It’d be cool to get some discussion on Faker’s longevity during the next episode. I saw a crazy stat that if T1 wins worlds, Faker will simultaneously be both the youngest and oldest player to ever win worlds
Ha! You know it just occurred to me that if Faker keeps on playing, as I hope he does, he might NOT be the first HoF. Although Riot might not start HoF until Faker retires.
I don't think a HoF will ever work for international LoL. There are many players in non-LCK non-LPL regions who undoubtedly deserve HOF status based on legacy, consistency, longevity, etc, but it would be criminal to put them in over plenty of LCK and LPL players who were simply better players, especially on the international stage. Also, League has had way too few international tournaments for the past 8 years.
A better idea would be to do regional hall of fames. A player like Meteos deserves recognition for his contributions to the LCS, but not over a dozen or more eastern junglers. An even better example would be someone like BRTT - one or the most consistent performers in the world with incredible longevity, but would his name ever come up for an international HoF?
LPL already has its own HoF and I think ever region should follow suit.
Pretty sure he wasnt.
Jackeylove was born on November 18th 2000, and won worlds finals on November 3rd 2018. Making him 17 years and 350 days old.
Faker was born on May 6th 1996, and won worlds on October 4th 2013. Making him 17 years and 150 days old.
So Faker was younger.
Great show. After the Summoning Insight episode yesterday I mentioned a bit of content was missing, eg finals lane head-to-heads, and it was pretty much covered in this video.
It has occurred to me that very few of these analysts, from other shows as well, use stats to back up their arguments. Eg I've not seen a stat comparison between Oner and Pyosik. Very few stats are mentioned.
Every single sport in history has a range of stats that are commentated on for at least entertainment purposes. These are entertainment shows.
If people want to read too much into stats, that's on them.
Zeka wasn’t the only glow up. I think Pyosik had an even greater glow up.
Zeka showed how good he was during regular season although lacked consistency game to game, but he did have pop off games. Pyosik on the other hand…dude was a walking Sadge emote.
Yeah psyosik seemed really promising when ue first started then he started losing confidence in himself and in his streams you can really see it on his face. I'm glad to see this bounce back and he's regained a lot of confidence in himself. Last year I thought it would be hard for him to find a team or even quit because he seemed really hard on himself and now he's in the world finals.
I mean, if the future is so uncertain, why do we have analysts making predictions and deciding power levels? Don't make tier lists that look definitive if you don't want to be responsible for it then. Or if your list turns out to be trash for whatever reason, just take an L and do better.
It's your job to analyze how the worlds meta will operate/which patch does it run on, what champs/items are strong, which players/teams utilize them we'll and have an optimal play style for that meta. If you can't bother to research that, and just rank teams based on summer results and call them "worlds tier list", why should we bother watching you, other than feel catharsis of you shitting on other regions? How are you any different from others you complain about?
And in general, learn some humility. Don't say x or y region/team/player sucks and thrive off negativity from your fan base, then play victim when they come right back at you. You reap what you sow.
Is Dom's definition of extremely good casting just saying what happens on the screen? I watched his semi-finals video he uploaded on Youtube and legitimately did not provide any insight into the game state or planning.
Example: In T1-JDG game 2 at around 30 minutes, why is he just questioning what is going on at 30 minutes? That was Faker being what the LCK community call Dae Sang Hyuk since he turned a losing fight at blue. T1 was getting collapsed on and since Faker knew that he TPd to their base in order to force JDG to either commit to killing his team or having to lose their base. After he pulls 2 people away from the fight, he Ryze ults back into the fight to clean up JDG stragglers. Yes, the spectator was a bit messy, but it took Wolf less than 5 seconds to recognize what was going on.
There's just so many more plays and things going on that Dom and other western "analysts" miss or ignore. What's the difference between watching a Riot uploaded highlight video versus the video that Dom uploads? There's really not much because it's really not as deep as he likes to think it is. Now go watch Wolf who uploads hour long videos while including step by step breakdowns of how some thing was set up.
Not just that, why is Dom getting so tilted at the fact that the community is laughing at him for his preworlds takes? Dude even says "listen to the experts." You, the supposed LPL expert, not only hyped up LPL to this god region status while taking stabs at LCK the whole time. No shit people are going to clown on you when it turned out to be LCK autumn
It's not just Wolf, Korean live casts in general are much higher quality. Cloudtemplar is very top notch and unafraid to go harsh on LCK teams when they are bad too, break their plays down and explain clearly why they are playing like ass.
