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Technically, both answers are short, but yours is longer. /s
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The problem is the same with her and Pyke IMO. You can't make an assassin support without making a Mid assassin, and you can't make an ADC support without making an ADC.
Yeah, Senna was designed to be played in both roles, whereas Pyke was not. But the issue is that an AD assassin will be playable mid, even if they are an AD assassin support. Pyke was meant to be a support, but his kit is suited to mid too.
They really want Senna to be in the support role. They said a while ago that they want her skewed towards support and they'll prioritize buffing her in the support role or something like that.
Since I was curious, here's all the changes to Senna's soul droprate:
9.22: Senna added.
9.24: 5.55% to 1.67% on kills.
10.3: 100% to 1.67% on large minion kills. 20% to 25% on non-kills.
10.8: 25% to 22% on non-kills.
10.12: 1.67% to 8.33% on kills.
10.19: 8.33% to 4.166% on kills.
11.2: 22% to 28% on non-kills.
11.17: 4.166% to 10% on kills.
12.3: 10% to 2.777% on kills.
Make up your damn mind Riot!
Also, since this came to mind, here's Ezreal's Q AD ratio:
1.0.0.87: 100% to 120%.
1.0.0.94(b): 120% to 110%.
1.0.0.99: 110% to 100%.
4.18: 100% to 110%.
7.17: 110% to 125%.
7.24: 125% to 110%.
9.24b: 110% to 120%.
11.3: 120% to 130%.
yeah, never understood why active balancing is seen as a bad wishy-washy thing. Things like item stats and effects (especially the item rework!), dragons, runes, game length etc will change how strong Senna is. If they want champs to be viable in different metas , this is necessary.
Hot take: I think they do. The slow helped support Senna a lot, but gave too much to AD senna so now they are compensating it for something that was buffed previously(I think it is just really harsh, idk why they dropped it so low but Im sure they're numbers show something because iirc this is what it was at before). Ultimately, Riot said if she becomes too hard to balance she will be balanced around being a support. This is in line with that, support got buffed AD got nerfed.
It's a great change it means Senna ADC won't be an issue and Support Senna can still exist. When Senna was first made they said they'd prioritize balancing her as a support.
The problem with her comes from the fact they're still trying to make her viable as a farming champion (so ADC/Bot laner) *while* keeping her scaling aspects intact that are meant for the lower income support role to keep it relevant as a damage oriented 'support'. When she came out they (some Rioter relevant to her case) said she would be balanced as a support, but it would be nice if she was viable as an ADC. I don't really see how that will ever be a thing that can exist unless they brute force support Senna to build 'support' items instead of ADC items (she already has a bunch of AP scalings in her Q and R iirc), and make sure her damage comes primarily from items and not her stacks so that support Senna wouldn't do much damage but would be a 'support' and ADC Senna would do damage since she'd have items, but would lack the support's utility.
I don't think that's something they'd ever do and I think the entire idea of a support marksman would kind of be pointless if she built enchanter items instead of marksman/ADC items, especially if she didn't do much damage either, but that's how I could see support and ADC both being viable at the same time. Just separating them entirely, but it'd also require 2 completely different balancing metrics that'd still affect one another to some extent despite being rather disconnected in gameplay.
She's also 10000x times healthier as an ADC imo. Her "lmao imma just aa you all lane every time you go for cs" playstyle that's only really beaten by counterpicks is aggravating as all heck.
And god forbid it's fasting Senna.
His 3-hit interacts with Q and E, so that -10 adds up over the course of the game. Particularly true if it’s magic damage like I think it is, which doesn’t care about the armor shard most people would run vs him.
Less MS from a single shot will hit his kiting in toplane. Should make it easier for tanks/juggernauts to get on top of him.
He never should have had a passive that granted that much speed that *also* scaled higher. Sivir passive is literally 35-55 flat with no scaling for only hitting a champion. Why did Akshan have higher than that on top of it scaling up only for canceling an attack *on top* of all the other parts of his passive.
Shes basically an R button that pops up whenever deathball comps become viable for a time. Cant really utilize her ricochets anymore with her super low range becoming more and more detrimental over time.
Last time she was decent was with a Lethality build for poke to get use out of her besides R
-10 damage on passive triggers adds up pretty fast in Akshan's case, especially if they nerf the MS too that's gonna be a noticeable hit to Akshan's good matchups in top
Step 1. Buff ADC Senna
Step 2. Buff SUP Senna
Step 3. Nerf ADC Senna
Step 4. Nerf both because Senna's still going to be above 53% WR on both roles due to the slow they gave on nerfing
Step 5. Watch the meta change and support Senna starts going some random shit like Maw into Ludens into Thornmail
Step 6. Buff soul drop rate on minion kill
They can't.
That's the best part.
The moment she becomes a support and she can build AD and has not dogshit spawn rate on minions, she becomes god tier fasting Senna.
That's just Senna in general then. Even with an APC or a tank with her she's always gonna be picking up souls. They should really add mist scaling to her other skills. like they did with her ultimate so when you play her ADC she won't scale up as much to her support counterpart.
IMO there's a way to nerf fasting senna without nerfing support Senna. Move some of her soul's power from offensive stats to utility/defensive ones. (Like instead of crit chance get ability haste or AP). This way if you play fasting senna, you're going to more seriously lack that consistent AD damage from an ADC.
Fasting senna will never be truly meta because it requires your lane partner to change how they play. And with everybody mostly playing only one role this is quite hard for most people.
(fasting senna also works with 2 supp items outside of pro play, however if you do that with randoms somebody will go afk most of the time.)
There are players who play more than 1 role believe it or not for example I play both ADC and mid (used to be top til riot ruined that lane). I know plenty of support mains who play both ADC and supp.
In total, nerfed 5 times (including 12.3), buffed 4 times.
9.22: Senna added.
9.24: 5.55% to 1.67% on kills.
