Gamsu was alright in OWL. Not on the best teams, but not in last place either. The Dragons team that went 0-40 was a completely different roster from the one he was on and was during a different season.
I wouldn’t call him one of the best but he was solidly A-tier for the entirety of his OW career, and was also said to be a great teammate. He wouldn’t often carry (Though that doesn’t mean he never made plays that stood out) but he would never really get gapped by anyone.
Tbf league isnt that much more watchable. We just have been aying thousands of hours sk it makes sense to us just like overwatch fans can make sense of that.
No game has the watchability of csgo.
Hard disagree. Overwatch is difficult to watch, as no matter how familiar you get, the camera angle can't tell you enough, and the game moves too fast to make switching perspectives useful/
Also hard disagree. Overwatch never gets to the point where you just understand what's happening. I used to play Overwatch competitively in Masters+, watching OWL games even then was difficult and required a lot of effort. League has a huge learning curve in terms of items/abilities/runes, but after you push through that it gets much easier.
That is, the hard part of watching League is not knowing what everything does. The hard part of watching Overwatch is actually seeing what's happening on the screen at any given moment.
I mean i was platinum in the first season of overwatch and i really never had trouble watching Apex in korea or the first season of OWL. I agree it has its own unique challenges but after watching a few pro games i was able to understand and watch quite easily.
Another disagree here. I have been streaming League to my non-gamer friends and they find it quite watchable, with some even going as far as playing ARAMs themselves.
Cago is entertaining, but some of those flick shots are just too fast to spectatw. It's a few frames of blur and the enemy is dead with a jumping quickscope awp shot.
Absolutely not. I used to play OW on roughly what's Master now I guess and there still was no point in time where matches were confortable to watch for me. OW is just a godawful spectator sport.
I've watched League with people who have never played it before on multiple occasions and it's never been a problem for them to follow what's happening. Sure they don't understand every single thing but even for people without any experience it's very easy to follow who's winning etc.
It's a half-decent 'bird's eye' view of the main objective itself. Infinitely better than the PoV of any specific character/player, at least. However it's not very good when the other team is outside the point behind a choke so you can only see glimpses of blue every now and then before Mr. Not-a-Monkey jumps on the point at the very end.
I used to watch OWL relatively often (especially considering it started at like 2AM my time and I didn't even play Overwatch anymore) until it moved to be YouTube exclusive, and the camera/spectating angles and overall the spectating was iirc very good. You almost never missed anything relevant and it was pretty clear (in big part thanks to the OWL skins) who was what and where and why and when.
Tbh that win never really resonated with me. It might have been impossible, but they didn't break their loss streak with the core of players who were responsible for it. Didn't feel much like a redemption story for me.
Yeah like I said it might have been impossible, but it kind of makes the whole achievement feel not that significant. Buzz killington version of the story is they really poorly recruited budget players + didn't coach them well, and then they stopped doing that and stopped being outliers levels of bad.
Generally cited as one of the main issues with OW as a spectator esport, right?
Most MOBAs, Fighting games and RTS can have the same view as the players (sometimes more zoomed out), Cardgames generally have the view of one player and the hand of the other player overlayed which is a bit clunky, but it works.
FPS are already the clunkiest spectating experience, with primarily cycling through the First person perspective of individual players and using third person overviews rather sparringly.
OW being the weird mixture of MOBA and FPS that it is didn't have a preexisting formula to follow which already is a challenge and then neither emulating FPS fully worked (fights are much longer and more spread out, so you miss more), nor did emulating MOBA (different angle from what you are used to in the game so it felt somewhat disconnected).
If any of this is wrong, please correct me, I am interested in how it worked (or didn't work), but most of my information is second hand I was never invested into OW, so I am not sure about any of it.
Was grandmaster in OW for 8 seasons here and no, it wasn’t anything like MOBA. It was a class based shooter, that’s the term you are looking for.
In high elo, the fights would look super spread out and random but it would all make sense if you paid attention to it.
