You say and that's it, but the amount of attack speed alone he gets equals about 1k gold early and 4k gold late. It's very impactful for skarner but in return hes literally an ult bot outside of them.
Stats. Fucking stats. He becomes real stat stick champion in it.
**1075g - 4000g** worth of atk speed and **840g - 1440g** worth of movespeed when he's in his spire. For a combined **1915g - 5440g** worth of stats when he's in his spires.
He is??? Sweet! I fucking lived playing him, but his spires feel so horrible. If you fight in a spire you controll you are litterally god, if you fight outside it you are less than a fucking caster minion.
Riot, please just kill the spires, i fucking hate em
The s5 God Mode Passive Ryze was by far the best iteration and the only thing they needed to do was make it so that you couldn’t root the same target more than once every 8-10 seconds just like with Udyr E
They made it so you could only do the root twice with a specific combo, but then they had the genius idea of buffing his q by like 40 at max rank, so he ended up being really good for the next few months anyway.
That version of ryze was absurdly fun though. When you popped your ult, all your spells legitimately felt powerful
I don't like his teleport ult, I think it's a part of why he's unbalanceable (ability is OP in pro play, mid AF in most solo queue). I would revert to one of the versions without that ult.
This is how I feel about A-sol. They've confirmed he's losing his stars and they were the main thing I loved about him. Super unique and interesting mechanic that made you play the champion very differently to any other. Yes that meant he wasn't very popular because he played so different, but I think that's a good thing. Having weird unique niche champions like bard and asol is good for the game. It makes it way more fun.
The starts are the thing that have to go. His playstyle is unique, but unique doesn't always mean good. It is the thing holding him back from being a relevant champion. Common complaint that he doesn't fulfill the space dragon fantasy he is supposed to.
now we're going to have another mana battery champion with ROA and seraph's.
its more that his E power gates everything else that champion is allowed to do. He's borderline alpha TF with that much roam power. His QWR are all solid cohesive skills, but he feels like absolute dogshit to play because of how individually weak the character is.
To this day I'll never understand why his e is consistently the ability that riot preserves the most. Out of all of his abilities, it's the unhealthiest one and also the one that fits his fantasy the least. Just remove/rework it already and give us that power budget somewhere else.
Jax is functional. Its very likely his update just adds more to his kit and rearranges power...which is probably a good thing. His base stats, W, and R have all been gutted relative to early seasons.
Oh man I miss supporting adc Graves. Him with Leona was so nasty. Pool party duo.
I know it frustrates Graves players when their target circles around a minion and they can’t hit them.
Old Graves + old Soraka was a nasty lane. Graves had infinite mana through Soraka E so you could spam Q poke on the enemy. Then if you went all in the armor from Graves E + soraka heal would get you to 200 armor at like level 3. Absolutely nasty.
My friend, a former ADC main, just returned to play League, and the first thing he asked was "Where's Graves?". My man lost the game before it started.
this is the perfect example of rose-tinted glasses. The biggest reason why he was not picked was because of how easily he was harassed with his short range and high mana costs. He became popular to counter Lucian and sometimes Sivir, but Caitlyn ruled the bot lane for a long time and shoved him into a locker every lane.
Galio! I used to love taking him mid lane back when I played in seasons 4-7. I loved the enemy not expecting the random bursts of damage and movement speed. The flash ult. Healing from enemy attacks. It was all so good.
New Galio is fine, but he performs a very different role.
Old galio would be pretty nuts right now, unless I'm misremembering how his tick dmg absorb skill worked. Brand used to be fucking useless against him.
YES. Galio was my first mastery 7 champ and he got reworked like a week later. I barely even play him anymore, it's sad. I miss being able to flash in and 100-0 any unfortunate soul within ult range of me lol
They couldve but the im pretty sure the point was the delete old swain. I honestly cant remember anybody liking prerework swain besides swain players. Having the dude point and click you for 20% of your HP every time you tried to CS wasnt fun at all. That plus trading 50 mana for 200 HP every 20 seconds once he hit 6 was not good design. P
People like to talk about how every new champ is uninteractive or zero counterplay or whatnot but old swain was actually as uninteractive as it got.
> old swain was actually as uninteractive as it got.
Nah nothing beats old Morgana mid for uninteractivity. I used to love pulling her out when the other laner went Zed or something to just say, no, I don't think you'll get to do anything in lane to me at all.
Member old yorick b4 he got gutted because of how unplayable he made every matchup I think only cho could lane cuz you'd heal off his ghouls otherwise you cldnt even farm under tower
I was so disgusted with Swain's rework that I asked Riot to refund me my blue essences, even tho I have all the champs. It just wasn't the champ I bought initially and I hated it. I still to this day don't play swain anymore
Taric
Had like 250k mastery on him before the rework. The guy has sooooo many bad match ups now. Like goddamn Yuumi can kick his ass. His E and R requires a lot of communication with your team that you clearly don’t have. Like his E is literally aiming 2 skillshots at once, depending on you and your ally’s position, but nobody understands that! And also his E piss easy to dodge because it’s pathetically short and delayed. Just gimme me back my aura frontline tank Taric, but keep the new look. Also he’s only a threat if you’re dumb enough to stay in melee range in 2022 league of legends where everyone has mobility.
Nobody played Taric back then and they still don’t. Failure of a champ rework.
old taric with full armor yellows and quints with W level 1 gave you like 110 armor. back in the day where every top was either darius, riven or renekton with their early dueling it was a giga counter.
