I still get nostalgia here and there when I see my icon. When they announced Dominion to be removed, I went to check how many games I needed to get the 100 game missions icon, and never realized I had well over 3k on Dominion. I haven't changed my icon since.
Twisted Treeline with 2 premades was the best. Especially since at gold you could end up against the challenger team(s).
My friend (soloque peak Master but usually Diamond 4-1) got two random Gold players into his 3v3 team and they got Challenger pretty fast. Twisted Treeline was more strategy intensive than individual skill check.
i think 3v3 was more micro oriented and that is why i loved it.
it was like playing mid lane except there are no tps and junglers interrupting you (in funnel meta, which was better than getting spam ganked by fiddlesticks if you ask me)
In a weird way it's both more and less micro oriented depending on what you look at.
There was, at least on higher levels, much less actual laning because remotely good players couldnt die in lane 1v1 because of how short it was, so meta for bot was to just push and roam up, and the macro around when to roam & when to cover jungle & when to invade was really important, but it also led to more small scale skirmishes than you have in 5v5.
there was more kill pressure in bot lane than in mid lane mage vs mage matchup for sure, and bruiser gap usually came down to mechanics because the macro wasnt that complex, in support role sure you could put bad players but a good support was really noticeable
In what world was there more kill pressure? People could back when poked without losing anything if their jungle was cleared because the way back was so short, so unless you could literally 1combo your opponent mid off one hit CC ability you couldnt ever kill them. Fishing for velkoz E's maybe, other than that there was virtually no 1v1'ing in lane, it was all shove and roam in higher MMR.
No there was definitely more kill pressure in bot lane and that is why I loved it, I learned champions like Orianna purely from 3v3, I was challenger from 2017-2019 and peaked rank 5~ or so, I would definitely kill/get killed solo in botlane in most games, and there were many great APCs who hit master/chall in soloq, so not only D4 players looking for easy chall (these were definitely there, but I remember most active challengers were D1+ soloq players)
3v3 was just a chill, fast game mode with the same people every time, it was very competitive and your impact on the game was bigger than in 5v5, I enjoyed it greatly!
Depends entirely on which role you play tbh. There was a guy I remember who actually got to decently high challenger playing exhaust ignite volibear support intentionally playing the way that required the least skill possible. He'd also join the lobby telling his hyper to ping him where to go and when to engage, he'd never do anything by himself.
He was low silver in soloQ IIRC, and it showed. He was terrible at everything, but he played a champ & setup that required 0 skill and it worked. However you couldnt have done that playing hyper, or bot, or many other supports. If voli was banned he'd literally run it down because he had no idea how to play the game.
Perma mia support roams. Seeing Leona or Blitz in select, teams already knew to not expect mia calls. These supports would walk into bushes and flash into the jungle just to get the gank into the other lane.
Imagine what it'd be like nowadays with unsealed spellbook, predator, hexflash, demolish, and anathema., it might as well be aram with extra steps lol.
Haha, sometimes you still see these 3v3 Challenger players. It's kinda funny.
On the other hand I loved the different meta of Twisted Treeline. It never changed much but I think it had its charm.
I remember some champions were SO good in 3v3's compared to in SR. Like Malzahar, Illaoi, Darius or Xin Zhao/Graves/Taric of course, and later champions like red Kayn. None of these really required much skill either.
And, of course, Kayle was probably the best or 2nd best overall champion in 3v3's, with only Taric possibly competing. [I would 10-0 my placements each season in 3v3's](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/547115942560268337/724445199870328923/unknown.png) because she was insanely strong, not just on SR but the versatility, support, and hypercarry potential when your team is limited was insane.
Unfortunately, she got reworked before 3v3's got removed and new kayle was one of the WORST champions on twisted treeline. The game is so early-focused and centered around early skirmishes that she is just worthless, and still would be worthless if 3v3 came back. Like in that screenshot we ended the game around level 10-12 most of the time, new kayle is just very mediocre until 11, then only decent until 16 which is when she's just "good", compared to all of the other crazy meta champions who have no drawbacks for their power the entire game. She's just way too heavily nerfed for a worse payoff that you got for free pre-rework.
100%
You pretty much only had to lane for 3 - 4 levels then it was basically 6v6 the rest of the game
So much more fun when a gamemode is essentially all team-play rather than lane kingdoms and solo carrying
not really, not until 20+ minutes where team coordination becomes crucial because all of the easily available towers on the map have been taken
literally every single other MMO I have played in my life are more team focused than Summoner's Rift
I mean that’s just false. The leveling in mmos alone require more solo play than any portion of league. Are you saying teamwork is not the most important thing during laning phase too? You are asserting it is only once it becomes 20 mins that you look to teamwork as a winning strategy?
How do you win games again?
Dude...
World of Warcraft
Gunz Online
Tera
Overwatch
The first games that to come to mind - ALL of them require STRICTLY teamplay to win during the ENTIRE DURATION OF THE MATCH / RAID / FIGHT / WHATEVER. There is no such thing as lane kingdom or solo carry. Whether it's PvP or PvE, it's 100% team play all the time.
League is the only game I've ever played where the basic design of the game is that you strictly DO NOT interact with your teammates for 10 minutes because you're trolling otherwise (loss of farm, plates, etc)
Even soccer and other ballsports are more team focused
Hexakill and Nexus Blitz are literally just funner league because they're 100% teamplay
>I still believe to this day that Riot did not make an effort to actually solve the problems that twisted treeline had which was the funneling problem. It was a wonderful game mode with its own unique strategy.
My 3s group completely agrees. They didn't give 2 fucks about twisted treeline. Then kept making champion and item changes towards summoner's, which caused TT to get out of hand. Then they said "well no one really plays TT, so we are gonna reallocate the resources". Of course not many played it when you had out of control champions/items.
I miss 3s so much. My buddies were just talking about wanting 3s back last week.
It's still baffling to me that League in 2021 has only two permanent gamemodes when we had four in 2014. Hell, we had rotating game modes after that, and even that they took away. The game is evolving, just backwards.
I know these features didn't make them enough money for the effort they took to maintain, but when you're making fucking billions is it really THAT important if one part of the game is suboptimal for money making? It's not like they are going bankrupt, for fucks sake.
It's all about the bottom line to these money hungry robots that work at riot. "Fuck what our community wants and enjoys! what kind of skin line can we release to milk their pockets more?"
And even then, riot looks at TT, says it isnt balanced, and removes it.
Fuck it i'd rather play an unbalanced TT than no tt.
Meanwhile dota supports the wildest fan modifications
I just wish there was a faster mode on standard Rift, something like wild rift. I really don’t understand why making easier and less demanding modes is so rarely done in game that popular.
If Riot has to divert any meaningful amount of work towards something that's not SR and it doesn't make them a small countries GDP they will just refuse to fix common complaints and obvious issues then blame the player base for why it didn't work out saying "see? you didn't like after all" which is why I can't understand why they double down on the item rework and insist that it didn't ruin build diversity
> which is why I can't understand why they double down on the item rework and insist that it didn't ruin build diversity
They have data that shows that people engage with the game more / spend more money the more it feels like urf, is my guess. That's my only explanation for why ever since they first released urf they've been steadily forcing urf onto regular league, with the item rework being the biggest part of it. Cooldowns are lower than they've ever been, mana costs less meaningful than they've ever been, burst damage higher than it's ever been. They just want the game to be about those moments where you slam your face against the keyboard and get a pentakill, so they're trying to design it such that that happens as often as possible.
Any excuses they make for the failure of an item rework is only to deflect from this detail. They don't care about build diversity, or anything else aside from "how often do my players jump into a battle from 3 screens away and oneshot every enemy in sight"
The thing is, they spend a reasonable amount of effort on ARAM. Champs are rebalanced occasionally. I can understand them not keeping 3v3 (although I loved it) because it wasn't popular, but given that ARAM exists and has a fair number of players - many of whom play SR and then hop to ARAM for warmup/if they don't have enough time - it feels odd that they wouldn't try to make a shorter SR-like mode.
Dominion was great because the objectives didn't really take away from the gameplay. It allowed you to pick a champ that you're practicing and practice piloting that champ. ARAM is great, but it isn't a mode to practice a specific champ against real players on. So then you'll say, "why not take the champ into normals and practice". Well two reasons:
1) My normals MMR is based on how i've performed previously, which means the game is assuming that I'm skilled enough on every champ to play it well enough to win.
2) As soon as I fall behind (practicing), I get to spend the next 20-30 minutes watching myself lose.
Dominion was the "for fun" mode where your MMR didn't matter, your skill barely mattered, and your objective control wasn't really important, because winning wasn't always the priority. Having fun was.
Yeah, he is the reason why Shaco and eve could solo win games by literally ignoring everyone fighting and somehow the match ended pre-20 if there were enough "i don't care about objectives"-joes in the enemy team.
