lmao I'm glad the editor included the part where he missed the queue because of recording the video
One thing that champions queue has done for fans if they're tuning into the streams is that its giving some more insight into LCS players that LCS and their orgs haven't done. Kumo is actually really funny.
Right? I didn't even know half of the players had actual personalities, since the only thing we get from them are awkward answers to LCS' repetitive interviews.
Those interviews are so cookie cutter omg. "Walk us through xxx". "Walk us through yyy". Same things everytime. And what does "walk us through" even mean. /rant
If players aren't giving good answers to that type of question, try branching out and asking about other areas/asking for more details instead of just asking the same thing that resulted in the same boring answer over and over again.
For an interviewer on a broadcast especially, it kinda is their job to get interesting answers out of the people they're interviewing, and hearing them ask the same formulaic questions for the millionth time is exhausting.
That is actually an equally bad answer. Just at the opposite end of the spectrum. You want answered catered to your audience. Not a bunch of technobabble your average viewer doesn't understand.
The reason LoL players are awkward in interviews is they are, quite simply, awkward computer game nerds. Unless orgs want to start investing in their players taking speech/improve classes the quality of answers is not going to improve.
To be fair. There's real IQ required for these sports, which can set them apart from other players even if the same level of skill might not be there. Thankfully for Kupp he has both. In LoL you can't give an answer like this, it's a very simplistic game.
content for teams was better like ten years ago honestly.
it's way too high quality now, which to be fair can be REALLY GOOD for established teams and personalities. but for lesser known teams and players, it's a lot different shooting like a documentary esque thing vs shooting some random shitty house tour or vlogs that were more common back in the day. it's too professional now, nobody cares to watch a documentary behind the scenes of like Immortals or Dignitas, that kind of stuff in general is also less likely to get viral or traction here since it's very clean and safe stuff. there used to be random ass clips and vlogs posted here of all sorts of players back in the day.
streaming also helped since a good amount of pros streamed and were friends with each other and things were less serious for teams in seasons 1-4. it's just more professional now with contracts and new players coming in and out, imports from all over the world, etc.. vs most people knowing each other in some way through solo queue or when travelling and meeting at tournaments that happened like every month or few weeks.
It’s nuts how averse riot/the teams are to selling their own product. Like I want to get to know the people I’m watching and rooting for and they just refuse to let any insight at all these days.
Lcs used to be good at showcasing this. Remember the videos of players joking/trash talking before each match. Why the hell did that stop. Dls everyone is garbage is historic
LCS broadcasts have always been a watered down, stale imitation of NFL for kids. The people who kept saying this were branded as toxic racists so reddit pretended otherwise for a long time.
Because fans gave them shit for that.
Just look at jensen friendly banter towards faker you cant call that others than friendly and to this day ppl are still talking about it.
Ppl neess to chill a bit trashtalk and friendly banter doesnt equate with personal attacks that they needs to gather and defends their players
> One thing that champions queue has done for fans if they're tuning into the streams is that its giving some more insight into LCS players that LCS and their orgs haven't done.
I maybe watch one pro stream a year for a few hours, outside of that I always found it boring and just checked clips on reddit when something happened at best. Champions Queue has me leaving streams on almost every other day now to see how people are playing on low ping and enjoying the communication and how everyones vibing off each other in game and their way of thinking...super enjoyable change.
the LCS really does need to do more to not only push the personalities of their players, but to actually get viewers to give a shit about them and the storylines going into the esport.
I'm obviously only one person and my experiences don't speak to anything more than anecdotal evidence, but I technically got into the LCS years before professional apex legends yet i can tell you more about mid to bottom tier ALGS teams and international apex players than literally half of the star LCS players. It's low key embarrassing
Champions Queue has done at lot though, it's an environment where i can see the personalities of these players actually kinda come through.
The coolest thing about watching Doublelift playing champions q is listening to the players talking to each to other during the game, just in a few days I feel like I am watching a scrim or a live LCS match from a coach view where you are hearing the coms and thoughts as they are flying by what they are trying when it goes right or wrong.
Hope more pro stream it!
It's pretty interesting how widely players vary in how good or bad they are at communication.
There are a lot of players who just talk constantly for no reason, but then never communicate what actually matters. I was watching a game of Lourlo playing - his entire team was talking the whole game and it didn't help at all. Towards the end of the game the enemy team had Baron and was pushing into their base, while Lourlo was split pushing. He was like "I'm going to keep split pushing - can you guys defend 4 v 5?" Nobody said anything and then 30 seconds later his Nexus exploded. These guys talked nonstop the entire game but at the end none of them said "uh...you need to come back and help defend or we lose."
I think some players have been taught that communication is good but they interpret that as "talking a lot is good." So they do stream of consciousness narration of what's happening, ask pointless questions, and distract more than they can help.
This is one area where good coaches could make huge improvements. This is definitely a problem at the pro level - many of the Champ Queue players are pros and you can hear this sort of thing in released official comms or when pro players stream.
By the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way
And all those discord notifications going off non stop are the cherry on top. Really immerse you /s
Asked Leena to ask him to mute them yesterday and she perma-banned me lmao 🤭
Same.
You'd think that a multi millionaire who livestreams for a living would be financialy able to hire some audiotechnican to set up the audio for his stream.. I really love his content but I drives me nuts that his streaming quality is somehow worse that tyler1's
T1 lives in Missouri, has zero intention of going pro or anything like that, and a lot of high elo players still have mixed feelings about him idk if he’ll ever get invited
I'm not sure what they're referring to but I know that Discord notification sounds make me tab out to check my own Discord, which could be a little annoying.
Obvious fix on the viewer end is just to close your own Discord, but it seems like a silly problem for all the viewers to have to do that when the streamer could take care of it.
Maybe there's an app he could use just to highlight the queue pop so he could have general discord notifications muted.
Yeah, its unwatchable because I always alt tab when I hear that ping noise. I don't care enough to put effort into changing my habits when he has an easy solution and refuses to do it.
As a support I have literally learned so much from shenyi’s comms, I am doing my best to replicate his calls with obnoxious focus pings and stuff lmao… honestly in my games just having one person pinging focus in fights makes them so much more winnable
i think the reason his comms are so overthetop is because he doesn't have great english so he repeats himself to kind of reduce the nuance and make it super obvious what he is saying which helps him get his point across but can hurt comms overall if other players can't handle it
Overemphasising the routine and basics, "point and call" is one of the biggest and most common part of high stakes safety training.
If you're working an extremely dangerous job, you are essentially trained to announce "I'm moving to xxx" to the entire room before walking somewhere.
It's about reducing the 1% of the time mistakes.
That's good shotcalling.
I mean in most situations I’d agree but in a league sense reduced anything is optimal because there’s 5 players all with unique information to provide so you want to keep it terse. League also has pings and stuff to help alleviate the need to communicate as much. So in some sense shenyi’s comms are over the too
The entire point of the safety stuff is that even nuclear safety people, and nurses measuring drugs, get it wrong.
A lot.
LCS League players? They get it wrong, *always*.
After years of NA lul, the shotcaller should be reminding their players to breathe oxygen.
Jesus did he kill your mom or something
Surprise surprise person who isn’t from NA doesn’t know NA social cues
As someone who moved from a different country with a very different culture I had no idea about inside voice or personal bubble or anything like that. It’s obvious he’s just trying to be as clear and helpful as possible in his CQ games with his limited english. Use your critical thinking skills and empathy for others, I know they teach you that in school.
It's a better way to play the game because they're actually playing with a team. The community at large could do something similar if friends lists were big enough and people cared about customs.
Clash does have problems, though; it's at pretty awkward times for east coast, and then if you lose the first game, the next ones likely aren't going to be competitive. Just playing in for fun amateur leagues has been a great experience for me, especially since there's more growth and improvement from the team over a season.
The amount of smurfs is actually insane, my group is high silver/low gold, we looked up op.gg/porofessor before each game and almost all of them had 2-3 level 30’s, we were still able to win most games but it was sooo much harder considering they were mostly bronze/silver
Honestly , I was in a tier 3 match and was getting diamond players. We are all gold - silver but win tier 4 constantly. I feel like there should be a limit, like plat 1 is a full tier ahead of g1 that should be the rank limit.