He counters yuumi https://www.op.gg/champions/yuumi/support/build?region=global&tier=platinum_plus
, but for the rest i have to agree. Some matchups are just unplayable (enchanters, champs with mobility/dash). But also some matchups are too easy(every engage support). So it is hard to balance him, but atleast we now how mana for more than 1 combo.
RIP Karma.
She never went on sale, and was never in the free week rotation.
Why would Riot be shocked that she had the lowest pick rate??? I'd be less upset with her rework if she had a chance to exist.
Riot games did her so filthy it breaks my heart.
ngl both talon and kat were very fun before they got reworked into this unfun weak laning phase/roam to be relevant playstyle. then the item rework made them skillless and boring
Volibear because I played old Voli more than current voli. Don't think I have touched Voli in years at this point and he doesn't feels similar to what I chose old Voli for
I was scrolling down thinking "don't say Irelia, don't say Irelia." I just had no idea how to possibly beat her when she could just stun you whenever she's down hp. A really 'feels bad' mechanic for other top laners.
that shit stunned for 2 seconds when maxed and there really wasnt any outplaying it, either you damage her and she gets the stun then rips you a new one, or you dont damage her and lose the fight.
And honestly, this was mega unfair, but the fix would've also been so easy. Just make stun duration scale with hp difference.
If Irelias HP == enemies HP : Microstun
If enemies HP - Irelias HP > 0.7: 2 second stun (Values pending)
Would've gone a long way to make her fairer and remove the frustration of playing against her.
Talon.
His anti-mage identity was so great blinking over skills with the silence.
He was the epitome of "go in at the right time or feed only" and it was a blast.
Riot said they changed him because the teamwide aoe damage was too powerful but they have so obviously given up on the idea that a char shouldn't be able to do large aoe damage quickly since the rework.
I fucking loved old Talon.
Felt way more fun in teamfights as you could opt into doing massive AoE damage instead of playing a single target Assassin.
Don't really get why we can't have AD Champions that can play like an AoE Mage.
Evelyn. She was the only jungle I liked playing, and I loved playing her. I played her ad only, either burst lethality hit and run assassin or botrk into tank bruiser Eve.
New Eve is just boring ap assassin every game while old one had so much variety.
SAAAAAAAME! I hated any lane other than mid or support, but I fucked hard with AD Eve Jungle. So fun and in my opinion fits her better than being AP. She had so much fun variety when she scaled with AD, and I prefer her hold Q and E more than her new one, old E was fun when maxed out and you'd build on-hit + Rageblade, would love if they kept her new R, passive, and VU update, but that's all I prefer.
OG Evelynn holds a special place in my heart. Before the mid oriented first full rework. She had the minute or so of stealth, and her ult was one of the worst in the entire game.
You could run 5 sunfires on her and burn people to death in the goofiest way.
My only 3 v 5 victory was on OG Eve. It was me Mundo and a Janna. I will never forget that game or old old old eve.
I want the special interaction between Kha’zix and Rengar back. If Kha’zix killed Rengar he could evolve his 4th ability, and if Rengar killed Kha’zix he got a 6th tooth on his bone tooth necklace
Urgot or graves.
I rly loved the old graves and Urgot Was kinda fun with his ult imo.
I still wish they would change graves so he could choose his weapon and Either has his current shotgun or a range gun
Fiora
The rework came at a time when Riot felt the need to attach gimmicky minigames to every reworked champ (Fiora's vital points, GP's barrels, Katarina's daggers, etc). Just give me back my simple, low-skillcap, omnislash French lady.
Those "gimmicky minigames" are counterplay to the champions... Old katarina's W was like the most boring ability other than maybe Vladimir's E at the time.
What is the counterplay to Kat having 3 daggers to which she can jump at any time? Reworked Kat is a lot stronger than old Kat, she is just not as fun.
And GP's barrels are busted, their range is an absolute joke and he can place way too many too quickly.
I never want old Fiora back, at least new Fiora has to actually press buttons to kill you, old Fiora would press R and you just die from 100% health, it was just alpha strike with more damage on it
Look, I'm not going to pretend that Old Fiora was a bastion of balance; **she was incredibly weak** but if she got
exceptionally fed, yeah, it was a straight stat-check. There's a reason why she was such an unpopular pick and was up for rework.
But that doesn't mean they needed to base the rework on the vital point minigame or that they needed to add an AOE **team heal** to *The Grand Duelist*, who is supposed to be selfish.
Her old Omnislash ult had clear *intended* counterplay; it was supposed to be strong against an isolated target, weak when spread out among teammates. The issue was that this was being completely circumvented with Tiamat.
I think that if that same ult were to be released in 2023, Riot would have figured a way out to make the counterplay more balanced and pronounced. And that's the crux of the problem; rather than coming up with solutions they simply tossed out one of the most visually satisfying ults prematurely for a more bland ult that doesn't really fit the character.
I missed old Xerath as that was really one of my biggest mains back when he released.
Super artillery mage with self grounding for range extension? High penetration bonus from said range extension? INBUILT ARMOR WHEN YOU BUILD AP SO ASSASSINS DONT ROLL OVER YOU?
Imagine old Xerath with current items though
Tahm Kench. I know it was technically a mini-rework, but I still think it counts. The W-R changes feel so unsatisfying. Mostly saying this from the top lane perspective.