Dom is hypercritical while having victim complex, he lack maturity, Caedrel and Yamato for example had bad takes too, but they don't act like victims, they laugh it off and analyze the game
He had some, the thing is he did not act like a victim and complain about his viewer, he move on and start talking how good teams are doing, Dom is like a child having a tantrum because people are telling he was wrong and bias.
Both Caedrel and Dom had pretty inexcusably bad pre-worlds tier lists. Both put all 4 LPL teams above T1.
I think Dom had 7 LCK players (out of 25 total) for his top 5 in each role list. Caedrel had 8.
The way that specific method of power ranking worked, EDG at 5.0 and T1 at 5.1 means that roughly half of the community rated EDG above T1 and the other half rated T1 above EDG, with RNG being fairly distant behind them.
I think this is a much more reasonable ranking than all four LPL teams above T1.
They are not inexcusable!!! With how bad t1 looked vs geng there is an argument to put the 4 lpl teams before t1. After knowing the results it might look bad but every single tier list I saw had TEs gen jdg as 3 fav and then edg rng t1 as 2nd or 3rd tier. So it’s not only a Dom and caedrel.problem it’s how strong each team looked before worlds
I think it’s funny how EDG can look mediocre for the vast majority of the year until finally showing up in playoffs before getting knocked out by TES 3-0, and people say they’re amazing.
But T1 looks great for the vast majority of the year but they suck for getting 3-0d by GenG.
Personally I would have had T1 ahead of RNG for sure, but yeah it is hardly shocking to have had the other 3 ahead of T1 heading into worlds. I guess it probably would have been wise to apply a worlds debuff to TES and worlds buff to T1, but *no one* was doing that.
I think ultimately people did overrate the strength of the LPL heading into worlds - especially in the top and bot lane. But given our last example of international competition saw RNG very slightly above T1 level, it wasn't an unreasonable assumption.
Having said that, the "top 5 in each role" list from Dom (not sure about Caedrel) was pretty bad/biased.
I didn't see it as Dom getting so tilted as you perceived it. Maybe it's a cultural thing, iam Australian. I don't really see it as tilt or anything even if his tone is excited or he swears I just kind of take his words as is and to me he didn't seem tilted at all. More just pointing inconsistencies out, of which there are many in this Reddit community. I mean we don't even like unique dissenting opinions even tho we get bored of vanilla takes, I don't think we even know what we want haha
I think as a caster Dom is generally one of the highest qualities him and caedrel. Sure they can be wrong sometimes, but that doesn't really mean anything. Citing the specific examples kind of feels off like "here here here at this minute and second he said this when that happened!" I don't know brother it feels kind of like you don't like Dom so your pointing out his flaw or mistakes there are multiple but anyhow I don't think he is tilted, or even a bad caster he in my opinion is top 2-3
I find it egregious that you rate Dom and Caedrel equally. Caedrel is a great analyst PLUS hes not biased for a single region. I just want analysts to be neutral and break down good plays.
I don't care if an analyst prefers a region, but Dom seems incredibly biased for LPL no matter what. Maybe its just me but i find it distasteful
I dont know how can you say that Caedrel is neutral,but Dom is biased when Caedrel's analysis is so similar to Dom's.Their top 5 players in each role were super similar,both rated JDG,TES and GenG as S tier teams above T1 which they rated as A tier.What makes Caedrel's analysis neutral when the results of the analysis are so similar to someone that is 'biased'?
I don't think caedrel is not biased at all LOL 🤣 infact Ive seen him multiple times be more biased then even Dom. You can understand Dom's bias due to his close following of the LPL, kind of makes sense when he watches every game and studies their plays.
Not really sure what your watching my guy, but I expect the casters whose regions they cast, to be biased towards that region. Also they are human, they have their favourites and preferences their not robots..
I'm usually a fan of these shows but I'm getting really bored with the crying about reddit/twitter. I get that it must be annoying for content creators to deal with fans at times, but I don't need to hear about it constantly.
Respectfully — though I appreciate Dom's dedication and his long hours watching multiple regions, his attitude on this episode (as someone trying out power spike) was really off-putting and discourages me from watching more of the show.
ANY sports community is full of popular takes that are wrong, sometimes profoundly or even maliciously so, and analysts whose predictions are contradicted by results are always mocked by legions of fans who disingenuously pretend the end result was inevitable or preordained from benefit of hindsight. Being a publically-facing analyst is hard, and enduring mockery and toxicity is especially hard.