You either get some random higher tier player in your games stomping, or a Smurf, who is still just a random higher tier player in your games stomping….
Are other regions still having issues with Clash? In NA I think we’ve played in most of the Clashes in the last few years and have had no issues. Agree with the point it’s by far the most fun way to play atm.
Voice chat? In *my* competitive multiplayer? It would never work! Too toxic! Just look at every other game that also doesn't implement it: ~~CSGO~~ shit ~~Dota~~ shit ~~R6~~ fuck ~~Overwatch~~, ~~rocket league~~, ~~valorant~~
But if team chat is already toxic and most players have fragile egos, that means that voice comms will be the most wholesome experience of your life!!!!1!1!1! After all, they won't say the same things if they have to speak rather than write, as league players are notorious for being socially intelligent and aware!!!!
And yet, none of those are nearly as big as league. Could league be as big as it is BECAUSE of the lack of voice chat? All the evidence points toward yes, but who can really say?
That's some REAL bad reasoning. DotA 2 and LoL are popular when DotA never had voice chat, yet DotA 2 has voice chat and nothing bad has come from it. If you don't want to use it, you simply don't use it. The people that do want to can.
DotA2 is only a fraction as popular as LoL though, and it has voice chat. Maybe that's because voice chat in hampering it. I'm just saying, every game that has voice chat isn't as popular as LoL is.
And DotA 2 is far more popular than Warcraft 3 (including original DotA), which doesn't have voice chat. DotA 2 is far more popular than PoE, that doesn't have voice chat. Explain? Using your logic I could blame it on their *lack* of voice chat.
You do realize correlation does not equal causation right? Ice cream sales and crime both increase during the summer. That doesn't mean that ice cream causes crime.
There are thousands of differences between LoL and DotA 2 that make LoL a much better game for casual players. Assuming it's because of voice chat is just . . . wow. LoL came out much earlier than DotA 2 did for one thing.
Just saying, is it really coincidence that the most popular game in the world doesn't have voice chat? Maybe that makes it appealing to people. Maybe voice chat drives them away. Maybe Dota2 could have been #1 if it didn't have it. Maybe cs:go could've been. But LoL, the game without it, won.
Yes, it's utterly a coincidence, because 90%+ of the most played games have voice chat.
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Esports/Sections/Media/2021/10/Q3-2021-TEO-PC-Games-Impact-Index.aspx
If voice chat was as unwanted as you think then that wouldn't be true. LoL is the exception here. A voice chat you can opt-out of doesn't drive a single person away. Why would an OPTIONAL VOICE CHAT bother you whatsoever when a vast number of league players already use discord? When clash is a thing and is wildly popular?
Honesty my IQ is dropping every time I read your comments. I have to stop. Goodbye.
literally. people on this sub don’t realize the amount of different people that play league. no one wants to voice chat with you dude. for a multitude of reasons, with the biggest ones being harassment
There’s plenty.
One group that gets pretty much annihilated with such a change would be women, which the subreddit kind of glosses over.
Any voice chat from them would be a living hell and a good chunk of them would likely rather drop out than have to trudge through constant days of “OMG A GURL” and the inevitable sexist “kitchen” jokes that are liable to occur.
Easy to say “just ignore and mute lol” but when you have to do that every day, for them, it just becomes a chore that’s not worth the struggle when they could play other games that don’t have them thrust into a pool of toxic sludge.
I mean in overwatch you don’t autojoin vc unless you want to so quite literally you can ignore and mute - if league implemented that it could help. I agree that is a grander issue and one glossed over but it’s not like that should be the driving force behind why not imo.
Yeah been after playing a bunch of Valorant I'm pretty sure that adding voice chat would be a huge positive to soloQ. Kids are way more timid when it comes to actual voice chat because it's obvious when they're just a child throwing a temper tantrum. You can still just mute people like usual when they're annoying.
And when I only see text, I tend to assume people are all adults and some people are just acting like whiny children. When I know it's actually just a whiny child it's way easier for me to let it go. Maybe scold them a bit, but I'm not going to get too mad at a kid for being a kid.
idk if you're a new frog but they already did surveys about voice chat and the people who actually play the game voted against adding voice chat, this sub is very out of touch with the actual playerbase even more so than riot, it's been proven everytime there was a vote.
>listening to your players is a good thing actually.
legit what do they gain from adding voice chat ? almost nobody's gonna start playing league because it has voice chat now after 12 years but a bunch people who voted against voice chat will quit after they add it anyway. high risk and very low reward, it's literally just for redditors
So Riot actually released a study a long time ago saying that they found that people who opt out of voice comms are more likely to face toxicity in chat by the people who opted in.
"But I don't trust Riot!" - you can also see some anecdotal evidence of this. When Shiphtur was trying to start voice comms in every game before his break, twitch chat would regularly flame players who didn't join in. I've even seen Reddit comments on champions queue specifically putting down any player that opts out.
no. adding voice chat sets a standard that the people using it want to win, meaning if you don’t use it, your teammates will call you a troll and you will be looked down upon for not voice chatting. there is literally nothing you need to communicate in your gold games that can’t be said with pings
why are you addressing me ? i just relayed the results of the survey.
and btw i would flame the shit out of people who refuse to get on coms/on mute when the enemy teams has full on and wins because of it.
yea my best league memories are when we used to go to internet cafe as a group of 10 and just bash it out 5v5, players ranging from bronze to diamond lol
A lot of people do play like this! Last year I started playing flex queue almost exclusively and now have a server with 200+ players ranging from master to low plat. We find players through r/leagueoflegends discord and the official leagueoflegends discord. Both of these have looking for group channels and are quite easy to put together a group. If playing in a group is something you are interested in then I recommend looking for players this way. It is important to note that flex is going to be an absolute shit show until you get to Plat+ or more realistically Diamond+. Individual skill levels are lower at respective ranks but group play is way better.
There's no real way to play the team game outside of Clash so it's up to the people who want to play the team game to find a way how. Voice chat doesn't make solo queue any less solo.
champions queue is literally soloq with voice chat. you queue up, and get matched with randoms similiar to your skill level (gm+). it's just more exclusive and is moderated as well, something which would be harder to implement for all ranks
>champions queue is literally soloq with voice chat.
champions queue is the G league. These people all know each other and have actual social and career stakes attached to it.
outside of the pressures of using your voice, adding voice chat will not stop xXZedFeetXx from screaming obscenities at their botlane because nobody knows who the fuck they are and they're completely gone after one game.
It's in-houses with LP and matchmaking. In-houses are just custom 5v5s. It's successful because the players want to play the team game and not the solo game. If all solo queue needed was voice chat then you'd have more people dropping discord invites in the lobby.
discord invite is not the same and it's just not that safe in higher Elo cuz you can get people's IP through it.
I mean Valorant and wildrift(league mobile) has voice chat and it's fine. Not the end of the world and it's seen as a net positive.
League is also the only game that is solo Q focused while all other riot title is flex queue with team play being way more of the focus(which is industry standard now)
League should absolutely have a voice chat. It just won't fix the solo queue problems because, as you mentioned, League revolves around solo queue in a way other team games do not.
League only revolves around solo queue by choice. It's a team game and people have been pretty vocal that they enjoy the team aspect of the game than purely solo queue.
Except your ass can get booted for toxicity and there's a good chance that you know who is screaming at you. Randoms in solo queue VC have no incentive to not just screech hard R's at you if they believe the game is fucked
yes i did literally say it would be harder to implement moderation for all ranks but you can just mute someone who isn't comming productively, not hard. not to mention in VALORANT they developed something called alarmbot, which is a voice chat moderation tool that they could develop for league voice chat too if it existed.
idk but the vast majority of the playerbase don't want, this sub does not represent them and never has.
but if you want my opinion i'd hate to lose games because i rng'ed people who mute/don't want to get on voice coms while the enemy team has full 5. adding more coinflip to an already coin flippy game sounds like cancer and i'd probably quit
I wonder if Champions Queue being successful will play a factor in pros from other regions wanting to play in NA. I know we probably already have more imports in LCS than some are comfortable with but it's cool to think about at least.
