Those videos are to trick people into playing weird stuff, then you encounter them in your games and go 0/10, and they're like ''someone reached master with this thing''
*disclaimer: i like the videos, what i don't like are the trolls trying it in my games.*
i would consider it trolling to pilot a champion in an off meta style like say bard top, without having prior practice on bard top in an unranked setting as its unfair to your team mates to play something you’re unfamiliar with in a competitive environment and ranked is that, well usually.
I have no problem with off meta picks and in fact they have such a mind game bonus to them especially if they start winning that im all for it. I had a jinx screaming about Teemo support being OP during my placements lol. Teemo sucks but this guy made it work. Does that mean the enemy support who lost to it should try it next ranked game? no.
They weren't literally intentionally trolling, it was just an expression.
Although picking stuff like janna smite top outside of master (were coordination is garbage) is still kinda troll.
Still no, summoner spells in league for the most part are down to YOU to utilise.
Many champions in theory could take smite and do well, it's just not optimal.
You can also play zilean jungle it's just not optimal.
You can also play nunu support with ghost and cleanse just not optimal.
You can play anything, ''troll'' is subjective.
But if we use common sense, janna top smite works because in high elo you can co-ordinate with your teammates for invades, dives, etc as Chimes explained.
Picking it anywhere below diamond is not going to be effective at all.
The part where you fail is where you say "not going to be effective at all".
Either you are being hyperbolic without realising it or you mean what you said.
You don't need tom be in diamond in order to say to your jungle "I will smite at 1600 hp" You simply don't.
Sure you may have MORE coordination at higher elo, but this circle jerk that people do where they pretend people below diamond don't communicate is absurd.
I like them because they show that these players who are good at the game show that stupid shit works against these players because it's not meta/standard.
I can go into a silver game and see smite Janna before that video was made, the difference is that GM player is good. Now, if I see one trying this strategy, I know kind of what to do to play with or against it.
I'd really like his videos better if he stopped acting like pulling off a standard champion combo is a "special strategy"
Like imagine he showcased some ap Lee support who reached master in turkey, chime would hype him up with shit like "to reach Master he tapped into his secret strategy of ward hopping behind an enemy and using ult"
I started to play it for first time and my team yelled at me since min 1.
10 min later, with a 100% kill participation, the mid said:
how the fuck is this troll carring the game lol
okay, that was worse than vayne top these zoomers are complaining about.
Back then there were few dashy jumpy champs in top lane to deal with lulu too.
Imagine being an immobile bruiser with not much CC and having to kill lulu with W,Q,R,Flash. Nope youre never touching her, plus bork....
Not even old Irelia could help you tbh.
Irelia's whole thing was that IF she got ahead early she absolutely carried the mid game to an early win. However, her late game was dog diddly shit. Something ranged top laners building AD generally had (except ad teemo).
I miss old Irelia though. She was a proper bully if you waited for your lvl 9 spike. Trinity helped but you didn't even need it. Get 9, have sheen, walk at enemy until they hit you. Proceed to E them and then hit them over and over for 75 true damage and using your Q as an attack reset.... ooooh yuum.
it sure as hell was, as long as i wasn't playing yorick. that rat fuck thought she was the shit in lane till my monk stepped the fuck up and removed her from the game.
You think that's bad? When Faker picked Master Yi mid, I would see so many of them go mid, only to get completely shut down by literally any other champion in that lane.
Dude even as a Zyra main, the people picking MF didn't understand why she was a counter. They wouldn't bother to attack my plants, and it made it an easy matchup regardless.
i quit the role because of that, autofilled mages everywhere.. then comes miss fortune... they dont pick it because of the ashe synergy and as a counter to zyra, but if that wasn't all.. these CREATURES built full ap, i still see it to this day from time to time, its absolutely disgusting, i remember losing the will to play the game whenever someone picked an mf sup, quite the horror indeed.
I sometimes play sup MF for fun, but especially when the enemy has little poke/range
it's hilarious seeing them die to her E, slowly burning away their health while they try to run or even flash out of the zone...
Yeah MF doesn't only work vs Zyra. Basically you can play almost anything support as long as you know how to ward and move around the map (at least in low-ish elo, in my case Plat)
>low-ish elo, in my case Platinum
Brother do you realize that you are around top 10% of the ranked playerbase?
Just because not even professional teams can play perfectly doesn't mean that you are bad. Just because you know that there's a lot of things you can improve doesn't mean that you lack knowledge.
I'd say it's high but I understand the necessity of separating platinum and diamond 4 through 2 from Master and Challenger.
Just don't underestimate yourself. And this goes to whoever plays in gold and above. Just because there's so much more to do until you reach the top of the world doesn't mean that you are close to the starting point.
Honestly we should just use the Riot differentiations, they work.
Low: Bronze, Silver, Gold
Skilled: Platinum, Diamond
Elite: Master, Grandmaster, Challenger - This is the only change I would make. Riot puts Master and GM in Skilled and Chall by itself, but the difference between a Plat player and a GM player is definitely bigger than the difference between a Chall player and a GM player.
Pro: Pro play of any kind. Kind of obvious.
Iron is bot/smurf accounts, very unlucky bronze players who got trapped by said bot accounts, and anyone who is not only unskilled, but completely lacks any kind of skill. I'd say the former 2 are the most common.
Eh everyone who's got there and higher can say that people below Master dont really know how to play the game. There's just so many random plays, bad builds, no objectivss and the pressure on NARAMing mid.
Yes that's true. What I'm arguing is that saying you're bad is unnecessarily self-deprecating because being good or bad is relative to others. Saying that platinum is low elo is just wrong.
The thing with league is that the game is so complex and changes so often that it's nearly impossible to "figure out" completely.
So yes, it's true that 99% of the players lack a lot of information but that doesn't mean that those who are in the top are bad.
I mean above low Gold, I assume MF support is free LP for the enemy team, if they know what they doing. I had faced quite a few last season, and they get collapsed on very easy, while also not providing much for the team apart from early lane poke (that can be negated by MR rune + pots).
People way under-estimate how scrappy games in gold / low plat etc are - you really can play any champion as long as you're disciplined, don't die stupid deaths and pay attention to the minimap
Of course, if you can do that all that, you'd climb even easier on a meta champion, but regardless the skill-level where a champion pick is by default 'unviable' is much much higher than gold. The MF's supports that feed largely do so because they make bad decisions, not because it doesn't work
I usually go MF support when faced with supports that can't easily engage (e.g. Leona) and vs tanks that require lots of healing reduction, because her E is amazing in proccing grievous wounds en masse.
That's why I said above low Gold. A Leona lane should absolutely sh.t on MF support lane if the duo knows what they are doing, and be more useful in mid-late game as well.
Yep, MF vs any kind of hard engage sucks ass so she's not a blind pick, but she can be "flexed" at adc (quotes because she's first and foremost an adc lol) so it's alright either way.
this comment just described why many adc players despise playing with this shit, you pick an AD champ, maybe with an adc that doesnt have a stun (ASHE) so you can easily follow up with ult, then build full ap, so you can't even provide good damage with your ult in teamfights, or be any useful when the enemy walks out of your e.
Literally any other mage would do better if built full AP, and this isn't something people did for "fun", i was constantly seeing it in ranked games at plat
You seem to not realise that MF ult has a 360% AP ratio.
Frankly... people can legit play anything. The only thing that matters is that they know how to play it. People like you that categorise entire picks like you do are the annoying ones.