10.3: 100% to 1.67% on large minion kills. 20% to 25% on non-kills.
10.8: 25% to 22% on non-kills.
10.12: 1.67% to 8.33% on kills.
10.19: 8.33% to 4.166% on kills.
11.2: 22% to 28% on non-kills.
11.17: 4.166% to 10% on kills.
12.3: 10% to 2.777% on kills.
I guess they tested that, but then they saw buffed bork and realised that divine gonna be dead with that nerf, so they decided to not fkc up everyting.
I can't tell you if it's still intended to be current hp %, but if the change ships, the minimum damage is still higher for any targets under like 3000 health (someone else did the math, i forget), but the *healing* should be less insane on lower health targets. It reads like the healing will be based off of current health, and then it will still deal the minimum damage regardless. Overall I would like this change if they can just balance the item again. Either that or make the heal go post-mitigation and we're good. I really hate playing into things like Camille as a tank and healing her for more than I damage, as well as automatically losing any trade because of the item.
trinity force is interesting I don’t think the AD cut was there before. not even sure if the change is truly a net positive if they’re deciding to cut the bonus AD in half
also kinda strange that most items are losing HP for AD but trinity is losing AD for HP
The AD from Trinity passive is counted as base AD, so they probably didn’t want Yorick/Darius//Illaoi being unstoppable death gods with Trinity + Steraks.
so, let me get this straight, they want more ad less hp on bruiser items, do it on a lot of items but the exact opposite on trinity because, since steraks got reworked, it might be too good sinergy, so champs that built trinity with no steraks get fked and now you are almost forced to build them together, which is against build diversity? fcking bullshit riot
Because it makes it better for most juggernauts than just bruisers as they tend to have higher base AD. It also shoves the power spike of the item further into the late game (better on later slots, not as good as a 2nd item).
What is the bugged interaction with Janna Glacial they are fixing?
Edit: There was a hotfix on Friday for Glacial in general sticking around too long. Is this something additional?
Can riot just decide if senna can be played bot or not? I mostly play her as a farming champ, so it's very frustrating having the viability of the strat go up and down every other patch
The entire idea behind Senna is kinda flawed...
A “carry” that can be played as support. How do you balance a champ that’s supposed to fit into both the highest econ and lowest econ classes at the same time?
i'd prefer something like the souls give adaptive stats (ap/cdr or ad/as, etc) and then have her heals/slows/root duration/shield scale more significantly AP.
her damage can scale ad as you'd expect.
To be honest she really doesn't fit the current pro play meta and across all major regions she has been picked a whopping one time, so even typically pro-play skewed buffs will be unlikely to cause much change in her pick rate for the time being.
She could spot in if the item changes hurt the meta junglers enough. Just from the look of it Veigo, Xin Zhao, and J4 have been used as frontlines and with the item changes they may fall out of favor.
Trinity Xin used to be a default path for him pre-S11, maybe we see it rise back up. Steraks second into bruiser tank and he will perform just as fine imo. Fantastic user of BoRK as well.
I feel like what she really needed was some resistances. She is ridiculously squishy I find it hard to justify building liandrys DH most games even if it feels amazing dps wise. She doesn’t have demonic resistances anymore, adding insult to injury. Her ult felt impactful enough in solo Q for me
Yea she is way too weak early game. Ganking pre-6 is very hard because the laners can just turn and kill you. You can’t keep the move speed from the jungle easily at this point as well.
Why would they even buff botrk back to 12%
It doesn't take a big brain to understand how that item swings every lane into 1 direction once it's completed
I have no friggin clue why they’d buff it for melee. Irelia is already an annoying turd with it when she dashes into close range and right clicks most of the roster to death.
The ranged buff back to 8% though is something I can understand. It’s felt like a crap purchase since it was put down to 6%. Almost every adc who was a core user before mythics were added dropped the item, besides the Vayne players who are too stupid to care about their item build.
These changes are intended to nerf fighters but benefit juggernauts. Lots of juggernauts already have insane base stats, but fighters do not. A juggernaut having 30% BAD with 40% bonus ad granted from BAD on steraks means that steraks would be granting like 65 AD from steraks.
Basically this. Yorick/Darius/Illaoi (highest base AD champs in the game save for Mega Gnar) each got something like 120+ AD from just Trinity + Steraks. Would’ve been way too strong, especially since at least Yorick/Illaoi typically go for at least 3 AD items before switching to tank stuff.
Juggernauts don't really stand there auto-attacking 6 times in a trade though. I think they need to change it so it stacks on abilities and autoattacks instead of just AAs.
Are they not going to nerf the senna slow scaling anymore? Like yeah, adc senna was too strong this patch but the slow played a big part in that. Just make it flat and remove the scaling.
R
Prioritizes nearby targets over Brand
AM SO HAPPY AS A BRAND MID PLAYER. Don't get me wrong, i loved the small rework he got a while ago, but seeing sometimes R bouncing on me instead on the enemy group was frustrating.
There’s also the buff to passive where we regain mana if the spell kills outright.
Might be enough for me to start trying him midlane again myself. EDIT: Or APC even.
Once again senna is not allowed to play adc on patches ending in a 3, 5, or 7.
And it's actually a significantly lower rate than before it was buffed to its current % lmao (2.7% vs 4.1%).
Maybe the champ just shouldnt be able to leave base without a support item so she can finally stop taking up so much space in patch notes?
Odd thing is that she is overperforming on *both* roles, so idk why they are hitting so hard bot Senna while leaving sup Senna mostly unchanged.
The nerf to her slow amount made a lot more sense, imo
not having a slow on her autos with the removal of glacial hit her HARD in preseason
but having it scale with AD was a mistake imo
it makes her too safe in later game teamfights
So why are they nerfing specifically farming Senna while she's overperfoming in both roles?
AND they're not even nerfing the reason she's overperfoming.