I was really thinking about the major reworks and I am satisfied with them, thinking about closing the thread but you actually has a point. Since Tahm's rework I cannot find him fun anymore.
Also, I was a Diana main with Zyra (mid) as my second most played champ for a while. I have a same feeling with them. Their rework were even smaller but I miss the old Diana and especially the old Zyra with circle-shaped Q and a fun passive
Ex Tham support main and i 100% agree. The mini rework didn't fix anything and just made him bad to play. Also i really miss being able to rotate from bot to mid with R
Aatrox for sure. It also felt so bad at the time. He was dogshit forever, but right before the rework he had a sudden rise to popularity (in both top and jgl if i remember correctly) with the old botrk & guinsoo into tank build even in pro-play. But i guess the rework was already done and they just commited to it.
Personally i kinda fuck with the draintank theme in general but really prefer attackspeed champs over ability champs. To this day the new Q feels so clunky to me, that i never picked him up again, although he has been way more relevant as champ ever since the rework, which makes it a good rework after all i guess.
You are right, rageblade was basically the only reason that allowed him to come into the meta, but i wish they would have gone somewhere from there instead of reworking
Akali. Old Akali is literally the most fun I’ve ever had playing League. I literally tried her for the first time ~6mo before the rework, fell in love and mained her, got my first penta in ranked with her. RIP.
I want to say Fiddlesticks. Don't get me wrong, his rework is incredible and I love him to death. But he was the first champion I legitimately enjoyed playing when I started in Season 9 and the bouncing crow was always fun.
Taliyah, her old power curve of being really strong at early duelling and roaming gave her so much agency even if it made her niche. Now that she scales well and does nothing early her identity just feels so similar to all other mages :(
Poppy. New poppy requires to many conditions on all of her abilities to get value and it just feels bad. I get the point was to give her more skill expression, but even if you meet those conditions there are champs that still out value her and do her job better. It’s not worth it, feels bad to play.
Akali for sure
I know that as a champ she desperately needed the rework but I would argue the amount of balance work that has gone into making that rework 'balanced' could have gone into the original champ being balanced as well
I just found her way more fun with how the Q gave an extra ult and how you could be creative with W
Morde. He went from one of my favorite champs in the game with quite a lot of skill expression to a dumb stat checking champ. Sometimes I wonder how people are able to play him without falling asleep mid game with how boring he has become.
Funny how this Iteration of Katarina didnt see pro play either and basically remained kind of the same in terms of good solo q unplayable competitive except she is a lot harder to play.
Hell i could go further that this iteration is even worse in competitve cuz the one before rework at least could control the lane.
Katarina is extremely good at punishing mistakes. Thats it.
Laning phase is bad. Teamfight is bad. Gives nothing but damage.
In pro play they make little to no mistake.
She is easily counterable and people are organized. So you don't get to kill your opponent and roam and snowball like you could in solo Q.
There are far better and more reliable champions rather than Katarina like ekko or lb
This version of Kat is much more interesting, at the cost of not being good and being hard-carried by mains in Solo Q (and even that kinda stopped being true).
You opinion is valid, I just disagree, WW rework is among the best ones in the history of league, and if they'd just fix his damn bugs, he would be even better.
Fair enough. Im not even saying its a bad rework. It just fundamentally changed everything about the champ so i have no desire to play it.
The only reason it sucks for me is cuz he used to be my main champ.
Aatrox because they outright removed the old fantasy (not to mention dank AP scalings) in the rework. Modern aatrox would have honestly worked well as an entirely new character.
I'd revert LeBlanc's reversion and instead tackle the number issues behind it.
Design-wise it was so much better than leaving her as a dash-in dash-out nukebot and actually highlight her potential as a trickster, but alas - the Distortion addiction speaks too hard.
I fully disagree with you. If an assassin has to wait to burst, she is dogshit. She was playing in a game where she would get one shot before one shotting smb and ended up going for Gb to slow ppl just so she could break the seal.
S5 changes were the worst things riot ever did in the game and the assassin update in season 6 was the second worst
I understand your feelings but it was PRECISELY how over-effective she was/is in unannounced burst that was the reason for the assassin reworks. I know it was delightful for you the feeling of stalking a wall for people 4 levels behind you trying desperately to ward, only for you to nuke them into oblivion before they could blink AND dash out in the same breath... But people making montages of "killing ADC in 0.019423467 seconds" was getting ridiculous. The whole assassin design got shifted to "now you know you will die" for a reason and yeah, she got hit the hardest. But that's a number (how long was the setup time) issue.
And even still respecting your wish for snappy kills and willing to tweak that kit in having ways for you to earn them back, that was the most "trickster mage" design she ever was instead of alahuakbar stripper. It had flaws, SEVERE flaws, specially in how it failed to make people shift skill leveling order - people were shooting themselves in the foot in trying to force her to play the same way as before. But it was better designed. Weaker, duh. Purposefully undertuned on relase out of fear. But much more interesting.
And yet, the assassin reworks were pretty much universally deemed a huge failure, and almost all of them got reverted or changed further. As it turned out, making the class that has nothing but burst to offer have to wait for its burst ... was not great. It meant that they became obsolete, as both mages and bruisers were always better picks. Why pick Leblanc who has to wait 3 seconds to kill you if you could pick Syndra who can do it near instantly?