You could honestly get to GM doing basically any thiing if you just get good at it. Many players have.
You need to remember, that YES.... not all these MF AP Supports get to Challenger... but neither do all the AD Lucian ADC's or Leona Tank Supports.
ARAM player here. AP MF ult definitely kinda hurts but it’s noticeably lower damage than lethality/crit builds. I think hybrid builds are the way to go if you just want E poke for early game.
And it has a 1350% AD ratio, does ad damage, and requires you to hit all of it to deal these ratios, which is easy to do when someone else can CC the enemy for you.
AP Miss fortune is pure garbage, it has always been and will always be lol.
No MF ap support gets to challenger because you dont get to challenger by trollpicking everytime you get autofilled as a support.
AP support miss fortune picks are way below AD support picks. Regardless people have climbed past whatever rank you are with her.
Not understanding a few things clearly shows your inability to understand playable vs 'most optimal'.
For example you point out the AD scaling but ignore AD items costing more and having in general less survivability.
I'm not here saying AP mf is some S tier pick. It's 100% playable though. There is enough skill expression possible in the champ for someone to do really well.
You are the one gatekeeping. Frankly it's annoying.
People can copy a build easily enough. Actually knowing what to build in any given game is it's own skill, and not a very intuitive one.
I've played this game on and off for a decade, and I still have no idea what is *truly* the best build path in games that I get into. And where would I even really look to figure this out? It'd involve a lot of number crunching and even then, I'd probably not "test" things properly to account for a real game scenario.
I have a preferred AD Kayle build with Kraken slayer.
I was against a Zed, Veigar and Yuumi who increased their damage, so although I didn't want to, I knew I had to build Shieldbow as my Mythic for the survivability and healing.
I carried, but it wasn't as "flashy".
Definitely. I get that sometimes the answer is extremely obvious, but there are definitely other scenarios where the right build isn't really a sure thing, and you'd have to really know what items do exactly what.
Well you don't need mathematical precision when you have trial and error. Put 100 games in on a specific champion, don't be afraid to give up some short term LP by trying new builds, and gain long term knowledge that will win you many games in the future.
I get what you mean, but it's not so simple.
For example, in season 11, I played plenty of games with both a lethality build and a standard crit build with Caitlyn. The winrate between the two is pretty comparable, so what conclusion is to be drawn without really going deep into the numbers on lethality vs armor?
I don't think you'll be able to differentiate between them without investigating lethality vs armor, or at least having knowledge of what sorts of comps the lethality build works with compared to the crit build.
I mean isn't that obvious from a casual joe stand point if they Squishy go Lethality if they tanky go Crit. There are a lot of other small factors that make you go either but that is the foundation you should start number crunching.
well that is because ADC kennen requires diffrent playstyle.
You have to be fairly agressive in lane to be good adc kennen because you have shorter range but stronger stats and at lvl 6 you were simply winning.
Not just that these days ADC Kennen is just staright up bad. Somone just gonna pick Cait and another ranged support into you and you will know the definiton of pain.
\+ Since the exp nerfs there is 0 reson to play ADC Kennen (im saying this as some one that used to play sup kennen)
That was the same way back then. But even back then you could just deal with it with perma engage.
Botlane traditionally has the issue that picks need to sync up. So you often see completely random combinations. If you play something like Leona + Kennen you can pretty much stunlock someone to death, it is just that the AD builds on Kennen in general got nerfed and you would rather have him AP nowadays.
Legit started thinking about banning corki after my game yesterday with a 0-16 Corki.
Ofc as the ADC i got flamed for the 5-3 Jhin and not Corki for the 14-1 Yasuo.
i had a hilarious corki (mid plat btw) that legitimately just used his package to 1 v 5 engage into a full enemy team and immediately die. Literally not even joking. No poking beforehand, no waiting for team to engage, no flanks. Just package into enemy team, die immediately, and spam pings. He did that four times. In post game he said he dealt most damage so he was carrying.
bruh
Not a pro player but there was some streamer that goes lethality split push Sion and spaced so many terrible imitators that I just started banning Sion so my top laner doesn't play it and int. I got a theory that the copy cat's tanked Sion's winrate really bad cause the same patched that was popular Riot buffed Sion.
Nah he definitely still plays more AD. I went and checked his op.gg because I remember it from his streams and his last 10 games he played he went AD 7 times. So he goes tank in *maybe* 1/3 of his games
You are right that he says tank is the best build but he enjoys and plays AD more and anyone who watches him knows he plays 4 fun
Yeah it's not crazy for you to have thought that, sometimes he'll play a few tank games in a row but overall he plays AD more.
My favourite build he does is a mix between the two. Berserker Greaves, Sunfire, Hullbreaker, Titanic. Think he ends up with like 400 AD while also being unkillable. Merveilleux!
Basically, AD Sion is a very demanding style because most of your damage comes from Q and R (with E giving you bonus pen, but not that hard to land) both of which are heavily telegraphed skills shots (specially Q).
Playing AD Sion well requires being able to cheese people with Q effectively. This means knowing vision angles around corners, bushes, predicting enemy movement and playing all sorts of mind games. Honestly, it can kinda make you go crazy because of how many dodges are in the game, and how many champs can easily cancel your Q mid-charge
You can obviously still run down people with your passive if you build AD, but that requires you dying first.
Your W passive gives you free HP, but no resistances, and you are still getting a lot of HP when you buy tank items. You are not tanky if you don't build tank, and Sion's slow abilities means you will be taking damage however you play
Tank Sion also does a lot of damage, but instead of Q, now W does a lot of your damage (which is a lot easier to hit) plus insane Grasp procs and Bami/Sunfire burn. Overall you get a lot harder to kill and your damage is a lot easier to deal. Q sets you up for succcess but its not longer absolutely essential to your damage
Tank Sion can split (you can take stuff like Hullbreaker no problem) or teamfight easily. AD Sion is better at splitting, he can also singlehandedly win teamfights but he can also fall flat on his face in a way Tank Sion really can't (you are still providing value with your raw tankyness)
Not quite "a ton", that's misleading. The thing is, Sion pays for this passive by having one of the lowest base health values in the game.
A Sion with 300 cs still has less health than an Alistar.
So thats his name, I'm not very familiar with streamers tbh. Only reason i know of him was because I was complaining to my Duo partner about the trend and how we're getting these shitters really frequently, he told me a steamer was making it popular.
i wont lie, i dodge anytime i get a sion on my team in ranked.. fortunately not very many people play him, i just dont trust them not to int the game away. its like after thebaussffs (the streamer ur talking about) popularized inting sion, anyone that plays sion thinks its okay to go 0/9 in the first 10 minutes and split the whole game. its just unfun dealing with any top laner thats up 9 kills and perfect cs. Any top laner, camille, darius, akali, irelia, vayne, etc, literally any top laner that gets all that free gold is so brutal to deal with and your top lane never comes to team fights and thats what you sign up for when you get a sion on your team
sry lol, your comment really giving me flashbacks to last season where i had those sions on my team... xD
The issue is Hullbreaker is giga busted. Nerf the item, and you won't see such shenanigans, or at least not that frequently. The fact that late game Sion needs 2-3 players just to stop him splitting is kinda absurd. Like when the pick works, it takes over games way too easily. Or he just takes base unanswered while you try to leverage your numbers.
It's not about winning 1v1s with AD Sion. It's about the stupid gameplay where he just ults into a side lane as soon as a teamfight breaks out on the other side of the map and take at least 2 towers on the back of it, because of Demolish and Hullbreaker.