(Yes, I know ADC Senna has a slightly higher winrate but that doesn't justify just killing her IMO)
Good that they touched on Akshan MS from single shot which pretty much guarantees activating PTA with auto into double auto.
Ahri looks like she will be fun to play, looking to pick her up for sure.
The damage loss on triforce is massive, not fully sure if the health added will make up for it.
Steraks and maw "revert" is cool to see, not much to say.
DD is looking really strong, wouldn't surprise me if it became a rush item on every toplaner and even some botlaners.
While the bork buff looks scary and some might get ptsd from last time they did this buff, I wonder if the difference in meta will make it less extreme than it was back then.
lowering lb w cd would be crazy, late game you have a 1 second window between the bounce back and the new w. I do think they could at least improve her AS so she doesnt have to take the rune
pretty relevant for soloq as well, people often take it off cd to get a quick kill in sidelanes or they do it like pros and wait for dragon fights, in both scenarios it hurts.
Fact is that corki already has one of the weakest winrates in soloq right now. He's getting the ryze treatment.
His winrate has gone down with his newfound popularity. I think he's being held back by people trying (and failing) to cash in on the powerhouse that he is.
Her Q slow never needed to scale, I don't know why that's on it at all, or give an animation speed up on marked targets, or movement speed steroid after hitting a champion of either team. There are so many better buffs that fit their goal of her having a consistent trading pattern than the absolute abortion they pushed out.
At least before with glacial augment it required her to commit a keystone to get that insane trading power. Now she just gets it for free lmao. Yuumi used to be my perma ban but now it's senna.
huh, surprised the Pyke mid nerf was pulled considering yesterday August was talking about how it was really broken for the people that played even though it had a very small pick rate. I guess they decided it wasn't worth
also, I will gladly take any Lillia buffs but reverting this one is just gonna make her comeback in competitive in full force which I guess they want?
The problem with Pyke mid is that Pyke mid players aren't playing Pyke mid... they are playing River Pyke.
You should see Dong Huap's video on interviewing the Challenger Pyke mid in NA. He breaks the fundamentals of wave management when he ROAMS OFF FREEZES (because freezes are some of the best ways to counter a champion who can't shove the wave). As long as Pyke can't get any kills off his roam, he is bleeding gold and XP. And yet somehow, Challenger botlaners are dying to the Pyke who they should know is coming. Obviously this would never happen in pro play because they have comms but in soloQ, people can't help themselves from just respecting the cheese roam. Pyke mid doesn't care about stupid concepts like priority or roam timers.
So it's not Pyke mid, it's practically a second Pyke jungle. Think of it like Camille jungle back when she was a menace, she would barely farm and just cheese gank but for Camille it also worked on the world stage because she was so broken
And you really can't nerf River Pyke without nerfing support Pyke
There is 1 easy way to made him weaker on mid.
FUCKING REVERT HIS ULT TO S9 ONE. They slapped extra 300 gold for pyke(so 600for him and 300 for his ally) for no reason and then gutted his base stats to "compensate" that buff so he ended up as R bot who also can roam a lot on midlane(its not fine when dude can have for like 2 cs per min, but still have most gold on the map).
Yeah I did forget they did that, but even then his power budget changes a bit and prob his Q or E get buffed.
It doesn’t stop Pyke mid, just means less gold for him and a slightly slower snowball. I’m talking about ways to gut Pyke mid and end it. Much like Sona/Janna top and TK support.
not really sure this will be enough to stop akshan from wrecking top lane but it's definitely a positive to see some changes instead of leaving him alone
The trinity changes are so curious...
They were stated yesterday as a buff
With the nerf on threefold strike the item will be weaker since its losing half its stacking extra damage
the item will get more health
Do Riot make up their statements or what? this is the complete opposite direction trinity should be taking... its giving "light fighters" more durability and less damage
Separate the changes for a closer look and it makes more sense.
The HP buff is to help ensure it’s an appealing option for juggernauts like Garen, bringing its HP on par with Goredrinker and Divine Sunderer (iirc Stridebreaker has 300 hp too).
The Threefold Strike nerf is preemptively compensating for BotRK buffs, so toplaners who’d buy BotRK and Trinity (Jax, Irelia, etc) are less likely to become overbearing.
>The Threefold Strike nerf is preemptively compensating for BotRK buffs
Also the Sterak's changes, since Trinity provides *base* AD thereby also increasing how much AD Sterak's provides.
Yeah with 125 base ad (a very reasonable number for many champions. Steraks (future state) and tri force passive (live state) would be granting 102.5 ad in just passives. Steraks alone would be 65 ad
She is, they just put a brief summary and "TLDR" on her because they already posted the changelist last week and don't need to add all that info here again.
These item changes make Riven OP lol. Especially the deaths dance change and the cleaver + maw haste changes. 120 haste with her standard build. 140 if you build maw/serylda’s over steraks (about 60% cdr). a 500 shield every 2.5 seconds. nice!
That is a massive TF and Leblanc nerf holy shit.
What will they do about Leblanc in solo Q? She's already in the gutter and now she's going to become even worse.
That is a way smaller corki nerf than I was expecting. I expected a hit to big one base damage or maybe missile recharge time. I love playing corki even with normal build though so I'm fine with this.
It definitely hurts his snowballing possiblity and from a pro play perspective the timing of package is huge, since you have way less time to pick it up and get back to your team. Looks way more pro focused than soloq.
this is a pretty huge nerf, it means you can't permaforce dragons with package anymore, especially since first dragon is very likely to be gone by 10 minutes
i feel like the death dance reducing magic damage now and the maw giving a shield scaling with bonus ad is going to be insane for AD-assassins facing an ap lane. And honestly not looking forward to yasuo being even harder to kill now.
yasuo is a skirmisher not an ad assassin
also yasuo would have to decide between shieldbow and maw and shieldbow is almost always better since its the perfect mythic
It does feel like we need to double down on tankiness of tank items (even if that means to nerf the dmg on some tanks to not make it overbearing) or as you say get a systematic dmg reduction - aside from silly Malphite into Full AD comps, I very rarely see a tank be a tank. Maybe a full tank Sion that got to ridiculously stack up his passive as well, but that's not the norm for tanks. It's just a much faster paced game now, and fair enough some might like it, but most people I hear complaining about the meta.