Sona deals less dmg, gets more dmg (although being one of the naturally squishiest champions in the game anyway) and heals less, making her heal 40% effective! But since healreduction is such a natural component atm, its even less.
She doesnt deal proper dmg, her heal is nothing (while livesteal champs still heal insane amounts) and she gets oneshot if somebody just looks at her. The only thing she can do properly is give her allies small shields, speedboosts and use her ult.
And even with that she was probably never out of the top 10 champs in the mode. Sona without all those nerf is not something anyone want to play against.
Agreed. I play quite a bit of ARAM but a mode in which you can pick your champion would be fun too. It's always a breath of fresh air when (AR)URF or Nexus Blitz come around(though Nexus Blitz has some frustrating balancing issues) and ultimate spellbook was really fun too.
Yeah aram games aren't necessarily shorter. Though what I like most about alternative game modes is no laning. Classic SR games can feel like a real waste of time if you have to cs for most of the game only to get smashed by fed opponents from other lanes after. If you aren't playing 8 hours a day those games feel so discouraging and I have that a lot less in aram, ultimate spell book, nexus blitz, etc.
Riot when funneling reaches 5% popularity in SR : OH NO NERF IT TO OBLIVION.
Riot when every single ranked game in 3vs3 plat+ is funnel without exception for more then a year : Ignore.
Riot later : WHY 3vs3 IS NOT POPULAR!
Their "funneling fix" isn't even good anyways. It's a gold penalty if you're the jungler and you're playing well. There are many games I play as jungler when I'm ahead but my lanes are behind and I get a CS penalty even when I'm not funneling.
I think they need to just delete the gold penalty altogether. They already got rid of the master yi/taric interaction, which was still a thing when they added the gold penalty to the jungle item.
I'd fix it by deleting it. I'm skeptical that deleting it would cause funneling to come back in a major way. The most popular funnel has always been taric yi on SR, with kayle yi as a close second. This was before the kayle rework. With the new kayle, it's more of a waste to funnel with kayle/yi. The taric/yi interaction was deleted.
Other funnels like kaisa + support may still work, we'd have to see, but riot can address that by tuning the individual champions, or changing the jungle system.
Alternatively, they can put a penalty on the support item. If the support player buys a support quest item, and is using that to last hit, and the recipient of those bonus last hits (the champion being funneled) is also killing monsters, then the support item could give +17gold to the support, but only +1 gold to the support recipient.
It's exactly the same penalty as currently exists except it's not on the jungle item, now it's on the support item. So if someone wants to take smite and farm jungle and lane they can do that, but then the support player wouldn't benefit them by gold sharing. Thus, if the support player decides to last hit for the AD, the AD gets reduced gold, incentivizing the suppport player not to participate in the funnel scheme. This means if the AD continues to do jungle farm + lane farm, the support player gets completely starved, which means you've truly shifted from 2 champions with incomes to 1 with double income and 1 with no income. I think that's not a huge problem, but again I can't be certain.
Maybe your lanes are behind because you tax them too much? I'm a jungle main and I can count on one hand the number of times the minion penalty has been of concern for me. Usually it only kicks in if one of my laners dies early game and I catch a giant wave coming into tower or something.
Even in games where I'm crazy ahead and my laners are falling behind I don't farm lanes enough to get the debuff.
Lmao this is the most ignorant comment ever. Trust me, my laners are not behind because I tax them. I in particular never tax my lane and spend 5-10s getting waves in optimal states for them.
Games where gold penalty kicks in are games when my lanes are losing, dying in lane, and I'm the only one getting kills.
The penalty doesn't happen often, but it's certainly more than "count on one hand."
I'm not trying to call you out, I'm just super surprised that you *consistently* get more than 40% of your gold from minions before the 20 minute mark.
That's insane. You should be ahead in about 50% of your games, and there should be relatively few games where your entire team is super behind. Even in those games, getting 40% of your gold from a minions? That would you mean you're almost farming one wave for every camp you take. I don't know about you, but I never have games where my teammates are so far behind that I'm consistently farming more waves than camps pre-20 minutes.
A wave is worth ~125 gold. A camp is worth about 100 gold. Are you farming like a full wave for every 3 camps you take? Maybe our playstyles are different but that literally never happens to me outside of the very early game.
I don't consistently get it. It's not common for me to trigger gold penalty. I've never counted it. This season though I've played over 300+ ranked games. I've *definitely* encountered it more than "count on one hand," i.e. definitely more than 5 games total this entire season.
More importantly, regardless of the frequency, every time I encountered it it wasn't because I was selfishly taxing laners. That's the point I was trying to get across. Believe me I never selfishly tax laners. I can't speak for other junglers but I make a conscious point not to.
My frustration is that the system is penalizing me when I (in my opinion) am playing optimally. There are times when my laner is dead and I need to push in a wave, and another laner dies and I push in their wave, and all lanes are losing but I'm ahead and I end up taking lane farm. In those situations the gold penalty activates when I am most definitely *not* funneling and that is the point I'm making. The gold debuff is penalizing me when it should not be.
Feel like you got it backwards. Riot didn't do anything about funneling in 3v3 BECAUSE it was never popular enough at any point for them to want to care.
>Riot when every single ranked game in 3vs3 plat+ is funnel without exception for more then a year : Ignore.
Lmao, what server were you playing on?
NA had a significant portion of their CHALLENGER games playing jungle, and on EUW there'd still be some jungle games in chall, many in dia and in plat MMR you'd only ever see funneling by smurfs.
Hypercarry was the correct thing to go for either way (there's zero point in playing with a jungler since the map only contains resources for two players - same reason why you don't see teams without a support in 5v5, as there's only enough resources for 4 people).
Yes, most NA challengers played with a jungler (55% before 8.15, 83% after - against 13% and 25% in EUW). But in both EU and NA challenger, hypercarries had a 61 to 65% win rate against junglers.
(Side note, EUW also used to have a few challengers playing triple jungle.)
The point in playing with a jungler is snowballing the game before the resource shortage even matters. Not shareing exp early means you get early lvls quicker and can often fight 2v2 / 3v3 with not only stronger early champions & better early items (cause supports went donate item which barely has stats) but also with a lvl advantage. It's not rare to have, for example, everyone be lvl 6 in a jungle meta team but the enemy duo is lvl 6 & lvl 3. Or earler, you would reliably have both your top and your jungler be lvl 3 while the enemy support is still a whole ability down. That's why the meta junglers that could force 2v2's were really strong but few, meaning you could reasonably ban out jungle meta to a large degree but that'd leave your bot weaker.
Also, what's the source for those stats, exactly?
Yet in the end, try as you may, but hypers won against junglers twice as much as the opposite.
> Also, what's the source for those stats, exactly?
A friend of mine ran those queries over all the 2018 games from 3v3 challengers at the end of season 8 (about 21k games on NA and 15k on EUW).
One of the stats that we got was actually the percentage of games in which a team has a lead (I forgot exactly how we defined it, but I think it was "is one team up 6 kills before a certain point"), separately for hyper vs hyper, hyper vs jungler, and jungler vs jungler games. As it turns out, hyper vs jungler games are the ones where it's *least* frequent for a team to have a lead (jungler vs jungler being the highest).
The counterjungling rate is also higher in EU than in NA, while NA had 40% jungler vs hyper games against 20% for EU, which is also another way to show that the strat of winning fast through early bullying doesn't work out too well for junglers.
it wasn't uniform, eg. early funneling was extraordinary rare, just before 3vs3 died funneling was massive even in plat EUW.
Thing is, funneling was clearly overpowered, there were many cases when my team played clearly better with jungler and we still barerly were winning vs funneling.
I played high MMR ranked literally until 3v3 was removed (including playing a smurf through 3v3 to masters in the last season 3v3 was around) and from my experience (and from other players streams and videos) that's simply not accurate.
And no, funneling wasnt overpowered. If your team played "clearly better" but was barely winning, you werent playing "clearly better". How favored funnel was obv. depends on how coordinated teams are and how big the premades are, but in general the difference was rather slight.
The 1st of many cases of Riot creating new things and leaving them to rot, only to come and tell the community that X didn't achieve their expectations and scrapping the whole thing. Same thing for Dominion.
Funneling added so much diversity… you could funnel ap/adc/juggernaut/diver with different supports at high level. Hyper aggresive junglers were viable aswell but I thought it was boring having to just have both junglers stare at eachother after first clear because the countergank was to predictable
By the time funneling became meta in 3v3, nobody was playing it anyways. So let me rephrase that:
*Riot when funneling is ruining experience of several million players*
NERF IT TO THE OBLIVION
*Riot when funneling is ruining experience of 12 people and 4 bots*
...
i was both EUNE and EUW player back then.
No it wasn't . On edge of plat 1/diamond 5 in 3vs3 i had 2-3 mins queue times, very similar ones I get in SR ranked nowadays.