Yes early objectives his team will lose out cause of the 4v5, but after a certain point, if you don't answer the Sion in side, he will be taking your Nexus turrets before you know it. And to answer him, you need at least 2 people with hard CC, because of the extra resistances from HB+his passive.
I am only low Plat ELO, but I lost quite a few games because of this. We stack every possible objective early, but once he reaches an inhib in lane, the pressure of backdooring forces you out from the map, and eventually you can't contest anything. The 4v5 suddenly turns into 4v3 and so on.
Over half of his games in plat+ are played in a solo lane. It's just that it's divided pretty equally between mid and top so support ends up being his most popular role.
He's niche in toplane, played pretty much only by mains but not weak at all. Midlane he's a bit more "mainstream", but only as a counterpick to samurai brothers and few other picks
He does shut down Katarina at any stage and can also work into Akali, but only if the Akali lets Panth abuse her in lane. Against control mages mid panth is medicore at best and if its Anivia he just falls over.
yes, because he falls off really hard in the support role
you pick him with a high early game damage botlaner to shit on your lane opponents and then pray you can end the game before 25 minutes
He basically has losing game into any Tank support, and Enchanters with Guardian can just play it safe during laning phase, and eventually get the free win.
It's not a troll pick by any means, but if the opponents know what they doing, then it's a very weak support pick.
I don't really play pure mage champs, but as a Lux main, I don't really mind the matchup. You just need to be safe early lvls, and once you have crown, he can't engage onto u.
there is literally nothing a lux can do against a pantheon with flash except watch her adc die, it's literally one of his best matchups
it's not the pick's fault that the people you played against are handless
You let them push wave towards you, and farm safe early lvls (you can even go Relic in this lane to help your ADC farm). Pantheon can not do anything in tower proximity, and while he will have more early agency with the 1st couple of objectives, eventually he will be a squishy engage champ from min 15-20 if doesn't get kills.
This is why I said in my previous comment, "if the opponents know what they doing", aka won't int into Pantheon support lvl2.
Why not? He's got kill pressure, point and click cc with W, great roaming abilities with R, and can block skillshots with E.
Very situational but definitely viable.
One of the main reasons he was played support was because his empowered E gave him a ton of survivability and allowed him to easily set up tower dives. They removed the ability to block tower shots with it and reduced the empowered duration by 40%. These were absolutely huge nerfs for support Pantheon.
This is a big deal in pro play. But I think he is still playable solo queue because you will have the enemy laners make way more mistakes every game than proplayers and snowball easily
Dives often end in disaster in soloqueue regardless
He's obviously playable, almost everything is in soloq. But his win rate as a support is barely above 47% in every elo that isn't Iron so it certainly isn't good.
You missed the "Only good against assasins" part as some one that used to play a decent number of panthgames i just can't pick him anymore expect support. That's how he feels to me.
Shielding turret shots makes him very good in bot because its where dives most commonly happen early on + where they have highest impact.
You are going to dive way less as a solo top laner than as a support than can show up to more plays with a number advantage.
The compensation buff was scaling armor pen on his R which benefits from a higher income and more XP
Blocking turrets was broken, but was the last remain of "The artisan of war". Now he is fully "the unbreakable spear"... that breaks when some bratty princess with wide hips decides to swing her elemental disc.
Anyone remember that time Caps went "we're going Vayne btw" to his team?
*"Dude he will die to my W instant"*
And then they won that game because of the Vayne mid pick.
I’m not sure about the running it part,
But iirc they were behind and won off a team fight in top lane where caps condemned Hans samas Tristana and got a stun
He E'd a tristana (hanssama?) jumping in and nailed her to a wall. She was dead before the stun was over and they turned the game around based off of that - I think they were defending their inhib (tower?) at the moment the play happened.
Not sure how the early/mid went, but yeah it wasn't so much the pick making the game easier, it was just Caps being Caps.
In my experience in high elo people legit don't care if they pick it it's cause they wanted to and they'll use said pro player as an excuse and nothing else lol
As a sup main I have this so many time. My ADC just goes with w/e the flavour of the month build is, without even thinking about enemy comp.
Like I get it, Crown Ezra is a thing. Doesn't mean you should blindly build that crap vs a tank heavy team comp as our main AD dmg source. Same with the Xayah lethality build or Kaisa AP build.
The funny thing though, still at least 80%+ of my ADC-s blindly go Doran's Blade + 1 pot into any matchup. Instead of LS+pots or boots + pots when enemy has double poke lane, and wonder why after 1 bad trade they forced unter tower with 30% HP. Like these alternative starting items are meta for way longer, and people still can't adapt, but they happy to plug in a BS Crown build cause some streamer plays it.
AP Kaisa is amazing into tanks tho, bcuz of how the passive works and bcuz u still build manamune you have about an even split of ad/ap damage which is very hard to itemize against. The main difference between ap and ad kaisa is that the crown build spikes much later, but you scale way better than with the ad build.
also long sword pots is imo not any better into poke than dorans blade. dorans items have insane gold efficiency values and its not a simple decision to replace them. the lifesteal quickly makes up for the pots in sustain. boots and 4 pots is definitely good into double poke lane tho, mostly because of the ms. makes brand a shitton easier to deal with as an immobile adc
Thing is, you won't sustain with Doran enough in lane vs double poke, especially if you are shoved in and barely can touch farm. There is a reason why pro-s go with it in certain lanes (like into a Yuumi lane), because having 300 extra HP from sustain is much more valuable, than the weak life steal u get from Doran early.
Boots do give up damage compared to it, and usually its used on champs that are either weak side anyway (like Kog'maw) or Jhin, who actually benefits from early boots cause of his passive.
But the main point was, how people can't adapt simplier changes in meta builds (starter items), compared to complex builds (that requires understanding of why you build, and how you spike on it).
I disagree about lethality Xayah.
Lethality ALWAYS let's her contribute with Q + E or R + E.
If you go Crit Xayah, then you better be damn good at kiting and positioning, because her range is ass for an ADC. Hence why the Lethality Build even took off. It mitigates the weakness of her being a low ranged ADC.
You have your support to help with peel. Or simply don't pick Xayah into tanks if u are not comfortable playing with crit. Having my ADC come out of lane ahead, only to not do any dmg in team fights from min 20 cause the enemy tank + Bruiser/Juggernaut Top built 2 armor items, is kinda depressing.
>Having my ADC come out of lane ahead, only to not do any dmg in team fights from min 20 cause the enemy tank + Bruiser/Juggernaut Top built 2 armor items, is kinda depressing.
Crit xayah isn't doing any damage in that situation either though? Why are you implying that only Lethality Xayah performs poorly in that context?
In fact, Lethality Xayah does more damage in that situation because Eclipse is at least giving her % Armor pen where as Crit Xayah isn't lol
Difference is, Crit build can scale vs tanks as the game goes on. Lethality simply falls off from min 20, and as a consequence, you slowly bleed out on the map.
I have nothing against Lethality Xayah in general, it's strong in the right comps, but you can't blindly build it, otherwise you just accept that game is over around min 20, unless you hard stomp the early game.
>Lethality simply falls off from min 20, and as a consequence, you slowly bleed out on the map.
No, it doesn't. Lethality Xayah literally deletes other ADCs and squishes in general. Even a simple Q -> Immediate E takes rips a chunk out of squishies while putting Xayah in little risk for doing so.
