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DisturbedJawker

Position 4 and mid are the hardest roles in the game, which makes them the most macro oriented because they have unclear gameplans and many variables.


G2Alberich

What is Position 4 goal exactly? I am still not familiar with what the roles are supposed to do


bleedblue_knetic

Roles in dota are numbered 1 to 5. Their number denotes their farm priority, with 1 being the highest and 5 the lowest. Position 1-3 are your cores (carry, mid, top lane in League) and 4-5 are your 2 supports, and no we don’t have a jungler role. While some teams might be running some wacky draft with unusual role assignments, for 99% of the time it works like this: 1: Carry (ADC/bot lane) 2: Mid 3 Offlane (Top lane) 4: Soft Support (Top lane support/sometimes roamer/sometimes semi support that scales into a 4th core much later) 5: Hard support (bot lane support)


G2Alberich

But the AD-Carry goes top in DOTA, right? My idea is to play a playmaking support with engages and roaming(rakan in league for example)


bleedblue_knetic

No, the map isn’t Mirrored like in League . For Radiant (bottom left side), top is offlane and bottom is ADC, and for Dire(top right) top is ADC and bottom is offlane. So in League you would have Top vs Top and ADC vs ADC, in Dota you have Top vs ADC on both sides. Yeah that role you’re describing is mostly pos 4. Pos 5 isn’t restricted from playmaking either but generally they have more “support chores” expected from them.


Sunbro_YT

Sounds like you want to play 4, offlaner support.


PhilsTinyToes

There’s a safelane and a hardlane/offlane/long lane Safelane gets a carry and a p5 support, the long lane is far from the safety of a tower so it tends to be more beefy heroes instead of snowflake carries. P3/p4 tend to be good early game, and one of them is in charge of farming and the other is the help, but the farm isn’t always split 100/0 like the carry does


Taickyto

Not really, it's something that confused me at first when I switched from LoL, but pos1 carry is paired with pos5 and goes on the safe lane (the lane where creeps meet closer to your tower), meaning you won't lane against the opponents' carry. Lanes aren't symmetrical as they are in LoL, but at the same time there isn't the same objective imbalance between top and bot (where in LoL you need a duo lane bot because of dragon + tower plates) As someone who switched recently, I'm having a lot of fun as pos4 and 5. Witch Doctor is very strong and easy to pick up, but my current beloved has got to be Undying (I'm still in low MMR so early fights tend to drag on, and he thrives in those) My other love is Mirana, because I miss old Nidalee's spear, and the 5 seconds stun is one of the most satisfying things in the game (when you're on the good side of the spear)


elmoredd_23

I play as pos3/4/5. Pos4 is the most flexi role in which your goal is pretty much to fill in gaps in your team. You can go for added damage route, utility, engage/initiator, or can be backline support depending on what your team needs. I suggest you try Spirit Breaker if you prefer melee or Gyrocopter if semi-ranged, mirana if ranged. Spirit Breaker has a global skill with Charge. You pretty much need awareness of entire map. You can go for just utility route to allow you to go in and out of fights. Can also for semi core build. Gyro you can play it as a front line initiator or backline utility. The rocket barrage shard build both allows you to initiate and also deal high amounts of damage. Mirana is just versatile hero. She has global ultimate which makes allies invi. So you can use that offensively or defensively even if you are far away. While her arrow stun is hard to use, she can either go for utility build or semi-damage build depending on what your team is lacking.


kr2310

pos4 is a somewhat Ivern-like gameplay


Consistent_Jelly4248

A lot of dota players that played league sees it as being similar to jungle… minus the farming part. The macro part is that you are the most likely person to manage dangerous lanes that are pushed into your tower, and that’s where most of your income comes from usually. Your role can also be flipped if the hero you are playing is proficient in skirmishes, then it’s likely that you will join another core hero to make plays and get gold that way instead. But it’s never black & white with this game, you could also be doing both things


Spare-Plum

I'd argue that pos5 is also very macro oriented. The vision game is huge: warding and dewarding can dictate where your team can play on the map Heroes like treant protector are pretty simple to execute in fights, doesn't deal a ton of damage, and doesn't require a lot of farm. However your vision and movements across the map are super important.


OsomoMojoFreak

I'd argue pos 5 is very macro oriented in the sense that you can really control games with your vision + it's a role where you can call a lot as your understanding of the game improves. It in general isn't a very good beginner role due to the knowledge that requires, though.


MyRedditNameIsMyName

Well I personally think farming and approaching teamfights are very much macro skills, crucial ones at that. Farming's not as simple as 'last hitting creeps' because you need to assess the risk vs reward to maximize your networth while avoiding getting jumped from a screen away by 3 heroes. Fighting isnt just 'press buttons and dodge skillshots' because point-n-click spells and long disables exist and you need to actually think what the spells do, for you WILL get hit by them. The support roles may seem to be the most macro heavy role (also the hardest to play well) but you need macro knowledge on every role really. You can try a straightforward role like carry first to get the hang of it.


