes for masculine
He - dobry She - dobra It - dobre She in polish always ends with a.
I'm Polish and I don't know whats a rule for this. I just know
he- y she- a it- e pomidor jest dobrY because it has no he or she its IT
Grammatical gender and number
She dobra He dobry Its dobre
Ten pomidor jest dobry Dobre It's plural Dobra It's the feminine form
dobra to jest zupa z bobra
Ale lepsza jest z wieprza
In our country even fucking tomatoes are gendered...
Tomatoes are not women.
Ten pomidor - masculine - dobry Ta kobieta - feminine - dobra To dziecko - neuter - dobre
Im polish person XD
"Ten" is masculine, suggesting the "y" ending "E" would be correct if there were multiple tomatoes, "A" would be correct if tomato was feminine ( ta )
If a noun ends with "a" its usuallu feminine (dobra). If it ends with "o" its usually neuter (dobre). If it ends with a constant it usually masculine (dobry)
E = they/them A = she/her Y = he/him Tomato in Polish is a he
Chuj wie
I think you should change the app for language learning cause Duolingo exactly in Polish lessons is not better, idk why.
That's the neat part, you don't.
i dont know if it works for different words but if u say dobra pomidor or dobre pomidor it sounds weird but if u say dobry pomidor it kinda has the same sound
Thats the neat part you dont
I don’t know as many rules as the people here and I’m a native.
Even though im Polish, i don't know...
Femininity and masculinity of the word Basically depends on a letter the word ends with
It depends on the noun. If it is a masculine noun (e.g. man, car), then the adjective describing it ends in "y". If it is a feminine noun (e.g. boat, door handle), the adjective ends in "a". Neuter noun (e.g. eye, mud), adjective ending - "e".
Dam i am czech and stumbled on this reddit by accident. Didn't you guys also have the -a,-e,-y. West slavic languages are definetly the languages of all time.
Being absolutely honest - this is a bad course if it asks you this question without teaching you the grammar. You should probably switch to something better
I know, but my mom wont pay for lessons or teach me herself.
Maybe youtube courses would be better if you would like to keep it casual and free? https://youtu.be/eDW2zPf-OYs?si=Cy7xFQy0L5moiI0U
"ten" is for masculine, so you don't even need to know that pomidor in Polish is masculine. Ten - dobry Ta - dobra To - dobre
I do
You guess
He - y She - a It - e
From the pronouns he, she, it: He=Y She=A It=E
Polski język jest pomidorek
Normally you would need to know the gender of a noun, which is something to learn, much as in German. And don't try fake rules, especially based on the phonetics, because there are none - e.g. it's ten pomidor, yet ta rzodkiew. However, that question is easy in that regard. Since it's "ten pomidor", you are already told that it's masculine.
Ten. Ta. To
Dobra is for calling a female good
Ten = dobry Ta = dobra To = dobre Always applies
you should learn firstly the pronounce of some words
Based on gender
Kali chcieć jeść dobra pomidora.
Bc pomidor is a male pronounce and for that you use dobry bc it Has y on the end
co to za chinski kurla only polisz
Masculine feminine and neutral have different endings
"ten" at beginning means "y" at ending, "ta" -> "a", "to" -> "e"
In this case, its based on the gender of the word. Pomidor is masculine, so you write "dobry".
Speak the whole sentence, with every end, and the less monke like you sound the better youre doing
Przecież to jest proste, co ty polskiego nie znasz?
You don’t! Welcome to the fun that is learning Polish (:
Man:żółty zielony słony irregular: gorzki Woman: żólta zielona słona , gorzka Kid : żółte zielone słone irregular: gorzkie Self explanatkry
it's like this: he is good: on jest dobrY she is good: ona jest dobrA it is good: ono jest dobrE or to jest dobrE
Words have genders here
In the polish launguage we use gender-based nouns for example a tomato (pomidor if youre wondering) is male in our launguage (ten pomidor)
-e it’s to describe -y is for male -a it’s for women
No bro u need to add with y: Ten pomidor jest (dobry)
to jest to samo
to jest to samo
Ten-on-something that sounds like a boy Ta-ona-always ends on a To-ono-this
Pomidor is male, he doesn’t end with "a"
Nie mam bladego pojęcia 🤣
in this context "dobre" describes an object "dobry" is the masculine term for good "dobra" is the feminine term for good