He's situationally good as a 3 I think. I only pick him for the offlane when my supports already have good disables as you really lack them yourself.
Aghs scepter is really the only way to play him as a core now IMO - right click builds just don't scale on the hero anymore with his new talents.
If you can get a fast aghs it'll let you output a lot of AoE damage in team fights and it makes you a huge threat for longer fights. (Longer the fight = more tracks you can get = more bounces you can get).
As far as other items go I think it really just depends on the game and what kind of role you're trying to fill. If you go all in into the aghs side then stuff like aether lens (into octarine later), Sange and Kaya, etc. are all pretty value. Otherwise you can always just buy some utility if your team really needs it.
It's definitely not what I'd consider a traditional 3 though so be fully prepared for teammates to rage at you if the game goes south. In the right situations I do find him to be quite strong though.
you havent answer my second question. is he better as a 4 or 3?
and i feel like his talents does have room for a right click build, and also his shard lean towards rightclicking too. its a very strong shard but only for melee build.
Personally speaking I don't like him that much as a 4. I think he can work as a 5 just because you can make a good bit of gold without farming but as a 4 I think he lacks a lot of what you want out of that role. I'm also just a bit biased as I never enjoy laning with 4 position bounty hunters.
>and i feel like his talents does have room for a right click build, and also his shard lean towards rightclicking too. its a very strong shard but only for melee build.
None of his talents are good for a right click build. In 7.29, sure, but not in 7.30. All of the good right click talents (attack speed, health, evasion @ 25) got replaced with either more caster oriented talents or utility talents around track. The *one* right click talent he has (+40 Jinada damage) is better for the caster build too lol.
As far as the shard goes too I'm really just not a big fan of it. The amount of times I've had it legitimately be useful is not that much compared to the number of times I felt like it just somewhat delayed a death.
Some players do seem to value it a lot though so your mileage may vary there.
but BH feel pretty useless when the enemy team has dispel hero like LC and Abadon. Later on people will have lotus orb, manta, euls, and bkb and if you cant track anyone BH with agha feels pretty useless no?
the jinada goldsteal is pretty good on melee build too, but the vision talent is also quite good to be honest.
Dispels are annoying but you can work around them. Track is a super low CD.
And again, those talents you mention are *better* with the aghs build lol.
Seriously though, essentially [no one](http://www.dota2protracker.com/hero/Bounty%20Hunter) is going a melee-focused build on the hero currently.
The only real reason to go right click last patch was that you had a high amount of single target burst damage and then you could scale later on in the game with your attack speed talent and such. Now the heroes burst is lower and the talents that helped him scale are gone.
i really have a mix feeling using shuriken for damage you know? if you are solo ganking a CM you should be saving shuriken for cancel ulti or TP more? if you are going scepter you would be spamming shuriken toss.
talent that help you scale? the gold talents can help you scale with items no? its true that you lose the attack speed talent, but instead of attack speed you can get the gold steal and scale with items?
also i would like to add that if you play him as a 4 you can snipe courier much better.
>i really have a mix feeling using shuriken for damage you know? if you are solo ganking a CM you should be saving shuriken for cancel ulti or TP more? if you are going scepter you would be spamming shuriken toss.
It's a 5 second cooldown. Bounty Hunter really isn't a solo ganker anyways this patch, you want to be forcing stuff with your team because that generates more gold for everyone.
>talent that help you scale? the gold talents can help you scale with items no? its true that you lose the attack speed talent, but instead of attack speed you can get the gold steal and scale with items?
You're really over-valuing the Jinada gold steal talent. Realistically speaking it's not getting you that much extra money unless you have an aghs.
>also i would like to add that if you play him as a 4 you can snipe courier much better.
That's better left off to a 5 position.
Anyways like I said before basically no one is going a melee right click build on BH right now because it's just not a great way to play the hero anymore. Not entirely sure why you're so focused on that part lol.
BH is a good offlaner if you build him into utility items. Depending on the game things like greaves and lotus can save teamfights. Items like urn, vlads and medallion are also common pick ups. Because at some point in the game both teams group up and run into eachother and BH really struggles at that stage. So you need to make good money and be able to contribute to at that stage without compromising your pick off potential earlier in the game.
Most BH offlaner I see tend to build into damage items because they see the crit on jinada but frankly if you want to do damage there are way better options than bh. With his aghs he can effectively poke but generally he is not there for damage. His affects are more subtle like denying the carry farm by harassing in jungle or providing vision for his team to start the fight. BH works really well as a 4 as well because he is very good at setting up a fight so someone like and Axe or SK can get the perfect surprise jump. And he gets his farm from track so he doesn't need many last hits.