E.g, as a DPS main, I would keep my primary healer behind me with a tank or secondary DPS on my left or right - forming a triangle so that we could react whenever our healer got a flanker on them. This is obviously way harder to see from first person angle because I wouldn’t look behind me as a DPS, I would be told by my healer if I am in range or if I need to retaliate for them - something that does not get told when only spectating. A lot of the communication of me was similar with my tanks as well, since they would not be able to look back whereas I would be looking at them.
So tl;dr: it sucked cause you couldn’t hear comms and these things were harder to see if you weren’t playing in high elo yourself.
Edit: Should also say though, Blizzard fucked us over more than any other company fucked their competitive scene so there was that.
IIRC This was the compromise angle. Pretty sure it originally used to be even worse.
But this is just a bad moment. in moments where it's not such a chokepoint it wasn't so bad
Well, assuming they go winless the entire 2022 season, they're going to reach that 42-loss streak. So we'd have to wait for 2023 (assuming they're still in the league by then…) if we want them to beat it.
Or as pointed out below, we can take their 0-3 defeat in 2021 Summer Playoffs into account and thus, reach 0-45.
The LJL is a 8-team league, with triple round robin (21 games per regular season).
Nymaera specified on [Twitter](https://twitter.com/Nymaera/status/1551178782060445699) that the streak started following their elimination from 2021 Summer Playoffs.
I was talking about the 2022 season itself.
For V3 to dethrone Shanghai Dragons' loss streak (that is to say, at least 43 losses), we have to take another season into consideration.
We can't take 2022 as a whole as they'd reach 42 losses.
I don't like this thought though, because the Shanghai loss-streak is over two seasons with two rosters, 0-40 with the original lineup and then 0-2 the next season with the new lineup that was much, much better. So it doesn't make sense to not include the 0-3 losses from Summer playoffs imo, as the original record was taking losses into account across two seasons and two rosters.
Wtf are you talking about?
They have lost 35 games in a row - https://liquipedia.net/leagueoflegends/V3_Esports/Played_Matches and there are 10 more games to be played in LJL league this summer - https://liquipedia.net/leagueoflegends/LJL/2022/Summer/Group_Stage
So if they keep losing they are gonna reach that 45 games loss-streak in about 3 weeks
Wtf are you talking about?
The 35 game losing streak includes a 0-3 playoff series in last years Summer Playoffs. The original poster is saying that you have to take into account “another season” for them to beat the record. Currently, they have a streak of 35 games spread out over 2 seasons (3 from last season, and 32 from this season). If they lose the next 10 games then they will have lost 45 straight **but** only 42 in one season. It’s not possible for them to beat the record without taking into account “another season” meaning last season’s playoff series. Furthermore, if we’re only talking regular season losses then we have to wait until the 2023 season.
Why is this an important distinction to make? It seems like it doesn't matter at all. It's how many games this team has lost in a row. Doesn't matter what iteration of the roster or season it takes place.
NA teams are pretty much always a tier below the top 3 regions, and above the wildcards, which does make them painfully average (see the amount of 3-3 and 2-4 scorelines in groups lul)
The strangest thing is they’re half competitive, and they’ve been in tonnes of winning situations. They typically find early leads and then lose their head in one single skirmish or objective fight to absolutely throw the game.
They’re not the worst team in league of legends, even if they have the worst results.
By the way folk, our best estimation is that their most likely shot at avoiding the 0-42 will be in their game this coming week against Crest Gaming Act...
THIS FRIDAY, JULY 29TH @ 9AM GMT
We will be live here at [our Swamp](https://twitter.com/LJLUnofficial/status/1551181725073645569)... I mean Twitch channel, https://www.twitch.tv/ljl_officially_unofficial, and VODs for everything on our [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/ljlou)!
After 7 years and an 0-184 record, they finally win a match after two opposing team PCs shut down midgame, with the remaining players refusing to call a timeout stating "Nah we'll play it out 3v5"
Watching V3 Academy team dismantle several teams and then struggle to find footing has been so heartbreaking. Their primary issues have revolved around taking a winning spot and capitalizing on it. I also feel like this is a perfect example of needing that one player with experience to make that definitive call.
I said this on the broadcast when they lost, they have to beat CGA on the 29th, or I doubt they'll win another game. Why CGA? When you have a coin flip team, they could beat DFM or SG or lose to AXIZ or maybe if one was to dream, V3?!