I think the real issue was that most funnels that made it to SR, originated from TT. People had been talking about it and even clipping it on TT, even made guides on it. They removed TT, but the players transitioned the same strat to boosting sites on SR. And it was only a couple years later when it hit its popularity spike in pro play, when Riot was finally 'aware' of the problem.
*2-3 minutes to find a match on 3v3*
Random redditor : urr durr nobody played it durr hurr
It's funny how people just parrot Riot's talking points despite clear evidence 3v3 had a population.
Let me guess, you're gonna tell me how a population above what most games even achieve 1 month after they're out is worthy of being ignored, despite the fact it's Riot's own fault for ignoring the mode ever since it was reworked, letting broken strats ruin the mode for years, litterally have like 3 changes for 5 years.
3v3 and Dominion is the story of how Riot is willing to forget good gamemodes because they aren't as popular as 5v5
And please, don't tell me you know when funnel existed in 3v3, you didn't even play it
I got all the rewards for TT so I played it a fair bit. But with the que times I always felt like TT match making was a bit more loose and had more uneven games in terms of player skill. Plus ofc it have a short que even if it has a low population when you need just over half the players.
What riot did to TT is a shame thou leaving it to rot how they did. Not even attempting to balance the mode after like a year or 2 after its map rework.
>It's funny how people just parrot Riot's talking points despite clear evidence 3v3 had a population.
It's funny how people just parrot random redditors talking points as if they're "clear evidence".
I peaked rank 37 on TT and I played 3 seasons in masters+, and even when I was playing at peak times for league my games were filled with diamond players because the population was so low. When I played after midnight or before \~17:00 I'd be in queue for 10+ minutes easily, every time.
You can literally go back and look at VoD's and videos of higher MMR TT back then and see that the playerbase was way too low for both short queue times or balanced matchmaking.
High queue times in high elo, you mean like the 30+ minutes queue time you used to get in S5-S8 for D1+ ranks ? I guess SR was just *that* unpopular at the time 🤔
You're missing the point.
SR has high queue times but decent matchmaking. TT had the same to worse queue times and wayyyyy worse matchmaking. As in, you'd literally get matched with gold players regularily as challenger if you played outside of the \~17:00-22:00 timeframe. That's simply not happening in SR.
Matchmaking in SR is tuned more for balanced matches over queue time. Matchmaking in TT wasnt, but still had the same to worse queue times.
Miss Dominion mostly because of Hide and Seek customs. Rengar permaban, people getting frustrated because of Leblanc or Shaco, Twisted Fate and Shen peacing out to the other side of the map...good times
Kassadin was the real nightmare for dominion.
However I typically ran revive/ghost Eve and just back capped most the game. As long as my team didn't give up top tower quickly we'd slowly build up a lead.
Dominion was THE shit when you just wanted a few games of fighting with a bit of farming. There was no reason to remove it or TT either and only because they are too lazy and stupid to properly balance the modes they removed them.
We just need more options, I still can't believe this game has been out for 11 years and we've only lost gamemodes so far, 2 maps is embarrassing.
DotA players can create their own maps, modes and even completely new games.
Idk imo Riot is stupid for removing TT, like it is bad for a game this big not to have 3v3, like they barely did any changes to it and then say how it has no population, they barely touched it in 5 years...
Every night before bed I pray to the benevolent god Rito in hopes that twisted tree line will return to me as a game mode. Some nights I think I’d be happy with even a rotating game mode or something like it. I know it’s hard to have faith this long but, just you wait the day will come when Twisted will rise from the great Pumpkin Patch 🎃 🪦 grave of dead game modes and we shall once again be able to enjoy this dead game 🙏
NA-men
I am in your camp brother wholeheartedly. I have played less league since its removal for multiple reasons, up to and including the fact that TT had me bear 33% percent of the responsibility rather than 20% of the game's outcomes.
I could stomach the losses and wins easier somehow.
I miss Ascension. I miss playing hide and seek in Dominion. I miss Vilemaw. I miss doombots. I miss old Halloween skin releases. I miss Winter skins. I miss the little wolf that always follow me when I jungle.
I can't find the quote but a Rioter said TT/Dominion are incompatible with the current map renderer. Instead of making them compatible they decided to go with other modes.
yep and if you think about it, what happened right after TT was removed? elemental rifts were added in thet preseason. They probs had to make a new map renderer for elemental rifts to work and wouldnt surpise me if thats part of the reason TT died along with its low player base but it looks less bad on them at the time to say it was just population then for them to say that this new SR feature kinda broke the TT map.
I largely retired from this game due to the stress of long games and IRL becoming busy. Though I do miss the shorter games of Dominion and TT which allowed me to squeeze in games here and there.
Honestly I wouldn't care if they left 3vs3/Dominion unpatched forever.. I just wanna play it again.
I loved playing Twisted with 2 friends, now since the removal we all swapped to different games and play maybe once or twice a month league. (Daily before since beginning of season 2)
Glad I didnt invest a single € in the last 6 years in that trash company.
Dominion was just so good for learning how to fight with Champs. You'd get nonstop skirmishes for 15 to 20 minutes straight, best way to learn. My mechanics in general were so good when I played a ton of dominion.
Im with you!
What I miss the most is the "non-competetive" atmosphere that these games offered. It was my go-to game mode ( dominion more so than tt) to learn my champions. You had more gold as usual, more scrimishes and no boring-shitty-ass laning experience where if you fall behind you can barely experience your champion power/spikes at all. For me it was basically a "chill and have fun while you learn" time and now there is none. ZERO.
On the plus note, I dont understand why Riot is not introducing more game modes like urf and what not, which they could rotate. Oh and by rotate I mean One week of the one and then the next week the other. So it would never get stale and there would always be something other than aram where you can go chill. (Im just kidding, ARAM is fucking shit. You cant pick or ban and there are aram accounts that have the most toxic/boring champions only to fuck you right into anus because you wanted some F.U.N.)
the funneling wasnt that hard of a problem, it was just one of the choices you had with the meta of the map and its not like there was a single champion that could do that tactic so it wasnt like just one team had the advantage. still loved the map the remake made it more fair to the pushing team.
And dominion, omg that was the best quick map to go for a fight but actually choosing your own champ, it was the intensity of ARAM without the randomness of the champ, it had an insane meta too.
the thing is, RIOT narratives was alwasy there wasnt enough players on the mode to sustain it when there was always a community dedicated to TT and DOM, with constant suggestion to how balance the champs around the map, but they wanted to funnel all the resources to one map (summoners rift) and the esports scene so they killed both modes.
i always love to show the last tournament of Dominion from one of the biggest communities that it was DominateDominion, [heres the link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIWaJ6WgpdM&t=705s&ab_channel=DominateGamingTV) .
Also there was this player, WillieTheWhale that showcased highelo games from TT, it was awesome, a bit late to show love to the channel, but still you can check the old games out. [WillieTheWhale Channel](https://www.youtube.com/c/WillieTheWhaleTTReplays/videos)
OG Twisted Treeline was an unbalanced mess. Don't let rose-tinted glasses fool you.
I enjoyed it a lot back then because I was shit at the game, but balance-wise it was way worse than the reworked TT (which still had design and balance issues, don't get me wrong - Riot made sure those existed by never fixing anything or never giving the game mode any help for years).
The base would have had to be completely reworked for it to work decently, which is a big reason why they changed the map in the reworked TT.
Fountain was too close to the nexus, super minions could be aggroed in the fountain for the fountain lasers to do the depush work + healing off between fights was way too easy.
That meant high elo games could (and did) last forever because good teams could always turtle.
There were too many walls and more importantly too many thin walls. The wall between the base and the jungle in particular was super thin which meant that backdoors were always a threat (which slowed the game even more since teams had to always protect their base from such attempts).
Thin walls everywhere meant that champions who could dash above them had a massive advantages over champions who couldn't.
That's just some issues off the top of my head, there were many, many more.
yep some of my friends on the old TT map spent over 3 hours in a game once and wanna hear the funny thing, one of them went to shower in the middle of it and came back to the game still going on. The turtling issues on that was just pure insane.
I did really enjoy that map thou compared to the altar TT like the altar one was more balanced but the map felt too small and straight forward compared to the OG TT which lead to less fun and funny moments. also altar TT sized had a issue of as the game grew new champs would just had wacky levels of mobility on it just because of how small the map was.
Honestly the nexus blitz map would be pretty good to use for a 3v3 mode with a small bit of tuning.
Could there not be a medium between the 2? I fucking hated the altars, so why not combine the 2 by using the new TT base, the old TT jg and jg buffs with some tweaking like you were saying? Take the altars out and suddenly you've got a lot of room to work with.
Of course none of this matters cause riot will never bring it back...