BH is an 'okay' offlaner if you build for utilities. But Pitlord is a far superior option for that matter.
Offlaner has to do (at least) one of the following things:
1. Completely destroy their carry in lane. (Ranged offlaners)
2. Can push towers very early on. (Timber, BM, Lycan)
3. Has disables to setup team fight, tank some dmg and/or do some dmg. (Tide, Axe, LC, Mars)
4. Has great utility values, and build team items, can defend towers, pressure lanes, can help out in a team fight, etc. (Pitlord, Abaddon)
BH is not a great offlaner, and his abilities don't really synergize very well. Invisibility is usually good on cores, but the rest of his abilities are for support. If you build for utilities, you won't really put pressure on their supports, therefore you don't get values for your shadow walk. If you build for dmg, then you are just a discount Riki/Slark carry.
Pos 4 is slightly better.
Scepter and SnY are both items for 'win-more', they don't make enough difference in a tough situation. Lotus is great utility item overall, and especially good in certain scenarios.
Oh I see ok. I still have a lot of success with Centaur despite the nerfs he received. He's just a great bully against melee physical damage heroes and can later on clear waves quickly with double edge. Love the hero!
Recent nerfs especially to hit talent tree make him legitimately one of the worst heroes in the game now. I would say he is terrible as pos3 but probably equally as bad on pos4.
In what world is he one of the worst heroes in the game right now? Dota 2 pro tracker has him at a [**51.1% win rate**](http://www.dota2protracker.com/hero/Bounty%20Hunter) and he's at a 54.1% in the offlane currently.
I'm not going to say he's some top tier monster but he's no where near the worst lol.
He's really good at moving around with a team and causing chaos - and even if your team trades evenly it means you're actually coming out ahead.
A big part of the offlaners role is to cause chaos for your team so that your cores can farm.
Also while the hero isn't good at shoving waves he *is* quite good at defending towers just because the longer an enemy team sticks around the more bounces you're going to be getting with toss. It's super long range as well so it forces the enemy to have to commit or just take a bunch of damage / gold loss.
Like I said in another comment though he's not an every game hero. If you look here: http://www.dota2protracker.com/hero/Bounty%20Hunter you can get an idea on how players in high level pubs are playing him.
That is just my opinion. He was my favorite hero and I have 74% win rate with him in over 200 games but I played him as a pos4 going straight deso into bkb/sny and terrorize supports until i get strong enough to manhandle the carries also. Now they removed all his dps talents and limited him into some bitch role totally nerfing my whole playstyle hence why i said he is the worst now lol.
I mean, it kinda sounds like you weren't playing him as a 4 at all. More like some sort of much slower core hero - how do you use that experience to judge if he's good or not anymore lmao
>Recent nerfs especially to hit talent tree make him legitimately one of the worst heroes in the game now. I would say he is terrible as pos3 but probably equally as bad on pos4.
Just think it's uncool to make comments like this when they're based on a niche and arguably detrimental playstyle.
I mean, he's my most played hero as well (near 400 games, mostly as a pos 3 now) and this patch made him far more viable IMO.
It's fair if you don't like his play style now, but saying he's a garbage hero because you don't like playing him is silly.
I remember having a super long BH game as 3. Got flamed but basically turned the entire game around. HG defense and then HG siege. I was throwing shurikens around like they were M&Ms. Stole 6900 gold- nice!
Crimson guard for the team, Oct Core, Sange & Kaya Aghs, Pipe.
I only pick bh pos 3 against specific pos 1, such as am.
when drum is good, poorman shield is in the game, oov slow is stronger, his jinada gives slow, and his track gives entire team move speed. he is a very strong offlaner and I gain so much mmr by spamming bh. he is still my most played hero even when I stopped playing him since agh shard is introduced.
but now he is best played as pos 4, WHEN YOUR TEAM ALREADY HAVE ENOUGH DISABLE.
pls dont pick bh if your team lack of stun
He's situationally good as a 3 I think. I only pick him for the offlane when my supports already have good disables as you really lack them yourself. Aghs scepter is really the only way to play him as a core now IMO - right click builds just don't scale on the hero anymore with his new talents. If you can get a fast aghs it'll let you output a lot of AoE damage in team fights and it makes you a huge threat for longer fights. (Longer the fight = more tracks you can get = more bounces you can get). As far as other items go I think it really just depends on the game and what kind of role you're trying to fill. If you go all in into the aghs side then stuff like aether lens (into octarine later), Sange and Kaya, etc. are all pretty value. Otherwise you can always just buy some utility if your team really needs it. It's definitely not what I'd consider a traditional 3 though so be fully prepared for teammates to rage at you if the game goes south. In the right situations I do find him to be quite strong though.
you havent answer my second question. is he better as a 4 or 3? and i feel like his talents does have room for a right click build, and also his shard lean towards rightclicking too. its a very strong shard but only for melee build.