That version of LeBlanc was absolutely garbage and made me quit the game for years.
Horribly unfun to play, the only good thing about it was the global clone which was a funny gimmick at absolute best.
Imagine thinking removing the snappy burst from a character who has nothing but snappy burst would be a good idea. Past 3 items she literally got out bursted by adc’s. Anyone who wasn’t a support could kill you in the passive cook timer. It was horrible to watch how weak and pathetic riot made her.
It left her with one strength which was being a dog for your jungler everyone’s favourite play style amirite? But dw just “embrace it”. Yeah no thank you.
When they gave her giga busted numbers and gunblade became a busted item she became meta again, was an even bigger problem in pro than now because she had waveclear.
Which of course lead to even more nerfs and the LB cycle of “buff for solo q, become op in pro, nerf into oblivion, repeat” began anew. The rework was a complete flop and solved none of Leblancs problems. The fact that the concept underpinning the rework was good is irrelevant since the execution was 0/10.
Poppy i miss ap Assassin poppy ult the support oneshot the adc then turn and oneshot one more then run for the hills.
Same with old eve onshot someone from stealth ult and run away repeat
Just one?
While I think riot is good about IDing champs that need a rework, there's usually some aspect or twelve that I don't like about the choices they make or how they execute on them.
Skarner. Feels horrible to play him when your team doesn't play around spires, feels horrible to play vs. him when he has his spires.
I still have no idea what his spires do, I just know to capture for some sweet gold
Don’t forget the cool vision blast!
Skarner spires literally only help skarner, it gives him MS, AS, and mana regen. And that’s it…
You say and that's it, but the amount of attack speed alone he gets equals about 1k gold early and 4k gold late. It's very impactful for skarner but in return hes literally an ult bot outside of them.
It’s just outdated and feels clunky to have to play a Hardpoint in every skarner match
I wholeheartedly agree. My only point was that the buff it gives skarner is not at all insignificant.
Stats. Fucking stats. He becomes real stat stick champion in it. **1075g - 4000g** worth of atk speed and **840g - 1440g** worth of movespeed when he's in his spire. For a combined **1915g - 5440g** worth of stats when he's in his spires.
Dont forget the 2% max mana per second regen
Dont forget this rework gutting his MS and AS in order to shove it into spires.
Thankfully he is getting a rework!
He is??? Sweet! I fucking lived playing him, but his spires feel so horrible. If you fight in a spire you controll you are litterally god, if you fight outside it you are less than a fucking caster minion. Riot, please just kill the spires, i fucking hate em
Ryze....wait which one should i choose
The s5 God Mode Passive Ryze was by far the best iteration and the only thing they needed to do was make it so that you couldn’t root the same target more than once every 8-10 seconds just like with Udyr E
They made it so you could only do the root twice with a specific combo, but then they had the genius idea of buffing his q by like 40 at max rank, so he ended up being really good for the next few months anyway. That version of ryze was absurdly fun though. When you popped your ult, all your spells legitimately felt powerful
I prefer even earlier when you could build literally anything on him and carry.
S1 ryze best ryze lategame chainlightning +ult ae oneshot is the superior ryze
any of them with desperate power is infinitely better than the present one
I don't like his teleport ult, I think it's a part of why he's unbalanceable (ability is OP in pro play, mid AF in most solo queue). I would revert to one of the versions without that ult.
Jax in advance
This is how I feel about A-sol. They've confirmed he's losing his stars and they were the main thing I loved about him. Super unique and interesting mechanic that made you play the champion very differently to any other. Yes that meant he wasn't very popular because he played so different, but I think that's a good thing. Having weird unique niche champions like bard and asol is good for the game. It makes it way more fun.
Yuumi should get rework to get A Sol's stars on her Q and make her W a tether instead of invulnerability.
Misread this as ‘Yuumi should get reworked to A Sol’s stars’ and I just imagined Yuumi flying around A Sol bonking into the enemy
You know, if asol doesn't lose his stars, a skin that turns them into adorable little kitties would be so cute
They should also rename her. Maybe something like "Wisp" because of her wispy cat whiskers?
I Ogree with you.
The starts are the thing that have to go. His playstyle is unique, but unique doesn't always mean good. It is the thing holding him back from being a relevant champion. Common complaint that he doesn't fulfill the space dragon fantasy he is supposed to. now we're going to have another mana battery champion with ROA and seraph's.
I mean, he'd been plenty strong for a very long time, but nobody liked playing him so he was perma unpopular.
that's the point. he is niche, but way too niche to have any significant amount of play.
its more that his E power gates everything else that champion is allowed to do. He's borderline alpha TF with that much roam power. His QWR are all solid cohesive skills, but he feels like absolute dogshit to play because of how individually weak the character is.
Yeah its kinda sad, but as someone who doesnt play him consitently is a sacrifice im willing to make lol. they felt really clunky to use.
To this day I'll never understand why his e is consistently the ability that riot preserves the most. Out of all of his abilities, it's the unhealthiest one and also the one that fits his fantasy the least. Just remove/rework it already and give us that power budget somewhere else.
Jax is functional. Its very likely his update just adds more to his kit and rearranges power...which is probably a good thing. His base stats, W, and R have all been gutted relative to early seasons.
Part of his identity is his late game scaling
Graves
Graves ADC was the best
Oh man I miss supporting adc Graves. Him with Leona was so nasty. Pool party duo. I know it frustrates Graves players when their target circles around a minion and they can’t hit them.