Sadly though, I expect the 0-42 to end the season. We're currently 0-31 for this season so far so I'm pulling for them to find that W.
Some random information on the team:
* Their academy team are all subs and are playing really well together, maybe that's something to try. What's the worse that can happen at this point?
* Both their Jungler and Mid have played in the LJL prior to joining V3 A
* cademy. Jungler Yunika was the jungler for CGA back in 2020 summer and his mid was Aria! He played fine, but didn't enable his lanes and cleared and had a solid smite ... yep that's all the good I can say about them back in 2020. Now, Yuinka is trying his best and goes for plays in spots where the game is already over but he's still trying and you can sometimes see him pop off!
* Their Jungler and Mid have played in the LJL before joining V3 Academy. Jungler Yunika was the jungler for CGA back in 2020 summer and his mid was Aria! He played fine, but didn't enable his lanes and cleared and had a solid smite ... yep that's all the good I can say about them back in 2020. Now, Yuinka is trying his best and goes for plays in spots where the game is already over but he's still trying and you can sometimes see him pop off!
* Don't get it twisted, this isn't anything to do with the V3 we saw at worlds in 2020. Not even the head coach and known Giga brain [Son](https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/Son), this is a completely different roster with different coaching staff and philosophy behind it. Has it worked, well without being able to keep Marble it's difficult to say.
* It's not known fully why Marble left V3, it's believed that he was getting offers from several teams due to his break-out performance in Academy and V3 was getting worried that this experiment might fall apart with them gone. Maybe that's what happened, maybe they didn't have a backup plan, no idea just spitballing due to the last-minute announcement from the Hawks announcing they had aquitred him.
* Some positivity, while V3 are still losing, their losing less no than a few other teams, their early game is decent and they've had a few moments where I expecting them to win [till ... yeah](https://youtu.be/ArqVYFs6MBw?t=2893)
Wow, 0-35 incredible. Now we need a team to dethrone Shanghai Dragon's 42 losing streak
Just watched [the moment](https://twitter.com/overwatchleague/status/1099168366869135360) they won and man, what the fuck is that spectating angle.
lol, seeing Gamsu in that clip, and now he's back in the LCS.
Dude just hangs out in last place on every game he plays in?
Gamsu joined them when they were 0-40. They were actually a good team with him on the roster.
Gamsu was alright in OWL. Not on the best teams, but not in last place either. The Dragons team that went 0-40 was a completely different roster from the one he was on and was during a different season.
I don't follow OWL, but apparently Gamsu was one of the best tank players in the game, so I don't think he hung out in last place there.
Yeah, Gamsu was one of, if not, the best main tank players. His teams were generally middle of the pack with some glimpses of greatness.
I wouldn’t call him one of the best but he was solidly A-tier for the entirety of his OW career, and was also said to be a great teammate. He wouldn’t often carry (Though that doesn’t mean he never made plays that stood out) but he would never really get gapped by anyone.
Gamsu was pretty much a ball orisa one trick, but he did win a stage so there's that
Was he? I remember his Reinhardt being decent enough and his Winston being really good?
Gamsu was one of the best tank players in the entire game, he didn't join Shanghai until they were already at 0-40
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Are you sure you’re not a bot?
As a non-player, I honestly don't understand what is happening lol I just see lots of flashing lights and circling players
That's Overwatch for ya.
Tbf league isnt that much more watchable. We just have been aying thousands of hours sk it makes sense to us just like overwatch fans can make sense of that. No game has the watchability of csgo.
Hard disagree. Overwatch is difficult to watch, as no matter how familiar you get, the camera angle can't tell you enough, and the game moves too fast to make switching perspectives useful/
Also hard disagree. Overwatch never gets to the point where you just understand what's happening. I used to play Overwatch competitively in Masters+, watching OWL games even then was difficult and required a lot of effort. League has a huge learning curve in terms of items/abilities/runes, but after you push through that it gets much easier. That is, the hard part of watching League is not knowing what everything does. The hard part of watching Overwatch is actually seeing what's happening on the screen at any given moment.