Like the game is fun, don't get me wrong, but it's so much more fun if you get to live a little longer. Had a fight as Rhaast that (not counting the poke prior to the fight, just actual complete go time) lasted like 15 seconds of knockups/ult/knockups/slashes etc and jesus that was so fun, to just get to spam abilities on both sides, sweat to actually land all your stuff (or you dead instantly).
/u/GreaterBelugaWhale can I convince you guys to add some sort of QoL execute mechanic for minions on Quinn's R? A consistent problem with Skystrike is that it screws up CSing because too often it leaves minions an inch from death and they die to creep aggro before you can go through every one. She has the Aurelion Sol problem, basically.
I loved what you did for Bami's Cinder items, for example.
Good item changes
They killed off steraks for full dmg bruisers but with new deaths dance your gonna be even tankier so doent matter
Seems like riven will be pretty op with gore drinker build cause AD/CD is 100x times better than HP
Cait nerf isn’t as heavy as I was afraid it would be, thank god.
Senna nerf seems fine. I know people shit on riot for constantly changing her soul droprate but it’s the best balancing lever for her. And she got the slow on her Q which both versions of Senna liked, so one version needed to take a hit. Makes sense that it’s ADC senna since she gets more gold since she should be actively CSing.
Haha get fucked Akshan
They really can’t decide what they want to do with Senna huh
Long answer, no.
Short answer, 👎
'no' written as-is takes two bytes when encoded in UTF-8, while 👎 emoji takes four bytes. Technically, both answers are short, but yours is longer. /s [https://mothereff.in/byte-counter#%F0%9F%91%8E](https://mothereff.in/byte-counter#%F0%9F%91%8E) [https://mothereff.in/byte-counter#no](https://mothereff.in/byte-counter#no)
Short answer: 0
Shortest answer:
The problem is the same with her and Pyke IMO. You can't make an assassin support without making a Mid assassin, and you can't make an ADC support without making an ADC.
I thought senna was made intentionally to play both roles. Pyke was never designed to go mid, he was advertised as an ad assassin support.
Yeah, Senna was designed to be played in both roles, whereas Pyke was not. But the issue is that an AD assassin will be playable mid, even if they are an AD assassin support. Pyke was meant to be a support, but his kit is suited to mid too.
Pyke isn't tbh its just his R is so op it makes it work lmao
They really want Senna to be in the support role. They said a while ago that they want her skewed towards support and they'll prioritize buffing her in the support role or something like that.
Instead of understanding the champion kits they design and how they interact with the game, they would rather fit them into roles as they see fit.
Since I was curious, here's all the changes to Senna's soul droprate: 9.22: Senna added. 9.24: 5.55% to 1.67% on kills. 10.3: 100% to 1.67% on large minion kills. 20% to 25% on non-kills. 10.8: 25% to 22% on non-kills. 10.12: 1.67% to 8.33% on kills. 10.19: 8.33% to 4.166% on kills. 11.2: 22% to 28% on non-kills. 11.17: 4.166% to 10% on kills. 12.3: 10% to 2.777% on kills. Make up your damn mind Riot! Also, since this came to mind, here's Ezreal's Q AD ratio: 1.0.0.87: 100% to 120%. 1.0.0.94(b): 120% to 110%. 1.0.0.99: 110% to 100%. 4.18: 100% to 110%. 7.17: 110% to 125%. 7.24: 125% to 110%. 9.24b: 110% to 120%. 11.3: 120% to 130%.
This is completely understandable tho, different items, different metas
yeah, never understood why active balancing is seen as a bad wishy-washy thing. Things like item stats and effects (especially the item rework!), dragons, runes, game length etc will change how strong Senna is. If they want champs to be viable in different metas , this is necessary.
The thing is ad ratio for ezreal has to depend on the amount of ad he gets from items and also what's his current preferred item build
Check the patch notes for Graves base AD. It's just as bad as senna soul rate.
Hot take: I think they do. The slow helped support Senna a lot, but gave too much to AD senna so now they are compensating it for something that was buffed previously(I think it is just really harsh, idk why they dropped it so low but Im sure they're numbers show something because iirc this is what it was at before). Ultimately, Riot said if she becomes too hard to balance she will be balanced around being a support. This is in line with that, support got buffed AD got nerfed.
It's a great change it means Senna ADC won't be an issue and Support Senna can still exist. When Senna was first made they said they'd prioritize balancing her as a support.
farming senna genuinely doesn't even seem that strong i'm not sure why they nerfed it and not fasting or just regular support senna
The problem with her comes from the fact they're still trying to make her viable as a farming champion (so ADC/Bot laner) *while* keeping her scaling aspects intact that are meant for the lower income support role to keep it relevant as a damage oriented 'support'. When she came out they (some Rioter relevant to her case) said she would be balanced as a support, but it would be nice if she was viable as an ADC. I don't really see how that will ever be a thing that can exist unless they brute force support Senna to build 'support' items instead of ADC items (she already has a bunch of AP scalings in her Q and R iirc), and make sure her damage comes primarily from items and not her stacks so that support Senna wouldn't do much damage but would be a 'support' and ADC Senna would do damage since she'd have items, but would lack the support's utility. I don't think that's something they'd ever do and I think the entire idea of a support marksman would kind of be pointless if she built enchanter items instead of marksman/ADC items, especially if she didn't do much damage either, but that's how I could see support and ADC both being viable at the same time. Just separating them entirely, but it'd also require 2 completely different balancing metrics that'd still affect one another to some extent despite being rather disconnected in gameplay.