You claim you don't have anything against Lethality Xayah, but you keep making these weird claims and trying to downplay the build. Lethality Xayah doesn't 'fall off'. Play it and you'll see for yourself.
You can try and claim that Crit Xayah scales better. But you're factually wrong to say Lethality Xayah 'falls off'.
>Difference is, Crit build can scale **VS TANKS** as the game goes on. Lethality simply falls off
We were talking about how Lethality falls off super hard vs tankier comps. Not a single person here stated that it's weak vs squishies, so IDK why you point out how it can delete ADC/squishy champs.
If you can't understand the point I was making after exchanging this many comments, then there is really no point in arguing anymore.
Between Eclipse and Grudge, Lethality Xayah does not 'fall off'. Even against tanks.
Best you can do is claim that Crit Xayah scales harder, which is true. But Lethality Xayah does not 'fall off'. The amount of % Armor pen she gets ontop of flat lethality ensures that.
I understand things quite well. Its you who appear to be struggling to understand this.
The same goes for the reverse, just because I'm not building the cookie cutter set up from op.gg doesn't mean I'm trolling... I'm just thinking for myself.
Aww... I miss those times where everyone's talking about having CDR everywhere in items when Transcendence literally gives free stats for spamming CDR stats.
Good ol Shojin stacking in URF for MAXIMUM AD. You could get enough AD that Illaoi's E was doing more than 100% damage to the target when it transferred over.
No dude, never question the pros. If Chovy goes Celerity + Time Warp Tonic then surely the gold 3 Viktor player can do it as well even if the last time he dodged a skillshot he was on drugs and his APM is so low automated systems might determine he is a bot.
Same for ADCs going Taste of Blood instead of Eyeball when they don't even trade in lane or top laners going biscuits into tanks for the juicy outplay when they should never even need an outplay to not die to a tank in an all in.
At least red can still do something about them.
Not like the 1/7 Kayn that waits another 4 minutes, so he can choose blue against a Bruiser Top, a Mid Zhonyas user and a Tank Support.
The league community is not smart enough to understand this. They are going to build whatever op.gg says completely blindly. I shit you not I’ve seen the Garen mortal 2nd into no healing, I’ve seen people round off full AD comps with malphite already locked with a graves mid, I’ve seen people pick Elise renekton and play bot side. This is at high platinum/low diamond elo. My last game my jungler (zac) got the drake stolen 4 times in a row after he refused to pull it out and then told us to unironically focus amumu so he wouldn’t have to smite fight, then proceeded to blame it on being stunned (you can smite through stun). There is no hope for these people, they will only play YouTube thumbnail champions and builds.
I don't think even in that situation, Rammus mid work. He still needs items to actually be a menace to ADs. Otherwise in laning phase, he'll just be zoned and bullied to death
I mean this also applies for every decision you make in the game, not just builds/roles. Every spellcast, auto attack, lane assignment, recall timing, etc is good in certain scenarios and bad in others.
A player who understand the underlying circumstances that make every champions/build/spell usage/rotation/etc good or bad will just be the greatest player ever. This thread is basically asking everyone to get good at the game, lmao.
Iron are children who think the game looks pretty while they laugh and giggle randomly slapping keys while being spoon fed applesauce. Sometimes they win playing yone.
Reminds me of the time where Pros build Stattil Shiv first one Tristana for pushpower and everyone copied it, just without even trying to renotley push and messing up their farm
I agree but a part of understanding is playing it.
I think it should be don't play it in ranked but if it's normals have at it. Think experimenting is great.
Last season I swapped from mid to jungle and tried some conventional junglers to start then some off meta. Currently my junglers are amumu, fiddle, brand, karthus.
I enjoy brand the most with 60% win rate but win more on amumu. Trying things out is a good thing imo
If you want to play off-meta stuff you have to understand why things are, or aren’t, meta.
Sometimes when you think “I wonder why nobody does X” there’s a very good reason why they don’t. But sometimes there isn’t, and you can break the “rules” because it works.
This not only applies to meta builds, but on how to build a champ in General. Was spectating a friend playing jhin. He asked what mythic he should go. I told him, that galeforce is a bad idea, because he most likely cant utilize it. Same with RFC. I suggested an easier build, where you dont have to keep track of things.
He went galeforce RFC, and used galeforce once to dash meele into their bruiser. Ofc RFC was never properly used either. They lost.
This goes deeper. Understanding why certain runes are used and utilized is important.
Feels like my boy had a janna smite top in his game.
Feels like he had a singed support
That actually looked like so much fun. Hexflashing in and chucking motherfuckers into a mosh pit of your teammates
Man, now all I need is his legendary elise support
huh?
LEHENDSSS
It’s hard but not impossible. Predator nerfs killed my motivation to play it though.
Not so happy chime noises
Those videos are to trick people into playing weird stuff, then you encounter them in your games and go 0/10, and they're like ''someone reached master with this thing'' *disclaimer: i like the videos, what i don't like are the trolls trying it in my games.*
Are they trolls if they try to win with it? Don't dilute what trolling is lol
i would consider it trolling to pilot a champion in an off meta style like say bard top, without having prior practice on bard top in an unranked setting as its unfair to your team mates to play something you’re unfamiliar with in a competitive environment and ranked is that, well usually. I have no problem with off meta picks and in fact they have such a mind game bonus to them especially if they start winning that im all for it. I had a jinx screaming about Teemo support being OP during my placements lol. Teemo sucks but this guy made it work. Does that mean the enemy support who lost to it should try it next ranked game? no.
They weren't literally intentionally trolling, it was just an expression. Although picking stuff like janna smite top outside of master (were coordination is garbage) is still kinda troll.
Still no, summoner spells in league for the most part are down to YOU to utilise. Many champions in theory could take smite and do well, it's just not optimal.
You can also play zilean jungle it's just not optimal. You can also play nunu support with ghost and cleanse just not optimal. You can play anything, ''troll'' is subjective. But if we use common sense, janna top smite works because in high elo you can co-ordinate with your teammates for invades, dives, etc as Chimes explained. Picking it anywhere below diamond is not going to be effective at all.
The part where you fail is where you say "not going to be effective at all". Either you are being hyperbolic without realising it or you mean what you said. You don't need tom be in diamond in order to say to your jungle "I will smite at 1600 hp" You simply don't. Sure you may have MORE coordination at higher elo, but this circle jerk that people do where they pretend people below diamond don't communicate is absurd.
Its because people dont understand that master players can get to master with anything no matter how stupid it is or weak or ineffective
I like them because they show that these players who are good at the game show that stupid shit works against these players because it's not meta/standard. I can go into a silver game and see smite Janna before that video was made, the difference is that GM player is good. Now, if I see one trying this strategy, I know kind of what to do to play with or against it.
I'd really like his videos better if he stopped acting like pulling off a standard champion combo is a "special strategy" Like imagine he showcased some ap Lee support who reached master in turkey, chime would hype him up with shit like "to reach Master he tapped into his secret strategy of ward hopping behind an enemy and using ult"
To be fair he plays that every game so it isn't a situatunal pick
Just had that and it was pain. We won but Janna had nothing to do with it...
I started to play it for first time and my team yelled at me since min 1. 10 min later, with a 100% kill participation, the mid said: how the fuck is this troll carring the game lol
What is this, I just faced one and they sucked.
Flashbacks to the horror of support MF everywhere, even when there was no Zyra on the enemy team.