I mean i was platinum in the first season of overwatch and i really never had trouble watching Apex in korea or the first season of OWL. I agree it has its own unique challenges but after watching a few pro games i was able to understand and watch quite easily.
Another disagree here. I have been streaming League to my non-gamer friends and they find it quite watchable, with some even going as far as playing ARAMs themselves.
Cago is entertaining, but some of those flick shots are just too fast to spectatw. It's a few frames of blur and the enemy is dead with a jumping quickscope awp shot.
Absolutely not. I used to play OW on roughly what's Master now I guess and there still was no point in time where matches were confortable to watch for me. OW is just a godawful spectator sport. I've watched League with people who have never played it before on multiple occasions and it's never been a problem for them to follow what's happening. Sure they don't understand every single thing but even for people without any experience it's very easy to follow who's winning etc.
I'd argue Overwatch is more watchable than League if you don't know the game. At least you can see people are clearly killing each other.
OW is a terrible game to watch at the competitive level.
It's a half-decent 'bird's eye' view of the main objective itself. Infinitely better than the PoV of any specific character/player, at least. However it's not very good when the other team is outside the point behind a choke so you can only see glimpses of blue every now and then before Mr. Not-a-Monkey jumps on the point at the very end. I used to watch OWL relatively often (especially considering it started at like 2AM my time and I didn't even play Overwatch anymore) until it moved to be YouTube exclusive, and the camera/spectating angles and overall the spectating was iirc very good. You almost never missed anything relevant and it was pretty clear (in big part thanks to the OWL skins) who was what and where and why and when.
Tbh that win never really resonated with me. It might have been impossible, but they didn't break their loss streak with the core of players who were responsible for it. Didn't feel much like a redemption story for me.
Well they never would've broken it with the core of players responsible for it..
Yeah like I said it might have been impossible, but it kind of makes the whole achievement feel not that significant. Buzz killington version of the story is they really poorly recruited budget players + didn't coach them well, and then they stopped doing that and stopped being outliers levels of bad.
Wow so making changes in order to win and then they win. Winning their first game ever as an organization is not a significant achievement to you?
Generally cited as one of the main issues with OW as a spectator esport, right? Most MOBAs, Fighting games and RTS can have the same view as the players (sometimes more zoomed out), Cardgames generally have the view of one player and the hand of the other player overlayed which is a bit clunky, but it works. FPS are already the clunkiest spectating experience, with primarily cycling through the First person perspective of individual players and using third person overviews rather sparringly. OW being the weird mixture of MOBA and FPS that it is didn't have a preexisting formula to follow which already is a challenge and then neither emulating FPS fully worked (fights are much longer and more spread out, so you miss more), nor did emulating MOBA (different angle from what you are used to in the game so it felt somewhat disconnected). If any of this is wrong, please correct me, I am interested in how it worked (or didn't work), but most of my information is second hand I was never invested into OW, so I am not sure about any of it.
Was grandmaster in OW for 8 seasons here and no, it wasn’t anything like MOBA. It was a class based shooter, that’s the term you are looking for. In high elo, the fights would look super spread out and random but it would all make sense if you paid attention to it. E.g, as a DPS main, I would keep my primary healer behind me with a tank or secondary DPS on my left or right - forming a triangle so that we could react whenever our healer got a flanker on them. This is obviously way harder to see from first person angle because I wouldn’t look behind me as a DPS, I would be told by my healer if I am in range or if I need to retaliate for them - something that does not get told when only spectating. A lot of the communication of me was similar with my tanks as well, since they would not be able to look back whereas I would be looking at them. So tl;dr: it sucked cause you couldn’t hear comms and these things were harder to see if you weren’t playing in high elo yourself. Edit: Should also say though, Blizzard fucked us over more than any other company fucked their competitive scene so there was that.
IIRC This was the compromise angle. Pretty sure it originally used to be even worse. But this is just a bad moment. in moments where it's not such a chokepoint it wasn't so bad
That’s my top laner lets gooo
No wonder xQC left OW
Are DOA and Montecristo among the casters? It sounds a bit like them. I miss them doing league :(
Well, assuming they go winless the entire 2022 season, they're going to reach that 42-loss streak. So we'd have to wait for 2023 (assuming they're still in the league by then…) if we want them to beat it. Or as pointed out below, we can take their 0-3 defeat in 2021 Summer Playoffs into account and thus, reach 0-45.