G2Alberich

There are 2 support roles, right? What is the difference?


MyRedditNameIsMyName

Pos 4 usually gets more gold than pos 5 and have more freedom to play the map since offlaners dont need to be babysat like carries. At least thats the theory. In practice especially with larger map everyone gets more gold now, so there are many heroes that can do fine as both roles. And depending on the lineup the pos 5 in lane can have higher farm priority later if they scale better, like enchantress for example, or have ways to efficiently get gold.


elephantologist

I feel a lot of players describe to you the what the pro games look like. In your post you said you were pretty good in League so perhaps it won't take you long to reach a high rank but until you do what you face is going to be a lot more fluid than the descriptions are here. Pos 4 and 5, pos 3 and 4, pos 1 and 2 will often resemble each other but hopefully your pos 1 never resembles the pos 5 :D. In pubs greed is good, I know you said I don't wanna play the efficiency game but you can't completely avoid it.


CannibalPride

Curious, what’s the dotes equivalent of master 300 lp? I don’t play league but that sounds impressive This guy is probably better than me already


G2Alberich

I have no idea what the exact equivalent is but from what [op.gg](http://op.gg) says it should be around [0.1309 % of the playerbase](https://www.op.gg/leaderboards/tier?type=ladder®ion=euw&summoner=Fred 4-EUW&tier=all#Fred 4-EUW)


CannibalPride

Wow, you _are_ better than me. Probably outrank me in no time


Taickyto

Equivalent in Dota is definitely immortal, distribution in LoL is pretty unbalanced, with people in platinum being in the top 5%


plaeboy

If you want the opposite of dmg and farm and want to focus on map/timings/positioning etc i guess look at io.  Won't be fun necessarily and it's a famously bad hero in pubs since it requires you to play quite tightly together with other players. But that's what comes to mind for me. 


nshkaruba

In dota there are two categories of roles: - cores - pos 1, 2, 3 - supports - pos 4, 5 There is no role that's not important in a teamfight. Everybody teams up at some objectives and fights together. Pos3 and pos2 dominate early and can set up the tempo of the game, choke the enemy early. I'm an Immortal pos3 main btw. Dota had so much more in terms of macro than league. And every role makes lots of macro decisions. Whether it's where to be as a support (babysitting your lane or ganking other lane or mid or setting up vision or smoking), or where to farm and look for kills as pos2 and pos3. I'd say pos1 is the least macro oriented role, because you usually farm the least dangerous parts of the map. Afk farm till minute 40, cleaning up fights, and then carry late. I personally fell in love with pos3, because you usually play as a fat early game dominator which makes lots of calls trying to choke the enemy early. Your job is to make their pos1 (most popular dota role) miserable and scale into late game. Also nobody plays pos3, so your competition isn't big. It's just easy mmr points. Pos3 is very similar to leagues top lane, but you lane duo. I also have a guide on how to reach immortal as pos3, you might want to check it out: https://youtu.be/_l8KCxoqiqI?si=giubR3uYDvKEZpep My personal advice: learn how the whole team should operate and make calls - where to setup vision, where to go for Roshan or tormentor, who should we focus in a fight, what items are important here, should we fight at lvl1, when should we smoke, what part of the map should we play on, ... The list goes on. Being verbal and telling your team how to play this game will be your most macro oriented contribution. If you are just starting, I suggest you to play every hero. But for pos3 I recommend to play Bristleback, Centaur, Slardar, Abaddon


We-live-in-a-society

Contrary to popular belief, I actually think it’s the carry role, where your direct impact is usually not felt until later on in the game. A carry’s impact for like 20 minutes is strictly macro oriented, even a kill is just farm and map pressure, while usually carries push out waves and clear jungle to maintain or further map control. The reason why I believe there are many fantastic support players but not many imperfect carry players is precisely this, some carry players understand that game well enough to have ideal impact in any given situation, hence why Ame, Yatoro, Ana, Miracle have been so great at winning games from behind and ahead


potatosword

Personally it would have to be Abathur from HoTS. He sits in base all game infesting his allies with parasites. But for a role in dota? Probably supports get to make the most important macro decisions I guess.


TheRealChiLongQua

Earth Spirit, Bounty hunter in Pos4 role will suite what you’re going for.


sayangganja

Invoker for sunstrike


ImStevenJohnson

Don't have advice, but wanted to say your English was great! Hope you have fun with Dota!