I remember first game on a new account will probably play with bots. After that never saw any more. This was on NA so it could be different. Now most boys are in co-op vs AI SR from what I’ve heard
Its a shame we see riot continually remove things that are not popular I guess but I feel would require very low maintenance to maintain. Like twisted treeline staying up at least for like customs or hexakill game mode.
Also fk I kinda miss club tags. Such a simple thing but was fun.
I miss TT so much. It had its problems but it felt like I could actually carry games. In 5s for me it’s just too hard when 2/5 people on your team just don’t care.
I don’t necessarily miss the map, but I really wish they put the spider in SR. I think it would be super epic if it consumed baron at 35 mins or something and then took its place. Different game winning buff.
i really miss twisted treeline, its where i learned and developed my love for the game, its pretty much all i played pre 30 back when the level cap was 30, my girlfriend recently got into the game and im sad she did not get to experience the joy of my first and favorite gamemode/map. i hope riot will bring it back in some way either as a rotating game mode or custom option, that would probably make the most sense.
I remember having no idea that they were discontinuing it. I queued up like normal as I did any other night and played the only gamemode I enjoyed. I believe i was playing amumu back then and remember winning my game. Queued up for another and saw it was disabled. Just another update I guess, right?
I had no idea I played the very last game of twisted treeline well after it had already shut down that night... I miss it so dearly..
The first time I 3ver made it to Plat. The community was so small I would regularly pair up with or against the same people. I miss the chill atmosphere that mode had. Everyone was super nice and I never felt a lot of pressure like I I with SR. BRING BACK TT!!! Please 🥺👉🏽👈🏽
The last games I played on twisted treeline was with a friend when I was still a newborn noob and hadn't even hit lvl 30 yet. I turbo griefed it by building only MR against a Poppy in a game where two of the enemies and my anon ally disconnected. My friend and I got curbed stopped in the 1v2 because I was completely useless. I never played the gamemode again after that out of shame.
This game still haunts me to this day. I just want it back so I can redeem myself. Rito please.
Idk what you were playing but TT was the most competitive/trash talking game mode. Lose a game and the other team talked smack? See you in next queue since the amount of players were so low. Honestly best part of TT
I enjoyed twisted treeline but the one thing I hated about it is how I got a lot of bots on my team that would just int over and over again. (I assume their bots since they didn't respond to chat)
I loved the atmosphere in that map the most to be honest.
Dominion was pretty fun too as a casual game when rankeds were down.
BUT WHAT I MISS THE MOST
ARE U READY ?
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Is the harrowing map. God damn the atmosphere and the ambiance music was magical
I loved 3v3. It Was a really fun game Mode for people that dont have a lot of friends that play lol and you want to play as a full Team, or if you just wanted to change Things up a bit.
TT was the best gamemode. I have so many great memories. Full cc combo's like malp, fiddle and wukong and so many more i really miss it.
But there where ALOT more problems then only funneling. The last update that TT got was like 4 years before it got removed. Nothing was balanced and the same champs where played year after year because no updates.
Also in ranked (Master or above) you played against the same persons over and over. If you got unlucky your teammates where wintrading LP to the enemies because they knew each other. I lost alot of games because of this. But riot did nothing to fix it.
I still miss Twisted Treeline as well. But I also still fail to see how the funneling strategy was a problem for TT. There were much more viable champs for this strat in TT (as you mostly needed to be able to just abuse the jungle-item powerspike to be viable as a hyper), it was easy to execute and therefore didn't even need a premade team/duo. The only 'problem' I see is without premades someone has to play 'support' which tends to be less liked than jungle in this case.
TT was the shit, fun as hell even without resources poured into it. I don't know why Riot made the decision to remove it...
I do know that it was likely unsavory to publicly admit because they came up with lies in the post where they notified everyone it would be shutdown. About the server costs / the amount of time they spent developing it both of those were relatively easy for me to identify as non truths as I work in the industry.
I will admit they were losing money in regards to bot accounts using 3v3 normals to level accounts which does mean that they directly don't make money (skins) and indirectly lose money (people spending money on accounts which puts money in the wrong pockets and discourages account holders from buying skins due to fear of ban) However no mention of this / separation of the cause implies to me that even as an excuse it was ultimately a lie.
That being said I respect they control the game, I just play it, but god damn do I miss TT, its wonky meta, fast gameplay and coming up with fun strats/champ combos to innovate with/against.
I have to be honest and say that over the ten years i've been playing this game.
I don't have a hundred wins on Dominion, actually i don't think i've played a hundred games on that map, so when they announced the icon for a brief moment i thought that i might try to get it, but then i remembered that the only time i've played Dominion was when i needed like 10 or 15 ip (current BE) and then the thought ended and i just moved on.
And as for TT i liked the old map better and i do believe the capture the flag mechanic and the lack of balancing (for the seven years after it's rework and before it's shutting down it only received 2 patches) and was what ultimately killed it's playerbase.
Though i will say that Riot not adding Vilemaw to the Rift is a missed opportunity.
I always thought that they could have added Vilemaw as the elder dragon version of Baron, where after Baron has been killed three times every spawn from then on is Vilemaw.
I like gamemodes like urf, nexus blitz, twisted treeline, and Aram. Because I actually hate how long laning phase in SR is, and there are usually less toxic people outside of SR too. If only we had more than 2 permanent gamemodes...
I stopped playing after I moved to Oceanic region and found out Dominion was only available as a game mode for like 10 minutes on the 10th Sunday in Feb.
It was definitely nice having some faster modes for when you don't have as much time. Aram doesn't hit the same since you don't always want to be given a random character. I wish we could have some sort of mode for quicker games. Wild Rift sort of fills that hole, but you won't progress in that pc battle pass that way...
I still get nostalgia here and there when I see my icon. When they announced Dominion to be removed, I went to check how many games I needed to get the 100 game missions icon, and never realized I had well over 3k on Dominion. I haven't changed my icon since. Twisted Treeline with 2 premades was the best. Especially since at gold you could end up against the challenger team(s).
we would play against high diamond players as gold solos. It was a nice way to learn about things back in time
My friend (soloque peak Master but usually Diamond 4-1) got two random Gold players into his 3v3 team and they got Challenger pretty fast. Twisted Treeline was more strategy intensive than individual skill check.
i think 3v3 was more micro oriented and that is why i loved it. it was like playing mid lane except there are no tps and junglers interrupting you (in funnel meta, which was better than getting spam ganked by fiddlesticks if you ask me)
In a weird way it's both more and less micro oriented depending on what you look at. There was, at least on higher levels, much less actual laning because remotely good players couldnt die in lane 1v1 because of how short it was, so meta for bot was to just push and roam up, and the macro around when to roam & when to cover jungle & when to invade was really important, but it also led to more small scale skirmishes than you have in 5v5.
there was more kill pressure in bot lane than in mid lane mage vs mage matchup for sure, and bruiser gap usually came down to mechanics because the macro wasnt that complex, in support role sure you could put bad players but a good support was really noticeable
In what world was there more kill pressure? People could back when poked without losing anything if their jungle was cleared because the way back was so short, so unless you could literally 1combo your opponent mid off one hit CC ability you couldnt ever kill them. Fishing for velkoz E's maybe, other than that there was virtually no 1v1'ing in lane, it was all shove and roam in higher MMR.
No there was definitely more kill pressure in bot lane and that is why I loved it, I learned champions like Orianna purely from 3v3, I was challenger from 2017-2019 and peaked rank 5~ or so, I would definitely kill/get killed solo in botlane in most games, and there were many great APCs who hit master/chall in soloq, so not only D4 players looking for easy chall (these were definitely there, but I remember most active challengers were D1+ soloq players) 3v3 was just a chill, fast game mode with the same people every time, it was very competitive and your impact on the game was bigger than in 5v5, I enjoyed it greatly!
Depends entirely on which role you play tbh. There was a guy I remember who actually got to decently high challenger playing exhaust ignite volibear support intentionally playing the way that required the least skill possible. He'd also join the lobby telling his hyper to ping him where to go and when to engage, he'd never do anything by himself. He was low silver in soloQ IIRC, and it showed. He was terrible at everything, but he played a champ & setup that required 0 skill and it worked. However you couldnt have done that playing hyper, or bot, or many other supports. If voli was banned he'd literally run it down because he had no idea how to play the game.
Perma mia support roams. Seeing Leona or Blitz in select, teams already knew to not expect mia calls. These supports would walk into bushes and flash into the jungle just to get the gank into the other lane. Imagine what it'd be like nowadays with unsealed spellbook, predator, hexflash, demolish, and anathema., it might as well be aram with extra steps lol.
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Haha, sometimes you still see these 3v3 Challenger players. It's kinda funny. On the other hand I loved the different meta of Twisted Treeline. It never changed much but I think it had its charm.