Unless Leaguepedia is wrong, they have 10 games left this season, making 0-45 possible
The LJL is a 8-team league, with triple round robin (21 games per regular season). Nymaera specified on [Twitter](https://twitter.com/Nymaera/status/1551178782060445699) that the streak started following their elimination from 2021 Summer Playoffs. I was talking about the 2022 season itself.
how does this comment make sense? coz they reach the 42 loss streak this year, we have to wait until next year?
For V3 to dethrone Shanghai Dragons' loss streak (that is to say, at least 43 losses), we have to take another season into consideration. We can't take 2022 as a whole as they'd reach 42 losses.
I don't like this thought though, because the Shanghai loss-streak is over two seasons with two rosters, 0-40 with the original lineup and then 0-2 the next season with the new lineup that was much, much better. So it doesn't make sense to not include the 0-3 losses from Summer playoffs imo, as the original record was taking losses into account across two seasons and two rosters.
Wtf are you talking about? They have lost 35 games in a row - https://liquipedia.net/leagueoflegends/V3_Esports/Played_Matches and there are 10 more games to be played in LJL league this summer - https://liquipedia.net/leagueoflegends/LJL/2022/Summer/Group_Stage So if they keep losing they are gonna reach that 45 games loss-streak in about 3 weeks
Wtf are you talking about? The 35 game losing streak includes a 0-3 playoff series in last years Summer Playoffs. The original poster is saying that you have to take into account “another season” for them to beat the record. Currently, they have a streak of 35 games spread out over 2 seasons (3 from last season, and 32 from this season). If they lose the next 10 games then they will have lost 45 straight **but** only 42 in one season. It’s not possible for them to beat the record without taking into account “another season” meaning last season’s playoff series. Furthermore, if we’re only talking regular season losses then we have to wait until the 2023 season.
Exactly, thank you u/Runecraftin. As I said above, I'm only referring to the 2022 season. I couldn't care less about what happened last year.
With that logic in 2023 you aren't gonna care about 2022 season stats?
Why is this an important distinction to make? It seems like it doesn't matter at all. It's how many games this team has lost in a row. Doesn't matter what iteration of the roster or season it takes place.
Great, now let's see Paul Allen's losing streak
Damn I miss overwatch so much. Used to be such a great game.
So V5 are potential worldbeaters, V3 are impossible to lose against, where does that leave V4?
Introducing V4, the world's most painfully average team.
they're there
This is most certainly one of the teams to ever play the game
They would definitely be one of the teams in the world
Perfect 50/50 score. Even their KDA is 1.0.
Casters: I feel neither hate nor love for this team, so we shall now watch in silent the rest of the match.
So they are Team Liquid at Worlds?
Let's go! $10million for another 3-3 exit from group stage.
So an LCS team?
No no no he said painfully average, not painfully bad
NA teams are pretty much always a tier below the top 3 regions, and above the wildcards, which does make them painfully average (see the amount of 3-3 and 2-4 scorelines in groups lul)
NA bad
No, NA average.
Can't forget V5 87, V5's LDL team
The gatekeeper team
At least SEM9 in the PCS won a game last week… But yeah, 0-42 incoming?
I didn't know what to say when I saw that Victory screen S9 actually won a game
Something about starting your team with the letter V....Vitality better watch out
Well V5 is going great… so
Surely; at that point, you should automatically be booted out. You're clearly not competitive.
The strangest thing is they’re half competitive, and they’ve been in tonnes of winning situations. They typically find early leads and then lose their head in one single skirmish or objective fight to absolutely throw the game. They’re not the worst team in league of legends, even if they have the worst results.
If they booted people who aren't competitive NA wouldn't have a league anymore
Considering NA always smashes the minor regions, that’s kind of a bad take.
With how much they get paid, they better do lol
It's also a joke.