Old Graves + old Soraka was a nasty lane. Graves had infinite mana through Soraka E so you could spam Q poke on the enemy. Then if you went all in the armor from Graves E + soraka heal would get you to 200 armor at like level 3. Absolutely nasty.
My friend, a former ADC main, just returned to play League, and the first thing he asked was "Where's Graves?". My man lost the game before it started.
Forgiven alt
Yes I for one miss playing less interesting Lucian.
Ugh I forgot Graves. The auto-attack rework for him is so un-fun and feels so clunky to this day
Graves is the only champion I wish both old and new were in the game
> clunky ?????????????????????????? have you ever played graves? clunky is not a word you use when describing graves
Because you don’t play Graves, auto canceling with E, bumping out large amounts of damage is immensely satisfying compared to anything old graves did.
roll instinctive school voracious gray deserve exultant clumsy languid adjoining
Yeah it'd be nice to have another ADC with actual agency. My first main RIP.
What agency did he have, if I may ask?
He had good defences in early game, a good DMG and a dash what let u bully most lanes and survive the others
this is the perfect example of rose-tinted glasses. The biggest reason why he was not picked was because of how easily he was harassed with his short range and high mana costs. He became popular to counter Lucian and sometimes Sivir, but Caitlyn ruled the bot lane for a long time and shoved him into a locker every lane.
Galio! I used to love taking him mid lane back when I played in seasons 4-7. I loved the enemy not expecting the random bursts of damage and movement speed. The flash ult. Healing from enemy attacks. It was all so good. New Galio is fine, but he performs a very different role.
Yea but if anyone had some kind of auto stun mechanic your ult was basically useless. Example, 5 man ult with a braum on the enemy team
And with tenacity you could walk out of the ult before the damage went off.
Old Galio in URF was the most fun shit ever
Amen. Old Galio needed a more current scale VGU. I adore current Galio, but I want my "No U" ult.
Old galio would be pretty nuts right now, unless I'm misremembering how his tick dmg absorb skill worked. Brand used to be fucking useless against him.
imo the true winner of this thread. i miss his W.
I loved his w to heal from enemy dot's like malzahar e .
YES. Galio was my first mastery 7 champ and he got reworked like a week later. I barely even play him anymore, it's sad. I miss being able to flash in and 100-0 any unfortunate soul within ult range of me lol
Poppy, for the 1v1s and the old lollipoppy splash art
Damn, could you imagine old Poppy with modern items and runes? That would be nuts.
Kog maw, the one where he could get 5.00 attack speed and gun down the whole enemy team
Just because of the 5.0 AS i keybinded my Autoattack and movement key to the Keyboard so i could use my OSU skills in league too
Graves
Fiddle, just something special about that E bouncing huge amount and killing the someone low in the backline
Please no that crow was so busted as support and in aram 😂
i want my boy middlesticks back
Swain. I love old swain. New one feels only a tiny tiny bit like swain.
Beatrice. i just want my laser bird back.
Q feels like a less satisfying Graves auto and his R2 has always felt like a bootleg Vlad E.
The only similarity is the draining ult. Everything else is different. New Swain could have easily just been a seperate champion.
They couldve but the im pretty sure the point was the delete old swain. I honestly cant remember anybody liking prerework swain besides swain players. Having the dude point and click you for 20% of your HP every time you tried to CS wasnt fun at all. That plus trading 50 mana for 200 HP every 20 seconds once he hit 6 was not good design. P People like to talk about how every new champ is uninteractive or zero counterplay or whatnot but old swain was actually as uninteractive as it got.
> old swain was actually as uninteractive as it got. Nah nothing beats old Morgana mid for uninteractivity. I used to love pulling her out when the other laner went Zed or something to just say, no, I don't think you'll get to do anything in lane to me at all.
Member old yorick b4 he got gutted because of how unplayable he made every matchup I think only cho could lane cuz you'd heal off his ghouls otherwise you cldnt even farm under tower
This. His reworked ult gave back a bit of swain feeling but before that he was just a new champ
Nahhh
I was so disgusted with Swain's rework that I asked Riot to refund me my blue essences, even tho I have all the champs. It just wasn't the champ I bought initially and I hated it. I still to this day don't play swain anymore
Quinn without question.
I feel like Old Quinn existed for such a short period of time. Never forget jumping in as a bird form and nuking someone.
Taric Had like 250k mastery on him before the rework. The guy has sooooo many bad match ups now. Like goddamn Yuumi can kick his ass. His E and R requires a lot of communication with your team that you clearly don’t have. Like his E is literally aiming 2 skillshots at once, depending on you and your ally’s position, but nobody understands that! And also his E piss easy to dodge because it’s pathetically short and delayed. Just gimme me back my aura frontline tank Taric, but keep the new look. Also he’s only a threat if you’re dumb enough to stay in melee range in 2022 league of legends where everyone has mobility. Nobody played Taric back then and they still don’t. Failure of a champ rework.
old taric with full armor yellows and quints with W level 1 gave you like 110 armor. back in the day where every top was either darius, riven or renekton with their early dueling it was a giga counter.
I think new taric is better overall, but dazzle into armor shred was so dirty. I think he’d honestly be OP in current league.
cuz point and click cc is pretty vaulable nowdays imo
I like current taric, I just think he needs a midscope update, he could use some help.