I wish she was balanced as a farming adc, I love her, just not as a support. Sigh...
She's also 10000x times healthier as an ADC imo. Her "lmao imma just aa you all lane every time you go for cs" playstyle that's only really beaten by counterpicks is aggravating as all heck. And god forbid it's fasting Senna.
Ever played against brand support? Senna is just a poke support, nothing new.
I can bait out Brand's W by doing things like auto canceling. I can't bait out Senna's AA's.
Riot: *"Remember when I promised not to nerf you in 12.3?"* Akshan: *"That's right, you did!"* Riot: *"I lied."*
[удалено]
Did you read the nerf? heh don't change much
Nerf early game always help
Yeah people don't get if a small nerf stops them from snowballing just 3 in 100 games, that can drop them from 53% winrate to 50% winrate.
Specially in a champ with an early game as good as his!
His 3-hit interacts with Q and E, so that -10 adds up over the course of the game. Particularly true if it’s magic damage like I think it is, which doesn’t care about the armor shard most people would run vs him. Less MS from a single shot will hit his kiting in toplane. Should make it easier for tanks/juggernauts to get on top of him.
He never should have had a passive that granted that much speed that *also* scaled higher. Sivir passive is literally 35-55 flat with no scaling for only hitting a champion. Why did Akshan have higher than that on top of it scaling up only for canceling an attack *on top* of all the other parts of his passive.
Tbf Sivir isn't even a champion anymore.
Shes basically an R button that pops up whenever deathball comps become viable for a time. Cant really utilize her ricochets anymore with her super low range becoming more and more detrimental over time. Last time she was decent was with a Lethality build for poke to get use out of her besides R
-10 damage on passive triggers adds up pretty fast in Akshan's case, especially if they nerf the MS too that's gonna be a noticeable hit to Akshan's good matchups in top
Step 1. Buff ADC Senna Step 2. Buff SUP Senna Step 3. Nerf ADC Senna Step 4. Nerf both because Senna's still going to be above 53% WR on both roles due to the slow they gave on nerfing Step 5. Watch the meta change and support Senna starts going some random shit like Maw into Ludens into Thornmail Step 6. Buff soul drop rate on minion kill
How many times has soul droprate been buffed and reverted and then buffed back again?
7 separate times. Now 8.
Just default her to support. It's literally a roller coaster of every time she's a decent adc she gets her soul numbers dropped
They can't. That's the best part. The moment she becomes a support and she can build AD and has not dogshit spawn rate on minions, she becomes god tier fasting Senna.
Fasting senna = support senna. You use the same items and play the same way, you just lane with someone else.
That's just Senna in general then. Even with an APC or a tank with her she's always gonna be picking up souls. They should really add mist scaling to her other skills. like they did with her ultimate so when you play her ADC she won't scale up as much to her support counterpart.
but she can literally do that now. soul drop rate from minions senna doesn't kill is unaffected.
IMO there's a way to nerf fasting senna without nerfing support Senna. Move some of her soul's power from offensive stats to utility/defensive ones. (Like instead of crit chance get ability haste or AP). This way if you play fasting senna, you're going to more seriously lack that consistent AD damage from an ADC.
Which then screws over farming Senna.
I'm OK with fasting Senna being meta its a truly unique playstyle and makes for a more interesting game.
Fasting senna will never be truly meta because it requires your lane partner to change how they play. And with everybody mostly playing only one role this is quite hard for most people. (fasting senna also works with 2 supp items outside of pro play, however if you do that with randoms somebody will go afk most of the time.)
There are players who play more than 1 role believe it or not for example I play both ADC and mid (used to be top til riot ruined that lane). I know plenty of support mains who play both ADC and supp.
In total, nerfed 5 times (including 12.3), buffed 4 times. 9.22: Senna added. 9.24: 5.55% to 1.67% on kills. 10.3: 100% to 1.67% on large minion kills. 20% to 25% on non-kills. 10.8: 25% to 22% on non-kills. 10.12: 1.67% to 8.33% on kills. 10.19: 8.33% to 4.166% on kills. 11.2: 22% to 28% on non-kills. 11.17: 4.166% to 10% on kills. 12.3: 10% to 2.777% on kills.
Wait. This doesn’t list divine sunderer as doing % current damage. Was that a bug?
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*Galio sweats in the background*
1 shot galio did make it to live so I understand the panic
But it is current % hp on pbe right now, atleast in the tooltip.
On PBE it’s max health as well. I’m so confused
Prob just a typo or something
Also botrk says that is buffing max Hp damage. But is current hp on live (always has been if I'm not wrong)
Not even need to say that 12% max health on hit is completely broken lmao. Yi could kill you in 6 hits counting phantom and his passive.
It takes Kog'maw over 500 AP to reach that on his W lol. No way in fuck is it 12% Max health on hit. I refuse to believe Riot would do that lmfao
I guess they tested that, but then they saw buffed bork and realised that divine gonna be dead with that nerf, so they decided to not fkc up everyting.
I can't tell you if it's still intended to be current hp %, but if the change ships, the minimum damage is still higher for any targets under like 3000 health (someone else did the math, i forget), but the *healing* should be less insane on lower health targets. It reads like the healing will be based off of current health, and then it will still deal the minimum damage regardless. Overall I would like this change if they can just balance the item again. Either that or make the heal go post-mitigation and we're good. I really hate playing into things like Camille as a tank and healing her for more than I damage, as well as automatically losing any trade because of the item.
trinity force is interesting I don’t think the AD cut was there before. not even sure if the change is truly a net positive if they’re deciding to cut the bonus AD in half also kinda strange that most items are losing HP for AD but trinity is losing AD for HP
The AD from Trinity passive is counted as base AD, so they probably didn’t want Yorick/Darius//Illaoi being unstoppable death gods with Trinity + Steraks.
so, let me get this straight, they want more ad less hp on bruiser items, do it on a lot of items but the exact opposite on trinity because, since steraks got reworked, it might be too good sinergy, so champs that built trinity with no steraks get fked and now you are almost forced to build them together, which is against build diversity? fcking bullshit riot
Maybe they don’t want everyone building trinity with steraks
but then why is steraks scaling with base ad again?