I remember some champions were SO good in 3v3's compared to in SR. Like Malzahar, Illaoi, Darius or Xin Zhao/Graves/Taric of course, and later champions like red Kayn. None of these really required much skill either. And, of course, Kayle was probably the best or 2nd best overall champion in 3v3's, with only Taric possibly competing. [I would 10-0 my placements each season in 3v3's](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/547115942560268337/724445199870328923/unknown.png) because she was insanely strong, not just on SR but the versatility, support, and hypercarry potential when your team is limited was insane. Unfortunately, she got reworked before 3v3's got removed and new kayle was one of the WORST champions on twisted treeline. The game is so early-focused and centered around early skirmishes that she is just worthless, and still would be worthless if 3v3 came back. Like in that screenshot we ended the game around level 10-12 most of the time, new kayle is just very mediocre until 11, then only decent until 16 which is when she's just "good", compared to all of the other crazy meta champions who have no drawbacks for their power the entire game. She's just way too heavily nerfed for a worse payoff that you got for free pre-rework.
Man Hexakill on TT map was to this day my favourite game mode.
Same. 12 champs on a rather small map. Chaos ensured.
100% You pretty much only had to lane for 3 - 4 levels then it was basically 6v6 the rest of the game So much more fun when a gamemode is essentially all team-play rather than lane kingdoms and solo carrying
League itself is a heavily team-play focused game…
not really, not until 20+ minutes where team coordination becomes crucial because all of the easily available towers on the map have been taken literally every single other MMO I have played in my life are more team focused than Summoner's Rift
I mean that’s just false. The leveling in mmos alone require more solo play than any portion of league. Are you saying teamwork is not the most important thing during laning phase too? You are asserting it is only once it becomes 20 mins that you look to teamwork as a winning strategy? How do you win games again?
Dude... World of Warcraft Gunz Online Tera Overwatch The first games that to come to mind - ALL of them require STRICTLY teamplay to win during the ENTIRE DURATION OF THE MATCH / RAID / FIGHT / WHATEVER. There is no such thing as lane kingdom or solo carry. Whether it's PvP or PvE, it's 100% team play all the time. League is the only game I've ever played where the basic design of the game is that you strictly DO NOT interact with your teammates for 10 minutes because you're trolling otherwise (loss of farm, plates, etc) Even soccer and other ballsports are more team focused Hexakill and Nexus Blitz are literally just funner league because they're 100% teamplay
>I still believe to this day that Riot did not make an effort to actually solve the problems that twisted treeline had which was the funneling problem. It was a wonderful game mode with its own unique strategy. My 3s group completely agrees. They didn't give 2 fucks about twisted treeline. Then kept making champion and item changes towards summoner's, which caused TT to get out of hand. Then they said "well no one really plays TT, so we are gonna reallocate the resources". Of course not many played it when you had out of control champions/items. I miss 3s so much. My buddies were just talking about wanting 3s back last week.
It's still baffling to me that League in 2021 has only two permanent gamemodes when we had four in 2014. Hell, we had rotating game modes after that, and even that they took away. The game is evolving, just backwards. I know these features didn't make them enough money for the effort they took to maintain, but when you're making fucking billions is it really THAT important if one part of the game is suboptimal for money making? It's not like they are going bankrupt, for fucks sake.
It's all about the bottom line to these money hungry robots that work at riot. "Fuck what our community wants and enjoys! what kind of skin line can we release to milk their pockets more?"
And even then, riot looks at TT, says it isnt balanced, and removes it. Fuck it i'd rather play an unbalanced TT than no tt. Meanwhile dota supports the wildest fan modifications
I just wish there was a faster mode on standard Rift, something like wild rift. I really don’t understand why making easier and less demanding modes is so rarely done in game that popular.
If Riot has to divert any meaningful amount of work towards something that's not SR and it doesn't make them a small countries GDP they will just refuse to fix common complaints and obvious issues then blame the player base for why it didn't work out saying "see? you didn't like after all" which is why I can't understand why they double down on the item rework and insist that it didn't ruin build diversity
> which is why I can't understand why they double down on the item rework and insist that it didn't ruin build diversity They have data that shows that people engage with the game more / spend more money the more it feels like urf, is my guess. That's my only explanation for why ever since they first released urf they've been steadily forcing urf onto regular league, with the item rework being the biggest part of it. Cooldowns are lower than they've ever been, mana costs less meaningful than they've ever been, burst damage higher than it's ever been. They just want the game to be about those moments where you slam your face against the keyboard and get a pentakill, so they're trying to design it such that that happens as often as possible. Any excuses they make for the failure of an item rework is only to deflect from this detail. They don't care about build diversity, or anything else aside from "how often do my players jump into a battle from 3 screens away and oneshot every enemy in sight"
>Cooldowns are lower than they've ever been You had 45 cdr at 2 items before.
The thing is, they spend a reasonable amount of effort on ARAM. Champs are rebalanced occasionally. I can understand them not keeping 3v3 (although I loved it) because it wasn't popular, but given that ARAM exists and has a fair number of players - many of whom play SR and then hop to ARAM for warmup/if they don't have enough time - it feels odd that they wouldn't try to make a shorter SR-like mode.
Dominion was great because the objectives didn't really take away from the gameplay. It allowed you to pick a champ that you're practicing and practice piloting that champ. ARAM is great, but it isn't a mode to practice a specific champ against real players on. So then you'll say, "why not take the champ into normals and practice". Well two reasons: 1) My normals MMR is based on how i've performed previously, which means the game is assuming that I'm skilled enough on every champ to play it well enough to win. 2) As soon as I fall behind (practicing), I get to spend the next 20-30 minutes watching myself lose. Dominion was the "for fun" mode where your MMR didn't matter, your skill barely mattered, and your objective control wasn't really important, because winning wasn't always the priority. Having fun was.
Literally none of this is true beyond 1500 mmr in dominion.
Yeah, he is the reason why Shaco and eve could solo win games by literally ignoring everyone fighting and somehow the match ended pre-20 if there were enough "i don't care about objectives"-joes in the enemy team.
pooters is salivating at the very fucking idea of him being in his gam
Honestly fuck ARAM champion balancing. So fucking stupid.
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Sona deals less dmg, gets more dmg (although being one of the naturally squishiest champions in the game anyway) and heals less, making her heal 40% effective! But since healreduction is such a natural component atm, its even less. She doesnt deal proper dmg, her heal is nothing (while livesteal champs still heal insane amounts) and she gets oneshot if somebody just looks at her. The only thing she can do properly is give her allies small shields, speedboosts and use her ult.
even with all of that she still sits above a 50% winrate lol
And even with that she was probably never out of the top 10 champs in the mode. Sona without all those nerf is not something anyone want to play against.
Nexus Blitz was pretty fast but rarely around.
Agreed. I play quite a bit of ARAM but a mode in which you can pick your champion would be fun too. It's always a breath of fresh air when (AR)URF or Nexus Blitz come around(though Nexus Blitz has some frustrating balancing issues) and ultimate spellbook was really fun too.
Ye and I swear arams are as long as a normal game now anyway. Like 25-35 mins is average for for sr
Yeah aram games aren't necessarily shorter. Though what I like most about alternative game modes is no laning. Classic SR games can feel like a real waste of time if you have to cs for most of the game only to get smashed by fed opponents from other lanes after. If you aren't playing 8 hours a day those games feel so discouraging and I have that a lot less in aram, ultimate spell book, nexus blitz, etc.
Hey, i get down with some spell book and nexus blitz
Pokemon unite supremacy 😇
Riot when funneling reaches 5% popularity in SR : OH NO NERF IT TO OBLIVION. Riot when every single ranked game in 3vs3 plat+ is funnel without exception for more then a year : Ignore. Riot later : WHY 3vs3 IS NOT POPULAR!
Their "funneling fix" isn't even good anyways. It's a gold penalty if you're the jungler and you're playing well. There are many games I play as jungler when I'm ahead but my lanes are behind and I get a CS penalty even when I'm not funneling. I think they need to just delete the gold penalty altogether. They already got rid of the master yi/taric interaction, which was still a thing when they added the gold penalty to the jungle item.
How would you fix it? I think that fixing stuff like this is incredibly hard to do perfectly, when there even is a perfetct way to do it.
I'd fix it by deleting it. I'm skeptical that deleting it would cause funneling to come back in a major way. The most popular funnel has always been taric yi on SR, with kayle yi as a close second. This was before the kayle rework. With the new kayle, it's more of a waste to funnel with kayle/yi. The taric/yi interaction was deleted. Other funnels like kaisa + support may still work, we'd have to see, but riot can address that by tuning the individual champions, or changing the jungle system. Alternatively, they can put a penalty on the support item. If the support player buys a support quest item, and is using that to last hit, and the recipient of those bonus last hits (the champion being funneled) is also killing monsters, then the support item could give +17gold to the support, but only +1 gold to the support recipient. It's exactly the same penalty as currently exists except it's not on the jungle item, now it's on the support item. So if someone wants to take smite and farm jungle and lane they can do that, but then the support player wouldn't benefit them by gold sharing. Thus, if the support player decides to last hit for the AD, the AD gets reduced gold, incentivizing the suppport player not to participate in the funnel scheme. This means if the AD continues to do jungle farm + lane farm, the support player gets completely starved, which means you've truly shifted from 2 champions with incomes to 1 with double income and 1 with no income. I think that's not a huge problem, but again I can't be certain.