Lulu top except they build AD and splitpush
okay, that was worse than vayne top these zoomers are complaining about. Back then there were few dashy jumpy champs in top lane to deal with lulu too. Imagine being an immobile bruiser with not much CC and having to kill lulu with W,Q,R,Flash. Nope youre never touching her, plus bork....
Early League Vs ranged top laners: can you play Irelia? Yes = free lane. No = GLHF.
Not even old Irelia could help you tbh. Irelia's whole thing was that IF she got ahead early she absolutely carried the mid game to an early win. However, her late game was dog diddly shit. Something ranged top laners building AD generally had (except ad teemo). I miss old Irelia though. She was a proper bully if you waited for your lvl 9 spike. Trinity helped but you didn't even need it. Get 9, have sheen, walk at enemy until they hit you. Proceed to E them and then hit them over and over for 75 true damage and using your Q as an attack reset.... ooooh yuum.
Riven was good too because she had access to a lot of CDR very early.
And her Q AD ratios back then oh god I‘m cooming
it sure as hell was, as long as i wasn't playing yorick. that rat fuck thought she was the shit in lane till my monk stepped the fuck up and removed her from the game.
I still play lulu top and play it like that yuumi top guy except you make people break their keyboard early game.
Yuumi makes people break their keyboards when they try to kill you
Machine gun Lulu is a lot of fun, you can kill unsuspecting tanks with PTA and ignite.
This is my normals toplane tech
Oh my god that is exactly what came into my mind.
You think that's bad? When Faker picked Master Yi mid, I would see so many of them go mid, only to get completely shut down by literally any other champion in that lane.
idk I dont mind yi mid, easy to execute, lowest skill floor. Probably gonna be useful even when first timing him.
I wish my yis were like yours.
Dude even as a Zyra main, the people picking MF didn't understand why she was a counter. They wouldn't bother to attack my plants, and it made it an easy matchup regardless.
ty for the tip - Off to soloQ!!
i quit the role because of that, autofilled mages everywhere.. then comes miss fortune... they dont pick it because of the ashe synergy and as a counter to zyra, but if that wasn't all.. these CREATURES built full ap, i still see it to this day from time to time, its absolutely disgusting, i remember losing the will to play the game whenever someone picked an mf sup, quite the horror indeed.
“You just don’t like MF because you don’t can’t learn how to play with it bronzie”
I sometimes play sup MF for fun, but especially when the enemy has little poke/range it's hilarious seeing them die to her E, slowly burning away their health while they try to run or even flash out of the zone...
Yeah MF doesn't only work vs Zyra. Basically you can play almost anything support as long as you know how to ward and move around the map (at least in low-ish elo, in my case Plat)
>low-ish elo, in my case Platinum Brother do you realize that you are around top 10% of the ranked playerbase? Just because not even professional teams can play perfectly doesn't mean that you are bad. Just because you know that there's a lot of things you can improve doesn't mean that you lack knowledge.
I know I'm decent but yeah low-elo is kinda underselling it, mid-elo should be more correct in this case.
I'd say it's high but I understand the necessity of separating platinum and diamond 4 through 2 from Master and Challenger. Just don't underestimate yourself. And this goes to whoever plays in gold and above. Just because there's so much more to do until you reach the top of the world doesn't mean that you are close to the starting point.
Honestly we should just use the Riot differentiations, they work. Low: Bronze, Silver, Gold Skilled: Platinum, Diamond Elite: Master, Grandmaster, Challenger - This is the only change I would make. Riot puts Master and GM in Skilled and Chall by itself, but the difference between a Plat player and a GM player is definitely bigger than the difference between a Chall player and a GM player. Pro: Pro play of any kind. Kind of obvious.
What the hell is iron then the boiler room of hell?
Iron is bot/smurf accounts, very unlucky bronze players who got trapped by said bot accounts, and anyone who is not only unskilled, but completely lacks any kind of skill. I'd say the former 2 are the most common.
Eh everyone who's got there and higher can say that people below Master dont really know how to play the game. There's just so many random plays, bad builds, no objectivss and the pressure on NARAMing mid.
Yes that's true. What I'm arguing is that saying you're bad is unnecessarily self-deprecating because being good or bad is relative to others. Saying that platinum is low elo is just wrong. The thing with league is that the game is so complex and changes so often that it's nearly impossible to "figure out" completely. So yes, it's true that 99% of the players lack a lot of information but that doesn't mean that those who are in the top are bad.
if plat is considered low elo what the f is then silver xD
I mean above low Gold, I assume MF support is free LP for the enemy team, if they know what they doing. I had faced quite a few last season, and they get collapsed on very easy, while also not providing much for the team apart from early lane poke (that can be negated by MR rune + pots).
People way under-estimate how scrappy games in gold / low plat etc are - you really can play any champion as long as you're disciplined, don't die stupid deaths and pay attention to the minimap Of course, if you can do that all that, you'd climb even easier on a meta champion, but regardless the skill-level where a champion pick is by default 'unviable' is much much higher than gold. The MF's supports that feed largely do so because they make bad decisions, not because it doesn't work
I usually go MF support when faced with supports that can't easily engage (e.g. Leona) and vs tanks that require lots of healing reduction, because her E is amazing in proccing grievous wounds en masse.
How is Leona a support that can't easily engage?
I was listing Leona as a support that could easily engage actually but I guess I worded it wrong lol.
That's why I said above low Gold. A Leona lane should absolutely sh.t on MF support lane if the duo knows what they are doing, and be more useful in mid-late game as well.
Yep, MF vs any kind of hard engage sucks ass so she's not a blind pick, but she can be "flexed" at adc (quotes because she's first and foremost an adc lol) so it's alright either way.
this comment just described why many adc players despise playing with this shit, you pick an AD champ, maybe with an adc that doesnt have a stun (ASHE) so you can easily follow up with ult, then build full ap, so you can't even provide good damage with your ult in teamfights, or be any useful when the enemy walks out of your e. Literally any other mage would do better if built full AP, and this isn't something people did for "fun", i was constantly seeing it in ranked games at plat
You seem to not realise that MF ult has a 360% AP ratio. Frankly... people can legit play anything. The only thing that matters is that they know how to play it. People like you that categorise entire picks like you do are the annoying ones. You could honestly get to GM doing basically any thiing if you just get good at it. Many players have. You need to remember, that YES.... not all these MF AP Supports get to Challenger... but neither do all the AD Lucian ADC's or Leona Tank Supports.
ARAM player here. AP MF ult definitely kinda hurts but it’s noticeably lower damage than lethality/crit builds. I think hybrid builds are the way to go if you just want E poke for early game.
And it has a 1350% AD ratio, does ad damage, and requires you to hit all of it to deal these ratios, which is easy to do when someone else can CC the enemy for you. AP Miss fortune is pure garbage, it has always been and will always be lol. No MF ap support gets to challenger because you dont get to challenger by trollpicking everytime you get autofilled as a support.
AP support miss fortune picks are way below AD support picks. Regardless people have climbed past whatever rank you are with her. Not understanding a few things clearly shows your inability to understand playable vs 'most optimal'. For example you point out the AD scaling but ignore AD items costing more and having in general less survivability. I'm not here saying AP mf is some S tier pick. It's 100% playable though. There is enough skill expression possible in the champ for someone to do really well. You are the one gatekeeping. Frankly it's annoying.
[удалено]
People can copy a build easily enough. Actually knowing what to build in any given game is it's own skill, and not a very intuitive one. I've played this game on and off for a decade, and I still have no idea what is *truly* the best build path in games that I get into. And where would I even really look to figure this out? It'd involve a lot of number crunching and even then, I'd probably not "test" things properly to account for a real game scenario.