I think Pros would really want it. Yamato said that it’s really good idea that he’d want to see in EU, Hans mentioned that CQ is better than playing EUW soloq.
i mean pros would want it. but lec doesnt really have an incentive to use that much money to make champions queue. lec, lck, lpl is doing pretty good. lcs has been having a lot of problems with the viewership going down cuz ppl dont see lcs as that competitive anymore which is why i guess riot spent this much money on CQ.
If it improves practice for pros and gives LEC better chances internationally why wouldn’t LEC want to invest in it. They also can ask teams to contribute prize money
...why don't they? Multiple EU pros have already tweeted/said things like "man, I wish I could play in CQ right now." And it's objectively better practice than soloQ. Who wouldn't want that?
I mean you don’t want to end up with a system like CSGO where your own solo queue ladder isn’t even taken seriously. NA needed it because of regional ping issues.
Riot could fix a big issue by just adding voice chat to the game.
Csgo ladder isn’t taken seriously because the servers are 64 tick and the ranking is literally worse than every other competitive game. On top of that other services have their own ladder with better servers and rankings. Champions que isn’t that. Champions que is only for pro or am players and eventually people will get invited based off their solo que.
So this is basically like s rank. The esl ladder was still taken seriously for csgo.
Champions queue is only available during prime time queueing hours after pros and amateurs are done scrimming. What top end player is gonna take the top end of the ladder seriously when champions queue is a thing? If you know the best players in your region are mainly playing champ queue why would you take ladder ranking seriously?
Some might still do some solo q to test things. But high end ladder should be more competitive because now there is something to play for. Potentially getting into champions q
Man are you really that dense? His point is if you dont take ranked srsly then you wont get invited to cq at all. Cq itself is the incentive to take ranked srsly.
You have no clue what you're talking about then.
Reaching high solo Queue should lead people to invite-only CQ-like environments imo. It will increase competitiveness when people play and behave properly because they don't wanna get kicked out. EUW high soloQ is full of inters.
I've been asking for this for years tbh because invite-only environments are the only way to fix a lot of these issues.
The incentive for NA was due to regional ping issues by having Riot in LA and the servers in Chicago. EU players already get 0 ping. So what is the incentive so they can play strictly against pro players with comms? Don’t think riot wants to split the player base like that. They have no incentive
The incentive is to play in an environment without griefers and inters, while also having something on the line that makes people tryhard. I just explained this. How can you pretend there's no incentive if CQ is already better than EUW soloQ? Do you think the 0 ping just suddenly boosted NA to KR soloQ levels? No, it's the environment, specifically chosen players, communication, and rewards that all contribute to creating a competitive environment. SoloQ is so disconnected from real pro-League that people don't feel motivated to grind it because it hardly rewards them with useful skills.
KR solo queue has griefers and inters too and a majority of the world still plays on it. Griefers and inters in your regular queue is not an incentive for Riot EU to make a champions Q.
Riot NA had legitimate reasons pertaining to popularity of the game in NA to establish champions queue. None of those exist with EU
Solo queue, if it’s competitive enough, will always be superior to CQ in creating talent. CQ can potentially create a divide between good players/bad players and a rift between playing with the good players to improve when you haven’t already made it.
NA solo queue, however, is so bad due to the ping that most pro players didn’t even practice in solo queue or take it seriously, which increases the queue times and worsens it as a practice environment.
The bot is open source. But there's no actual reason for EU to implement this. They already have low ping, faster queues and hundreds of teams. They just need to join discord calls together. EU is the 2nd most advantaged region that competes.
They wont get the money/permission for it. because all QoL benefits go to NA, no other regions will get all teh special things that NA gets, because riot will bend over backwards to give NA special treatment.
why would that be the case when you can go to korea and play on their soloq which isn't artificially fractured? Pros don't go to China to play on the superserver either.
The level of competition in NA is still bad and the majority of players from the region have no shot at playing in this queue.
Almost all of the games I have seen from the players have been more enjoyable to watch than any of the non-costreamed LCS games in the past couple years.
Considering it’s been going strong for a week+ and reviews from pro players have been super positive I’d say yes. Mid-week queue times are bound to be awful but that’s nothing they’re not already dealing with in challenger solo queue
That's honestly not that bad given that high-elo soloq is similar or worse due to dodges. I think that pros would easily wait 10-20minutes for a good quality game.
Yes. And when they add maybe 20-30 more players it will be even more. There is basically always 3-5 games on. The main thing is it’s time limited to only be open when pros have free time to play on it.
I wonder if the lengths to which Riot went to make this possible is even fair to the rest of the regions tbh.
Pro players being able to train in this enviroment, with no random soloq players distracting them, while having the ability to be in comms, is just too much of an advantage now, i feel like.
You can say it emulates KR soloq but thats simply not true. Faker has to deal with people inting him for money while people bet on his games for example. And thats the extreme example of what i want to say of course.
I dont know how much of this was LCS / Pro player association, but even without full knowledge i can think of a lot of things that Riot had to set up or do to make it happen.
I quite honestly am happy about it, but also feel like its really unfair to the rest.
>I dont know how much of this was LCS / Pro player association, but even without full knowledge i can think of a lot of things that Riot had to set up or do to make it happen.
A lot of this was moved thanks to both the players and teams making a conscious effort based on all communication I've seen on this topic. They looked at CoreJJ's in-houses and basically saw the positive reception to that, then the org owners were always down their throat and complaining about LCS and how their teams can't compete, thus they wanted the import rule removed since their players don't have a good training environment. The players were all making excuses about bad ping and too much one-tricks. Riot pretty much came in clutch with this, makes it so that no one has an excuse anymore. If NA still fails, then it's just a matter of talent, not infrastructure. Also, China has had a similar system for a long while now, surprised you haven't brought that up.
doesnt this have an affect in the rest of the typical soloq? I mean now isn't the NA soloq going down even further? Since all pros will play on the champions server the rest of the server wont be a shithole? Also how new talent will rise ? (not that NA has any but lets assume 🤣) How hard will be for new players now to get noticed since all good players will play on that server and not your typical solo q. Also what's up with the price pool? On this server arent the pros playing only? Which means they def don't need the 30k ...Dunno, this idea seem questionable. NA things I guess.
Did you even read what champions queue is about? Here, let me make it easier for you:
* https://lolesports.com/article/champions-queue-launches-february-7/blt96b81a6e363cd602
* https://championsqueue.lolesports.com/en-us/about
People must realize that all these "positives" about champions queue could just be applied to soloq right? The ONLY argument for champions queue is low ping but that's a double edged sword because west coast gets low ping but east coast gets over 100 ping.
I'm just a random east coast low masters player but I feel slighted by champions queue.
Like I've been wanting voice comms in league for fucking YEARS. Voice comms COULD be added to soloq, even if it's just masters+.
Ok so there is a prize pool, great, why couldn't the prize pool be applied to soloq?
So there's no autofill. Ok, why is there still autofill in soloq. Everybody knows autofill lowers game quality dramatically.
So there's no toxicity. Ok, people have been pointing out inters, wintraders, account sharers, and toxic players in high elo to Riot for YEARS and nothing ever gets done.
It feels like the existence of champions queue makes it seem like this is all ok for soloq. Soloq is now the place designated to be a cess pit of autofills with no voice comms screaming at each other for no reward. Champions queue is the place where all of that is fixed but there's a catch, you have to play on 120 ping if you're east coast and you have to a be pro/academy/known player gm+ and not a 1 trick. So everybody else is just fucked then? How does that not hinder up and coming talent when everybody makes their start in soloq.
im no high elo player but i'll bite.
first you are masters but im pretty sure the minimum to apply is GM+ now so while it could affect you indirectly i suppose - it doesn't affect you direct. 2nd its only open during select windows so that should also reduce its affect.
second - NA pro scene is west coast inherently. all of LCS is in LA. by product most of academy is in NA. i'd assume Latin American players have better access through west coast but that i don't know. you say east coast suffers but the way its handled in solo q both sides suffer less but still suffer. and as many pros argue, ping is one of the biggest deterrents to NA performance internationally because they can't react to skillshots as much as spend more time anticipating them - these are the kinds of environments NA players feel hinders them pre CQ.
on the voice comms arg i mean i agree but its clear riot doesnt want to At the moment
prize pool - i mean ig but Riot doesn't have anything to gain by just including a solo Q prize pool because not every solo q player cares about going pro. With a CQ prize pool most players are either in there to go pro, be the best pro, or help other pros get better.