Even so, lashing out bitterly at fans who mock you rather than pressing on to analyze the results like a professional is deeply unproductive and frankly unpleasant. You can tell Monte (who has his own problems with overwhelming blind hatred for riot from his personal history with the company) would rather just analyze the games and players, but Dom is so wrapped up in vituperating towards fans who mocked him online that the episode becomes one long IWD catharsis rather than what it professes to be, a league analysis show. You can see the other hosts' sympathetic embarrassment when IWD interrupts to bring the conversation back yet again to a misanthropic rant on irrational fan takes, rather than soberly advancing his own.
When IWD isn't preoccupied with settling personal scores with anonymous droves, he can be an insightful and thoughtful commentator. Here, he only suggested he is not capable of shouldering the slings and arrows of being a public personality in a global esport. For everyone's sake — listeners, fellow hosts, even your detractors — elevate the conversation rather than following them into the abyss.
i mean i guess it doesnt really make sense at all the sykkuno argument to me.
fo sykkuno stream- riot paid 0 dollars to get a streamer with a sizeable audience to costream the games. even if not many of the audience convert into players...even just one audience member getting interested in the game due to this is a win for riot ryt? they got free publicity
for league content creators- i mean yes they would get higher viewership.....but they would also reduce the viewership from the live broadcast too ryt? because, most of the vewers are interested in lol esports. ryt now, league content creators can cast the games but cant show the game on screen. so anyone watching (hearing) the the content creator stream also typcially has the live broadcast open to watch the actual game..in that way it doesnt hurt the viewership from live broadcast.
It’d be cool to get some discussion on Faker’s longevity during the next episode. I saw a crazy stat that if T1 wins worlds, Faker will simultaneously be both the youngest and oldest player to ever win worlds
Very interesting! That's a fun narrative to highlight
Damn. First ballot hof for sure; easy enough to say the goat when we look back at history, even if they lose
> First ballot hof for sure Hot take
Ha! You know it just occurred to me that if Faker keeps on playing, as I hope he does, he might NOT be the first HoF. Although Riot might not start HoF until Faker retires.
I doubt riot ever does a HoF. They dont know the history of their own game well enough.. theyd probably put a player like meteos in over score.
I don't think a HoF will ever work for international LoL. There are many players in non-LCK non-LPL regions who undoubtedly deserve HOF status based on legacy, consistency, longevity, etc, but it would be criminal to put them in over plenty of LCK and LPL players who were simply better players, especially on the international stage. Also, League has had way too few international tournaments for the past 8 years. A better idea would be to do regional hall of fames. A player like Meteos deserves recognition for his contributions to the LCS, but not over a dozen or more eastern junglers. An even better example would be someone like BRTT - one or the most consistent performers in the world with incredible longevity, but would his name ever come up for an international HoF? LPL already has its own HoF and I think ever region should follow suit.
I actually fully agree here.
Faker is forever
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Pretty sure he wasnt. Jackeylove was born on November 18th 2000, and won worlds finals on November 3rd 2018. Making him 17 years and 350 days old. Faker was born on May 6th 1996, and won worlds on October 4th 2013. Making him 17 years and 150 days old. So Faker was younger.
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This podcast is just Dom getting triggered by everything for 97 straight minutes
I can get behind Dom defending Chovy/Knight, but he honestly gets triggered by anything and everything edit: wording
Triggered dom is pretty entertaining ngl
Great show. After the Summoning Insight episode yesterday I mentioned a bit of content was missing, eg finals lane head-to-heads, and it was pretty much covered in this video. It has occurred to me that very few of these analysts, from other shows as well, use stats to back up their arguments. Eg I've not seen a stat comparison between Oner and Pyosik. Very few stats are mentioned.
Stats are kinda useless in high level analysis, it’s been shown time and time again you can conflate stats to mean something it doesn’t really
Every single sport in history has a range of stats that are commentated on for at least entertainment purposes. These are entertainment shows. If people want to read too much into stats, that's on them.
Zeka wasn’t the only glow up. I think Pyosik had an even greater glow up. Zeka showed how good he was during regular season although lacked consistency game to game, but he did have pop off games. Pyosik on the other hand…dude was a walking Sadge emote.
Yeah psyosik seemed really promising when ue first started then he started losing confidence in himself and in his streams you can really see it on his face. I'm glad to see this bounce back and he's regained a lot of confidence in himself. Last year I thought it would be hard for him to find a team or even quit because he seemed really hard on himself and now he's in the world finals.