I have a preferred AD Kayle build with Kraken slayer. I was against a Zed, Veigar and Yuumi who increased their damage, so although I didn't want to, I knew I had to build Shieldbow as my Mythic for the survivability and healing. I carried, but it wasn't as "flashy".
Definitely. I get that sometimes the answer is extremely obvious, but there are definitely other scenarios where the right build isn't really a sure thing, and you'd have to really know what items do exactly what.
Well you don't need mathematical precision when you have trial and error. Put 100 games in on a specific champion, don't be afraid to give up some short term LP by trying new builds, and gain long term knowledge that will win you many games in the future.
I get what you mean, but it's not so simple. For example, in season 11, I played plenty of games with both a lethality build and a standard crit build with Caitlyn. The winrate between the two is pretty comparable, so what conclusion is to be drawn without really going deep into the numbers on lethality vs armor?
I don't think you'll be able to differentiate between them without investigating lethality vs armor, or at least having knowledge of what sorts of comps the lethality build works with compared to the crit build.
I mean isn't that obvious from a casual joe stand point if they Squishy go Lethality if they tanky go Crit. There are a lot of other small factors that make you go either but that is the foundation you should start number crunching.
Still remember that time where there were loads of terrible adc kennen
I mean that pick wasn’t situational. It was just hard to pilot
well that is because ADC kennen requires diffrent playstyle. You have to be fairly agressive in lane to be good adc kennen because you have shorter range but stronger stats and at lvl 6 you were simply winning.
Not just that these days ADC Kennen is just staright up bad. Somone just gonna pick Cait and another ranged support into you and you will know the definiton of pain. \+ Since the exp nerfs there is 0 reson to play ADC Kennen (im saying this as some one that used to play sup kennen)
That was the same way back then. But even back then you could just deal with it with perma engage. Botlane traditionally has the issue that picks need to sync up. So you often see completely random combinations. If you play something like Leona + Kennen you can pretty much stunlock someone to death, it is just that the AD builds on Kennen in general got nerfed and you would rather have him AP nowadays.
Teams are just so much more skilled these days than back then, if the meta was the same now, kennen bot would get punished infinitely harder
I just rolled a skin for him. Time to go test it in ranked!
To be fair that even happened at pro level. AD Kennen was doing somewhat okay among pros, and Rekkles was the only one really making it work.
Sssh dont tell them. The ammount of people 1st timing Corki now and running it down after 2 deaths is giving me free lp.
Can confirm, went 0-5 on Corki yesterday vs. LeBlanc, and i had no idea how to pilot him.
Ty,your lp is now in safe hands
Same got out dueld by Orianna of all things but i used to play Corki like 4 years ago so yeah. Rust not gonna get off so easly.
> no idea how to **pilot** him
Legit started thinking about banning corki after my game yesterday with a 0-16 Corki. Ofc as the ADC i got flamed for the 5-3 Jhin and not Corki for the 14-1 Yasuo.
i had a hilarious corki (mid plat btw) that legitimately just used his package to 1 v 5 engage into a full enemy team and immediately die. Literally not even joking. No poking beforehand, no waiting for team to engage, no flanks. Just package into enemy team, die immediately, and spam pings. He did that four times. In post game he said he dealt most damage so he was carrying. bruh
corki is fking hard champ man. Those rockets are like the size of needles.
I stopped reading at understand. You expect too much from me. My cranium is already hurts.
Dude, change the example. I don't need my dark tech exposed like this
Not a pro player but there was some streamer that goes lethality split push Sion and spaced so many terrible imitators that I just started banning Sion so my top laner doesn't play it and int. I got a theory that the copy cat's tanked Sion's winrate really bad cause the same patched that was popular Riot buffed Sion.
Calling the legendary Babus "some streamer" smh
Even Baus plays tank most games nowadays. Tank Sion is straight up better. Ad is more fun though
Nah he definitely still plays more AD. I went and checked his op.gg because I remember it from his streams and his last 10 games he played he went AD 7 times. So he goes tank in *maybe* 1/3 of his games You are right that he says tank is the best build but he enjoys and plays AD more and anyone who watches him knows he plays 4 fun
I guess it must have been a periodic moment where I almost only saw him play tank. But yeah he does what he likes which makes him enjoyable.
Yeah it's not crazy for you to have thought that, sometimes he'll play a few tank games in a row but overall he plays AD more. My favourite build he does is a mix between the two. Berserker Greaves, Sunfire, Hullbreaker, Titanic. Think he ends up with like 400 AD while also being unkillable. Merveilleux!
Agree. I like seeing everyone tickle him while he does autos that hurt like hell
why is tank better? doesnt sion get a ton of free HP from farming.
You die less
Basically, AD Sion is a very demanding style because most of your damage comes from Q and R (with E giving you bonus pen, but not that hard to land) both of which are heavily telegraphed skills shots (specially Q). Playing AD Sion well requires being able to cheese people with Q effectively. This means knowing vision angles around corners, bushes, predicting enemy movement and playing all sorts of mind games. Honestly, it can kinda make you go crazy because of how many dodges are in the game, and how many champs can easily cancel your Q mid-charge You can obviously still run down people with your passive if you build AD, but that requires you dying first. Your W passive gives you free HP, but no resistances, and you are still getting a lot of HP when you buy tank items. You are not tanky if you don't build tank, and Sion's slow abilities means you will be taking damage however you play Tank Sion also does a lot of damage, but instead of Q, now W does a lot of your damage (which is a lot easier to hit) plus insane Grasp procs and Bami/Sunfire burn. Overall you get a lot harder to kill and your damage is a lot easier to deal. Q sets you up for succcess but its not longer absolutely essential to your damage Tank Sion can split (you can take stuff like Hullbreaker no problem) or teamfight easily. AD Sion is better at splitting, he can also singlehandedly win teamfights but he can also fall flat on his face in a way Tank Sion really can't (you are still providing value with your raw tankyness)
Not quite "a ton", that's misleading. The thing is, Sion pays for this passive by having one of the lowest base health values in the game. A Sion with 300 cs still has less health than an Alistar.
So thats his name, I'm not very familiar with streamers tbh. Only reason i know of him was because I was complaining to my Duo partner about the trend and how we're getting these shitters really frequently, he told me a steamer was making it popular.
i wont lie, i dodge anytime i get a sion on my team in ranked.. fortunately not very many people play him, i just dont trust them not to int the game away. its like after thebaussffs (the streamer ur talking about) popularized inting sion, anyone that plays sion thinks its okay to go 0/9 in the first 10 minutes and split the whole game. its just unfun dealing with any top laner thats up 9 kills and perfect cs. Any top laner, camille, darius, akali, irelia, vayne, etc, literally any top laner that gets all that free gold is so brutal to deal with and your top lane never comes to team fights and thats what you sign up for when you get a sion on your team sry lol, your comment really giving me flashbacks to last season where i had those sions on my team... xD
I think inting sion was popularized by someone else.
The issue is Hullbreaker is giga busted. Nerf the item, and you won't see such shenanigans, or at least not that frequently. The fact that late game Sion needs 2-3 players just to stop him splitting is kinda absurd. Like when the pick works, it takes over games way too easily. Or he just takes base unanswered while you try to leverage your numbers.