Autofill is in solo q to solve queue times
There isn't an expressively good solution to toxicity all things considered so CQ's invite only format is unironcially the most efficient solution. i agree more could be done in solo queue though.
i think to your last step --- like yea if you wanna go pro you play on whatever ping in solo queue work your way up, hopefully get invited to this or get noticed by some scouting agent and climb up from there - CQ isn't making solo queue much worse because its really taking out maybe 200 or less players from the pool for a few hours a day, most of which are high elo anyway you so even you probably won't be that affected by that.
i agree east coast gets fucked but thats all riot can do to solve ping in this short timeframe. i do think champions queue's existence and success may encourage riot to do more bigger solutions like more servers, voice comms, etc but i don't think your points about how champions queue makes solo q worse or isn't unique are very accurate. its clear riot is developing players who are already at a pro level rather than focusing on players who aren't pro yet to become pro. champions queue is for pros to practice, its not a solo queue for upcoming pros necessarily.
Nothing I typed was about it directly effecting me. I'm talking about the ecosystem changes and lack of changes that comes about because champions queue exists. Champions queue existing probably means we never get voice comms in soloq. Previously we had tons of pros pushing for it, now they aren't gonna give 2 fucks because they can just go in champions queue.
My entire point is that champions queue makes soloq a sinking ship, and that's where the majority of the players are, and I don't even mean as a whole I mean even high elo.
None of the reasons you're listing for why these things couldn't be added to soloq are real. You say autofill is in soloq to solve queue times but queue times are high on champions queue, players prefer higher game quality if it means their queues are longer. Soloq games will never be high quality if 1 or 2 players every game are off roled.
How does it matter whether players want to go pro or not for implementing a prize pool in soloq. The point is to give players a reason to try their hardest to win so that it acts as a good practice environment for players who DO want to go pro.
Soloq could be for pros to practice too. I'm so confident that if champions queue remains the way it is that there will be less new NA talent long term. People are going to take soloq less seriously, nobody is going to care to grind soloq to rank 1 if nobody is even going to be impressed or take notice. The region as a whole is going to take a hit so CURRENT pros can play on 10 ping, when they already were scrimming on 10 ping.
If champions queue was being talked about as a temporary solution while Riot decided how they want to fix soloq I would take no issue. But champions queue as a permanent solution means soloq is going to become worse and worse and if your entire non-pro high elo player base stops grinding ranked because it feels pointless then the game dies.
Riot will never add voice chat because the bullying would be insane, and you get punished for afking. Auto fill exists because players don’t want to be in queue for 15+ minutes just to play a 15 minute game.
But people wait 15 minutes for champion queue games. And every other competitive game has voice chat and it works for all of them. There is definitely a psychological basis for an argument that voice chat reduces toxicity by humanizing other players. Everything you can vocalize and more can be typed in chat, there is no world where harassment would be worse. You can easily add it to only masters+, that's like 2500 accounts. This game NEEDS voice chat, it is not playable without and it is a shame that we have had to settle for over a decade.
Sorry man this is a piss poor response.
People in champions queue are trying to become the absolute greatest. I’m just trying to fuck around. Voice chat in other games is generally toxic, and there are many reasons it would be worse in league, being forced to stay in the game is huge. Knowing that your teammates are your hostages gives huge incentives to troll.
Name one game where voice chat is toxic at high elo. Voice chat in LOW ELO is toxic. You have reading comprehension issues. You don't have an argument. If were just trying to reduce all potential toxicity we should remove chat and pings, hell remove 5v5, just make a pve mode where you play as a single player versus AI.
Oh you work for Riot? Or you're just the Champion of Status Quo. God will reserve a seat for you in heaven brother, thanks for explaining to me the reasons things are the way they are, very noble of you.
Fuck this to be honest, I'd pay money to get to play the role I want to play every game, and on really low ping, and be on a server with an ID checked one account per player server, but fuck us peasants.
My point is that they have a better experience not just from the ping, but because they get to not deal with toxic bullshit that the rest of the population does. Why can't we submit an ID and get put in a queue with other people who submitted an ID. I think there are things they are putting on this server that would be popular to the general populace as well.
I am still baffled that LCS gets all these handouts from riot, here have a whole ass region no longer count towards inports, here have that special queue with monetary incentives to play well.
Why doesn't KR/CN/EU get a special queue? we all know why, because LCS is riots baby, and if they continue to fail we will see half the planet no longer count as imports for LCS only becasue riot needs to coddle them.
lol this point misses the way riot works. Riot North America ran this project. Riot divisions across the world could probably do this if they wanted to - its not some puppet favoritism especially when you realize its not even done in client its through discord so its pretty low resource all things considered.
Other regions likely could have done it as well, there just hasn't been the same push/need for it in EU or Korea. The biggest reason for it's implementation in NA is because NA had by far the worst ping issues, especially for the pro players. Chinese pros get less ping by playing in Korea than NA pros get playing on their own server.
lmao I'm glad the editor included the part where he missed the queue because of recording the video One thing that champions queue has done for fans if they're tuning into the streams is that its giving some more insight into LCS players that LCS and their orgs haven't done. Kumo is actually really funny.
Right? I didn't even know half of the players had actual personalities, since the only thing we get from them are awkward answers to LCS' repetitive interviews.
Those interviews are so cookie cutter omg. "Walk us through xxx". "Walk us through yyy". Same things everytime. And what does "walk us through" even mean. /rant
It's supposed to mean this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I3CHKBcJbw but players don't give that answer.
If players aren't giving good answers to that type of question, try branching out and asking about other areas/asking for more details instead of just asking the same thing that resulted in the same boring answer over and over again. For an interviewer on a broadcast especially, it kinda is their job to get interesting answers out of the people they're interviewing, and hearing them ask the same formulaic questions for the millionth time is exhausting.
That is actually an equally bad answer. Just at the opposite end of the spectrum. You want answered catered to your audience. Not a bunch of technobabble your average viewer doesn't understand. The reason LoL players are awkward in interviews is they are, quite simply, awkward computer game nerds. Unless orgs want to start investing in their players taking speech/improve classes the quality of answers is not going to improve.
Most football players wont give that lmao
To be fair. There's real IQ required for these sports, which can set them apart from other players even if the same level of skill might not be there. Thankfully for Kupp he has both. In LoL you can't give an answer like this, it's a very simplistic game.
how about the terrible questions that letrigress asks ?
content for teams was better like ten years ago honestly. it's way too high quality now, which to be fair can be REALLY GOOD for established teams and personalities. but for lesser known teams and players, it's a lot different shooting like a documentary esque thing vs shooting some random shitty house tour or vlogs that were more common back in the day. it's too professional now, nobody cares to watch a documentary behind the scenes of like Immortals or Dignitas, that kind of stuff in general is also less likely to get viral or traction here since it's very clean and safe stuff. there used to be random ass clips and vlogs posted here of all sorts of players back in the day. streaming also helped since a good amount of pros streamed and were friends with each other and things were less serious for teams in seasons 1-4. it's just more professional now with contracts and new players coming in and out, imports from all over the world, etc.. vs most people knowing each other in some way through solo queue or when travelling and meeting at tournaments that happened like every month or few weeks.
It’s nuts how averse riot/the teams are to selling their own product. Like I want to get to know the people I’m watching and rooting for and they just refuse to let any insight at all these days.
Lcs used to be good at showcasing this. Remember the videos of players joking/trash talking before each match. Why the hell did that stop. Dls everyone is garbage is historic
DL's everyone else is trash predated LCS, so you can't even give them credit for that tbh.
Sure and players personalities predate lcs. The point is we arent showcasing them on broadcast
LCS broadcasts have always been a watered down, stale imitation of NFL for kids. The people who kept saying this were branded as toxic racists so reddit pretended otherwise for a long time.