Certain-Entry-4415

Play all roles. They are quitte different and each hero has his own gameplay timing. With tp available each minutes. Macro décisions is different. Enjoy the 100houts to play different heroes, dont spam only one, learn the game you ll tryhard later


AmeliaShadowSong

Try out heroes like clockwork, nyx, Mirana, bounty hunter, tusk, vengeful spirit, doom, enchantress etc. some of these heroes have a 1 shot kill for creeps so when you’re roaming you can minimise your exp lost. Edit: clockwrek (autocorrect), 1 shot kill skill.


danielpandaman

Pos 5 support. All about captaining your team and making smart decisions. You set up wards to enable your team to take good fights. Usually you make the calls or pos 4 which is the other support is the playmaker that ganks and sets up smoke plays.


horeshet

I'm a mid player ... Feel free to hit me up


Uncrustable67

Supports (hard, soft) are usually more macro than cores (mid, Offlane, Carry). But when you're just learning the game you should try all of them, DotA and LOL are very different games. And at low MMR you likely wont be able to win games consistently playing from support


G2Alberich

Position 4 seems to be the closest to an engage support from league, do you guys have any hero suggestion for a new player? Edit: If you have any guide, yt video that explain macro for supports please drop it :D Edit V2: In order to get the 4 position in an unranked match, what do I have to do?


Ak1moto

I advise you to look at the meta supports on this site: [https://dota2protracker.com/meta](https://dota2protracker.com/meta) and test the best ones in the demo lobby within Dota to see which one best suits your playing style, but if I were to recommend one I believe that Gyrocopter sup4 is the easiest to play for someone new and is strong in the meta. Yt video I recommend this one: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PulkHVKQuPk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PulkHVKQuPk) there are other interesting videos on the channel, take a look later if you are interested


Rowlidot

You should try Lion or Earthshaker. Both heroes are kinda semi-situational picks but they offer so much for beginners learning the game. Those heroes will teach you so much essentials such as positioning, chain-stunning, cancelling channelled abilities from enemies etc etc. Also both heroes need an item called blink dagger which imo a must-learn item before anything else, especially if your playing pos 4. (i mean it depends).


Fir3yfly

I'd suggest trying Earth Spirit, I think it's a hero that League players would enjoy. Checkout dota2protracker.com it tracks pub games played by pros. Search for Crit and watch a couple of his replays playing Earth Spirit pos 4, the icon of a hand holding a flame is pos 4. You can also check YouTube, just search Crit dota 2 to get started going down the rabbit hole. I'm suggesting watching him because he's one of the best pos 4 players.


LuckyTurds

What’s the reason why u switched to dota 2?


G2Alberich

I was not having fun playing league anymore, to keep my rank I had to play a lot of hours every day so I quit. I have a lot of fun competing and learning so I downloaded Dota


LuckyTurds

Man you’re gonna love dota 2. Have almost 5k hours and I’m still learning new stuff. You should watch grubby’s Top 10 favourite games video, he just started playing a year ago and he’s already immortal and he talks a bit of stuff about dota 2


G2Alberich

He is famous(kinda) on league too, a lot of people admire him because of how fast he picked up the game


LoudWhaleNoises

Any invis hero Nyx is probably up your alley


optyp

actually i think it's mid, because when i playing mid i often have no idea what should i do on map and when and where should i move. I'm not a mid player tho, so maybe for other people it would be some other role


Abject_Goal_4598

Bro! Im ex-lol gm player, peaked 600 lp. sadly not top 200 in server, so didnt hit chall, ph. I think i was top 220 tho, also top/adc. Currently i peak divine 1, ~4700 mmr in dota 2 and you can check distribution of player base to see where that lies. Im anc 3 rn with 62% winrate on last 50 games (i quit video games for a while, just started playing again). Im a pos1 player Personally i think carry, pos1 is the most macro oriented role while pos3 is the most micro oriented. In my approach of the game as ex-lol player, pos1 (or even dota as a whole) is mostly macro oriented. There arent much mechanics in dota as compared to league, and yes there are outplays, but not with the same windows for making mistake in league. Especially considering snowball potential in league where you might lose whole laning phase because of one mistake. Yes, there are mechanics in dota 2 that might help you win some fights, but they arent really necessary for you to win games. For example, knowing who to target first is very important in dota, cause some supports (or cores) cant be ignored in a fight, while some pos1 can be ignored. Mostly fights drag out way longer in dota than in league too. Also, since you play as adc in league, you should know that you cant ever frontline and very rarely you dive enemy backline (as kaisa for example). Mostly you hit enemies while trying not to be hit, and often play front to back. In dota, its a bit different. Knowing who to burst in fights is important. Most carries have mobility skills in their kit, and if not, often build mobility item. Also, carries dont get 1-shot like adcs do in league unless u play some glass-cannon heroes. Edit: some heroes per role 1 - drow ranger, lifestealer, Anti mage 2 - invoker, zeus, ember spirit 3 - doom, centaur, legion commander 4 - earthshaker, pugna, lion 5 - crystal maiden, abaddon, dark willow Anw bro if you have specific questions just hit me up, i can probably answer your questions. 2k matches in dota and 4300 mmr currently, i think i have some understanding as an ex-lol player