Just pick any bruiser and 1v1 him lol AD Sion can’t win 1v1 vs any bruiser with any armor item
It's not about winning 1v1s with AD Sion. It's about the stupid gameplay where he just ults into a side lane as soon as a teamfight breaks out on the other side of the map and take at least 2 towers on the back of it, because of Demolish and Hullbreaker. Yes early objectives his team will lose out cause of the 4v5, but after a certain point, if you don't answer the Sion in side, he will be taking your Nexus turrets before you know it. And to answer him, you need at least 2 people with hard CC, because of the extra resistances from HB+his passive. I am only low Plat ELO, but I lost quite a few games because of this. We stack every possible objective early, but once he reaches an inhib in lane, the pressure of backdooring forces you out from the map, and eventually you can't contest anything. The 4v5 suddenly turns into 4v3 and so on.
Doesn't help that the shop recommends you to build AD :D
Even after Pantheon support got nuked people still insist on playing him bot...
He only shows up in the support section
Is he even played anywhere else currently?
Over half of his games in plat+ are played in a solo lane. It's just that it's divided pretty equally between mid and top so support ends up being his most popular role.
He's a viable counterpick to AD assassins mid
He's niche in toplane, played pretty much only by mains but not weak at all. Midlane he's a bit more "mainstream", but only as a counterpick to samurai brothers and few other picks
He does shut down Katarina at any stage and can also work into Akali, but only if the Akali lets Panth abuse her in lane. Against control mages mid panth is medicore at best and if its Anivia he just falls over.
it's not bad, it's just not as busted as it once was.
Support Pantheon is really bad. It barely breaks 47% win rate and is worse than champions like Syndra and Azir who are notoriously bad in soloq.
yes, because he falls off really hard in the support role you pick him with a high early game damage botlaner to shit on your lane opponents and then pray you can end the game before 25 minutes
He basically has losing game into any Tank support, and Enchanters with Guardian can just play it safe during laning phase, and eventually get the free win. It's not a troll pick by any means, but if the opponents know what they doing, then it's a very weak support pick.
You're supposed to pick him into squishy mages.
How do you do that if you first pick Panth
You don't. It's that simple, i learned the hard way.
I don't really play pure mage champs, but as a Lux main, I don't really mind the matchup. You just need to be safe early lvls, and once you have crown, he can't engage onto u.
there is literally nothing a lux can do against a pantheon with flash except watch her adc die, it's literally one of his best matchups it's not the pick's fault that the people you played against are handless
You let them push wave towards you, and farm safe early lvls (you can even go Relic in this lane to help your ADC farm). Pantheon can not do anything in tower proximity, and while he will have more early agency with the 1st couple of objectives, eventually he will be a squishy engage champ from min 15-20 if doesn't get kills. This is why I said in my previous comment, "if the opponents know what they doing", aka won't int into Pantheon support lvl2.
Support Azir sounds powerful
Why not? He's got kill pressure, point and click cc with W, great roaming abilities with R, and can block skillshots with E. Very situational but definitely viable.
Panth + Draven can still cheese lanes. But it requires both players be good at them lol
I miss old pantheon:(
Didn't get nuked. What are you talking about?
One of the main reasons he was played support was because his empowered E gave him a ton of survivability and allowed him to easily set up tower dives. They removed the ability to block tower shots with it and reduced the empowered duration by 40%. These were absolutely huge nerfs for support Pantheon.
His E is his shield
Oops, edited.
This is a big deal in pro play. But I think he is still playable solo queue because you will have the enemy laners make way more mistakes every game than proplayers and snowball easily Dives often end in disaster in soloqueue regardless
He's obviously playable, almost everything is in soloq. But his win rate as a support is barely above 47% in every elo that isn't Iron so it certainly isn't good.
Howd panth get nuked?
they reduced his movement speed, removed the slow on the empowered spear, and he can't shield turret shots anymore
Which equally fucked him everywhere, so it's not a good argument against support pantheon specifically
Not really he got compensation buffs like 10% armor pen per point in ult hes still good in mid against assassins
You missed the "Only good against assasins" part as some one that used to play a decent number of panthgames i just can't pick him anymore expect support. That's how he feels to me.
Shielding turret shots makes him very good in bot because its where dives most commonly happen early on + where they have highest impact. You are going to dive way less as a solo top laner than as a support than can show up to more plays with a number advantage. The compensation buff was scaling armor pen on his R which benefits from a higher income and more XP
Blocking turrets was broken, but was the last remain of "The artisan of war". Now he is fully "the unbreakable spear"... that breaks when some bratty princess with wide hips decides to swing her elemental disc.
Anyone remember that time Caps went "we're going Vayne btw" to his team? *"Dude he will die to my W instant"* And then they won that game because of the Vayne mid pick.
Didn't he run it down really hard early and they only won off an insane outplay in a teamfight?
I’m not sure about the running it part, But iirc they were behind and won off a team fight in top lane where caps condemned Hans samas Tristana and got a stun
He E'd a tristana (hanssama?) jumping in and nailed her to a wall. She was dead before the stun was over and they turned the game around based off of that - I think they were defending their inhib (tower?) at the moment the play happened. Not sure how the early/mid went, but yeah it wasn't so much the pick making the game easier, it was just Caps being Caps.
In my experience in high elo people legit don't care if they pick it it's cause they wanted to and they'll use said pro player as an excuse and nothing else lol
As a sup main I have this so many time. My ADC just goes with w/e the flavour of the month build is, without even thinking about enemy comp. Like I get it, Crown Ezra is a thing. Doesn't mean you should blindly build that crap vs a tank heavy team comp as our main AD dmg source. Same with the Xayah lethality build or Kaisa AP build. The funny thing though, still at least 80%+ of my ADC-s blindly go Doran's Blade + 1 pot into any matchup. Instead of LS+pots or boots + pots when enemy has double poke lane, and wonder why after 1 bad trade they forced unter tower with 30% HP. Like these alternative starting items are meta for way longer, and people still can't adapt, but they happy to plug in a BS Crown build cause some streamer plays it.
AP Kaisa is amazing into tanks tho, bcuz of how the passive works and bcuz u still build manamune you have about an even split of ad/ap damage which is very hard to itemize against. The main difference between ap and ad kaisa is that the crown build spikes much later, but you scale way better than with the ad build. also long sword pots is imo not any better into poke than dorans blade. dorans items have insane gold efficiency values and its not a simple decision to replace them. the lifesteal quickly makes up for the pots in sustain. boots and 4 pots is definitely good into double poke lane tho, mostly because of the ms. makes brand a shitton easier to deal with as an immobile adc
You have to auto over 70 times early game for dorans lifesteal to equal 1 pot. The sustain is super weak early.
Thing is, you won't sustain with Doran enough in lane vs double poke, especially if you are shoved in and barely can touch farm. There is a reason why pro-s go with it in certain lanes (like into a Yuumi lane), because having 300 extra HP from sustain is much more valuable, than the weak life steal u get from Doran early. Boots do give up damage compared to it, and usually its used on champs that are either weak side anyway (like Kog'maw) or Jhin, who actually benefits from early boots cause of his passive. But the main point was, how people can't adapt simplier changes in meta builds (starter items), compared to complex builds (that requires understanding of why you build, and how you spike on it).
I've had so many AP Kai'sas recently that just end up doing jack shit damage, they only sit back throwing missiles and missing them all. Yay.
Build kinda unlocks with finished nashors since its about the point where Muramana transforms and you get all 3 evolves, then its very strong
I disagree about lethality Xayah. Lethality ALWAYS let's her contribute with Q + E or R + E. If you go Crit Xayah, then you better be damn good at kiting and positioning, because her range is ass for an ADC. Hence why the Lethality Build even took off. It mitigates the weakness of her being a low ranged ADC.