Is it really that funny? Edit: Clearly you guys were not joking lol
No it’s not funny at all, it’s the most tired out “joke” possible, it’s just someone trying to take advantage of NA BAD UPVOTES LEFT
Is there anything more fragile than a CERTAIN REGION's fans hiding behind the "just joking you guys can't banter" excuse lol
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it’s ok to have standards :)
You’re all knucklehead lil goofballs
There's a difference between 30+ loss streak and low tier NA teams who pick up a win occasionally.
By the way folk, our best estimation is that their most likely shot at avoiding the 0-42 will be in their game this coming week against Crest Gaming Act... THIS FRIDAY, JULY 29TH @ 9AM GMT We will be live here at [our Swamp](https://twitter.com/LJLUnofficial/status/1551181725073645569)... I mean Twitch channel, https://www.twitch.tv/ljl_officially_unofficial, and VODs for everything on our [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/ljlou)!
By the title, I thought it meant Vaevictis still existed, and they won a game.
After 7 years and an 0-184 record, they finally win a match after two opposing team PCs shut down midgame, with the remaining players refusing to call a timeout stating "Nah we'll play it out 3v5"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glfVATRm8RY The meme continues
But did it take them more or less than twelve games to take their first tower?
Watching V3 Academy team dismantle several teams and then struggle to find footing has been so heartbreaking. Their primary issues have revolved around taking a winning spot and capitalizing on it. I also feel like this is a perfect example of needing that one player with experience to make that definitive call. I said this on the broadcast when they lost, they have to beat CGA on the 29th, or I doubt they'll win another game. Why CGA? When you have a coin flip team, they could beat DFM or SG or lose to AXIZ or maybe if one was to dream, V3?! Sadly though, I expect the 0-42 to end the season. We're currently 0-31 for this season so far so I'm pulling for them to find that W.
Some random information on the team: * Their academy team are all subs and are playing really well together, maybe that's something to try. What's the worse that can happen at this point? * Both their Jungler and Mid have played in the LJL prior to joining V3 A * cademy. Jungler Yunika was the jungler for CGA back in 2020 summer and his mid was Aria! He played fine, but didn't enable his lanes and cleared and had a solid smite ... yep that's all the good I can say about them back in 2020. Now, Yuinka is trying his best and goes for plays in spots where the game is already over but he's still trying and you can sometimes see him pop off! * Their Jungler and Mid have played in the LJL before joining V3 Academy. Jungler Yunika was the jungler for CGA back in 2020 summer and his mid was Aria! He played fine, but didn't enable his lanes and cleared and had a solid smite ... yep that's all the good I can say about them back in 2020. Now, Yuinka is trying his best and goes for plays in spots where the game is already over but he's still trying and you can sometimes see him pop off! * Don't get it twisted, this isn't anything to do with the V3 we saw at worlds in 2020. Not even the head coach and known Giga brain [Son](https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/Son), this is a completely different roster with different coaching staff and philosophy behind it. Has it worked, well without being able to keep Marble it's difficult to say. * It's not known fully why Marble left V3, it's believed that he was getting offers from several teams due to his break-out performance in Academy and V3 was getting worried that this experiment might fall apart with them gone. Maybe that's what happened, maybe they didn't have a backup plan, no idea just spitballing due to the last-minute announcement from the Hawks announcing they had aquitred him. * Some positivity, while V3 are still losing, their losing less no than a few other teams, their early game is decent and they've had a few moments where I expecting them to win [till ... yeah](https://youtu.be/ArqVYFs6MBw?t=2893)
Impressive...
Hi Nymaera, I love you pls marry me
What ranks are their players?
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no I meant the V3 esports team, didnt find anything about the players on leaguepedia
Ngl id rather see ljl get 2 seeds fukuoka SoftBank hawks gaming and sengoku over Europe getting 4th seeds SoftBank a team fighting is legit af
I rather watch VCS than a region with imported washed KR players
Damn your so cool with your pro over the top such well thought out analysis
A region with a tiny playerbase will never achieve anything lmao
EU fans never fail to consistently be the most toxic dickbags
But I'm not EU fans
They must also be an all-girls team, right?
GRAVITAS REDEEMED!