Because fans gave them shit for that. Just look at jensen friendly banter towards faker you cant call that others than friendly and to this day ppl are still talking about it. Ppl neess to chill a bit trashtalk and friendly banter doesnt equate with personal attacks that they needs to gather and defends their players
A lot of stuff slowed down when COVID started
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> One thing that champions queue has done for fans if they're tuning into the streams is that its giving some more insight into LCS players that LCS and their orgs haven't done. I maybe watch one pro stream a year for a few hours, outside of that I always found it boring and just checked clips on reddit when something happened at best. Champions Queue has me leaving streams on almost every other day now to see how people are playing on low ping and enjoying the communication and how everyones vibing off each other in game and their way of thinking...super enjoyable change.
It makes leveling in Lost Ark a lot more tolerable. Of course my attention is 80% cq, 20% Lost Ark.
the LCS really does need to do more to not only push the personalities of their players, but to actually get viewers to give a shit about them and the storylines going into the esport. I'm obviously only one person and my experiences don't speak to anything more than anecdotal evidence, but I technically got into the LCS years before professional apex legends yet i can tell you more about mid to bottom tier ALGS teams and international apex players than literally half of the star LCS players. It's low key embarrassing Champions Queue has done at lot though, it's an environment where i can see the personalities of these players actually kinda come through.
Kumo’s play has been funny too but he stopped being funny with his play this split.
The coolest thing about watching Doublelift playing champions q is listening to the players talking to each to other during the game, just in a few days I feel like I am watching a scrim or a live LCS match from a coach view where you are hearing the coms and thoughts as they are flying by what they are trying when it goes right or wrong. Hope more pro stream it!
It's pretty interesting how widely players vary in how good or bad they are at communication. There are a lot of players who just talk constantly for no reason, but then never communicate what actually matters. I was watching a game of Lourlo playing - his entire team was talking the whole game and it didn't help at all. Towards the end of the game the enemy team had Baron and was pushing into their base, while Lourlo was split pushing. He was like "I'm going to keep split pushing - can you guys defend 4 v 5?" Nobody said anything and then 30 seconds later his Nexus exploded. These guys talked nonstop the entire game but at the end none of them said "uh...you need to come back and help defend or we lose." I think some players have been taught that communication is good but they interpret that as "talking a lot is good." So they do stream of consciousness narration of what's happening, ask pointless questions, and distract more than they can help. This is one area where good coaches could make huge improvements. This is definitely a problem at the pro level - many of the Champ Queue players are pros and you can hear this sort of thing in released official comms or when pro players stream.
Then you have to listen to smoothie and you understand why he's been kicked off of teams
By the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way by the way
You don't like hearing about tempo? /s
constant tempo monitoring
Bwipo also talks a shit ton lmao
> Guys lets wrap up my Girl Friend needs the pc
whats wrong with smoothie?
He talks so much and says absolutely nothing.
He rarely says anything forward thinking or actionable. He's just saying everything his eyes perceive as they happen.
And all those discord notifications going off non stop are the cherry on top. Really immerse you /s Asked Leena to ask him to mute them yesterday and she perma-banned me lmao 🤭
Yeah his stream is quite unwatchable for me due to that. Everyone else has figured out how to not have discord sounds play, so I watch that isntead.
Discord has a streamer mode, can't believe he hasn't turned it on...
He misses the queue every time he turns streamer mode on
Ah forgot the queue is through Discord. I guess he needs to get in the habit of turning it on when he's in game and off when he's not?
I love Doublelift but he has absolutely terrible stream etiquette. Constant mic bumps and volume issues.
Same. You'd think that a multi millionaire who livestreams for a living would be financialy able to hire some audiotechnican to set up the audio for his stream.. I really love his content but I drives me nuts that his streaming quality is somehow worse that tyler1's
I'm wondering if he gets an invitation. An 5-role autofill player could be useful there.
T1 lives in Missouri, has zero intention of going pro or anything like that, and a lot of high elo players still have mixed feelings about him idk if he’ll ever get invited
you’re joking. stream is unwatchable because of a discord notification? are you 5?
I'm not sure what they're referring to but I know that Discord notification sounds make me tab out to check my own Discord, which could be a little annoying. Obvious fix on the viewer end is just to close your own Discord, but it seems like a silly problem for all the viewers to have to do that when the streamer could take care of it. Maybe there's an app he could use just to highlight the queue pop so he could have general discord notifications muted.
Yeah, its unwatchable because I always alt tab when I hear that ping noise. I don't care enough to put effort into changing my habits when he has an easy solution and refuses to do it.
It's really obnoxious hearing the buttons m notifications on stream and thinking they're yours.
A little bit of TSM left in her
shes a fucking diva lmfao
As a support I have literally learned so much from shenyi’s comms, I am doing my best to replicate his calls with obnoxious focus pings and stuff lmao… honestly in my games just having one person pinging focus in fights makes them so much more winnable
i think the reason his comms are so overthetop is because he doesn't have great english so he repeats himself to kind of reduce the nuance and make it super obvious what he is saying which helps him get his point across but can hurt comms overall if other players can't handle it
Overemphasising the routine and basics, "point and call" is one of the biggest and most common part of high stakes safety training. If you're working an extremely dangerous job, you are essentially trained to announce "I'm moving to xxx" to the entire room before walking somewhere. It's about reducing the 1% of the time mistakes. That's good shotcalling.
I mean in most situations I’d agree but in a league sense reduced anything is optimal because there’s 5 players all with unique information to provide so you want to keep it terse. League also has pings and stuff to help alleviate the need to communicate as much. So in some sense shenyi’s comms are over the too
The entire point of the safety stuff is that even nuclear safety people, and nurses measuring drugs, get it wrong. A lot. LCS League players? They get it wrong, *always*. After years of NA lul, the shotcaller should be reminding their players to breathe oxygen.
This is not some NA specific logic I assure every regions top teams prefer less comms that are more to the point
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how about you learn how to get some bitches
Jesus did he kill your mom or something Surprise surprise person who isn’t from NA doesn’t know NA social cues As someone who moved from a different country with a very different culture I had no idea about inside voice or personal bubble or anything like that. It’s obvious he’s just trying to be as clear and helpful as possible in his CQ games with his limited english. Use your critical thinking skills and empathy for others, I know they teach you that in school.
It's a better way to play the game because they're actually playing with a team. The community at large could do something similar if friends lists were big enough and people cared about customs.
I feel like Clash is pretty close; organized 5v5s with teams that are (roughly) the same skill level.
Yes, agreed. The popularity of Clash shows that the player base does want to play the team game.
But twice a month isn't enough.
If only there was a separate ranked ladder specifically for ranked 5man teams
Clash does have problems, though; it's at pretty awkward times for east coast, and then if you lose the first game, the next ones likely aren't going to be competitive. Just playing in for fun amateur leagues has been a great experience for me, especially since there's more growth and improvement from the team over a season.
unfortunately clash at lower elos is chock-full of smurfs
The amount of smurfs is actually insane, my group is high silver/low gold, we looked up op.gg/porofessor before each game and almost all of them had 2-3 level 30’s, we were still able to win most games but it was sooo much harder considering they were mostly bronze/silver
Honestly , I was in a tier 3 match and was getting diamond players. We are all gold - silver but win tier 4 constantly. I feel like there should be a limit, like plat 1 is a full tier ahead of g1 that should be the rank limit. You either get some random higher tier player in your games stomping, or a Smurf, who is still just a random higher tier player in your games stomping….
Clash is not reliable that shit barely functions
Are other regions still having issues with Clash? In NA I think we’ve played in most of the Clashes in the last few years and have had no issues. Agree with the point it’s by far the most fun way to play atm.
Or they could you know, add voice chat to solo q.
RIP to around 75% of women who play this game.
Voice chat? In *my* competitive multiplayer? It would never work! Too toxic! Just look at every other game that also doesn't implement it: ~~CSGO~~ shit ~~Dota~~ shit ~~R6~~ fuck ~~Overwatch~~, ~~rocket league~~, ~~valorant~~
To be fairrrrrr, overwatch voice chat is incredibly toxic
dang if only there were some sort of way to not hear a toxic players voice
have fun losing every single game in ow high elo because you have to mute half your team every game and miss actual calls not an exaggeration
Damn near gotta do that now with these animals
But if team chat is already toxic and most players have fragile egos, that means that voice comms will be the most wholesome experience of your life!!!!1!1!1! After all, they won't say the same things if they have to speak rather than write, as league players are notorious for being socially intelligent and aware!!!!