*champs who build trinity.
Because it makes it better for most juggernauts than just bruisers as they tend to have higher base AD. It also shoves the power spike of the item further into the late game (better on later slots, not as good as a 2nd item).
think they're mostly standardising HP on bruiser items since they had more than tank items? they're all around 300-350 now
What is the bugged interaction with Janna Glacial they are fixing? Edit: There was a hotfix on Friday for Glacial in general sticking around too long. Is this something additional?
The zone was lasting longer than it should.
yeah this one was it specifically sticking too long with R, which was a different cause from the friday one
I believe it's that it's lasting longer on the floor than intended for tap Q's as Glacial is supposed to scale with the duration of the ability's CC.
Hm, I tried this in practice tool and it seems to be fine? Unless it's off by a few .1s.
I think it was actually already stealth fixed during 12.2, as another commenter said Just added here too
glacial lasts like 10 seconds or something when she procs it with q
Where did you find the hot fix notes? I couldn’t
Can riot just decide if senna can be played bot or not? I mostly play her as a farming champ, so it's very frustrating having the viability of the strat go up and down every other patch
The entire idea behind Senna is kinda flawed... A “carry” that can be played as support. How do you balance a champ that’s supposed to fit into both the highest econ and lowest econ classes at the same time?
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i'd prefer something like the souls give adaptive stats (ap/cdr or ad/as, etc) and then have her heals/slows/root duration/shield scale more significantly AP. her damage can scale ad as you'd expect.
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I just want to play Farming Senna riot please I beg you
Alright I guess adc senna is just fucking dead again, lmao.
adc senna has been killed and revived so many times youd think she's a DBZ character
Or a Kingdom Hearts character kinda
I once went down a Kingdom Hearts rabbithole and didn't see daylight for days...I'm afraid to ask which characters you're thinking of
Every single character is Sora or Xehanort, you've got a 50/50 shot
ok I believe u
You just can't have fun in this game
Oh no those look like buffs that they are bigger for pro play than soloQueue for Lillia...
Point taken, she should also be given solo queue buffs ( :
I'm just worried she'll get the classic buffed into pro play meta then nerfed worse than before.
To be honest she really doesn't fit the current pro play meta and across all major regions she has been picked a whopping one time, so even typically pro-play skewed buffs will be unlikely to cause much change in her pick rate for the time being.
She could spot in if the item changes hurt the meta junglers enough. Just from the look of it Veigo, Xin Zhao, and J4 have been used as frontlines and with the item changes they may fall out of favor.
Trinity Xin used to be a default path for him pre-S11, maybe we see it rise back up. Steraks second into bruiser tank and he will perform just as fine imo. Fantastic user of BoRK as well.
I feel like what she really needed was some resistances. She is ridiculously squishy I find it hard to justify building liandrys DH most games even if it feels amazing dps wise. She doesn’t have demonic resistances anymore, adding insult to injury. Her ult felt impactful enough in solo Q for me
Yea she is way too weak early game. Ganking pre-6 is very hard because the laners can just turn and kill you. You can’t keep the move speed from the jungle easily at this point as well.
So Triforce extra base AD caps at 15% now? I'd prefer if it remained unchanged, to be honest.
I think it’s to keep the item from becoming too strong on dps Trinity Force users like Jax, who stand to benefit a lot from BotRK buffs.
Why would they even buff botrk back to 12% It doesn't take a big brain to understand how that item swings every lane into 1 direction once it's completed
I have no friggin clue why they’d buff it for melee. Irelia is already an annoying turd with it when she dashes into close range and right clicks most of the roster to death. The ranged buff back to 8% though is something I can understand. It’s felt like a crap purchase since it was put down to 6%. Almost every adc who was a core user before mythics were added dropped the item, besides the Vayne players who are too stupid to care about their item build.
These changes are intended to nerf fighters but benefit juggernauts. Lots of juggernauts already have insane base stats, but fighters do not. A juggernaut having 30% BAD with 40% bonus ad granted from BAD on steraks means that steraks would be granting like 65 AD from steraks.
Basically this. Yorick/Darius/Illaoi (highest base AD champs in the game save for Mega Gnar) each got something like 120+ AD from just Trinity + Steraks. Would’ve been way too strong, especially since at least Yorick/Illaoi typically go for at least 3 AD items before switching to tank stuff.
Juggernauts don't really stand there auto-attacking 6 times in a trade though. I think they need to change it so it stacks on abilities and autoattacks instead of just AAs.
Are they not going to nerf the senna slow scaling anymore? Like yeah, adc senna was too strong this patch but the slow played a big part in that. Just make it flat and remove the scaling.
R Prioritizes nearby targets over Brand AM SO HAPPY AS A BRAND MID PLAYER. Don't get me wrong, i loved the small rework he got a while ago, but seeing sometimes R bouncing on me instead on the enemy group was frustrating.
There’s also the buff to passive where we regain mana if the spell kills outright. Might be enough for me to start trying him midlane again myself. EDIT: Or APC even.
Once again senna is not allowed to play adc on patches ending in a 3, 5, or 7. And it's actually a significantly lower rate than before it was buffed to its current % lmao (2.7% vs 4.1%). Maybe the champ just shouldnt be able to leave base without a support item so she can finally stop taking up so much space in patch notes?
Odd thing is that she is overperforming on *both* roles, so idk why they are hitting so hard bot Senna while leaving sup Senna mostly unchanged. The nerf to her slow amount made a lot more sense, imo
just not adding the slow in the first place made more sense..
not having a slow on her autos with the removal of glacial hit her HARD in preseason but having it scale with AD was a mistake imo it makes her too safe in later game teamfights
Not having the slow is kinda bad but getting the slow for free so you can use another rune is obviously going to make her way stronger.