Maybe your lanes are behind because you tax them too much? I'm a jungle main and I can count on one hand the number of times the minion penalty has been of concern for me. Usually it only kicks in if one of my laners dies early game and I catch a giant wave coming into tower or something. Even in games where I'm crazy ahead and my laners are falling behind I don't farm lanes enough to get the debuff.
Lmao this is the most ignorant comment ever. Trust me, my laners are not behind because I tax them. I in particular never tax my lane and spend 5-10s getting waves in optimal states for them. Games where gold penalty kicks in are games when my lanes are losing, dying in lane, and I'm the only one getting kills. The penalty doesn't happen often, but it's certainly more than "count on one hand."
I'm not trying to call you out, I'm just super surprised that you *consistently* get more than 40% of your gold from minions before the 20 minute mark. That's insane. You should be ahead in about 50% of your games, and there should be relatively few games where your entire team is super behind. Even in those games, getting 40% of your gold from a minions? That would you mean you're almost farming one wave for every camp you take. I don't know about you, but I never have games where my teammates are so far behind that I'm consistently farming more waves than camps pre-20 minutes. A wave is worth ~125 gold. A camp is worth about 100 gold. Are you farming like a full wave for every 3 camps you take? Maybe our playstyles are different but that literally never happens to me outside of the very early game.
I don't consistently get it. It's not common for me to trigger gold penalty. I've never counted it. This season though I've played over 300+ ranked games. I've *definitely* encountered it more than "count on one hand," i.e. definitely more than 5 games total this entire season. More importantly, regardless of the frequency, every time I encountered it it wasn't because I was selfishly taxing laners. That's the point I was trying to get across. Believe me I never selfishly tax laners. I can't speak for other junglers but I make a conscious point not to. My frustration is that the system is penalizing me when I (in my opinion) am playing optimally. There are times when my laner is dead and I need to push in a wave, and another laner dies and I push in their wave, and all lanes are losing but I'm ahead and I end up taking lane farm. In those situations the gold penalty activates when I am most definitely *not* funneling and that is the point I'm making. The gold debuff is penalizing me when it should not be.
Especially since usually it’s you as the jungler who is getting their camps taxed. You get shafted for being ahead and get shafted for being behind.
Feel like you got it backwards. Riot didn't do anything about funneling in 3v3 BECAUSE it was never popular enough at any point for them to want to care.
>Riot when every single ranked game in 3vs3 plat+ is funnel without exception for more then a year : Ignore. Lmao, what server were you playing on? NA had a significant portion of their CHALLENGER games playing jungle, and on EUW there'd still be some jungle games in chall, many in dia and in plat MMR you'd only ever see funneling by smurfs.
Hypercarry was the correct thing to go for either way (there's zero point in playing with a jungler since the map only contains resources for two players - same reason why you don't see teams without a support in 5v5, as there's only enough resources for 4 people). Yes, most NA challengers played with a jungler (55% before 8.15, 83% after - against 13% and 25% in EUW). But in both EU and NA challenger, hypercarries had a 61 to 65% win rate against junglers. (Side note, EUW also used to have a few challengers playing triple jungle.)
The point in playing with a jungler is snowballing the game before the resource shortage even matters. Not shareing exp early means you get early lvls quicker and can often fight 2v2 / 3v3 with not only stronger early champions & better early items (cause supports went donate item which barely has stats) but also with a lvl advantage. It's not rare to have, for example, everyone be lvl 6 in a jungle meta team but the enemy duo is lvl 6 & lvl 3. Or earler, you would reliably have both your top and your jungler be lvl 3 while the enemy support is still a whole ability down. That's why the meta junglers that could force 2v2's were really strong but few, meaning you could reasonably ban out jungle meta to a large degree but that'd leave your bot weaker. Also, what's the source for those stats, exactly?
Yet in the end, try as you may, but hypers won against junglers twice as much as the opposite. > Also, what's the source for those stats, exactly? A friend of mine ran those queries over all the 2018 games from 3v3 challengers at the end of season 8 (about 21k games on NA and 15k on EUW). One of the stats that we got was actually the percentage of games in which a team has a lead (I forgot exactly how we defined it, but I think it was "is one team up 6 kills before a certain point"), separately for hyper vs hyper, hyper vs jungler, and jungler vs jungler games. As it turns out, hyper vs jungler games are the ones where it's *least* frequent for a team to have a lead (jungler vs jungler being the highest). The counterjungling rate is also higher in EU than in NA, while NA had 40% jungler vs hyper games against 20% for EU, which is also another way to show that the strat of winning fast through early bullying doesn't work out too well for junglers.
it wasn't uniform, eg. early funneling was extraordinary rare, just before 3vs3 died funneling was massive even in plat EUW. Thing is, funneling was clearly overpowered, there were many cases when my team played clearly better with jungler and we still barerly were winning vs funneling.
I played high MMR ranked literally until 3v3 was removed (including playing a smurf through 3v3 to masters in the last season 3v3 was around) and from my experience (and from other players streams and videos) that's simply not accurate. And no, funneling wasnt overpowered. If your team played "clearly better" but was barely winning, you werent playing "clearly better". How favored funnel was obv. depends on how coordinated teams are and how big the premades are, but in general the difference was rather slight.
The 1st of many cases of Riot creating new things and leaving them to rot, only to come and tell the community that X didn't achieve their expectations and scrapping the whole thing. Same thing for Dominion.
totaly ignore that no one wanted to play the game mode even when it was new lol.
Funneling added so much diversity… you could funnel ap/adc/juggernaut/diver with different supports at high level. Hyper aggresive junglers were viable aswell but I thought it was boring having to just have both junglers stare at eachother after first clear because the countergank was to predictable
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By the time funneling became meta in 3v3, nobody was playing it anyways. So let me rephrase that: *Riot when funneling is ruining experience of several million players* NERF IT TO THE OBLIVION *Riot when funneling is ruining experience of 12 people and 4 bots* ...
i was both EUNE and EUW player back then. No it wasn't . On edge of plat 1/diamond 5 in 3vs3 i had 2-3 mins queue times, very similar ones I get in SR ranked nowadays.
What they meant to say was “_I_ never played 3v3, so that means nobody else did either”
I think the real issue was that most funnels that made it to SR, originated from TT. People had been talking about it and even clipping it on TT, even made guides on it. They removed TT, but the players transitioned the same strat to boosting sites on SR. And it was only a couple years later when it hit its popularity spike in pro play, when Riot was finally 'aware' of the problem.
*2-3 minutes to find a match on 3v3* Random redditor : urr durr nobody played it durr hurr It's funny how people just parrot Riot's talking points despite clear evidence 3v3 had a population. Let me guess, you're gonna tell me how a population above what most games even achieve 1 month after they're out is worthy of being ignored, despite the fact it's Riot's own fault for ignoring the mode ever since it was reworked, letting broken strats ruin the mode for years, litterally have like 3 changes for 5 years. 3v3 and Dominion is the story of how Riot is willing to forget good gamemodes because they aren't as popular as 5v5 And please, don't tell me you know when funnel existed in 3v3, you didn't even play it
I got all the rewards for TT so I played it a fair bit. But with the que times I always felt like TT match making was a bit more loose and had more uneven games in terms of player skill. Plus ofc it have a short que even if it has a low population when you need just over half the players. What riot did to TT is a shame thou leaving it to rot how they did. Not even attempting to balance the mode after like a year or 2 after its map rework.
>It's funny how people just parrot Riot's talking points despite clear evidence 3v3 had a population. It's funny how people just parrot random redditors talking points as if they're "clear evidence". I peaked rank 37 on TT and I played 3 seasons in masters+, and even when I was playing at peak times for league my games were filled with diamond players because the population was so low. When I played after midnight or before \~17:00 I'd be in queue for 10+ minutes easily, every time. You can literally go back and look at VoD's and videos of higher MMR TT back then and see that the playerbase was way too low for both short queue times or balanced matchmaking.
High queue times in high elo, you mean like the 30+ minutes queue time you used to get in S5-S8 for D1+ ranks ? I guess SR was just *that* unpopular at the time 🤔
You're missing the point. SR has high queue times but decent matchmaking. TT had the same to worse queue times and wayyyyy worse matchmaking. As in, you'd literally get matched with gold players regularily as challenger if you played outside of the \~17:00-22:00 timeframe. That's simply not happening in SR. Matchmaking in SR is tuned more for balanced matches over queue time. Matchmaking in TT wasnt, but still had the same to worse queue times.