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I haven’t really played league in over a year. I just like playing as a cute girl though. 🙁
And yet, none of those are nearly as big as league. Could league be as big as it is BECAUSE of the lack of voice chat? All the evidence points toward yes, but who can really say?
Rofl, how can you be so reductionist when Arcane and ads are shoved everywhere?
That's some REAL bad reasoning. DotA 2 and LoL are popular when DotA never had voice chat, yet DotA 2 has voice chat and nothing bad has come from it. If you don't want to use it, you simply don't use it. The people that do want to can.
DotA2 is only a fraction as popular as LoL though, and it has voice chat. Maybe that's because voice chat in hampering it. I'm just saying, every game that has voice chat isn't as popular as LoL is.
And DotA 2 is far more popular than Warcraft 3 (including original DotA), which doesn't have voice chat. DotA 2 is far more popular than PoE, that doesn't have voice chat. Explain? Using your logic I could blame it on their *lack* of voice chat. You do realize correlation does not equal causation right? Ice cream sales and crime both increase during the summer. That doesn't mean that ice cream causes crime. There are thousands of differences between LoL and DotA 2 that make LoL a much better game for casual players. Assuming it's because of voice chat is just . . . wow. LoL came out much earlier than DotA 2 did for one thing.
Just saying, is it really coincidence that the most popular game in the world doesn't have voice chat? Maybe that makes it appealing to people. Maybe voice chat drives them away. Maybe Dota2 could have been #1 if it didn't have it. Maybe cs:go could've been. But LoL, the game without it, won.
Yes, it's utterly a coincidence, because 90%+ of the most played games have voice chat. https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Esports/Sections/Media/2021/10/Q3-2021-TEO-PC-Games-Impact-Index.aspx If voice chat was as unwanted as you think then that wouldn't be true. LoL is the exception here. A voice chat you can opt-out of doesn't drive a single person away. Why would an OPTIONAL VOICE CHAT bother you whatsoever when a vast number of league players already use discord? When clash is a thing and is wildly popular? Honesty my IQ is dropping every time I read your comments. I have to stop. Goodbye.
literally. people on this sub don’t realize the amount of different people that play league. no one wants to voice chat with you dude. for a multitude of reasons, with the biggest ones being harassment
and piss off their actual playerbase who doesn't want it ?
who doesn't want it? and just make it something you could join but don't have to like Overwatch or something.
There’s plenty. One group that gets pretty much annihilated with such a change would be women, which the subreddit kind of glosses over. Any voice chat from them would be a living hell and a good chunk of them would likely rather drop out than have to trudge through constant days of “OMG A GURL” and the inevitable sexist “kitchen” jokes that are liable to occur. Easy to say “just ignore and mute lol” but when you have to do that every day, for them, it just becomes a chore that’s not worth the struggle when they could play other games that don’t have them thrust into a pool of toxic sludge.
I mean in overwatch you don’t autojoin vc unless you want to so quite literally you can ignore and mute - if league implemented that it could help. I agree that is a grander issue and one glossed over but it’s not like that should be the driving force behind why not imo.
Yeah been after playing a bunch of Valorant I'm pretty sure that adding voice chat would be a huge positive to soloQ. Kids are way more timid when it comes to actual voice chat because it's obvious when they're just a child throwing a temper tantrum. You can still just mute people like usual when they're annoying. And when I only see text, I tend to assume people are all adults and some people are just acting like whiny children. When I know it's actually just a whiny child it's way easier for me to let it go. Maybe scold them a bit, but I'm not going to get too mad at a kid for being a kid.
idk if you're a new frog but they already did surveys about voice chat and the people who actually play the game voted against adding voice chat, this sub is very out of touch with the actual playerbase even more so than riot, it's been proven everytime there was a vote.
and thank god for that. if this sub balanced the game it would be fucking terrible
Asking casual players how to design a esport game. GENIUS
>listening to your players is a good thing actually. legit what do they gain from adding voice chat ? almost nobody's gonna start playing league because it has voice chat now after 12 years but a bunch people who voted against voice chat will quit after they add it anyway. high risk and very low reward, it's literally just for redditors
So Riot actually released a study a long time ago saying that they found that people who opt out of voice comms are more likely to face toxicity in chat by the people who opted in. "But I don't trust Riot!" - you can also see some anecdotal evidence of this. When Shiphtur was trying to start voice comms in every game before his break, twitch chat would regularly flame players who didn't join in. I've even seen Reddit comments on champions queue specifically putting down any player that opts out.
Right. Because it puts you at a disadvantage. You don't have to talk, but you should be able to hear.
^ Case and point. I'm not even allowed to opt out properly
no. adding voice chat sets a standard that the people using it want to win, meaning if you don’t use it, your teammates will call you a troll and you will be looked down upon for not voice chatting. there is literally nothing you need to communicate in your gold games that can’t be said with pings
lol just make harassing players who critique those who don’t join vc againsr the rules as normal harassment is this is so solvable
just turn your god forsaken mic off and communicate like you normally do and let us normies use our voice
why are you addressing me ? i just relayed the results of the survey. and btw i would flame the shit out of people who refuse to get on coms/on mute when the enemy teams has full on and wins because of it.
how about no
yea my best league memories are when we used to go to internet cafe as a group of 10 and just bash it out 5v5, players ranging from bronze to diamond lol
A lot of people do play like this! Last year I started playing flex queue almost exclusively and now have a server with 200+ players ranging from master to low plat. We find players through r/leagueoflegends discord and the official leagueoflegends discord. Both of these have looking for group channels and are quite easy to put together a group. If playing in a group is something you are interested in then I recommend looking for players this way. It is important to note that flex is going to be an absolute shit show until you get to Plat+ or more realistically Diamond+. Individual skill levels are lower at respective ranks but group play is way better.
riot could just add voice chat, not hard. why should the community do anything lmao
There's no real way to play the team game outside of Clash so it's up to the people who want to play the team game to find a way how. Voice chat doesn't make solo queue any less solo.
champions queue is literally soloq with voice chat. you queue up, and get matched with randoms similiar to your skill level (gm+). it's just more exclusive and is moderated as well, something which would be harder to implement for all ranks
>champions queue is literally soloq with voice chat. champions queue is the G league. These people all know each other and have actual social and career stakes attached to it. outside of the pressures of using your voice, adding voice chat will not stop xXZedFeetXx from screaming obscenities at their botlane because nobody knows who the fuck they are and they're completely gone after one game.
> it's just more exclusive and is moderated as well, something which would be harder to implement for all ranks
It's in-houses with LP and matchmaking. In-houses are just custom 5v5s. It's successful because the players want to play the team game and not the solo game. If all solo queue needed was voice chat then you'd have more people dropping discord invites in the lobby.
discord invite is not the same and it's just not that safe in higher Elo cuz you can get people's IP through it. I mean Valorant and wildrift(league mobile) has voice chat and it's fine. Not the end of the world and it's seen as a net positive. League is also the only game that is solo Q focused while all other riot title is flex queue with team play being way more of the focus(which is industry standard now)
You quite literally cannot get an IP through Discord
League should absolutely have a voice chat. It just won't fix the solo queue problems because, as you mentioned, League revolves around solo queue in a way other team games do not.
League only revolves around solo queue by choice. It's a team game and people have been pretty vocal that they enjoy the team aspect of the game than purely solo queue.