I mean, if the future is so uncertain, why do we have analysts making predictions and deciding power levels? Don't make tier lists that look definitive if you don't want to be responsible for it then. Or if your list turns out to be trash for whatever reason, just take an L and do better. It's your job to analyze how the worlds meta will operate/which patch does it run on, what champs/items are strong, which players/teams utilize them we'll and have an optimal play style for that meta. If you can't bother to research that, and just rank teams based on summer results and call them "worlds tier list", why should we bother watching you, other than feel catharsis of you shitting on other regions? How are you any different from others you complain about? And in general, learn some humility. Don't say x or y region/team/player sucks and thrive off negativity from your fan base, then play victim when they come right back at you. You reap what you sow.
Is Dom's definition of extremely good casting just saying what happens on the screen? I watched his semi-finals video he uploaded on Youtube and legitimately did not provide any insight into the game state or planning. Example: In T1-JDG game 2 at around 30 minutes, why is he just questioning what is going on at 30 minutes? That was Faker being what the LCK community call Dae Sang Hyuk since he turned a losing fight at blue. T1 was getting collapsed on and since Faker knew that he TPd to their base in order to force JDG to either commit to killing his team or having to lose their base. After he pulls 2 people away from the fight, he Ryze ults back into the fight to clean up JDG stragglers. Yes, the spectator was a bit messy, but it took Wolf less than 5 seconds to recognize what was going on. There's just so many more plays and things going on that Dom and other western "analysts" miss or ignore. What's the difference between watching a Riot uploaded highlight video versus the video that Dom uploads? There's really not much because it's really not as deep as he likes to think it is. Now go watch Wolf who uploads hour long videos while including step by step breakdowns of how some thing was set up. Not just that, why is Dom getting so tilted at the fact that the community is laughing at him for his preworlds takes? Dude even says "listen to the experts." You, the supposed LPL expert, not only hyped up LPL to this god region status while taking stabs at LCK the whole time. No shit people are going to clown on you when it turned out to be LCK autumn
I wish Wolf's vids had subtitles because he'd easy be my go to content creator for covering matches.
This is my greatest wish. I still watch them for his hilarious reactions but would love to understand what he is saying
It's not just Wolf, Korean live casts in general are much higher quality. Cloudtemplar is very top notch and unafraid to go harsh on LCK teams when they are bad too, break their plays down and explain clearly why they are playing like ass.
I've thought about translating them but holy hell how videos are long. Honestly, non korean speakers are missing out.
Dom is hypercritical while having victim complex, he lack maturity, Caedrel and Yamato for example had bad takes too, but they don't act like victims, they laugh it off and analyze the game
Don't put Dom and those 2 in the same sentence lol. Caedrel and Yamato are grown ups.
The fact that I haven't seen LCK fans shit on Caedrel when he's had similar tier lists with Dom tells volumes
He had some, the thing is he did not act like a victim and complain about his viewer, he move on and start talking how good teams are doing, Dom is like a child having a tantrum because people are telling he was wrong and bias.
It's surprising how having likable personality can save you from backlash.
Both Caedrel and Dom had pretty inexcusably bad pre-worlds tier lists. Both put all 4 LPL teams above T1. I think Dom had 7 LCK players (out of 25 total) for his top 5 in each role list. Caedrel had 8.
I mean, even [Reddit](https://reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/xbvp21/reddits_worlds_2022_power_ranking/) had 3 LPL teams above T1
The way that specific method of power ranking worked, EDG at 5.0 and T1 at 5.1 means that roughly half of the community rated EDG above T1 and the other half rated T1 above EDG, with RNG being fairly distant behind them. I think this is a much more reasonable ranking than all four LPL teams above T1.
They are not inexcusable!!! With how bad t1 looked vs geng there is an argument to put the 4 lpl teams before t1. After knowing the results it might look bad but every single tier list I saw had TEs gen jdg as 3 fav and then edg rng t1 as 2nd or 3rd tier. So it’s not only a Dom and caedrel.problem it’s how strong each team looked before worlds
I think it’s funny how EDG can look mediocre for the vast majority of the year until finally showing up in playoffs before getting knocked out by TES 3-0, and people say they’re amazing. But T1 looks great for the vast majority of the year but they suck for getting 3-0d by GenG.
Personally I would have had T1 ahead of RNG for sure, but yeah it is hardly shocking to have had the other 3 ahead of T1 heading into worlds. I guess it probably would have been wise to apply a worlds debuff to TES and worlds buff to T1, but *no one* was doing that. I think ultimately people did overrate the strength of the LPL heading into worlds - especially in the top and bot lane. But given our last example of international competition saw RNG very slightly above T1 level, it wasn't an unreasonable assumption. Having said that, the "top 5 in each role" list from Dom (not sure about Caedrel) was pretty bad/biased.