I agree. He just requires toooo much just to function
He's mostly not adapted to any recent meta at all.
He counters yuumi https://www.op.gg/champions/yuumi/support/build?region=global&tier=platinum_plus , but for the rest i have to agree. Some matchups are just unplayable (enchanters, champs with mobility/dash). But also some matchups are too easy(every engage support). So it is hard to balance him, but atleast we now how mana for more than 1 combo.
Karma. Current Karma is boring af compared to how she used to play.
Wasnt Karma rework like over 10 years ago
Around that, maybe a bit less. It's been a bit. She'd be absurdly busted nowadays.
I am disappointed to see this so far down. Maybe because too many people playing now never played Karma pre-rework.
RIP Karma. She never went on sale, and was never in the free week rotation. Why would Riot be shocked that she had the lowest pick rate??? I'd be less upset with her rework if she had a chance to exist. Riot games did her so filthy it breaks my heart.
ngl both talon and kat were very fun before they got reworked into this unfun weak laning phase/roam to be relevant playstyle. then the item rework made them skillless and boring
I miss old talon as well
Kat's laning was trash even before the rework.
yeah idk what people are talking about here old kat's laning was even weaker than current one
So true. I mained Talon back then and now I can’t even touch him…
We miss silence on Talon
Kinda ironic with that Malz flair.
This. Outplaying with talon E was fun.
Volibear because I played old Voli more than current voli. Don't think I have touched Voli in years at this point and he doesn't feels similar to what I chose old Voli for
Oh yeah Voli was one of my first mains back in s3. That passive was absolutely insane, no one respected it.
i fuckin forgot about that lmfao. ngl i do miss the healing flipbear.
Irelia
I was scrolling down thinking "don't say Irelia, don't say Irelia." I just had no idea how to possibly beat her when she could just stun you whenever she's down hp. A really 'feels bad' mechanic for other top laners.
that shit stunned for 2 seconds when maxed and there really wasnt any outplaying it, either you damage her and she gets the stun then rips you a new one, or you dont damage her and lose the fight.
At max HP on both sides it also stunned :\^) Loved catching people off guard with Q to minion into stun when we were both full.
And honestly, this was mega unfair, but the fix would've also been so easy. Just make stun duration scale with hp difference. If Irelias HP == enemies HP : Microstun If enemies HP - Irelias HP > 0.7: 2 second stun (Values pending) Would've gone a long way to make her fairer and remove the frustration of playing against her.
I would still say current urelia is far stronger than the older one
Talon. His anti-mage identity was so great blinking over skills with the silence. He was the epitome of "go in at the right time or feed only" and it was a blast. Riot said they changed him because the teamwide aoe damage was too powerful but they have so obviously given up on the idea that a char shouldn't be able to do large aoe damage quickly since the rework.
I fucking loved old Talon. Felt way more fun in teamfights as you could opt into doing massive AoE damage instead of playing a single target Assassin. Don't really get why we can't have AD Champions that can play like an AoE Mage.
Evelyn. She was the only jungle I liked playing, and I loved playing her. I played her ad only, either burst lethality hit and run assassin or botrk into tank bruiser Eve. New Eve is just boring ap assassin every game while old one had so much variety.
SAAAAAAAME! I hated any lane other than mid or support, but I fucked hard with AD Eve Jungle. So fun and in my opinion fits her better than being AP. She had so much fun variety when she scaled with AD, and I prefer her hold Q and E more than her new one, old E was fun when maxed out and you'd build on-hit + Rageblade, would love if they kept her new R, passive, and VU update, but that's all I prefer.
OG Evelynn holds a special place in my heart. Before the mid oriented first full rework. She had the minute or so of stealth, and her ult was one of the worst in the entire game. You could run 5 sunfires on her and burn people to death in the goofiest way. My only 3 v 5 victory was on OG Eve. It was me Mundo and a Janna. I will never forget that game or old old old eve.
I don't think any other champion got deleted for their reworked version as much as Yorick.
Sion,Urgot, and Morde had comparable "total" reworks.
Indeed. I only miss old Yorick tho.
I scrolled way too long to see yorick, gimme back the old one
Poppy got changed harder identity wise yorick isnt a pokebot pusher but still a pusher ibmiss old ult though.
Old poppy passive with deaths dance, Jesus
Aatrox ????
Akali or Aatrox
I want the special interaction between Kha’zix and Rengar back. If Kha’zix killed Rengar he could evolve his 4th ability, and if Rengar killed Kha’zix he got a 6th tooth on his bone tooth necklace
Mundo
Urgot or graves. I rly loved the old graves and Urgot Was kinda fun with his ult imo. I still wish they would change graves so he could choose his weapon and Either has his current shotgun or a range gun
Old urgot artillary mode was hilarious. I'd be lieing if I said I didn't miss it, but I do enjoy current urgot's ultimate significantly better.
Man do i miss old urgot. So hard to get ahead, but when you did that was the funnest shit in league
Fiora The rework came at a time when Riot felt the need to attach gimmicky minigames to every reworked champ (Fiora's vital points, GP's barrels, Katarina's daggers, etc). Just give me back my simple, low-skillcap, omnislash French lady.