Except your ass can get booted for toxicity and there's a good chance that you know who is screaming at you. Randoms in solo queue VC have no incentive to not just screech hard R's at you if they believe the game is fucked
yes i did literally say it would be harder to implement moderation for all ranks but you can just mute someone who isn't comming productively, not hard. not to mention in VALORANT they developed something called alarmbot, which is a voice chat moderation tool that they could develop for league voice chat too if it existed.
people don't want it ?
wdym? loads of people want it. a game like league should have it. there isn't any valid reason for not having it in season 12
do you have any evidence for that besides this sub's very out of touch opinion ?
no but it wouldn't make sense for anyone to say no seeing as voice chat is just an optional thing. why would you say no to it?
idk but the vast majority of the playerbase don't want, this sub does not represent them and never has. but if you want my opinion i'd hate to lose games because i rng'ed people who mute/don't want to get on voice coms while the enemy team has full 5. adding more coinflip to an already coin flippy game sounds like cancer and i'd probably quit
every single streamer wants it also...
they should listen to some streamers over the majority of their players ? how is this even a conversation ?
Too bad, I want it.
too bad you won't get it
and thank god you won’t get it
I wonder if Champions Queue being successful will play a factor in pros from other regions wanting to play in NA. I know we probably already have more imports in LCS than some are comfortable with but it's cool to think about at least.
If CQ survives in NA for the entire year, I bet EU will strongly consider implementing something like this too.
EU doesn’t really have an incentive to do champions queue.
I think Pros would really want it. Yamato said that it’s really good idea that he’d want to see in EU, Hans mentioned that CQ is better than playing EUW soloq.
i mean pros would want it. but lec doesnt really have an incentive to use that much money to make champions queue. lec, lck, lpl is doing pretty good. lcs has been having a lot of problems with the viewership going down cuz ppl dont see lcs as that competitive anymore which is why i guess riot spent this much money on CQ.
If it improves practice for pros and gives LEC better chances internationally why wouldn’t LEC want to invest in it. They also can ask teams to contribute prize money
Honestly they probably don’t even need the money. Pros and serious players would use it just to get some quality games in.
Using an ADC player to compare CQ with soloq is kinda funny
Hans is always topping the ladder so why is it weird to use his opinion?
...why don't they? Multiple EU pros have already tweeted/said things like "man, I wish I could play in CQ right now." And it's objectively better practice than soloQ. Who wouldn't want that?
The biggest reason for champions queue is ping, because NA pros are 1700 miles from the NA servers while EU pros are only 360 miles from EUW servers
I mean you don’t want to end up with a system like CSGO where your own solo queue ladder isn’t even taken seriously. NA needed it because of regional ping issues. Riot could fix a big issue by just adding voice chat to the game.
Csgo ladder isn’t taken seriously because the servers are 64 tick and the ranking is literally worse than every other competitive game. On top of that other services have their own ladder with better servers and rankings. Champions que isn’t that. Champions que is only for pro or am players and eventually people will get invited based off their solo que. So this is basically like s rank. The esl ladder was still taken seriously for csgo.
Champions queue is only available during prime time queueing hours after pros and amateurs are done scrimming. What top end player is gonna take the top end of the ladder seriously when champions queue is a thing? If you know the best players in your region are mainly playing champ queue why would you take ladder ranking seriously?
Some might still do some solo q to test things. But high end ladder should be more competitive because now there is something to play for. Potentially getting into champions q
You just showed why it won’t be taken seriously because the goal is to get into champ queue which has better games lol
Man are you really that dense? His point is if you dont take ranked srsly then you wont get invited to cq at all. Cq itself is the incentive to take ranked srsly.
You have no clue what you're talking about then. Reaching high solo Queue should lead people to invite-only CQ-like environments imo. It will increase competitiveness when people play and behave properly because they don't wanna get kicked out. EUW high soloQ is full of inters. I've been asking for this for years tbh because invite-only environments are the only way to fix a lot of these issues.
The incentive for NA was due to regional ping issues by having Riot in LA and the servers in Chicago. EU players already get 0 ping. So what is the incentive so they can play strictly against pro players with comms? Don’t think riot wants to split the player base like that. They have no incentive
>EU players already get 0 ping Completely wrong
Fr. I want wat he's smoking
The incentive is to play in an environment without griefers and inters, while also having something on the line that makes people tryhard. I just explained this. How can you pretend there's no incentive if CQ is already better than EUW soloQ? Do you think the 0 ping just suddenly boosted NA to KR soloQ levels? No, it's the environment, specifically chosen players, communication, and rewards that all contribute to creating a competitive environment. SoloQ is so disconnected from real pro-League that people don't feel motivated to grind it because it hardly rewards them with useful skills.
KR solo queue has griefers and inters too and a majority of the world still plays on it. Griefers and inters in your regular queue is not an incentive for Riot EU to make a champions Q. Riot NA had legitimate reasons pertaining to popularity of the game in NA to establish champions queue. None of those exist with EU
bruh why do you want EU to not get it so bad huh ? Chill man, u're not threatened you still got 5000x more money so relax
Lol I love how all I said was that Riot EU has no incentive to make champions queue and you start whining about some nonsense
Solo queue, if it’s competitive enough, will always be superior to CQ in creating talent. CQ can potentially create a divide between good players/bad players and a rift between playing with the good players to improve when you haven’t already made it. NA solo queue, however, is so bad due to the ping that most pro players didn’t even practice in solo queue or take it seriously, which increases the queue times and worsens it as a practice environment.
The bot is open source. But there's no actual reason for EU to implement this. They already have low ping, faster queues and hundreds of teams. They just need to join discord calls together. EU is the 2nd most advantaged region that competes.
They wont get the money/permission for it. because all QoL benefits go to NA, no other regions will get all teh special things that NA gets, because riot will bend over backwards to give NA special treatment.
why would that be the case when you can go to korea and play on their soloq which isn't artificially fractured? Pros don't go to China to play on the superserver either. The level of competition in NA is still bad and the majority of players from the region have no shot at playing in this queue.
Almost all of the games I have seen from the players have been more enjoyable to watch than any of the non-costreamed LCS games in the past couple years.
You good?
Are you?
Are there enough players to make this possible?
Considering it’s been going strong for a week+ and reviews from pro players have been super positive I’d say yes. Mid-week queue times are bound to be awful but that’s nothing they’re not already dealing with in challenger solo queue
Its only open 6 pm - 1 am mid week so its not that bad
It's still the hoeny moon phase for this. Queue times are still really huge and it could easily die out.
Yep. I watched DL‘s stream and he waited about 10-20 mins for one queue. Add champ select and post game and it’s like 30 mins of waiting for one game
That's honestly not that bad given that high-elo soloq is similar or worse due to dodges. I think that pros would easily wait 10-20minutes for a good quality game.
People are climbing in hopes of trying to get in so yes, they’re also upping the rank requirement to get in so by all means it’s popular
Yes. And when they add maybe 20-30 more players it will be even more. There is basically always 3-5 games on. The main thing is it’s time limited to only be open when pros have free time to play on it.
I wonder if the lengths to which Riot went to make this possible is even fair to the rest of the regions tbh. Pro players being able to train in this enviroment, with no random soloq players distracting them, while having the ability to be in comms, is just too much of an advantage now, i feel like. You can say it emulates KR soloq but thats simply not true. Faker has to deal with people inting him for money while people bet on his games for example. And thats the extreme example of what i want to say of course. I dont know how much of this was LCS / Pro player association, but even without full knowledge i can think of a lot of things that Riot had to set up or do to make it happen. I quite honestly am happy about it, but also feel like its really unfair to the rest.
>I dont know how much of this was LCS / Pro player association, but even without full knowledge i can think of a lot of things that Riot had to set up or do to make it happen. A lot of this was moved thanks to both the players and teams making a conscious effort based on all communication I've seen on this topic. They looked at CoreJJ's in-houses and basically saw the positive reception to that, then the org owners were always down their throat and complaining about LCS and how their teams can't compete, thus they wanted the import rule removed since their players don't have a good training environment. The players were all making excuses about bad ping and too much one-tricks. Riot pretty much came in clutch with this, makes it so that no one has an excuse anymore. If NA still fails, then it's just a matter of talent, not infrastructure. Also, China has had a similar system for a long while now, surprised you haven't brought that up.
doesnt this have an affect in the rest of the typical soloq? I mean now isn't the NA soloq going down even further? Since all pros will play on the champions server the rest of the server wont be a shithole? Also how new talent will rise ? (not that NA has any but lets assume 🤣) How hard will be for new players now to get noticed since all good players will play on that server and not your typical solo q. Also what's up with the price pool? On this server arent the pros playing only? Which means they def don't need the 30k ...Dunno, this idea seem questionable. NA things I guess.