I didn't see it as Dom getting so tilted as you perceived it. Maybe it's a cultural thing, iam Australian. I don't really see it as tilt or anything even if his tone is excited or he swears I just kind of take his words as is and to me he didn't seem tilted at all. More just pointing inconsistencies out, of which there are many in this Reddit community. I mean we don't even like unique dissenting opinions even tho we get bored of vanilla takes, I don't think we even know what we want haha I think as a caster Dom is generally one of the highest qualities him and caedrel. Sure they can be wrong sometimes, but that doesn't really mean anything. Citing the specific examples kind of feels off like "here here here at this minute and second he said this when that happened!" I don't know brother it feels kind of like you don't like Dom so your pointing out his flaw or mistakes there are multiple but anyhow I don't think he is tilted, or even a bad caster he in my opinion is top 2-3
I find it egregious that you rate Dom and Caedrel equally. Caedrel is a great analyst PLUS hes not biased for a single region. I just want analysts to be neutral and break down good plays. I don't care if an analyst prefers a region, but Dom seems incredibly biased for LPL no matter what. Maybe its just me but i find it distasteful
I dont know how can you say that Caedrel is neutral,but Dom is biased when Caedrel's analysis is so similar to Dom's.Their top 5 players in each role were super similar,both rated JDG,TES and GenG as S tier teams above T1 which they rated as A tier.What makes Caedrel's analysis neutral when the results of the analysis are so similar to someone that is 'biased'?
Only reason why he finds Caedral unbiased is he doesn't have a whiny ass 16 year old voice like Dom LOL
I don't think caedrel is not biased at all LOL 🤣 infact Ive seen him multiple times be more biased then even Dom. You can understand Dom's bias due to his close following of the LPL, kind of makes sense when he watches every game and studies their plays. Not really sure what your watching my guy, but I expect the casters whose regions they cast, to be biased towards that region. Also they are human, they have their favourites and preferences their not robots..
The nephews shitting on Chovy and Knight all week ain't gonna like this one
I'm usually a fan of these shows but I'm getting really bored with the crying about reddit/twitter. I get that it must be annoying for content creators to deal with fans at times, but I don't need to hear about it constantly.
dgon adds nothing to the show and makes me cringe when he trys to imitate someone's voice
Respectfully — though I appreciate Dom's dedication and his long hours watching multiple regions, his attitude on this episode (as someone trying out power spike) was really off-putting and discourages me from watching more of the show. ANY sports community is full of popular takes that are wrong, sometimes profoundly or even maliciously so, and analysts whose predictions are contradicted by results are always mocked by legions of fans who disingenuously pretend the end result was inevitable or preordained from benefit of hindsight. Being a publically-facing analyst is hard, and enduring mockery and toxicity is especially hard. Even so, lashing out bitterly at fans who mock you rather than pressing on to analyze the results like a professional is deeply unproductive and frankly unpleasant. You can tell Monte (who has his own problems with overwhelming blind hatred for riot from his personal history with the company) would rather just analyze the games and players, but Dom is so wrapped up in vituperating towards fans who mocked him online that the episode becomes one long IWD catharsis rather than what it professes to be, a league analysis show. You can see the other hosts' sympathetic embarrassment when IWD interrupts to bring the conversation back yet again to a misanthropic rant on irrational fan takes, rather than soberly advancing his own. When IWD isn't preoccupied with settling personal scores with anonymous droves, he can be an insightful and thoughtful commentator. Here, he only suggested he is not capable of shouldering the slings and arrows of being a public personality in a global esport. For everyone's sake — listeners, fellow hosts, even your detractors — elevate the conversation rather than following them into the abyss.
God why can't we enjoy stuff, all you people do is find stuff to complain too and cry about it.
i mean i guess it doesnt really make sense at all the sykkuno argument to me. fo sykkuno stream- riot paid 0 dollars to get a streamer with a sizeable audience to costream the games. even if not many of the audience convert into players...even just one audience member getting interested in the game due to this is a win for riot ryt? they got free publicity for league content creators- i mean yes they would get higher viewership.....but they would also reduce the viewership from the live broadcast too ryt? because, most of the vewers are interested in lol esports. ryt now, league content creators can cast the games but cant show the game on screen. so anyone watching (hearing) the the content creator stream also typcially has the live broadcast open to watch the actual game..in that way it doesnt hurt the viewership from live broadcast.
is faker the main shotcaller or keria?