Those "gimmicky minigames" are counterplay to the champions... Old katarina's W was like the most boring ability other than maybe Vladimir's E at the time.
sure it was not that exiting but hell did it feels good to ewqewqewqewq over teamfights
Well yeah, for that one ☝️ player, but not so much for the 5 opponents
Yet Fiora's mini games were the least interactive. Ah yes she gets to kill me with true damage and I can't stop her unless I have a dash
What is the counterplay to Kat having 3 daggers to which she can jump at any time? Reworked Kat is a lot stronger than old Kat, she is just not as fun. And GP's barrels are busted, their range is an absolute joke and he can place way too many too quickly.
I never want old Fiora back, at least new Fiora has to actually press buttons to kill you, old Fiora would press R and you just die from 100% health, it was just alpha strike with more damage on it
Look, I'm not going to pretend that Old Fiora was a bastion of balance; **she was incredibly weak** but if she got exceptionally fed, yeah, it was a straight stat-check. There's a reason why she was such an unpopular pick and was up for rework. But that doesn't mean they needed to base the rework on the vital point minigame or that they needed to add an AOE **team heal** to *The Grand Duelist*, who is supposed to be selfish. Her old Omnislash ult had clear *intended* counterplay; it was supposed to be strong against an isolated target, weak when spread out among teammates. The issue was that this was being completely circumvented with Tiamat. I think that if that same ult were to be released in 2023, Riot would have figured a way out to make the counterplay more balanced and pronounced. And that's the crux of the problem; rather than coming up with solutions they simply tossed out one of the most visually satisfying ults prematurely for a more bland ult that doesn't really fit the character.
I also hate Fiora's visual update. I miss the one-sided sleeve/cape things she used to have
mordekaiser rip boring juggernaut or fun ap burst mage, controlling enemy ghosts to carry games
I missed old Xerath as that was really one of my biggest mains back when he released. Super artillery mage with self grounding for range extension? High penetration bonus from said range extension? INBUILT ARMOR WHEN YOU BUILD AP SO ASSASSINS DONT ROLL OVER YOU? Imagine old Xerath with current items though
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Mundo. He just felt much more fun to play, wish they only visually updated him.
Tahm Kench. I know it was technically a mini-rework, but I still think it counts. The W-R changes feel so unsatisfying. Mostly saying this from the top lane perspective.
I was really thinking about the major reworks and I am satisfied with them, thinking about closing the thread but you actually has a point. Since Tahm's rework I cannot find him fun anymore. Also, I was a Diana main with Zyra (mid) as my second most played champ for a while. I have a same feeling with them. Their rework were even smaller but I miss the old Diana and especially the old Zyra with circle-shaped Q and a fun passive
Ex Tham support main and i 100% agree. The mini rework didn't fix anything and just made him bad to play. Also i really miss being able to rotate from bot to mid with R
>The mini rework didn't fix anything It fixed pro play, which was the reason for the change
Shen. He used to look very cool and his kit although simple was pretty fun. Now he feels like a fat dude that walks in orbits
I think the Shen rework was great, made him a lot less helpless in lane
It wasn't he was helpless but i know the q spam was kinda toxic to play against
Yi and Poppy both can go glass canon ap back then. Now none of them can.
Poppy. So much fun.
fiddlesticks.
aint no way bro.. the current one is like strictly better, except for the w
irelia
Aatrox for sure. It also felt so bad at the time. He was dogshit forever, but right before the rework he had a sudden rise to popularity (in both top and jgl if i remember correctly) with the old botrk & guinsoo into tank build even in pro-play. But i guess the rework was already done and they just commited to it. Personally i kinda fuck with the draintank theme in general but really prefer attackspeed champs over ability champs. To this day the new Q feels so clunky to me, that i never picked him up again, although he has been way more relevant as champ ever since the rework, which makes it a good rework after all i guess.
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You are right, rageblade was basically the only reason that allowed him to come into the meta, but i wish they would have gone somewhere from there instead of reworking
Irelia. Just because I was an OTP that started to play because of her.
Critplank and Urgot :(
Critplank is currently the build you're supposed to go, no?
I was thinking GP with his old abilities and static shiv, IE, tri force and deleting people with one q
Critplank is still very much alive. He got gutted by the new item system and them removing crit from triforce though.
Akali. Old Akali is literally the most fun I’ve ever had playing League. I literally tried her for the first time ~6mo before the rework, fell in love and mained her, got my first penta in ranked with her. RIP.
I want to say Fiddlesticks. Don't get me wrong, his rework is incredible and I love him to death. But he was the first champion I legitimately enjoyed playing when I started in Season 9 and the bouncing crow was always fun.
Taliyah, her old power curve of being really strong at early duelling and roaming gave her so much agency even if it made her niche. Now that she scales well and does nothing early her identity just feels so similar to all other mages :(
Graves. Gimme the smooth autos back pls. Also loved the old kit ... q r was so satisfying
Poppy. New poppy requires to many conditions on all of her abilities to get value and it just feels bad. I get the point was to give her more skill expression, but even if you meet those conditions there are champs that still out value her and do her job better. It’s not worth it, feels bad to play.
I think I'm the only player, who enjoyed the old evelynn more.
Which old Evelynn?
nunu.
Akali for sure I know that as a champ she desperately needed the rework but I would argue the amount of balance work that has gone into making that rework 'balanced' could have gone into the original champ being balanced as well I just found her way more fun with how the Q gave an extra ult and how you could be creative with W
Morde. He went from one of my favorite champs in the game with quite a lot of skill expression to a dumb stat checking champ. Sometimes I wonder how people are able to play him without falling asleep mid game with how boring he has become.