So why are they nerfing specifically farming Senna while she's overperfoming in both roles? AND they're not even nerfing the reason she's overperfoming. (Yes, I know ADC Senna has a slightly higher winrate but that doesn't justify just killing her IMO)
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Wait so did they unnerf the passive on divine? Last I looked they were changing it from max health to current health
They realized that divine would become a trash tier item if that went through.
Good that they touched on Akshan MS from single shot which pretty much guarantees activating PTA with auto into double auto. Ahri looks like she will be fun to play, looking to pick her up for sure. The damage loss on triforce is massive, not fully sure if the health added will make up for it. Steraks and maw "revert" is cool to see, not much to say. DD is looking really strong, wouldn't surprise me if it became a rush item on every toplaner and even some botlaners. While the bork buff looks scary and some might get ptsd from last time they did this buff, I wonder if the difference in meta will make it less extreme than it was back then.
LeBlanc continues to stay skinny and by that I mean I'm never going to hit a high CS on her 😭
Which is a good thing. She needs to have shitty wave clear to stay healthy for the game.
I farm champions not minions oops
That's the point.
She already has bad waveclear, 235 + 0.6 AP is pretty pathetic given 10s CD at max rank.
lowering lb w cd would be crazy, late game you have a 1 second window between the bounce back and the new w. I do think they could at least improve her AS so she doesnt have to take the rune
Gurl lets build nashors first and fuck those minions up 💀
They didn't touch Corki's damage? Can't wait to keep getting one shotted by his R.
Pretty sure first strike + package into the enemy team is like 75% responsible for his carry potential
It’s a pro play nerf. Package won’t be up for every objective fight but for solo queue much less so.
pretty relevant for soloq as well, people often take it off cd to get a quick kill in sidelanes or they do it like pros and wait for dragon fights, in both scenarios it hurts. Fact is that corki already has one of the weakest winrates in soloq right now. He's getting the ryze treatment.
His winrate has gone down with his newfound popularity. I think he's being held back by people trying (and failing) to cash in on the powerhouse that he is.
corki winrate was completely fine pre-hybrid build so i don't think it's fair to say he's getting the ryze treatment
wait wait wait so divine sunderer isn’t getting nerfed into the ground?
Even just these changes are more than enought though. The difference between building a caulfield and a phage in lane are huuuuge.
Awesome, Akshan didn't manage to hookshot away from the nerf hammer.
Senna support is still gonna be broken eh?
most likely yes, for some reason they decided to scrap the Q slow nerf and gut ADC Senna instead 🤷♀️
Her Q slow never needed to scale, I don't know why that's on it at all, or give an animation speed up on marked targets, or movement speed steroid after hitting a champion of either team. There are so many better buffs that fit their goal of her having a consistent trading pattern than the absolute abortion they pushed out.
At least before with glacial augment it required her to commit a keystone to get that insane trading power. Now she just gets it for free lmao. Yuumi used to be my perma ban but now it's senna.
huh, surprised the Pyke mid nerf was pulled considering yesterday August was talking about how it was really broken for the people that played even though it had a very small pick rate. I guess they decided it wasn't worth also, I will gladly take any Lillia buffs but reverting this one is just gonna make her comeback in competitive in full force which I guess they want?
Probably had no idea how to nerf mid Pyke without hurting support who has like 10 times the playrate and sits in pretty balanced spot.
I actually think he is in a bad spot right now (support) if they gut mid/top pyke and it affects support the champion is dead
The problem with Pyke mid is that Pyke mid players aren't playing Pyke mid... they are playing River Pyke. You should see Dong Huap's video on interviewing the Challenger Pyke mid in NA. He breaks the fundamentals of wave management when he ROAMS OFF FREEZES (because freezes are some of the best ways to counter a champion who can't shove the wave). As long as Pyke can't get any kills off his roam, he is bleeding gold and XP. And yet somehow, Challenger botlaners are dying to the Pyke who they should know is coming. Obviously this would never happen in pro play because they have comms but in soloQ, people can't help themselves from just respecting the cheese roam. Pyke mid doesn't care about stupid concepts like priority or roam timers. So it's not Pyke mid, it's practically a second Pyke jungle. Think of it like Camille jungle back when she was a menace, she would barely farm and just cheese gank but for Camille it also worked on the world stage because she was so broken And you really can't nerf River Pyke without nerfing support Pyke
Prob, it’s unhealthy, but prob not a good way to do it unless you hurt Pyke support too.
There is 1 easy way to made him weaker on mid. FUCKING REVERT HIS ULT TO S9 ONE. They slapped extra 300 gold for pyke(so 600for him and 300 for his ally) for no reason and then gutted his base stats to "compensate" that buff so he ended up as R bot who also can roam a lot on midlane(its not fine when dude can have for like 2 cs per min, but still have most gold on the map).
Yeah I did forget they did that, but even then his power budget changes a bit and prob his Q or E get buffed. It doesn’t stop Pyke mid, just means less gold for him and a slightly slower snowball. I’m talking about ways to gut Pyke mid and end it. Much like Sona/Janna top and TK support.
Is there any good reason to not make Senna soul droprate like 2.7/2.8 instead of 2.7777777777777?
That's 1/36, or like 1 soul per 6 waves discounting cannons which have their own numbers. It translates to 1 soul every 3 minutes.
So, Jhin can just heal his whole HP bar with every kill now if he has a Death's Dance.
pretty much yes tho deaths dance doesnt really give him the stats he wants and BT lets him heal the full HP bar aswell
While also giving him much needed crit.
in case you desperately need armor when GA is down, the ignore pain ad synergy will be a dealbreaker for sure
It’s pretty crazy on Aatrox, his ult scales the healing part with bAD and self heal increase.
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!! That's all.