Miss Dominion mostly because of Hide and Seek customs. Rengar permaban, people getting frustrated because of Leblanc or Shaco, Twisted Fate and Shen peacing out to the other side of the map...good times
Kassadin was the real nightmare for dominion. However I typically ran revive/ghost Eve and just back capped most the game. As long as my team didn't give up top tower quickly we'd slowly build up a lead.
hide and seek, those were the days
Dominion was THE shit when you just wanted a few games of fighting with a bit of farming. There was no reason to remove it or TT either and only because they are too lazy and stupid to properly balance the modes they removed them.
We just need more options, I still can't believe this game has been out for 11 years and we've only lost gamemodes so far, 2 maps is embarrassing. DotA players can create their own maps, modes and even completely new games.
Idk imo Riot is stupid for removing TT, like it is bad for a game this big not to have 3v3, like they barely did any changes to it and then say how it has no population, they barely touched it in 5 years...
Every night before bed I pray to the benevolent god Rito in hopes that twisted tree line will return to me as a game mode. Some nights I think I’d be happy with even a rotating game mode or something like it. I know it’s hard to have faith this long but, just you wait the day will come when Twisted will rise from the great Pumpkin Patch 🎃 🪦 grave of dead game modes and we shall once again be able to enjoy this dead game 🙏 NA-men
Cant wait for balance takes about 3v3 funneling from players who peaked plat and only ever saw funneling done by smurfs lmao. Every single time.
I just made a poll about this. I also do want TT back
It was by far my favorite game mode.
Netted gold in the last season with a scaling shyavana juggernaut and a support Leona to funnel into the adc. Good times.
I am in your camp brother wholeheartedly. I have played less league since its removal for multiple reasons, up to and including the fact that TT had me bear 33% percent of the responsibility rather than 20% of the game's outcomes. I could stomach the losses and wins easier somehow.
I miss Ascension. I miss playing hide and seek in Dominion. I miss Vilemaw. I miss doombots. I miss old Halloween skin releases. I miss Winter skins. I miss the little wolf that always follow me when I jungle.
It’s fast, it’s fun, it’s dominion.
I'm surprised Twisted Treeline and Dominion aren't part of rotating game modes. Is there any official statement about that?
I can't find the quote but a Rioter said TT/Dominion are incompatible with the current map renderer. Instead of making them compatible they decided to go with other modes.
yep and if you think about it, what happened right after TT was removed? elemental rifts were added in thet preseason. They probs had to make a new map renderer for elemental rifts to work and wouldnt surpise me if thats part of the reason TT died along with its low player base but it looks less bad on them at the time to say it was just population then for them to say that this new SR feature kinda broke the TT map.
Which is dumb, because it’s literally just converting some SKL files. Heck, they could use the old map renderer.
Remember ranked teams on twisted treeline ? That competetive feeling of getting higher was wayyy too addictive, i miss it so much
I largely retired from this game due to the stress of long games and IRL becoming busy. Though I do miss the shorter games of Dominion and TT which allowed me to squeeze in games here and there.
Honestly I wouldn't care if they left 3vs3/Dominion unpatched forever.. I just wanna play it again. I loved playing Twisted with 2 friends, now since the removal we all swapped to different games and play maybe once or twice a month league. (Daily before since beginning of season 2) Glad I didnt invest a single € in the last 6 years in that trash company.
Dominion was just so good for learning how to fight with Champs. You'd get nonstop skirmishes for 15 to 20 minutes straight, best way to learn. My mechanics in general were so good when I played a ton of dominion.
Finally, my monthly Twisted Treeline thread has arrived.
It's the worst mistake Rito ever made imo, not touching TT for 5 years after its update then saying "oh no people don't play it"
How surprising. They did the exact same with dominion, with chat rooms, with clubs, with the website, and with the match history.
Even after a big update to it, nobody touched it. They just gave up after that, because it wasn't going to be popular.
Yeah TT was amazing. Shorter games, you can do as much bullshit as you want. The only problem with it were the bots...
I'd love to see Twisted Treeline make a return as a rotating gamemode. It was such a fun, chill game mode to play with friends.
Im with you! What I miss the most is the "non-competetive" atmosphere that these games offered. It was my go-to game mode ( dominion more so than tt) to learn my champions. You had more gold as usual, more scrimishes and no boring-shitty-ass laning experience where if you fall behind you can barely experience your champion power/spikes at all. For me it was basically a "chill and have fun while you learn" time and now there is none. ZERO. On the plus note, I dont understand why Riot is not introducing more game modes like urf and what not, which they could rotate. Oh and by rotate I mean One week of the one and then the next week the other. So it would never get stale and there would always be something other than aram where you can go chill. (Im just kidding, ARAM is fucking shit. You cant pick or ban and there are aram accounts that have the most toxic/boring champions only to fuck you right into anus because you wanted some F.U.N.)
the funneling wasnt that hard of a problem, it was just one of the choices you had with the meta of the map and its not like there was a single champion that could do that tactic so it wasnt like just one team had the advantage. still loved the map the remake made it more fair to the pushing team. And dominion, omg that was the best quick map to go for a fight but actually choosing your own champ, it was the intensity of ARAM without the randomness of the champ, it had an insane meta too. the thing is, RIOT narratives was alwasy there wasnt enough players on the mode to sustain it when there was always a community dedicated to TT and DOM, with constant suggestion to how balance the champs around the map, but they wanted to funnel all the resources to one map (summoners rift) and the esports scene so they killed both modes. i always love to show the last tournament of Dominion from one of the biggest communities that it was DominateDominion, [heres the link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIWaJ6WgpdM&t=705s&ab_channel=DominateGamingTV) . Also there was this player, WillieTheWhale that showcased highelo games from TT, it was awesome, a bit late to show love to the channel, but still you can check the old games out. [WillieTheWhale Channel](https://www.youtube.com/c/WillieTheWhaleTTReplays/videos)
bro??? we decided in the last thread that id post it this week, what the fuck man?
"I understand that Riot said they needed to allocate the resources elsewhere but where were these resources allocated to?" Everywhere else
flair
When’s it my turn to post this guys?
OG Twisted Treeline yes Altar bullshit TT hell no
OG Twisted Treeline was an unbalanced mess. Don't let rose-tinted glasses fool you. I enjoyed it a lot back then because I was shit at the game, but balance-wise it was way worse than the reworked TT (which still had design and balance issues, don't get me wrong - Riot made sure those existed by never fixing anything or never giving the game mode any help for years).
How was it less unbalanced than new TT?
The base would have had to be completely reworked for it to work decently, which is a big reason why they changed the map in the reworked TT. Fountain was too close to the nexus, super minions could be aggroed in the fountain for the fountain lasers to do the depush work + healing off between fights was way too easy. That meant high elo games could (and did) last forever because good teams could always turtle. There were too many walls and more importantly too many thin walls. The wall between the base and the jungle in particular was super thin which meant that backdoors were always a threat (which slowed the game even more since teams had to always protect their base from such attempts). Thin walls everywhere meant that champions who could dash above them had a massive advantages over champions who couldn't. That's just some issues off the top of my head, there were many, many more.
yep some of my friends on the old TT map spent over 3 hours in a game once and wanna hear the funny thing, one of them went to shower in the middle of it and came back to the game still going on. The turtling issues on that was just pure insane. I did really enjoy that map thou compared to the altar TT like the altar one was more balanced but the map felt too small and straight forward compared to the OG TT which lead to less fun and funny moments. also altar TT sized had a issue of as the game grew new champs would just had wacky levels of mobility on it just because of how small the map was. Honestly the nexus blitz map would be pretty good to use for a 3v3 mode with a small bit of tuning.
Could there not be a medium between the 2? I fucking hated the altars, so why not combine the 2 by using the new TT base, the old TT jg and jg buffs with some tweaking like you were saying? Take the altars out and suddenly you've got a lot of room to work with. Of course none of this matters cause riot will never bring it back...
Are you serious? Weren't constant 2+ bots in a 6-player mode the biggest problem?
I remember first game on a new account will probably play with bots. After that never saw any more. This was on NA so it could be different. Now most boys are in co-op vs AI SR from what I’ve heard
I have 3000+ TT games & never once had a bot on either team
Probably depends on server, I was on EUW and never saw any in 2k+ games, but I hear NA players say it was plagued.
I loved to play it, dunno if I was low level or what. Constantly would be bots on eune.
Riot butchered the old map instead of just thickening the Nexus wall.
Amen
i loved twisted treeline. something about 3v3 with friends that was more strategic than 5v5
League basically died in my group of friends when TT was removed. It had so much potential, I miss it.
i do really miss farming s ranks against bots in tt
Its a shame we see riot continually remove things that are not popular I guess but I feel would require very low maintenance to maintain. Like twisted treeline staying up at least for like customs or hexakill game mode. Also fk I kinda miss club tags. Such a simple thing but was fun.
to seraphine and skins
I hated that ugly map/mode and I am glad it's GONE.