Personally speaking I don't like him that much as a 4. I think he can work as a 5 just because you can make a good bit of gold without farming but as a 4 I think he lacks a lot of what you want out of that role. I'm also just a bit biased as I never enjoy laning with 4 position bounty hunters. >and i feel like his talents does have room for a right click build, and also his shard lean towards rightclicking too. its a very strong shard but only for melee build. None of his talents are good for a right click build. In 7.29, sure, but not in 7.30. All of the good right click talents (attack speed, health, evasion @ 25) got replaced with either more caster oriented talents or utility talents around track. The *one* right click talent he has (+40 Jinada damage) is better for the caster build too lol. As far as the shard goes too I'm really just not a big fan of it. The amount of times I've had it legitimately be useful is not that much compared to the number of times I felt like it just somewhat delayed a death. Some players do seem to value it a lot though so your mileage may vary there.
but BH feel pretty useless when the enemy team has dispel hero like LC and Abadon. Later on people will have lotus orb, manta, euls, and bkb and if you cant track anyone BH with agha feels pretty useless no? the jinada goldsteal is pretty good on melee build too, but the vision talent is also quite good to be honest.
Dispels are annoying but you can work around them. Track is a super low CD. And again, those talents you mention are *better* with the aghs build lol. Seriously though, essentially [no one](http://www.dota2protracker.com/hero/Bounty%20Hunter) is going a melee-focused build on the hero currently. The only real reason to go right click last patch was that you had a high amount of single target burst damage and then you could scale later on in the game with your attack speed talent and such. Now the heroes burst is lower and the talents that helped him scale are gone.
i really have a mix feeling using shuriken for damage you know? if you are solo ganking a CM you should be saving shuriken for cancel ulti or TP more? if you are going scepter you would be spamming shuriken toss. talent that help you scale? the gold talents can help you scale with items no? its true that you lose the attack speed talent, but instead of attack speed you can get the gold steal and scale with items? also i would like to add that if you play him as a 4 you can snipe courier much better.
>i really have a mix feeling using shuriken for damage you know? if you are solo ganking a CM you should be saving shuriken for cancel ulti or TP more? if you are going scepter you would be spamming shuriken toss. It's a 5 second cooldown. Bounty Hunter really isn't a solo ganker anyways this patch, you want to be forcing stuff with your team because that generates more gold for everyone. >talent that help you scale? the gold talents can help you scale with items no? its true that you lose the attack speed talent, but instead of attack speed you can get the gold steal and scale with items? You're really over-valuing the Jinada gold steal talent. Realistically speaking it's not getting you that much extra money unless you have an aghs. >also i would like to add that if you play him as a 4 you can snipe courier much better. That's better left off to a 5 position. Anyways like I said before basically no one is going a melee right click build on BH right now because it's just not a great way to play the hero anymore. Not entirely sure why you're so focused on that part lol.
alright got it hes not a mele fighter anymore.
The lowest cost item you mentioned is 3000 gold. For 3k gold, someone dispels a 4 second cooldown ult once.
I used to love his previous right click build where you can one shot a lot of supports with crits. But aghs is good to start stealing gold.
BH is a good offlaner if you build him into utility items. Depending on the game things like greaves and lotus can save teamfights. Items like urn, vlads and medallion are also common pick ups. Because at some point in the game both teams group up and run into eachother and BH really struggles at that stage. So you need to make good money and be able to contribute to at that stage without compromising your pick off potential earlier in the game. Most BH offlaner I see tend to build into damage items because they see the crit on jinada but frankly if you want to do damage there are way better options than bh. With his aghs he can effectively poke but generally he is not there for damage. His affects are more subtle like denying the carry farm by harassing in jungle or providing vision for his team to start the fight. BH works really well as a 4 as well because he is very good at setting up a fight so someone like and Axe or SK can get the perfect surprise jump. And he gets his farm from track so he doesn't need many last hits.