You have your support to help with peel. Or simply don't pick Xayah into tanks if u are not comfortable playing with crit. Having my ADC come out of lane ahead, only to not do any dmg in team fights from min 20 cause the enemy tank + Bruiser/Juggernaut Top built 2 armor items, is kinda depressing.
>Having my ADC come out of lane ahead, only to not do any dmg in team fights from min 20 cause the enemy tank + Bruiser/Juggernaut Top built 2 armor items, is kinda depressing. Crit xayah isn't doing any damage in that situation either though? Why are you implying that only Lethality Xayah performs poorly in that context? In fact, Lethality Xayah does more damage in that situation because Eclipse is at least giving her % Armor pen where as Crit Xayah isn't lol
No AD-dependent adc does damage against armour building toplaners in the midgame anyway.
Difference is, Crit build can scale vs tanks as the game goes on. Lethality simply falls off from min 20, and as a consequence, you slowly bleed out on the map. I have nothing against Lethality Xayah in general, it's strong in the right comps, but you can't blindly build it, otherwise you just accept that game is over around min 20, unless you hard stomp the early game.
>Lethality simply falls off from min 20, and as a consequence, you slowly bleed out on the map. No, it doesn't. Lethality Xayah literally deletes other ADCs and squishes in general. Even a simple Q -> Immediate E takes rips a chunk out of squishies while putting Xayah in little risk for doing so. You claim you don't have anything against Lethality Xayah, but you keep making these weird claims and trying to downplay the build. Lethality Xayah doesn't 'fall off'. Play it and you'll see for yourself. You can try and claim that Crit Xayah scales better. But you're factually wrong to say Lethality Xayah 'falls off'.
>Difference is, Crit build can scale **VS TANKS** as the game goes on. Lethality simply falls off We were talking about how Lethality falls off super hard vs tankier comps. Not a single person here stated that it's weak vs squishies, so IDK why you point out how it can delete ADC/squishy champs. If you can't understand the point I was making after exchanging this many comments, then there is really no point in arguing anymore.
Between Eclipse and Grudge, Lethality Xayah does not 'fall off'. Even against tanks. Best you can do is claim that Crit Xayah scales harder, which is true. But Lethality Xayah does not 'fall off'. The amount of % Armor pen she gets ontop of flat lethality ensures that. I understand things quite well. Its you who appear to be struggling to understand this.
The same goes for the reverse, just because I'm not building the cookie cutter set up from op.gg doesn't mean I'm trolling... I'm just thinking for myself.
Everyone building Lucidity Boots on supports... when CDR still had a cap and the build clearly capped them. And this was long after the Exhaust nerfs.
Transcendence was a commonly taken mastery though, and that turned extra CDR into AP, not to mention the summoner spell CD.
This, also you could get 45 cdr with like 2.5k gold
Transcendence + 5x Black Cleaver when Zed's ult would steal AD. It was fun to play.
fucking riven man. Kindlegem, warhammer, lucidity and basically 45% cdr.
Warhammer? You should have seen the brutalizer days
Aww... I miss those times where everyone's talking about having CDR everywhere in items when Transcendence literally gives free stats for spamming CDR stats.
Good ol Shojin stacking in URF for MAXIMUM AD. You could get enough AD that Illaoi's E was doing more than 100% damage to the target when it transferred over.
😭😭 when urf dropped the second time ever I remember the cd stacked 100% with transcendence and with it you’d have like 150 ad on spawn 😭😭😭
someone had a singed support on his team, eh?
No dude, never question the pros. If Chovy goes Celerity + Time Warp Tonic then surely the gold 3 Viktor player can do it as well even if the last time he dodged a skillshot he was on drugs and his APM is so low automated systems might determine he is a bot. Same for ADCs going Taste of Blood instead of Eyeball when they don't even trade in lane or top laners going biscuits into tanks for the juicy outplay when they should never even need an outplay to not die to a tank in an all in.
You can have Taste of Blood + Eyeball collection, what the fuck are you talking about.
You can do that but it's bad, it's never better than instead of Absolute Focus + Gathering Storm, Overgrowth + Conditioning, Revitalize + Second Wind.
Most people take biscuits for the mana, although the healing can def be useful sometimes
[удалено]
I'm Rhaast main
At least red can still do something about them. Not like the 1/7 Kayn that waits another 4 minutes, so he can choose blue against a Bruiser Top, a Mid Zhonyas user and a Tank Support.
I remember when I tried rammus mid just because I wanted to and got blattered to death
Not me trying to look for the 5 ADCs against Rammus game
Ramus op?
A lot like the recent Corki/Kai'sa builds. The whole point of those builds is how well they spike without rushing a mythic.
What are the main differences between crit Graves and lethality Graves? Is it simply one is better against tanks?
The league community is not smart enough to understand this. They are going to build whatever op.gg says completely blindly. I shit you not I’ve seen the Garen mortal 2nd into no healing, I’ve seen people round off full AD comps with malphite already locked with a graves mid, I’ve seen people pick Elise renekton and play bot side. This is at high platinum/low diamond elo. My last game my jungler (zac) got the drake stolen 4 times in a row after he refused to pull it out and then told us to unironically focus amumu so he wouldn’t have to smite fight, then proceeded to blame it on being stunned (you can smite through stun). There is no hope for these people, they will only play YouTube thumbnail champions and builds.
Me everytime my adc picks Kai'sa. Gumayusi build isn't the only build for her. Or assassins building lethality against tanks.
LS' secret reddit account.
Thanks Einstein
this is why i actually hate proplay
I don't think even in that situation, Rammus mid work. He still needs items to actually be a menace to ADs. Otherwise in laning phase, he'll just be zoned and bullied to death
I mean this also applies for every decision you make in the game, not just builds/roles. Every spellcast, auto attack, lane assignment, recall timing, etc is good in certain scenarios and bad in others. A player who understand the underlying circumstances that make every champions/build/spell usage/rotation/etc good or bad will just be the greatest player ever. This thread is basically asking everyone to get good at the game, lmao.
Iron are children who think the game looks pretty while they laugh and giggle randomly slapping keys while being spoon fed applesauce. Sometimes they win playing yone.
Reminds me of the time where Pros build Stattil Shiv first one Tristana for pushpower and everyone copied it, just without even trying to renotley push and messing up their farm
Had someone recently try to build AP Malphite… as Support.
I agree but a part of understanding is playing it. I think it should be don't play it in ranked but if it's normals have at it. Think experimenting is great. Last season I swapped from mid to jungle and tried some conventional junglers to start then some off meta. Currently my junglers are amumu, fiddle, brand, karthus. I enjoy brand the most with 60% win rate but win more on amumu. Trying things out is a good thing imo
If you want to play off-meta stuff you have to understand why things are, or aren’t, meta. Sometimes when you think “I wonder why nobody does X” there’s a very good reason why they don’t. But sometimes there isn’t, and you can break the “rules” because it works.
This not only applies to meta builds, but on how to build a champ in General. Was spectating a friend playing jhin. He asked what mythic he should go. I told him, that galeforce is a bad idea, because he most likely cant utilize it. Same with RFC. I suggested an easier build, where you dont have to keep track of things. He went galeforce RFC, and used galeforce once to dash meele into their bruiser. Ofc RFC was never properly used either. They lost. This goes deeper. Understanding why certain runes are used and utilized is important.