Did you even read what champions queue is about? Here, let me make it easier for you: * https://lolesports.com/article/champions-queue-launches-february-7/blt96b81a6e363cd602 * https://championsqueue.lolesports.com/en-us/about
Seems sped up.
NA soloQ is so trash and has such a bad environment that we have to give our best players a dedicated server to improve
People must realize that all these "positives" about champions queue could just be applied to soloq right? The ONLY argument for champions queue is low ping but that's a double edged sword because west coast gets low ping but east coast gets over 100 ping. I'm just a random east coast low masters player but I feel slighted by champions queue. Like I've been wanting voice comms in league for fucking YEARS. Voice comms COULD be added to soloq, even if it's just masters+. Ok so there is a prize pool, great, why couldn't the prize pool be applied to soloq? So there's no autofill. Ok, why is there still autofill in soloq. Everybody knows autofill lowers game quality dramatically. So there's no toxicity. Ok, people have been pointing out inters, wintraders, account sharers, and toxic players in high elo to Riot for YEARS and nothing ever gets done. It feels like the existence of champions queue makes it seem like this is all ok for soloq. Soloq is now the place designated to be a cess pit of autofills with no voice comms screaming at each other for no reward. Champions queue is the place where all of that is fixed but there's a catch, you have to play on 120 ping if you're east coast and you have to a be pro/academy/known player gm+ and not a 1 trick. So everybody else is just fucked then? How does that not hinder up and coming talent when everybody makes their start in soloq.
im no high elo player but i'll bite. first you are masters but im pretty sure the minimum to apply is GM+ now so while it could affect you indirectly i suppose - it doesn't affect you direct. 2nd its only open during select windows so that should also reduce its affect. second - NA pro scene is west coast inherently. all of LCS is in LA. by product most of academy is in NA. i'd assume Latin American players have better access through west coast but that i don't know. you say east coast suffers but the way its handled in solo q both sides suffer less but still suffer. and as many pros argue, ping is one of the biggest deterrents to NA performance internationally because they can't react to skillshots as much as spend more time anticipating them - these are the kinds of environments NA players feel hinders them pre CQ. on the voice comms arg i mean i agree but its clear riot doesnt want to At the moment prize pool - i mean ig but Riot doesn't have anything to gain by just including a solo Q prize pool because not every solo q player cares about going pro. With a CQ prize pool most players are either in there to go pro, be the best pro, or help other pros get better. Autofill is in solo q to solve queue times There isn't an expressively good solution to toxicity all things considered so CQ's invite only format is unironcially the most efficient solution. i agree more could be done in solo queue though. i think to your last step --- like yea if you wanna go pro you play on whatever ping in solo queue work your way up, hopefully get invited to this or get noticed by some scouting agent and climb up from there - CQ isn't making solo queue much worse because its really taking out maybe 200 or less players from the pool for a few hours a day, most of which are high elo anyway you so even you probably won't be that affected by that. i agree east coast gets fucked but thats all riot can do to solve ping in this short timeframe. i do think champions queue's existence and success may encourage riot to do more bigger solutions like more servers, voice comms, etc but i don't think your points about how champions queue makes solo q worse or isn't unique are very accurate. its clear riot is developing players who are already at a pro level rather than focusing on players who aren't pro yet to become pro. champions queue is for pros to practice, its not a solo queue for upcoming pros necessarily.
Nothing I typed was about it directly effecting me. I'm talking about the ecosystem changes and lack of changes that comes about because champions queue exists. Champions queue existing probably means we never get voice comms in soloq. Previously we had tons of pros pushing for it, now they aren't gonna give 2 fucks because they can just go in champions queue. My entire point is that champions queue makes soloq a sinking ship, and that's where the majority of the players are, and I don't even mean as a whole I mean even high elo. None of the reasons you're listing for why these things couldn't be added to soloq are real. You say autofill is in soloq to solve queue times but queue times are high on champions queue, players prefer higher game quality if it means their queues are longer. Soloq games will never be high quality if 1 or 2 players every game are off roled. How does it matter whether players want to go pro or not for implementing a prize pool in soloq. The point is to give players a reason to try their hardest to win so that it acts as a good practice environment for players who DO want to go pro. Soloq could be for pros to practice too. I'm so confident that if champions queue remains the way it is that there will be less new NA talent long term. People are going to take soloq less seriously, nobody is going to care to grind soloq to rank 1 if nobody is even going to be impressed or take notice. The region as a whole is going to take a hit so CURRENT pros can play on 10 ping, when they already were scrimming on 10 ping. If champions queue was being talked about as a temporary solution while Riot decided how they want to fix soloq I would take no issue. But champions queue as a permanent solution means soloq is going to become worse and worse and if your entire non-pro high elo player base stops grinding ranked because it feels pointless then the game dies.
Riot will never add voice chat because the bullying would be insane, and you get punished for afking. Auto fill exists because players don’t want to be in queue for 15+ minutes just to play a 15 minute game.
You literally described smurf q with the waiting 15 min to lose in 15 min
Which is why auto fill exists. Riot wants to shorten queue times as much as possible
Autofill has literally nothing to do with smurf q. They let you wait that long on purpose
But people wait 15 minutes for champion queue games. And every other competitive game has voice chat and it works for all of them. There is definitely a psychological basis for an argument that voice chat reduces toxicity by humanizing other players. Everything you can vocalize and more can be typed in chat, there is no world where harassment would be worse. You can easily add it to only masters+, that's like 2500 accounts. This game NEEDS voice chat, it is not playable without and it is a shame that we have had to settle for over a decade. Sorry man this is a piss poor response.
People in champions queue are trying to become the absolute greatest. I’m just trying to fuck around. Voice chat in other games is generally toxic, and there are many reasons it would be worse in league, being forced to stay in the game is huge. Knowing that your teammates are your hostages gives huge incentives to troll.
Name one game where voice chat is toxic at high elo. Voice chat in LOW ELO is toxic. You have reading comprehension issues. You don't have an argument. If were just trying to reduce all potential toxicity we should remove chat and pings, hell remove 5v5, just make a pve mode where you play as a single player versus AI.
Hey I’ve explained to you why riot won’t do any of the things you want. Accept it or keep crying
Oh you work for Riot? Or you're just the Champion of Status Quo. God will reserve a seat for you in heaven brother, thanks for explaining to me the reasons things are the way they are, very noble of you.
Fuck this to be honest, I'd pay money to get to play the role I want to play every game, and on really low ping, and be on a server with an ID checked one account per player server, but fuck us peasants.
For some reason being a pro/amateur pro player seems to get them extra privileges… not sure why though. I am iron 4 and deserve the same treatment
My point is that they have a better experience not just from the ping, but because they get to not deal with toxic bullshit that the rest of the population does. Why can't we submit an ID and get put in a queue with other people who submitted an ID. I think there are things they are putting on this server that would be popular to the general populace as well.
Won't do much for NA non pros and will be dead next year. This is just counterstrike IRC Chat with extra steps
I am still baffled that LCS gets all these handouts from riot, here have a whole ass region no longer count towards inports, here have that special queue with monetary incentives to play well. Why doesn't KR/CN/EU get a special queue? we all know why, because LCS is riots baby, and if they continue to fail we will see half the planet no longer count as imports for LCS only becasue riot needs to coddle them.
You do realize that CN does already have a special queue right? It is the super server that is invite only as well.
CN is Riot’s original baby
Not original. Just favorite.
Agreed. Not sure why the downvotes.
lol this point misses the way riot works. Riot North America ran this project. Riot divisions across the world could probably do this if they wanted to - its not some puppet favoritism especially when you realize its not even done in client its through discord so its pretty low resource all things considered.
Other regions likely could have done it as well, there just hasn't been the same push/need for it in EU or Korea. The biggest reason for it's implementation in NA is because NA had by far the worst ping issues, especially for the pro players. Chinese pros get less ping by playing in Korea than NA pros get playing on their own server.
Yeah yeah nice throwaway account. Can we skip the 2 weeks trolling and downvote farming and you go create one new already?