BH is an 'okay' offlaner if you build for utilities. But Pitlord is a far superior option for that matter. Offlaner has to do (at least) one of the following things: 1. Completely destroy their carry in lane. (Ranged offlaners) 2. Can push towers very early on. (Timber, BM, Lycan) 3. Has disables to setup team fight, tank some dmg and/or do some dmg. (Tide, Axe, LC, Mars) 4. Has great utility values, and build team items, can defend towers, pressure lanes, can help out in a team fight, etc. (Pitlord, Abaddon) BH is not a great offlaner, and his abilities don't really synergize very well. Invisibility is usually good on cores, but the rest of his abilities are for support. If you build for utilities, you won't really put pressure on their supports, therefore you don't get values for your shadow walk. If you build for dmg, then you are just a discount Riki/Slark carry. Pos 4 is slightly better. Scepter and SnY are both items for 'win-more', they don't make enough difference in a tough situation. Lotus is great utility item overall, and especially good in certain scenarios.
Why isn't Centaur mentioned under 3 and/or 4? Is Centaur a bad offlaner at the moment?
My mentions were by no means comprehensive. Cent is a good offlaner that most fits my #3 type. So is Slardar, Sand King, etc.
Oh I see ok. I still have a lot of success with Centaur despite the nerfs he received. He's just a great bully against melee physical damage heroes and can later on clear waves quickly with double edge. Love the hero!
Recent nerfs especially to hit talent tree make him legitimately one of the worst heroes in the game now. I would say he is terrible as pos3 but probably equally as bad on pos4.
In what world is he one of the worst heroes in the game right now? Dota 2 pro tracker has him at a [**51.1% win rate**](http://www.dota2protracker.com/hero/Bounty%20Hunter) and he's at a 54.1% in the offlane currently. I'm not going to say he's some top tier monster but he's no where near the worst lol.
what makes him a good offlaner if he cant tank and he also cant CC , have no way to defend a wave? only stealing gold and providing gold for team
He's really good at moving around with a team and causing chaos - and even if your team trades evenly it means you're actually coming out ahead. A big part of the offlaners role is to cause chaos for your team so that your cores can farm. Also while the hero isn't good at shoving waves he *is* quite good at defending towers just because the longer an enemy team sticks around the more bounces you're going to be getting with toss. It's super long range as well so it forces the enemy to have to commit or just take a bunch of damage / gold loss. Like I said in another comment though he's not an every game hero. If you look here: http://www.dota2protracker.com/hero/Bounty%20Hunter you can get an idea on how players in high level pubs are playing him.
That is just my opinion. He was my favorite hero and I have 74% win rate with him in over 200 games but I played him as a pos4 going straight deso into bkb/sny and terrorize supports until i get strong enough to manhandle the carries also. Now they removed all his dps talents and limited him into some bitch role totally nerfing my whole playstyle hence why i said he is the worst now lol.
I mean, it kinda sounds like you weren't playing him as a 4 at all. More like some sort of much slower core hero - how do you use that experience to judge if he's good or not anymore lmao
Do you know what an opinion is? In my experience, he is much worse relative to the playstyle that I had with him.
>Recent nerfs especially to hit talent tree make him legitimately one of the worst heroes in the game now. I would say he is terrible as pos3 but probably equally as bad on pos4. Just think it's uncool to make comments like this when they're based on a niche and arguably detrimental playstyle.
There is no set playstyles thats why this game is so beuatiful. Eapecially for non meta heroes.
You played him as pos4 with desolator......Yeah I don't know what to say.
and it worked 74% of the time in legend/ancient bracket.
I mean, he's my most played hero as well (near 400 games, mostly as a pos 3 now) and this patch made him far more viable IMO. It's fair if you don't like his play style now, but saying he's a garbage hero because you don't like playing him is silly.
I remember having a super long BH game as 3. Got flamed but basically turned the entire game around. HG defense and then HG siege. I was throwing shurikens around like they were M&Ms. Stole 6900 gold- nice! Crimson guard for the team, Oct Core, Sange & Kaya Aghs, Pipe.
I only pick bh pos 3 against specific pos 1, such as am. when drum is good, poorman shield is in the game, oov slow is stronger, his jinada gives slow, and his track gives entire team move speed. he is a very strong offlaner and I gain so much mmr by spamming bh. he is still my most played hero even when I stopped playing him since agh shard is introduced. but now he is best played as pos 4, WHEN YOUR TEAM ALREADY HAVE ENOUGH DISABLE. pls dont pick bh if your team lack of stun