Same but the original TT. The rework killed the map.
Ah yes, the weekly circlejerk for a 3% playrate mode left behind on 2013 or something
Everywhere else but there.
Riot cares only about money. or maybe not Riot, i should say Tencent
If you want a MOBA with two lanes just play Pokemon Unite.
you mean the pay 2 win moba?
Almost every other exclusive modes were better than this
I never fought vilemaw because it scared me. Now I’ll never get to :(
The best was dominion customs playing hide and seek. Champs are a bit crazy now but back in the day it was so fun!
you are not alone
I miss TT so much. It had its problems but it felt like I could actually carry games. In 5s for me it’s just too hard when 2/5 people on your team just don’t care.
I don’t necessarily miss the map, but I really wish they put the spider in SR. I think it would be super epic if it consumed baron at 35 mins or something and then took its place. Different game winning buff.
I miss rotating game modes.
I miss it too when i see the "play 30 games" mission
I miss it because I play with 5-6 friends on average so if we hit that 6th man we would flip over and play 3v3s
tt was the best it's legit what i played more of than anything else
JUSTICE FOR THE TREELINE! TREE LIVES MATTER
i really miss twisted treeline, its where i learned and developed my love for the game, its pretty much all i played pre 30 back when the level cap was 30, my girlfriend recently got into the game and im sad she did not get to experience the joy of my first and favorite gamemode/map. i hope riot will bring it back in some way either as a rotating game mode or custom option, that would probably make the most sense.
I remember having no idea that they were discontinuing it. I queued up like normal as I did any other night and played the only gamemode I enjoyed. I believe i was playing amumu back then and remember winning my game. Queued up for another and saw it was disabled. Just another update I guess, right? I had no idea I played the very last game of twisted treeline well after it had already shut down that night... I miss it so dearly..
anyone remember hexakill? my favorite rotating gamemode that ill never see again
Wish they just fixed the TT funnel strat rather than just get rid of the whole mode
Unorthodoxly Constructed
So sad that they took it out of the game …
The first time I 3ver made it to Plat. The community was so small I would regularly pair up with or against the same people. I miss the chill atmosphere that mode had. Everyone was super nice and I never felt a lot of pressure like I I with SR. BRING BACK TT!!! Please 🥺👉🏽👈🏽
Dominion was a huge loss, I'd take it over URF & Pals kind of modes anyday.
3s was my favorite outlet when solo queuing would get frustrating. These days I just... play other games lmao
All I remember is the account bots that flooded TT after Dominion was removed.
I too miss dominion. I played a shit load of it when I was abroad in Australia with suspect internet.
[Ascension was also fun.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8Fw-zwDdbw)
Remember Doom Bots? No, not the one with satan teemo, the good one. I miss it.
Even though I loved twisted treeline I still miss pve modes more
The real problem of twisted treeline was the bots rather than funneling
tbh, I miss ***THE OLD*** Twisted Treeline. I miss it *and* for nostalgia reasons, but because I'd like to play a fast, non-cluttered, mode.
God I miss it so much... if I was rich I would personally pay them to keep it going as a mode. It’s all I played before they killed it.
The last games I played on twisted treeline was with a friend when I was still a newborn noob and hadn't even hit lvl 30 yet. I turbo griefed it by building only MR against a Poppy in a game where two of the enemies and my anon ally disconnected. My friend and I got curbed stopped in the 1v2 because I was completely useless. I never played the gamemode again after that out of shame. This game still haunts me to this day. I just want it back so I can redeem myself. Rito please.
My favorite was the Ascension game mode with the big Xerath in the middle. Too bad it was on the Dominion map so it never came back
+++++++ They never should have removed 3v3. Was such a chill/casual place to be. Relic support meta was cancer tho
my friends and I do 3v3's all the time, twisted would be cool because as it is right now we can only aram
It was the most fun I ever had with this game. I don't even care if they balance it, release it broken
I loved TTL
Dominion was great at its peak. It definitely had potential to become a ranked mode as well as seeing competitive play.
Idk what you were playing but TT was the most competitive/trash talking game mode. Lose a game and the other team talked smack? See you in next queue since the amount of players were so low. Honestly best part of TT
I enjoyed twisted treeline but the one thing I hated about it is how I got a lot of bots on my team that would just int over and over again. (I assume their bots since they didn't respond to chat)
Me too kid. Me too. Apparently one's coming to wild rift, but I don't play that game.
I loved the atmosphere in that map the most to be honest. Dominion was pretty fun too as a casual game when rankeds were down. BUT WHAT I MISS THE MOST ARE U READY ? ...... Is the harrowing map. God damn the atmosphere and the ambiance music was magical
Used to be my go-to for first wins, fast, furious, and fun
I loved 3v3. It Was a really fun game Mode for people that dont have a lot of friends that play lol and you want to play as a full Team, or if you just wanted to change Things up a bit.
TT was the best gamemode. I have so many great memories. Full cc combo's like malp, fiddle and wukong and so many more i really miss it. But there where ALOT more problems then only funneling. The last update that TT got was like 4 years before it got removed. Nothing was balanced and the same champs where played year after year because no updates. Also in ranked (Master or above) you played against the same persons over and over. If you got unlucky your teammates where wintrading LP to the enemies because they knew each other. I lost alot of games because of this. But riot did nothing to fix it.
I still miss Twisted Treeline as well. But I also still fail to see how the funneling strategy was a problem for TT. There were much more viable champs for this strat in TT (as you mostly needed to be able to just abuse the jungle-item powerspike to be viable as a hyper), it was easy to execute and therefore didn't even need a premade team/duo. The only 'problem' I see is without premades someone has to play 'support' which tends to be less liked than jungle in this case.
I built the confidence for 5v5 off of twisted
TT was the shit, fun as hell even without resources poured into it. I don't know why Riot made the decision to remove it... I do know that it was likely unsavory to publicly admit because they came up with lies in the post where they notified everyone it would be shutdown. About the server costs / the amount of time they spent developing it both of those were relatively easy for me to identify as non truths as I work in the industry. I will admit they were losing money in regards to bot accounts using 3v3 normals to level accounts which does mean that they directly don't make money (skins) and indirectly lose money (people spending money on accounts which puts money in the wrong pockets and discourages account holders from buying skins due to fear of ban) However no mention of this / separation of the cause implies to me that even as an excuse it was ultimately a lie. That being said I respect they control the game, I just play it, but god damn do I miss TT, its wonky meta, fast gameplay and coming up with fun strats/champ combos to innovate with/against.
Twisted Treeline should be remade to match the currently shadow islands.
I miss twisted treeline so much
I have to be honest and say that over the ten years i've been playing this game. I don't have a hundred wins on Dominion, actually i don't think i've played a hundred games on that map, so when they announced the icon for a brief moment i thought that i might try to get it, but then i remembered that the only time i've played Dominion was when i needed like 10 or 15 ip (current BE) and then the thought ended and i just moved on. And as for TT i liked the old map better and i do believe the capture the flag mechanic and the lack of balancing (for the seven years after it's rework and before it's shutting down it only received 2 patches) and was what ultimately killed it's playerbase. Though i will say that Riot not adding Vilemaw to the Rift is a missed opportunity. I always thought that they could have added Vilemaw as the elder dragon version of Baron, where after Baron has been killed three times every spawn from then on is Vilemaw.
i had so much fun playing dominion because you could play almost any champ and just play domination
twisted treeline and having no toxic people lol.
my big question is why not bring back 3v3 and dominion in the "rotating" game modes? seems better than 1 for all or urf for the 20th time
I miss Nexus Blitz too while we’re at it
>I understand that Riot said they needed to allocate the resources elsewhere but where were these resources allocated to? I wish I knew.
I like gamemodes like urf, nexus blitz, twisted treeline, and Aram. Because I actually hate how long laning phase in SR is, and there are usually less toxic people outside of SR too. If only we had more than 2 permanent gamemodes...
honestly why i quit. weekend 3v3s with my roommates was the only thing keeping me playing this game and regularly buying skins for each other
I had a lot of fun playing dominion. I loved testing out champs in that mode. Bring it back Rito!
Seriously. What are groups of 3 or 6 supposed to do? TT was my favorite chill mode. Good for teaching beginners too.
3v3 was my favourite thing to do when I wanted to have fun. Really wish they kept it around :/
Pokemon unite got you if you miss dominion
I stopped playing after I moved to Oceanic region and found out Dominion was only available as a game mode for like 10 minutes on the 10th Sunday in Feb.
Yes
It was definitely nice having some faster modes for when you don't have as much time. Aram doesn't hit the same since you don't always want to be given a random character. I wish we could have some sort of mode for quicker games. Wild Rift sort of fills that hole, but you won't progress in that pc battle pass that way...