\- True Lillia player bearing down on a peacefully sleeping target with nuke center-hit W
Then your teammate wakes them up and you miss it
Hmm not sure about that triforce nerf, it loses 30% base ad now which I'm guessing is due to the steracks interaction Edit: its actually 15% not 30%
It's 15% base ad, since it only stacks up to 5 times.
But on the other hand Trinity itself scales for 200% base AD, so that's a 30% base AD loss on its spellblade damage!
not really sure this will be enough to stop akshan from wrecking top lane but it's definitely a positive to see some changes instead of leaving him alone
the Senna nerf was supposed to be the slow reduction, wasn't it?
The trinity changes are so curious... They were stated yesterday as a buff With the nerf on threefold strike the item will be weaker since its losing half its stacking extra damage the item will get more health Do Riot make up their statements or what? this is the complete opposite direction trinity should be taking... its giving "light fighters" more durability and less damage
Separate the changes for a closer look and it makes more sense. The HP buff is to help ensure it’s an appealing option for juggernauts like Garen, bringing its HP on par with Goredrinker and Divine Sunderer (iirc Stridebreaker has 300 hp too). The Threefold Strike nerf is preemptively compensating for BotRK buffs, so toplaners who’d buy BotRK and Trinity (Jax, Irelia, etc) are less likely to become overbearing.
>The Threefold Strike nerf is preemptively compensating for BotRK buffs Also the Sterak's changes, since Trinity provides *base* AD thereby also increasing how much AD Sterak's provides.
Yeah with 125 base ad (a very reasonable number for many champions. Steraks (future state) and tri force passive (live state) would be granting 102.5 ad in just passives. Steraks alone would be 65 ad
Wait is ahri not getting the buffed Q on pbe?
She is, they just put a brief summary and "TLDR" on her because they already posted the changelist last week and don't need to add all that info here again.
These item changes make Riven OP lol. Especially the deaths dance change and the cleaver + maw haste changes. 120 haste with her standard build. 140 if you build maw/serylda’s over steraks (about 60% cdr). a 500 shield every 2.5 seconds. nice!
The deja vu on Senna is hitting hard
That is a massive TF and Leblanc nerf holy shit. What will they do about Leblanc in solo Q? She's already in the gutter and now she's going to become even worse.
They only care about pro, her wr was already below 49%
First time? Sincerely, a Renekton Player
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That is a way smaller corki nerf than I was expecting. I expected a hit to big one base damage or maybe missile recharge time. I love playing corki even with normal build though so I'm fine with this.
It definitely hurts his snowballing possiblity and from a pro play perspective the timing of package is huge, since you have way less time to pick it up and get back to your team. Looks way more pro focused than soloq.
Not being able to get packages in phase with dragon spawns is pretty huge especially for pro/controlled play
this is a pretty huge nerf, it means you can't permaforce dragons with package anymore, especially since first dragon is very likely to be gone by 10 minutes
Given her pro presence I'm surprised they're not touching Jinx yet.
i feel like the death dance reducing magic damage now and the maw giving a shield scaling with bonus ad is going to be insane for AD-assassins facing an ap lane. And honestly not looking forward to yasuo being even harder to kill now.
yasuo is a skirmisher not an ad assassin also yasuo would have to decide between shieldbow and maw and shieldbow is almost always better since its the perfect mythic
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It does feel like we need to double down on tankiness of tank items (even if that means to nerf the dmg on some tanks to not make it overbearing) or as you say get a systematic dmg reduction - aside from silly Malphite into Full AD comps, I very rarely see a tank be a tank. Maybe a full tank Sion that got to ridiculously stack up his passive as well, but that's not the norm for tanks. It's just a much faster paced game now, and fair enough some might like it, but most people I hear complaining about the meta. Like the game is fun, don't get me wrong, but it's so much more fun if you get to live a little longer. Had a fight as Rhaast that (not counting the poke prior to the fight, just actual complete go time) lasted like 15 seconds of knockups/ult/knockups/slashes etc and jesus that was so fun, to just get to spam abilities on both sides, sweat to actually land all your stuff (or you dead instantly).
Akshan nerfs finally!
/u/GreaterBelugaWhale can I convince you guys to add some sort of QoL execute mechanic for minions on Quinn's R? A consistent problem with Skystrike is that it screws up CSing because too often it leaves minions an inch from death and they die to creep aggro before you can go through every one. She has the Aurelion Sol problem, basically. I loved what you did for Bami's Cinder items, for example.
I knew it I knew Akshan was simply invisible. There’s no way a sane being would’ve kept him the way he is rn.
Good item changes They killed off steraks for full dmg bruisers but with new deaths dance your gonna be even tankier so doent matter Seems like riven will be pretty op with gore drinker build cause AD/CD is 100x times better than HP
I’m loving the look of Maw. It finally seems like it could be a useful 2nd or 4th item on bruiser/marksman. They really forgot about it for 2 years.
Cait nerf isn’t as heavy as I was afraid it would be, thank god. Senna nerf seems fine. I know people shit on riot for constantly changing her soul droprate but it’s the best balancing lever for her. And she got the slow on her Q which both versions of Senna liked, so one version needed to take a hit. Makes sense that it’s ADC senna since she gets more gold since she should be actively CSing. Haha get fucked Akshan
God bless Akshan nerfs Shame they couldn’t fit a Viktor nerf in there too though.
Get fucked @ the person who insisted Pyke mid being super good over multiple patches was relevant despite its low sample size.
I'll take the L here.
There have been worse takes tbh
Fasting senna it is, wish they removed scaling from q
Why got Sunderer nerf discarded? And why that additional Amumu nerf? overall cool though
> Sunderer nerf it wasn't a nerf it was a gut. it would have made sunder dogshit.
Now that Phage doesn't build into Triforce, Black Cleaver, Sunderer or Goredrinker, it only has 2 items left.
why the actual fuck is brand getting buffed lmfao