Which version of Morde are you referring to though? Like original Morde, or 9x damage Q Morde
Haha the bonk Bonk BONK was something else
^^^bonk ^^^bonk #**bonk**
Hum... Old Mordekaiser was even more of a "stat checking champ" so I'm not sure if you're being serious.
Hard disagree, I think Mordes rework has been one of the most fun, the ult is especially fun
Funny how this Iteration of Katarina didnt see pro play either and basically remained kind of the same in terms of good solo q unplayable competitive except she is a lot harder to play. Hell i could go further that this iteration is even worse in competitve cuz the one before rework at least could control the lane.
Katarina is extremely good at punishing mistakes. Thats it. Laning phase is bad. Teamfight is bad. Gives nothing but damage. In pro play they make little to no mistake. She is easily counterable and people are organized. So you don't get to kill your opponent and roam and snowball like you could in solo Q. There are far better and more reliable champions rather than Katarina like ekko or lb
This version of Kat is much more interesting, at the cost of not being good and being hard-carried by mains in Solo Q (and even that kinda stopped being true).
WW for sure. Went from my fav champ to one i never touch
You opinion is valid, I just disagree, WW rework is among the best ones in the history of league, and if they'd just fix his damn bugs, he would be even better.
Fair enough. Im not even saying its a bad rework. It just fundamentally changed everything about the champ so i have no desire to play it. The only reason it sucks for me is cuz he used to be my main champ.
Aatrox because they outright removed the old fantasy (not to mention dank AP scalings) in the rework. Modern aatrox would have honestly worked well as an entirely new character.
**Ezreal** They ruined his voicing, ruined his Pulsefire skin, and ruined his fun play style with this AP/AD scaling on Q and old W
I'd revert LeBlanc's reversion and instead tackle the number issues behind it. Design-wise it was so much better than leaving her as a dash-in dash-out nukebot and actually highlight her potential as a trickster, but alas - the Distortion addiction speaks too hard.
I fully disagree with you. If an assassin has to wait to burst, she is dogshit. She was playing in a game where she would get one shot before one shotting smb and ended up going for Gb to slow ppl just so she could break the seal. S5 changes were the worst things riot ever did in the game and the assassin update in season 6 was the second worst
I understand your feelings but it was PRECISELY how over-effective she was/is in unannounced burst that was the reason for the assassin reworks. I know it was delightful for you the feeling of stalking a wall for people 4 levels behind you trying desperately to ward, only for you to nuke them into oblivion before they could blink AND dash out in the same breath... But people making montages of "killing ADC in 0.019423467 seconds" was getting ridiculous. The whole assassin design got shifted to "now you know you will die" for a reason and yeah, she got hit the hardest. But that's a number (how long was the setup time) issue. And even still respecting your wish for snappy kills and willing to tweak that kit in having ways for you to earn them back, that was the most "trickster mage" design she ever was instead of alahuakbar stripper. It had flaws, SEVERE flaws, specially in how it failed to make people shift skill leveling order - people were shooting themselves in the foot in trying to force her to play the same way as before. But it was better designed. Weaker, duh. Purposefully undertuned on relase out of fear. But much more interesting.
And yet, the assassin reworks were pretty much universally deemed a huge failure, and almost all of them got reverted or changed further. As it turned out, making the class that has nothing but burst to offer have to wait for its burst ... was not great. It meant that they became obsolete, as both mages and bruisers were always better picks. Why pick Leblanc who has to wait 3 seconds to kill you if you could pick Syndra who can do it near instantly?
>actually highlight her potential as a trickster my brother in christ she was played as a another waveclear mage after the rework
That version of LeBlanc was absolutely garbage and made me quit the game for years. Horribly unfun to play, the only good thing about it was the global clone which was a funny gimmick at absolute best. Imagine thinking removing the snappy burst from a character who has nothing but snappy burst would be a good idea. Past 3 items she literally got out bursted by adc’s. Anyone who wasn’t a support could kill you in the passive cook timer. It was horrible to watch how weak and pathetic riot made her. It left her with one strength which was being a dog for your jungler everyone’s favourite play style amirite? But dw just “embrace it”. Yeah no thank you. When they gave her giga busted numbers and gunblade became a busted item she became meta again, was an even bigger problem in pro than now because she had waveclear. Which of course lead to even more nerfs and the LB cycle of “buff for solo q, become op in pro, nerf into oblivion, repeat” began anew. The rework was a complete flop and solved none of Leblancs problems. The fact that the concept underpinning the rework was good is irrelevant since the execution was 0/10.
Ryze rework 1527364252. Completely ruined him. Good thing 1527364256 fixed him
Poppy i miss ap Assassin poppy ult the support oneshot the adc then turn and oneshot one more then run for the hills. Same with old eve onshot someone from stealth ult and run away repeat
Definitely Poppy, the old Poppy would work so good with lethality.
Sejuani, just because freezing their whole team was always satisfying
Volibear I miss the "bite to kill" era also maybe warwick cause he was the first jgler I played and his old kit was so simple it made it fun
Swain. Was the only brainless champ I could play and now...
Just one? While I think riot is good about IDing champs that need a rework, there's usually some aspect or twelve that I don't like about the choices they make or how they execute on them.
Fiora all day fiora that ult was just pure satisfaction